ATA MARIE E HOA MA, I'M REBECCA WRIGHT. AND I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. E NGA IWI O TE MOTU, NAU MAI KI NEWSHUB NATION. COMING UP ` IS THERE A PATH BACK FOR LABOUR? THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER IS HERE FOR HER PRE-ELECTION INTERVIEW. CHASING THE UNICORN ` WHAT WOMEN WANT TO SEE FROM OUR POLITICIANS, AND WHY IT MATTERS SO MUCH. AND THIS WEEK WE BRING YOU A POLITICAL LOVE STORY ON BACKSTORY. CAPTIONS BY KITTY WASASALA AND KATE MCCULLOUGH. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 IT'S BEEN A BRUISING WEEK IN THE POLLS FOR THE GOVERNMENT ` A MAJOR POLL REVEALING LABOUR'S SUPPORT HAS SLUMPED TO 29% AND THE PRIME MINISTER'S POPULARITY HAS TAKEN A HIT TOO. IT CAME AFTER LABOUR RELEASED A SLEW OF POLICY, BUT SO FAR AT LEAST IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE RESONATING WITH VOTERS. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER CARMEL SEPULONI IS HERE TO TALK POLICY AND THE POLLS. WELCOME TO THE PROGRAMME. KIA ORA. KIA ORA. I HEARD THIS WEEK THAT THE PRIME MINISTER IN THE WAKE OF THAT POLL CALLED THE GOVERNMENT THE UNDERDOGS. WE ARE THE UNDERDOG. CLEARLY, AT THE MOMENT, WE ARE BEHIND IN THE POLLS, BUT THEY CAN SHIFT. I'VE BEEN AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT POLLS GO UP AND DOWN, BUT WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS WHAT HAPPENS ON OCTOBER 14th. THAT'S JUST SPIN, ISN'T IT? YOU CAN'T BE THE UNDERDOGS. YOU ARE THE MAJORITY GOVERNMENT. YOU ARE THE BIG DOG IN PARLIAMENT. IF WE ARE BEHIND, WE ARE THE UNDERDOG. YOU HAVE THE POWER, YOU HAVE THE PEOPLE. THAT'S JUST SPIN. IT'S NOT SPIN. IF WE ARE BEHIND, WE ARE THE UNDERDOG. SO, WE ARE UP FOR A FIGHT THOUGH, AND KNOW IT WILL TAKE A FIGHT TO TAKE OUT THIS ELECTION. IT DOES FEEL LIKE, THIS WEEK, IN THE WAKE OF THAT POLL, THAT LABOUR HAS REALLY LOST THE ROOM. THOSE NUMBERS CAME AFTER THE RELEASE OF THREE POLICIES IN ONE WEEK, BUT THEY AREN'T RESONATING WITH VOTERS. I THINK IT'S THE PACKAGE WE GO INTO THE ELECTION WITH THAT WILL BE REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE VOTERS. YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED A BUMP, THOUGH. I THINK MOST NEW ZEALANDERS ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THE FACT WE HAVE AN ELECTION COMING UP. I'VE BEEN ASKED BY MULTIPLE PEOPLE THIS WEEK WHEN THE ELECTION IS. SO PEOPLE ARE JUST STARTING TO PAY ATTENTION NOW. THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THE TRACK RECORD, WHAT POLITICAL PARTIES ARE OFFERING, AND AT WHAT IS AT STAKE. AND THERE IS A LOT AT STAKE THIS ELECTION. WE HAVE SEVEN WEEKS FROM TODAY, AND IT IS GOING TO BE A VERY HARD-RUN CAMPAIGN. WITH THOSE THREE POLICIES, THOSE ARE THREE HIGH-PROFILE POLICIES, AND PEOPLE ARE TUNED OUT. THAT'S GOT TO BE WORRYING FOR YOU. YOU WOULD HAVE EXPECTED A BUMP AFTER THOSE ` GST, PAID PARENTAL LEAVE` I THINK PEOPLE DON'T FEEL THAT THEY ARE REAL AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BECAUSE THEY ARE POLICIES THAT HAVE JUST BEEN ANNOUNCED, THEY ARE THINGS WE WILL DO WHEN, IF WE GET RE-ELECTED. PEOPLE DON'T FEEL THE IMPACT OF THEM RIGHT NOW. PEOPLE ARE WEIGHING UP WHAT POLITICAL PARTIES ARE OFFERING IN THE NEXT SEVEN WEEKS; AND WHAT IS AT STAKE, WHAT WOULD BE CUT, IF, SAY, NATIONAL DID GET THEIR TAX CUTS IN, AND WHAT ARE THEY WILLING TO SACRIFICE FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHERE DO YOU THINK THOSE VOTERS ARE GOING, WHO ARE LEAVING LABOUR, AT LEAST FOR THE MOMENT, WHERE DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING AND WHY? I DON'T THINK WE CAN SAY PEOPLE HAVE LEFT LABOUR. THEY'RE STILL JUST POLLS. THEY CERTAINLY HAVE FROM THE START OF THE YEAR, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER. I THINK IT IS FAIR TO SAY THAT WE HAD A MASSIVE WIN AT THE LAST ELECTION. THAT WAS OFF THE BACK OF COVID, AND THE TRUST WE HAD BUILT UP AS A POLITICAL PARTY, AND JACINDA'S LEADERSHIP. BUT THAT WAS AN ANOMALY, THAT IS NOT A NORMAL ELECTION IN AN MMP ENVIRONMENT. THIS IS NORMAL, WHAT WE'RE GOING INTO NOW. IT IS ALWAYS TIGHT. THIS IS WHAT WE'RE USED TO IN AN MMP ENVIRONMENT. GOING BACK TO THAT LAST ELECTION, PLENTY OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY YOU HAVE BURNED THROUGH AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF POLITICAL CAPITAL, AND IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE BURNING THROUGH THE CAPITAL OF CHRIS HIPKINS TOO. I DON'T THINK THAT IS FAIR TO SAY. IT IS FAIR TO SAY NEW ZEALAND HAS BEEN THROUGH A LOT IN THE LAST SIX YEARS. CERTAINLY IT IS FAIR TO SAY IT IS TOUGH FOR PEOPLE AT THE MOMENT. I THINK WHEN WE REFLECT, IT IS NOT NECESSARILY THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT THAT WE'VE GOT COST OF LIVING ISSUES, WEATHER EVENTS, THAT PEOPLE'S EVERYDAY EXPERIENCES HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFICULT. THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT. BUT THE WAY PEOPLE ARE FEELING IS REAL, AND THEY ARE LOOKING AROUND TO THINK, 'WHAT CAN FIX THIS FOR US?' I THINK PEOPLE WILL BE TAKING SERIOUSLY WHAT EACH POLITICAL PARTY HAS TO OFFER OVER THE NEXT SEVEN WEEKS. THE DANGER IS THAT THEY BLAME YOU FOR THAT. BUT IT HAS LOOKED TO ME THIS WEEK LIKE THE PARTY IS PANICKING. HERE IS AN EXAMPLE ` IS THE DO OVER ON THE VAPING POLICY. JUST SIX WEEKS AGO WE HAD THE HEALTH MINISTER AND PRIME MINISTER STAND UP AND SAY THEY WOULD CRACK DOWN ON VAPING AND THIS IS HOW. SIX WEEKS LATER, THE SAME TWO PEOPLE SAID THEY WOULD DO ANOTHER CRACKDOWN, AND IT IS NOW THEIR ELECTION CAMPAIGN POLICY. WHAT IS THAT ABOUT? I DON'T THINK IT IS PANICKING AT ALL. IT IS RESPONDING TO A CONCERN PEOPLE HAVE OUT THERE. BUT THE RESPONSE CAME SIX WEEKS AGO. IT'S NOT PANICKING AT ALL. WE STILL HAVE DECISIONS TO MAKE IN GOVERNMENT. THESE ARE RESPONDING TO THE ISSUES THAT ARE IN FRONT OF US. SIX WEEKS APART, TWO POLICIES ON VAPING, LOOKS PANICKED. I DON'T THINK SO AT ALL. IT LOOKS PANICKED TO ME. I THINK IT IS THE NATURE OF THE JOB. THERE IS AN ISSUE IN FRONT OF US, AND LET'S RESPOND. I'M INTERESTED IN THIS, AS I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE. WHY ARE YOU DOING OVER THIS CRACKDOWN ON VAPING? WHY JUST SIX WEEKS APART, DO YOU HAVE TWO POLICIES ON VAPING? I THINK IT IS A CONCERN FOR NEW ZEALANDERS. SO BEING RESPONSIVE AND SAYING WE'LL DO THIS, AND DO THAT, THAT IS NOT PANICKING, IT IS SAYING THAT WE ARE TAKING ACTION. ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE CAN MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS ABOUT THAT. I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE TOP ISSUE ` THE COST OF LIVING CRISIS. WE'VE GOT A 10-POINT PLAN FROM LABOUR TO ATTACK THE COST OF LIVING. THAT INCLUDES FREE DOCTOR'S PRESCRIPTIONS, CHEAPER CHILDCARE, FREE OR HALF PRICE PUBLIC TRANSPORT FOR CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE. THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED ALREADY. BUT THE OTHER SEVEN PARTS OF THE PLAN DON'T COME IN UNTIL NEXT YEAR; SOME DON'T COME IN UNTIL 2026. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HURTING FOR TWO YEARS. WHY IS IT TAKING YOUR GOVERNMENT SO LONG? WE HAVE ALREADY RESPONDED. FIRST OF APRIL WE SAW BENEFITS AND SUPERANNUATION GO UP, WE SAW THE MINIMUM WAGE GO UP; STUDENT ALLOWANCES GO UP, INCREASES TO WORKING FOR FAMILIES. WE HAVE STARTED TO ROLL OUT MORE ACCESS TO CHILDCARE SUBSIDY. IN AUGUST, PEOPLE THAT ARE ON SOLE PARENT BENEFIT WILL BE EXPERIENCING FIRST-TIME CHILD SUPPORT PASS ON. THERE HAS BEEN ACTION, AND WE CONTINUE TO LOOK FORWARD. THAT ACTION IS SMART, AND IT HELPS OUT SOME OF THE MOST VULNERABLE. BUT THERE IS NOT A LOT OUT THERE FOR MIDDLE NEW ZEALAND. YOU DISAGREE? I DISAGREE, BECAUSE TAKING THE CO-PAYMENT OFF PRESCRIPTIONS IS FOR EVERYONE. YES, BUT THAT'S $5 A WEEK. FREE PUBLIC TRANSPORT FOR CHILDREN AND THEN HALF PRICE FOR UNDER-25s IS FOR EVERYONE. BUT IS THAT GOING TO MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE TO PEOPLE EXPERIENCING 24% PRICE HIKES IN THEIR COST OF FRUIT AND VEGETABLES? CERTAINLY IF THEY HAVE CHILDREN, IT DOES. IT WOULDN'T OFFSET IT. IT CERTAINLY CUTS BACK WHEN YOU ADD EVERYTHING UP. IT DOES HELP TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE PRESSURES ON THEIR HOUSEHOLD BUDGET. JUST THIS WEEK, WE REACHED THE MILESTONE OF 100 MILLION FREE LUNCHES IN SCHOOLS. THAT MAKES A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE TO THE BUDGETS OF HOUSEHOLDS. THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE AT STAKE IF WE ARE NOT RE-ELECTED. THE PRESSURE THAT WOULD GO ON THE POCKETS OF FAMILIES WOULD BE HUGE. BUT NATIONAL HAS NOT SAID THEY WOULD CUT THAT PROGRAMME. I THINK ACT MIGHT HAVE. ACT WANTS TO CUT A LOT OF THINGS. THEY COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE A LOT OF POWER. SO THIS IS WHERE THERE IS A REAL RISK FOR NEW ZEALAND, AND I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE KNOW HOW MUCH IS AT STAKE WITH A POTENTIAL NATIONAL AND ACT GOVERNMENT. I WANT TO COME BACK TO A LABOUR GOVERNMENT AND YOUR 10-POINT PLAN. THE OTHER SEVEN PARTS DON'T COME IN UNTIL NEXT YEAR. SO UNLESS YOU ARE A FAMILY WITH PRESCHOOL CHILDREN, YOU ARE ONLY SAVING FIVE DOLLARS ON PRESCRIPTIONS OR GETTING FREE PUBLIC TRANSPORT. IT IS VERY INCREMENTAL. AND MIDDLE NEW ZEALAND LARGELY MISSES OUT. AS I SAID, THERE HAVE ALREADY BEEN CHANGES. BUT NOT FOR MIDDLE NEW ZEALAND. CAN YOU IDENTIFY WHAT MIDDLE NEW ZEALAND IS GETTING? AS I SAID, THE PUBLIC TRANSPORT, THE CO-PAYMENTS` ASIDE FROM CO-PAYMENT AND PUBLIC TRANSPORT, WHAT IS MIDDLE NEW ZEALAND GETTING? THERE ARE SOME MIDDLE NEW ZEALAND CHILDREN THAT GO TO SCHOOLS WHERE THERE ARE FREE LUNCHES IN SCHOOLS. CAN YOU POINT TO ANYTHING ELSE? THOSE ARE REALLY IMPORTANT POLICIES. EVEN THINGS LIKE SUPPORTING SCHOOLS SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A DONATION SYSTEM IN PLACE, SO PARENTS DON'T HAVE TO PAY THAT TO THE SCHOOLS, THOSE ARE THINGS WE HAVE DONE TO ALLEVIATE THE PRESSURE ON THE POCKETS OF FAMILIES. BUT THE COST OF LIVING CRISIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR TWO YEARS. FAMILIES ARE STRUGGLING AND LOOKING TO THE GOVERNMENT. THAT IS A LONG TIME IN THE ECONOMIC FORTUNES OF THOSE FAMILIES. I THINK IT IS UNFAIR TO SAY WE HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE ANYTHING. I'VE MENTIONED SOME OF THE THINGS WE HAVE DONE. BUT I'M SAYING MIDDLE NEW ZEALAND HAS LARGELY MISSED OUT. AND WHAT WE HAVE ANNOUNCED IS MOVING FORWARD, SO THERE HAS TO BE ONGOING ACTION TAKEN, AND AS A GOVERNMENT, WE HAVE DEMONSTRATED OUR COMMITMENT TO DOING THAT. WE HAVE MADE ANNOUNCEMENTS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE LOOKING FORWARD AS WELL. THE 10-POINT PLAN LOOKS A LITTLE THIN. TWO POINTS ARE KEEPING INFLATION UNDER CONTROL AND CREATING JOBS AND GROWING WAGES. THAT IS JUST THE CORE BUSINESS OF ANY GOVERNMENT, ISN'T IT? THAT'S JUST BUSINESS AS USUAL. IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUT ON RECORD THAT THAT'S OUR PRIORITY. WE RECOGNISE THE CHALLENGING TIMES THAT WE ARE IN. WE LOOK FORWARD, AND TREASURY SAYS INFLATION WILL COME DOWN. WE WILL RETURN TO SOME TYPE OF NORMALITY NEXT YEAR. SO WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO WORK TOWARDS THAT. THERE ARE TWO MORE POLICIES TO COME IN THIS 10-POINT PLAN, BY MY COUNT. IS ONE OF THEM CHANGES TO THE IN WORK TAX CREDIT IN WORKING FOR FAMILIES? WE'VE ANNOUNCED WHAT WE WILL BE DOING WITH WORKING FOR FAMILIES AS A POLITICAL PARTY. AS A GOVERNMENT, I'VE SAID THE REVIEW IS STILL UNDERWAY. THAT REPORT BACK WILL GO TO CABINET BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR. TWO SEPARATE THINGS ` WHAT WE HAVE ANNOUNCED IS WHAT WE WILL DEFINITELY DO, WHICH IS INCREASE THE IN WORK TAX CREDIT AND LIFT THE THRESHOLD; THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T NECESSARILY SOMETHING ELSE THAT MIGHT BE DONE OFF THE BACK OF THE REVIEW. THAT REVIEW TOOK TWO YEARS. YOU'VE HAD IT SINCE EARLIER THIS YEAR. IS IT TIME TO STOP REVIEWING AND START DOING? I THINK ANYONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCED WORKING FOR FAMILIES WOULD KNOW THAT IT IS A VERY COMPLICATED SYSTEM. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ADVICE THAT THE CABINET RECEIVES IS FULSOME BEFORE MOVING FORWARD. THAT WAS THE PROBLEM, THAT IT WAS TOO COMPLICATED, WORKING FOR FAMILIES. THAT'S WHAT THE REVIEW WAS LOOKING AT. ANTI-POVERTY GROUPS HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THAT REVIEW, SAYING THEY WANT THE IN WORKS TAX CREDIT, WHICH IS $72.50 FOR FAMILIES WITH THREE CHILDREN, EXTENDED TO FAMILIES WHO ARE NOT IN PAID WORK OR ON A BENEFIT. HAVE YOU RULED THAT OUT? CERTAINLY IN THE POLICY WE HAVE ANNOUNCED AS A POLITICAL PARTY, THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE INCLUDED IN OUR ANNOUNCEMENT. IT WILL SHIFT THE IN WORK TAX CREDIT TO 97 UNDER US. BUT FOR THOSE FAMILIES WHO ARE NOT IN PAID WORK OR ON A BENEFIT ` BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE MOST VULNERABLE CHILDREN, WHO ARE LIVING IN POVERTY` 200,000 OF THEM. AND 50% OF THE CHILDREN LIVING IN POVERTY ARE IN WORKING HOUSEHOLDS. THERE ARE IN-WORK EXPENSES THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY TO BE ABLE TO WORK. WE RECOGNISE HOW DIFFICULT THAT IS. SO OFTEN PEOPLE SAY THAT` YOU HEAR PEOPLE MENTION, PARTICULARLY THOSE ON THE LOWEST WAGES, THAT IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THEY ARE GETTING AHEAD, OR WORKING ISN'T PAYING OFF, AND IT IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TRANSPORT COSTS AND CHILDCARE COSTS. SO THAT'S WHY THEY GET IT. BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE FAMILIES THAT ARE ON THE BENEFIT AND WHO AREN'T ON PAID WORK? I'M NOT GOING TO PRETEND THAT THERE DOESN'T NEED TO BE MORE DONE TO ADDRESS INCOME ADEQUACY FOR THOSE ON WELFARE. THERE IS MORE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS OVER $3bn PUT IN TO LIFTING BENEFITS` I WANT TO GO BACK TO THAT` 1st OF APRIL, THEY WENT UP. YOU'RE NOT SAYING THAT MORE DOESN'T NEED TO BE DONE. SO WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO DO IT? WELL, THIS IS THE ONGOING WORK. WHEN WE STARTED THE OVERHAUL OF THE WELFARE SYSTEM, WE DIDN'T SAY THAT WOULD BE DONE IN THREE YEARS' TIME. THAT IS PART AND PARCEL OF WHAT WE CONTINUE TO DO. I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS IN TERMS OF LIFTING BENEFITS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT TODAY, BUT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO ADDRESS INCOME ADEQUACY IN THE WELFARE SYSTEM, AND IF RE-ELECTED WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO THAT WORK. BUT YOU MAY ALSO BE OUT OF TIME. WE ARE STILL IN THIS TO WIN IT. AND WE'LL BE WORKING HARD OVER THE NEXT SEVEN WEEKS TO DO THAT. I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT GLORIAVALE NOW, BECAUSE IT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY AND QUITE CONCERNING SITUATION, WHAT IS HAPPENING DOWN THERE. IN THE WAKE OF THOSE EMPLOYMENT COURT RULINGS, WHICH FOUND THAT THOSE BOYS AND GIRLS WERE NOT VOLUNTEERS, THAT THEY WERE EMPLOYEES, IS GLORIAVALE STILL EXPLOITING CHILDREN FOR CHILD LABOUR? I HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS IS NOT A PARTICULAR AREA THAT I HAVE THE LEAD ON AS MINISTER. BUT YOU DO HAVE RESPONSIBILITY AS CHAIR OF THE SOCIAL WELLBEING CABINET COMMITTEE, THAT IS CO-ORDINATING THE ALL OF GOVERNMENT RESPONSE. THE MINISTER IN CHARGE IS ACTUALLY PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN. BUT YOU CHAIR THE SOCIAL WELLBEING CABINET COMMITTEE. I DO, BUT I'M NOT THE LEAD` THERE'S A LOT OF PAPERS AND ISSUES THAT COME THROUGH THAT CABINET COMMITTEE. I BET. OF COURSE WE ARE WATCHING REALLY CLOSELY WHAT HAPPENS DOWN THERE, AND THERE IS ONGOING WORK. SO HOW IS IT GOING? I HAVEN'T GOT AN UPDATE, TO BE HONEST, SO I AM NOT GOING TO SPEAK TO THAT. BUT YOU ARE GETTING UPDATED BY CRAIG CHURCHILL, WHO IS THE REGIONAL LEAD DOWN THERE. I'M NOT DIRECTLY, BECAUSE I AM NOT THE MINISTER RESPONSIBLE. SO, DOES IT CONCERN YOU THOUGH` MSD HAS BEEN INVOLVED WITH WHAT'S GOING ON DOWN THERE, SO YOU DO HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY. MSD IS ONE OF THE MANY AGENCIES INVOLVED, I HAVEN'T RECEIVED AN UP-TO-DATE REPORT ON WHERE THAT WORK IS AT, AND SO I THINK IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR ME TO SPEAK TO THAT RIGHT NOW. WHY NOT? THIS IS A HIGHLY CONCERNING SITUATION THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES. IT LOOKS LIKE A SYSTEMIC FAILURE. AND THERE IS A RANGE OF GOVERNMENT AGENCIES WHO ARE INVOLVED, INCLUDING YOUR OWN. SO WHY DON'T YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE? IF I'M COMPLETELY FRANK, I DIDN'T REALISE WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THIS TODAY, OTHERWISE I WOULD HAVE GOT AN UPDATE BEFOREHAND SO I COULD SPEAK TO IT. ANYTHING I DO KNOW COULD BE OUTDATED, SO I WOULDN'T WANT TO SPEAK TO THAT TODAY. DO YOU HAVE COMFORT THAT THOSE 350 CHILDREN ARE SAFE AND BEING KEPT SAFE BY THE MULTIPLE AGENCIES, INCLUDING YOUR OWN, WHO ARE WORKING DOWN THERE? THEY HAVE LOTS OF EYES OVER THEM AND THEY HAVE FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW. THE RIGHT GOVERNMENT AGENCIES ARE IN THERE, AND THEY KNOW THAT THEY ARE BEING MONITORED VERY CLOSELY, SO I HAVEN'T HAD ANY SUGGESTIONS THAT THEY ARE UNSAFE. OK. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE ON THE NATION. GOOD LUCK OUT THERE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. THANK YOU. PLENTY TO DISCUSS THERE WITH OUR POLITICAL PANEL ELLA HENRY, DILEEPA FONSEKA AND JANET WILSON. AND STAY WITH US FOR A SPECIAL REPORT ON THE FEMALE VOTE AND WHY IT MATTERS SO MUCH THIS ELECTION. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. I'M JOINED NOW BY OUR PANEL, PROFESSOR ELLA HENRY FROM AUT, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT AT BUSINESS DESK DILEEPA FONSEKA AND JANET WILSON WHO WAS CHIEF PRESS SECRETARY FOR JUDITH COLLINS AT THE LAST ELECTION, AND IS A CURRENT NATIONAL PARTY MEMBER. TENA KOUTOU, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAMME, EVERYBODY. OK, LET'S TALK ABOUT CARMEL SEPULONI'S PERFORMANCE THERE. JANET, DO YOU GET A SENSE THAT THEY ARE PANICKED OR NOT? I GET A SENSE THAT THEY'RE TIRED. TIRED. I GET A SENSE THAT THEY'RE REALLY TIRED. I THINK IT'S BEEN PROBABLY TWO TERMS OF THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY ACTIVITY FOR A GOVERNMENT, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR STRIPES, AND I THINK THEY'RE VERY, VERY TIRED. I DON'T THINK THEY'RE PANICKED YET. I THINK THEY'RE IN FOR A FIGHT AND I THINK WE'RE GONNA SEE A LOT OF MONGREL IN THIS ELECTION. OK, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE MONGREL. DOES THAT MEAN CHIPPY HAS TO BE UNLEASHED, DILEEPA? IS HE GOING TO BE MORE NEGATIVE AND ATTACKING AFTER THIS WEEK'S POLLS? I THINK YOU'VE ALREADY SEEN THAT A LITTLE BIT. YOU KNOW, TRYING TO CLAIM THAT UNDERDOG TYPE NARRATIVE. I THINK THAT THIS, UM, THIS IS KINDA SHOWING A LITTLE BIT OF` THEY'RE HAVE A GOOD BIT OF DIFFICULTY, I THINK, COMMUNICATING THEIR MESSAGE. EVEN THEN, YOU HAD THE MINISTER TALKING ABOUT THE VAPING POLICY AND RIGHT THROUGH HER DISCUSSION ON THAT, YOU NEVER` DIDN'T HEAR HER TALK ABOUT WHAT OTHER HEALTH EFFECTS THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT? WHAT ARE THEY TRYING TO PREVENT? WHAT IS THE DANGER HERE? AND RIGHT THROUGH THEIR COMMS ON THIS, YOU HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT IT, JUST, 'WE NEED THIS X RULE,' YOU HAD THEM TALKING ABOUT` I THINK THEY'RE CHANGING THE RULES AROUND THE LABELLING OF THE VAPING, SO YOU CAN'T USE STRAWBERRY CRUSH. THAT'S RIGHT, YEP. YOU HAVE TO USE BERRY, GENERIC. AND IF YOU MAKE RULES TO THAT EXTENT, YOU'RE GOING TO BE LEGISLATING AND EVERY RE-LEGISLATING EVERY FEW MONTHS BECAUSE THESE PRODUCERS ARE GOING TO ADAPT TO WHATEVER RULES YOU SET IN PLACE. (STAMMERS) IS THERE A POINT THERE THAT YOU'VE GOT AT LEAST ONE POLICY AND THEN SIX WEEKS LATER, ELLA, YOU'VE GOT A REVAMP OF THE POLICY. DOES THAT SEEM LIKE THE FIRST POLICY IS NOT THOUGHT THROUGH? DOES THAT GIVE THE SENSE OF DO THEY REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING? IT FEELS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FRONT-FOOT AT SOME POINT TO OVERCOME THAT PERCEPTION THAT THEY'RE BEING REACTIVE RATHER THAN PROACTIVE, AND I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT ALL OF THE PARTIES IN THE COMING WEEKS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GIVE STRATEGIC VISION. THERE ARE A LOT OF VOTERS WHO ARE LOOKING FOR WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AND WHAT IS THE BIGGER PICTURE? WHERE ARE WE GOING? AND I FEEL LIKE THEY MIGHT STILL BE FORMULATING IN THE PARTY AT THE MOMENT. COS YOU GOT THE VAPING POLICY WHICH THEY HAVE ANNOUNCED, BUT THEN YOU'VE ALSO GOT THE LABOUR PARTY POLICY ON TOP OF THAT. WHICH IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING DIFFERENT. AND THAT'S CONFUSING FOR VOTERS, ISN'T IT? EXACTLY, EXACTLY. AND SO YOU PUT OUT MESSAGES LIKE THAT, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY GOING TO CONFUSE PEOPLE. AND MISSING IN ALL THAT IS THE THRUST OF WHY. AND LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, THE BIG PICTURE OF WHAT IS THE IMPETUS BEHIND TAKING OFF GST OF FOOD, WHAT IS THE IMPETUS OF VAPING, WHAT IS THE VISION OF THESE INDIVIDUAL POLICIES AND WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THEM? AT THE MOMENT, I'M GETTING A SENSE THAT THEY ARE PLUCKING THE ODD, WHAT I CALL, RETAIL POLITICS OUT OF THE AIR BECAUSE THEY THINK IT MIGHT WORK. I CAN REMEMBER THIS IN 2020 ` 'THIS COULD WORK. LET'S GIVE THIS A GO.' THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF THAT GOING ON, PARTICULARLY WITH THE VAPING. ...HAPHAZARD, THOUGH, DOESN'T IT? IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU CONFIDENCE OF A BIG VISION, ELLA. WHICH IS WHAT, I GUESS, WHAT VOTERS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET ME STUCK OUT OF THIS RUT? WELL, THE DIFFICULTY, TOO, WE FACE IS WITH A THREE-YEAR TERM, THERE IS A VERY SHORT-TERM FOCUS ON POLICIES. AND I THINK` NEW ZEALANDERS ARE SAYING, 'WHERE ARE WE GOING?' THERE'S CLIMATE CHANGE, POVERTY, THERE'S WORLD PEACE AT ISSUE AND I'D LOVE TO SEE ALL OF THE PARTIES STEP UP WITH 'WHAT IS MY VISION 'FOR AOTEAROA NEW ZEALAND?' MOVING FORWARD. COULD WE SEE, SAY, PERHAPS, WHEN CHRIS HIPKINS GOES HEAD-TO-HEAD WITH CHRISTOPHER LUXON IN A DEBATE SETTING, COULD WE SEE SOME CLAW-BACK FOR LABOUR THERE? WOULD CHIPPY OUTDO LUXON IN A DEBATE? IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE HOPING FOR? THAT'S WHAT THEY SEEM TO BE HOPING FOR, RIGHT? BUT MY PERSPECTIVE ON THIS IS THAT A LOT OF THESE DEBATES, THEY HAVEN'T CHANGED THE GAME MUCH IN A LONG TIME. THERE'S MULTIPLE DEBATES HAPPENING ON MULTIPLE PLATFORMS. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE CAN PERFORM WELL ON ONE AND THE OTHER, AND NO SINGLE ONE IS GOING TO GO NECESSARILY` EACH PLATFORM SAYS THAT THEIR DEBATE IS THE QUINTESSENTIAL` IT'S GOING TO BE. ESPECIALLY HERE ON NEWSHUB NATION. THE THING WITH DEBATES IS IT'S NOT THE GAME-CHANGER THAT IT ONCE WAS. BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY OF THEM? PEOPLE WILL ASSESS YOU, BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S SO MUCH NEWS IN GENERAL NOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SWITCH OFF. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MILLENNIALS. ABSOLUTELY. JUST NOT BEING ABLE TO... KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. I HAVE THREE DAUGHTERS WHO ARE MILLENNIALS AND I USE THEM TO HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHAT'S THE ZEITGEIST FOR THEM AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE BIG ISSUES. YOU KNOW, 'WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR ME 'AND BEING ABLE TO AFFORD A HOUSE?' OR JOB SECURITY` SO IS THERE A PARTICULAR PARTY THAT IS PROVIDING THAT VISION FOR THEM OR FOR YOU AT THE MOMENT? WELL, I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU. (ALL LAUGH) WELL, GO ON. WELL, NOT NECESSARILY YOUR VOTING PREFERENCES, BUT DO YOU THINK THAT ONE PARTICULAR PARTY IS OUTLINING THEIR VISION BETTER THAN THE OTHERS? INTERESTINGLY, I THINK THE SMALLER PARTIES ARE BECAUSE THEY HAVE GOT THAT FREEDOM AND THEY'RE NOT FIGHTING FOR SURVIVAL. HAVE BEEN QUITE INTERESTING AND I THINK ARE ATTRACTING SOME OF THE YOUNGER VOTERS. AND THAT'S WHAT WE GET IN THE POLLS. WELL, THE CENTRE GROUND IS NOT THE CENTRE GROUND, I THINK, THAT IT HAS` I THINK DAVID LANGE USED TO HAVE THAT SAYING ` I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WORD-FOR-WORD BUT WASN'T IT ` 'THE CENTRE CONSISTS OF ONE PERSON.' AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY NO MORE TRUE THAN IN THIS ELECTION WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF` BECAUSE I THINK OF THESE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS IN NEW ZEALAND, YOU'VE ACTUALLY GOT A VERY DIVERSE SOCIETY, NOT JUST IN ETHNICITY BUT IN AGE AS WELL. YOU'VE GOT MILLENNIALS ALMOST AS` TERMS OF AN ELIGIBLE VOTER BLOCK, ALMOST BEING AS` LARGE OR LARGER THAN THE BABY BOOMERS. YOU'VE GOT GENERATION X WHO ARE LARGER. AND WHEN THIS FRACTIOUS VOTING DEMOGRAPHIC IS HARD FOR THESE BIG TENT PARTIES TO GRAB THE CENTRE CHUNKS THAT THEY WERE USED TO, AND YOU'VE SEEN IN OTHER MMP ENVIRONMENTS ` IN GERMANY ALSO, THE LARGER PARTIES ARE NOT AS LARGE AS WE'VE BEEN USED TO SEEING PARTIES LIKE NATIONAL OR LABOUR. ISN'T MMP NATURALLY ALIGNED TO THAT? WHICH IS WHY WE'RE SEEING THE MINOR PARTIES, RIGHT? THE GREEN PARTY ARE COMING OUT WITH SOME QUITE INNOVATIVE POLICY. THEIR STUFF ON... BRINGING DENTAL INTO THE PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM IS AN INNOVATIVE, IF EXPENSIVE POLICY. BUT IT'S GOOD THINKING AND IT WOULD PLAY TO THEIR BASE. I JUST WANT TO MOVE ON TO NATIONAL FOR THE MOMENT, AND WE'LL JUST GO AWAY FROM THE BIG VISION, AND WE'RE GONNA DRAW RIGHT DOWN INTO NAUGHTY MPs.. FOR A CHANGE THIS WEEK, IT WAS CHRISTOPHER LUXON WHO HAD TO DEAL WITH SOME MP PROBLEMS. FIRST OF ALL, HOW WELL DID HE RESPOND TO TIM VAN DE MOLEN'S SORT OF AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOUR AND RESULTING CENSORSHIP BY THE PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE? WHAT DO YOU THINK? WELL, HE DIDN'T LIVE UP HIS OWN STANDARDS, WHICH, HE SAID OF MICHAEL WOOD THAT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN GONE DAY ONE, SO CLEARLY THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN THIS CASE, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF` THIS KIND OF THING THIS CLOSE TO THE ELECTION IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE FORGOTTEN ABOUT EVENTUALLY. SO THESE ARE LITTLE BLIPS. I MEAN, VAN DE MOLEN IS IN A PRETTY SAFE SEAT. IT WAS QUITE A LARGE MAJORITY THAT SAID THEY HADN'T GONE TO LABOUR SINCE 1938 OR SOMETHING, SO THERE'S NOTHING ELECTORALLY THERE. AND OBVIOUSLY, HE'S BEEN BOUGHT OUT OF CABINET. LET'S MOVE ON TO DIVERSITY THEN. WE HAVE MICHAEL WOODHOUSE, WHO SAYS THAT HE, AND IN A CONTESTED KIND OF QUOTE, BUT IT WAS DIVERSITY OVER EXPERIENCE WHICH COST HIM A HIGH LIST POSITION, JANET. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT? COS IT IS TRUE ` THERE ARE MORE WOMEN ON THE NATIONAL LISTS THAN THERE ARE MEN ON THE TOP FOUR. YES, BUT THAT'S A GOOD THING, RIGHT? AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO DO AND SUDDENLY IT'S BECOME A BAD THING. WELL, FOR MICHAEL WOODHOUSE. I THINK MICHAEL WOODHOUSE NEEDS TO PUT HIS BIG BOY PANTS ON, FRANKLY, AND JUST GROW A PAIR. HE HAD A HISSY FIT. AND THEN TRIED TO WALK THE HISSY FIT BACK, HAVING KIND OF SAID, 'WELL, THAT'S IT. I'M OUT.' BUT, YOU KNOW, UNDER PRESENT POLLING, HE COULD STILL GET IN ON THAT LIST, ON THE NUMBER THAT HE WAS ON. HE WAS ON NUMBER 30 ON THAT LIST. HE HAD A PRE-EMPTIVE HISSY FIT THAT COST HIM THE POSITION. THAT'S RIGHT. PRECISELY. HE WASN'T GOING TO BE A MINISTER. I THINK THAT WAS PROBABLY THE UNDERLYING FACTOR THERE, MAYBE. OK, BUT IS IT JUST SMOKE AND MIRRORS? BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE AT THE SAFE SEATS FOR NATIONAL, ARE GENERALLY BLOKES AGAIN, AREN'T THEY? AND SO THE BLOKES ARE GONNA GET BACK IN. WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE IN THOSE SAFER SEATS, THEY TEND TO BE WHITE MEN. SO, I MEAN, THAT IS GOING TO, DARE I SAY, COLOUR THEIR WHATEVER HAPPENS AFTER THE ELECTIONS ANYWAY. AND THEY ARE STILL WHITE MEN, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ACROSS ALL OF PARLIAMENT. THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW. THOSE OF US WHO ARE DIVERSE NOTICE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. I THINK THE NATIONAL PARTY'S ELECTORATE SEAT SELECTIONS AND THINGS TEND TO BE SELECTING WHITE MEN, EVEN REGARDLESS OF THE DIRECTIVE THAT COMES FROM THE CENTRAL PARTY. IT SEEMED TO BE` IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR CHRISTOPHER LUXON BECAUSE HE PUT OUT THE EDICT` I THINK, TO BE FAIR TO LUXON, I THINK LUXON HAS BEEN AWARE OF THIS AND HAS BEEN TRYING TO FIGHT IT. MM. ARE THEY NOT LISTENING TO HIM AT GRASSROOTS? I CAN TELL YOU THAT AT GRASSROOTS, THAT'S THE BATTLE THAT'S GOING ON. THAT IS A REAL BATTLE THAT'S GOING ON AT THE MOMENT. BETWEEN` AND OFTEN BETWEEN THE GENDERS AS WELL. HAVE YOU NOTICED THIS? ARE YOU INVOLVED IN THE LOCAL ELECTION? WELL, I LIVE IN HAWKE'S BAY, IN THE TUKITUKI ELECTORATE, AND IN NAPIER. WE'VE GOT TWO GREAT FEMALE CANDIDATES. BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN EASILY, NECESSARILY. IN ONE CASE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN EASILY. WHICH CASE WAS THAT, JANET? THAT WAS WITH` IN TUKITUKI. CATHERINE WEDD'S A FANTASTIC CANDIDATE. RIGHT. SO SHE DID GET ELECTED, BUT... YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T EASY. IT WASN'T EASY. IT WASN'T EASY. OK, SO THAT THING IS CARRYING ON. WITH CHRISTOPHER LUXON IN AN INTERVIEW THIS WEEK ON RNZ HE HAD THE WORD 'GENDER' SAYING, 'IS GENDER PART OF THE CRITERIA?' AND HE REFUSED TO SAY IT. CATEGORICALLY REFUSED. DIVERSITY WAS HIS KEY PHRASE THAT HE KEPT REITERATING. THEN OBVIOUSLY IT WAS CLARIFIED, OF COURSE, BY NICOLA WILLIS LATER ON. BUT IS THAT A PROBLEM? WHY WOULDN'T HE SAY THE WORD GENDER, IN TERMS OF CRITERIA FOR SELECTING? IT'S A ROCKY ROAD TO HELL, ADMITTING THAT GENDER IS AN ISSUE IN POLITICS. BUT LET'S BE VERY CLEAR ` STATISTICALLY, ONE OF THE SMALLEST ETHNIC GROUPS IN THE COUNTRY IS WHITE MEN. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, AND WE'RE THE ONES THAT GET CALLED DIVERSE. ACTUALLY, WE SHOULD BE HAVING POLICIES AND PRACTICES TO SAVE WHITE MEN BECAUSE THEY ARE A SHRINKING ETHNIC MINORITY IN THIS COUNTRY. RIGHT.... IT'S VERY VALID POLICY SOMETHING YOU SHOULD PUT OUT THERE, MAYBE NOT. THE NEW ZEALAND ELECTIONS STUDY HAS SOME AN INTERESTING DATA THAT THEY` YOU KNOW, THAT'S BASICALLY COMPREHENSIVE STUDY AFTER THE ELECTION WHERE THEY ASK LOTS OF DETAILED QUESTIONS AND THEY FOUND` IT SEEMED TO INDICATE THAT A LOT OF THE SWING VOTERS WERE MAJORITY WOMEN IN TERMS OF THE ONES THAT FLIPPED OVER, SO THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN IMPORTANT VOTING BLOCK. ABSOLUTELY. AND FUNNILY ENOUGH, WE HAVE A STORY ABOUT THAT COMING UP. SO THERE YOU GO, RIGHT ON THE BUTTON. THANK YOU SO MUCH, GUYS, FOR YOUR TIME. JANET WILSON, DILEEPA FONSEKA AND ELLA HENRY. A MURI AKE NEI ` ACT'S CLIMATE SPOKESPERSON ON ALL THE MEASURES THEY WANT TO SCRAP. AND THEY MET IN THE DEBATING TEAM THEN WORKED TOGETHER IN THE BEEHIVE. LOVE AND POLITICS ENTWINED ON BACKSTORY. WELCOME BACK TO BACKSTORY WHERE WE GET TO KNOW OUR MPs AS PEOPLE. TODAY IT'S THE OTHER 'BOY FROM THE HUTT' ` NOT CHRIS HIPKINS, BUT CHRIS BISHOP. MY P.B IS 24:30 FOR 5K, SO I THINK I CAME IN AT... ABOUT 27 TODAY. SO, YEAH. I'M MEANT TO BE SPEEDING UP AS I GET CLOSER TO THE ELECTION BUT I SEEM TO BE SLOWING DOWN. THAT'S JUST` I'M TIRED DURING THE WEEK. KEEPING FIT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. I'VE ALWAYS STRUGGLED WITH MY FITNESS AND WITH MY WEIGHT, AND SO IT'S JUST A, YOU KNOW, GET YOU OUT OF BED ON A SATURDAY MORNING. WHO'S ON THIS SIDE? DADDY. IT'S FUNNY, THEY RECOGNISE JEREMY OR THEY RECOGNISE LADYHAWKE AND THEY SORT OF LOOK UP AND THEY SEE ME AND THEY GO, 'OH, YOU'RE CHRIS' WIFE.' JEREMY LOOKS MUCH LIKE HIM THAT PEOPLE SORT OF SEE HIM AND THEY GO, 'OH, THAT'S CHRIS' SON,' AND THEY CONNECT THE DOTS. I GREW UP NOT FAR FROM HERE ` JUST LITERALLY ABOUT A KILOMETRE IS THE KOWHAIS AND KINGS CRESCENT, CENTRAL LOWER HUTT. ALWAYS LATE TO SCHOOL, EVEN THOUGH WE LIVED RIGHT NEXT DOOR. WHITE HOUSE. WE DID, LIKE, A WHOLE PROJECT FOR LIKE SIX WEEKS ON TUDOR ENGLAND AND LEARNED ABOUT HENRY THE EIGHTH AND HIS SIXTH WIVES AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE I GOT MY LOVE OF HISTORY FROM. DON'T THINK THEY DO THAT STUFF AT PRIMARY SCHOOL ANYMORE. BUT YEAH, WE HAD LIKE A TUDOR FEAST AND I CAME DRESSED UP AS SIR WALTER RALEIGH. DAD WAS A JOURNALIST. HE WAS A SORT OF PADDY GOWER OF HIS GENERATION, I SUPPOSE, IN THE LATE 1980s OR EARLY TO MID-1980s. HE WAS TVNZ POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT FOR 3 OR 4 YEARS AS WELL. WORKED FOR RNZ AS WELL, RADIO NEW ZEALAND. AND MUM WAS A TEACHER AND THEN RETRAINED AS A LAWYER WHEN I WAS AT PRIMARY SCHOOL. MY GRANDMOTHER WHO'S PASSED AWAY NOW AS WELL, AND MY GRANDFATHER ON MY MOTHER'S SIDE WERE BOTH METHODIST SOCIAL ACTIVISTS. NANA FAMOUSLY GOT ARRESTED ON THE HUTT ROAD, JUST LITERALLY OVER HERE, STATE HIGHWAY TWO, THE SPRINGBOK TOUR IN 1981, LAY DOWN ON THE HUTT MOTORWAY AND GOT ARRESTED ` 100 HOURS COMMUNITY SERVICE. SO YEAH, I THINK I'VE ALWAYS SORT OF BEEN INTERESTED IN KIND OF, YOU KNOW, SOCIAL PROGRESS AND TRYING TO MAKE THINGS BETTER. AND MAYBE I GOT THAT FROM MY NANA AND MY GRANDFATHER. I THINK GOOD POLITICIANS LISTEN, REFLECT, READ AND THINK DEEPLY ABOUT THE WORLD AND IF NECESSARY, CHANGE THEIR MINDS. I HOPE TO ALWAYS BE OPEN TO THAT IN MY TIME IN THIS HOUSE. I'VE LEARNED A LOT ALONG THE WAY, AND AS I SAID IN MY MAIDEN SPEECH, THAT'S WHAT'S GOOD POLITICIANS DO. BACK IN 2007, MY DEBATING PARTNER AND I WON THE CAMBRIDGE UNION DEBATING TOURNAMENT ` FIRST TIME A NEW ZEALAND TEAM HAD EVER WON IN CAMBRIDGE. DEBATED IN THE OXFORD UNION, STOOD AT THE DESPATCH BOX ` THE SAME DESPATCH BOX THAT LANGE HAD STOOD AT IN 1984 THE NUCLEAR DEBATE. LOVE, CRICKET, LOVE MUSIC, LOVE FOOD. SO I ALWAYS SAY TO PEOPLE, IF I WASN'T AN MP, YOU KNOW, MAYBE I'D BE A, YOU KNOW, TRY AND BE IN A BAND OR TRY AND PLAY CRICKET OR OPEN A RESTAURANT. THERE'S HIGHS AND LOWS IN POLITICS. I THINK EVERY POLITICIAN WILL TELL YOU THAT. YOU KNOW, I'VE SAID STUPID THINGS BEFORE THAT, YOU KNOW, I REGRET. GET TOO ANGRY IN PARLIAMENT. I TRY AND KEEP AN EVEN KEEL, YOU KNOW, TRY AND PLAY HARD BUT FAIR. MY MUM ALWAYS USED TO SAY TO ME IN SIXTH AND SEVENTH FORM, THERE'S NO SUBSTITUTE FOR HARD WORK, JUST WORK HARD. AND THAT'S STOOD ME IN PRETTY GOOD STEAD ACTUALLY, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WAS HER PHILOSOPHY. PRETTY MUCH HER LIFE WAS JUST LIKE, WORK HARD, AND SHE'S AMAZING. SHE'S DONE AMAZING THINGS IN HER CAREER AND AS A MUM. JENNA, WHO'S AMAZING, AND WEE JEREMY, WHO'S JUST 14 MONTHS NOW, ALMOST 14 MONTHS. JUST STARTED WALKING FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND WE GOT LADYHAWKE FIVE, FIVE YEARS AGO? WE MET AT UNIVERSITY. WE WERE BOTH DEBATERS, SO SPENT QUITE A LOT OF TIME TOGETHER IN THE DEBATING SOCIETY AND THEN BOTH WORKED AT PARLIAMENT AS WELL. WITH CHRIS BEING IN PARLIAMENT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO BE A UNIT, YOU'VE GOT TO BE A TEAM AND BE 100% SUPPORTIVE OF EACH OTHER ALL THE TIME. SO THAT'S WHAT WE TRY TO DO. YEAH, YEAH. I DON'T KNOW. (CHUCKLES) IT'S HARD TO EXPLAIN. (DOG BARKS) 2009? YEAH. 2009. 14 YEARS AGO. 14 YEARS. YEAH. WE GOT MARRIED IN 2019, SO IT TOOK A WHILE TO GET AROUND TO GET MARRIED. JENNA'S GOT HER OWN CAREER AND HER OWN PATH AND HER OWN VIEWS. AND, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT MY OWN CAREER, MY OWN PATH, WITH MY OWN VIEWS AND I THINK WE'RE BOTH REALLY RESPECTFUL OF THAT OF EACH OTHER, WHICH IS REALLY GOOD. BUT WE CALL EACH OTHER OUT A LOT. LIKE, WE DEFINITELY DISAGREE. YEAH. BUT NO, GOT GOOD, GOOD MECHANISMS FOR WORKING THROUGH DISAGREEMENTS. YEAH, I LOSE ALL THE TIME. IT'S FINE. HE LETS ME WIN. I WIN MOST OF THE DEBATES IN PARLIAMENT, SO. LAUGHS: NO, NO, NO. SHE'S MUCH MORE PRACTICAL THAN I AM. LIKE, SHE FIXES ALL THE STUFF IN THE HOUSE. I DO ALL THE FLAT PACKS. I'M INCOMPETENT. YEAH, CORRECT. I'M INCOMPETENT AT, LIKE, MANUAL LABOUR AND, LIKE, HOME HANDIWORK. JENNA DOES IT ALL. I SORT OUT THE CREEPY CRAWLIES. JENNA SORTS OUT THE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, FIXING STUFF. IT WAS IN OUR WEDDING VOWS. IT WAS. IT WAS. ALONGSIDE WATCHING ME WATCHING ALL THE HARRY POTTER MOVIES AND READING ALL THE BOOKS, WHICH I'VE NOW DONE. AND YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO STOP BITING YOUR NAILS. I WAS MEANT TO STOP BITING MY NAILS, WHICH I HAVE NOT. I HAVE FAILED MY VOWS. IT'S A WORK IN PROGRESS. IT'S QUITE A CLICHE` PROBABLY EVERY NEW DAD SAYS THIS, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU START THINKING ABOUT THE FUTURE AND WHAT SORT OF NEW ZEALAND YOU WANT US TO BE IN THE FUTURE. AND YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. HAS IT MADE ME SOFTER? I DON'T KNOW. YEAH, DEFINITELY HAS. YOU'RE A MASSIVE SOFTIE WITH HIM. OK. ALL RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW EXACTLY WHO'S GOING TO PLAY BAD COP AND GOOD COP WHEN HE'S OLDER. I THINK I WAS A SOFTIE BEFORE, TO BE HONEST. (LAUGHS) NO? NO. WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF NATIONAL PARTY MERCH OUT THERE, ISN'T THERE? WE'RE GONNA SEE A LOT MORE OF THAT. A LOT MORE. A LOT OF BLUE AROUND. A LOT OF RED. A LOT OF ALL SORTS OF COLOURS. THEY SHOULD GET THAT LITTLE DOG A COAT. THERE YOU GO. GET SOMETHING FOR THEM, ANYWAY. E WHAI AKE NEI ` DOES ACT SERIOUSLY WANT TO SLASH AND BURN OUR CLIMATE LAWS? FIND OUT LIVE WITH SPOKESPERSON SIMON COURT. PLUS, SENIOR REPORTER LAURA WALTERS ON WOOING THE WOMEN'S VOTE THIS ELECTION. BELIEVE THE POLLS, AND NATIONAL AND ACT WILL FORM THE NEXT GOVERNMENT. WOULD IT BE A HAPPY COALITION? ONE AREA THE TWO PARTIES SEEM TO DIFFER WILDLY ON IS CLIMATE. ACT WANTS TO SLASH AND BURN THE ZERO CARBON ACT AND A WHOLE SWATHE OF OTHER INITIATIVES. THEIR CLIMATE SPOKESPERSON SIMON COURT JOINS ME NOW. WELCOME TO THE PROGRAMME, SIMON. HAVE YOU SEEN FIRST-HAND THE DEVASTATION OF CYCLONE GABRIELLE? YES. I HAVE BEEN UP TO THE WEST COAST OF AUCKLAND, AND TRAVELLED TO THE HAWKE'S BAY A NUMBER OF TIMES TO SEE THE DEVASTATION AFTER THOSE PHENOMENAL WEATHER EVENTS. YOU OBVIOUSLY FEEL FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL HOMELESS OUT THERE. IF YOU WERE CAUGHT IN THAT SITUATION, YOU WOULD BE DEMANDING ACTION FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO HELP YOU OUT, WOULDN'T YOU? YES, AND ACT HAS RECEIVED A NUMBER OF REPRESENTATIONS FROM BUSINESSES AND PEOPLE AFFECTED. I ALSO SAT ON THE COMMITTEE THAT CONSIDERED THE SEVERE WEATHER LEGISLATION, IN RESPONSE TO THAT BILL, SO WE HAVE TRIED TO CHANNEL THEIR CONCERNS INTO BETTER OUTCOMES. OK. BUT IF SOMEONE IS DEMANDING ACTION AND THEY LOOK AT YOUR POLICIES, YOU HAVE THE LEAST NUMBER OF POLICIES REGARDING CLIMATE CHANGE OUT OF ALL THE PARTIES. IT SEEMS TO GO IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. PEOPLE IN HAWKE'S BAY AND OTHER AREAS HIT BY SEVERE WEATHER ARE DEMANDING BETTER INFRASTRUCTURE; THAT THEIR COUNCILS AND GOVERNMENT DELIVER THE CLIMATE ADAPTATION RESPONSE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT AFFECTS COMMUNITIES. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE, ABOUT REDUCING EMISSIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT? THEY'LL BE SAYING, 'WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP US PREVENT THIS 'HAPPENING OR MITIGATE THAT IN THE 'FUTURE WITH THE REDUCTION OF EMISSIONS?' AND YOU HAVE THE LEAST NUMBER OF POLICIES AROUND THAT AREA. ACT SUPPORTS THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME AS THE PRIMARY TOOL TO REDUCE EMISSIONS. A GOVERNMENT CAN CAP NEW ZEALAND'S EMISSIONS, AND THEN THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME SETS A PRICE. IF PEOPLE WANT TO ADMIT MORE, THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT; IT'S ABOUT $9 OR $10 EVERY TIME YOU FILL UP YOUR CAR THESE DAYS. IT MAYBE ADDS THE SAME AMOUNT TO A MONTHLY POWER BILL. THAT'S THE INCENTIVE. I WILL GET YOU TO EXPLAIN A BIT MORE. FIRST I WANT YOU TO CLEAR SOMETHING UP FOR US. DOES ACT SUPPORT GETTING TO NET ZERO CARBON EMISSIONS BY 2050? IF THAT IS A GOAL THAT OUR TOP FIVE TRADING PARTNERS HAVE SIGNED UP TO, THEN ACT BELIEVES NEW ZEALAND MUST PLAY ITS PART. THAT WOULD BE` SO YOUR POLICY WILL BE SET BY OTHER COUNTRIES? WE CANNOT GET AHEAD OF OTHER COUNTRIES IN TERMS OF EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS IF IT PUTS AN EXCESSIVE CARBON PRICE ON OUR INDUSTRIES AND HOUSEHOLDS. DIDN'T YOU SAY RECENTLY IN PARLIAMENT THAT YOU SUPPORTED NET ZERO? NET ZERO IS AN APPROPRIATE TARGET GIVEN THAT IS WHAT OUR TRADING PARTNERS HAVE ALSO ADOPTED. WHAT ABOUT THE LAWS PASSED HERE TO GET TO THAT POINT, THE NET ZERO CARBON ACT, DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT SUPPORT THAT? ACT DOES NOT SUPPORT THAT. IT GIVES THE CLIMATE MINISTER THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERFERE IN EVERY ASPECT OF A PERSON'S LIFE AND WHAT BUSINESS DOES. ACTS SAYS WE HAVE THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME. IT PUTS A PRICE ON CARBON, WHICH KIWIS SHOULD CHOOSE. LAST WEEK HERE, WE HAD A CLIMATE DEBATE, AND NATIONAL'S SIMON WATTS SAID YOU DO SUPPORT IT. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT HE SAID. AND SO YOU'RE COMMITTED TO THE NET ZERO CARBON ACT AS WELL? ABSOLUTELY, AND ACTUALLY SO IS MEMBERS OF THE ACT PARTY. WHEN WE HAD A BILL IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE THIS WEEK, WHEN SIMON COURT IN COMMITTEE STAGE, AND YOU WERE IN THE CHAIR, JAMES, SAID THAT WE SUPPORT NET ZERO. SO HE WAS WRONG? IF SIMON WATTS THINKS THAT ACT SUPPORTS THE ZERO CARBON ACT, HE IS WRONG. WE DON'T NEED IT. IT GIVES A MINISTER LIKE JAMES SHAW THE ABILITY TO SET UNREALISTIC TARGETS, LIKE CUTTING OUR CARBON EMISSIONS IN HALF BY 2030. IF NET ZERO IS AN APPROPRIATE TARGET FOR OUR TRADING PARTNERS, WHY DO WE NEED THE ZERO CARBON ACT AND A CLIMATE MINISTER TO SET A TARGET` BECAUSE YOU NEED TO SET POLICIES FOR YOUR OWN COUNTRY, NOT JUST BASE YOUR POLICIES ON WHAT OTHER COUNTRIES ARE DOING. WE WILL GET TO THAT IN A MOMENT. I WANT TO CLEAR UP THE POLITICS OF THIS FIRST. YOU WOULD REPEAL THAT ZERO CARBON ACT, BUT CHRISTOPHER LUXON THIS WEEK CLEARLY SAID HE WON'T DO THAT, SO THAT WILL BE A PROBLEM FOR COALITION NEGOTIATIONS. IS IT? IT WON'T BE. IF ENOUGH NEW ZEALANDERS DO WANT REAL CHANGE AND PRACTICAL CLIMATE POLICIES THAT DELIVER ADAPTATION TO COMMUNITIES THAT NEED IT, SET A REALISTIC PRICE ON CARBON, LET KIWIS DECIDE, THEN THEY SHOULD GIVE THEIR PARTY VOTE TO ACT. BUT THAT MEANS THAT ACT WOULD BE THE MAJORITY PARTY. THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE` YOU BEAT NATIONAL IN TERMS OF THE PARTY VOTE FOR YOU TO GET THAT THROUGH. HE IS NOT GOING TO DO IT. ACT DOES NOT NEED TO BE A MAJORITY PARTY. WE JUST NEED ENOUGH MPs SITTING AROUND A CABINET TABLE TO DELIVER REAL CHANGE. IS CLIMATE A BOTTOM LINE FOR ACT, AND YOU WON'T BUDGE? WHAT ACT WANTS FOR NEW ZEALANDERS IS AFFORDABLE CLIMATE POLICY. I THINK WE WOULD GET AGREEMENT ROUND THE CABINET TABLE WITH NATIONAL ON THAT. RIGHT, BUT THEY SAY THEY'RE NOT GONNA REPEAL THE NET ZERO CARBON ACT, WHICH SEEMS TO BE A BOTTOM LINE FOR YOU GUYS. IT IS THE ZERO CARBON ACT, AND WE SAY WE DON'T NEED IT AS WE CAN ALREADY SET A PRICE ON CARBON. THAT IS AN ISSUE BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES, ISN'T IT? APPARENTLY IT IS RIGHT NOW. YOU THINK YOU WILL CHANGE THEIR MIND? WE HOPE THAT VOTERS WHO WANT REAL CHANGE WILL GIVE THEIR PARTY VOTES TO ACT. WITH MORE ACT MPs SITTING ROUND THE CABINET TABLE, THEN ACT WILL HAVE A BIGGER SAY IN POLICY. DAVID SEYMOUR SAID TO ME RECENTLY, WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT BOTTOM LINES, HE SAID IT'S THINGS LIKE THE TREATY AND CRIME AND SCHOOL ATTENDANCE. HE DIDN'T MENTION CLIMATE. NO, THAT'S RIGHT. ACT IS FOCUSED ON DELIVERING MORE AFFORDABLE OUTCOMES FOR KIWIS, RESOLVING OUR LONG-TERM PROBLEMS AROUND EDUCATION. IF WE DON'T SOLVE THIS PROBLEM OF KIWI KIDS ACHIEVING HIGHLY IN EDUCATION, THEN NEW ZEALAND WON'T BE SUCCEEDING IN ANY MEASURE. SO CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT A BOTTOM LINE, BUT YOU ARE SAYING YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO INFLUENCE NATIONAL, WHO SAY THEY'RE NOT GONNA REPEAL THE ACT. ACT HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL IN INFLUENCING GOVERNMENT AND OTHER PARTIES' POLICIES OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS. EVERY TIME WE RELEASE A POLICY, WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS IS THREE WEEKS TO THREE MONTHS LATER ONE OF THE OTHER PARTIES PICKS IT UP. I DON'T THINK ANYONE'S PICKING THIS UP. YOU'RE THE OUTLIER ON THIS ONE. THIS LAW YOU WANT TO REPEAL` AT THE MOMENT, IT SETS LIMITS ON HOW MUCH CARBON NEW ZEALAND CAN PRODUCE IN ORDER TO GET TO NET ZERO. IF YOU REMOVE THAT PLAN, HOW DO YOU REDUCE EMISSIONS UNDER YOUR PLAN? EMISSIONS WILL REDUCE OVER TIME AS THE TECHNOLOGY BECOMES AVAILABLE. THE GOVERNMENT HAS SET A TARGET UNDER THE ZERO CARBON ACT, IN EMISSIONS REDUCTION, OF REDUCING VEHICLE KILOMETRES TRAVELLED BY 20% BY 2035. IT IS A COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY TARGET. IT IS BECAUSE THE AUTO MANUFACTURERS CAME TO THE TRANSPORT COMMITTEE AND TOLD PARLIAMENTARIANS THAT THEY WILL ONLY PRODUCE LOW EMISSIONS AND ZERO CARBON VEHICLES BY 2030. THERE WON'T BE ANY OTHER VEHICLES TO BUY. WE DON'T NEED TO SET UNREALISTIC TARGETS AND ADD COSTS NOW WHEN TECHNOLOGY WILL SOLVE A LOT OF THINGS. THAT DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT. IN NEW ZEALAND, IN JUNE, ONE IN TWO NEW CARS WAS AN EV. BOUGHT. SO THERE ARE CARS THERE TO BUY. THERE WILL BE A LOT MORE. CURRENTLY EVs MAKE UP A SMALL AMOUNT OF OUR NEW VEHICLE FLEET, BUT BY 2030, IT WILL BE ALL THERE IS. THE MARKET SEEMS TO BE RESPONDING TO THE INITIATIVES, DOESN'T IT? UNFORTUNATELY, THIS GOVERNMENT HAS OVERDONE ITS SUBSIDIES, AND SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HANDING OUT MONEY TO KIWIS TO BUY TESLAS, AND HAVE BEEN ABLE TO COLLECT. THIS WILL DELIVER ANOTHER FISCAL HOLE, ANOTHER BUDGET SHORTFALL. IT HAS ALSO REDUCED EMISSIONS. IT HAS NOT REDUCED EMISSIONS AT ALL, BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SETS A CAP ON OVERALL EMISSIONS. IF EMISSIONS ARE REDUCED BY SOMEBODY BUYING AN EV, IT SIMPLY FREES UP THE EMISSIONS TO BE USED SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE ECONOMY. THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME- IT SETS A PRICE ON EMISSIONS, AND LETS PEOPLE CHOOSE. YOU WANT US TO SET A PRICE FOLLOWING ONE OF OUR FIVE MAJOR TRADING PARTNERS. THAT IS ACT'S POLICY. ACT WANTS TO TIE OUR EMISSIONS REDUCTION TARGETS TO THOSE ACHIEVED BY OUR TOP FIVE TRADING PARTNERS, BECAUSE ALL KINDS OF CLIMATE MINISTERS HAVE GONE TO CONFERENCES, ANNOUNCED TARGETS` LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR POLICY. WHICH MAJOR TRADING PARTNER ARE YOU GOING TO FOLLOW? THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT AND HAVE DIFFERENT PRICES. CHINA IS USD $9 A TONNE OF CARBON. AUSTRALIA, 30 BUCKS. KOREA, $5. THE EU IS ABOUT USD $100. IT IS ALL OVER THE PLACE. WHY CAN YOU NOT SET YOUR OWN PATH AS A COUNTRY? NEW ZEALAND SHOULD SET ITS OWN PATH. IT SHOULD BE A REALISTIC EMISSIONS REDUCTION TARGET THAT MATCHES THAT OF OUR TOP FIVE TRADING PARTNERS. BUT THEY'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE. YOU CAN'T MATCH ANY OF THEM. IF WE SET A CARBON PRICE THAT IS MUCH MUCH HIGHER THAN OUR TRADING PARTNERS, WHICH IS WHAT THE CLIMATE CHANGE COMMISSION AND JAMES SHAW HAVE INSISTED WE DO, ALL THAT WILL DO IS PUT A HIGHER PRICE ON WHAT NEW ZEALANDERS PRODUCE. OUR FOURTH-LARGEST TRADING PARTNER, THE EU, HAS A PRICE OF ABOUT USD $100 ON CARBON. THAT IS MORE THAN DOUBLE OURS. YEAH, BUT THEY DON'T PUT A PRICE ON TRANSPORT EMISSIONS. IF YOU COME BACK TO WHAT ACT WOULD DO AND THE BENEFITS, BY ADOPTING THE SAME CARBON EMISSIONS REDUCTION AS OUR TOP FIVE TRADING PARTNERS, THEN NEW ZEALAND CONSUMERS AND BUSINESSES WOULD BE IN THE SAME PLACE RELATIVELY TO CONSUMERS IN THOSE COUNTRIES, OTHERWISE WE RISK THIS THING CALLED CARBON LEAKAGE, WHICH IS WHERE WE PUT A MUCH HIGHER PRICE ON CARBON THAN OUR TRADING PARTNERS, OUR BUSINESSES AND HIGHLY-SKILLED JOBS SIMPLY LEAVE NEW ZEALAND, AND WE EXPORT THE SAME PRODUCTS BUT WITH HIGHER EMISSIONS. OK. WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME. THAT WAS A GOOD RUN THROUGH ACT'S POLICIES ON CLIMATE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. CLIMATE SPOKESPERSON FOR ACT, SIMON COURT. THANK YOU. KIA PAKU WHAKATA TATOU. STAY WITH US, WE'RE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. HOKI MAI ANO, WELCOME BACK. WITH 30 TO 40% OF VOTERS STILL UNDECIDED THIS ELECTION, PARTIES ARE SCRAPPING OVER THE MYTHICAL MEDIAN VOTER ` A VOTER WHO IS STATISTICALLY LIKELY TO BE A WOMAN. SO HOW DO KIWI WOMEN MAKE THEIR VOTING CHOICES? SENIOR REPORTER LAURA WALTERS FILED THIS REPORT. IT'S 130 YEARS SINCE WAHINE WON THE RIGHT TO VOTE. THESE DAYS, MORE WOMEN VOTE THAN MEN. WE'VE HAD THREE WOMEN PRIME MINISTERS, AND LAST YEAR, PARLIAMENT HAD A MAJORITY OF WOMEN FOR THE FIRST TIME. HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK LABOUR WILL WIN BY? A LOT. AS THE ELECTION HEATS UP, PARTIES ARE CHASING EVERY VOTE ON OFFER, AND THAT MEANS KNOWING HOW WOMEN VOTE AND WHY. DR LARA GREAVES IS A SOCIAL SCIENTIST WHO SPECIALISES IN VOTER ATTITUDES. AND EVEN FOR HER, IT'S COMPLICATED. IN THE LAST COUPLE OF ELECTIONS, WE'VE SEEN WOMEN MORE LIKELY TO VOTE FOR THE LABOUR PARTY. THAT GAP LAST TIME AROUND WAS ABOUT 10, 13%, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU CUT IT. SO QUITE A BIG GAP COMPARED TO EARLY ELECTIONS. IN 2017, LABOUR DID 6% BETTER WITH WOMEN THAN IT DID WITH MEN, THEN DOUBLED THAT TO 12% IN 2020. COOL. OH, IT'S REALLY NICE TO MEET YOU. JACINDA ARDERN WAS INCREDIBLY POPULAR WITH WOMEN VOTERS. MAKE SURE I KEEP SOME DISTANCE. UNDER ARDERN, LABOUR'S CAUCUS WAS 56% WOMEN, BUT POLLING SUGGESTS THE PROPORTION OF WOMEN IN LABOUR'S CAUCUS WILL DROP BELOW 50% AFTER THE ELECTION. AND WHILE NATIONAL'S LIST BOASTS 21 WOMEN IN ITS TOP 40, NOT EVERYONE IS STOKED WITH THE PARTY'S NEWFOUND ENTHUSIASM FOR DIVERSITY. AND POST-ELECTION, THE PROPORTION OF WOMEN IN THE NAT'S CAUCUS WILL LIKELY BE DOWN TO A THIRD. THE GREENS AND TE PATI ARE STAKING THEIR SUCCESS ON THEIR WAHINE, WITH BOTH FEMALE CO-LEADERS AT NUMBER ONE ON THEIR PARTY LISTS, WHILE ACT AND NEW ZEALAND FIRST DON'T SEEM TOO BOTHERED; WOMEN MAKE UP ABOUT A THIRD OF THEIR CANDIDATES. IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT LANDSCAPE TO THREE YEARS AGO. TWO FEMALE LEADERS HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY TWO CHRISES. I THINK IT'S HARD TO USE HISTORICAL PRECEDENT AND DATA IN THIS ELECTION, BECAUSE IT'S BEEN QUITE A WHILE, GOING BACK THREE ELECTIONS, 10 YEARS, SINCE WE'VE HAD TWO MEN AGAINST ONE ANOTHER. THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM IS THAT THE RIGHT HAS A PROBLEM WITH WOMEN VOTERS. I HAVE A PERSONAL VIEW, AS YOU KNOW, AS A PRO-LIFE POSITION. WOMEN NEED CONTRACEPTION EVERY MONTH. DO YOU THINK` WOULD YOU LOOK AT CARVING OUT THAT FOR WOMEN? NO. BUT THE TREND MAY BE CHANGING. ONE TOOL THAT CAPTURES WOMEN'S VOTING INTENTIONS IS THE ROY MORGAN POLL. FOR SIX YEARS, IT'S SHOWN WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO THROW THEIR SUPPORT BEHIND THE LEFT BLOC, BUT THE MARGIN BETWEEN THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT IS GETTING SLIMMER, AND IN SOME CASES, THE RIGHT BLOC HAS OVERTAKEN. HOW IMPORTANT IS THE WOMEN'S VOTE? I WOULD SUSPECT THAT ALL THE POLITICAL PARTIES ARE WANTING WOMEN TO VOTE FOR THEM. 51% OF THE POPULATION. YOU KNOW, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. I IMAGINE THAT THE POLITICAL PARTIES ARE DRILLING A LITTLE BIT MORE DOWN AND THINKING ABOUT WHAT THE WOMEN WHO TEND TO SUPPORT THEM LOOK LIKE. IN THE UNITED STATES, SO-CALLED 'SUBURBAN MOMS' ARE COURTED AS A GROUP. BUT HERE` YOU CAN'T PUT US KIWI GALS IN A BOX. HOW WE VOTE IS INFLUENCED BY OUR AGE, ETHNICITY, FINANCES AND LIFE EXPERIENCES. SO WHAT DO NEW ZEALAND WOMEN CARE ABOUT THIS ELECTION? I'M NOT SURE ABOUT PARTY CURRENTLY, BUT FOR ME, JUST MORE FOCUS ON MENTAL HEALTH. CLIMATE CHANGE. IT'S MY FIRST YEAR OF VOTING, SO I'D PROBABLY SAY DEFINITELY SEX EDUCATION IN SCHOOLS, OR MORE FREE PERIOD PRODUCTS. FUNDING FOR EDUCATION AND HEALTH. CHILD POVERTY AND COST OF LIVING. THE FACT THAT FAMILIES CAN'T PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE. IT'S DEFINITELY EQUALITY. ALL EYES ARE ON THE POLITICAL UNICORN THAT IS MIDDLE NEW ZEALAND. IT'S SHAPING UP TO BE SUCH A TIGHT ELECTION. SURELY EVERYONE WILL BE WANTING TO GO AFTER THAT GROUP OF UNDECIDED VOTERS. THERE'S SOME KIND OF MYTHICAL MEDIAN VOTER, AND THEY SIT IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN LABOUR AND NATIONAL. THERE'S SOMEWHERE, IT DEPENDS ON THE STUDY, 7 TO 11% OF PEOPLE, AND THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE WOMEN AND LESS LIKELY TO HAVE THOSE STRONG PARTISAN ATTACHMENTS. SO IT'S A SMALL DIFFERENCE, BUT IT'S STILL A DIFFERENCE, ESPECIALLY IN A CLOSE ELECTION THAT PARTIES WILL BE PAYING ATTENTION TO. WE'VE SEEN POLITICAL PARTIES COURTING THOSE VOTES WITH POLICIES AIMED AT FAMILIES; PAID PARENTAL LEAVE, WORKING FOR FAMILIES, GST OFF FRUIT AND VEG AND VAPING RESTRICTIONS. BUT` IS LABOUR DOING ENOUGH FOR WOMEN IN NEW ZEALAND? I'M REALLY PROUD OF OUR TRACK RECORD WHEN IT COMES TO WOMEN AND THE POLICIES THAT WE'VE IMPLEMENTED. ACC COVER FOR MATERNAL BIRTH INJURIES, REINSTATEMENT OF THE TRAINING INCENTIVE ALLOWANCE, CHILD SUPPORT PASS ON FOR THOSE ON SOLE PARENT BENEFIT. IT'S A PRETTY GOOD STARTING POINT, I THINK. I AM VERY PROUD TO HAVE LET MY FEMINIST SELF COMPLETELY OUT OF HER CAGE IN PARLIAMENT TO TALK ABOUT HOW IMPORTANT IT IS THAT PARENTS SHARE PARENTAL LEAVE. I HAVE BIRTHED FOUR CHILDREN, AND I FIND IT INSULTING FOR MEMBERS OPPOSITE TO IMPLY THAT WOMEN DO NOT KNOW WHAT CARE ARRANGEMENTS BEST SUIT THEIR FAMILY. SO I PROUDLY SAY THAT THE NATIONAL PARTY IS THE PARTY FOR WOMEN. I'M REALLY, REALLY PROUD OF THE LONG-STANDING, STAUNCH SUPPORT FOR WOMEN, WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND EXPERIENCES THAT WE'VE ALWAYS HAD. WE COME FROM A CULTURE THAT'S MATRIARCHAL, SO WE'RE OFTEN IN COLONISED SPACES LIKE THIS WHICH ARE VERY PATRIARCHAL, AND I THINK WE WILL CONTINUE TO REMIND WAHINE OF OUR ROLE AND WHAT IT IS THAT WE HAVE, AND THAT WE NEVER STAND ALONE. WINNING THE VOTES OF NEW ZEALAND WOMEN MIGHT BE COMPLICATED, BUT GREAVES HAS ONE PIECE OF ADVICE FOR POLITICIANS ` DON'T STUFF IT UP. IT'S NOT JUST NECESSARILY ABOUT APPEALING TO THE GROUP, BUT IT'S ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE` WOMEN DON'T HAVE A NEGATIVE VIEW OF A POLITICIAN OR PARTY AS WELL. BECAUSE IF SOMEONE HAS A NEGATIVE VIEW OF YOU, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR YOU. I MEAN, THAT'S NOT POLITICAL SCIENCE AS SUCH, BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PARTIES AND LEADERS TO NOT BE BACKED INTO A CORNER, TO NOT HAVE A GAFFE THAT BLOWS UP INTO A WHOLE KIND OF GENDER WARS ISSUE. AT THIS STAGE OF THE RACE, THE ALL-IMPORTANT WOMEN'S VOTE IS ANYONE'S TO LOSE. LAURA WALTERS WITH THAT REPORT. WELL, THAT'S ALL FROM US FOR NOW. THANKS FOR WATCHING. NEXT WEEK, PARLIAMENT WILL SIT FOR THE LAST TIME THIS TERM AND THE FULL-TIME ELECTION CAMPAIGN WILL BEGIN. CAN'T WAIT. CAN'T WAIT. NGA MIHI NUI, WE'LL HAVE ALL THAT FOR YOU NEXT WEEKEND. CAPTIONS BY KITTY WASASALA AND KATE MCCULLOUGH. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023