Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 - Tonight on Sunday ` we're on a roadie with Chris and Chris. How much are they like us, and how much do we like them? - Thanks for having us. - Great to be with ya. It's nice to be with you, Prime Minister. - Very good to be with you too John. - A nationwide audition... - People always ask me ` 'What are they like?' What are they like? (ALL PERFORM HAKA) - All prime ministers are just normal people as well. - I follow Mr Luxon on TikTok! - How do I improve people's daily lives in New Zealand? - ...for the role of a lifetime? - How much you wanna be Prime Minister? - And is the long arm of Chinese law reaching beyond its borders? - They think that they should be able to silence us through these kind of mafia-style tactics, these gangster tactics. - The outspoken critics... - TANIA BROWN: You clearly poke the bear. - (LAUGHS) In this case, I want to say 'poke the panda'. - ...in China's sights. - The idea is to make you afraid... to intimidate ` they're very good at this sort of thing. - Kia ora. I'm Miriama Kamo. These days there's little we seem to agree on ` who has too much money, or not enough? How do we tackle crime? What should we teach our kids? But six weeks out from the election, the one thing we can agree on is that the next prime minister will be a man called Chris. As the campaign ramps up, neither Chris Hipkins nor Chris Luxon is riding a wave of popularity. So for the last month, John Campbell has been following the leaders to find out if anyone is paying attention. ('PRIMAL SCREAM'S 'COME TOGETHER') - JOHN CAMPBELL: The campaign trail is kind of like a reality TV show. - # Kiss me. # Won't you, won't you kiss me? # Won't you, won't you kiss me? (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - The two men both called Chris, first prize ` leading a country. - # Come... - # Come together. - # ...together. - # Up and away, # yeah. # - How do you inspire people in ways that make them believe that you can be a transformative politician, not just a status quo dude? - I think it was Abraham Lincoln who coined the phrase that you` you campaign in poetry, you govern in prose. (CAR HORNS BEEP) - If it's poetry, it's fairly basic and kind of repetitive ` a few short words hammered, not so much Lincoln as the Energizer Bunny... (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Well done. - The ships you can see on the left there are going to be loading logs, and this is our Blythe terminal. - ...or an endless class trip with a brutal final exam. - All yours, John. - Thank you so much You. Where you`? Thanks for having us. - Great to be with ya. - It's nice to be with you, Prime Minister. - Very good to be with you too, John. - We've been with them on the road since the beginning of last month sometimes formally, sometimes we've just turned up unannounced at public events, and people always ask me, 'What are they like?' What are they like? - First of all, all prime ministers are just normal people as well. I think sometimes we look at our political leaders and the people who are on TV all of the time, and we kind of put them up` we elevate them to a level that isn't always justified. They're just human beings as well, just trying to do a good job and do the right thing. - Well, I just like` I'm a person who's wired to` I love getting the improvement right, and so if you think about` I joined the National Party at the lowest low, one of our worst election results, and it's just actually building that back has been really satisfying, and it's trying to get the best out of people is actually what I really get turned on by and get satisfaction with. So building a team has been really important and, um` and just being very focused on what we're trying to achieve. - Being with Chris Luxon... - How are you? Good to see you, mate. Thanks so much, buddy. - ...is like being on an infinite campaign rally... - I think my dad came the furthest. ...in which he's both the campaign... (DRILL WHIRRS) ...and the rally. - How are ya going? Good to see ya. - Always on... Right, so we get to do one. (APPLAUSE) -...always alert to the possibility of a wave, a hug, a beep... - Great. Oh, so good, so good. - ...seeing the team, being the team.... - Well done, you guys. - What do you do that isn't on? Like, how do you stop? - Oh... - Because by God, you go, don't you? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is` I'm up at 4.35, most` 4.30 most days, and then often not into bed until 1 at night either, so I'm quite used to that. I've always had extreme jobs in some level, but I'm ruthless with time, I'm ruthless with organisation and making sure I manage energy pretty well. - You're ruthless with cliches. (LAUGHS) - Well, no, I'm sorry if I am, but it's just` I'm sorry, but I am very focused on that. - # Half of the time we're gone, but we don't know where, and we don't know where... - Christopher Luxon wants the 9th Floor, and somewhere inside its echoing labyrinthine corridors, the PM is putting on a jacket and setting out to keep it. If Luxon has speed and sound, Hipkins has a quieter self-confidence, if that's even the right term. - Just` No. Self-confidence` It's more resilience, inner resilience, I would describe it as that. There are certainly plenty of moments of self-doubt. It's inner resilience that's more important than self-confidence, I think. Yeah. (ELEVATOR DOOR PINGS) Here we go. - Do you get used to this, Prime Minister? Does it become after a while`? - Well, they haven't put me in the broom closet for a wee while. - No. - (LAUGHS) - But is it`? I mean, is it weird? Is it strange? - Yeah, totally. Very. Yeah, it is strange. Yeah. I think they've got us in the big van. - We're heading to the football, and the sports minister is waiting. - Oh, is he? Oh goodness me, he's gonna get annoyed with me for making everybody late again. Yeah, no, I just went to look at my watch and saw that he was ringing. - The sports minister is Grant Robertson, also finance minister and the PM's close friend. - Grant and I were once in an indoor netball team together. - (LAUGHS) - We were. We were in an indoor netball team together, a vaguely successful indoor netball team, actually, Chris. - That's right. Grant was a very good defender... - Correct. - ...and when he was on attack, he was offensive. (ALL LAUGH) 'The van is both on the campaign trail and a break from it.' - Very good. - 'Once more unto the breach.' - Right. So which way are we going in? Ultimately, I believe as prime minister that I'm a servant of the people. I'm here as a public servant. I'm here to support people, to help people. It isn't actually about me. - And I'm old-fashioned. I think` I think politics is a team sport. It's not all just about me and my skills. That's important. - Yes, it is. Leaders define parties, which is why we're out on the road following them. Think of Labour after Helen Clark, they went through, wait for this ` Phil Goff, David Shearer, David Cunliffe, Andrew Little. Then they found Jacinda Ardern ` nine long years in the wilderness. After John Key, National went through Bill English, Simon Bridges, Todd Muller, Judith Collins and now Christopher Luxon. So the right leader helps a party win... and they speak to us in a way that makes us listen. - Tonight we have come to Waitangi... to mark an occasion... that founded a nation. And it founded a nation... in a way that was unique. - Your men were our men... and even if many of us know them only as names and faces and stories... their death touched our lives... and we will remember them. - Many of those who will have been directly affected by the shooting may be migrants to New Zealand. They may even be refugees here. They have chosen to make New Zealand their home ` and it is their home. They are us. - And Chris and Chris are us too, although not as resoundingly as they might like. The latest 1 News Verian Poll puts Hipkins on 21 and Luxon on 20 as preferred PM. That means almost 60% of us are looking away. Yes, they're less popular combined than Ardern and Key peaked at on their own. So they need you to like them more. But the PM has been hampered by inflation, by ill discipline in caucus and by what seems to be a strange kind of centrist caution around transformational policy. Just along the road here, we have the big energy of his opponent, which sometimes doesn't seem to know where it's going. Mantras in search of scaffolding. - And I have spent the last 20 years looking at other small advanced economies of the world, and I've visited many of them and done study tours of them, and if you go to a Denmark, if you go to an Ireland, if you go to an Israel or Singapore, and you understand why are they so much wealthier than us? How have they solved some of those problems and challenges? They have unique challenges that we don't have, but they also have things that they` - Hold on. Did you just cite Denmark, with its very high tax rates, as an example? - Well, there's` Yes, but there's lots of reasons for that. When you actually spend days actually understanding how that works as a market economy, it's quite interesting. - Except they tax the crap out of people there, don't they? - They have high tax rates, but it's a procurement exercise to` - Are you letting me in? Are you leading me on a radical policy? - (LAUGHS) - No, we are going to be the party of low taxes. Don't get me wrong there. - So if you're the party of low taxes, how can you be the party of Denmark too? - No, I'm not the party of Denmark. I just told you that I'm a believer of solving problems. Right? - Right. - Kia ora. Good afternoon, everybody. Can I just say, firstly, thank you for coming out and spending some time with us this afternoon. - Hamilton, a weekday afternoon, a full house and an audience who hang on every problem-solving word. - And that's why I've come to politics two and a half years ago, because I'm a person who spent my whole life turning things around, sorting things out, getting things back on track, getting things sorted. How do I improve people's daily lives in New Zealand? It has to be by delivering outcomes and results for them, not by spending more. I've got to spend my money. I'm going to spend more on health. I'm going to spend more on education every single year in government ` that's my commitment. - And be the party of lower taxes. - Yes. Yes. - Good luck. - (LAUGHS) (ALL PERFORM HAKA) - Waitara High School, Taranaki, where the senior students welcomed the PM and Deputy PM with a passion, pride and a sense of identity that ought to be empowering. - How do young people like this experience politics? Through fleeting visits, through decisions made and not made 350 K away, and through policies that sometimes do get in. - Waitara High is a Healthy School Lunches school, government funded... - Kia ora. - Hi. How are you? - ...the kind of programme where teachers have seen the difference that full bellies make. When the PM asked the students whether they had anything they wanted to ask him, one of the questions came from Jesse Cuthbert. - Kia ora. I'm Jesse. Um, my question was... what are your future plans to help the homeless? - Thank you. That's a really good question. - Jesse, why did you ask that question about homelessness? - Um, so, I found two girls outside of New World before, and I'm seeing them, and they're in, like, bad condition and everything. I felt so bad for them. - When we left Waitara ` the PM's van, the police escort, us ` I realised how seldom either Chris has been asked about those who are really struggling. This isn't their election so far; the fight is in the so-called 'squeezed middle', not the people crushed below. Is there a danger that by fighting for the same middle ground with National, we reduce our two biggest parties to a kind of... vanilla contest... over (BLEEP) all. - I think the values between Labour and National are quite different. We might end up talking about sort of incremental change in different directions, but the value systems that underpin those are quite different. So if you think about it, on the Labour Party` I believe that government has an active role in shaping the sort of economy that's going to create good, well-paying jobs that are going to lead to New Zealanders having a more prosperous lives in the future ` and fundamentally they don't. They actually believe the role of the state should be reduced and that taxes should be cut, and the government should deliver less. I think those are two quite significant differences, and, yep, sure, we might argue about this policy or that policy, and there'll be areas of common ground, but the value systems are quite different. - You're right. You're right about that. - (LAUGHS) - Right after the break ` family out front... - You've got a phenomenal person. I could be a bit biased. (LAUGHS) - ...or off limits. - I want my kids to grow up out of the public limelight. I want them to just be normal kids. We got a new car you have to plug in. It goes for two wee stops. (DOG BARKS) One masterpiece. And four unlucky possums! Five! VOICEOVER: Fast charge on the road and pay like you're at home. With Genesis at charge net stations. (REFLECTIVE PIANO MUSIC) - To understand Chris and Chris, it's helpful to reach back into their versions of the New Zealand childhood. These are photos of a little Chris Luxon. That's him on the right. Those sunny days of shorts and possibility... - I had a really great upbringing. I had young parents who left school at 15 and 16. I was the first to go to university. I had two younger brothers. I had a really awesome family, loving family. - ...and these are a little Chris Hipkins. The childhood memories, as they often do, contain a hint of legend now, of getting by happily without fuss... of doing good. - Oh, there's my mum, there. She was the Dux in 1964. - You know, I feel really blessed that I had that sort of start in life. - Blessings ` were they less a product of privilege then? Could people with not very much still have something? The Hipkins had a family batch. - Dad would go rabbit shooting, and we would eat rabbits for dinner. We'd have barbecues on the beach. We would roll down the hill in tractor tyres, you know, all that kind of good Kiwi stuff. (CHILDREN CLAMOUR) - I follow Mr Luxon TikTok! - Decades later, they both regularly campaign amongst children, none of whom can vote... - Go Mr 'Luxton'! - ...despite their raucous ardour. - Vote for National! - Vote for National! - Vote for National! - What's the best thing about your dad? What do you think`? What do you admire most about your dad, William? - What do I love most about my`? My dad is very` There's one word that I'd describe, Dad ` and it's 'intentional'. He's really, really intentional, Whether it's with work or whether it's with me or whatever it is, I know that I've got 100% of his attention and his focus when he's there. - 'This is the Luxon whanau, who are voting for National ` 'Amanda, to whom Chris has been married for 29 years, 'and their much-loved adult children, William and Olivia.' - I mean, he's also there just like in a great, like, mentorship and kind of advising way to help you kind of get through all of those tough moments, be it, like, academic, like, careers, like, for me, like, moving countries. Yeah, he's just super` Yeah, he's super loving, super supportive and in that we do. Yeah, he's fantastic. - Yeah. - How are you, Dad? Thank you. - Remember this footage? Well, this is Chris Luxon's dad, Graham. Amanda is there too, quietly on the left. Politicians' families are normally off limits, but the Luxons wanted to be in the story, wanted to proudly describe the man they see. - He's an incredibly authentic person, and he's a very ethical person. So you sort of get this lovely mix of someone who's skilled... passionate and genuine, and you sort of put those three things together, and you've got a fairly, you know, phenomenal person. I could be a bit biased. (LAUGHS) (BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN'S 'START THE FIRE') - New Plymouth ` one of those crisp, still mornings when your skin knows it's real. The PM arrives for a business breakfast accompanied by the police escort prime ministers always have. Whatever we think of politicians, they are as human as we are. While the Luxons chose to be in this story, Chris Hipkins keeps his much younger children off camera, off limits. He's the politician, he always says, not them, his parental instincts notwithstanding. - Well done. Actually, I think all politicians put themselves forward to be public property. I get that. I put myself forward to be public property. That doesn't mean everybody around them gets to become public property. I want my kids to grow up out of the public limelight. I want them to just be normal kids. I want them to be able to make mistakes as kids make without having 5 million people looking over their shoulder, and, you know.... I want them to live lives of imperfection the same as everybody else does, and I want them to be able to learn and grow, and so I've made the decision not to make them public property. - William, do you know who this man is? - He's got no idea. - Children, endlessly, orchestrated in much-photographed visits that are both highly political and designed to persuade us that politics is benign, aspirational, cuddly. Nicola Willis has been prominently at her leader's side; both Chrises have female deputies. But make no mistake, our next PM will be a man ` again. A total of 41 people have been prime minister of this country beginning in 1856. 38 of them have been men ` 38... which means we've had three female prime ministers in 167 years. And how many of our PMs haven't been Pakeha? The answer is... none. - CHILD: Do your hands like this. - Yeah, do your hands like this, please. - OK. - No, you have to do that. - Yeah, you have to do that. - Oh, like that? Yeah? - Are we ready? - Yeah. - Sometimes on the trail ` particularly with children who had no idea who they were ` both Chrises looked almost ordinary, truly lost for a moment in the simplicity of the present... (CHILDREN SHOUT, PLAY) ...but none of this exists independent of the power the two Chrises are after. And while they campaign alone, they almost certainly will not govern alone, as the colours of the crayons remind us. Yes, MMP is a coalition fun bus, unless the driver says, 'You can't get on.' - So on that basis, I am ruling out working with New Zealand First and Winston Peters after the election. I'm very good, thanks. How are you? - Good, thank you, sir. - Last weekend ` perhaps responding to a growing concern that his leadership has been lacking cut-through or edge ` the PM visited a Wellington market, smiled a lot, then showed some teeth. - I believe that a change in government now would not be good for a large segment of New Zealand society ` that includes our rainbow community, it includes our Maori and Pacific people and includes those on low incomes. - The squeezed middle is being left behind the squeezed middle. - The squeezed middle. - The squeezed middle. - The squeezed middle. - TOGETHER: The squeezed middle. - On Wednesday, National announced its tax policy ` a spring in their step, because tax cuts are popular with their recipients, which would be... - The squeezed middle. - Less for the 'even more squeezed' below the middle' ` people on the minimum wage ` and essentially, nothing for beneficiaries, but there was more for landlords. - We will fully restore interest deductibility for rental properties. - But I can hear people watching this saying, 'You are a landlord!' So you are a beneficiary. You are a direct financial beneficiary of precisely the system that you are railing against. - Yeah, but, John, I think that's really unfair. You know, just because I've been successful` And do you seriously think I'm here to advance my cause... - Not at all. - ...because I have an investment portfolio that has some rental properties in it, right? - No, but you are speaking against a system that you are a beneficiary of. Are you able to lead us out of that? - Absolutely. What I'm trying to demonstrate to you is ` I think in my two and a half years of watching government and being in politics, it is unique in the sense of there is lots of ideology and solutions that goes roaming around with lots of bumper stickers and slogans and trying to attach to a problem, and in my world, you define a problem really clearly, confront the brutal facts of the reality, and then you put the plan in place to deal with that. - So, it is Wednesday afternoon. National have just announced their new tax policy, and the prime minister, accompanied by his press secretary, are walking towards the awaited media to give his first public response to it. Now, what he's going to say is it's underwhelming. What he's gonna say is if you're on the minimum wage, it doesn't mean very much to you. What he's going to say is it's smoke and mirrors ` but at least it is a policy. Are you too cautious? I mean, is that why Labour have fallen from a position of being able to govern on your own for the first time ever in an MMP environment to 29% in the latest 1 News Verian Poll? I mean, have you been to risk averse? - No, well, the tax policy that we're putting out, for example, is the same as the tax policy we had at the last election when we did win a majority. It is a reflection of the fact that we are a responsible government, and, you know` - Responsible or cautious, too cautious? - Well, I think` I think you have to be... To be responsible, you need to make sure that you're very carefully considered in the decisions that you make. - But don't you have to lead people somewhere to the hope or expectation that if they vote for Labour, their lives will improve? Where are the signs of that now? - Absolutely. I do believe that you have to lead people to a better future. - We have a spending problem in New Zealand. We have a government that has just spent 80% more in government spending. They spend $1 billion extra every week in New Zealand. You know, the National Party's view that you can cut your way to prosperity, I think, is just fundamentally wrong. Tax cuts are not gonna mean much to someone who's just lost their job because the government has cut back on spending in order to fund those tax cuts and cut a whole lot of public services in the process. - So on they go, and on, town after town, interview after interview, fuelled by a diet the National Heart Foundation probably wouldn't tick. - (LAUGHS) - LAUGHS: Do you like sausage rolls really? - Look, I do love sausage rolls; I've almost reached my quota for a wee while. Like... People are lovely, and it's a sign of New Zealanders, I think, that they love to embrace those kind of quirky little things. And so everywhere I go, I get given sausage rolls, so I've put on about 5 kilos. I reckon about 4 kilos of that's been the sausage rolls that I've eaten in the last little while, and the other kilo is the lack of exercise that I've had since I took on this job. - Pepsi max! - Yeah. - How many of those would you drink a day? - Well, I've come off them a little bit, John, if I'm honest. (LAUGHS) - LAUGHS: Have you come off the Pepsi Max? - I was going through a few too many, if I'm really honest. - How many were you going through? Oh, I could do four or six a day ` and that's not good. - Yeah, it doesn't make you Jim Morrison from The Doors? - No, no, (LAUGHS) it's not exactly Jim Morrison of the Doors. No, I mean, To be honest, two years into this job, I had a good look at myself a few months back, and I thought, 'Hmm, no, you know the routine now, sunshine.' - The routine, both sunshines know it, and out they go ceaselessly ` sausage rolls, Pepsi, tax cuts, focus groups and polls. Chris vs. Chris ` six brutal weeks to go, and at the end of them, a man called Chris will be PM. - Well, John Campbell has written more on this story, which you can find on 1news.co.nz. And don't forget, we'll have the first leader's debate ` the two Chrises going head to head on Tuesday September 19th at 7pm on TVNZ1. E whai ake nei ` they spoke out against China, now China is striking back against them. - It was horrible. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Scary. I always am looking over my shoulder. - This is quite a bit of effort... for a supposed superpower to go to. - Hoki mai ano. China has little patience for criticism within the country; opponents of the communist regime are simply not tolerated ` but is Beijing pushing this approach beyond its borders? Allegations of illegal police stations outside of China have sparked real concern. And tonight Tara Brown investigates the worrying new tactics China is using to intimidate foreign nationals who dare to speak out. - How's that? Is that better? OK? - TARA BROWN: The worst thing Andrew Phelan has ever done is accumulate a few minor speeding tickets. Taking care of his frail and elderly mum keeps him well and truly on the straight and narrow. - I was sitting in my chair, and the blind was down, and I saw footsteps coming. - So when, on Australia Day this year, he was suddenly arrested at his Melbourne home, he was in deep shock. - Four armed police in plainclothes with an arrest warrant, reading out what were very serious criminal offences. China's been very good at exposing our soft underbelly, which is... - Andrew, a television commentator and keen critic of the Chinese Communist Party, was taken to his local police station. - Does anyone else have access to your phone? - Uh ,no. - He was accused of sending a violent email threatening to rape and kill a Chinese-Australian journalist. (INAUDIBLE) In that moment... - Yeah. - ...what was that like? - Surreal, incredibly confronting. It was horrible. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. - It was during this police interview that Andrew heard for the first time the vile words he was accused of writing and sending in the email. - READS: 'So you got back to China, bitch. 'And if you don't, I'm going to come find you, 'pound your yellow (BLEEP), cut your throat.' - Oh! - 'At least then, you'll bleed red in colour of the CCP, you bitch.' - I would never ever in a month of Sundays use that kind of language to a woman or anybody else. Yeah, I mean, it upsets me hearing it again. It makes me so angry. - What makes you angry about that? - That this is done from the shadows anonymously. - But he's in no doubt who's responsible. - I believe that this has been done under the auspices of the MSS, China's Ministry of State Security. Yeah, I do. I believe they're targeting Westerners that have been critical of the CCP in the public square. - After lengthy questioning, police accepted Andrew was not the author of the email. The message certainly did not come from his email address, and he was not charged. But Andrew's terrible experience is not unique. Monash University academic Kevin Carrico is the victim of very similar tactics. - What I was not prepared for... was the ongoing harassment, sending, you know, horrendous messages to random people. - Like Andrew, a sexually offensive email was recently sent in his name to a Chinese journalist in the UK, ongoing punishment, Kevin assumes, for daring to write two books critical of the Chinese Communist Party. - It says, 'How is the BJ of white folk going?' BJ here of course refers to, um... oral sex. - Kevin took a more direct hit when another fake email was sent to nearly 70 people in his department saying he quit. - This is quite a bit of effort for a supposed superpower to go to to harass a lowly lecturer in Melbourne. - At the ripe old age of 24, human rights activist Drew Pavlou is a veteran at attracting the attention of Chinese authorities, even on home soil. - I was annoying them a lot with my protest, and I knew that would make me a target, but I didn't realise that they were gonna try a bomb threat, and I didn't realise that they were gonna have me arrested as a terror suspect. - Last year, Drew was arrested protesting outside the Chinese embassy in London after, it's alleged, the regime made a false bomb threat in his name Until it was established Drew had not made that threat, he faced 12 years in jail. - The police said, 'We received an email in your name,' and I just stood there stunned like a` like a stunned mullet. - In a six-month period, Drew received more than 40 emails threatening to kill him, which he's tracked back to a mercenary working for the Chinese Communist Party. - To be honest, it did really knock me out for, you know, a good chunk of the year. Like, it's... tough to admit that` that in a way they kind of won that round. - If that isn't bad enough, Drew's mum, Vanessa, is now in the crosshairs. This ludicrous email was sent late last year to major shopping centres in Brisbane in the hope one would reach the boss of the shop Vanessa works at. READS: 'She's running an illegal prostitution service and is a cocaine addict...' - Yeah. - '...and whosoever shall terminate her first 'will receive remuneration. The method doesn't matter.' Scary. - I always am looking over my shoulder ` if I'm walking to my car, if I'm` You know, I'm always aware. I'm a lot more aware, but I just try a live normal life, because otherwise they win, don't they? - Yeah, I mean, this is your home, Vanessa. This is your country, and you're being threatened like this. Well` - Where else are we supposed to go? That's the thing. This is our country. This is where we were born. - So along with fear, how much anger is there? - Well, to me, I get angry. They think that they should be able to silence us through these kind of mafia-style tactics, these gangster tactics. - Well, this intimidating approach appears to be on the increase everywhere. - This kind of brutality is spreading all over the world. - READS: Anyone who offends China will be killed no matter how far the target is. - So no matter how far you are in Australia and America and Europe, if you 'offend China', then they will be killed. - ALL: Hooray! - Hip hip! - Hooray! - Happy birthday, mate. - It's your bowel screening test. I've done mine. - WOMEN: Me too! - Uso, you've got this! # Pull the stick from the test. # Put it in the poo. Just follow the pictures... - Koro. You can 'poo' it! - # Put it in the pottle. Put on the date. # Don't delay or procrastinate. (ALL CHEER) # Early detection can save the day. # - On strict condition of not revealing his whereabouts so as not to expose him to danger, political artist Badi is showing me his work in progress as he prepares for a major show in Poland. - Safety is not really an option, and I just have to be very, very cautious. - Badi, who lived in China for 20 years before exiling to Australia, is considered an enemy of the state for his art, which often daringly paints the Chinese communist leader, Xi Jinping, as a tyrant. You clearly poke the bear. - (LAUGHS) - Your art is very graphic and not at all complimentary. - Um, no. (LAUGHS) In this case, I will say 'poke the panda'. Yes. I think, to be honest, the worst part of China is we have this very authoritarian regime ` and now this kind of brutality is spreading all over the world. - Badi says Chinese authorities have put so much pressure on galleries here he can't get his work shown in Australia. Inside China, the artist's family has been targeted and interrogated by authorities. The human rights defender has had to cut ties with loved ones to keep them safe. - The Chinese authorities want me to giving up making art, or the consequences, quote unquote, as they say, 'There will be no mercy to me.' - But you did not give up. - Yeah, because I do not believe that you can exchange... freedom for your safety. - Do you have any ideas who's actually sending you these? 'Badi says to ensure his safety and survival, he must constantly move between cities and countries.' This sort of stuff ` (READS) 'I really should beat you to death.' 'But staying in the shadows doesn't stop the almost daily death threats, 'which Badi is certain come from China.' READS: Anyone who offends China will be killed no matter how far the target is. - Yeah. So no matter how far you are in Australia and America and Europe, if you 'offend China', then they will be killed. - You will be killed? - With its very long arm from China, Yes. - That long arm reached into Poland with officials from the Chinese embassy in Warsaw demanding Badi's latest art exhibition be closed down. The gallery operators refused to be intimidated. How is it that China, with all its power, can be so wounded by someone like you? - Um, it's this insecure feeling among all dictators. They have turned themselves into this control freak. They cannot trust anyone. - So even if it's one voice, even if it's one individual, they will crack down on them like they're at war with them, at war with you? - Exactly. - And that war has been stepped up to an audacious and terrifying new height with the discovery of a secret Chinese police force operating throughout the world. - It is almost unthinkable, and it's definitely designed to be monitoring, harassing and creating some kind of intimidation against anyone who wants to criticise the Chinese government. - 21-year-old Wang Jingyu, who lives in the Netherlands, has first-hand experience of this secret force. He fled China four years ago after posting his support for Hong Kong democracy. Operating out of Rotterdam, the overseas police station tracked down the young dissident to repeatedly harass him. - Every day, the Chinese overseas police stations make over 100 times phone calls to me. - Jingyu says he was bombarded by calls to pressure him to return to China. What would happen to you if you return to China? - I think, probably, I will go in prison. Yeah, it's very terrible. - Back in China in 2021, Jingyu's parents were taken into custody to pay for the crimes of their son. How long were your parents detained for? - It's over... one year, yeah, over one year. - And are they safe now? - Actually, I don't know. I don't know anything about my parents. To be honestly, I don't know where is my parents. - Are you ever tempted to be silent to make your life easier? - Uh, no. I will not, because, you know, if I accept this, and the Chinese authorities will think this plan is work, and` and they will use this plan to attack another Chinese dissidents. So I will not do this, yeah. - E haere ake nei ` a number of these so-called police stations are discovered all over the world. - The Chinese national police appear to have been using the station to track a US resident on US soil. - That's the whole purpose of this ` that it's covert, and that it's secret. - But is it dangerous? - The demand for such services are very legitimate. - Nau mai ano. When it comes to China, the long arm of the law is very long. Critics of the CCP have found themselves on the receiving end of tactics ranging from the bizarre to the outright intimidating, but not just in China. There are deep concerns that illegal Chinese police outposts are cropping up in other countries. - TANIA BROWN: In an extraordinary escalation that ignores international law or borders, China now stands accused of running a secret police force in 53 countries around the world. It's believed there are more than 100 of these individual stations, and they operate in the shadows ` out of restaurants, private homes and small businesses. - We have to say that our borders are not up for negotiation, that you can't come and operate behind our borders. - For Senator James Paterson, the head of our Foreign Interference committee, the emergence of these police stations is a shocking clandestine incursion. - That's the whole purpose of this, that it's covert, and that it's secret. - The Chinese are certainly happy to acknowledge the existence of what they call 'Chinese overseas police service stations.' - WOMAN: Currently, the Wenzhou Public Security Bureau has established 20 liaison points in 11 cities, including Vancouver, Sydney, Paris and New York. - These stations were all set up by the Public Security Bureau, which is the police department in the city of Wenzhou. - This is what the Chinese authorities, public security authorities in China, say they have done. - Laura Harth is the campaign director of human rights organisation Safeguard Defenders. Using open-source material collected from the Chinese web, Laura's team last year uncovered more than 100 police stations. China proudly claims they're designed to provide services to Chinese nationals living abroad, as well as catch criminals who fled the mainland ` but the fact they were set up without the permission of many host countries makes them illegal, and in Laura's view, a dangerous front for so much more. - The public security bureaus that have been setting up these stations, these are really the police authorities within the People's Republic of China. - But according to the Australian Federal Police, those Chinese police stations are not active here. - We don't have that situation in Australia. - And if your organisation became aware of it, you would act on it. - Correct. - Why is there suspicion then that there are two in Australia if we're being told there are not? - It should be crystal clear one way or the other. And it would be unusual, if you think about it, that Australia was one of the only countries in the world that didn't have any of these sites operational. - But Victor Gao, a former foreign affairs diplomat for China, doesn't know what all the fuss is about. He maintains the police stations are there mainly to provide to the overseas community the same admin services carried out in China, for instance, renewing driver's licences. - I would say that the demand for such services are very legitimate... and very normal. In China, you do need to have access to the Ministry of Public Security or the provincial municipal bureaus to get certificates, for example, in order to make sure that your daily lives are not disrupted. - It's just unusual, isn't it, and quite... unique that China, of all the nations in the world, requires this system; no one else does. You don't have Australian police stations in China. You don't have American police stations operating in China to supply the citizens with driver's licences. - Major countries like Australia and the United States should also realise that lots of services need to be provided to the Chinese communities. - News of the Chinese overseas police stations made world headlines in April this year when the FBI shut down one operating in Manhattan... accusing two men of harassing and intimidating a US resident. The pair has been charged with conspiring to act as agents for the People's Republic of China. - The Chinese national police appear to have been using the station to track a US resident on US soil. - Victor Gao unashamedly argues, though, that as well as providing administrative support, it's the Communist Party's right to track down and return to China criminals from anywhere in the world. The point, Victor, is you've not been invited into these countries. You're operating without them knowing ` a) it's illegal, but b) it's completely unacceptable. - If countries cooperate, it's an easy job. If they don't cooperate, then I think you need to understand why sometimes they go to the extreme to find out who these criminals are, where they are, what they have done. - So what you're saying, Victor, is if the host nation doesn't cooperate, you're coming anyway. It doesn't matter. - Well, between China and Australia, China and the United States, for example, such government-to-government cooperation is not in the best shape, and sometimes you run into difficulties, but the demand for such services still exist ` and how do you provide such demand? And also to hunt down criminals. - There's this sort of sense of impunity or arrogance that they can go around the world doing what they like. - Andrew Phelan, who dared to criticise China and invoked its fury, is equally outraged about the discovery of this shadow police force. He's being strong-armed by death threats and smear campaigns by the Chinese authorities to silence criticism. But Andrew refuses to be cowed by these dirty tactics, and he says it's imperative to protect those in China's sights. - The idea is to rock you. It's to shake your foundations. It's to make you afraid... to intimidate, to coerce. They're very good at this sort of thing. Will it work ` in my case? No. - Yeah, so, last year New Zealand was also identified as a location of a so-called Chinese police outpost. Our national security officials investigated the claims but couldn't find any evidence that one was operating here. Well, that's our show for tonight. You can share your thoughts with us on social media, or if you have a story you think we should investigate, our email is sunday@TVNZ.co.nz, and of course, you can find our stories and shows online at TVNZ+. Thanks for joining us this evening. Nga mihi nui, hei kona.