I hara mai ra koe i whea, i hara mai ra koe i te whakaoti nuku, i te whakaoti rangi. Ko to manawa, e kura ko toku manawa ka irihia! Whano, whano! Hara mai te toki. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e. This week, on The Hui ` MMA is one of the fastest-growing sports internationally, and Maori fighters are finding a home in the UFC. - Bantamweight champion! - Far North MMA artist Aaron Tau is looking to be the next in the Octagon. - 5% will make it to the top. - Plus, we have New Zealand First leader Winston Peters live in studio as he fights to make his way back into Parliament. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 Ka tangi te titi mo nga hua o te moana. Ka tangi te kaka mo nga hua o te whenua. Ka tangi ahau, mo nga hua o te mate. Nga mate o te wa, haere mai, haere. Huri tu mai ki a tatou. Tihewa Mauriora, and welcome back to The Hui. MMA, or mixed martial arts, is growing in popularity in Aotearoa, especially among Maori. Kai Kara France and Dan Hooker are already making a name for themselves in the UFC, and Far North fighter Aaron Tau is on the cusp of joining them. D'Angelo Martin caught up with the Northlander carving up in the cage. And a quick heads-up ` his story opens with some pretty tough fight scenes. - D'ANGELO MARTIN: It's brutal, it's bloody ` IT'S MMA. - Look! he's face down! - MIXED MARTIAL ARTS IS ONE OF THE FASTEST-GROWING SPORTS GLOBALLY... - Knockout victory! - ...AND FIGHTERS OUT OF AOTEAROA ARE SOME OF THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS. - Kia ora. My name is Aaron Tauzemup Tau. I am a professional mixed martial artist. - Aaron... Taaaaauu! - There's a new Maori in the MMA scene ` Aaron Tau is about to hit the big time. - My biggest goal is just to go up to the big leagues and show the world that I belong there ` just remind them where the greatest warriors on Earth come from. - Ohhh! - In the cage, Aaron's nickname is Tauzemup, and with seven wins and zero losses, he's living up to that name. - The name Tauzemup is, like, a New Zealand slang for... oh, lack of a better word, giving someone a hiding. - Can he get him again? - The meaning behind it is, like, you do your job so well they're flat on their back with their toes up in the sky ` so 'toes him up'. Yeah. (PENSIVE MUSIC) Home for me? I'm from the Hokianga, Te Tai Tokerau, in a place called Rahiri. # Tukituki... - Oh, yeah, Hokianga hard. That was my playground as a kid. We used to ride horses, we had our own gardens, and we hunted for our own meat. We lived off the land. - But family life was turbulent. When he turned 15, Aaron left home and moved to Brisbane. - I was playing league; I got into the Queensland Maoris' team. My mentality was, 'Win, and win at all costs,' so I was real, like... aggressive. - It was his league coach who suggested he try MMA. - I just got pushed in the right direction. I'm pretty lucky. - Aaron Tau making his way to the cage. - He applied for MMA mentorship back in Aotearoa and returned in 2016. - And he's won the Dan Hooker scholarship! - Haven't looked back since. - Professional MMA fighter Dan 'The Hangman' Hooker ran the mentorship programme. - He was very impressive on the day. He was one of, uh, three or four guys as the first mentorship winners, and, yeah, I coached him from there. - Dan has played a pivotal role in Aaron's career over the last six years. - He turned professional. Now he's seven and 0, uh, undefeated, as a professional, and on the cusp of breaking into the UFC. So I'm just proud to be a part of that. - Aaron's found a home at City Kickboxing in Tamaki Makaurau. It's the training ground for our best fighters. - The talent and knowledge at my gym is insane. What they've got down is the simple things ` the turning up, the training consistently, the eating right, the recovery ` things that you wouldn't think are as important as they are. Fighting is a lot more than just the physical body, and it's a lot more than just being violent. - This is Aaron's round. This is what he wanted. - I definitely used to use my aggression, like, a lot, to win fights, and now I only use my intellect. There's a chess game being played that most people can't even see. You gotta approach and exit exchanges with your intellect, and if you don't do it like that, that is when you get hurt. If you just jump in there and you're just swinging your hands and your legs around ` there's no honour, there's no mana in that. There's no matauranga in that. - I have to have a healthy respect for the fighter to train them to their optimal. I have to respect them enough that they` that I would form a friendship with them. I know their families. - Israel Adesanya has that thing! - Israel Adesanya's coach, Eugene Bareman, is now Aaron's coach. He sees Aaron's skills taking him to a higher level. - His abilities ` they're both physical and mental. He's a very strong-minded individual. His determination to reach his goals, to have a one-track mind and that tunnel vision ` that invariably comes with his upbringing and a lot to do with his culture. He's only a small human being, but for a small human being of that size, he's incredibly strong. - XFC Bantamweight champion! - He is, in my opinion, the best bantamweight in Australasia and New Zealand. So he's the number-one bantamweight. He's developed into a very good fighter. Yeah, a very good fighter. - Oh! Picks him up and throws him! - In the next level ` like the UFC ` a minor, minor mistake can cost you the fight; it can cost you a contract; it can cost you the last 10 years of sacrifice. So technique beats everything. Technique and consistency will make you a champion. - But Aaron knows that very few make it. - 5% will make it to the top. Maybe less. In that 5%, to make some real decent money is probably the 1%. - And how confident are you? - I'm the 1% of the 1%, brother. - And it's that confidence that people often mistake for arrogance. - In our culture in New Zealand, no one wants you to keep your head high; no one wants you to walk around like you believe in yourself. I think that they just don't see everything before those moments ` you doubting yourself, you working hard and getting beaten up, months of you fighting every day. 'Am I good enough? Can I do this?' You get broken down systematically, and you have to build yourself back up. Finding your mana and holding onto it and believing that you're going to go to battle and you're going to bring those treasures of war back with you to your people. You've never seen the build up. You've never seen the suffering, the blood, sweat and tears that got you to that moment. They think it's arrogance, but it's really just like... 'Wow. I've done it.' I doubted myself, and I found the belief, and I still stood, even though I didn't think I could stand. - Now it's gonna be a takedown. (WILD CHEERING) - If Aaron does get his shot in the UFC, he'll be the first with a mataora. - That's gonna be pretty cool ` to take our culture onto a big stage. I've been wanting to get my mataora for a few years. I grew up in the pretty old ways, and those things that my grandparents gave to me... I wanna pay them homage and pay my people homage. When I do represent, I want people to know where I'm from. - It was only in March that Aaron got his mataora done. Do you buzz out sometimes when you wake up in the morning... - (CHUCKLES) - ...and you see you got the mataora? - The funny one is I walk around my house at night-time, and I, like, walk past the mirror like, 'Whoa!' And then, 'Ey, kia ora, matua,' you know? I forget. - MEN: # Tenei te tangata # pu-huru-huru # nana i tiki mai... - Doing the haka in Dunedin ` That was definitely a highlight of my career. That was cool. - # A upane, kaupane, # whiti te ra. - Most of the world has seen the All Blacks and what they represent, and that is, like, just the edge of te ao Maori. - # Hi! # - They haven't seen the manaakitanga, the whanaungatanga. They haven't seen things at the marae, you know, the way that our culture exists. You ready? (GRUNTS) - (GIGGLES) - I do this to create a new pathway for young Maori like me, where... There was nowhere for someone like me to go. No one wanted to be` to look after me or, you know, to teach me, because I was` uh, I had this nature. Yeah, that's it. That's it! Finish the tackle! - (GIGGLES) - (GROANS) That's the idea ` I'm trying to build a whare for the children of Tamatauenga so they have somewhere to come, so they don't feel like an outcast; they feel like they have somewhere to go and, uh, use that part of them. And now we have the avenue of making money and belonging in society with this ahua. - Definitely aggressive. - Yeah! - Tau is such a physical fighter, but that was a fantastic... Tau's held by the neck. - What does your whanau think of you and your mahi? - A lot of them didn't like it, especially cos they just think of it as a violent sport. But they can see how much it means to me, they can see how hard I work at it, and they definitely respect that. - Keeping him grounded are his partner and tamariki. - They give me all of my motivation, all of my purpose. I was a bit of a lost soul before they come around. I couldn't really look after myself. Now I got three kids, and I've got a reason to wake up early. - At 29, Aaron has 4 XFC belts to his name. - The belts don't mean a lot to me. They mean a lot more to the people that I care about ` kids where I'm from, my own kids, and, uh, teach them it's possible to attain those heights ` but, uh, physically and mentally and emotionally, I don't really have a big attachment to them. I hit a goal and I look for the next. - The next goal is coming up, and the pressure is on. - Most people that do quite well get into it in their early 20s. You wanna try and hit the big leagues before you turn 30. Usually, around 35 is the end of your career. So, yeah, I've got about five, six years left to make a billion dollars and, uh, (CHUCKLES) hit the road. - (GRUNTS) - Nei naha. Tena koe, e hoa. And our thanks to Alex Bradshaw from FireFire for permission to use some of his video in D'Angelo's story. Taro kau iho ana, he uri no Manaia, he upoko kairangi torangapu. The mercurial leader of New Zealand First, after its 30th anniversary in the weekend, the Right Honourable Winston Peters, is live in studio next. Ko Te Hui tanei e wananga nei i nga take nui o te wa. It's believed he once described big-city media commentators as, quote, 'smart-alec, arrogant, quiche-eating, chardonnay-drinking, 'pinky-finger-pointing snobbery fart blossoms'. Luckily I don't eat quiche; nor do I drink chardonnay. So joining me now in studio on The Hui is the Right Honourable Winston Peters. E kara Winnie, tena koe. - Kia ora. - Thank you for your time. Hope you liked the introduction. Let's start with your campaign slogan for this year's election ` - Yes. - 'Let's take our country back.' Who are we taking the country back from? - No, it's, 'Take back our country.' - Mistake, but OK. Where are we taking the country back from, then? - (CHUCKLES) Uh, because what's happened here ` you've seen so many changes that were never mandated, never campaigned on, never part of the Labour Party or any other manifesto, but they're out there changing them secretly. The school curriculum ` for example, in science, getting rid of all the physics and biology and going into woke virtue-signalling, sexual education and all those things. No parent was told that. And I can go to area after area` Or, for example, our health system. When every Maori that's sick wants to be` health treatment now, no, they're changing the name, but they're not giving them the treatment. - OK. - And some people are waiting months and months and, sometimes, eight years. - Couple of things I wanna pick up on there. - Mm. - First of all ` 'woke'. What does 'woke' mean? - 'I woke up yesterday. I know more than you.' - Well, I've looked at the definition of it` - (CHUCKLES) No, no, no. Not me. Not me. That's them. - What...? - They're` Not me, but I see people who` all of a sudden, they've discovered something, and they think that everybody else knows nothing at all. - Well, I looked for a definition of it from the Oxford Dictionary, and it says 'aware of social and political issues... - Precisely. - '...like racism'. - Yeah. - Well, that means that people like you and Shane Jones are woke. Aren't you? - No. With the greatest respect, it doesn't mean that at all. - But you're aware of social and political issues, and you talk about racist policies. - No, but that` but this is a description that you're reading as though that is the ` how shall I say? ` the defined example of it. - Right. - No, it's not. Many of us see 'woke' as people who just discovered something yesterday, then all of a sudden they're telling some of us who have been on the road, working this battle in a mission in life to turn things around that we've always been aware of it. - Oh, OK. - For example` They suggest, for example, that I don't` we don't care about the environment, we don't care about the climate. Well, for some of us with a background that goes back hundreds and hundreds of years, that is an insult. 'Course we care about the environment. - OK, so it's a disparaging... - Yes. - ...almost perjorative word for people who think that some are too easily upset about these issues... - Yeah. - ...and new to the game. So isn't your new candidate Casey Costello one of those? Because she talks on behalf of Hobson's Pledge about exactly the same kind of thing. - Oh, no, she's setting out in authoritative form what it was all about in the Treaty of Waitangi in the 6th of February in 1840, and is somebody that had a great admiration from a very young age and studied the works and the books of the greatest Maori that's ever been to parliament. He got his law degree in two years flat, a Doctor of Literature, Master of Arts... This is way back in the` part of the last century. And he set out in 1922 exactly what the circumstances are of the Treaty of Waitangi. I believe him and not Amateur Hour Now. - OK. All right. So` But I just wanna talk about Hobson's Pledge, because that's who Casey Costello has for a long time represented and has been a spokesperson for. - Mm. - The whole Hobson's Pledge bases itself upon the commentary of one person, Colenso, 50 years after the event ` 'He iwi tahi tatou.' What does that mean for you, 'He iwi tahi tatou'? - Well, most` Well, I'm not here to speak for Hobson's Pledge other than to say I'm delighted to have Casey Costello. This is someone who is the deputy` that's number-two person in the Police` - But she's a candidate for your party. - Yes, that's right. I'm delighted she's joined our party. Cos here's somebody with a similar background like me ` Ngati Wai ` from the northern family` Very famous. You may not know this, but they're one of the best sporting families this country's ever seen. Their grandmother was a New Zealand table tennis champion; the sisters and all these people were` Fantastic name. I know the Davises. I went to school with some of these, see? That's why. Now, my point is here that she comes from the same tribe as mine as well, the same iwi, but the point is she's pointing out, as a senior former police person with a great deal of experience, that these things that are being said by the Tamiheres of this world and all these people trying to rewrite the Treaty of Waitangi, these three clauses, is just false. And I say so as well, as a lawyer, and I said so the moment I saw this happening in the 18` in 1987. The first lawyer that got up and said, 'Hang on. 'If Maori` If nobody in the British Commonwealth`' or, at the time, the British Empire and UK ` in all of those places of the UK ` 'was in partnership with the Queen back on the 5th of February 1840, 'how come the Maori were, constitutionally speaking, two days later?' And I don't want the Maori people to be sidelined on this issue. Cos I can tell you what I'm seeing here ` the worst... people who will suffer from this programme or trying to rewrite the Treaty business, or the Treaty history, is Maori. And I said ` they're not getting the housing, they're not getting the jobs, they're not getting the health, and they're not getting the education. - OK. - That's what I've been about all my life. - And you want to remove references to things like Treaty principles. What are the Treaty principles you want to remove? - Oh, I love that you've asked. Can you possibly explain what they are? Cos I've gone to universities; I've had all sort of people... - No, I'm asking you. - ...like Margaret Mutu` Cos I don't believe there are any principles in the way they say they are. - But wh`? - That's my` No` - But if you're trying to remove them and you don't know what they are... - Mr Wilcox, that's been my challenge. They are teaching principles of the Treaty of Waitangi` - OK, I'll tell you what they are, then. - No, no, no. Let me tell you. They are teaching these principles of the Treaty of Waitangi at universities, and I've been here to challenge them and I've said to them, 'Excuse me, how come the diff` other universities have got different principles?' - OK, well, I'll tell you what they are, then ` 'tiro rangatiratanga', which is Article 2 of the Treaty. So you want to remove one of the principles... - What do you think`? - ...in Article 2 of the Tre` - No, what do you think that means? - What do I think it means? You're the politician. You're the one that's put the hand up. - No, not at all. - You wanna go back into Parliament; you wanna remove the principle. - No. Your people knows what tino rangatiratanga means. You know what it means? The chief's word is gospel. Not everybody ` just the chief. And if we had then, at the time, co-governance going on back at the` 1980` uh, 19... uh, in 1840 ` if we had co-governance going on then, then which chief's word was gospel if they differed? You see? It doesn't stack up. - Well, co-governance is a means to an end. The end is tino rangatiratanga. - No, no. The ends to the means` No, the ends of this plan that these people prescribe is separatism and a separate vote. - SCOFFS: No, it's not. You know it's not. - And two separate systems. - See, this is the thing that` - No, I do know it is. That's my point. - This is the thing that I actually don't get ` I actually don't think you actually believe that. I really don't. Because` - Oh, with respect, I have put my` - No, but when you did Ka Awatea, tino rangatiratanga and rangatira` and rangatiratanga was referred to specifically in that document, was also referred to a lot by one of the key authors of Ka Awatea, by Te Rangihau. So I actually don't think you believe it. - Oh, 'scuse me. I'm the minister that brought in Ka Awatea. - No, I know. - And you know what it meant? - What? - You know what the message of Ka Awatea was? 'We can make it with unity and blood, sweat and tears.' That's the reason why we sold it. That's how we sold it. I know Ka Awatea. I was the author of it. - I know. - Right? - I know. It mentioned rangatiratanga. - Now, all of a sudden, you're telling me... - And one of the authors after the release of Te Awatea... - Yes? - ...spoke specifically about the aspiration to achieve tino rangatiratanga, which is one of the very principles that you talk about wanting to remove. - Look, I was there. You weren't. Let me tell you. No, no. (CHUCKLES) You've come to the wrong house, mate. - (CHUCKLES) - I'll tell you something here. I got the Maori Queen and every Maori chief down because that's what tino rangatiratanga means. But you got a whole lot of people asserting their tara` the tinga` uh, tino rangatiratanga, and they've got no capacity for that at all. And I am seeing it everywhere ` as they say, far too many chiefs and not enough Indians. - We're gonna talk more about policy... - (LAUGHS) - ...particularly announced over the weekend at your conference. We'll have more from Winston Peters, the leader of New Zealand First, after the break. Kua tatu mai ano ra koutou ki to tatou hui. We are back live with New Zealand First leader Winston Peters. When you started the party in '93, what were you trying to achieve? And what's changed? - Look, I'd been a member for a long time of the National Party, and I joined it for reasons that` for example, Sir James Henare told me` he joined the National Party as well, and he said the critical reason was that the Labour had a Rule 242, which was, 'The party's conscience is your conscience,' and he said, 'No one believes in freedom could go down that path,' and nor did I. - Mm. - So where` Member of the National Party, and I slogged it out on the campaigns on the way through. 1990, I did 25 marginal seats in that massive victory we had. - Mm. - And then I saw the National Party throw its manifesto in the rubbish bin and bring out the secret agenda that none of us ever even knew about. - Ah. - And then we headed down the same path, and we destroyed people's belief in democracy. That's how we got` ended up with MMP. People were sick and tired of First Past the Post and parties not keeping their promise. Now, as you know ` David Lange's my testimony for this ` he was hijacked by Roger Douglas, and he says so. They just threw their manifesto in the rubbish in as well. - OK. - And we did it again. And so I started` I was there, and... I was there with a guy that was on the Dominion Council many years ago, on the National Party with me, and we said, 'Look, if we can't turn this party around, we're gonna have to start a party,' and that's what we did. - And you did, and you were also very successful in 1996... - Mm. - ...winning all the Maori seats. Why, then, is someone who` and the party that they lead, that was so successful in the Maori seats, now looking to abolish those seats? - Because I campaigned in 1996 in all the Maori seats on the basis, 'We can turn our circumstances around.' If we believe in these things that` It's gonna be hard work, and it's gonna be a lot of tears and a lot of sacrifice, but if we focus on what Maori really need ` that's affordable housing; on ready access to health treatment as fast as possible and on education escalators to take our young as far as they wanna go if they're prepared to make the work; and the last thing ` first-world wages. That's what I sought to focus on. But here I am backing the National Party, and I had a group of Maori members with me who completely forgot what they were there for. That's how we` - But that's before the '96 one. So in '96, you had a mandate for Maoridom to act and represent their voice in parliament. Now, you lost that mandate in '99, but now you want to abolish the seats. Is this simply because the personal has become political? - No` No, because, you see, I was the person, also ` and I've been accused of it ` that did more to bring about the arrival of MMP in this country. There's been books about it, accusing me of it. But I brought it about because I wanted people to have a far better voice than... a government in which I was in only having 39% of the vote and yet govern the country. - But don't people get a better voice by having a Maori electorate seat? - No, no, I'm talking about` - Particularly about Maori issues. - I'm trying to finish my answer. - You talked about housing, education. - It's complex. It's complicated, like the movie says. CHUCKLES: Here's my point, Mr Wilcox. Look, when we brought in MMP` And the Commission said so ` 'In time, it'll prove to the Maori people that there will be no need for separate seats.' Look, I was only one of four over` since 1897` - B` - No. Since 1867, only one of four Maori to ever get a general seat. Right? Now, so we're going into this election in 1996, and the Commission had said, 'MMP will prove in time 'that there's no need for a separate franchise,' and it has. There are 28% sometimes of parliament now with Maori in them. - But the needs and issues of Maori still exist. I mean, We're talking about them now ` housing, employment. - Well, of course they exist. - So how can you get rid of the Maori seats when those issues haven't been addressed... - Because` Because the` - ...and there aren't equitable outcomes, which has led to things like the Maori`? - Well, I'll tell you why ` because the Maori seats will not deliver them, but the rest of us can. And we will. - They'll deliver the voice and the mandate for the people to be able to act on their` and represent their interests to be able to deliver them, surely. - Well, can I ask you a few things? I'll point to` You point to Maori members of parliament and you tell me what they've delivered for Maori people. Cos I know I've delivered a stack for the Maori people. Twice in my career, I've seen wages rise dramatically. - OK. Well` - Twice in my career, I've found serious increases in health budget. - I want` - Twice in my career, I looked after the aged in this world. And twice in my career, I've been out to` in terms of education, brought about the biggest university intake for Maori ever in this country's history. - OK. I wanna talk about something` - And I can keep on talking for the next day about this on your programme. Hopefully one day, you'll get me back. So you people will know that who` - I do wanna get you back. - ...those who do things and those who just talk. - Hey, I do wanna talk about one of the other things that you want to deliver. You talked about a 'gang prison' and to designate all gangs as terrorist organisations. - Yeah. - Given the amount of Maori who are in gangs, given the amount of Maori who are already in the Corrections system, why would you want to set up a location that would be a recipe for extreme violence ` and a threat, actually, to people who would end up working in Corrections ` when most of them, again, will be us? - What do you think's going on now? Excuse me. I've been to prisons for` as a young lawyer and since that time as well. What on Earth do you think's going on now? It's happening now. But a whole lot of people who are not part of the gangs are being recruited in there. And I know that every time this happens, there's a certain people in this country, a certain ethnic group, who are shamed every night on 6 o'clock news. That's the Maori people. And I want an end to it. - This sounds like it's going to be a gang Gitmo. - Well, if you` - And the US experience shows us that's a massive mistake. - Can you` Can you not get a fix on this? That's what's happening now. We don't need a` - If you put all the gangs together, it's gonna get worse. - We don't need to build a new prison. No, no no. See, you come on` you've already made up your mind. - No, no, no, I'm` - This is an interview where you're meant to find out facts. And let me tell you the fact here. - OK. - We don't need a new prison. At all. We just need to give the prison officers far more support, far greater reason for having good morale and give them better wages and have more of them. We don't need to build a new prison. But I'll tell you what the result of my policies will be. You'll see a dramatic decline in prisons the real way. Cos I've also said that, 'If you don't wanna go down that pathway, 'we're gonna find you a 40-hour-a-week job. 'We're gonna pay you properly.' 'But that's the corollary ` 'take that choice or go down the narrow path.' And I know out in the Maori world, there are mothers and fathers who want that course... - Mm. - ...rather than what we're seeing now ` perpetually getting worse and worse, with no solutions. And all these` all this sort of woke nonsense about the conditions... I'm from a Maori place. I'm from a Maori school, and I can tell you now we had everybody employed in all our neighbourhood. - I have to leave it there. You can see that by the way I'm shuffling my papers. (BOTH LAUGH) E kara, Winnie tana; tena koe. Thank you very much for your time. I do appreciate you coming on the programme. - Thank you very much. Yes. - I wish you the best for the election campaign and hope we get to talk to you again very soon. Hei te wiki... - Thank you. - ...e tu mai nei ` coming up next week on The Nui... - There's no intimacy, and it's... definitely doesn't feel... like our culture. - Funeral homes are no longer the only option after a mate. - I found there was a whole other way that we could do tupapaku, death care. - Traditional Maori ways of caring for tupapaku are being revived in the Bay of Plenty... - This process for me is really healing. Using a shroud on tupapaku is always a real honour. - It's very important to... (CHUCKLES) you know, keep your weave tight so that your tupapaku don't fall out. - ...helping ease the financial burden of funeral costs... - It can be up to $10,000 each ` you know, within a year. That's a lot of money for whanau here. - ...and empowering whanau. - We can do this ourselves. (PENSIVE MUSIC) - Looking forward to next week's show. That's us for this week. You'll find all our stories on our Facebook, Twitter and YouTube accounts or at newshub.co.nz. Until next week ` e nga iwi, kia mau ki te turanga o Taputapuatea. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023