- TENA TATOU KATOA. I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. E NGA IWI O TE MOTU, NAU MAI KI NEWSHUB NATION. ON THE PROGRAMME TODAY ` STRAP IN FOR OUR FIRST HEAD-TO-HEAD DEBATE THIS ELECTION SEASON ` OUR YOUNG LEADERS' DEBATE. GETTING THE BEST DEAL ` MINOR PARTIES IN PARLIAMENT REVEAL THEIR COALITION BOTTOM LINES, AND THE MP WHO SURFS AND STARTED A FAMILY IN HER TEENS. A FAMILIAR LEADER IN A WHOLE NEW LIGHT ON BACKSTORY. CAPTIONS BY SAM BAKER AND JESSIE PURU. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 WELL, WE'RE ABOUT TO CRACK INTO OUR FIRST DEBATE THIS ELECTION SEASON. ALL THE PARTIES CURRENTLY IN PARLIAMENT SENT THEIR YOUNG LEADERS FOR A HEAD-TO-HEAD IN OUR AUCKLAND STUDIO TO DISCUSS WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT TO RANGATAHI AS THEY MAKE THEIR VOTING CHOICES. BUT FIRST, GUEST REPORTER TRENT DOYLE FILED THIS REPORT. - REPORTER: 800,000 ` THAT'S HOW MANY RANGATAHI 18 TO 30 LIVE IN AOTEAROA, AND WITH THE ELECTION AROUND THE CORNER, YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE A LOT TO CONSIDER THIS YEAR. - YEAH, PROBABLY THE COST OF LIVING, I GUESS. - RENT. - FOOD, EVERYTHING... - I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT POLITICS, SORRY. - BUT ONE YOUNG KIWI WHO DOES IS MAKE IT 16'S CO-DIRECTOR SANAT SINGH. - THE POLITICS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY DOESN'T INSPIRE A LOT OF HOPE ABOUT THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY. - HE SAYS THERE'S A GAP BETWEEN THE RHETORIC FROM POLITICIANS AND WHAT YOUNG PEOPLE NEED, AND THEY WON'T ENGAGE UNLESS POLITICIANS CHANGE THEIR FOCUS. - IT'S GONNA BE VERY HARD FOR US TO SAY THAT THIS POLITICS IS FOR US. - RANGATAHI IN TAMAKI MAKAURAU AREN'T THE ONLY ONES DISENFRANCHISED. SIMILAR ISSUES FACE YOUNG ADULTS IN THE CAPITAL TOO. - COST OF LIVING CRISIS. - PRICES OF GROCERIES. - THE COST OF LIVING. - THE RENT. - THE HOUSING, YEAH. - THE RISING COST OF LIVING IS FORCING STUDENTS TO RECONSIDER STUDY. - STUDENTS' ALLOWANCE ENTITLEMENTS AREN'T CURRENTLY ENOUGH TO COVER EVERYDAY COSTS, WHICH ARE REALLY MAKING IT HARD FOR STUDENTS TO MAKE ENDS MEET ON TOP OF ALREADY WORKING. - KATHERINE BLOW SAYS A UNIVERSAL STUDENT ALLOWANCE WOULD BE A GAME-CHANGER BECAUSE CURRENTLY ONLY ONE IN 10 STUDENTS QUALIFY. - THAT MEANS 92% TO 90% OF STUDENTS ARE TAKING ON A WHOLE LOT OF DEBT TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD RENT, EXPENSES, AND THAT DOESN'T EVEN COVER EVERYTHING. - SHE ALSO SAYS NO TAX ON THE FIRST $15,000 OF INCOME WOULD MAKE LIFE EASIER. - THAT WOULD ENABLE STUDENTS TO LIVE WITH DIGNITY AND ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO FOCUS ON THEIR STUDIES. - IN OTAUTAHI CHRISTCHURCH, IT'S A FAMILIAR STORY. - THE WEEKLY GROCERIES. - COST OF LIVING. - WELL-THOUGHT-OUT PUBLIC TRANSPORT. - HOUSING. - THE HOUSING CRISIS. - DEFINITELY HOUSING. - SO WITH ALL THESE ISSUES, WILL THERE BE A STRONG TURNOUT OF RANGATAHI AT THE BALLOT BOX? LAST ELECTION, 40% OF YOUNG PEOPLE UNDER 25 DIDN'T BOTHER TO ENROL. FOR THOSE WHO DID, ONLY 70% ACTUALLY VOTED. SO WILL THE MAJOR PARTIES ENGAGE THE YOUNG OR WILL THEIR POLICIES FALL FLAT? - SIMON: RIGHT, SO LET'S ASK THEM. WITH US TODAY FOR OUR YOUNG LEADERS' DEBATE IS LABOUR'S ESTEFANIA MULLER PALLARES ` CAN I CALL YOU STEPH? - YOU CAN CALL ME STEPH. - FANTASTIC. 55 ON THE LABOUR LIST. YOU'RE AN OPTIMIST? - OH YEAH. I'M HAPPY. - (LAUGHS) VERY GOOD. JARED PULLAR, YOUNG NATS' VICE PRESIDENT, ALREADY WORKING IN PARLIAMENT FOR TAMA POTAKA. ARE YOU HOPING TO BE ON THE PARTY LIST? - NO, NO. NOT` - NO? OK. NOT AN ASPIRING POLITICIAN YET. NEXT, WE HAVE TE PATI MAORI'S HANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE ` CANDIDATE FOR HAURAKI-WAIKATO. AND YOU'RE UP AGAINST NO LESS THAN FOREIGN MINISTER NANAIA MAHUTA. YOU'RE CLEARLY NOT AFRAID OF A CHALLENGE. - NO. - CAEDEN TIPLER, CO-CONVENOR OF THE YOUNG GREENS. WELCOME. YOU DON'T ACTUALLY WANT TO BE A POLITICIAN. WHY NOT? - SO MANY REASONS, BUT I HAVEN'T EVEN HAD MY FIRST VOTE YET, SO I THINK I'LL START THERE. (ALL LAUGH) - THAT'S A VERY GOOD REASON. AND FINALLY, BUT DEFINITELY NOT LEAST, YOUNG ACT'S PRESIDENT, OLLIE MURPHY, 28TH ON THE PARTY LIST. THAT'S RIGHT? - THAT'S RIGHT. - YOU'VE BEEN TO UKRAINE? - THAT'S RIGHT. - YOU'RE YOUNG` YOU'RE PART OF YOUNG ACT. WHICH IS MORE CONFRONTING? (LAUGHTER) - OOH. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AIR RAID SIRENS TWICE A DAY IS PRETTY SCARY, BUT` - MORE SCARY THAN DAVID SEYMOUR? - (LAUGHS) - OK. ALL RIGHT. - A LITTLE BIT. - LET'S GET ON WITH THE DEBATE. LET'S START WITH OUR FIRST TOPIC. AND OUR FIRST TOPIC IS THE COST OF LIVING, WHICH EVERYONE'S TALKING ABOUT. CAN I ASK YOU, WHAT IS ONE THING YOU'VE GIVEN UP TO MAKE ENDS MEET? OLLIE, YOU'RE FIRST. - I THINK THE FIRST THING TO GO IS DECENT FOOD, YOU KNOW? BACK ON THE NOODLES AND MCDONALDS, I THINK. - OH, CAEDEN, CAN YOU SYMPATHISE WITH THAT? - YEAH, I CAN SYMPATHISE WITH THAT. AND FOR ME IT'S, YOU KNOW, MISSING OUT ON THE CLASSIC TERTIARY EDUCATION FLATTING EXPERIENCE BECAUSE IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE TO MOVE OUT. SO, YEAH, I EMPATHISE. - WHAT ABOUT YOU, HANA? - YEAH, HAVING TO TAKE UP ON FOUR CONTRACTS BEFORE MAKING THIS POLITICAL VENTURE JUST TO MAKE ENDS MEET. - RIGHT, SO YOU HAD TO WORK FOUR DIFFERENT CONTRACTS... - YES. - ...TO MAKE ENDS MEET. WHAT ABOUT YOU, JARED? - YEAH, THINGS ARE DEFINITELY TOUGH FOR A LOT OF YOUNG NEW ZEALANDERS, AND, FOR ME, BUYING A LOT OF THINGS MORE IN BULK AND DOING THINGS LIKE THAT ` REALLY THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE BUYING IS SOMETHING I'VE HAD TO CONSIDER AND DO. - AND, STEPH, WHAT HAVE YOU HAD TO GIVE UP? - I WOULD ALSO JUMP ON THE FOOD. MY FLAT AND I, WE GET THESE BOXES LIKE WONKY BOX AND PERFECTLY IMPERFECT. THAT SORT OF RESCUED FOOD. AND SO THEY'RE CHEAPER THAN WHAT YOU'D GET AT THE SUPERMARKET. - RESCUE FOOD? - YEAH. - THIS ALL POINTS TO THE FACT THAT NEW ZEALAND IS TOO EXPENSIVE. SO THERE'S A STAT HERE ` 35,000 18-TO-30s LEFT NEW ZEALAND IN THE YEAR TO MAY. SO THIS IS A HANDS UP. HANDS UP IF YOU HAVE CONSIDERED LEAVING NEW ZEALAND TO WORK. OK, SO JUST YOU, OLLIE. WHAT KEPT YOU? - WELL, I THINK I'D MUCH PREFER TO STAY IN NEW ZEALAND AND ACTUALLY MAKE IT A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE IN. YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOT OF YOUNG KIWIS ARE THINKING OF MOVING OVERSEAS JUST BECAUSE, BY THE NUMBERS, THEY ALL MAKE MORE MONEY; THEY'LL PAY LESS TAX, AND THEY'LL HAVE A BETTER FUTURE. - SO, OK, IF WE ASK WHAT IS ONE SINGLE POLITICAL POLICY OR SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD CHANGE TO TEMPT PEOPLE TO STAY, WHAT WOULD IT BE? - LOWER TAXES. - WHAT ABOUT YOU, CAEDEN? DO YOU THINK THERE'S ONE THING THAT COULD TEMPT PEOPLE TO STAY? - OH, LOOK, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ONE CATCH OR SOLUTION FOR SOMETHING THAT'S SO COMPLEX, BUT SOME POLICIES THAT THE GREEN PARTY HAVE PROPOSED, LIKE THE INCOME GUARANTEE, WILL HELP KEEP PEOPLE LIKE STUDENTS IN AOTEAROA BECAUSE IT WILL MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE TO STUDY. - HANA, DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION? - YEAH. SO WHEN WE LOOK TE PATI MAORI'S 15% GST OFF FRUIT AND VEGETABLES, WE CAN'T EVEN GET THE BASIC NECESSITIES FOR A PERSON TO SURVIVE IN AOTEAROA. - AND THAT GOES BACK TO THE COST OF LIVING. - BACK TO THE COST OF LIVING. IF WE LOOK AT 95% OF OUR MILK AND DAIRY IS EXPORTED OUT OF NEW ZEALAND, 90% OF OUR MEAT IS EXPORTED OUT OF NEW ZEALAND, AND IT'S CHEAPER TO GET THE KAI THAT'S MADE HERE OVERSEAS. - OK. JARED, WHAT DO YOU THINK? WHAT WOULD TEMPT PEOPLE TO STAY? - MORE MONEY IN THEIR BACK POCKET WOULD BE A GREAT THING TO START WITH, BUT ALSO COST OF LIVING PRESSURES THAT HAVE BEEN INFLICTED UPON US BY THE GOVERNMENT. THEY JUST NEED TO STOP THE WASTEFUL SPENDING AND GETTING BACK TO THINGS` - CAN I JUST SAY AS WELL? YOU SAID MORE MONEY IN BACK POCKETS. WELL, THAT'S WHY THE GREEN PARTY IS ACTUALLY THE PARTY OF TAX CUTS THIS ELECTION. - OK, WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT TAX A LITTLE BIT LATER ON. JUST FINALLY, STEPH, I MEAN, DO YOU THINK THERE IS ONE PARTICULAR POLICY THAT WOULD KEEP YOUNG NEW ZEALANDERS IN NEW ZEALAND? - THERE'S NOT ONE PARTICULAR THING THAT COMES TO MIND. I THINK I'D AGREE WITH YOU. THERE'S A MULTITUDE OF THINGS THAT PLAY INTO THOSE DECISIONS. AND I MEAN, IF ANYONE HAS A REASON TO LEAVE, IT'S PEOPLE LIKE ME. HALF MY FAMILY'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD, BUT I THINK IT'S A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO BE. - LET'S MOVE ON TO CLIMATE, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE OR A FLAT, YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE WASHED AWAY IN AN EXTREME WEATHER EVENT. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE ON THAT. JUST QUICKLY ` I WANT YOU TO NAME THE NUMBER ONE CLIMATE CHANGE PRIORITY. CAEDEN, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU. - OOH, GOOD QUESTIONS. I THINK IT'S MAKING SURE WE'RE INVESTING IN PUBLIC TRANSPORT, NOT HIGH-EMISSION ROADING PROJECTS. WHEN THE GOVERNMENT SAYS MONEY DOESN'T GROW ON TREES, APPARENTLY IT GROWS ON ROADS, APPARENTLY. AND THAT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH CLIMATE CHANGE. - ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT ROADS. JARED, WHAT'S THE NUMBER ONE CLIMATE CHANGE POLICY FOR YOU? - LOOK, I THINK NATIONAL'S POLICY OF ELECTRIFYING NZ IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF ACTUALLY UNLOCKING RENEWABLES, CUTTING RED TAPE AND GETTING THE SECTOR INTO A POSITION THAT THEY CAN BUILD RENEWABLE ENERGY FOR US GOING FORWARD. - ALL RIGHT. HANA? - YOU KNOW, I'M KIND OF SICK OF THIS KORERO AROUND CLIMATE CHANGE BECAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE` THE CLIMATE IS CONSTANTLY EVOLVING. THAT'S ITS SOLE PURPOSE, IS TO CONSTANTLY EVOLVE. AND IT'S THE HUMAN CHANGE THAT WE NEED TO DO, AND WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT MATAURANGA MAORI STRATEGIES, ADVISORIES THAT CAN IMPLEMENT THE MATAURANGA THAT WE KNOW THAT CAN HELP WITH CLIMATE. - OK. IF YOU DO THAT, CAN YOU GIVE ME... AN EXAMPLE OF THAT? HOW? - SO, FROM A PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, KO AKA MAHI KO TE MARAMATAKA MAORI ` THE MAORI LUNAR CYCLE CALENDAR, AND IN RECENT EVENTS WITH THE FLOODS AND E MIHI ANA KI A KOE ME TO WHANAU KI AHURIRI. BUT WITH THE RECENT EVENTS WITH THE FLOODS IN NAPIER, WE SAW` AND IT MAY SOUND CRAZY TO SOME, BUT THERE WERE TOHU AND SIGNALS IN THE SKY THAT COULD PREDICT THAT BEFORE ANY WEATHER OR HORTICULTURALISTS OR SCIENTISTS COULD GIVE US. AND THAT'S THE LAYER THAT WE NEED TO ADD WITHIN OUR GOVERNMENT. - OK. THANK YOU FOR THAT. STEPH, WHAT'S THE NUMBER ONE CLIMATE CHANGE POLICY IN YOUR VIEW? - INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT A POLICY, I THINK THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE CLIMATE CHANGE COMMISSION, AN INDEPENDENT GROUP THAT GIVES GOVERNMENT ADVICE. - RIGHT, SO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE FRAMEWORK IS THERE NOW? - I THINK THAT THE FRAMEWORK IS FOUNDATIONAL TO ALL THE WORK WE HAVE TO DO BECAUSE WE HAVE TO APPROACH TRANSPORT; WE HAVE TO APPROACH POWER; WE HAVE TO APPROACH WASTE, INDIVIDUAL BEHAVIOURS AS WELL AS BUSINESS. SO IT'S A REALLY COMPLEX ISSUE. - YEAH, IT IS A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE. OR IS IT, OLLIE? BECAUSE ACT'S CLIMATE CHANGE POLICY IS PRETTY SIMPLE. ISN'T IT JUST MARKET LED? - ACTUALLY, NOT ENTIRELY TRUE. WE BELIEVE THAT THE ETS, WHICH MANY, MANY REPORTS SAY IS THE ONE AND ONLY POLICY WE REALLY DO NEED TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE, ACT WOULD SET OUT ETS WITH OUR TOP FIVE TRADING PARTNERS. SO WHILE WE'RE DOING OUR BIT, WE CAN ACTUALLY FOCUS ON GROWING OUR ECONOMY SO WE CAN AFFORD THE TECHNOLOGICAL SHIFT THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. - RIGHT, SO WHAT IF THE TRADING PARTNERS DON'T REALLY SET A HIGH BAR IN TERMS OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND ETS PRICES? - WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, THE REALITY IS IF OUR TOP FIVE` IF OUR TOP TRADING PARTNERS, THE LARGEST EMITTERS IN THE WORLD, DON'T DO ANYTHING, THEN NOTHING WE CAN DO WILL ACTUALLY HELP THAT. - BUT DOES THAT MEAN WE JUST DO NOTHING? - THE BEST THING WE COULD FOCUS ON IS DEVELOPING OUR TECHNOLOGY, THINGS LIKE GMOs THAT THE GREEN PARTY ARE THE MOST AGAINST. - YEP. - WHILE ALSO SAYING THAT AGRICULTURE IS OUR LARGEST EMITTER. GMOs CAN BE THE SOLUTION TO THAT. - OK, HANG ON. WELL, LET'S JUST JUMP IN. - CAN I RESPOND TO THAT AS THE GREEN PARTY? - CAEDEN, YOU CAN RESPOND TO THAT. - I DON'T THINK THAT'S ENTIRELY TRUE ANY MORE. THE GREEN PARTY SUPPORTS REVIEWS INTO HOW WE DO GMO. BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS WE CAN'T JUST WAIT AROUND FOR A SOLUTION TO MAGICALLY INVENT ITSELF. - GMOs. - WE KNOW WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO SOLVE THE CLIMATE CRISIS. IT'S NOT JUST GMOs. IT'S NOT JUST TECHNOLOGY. CAPITALISM GOT US INTO THIS SITUATION. IT'S NOT GOING TO GET US OUT OF THE SITUATION. - YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CAPITALISM, BUT YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE ECOLOGICAL DAMAGE THAT HAPPENED UNDER THE SOVIET UNION. - OK. ALL RIGHT, LET'S MOVE ON. BECAUSE, STEPH, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT` YOU INTERJECTED THERE TO SAY YOU JUST CAN'T SIT AROUND AND DO NOTHING. SO IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ACT IS PROPOSING? - WELL, IF YOU LEAVE IT UP TO PRIVATE INDUSTRY, THAT IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU'RE RISKING, RIGHT? SO WE'VE TAKEN ACTION. AND, I MEAN, THIS IS THE SECOND YEAR CONSECUTIVELY THAT WE'VE SEEN CARBON EMISSIONS NATIONALLY DROP. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WORKING. SO WE'VE GOT TO KEEP ON THE PATH THAT WE'RE ON. - WHILE BURNING MORE COAL. - OR CONSENTING MINING PROJECTS. - ALL RIGHT. LET'S JUST QUICKLY TALK EMISSIONS. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF EMPHASIS ON ROADS BY THE MAJOR PARTIES. IS THAT THE RIGHT FOCUS, JARED? - YOU KNOW, ROADS ARE GREAT BECAUSE THEY BRING IN THE PRODUCTIVITY GAINS AND EFFICIENCY AROUND, IF YOU'RE NOT HAVING A TRUCK SITTING IN LONG QUEUES OF TRAFFIC AND THEY CAN BE MOVING THROUGH, WE'RE GOING TO BE GETTING THAT BENEFIT ALL THROUGHOUT. SO I THINK IT'S BEEN A REALLY BALANCED PLAN ` OUR TRANSPORT PLAN ` AND IT HAD PUBLIC TRANSPORT BUILT INTO IT AS WELL. - WELL, LIKE BUSES, BUT YOU DON'T REALLY TALK ABOUT RAIL OR LIGHT RAIL, DO YOU? - NO. BUT THERE WAS AROUND IN THE LOWER NORTH ISLAND AS WELL. - OK. I MEAN THIS IS DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO, SAY, YOU, CAEDEN, WHO I WOULD IMAGINE YOU DO TALK ABOUT PUBLIC TRANSPORT, BUT ROADS ARE THE BACKBONE OF OUR ECONOMY. THEY'RE THE LIFEBLOOD OF TRADE GOING UP AND DOWN THE COUNTRY. - LOOK, CLIMATE CHANGE IS GOING TO FORCE US TO CHANGE THE WAY WE OPERATE OUR ECONOMY REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE DO. SO RIGHT NOW, WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE JUST TRANSITIONS, AND THAT INCLUDES NOT INVESTING IN HIGH-EMISSIONS PROJECTS LIKE ROADS. WE NEED TO INVEST IN PUBLIC TRANSPORT NOW. WE NEED TO INVEST IN LIGHT RAIL NOW UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE FOR US TO DO ANYTHING. - OK. YES, HANA. - I JUST WANT TO COME IN HERE AROUND THE PUBLIC TRANSPORT BECAUSE I THINK PUBLIC TRANSPORT SHOULD BE FREE FOR EVERYONE, AND WE CAN TRANSITION THAT. WE CAN TRANSITION THAT AS WE GO OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. BUT I'D ALSO LIKE TO SAY THAT THE GOVERNMENT REALLY ONLY FOCUSES PUBLIC TRANSPORT ON THE LARGEST CITIES. THERE ARE SOME CITIES LIKE IN OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES WITHIN TE TAIRAWHITI WHO DON'T EVEN HAVE A ROAD. SO I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A MORE FAIRER SOLUTION TOWARDS IT. - OK. LET'S TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS. I'M GOING TO MOVE ON NOW TO THE WEALTH GAP. OK, SO HERE'S A STATISTIC FOR YOU. THE WEALTH GAP ` THE TOP 1% HAVE 20% OF THE WEALTH. THE BOTTOM 50% HAVE 2%. JARED, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? - LOOK, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF AREAS THAT WE CAN IMPROVE TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IS` THERE IS GREATER PROSPERITY FOR NEW ZEALAND AS A WHOLE. - OK. OLLIE, IS THAT GAP ACCEPTABLE? - IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT INEQUALITY, LET'S TALK ABOUT AUSTRALIA. - NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW ZEALAND. - UNDER LABOUR, NEW ZEALAND MEDIAN WAGES HAVE GONE FROM $17,000 TO $23,000. - SHALL WE TALK ABOUT HOW AUSTRALIA HAS A CAPITAL GAINS TAX? - I'M GOING TO BRING YOU BACK HERE. SO THAT GAP SEEMS QUITE LARGE. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S GOOD; I'M NOT SAYING IT'S BAD, BUT I'M ASKING YOU WHETHER IT'S ACCEPTABLE. - THE ONE FOR AUSTRALIA, OR`? - NO, NEW ZEALAND. LET'S TALK ABOUT NEW ZEALAND. - LOOK, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF TALL POPPY SYNDROME IN THIS COUNTRY. YOU KNOW, WE SHOULDN'T BE AGAINST SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE. WE NEED TO BE ENCOURAGING EVERYONE TO BE UPLIFTED. - OK, SO YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. HANA, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THAT? - WITHIN TE PATI MAORI'S TAX POLICY THAT'S JUST BEEN RELEASED, 98% OF ALL KIWIS IN AOTEAROA WILL GAIN SOME MONEY, BECAUSE, FOR US, HOW CAN 2% OF THE WEALTHIEST PEOPLE GETTING AN AVERAGE OF $2.6M ONLY PAY 9.4% IN TAX? - OK, SO WHICH IS WHY YOUR PARTY WANTS A WEALTH TAX? - YES. - YOUR PARTY, CAEDEN, WANTS A WEALTH TAX. - ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, WE'VE OUTLINED HOW WEALTH TAX CAN INCREASE PROSPERITY FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF NEW ZEALANDERS THROUGH TAX CUTS FOR MOST NEW ZEALANDERS AND THROUGH PROGRAMMES LIKE FREE DENTAL AND FREE PUBLIC TRANSPORT, WHICH IS GOOD FOR CLIMATE AND COST OF LIVING. - OK, SO I UNDERSTAND` I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION. I UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION ` NO WEALTH TAX. THERE'S NO WEALTH TAX FROM NATIONAL. STEPH, THERE SEEMS TO BE A BIT OF PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR A WEALTH TAX IN RECENT POLLS. DO YOU WISH CHRIS HIPKINS HAD NOT RULED IT OUT? - LOOK, HE'S MADE HIS DECISION, AND WE WILL BE RELEASING OUR TAX POLICY SOON. SO I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE AWAY TOO MUCH. BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS WE DO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT, AND WE RAISED THE TOP TAX RATE TO 39%. IT BRINGS IN $800M A YEAR. WE'VE ALSO CHANGED THE WAY THAT WE TAX TRUSTS, SO WE ARE WORKING TO CLOSE THAT GAP. - - SURE. ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE CAPTAIN'S CALL FROM CHRIS HIPKINS THAT HE RULED OUT THE WEALTH TAX? - WE WILL BE RELEASING OUR TAX POLICY SOON. (CHUCKLES) - WE CAN READ INTO THAT. LET'S TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF OTHER ISSUES THAT THE YOUTH ARE DEALING WITH ` VAPING. SO THIS IS HANDS UP AGAIN, ALL RIGHT? WHO HERE VAPES? NO ONE? NOBODY VAPES. AMAZING! YOU GO AGAINST THE STATISTICS. MORE THAN ONE FIFTH OF 18- TO 24-YEAR-OLDS APPARENTLY VAPE DAILY. BUT IT IS AN ISSUE. NEW LAWS ARE ABOUT TO TAKE EFFECT THIS MONTH. OLLIE, ARE THEY SUITABLE? - I DON'T THINK SO. - WHY NOT? - I THINK AS MOST OF US ARE SHOWING, YOU KNOW, IT SHOULD BE PERSONAL CHOICE. WE'VE CHOSEN NOT TO DO IT, BUT PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND HOW THEY WANT TO DO IT. - WELL, THEY STILL CAN, RIGHT? - WELL, NOT AS MUCH UNDER THESE NEW LAWS. - WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY, STEPH? - SO, WHAT'S CHANGING IN AUGUST IS THE FACT THAT WE'RE SAYING NO NEW VAPE SHOPS AROUND KURA, MARAE AND SCHOOLS SO THAT YOUNG PEOPLE AREN'T GETTING INTO IT, BUT I THINK IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST TOOLS WE HAVE TO GETTING PEOPLE OFF SMOKING AND TO GETTING TO OUR SMOKE-FREE GOALS. - RIGHT? SHOULD WE GO EVEN FURTHER, THOUGH, HANA? SHOULD WE JUST BAN VAPES OR MAKE THEM PRESCRIPTION LIKE IN AUSTRALIA? - IT SHOULD NOT BE A PRESCRIPTION. - SOMETHING THAT WAS PUT OUT BY PRIME MINISTER CHRIS HIPKINS IS I WAS KIND OF OFFENDED THAT HE SAID MARAE. WHY WOULD YOU TARGET A SPECIFIC GROUP AND NOT, SAY, WORKPLACES? WHY WOULD YOU SAY MARAE? - BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT YOUNG PEOPLE. - AND THE OTHER THING, TO FINISH IT OFF, IS THAT I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME MORE EDUCATION AND PREVENTION AROUND THE CHEMICALS THAT ARE IN VAPING, BECAUSE IT'S GOT LOLLY FLAVOURS, IT'S ATTRACTIVE TO RANGATAHI. - OK` SORRY, YEAH, JUST QUICKLY. - SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERJECT. SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE'RE DOING THESE REGULATIONS WHICH WILL NOT BE A PRESCRIPTION BECAUSE OF THE YOUTH UPTAKE OF VAPING. AND SO IT'S BECAUSE OF WHERE YOUTH ARE, WHERE A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE ARE. THAT'S WHY IT'S PREDOMINANTLY SCHOOLS. - OK, JARED. SHOULD VAPES BE BANNED? - I'VE GOT FRIENDS WHO ARE TEACHERS WHO KNOW THAT VAPING IN AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE IS GETTING WORSE, AND NATIONAL SUPPORTS WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING IN AND AROUND TAKING IT AWAY FROM THOSE KEY AREAS. BUT IT DOES NEED TO BE BALANCED. THERE NEEDS TO BE AN OPTION FOR PEOPLE TO COME OFF SMOKING AND INTO VAPING. - OK. ALL RIGHT. I'M GONNA MOVE ON TO ANOTHER QUICK ISSUE ` PHONES IN SCHOOLS. SHOULD THEY BE BANNED BY THE GOVERNMENT AS PROMISED BY NATIONAL? STEPH? - NO, NOT ` FOR SAFETY REASONS. - NO. WHY NOT? - WELL, FOR SAFETY REASONS. YOU STILL NEED PHONES IN SCHOOLS. - OK. OLLIE? - NO. I THINK SCHOOLS ARE CAPABLE ENOUGH OF MAKING THAT DECISION FOR THEMSELVES. - CAEDEN? - NO. IT WON'T SOLVE ANY OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE IN OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM. WE NEED TO BE INVESTING IN TEACHERS, NOT CATCH-LINE, HEADLINE POLICIES LIKE BANNING PHONES, WHICH AREN'T GIVEN THE RESOURCES AND WON'T DO ANYTHING. - SO WHAT'S YOUR POSITION, HANA? - YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BAN PHONES. WE SHOULD BE PAYING TEACHERS MORE. WE SHOULD BE` - OK. THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE. WE'RE GONNA WRAP UP NOW. BUT FINALLY, AS YOUNG LEADERS, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN PARLIAMENT. RIGHT? SOME OF YOU WANT TO GO THERE. STEPH, YOU WANT TO GO THERE. YOU MAY GET THERE, MAYBE NOT. WHAT CHANGE WOULD YOU MAKE TO THE PARLIAMENTARY CULTURE IF YOU GOT THERE? - I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WE PROBABLY ALL AGREE ON AS YOUNG PEOPLE, BUT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE PRESSURE THAT POLITICIANS HAVE ON THEM AND HOW IT'S AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU HAVE THESE SUPER HIGH EXPECTATIONS, AND WE ARE ALL HUMANS, AND SO I THINK AS A YOUNG GENERATION COMING INTO POLITICS, IT'S HOPEFULLY A CHANGE WE WOULD ALL LIKE TO SEE IS` - WHAT ABOUT YOU, OLLIE? I MEAN, YOU` ACT GETS 21%, YOU MAY BE THERE. - WELL, WE'LL SEE. BUT I THINK POLITICIANS, ESPECIALLY DOWN IN WELLINGTON, I THINK JUST NEED TO CHILL OUT A LITTLE BIT. (LAUGHTER) I THINK A LOT OF NORMAL KIWIS WHO ARE JUST GETTING ON WITH THEIR LIVES LOOK AT WELLINGTON, LOOK AT POLITICIANS AND THINK, YOU KNOW, 'DO THEY REALLY HAVE MY BEST INTERESTS AT HEART?' - RIGHT. RIGHT. - AND IF THEY CHILLED OUT A LITTLE BIT, MAYBE... - OK. CAEDEN, YOU SPENT A BIT OF TIME DOWN IN WELLINGTON RECENTLY WITH THE MAKE IT 16 CAMPAIGN. DID YOU LIKE IT? - OH, LOOK, I THINK I THINK THERE'S MANY ISSUES WITH PARLIAMENT. I THINK WITH RECENT CRISES ` WE'VE HAD CLIMATE CHANGE BEING ONE, COVID-19 BEING ANOTHER ` IT'S EASY TO LOSE SIGHT OF THE BIGGER PICTURE WHEN YOU'RE IN THOSE SPACES. SO I HOPE WE CAN SUPPORT OUR POLITICIANS TO REMEMBER THEIR COMMUNITIES AND WHO THEY'RE FIGHTING FOR IN THOSE SPACES. - OK. JARED, YOU WORK IN PARLIAMENT. - I DO. - IS IT GOOD? IS IT NASTY? IS IT CONFRONTATIONAL? WHAT DO YOU THINK? - THAT ISN'T MY EXPERIENCE, AND I THINK NATIONAL'S TEAM IS REALLY FOCUSED ON DELIVERING WHAT'S BEST FOR NEW ZEALAND. BUT LOOK, I THINK IF YOU WANT TO MAKE CHANGE AND YOU WANT TO GET RESOURCE OUT INTO THE COMMUNITIES THAT NEED IT, INTO THE PROGRAMMES THAT NEED IT, ULTIMATELY, THAT'S GOING TO BE THROUGH PARLIAMENT AND THROUGH GETTING THAT RESOURCE THERE. - YOU'VE GOT TO BE INVOLVED. OK. - THAT'S RIGHT. - ALL RIGHT. AND, HANA, YOU WANT TO BE INVOLVED. DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE INVOLVED? - DEFINITELY. DEFINITELY. I THINK I COULD HAVE GONE TO ANY OTHER LEFT-WING PARTY AND WITHOUT SOUNDING WHAKAHIHI... HOWEVER, I KNOW THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, TE PATI MAORI WILL LOOK AFTER ONE THING THAT I KNOW NO OTHER PARTY CAN, WHICH IS MY WAIRUA. - OK, AND WITH THAT, I'M GONNA WRAP UP OUR DEBATE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING PART. I REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE IT. SO THANK YOU TO STEPH, JARED, HANA, CAEDEN AND OLLIE. AND THAT WRAPS IT FOR US. NGA MIHI NUI. - KIA ORA. - AND THERE YOU HAVE IT ` OUR YOUNG LEADERS' DEBATE. REPRESENTING ALL THE PARTIES CURRENTLY IN PARLIAMENT. LET'S SEE WHAT OUR POLITICAL PANEL THOUGHT OF IT ` DR LARA GREAVES AND JORDAN WILLIAMS AFTER THE BREAK. PLUS, A FAMILIAR PARTY LEADER IN A WHOLE NEW LIGHT ` THAT'S COMING UP IN BACKSTORY. - HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK TO OUR POLITICAL PANEL ` DR LARA GREAVES, WHO IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT VICTORIA UNIVERSITY, AND LAWYER JORDAN WILLIAMS, WHO IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF CONSERVATIVE LOBBY GROUP THE TAXPAYERS' UNION. TENA KORUA. THANKS FOR COMING ALONG. WE HAVE JUST SEEN OUR FUTURE YOUNG LEADERS PERHAPS. DO THEY FILL YOU WITH HOPE, LARA? - OH, I LOVE THEM SO MUCH. I ALSO DON'T WANT TO BE ONE OF THOSE PATRONISING THIRTYSOMETHINGS WHO'S LIKE, 'OH, THEY'RE SO GREAT. THEY'RE SO FULL OF HOPE.' BUT THEY ARE, AND IT'S SO GREAT TO SEE POLITICS FROM THEIR POSITION, KIND OF THEIR PARTIES' POSITIONS, BUT THEIR POSITIONS, AND JUST, LIKE, THAT UNPOLISHED NATURE. I REMEMBER THINKING BACK TO THE TAURANGA CANDIDATE DEBATE ON NEWSHUB NATION ` SAME SORT OF THING. IT IS GREAT TO SEE PEOPLE WHO ARE NEWER AT THE GAME WHO DON'T HAVE ALL THAT MEDIA TRAINING, THOSE SOUNDBITES. IT'S GREAT TO SEE. - WHAT DID YOU THINK, JORDAN? - I AGREE. IT'S THE RAW EMOTION AND ALMOST LACK OF FILTER. SOME OF THE INTERJECTIONS WERE REALLY GOOD. IT'S A WAY YOU HAVE THAT ` NOT IDEOLOGICAL, BUT IT IS MORE RAW, ISN'T IT? CLASSIC YOUTH POLITICS` LOOK, I WAS THERE. I WAS LOOKING AT THAT AND THINKING, 'WHICH ONE WOULD I HAVE BEEN?' - YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN WITH THE GREEN PARTY, RIGHT? - YEAH, I WAS. I WAS VERY ANTI GE, AND I WOULD'VE BEEN THERE FOR THE GREENS. BUT AS YOU GET OLDER, YOU LEARN MORE ABOUT OPPORTUNITY COSTS. - THE WORLD IS THEIR OPPORTUNITY. WE TALKED A COUPLE OF ISSUES THERE. ONE OF THEM WAS VAPING WHICH WAS INTERESTING ` NOBODY PUT THEIR HAND UP WITH THAT. STATISTICALLY, IT HAS SEEMED TO BE A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS REGULATION. JORDAN, I'M GOING TO ASK YOUR OPINION FIRST, BUT I SHOULD POINT OUT YOU ARE PARTLY FUNDED BY THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY. - WE ARE 2% INDUSTRY FUNDED. A SUBSET OF THAT IS A NICOTINE INDUSTRY. - SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOUR POLICY IS THERE SHOULD BE NO REGULATION ON VAPING? - NO, NOT AT ALL. THE FIRST THING IS THAT VAPES ARE ONLY FOR ABOVE 18, BUT THAT IS NOT BEING ENFORCED. THAT IS TRULY WRONG. HAVING SAID THAT, NEW ZEALAND IS A SUCCESS STORY, PARTICULARLY COMPARED TO AUSTRALIA, IN ACTUALLY GETTING PEOPLE OFF THE CIGARETTES ON TO SOMETHING THAT'S AT LEAST 95% SAFER. - RIGHT. FROM ACT'S POINT OF VIEW... THAT GOES DIFFERENT TO ACT'S POINT OF VIEW WHICH IS PERSONAL CHOICE FOR EVERYBODY, SO IT'S QUITE LIBERTARIAN, AND THE GOVERNMENT IS BRINGING IN LAWS AROUND SCHOOLS AND MARAE. IT WAS INTERESTING THAT TE PATI MAORI'S HANA GOT OFFENDED BY THE MARAE COMMENT, DIDN'T SHE? - THIS ONE IS TOUGH IN TERMS OF YOU'VE GOT TRADE-OFFS HERE. NONE OF US WANT TO SEE OUR KIDS VAPING. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE MAORI PARTY HAVE LED THE SMOKE-FREE NEW ZEALAND. WE ARE ON THE PATH, WE ARE GOING TO GET THERE. - THAT'S OPTIMISTIC. SOME PEOPLE DON'T THINK WE ARE. - NO, NO, NO. EVEN THE ANTI-SMOKING GROUPS HAVE COME ROUND TO OUR VIEW. WE WERE VERY EARLY` WE CAME IN FROM A TAX POINT OF VIEW BECAUSE YOU ARE TAXING THE POOREST COMMUNITIES IN NEW ZEALAND A HECK OF A LOT, VASTLY MORE THAN THE COSTS ARE TO THE HEALTH SYSTEM. HOW DO WE STOP KIDS FROM PICKING IT UP WHILE PROTECTING THE GOOD THINGS? - WE WILL MOVE ON TO OTHER ISSUES. LARA, I WAS INTERESTED IN YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON HOW YOUTH ENGAGEMENT IS CHANGING OVER ELECTIONS. ARE THEY MORE ENGAGED OR LESS ENGAGED? - WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF DATA ON THAT OTHER THAN TURNOUT STATISTICS OF THAT YOUNG, TEENAGE GROUP. ONE THING THAT PEOPLE ALWAYS ARGUE IS THAT IT'S NOT JUST VOTER TURNOUTS, SO THOSE RANGATAHI, FOR EXAMPLE, WERE KIND OF PARTICIPATING IN DROVES. - THEY ARE TOTALLY INTO IT, YEAH. - BUT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF DATA. WE HAVE DONE SOME WORK WITH THE YOUTH 19 SURVEY AS PART OF THE ADOLESCENT HEALTH RESEARCH GROUP. WE SAW THAT YOUNG PEOPLE ARE QUITE CONCERNED ` AND THIS IS BEFORE COVID ` ABOUT THINGS LIKE MENTAL HEALTH, CONCERNED ABOUT INEQUALITY, SCHOOL NOT BEING UP-TO-DATE. - IS ANYBODY DOING WORK ON HOW TO INCREASE THAT ENGAGEMENT? - WELL, THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION ALWAYS IS DOING THAT KIND OF WORK, I GUESS. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF RESEARCH FUNDING IN NEW ZEALAND AND A LOT OF RESEARCH INTO THINGS LIKE POLITICS. - SO THERE'S NO ANSWER? IS THERE AN EXAMPLE WE SHOULD BE FOLLOWING TO IMPROVE THAT? IS AUSTRALIA SOMEWHERE TO LOOK AT OR ANY OTHER JURISDICTION? - WELL, AUSTRALIA HAS GOT COMPULSORY VOTING, SO THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER KETTLE OF FISH. GENERALLY, IT IS A CASE THAT PEOPLE... THAT GROUP SHOWS THAT THERE ARE HYPER-ENGAGED YOUNG PEOPLE THAT DO HAVE A LOT OF STRONG OPINIONS. - JORDAN, THEY WOULD NOT BE REPRESENTATIVE, RIGHT? SO HOW DO WE... ATTRACT THE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T ENGAGED AND GET THEM OVER THE LINE INTO THE VOTING BOOTH? - AS POLITICAL APPARATCHIKS OR PEOPLE THAT HAVE THEIR CAREER IN POLITICS, WE WANT EVERYONE TO BE AS INTERESTED AS WE ARE. YOU CAN'T MAKE IT HAPPEN, THOUGH. AS YOU GO THROUGH STAGES OF LIFE ` I NOW OWN MY OWN HOUSE, AND I HAVE KIDS ` THAT CHANGES YOUR VIEW ON THINGS NATURALLY. YES, WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT OUR 18-YEAR-OLDS OR 16-YEAR-OLDS UNDERSTAND HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS AND THE VOTING SYSTEM AND THINGS LIKE THAT... - EDUCATION, RIGHT? - YEAH, EXACTLY. BUT TRYING TO FORCE THE INTEREST, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO IT. - THE POINT IS THAT IF YOU AS AN OLDER VOTER ARE MAKING THE POLITICAL DECISIONS FOR YOUNGER PEOPLE IF THEY DON'T GET ENGAGED, THEY HAVE TO LIVE WITH OUR POLITICAL DECISIONS. - THAT'S WHAT BEING AN ADULT'S ABOUT. GOOD ON THE VOTE FOR 16 GUYS FOR DOING IT. IF 18 CAN'T BE JUSTIFIED, WHY 16? WHERE DO YOU DRAW THAT LINE? - TODAY IS A BIG DAY FOR POLITICAL PARTIES BECAUSE THE HOARDINGS ARE ALLOWED TO GO UP. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY ON YOUR WAY HERE? - NO, I WAS QUITE CLOSE, THOUGH. I WILL HAVE A DRIVE TO HAVE A HOON AROUND, HAVE A LOOK AT WHAT'S BEEN PUT UP. IT IS ONE OF THOSE MARKERS OF THE CAMPAIGN STARTING WHERE THE REGULAR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT INTO POLITICS GO, 'OH NO, HERE WE GO AGAIN.' BUT FOR THE REST OF US, IT'S LIKE, 'OOH. WHO IS SHOWING WHAT? WHAT COLOURS ARE OUT?' - IT BRINGS IT ALIVE. YOU'RE DRIVING AROUND ` IT'S THERE, YOU CAN'T AVOID IT. - IT KICKS IT OFF. - IT KICKS IT OFF. - THERE WAS THE START OF THE REGULATOR PERIOD, BUT THIS ACTUALLY KICKS IT OFF FOR REGULAR PEOPLE WHERE POLITICIANS BECOME PART OF THEIR LIFE. WE STILL KNOW THAT AT THIS POINT, LOOKING AT SOMETHING LIKE THE NEW ZEALAND ELECTIONS STUDY, 30% TO 40% OF PEOPLE HAVE NOT FULLY MADE THEIR MIND UP. THERE ARE STILL VOTES TO WIN. STILL A LOT OF TIME TO GO. - WE ARE GONNA PICK UP SOME MORE HOARDING DISCUSSION WHEN WE COME BACK TO YOU GUYS FOR OUR SECOND PANEL. BUT FOR THE MOMENT, THANK YOU SO MUCH, JORDAN, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH, LARA. WE'LL SEE YOU SOON. A MURI AKE NEI ` COMING UP NEXT ` AN EXCLUSIVE ANNOUNCEMENT FROM IMMIGRATION MINISTER ANDREW LITTLE. PLUS, MINOR PARTIES IN PARLIAMENT REVEAL THEIR COALITION BOTTOM LINES. - HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK. IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS SINCE THOSE UNFORGETTABLE SCENES WHEN THE TALIBAN TOOK BACK AFGHANISTAN. 1500 AFGHANS ARRIVED HERE ON EVACUEE VISAS BECAUSE THEIR WORK FOR OUR GOVERNMENT PUT THEM AT RISK. BUT WHILE THEY'RE BUILDING LIVES IN NEW ZEALAND, SOME SAY THEY WON'T FIND PEACE UNTIL THEIR FAMILIES ARE SAFE HERE AS WELL. - MY NAME IS SHARIFA AHMADI, AND HERE I LIVE WITH MY HUSBAND AND A 1� YEARS DAUGHTER, AND I'M EXPECTING THE SECOND BABY AS WELL. IT IS ONE YEAR AND EIGHT MONTHS THAT WE CAME TO NEW ZEALAND. LIKE, WE WERE IN KABUL. SUDDENLY, WE HEAR THE SHOTGUN, AND THEY SAID TALIBAN JUST TAKE KABUL. WE SAW THAT THE TALIBAN ` THEY ARE ON THEIR VEHICLES, HAVING THE GUNS, AND THAT WAS A DARK, DARK DAY IN MY LIFE. FROM THAT DAY ONWARDS, THE TIME WHICH I LIVED IN AFGHANISTAN, IT WAS COMPLETELY DARKNESS. IT WAS NIGHTMARE. WE COULDN'T SLEEP THAT NIGHT. SO EARLY MORNING, WE JUST HAD OUR OWN CLOTHES AND A BACKPACK, AND WE WENT TO THE AIRPORT. WE SAW THAT LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE SITTING ON THE GROUND. THE U.S. TROOPS ARE ALREADY THERE AND TALIBAN MILITARY IS THIS SIDE. AND THEY SAID, 'YOU JUST SIT HERE AMONG THE OTHER PEOPLE.' I SAY, 'WHO WILL TAKE ALL OF US?' - THE FIRST GROUP OF NEW ZEALAND CITIZENS AND THEIR FAMILIES, ALONGSIDE SOME OTHER VISA HOLDERS, HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFULLY EVACUATED FROM AFGHANISTAN AND WILL ARRIVE IN AUCKLAND THIS AFTERNOON. - I GOT A MESSAGE FROM A CO-WORKER ` 'YOU ARE ELIGIBLE.' WE FILL THE APPLICATIONS, WE SEND THEM BACK. BUT IT TOOK ONE AND A HALF MONTHS. WE DIDN'T HEAR BACK FROM THEM, AND FINALLY, WE JUST EMAILED. 'THIS IS A VERY TOUGH SITUATION. WHY ARE YOU WAITING SO MUCH?' THEN WE GOT A VISA. I BECAME SO HAPPY. I JUST JUMPED. I MOVED AROUND THE HOUSE. LIKE, I WAS SHOUTING. I WAS HUGGING MY HUSBAND, AND WE SAID, 'FINALLY WE GOT A WAY TO GO OUT.' AT LEAST WE WILL NOT HAVE A FEAR OF BEING ALIVE OVER THERE. SO MAYBE WE'LL HAVE A PEACEFUL LIFE OVER THERE, AND MY BABY WILL GO TO SCHOOL, BECAUSE IF SHE WILL LIVE IN AFGHANISTAN, THERE IS NO SCHOOL FOR HER. SO, LOOK, THE FRESH WEATHER, GOOD PEOPLE, EVERYTHING IS HERE. JUST THE FAMILY IS NOT HERE, WHICH THEY ARE IN TROUBLE. YEAH, WE FEEL IT'S OUR HOME. IT'S SAFE. MY NAME IS MOHAMMAD ZUBAIR KARIMI, AND CURRENTLY, I'M LIVING IN AUCKLAND. I'M A PERMANENT RESIDENT OF NEW ZEALAND. I CAME FROM AFGHANISTAN IN NOVEMBER 2021. I WAS WORKING AS AN ASSOCIATE ATTORNEY IN A LAW FIRM THAT WAS A LAW FIRM WORKED FOR THE NATO COMPANIES, AND OUR WORK WAS MOSTLY WITH THE INTERNATIONAL AGENCIES. YEAH, THE LIFE WAS VERY COMFORTABLE, AND WE GOT A NORMAL LIFE THERE. I'VE GOT MY OWN HOUSE IN AFGHANISTAN, AND IT WAS NEWLY BUILDED BEFORE THE TALIBAN CAME. ALL THE ROADS WERE CLOSED. THE CAR, THE TRAFFIC WAS THERE, EVERYONE WAS RUNNING ON THE ROAD. EVERYONE WAS SHOUTING, 'THE TALIBAN CAME, TALIBAN CAME!' MY EMPLOYER SAID THAT 'I THINK IT'S DONE. 'TODAY MIGHT BE THE END OF OUR WORK.' ONE OF MY COLLEAGUE, WHOM SHE WAS COOKING FOR US, AND SHE WAS CRYING, SAYING THAT 'I FEEL THAT WE WILL NEVER SEE AGAIN EACH OTHER.' AND THAT HAPPENED. I DIDN'T SEE HER AGAIN AFTER THAT DAY. FROM THE MOMENT THAT WE LANDED TO NEW ZEALAND, I WAS THINKING THAT I AM IN A DESERT... ALONE. A FEELING OF LONELINESS. I'M VERY MUCH THANKFUL FROM THE NEW ZEALAND GOVERNMENT AS A WHOLE, NEW ZEALANDERS SPECIFICALLY, THAT THEY ACCEPT US AS THEIR OWN PEOPLE. I'M VERY THANKFUL. I STILL WANT TO SEE MY SISTERS. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT MY SISTER IS STUCK IN AFGHANISTAN, AND SHE IS SUFFERING FROM THE SITUATION IN THERE BECAUSE OF ME. FAMILY UNIFICATION IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ME. IT'S NOT ONLY PHYSICAL SETTLING SOMEWHERE, BUT MENTALLY, YOU HAVE TO BE SETTLED SOMEWHERE. - WELL, SENIOR REPORTER LAURA WALTERS WHO'S BEEN WORKING ON THE STORY IS HERE WITH AN EXCLUSIVE ANNOUNCEMENT FROM IMMIGRATION MINISTER ANDREW LITTLE. WHAT'S HAPPENED SINCE YOU FILMED THAT? - IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS SINCE THESE 1500 EVACUEES CAME TO NEW ZEALAND AND JUST NOW THE GOVERNMENT HAS DECIDED TO GIVE THEM A PATHWAY TO BRING THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS TO NEW ZEALAND. THEY HAVE OPENED THE REFUGEE FAMILY SUPPORT CATEGORY TO THESE PEOPLE SO EVENTUALLY THEIR FAMILY WILL BE ABLE TO SETTLE HERE. - SO YOU'VE BEEN TALKING TO THE MINISTER. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT EXACTLY WHAT HE HAD TO SAY. IT WAS PRETTY APPARENT THAT BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T REFUGEES IN THE FORMAL SENSE, THEY WEREN'T GETTING THE RIGHTS AND BENEFITS THAT OTHER REFUGEES GET, AND WE AGREED WITH THEM. WE THOUGHT ACTUALLY THAT ISN'T QUITE RIGHT, SO WE HAVE OPENED UP THAT CATEGORY OF VISA SO THEY CAN GET FAMILY MEMBERS OUT. - WOW. LAURA, WHAT'S BEEN THE REACTION FROM SHARIFA AND MOHAMMAD AND THE REST OF THE AFGHAN COMMUNITY THAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING WITH? - THE GOVERNMENT HAS JUST MADE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT, THIS DECISION. THE NEWS IS STILL FILTERING OUT TO THE WIDER COMMUNITY. I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO THOSE PEOPLE I SPOKE TO. IN THE CASE OF SHARIFA, FOR EXAMPLE, JUST LAST MONTH, HER BROTHER WAS STABBED ON THE STREET IN BAMIAN PROVINCE, ESSENTIALLY LEFT FOR DEAD, SO SHE FEELS THAT DANGER TO HER FAMILY IS INCREDIBLY REAL, SO WHEN I SHARED WITH HER THIS DECISION, SHE SAID IT IS GREAT NEWS, AND IT WILL CHANGE THEIR LIVES. - IT WILL CHANGE THEIR LIVES, BUT IT IS NOT A QUICK FIX, IS IT? - NO, THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT BACKLOG IN THESE TYPES OF VISAS, SO WHILE THEY HAVE SOME CERTAINTY THAT THEIR FAMILY WILL EVENTUALLY BE ABLE TO COME, IT COULD TAKE ANOTHER TWO OR THREE YEARS. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HOLD ON FOR A LITTLE WHILE. - LAURA WALTERS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPORTING ON THIS ISSUE. SO THAT'S A RELIEF FOR THE FAMILIES. E WHAI AKE NEI ` WE'RE IN PARLIAMENT ASKING THE MINOR PARTY LEADERS ABOUT THEIR COALITION BOTTOM-LINES. PLUS, WHICH PARTY LEADER IS A FORMER TEEN PARENT WHO KNOWS HOW TO SURF? YOU GUESSED IT ` IT'S NEARLY TIME FOR BACKSTORY. - HOKI MAI ANO. WELCOME BACK. WE ALL KNOW THE ELECTION'S GOING TO BE TIGHT. NEW POLLS CONFIRMING THAT SMALLER PARTIES WILL FEEL EMBOLDENED TO PUSH HARD FOR POLICY WINS AS THE VOTE FALLS AWAY FROM BOTH NATIONAL AND LABOUR. SO WHAT ARE THOSE PARTIES' NON-NEGOTIABLES? AND HOW HARD ARE THEY PREPARED TO GO IF THEY DON'T GET THE DEALS THEY WANT? USING OUR IMAGINATION AND SOME OLD FOOTAGE, LET'S SAY THIS GUY'S DONE ALL RIGHT, CONSIDERING THE MESSY RUN-UP BUT NEEDS FRIENDS, AND COMPARED TO THE LAST LEADER, THIS GUY HAS DONE BETTER BUT ALSO NEEDS A FRIEND. AND THESE THREE ARE FEELING BULLISH AND READY TO PUSH HARD FOR POLICY WINS. SO WHAT COULD THOSE BOTTOM LINES BE? - THE RIGHTS OF VICTIMS OF CRIME, THE STERN MEASUREMENT ON KIDS SHOWING UP, THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT, A SERIOUS RE-EVALUATION OF WHAT THE TREATY MEANS. - CLIMATE ACTION IS CERTAINLY ONE OF THE TOP THREE, ALONG WITH ENDING POVERTY AND INEQUALITY AND PROTECTING AND RESTORING OUR NATIVE WILDERNESSES AND WILDLIFE. - PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST RADICAL TAX REFORMS AND TRANSFORMATIONS THAT THIS GOVERNMENT HAS EVER SEEN. AND SO, ABSOLUTELY, WE WILL BE TAKING THAT INTO THE NEGOTIATIONS. - AND WE KNOW THOSE NEGOTIATIONS CAN TAKE TIME. 2017 ` ALMOST FOUR WEEKS. 1996 ` MMP'S DEBUT, THE SAME MAN TOOK EIGHT WEEKS. BUT WHAT IF THE MAJOR PARTY, NATIONAL OR LABOUR, WON'T AGREE TO THOSE BOTTOM LINES? IT WILL MEAN A MINORITY GOVERNMENT WITH MINOR PARTIES SITTING ON WHAT'S CALLED THE CROSSBENCHES. - MINOR PARTIES MAY SAY, 'LOOK, WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW GOVERNMENTS TO FORM 'AND GIVE THOSE VOTES TO ALLOW THEM TO RUN THE COUNTRY, 'BUT NOT ACTUALLY JOIN THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT GIVE THEM 'THE VOTES ON ANYTHING BEYOND THAT,' WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULDN'T HAVE THE VOTES IN THE HOUSE TO PASS THEIR ORDINARY LEGISLATION. - SO ESSENTIALS LIKE THE BUDGET WOULD BE SUPPORTED, AND EVERYTHING ELSE WOULD BE UP FOR DEBATE. - AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE QUITE HAPPY TO CONTINUE FROM THE CROSSBENCHES. - IT'S CERTAINLY THE LAST OPTION. I MEAN, IT IS` I MEAN, HONESTLY, YOUR ABILITY TO AFFECT CHANGE WITHOUT BEING IN GOVERNMENT IS DRAMATICALLY REDUCED. IF THE NATS DON'T WANT TO PLAY BALL, WE'RE NOT GOING TO SELL OUT FOR THE BAUBLES AND MAKE BAD POLICY. LIFE'S TOO SHORT FOR THAT. - BUT SHOULD THEY DO THAT? UNITED FUTURE'S PETER DUNNE NEGOTIATED FIVE CONFIDENCE AND SUPPLY AGREEMENTS. HIS ADVICE ` STAY OFF THE CROSSBENCHES. - IT SOUNDS ALL GOOD AND NOBLE, BUT IN REALITY, THEY WILL HAVE LITTLE INFLUENCE. THEIR ONLY INFLUENCE WILL BE TO SAY YES OR NO. THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO ADVANCE TOO MANY OF THEIR OWN POLICY INITIATIVES. BUT THE MINOR PARTIES STILL HAVE ONE MAJOR PLAY ` BLOCKING ANY VOTE ON CONFIDENCE OR SUPPLY, LIKE THE BUDGET. - IF A GOVERNMENT CANNOT WIN ONE OF THE CONFIDENCE AND SUPPLY VOTES, THE ABSOLUTE VOTES THEY HAVE TO WIN IN ORDER TO PROVE THEIR RIGHT TO GOVERN, THEN THEY MUST RESIGN ` STRAIGHT AWAY. - WOULD YOU BLOCK A BUDGET? COULD IT GO THAT FAR, OR WOULD YOU JUST RULE THAT OUT? - YEAH, IT'S DEFINITELY` ALL OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE. - ALL OPTIONS ON THE TABLE? - YEP. SO YOU ASK, 'WOULD WE EVER FORCE A SNAP ELECTION?' THAT IS ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT THAT YOU WOULD AVOID AT ALL COST. - IT HAS HAPPENED TWICE. 1951 ` SIDNEY HOLLAND WENT TO THE POLLS OVER THE DOCKWORKERS STRIKE. - A QUICK CAMPAIGN STRATEGY. - AND THEN THERE'S THE 1984 SCHNAPPS ELECTION, SO-CALLED, BECAUSE ROBERT MULDOON APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN DRINKING. - THAT DOESN'T GIVE YOU MUCH TIME TO RUN UP TO AN ELECTION, PRIME MINISTER. - DOESN'T GIVE MY OPPONENTS MUCH TIME TO RUN UP TO ELECTION, DOES IT? - YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE TO BE PRETTY TOXIC IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY COLLAPSE A GOVERNMENT, AND I CANNOT FORESEE THAT. - IN TERMS OF THE BUDGET, I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD BE RECKLESS IN THE WAY WE DO THINGS. BUT THERE MUST BE CONDITIONS AS ACCORDING TO OUR MOVEMENT TO ENSURE THAT THAT ISN'T JEOPARDISED. - SO A SNAP ELECTION UNLIKELY, EVEN IF THERE IS A MINORITY GOVERNMENT. BUT THERE IS ONE OTHER SCENARIO THAT COULD FORCE KIWIS BACK TO THE VOTING BOOTH SOON AFTER OCTOBER 14 ` A HUNG PARLIAMENT. - SO YOU COULD HAVE LABOUR, GREENS, MAORI PARTY HAVING 60 VOTES, NATIONAL, ACT HAVING 60 VOTES. AND IF YOU HAVE A 60/60 SPLIT IN THAT WAY, NO ONE HAS A MAJORITY. - ONE POLL IN APRIL PREDICTED JUST THAT. THE TALBOT MILLS POLL PUT BOTH BLOCKS EVENLY SPLIT. WITH WAKA-JUMPING LEGISLATION PREVENTING EVEN ONE MP DEFECTING, THAT COULD MEAN PARLIAMENT WOULD HAVE TO BE DISSOLVED. - AND THE ONLY OPTION IS TO HAVE A NEW ELECTION AND SEE IF A NEW ELECTION PRODUCES A DIFFERENT ARRANGEMENT IN THE HOUSE. - ANOTHER ELECTION, OR PERHAPS THE SLOGAN FOR THAT ONE SHOULD BE... - JACINDA ARDERN: LET'S DO THIS! - ...ALL AGAIN. WILL WE HAVE TO DO IT ALL AGAIN? WELCOME BACK TO OUR PANEL ` DR LARA GREAVES AND JORDAN WILLIAMS. LOTS OF JOSTLING FOR POSITION. HOW LIKELY IS IT WE WILL HAVE A MINORITY GOVERNMENT? - THANK YOU FOR COVERING THAT BECAUSE THAT IS SOMETHING OF BEEN TRYING TO ADD TO THE DEBATE. UNDER MMP, GOVERNMENTS HAVE JUST BEEN MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG AND FIGURING OUT WHAT WILL WORK. COALITION IS ONLY ONE POSSIBILITY, BUT WE HAVE ALSO SEEN OVER OUR HISTORY OF MMP DIFFERENT KIND OF INNOVATIVE ARRANGEMENTS. UNDER THE JOHN KEY GOVERNMENT, IT ENHANCED CONFIDENCE AND SUPPLY, WE ARE KIND OF MAKING IT UP AS WE GO, RULING IN AND OUT IS ALL FINE AND GOOD UNTIL IT IS BETWEEN` EITHER GO WITH THEM IN SOME WEIRD AND NEW INNOVATIVE ARRANGEMENT, OR GO BACK TO THE POLLS. MOST PEOPLE IF YOU LOOK AT INTERNATIONAL EXAMPLES ARE NOT GOING TO WANT TO GO BACK TO THE POLLS. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE THE PARTY THAT CAUSES ANOTHER ELECTION. - THAT COULD CREATE VOTER BACKLASH. - IT WILL BE DEVASTATING. THE LEVEL OF TRUST IN POLITICIANS AND VOTING, PEOPLE WOULDN'T WANT TO WASTE ANOTHER SATURDAY. - (LAUGHS) - THEY WOULDN'T. - THERE IS A LOT OF JOSTLING GOING ON. ONE OF THEM INVOLVING WINSTON PETERS. THIS WEEK WE HAVE SEEN DAVID SEYMOUR RULE HIM OUT. ACT HAS TAKEN OUT A BILLBOARD IN THE CAPITAL SAYING, 'DON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN.' WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT? - IT'S BIZARRE. MY OWN STAFF IN WELLINGTON THOUGHT IT WAS NEW ZEALAND FIRST POSTER. IT HAS A PICTURE OF A JOVIAL, LAUGHING WINSTON PETERS, AND OF COURSE IN THE ACT WORLD, IT IS 'DON'T GET FOOLED BY THE GUY THAT PUT JACINDA ARDERN IN POWER.' - SO IT'S NOT OBVIOUS ENOUGH? - NO, IT'S NOT UNTIL YOU SEE... FOR THE AVERAGE NEW ZEALANDER, THAT IS WINSTON SAYING THAT. I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE IN THIS, IN 2011 FOR THE VOTE FOR CHANGE CAMPAIGN, WE DID HUGE BILLBOARDS THAT SAID 'TRUST MMP?' WITH MR PETERS HOLDING THE 'NO' SIGN. ALL THE FEEDBACK THAT WE GOT IS THAT THEY THOUGHT IT WAS ADVERTISING WINSTON PETERS. WHO IS DOING ACT'S BILLBOARDS? THEY NEED TO BE MARKED DOWN. - HOW IS NEW ZEALAND FIRST TRACKING IN THE POLLS? - THEY ARE MAKING A COMEBACK IN THE POLLS. ONE OF THE THINGS TO NOTE IS THAT THESE ARE THE OPTIMAL CONDITIONS FOR POPULISM. IF YOU LOOK AT INTERNATIONAL EXAMPLES, THERE IS THIS INEQUALITY BUT PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT INEQUALITY. THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING NEW ZEALAND IS ON THE WRONG TRACK, AND THAT IS CREATING THOSE PERFECT CONDITIONS FOR POPULISM TO THRIVE. WINSTON PETERS IS HAPPY TO TAKE THAT UP. - ONE OF THOSE POLLS WAS THE TAXPAYER POLL. THERE WAS ALSO ANOTHER POLL AS WELL REGARDING RULING WINSTON IN OR OUT. NATIONAL IS NOT RULING HIM OUT OF THE MOMENT. DOES THAT CREATE A PROBLEM IN TERMS OF COALITION NEGOTIATIONS? - I THINK CHRISTOPHER LUXON HAS A DIFFICULT DECISION TO MAKE, AND WE'VE SEEN ON RULING OUT THE MAORI PARTY HE WAS A BIT LATE. THIS IS WHAT MADE JOHN KEY SO POWERFUL. HE WAS COMFORTABLE IN HIS OWN SKIN, WILLING AND ABLE TO TAKE RISKS. LAST MONTH'S TAXPAYER UNION POLL HAD A HUNG PARLIAMENT. THIS MONTH ` YES, IT WOULD BE A ACT-NATIONAL GOVERNMENT, BUT YOU NEED JUST 0.1 FOR ACT TO SLIP OR NEW ZEALAND FIRST TO GO UP. - SO TIGHT. - ON THURSDAY'S POLL, WINSTON PETERS WOULD'VE HELD THE BALANCE OF POWER, MR LUXON WOULD NEED BOTH SEYMOUR AND CONFIDENCE VOTES FROM WINSTON PETERS. - DOES DATA TELL US WHAT NATIONAL SHOULD DO IN THAT SITUATION? OR IS IT JUST A POLITICAL DECISION? - WE DO LOOK BACK TO THE ELECTION STUDY, VOTERS TO PREFER THAT THE PARTY THAT THEY ARE VOTING FOR NOTE WHO THEY WON'T WORK WITH. PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW WHO IS COMING ALONG WITH THEM; AND FOR THE MINOR PARTIES ` WHO'LL THEY'LL WORK WITH. IF YOU LOOK BACK TO 2017, THE MAJORITY OF WINSTON PETERS' VOTERS WANTED THEM TO GO WITH NATIONAL, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS THAT PEOPLE ARE PUT FORTH. - THAT'S ACT'S LINE. - LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OTHER DATA. THIS IS LABOUR'S SHOWING IN THE POLLS. THEY ARE DROPPING QUITE A BIT. - YEAH. AND AGAIN, ALWAYS LOOK AT THE TREND LINE. THAT TREND LINE HAS BEEN A DROP OVER TIME. THAT'S ALL WE CAN REALLY SAY ABOUT THAT. IT'S LIKE WATCHING THIS TREND OF THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO DON'T FOLLOW POLITICS, THE HOARDINGS ARE UP AND THEY'RE GETTING MORE ENGAGED NOW. THAT IS THING TO NOW WATCH WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT TREND LINE. - IT IS A BIG POLICY LAUNCH FOR LABOUR ON SUNDAY WITH THEIR TAX POLICY. HOW CRUCIAL IS THAT FOR THEM? AS YOU SEE IN POLLS, THEY ARE DIPPING. - IT LOOKS TO BE LIKELY THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME SORT OF CHANGES AT THE UPPER END OF THE INCOME TAX SYSTEM LIKELY GST OFF FRUIT AND VEGETABLES. - IS THAT ENOUGH? - I DON'T THINK SO. ON THE OTHER HAND, GRANT ROBERTSON IS ALWAYS KNOWN AS PULLING RABBITS OUT OF THE HAT. I CAN ALREADY DETECT A LITTLE BIT OF COMPLACENCY ON THE CENTRE-RIGHT. IN 2005, THIS FAR OUT FROM THE ELECTION, IT LOOKED LIKE DON BRASH WAS GOING TO BE PRIME MINISTER. THAT RABBIT WAS OUT OF THE HAT. IT COULD WELL BE LIKE 2005 WHERE LABOUR GO VERY NASTY ON THE NATIONAL PARTY'S LEADER. POLITICS IS EVENTS. - LET'S SEE IF THEY DO THAT. - WHEN YOU'VE GOT SUCH A HIGH PROPORTION OF NEW ZEALANDERS DECIDING RIGHT AT THE LAST MINUTE... - GOOD POINT. LARA, REMIND US HOW MUCH OF THE ELECTION MAKES IT UP ON THE DAY. - JUST A FEW PERCENT. IT'S THOSE FEW WEEKS FROM ABOUT NOW WHEN PEOPLE VIEW THE CAMPAIGN. IN THAT LAST WEEK, IT'S NORMALLY NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE. IT COULD BE A WEIRD ELECTION. - YOU KNOW THE DATA, BUT PETER DUNNE WITH THAT WORM THREE DAYS OUT FROM THE ELECTION WENT FROM A ONE-MAN BAND TO BRINGING EIGHT NO-HOPERS INTO PARLIAMENT. - IT VARIES A LOT OVER DIFFERENT ELECTIONS. WE HAVE SO MUCH ROAD TO RUN. - WE DO, AND I'M GOING TO CUT OFF YOUR ROAD RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE ARE OUT OF TIME. BUT WE'VE GOT A LOT MORE ROAD TO RUN. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. KIA PAKU WHAKATA TATOU. STAY WITH US, WE'RE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. - WELCOME BACK TO BACKSTORY, WHERE WE VISIT THE HOMES AND WHANAU OF OUR MPS, CHECK OUT THEIR FAMILY PHOTOS AND, IF WE'RE LUCKY, SEE THEM IN A WHOLE NEW LIGHT. TODAY, SHE'S A FAMILIAR LEADER IN PARLIAMENT, BUT SHE'S ALSO BEEN A TEEN PARENT, A SURFER, AN ENVIRONMENTALIST AND A DEPUTY MAYOR. THIS MORNING, TE PATI MAORI CO-LEADER DEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER SHARES HER BACKSTORY. - SO PATEA TO ME IS WHERE I'M THE MOST GROUNDED. IT'S WHERE I WAS RAISED AND BORN FROM AND WHERE I'LL ALSO DIE AND GO BACK TO. 7A HADFIELD STREET. HI, MUM. - HI. - I WAS AN ABSOLUTE IDYLLIC CHILD, JUST LIKE I AM AS AN ADULT. (LAUGHS) I THINK I WAS SPOILT BECAUSE I WAS BROUGHT UP IN A THREE-GENERATIONAL HOME. I WAS THE FIRST CHILD, THE FIRST GRANDCHILD. SO I DON'T REMEMBER FEELING ANYTHING OTHER THAN REAL LOVE AND TREATED LIKE A PRINCESS. I WASN'T RAISED KNOWING OUR HISTORY. I WASN'T RAISED THINKING WE WERE ANY DIFFERENT. EVERY NOW AND THEN I'D HEAR SOMEBODY CALL US MEDITERRANEAN RATHER THAN MAORI OR... I WAS QUITE CLEAR THAT MY GENETIC MAKEUP WAS DIFFERENT TO MUM'S FAMILY'S, BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST DIDN'T REALLY TAKE NOTICE OF THAT. BUT WHEN I WENT TO SCHOOL AT BOARDING SCHOOL AT NEW PLYMOUTH GIRLS' HIGH, I STARTED TO NOTICE THAT ` WHEN I WANTED TO LEARN MAORI, IT WAS IN THE RESOURCE ROOM. WE DIDN'T HAVE OUR OWN CLASSROOM. SO I THINK THE STEREOTYPING SORT OF CAME TO ME AS I LEFT THE BOSOM OF THIS SAFETY, AND WE JUST THOUGHT EVERYBODY SPOKE TWO LANGUAGES IN THEIR HOMES. BUT ACTUALLY, THIS HARMONISATION, THE WAY THAT WE WERE BROUGHT UP IN OUR COMMUNITY WAS VERY RARE. AND MUM AND DAD LIVED THAT EXAMPLE. SO THEY WERE ALWAYS COMMUNITY SUPPORTERS. THEY WERE ADULT TERTIARY LEARNERS. AND SO FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE, WE WERE TAUGHT TO ENJOY LEARNING. MUM, AT 46, HAD AN ANEURYSM, WHICH CREATED A STROKE. AND SO MUM HAD TO GIVE UP HER CAREER. THEY TOLD US THAT MUM WOULD BE A VEGETABLE, ACTUALLY, AND THAT SHE WOULD NEVER WALK, TALK, WHATEVER. AND GOD, SHE PROVED THEM WRONG. SEE? AGAIN, SHE'S TAUGHT US THAT ART OF PUSHING BACK, AND DON'T LET PEOPLE TELL YOU WHAT YOU CAN OR CANNOT DO. AND IF THEY TELL YOU YOU CAN'T DO SOMETHING, THEN PROVE THEM BLOODY WRONG. - MY WIFE, SHE'S THE STRENGTH IN THE FAMILY. I'M ONLY JUST A PROVIDER. - (LAUGHS) - AND THESE ARE MY SIBLINGS. THAT'S MY KOKO. THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON TO ME AS I WAS GROWING UP WAS MY KOKO. HE WAS MY WORLD. I'D GO LOOKING BACK TO WHAT HE ALWAYS MADE ME FEEL, WHICH WAS MY OWN VALUE AND KNOW MY OWN WORTH AND SEE MYSELF THROUGH THE EYES THAT HE DID. HE'S ALSO TAUGHT ME TO BE A REALLY GREAT NAN. MY KOKO WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON. SORRY, MUM AND DAD, YOU ARE TOO. AT ABOUT 19, REALLY JUST SHY OF 20, I GOT HAPU. HAD MY OLDEST DAUGHTER, JAMIE. SHE'S BEAUTIFUL. AND TYPICAL IN A YOUNG RELATIONSHIP, THINGS DIDN'T GO WELL. I GUESS WHEN YOU'VE LIVED SUCH A SHELTERED, PROTECTED LIFE, IT WAS A REALLY HUMBLING EXPERIENCE TO HAVE TO BE AN INDEPENDENT MUM. AT STAGES I REMEMBER WORKING THREE JOBS AND COULDN'T AFFORD A CAR AND WOULD BIKE HER TO KOHANGA. AND SHE WAS PROBABLY ABOUT AS BIG AS I WAS AT 3. SO, YEAH, SO... AND I THINK THAT'S FORMED A LOT OF MY VIEWS ON DIFFERENT TIMES THAT WE NEED TO HAVE SUPPORT AND WE NEED TO HAVE EMPATHY TOWARDS THINGS NOT GOING THE WAY THAT YOU PLAN OUT TO BE. I HAVE AN AMAZING TANE, NEIL, AND BETWEEN US WE HAVE THREE CHILDREN. SO MY OLDEST DAUGHTER, JAMIE, WHO HAS FIVE MOKOPUNA. MY MIDDLE DAUGHTER, HANNAH, HAS TWINS, SO SHE HAS FOUR BOYS. AND MY YOUNGEST, MY BABY, HE'S 19. SO I HAVE NINE MOKOPUNA, BUT ONLY ONE GIRL. AND FUNNILY ENOUGH, THEY'VE NICKNAMED HER MINI DEBBIE, WHICH I THINK IS GREAT FOR HER FUTURE. (LAUGHS) UM, SO HOW COME NO ONE'S AT WORK? - NAH. DAY OFF TODAY. DAY OFF. - SURF WAS CALLING TODAY. - ALL THE KIDS IN PATEA HAVE TO SURF. ALL THEIR YOUNGER SIBLINGS AND NIECES AND NEPHEWS, COUSINS WILL BE IN THE SURF. SO BEGINNERS IN THE MIDDLE, AND THEN INTERMEDIATE AND SENIORS ON THE SOUTH AND NORTH SIDE. I COULDN'T BE ON A SHORT BOARD LIKE THIS. MY BOY'S, LIKE, ABOUT 9FT LONG. MY SURFING'S IS REALLY GOOD. SO WE'VE SPENT ALL OUR SUMMERS DOWN AT THE` ACTUALLY SUMMER AND WINTER DOWN AT THE BEACH. ALL OUR BEST FRIENDS WERE OUR COUSINS. WE WERE RAISED AROUND ALL OUR NANNIES AND KOKOS AND AUNTIES AND UNCLES, AND EVERYBODY ALWAYS KNEW YOU WERE UP TO AND WOULD GO AND TELL YOUR PARENTS. SO YEAH. NAH, THAT WAS AWESOME. IT'S A REALLY GOOD PLACE TO GROW UP. THERE WAS A PERIOD OF MY TIME WHEN I WAS ALSO DEPUTY MAYOR IN MY LOCAL` SOUTH TARANAKI DISTRICT COUNCIL, AND THAT WAS NOT BECAUSE I WAS NECESSARILY THE BEST PERSON. IT WAS BECAUSE I WAS THE ONE MOST AVAILABLE AND MAYBE PALATABLE TO GET ELECTED. HURI RAUNA I TENEI WHARE, TENA TATOU, TENA TATOU KATOA. (APPLAUSE) THERE'S A WHOLE GROUP, A REALLY SMALL COHORT OF OUR SOCIETY, WHO ARE REALLY SCARED THAT, AS MAORI AND AS OUR CULTURE GETS STRONGER AND WE RESUME OR CLAIM OUR ROLLBACK UNDER TE TIRITI, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE SOMETHING OR WE'RE GOING TO TAKE SOMETHING FROM THEM. AND THAT FEAR IS MANIFESTING. BECAUSE I'VE COME FROM A STRONG IRISH MUM AND A MAORI DAD AND I'VE WATCHED THE PARTNERSHIP IN THE WAY THEY'VE NEGOTIATED THINGS FOR OUR UPBRINGING ALL OUR LIVES, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT A UNITY OF STRENGTH. SO I THINK WE HAVEN'T TALKED ENOUGH. I THINK FOR A LOT OF ME I ACTUALLY FEEL REAL AROHA BECAUSE I THINK THAT THERE'S BEEN A SAD NEGLECT OF OUR OWN NATIONHOOD AND UNDERSTANDING OF HOW IT IS THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AFTER EACH OTHER. - DEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER THERE. KOINA NGA KORERO MO TENEI RA ` THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING. NGA MIHI NUI, SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEKEND. CAPTIONS BY JESSIE PURU AND SAM BAKER. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. 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