(CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Hello, Kiwis. I'm Paddy Gower, and I have got issues. On this show, we investigate issues big and small that are important to all of us. Tonight ` it's called sextortion. And if you aren't worried about what happens when your kids share naked photos online, then you damn well should be. And Karen O'Leary investigates ` in a vaping epidemic, why can Quitline help you quit smoking, but they won't help you quit vaping? Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 Tonight, I've got an issue with sextortion. It's a crime. You might not have heard of it, but it is actually happening a lot more than ram-raids. And the consequences are truly frightening. It's about our kids and our young people taking nude pictures of themselves and sharing them and then getting blackmailed because of them. We are gonna meet some of these young people tonight. It leads to shame; that leads to anguish, anxiety, fear and depression and potentially much worse than that. It is the latest online scam, and it's a massive problem. Here are some figures that we can reveal tonight from Netsafe. From practically no sextortion reported back in 2020 to almost 250 cases a month right now. 250 a month. And that's the ones who report it. Now, if you are a parent and you think that this isn't happening or couldn't happen to your kid, you need to get real and watch this, because this truly is an issue for all of us. Tonight, I'm lucky to be joined by my great and long-time friend and Newshub reporter extraordinaire, Juliet Speedy. Karen O'Leary is here as our community investigator. And our gun news deskers ` pew, pew ` are here as well ` Courtney Dawson and Eli Matthewson. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - It's such a intense issue. I'm so glad that when I was a teenager I didn't have a cameraphone. You know, on my Nokia, the worst I could send was just an 8, an =, an = and then a capital 'D'. (LAUGHTER) - OK. An... Oh! (LAUGHTER) All right, enough of that. We're gonna get underway with that sextortion issue now. And Juliet, you know, what did you find when you started looking into this? - Well, Paddy, look, I think we all know that devices one of the sort of battlegrounds for parents these days. I'm a mum; I'm battling them every single day. But until I started looking into sextortion, I really had no idea about it, and what I learned, and particularly about how common it is, really shocked me. - Yeah, it certainly freaked me out as well. And I went to meet a young woman called Sophie ` that's not a real name. Legally, we have to protect her identity. And I was truly freaked out and blown away by what she went through and her strength. - I'm 13 years old, and today I'll be talking about how everything has impacted on me. - How did all this stat? - Um... Well, when I was friends with her, she asked me to send a nudes, and she would send back. She said... send for send. - A few months ago, this young girl says her friend pressured her into sharing nude photos. She sent two ` one of her top half and one of her bottom half. Send for send is what her friend called it. You send one; she sees one back. - Yes. - But she didn't seen one back. - Yes. - And she kept yours. - Mm-hm. And she saved it to her camera roll. - What did she do with it then? - The next day, she went and hung out with the other girl, and they started sharing it around together, sharing it around all schools. - And what sort of social media were they sending it around on? - Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter. And then people started getting a hold of it and started bullying me and making fun of me and saying stuff to me about it. - Whoa. And did the police become involved? - Yes, the police have been involved cos of what it's done, because it's exposure to my body, and I'm a child. - She has written a statement to the two girls who are alleged to have shared the images. - 'Ever since this has happened, I have not been wanting to go to school, 'because I feel like people are talking about me. 'When it happened, I felt really uncomfortable and insecure about my body.' - And how many people saw it, do you think, roughly, like...? - Probably over 2000 people saw it. - Everybody you know. - Mm-hm. - Even my friends now, they even seen it, and my family and stuff. - Your family ended up seeing it. - Mm-hm. - What, like your sisters and that? - Yeah, my sisters, my nana and... them. - Your nana saw it? - Yeah. And she sent it to my mum and said, 'Look what my granddaughter's doing.' - And why did you do it? Just... - Because of what she was saying to me and threatening me and stuff. Just, like, peer pressuring me to do it. 'I really thought I could trust her, but I was wrong. 'This has made me hate myself because when it happened, I thought it was my fault, 'but at the same time, it was also her fault. 'I'm saying this because you have really damaged me and my life. 'I loved you so much, but I can't any more.' - As well as sharing it, one of the girls is also alleged to have set up a fake Instagram account to sell the nude images. - She put my nudes up on the account, and she put, 'Anyone want to buy these?' And so she got a message from, I think, this guy in India. And he said, 'I would like to buy those for money.' And then she... said, 'All right.' And then that happened. - So you've been a victim of sextortion, haven't you? - Yes. - And why have you done the interview? And why are you speaking out publicly? - Because I don't want anyone to know that I'm ashamed when I'm really not. I'm not ashamed to be a victim of sending nudes and my body getting sent around New Zealand, because it happens, and that I need girls and boys to know that... if you've done it, then it's a mistake; it's not your fault. (APPLAUSE) - Wow. You know, I mean, I'm lucky to have got to interview that young lady. I have interviewed a lot of people. But I have to say, in terms of courage, she is right up there near the top. You know, at the time when I interviewed her, she felt like she had lost control of her life. And what an epic way to bring the power back, Sophie. Amazing. - What a brave woman. And all I can say is Sophie is the winner here now. I'm sure there was a time when she was at her most vulnerable, but by speaking out like that, she's now the one in control. - Absolutely. As the parent of a 12-year-old son, I mean, that's the kind of thing` He needs to hear that kind of stuff and to know that this is existing and is happening out there. - Yeah. And in terms of sextortion, it's a real sliding scale, and that's at the cyber bullying end of it. But it goes right out to scams, which is what you'll be investigating tonight, Juliet, and if there was anything in what Sophie said or brought up ` any issues for you, you can always phone or text 1737 for help. Now, Karen, in terms of help, who have you been helping this week? - Well, I'm gonna start off with a couple of questions for you, Paddy, OK, that are important for me. - I like these. - Say you're a smoker and you wanted to give up smoking, where do you think you might go for some help? - Look, if I wanted to get off the darts, I would probably call Quitline. - Right. OK, what say you weren't smoking darts; you were just being a vape lord, you know, on the vapes. (LAUGHTER) You wanted to stop vaping. Where would you go then for some help? - Look, if I had become Vape Lord PG, I would I would call Quitline as well and try and quit. - Ah, you'd think so, wouldn't you? But, unfortunately, for my best friend Dave, he found out that Quitline couldn't offer him the help that he needed. - Dave, thanks for coming to meet with me. Help yourself to the Louise slice, obviously, at any time. First things first ` what is your issue? - That Quitline won't help me stop vaping. - Right, so you're a vaper. - Mm-hm. - When did you start vaping? - When I was at a party, and I just saw that everyone was vaping, and then I tried it, and then I just got addicted. - Did you have a hoon on someone else's vape? - Multiple people's vapes. - You were vaping up a storm. - Yeah. And I know you're gonna say, 'Do you think it was cool?' And the answer was, yes, I thought vaping was cool. - I don't know that you need to guess what I'm gonna ask you. - (CHUCKLES) OK, sorry. - Do you still think it's cool? - Not now. - OK. Apparently, you've got a new person that you've made in your house. Is that correct? - Yep, little baby, Holly. - How old's Holly? - 3 weeks old. - OK, so do you want her to become a vaper? - No. - OK. Do you think she wants you to be a vaper? - No. - I'm presuming she can't talk yet. She's 3 weeks old. - She doesn't do much. - I'm sure she does. She grows and... and learns, so you've got a big role to play as a parent. When you have tried to give up, how did that go? Tell me about it. - I called Quitline once before, and they were saying, 'Oh, yeah, we can give you some lozenges and some gum and some patches, 'and you decide what you want,' and I was like, yep, that's cool. So I tried that, and I did that for maybe... I think I did about 60 days off the vape. And I was like, that's awesome. - Did you do it with the lozenge, the patch or the gum? - I did the gum and the patch. But the patches make you have weird sex dreams. - Sorry? - They have weird sex dreams. Like, really graphic. - Like` Like what? - Like, really graphic. (BLEEP) Things I've never done before. - There's another phone number you can call for that. - (LAUGHS) - You've reached out to Quitline. What did they say? - Well, Quitline said to me that they don't give out nicotine patches or gum any more. They stopped doing that a couple of months ago. - To anyone? - Well, they do it for smoking cigarettes, but not for vaping. - So if you're a vaper who's never been a smoker... - That's it. You're on your own. The only help that you can get is try doing breathing exercises. - Did you think about taking up smoking and then saying, 'I am a smoker now, and I'm also a vaper?' And then you could have got the nicotine patches? - Yes, I was thinking of putting a durry in my mouth and sending them a photo back. - Yeah. - But I didn't, because I just don't wanna... They're good people, but... - They are good people. - ...they just don't help vaping people and only vaping people, you know? - Yeah. Do you want some cake? - Yeah. - OK. I'll get you some. (COMICAL MUSIC) There you go. You can hold the fork. Wow. That's impressive. - Would you like some? - Love a tiny bit, yes. A corner. I'm not your child. OK, fact of... (LAUGHS) This is ridiculous. 'All Dave needs is his gum and patches, minus the weird dreams. But Quitline's change their tune.' I can see this is an issue, and if it's an issue for you, it's an issue for me. So leave it with me. I'm on the case. - Thanks, Karen. - Thank you so much. You can take that. - Wow. Wow. - Yeah, so just to clarify again, obviously Quitline did use to be able to offer the patches, the gum, the lozenges or whatever, but they no longer do that. If they were able to still do would only cost you about $5 for a two-month supply. But if you're having to go to the pharmacy or to your GP, you're looking at more like 200 bucks. And I also just` That's a lot of money. And I also wanted to clarify that those sex dreams that Dave talked about were slightly shocking, but also they are a real well-known side effect of the patches. And I'm actually wearing a patch right now... (LAUGHTER) ...just to further my investigation. I'll let you know how that goes tomorrow. - Yeah, you really do take these undercover investigations too far sometimes. Coming up ` Juliet meets the young man who made one mistake, and five minutes later, he was being blackmailed. And there is a long road for Karen to get Dave help quitting vaping, but she will not rest until she's done it. (APPLAUSE) Again. (GRUNTS) (TOASTERS CLICK) (VACUUM HISSES) (OVER SPEAKERS) Again. Again. Again. (TENSE MUSIC) (SIGHS) Crust condition identical. Expensive power made toast. Cheap power made toast. It's all toast. (VOICE DISTORTS) It's all toast. (FEEDBACK WHINES) Again. Same energy. Probably cheaper. (MONITOR BUZZES) (CHOIR SINGS) # Frank! # (TOAST CRUNCHES) (VACUUM HISSES) It's all toast! (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Nau mai, hoki mai. I'm Paddy Gower, and this is Paddy Gower has issues with me, Paddy Gower. Now, tonight's issue is sextortion. And we are about to meet a young guy who says it changed his life in just five minutes. But first, my news deskers ` it's election time, and I love this time of year, cos I get to say this ` there are just three days to go. So an election low down, please, but no mention of that filthy swear word that starts with 'W' and rhymes with Winston. (LAUGHTER) And actually is Winston. - Look, Paddy, I can't promise he's not gonna come up at all. But this week we did wanna focus our attention on the two people who could be leading the country. It's Chris-mas on New Zealand Has Issues. (APPLAUSE) - As this Saturday draws near, all eyes have been on Christopher Luxon's big flashy tax package. - He said it would give the average family 250 bucks a fortnight, but it turns out that isn't quite accurate. And now everyone is saying these two words. - I think that we've been really clear that it's an 'up to' figure. - Those words 'up to'. - We've always said 'up to'. - And it's up to... - ...say 'up to'. - The words 'up to' doing a heck of a lot of heavy lifting there. - Oh, it looks like they're all practising for the text they're gonna send Winston on Saturday night. - That's right. (LAUGHTER) By the way, I am up to 6ft tall. After all the cash mix-ups, Luxon was desperate to show people he's really good with money. - You're gonna get $14 change. - Luxon pulled out a 10, a 5 and a 1. Oops. Hang on. That's 16. - $14. There you go. - Thank you. - Wow. Look at how quickly $14 becomes $16. Inflation is going nuts. (LAUGHTER) - You know, what's amazing is how a man who used to run an airline wouldn't be allowed to cash up at Glassons. (LAUGHTER) - Meanwhile, Chippy is back out of isolation and back on the campaign trail, and it's going... - ALL CHANT: Let's go, Labour, let's go. Let's go, Labour, let's go. Let's go, Labour, let's go. - Oh no. Did he give them all COVID? They seem a bit fatigued. (LAUGHTER) - You know, the pitch and the timing of that chant really shows why Labour needs the Maori Party. - That's right. It's been a rough campaign for Chippy, but at least he's been treating himself. - Totally lapping it up. - Savouring every second of freedom with treat after treat. - His insatiable campaign appetite... - When was the last time you had a salad? (LAUGHTER) - I don't remember. - You know, sometimes I think we shouldn't be on a news desk. And then I see an actual real reporter ask the Prime Minister about salad on the week of a general election. - To be fair to Chippy, not remembering the last time you ate a salad it is the most relatable he's ever been to me. Back to you, Paddy. (LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE) - Let's go, news desk... let's go. Let's go` No. More energy. More energy. Back to our main issue, sextortion. Exactly how does sextortion happen? Well, let's go behind the issue. (APPLAUSE) Now, the official definition of sextortion is... So where do they get these images from? Well, usually the victim themselves. One study says that about 80% were taken and shared by the victim. And you'd be surprised by how many kids share this sort of picture every single day out there. Back in 2017, a Netsafe survey found the number of teenagers in this country who had shared an explicit picture of themselves was just 4%. That was six years ago. Netsafe hasn't asked that question since, so we did a survey of our own ` an informal one on our social media, and that number came back at 42%, 10 times greater. Nearly half the teens now tell us that, yes, they have shared nude pics. Now, there are four main ways that the New Zealand police tell us sextortion has happened here. In 60% of the cases that police have investigated, the criminals used a fake social media account to gain confidence and got victims to share a photo of themselves. Now, in about a quarter of the cases the cops investigated, the criminal got the victim to show themselves naked on a webcam and then secretly recorded them. This is called capping, which basically means screen capturing. 20% of the time, the police found that the explicit images were stolen by hacking into a computer, and sometimes the criminal was bluffing ` just pretending to have naked pictures. Now, remember the graph that I showed you at the start of the show? Reports of sextortion to Netsafe have absolutely skyrocketed. Well, the cops have been telling us the same story. They told us that last year there were 27 reports a month. That's one per day ` quite a lot. Has it changed this year? You betcha. It has doubled. 58 reports a month to the police so far in 2023. And remember that this could just be the tip of the cyber iceberg. These are just the people who overcame the embarrassment and the shame and actually went to the New Zealand police. How many stay quiet? Well, nobody knows. Now, what about the money? Well, the police tell us that most people refuse to pay. Only 27% of people actually pay up. And as far as the cops know, the total is only about a 150 grand. But, of course, the real cost is the devastating shame that this crime inflicts. So who are the most vulnerable? Well, this gets really interesting. Those reporting overwhelmingly are young men under 24 years of age. And Juliet is gonna meet one of these people now at the place where this sort of thing happens ` university. - Yeah, well, this is my first couple of weeks at university, so I thought I just already screwed up my whole career. Yeah, I was quite worried that whole night. I didn't sleep much. - Jack's trying to get into medical school next year and was very worried after a late-night flirtation online took a sinister turn. - It started with me messaging a girl from Auckland University. Or they said they're from Auckland University. And it just started with just talking about studies. And then the next day it started to turn a little bit. - Sexual? - Yeah. She started by sending me photos of her face, and then she was asking to send sexual photos back and forth. And then as soon as I sent one, that's when they started... sending threats. - And what were the threats? - They basically gave me about five to 10 minutes to send them $500 otherwise, they were going to send them to my course, which was my health science office. And they had the email for that, cos they'd asked me what my course was and what university I'm at. - In five to 10 minutes? - Yeah. So they're trying to crank the time pressure on so that I wouldn't have much time to think about it. So I tried to call the police, but I couldn't get hold of them at that time of night, cos it was, like, 2 in the morning, and I wasn't an emergency. So I called... my parents to ask them what to do, which was (CHUCKLES) not fun. - No, that's... - No, it was a bit embarrassing. - He didn't send any money, which police and Netsafe both say is key. Jack's is part of a generation that shares nudes online. How common is it? - I'd say that nine out of 10 of my friends would have done it at some point, whether it was someone they know or someone they don't know. - Did you have any idea that sextortion was such a big thing? - No, I'd heard of it, but I never realised it was so common until after this has happened to me and I've been in contact with other people. - After chatting to Jack, I went to Otago University student magazine Critic, who investigated a cluster of sextortion cases on campus. - The issue that this story was in was here, issue four of this year, our National Geographic parody, Nine students have reported being hit with a sextortion scheme in Dunedin over the course of one week. But how many people, even here on this campus, have been victim to this exact same scam, and we've never even heard of it happening? You know? - Yeah, cos I feel like there must be a lot of probably young men in particular that haven't shared what's happened to them just out of deep shame or fear or embarrassment. - Agreed. I think` Like, there's this big conversation going on, I think, in the country right now about, like, young men's mental health specifically, and I feel like that's something that this scam really takes advantage of. - Police also wanted to talk to us to highlight this growing issue, so I met with the head cop from the Office of Child Exploitation in Wellington. - We're currently averaging 58 instances reported to us a month, which is over double what we had last year in 2022. We're finding that the majority of our victims, 74% of them, are actually male. - So, where are you finding most of the offenders are based? - It's quite challenging, but a significant number of our offenders are based abroad, overseas. - Yeah, so are you sort of hamstrung as to what you can do when the offenders are overseas? - So when that's the case, we reach out to our partner law enforcement agencies in their jurisdictions and make referrals, which we've made a number of them this year already, seeking their assistance. And if we identify any offenders in New Zealand, it's followed through so that we can hold these people to account. (APPLAUSE) - So, Jack did the right thing by calling his parents, as embarrassing as that would be. But, look, like a lot of online scams, sextortion, it can hit anybody. Jack's a smart guy. He's trying to get into medical school. But these scammers are sophisticated. And as the police said, they're operating all over the world ` whole call centres out of Nigeria doing just that. - Yeah, and what I picked up from Jack there was, you know, nine out of 10 of his mates are sharing nudes online, either with people they don't know or they do know. And I guess as someone older, you know, I've got a real sort of prejudice about that, cos, you know, I'm kind of like, that looks like it's nuts to me to do that, but it is actually normal. - Look, Paddy, as spokespeople for the youth, I can say it's pretty normal, especially if, like us, you've been in a long-distance relationship. - Yeah, or even a medium- or close-distance relationship and just being bored. (LAUGHTER) - I'd just like to say on behalf of people that are our age, come on, we all know that we all send nudes. - OK. (LAUGHS) (LAUGHTER) - I-I don't. - Well, that backfired. Coming up ` this man is on a crusade to protect our kids from sextortion. Juliet gets his strong and simple message for parents. And Karen is at Quitline HQ demanding answers. Why won't they help people like her best friend Dave quit the vapes? (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Welcome back to Paddy Gower Has Issues. I am Paddy Gower. Now, every week I find something that I'm not worried about at all, so it is time now for No Issues. Now, I tried to do this one last week, and it actually was so hard, I needed an extra week. But tonight ` and this has been a massive investigation ` I've got no issues with Winston Peters. - No. Look, Paddy, That's two weeks in a row. - No, no. Sit down. Sit down. I can do this. Hear me out. Hear me out, because like it or not, it looks like Winnie P is coming back. Now, I do know him, so let's try and find some positives about him. So, I searched for a long time, and one positive is that Winston has got a new dog, a rescue dog called Kobe. And anybody who rescues a dog, even if it's Winston Peters, and one as cute as Kobe, I have got no issues with. Now, another is that Winston helped me make the man that I am today. Yes, you did. Yes, he did. On the night of the 2017 coalition deal, I went out drinking with him. I got so drunk that I missed work the next morning, and that night led to me giving up not only political journalism, but also drinking. I literally wouldn't be sitting here at this desk today without him. So thank you very much, Winston. Thank you, Winston. (LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE) You helped shape this little part of the New Zealand media, and I hope that I have made you proud. Now, I've also got no issues with Winston's call for a royal commission of inquiry into the independence of the media. But hang on, Winston. That will be very expensive for the taxpayer. I have a solution ` we could sort it all out. Me and you, Winston, tomorrow, with one-on-one jelly wrestling, and we will see once and for all who is the most slippery. (LAUGHTER) Now, I've also got no issues with 'taking back our country', even though I don't know who we are taking it back from, and even though I did not know that it had been taken. But even if it hasn't been taken, Winston, let's take it back just to be 100% sure that we've got it back. I have got absolutely no issues with that. And don't forget, this is not Winston's first 'ro-day-o', and I've got no issues at all with the way that he pronounces rodeo 'ro-day-o', even though, Winston, that's not how it's pronounced. By the way, you should watch Winston's campaign ad where he says that. It's an hilarious 'vi-day-o'. All right. So, some positives there about Winston. I hope that they help you try and forget the race-baiting, the instability, the chaos, and I like this word because I made it up myself just for him ` the cantankerocity. That's why I've got no issues with Winston Peters, other than the lots of big issues that I've got with Winston Peters. And that will be the last time that I swear on this show tonight. And we'll move quickly on from the W word to the V word. How are you getting on with your mate Dave and his vaping issue? - Yeah, well, obviously I realised I did have to go to Quitline to see what was going on. And so now it is time to see part two of the best documentary about vaping this channel has ever seen. So I'm back in my hotel now to do some research, and I happen to have a pirated copy of Paddy Gower on Vaping. The documentary was incredible, and I definitely watched the entire thing. - PADDY GOWER ON LAPTOP: Manufacturers of propylene glycol and chemical safety agencies recommend that you avoid inhaling it, yet propylene glycol makes up around half of the vape liquid. - LAPTOP: You're gonna back that, Paddy? - And after my extensive research, it was time to go to Quitline and demand answers. Before you get started I just wondered if you wanted to` I hope you don't mind, but... - Space man. - Yeah, I mean, I prefer they call them space person, but... - Notice they don't have the little red ends any more. - Why do you think that is? Mm. - Well, it made it look too much like a cigarette. - How would you describe the kaupapa of Quitline? - Supporting people on their quit journey - To quit... - Quit smoking? - Specifically smoking? - Yes. - Did you used to be a smoker? - I did. - Was that before or after you joined Quitline? - Before. Well before. - So, Dave, I've actually had my own kind of initiative. I just wanted to run it past you. I wanted to start up my own line, which is called a Just Don't Start line. - OK. - So what do you think? I mean, maybe we could have a bit of a go at that and see if you think it's, you know...? Hello, this is Don't Even Start line. Karen speaking. - Oh, hello, Karen. Um` - Don't even start! Just don't even` Don't do it. It's not worth it. - OK. - Thanks for your call. - Thank you. - Did you find it helpful or a little bit aggressive? - Both. - Cos actually, my best friend, Dave... - Good name. - Yeah, well, you're` I was gonna say, you're also my` you're, like, the second best Dave friend I've got. Now, he is a vaper. - Yes. - And he wanted to support to stop that. He's just had a new baby. - Yes. - He rang up Quitline, and he found that they couldn't really offer him any help or support. Why? - OK. It depends what sort of support you're talking about. At the moment, we're at a stage where, unfortunately, we can't offer nicotine products, like patches, gum, lozenge. - Patches, yeah. - Why we can't do that... Um... Yeah, that's above my pay grade, but rather than talking about what we can't do... - So, I went above his pay grade, and Quitline told me... - What about if you just lied to say you did used to be a smoker. - Mm-hm. - Then would you be able to access those products? - Well, then you would have to keep up that lie, which can be hard work. - I used to smoke... Uh` Um... 17 a day. Could be stressful, which would lead you into vaping or starting to smoke for real. I just need the patches, the gum... - But there's so much more to the quitting journey than the nicotine. That's one part of it. So, what we can do to support is a strong focus on behaviour. - Changing routines. Yeah. - Changing routines, changing habits. Cos you can do a great job to quit smoking, vaping, but unless you're changing those habits, those habits are gonna remain... - And it'll come back. - ...even if they're sort of lying under the surface there. - OK, well, routinely, I would end this interview by saying, 'Thank you very much for your time,' but I'm gonna change that by just leaving. - OK. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Yeah, so, as I worked out, basically, Quitline was obviously established to help people stop smoking, and then, obviously, as vaping increased in popularity, vapers started ringing up Quitline, and originally they would give them the NRT ` those patches or the lozenges. But then obviously they had to talk to Te Whatu Ora, who give them their money ` Quitline, this is ` and they said, 'Well, no, actually, it needs to be approved by Medsafe,' who are the drug people. And so then cos it hasn't been assessed by Medsafe, they won't` It's a lot of vape smoke and mirrors. - Oh God. Stop, stop, stop. - Lot of vape smoke and mirrors. - Yes. Oh yeah, yeah, it is. It is vape smoke and mirrors. And it's also otherwise translated as bureaucratic crap. - Yeah. - And, you know, we're in a vaping epidemic. People need to give up. They should have cheap access to that. You need to sort this out. - Well, you need to wait until part three where I do exactly that. - OK, coming up ` as Karen sorts this out, she talks to two large fake men and some normal-sized real men. Which one will agree to her demands to help people quit vaping? And Juliet's investigation leads her to this crusader who says keeping your kids safe could mean changing your device rules right now. (APPLAUSE) (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Nau mai, hoki mai. Welcome back to Paddy Gower Has Issues. I am Paddy Gower himself. Now, there are two big decisions being voted on this Saturday ` one right here in New Zealand, of course, and one across the Ditch. So, I have tasked my news deskers Courtney and Eli to explain what the hell is going on over in Australia. - You're right, Paddy. In Aussie, they're about to vote on a referendum called The Voice, which we're gonna tell you all about in this week's World Has Issues. So, what is The Voice? Well, it used to be a B-grade singing competition with spinning chairs. But now it's a simple yes or no question. They're asking Australia if they should amend their constitution and establish an advisory board for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. So, imagine just a bunch of flatmates holding a flat vote as to whether they should listen to anything Steve has to say ever, all while sitting right next to Steve, in Steve's room. - There are loud arguments on both sides. The Yes camp is making some pretty good points, which I've summed up as, 'Uh, duh!' The constitution of Australia currently makes no mention of their indigenous people, which is kind of like if the constitution of this show didn't mention Paddy Gower. - Whoa! - And they've got some big supporters, like, literally massive supporters. They flew over Shaquille O'Neal to help make this point ` and prove how short the Prime Minister is. And now Eli will tell you about his favourite side, the No side. - Uh, it's not my favourite! Um, let me explain. The No campaign, which they call the (AUSTRALIAN ACCENT) 'Noarr' campaign, has a few different groups. And it's not just the Nazis, but they're definitely there. The conservative politicians say it will cause division, as if that doesn't already exist. Also in the mix, though, there's progressive indigenous voices, who believe this is too late and doesn't go far enough. And finally, there's also people who are still angry about the vaccine and think this is somehow anything to do with that. - So, good luck, and godspeed, Australia. And just a tip from over here ` if you write your founding document in two different languages, make sure they say the same thing. - That's right! Back to you, Paddy. - I'm just working on our show constitution. I don't know if you can see it over there, but it's a blank page, because I do not like rules. CHUCKLES: All right. Thank you, news deskers. I think I understand The Voice much better. Now, Juliet, help me understand sextortion a bit better. Where did your investigation lead you to next? - Well, I went and talked to a guy who was a concerned parent, and that concern has turned him into a bit of a crusader. He's gone from trying to protect his own kids to now trying to protect kids all over the country. And his advice is pretty confronting because he takes a bit of a hard line. - We have a basic rule in our family that if our kids are gonna go to someone else's house, we'll contact the parents first ` either give them a phone call or just fire through a text and say, 'Hey, just wondering what devices you have at your house, and do you have filters in place?' (CHUCKLES) Yeah, it can be a difficult conversation because you've gotta try to do it without sounding like an arsehole, right? Like that parent, yeah. - (CHUCKLES) So how did this whole journey start for you? - Back a few years ago, the kids were asking us, like, 'Can we have smartphones? Can we have tablets? 'Can we have gaming consoles?' Like, all of it, right? And we were like, 'Before we give you anything, we're gonna research this.' So we researched it, and we researched it, and we ended up travelling halfway around the world interviewing some of the world's leading experts in this field, cods we're those people. And we ended up putting a documentary together about it. - There are predators on the outside looking in that see everything our kids are doing online. - CHILD: He started saying to me, 'Hey, send me a picture of you.' And so I did. - The FBI estimates there are 750,000 child predators online. - Rob Cope now uses what he's learned to teach other parents. - All of that led to giving talks in schools. There was a massive demand. Like, the main issue principals seem to have is parents not protecting their kids online, and the schools constantly having to deal with the fallout of that. - He's booked out months in advance, travelling to schools all over the country. - I've given this talk a couple of hundred times now, and sometimes I still get emotional over stories because it's` you know, at the end of the day, I'm still a dad, and these stories are affecting our kids. I feel like I'm getting emotional now. It's weird, but, yeah. - Tonight we're at Waterloo School in Lower Hutt. So, Rob, what's the key takeaway you hope parents will get from tonight? - I think the main thing I always want parents to know, like, this is the reality of the online world your kids are growing up in. It looks nothing like the '70s, '80s '90s, or even the 2000s. - Do you think most parents are getting it wrong? - I think most of us parents, we're the first generation of parents who are having to deal with this issue, and we didn't realise how bad it was and how out of control it's become. And that's what I hope to turn the tide on. What our kids are facing online, like, it's never been seen before. - What is the reality? - Predators hunting for children, like, constantly hunting for children on... (SIGHS) all the social media apps, and our kids are easy prey because they're alone on their device, and predators know exactly what to say. But I would say in New Zealand, probably about nine out of 10 of our families do not have adequate filters in place to keep our kids safe. But once your kids hit probably about 10 or 11 years old, you need to have the discussion, and you need to say, 'Hey, we've given you unfiltered access to the internet. 'I'm sorry, I've dropped the ball as a parent. I shouldn't have done that. 'I didn't realise how bad it was out there. So now we're now going to put filters on all the devices, 'and we're going to protect you.' When I learn new information... - Rob's advice is staunch ` no gaming, phones with strict filters, no social media, no searching the Internet, not even for older teenagers. - And the kids sometimes will be like, 'But that's not fair!' And you're like, Yeah, suck it up. Life's not fair.' (LAUGHTER) I describe it as a three day war. So, kids can't scream for more than three days. I've figured this out. So, (CHUCKLES) if you're gonna change the rules on the kids, like, you're gonna be in for a war. But it's a war worth fighting because you're talking about the mental health of your children. - Wow. - So, Paddy, you might not be willing to start the three day war tonight, but there are some really simple things you can do now, and Rob recommends a couple of great sites. One of them's called safesurfer.io. - Yeah, I've gotta say, in terms of filters, I've been a sort of a 'filter schmilter' sort of person. and like a lot of parents out there, there are no filters on any of the devices, on any of the children. And I'm sure a lot of parents would agree with that. I feel a bit bad. - I was exactly the same ` no filters on any devices. Well, that's changed now. - The only filter that I've got on my son's computer is just that weird cat face thing that you can put on, and I don't think it's keeping him safe. - My son's phone doesn't have any filters, but I do try really hard to have really open and honest conversations about tricky subjects like this one. - Yeah, that's really powerful, Courtney, and I give you the Mum of the Year award for that as well. - Whoo! - Right, Karen. In terms of Investigator of the Year, back to vaping. I'm proud of you for pulling up this bureaucratic bungle that means people aren't getting the help they deserve. - Thank you. - I need you to cut through the crap and sort it out. - Well, Paddy, look. They don't call me Karen 'Cut Through The Crap' O'Leary for nothing. All right. Thank you. (AUDIENCE MEMBER WHOOPS) - So, I went and talked to Chris and Chris, and I know they've been involved in a couple of debates the last week or so, but I can assure you that this conversation with them blows that out of the water. We know National want to cut our tax, but how are they gonna cut our vaping? I'm cutting in on this big bus event to find out. Christopher, how are you gonna cut the vaping bus? Bus Chris wasn't given me anything, so I had to find human Chris. - Do you see I got a brand new bus? - I did think that might be your bus. Have you ever had a hoon on a vape? - No. Never will, never have. - And one Chris wasn't enough ` I'm getting the combo. Have you ever vaped? - No, I haven't. - Would you consider taking up vaping if it meant you got more votes? - No. - But if you had to choose a flavour, just had to... There's, like, Arctic Mint.. Menthol Ice, Grape... Then you've got more, just, like, your tobacco flavour. Which flavour would you choose? - Well, I'm not gonna do it, because I just don't think it's good for us, the vaping. - But I just said you had to. - I know, I know you said that, but I'm just not gonna do it. - I don't think there is a sausage roll one, but... - Well, in the absence of a sausage roll one, I just don't think it'd be worth it. - So you'd like us to look to introduce a sausage` I don't think that is what you mean, is it? - No, it's not. - Did you know that if you're just a vaper ` you've never been a smoker ` Quitline can't actually help you stop to vape? - I wasn't aware of that, no. - What do you think of it? - It should be` should be able to do that, and, you know, we want to increase spending on health each and every year. - That does seem like an anomaly in the system, and it is something I think we need to fix, because we want people to be able to give up vaping as well. - Couldn't we just transfer the people that were helping the smokers to help the vape lords? - You know, we should be doing everything we can now. There are some new stronger measures coming in. Let's see how they go, and if they don't work, then we need to move it back to prescription only. Let's have that conversation too. - And absolutely, we want to stop young people taking up vaping. - You're right. And I think minimising the flavours, the access to those flavours, and maybe, potentially, your idea about a sausage roll flavour could actually be quite a good innovation, because if that was the only flavour available, I don't know if people would think that was that cool. - I think it was your idea of a sausage roll flavour, actually. - OK. Well, my last question that I have for you` (CHUCKLES) It's a great idea of mine, then` I know you want to remove the GST from fruit and vegetables. In fact, I feel like I was actually the first person that actually got that scoop. - Yes, you were, actually. - Would you consider removing the GST on potato so chips could be more affordable? - More affordable chips would be a very good thing. I'm never going to do these humorous interviews with you again. - It wasn't on purpose, but would you consider removing the GST from beer? I'm just asking for a friend. - Absolutely not. - Thanks, Chris. It's been lovely. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Wow. - So, basically, whichever one of those two twits ends up leading our country come the election, they have pledged to get Quitline to help and to provide more support. And like I said, if you do want to get the NRT, then you can get that from the GP or from the pharmacy. - Yeah. I mean, I'm super impressed because you have achieved bipartisan consensus on your investigation tonight. That's amazing. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) But you made an absolute rookie mistake. - What? - I'm sorry. Yeah, crazy rookie mistake. And I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to swear again, but you did not consult Winston, and none of this will happen without him. - Do you have his phone number? - Yeah, I do. You can call him afterwards. - I'll give him a call. But, hey, look, don't forget, if you've got an issue, I've got an issue. Get in touch ` issues@paddygower.co.nz. I'll come and help you out. - Coming up ` if you or your kids photos get shared online, there is a way to get them taken down. Juliet meets the sextortion expert who shows her how to do it. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Welcome back to Paddy Gower Has Issues. I am Paddy Gower. Now, Juliet, this whole sextortion investigation has been a real eye opener for me and I'm sure many other people. Are there any solutions or good news out there? - There is some good news because while technology is being used by these scammers to sextort people, technology has also advanced to help victims. And I met a really interesting woman who taught us that knowledge is power. I'm back down in Dunedin to talk to Leanne Ross. She works for Netsafe, and she's an expert in sextortion. And she paints a pretty grim picture about how fast this problem's escalating, but she's also got some really great messages of hope. - We've had victims as young as 10 and victims over the age of 65. It can also happen to people who have been in consensual relationships, and then those have broken down and turned nasty. There's lots of different ways that this can happen to people. - How big a problem is this? - Unfortunately, it's big, and it's getting bigger. This time 2020, we were seeing 20-something reports a month. Now we're seeing over 200 reports a month. The graph just goes like this. It's not going down. - Why do you think that is? Is it because it's working? - (SIGHS) Essentially, yes. These are professional scammers. They're often based overseas, and this tactic, the way they target people, is working. And I think the other reason it's rising is because a lot of young people are increasingly comfortable building and maintaining their relationships online. So it makes them quite vulnerable to people who are professional manipulators. - Yeah, cos maybe some older generations might think, well, they shouldn't be sharing intimate videos and photos, but is that just not the reality of the world we live in? - That's not the reality. It wasn't the reality when I met my husband a decade ago. It's not the reality now, and it's not going to go away. Kids have always experimented with each other ` kissing behind the bike sheds, maybe showing each other their bodies. I mean, this has been around for decades. And everyone thinks that the answer is to just to take the cyber part away, but it doesn't change human behaviour. - So, what can people do and what should people know? - These scammers ` it will be hard for you to spot them. You're very tech savvy, but you may not spot them. So you've got to just have your guard up a little bit more. If you haven't met them in person, double check things, take things slowly. - And she says parents need to be alert, but also understanding. - And these are hard conversations. This is an embarrassing topic. Parents don't want to think about their 15- or 16-year-olds sharing nudes. So let's just make sure that if they make some bad decisions or someone tricks them, which is what happens here, just be a safe place to land. - If the worst does happen and nudes are shared, Leanne says it's important you don't panic, don't send any more photos, block the person, and know that there are now websites that can help pull down your photos. And they'll be so many people that don't know this exists. - No. - It's a takedown tool. Two websites, one for under 18-year-olds and one for over, which automatically remove your intimate photos or videos from most, if not all, of the places where they would likely be circulating. - This is a really important wording. It says 'Select your photos and videos.' So, you're not uploading them. They're not leaving your device. You're just going to select them. And the whole hashing or coding is happening right here on the website. Automatically, it creates long code digital fingerprint letters and numbers, and that is what gets shared with the platforms, so that they can automatically chase that code. And any time they find it, they can try to remove it. - An algorithm that will forever hunt down and delete the pictures. Knowing what you know ` you've got a teenager. What are your tech rules? - (LAUGHS) My tech rules in the house with my almost 15-year-old are just no phones in the bedroom. It's the only boundary that I create at that age. And the reason for that is because even as an adult, none of us make good choices between midnight and 3am. So... if we can help them to avoid falling foul of that without the support ` often their family are asleep, and they're panicking alone ` that's a really good one to have. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Wow. - Yeah, so, no phones in the bedroom. It might seem like a hard-line approach, but Leanne's actually pretty liberal, and so that might be another battle for people to have with their teenagers tonight. And if you want to know about those great takedown tools that I didn't even know existed until this, go to our Facebook page. - Yeah, absolutely. Look at those takedown tools. Thank you so much, Juliet Speedy, for your fantastic investigation. Thank you to Karen 'Results' O'Leary, and, of course, to the news deskers Eli and Courtney. Amazing job tonight, everybody. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) Now, for me, it goes like this ` we need to treat sextortion like the crime that it is. We need to worry about it, talk about it, and treat it like we treat ram raids. It might not have the smashed shop fronts, but the damage is just as real, and there are truly, truly frightening consequences out there for people. Now, let's be clear ` the victims have got nothing to be ashamed of. We need to take advice from our first victim that we saw tonight, Sophie. Remember her message to other people? 'I'm not ashamed to be a victim of sending nudes. It's a mistake. It's not your fault.' That is a truly special message from Sophie. And we need to take the shame out of sextortion. That takes the power away from the bullies and the criminals and helps the victims to take the power back. I'm Patrick Gower. Those were my issues, and I'm gonna miss youse. Captions by Julie Taylor and Kate Harris. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023