- Tuia i runga, tuia a raro. Ka rongo te po, ka rongo te ao. I te korero, i te wananga. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e! This week on the Hui. A bitter dispute over an iconic waka hourua is threatening to become a legal stoush. - What do you do with people that won't talk to you? - And data shows rheumatic fever numbers have risen to pre-COVID rates. Medical anthropologist Anneka Anderson joins us in studio to discuss this deadly disease. Plus, age is nothing but a number. We meet the koro from Fielding who has proven it's never too late to learn your reo. - Mena ka taea a Koko, koro ranei ka taea e koutou. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023. - Nga mate o te wa, e piki ki runga i nga waka wairua o koutou matua tupuna ki te po. Haere mai, haere! Tatou e hapai ka ana i nga manako o ratou ma. Tihewa Mauriora! Kia tatou katoa, and welcome back to the Hui. The waka hourua Tairawhiti was created as a celebration of Maori and Polynesian sea voyaging history. A dream brought to life by Gisborne-based waka hourua expert Aturangi Nepia-Clamp. But this waka is now caught in stormy waters with concerns about its management and upkeep. Mea nei te purongo a John Boynton. - JOHN BOYNTON: An iconic waka hourua, bringing traditional sea voyaging matauranga to Te Tairawhiti. - It began with a desire to do something in my lifetime to enhance waka voyaging. - Now the subject of a bitter dispute. - We aren't allowed onboard the waka, and that hurts us. - There's enough room there for two of us. - It's really disheartening. (INTENSE MUSIC) (WONDROUS MUSIC) - It was a dream that began 33 years ago with this waka prow. So, the dream was always to bring waka hourua here to Tairawhiti? - Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. That was a very strong dream of mine. When I was carving this, the ancestors gave me that dream and pretty much told me, 'That's what you've got to do, boy.' So that's what I did. - When you look at this tauihu, what does it represent for you? - It's a powerful statement of our voyaging ancestors, what they were able to achieve ` exploring, discovering and settling the largest ocean in the world. - The waka hourua ` or double-hulled canoe ` is at the centre of Polynesian migration. - They would travel from Aotearoa back to the Pacific, and it was just, like, their normal route. - Te Aturangi is a waka hourua navigator and builder. - This was their highway back to the Pacific. (APPLAUSE, WOMAN CALLS KARANGA) - In 1992, he was a crew member on the waka hourua Te Aurere. Led by the esteemed waka navigator Sir Hec Busby, they sailed from Aotearoa to Rarotonga. - (CHANTS IN COOK ISLAND MAORI) - A voyage which reignited traditional Polynesian navigation. Then, at the dawn of the millennium, he led a waka flotilla here in Te Tairawhiti. - We had 22 waka being sailed and paddled out of the sunrise, and that image went worldwide to 1.6 billion people. - But he could never shake the dream his ancestors first gave to him. - A desire to enhance waka voyaging. - What Aturangi has always had, really, he's had the passion. And when he spoke to us about it, you could feel his passion coming through. That's why there was never any hesitation in giving him the support. - In 2011, he started to put together his plan to build a waka hourua for the people of Te Tairawhiti. - It's important to remember that you can't do anything by yourself. People need each other in order to make something happen. - Together with his supporters, Te Aturangi formed the Tairawhiti Voyaging Trust. How much funding did you need to secure to build the waka? - Over $1 million, and we were able to achieve that with fundraising. - In 2016, the build for the 72-foot waka hourua began. - As the CEO, it was my job to deliver, really, to make sure that the waka build stayed on track. - After a year, the build was complete. The highlight of any waka is seeing it coming down the skids. Seeing it entering the water. - And in 2017, that vision came to life when the waka hourua Te Tairawhiti first sailed into the waters of Turanga Nui a Kiwa. - The life of a waka begins when it's launched, and it's sitting in Tangaroa, and they become one. - And in no time, the waka was up and running, becoming a floating classroom for local schools. - It wasn't a matter of coming for a ride. It was a matter of getting your hands into it and pulling lines and learning how to sail the waka. - And also an award-winning tourism venture. - You've got huge trees, 30 people holding hands around a tree, and then you've got chickens at 9ft high. You can feed a whole village. - That tourism offering that we developed achieved gold Qualmark status. The first and only gold Qualmark that has been awarded to a Gisborne tourism offering. We had volunteers that were coming every weekend, happy to do the maintenance, become part of a voyaging family. - Today we're meeting with some of the kaumatua who've become a part of his voyaging whanau. - Kia ora. - I went for a ride and... that was the ride of my life. - There were some gang members down on the wharf and they were looking over the fence and asking us about the WAKA. and Te Atu says 'Haere mai', and brought them on board. And they were just overwhelmed with the stories of how our tipuna had sailed here. - But memories are all they have for now. - There's a saying about sailors, that when you get salt in your veins, you really need to be on the ocean. - They haven't been able to set foot on the waka for three years. In 2020, Te Aturangi no longer had confidence in the Tairawhiti Voyaging Trust. - I disagreed with the way that the trust was being operated, just with a very narrow focus on school education It was all people of the Tairawhiti who are interested in this kaupapa. - He stepped down from his role as chief executive. Te Aturangi says since he left the trust, he hardly ever sees Te Tairawhiti out on the water. Instead, it spends most of its time sitting in a marina. - There's a whole lot of people that are waiting for the opportunity to get on the waka. - Te Aturangi, along with former crew members and kaumatua, set up another trust ` the Waka Voyaging Trust. Although they have no rights in the waka hourua, they hoped to work together with the Tairawhiti Voyaging Trust, who still retain full ownership. - We've asked for board-to-board meetings for two and a half years now to collaborate, to share our skills, knowledge and resources. - But Te Aturangi says all requests to meet have been ignored. - Koira te tikanga o te Maori. Kanohi ki te kanohi, whakatakoto nga awanganga i runga tepu ana me korero tahi tatou. - Every month for two and a half years, I've hosted this korero, and enough is enough, as far as I'm concerned. - People in the community just can't believe it. They can't believe that a Maori crew aren't allowed on a Maori waka. - Ko Sierra Nevada toku maunga. - Since Te Aturangi left, there's been a number of overseas skippers on the waka. - It was being operated by a Spanish skipper. Tairawhiti Voyaging Trust had passed over three or four Maori skippers that we have available. This is a Maori kaupapa. Some have said to me, 'Well, maybe it's a modern day version of colonisation.' I don't know. Is it? I can see` Just from here, I can see different parts of the waka that need maintenance. - Today, Te Aturangi and his former crew are visiting Tairawhiti at its berth at Gisborne Marina. - It breaks your heart to see... a waka that we've really... spent a lot of time and energy and... wairua just being neglected like this. So, you can see the mast needs sanding and varnishing. - Te Aturangi says they've volunteered to maintain the waka for free. - You can see various parts of the waka that clearly are standing out as being damaged and weather-beaten and... not maintained. It's shameful. We put so much love into our waka. - The Waka Voyaging Trust has sought legal advice to gain access to the waka. - And we didn't want to, but what do you do with people that won't talk to you? - Does it feel disrespectful? - To our waka, yes, most definitely. - We've sought an interview with the Tairawhiti Voyaging Trust in response to the concerns raised by Te Aturangi and the Waka Voyaging Trust. However, they've declined to be interviewed, nor have they provided any statement to us. In response to a legal claim made by the Waka Voyaging Trust, They say ` (LIGHT MUSIC) A lengthy court battle could be on the cards. - If Tairawhiti Voyaging Trust are viewing this, meet with us, please. Let's come up with a plan to get our waka hourua kaupapa back online. - A waka which came to life from the dreams of his ancestors. - It's about the kaupapa, which is bigger than all of us, and we have to keep that in mind. This was started with our ancestors. We're simply just carrying it on. - And our thanks to Norm Heke Productions for the use of their documentary footage in John Boynton's story. Taro kau iho ana e nga iwi, what's behind the worrying surge in rheumatic fever cases? I'll be joined in studio by Dr Anneka Anderson to find out why it's a disease that hits Maori hard. I'm the other Louis Hamilton, from Rotorua. Skinny hired me to tell you about their low-cost broadband. Get Skinny Unlimited Broadband for just 45 bucks a month when on a $27 or above mobile plan, plus get 2 months free broadband. (DEVICE CLICKS AND BEEPS) (SIREN WAILS) Heya. Oh, no, the goose is getting me! MAN OVER RADIO: Car 51. Yeah, CMH One Alpha receiving. Hey, look, reason I pulled you over is you've been speeding. MAN: I was only a few k's over. WOMAN: Same speed as everyone else. Come on, bro! I wasn't going that fast. How about you catch some real criminals? A few k's over. I'm not hurting anyone. (HORN BLARES) Hey, look, reason I pulled you over is you've been speeding. (GENTLE MUSIC) - Tena koutou katoa kua hoki ora mai nei ki ta tatou Hui. Rheumatic fever is a disease that's rare in most wealthy countries, but in Aotearoa this year, rates of this seriously debilitating illness are rocketing up, particularly amongst young Maori. Dr Anneka Anderson, he uri no Kai Tahu no Kati Mamoe, is a senior lecturer at the University of Auckland and specialises in Maori health, and joins me now. Te takuta, tena koe. - Tena koe. - Thank you so much for your time. OK, give us the numbers. How badly have cases of rheumatic fever risen this year? - Kia ora, Julian. It's a bit pouri, really. We've got 85 cases that have been reported from ESR in the last six months. So that was from January to June this year. - How does that compare to last year or in the most recent years? - Well, we had 38 cases all of last year, and this 85 are just for the last six months. So we're not tracking well at all. - What is the cause for this rise in numbers? - Yeah. Ooh, it's complicated. I wish I could just say, 'You know what? It's due to this.' But I think, ultimately, we've got a number of intersecting inequities for Maori and Pasifika when we look at rheumatic fever. We've got a cost of living crisis. We've got a housing issue in Aotearoa New Zealand. We've got huge issues with accessing primary health care. And I think underlying all of this we've got this systemic racism for Maori and Pasifika that's impacting living, that's impacting income, that's impacting quality housing, education. And all of this is coming together at the moment. And we're seeing this quite prominently with a number of health outcomes, including rheumatic fever. - So you would have heard some political parties who do not support the idea of prioritising Maori, Pasifika, over the rest of Aotearoa, if I can put it in those ways, and obviously, I'm paraphrasing there. So, what's your response to that? Can we deal with these` this rise in numbers if we don't prioritise? - If we don't prioritise, we're going to see those numbers increase. And I'd say that attitudes like that is what's killing our tamariki and our rangatahi. I mean, the reality is a one size does not fit all. We've got a colonial-designed health care system at the moment that's not working for Maori. We saw that with Covid. Once we get Maori providers working with Maori communities, we saw a difference, and we'll see that with rheumatic fever. So we have to have Maori-led initiatives for Maori, and I imagine for Pasifika too. This 'one health for everyone', I think, is just blatant racism because we know that 'one health' here is for Pakeha, and that's not going to benefit our mokopuna. - You mentioned Covid. What impact, if any, has Covid had on the rise in rheumatic fever cases now? - Yeah, it's really hard to tell that because what we didn't see through Covid was whanau being able to present, say, to school health systems where they get their throat swabbed because tamariki weren't at school. And with the differential diagnosis, if you had a sore throat, you had a Covid test, you didn't have a swab that could see whether you had strep or not, which is a precursor to rheumatic fever. So I think we're getting delayed presentation in access to health care through Covid, and we were expecting perhaps to have a little bit of a rise from that. But in saying that, we're also not getting tamariki at school where there could be transmission and we also had masking up and washing hands. So it's quite complex to actually find out what was happening through Covid on rheumatic fever. - OK. What are, or where are, the communities, the hotspot communities, for rheumatic fever? - Yeah, sadly, when we look at the numbers, over half the numbers are in Tamaki Makaurau, here in Auckland, and particularly in Counties Manukau. And we've seen that historically has been very strong. The latest data is also showing that Wellington is very high at the moment, highest rates in what we've seen. Also for Waikato and Bay of Plenty. - High Maori population numbers, high Pasifika population numbers. Can I come back to the point that you made earlier ` and you made a direct challenge, I think, to politicians here... - Ae. - ...about their approach in terms of their health policy and dealing with issues like this. Can we deal with this issue in the way in which we've seen a political response to other issues, actually? - Yeah. Well, I think the way we deal with health really shows where our values and priorities lie. I think if we had a whole lot of Pakeha children in Remuera dying of an infectious disease, we'd see huge political campaigns and resourcing into it. But we're not dealing with that. We're dealing with Maori and Pasifika tamariki. So, I think looking at local politics at the moment, we're seeing that housing crisis could be impacted greatly if we're going to let foreign investment come in. If we have a 'one health for everyone', that's also going to have really deficit impacts. So I think that we should be really concerned at the moment over what's happening in politics for the health of our tamariki. - Yeah, this is an election year, (CHUCKLES LIGHTLY) right? And it seems to be that cost of living is the main issue here. Why is rheumatic fever not one of the big hot button issues that is being talked about politically at the moment, do you think? - I think it's because we're looking at who is affected. It's Brown tamariki. As I said before, that would be my wero that I'm throwing out. When you're going to develop drugs and you want to make a profit, you need people who can purchase drugs. So it's not going to be profitable to target drugs for populations that perhaps don't have the economic advantage that we're seeing with rheumatic fever. - You've made it very clear, and that's a direct challenge, actually, to a lot of people who may not agree with you on the point that prioritisation is the way to deal with this particular issue. But what you're saying is that without the political will and action, more rangatahi, more Brown kids will die? - Absolutely. - What do you say to people who would say that that... prioritisation isn't the way to do this? - I'd say, 'Show me the evidence. Show me the data.' I mean, we've got years and years and years to show that 'one size fits all' disadvantages Maori. - OK. - We've also got evidence to show that a 'for Maori, by Maori' approach advantages Maori. - And the Rheumatic Fever Roadmap that was launched in June of this year, talk to us about that, and is that working? - Yeah, so what I like with the Roadmap is it's really comprehensive. I think it's the first road map we've got that looks at these key structural issues that we're talking about. It talks about the systemic racism that we have in Aotearoa and addressing that. It talks about addressing housing. It talks about addressing sectors outside of the health care sector. So, I think given time and investment, that could work. But as you said, it's a political year, and we don't know what's going to happen. - Dr Anneka Anderson, tena koe. - Tena koe. - Nga mihi nui kia koe. That was, of course, Dr Anneka Anderson. Stay with us. E maianga ake ana i tatou Hui. Thousands of adults across Aotearoa embracing the opportunity to learn te reo Maori. But it's not always easy, especially if you are older. That's why Pauly Hillman, who took up study in his late 50s, is an inspiration. - Kia whakangungua ra koe ki te whakarua kaka kia mau a koe, ko to tatou reo, hei oranga reo, hei runga tangata ana hoki. Learning te reo Maori is a hard road for everyone, but for those picking up the language later in life, it's even tougher. Tuhoe and Ngati Raukawa Pauly Hillman waited five decades until he took the plunge. Working nights at the meatworks and with the support of his marae, he recently graduated with a Bachelor of Te Reo Maori. Meriana Johnson sat down with this humble rangatira. (ENGINE HUMS) - MERIANA JOHNSON: Every weekend, you'll find Pauly Hillman here tending to his turangawaewae, Taumata o te Ra marae. - It's a wonderful thing, your love for your marae. - It's a laborious job, taking five hours to do all the lawns and gardens. But it's his way of giving back. - My love and my thoughts have grown for my marae, for things Maori. - Like so many of his generation, he grew up without his culture. - We grew up, in my view, as a normal family, living in the Pakeha world, loving being in the Pakeha world. As we grew into young men and had our own families, We sort of drifted away and did our own things. You know, I have to honestly say I didn't make time to go to those things. - It took almost 50 years until he was finally given the push to go for it. - My whole journey starts with boy Jayden saying to me when I come back from Australia after living there for 20 years, saying to me, 'Dad, will you learn the reo for us ` your kids and your mokos?' And I remember sitting there, and we were having a kai together, and I was just quite taken back by that. I didn't know what to say, but I said, 'Yep, yep.' - Jayden, why was it so important for you, for your dad to learn te reo Maori? - Well, I thought if he was to learn, then it would make, you know, myself, my brother and sisters and all our family, you know, gravitate back to the marae. Those are all our children there. - Jayden and his siblings felt the weight of being disconnected from te ao Maori. - You know, like, we'd come back from overseas and attend tangis, and you feel a little bit plastic, You know, like, you'll come back and I'll be there, and I was thinking, you know, 'I hope my dad one day, you know, 'we'll be able to stand on the marae, to uphold our mana.' (POIGNANT MUSIC) - So, Pauly began his journey to learning his whakapapa and reo, alongside his cousin, Kim Tane. - He was my inspiration. We were both returning to our marae with the understanding that it was our marae. Our mum and dad's love this marae. Our nanny and koros were part of this marae, so we were just starting our journey back. And tragically, my cousin, he died on his Harley. It was very hard. It still is. - In spite of this mamae, he stayed true to his promise. - I will carry on for my cousin. Always having my cousin close in my heart with things that I do now. - And so it began. - Oh, I didn't know if I could do it, you know. - He joined Heke Poutuarongo Reo, a full immersion te reo Maori programme at Te Wananga o Raukawa. - Tena koe, e hoa. - For the first year, he was pretty quiet. - I te wa, i kai ahau kaore e titiro na te mea, ka korero te tangata ki ahau i roto i te reo Maori, ka kai ka` (LAUGHTER) - And in his classes, he was also struggling. I te nuinga o te wa, e ki mai, i tera tau, oku pukenga 'Kei te marama a Pauly?' 'Kao.' - But his teachers backed him. - E ki mai oku pukenga, i te wananga o Raukawa, kaua e whakama. He tino korero, patua te taniwha whakama. - And if learning a new language in his late 50s wasn't hard enough... - Tena koe, Nicky. - Kia ora, Pauly. - ...after clocking out of the classroom, it was straight to the meatworks. - This is my bread and butter. - Cutting up carcases into the early hours of the morning. A lot of people couldn't stomach it. - It's hard work, but you know, you've got to do it. I was tired a lot - getting up, having a shower at 6.30, heading off down to the wananga at 7. - What was the thing that kept driving you? - That down the line for my children and mokopuna, that there would be something I could share. Not tell them, definitely not tell them, but share with them. - His determination was recognised by head pukenga of te reo at Te Wananga o Raukawa, Angie Stretch. - E haerere mai ana ka hoki atu i a te ra ao te po, i a te wiki, i a te marama, mo te rua tau. Ka ngenge ahau te matakitaki atu te koroua ra. Engari ia he tu whakaiti hei tu rangatira. - And eventually, his hard work paid off. - I didn't think with his learning that it'd go as big as it has gone. Like, he's inspired all of us on our own reo journey and our own journeys in te ao Maori. - Ngati Raukawa, a Paul Craig Hillman. (AUDIENCE CHEERS, APPLAUDS) - He's given our family more mana. (ALL PERFORM HAKA) - Engari, he haerenga mutunga kore ` this is a journey with no end. - My journey's just started. Ahakoa he koroua ahau. Ono tekau ma taki oku tau, he pepi ahau i roto I te reo Maori me ona tikanga. - Ka tau ano koe korero mo to taua, ne, ka raua nga pukapuka. - He's now turning his attention to learning his Ngati Manomano whakapapa from his cousin Jerald Twomey. - Paku awhina i a ia paku noa iho nei. He manawa titi to taku tuakana nei mo te reo te whai te reo Maori. - And there's still more whakapapa to be learned. - There's a whole new world on my father's side. So, that's another journey, a massive journey. Kei te hiakai koe? - He's leading by example and laying down the wero for his mokopuna. - Mena ka taea a Koko, koro ranei ka taea e koutou. - E kare, Pauly, tena koe. Whakawhitiwhiti a kei anei te reo rangatiratanga to tatou reo. Coming up next week on The Hui - (SPEAKS IN TE REO MAORI) - (SPEAKS IN TE REO MAORI) - (SPEAKS IN TE REO MAORI) - You'll find links to our stories on our social media platforms ` Facebook, YouTube or at newshub.co.nz. Kia mau ki te turanga o Taputapuatea. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e! Captions by Kate Harris. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023. - Ko te reo te take. - Na Te Puna Whakatongarewa Te Hui i tautoko.