CAPTIONS BY KRISTIN WILLIAMS AND LENA ERAKOVICH. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 TENA KOUTOU KATOA. NAU MAI HAERE MAI ` WELCOME TO Q+A. WELCOME TO Q+A, PRIME MINISTER-ELECT. CHUCKLES: HOW ARE YOU? CHUCKLES: YEAH, GOOD. I'M VERY GOOD. HOW ARE YOU? VERY GOOD. VERY GOOD. GOOD. GOOD. VERY GOOD, THANKS. WE ARE IN, UH, (LOWERS VOICE) COCKLE BAY PRIMARY SCHOOL, AND I'M GONNA GO QUIET, BECAUSE SOMETHING... AMAZING. ...VERY MAGIC IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN. STUDENTS: # ...A TE MANU E, # PIPIWHARAUROA... # I'M JOHN CAMPBELL, FILLING IN FOR JACK TAME, WHO IS HAVING A REALLY WELL-DESERVED BREAK. NOT HAVING A BREAK, AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS GUY ` THE PM ELECT, CHRISTOPHER LUXON, WHO IS BACK AT HIS OLD PRIMARY SCHOOL, COCKLE BAY PRIMARY, IN THE BOTANY ELECTORATE, WHICH HE WON SO RESOUNDINGLY. HOW RESOUNDINGLY? 343 VOTES CAST AT THE COCKLE BAY PLAYCENTRE; 240 OF THEM FOR THEM. SO, TODAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SWING TO NATIONAL, THE SWING AWAY FROM LABOUR ` BOTH TO THE LEFT AND TO HIM, ON THE RIGHT. WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T VOTE ` WHY DID WE LOSE THEM, AND HOW ON EARTH DO WE GET THEM BACK? BUT WE BEGIN HERE IN BOTANY. YEAH! HELLO. YEAH! BOTANY! YEAH, BOTANY! BOTANY FOR LIFE! BOTANY! BOTANY FOR LIFE! WITH THEIR MUMS AND DADS. BOTANY! HELLOOOO! NOW THAT THEIR MAN IS PM... HELLO! (GIGGLES) ...WHAT IS IT EXACTLY THEY WANT? (CLAMOURING) LAW AND ORDER. PRETTY MUCH. OTHER THAN THAT, UH... I DUNNO. HAVEN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT. LESS BREAK-INS. YEAH. MORE SECURITY FOR THE STAFF AND PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING BEHIND THE COUNTERS. HAVE YOU HAD BREAK-INS HERE? YEAH, THIS YEAR. THREE. THREE BREAK-INS? YEAH. RAM RAIDS OVERNIGHT. ACTUALLY, THERE IS ONE THING THAT I WOULD LIKE, AND IT WOULD PROBABLY BE TO DEFINITELY HAVE A LOOK AT THE MEDICAL, UM... HOSPITALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AT THE MOMENT. COS NORMALLY MY PHILOSOPHY IS ` AND IT MIGHT BE RIGHT OR WRONG ` IS THAT THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO PROMISE YOU EVERYTHING AND YOU DON'T SEEM TO GET ANYTHING. SO I'VE JUST NEVER VOTED. BUT I DID THIS TIME, COS I THINK THERE NEEDED TO BE A CHANGE. NOT EVERYONE IN COCKLE BAY IS OPTIMISTIC. I'M ACTUALLY REALLY SCARED. YEAH. I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BE GOOD. WHAT ARE YOU MOST SCARED ABOUT? UM, MAINLY FOR THE DISABILITY SECTOR. NO ONE'S ACTUALLY SPOKEN, REALLY, ABOUT IT OVER THE WHOLE ELECTION. UM, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN, AND THERE'S NOTHING FOR THEM TO GAIN, BUT EVERYTHING FOR THEM TO LOSE. I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GET OUR ECONOMY MOVING IN THE RIGHT WAY SO THAT WE'VE ACTUALLY GOT THE RESOURCES TO INVEST IN OUR PUBLIC SERVICES. AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE VOTED FOR ON FRIDAY ` THEY WANT US TO GOVERN FOR ALL NEW ZEALANDERS, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA DO, BECAUSE I CAME TO THIS JOB, I CAME TO POLITICS, DELIBERATELY TO SOLVE PROBLEMS AND TO REALISE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE'VE GOT. AND WE HAVE A GREAT COUNTRY. WE HAVE A FANTASTIC FUTURE, AMAZING PEOPLE, AMAZING TALENT IN THIS COUNTRY, AND I WANNA BE LIBERATING IT AND CATALYSING IT AND DOING MY JOB IN GOVERNMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE CAN DO THAT. BOTANY ISN'T JUST COCKLE BAY, OF COURSE; IT ALSO INCLUDES PARTS OF THE MUCH LOWER-INCOME AREA ` AND HISTORICALLY LABOUR-VOTING STRONGHOLD ` OTARA. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM THIS NEW GOVERNMENT? WELL, FOR THEM TO BE RESPECTFUL TO THE MAORIS AND THE ISLANDERS AND THAT. ALL THE` POLYNESIANS, THE POOR ONES. FOOD IS SO EXPENSIVE, UH, AND I NEED THOSE PRICES DOWN. FOR ALL OF US TO FEEL APPRECIATED AND LOVED AND... THEY WANT US TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY. WHEN YOU SAY 'ALL OF US', DO YOU THINK SOME COMMUNITIES ARE LESS APPRECIATED AND LESS LOVED THAN OTHERS? YEAH. I RECKON THE PACIFIC ISLAND COMMUNITY IS. UM, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE THE ONES THAT RUN ALL YOUR FACTORIES, BUILD ALL YOUR HOUSES... YOU KNOW, YOUSE BRING US OVER HERE FOR WORK, AND WE WORK HARD. I DON'T KNOW. I... I JUST DON'T TRUST 'LUXTON'. CHUCKLES: FULL STOP. THERE WAS A STRIKING CONTRAST BETWEEN COCKLE BAY AND OTARA, WHICH ARE ON OPPOSITE EDGES OF THE SAME ELECTORATE. FOR THE MOST PART, PEOPLE IN THE MORE AFFLUENT COCKLE BAY SAW THE INCOMING GOVERNMENT AS REFLECTING THEM, BUT PEOPLE IN OTARA FEAR THIS WON'T BE A GOVERNMENT FOR THEM. AND YET, NATIONAL HAS TURNED AUCKLAND BLUE. LOOK AT THIS. THE FIRST MAP IS 2017, BUSINESS ALMOST AS USUAL, WITH LABOUR HOLDING SOUTH AUCKLAND AND THE INNER WEST ` THAT'S TE ATATU TOP LEFT. NOTHING RED OVER THE BRIDGE. THEN, 2020, A PINCER MOVEMENT, OVER THE BRIDGE, FURTHER WEST, LABOUR RED ENGULFS AUCKLAND. WITH THE GREENS PICKING UP AUCKLAND CENTRAL. AND NOW ` IT'S INCREDIBLE. ACT PICKING UP TAMAKI TO DOUBLE THE YELLOW, THE GREENS HOLDING, BUT RED SIMPLY GONE FROM LARGE SWATHES OF THE CITY, AND LOOK AT THAT STRIP OF BLUE BETWEEN THE RED. THAT IS FASCINATING. IN THAT BLUE IS MT ROSKILL ` FORMED IN 1999, IT'S ONLY EVER VOTED LABOUR. BEFORE THAT, IT WAS THE ROSKILL ELECTORATE, AND BASICALLY VOTED LABOUR FOR GENERATIONS. IN 2020, MICHAEL WOOD'S MAJORITY WAS ALMOST 14,000 VOTES. ON SATURDAY NIGHT, WITH SPECIALS YET TO BE COUNTED, HE LOST IT TO NATIONAL. WHY? AND IS THERE A LARGER SIGNIFICANCE IN THE FACT THAT THE ELECTORATE WITH THE MOST NEW ZEALANDERS WHO ANSWER 'ASIAN' TO THE CENSUS QUESTION ABOUT ETHNICITY HAVE SWUNG SO DRAMATICALLY TO NATIONAL? I ASKED MT ROSKILL'S FIRST EVER NATIONAL MP, DR CARLOS CHEUNG, WHY HE THINKS HE WON. I THINK THE MAIN REASON IS PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR CHANGES, UM, BECAUSE PEOPLE IN MOUNT ROSKILL HAVE BEEN SUFFERING FROM COST OF LIVING, INCREASED CRIME, AND I THINK THEY WANT TO MAKE A CHANGE, AND THEY BELIEVE NATIONAL CAN ACTUALLY DELIVER THEIR PROMISE AND MAKE A CHANGE. HOW MANY DOORS DID YOU KNOCK ON? OH. IN THE PAST SIX MONTHS, I ALMOST` MORE THAN` AROUND 6000. YEAH. AND WHEN YOU GO 'KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK' AND THE DOOR OPENS, THERE WOULD BE A GREAT MANY PEOPLE WHO HAD NO IDEA WHO THE HELL YOU WERE, RIGHT? YES. YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN MEETING MANY OF THEM FOR THE FIRST TIME. THAT'S RIGHT. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY, 'OH, WHO YOU ARE? 'OH, YOU'RE ACTUALLY FROM NATIONAL.' SO I THINK THIS IS WHY IMPORTANT FOR ME TO DO DOOR-KNOCKING, BECAUSE I'M A NEW CANDIDATE, AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO ACTUALLY INTRODUCE MYSELF IN PERSON. SO, WHEN YOU SAY` WHEN THEY SAY, 'OH, YOU'RE FROM NATIONAL,' IN A LABOUR STRONGHOLD, WHAT WAS YOUR MESSAGE TO THEM? WELL, IT'S... IT'S TRY TO JUST INTRODUCE WHO AM I, WHAT'S MY BACKGROUND, UM, AND ALSO TELL THEM WHAT WE CAN DO FOR THEM. AND THEY... YOU KNOW, EITHER THEY WILL COME BACK TO SEE ME AND SAY, 'HEY, CARLOS, I HAVE THIS KIND OF CONCERN,' OR THEY WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE POLICY. UM, AS I SAY, PEOPLE LOOKING FOR CHANGE, SO THEY'RE MORE INTERESTED IN HOW OUR POLICY CAN HELP THEM. OK. I WANT TO COME BACK TO THAT THING THAT YOU SAID THAT THEY ASK YOU ` 'WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT'S YOUR BACKGROUND?' WHO ARE YOU, AND WHAT'S YOUR BACKGROUND? SO, I MEAN, ALWAYS I WOULD START WITH, YOU KNOW, 'I'M A NEW CANDIDATE FOR MOUNT ROSKILL,' AND, YOU KNOW, FOR ME, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A, YOU KNOW, IN-PERSON INTERACTION WITH PEOPLE. SO I WILL TELL THEM, 'I'VE BEEN LIVING IN` I'M A LOCAL; 'I'VE LIVED IN MOUNT ROSKILL FOR MORE THAN 15 YEARS, 'AND I DID A LOT OF COMMUNITY WORK IN THE PAST SEVEN YEARS AS WELL, 'HELPING THE PEOPLE IN MOUNT ROSKILL.' AND JUST TRY TO TELL THEM... WELL, YOU KNOW, TO LISTEN TO THEM ` WHAT CONCERNS THEY HAVE, OR WHAT HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING` LIKE, YOU KNOW, BOTHERING THEM IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, SIX YEARS, AND TELL THEM HOW OUR POLICY CAN ACTUALLY HELP THEM. CHILDHOOD IN HONG KONG, RIGHT? CAME TO NEW ZEALAND WHEN YOU WERE 16? YES. YEAH. WHY DID YOUR MUM AND DAD WANT TO COME TO NEW ZEALAND? WHAT WERE THEIR ASPIRATIONS? WHAT BROUGHT THEM HERE? I THINK IT'S... DURING THE OLD TIME, I THINK NEW ZEALAND IS A VERY` IS A BETTER PLACE ` IT'S THE BEST PLACE IN EARTH. AND... THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT COMPARED TO HONG KONG, AND THEY BELIEVE THAT COMING HERE, I WILL ABLE TO HAVE BETTER OPPORTUNITY, UM, AND I HAVE A HIGH CHANCE OF SUCCESS AS WELL. YEAH. SO IT WAS ASPIRATION FOR YOU, FOR THEIR SON? I THINK FOR THEM, IT'S` THEY DON'T REALISE... UM, TO BE HONEST, IT'S VERY HARD TO PREDICT THE FUTURE, SO FOR THEM, IT'S` THEY WANT TO PROVIDE THE BEST OPPORTUNITY FOR ME, AND THEN I WILL GO FROM THERE. AND YOU HAD A FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY, BECAUSE YOU WENT TO AUCKLAND GRAMMAR, RIGHT? YES, THAT'S RIGHT. YES. WHICH IS A GREAT SCHOOL. AND THEN YOU WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF AUCKLAND... THAT'S RIGHT. ...AND STUDIED SCIENCE. YOU'RE A PhD. YES. NO ONE WILL UNDERSTAND IT, CARLOS, BUT TELL US WHAT YOUR PhD IS IN. SO, MY PhD TOPIC FOCUS ON DIABETES ` UM, DIABETES-INDUCED CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE. AND WE TRY TO USE A DRUG CALLED TETA TO, UM, CHELATE THE COPPER IN THE BLOOD AND THEN TO IMPROVE THE CARDIO FUNCTION. RIGHT. YOU'VE LOST ME ALREADY, BUT IT'S VERY, VERY IMPRESSIVE. (LAUGHS) SO, GIVEN THIS EXTRAORDINARY PhD, WHICH WAS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN DIABETES, COPPER AND THE HEART, WHY ON EARTH, HOW ON EARTH, DID YOU MOVE INTO PROPERTY MANAGEMENT? WELL, IT'S` (SIGHS) I THINK THIS IS... A VERY INTERESTING TURNING POINT, I THINK. UM, NO ONE WOULD EXPECT YOU FROM A SCIENTIST TURN TO BECOME A BUSINESS OWNER. BUT SOMETIMES I THINK, YOU KNOW, GOD HAVE A MEANING TO` YOU KNOW, FOR ME, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, I MANAGED TO TALK TO A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY COMMUNITY AS WELL, MANAGED TO ENGAGE WITH DIFFERENT PEOPLE, AND I THINK THAT'S HELPED ME TO BECOME A POLITICIAN, BECAUSE NOW I UNDERSTAND THE NEEDS FROM DIFFERENT PEOPLE. BUT WHY THE SEGUE FROM SCIENCE TO PROPERTY? BECAUSE YOU HAVE... YOU'RE A DIRECTOR AND A SHAREHOLDER IN ENFIELD PROPERTY MANAGEMENT; YOU ARE SOLE DIRECTOR AND SHAREHOLDER IN LIFESTYLE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT. WHY? I GUESS THIS TIME, IT'S REALLY TO PUT` WHAT IS MY PRIORITIES? THAT I'M` I CAN BE MARRY, I GET MY FAMILY. SO I LIKE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT TO DO IN THE FUTURE AS WELL. AND OBVIOUSLY, I CAN GO OVERSEAS, JUST LIKE 90% OF MY COLLEAGUE ` WHICH, YOU KNOW, GRADUATED, MOVE ON TO DIFFERENT COUNTRY AND WORK, AND THEY'RE VERY SUCCESSFUL ` BUT ONE THING IS I REALLY LIKE NEW ZEALAND; I WANT TO STAY HERE AS WELL. AND... YOU KNOW, IT'S... BEING IN SCIENCE IS A VERY HARD ENVIRONMENT. AT TIMES, LIKE, IT'S VERY HARD TO GET FUNDING FROM GOVERNMENT. SO I LIKE TO THINK WHAT'S THE BEST FOR MY FAMILY, AND I WANT TO HAVE A SUSTAINABLE INCOME FOR` FOR MY FAMILY AS WELL. SO AFTER A LONG` LONG DECISION, A LONG DISCUSSION WITH MY WIFE, I THINK STARTING UP A PROPERTY MANAGEMENT COMPANY WILL BE ONE OF THE BEST WAY TO GO. AND HOW'S IT GOING? WELL, YOU CAN SEE ME NOW ` I THINK, UM, I DID WELL. (CHUCKLES) OK. WHEN YOU WON THE CANDIDACY FOR MOUNT ROSKILL, YOU SAID, 'I'M ASPIRATIONAL FOR THE PEOPLE OF MOUNT ROSKILL.' THAT'S RIGHT. AND THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE IN DESPERATE ECONOMIC STRAITS... MM. ...NOT VERY FAR FROM US HERE. AND YOU SAID THAT YOU WILL ADVOCATE FOR POLICIES THAT WILL GET THEM AHEAD. YOU TALKED ABOUT FINDING PEOPLE ALMOST` PEOPLE HAVING TO FIND ALMOST $5000 MORE A YEAR TO COVER THE COST OF RENT IN AUCKLAND. YES. SO` WHICH IS A HELL OF A LOT OF MONEY WHEN YOU'RE ON A LOW INCOME. THAT WAS THE POINT YOU WERE MAKING. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE? HOW WILL NATIONAL HELP THOSE PEOPLE? I THINK THIS IS WHY WE` IMPORTANT ONE OF THE POLICIES ` WE TRY TO GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK. AND I FIND OUT THIS IS ONE OF THE, UM` I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE WAY TO BREAK THE CIRCLE` THE CYCLE. FOR ME, I'VE BEEN HELPING` YOU KNOW, WORKING IN THE COMMUNITY FOR THE PAST SEVEN YEARS; I CAN SEE PEOPLE STILL STRUGGLE ` YOU KNOW, AFTER SEVEN YEARS, THEIR LIFE'S NOT GETTING IMPROVED, AND THEY COME HERE EVERY WEEK TO TRY TO GET FOOD BOXES, AND THEY STILL STRUGGLE TO PUT FOOD ON TABLE. SO OBVIOUSLY, THE EXISTING APPROACH IS NOT WORKING FOR THEM. AND, UM, I CAN SEE SO MANY EXAMPLE IN HERE ` PEOPLE ACTUALLY WORK HARD TO SUCCESS AND THEY CAN MOVE, YOU KNOW, TO A BETTER LIFE AS WELL. SO OUR POLICY ACTUALLY CAN HELP THEM` PROVIDE THEM MORE OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCESS IN` OR INSPIRE THEM TO SUCCESS AS WELL. MM. $10 A WEEK TAX CUTS IF YOU'RE ON THE MINIMUM WAGE. YES. CARLOS, YOU CAN'T LOOK ME IN THE EYES AND TELL ME THAT THAT'S GOING TO... YEAH. ...INSPIRE PEOPLE TO SUCCESS, IS IT? I MEAN, THAT'S INSULTINGLY LITTLE. WELL, WE CAN'T JUST LOOK AT A SINGLE POLICY AND JUDGE THAT. WE NEED THE OVERALL PACKAGE. LIKE, FOR US` I MEAN, WE ARE NOT TRY TO SAY, 'OH, YOU GET EXTRA $10,' OR SOMETHING, BUT WE WANT TO PROVE` WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN OUR ECONOMY SO WE CAN HAVE MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO SUCCESS. LIKE, THEY CAN START THEIR OWN... CARLOS, I JUST` ...SMALL BUSINESS AND STUFF. MASTERFUL POLITICAL ANSWER FOR A MAN DOING HIS FIRST INTERVIEW AS A NEW MP. LAUGHS: I'M SERI` CONGRATULATIONS. I WANT TO COME BACK TO NATIONAL'S TAX CUTS AND THE INTEREST DEDUCTIBILITY FOR RENTAL PROPERTIES BEING FULLY RESTORED BY 2026. SO, LABOUR ESTIMATES ` AND THERE'S BEEN SOME ECONOMIC SUPPORT FOR THIS, SUPPORT FROM ECONOMISTS ` THAT WOULD BE WORTH ABOUT $6000 A YEAR TO LANDLORDS. SHOULD`? GIVEN YOUR CONCERN ABOUT THE HIGH COST OF RENT... MM. ...SHOULD LANDLORDS PASS THAT ON TO THEIR TENANTS? WELL, I MEAN, I WORK IN THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT BUSINESS, SO... ONE THING WE KNOW THAT` A LOT OF OWNER` UH, OF LANDLORD ACTUALLY STRUGGLE AS WELL WITH A LOT OF EXTRA COSTS BEING, YOU KNOW, APPLIED TO THEM IN THE PAST SIX YEARS, AND, YOU KNOW, FOR THEM, THEY WILL PASS SOME OF THE COST TO THE TENANT AS WELL. WITH OUR NEW POLICY, WE HOPEFULLY REDUCE THE COST FOR THE LANDLORD AS WELL. AND THEN` SO IF YOU REDUCE THE COST, WOULD THEY PASS IT ON TO THEIR TENANTS? SO` AT LEAST THEY HAVE LESS PRESSURE TO INCREASE RENT EVERY YEAR. I THINK THIS IS ONE THING WE TRY TO ACHIEVE AS WELL. BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO WORK OUT WHO THIS POLICY IS FOR. HM. AND YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THE PROHIBITIVE COSTS OF RENTS IN THE CITY... MM. ...AND THERE WILL BE LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN BECAUSE THEY'RE PAYING THEM. WHO IS THIS POLICY FOR? IS IT FOR THE LANDLORDS OR IS IT FOR THE TENANTS? I THINK IT'S FOR EVERYONE. I THINK IT'S FOR BOTH. BUT IT'S ONLY FOR BOTH IF THE LANDLORDS PASS THE REDUCED COSTS ON, RIGHT? YES. THAT'S RIGHT. BUT, UM... ONE THING` I MEAN, I WORK IN THIS INDUSTRY ` WHEN I FIRST START THE BUSINESS, THE COST OF, YOU KNOW, RUNNING AN INVESTMENT BUSINESS IS MUCH LESS THAN NOW; THE PRESSURE FOR OUR LANDLORD TO INCREASE RENT IS` WAS MUCH LESS. THEY PROBABLY WOULD SAY THAT, 'HEY, CARLOS, 'I'M NOT GOING TO INCREASE RENT FOR ANOTHER YEAR OR TWO,' OR` SOME OF THE PROPERTY HAVEN'T BEEN INCREASED RENT FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS, BUT ONLY RECENTLY, WHEN A LOT OF COSTS HAVE BEEN APPLIED TO THEM, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT THEY NEED TO PASS ON THAT EXTRA, YOU KNOW, COST TO THE TENANT. SO WITH` BY CUTTING THE COST, I THINK THEY WILL CERTAINLY RELEASE THE PRESSURE OF INCREASING RENT AS WELL. DO YOU OWN RENTAL PROPERTIES? I DO. AND WILL YOU PASS ON THE MONEY YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AS A RESULT OF NATIONAL'S TAX CUTS POLICY? WILL YOU PASS` WILL YOU REDUCE RENTS? WELL, ONE THING YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT` MY... OR MOST OF MY` YOU KNOW, MY RENT IS PRETTY MUCH, LIKE, LOWER THAN THE MARKET RANGE. SO... I DON'T THINK I ACTUALLY INCREASE MUCH, YOU KNOW, RENT IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS. YEAH. BECAUSE SOMETHING I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT IS... NOT ALL THE LANDLORD WILL PASS ON THE COST TO THE TENANT AS WELL. A LOT OF` THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD TENANT` UH, GOOD LANDLORD THERE, ACTUALLY WILL LOOK AFTER THE GOOD TENANT, AND THEY WILL SAY, 'OH, YEAH, I UNDERSTAND 'THAT THERE'S A LOT OF`' YOU KNOW, THE PRICE` YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PRESSURE FOR THE TENANT. AND THEY WILL SAY, 'CARLOS, HOW ABOUT WE JUST FREEZE IT 'FOR, YOU KNOW, ONE TO TWO YEARS 'AND MAKE SURE THEY ALL GO THROUGH THIS TOUGH TIME AS WELL?' TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOUR AMBITION IS. IF I MEET YOU HERE IN THREE YEARS' TIME... YES. ...AND YOU HAVE BEEN RE-ELECTED AS THE MP FOR MOUNT ROSKILL ` YES. AND IT IS A REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT, CARLOS, TO WIN THIS SEAT FROM LABOUR ` MM. WHAT DO YOU HOPE WILL BE DIFFERENT? SO, THE FIRST THING I ALWAYS TELL MY CONSTITUENT IS I WANT TO MAKE THIS PLACE MORE SAFE. SO PEOPLE... YOU KNOW, IF THEY HAVE A CHILD, THEY WILL FEEL THAT THEY ARE SAFE TO ACTUALLY WALK FROM A BUS STOP TO BACK HOME. I THINK THIS IS THE PRIORITY ` THE SAFETY IS THE PRIORITY IN MOUNT ROSKILL. MM. AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE A SAFE SPACE TO LIVE IN. WHAT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HEAP THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT SO MOVINGLY WHEN YOU WON THE CANDIDACY? YES. THE PEOPLE WHO... YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE HIGH COST OF THEIR RENT ` WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO DO FOR THEM? AND I REMEMBER JOHN KEY... YEAH. ...FORMER NATIONAL PARTY PRIME MINISTER, VISITING A STREET NOT FAR FROM US HERE, MCGEHAN CLOSE, WHICH BECAME KIND OF EMBLEMATIC OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE EXISTING IN THE MARGINS ` OR NOT EXISTING IN THE MARGINS. YEAH. WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO DO FOR THOSE PEOPLE? FOR US, WE WANT TO STRENGTHEN OUR ECONOMY, SO PROVIDE MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO SUCCESS. SO MAYBE A, YOU KNOW, HIGHER-PAID JOB AS WELL, OR JUST SOME MORE` MORE JOB OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM SO THEY CAN ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, GET MORE MONEY, GET MORE INCOME, GET A BETTER LIFE FOR THEIR FAMILY. MM. WE'RE GETTING TO THE END OF THIS INTERVIEW, AND IT'S SO LOVELY TO SPEND TIME WITH YOU. UH, ROUGHLY 48% ` I THINK JUST UNDER HALF... YES. ...THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THIS ELECTORATE IDENTIFIED THEMSELVES AS OF ASIAN ETHNICITY... THAT'S RIGHT. ...IN THE CENSUS. ABOUT 52% ` JUST OVER HALF ` WERE BORN OVERSEAS. HOW DO YOU FEEL THAT COMMUNITY...? AND, BOY, THAT'S A BIG AND BROAD COMMUNITY` YES. THAT'S RIGHT. I MEAN, 'ASIAN' IS A HUGE TERM. YES. BUT HOW DO YOU FEEL THEY VIEW POLITICS? IS THIS A COMMUNITY YOU BELIEVE IS INCREASINGLY LIKELY TO VOTE NATIONAL? UM, I THINK... WELL... (SIGHS) I'VE BEEN TALKING TO A LOT OF THEM. AND, YOU KNOW, AS ONE OF` I'M AN IMMIGRANT AS WELL; I THINK I HAVE A PART` I HAVE EXPERIENCE ` I KNOW WHAT THEY'VE BEEN STRUGGLE, WHAT CHALLENGING THEY'VE BEEN FACING. AND OBVIOUSLY, MOST OF US JUST COME HERE FOR BETTER LIVING OR BETTER OPPORTUNITY FOR THEIR FAMILY. SO, UM, I THINK THAT'S VERY MUCH A NATIONAL VALUE ` WE PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY PEOPLE TO SUCCESS. SO... I HOPE THAT THEY WILL KEEP VOTING FOR NATIONAL FOR THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS. YEAH. BECAUSE I THINK THIS IMPORTANT VALUE IS WE ALL BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WORK HARD SHOULD GET REWARD. THAT'S MT ROSKILL MP-ELECT CARLOS CHEUNG. THAT'S MT ROSKILL MP-ELECT CARLOS CHEUNG. FIRST EVER NATIONAL MP IN THAT ELECTORATE. LATER ON Q+A ` YOUNG PEOPLE, WHY DID SO MANY OF THEM NOT VOTE, AND WHAT DO WE DO TO RE-ENGAGE THEM? BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO RE-ENGAGE. ALSO, $600 MILLION OFF THE PUBLIC SERVICE BUDGET. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR OUR PUBLIC SERVICE AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN IT? AND THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN IT? I SUSPECT THAT MAY BE MANY OF OUR VIEWERS. BUT COMING UP ` PROPERTY INVESTORS ARE PRIMED AFTER THE ELECTION. MORE AFTER THE BREAK. WELCOME BACK TO Q+A. ONE OF THE AREAS NATIONAL IS PROMISING COMING ON THE PROGRAM, YOUNG VOTERS, WHERE DID THEY DISAPPEAR TO AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE CUTS. BUT FIRST, ONE OF THE AREAS NATIONAL IS PROMISING THEIR BIGGEST SET OF CHANGES IS IN THE PROPERTY MARKET. SO WHENA OWEN LOOKED INTO HOW THE INDUSTRY IS RESPONDING TO THEIR ELECTION WIN. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE; UPBEAT MUSIC PLAYS) WITH PRE-ELECTION POLLS SIGNALLING A SHIFT TO THE RIGHT, PLAYERS IN THE PROPERTY MARKET WERE ALREADY AT THE STARTING LINE. THE ELECTION NIGHT RESULT, THEY SAY, HAS BROUGHT CLARITY. IT WAS AN 'AHA' MOMENT FOR PEOPLE WHO REALISED THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY GOING TO HAPPEN. THE PHONES HAVE DEFINITELY STARTED RINGING FROM SOME GROUPS OF BUYERS OUT THERE ` IN PARTICULAR, INVESTORS ` SO THEY'RE STARTING TO LOOK TO RE-ENTER THE MARKET BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT. (INTENSE DRUM & BASS MUSIC) PROPERTY INVESTOR AND TUTOR STEVE GOODY ADVERTISED HIS UPCOMING INVESTMENT SEMINAR BEFORE THE ELECTION WITH LITTLE RESPONSE. POST-ELECTION, SUDDENLY, ALL OF OUR WEBINARS ARE FULL AND INTEREST IS BACK, AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF TICKET SALES FOR THAT JUST IN THE LAST FEW DAYS. I THINK EVERYBODY'S COME BACK TO THE FACT THAT... THE SUN'S GONNA COME OUT, THERE'S GONNA BE ANOTHER DAY, AND THAT WE'RE SITUATION NORMAL AGAIN. (CHEERING, WHISTLING) AND ON TOP OF THAT, THERE ARE EXTRA INCENTIVES FOR INVESTORS ` NATIONAL'S PROPOSED FISCAL SHIFTS AND POLICY REPEALS AIMED AT PROVIDING MORE HOUSING STOCK FOR BUYERS AND RENTERS. WHAT I'LL BE SAYING TO YOU IS THAT WE ARE GONNA PUT DOWNWARD PRESSURE ON RENTS BY ACTUALLY UNWINDING THE BRIGHT-LINE TEST FROM 10 TO TWO YEARS... RIGHT. ...AND UNWINDING INTEREST DEDUCTIBILITY AND CHANGING SOME OF THE TENANCY LAW. TAX NON-DEDUCTIBILITY ` IT'S BASICALLY MADE EVERY RENTAL PROPERTY IN NEW ZEALAND WORTH A LITTLE BIT LESS, WHICH MEANS THAT NOW, WITH IT BEING TAKEN OUT AGAIN OVER A PERIOD OF TIME BY THIS PROPOSED NATIONAL/ACT COALITION, THAT EVERY RENTAL PROPERTY IN NEW ZEALAND IS GONNA GO UP IN VALUE A LITTLE BIT MORE. IT ALSO MEANS THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THE 90 DAYS TO EVICT A BAD TENANT ANY MORE; WE CAN DO THE NO-CAUSE EVICTIONS. NOW, I'M ON THE FENCE WHETHER THAT'S A GREAT IDEA OR NOT. I KNOW` YEAH, SUCH A GOOD IDEA FOR TENANTS, IS IT? WELL, NO. THE ELECTION RESULT REALLY IS A BAD FORECAST FOR RENTERS. OVER IN WELLINGTON'S ARO VALLEY, RENTERS UNITED PRESIDENT GEORDIE RODGERS IS NOT FEELING THE POST-ELECTION GLOW. IF I WAS A LANDLORD, I'D BE RUBBING MY HANDS ` IT'S PLENTY OF MONEY GOING INTO MY BACK POCKET. I CAN GUARANTEE THAT RENTERS WON'T SEE A SINGLE CENT OF THAT. UH, AND TREASURY AGREES WITH THAT ANALYSIS TOO. AT THE OTHER END OF THE MARKET, FOREIGN EYES ARE ON A PIECE OF PARADISE ` NATIONAL ALSO PROMISES TO PARTIALLY REPEAL THE BAN ON FOREIGN BUYERS BY ALLOWING THEM TO PURCHASE PROPERTIES VALUED ABOVE $2m IF THEY PAID A 15% BUYER'S TAX. I JUST THINK THAT $2 MILLION CAP MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT LOW. IF IT WAS AT $5 MILLION, WOULD A LOT OF INTERNATIONAL BUYERS... LOOKING AT NEW ZEALAND AS AN IMMIGRATION BRIDGE TO BUYING A PROPERTY HERE AND MOVING HERE, WOULD THEY SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN $2m AND $5m? WOULD THE $2 MILLION THRESHOLD ALSO HAVE A BIT OF A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON PEOPLE WANTING TO GET INTO THE MARKET HERE? IT COULD POSSIBLY, YES. THE 15% TAX HELPS, BUT... A COUPLE TRYING TO PURCHASE A $1.7m PROPERTY THAT ARE BEATEN BECAUSE THAT $1.7m PROPERTY BECOMES WORTH $2m SO THAT IT CAN COMPETE INTERNATIONALLY ` THEY'RE GONNA FEEL A LITTLE BIT BEAT UP. IN THIS WEEK AFTER THE ELECTION, POTENTIAL BUYERS FROM OVERSEAS WERE ALREADY HITTING LOCAL PROPERTY PAGES. IT'S BEEN QUITE A, YOU KNOW, UPTAKE IN, UH... IN TRAFFIC THROUGH THE WEBSITE, PARTICULARLY FROM THE USA AND AUSTRALIA, OVER THE LAST WEEK SINCE THE ELECTION. MARK HARRIS IS MANAGING DIRECTOR OF NEW ZEALAND'S SOTHEBY'S INTERNATIONAL. WE'RE NOT MAKING TOO MUCH` YOU KNOW, TOO MANY PROMISES AT THE MOMENT, OBVIOUSLY ` WINSTON'S STILL INVOLVED BEHIND THE SCENES. (BOOM!) HE SAYS IN TIMES OF UPHEAVAL ELSEWHERE, NEW ZEALAND IS OFTEN SEEN AS A SAFE HAVEN. HATE TO SAY IT ` YOU KNOW, IT` SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, OTHER AREAS OF THE WORLD GOING THROUGH SUFFERING AND PAIN HAS SEEN AN INQUIRY PICK-UP IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD. AND THAT'S SORT OF UNDERSTANDABLE, ISN'T IT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT A PLACE LIKE NEW ZEALAND AND CONSIDER IT A SAFE HAVEN? BE INTERESTING OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, WITH EVERYTHING GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE EAST, IF WE NOTICE THERE'S A PICK-UP FROM THAT PART OF THE WORLD. BUT BACK IN WELLINGTON, ARE PEOPLE RELUCTANT TO BUY AND SELL RIGHT NOW? THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVANTS' TOWN, AND NATIONAL AND ACT HAVE PROMISED TO SLASH JOBS. YES, THERE'LL CERTAINLY BE PEOPLE OUT THERE A BIT WORRIED ABOUT, 'WHAT'S NEXT FOR ME?' PARTICULARLY WITH THE LANGUAGE COMING FROM THE NEW GOVERNMENT. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SEE IS THAT WHEN A NEW GOVERNMENT COMES IN ` ANY CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT ` THEY WILL HAVE NEW PROJECTS; THEY WILL BE DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WANTING TO IMPLEMENT NEW THINGS, AND A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE WILL GET SHIFTED AROUND. WHILE THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE SEEN LITTLE ACTIVITY FROM INVESTORS, IT'S BEEN GOOD FOR FIRST-HOME BUYERS. WHAT'S NEXT? I DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL. MY BEST GUESS, UH, WOULD BE THAT WE'RE GONNA SEE A LOT MORE VOLUME COME BACK; A LOT MORE SALES TRANSACTIONS ARE GONNA HAPPEN, BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN UNNATURALLY LOW. IT'S BEEN A TOUGH COUPLE OF YEARS. SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS GREAT TO HAVE SOME ENTHUSIASM BACK, AND... YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO SEE PRICES` MULTI-YEAR CAPITAL GAINS ` IT'S BAD FOR SOCIETY. WHAT WE WANT IS VOLUMES TO COME BACK SO BUYERS, SELLERS AND AGENTS CAN TRANSACT AGAIN. AND THEY'RE NOT WASTING ANY TIME ` NEXT WEEKEND, INVESTORS GATHER FOR THEIR INDUSTRY CONFERENCE IN QUEENSTOWN. THAT'S WHENA OWEN THERE. IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT THE Q+A TEAM, PLEASE KORERO MAI. THESE ARE OUR MAIN PLATFORMS. YOU CAN EMAIL US, THE PLATFORM FORMERLY KNOWN AS TWITTER, THE PLATFORM FORMERLY KNOWN AS TWITTER, NOW CALLED WHATEVER IT IS CALLED. OR ON FACEBOOK. COMING UP IN THE SHOW ` WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 19% OF ALL JOBS, SO FOR EVERYONE WATCHING, THERE'S A ONE IN FIVE CHANCE WE'RE TALKING YOUR JOB. THERE'S A ONE IN FIVE CHANCE WE'RE TALKING YOUR JOB IF YOU WORK IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING TO HAPPEN BUT FIRST, WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING TO THESE GUYS, AND I AM SO DELIGHTED THEY ARE HERE. WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT YOUTH VOTER PARTICIPATION WHICH WAS DISMALLY LOW IN SOME PLACES - HOW DO WE INCREASE IT AND HOW DO WE MAKE YOUNG PEOPLE ENGAGE. UNDER THIS GOVERNMENT, OUTCOMES FOR YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE CONTINUED TO GET WORSE. THE KEY TO SOLVING MANY OF THE ISSUES THAT YOUNG PEOPLE ARE FACING THIS ELECTION IS TO GET ON TOP OF THE COST-OF-LIVING CRISIS, AND WE CAN DO THAT BY ACTUALLY TACKLING INFLATION AND TACKLING A LOT OF THE GOVERNMENT'S WASTEFUL SPENDING. OVER THE COURSE OF THIS YEAR, DUE TO COVID-19, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF STUDENTS, INCLUDING MY OWN FRIENDS, SACRIFICING THEIR YOUTH TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES BY DROPPING OUT TO WORK. SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO ENSURE THAT OUR STUDENTS' FUTURES ARE TAKEN CARE OF IN THE ONCOMING YEARS SO NONE OF OUR STUDENTS ARE LEFT BEHIND? I DECIDED, 'ACTUALLY, I'LL MAKE THIS DECISION NOW' ` TO... TO STAND AND TO HELP CONTRIBUTE AND TO MAKE ROTORUA BE THAT PLACE WHERE` YOUNG PEOPLE WANT TO STAY HERE, YOUNG PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE BACK HERE. WE DON'T YET KNOW FINAL NUMBERS, BUT WE DO KNOW ORDINARY VOTER TURNOUT WAS LOWER THIS ELECTION THAN LAST, AND EVEN SLIGHTLY LOWER THAN 2017. AND THAT WILL BE MORE PRONOUNCED WITH YOUNGER VOTERS. AND EVEN MORE PRONOUNCED WITH YOUNGER, LOW-INCOME VOTERS. DEMOCRACY REQUIRES PARTICIPATION. WE SEE IN HAURAKI-WAIKATO AND WELLINGTON CENTRAL WHAT YOUNG CANDIDATES WITH HIGHLY MOTIVATED CAMPAIGN TEAMS CAN ACHIEVE. BUT WHEN YOUNG PEOPLE DON'T VOTE, PARLIAMENT IS SHAPED BY OLDER PEOPLE, AND THERE ARE GENERATIONAL DIFFERENCES IN RESPONSES TO CLIMATE CHANGE, INEQUALITY, AND THE TREATY. THIS MORNING, THREE YOUNG PEOPLE FOR WHOM POLITICS AND PARTICIPATION, TRULY MATTERS ` AIGAGALEFILI FEPULEA'I TAPUA'I, WHO IN 2020 SO POWERFULLY RAISED THE PLIGHT OF THOSE FORCED TO LEAVE SCHOOL DURING THE PANDEMIC TO GET JOBS TO SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES. FILI IS AN ACCLAIMED POET, A CLIMATE CHANGE AND INDIGENOUS ACTIVIST, AND SHE NOW WORKS WITH GREENPEACE, WHO ARE VERY PROUD TO HAVE HER, EVEN THOUGH SHE'S NOT SPEAKING FOR THEM TODAY. ALSO HERE, FISHER WANG, WHO WAS A TEENAGER WHEN ELECTED TO THE ROTORUA LAKES COUNCIL, AND WAS RETURNED TO COUNCIL FOR A SECOND TERM IN LAST YEAR'S LOCAL GOVERNMENT ELECTIONS ` THE HIGHEST-POLLING COUNCILLOR. GO YOU. AND FELIX POOLE, AT 25, OUR OLDEST PANELLIST, A LAW CLERK, THE VENERABLE OLD CHAP, NUMBER 25 ON THE ACT LIST, AND ACT'S CANDIDATE IN AUCLAND CENTRAL. THANK YOU, ALL THREE OF YOU FOR BEING HERE. WE ARE DELIGHTED TO HAVE YOU WITH US. WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS? I THINK THERE IS STILL A BIT OF UNCERTAINTY. WE SAW THAT THE COUNTRY WANT TO CHANGE, BUT JUST HOW FAR THE CHANGE GOES, WE ARE STILL YET TO SEE WITH THE SPECIAL VOTES TO COME IN. WHETHER OR NOT IT IS GOING TO BE A TWO PARTY OR THREE PARTY COALITION GOVERNMENT. DO YOU FEEL GENERALLY HOPEFUL OR DESPONDENT OR SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE? LIKE TO SEE MYSELF AS AN OPTIMIST. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT COULD BE GOOD OUT OF THIS. PARTICULARLY IN THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AREA. THE SUPPORT WILL CONTINUE AND BUILD ON THAT MOVEMENT THAT HAS BEEN CREATED WITH A LOT OF THE REFORMS. AND A LOT OF THE WORK THAT HAS GONE INTO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, AS WE HAVE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY. FILI, CAN I ASK YOU HOW YOU ARE FEELING AFTER THE ELECTION? NO MATTER WHO IS IN POWER, PEOPLE POWER CONTINUES. THE GRASSROOTS WORK AND OUR COMMUNITY LEADERS WHO EXIST OUTSIDE OF PARLIAMENT, THEY WILL CONTINUE TO DO THE WORK. IT MAKES ME HOPEFUL. THE ELECTION, DOES THAT MAKE ME HOPEFUL? IT MAKES ME ANGRY AND PASSIONATE AND MOTIVATED TO WORK FOR OUR COMMUNITIES BECAUSE THEY NEED THAT. I DON'T THINK THAT THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT LOWER INCOME OR PACIFIC PEOPLE WHEN THEY WERE CAMPAIGNING. I BELIEVE OUR PEOPLE ARE WORTH THE HOPE. FELIX, CAN I BRING YOU IN HERE? YOU ARE PART OF A PARTY THAT DID WELL. HOW ARE YOU FEELING? CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC. IM VERY PLEASED BY THE RESULT, BUT I LOOK AT NATIONAL IN 2000 AND LABOUR IN OTHER PERIODS, AND I SEE GOVERNMENTS THAT HAVEN'T SERVED YOUNG PEOPLE. IF WE ARE GOING TO GET ANOTHER KEY GOVERNMENT OR LABOUR GOVERNMENT, I AM WORRIED. THE THING ABOUT THEIR KEY GOVERNMENT IS THAT HEAD THIS EXTRAORDINARY POPULARITY AND MANDATE AND DID NOTHING WITH IT. PEOPLE HAVE MADE THE SAME COMMENTS ABOUT JACINDA ARDERN. YOUNG PARTICIPATION. FILI, YOU VOTE IN MANGERE. FISHER, ROTORUA. FELIX, YOU STOOD IN AUCKLAND CENTRAL. WHAT DO THE STATS TELL US? WHAT DOES IT TELL US THAT YOUNG PEOPLE AND AFFLUENT ELECTRICS ARE MORE LIKELY TO VOTE? I BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHEN THEY DON'T SEE THEMSELVES REFLECTED IN ELECTIONS, THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO VOTE. OUR YOUNG PEOPLE FROM LOWER SOCIO-ECONOMIC COMMUNITIES, THEY DON'T WANT TO VOTE IF THEY DON'T SEE THEMSELVES REFLECTED IN WHOEVER IS TRYING TO BUY OR GET THEIR VOTE. WE HAVE SOME OF THE HIGHEST RATES OF CHILD POVERTY, CHILD ABUSE, A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE CLUTCH OUR PEARLS AND WHITE OUR TEARS AT, BUT ALL OF THE SYMPATHY GOES OUT OF THE WINDOW WHEN IT COMES TO ELECTIONS. I THINK WE FORGET THAT OUR CHILDREN CAN TELL WHO CARES AND WHO DOESN'T CARE. AND WHEN THEY SEE A SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T CARE NO MATTER WHICH WAY GOES, THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO VOTE. SO I DON'T BLAME THEM FOR NOT COMING OUT AND VOTING BECAUSE SADLY THAT IS HOW LIFE IS. I WANT TO PICK UP ON THAT. FELIX, WHEN YOU TURN ON THE TELLY AND WATCHED THE LEADERS DEBATES AND IT WAS CHRIS V CHRIS, DID YOU SEE YOURSELF THERE? I'M NOT GOING TO ASK FILI BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE INSULTING AND I THINK YOUR ANSWER WOULD EMPHATICALLY BE NO. NO. BE I WAS IMMENSELY DISAPPOINTED BY BOTH LEADERS DEBATES. THE FIRST WAS, TO BE HONEST, LITTLE BIT BORING, THE SECOND WAS A FIGHT. WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR WAS REAL CHANGE AND A FOCUS ON YOUNG PEOPLE AND A DIFFERENT WAY OF THINKING. WHAT I SAW WAS TWO PARTIES ARGUING OVER THE MOST MINUTE DETAILS. THE REASON I APPROACH THE ACT PARTY IS BECAUSE IT HAS A DIFFERENT APPROACH TO GOVERNMENT. DOESN'T WORK FOR THE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT FILI IS TALKING ABOUT? THE ONES WHO QUIT SCHOOL WHO HAD TO WORK DURING THE PANDEMIC? ABSOLUTELY. AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF YOU WANT TO SOLVE THE CORE ISSUES, WE NEED A PRODUCTIVE ECONOMY WHERE PEOPLE HAVE HIGH WAGES. THE WAY THAT YOU DO THAT IS THAT YOU MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO COOPERATE. WHEN YOU HAVE GOVERNMENT GET IN THE WAY AND MAKE IT DIFFICULT, YOU GET POORER OUTCOMES FOR THOSE PEOPLE. HOUSING IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE WHERE GOVERNMENT OVERREGULATION HIS ENDED UP WITH AN INCREASE IN HOUSE PRICES AND PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD THINGS. THAT SITUATION DOESN'T WORK FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WHOEVER ENTERS. YOU IN 19 WHEN YOU BECAME A COUNCILLOR. I THINK YOU FOUND OUT AFTER A SHIFT AT MCDONALD'S. NOW YOU ARE 22 OR 23? ELDERLY (!) YOUNG PEOPLE BRING MORE ENGAGEMENT TO POLITICS. AN AUTHENTIC ENGAGEMENT. YOUNG PEOPLE BRING THIS ENERGY TOWARDS POLITICS AND I THINK CREATE HOPEFUL FUTURE GENERATIONS FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY. I VISITED YOU IN ROTORUA. I FELT HOPEFUL AFTER THAT VISIT. I DON'T OFTEN SAY THAT AFTER VISITING A POLITICIAN. HOW DO WE GET THAT INTO THE UPPER LEVELS? WHEN I SEE CHRIS V CHRIS, IM FEELING A WHOLE LOT OF WORDS, AND YOU HAVE TO GO QUITE A WAY DOWN THE LIST BEFORE YOU GET TO HOPE. WHAT FILI MENTIONED BEFORE, THE ISSUES FACED ARE FACED IN ROTORUA AS WELL. ROTORUA IS KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN A PROVINCIAL DISTRICT AND CITY. WE HAVE QUITE A FEW BARRIERS LIKE THAT THAT WE HAVE TO GO OVER. BUT FOR ROTORUA, AND FROM MY CAMPAIGN, I GUESS, IT WAS A LOT ABOUT YOU MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH ME, BUT YOU CAN TRUST THAT I WILL LISTEN TO ALL VOICES. I WILL HEAR EVERYONE AND MAKE A DECISION BASED ON THE BEST INTEREST FOR ROTORUA AND DO THAT WITH INTEGRITY. AND I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN PROBABLY A BIT LACKING IN SOME OF OUR LEADERS AND SOMETHING THAT WILL HOPEFULLY HELP BUILD THAT TRUST. LISTENING INVOICES AND HAVING A VOICE. ' OUR DAUGHTERS BECOME MOTHERS TO THEIR SIBLING SO YOUNG BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS ARE WORKING SHIFTS AT NIGHT.' NATIONAL NOW HAVE ONE PASIFIKA MP AND SHE MIGHT NOT EVEN HOLD THAT SEAT. THE I THINK THE VOICES SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. THE PEOPLE IN POWER NEED TO LISTEN TO THE VOICES. OTHER LISTENING? NO. I DON'T THINK FROM THE SELECTION THAT THEY ARE. PEOPLE HAVE CHOSEN TO CHOOSE THE ECONOMY, BUT AT THE EXPENSE OF WHO IS THE QUESTION THAT WE NEED TO BE ASKING. THINK IT'S A QUESTION THAT PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE ASKING THEMSELVES. BUT IT'S ONE THAT WE NEED TO. MY OWN EXPERIENCE IS THAT I HAVE BEEN A CHILD LABOURER. I HAD TO WORK BEFORE I SHOULD HAVE. WE DON'T ALL GET THE SAME PRIVILEGES AND WE DON'T ALL START AT THE SAME STARTING LINE. SOME OF US HAVE TO RUN MARATHONS TO GET THERE. DO I THINK ANYONE IN PARLIAMENT AS BEING A VOICE FOR THOSE CHILDREN? I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT. I THINK THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN AUTHENTICALLY TELL THOSE STORIES AND THOSE VOICES ARE THE CHILDREN THEMSELVES. THAT REQUIRES A LISTENING THAT I DON'T THINK THAT POLITICS CAN CAPTURE. FELIX, FILI IS VERY DIFFICULT TO FOLLOW BECAUSE I OR WANT TO STOP AND I JUST WHAT SHE HAS SAID. TAMAKI AS A CONSERVATIVE ELECTORATE. RICH WHITE FOLK BY AND LARGE. FORGIVE THE STEREOTYPE, TAMAKI. WHAT WAS TAMAKI TELLING US, DO YOU THINK, WHEN THEY VOTED FOR BROOKE? WITHOUT VOTING FOR HER OR ACT? I THINK FOR BROOKE BECAUSE SHE SPOKE TO EVERYONE IN THAT COMMUNITY. SHE OFFERED REAL SOLUTIONS. SHE WORKED IMMENSELY HARD AND THAT ELECTORATE DOORKNOCKING, AND I THINK SHE HAS EARNED HER RESULT AND I'M REALLY PROUD OF HER. QUICK QUESTIONS LIKE IN THE LEADERS DEBATE. SHOULD WE TEACH CIVICS IN SCHOOLS? ABSOLUTELY. YES. IF THE SCHOOL WANTS TO TEACHER, FOR SURE. ? SHOULD THE VOTING AGE BE 16 YES BUT INTRODUCED WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT FIRST. YES. THE LAST ELECTION, I WASN'T OLD ENOUGH TO VOTE BUT I WAS DRAGGED THROUGH THE ELECTION ANYWAY. (CHUCKLES) I WAS PART OF THAT. YOU HAVE TO PICK AND AGE. 18 IS FINE, I THINK. WHY ISN'T 16 THE BETTER AGE? GIVEN THE POINT THAT FILI IS MAKING. THINK IT'S A MISTAKE TO THINK THAT IF YOU DROP THE AGE YOU ARE GOING TO GET YOUNG PEOPLE ENGAGED. YOUNG PEOPLE AREN'T NOT ENGAGE BECAUSE OF THE VOTING AGE. IT'S BECAUSE POLITICIANS DON'T SPEAK TO THEIR ISSUES. IF THEY ARE ALL ENOUGH TO PAY TAXES, THEY ARE ALL ENOUGH TO VOTE. THAT'S WHAT I THINK. THIS IS A TOUGH QUESTION TO PLONK ON YOU. WE WILL END ON THIS. I WILL START AT THAT END OF THE COUCH. WHAT DO YOU MOST HOPE FOR FROM THIS GOVERNMENT? I THINK I REALLY HOPE FOR A CHANGE IN THE WAY THAT WE RUN GOVERNMENT. FOR TOO LONG, IT HAS GOT IN THE WAY OF REAL PROGRESS IN OUR SOCIETY AND ACTUALLY GETTING ON TOP OF HUGE ISSUES LIKE PRODUCTIVITY AND HOUSING. IF WE SEE THAT CHANGE DURING BUDGET, I WILL BE VERY PROUD. I WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD PUT ENVIRONMENT FIRST. I SAY THAT BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THE ECONOMY VERSUS THE ENVIRONMENT. BUT THE THING IS, AT THE RATE THAT NATURAL DISASTERS ARE COMING, IT'S A TERRIBLE PLACE FOR OUR COMMUNITIES TO BE AT. I WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD ALSO CONSIDER THE FACT THAT WE ARE IN THE PACIFIC AND INDIGENOUS VOICES MATTER, THE FACT THAT TUVALU IS ABOUT TO BECOME DIGITALISED. IT IS DYSTOPIAN. HAVING CLIMATE CHANGE INITIATIVES BASED ON INDIVIDUAL ACTIONS RATHER THAN SYSTEMIC CHANGE WILL NOT HELP. THAT IS MY MOST HOPEFUL HOPE. I WOULD HOPE THAT A LOT OF THE REFORM REPEALS THAT HAVE BEEN PROMISED BY THE INCOMING GOVERNMENT WON'T JUST BE REPEALED FOR THE PACE OF REPEALING. I THINK WHETHER YOU DISAGREE WITH A METHOD OF HOW THOSE REFORMS HAVE HAPPENED IN THE PROGRESS WITH THEM, WE ALL AGREE THAT THE SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING. THAT IS ACROSS-THE-BOARD, WITH INFRASTRUCTURE AND OUR SOCIAL ISSUES AND COST OF LIVING. BUT WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT AS WELL, I THINK WITH THE RMA REFORMS, LOCAL GOVERNMENT REFORMS, EVEN THREE WATERS REFORMS, THERE ARE DETAILS IN THERE THAT I THINK WILL BE VERY VALUABLE IN TWO HOW WE ACTUALLY START ENACTING THAT CHANGE. BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO IT NOW. WE CANNOT KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD AND WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT MASSIVE NATURAL DISASTER AND FLOODS TO HIT AREAS IN OUR COUNTRY. THREE OF YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. APPRECIATE HAVING YOU IN HERE. I URGE YOU TO KEEP PARTICIPATING AND KEEP MAKING THE DIFFERENCE THAT YOU ARE SO DETERMINED TO MAKE. THE PERIOD IMMEDIATELY AFTER A NEW GOVERNMENT IS ELECTED CAN BE A TIME OF GREAT UNCERTAINTY. WHAT WILL THEY DO? WHAT MIGHT IT MEAN FOR US? ONE THING NATIONAL HAS SAID IT WILL DO IS FUND ITS TAX CUTS WITH A $600 MILLION REDUCTION IN PUBLIC SPENDING. ACT WANTS IT CUT BY MORE ` SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. YOU CAN'T CUT PUBLIC SPENDING BY THAT MUCH WITHOUT LOSING PUBLIC SERVICE JOBS. NATIONAL HAS GIVEN VERY FEW DETAILS, BUT INSISTED THEY'LL BE IN NON-ESSENTIAL BACK OFFICE ROLES. JONATHAN BOSTON IS EMERITUS PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC POLICY AT THE SCHOOL OF BUSINESS AND GOVERNMENT AT VICTORIA UNIVERSITY. WE VISTED HIM IN WELLINGTON, WHERE PEOPLE ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY LIKELY TO WORK IN THE PUBLIC SERVICE, TO ASK HIM WHAT THIS MIGHT MEAN. ALTOGETHER, OUR PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYMENT IS AROUND 19% OF TOTAL EMPLOYMENT, WHICH IS JUST A LITTLE BIT OVER THE OECD AVERAGE. SO WE'RE PRETTY CLOSE TO THE` SO WE'RE TALKING ROUGHLY ONE JOB IN FIVE IN THIS COUNTRY? ROUGHLY ONE IN FIVE. RIGHT. SO THAT IS AN ENORMOUS NUMBER OF PEOPLE. MM. AND IF WE LOOK OUT THE WINDOW HERE, WE CAN SEE THE BEEHIVE. MM-HM. IT'S ABOUT TO HAVE NEW OCCUPANTS... YES. ...IN THE FORM OF A NEW PRIME MINISTER WHO HAS TALKED ABOUT CUTS OF SOMEWHERE IN THE REGION OF 6.5%... MM. ...POTENTIALLY WORKING WITH A COALITION PARTNER WHO'S TALKING ABOUT EVEN MORE SIGNIFICANT CUTS. YES. IS THERE TREPIDATION? IS THERE UNCERTAINTY? HOW ARE PEOPLE FEELING NOW? MM. WELL, I SUSPECT THERE'S CONSIDERABLE ANXIETY, ER, AMONG... PARTICULARLY SENIOR PEOPLE IN THE CORE PUBLIC SECTOR ` THAT'S THE 40 OR SO GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND DEPARTMENTAL AGENCIES ` ABOUT WHAT IS COMING. BECAUSE IF THE GOVERNMENT WAS TO CUT ROUGHLY, ER, $600 MILLION FROM THEIR BUDGETS, THEY` WHICH IS THE 6.5% CHRISTOPHER LUXON IS TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? CORRECT. AND THAT'S` SO` SORRY TO INTERRUPT, BUT THAT'S LOWER THAN ONE OF HIS COALITION PARTNERS WANTS? YES. A LOT LESS. SO... YES. YES. SO THAT'S 600 MILLION IN A BUDGET OF AROUND 6 BILLION FOR THE CORE; PLUS, THEY'RE PROPOSING TO CUT AROUND 400 MILLION, ER, FROM THE EXPENDITURE ON... CONTRACTORS, YEAH. ...CONSULTANTS AND CONTRACTORS, WHICH IS AROUND 1.2 BILLION PER ANNUM. SO THOSE ARE PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL CUTS. AND WE HAVE TO BEAR IN MIND WE'RE IN A CONTEXT WHERE THERE'S INFLATION OF AROUND 5% TO 6%. SO IF YOU WERE TO CUT, ERM, AROUND 500 MILLION, 600 MILLION, ERM, THAT'S` THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A VERY SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTION IN EXPENDITURE ON THE CORE PUBLIC SECTOR. ER, AND IN THE CONTEXT OF INFLATION, YOU'RE TALKING REAL CUTS OF ABOUT 12%, 13%, 14%. NOW, THAT WON'T BE IN EVERY DEPARTMENT, BECAUSE IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THERE ARE GOING TO BE AREAS OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR THAT ARE GOING TO BE EXPANDED. FOR EXAMPLE, ALMOST CERTAINLY THERE'S GOING TO BE FURTHER INVESTMENT IN IN CORRECTIONS, ERM, SO THERE'LL BE MORE PRISON OFFICERS AND MORE... PRISONS, I GUESS. ER... THERE'S ALSO PROPOSALS TO EXPAND THE DEFENCE FORCES. HOW QUICKLY THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO ACHIEVE THOSE SORTS OF REDUCTIONS... ERM, IF IT WANTS TO ACHIEVE THEM VERY QUICKLY ` FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE FINANCIAL YEAR 2024/2025 ` THEN IT WOULD RESULT IN VERY SIGNIFICANT STAFFING REDUCTIONS OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS, AND THAT WOULD ALMOST CERTAINLY ENTAIL SOME REDUNDANCIES. SO I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE ASKING THEMSELVES ` IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR AND AMONG MINISTERS ` IS, YOU KNOW, 'HOW MUCH WOULD THE GOVERNMENT WANT TO SPEND ON REDUNDANCY PAY-OUTS?' ERM... MOST PEOPLE DON'T THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD USE OF PUBLIC MONEY. (CHUCKLES) ER, ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU'RE NOT PREPARED TO ACTUALLY... YOU KNOW, MAKE PEOPLE REDUNDANT AND PAY THEM OUT, THEN IT'S GOING TO TAKE LONGER, OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, TO... TO... (SIGHS) REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE CORE PUBLIC SECTOR BY THE AMOUNT THAT'S PROBABLY IN PEOPLE'S MINDS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE ACT PARTY WANTS TO RETURN THE CORE PUBLIC SECTOR TO ABOUT WHERE IT WAS SIX YEARS AGO... 2017, YEAH. ...WHICH WAS ABOUT 47,000. SO THAT'S A REDUCTION IN, YOU KNOW, ROUGHLY 15,000 PEOPLE, ER, WHICH IS A LOT OF PEOPLE. ON ELECTION NIGHT, ONE OF OUR PANELLISTS SUGGESTED THAT THE PUBLIC SERVICE` THAT LABOUR MIGHT REGARD THE PUBLIC SERVICE AS HAVING LET IT DOWN IN SOME AREAS ` HAVING WORKED TOO SLOWLY... MM. ...HAVING LOOKED TOO CUMBERSOME, HAVING TAKEN TOO LONG, I GUESS. MM. SO IS THAT A FAIR CRITICISM THAT LABOUR`? IS IT`? HM. COULD THE PUBLIC SERVICE HAVE DONE MORE FOR LABOUR AND THEREFORE FOR ITSELF? MM. WE CAN'T IGNORE THE FACT THAT WE HAD A PANDEMIC, THE MOST SEVERE PANDEMIC IN A CENTURY. THE OUTGOING GOVERNMENT TRIED TO IMPLEMENT MAJOR REFORMS IN MANY AREAS SIMULTANEOUSLY ` SO IN HEALTH, IN EDUCATION AND TERTIARY EDUCATION, FOR EXAMPLE; IN RELATION TO THE THREE WATERS, ERM, IN RELATION TO RESOURCE MANAGEMENT; AND SO THE LIST GOES ON. AND MANY OF THESE REFORMS WERE VERY BIG. ERM, MY SENSE IS THAT... (SIGHS) THE GOVERNMENT MAY HAVE TRIED TO DO TOO MUCH TOO QUICKLY. ERM, BUT SECONDLY` OR THIRDLY, ER... (SIGHS) I THINK THE GOVERNMENT CAN RIGHTLY FEEL AGGRIEVED THAT SOME DEPARTMENTS JUST DIDN'T DELIVER QUICKLY ENOUGH. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT REFORMS. THE... THE MAJOR REPORT WAS FINISHED IN AUGUST 2020. THIS IS THE RANDERSON REPORT? THE RANDERSON REVIEW ` ADMITTEDLY IN THE MIDDLE OF A... PANDEMIC. BUT IT THEN TOOK THREE YEARS TO GET THE LEGISLATION IMPLEMENTING THE PROPOSALS IN THE RANDERSON REVIEW ON TO THE STATUTE BOOKS. AND... WELL, SOME WOULD SAY THAT WAS THE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT BECAUSE IT TRIED TO UNDERTAKE UNDULY COMPREHENSIVE REFORM IN THE AREA OF RESOURCE MANAGEMENT; OTHERS MIGHT SAY, WELL, THE MINISTRY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT COULD HAVE DONE (CHUCKLES) THE JOB MORE QUICKLY. I'M NOT SURE WHO'S RIGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT... YOU KNOW, THERE WILL BE DIFFERING VIEWS (CHUCKLES) DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU SIT. ER, FOR THE OUTGOING GOVERNMENT, OF COURSE, THE UNFORTUNATE THING IS THAT THE INCOMING GOVERNMENT HAS SAID IT'S GOING TO REPLACE THE LEGISLATION THAT IT'S TAKEN THREE YEARS TO PUT ON THE STATUTE BOOKS. SO POTENTIALLY, MANY ASPECTS OF WHAT WAS PROPOSED WON'T BE IMPLEMENTED OR WILL BE IMPLEMENTED VERY DIFFERENTLY FROM WHAT WAS INTENDED. ONE OF THE THINGS` I'M SURE IF CHRISTOPHER LUXON'S WATCHING THIS ` AND I SUSPECT HE WILL ` UH, HE'S GOING TO SAY NONE OF THESE CUTS WILL HAVE ANY IMPACT ON FRONTLINE SERVICES. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, AND WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FRONTLINE AND EVERYTHING ELSE... MM. ...IN THE PUBLIC SERVICE? SO... (SIGHS) DEFINITIONALLY, PEOPLE WHO ARE REGARDED AS FRONTLINE WORKERS ARE THOSE WHO WORK DIRECTLY WITH CUSTOMERS, CONSUMERS, CLIENTS, CITIZENS; WHEREAS PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSEDLY 'BACK-OFFICE' STAFF DON'T HAVE THAT DIRECT INTERACTION WITH CUSTOMERS, CONSUMERS, CLIENTS, CITIZENS. BUT THE DISTINCTION IS OPEN TO DEBATE. FOR EXAMPLE, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HERE IN WELLINGTON, ER, WOULD SEE THEIR MINISTER AS, IF YOU LIKE, THEIR PRIMARY CLIENT OR... OR CUSTOMER. ER, IT'S THEIR MINISTER WHO'S, IN EFFECT, BUYING THEIR ADVISORY SERVICES. ERM, SO... AND TREA` DOES THAT MAKE THEM FRONTLINE? WELL... (CHUCKLES) I DON'T` I WAS GOING TO SAY ` TREASURY IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF THAT, ISN'T IT? ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, TREASURY HAS NO FRONT LINE SORT OF OPERATION AT ALL, REALLY. IT'S` IT'S... WELL, NO FRONT LINE IF YOU` IF YOU TAKE THE VIEW THAT PROVIDING ADVICE TO MINISTERS IS NOT A FRONTLINE SERVICE. THAT'S IT ` OTHER THAN THAT. YES. YES. SO THAT'S IT, ISN'T IT? THAT'S THEIR JOB. BUT THERE IS` AND YET THAT JOB IS ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL. CRITICAL. RIGHT. YES. ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL. YES. SO, ERM` (SIGHS) ER, THE SECOND POINT TO MAKE HERE, I GUESS, IS THAT FRONTLINE STAFF ` EVEN DEFINED NARROWLY AS PEOPLE SIMPLY ENGAGING WITH CITIZENS, SO NOT MINISTERS ` THEIR CAPACITY TO ENGAGE DEPENDS HEAVILY ON THE QUALITY OF THE BACK-OFFICE STAFF. SO THIS IS PEOPLE WORKING IN HUMAN RESOURCE MANAGEMENT, FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT, ACCOUNTING, COMMUNICATIONS, INFORMATION SERVICES, IT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. SO, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT CUTS TO SO-CALLED 'BACK OFFICE' FUNCTIONS COULD HAVE, AT LEAST IN SOME CASES, A VERY DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THE CAPACITY OF SO-CALLED FRONTLINE STAFF TO DO THEIR JOB. SO I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL HERE. SIMPLISTIC LANGUAGE HERE DOES NOT REALLY HELP. WE NEED A MUCH MORE SORT OF SOPHISTICATED UNDERSTANDING OF THE INTERDEPENDENCIES BETWEEN DIFFERENT PARTS OF AN ORGANISATION ` AND, INDEED, BETWEEN DIFFERENT ORGANISATIONS. IT'S OCTOBER 2023. IF WE ARE SITTING HERE IN OCTOBER 2026... MM. ...WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HAVE CHANGED? WELL, I THINK WE'LL HAVE A SOMEWHAT SMALLER (CHUCKLES) CORE PUBLIC SERVICE; WE'LL HAVE A SOMEWHAT SMALLER AMOUNT OF MONEY, AT LEAST IN REAL TERMS, PROBABLY, SPENT ON THE CORE PUBLIC SERVICE; ERM, I SUSPECT WE WILL HAVE HAD PUT IN PLACE A SERIES OF PUBLIC SERVICE TARGETS ` WHICH IS WHAT THE PREVIOUS NATIONAL-LED GOVERNMENT DID ` AND PUBLIC SERVANTS WILL BE FOCUSED VERY SPECIFICALLY ON TRYING TO MEET THOSE TARGETS; ERM, I SUSPECT WE WILL HAVE A STRONGER FOCUS ON DELIVERY ` ENSURING THAT PEOPLE GET THE KIND OF PUBLIC SERVICES THAT THE GOVERNMENT WANTS THEM TO HAVE AND THAT THEY'RE ENTITLED TO. SO I SUSPECT THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WILL BE UPPERMOST, AT LEAST IN THE MINDS OF` OF MINISTERS AND SOME VOTERS. FOR MYSELF, WHAT I WOULD SAY, AMONG OTHER THINGS, IS THAT THE PUBLIC SERVICE UNDERTAKES LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF TASKS ` MANY OF THEM PEOPLE NEVER SEE, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR NORMAL LIFE; IT'S PURSUING THOUSANDS OF DIFFERENT OBJECTIVES; AND THAT IT'S REALLY RATHER... (SIGHS) HOW CAN I PUT IT? ` ERM, UNWISE TO FOCUS UNDULY ON THE NUMBER OF STAFF IN A PARTICULAR PART OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR, OR ON A PARTICULAR NUMBER WHEN IT COMES TO EXPENDITURE ON A PARTICULAR PART OF THE OF` OF THE PUBLIC SECTOR. ERM, I THINK THERE ARE MORE, YOU KNOW, CRITICAL (CHUCKLES) THINGS THAN THAT IN THE END ` WHICH INCLUDES HAVING A PUBLIC SERVICE WHICH IS TRUSTED BY CITIZENS, HAVING A PUBLIC SERVICE THAT HAS THE CAPABILITY TO RESPOND TO CRISES SUCH AS A PANDEMIC, SUCH AS A MASSIVE EARTHQUAKE, SUCH AS... WE'VE HAD 17 SEVERE WEATHER EVENTS THAT HAVE TRIGGERED DECLARATIONS OF STATES OF EMERGENCY THIS YEAR ALONE. WE NEED A CAPACITY TO RESPOND TO THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. COUNTING THE NUMBER OF DIGITS OR THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ` OR, INDEED, THE NUMBER OF DOLLARS ` IS NOT, IN MY VIEW, NECESSARILY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THE INTERESTS OF CITIZENS, ER, NOW AND IN THE FUTURE. AND WE NEED TO BEAR IN MIND THAT THIS IS REALLY QUITE CRITICAL. WE HAVE ENORMOUS CHALLENGES FACING THIS COUNTRY AND, INDEED, HUMANITY AS A WHOLE OVER THE COMING YEARS ` HUGE TECHNOLOGICAL CHANGES, MASSIVE CHANGES IN DEMOGRAPHY, BIG GEOPOLITICAL CHANGES; AND, PERHAPS ABOVE ALL, EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT AND CHALLENGING ECOLOGICAL ISSUES, NOT LEAST CLIMATE CHANGE. WE NEED A PUBLIC SECTOR THAT CAN PROVIDE REALLY GOOD ADVICE AND BE ABLE TO PUT NEW ZEALAND IN A POSITION TO BOTH MINIMISE THE SORT OF RISKS THAT WE SUFFER BUT ALSO MAXIMISE THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT... THIS CONFLUENCE OF VERY POWERFUL FORCES IS GOING TO GENERATE. EMERITUS PROFESSOR JONATHAN BOSTON. WE ACTUALLY RECORDED FOR A LOT LONGER WITH PROFESSOR BOSTON, INCLUDING A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHO THE INCOMING GOVERNMENT MIGHT APPOINT TO BE THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSIONER ` WHICH IS AMONG THE MOST IMPORTANT UNELECTED JOBS IN THE COUNTRY. IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE WHOLE THING, GO TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL ` THAT'S @NZQANDA ON YOUTUBE. STAY WITH US ` WE'LL WILL BE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. KUA MUTU. THAT'S Q+A FOR THIS WEEK. FROM THE Q+A TEAM, PARTICULARLY HELEN. THANKS FOR WATCHING AND NGA MIHI KI A KOUTOU I NGA KARERE. AND JACK WILL BE BACK NEXT SUNDAY AT NINE. HE IS HAVING ARE WELL AND BREAK. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023