TENA TATOU KATOA. I AM REBECCA WRIGHT. AND I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. E NGA IWI O TE MOTU. NAU MAI KI NEWSHUB NATION. TODAY ` A REVEALING INTERVIEW WITH POLICE AND NOW NEW JUSTICE MINISTER, GINNY ANDERSEN. WHICH MP IS ALSO HER SISTER'S GUARDIAN? FIND OUT ON BACKSTORY. PLUS ` DIGITAL EDITOR FINN HOGAN ON WHO IS UP AND WHO'S DOWN IN POLITICS ONLINE. CAPTIONS BY JESSIE PURU AND KATE HARRIS. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 WELL, IT'S BEEN A HELL OF A WEEK, AND A WEEK FROM HELL FOR THE GOVERNMENT. JUSTICE MINISTER KIRI ALLAN ARRESTED AND CHARGED AFTER SHE CRASHED HER MINISTERIAL CAR ON SUNDAY NIGHT. SO WE END THE WEEK WITH ANOTHER MINISTER GONE FROM CABINET BUT PRECIOUS FEW DETAILS ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. FROM THE PRIME MINISTER, WE KNOW THAT KIRI ALLAN WAS EXPERIENCING EXTREME EMOTIONAL DISTRESS. IT APPEARS THAT SOME OF HER PERSONAL STRUGGLES CAME TO A HEAD YESTERDAY AND WERE CONTRIBUTING FACTORS IN THIS INCIDENT. DRIVING ON EVAN'S BAY PARADE ON SUNDAY AROUND 9pm, KIRI ALLAN CRASHED HER MINISTERIAL CAR INTO A PARKED UTE. SHE APPEARS TO HAVE HIT THE SIDE OF THE UTE. THIS IS HER CAR IN THE AFTERMATH, IN THE CENTRE OF THE ROAD ON AN UNUSUAL ANGLE. WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHO OWNS THAT UTE, OR WHY ALLAN HIT IT WITH SUCH FORCE, BUT BY WEDNESDAY, A VIDEO HAD SURFACED. PERSON'S CAR, KIRI ALLAN'S CAR, MY CAR. FRONT OF MY CAR WAS PARKED HERE AT THIS LINE. AND MY CAR HAS BEEN MOVED FORWARD ALMOST A FULL PARKING SPOT FORWARD BY GETTING BASHED WHEN IT WAS PARKED WITH THE HANDBRAKE UP. THE PRIME MINISTER INITIALLY SAYING HE RECEIVED CONFLICTING REPORTS ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES. THE PROBLEM IS I COULDN'T SPEAK TO HER DIRECTLY LAST NIGHT, BUT THERE WAS SOME SUGGESTION THAT SHE MAY HAVE SAID THAT SHE WASN'T DRIVING. NOW, OF COURSE, I COULDN'T VERIFY ANY OF THAT BECAUSE I COULDN'T SPEAK TO HER. BUT WE NOW KNOW ALLAN WAS BEHIND THE WHEEL DISTRESSED, AND SHE HAD BEEN DRINKING. THAT EXCESS BREATH ALCOHOL LEVEL WAS ONLY AT AN INFRINGEMENT LEVEL, BUT TRAFFIC LAW EXPERTS SAY IT'S PROBABLY WHY POLICE HAVE CHARGED ALLAN WITH CARELESS DRIVING. A SECOND CHARGE, THOUGH, IS HARDER TO EXPLAIN. IT'S FOR FAILING TO FOLLOW A POLICE OFFICER, AND AROUND THAT, MYSTERY REMAINS. BY THURSDAY, STUFF IS REPORTING THAT KIRI ALLEN WAS FOUND 500m FROM THE CRASH. POLICE CONFIRM A DOG UNIT WAS USED, BUT IT'S UNDERSTOOD IT WASN'T TO FIND THE MINISTER. RATHER, IT WAS TO LINK HER BACK TO THE CAR AS EVIDENCE. BY NOW, THE PRIME MINISTER IS REFUSING TO COMMENT ANY FURTHER, BUT HE DID SAY THIS WHEN ASKED WHETHER HE WOULD HAVE KIRI ALLAN BACK INTO CABINET. SHOULD PEOPLE NOT GET SECOND CHANCES, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO MENTAL HEALTH? YES, THEY DO. BUT ALSO WHERE THERE'S OTHER ISSUES INVOLVED, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL CRIMINAL OFFENDING THAT HAS A BEARING TOO. THE CHARGES ALLAN IS FACING ARE FINES AND INFRINGEMENTS ONLY, BUT ALLAN RELEASED A STATEMENT SOON AFTER SAYING THAT SHE'S LEAVING POLITICS, APOLOGISING TO THE PRIME MINISTER FOR 'UNDERMINING HIM 'AND THE TRUST PLACED IN HER TO DO AN IMPORTANT JOB FOR NEW ZEALAND.' SAYING TOO TO HER COLLEAGUES, SUPPORTERS AND CONSTITUENTS ON THE EAST COAST THAT SHE'S FULL OF ANGER WITH HERSELF FOR LETTING THEM DOWN. THERE HAS BEEN AN OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT FOR KIRI ALLAN AND COMPASSION FOR HER PERSONALLY IN THE AFTERMATH TOO. WE'VE GOT SOMEONE WHO'S SICK, OUR GIRL. AND I JUST` THIS IS JUST HEARTBREAKING STUFF, YOU KNOW. WE TRIED` A NUMBER OF US TRIED VERY HARD WITH HER. THERE HAVE BEEN QUESTIONS TOO OVER HOW IT ALL CAME TO THIS. HERE IS HOW THE PM DESCRIBED THE CRISIS ENGULFING HIS MINISTER AND HIS GOVERNMENT. I MADE SURE THAT SHE HAD GOT SUPPORT, THAT SHE HAD BEEN SEEING A COUNSELLOR. SHE CAME TO MEET WITH ME. SHE INDICATED THAT SHE WANTED TO COME BACK TO WORK. I DID NOT COMPEL HER TO STAY AWAY FROM WORK. THERE WERE SO MANY RED FLAGS WITH THIS MINISTER FROM THE RNZ COMMENTS THROUGH TO THE ALLEGATIONS AROUND SHOUTING AND MANAGEMENT IN HER OFFICE TO EVEN THE LAST TIME YOU PUT HER ON LEAVE TO RESISTING GOING ON LEAVE AND SAYING THAT IT WASN'T FOR MENTAL HEALTH REASONS. THERE ARE A LOT OF RED FLAGS IN THIS PROCESS. SO HOW DID SHE CONTINUE TO BE BROUGHT BACK? KIRI ALLAN WAS VERY WELL SUPPORTED THROUGH ALL OF THOSE THINGS. NOW, I DO WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT THE ISSUES AROUND` CONCERNS AROUND HER MINISTERIAL CONDUCT, HER PREVIOUS ISSUES AROUND HER MINISTERIAL CONDUCT WERE UNRELATED TO HER MENTAL HEALTH, AND SHE HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT AND DOES NOT WANT THOSE TWO ISSUES TO BE CONFLATED. THEY WERE, AS I'VE INDICATED BEFORE, DEALT WITH AT THE TIME, AND THERE WERE NO NEW ISSUES THAT WERE RAISED IN TERMS OF FURTHER COMPLAINTS FOR ME TO DO ANYTHING FURTHER WITH. HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, MENTAL HEALTH IS A VERY DIFFICULT AREA, AND I THINK THE EXPERIENCES OF THE LAST FEW WEEKS CLEARLY DEMONSTRATE THAT. SO HOW DID YOU EXPECT KIRI ALLAN TO WALK BACK INTO THIS PLACE, WHICH WE ALL KNOW IS PRESSURISED AND IS BRUTAL, AND TO DEAL WITH HER MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES ALONGSIDE THE PRESSURE OF BEING A MINISTER? AS I'VE INDICATED, KIRI WAS BEING VERY WELL SUPPORTED. HOW WAS SHE BEING WELL SUPPORTED? SHE HAD SOME VERY GOOD SUPPORT FROM COLLEAGUES. WE HAD ARRANGED PROFESSIONAL SUPPORT FOR HER. AND ONE OF THE CONDITIONS OF HER COMING BACK TO WORK WAS THAT SHE WOULD CONTINUE WITH THAT PROFESSIONAL SUPPORT AND THAT SHE WOULD ALSO BE RECEIVING COACHING. SO THAT WAS A CONDITION THAT WAS PLACED ON HER COMING BACK TO WORK. BUT YOU KNOW NOW THAT IT WASN'T ENOUGH, DON'T YOU? WELL, CLEARLY, THERE WERE SOME FURTHER ISSUES. IS THERE A WAY TO MANAGE THAT MORE THOUGHTFULLY IN RETROSPECT IN TERMS OF ALLOWING HER THIS SPACE... AND TO WORK THROUGH THOSE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES WITHOUT THE PRESSURE OF THIS PLACE? AS I'VE INDICATED, KIRI WAS VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT COMING BACK TO WORK. AND ACTUALLY PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING THROUGH THESE ISSUES, IN SOME CASES, THAT'S ACTUALLY A SIGNIFICANT STEP IN THEIR RECOVERY IS TO RE-ENGAGE WITH THE POSITIVE THINGS IN THEIR LIFE. AND FOR KIRI, BEING AT WORK WAS A VERY POSITIVE PART OF HER LIFE. SHE HAD BEEN RECEIVING SUPPORT. SHE WAS IN A MUCH BETTER SPACE. HAD I BEEN ABLE TO FORESEE THIS, OF COURSE, THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE THINGS THAT WE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO. I DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL ANY MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE DOES. BUT, PRIME MINISTER, SOME NEW ZEALANDERS, VOTERS, LOOKING AT YOUR PRIME MINISTERSHIP AND AT THIS GOVERNMENT MAY SEE A CONNECTION WITH STUART NASH WHO WAS GIVEN MULTIPLE CHANCES DESPITE THERE BEING RED FLAGS ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOUR. YOU THEN HAVE MICHAEL WOOD ` MULTIPLE CHANCES DESPITE MULTIPLE RED FLAGS. NOW WE HAVE KIRI ALLAN IN A DIFFERENT BUT SIMILAR SITUATION WHERE THERE WERE RED FLAGS AND WE'VE NOW LOST HER AS A MINISTER TOO. SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOUR POLITICAL MANAGEMENT? IN EVERY ONE OF THOSE INSTANCES, I'VE MADE DECISIONS BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT WAS AVAILABLE AT THE TIME. OBVIOUSLY, IF MORE INFORMATION COMES TO LIGHT, THEN I'LL REVISE MY DECISIONS. I LIKE TO THINK THAT I MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON INFORMATION AND EVIDENCE. I MAKE THOSE DECISIONS FAIRLY, I BELIEVE. IN ALL OF THOSE INSTANCES, FURTHER THINGS HAPPENED. DO YOU NEED TO BE TOUGHER? I BELIEVE THAT I HAVE BEEN QUITE TOUGH. CLEARLY, IF I'D HAD ALL OF THE INFORMATION RELATED TO ALL OF THOSE MINISTERS IN THE FIRST INSTANCE, THE ISSUE WOULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED MUCH QUICKER THAN IT WAS. BUT I DIDN'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION. AS PRIME MINISTER, YOU CAN ONLY MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE AT THE TIME. PRIME MINISTER, MANY NEW ZEALANDERS MIGHT BE THINKING, WELL, TODAY IS THE DAY THAT YOU LOST THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. THAT'S VERY PREMATURE. THE CAMPAIGN HASN'T EVEN STARTED YET. SO CHRIS HIPKINS WAS FORCED INTO THE FIFTH RESHUFFLE OF HIS SIX MONTHS AS PRIME MINISTER AT A TIME WHEN THE GOVERNMENT IS FIGHTING TO REGAIN GROUND ON LAW AND ORDER. JUSTICE GOES TO GINNY ANDERSEN, WHO'S ALSO THE POLICE MINISTER. HERE IS OUR INTERVIEW. SO, IT'S BEEN A TOUGH WEEK FOR THE GOVERNMENT. YOU, OF COURSE, WERE BRIEFED BY THE POLICE COMMISSIONER ON SUNDAY ABOUT KIRI ALLAN'S ARREST, AND PROVIDED THAT DETAIL TO THE PRIME MINISTER. WHAT WAS THAT PHONE CALL LIKE? IT CAME AS A REAL SHOCK TO ME. I KNOW KIRI PERSONALLY. I'VE HAD REAL CONCERNS ABOUT HER WELL-BEING, SO IT CAME AS A SHOCK. MY FIRST RESPONSE WAS TO MAKE CONTACT WITH THE PRIME MINISTER AND WE WENT INTO ACTION TO MAKE SURE THAT HER WELL-BEING WAS FIRST AND FOREMOST. AND HOW DID YOU DO THAT? WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS SOMEONE THERE AT THE POLICE STATION TO COLLECT HER WHEN SHE WAS RELEASED AND TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS SUPPORT IN PLACE FOR HER. WHAT WAS THE PRIME MINISTER'S SORT OF REACTION DURING THAT CALL? HE WAS CALM BUT HE WAS` HIS NUMBER ONE CONCERN WAS HER WELL-BEING. THERE IS A LOT THAT WE JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT. HAVE YOU BEEN BRIEFED ON THE DETAIL? I'VE BEEN GIVEN THE BASIC FACTS AND THE COMMISSIONER OF POLICE DOES THAT ON A NO SURPRISES BASIS, BUT ALL OF THAT INFORMATION IS BEFORE THE COURTS AND IT'S ONLY APPROPRIATE FOR THE COURTS TO BE LOOKING AT ALL OF THAT. DO YOU THINK THERE IS A CASE, GIVEN KIRI'S STATUS AS THE FORMER JUSTICE MINISTER NOW FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO BE RELEASED PUBLICLY? THAT IS UP TO THE COURTS. BUT SHE COULD TAKE THAT DECISION HERSELF. SHE COULD DO THAT HERSELF IF SHE WISHES TO DO SO. I HADN'T SEEN HER DOING THAT TO DATE, BUT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE COMMENTARY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED DOESN'T PREDETERMINE OR INFLUENCE WHAT NEEDS TO BE DETERMINED IN THE COURT. YOU TAKE OVER THE JUSTICE PORTFOLIO AT AN IMPORTANT TIME FOR THE COUNTRY, AND FOR THE GOVERNMENT. I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU TAKE ON. IT MAY HAVE BEEN PUSHED FROM THE HEADLINES, BUT THERE IS GENUINE PUBLIC OUTRAGE THAT A MAN ON ELECTRONIC MONITORING WAS ABLE TO PROCURE A FIREARM AND GO ON A SHOOTING SPREE AT HIS WORKPLACE, KILLING TWO PEOPLE AND INJURING SEVEN OTHERS. I DON'T EVEN THINK IT'S CONTROVERSIAL TO SAY THAT SENTENCING WAS NOT ADEQUATE IN THAT CASE. THE RESPONSE, FIRST OF ALL ` I HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE VICTIMS ` TWO PEOPLE WENT TO WORK THAT DAY AND DIDN'T COME HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES, SO I THINK IT'S ONLY RIGHT FOR ME TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT LOSS OF LIFE. THEY WOULD BE WONDERING HOW THIS HAPPENED WHICH IS WHAT I'M ASKING YOU. AND THAT TRAGEDY. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE QUICK RESPONSE OF POLICE AND THE FACT THAT THEY WERE THERE WITHIN THE SHORT PERIOD OF TIME TO MAKE SURE THE CBD WAS SAFE, AND TO RESOLVE THAT. THERE WILL BE A NUMBER OF INQUIRIES GOING AHEAD OVER THE FOLLOWING WEEKS AND MONTHS, ONE OF THOSE IS BY THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS TO LOOK AT EACH STAGE OF THE MANAGEMENT OF THAT OFFENDER AND TO REALLY TAKE A GOOD LOOK TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY RED FLAGS THAT WERE MISSED. I'M TALKING AS THE JUSTICE MINISTER ABOUT THE SENTENCING IN THIS CASE AND HOW SOMEONE ON HOME DETENTION WAS ABLE TO GO ON A SHOOTING SPREE, BECAUSE IT IS THE SENTENCE OF ELECTRONIC MONITORING THAT PEOPLE ARE WONDERING ABOUT IN THIS MOMENT, MINISTER. WHEN A PERSON COMES BEFORE THE COURTS, THAT IS THE ROLE OF THE JUDGE AT THE TIME TO WEIGH UP ALL OF THE FACTS AND MAKE THAT DETERMINATION. IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR ME AS THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE TO BE MAKING JUDGEMENTS ABOUT WHAT THE COURTS DETERMINE. WHAT I WILL NOTE, THOUGH, IS THAT OVER THE LAST DECADE, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON HOME DETENTION HAS REMAINED RELATIVELY THE SAME. I WANT TO BRING YOU BACK TO THE POINT ABOUT IT'S THE JUDGE THAT MAKES THE DECISION. THE JUDGE IS FOLLOWING THE LAW THAT IS SET DOWN BY LAWMAKERS LIKE YOURSELF IN THIS COUNTRY. THE LAW WOULD SEEM TO BE INADEQUATE AT THE SENTENCING ACT 2002 WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTRONIC MONITORING. ARE YOU LOOKING AT THAT? YOU'RE RIGHT, WHAT PARLIAMENT DOES IS PARLIAMENT MAKES LAWS THAT HAVE A SENTENCE ON THEM, BUT IT'S FOR THE JUDGE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT... I'M COMING BACK TO THE QUESTION WHICH IS ` ARE YOU LOOKING AT THE SENTENCING ACT 2002 WHICH ALLOWS VIOLENT OFFENDERS LIKE MATU REID WHO WAS ON HOME DETENTION TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR ELECTRONIC MONITORING IF THEIR SENTENCE IS UNDER TWO YEARS, LIKE IN THIS CASE? NO, WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT THAT. THE CHANGES WE HAVE ANNOUNCED IN THE LAST WEEK ARE THE CHANGES THAT WE WILL BE PURSUING TOWARDS THE END OF THE ELECTION. THE PRIME MINISTER SAID YOU WERE LOOKING AT IT EARLIER THIS WEEK. I JUST WANT TO FOLLOW-UP IN TERMS OF THAT. SORRY, I'LL ANSWER THAT QUESTION. WE ARE NOT PLANNING TO CHANGE THE LAW BETWEEN NOW AND THE ELECTION. BUT THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT. AS PART OF THOSE REVIEWS, WE WANT TO HAVE ALL OF THOSE REVIEWS THAT ARE COMING FROM POLICE AND CORRECTIONS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, AND I HAVE SAID THAT WE WANT TO UNDERSTAND IF THERE ARE PARTS OF THE SYSTEM THAT DO NEED TO BE STRENGTHENED. I'M ASKING YOU SPECIFICALLY. THERE IS A DISCONNECT HERE BETWEEN WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER HAS SAID PUBLICLY AND WHAT YOU ARE TELLING ME NOW. HE SAID THAT GOVERNMENT WILL BE LOOKING CLOSELY AT THE SENTENCING ACT 2002 AND THE ELIGIBILITY OF PEOPLE FOR ELECTRONIC MONITORING, BUT YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT IS NOT THE CASE. WHAT I SAID IS THAT WE WANT ALL OF THE INFORMATION FROM THIS PARTICULAR CASE. SO ARE YOU LOOKING AT IT? SO THE QUESTION YOU ASKED ME WAS ARE YOU GOING TO PASS LEGISLATION? NO, I SAID, ARE YOU LOOKING AT IT? SORRY, I MISUNDERSTOOD THAT. YES, WE WANT TO SEE ALL THE INFORMATION FROM THOSE REVIEWS. BUT SPECIFICALLY THE SENTENCING ACT 2002. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, AS MINISTER FOR JUSTICE, WHAT COMES OUT OF THOSE REVIEWS AS A RESULT AND WHEN WE SEE WHERE THERE WERE POTENTIALLY WEAKNESSES IN THE SYSTEM, IF WE CAN STRENGTHEN THOSE. I DON'T FEEL LIKE I'M ANY CLEARER. ARE YOU LOOKING AT THE SENTENCING ACT 2002 WHICH ALLOWS PEOPLE WHO HAVE VIOLENT CONVICTIONS TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR ELECTRONIC MONITORING IF THEIR SENTENCE IS UNDER TWO YEARS? IS IT SOMETHING SPECIFIC YOU'LL LOOK AT? BECAUSE THAT IS SPECIFIC TO THIS CASE. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND POLICE IS ALL OF THE INFORMATION THAT HAS COME FROM THIS PARTICULAR ENQUIRY TO UNDERSTAND IF THAT REALLY MAKES US LOOK AT THAT SENTENCING ACT IN PARTICULAR, BUT THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE MAY WELL LOOK AT ONCE WE HAVE ALL OF THE INFORMATION. OK, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO KIWIS WHY THIS MAN WAS ON HOME DETENTION? THAT WAS A FACTOR THAT THE JUDGE WEIGHED UP AT THE TIME. I HEAR LOUD AND CLEAR THAT THERE IS REAL CONCERN OUT THERE, AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL OF THAT INFORMATION TO UNDERSTAND WHY HOME DETENTION WAS AWARDED IN THAT INSTANCE. SO, PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY WONDERING TOO, HOW MANY MORE MATU REIDS ARE OUT THERE ` VIOLENT CRIMINALS LIKE THAT WITH CONVICTIONS ON ELECTRONIC MONITORING? I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS OF THAT WITH ME RIGHT NOW. I DO KNOW THAT OVER THE LAST DECADE, WE HAVEN'T SEEN A CHANGE IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO THE COURT ARE DETERMINING TO HAVE ELECTRONIC BRACELETS. YEAH, THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION THAT I'M ASKING. CAN YOU SEE HOW CASES LIKE THESE UNDERMINE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN LAW AND ORDER? MOST DEFINITELY, AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK TO SEE WHAT WENT WRONG IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE AND WHERE WE CAN STRENGTHEN OUR SYSTEM. YOUTH CRIME IS ALSO A SPECIFIC FOCUS FOR BOTH OF YOUR PORTFOLIOS. AND WE'VE HAD A SUITE OF ANNOUNCEMENTS IN THE PAST WEEK, BUT IT OCCURS TO ME THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN ENTIRELY INEFFECTIVE ON THIS ISSUE IN THE 18 MONTHS SINCE RAM-RAIDS BURST INTO THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS. I SPOKE TO CHRIS HIPKINS WHO WAS THEN THE MINISTER OF POLICE WHEN HE HELD YOUR PORTFOLIO LAST YEAR, AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS REALLY HARD-TO-REACH GROUP OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE RECIDIVIST RAM-RAIDERS AND OFFENDERS THAT THE GOVERNMENT WAS LASER FOCUSED ON. BUT WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS GROUP NOW, AREN'T WE? IT'S A COMPLEX PROBLEM. I KNOW THAT YOUTH CRIME HAS GOT A LOT OF FACTORS GOING ON IN THAT SPACE, SO WHAT WE ANNOUNCED ABOUT 18 MONTHS AGO, THAT PROGRAMME THAT FOCUSES ON BREAKING THE CYCLE OF REOFFENDING. ALL THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT AROUND 80% OF YOUNG PEOPLE THAT GO THROUGH THAT PROGRAMME DON'T GO ON TO REOFFEND. COMPARE THAT NATIONAL'S PROGRAM OF BOOT CAMPS, AROUND 80% DO REOFFEND. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR POLICY. IF I CAN JUST GET BACK TO THE POINT. WHAT WE SAW AFTER THAT WAS INTRODUCED WAS A SMALL HARD-CORE GROUP OF RE-OFFENDERS WERE CONTINUING TO DO THOSE CRIMES, PARTICULARLY RAM-RAIDING. SO, THE REACTION THAT YOU SAW LAST WEEK WAS REALLY DRILLING DOWN TO SAY, FOR A SMALL GROUP, THAT PROGRAMME ISN'T WORKING AND WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING MORE, AND THAT'S IT. WE IDENTIFIED THAT SMALL GROUP 18 MONTHS AGO. BACK THEN, THE PRIME MINISTER NOW WAS TALKING ABOUT BOXING GYMS BEING THE ANSWER, WHICH IN HINDSIGHT JUST SEEMS RIDICULOUS. WHY ARE WE STILL TRYING TO REACH THIS 20%? THE NUMBER IS A VERY SMALL NUMBER. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 100 WHO ARE THE REPEAT` WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE SAME 100 KIDS FOR 18 MONTHS. THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE'VE INTRODUCED A RAM-RAID OFFENCE AND CHANGED THAT OFFENCE TO MAKE IT APPLICABLE TO 12- TO 13-YEAR-OLDS. WHAT I HEAR FROM FRONT-LINE POLICE OFFICERS AND DAIRY OWNERS WHEN I MEET WITH THEM IS THAT IT WAS THOSE 13- AND 12-YEAR-OLDS THAT POLICE DID NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO ANYTHING WITH AT 2 OR 3 IN THE MORNING, SO WITH THIS NEW OFFENCE, IT MEANS THAT THOSE 12- OR 13-YEAR-OLDS WILL ALSO BE ABLE TO HAVE` POLICE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEM AT THAT TIME. SO WHY HAS IT TAKEN 18 MONTHS? THIS MUST BE EXTRAORDINARILY FRUSTRATING FOR FRONT-LINE POLICE OFFICERS LIKE IT IS FOR THE PUBLIC. IT'S FRUSTRATING FOR ME AS WELL, AND WE HAVE TRIED DIFFERENT THINGS TO GET ON TOP OF THIS PROBLEM. I WOULD ARGUE THAT THEY HAVE WORKED BECAUSE 82%` WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THIS HARD-TO-REACH GROUP THAT WAS IDENTIFIED 18 MONTHS AGO. IF YOU WOULD LET ME FINISH, THAT GROUP, FOR 82% OF THOSE PEOPLE, THEY HAVE STOPPED REOFFENDING. BUT AFTER THAT, WE ARE STILL SEEING A VERY SMALL GROUP WHO ARE, SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE SAID THERE IS A LINE. WE WANT TO GET EVERYBODY AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET BACK ON TRACK AND BACK INTO SCHOOL, TRAINING OR EMPLOYMENT. BUT THERE COMES A POINT IN TIME WHERE IF THEY ARE REPEAT OFFENDERS THAT THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. THERE WILL BE MANY PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT HAS TAKEN TOO LONG TO REACH THAT POINT IN TIME, BUT THE POLICE HAVE GAINED BACK AN IMPORTANT TOOL RECENTLY, WITH THEIR ABILITY TO PURSUE FLEEING DRIVERS IN RAM-RAIDS. THAT WAS A FAILED EXPERIMENT BY POLICE NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS TO STOP FRONT-LINE POLICE FROM PURSUING CARS. THE COMMISSIONER OF POLICE MAKES THOSE OPERATIONAL DECISIONS ABOUT HOW THEY DEPLOY THEIR STAFF. THAT'S ALWAYS A WEIGHING UP OF A RANGE OF FACTORS, THAT HAS TO ENSURE PUBLIC SAFETY AS WELL AS NOT CAUSING LOSS OF LIFE. IT DIDN'T WORK THOUGH. IT WAS A FAILED EXPERIMENT. IS THAT PART OF THE REASON WHY RAM-RAIDS HAVE CONTINUED FOR SO LONG, THEY HAVE BECOME ENTRENCHED? THE POLICE HAD NO ABILITY TO PURSUE THEM FOR 18 MONTHS. THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE ONE SINGLE SILVER BULLET. IS THAT A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR? THAT'S THE QUESTION I'M ASKING YOU. I WOULD SAY THAT I'M REALLY PLEASED TO SEE THAT IN THE LAST MONTHS' RAM-RAID DATA, WE HAVE SEEN A DECLINE. THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION I'M ASKING YOU. THAT'S A TALKING POINT. I'M ASKING IF THAT IS A CONTINUING FACTOR TO THIS PROBLEM BECOMING ENTRENCHED. THERE ARE A RANGE OF FACTORS. THAT MAY BE ONE OF THEM, I AGREE, BUT THERE ARE OTHER FACTORS AS WELL. THANK YOU. GREAT. IS THE POLICE COMMISSIONER'S POLICING BY CONSENT POLICY ALSO PROVING PROBLEMATIC FOR THE GOVERNMENT? THERE IS REAL FRUSTRATION WITH POLICE OFFICERS I'VE TALKED TO ON THE FRONT LINE ABOUT THIS APPROACH BY POLICE NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS. THERE SEEMS TO BE A BIG DIVISION AROUND THIS WHOLE POLICING BY CONSENT PHILOSOPHY. POLICE OFFICERS ON THE FRONT LINE WANT TO BE EMPOWERED TO GO HARDER BUT THEY FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BEING HELD BACK BY POLICE NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS. YOU MUST HAVE COME ACROSS THAT SENTIMENT. I HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE IN THE COMMISSIONER OF POLICE. THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION I'M ASKING YOU. IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO FINISH? I'M ASKING YOU TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. I THINK THEY DO A GREAT JOB AT MAKING SURE THEY TAKE CARE OF OUR COMMUNITIES, AND I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THE EXAMPLE OF OPERATION COBALT. I'M GOING TO STOP YOU, BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED YOU. I AM ASKING ABOUT THE TENSION AND THE FRUSTRATION OF FRONT-LINE POLICE OFFICERS WITH POLICE NATIONAL HEADQUARTERS AND THIS POLICING BY CONSENT PHILOSOPHY, IS THAT A TENSION THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF? NO. YOU'VE NOT HEARD THAT FROM FRONT-LINE POLICE? I HAVE NOT HEARD THAT FROM FRONT-LINE POLICE. WELL, THAT IS SURPRISING TO ME BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT I GET TOLD OFTEN, AND THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OF FRONT-LINE POLICE. IT'S QUITE THE OPPOSITE. THEY ARE AS FRUSTRATED AS THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY SERVE BY THEIR INABILITY TO GO AFTER RAM-RAIDERS, FOR EXAMPLE. POLICING BY CONSENT REQUIRES COMMUNITY BUY-IN, BUT WHAT IF THE COMMUNITY WANTS THE POLICE TO GO HARDER? I MEET WITH POLICE EVERY SINGLE WEEK. I GO RIGHT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND I ENGAGE WITH OUR FRONT-LINE, AND THE FEEDBACK I GET IS THAT ADDITIONAL RESOURCE THAT WE'VE PUT IN TO NOT ONLY POLICE OFFICERS BUT HAVING THE TACTICAL RESPONSE MODEL THAT GIVES POLICE MORE INTELLIGENCE BETTER KIT AND CAPABILITY TO RESPOND TO HIGH-RISK OFFENDERS IN THE COMMUNITY IS RECEIVED WELL AND IS WORKING VERY WELL. IF THE COMMUNITY WANT POLICE TO GO HARDER, THAT IS AT ODDS WITH THE POLICE COMMISSIONER'S PHILOSOPHY OF POLICING BY CONSENT. I TOTALLY GET IT THAT PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED WITH THE LEVEL OF CRIME. PEOPLE HAVE HAD ENOUGH. I'VE HAD ENOUGH. IT'S NOT THE NEW ZEALAND THAT I KNOW, BUT WHAT I HEAR TIME AND TIME AGAIN IS HOW GREAT OUR POLICE SERVICE IS. I'VE NEVER MET WITH A BUSINESS OWNER OR MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WHO HAS BEEN A VICTIM OF CRIME THAT HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE LEVEL OF SERVICE AND RESPONSE FROM POLICE. THEY DO AN OUTSTANDING JOB, AND I HEAR THAT WHEREVER I GO. BUT THERE IS FRUSTRATION WITHIN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT CRIME. THIS IS GOING TO BE A HUGE ISSUE FOR YOU AT THE ELECTION. I 100% GET THAT AND I AM FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE THAT OUR POLICE ARE RESOURCED, THAT WE BREAK THE CYCLE OF REOFFENDING WHENEVER WE CAN AND WE DELIVER THE MESSAGE THAT IF SOMEONE CROSSES A LINE, THAT THEY ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, AND THEY SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF COMMITTING THAT CRIME. HOW DO YOU THINK THE PUBLIC LOOKS UPON YOUR RECORD SO FAR? WE NEED TO KEEP WORKING HARD, AND WE'VE GOT WORK TO DO, AND I'M WELL AWARE OF THAT. THAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU THINK THE PUBLIC HAVE TOTAL CONFIDENCE. I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP WORKING HARDER TO GIVE NEW ZEALAND CONFIDENCE THAT WE WILL GET ON TOP OF THIS PROBLEM. IT'S BEEN INADEQUATE. WE'VE GOT WORK TO DO. I WON'T SAY IT'S INADEQUATE BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN FAR MORE INVESTED IN NEW ZEALAND FRONT-LINE POLICE THAN WE'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE. BUT THAT'S NOT TRANSLATING INTO PUBLIC CONFIDENCE. WE NEED TO KEEP WORKING TO INCREASE THEIR PUBLIC CONFIDENCE AND I'M FOCUSED ON DOING THAT. NEW JUSTICE MINISTER GINNY ANDERSEN THERE. SHE HAS GOT A BIG JOB, AND IT JUST GOT A LOT TOUGHER WITH THAT JUSTICE PORTFOLIO. LOTS OF TOUGH QUESTIONS, AND LOTS MORE WORK TO DO, AS SHE SAYS. E WHAI AKE NEI WE'LL BE BACK WITH OUR POLITICAL PANEL GARETH HUGHES, ANDREA VANCE AND JANET WILSON TO TRY AND MAKE SENSE OF A TUMULTUOUS WEEK AT PARLIAMENT. PLUS, DIGITAL EDITOR FINN HOGAN DELVES INTO THE POLITICAL POWER RATINGS ONLINE. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. WELL, ELECTION SEASON IS GETTING REAL, AND THE BATTLE LINES ARE BEING DRAWN ONLINE. JOINING ME NOW IS OUR DIGITAL EDITOR FINN HOGAN TO TELL US WHO'S UP, WHO'S DOWN AND WHO'S SPLASHING THE CASH IN THE ONLINE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. FINN, WELCOME. GOOD MORNING, SIMON. STARTING OUT AS WE USUALLY DO, IF WE LOOK AT THE TOP 10, KIND OF REFLECTS SOME OF THOSE POLITICAL STUMBLES THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TAKEN AND SOME OF THE GAINS THAT HAVE BEEN GAINED BY THE OPPOSITION. IN THOSE TOP THREE SPOTS WE'VE GOT LUXON, SEYMOUR AND PETERS IN THAT ORDER. YOU'VE GOT ALL TO GO ALL THE WAY TO SEVENTH BEFORE CHRIS HIPKINS MAKES AN APPEARANCE. AS WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT, HE'S NOT THE MOST ONLINE GUY COMPARED TO HIS PREDECESSOR, BUT STILL THAT TOP 10 IS NOT LOOKING GREAT FOR LABOUR. AND IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARDERN, IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING. IF YOU PUT HER BACK INTO THOSE RANKINGS SHE GOES STRAIGHT TO THE TOP SPOT AGAIN. EVEN THOUGH SHE IS POSTING BIRTHDAY PICS AND WORLD CUP PICS. IT SHOWS THAT SHE IS STILL THIS REALLY POTENT FORCE ONLINE, EVEN WHEN SHE IS NOT BEING POLITICAL. WHICH MUST BE A BIT OF SALT IN THE WOUND FOR HIPKINS, SEEING YOUR OLD BOSS LIVING THEIR BEST LIFE WHILE YOU'RE REALLY IN THE DOLDRUMS. AND GETTING ALL THE RATINGS ONLINE. IS THE OPPOSITION SUCCESS TRANSLATING TO THE PARTY PAGES? YES, IF WE LOOK AT THE PARTY PAGE PERFORMANCE, NATIONAL IS FAR AHEAD ON EVERY METRIC THAT WE MEASURE, WHETHER IT'S INTERACTIONS, VIDEO VIEWS, GROWTH. PARTICULARLY ON THOSE VIDEO VIEWS. IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE, THEY'VE GOT A MILLION VIDEO VIEWS IN THE PAST TWO MONTHS COMPARED TO ABOUT 50K FOR LABOUR WHICH IS PRETTY MASSIVE. A LOT OF THAT IS COMING FROM THEM HAMMERING LAW AND ORDER MESSAGING, PARTICULARLY WITH SOME RECENT ADS AROUND THE MONGREL MOB WHICH PERFORMED EXTREMELY WELL. NOW, THAT PERFORMED ABOUT 23 TIMES BETTER THAN THE AVERAGE POST, BUT IT'S NOT EXACTLY REINVENTING THE WHEEL, HAMMERING LAW AND ORDER FOR NATIONAL, BUT IT IS BRINGING IN RESULTS. RIGHT, STANDARD FAIR FOR THE NATS. IS THAT REACH BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, OR IS IT ORGANIC? THAT'S INTERESTING. THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY BEING SPLASHED AROUND BUT IT IS PRIMARILY BY GOVERNMENT. LABOUR HAS SPENT $300,000 IN THE PAST 90 DAYS, WHICH IS A BIG SPEND. NATIONAL HAS SPENT AROUND 120,000. AROUND HALF THAT FOR ACT, COMING IN AT 60,000, AND THEN THE GREENS HAVE GOT A PALTRY 2K SPEND. THAT'S AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY AND IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS ON THE BACK FOOT IN SOME SENSE TRYING TO SPEND THEIR WAY OUT OF THE PROBLEM WHEREAS NATIONAL CAN LEAN BACK AND KEEP THEIR POWDER DRY, AND NOT OPEN THAT WAR CHEST. AND THAT'S ANOTHER POINT TO MAKE ` NATIONAL IS BRINGING IN THOSE MASSIVE MONEY DONATIONS WEEK IN AND WEEK OUT. AND SO RIGHT NOW, LOOKING AT THOSE NUMBERS, THE CAN GO, 'LET'S JUST KEEP THAT POWDER DRY AND NOT SPEND IT, 'AND SAVE OUR MONEY ONLINE.' IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG CAMPAIGN. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OTHER BIG STORY OF THE WEEK, THE BIG TECH STORY IN SOCIAL MEDIA ` TWITTER, OR X? UNCLE ELON, WHAT IS HE UP TO NOW? ELON MUSK'S LATEST MOVE IS TO REBRAND TWITTER AS X, THE EVERYTHING APP. THIS HAS BEEN A LONG-STANDING DREAM OF HIS, AND THE EVERYTHING APP BASICALLY MEANS COMBINING ALL OF YOUR ONLINE APPS TOGETHER. SOMEWHERE YOU CAN HAVE DISCUSSIONS ON SOCIAL MEDIA BUT CRUCIALLY ALSO HAVE YOUR FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS. IT'S LOOSELY BASED ON A APP CALLED WECHAT FROM CHINA. AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING HE'S BEEN WANTING TO DO FOR YEARS. BACK WHEN HE WAS CEO OF PAYPAL, IT WAS ORIGINALLY X.COM. SO, IT'S A 20-YEAR DREAM FOR MUSK. LAST TIME HE TRIED TO DO THIS, HE WAS OUSTED AS CEO OF PAYPAL. I'M NOT HOLDING MY BREATH IT IS GOING TO WORK OUT. IS IT DESPERATION? ISN'T TWITTER DYING, AND WE'RE ALL ON THREADS? I THINK THIS IS AN ELEMENT OF DESPERATION HERE BECAUSE HE WAS ON THE BACK FOOT WHEN THREADS LAUNCHED, ZUCKERBERG'S TWITTER KILLER. IT SURGED TO 100 MILLION USERS FASTER THAN ANY OTHER APP, EVEN BEATING OUT CHAT GPT. SINCE THEN, IT'S HAD A BIT OF A DIAL BACK. IT'S GONE DOWN TO ABOUT 13 MILLION ACTIVE USERS, WHICH IS STILL IMPRESSIVE, BUT PART OF THAT FALLBACK COMES FROM THE CEO OF INSTAGRAM AND THREADS ADAM MOSSERI CAME OUT ON THE PLATFORM AND SAID LOOK, POLITICS AND NEWS, THAT IS NOT SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO PRIORITISE ON THREADS. AND FOR ME, THAT SHOWS A FUNDAMENTAL MISUNDERSTANDING OF WHAT PEOPLE LIKE ABOUT APPS LIKE THREADS AND TWITTER. THEY WANT IT TO BE THAT PLACE WHERE EVERYONE IS HAVING CONVERSATIONS, WHERE NEWS IS BREAKING, WHERE PEOPLE ARE HAVING ARGUMENTS. EVEN IF THEY SAY THEY HATE THE CONTROVERSY, THAT'S THE SECRET SAUCE. SO WHAT DOES X MEAN FOR OUR ELECTION AND OUR POLITICS? TWITTER IS THE MOST POLITICAL OF ALL THE SOCIAL MEDIA SPACES. IT'S WHERE ALL OF THE PUNDITS AND POLITICIANS AND JOURNALISTS ARE MAKING AND BREAKING NEWS, HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS WHICH LEAD TO NEWS. HOW MANY TIMES DO WE INCLUDE A TWEET FROM A POLITICIAN IN NEWS COVERAGE WHETHER IT IS HERE OR INTERNATIONALLY? FOR BETTER OR WORSE, MUSK WANTS TO TAKE THAT EVEN FURTHER. HE WANTS X TO BE THIS PLACE WHERE YOU'RE HAVING POLITICAL KNIFE FIGHTS IN THE MUD. HE'S TAKING TWEET LENGTH LIMITS, ADDING LONG-FORM VIDEO, HE'S ALLOWING PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS TO LAUNCH ON THE PLATFORM. HE IS ALLOWING NEWS SHOWS ON THE PLATFORM, IF YOU WANT TO CALL TUCKER CARLSON'S SHOW A NEWS SHOW. SO WHATEVER HAPPENS AS WE MOVE FORWARD, IF THERE IS A NO SERIOUS CONTENDER TO TAKE AWAY THEIR POLITICAL SOCIAL SPACE, MORE POLITICS IS GOING TO TAKE PLACE ON X. SO, STRAP IN, SIMON. ALL RIGHT, WE WILL. DIGITAL EDITOR FINN HOGAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH. A MURI AKE NEI ` WE'RE JOINED BY OUR PANEL GARETH HUGHES, ANDREA VANCE AND JANET WILSON. PLUS, IF YOU BOUGHT IT AND IT BREAKS, SHOULD YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BUY PARTS FOR IT AND FIX IT? FINN HOGAN ON YOUR LEGAL RIGHT TO REPAIR. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. A LOT TO DISSECT THIS WEEK, SO TO DO THAT I'M JOINED NOW BY OUR PANEL ` FORMER GREEN MP GARETH HUGHES, NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR FOR STUFF'S THE POST AND SUNDAYS ANDREA VANCE, AND FORMER NATIONAL PARTY CHIEF PRESS SECRETARY, AND CURRENT MEMBER, JANET WILSON. OK, WELCOME TO YOU ALL. LET'S DIVE IN. IT HAS BEEN A BIG WEEK OUT THERE IN THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE. ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES HAS BEEN BALANCING THE TENSION THIS WEEK BETWEEN A CABINET MINISTER BEING ARRESTED, AND TRANSPARENCY AROUND THAT WITH THE OVERLAY OF MENTAL HEALTH. HOW DO YOU THINK WE HAVE LANDED ON THAT, JANET? I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A LITTLE OBFUSCATION. HIPKINS HAS BEEN CLEVER IN EXPLAINING IT AWAY BY SAYING HE GOT CONFLICTING REPORTS. WHETHER THOSE WERE CONFLICTING REPORTS IS NEITHER HERE NOR THERE. WE CLEARLY HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD THE WHOLE STORY. AND EMPATHY AND SYMPATHY FOR KIRI HAS ALLOWED THAT, AND I'M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING THAT IS A BAD THING. THE REPORTING AROUND MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES IS VERY DIFFICULT, REALLY DIFFICULT, AND I THINK PEOPLE TEND TO GIVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE'S LIVES IMPLODE, IN SUCH A PUBLIC MATTER, I THINK PEOPLE ARE PREPARED TO GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. I THINK THE COURT WILL REVEAL ALL EVENTUALLY. DO THINK ONE SHOULD SHUT THE OTHER DOWN, ANDREA? NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. I THINK I PROBABLY AGREE ABOUT OBFUSCATION. THAT IS TERRIBLE FOR THE GOVERNMENT, BECAUSE THE DETAILS HAVE BLED OUT OVER THE COURSE OF THE WEEK, DRIP FED, DEATH BY A THOUSAND CUTS. THE BALANCE HAS BEEN TRICKY, OBVIOUSLY IT IS A PERSON IN THE MIDDLE OF A CRISIS. AT THE SAME TIME, THE JUSTICE MINISTER WAS ARRESTED. THERE ARE HUGE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED AT THE SCENE, AND I THINK YOU CAN DO BOTH. I THINK WE CAN HAVE A NATIONAL CONVERSATION, ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED, WHAT LED TO THIS AND THE DECISIONS THAT LED TO IT, BUT ALSO BALANCE THAT WITH SOME COMPASSION FOR HER AS WELL. GARETH, YOU ARE UNIQUELY PLACED TO COMMENT ON THIS, BEING A FORMER MP. HOW DO YOU THINK THESE ISSUES HAVE BEEN HANDLED? IT IS A BALANCE, BECAUSE SHE WAS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY, ON THE EXECUTIVE AS A MINISTER. GENUINE PUBLIC INTEREST AND IMPORTANCE, BUT IT IS A DEEPLY TRAGIC PERSONAL STORY. AND WE ARE UNFORTUNATELY, DUE TO THE VIRTUES OF THE ROLE, SEEING SUCH A TRAGIC EVENT FOR SOMEONE IN THEIR LIFE AND THEIR FAMILY PAY OUT. THERE ARE HUGE PRESSURES. WE'VE SEEN TODD MULLER DESCRIBE PARLIAMENT AS A TOXIC, BRUTAL PLACE. IT REALLY IS, AND I WONDER IF SHE FELT PRESSURED TO COME BACK TOO SOON. I AM AWARE OF MPS WHO HAVE COME BACK FROM SURGERY, AND LAY IN PAIN ON THEIR COUCHES IN THEIR OFFICE BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE DOING THE RIGHT THING. IT IS A TOXIC, DIFFICULT PLACE, AND I THINK IT'S TRAGIC THAT WE NEED` WE AREN'T IMPROVING THE MENTAL HEALTH OF POLITICIANS, STAFF, AND EVERYONE ASSOCIATED WITH IT. OUR DEMOCRACY IS WORSE FOR IT. THE STAKES ARE SO HIGH IN PARLIAMENT FOR MINISTERS AND POLITICIANS, AND THERE IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF PRESSURE. PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE THE NATURE OF PARLIAMENT, BUT IS THAT POSSIBLE, JANET, GIVEN THE POWER THESE PEOPLE HAVE? YEAH, AND ALSO THAT IT IS ADVERSARIAL BY NATURE. IT'S ADVERSARIAL NATURE. AND ALSO, THE FACT THAT POWER IS THE ULTIMATE APHRODISIAC. TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, IT IS A VERY HEADY THING. PARLIAMENT IS A PLACE WHERE YOUR OWN VALUES ARE VERY MUCH ON SHOW ALL DAY, EVERY DAY, AND WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU STAND FOR IS REALLY IMPORTANT. BUT IT CAN... PEOPLE'S VALUES GET LOST IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. YEAH, THERE'S SPILLOVER. THERE IS NO REASON WHY A DEMOCRACY SHOULD CHEW PEOPLE UP AND SPIT THEM OUT. IT COMES DOWN TO CULTURE AND THE INSTITUTION. WE IMPORTED A WESTMINSTER MODEL THAT LANDED IN THE MIDDLE OF WELLINGTON. IT IS NOT FIT FOR A MORE CONSTRUCTIVE, CONSENSUS-BUILDING APPROACH TO POLITICS. WE SHOULD BE SUPPORTING THE PARTIES TO DO A BETTER JOB. SADLY IT IS GETTING WORSE WITH MORE CLICKBAIT JOURNALISM, TOXIC SOCIAL MEDIA ENVIRONMENT, AND GENUINE THREATS OF VIOLENCE TOWARDS POLITICIANS NOW. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. ANDREA? AT THE SAME TIME, I DO THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE AN ELEMENT OF PRESSURE THERE. THESE PEOPLE HOLD A LOT OF POWER, AND MAKE CONSEQUENTIAL DECISIONS ABOUT THINGS THAT AFFECT PEOPLE'S EVERYDAY LIVES, SO THEY SHOULDN'T BE WRAPPED IN COTTON WOOL. IT SHOULD BE A HARD PLACE TO WORK. ALSO, THAT SAID, PEOPLE IN ALL WALKS OF LIFE HAVE CRISES, AND ALSO WORK ON HIGH-PRESSURE ENVIRONMENTS, LIKE DOCTORS OR NURSES FOR EXAMPLE, SO THERE IS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT POLITICIANS AND THEIR LIFESTYLE, BUT IT IS A PLACE WHERE WE SHOULD HAVE VERY, VERY HIGH EXPECTATIONS AND STANDARDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT US. I WANT TO TOUCH ON THE POLITICAL REACTION, BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN TRICKY AS WELL. IT HAS NOT GONE ALL THAT WELL THIS WEEK. JANET, WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE DEBATE? I THINK THE DEBATE HAS BEEN POOR, ACTUALLY. I THINK THEY HAVE LOST` LABOUR HAS LOST TO THE TALKING STICK ON THIS. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU BECOME UNDER CRISIS, THAT YOU LOSE YOUR WAY. IT IS LIKE A FOG WHEN YOU GET INTO THAT KIND OF CRISIS. PEOPLE DON'T KNOW... WHERE TO GO, AND WHAT THEY STAND FOR, AND PART OF THAT IS IT IS NOT ONLY A PHYSICAL ASSAULT, BUT A MENTAL ASSAULT ON MEMBERS OF A PARTY AS WELL. I THINK WE COULD TALK ABOUT THIS ALL DAY BECAUSE IT IS FASCINATING, BUT I WANT TO MOVE ON TO GINNY ANDERSEN. THERE HAS BEEN ANOTHER RESHUFFLE. GINNY TAKES OVER A TOUGH PORTFOLIO AT A TOUGH TIME. ANDREA, WHAT DID YOU THINK OF HER PERFORMANCE? I THOUGHT YOU GAVE HER A REALLY HARD GO. I DID. YOU DID VERY WELL, AND SHE EQUALLY HELD UP. GIVEN SHE HAS ONLY HAD THE JUSTICE PORTFOLIO FOR A MATTER OF DAYS, AND HASN'T HAD THE POLICE PORTFOLIO FOR THAT LONG, I THOUGHT SHE GAVE AS GOOD AS SHE GOT. I THINK THE PUBLIC ARE OBVIOUSLY TIRED OF HEARING SOME OF THE RESPONSES. THE PROBLEM FOR LABOUR IS THAT THEY AREN'T TRUSTED ON LAW AND ORDER. GOING BACK TO WHAT JANET JUST SAID, THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF PANIC. I THINK NOW WHEN IT COMES TO THIS ISSUE AND OTHERS, WE SAW THAT PLAY OUT LAST WEEK WITH THE ROLLING MAW OF CONSECUTIVE LAW AND ORDER ANNOUNCEMENTS. AND I WAS WATCHING THAT, THINKING, 'WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?' THE PUBLIC DON'T` THEY'RE NOT LISTENING TO YOU HAVE TO SAY. THEY DON'T TRUST YOU ON LAW AND ORDER. YOU DON'T HAVE EQUITY HERE. TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU DO. THIS IS INTERESTING, BECAUSE GINNY ANDERSEN TAKES OVER THAT PORTFOLIO, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TIME, AND SHE DOESN'T HAVE TIME, NOR DOES THE GOVERNMENT, TO ALLOW ANOTHER RESET. SHE HAS TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING INTO THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. IT IS A TOUGH GIG. SHE COMES IN AFTER A SUCCESSION OF MINISTERS AND A MIXED NARRATIVE ON CRIME FOR THE GOVERNMENT. THEY'RE NOW TRYING TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME BECAUSE OF THE REAL COMMUNITY CONCERN, BUT THEY ARE NOT TALKING TOUGH ON THE CAUSES OF CRIME. WE'RE SEEING MIXED MESSAGES. KELVIN DAVIS RECENTLY TALKED ABOUT REDUCING THE PRISON POPULATION, YET PUTTING IN PLACE MEASURES TO INCREASE SENTENCING AND AGGREGATING FACTORS. IT'S A NARRATIVE THEY HAVEN'T SHAPED THEMSELVES, AND THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOING TO SHAPE IT OVER THE NEXT THREE MONTHS. UNFORTUNATELY, THE OPPOSITION HAS ALL THE RUNNING ON IT. AS A PROGRESSIVE, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THEM REALLY EMBRACE THAT TOUGH ON THE CAUSES OF CRIME. IT IS ALL SYSTEMIC, COMES OUT OF ORANGA TAMARIKI. IT COMES OUT OF THE ABUSE IN STATE CARE, AND WILL NOT BE FIXED BY SIMPLISTIC SOLUTIONS LIKE BOOT CAMPS. WHAT WE DO KNOW` I THINK WHAT YOU PRESSED HER ON IN THE INTERVIEW ABOUT CHANGES TO THE SENTENCING ACT, IT IS IMPORTANT WE WHEN DO MAKE MAJOR CHANGES TO LAW AND ORDER LEGISLATION, IT DOESN'T WORK. THE BAIL LAWS PREVIOUSLY THAT WERE CHANGED IN RESPONSE TO A PUBLIC CAMPAIGN, THAT PROVED NOT TO WORK, AND TO BE PROBLEMATIC FOR THE GOVERNMENT. JANET, WHAT ABOUT THE TWO HATS, POLICE AND JUSTICE? I HAVE A REAL ISSUE WITH THAT. I THINK IT IS CHURCH AND STATE. I THINK THE TWO PORTFOLIOS ARE IN SOME WAYS AT ODDS WITH EACH OTHER... PHILOSOPHICALLY, AND ALSO... IN A JURISDICTION KIND OF MANNER, THEY ARE AT ODDS WITH EACH OTHER. SO FOR HER TO WEAR THOSE TWO HATS IS HIGHLY UNUSUAL IN A GOVERNMENT. IT IS ONLY CLEARLY WITH LESS THAN THREE MONTHS TO AN ELECTION, IT IS A TEMPORARY MEASURE OF SOME KIND, BUT EVEN SO, I WOULD NOT HAVE CHOSEN HER, NO MATTER HOW COMPETENT SHE IS. SHE DOES HAVE TO WEAR THOSE HATS FOR A SHORT TIME, BUT IT IS AN IMPORTANT TIME FOR THEM. YEAH. THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON OUR PANEL, GARETH HUGHES, ANDREA VANCE, AND JANET WILSON. E WHAI AKE NEI AS IF ALL OF THAT WASN'T ENOUGH FOR A POLITICAL WEEK, ANTHONY ALBANESE WAS ALSO VISITING AND GOT A FRONT-ROW SEAT. IN THE HOUSE IS COMING UP. PLUS, WHICH MP IS ALSO HER SISTER'S GUARDIAN? FIND OUT ON BACKSTORY. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. HAVE YOU EVER BOUGHT SOMETHING THAT BROKE ONLY TO DISCOVER THAT SPARE PARTS ARE NOT AVAILABLE TO BUY? TWO YEARS AGO ON THIS PROGRAMME, ENVIRONMENT MINISTER DAVID PARKER SAID HE WAS HOPING TO FIX THAT PURSUING A 'RIGHT TO REPAIR LAW' THAT WOULD REDUCE PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE. IT'S SOMETHING AUSTRALIA, THE EU AND U.S. ARE ALL PURSUING. BUT POLITICAL INTEREST HERE, THOUGH, SEEMS TO HAVE COOLED. BUT FINN HOGAN IS HOT ON THE TRAIL. HERE IS HIS REPORT. WHEN AUCKLAND LOCALS TOM AND MANDY GREER BOUGHT A BUGGY FOR THEIR BABY, PRETTY QUICKLY, THE WHEELS CAME OFF. WE LOST A TINY PLASTIC PART, PROBABLY ABOUT $0.03 WORTH OF PLASTIC. WE WENT TO MOUNTAIN BUGGY. IF WE WANTED TO REPAIR IT, THEY COULD ONLY SELL US A WHOLE WHEEL ASSEMBLY, WHICH IS ABOUT $70. ACROSS THE COUNTRY, PRACTICAL LOCALS ARE STEPPING UP TO DO WHAT COMPANIES CAN'T OR WON'T AT GATHERINGS LIKE THIS ONE IN AUCKLAND'S TE ATATU SOUTH, STAFFED WITH VOLUNTEERS LIKE ERIC, WHO HAS THE MAGIC TOUCH WITH BROKEN POWER TOOLS. YOUNG LADY, IF YOU COULD JUST SQUEEZE THAT TRIGGER FOR ME. JUST SQUEEZE AND HOLD IT. GIVE IT A SHOT. (SAW WHIRRS) THAT'S GOOD. BUT JUST THE FIRST WIN OF MANY. I WAS GIVEN THIS GALAXY A WHILE AGO BY A DEAR FRIEND OF MINE WHO SINCE PASSED AWAY. SO IT'S GOT, LIKE, SENTIMENTAL AS WELL AS PRACTICAL PURPOSES. I RANG A COUPLE OF PEOPLE AND EMAILED A COUPLE OF PEOPLE AND NOBODY WAS PREPARED TO EVEN LOOK AT IT FOR LESS THAN $200. BUT AFTER BEING SHOWN HOW TO REPLACE A PART... I'M NOT OUT OF POCKET AT ALL BECAUSE MY KAUMATUA BROUGHT ME HERE AND IT'S $34. WHAT COULD BE BETTER THAN THAT? WE HAVE DONE SOME ODD 1300 REPAIRS IN THE LAST TWO YEARS AND SAVED SOMEWHAT LIKE $50,000 IN TERMS OF REPAIR COSTS TO PEOPLE. WHILE REPAIR CAFES ARE KEEPING DEVICES FROM LANDFILL, FOR EVERY PHONE OR LAPTOP THAT GETS FIXED, A THOUSAND END UP IN THE BIN. ELECTRONIC WASTE IN NEW ZEALAND IS AN UNREGULATED MARKET. THE VOLUME THAT'S KIND OF BANDIED AROUND IS BETWEEN 80,000 AND 100,000 TONS ANNUALLY IN NEW ZEALAND. HERE AT COMPUTER RECYCLING NEW ZEALAND, SOME OF THAT WASTE IS BROKEN DOWN INTO VALUABLE COMPONENTS. WE'RE PROBABLY ON TRACK THIS YEAR TO PROCESS ABOUT 2500 TONS. SO, ABOUT 2.5 MILLION KILOS OF ELECTRONIC WASTE. BUT IT'S JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET. IT'S HARD TO REALLY GET A TRUE HANDLE ON IT, BUT YOU WOULD SAY THAT WE WOULD BE MANAGING... 3%. MEANING THAT 97% OF THE WASTE WE PRODUCE ENDS UP IN LANDFILL. AND WE CAN'T KEEP CONTINUING LIKE THAT. PAUL SMITH OF CONSUMER NZ IS PUSHING FOR A LAW CHANGE THAT WOULD BRING BACK REPAIRABILITY. SO, RIGHT TO REPAIR IS REALLY THE IDEA THAT IF YOU OWN A PRODUCT, WHATEVER IT IS, AND IT BREAKS, THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT YOU DO WITH IT. COMPANIES COULD BE FORCED TO PROVIDE REPLACEMENT PARTS AND LET YOU CHOOSE WHO REPAIRS THEM. CURRENTLY UNDER THE CONSUMER GUARANTEES ACT, IF A CUSTOMER IS INFORMED AT THE POINT OF PURCHASE THAT REPAIRS OR SPARE PARTS ARE NOT AVAILABLE, THE COMPANY IS NOT OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE THEM. HOWEVER, INFORMED, IN THIS CASE, MIGHT JUST MEAN A TINY NOTE TUCKED SOMEWHERE ON YOUR PRODUCT'S WEBSITE. IT'S LOOPHOLES LIKE THIS THAT RIGHT TO REPAIR COULD CLOSE. INTERNATIONALLY, OUR ALLIES ARE ALREADY TAKING ACTION. AUSTRALIA, THE EUROPEAN UNION AND THE UNITED STATES ARE ALL INVESTIGATING OR IMPLEMENTING RIGHT TO REPAIR RULES. AND WE DON'T WANT TO END UP BEING THAT COUNTRY THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY LEGISLATION IN PLACE. AND WE'RE SEEN AS THE EASY TARGET TO SAY, 'OH, WE CAN SELL 'ANYTHING WE WANT IN NEW ZEALAND BECAUSE WE CAN'T SELL IT OVERSEAS.' BACK IN 2021, ENVIRONMENT MINISTER DAVID PARKER TOLD NEWSHUB NATION THAT A RIGHT TO REPAIR WAS STRONGLY ON HIS RADAR. I'M PERSONALLY FRUSTRATED. I HAD A FRIDGE THAT BROKE DOWN RECENTLY. COULDN'T GET A PART, CHUCKED OUT WHAT WAS A PERFECTLY GOOD FRIDGE. IT WAS SUCH A WASTE. SO THOSE RULES ARE DEFINITELY COMING IN ACCORDING TO YOU? WELL, I'M DEFINITELY INTERESTED IN THEM, BUT THEY'RE CABINET DECISIONS, NOT MINE. BUT URGENCY SEEMS TO HAVE COOLED. HE'S DELEGATED RESPONSIBILITY TO JUNIOR MINISTER ASSOCIATE ENVIRONMENT MINISTER RACHEL BROOKING. NEWSHUB NATION ASKED HER WHEN THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION WOULD BE FINISHED. SHE SAID A BILL IS PROPOSED TO BE INTRODUCED IN THE NEXT PARLIAMENTARY TERM. MEANWHILE, ADVOCATES SAY WE'RE MISSING A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY. I THINK WE'VE GOT THAT ADVANTAGE THAT WE'RE SMALL, AND WE'VE GOT A VERY SMALL, CONFINED MARKET. WE CAN DO IT, AND WE CAN MAKE IT COUNTRY-WIDE, AND WE CAN REALLY TAKE THE LEAD ON THIS. SO WHILE GOVERNMENT DRAGS ITS HEELS, KIWIS LIKE TOM AND MANDY ARE DOING THEIR BIT, SETTING UP A TOOL LENDING LIBRARY FOR LOCALS WHILE GETTING THEIR OWN BUGGY FIXED. SO IN THE END, WE FOUND SOME RANDOM PERSON OUT WEST THAT SPECIALISES IN HOARDING MOUNTAIN BUGGY AND OTHER BRANDS' BROKEN THINGS, AND THEY SUPPLIED US THAT PART FOR $5, AND IT'S FANTASTIC. WE'RE LENDING OUT, LIKE, 15,000 TOOLS IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS AND WE HAVE NO ADVERTISING. IT'S JUST WORD OF MOUTH. SO, THAT'S 15,000 TOOLS THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T NEED TO BUY. A GRASSROOTS IMPACT WAITING FOR GOVERNMENT TO PUT ITS OWN TOOLS TO WORK. I LIKE THE LOOK OF THAT, SIMON, ALL THOSE TOOLS OUT THERE. OH, YOU'D GO FOR A FOSSICK? YEAH, GONNA GO AND HAVE A LITTLE FOSSICK AROUND. FINN HOGAN THERE. KIA PAKU WHAKATA TATAU. STAY WITH US, WE'RE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. WELCOME BACK TO BACKSTORY, WHERE WE TAKE YOU OUT TO THE REGIONS, AND INSIDE THE HOMES, WHANAU AND PHOTO ALBUMS OF OUR MPs. TODAY, THE MP WHO IS HER SISTER'S GUARDIAN AND CARER AND WHO DISCOVERED HER WHAKAPAPA WHILE SEARCHING FOR HER LONG LOST FAMILY. HERE'S LABOUR MP JO LUXTON WITH HER BACKSTORY. I WAS BORN IN ROTORUA. DAD WORKED ON A FARM IN NGAKURU. I ALWAYS HAD PET LAMBS. CINDY AND SWINGER. WE MOVED AROUND A BIT. WE WENT TO WHAKATANE, PAEROA, AND THEN FINALLY, GISBORNE. AND THAT'S WHERE I DID ALL MY SCHOOLING, IN GISBORNE. WENT TO ST MARY'S AND CAMPION COLLEGE AND LYTTON,. AND I LIVED THERE TILL ABOUT 18, AND BY THAT STAGE MUM AND DAD HAD SEPARATED, AND HE'D MOVED AWAY, BACK TO ROTORUA, AND MUM HAD MEET SOMEONE NEW, AND THEY MOVED TO GREYMOUTH. SO I WAS ON MY OWN. QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO, I WAS A SINGLE PARENT, AND I WAS ON THE DPB, WHICH IS NOW THE SOLE PARENT BENEFIT AND WORKED AT THE LOCAL PLAY CENTRE. IT WAS REALLY TOUGH, A TOUGH TIME FINANCIALLY, YOU KNOW. I HAD TO USE THE FOOD BANK AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I REMEMBER GOING IN TO WORK AND INCOME WHEN MY FIRST MARRIAGE ENDED AND ASKING FOR SOME SUPPORT AND HELP, AND THE WOMAN THERE AT THE TIME JUST PRETTY MUCH JUST LAUGHED AT ME AND SAID, 'WE'RE NOT A BANK,' YOU KNOW? 'WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM US?' AND I'LL NEVER, EVER FORGET THAT. OH, I JUST FELT SO HUMILIATED. IT'S MADE ME WHO I AM BECAUSE I REFLECT ON HOW THAT FELT AND HOW I WAS, AND OTHER THINGS IN MY LIFE, YOU KNOW, HAVING A DOWN SYNDROME SISTER, THINGS LIKE THAT, MAKES ME SEE THINGS A BIT MORE BROADLY. I DON'T JUDGE TO CONCLUSIONS ABOUT SOMEONE BECAUSE WHO THE HELL AM I TO JUDGE? YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON FOR THEM IN THEIR LIFE, AND I JUST THINK IT MAKES ME A MORE EMPATHETIC, ACTUALLY, AND A STRONGER PERSON. I'VE GOT THREE CHILDREN OF MY OWN AND TWO STEPCHILDREN, WE'RE A BLENDED FAMILY, AND THEY'RE ALL QUITE SIMILAR AGES. WHEN MY HUSBAND AND I MET, THE KIDS WERE SORT OF AROUND ABOUT THAT 12-YEARS-OLD AGE AND ACTUALLY, THEY ALL GOT ON LIKE A HOUSE ON FIRE. WE'RE PRETTY LUCKY, I GUESS. SOME BLENDED FAMILIES HAVE A BIT OF TROUBLE. WE GOT MARRIED IN 2010. WE TOOK OFF TO AUSTRALIA, WE ELOPED. HE'S ALWAYS BEEN THAT CALM ONE, AND I'VE BEEN THE IMPULSIVE, IMPATIENT AND WANT THINGS DONE YESTERDAY. AND WE COMPLEMENT EACH OTHER IN THAT WAY, AND ACTUALLY, HE'S PULLED ME RIGHT BACK. NOWADAYS I'M A FAR MORE, I GUESS, RELAXED, LESS IMPATIENT ABOUT THINGS, AND IT JUST WORKS. AND HE'S HUGELY SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT I DO IN MY JOB. THIS IS TERESA, MY BABY BLISTER. YEAH. (LAUGHS) TERESA'S A MIDDLE SISTER. THERE'S ME, YOU AND... MELISSA. MELISSA. SO TERESA'S THE MIDDLE ONE. THE TROUBLEMAKER, EH? YEAH. (LAUGHS) TERESA LIKES TO CUT PHOTOS OF ME OUT OF THE PAPER. I'VE GOT A` YEAH, SHE'S GOT A BIG BOX, LIKE YOU'RE A STALKER, EH? YES. (LAUGHS) SO SHE'S GOT A BOX OF PHOTOS OF ME. AND IN THE FREE COURIER NEWSPAPER, I DO A COLUMN. TERESA WORKED OUT WHAT DAY THEY WERE DELIVERED AND SO SHE DECIDED TO WALK AROUND THE NEIGHBOURHOOD AND TAKE THE... PAPER. ...THE PAPERS. SO APOLOGIES TO ASHBURTON FOR THAT. BUT YOU DON'T DO IT ANY MORE, EH? NO. I'VE STOPPED IT NOW. NO. YEAH, SO WE SAVE THE PAPERS AND GIVE IT TO YOU SO YOU CAN DO THE CUTTING OUT, EH? (LAUGHS) YEAH. MY SISTER IS FAMOUS. (LAUGHS) SHE WENT TO WELLINGTON ONE TIME FOR A MEETING. YEAH, GO TO WELLINGTON FOR MY MEETINGS, DON'T I? YEAH. YEAH. SO I BECAME TERESA'S GUARDIAN QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO NOW WHEN MUM FIRST BECAME UNWELL, AND WE SHIFTED TERESA TO ASHBURTON. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT? YEAH, WHEN YOU SHIFTED TO ASHBURTON, JUST SO THAT I COULD BE CLOSE. I ESPECIALLY WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE MY MUM, MARGARET. I DEDICATE MY MAIDEN SPEECH TO YOU. YOU ARE THE STRONGEST, BRAVEST, MOST DETERMINED PERSON I KNOW. NO REIRA, TENA KOE, TAKU WHAEA. WE MADE THE DECISION TO TRY AND TRACE OUR WHAKAPAPA WHEN I FOUND OUT THAT MUM HAD BEEN ADOPTED AND BROUGHT UP WITH HER BIOLOGICAL MOTHER AS SISTERS. SHE ENDED UP PUTTING AN AD IN THE WOMAN'S WEEKLY LOOKING FOR CHILDREN OF TREVOR LEBAR. AND OF COURSE, WE ALL THOUGHT IT WAS FRENCH, YOU KNOW, FRENCH NAME. AND HE ENDED UP TURNING OUT TO BE A YOUNG MAORI MAN. THE FAMILY CAME FORWARD, AND WE'VE MET THEM. I HAVE TWO AUNTS AND AN UNCLE. IT WAS REALLY LOVELY WHEN THEY MET FOR THE FIRST TIME AND SHE'S BEEN TO THE CEMETERY WHERE HER DAD IS BURIED BECAUSE I THINK HE PASSED AWAY QUITE YOUNG, AROUND 28, 29. SO IT'S BEEN REALLY COOL, REALLY COOL TO GET TO KNOW THEM. MY IWI IS TAINUI, AND MY HAPU IS NGATI TAHINGA, AND MY GREAT GREAT GREAT GRANDMOTHER WAS CALLED HIRA RAPIHANA. I WAS REALLY, REALLY, INTERESTED TO KNOW THE HISTORY BEHIND THAT SIDE OF MY FAMILY. I WANTED TO KNOW WHERE DO I FIT IN, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR ME? AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S OUR STORY? WHEN I GOT INTO PARLIAMENT, I KIND OF NATURALLY BECAME PART OF MOVING INTO THE MAORI CAUCUS AND THEY'VE NEVER, NEVER QUESTIONED ME, NEVER MADE ME FEEL ANY DIFFERENT IN ANY WAY BECAUSE I HAVEN'T BEEN BROUGHT TE AO MAORI. THEY JUST ACCEPT ME FOR WHO I AM, AND IT'S PRETTY NEAT. IT IS INCREDIBLE WHAT IS IN SOMEONE'S BACK STORY. YOU JUST NEVER KNOW. I LOVED MEETING TERESA. TERESA WAS LOVELY. NGA MIHI NUI. THANKS TO LAURA WALTERS FOR THAT REPORT. TO THE HALLS OF POWER NOW WHERE THE AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER PAID A RARE VISIT TO OUR SITTING PARLIAMENT FOR QUESTION TIME. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT HOW OUR MPs MET THE MOMENT IN THE HOUSE. WELL, THERE WAS A DISTINGUISHED GUEST IN THE CHAMBER THIS WEEK. MINISTER ALBANESE, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU HERE. AND IT'S A VERY SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE WITH AUSTRALIA, AND IT'S GREAT THAT YOU'RE HERE IN NEW ZEALAND. WELCOME. AND OUR POLITICIANS WERE ON THEIR BEST BEHAVIOUR FOR OUR BIG TRANS-TASMAN BROTHER. (LAUGHTER) HOW'S THE CAUCUS LEAK? HOW'S YOUR CAUCUS LEAK? HOW'S THE CAUCUS LEAK? YEAH, WHAT` WHICH ONE WAS IT? JUST KIDDING, THEY ABSOLUTELY WEREN'T. IF ANYTHING, THEY WERE ON EVEN MORE FIERY FORM. THE MEMBER'S ACTIVE CONSPIRACY THEORY BRAIN JUST NEEDS TO BE HELD IN CHECK A LITTLE BIT. IF THE MEMBER DOES READ THROUGH THE DOCUMENTS... INCLUDING THIS ZINGER FROM ROBERTSON TO WILLIS... I KNOW THE MEMBER WILL BE AWARE THAT IN POLITICS FROM TIME TO TIME, WE PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO SOMETHING, AND IT DOESN'T QUITE COME OFF. SIMILAR TO THE MEMBER'S WORK ON HER LEADERSHIP AMBITIONS. AND EVEN THE NORMALLY MILD-MANNERED SPEAKER HAD HAD ENOUGH AFTER A WHILE. (POLITICIANS CLAMOUR) ORDER. OH, BE QUIET, MR BISHOP. GOODNESS SAKES. EVERYONE BE QUIET. THANK YOU. NOW I HAVE FORGOTTEN WHAT THE POINT OF ORDER WAS. (LAUGHS) OH, THAT'S RIGHT... I DON'T KNOW HOW HE KEEPS HIS MIND IN THERE. I LOVE THE TENSION BETWEEN GRANT ROBERTSON AND NICOLA WILLIS. IT'S FUN TO WATCH. YEAH. YEAH. THERE'S GONNA BE LOTS MORE TO DO. OH MY GOSH. THAT'S ALL FROM US FOR NOW. THANKS FOR WATCHING. NGA MIHI NUI, TENA TATAU KATOA. WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEKEND. CAPTIONS BY KATE HARRIS AND JESSIE PURU. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023. HE MEA TONA KITE HOTAKA NEI NA TE PUBLIC INTEREST JOURNALISM FUND.