ATA MARIE, I AM REBECCA WRIGHT. AND I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. E NGA IWI O TE MOTU, WELCOME TO NEWSHUB NATION. WELL, FROM A HISTORIC MAJORITY TO OPPOSITION IN ONE TERM, WHAT WENT WRONG FOR LABOUR? AND HOW DOES IT REBUILD? WE ASK CARMEL SEPULONI. WINSTON'S BACK, BUT UNCHARACTERISTICALLY QUIET. SO WHAT WILL HE BE LIKE IN NEGOTIATIONS? FORMER NZ FIRST MP RON MARK WITH HIS INSIGHTS. AND WE MEET SOME OF PARLIAMENT'S NEWEST MPs. CAPTIONS BY JESSIE PURU AND KATE HARRIS. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 IT'S BEEN A TOUGH WEEK FOR LABOUR ` LOSING THE ELECTION AND 31 MPS, ITS VOTE SLASHED ALMOST IN HALF. WHAT FOLLOWS ARE HARD QUESTIONS. SHOULD CHRIS HIPKINS STAY ON AS LEADER? HOW CAN THEY REBUILD? AND WHAT WENT SO WRONG? I ASKED OUTGOING DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER CARMEL SEPULONI WHETHER THE MAGNITUDE OF THE LOSS HAD SUNK IN YET. I THINK IT HAS. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE WON'T GO THROUGH ALL THE STAGES OF THE GRIEVING PROCESS, I THINK, OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, BUT THIS IS THE NATURE OF THINGS. I'VE BEEN AROUND A LITTLE WHILE. I'VE BEEN IN ELECTIONS THAT WE'VE WON AND ELECTIONS THAT WE'VE LOST. AND SO THIS IS JUST PART OF WHAT WE SIGNED UP FOR. PART OF THAT GRIEVING PROCESS IS BLAME. CHRIS HIPKINS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE HAD A SLOW START TO THE CAMPAIGN. IS SOME OF THE CAUCUS BLAMING HIM? NO, NOT AT ALL. AND IN FACT, I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT GOING INTO THIS ELECTION, WE DID HAVE UNITY WITHIN OUR CAUCUS. IT'S A DIFFERENT FEEL FROM SOME OF THE OTHER CAUCUSES I'VE BEEN IN OVER THE COURSE OF TIME, TO BE HONEST, SIMON. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE SHOULDN'T SIT DOWN AND REVIEW WHAT HAPPENED. BUT IT WASN'T A BLOODBATH LIKE WE SAW, SAY, 2014, WHERE IT WAS A SEVEN-HOUR CAUCUS AFTER THAT ELECTION. CERTAINLY WASN'T THE CASE. SO THE KNIVES WEREN'T OUT IN CAUCUS THIS WEEK AT ALL? NO. OK. WHEN YOU SAY UNITY GOING INTO CAUCUS, YOU MEAN UNITY GOING TO THE CAUCUS THIS WEEK THAT YOU WANTED CHIPPY TO STAY ON AS LEADER? OH, WE HAD A UNIFIED CAUCUS THROUGHOUT THE PERIOD OF TIME. SO THROUGHOUT THE TERM LEADING UP TO THE ELECTION, DURING THE CAMPAIGN, NO DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE ON LEADERSHIP AT THIS POINT IN TIME. I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WHAT CHIPPY SAID, IS THAT, ACTUALLY, HAVE GOT TO WAIT UNTIL THE FULL CAUCUS IS IN, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHO IS IN AND WHO IS OUT NECESSARILY UNTIL NOVEMBER THE 3RD. AND SO YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR THAT PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE TO MAKE THE DECISION. SURE, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE VERY MUCH. SO IS CAUCUS UNIFIED BEHIND CHRIS HIPKINS? RIGHT NOW, HE'S STILL THE PRIME MINISTER OF THIS COUNTRY, SO OF COURSE WE ARE UNIFIED BEHIND HIM. AND HE IS STILL THE LEADER OF THE LABOUR PARTY. ANY DECISIONS FOR THE FUTURE HAVE TO BE MADE BY THE CAUCUS. THAT WON'T BE CONFIRMED UNTIL NOVEMBER THE 3RD. DO YOU BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS HE STILL HAS FIGHT IN HIM? YEAH I DO. I'VE KNOWN CHRIS SINCE 2008 WHEN WE GOT IN, AND AS A BACKBENCH MP, WORKING WITH HIM AS A WHIP, SEEING HIM AS LEADER, HE CERTAINLY DOES STILL HAVE FIGHT. BUT HE LOOKED PRETTY BROKEN ON ELECTION NIGHT. YOU MUST ADMIT THAT. I THINK IT'S FAIR AND REASONABLE THAT SOME OF US MIGHT HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT TIRED OFF THE BACK OF THAT CAMPAIGN AND OFF THE ELECTION NIGHT AND ELECTION RESULT, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE FIRE IS NOT THERE. AND PERHAPS SOME OF US JUST NEED A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO REJUVENATE AFTER THAT. RIGHT, OK. YOU OBVIOUSLY WILL BE DOING THE INTROSPECTION OF WHAT WENT WRONG. IT WAS A WALLOPING, A MASSIVE ALMOST HALF OF SUPPORT DISAPPEARING. WAS THAT THE POLICIES THAT YOU TRIED TO GET OVER THE LINE? THINGS LIKE GST OFF FRUIT AND VEG, IT DIDN'T RESONATE. IT WAS DISLIKED BY THE FINANCE MINISTER. WAS THAT A MAJOR MISTAKE FOR A MAJOR POLICY? I THINK IT WAS A COMBINATION OF THINGS, AND THIS IS WHERE ACTUALLY REVIEWING WHAT HAPPENED IS GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT. I DO WANT TO NOTE AS WELL THAT OFF THE BACK OF THE PANDEMIC, MANY GOVERNMENTS INTERNATIONALLY HAVE STRUGGLED TO GET RE-ELECTED, GIVEN WHAT THEIR POPULATION, THEIR CONSTITUENTS KIND OF ENCOUNTERED AND FELT DURING` DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE PANDEMIC AND YOUR HANDLING OF THE PANDEMIC AND THE RESULTS OF THE PANDEMIC... I'M SAYING` ARE A REASON THAT YOU'RE NOT IN POWER NOW? I THINK THAT THAT IS A CONSIDERATION. I DO NOT THINK IT IS THE SOLE REASON, SIMON, AND I NEVER WOULD. BUT I WOULD SAY THIS IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING INTERNATIONALLY. IT IS PART OF THE EXPERIENCE, I GUESS. BUT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO AWAY AND REVIEW EVERY ASPECT OF WHAT OCCURRED SO THAT WE CAN TAKE AN HONEST LOOK AT OURSELVES TOO, TO SEE WHERE WE FELL SHORT. AND I'M NOT GOING TO SAY THAT WE DIDN'T FALL SHORT IN SOME SPACES. WE CERTAINLY MAY HAVE, AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT. SURE. I MEAN, LIKE IF WE JUST GO BACK TO THE POLICIES, LIKE, THERE WAS A SENSE THAT YOU WERE A BIT LATE TO THE PARTY ON THINGS. THERE WAS THE YOUTH JUSTICE. THERE WAS ALSO THE DENTAL CARE. THE GREENS HAD ALREADY ANNOUNCED THAT. I MEAN, DO YOU SENSE THAT LABOUR WAS SLOW OFF THE BLOCKS? WELL, I THINK THAT SINCE CHIPPY CAME IN, YOU KNOW, HE WAS VERY CLEAR ABOUT REPRIORITISATION, VERY CLEAR ABOUT INTRODUCING POLICIES EVEN BEFORE THE ELECTION THAT RESPONDED TO THE COST OF LIVING FOR NEW ZEALANDERS. AND THEN THAT WAS OUR PRIMARY FOCUS GOING INTO THE ELECTION. SO ACTUALLY, NO, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT WE WERE SLOW OFF THE BLOCKS, BUT I WOULD SAY WE CAN SEE WHEN WE LOOK BACKWARDS ALREADY THAT, REALLY, AT THE END OF 2021, AND MANY POLITICAL COMMENTATORS HAVE CITED THIS, THAT'S WHEN WE STARTED TO SEE US SLIP DOWN. WE WERE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO RETAIN THE HIGHS OF THE 2020 ELECTION. THAT'S A GIVEN, BUT WE CERTAINLY START TO SEE IT SLIP AWAY AT AROUND THE END OF 2021, AND WE NEVER REALLY REGAINED. IF YOU HAVE SUCH FORESIGHT OR YOU HAD SUCH WARNING FROM THE END OF '21, WHAT ELSE COULD YOU HAVE DONE? FOR EXAMPLE, AND THIS GOES BACK TO CHRIS HIPKINS WITH HIS CAPTAIN'S CALL ABOUT WEALTH AND CGT, SHOULD YOU HAVE BEEN BOLDER? WELL, I MEAN, AGAIN, I'M NOT GOING TO PUT IT DOWN TO POLICIES AT THIS POINT IN TIME BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WOULD HAVE CHANGED THE RESULT, TO BE HONEST, AND WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO RETROSPECTIVELY LOOK AT SOME OF THAT STUFF. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WE HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, HINDSIGHT WITH 2021, AND WHEN THINGS STARTED TO SLIP AWAY AT THE END OF 2021, HINDSIGHT IS A NICE THING. YEAH. OF COURSE. AND SO WE NEED TO LOOK FORWARD NOW. WE DO NEED TO REVIEW WHAT HAPPENED, HOW THIS LOSS CAME TO BE, WHERE WE FELL SHORT AS A POLITICAL PARTY, AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO REBUILD. IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME WE'VE BEEN IN A POSITION WHERE WE END UP WITH ONLY 34 MPS, THOUGH, SIMON. I THINK 2011 WAS THE CASE, 2014` BUT YOU DIDN'T COME OFF AN ABSOLUTE MAJORITY AT THAT TIME. YEAH, NO, CERTAINLY DIDN'T. AND ABSOLUTELY ACCEPT THAT. CAN WE DIVE DOWN INTO A BIT OF THE NITTY GRITTY JUST RIGHT NOW IN A COUPLE OF THE AREAS WHERE, SURPRISINGLY, LABOUR DID GET WALLOPED? FIRST OF ALL, IN SOUTH AUCKLAND, YOU WERE RELYING ON THOSE POLLING BOOTHS TO COME OUT EN MASSE, AND THEY DID NOT. SO WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR MASSIVE SUPPORT IN SOUTH AUCKLAND? WELL, AGAIN, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO AWAY AND ASK SOME QUESTIONS. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEAS? IF I WAS TO SPECULATE RIGHT NOW, THEN I THINK THAT I'D BE MAKING MY OWN ASSUMPTIONS. AND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY REFLECTIVE OF THE CONSTITUENTS THAT LIVE THERE. YOU KNOW, WE DO KNOW THAT I WOULD SAY IN AUCKLAND` BECAUSE I LIVE IN AUCKLAND AND I'LL SAY THIS ` YOU KNOW, THERE IS A FRUSTRATION AND A TIREDNESS THAT'S SET IN BECAUSE OF EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED OVER RECENT YEARS. ESPECIALLY THE LOCKDOWN. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LOCKDOWN? YOU KNOW, THE LENGTHENED RESTRICTIONS FOR LOCKDOWN, THE WEATHER EVENTS, AND THEN CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE YOUR LOCAL DAIRY GETTING, YOU KNOW, RAM-RAIDED, THEN OF COURSE YOU'RE LOOKING AROUND AND YOU'RE THINKING, HANG ON A SECOND. THIS DOESN'T MAKE ME FEEL VERY GOOD AND DOESN'T... AND SO IT'S A COMBINATION OF THINGS. AND I THINK IN AUCKLAND, WE CERTAINLY FELT THAT AT A HIGH LEVEL` IF YOU'D RESPONDED QUICKER TO THAT LAST POINT THAT YOU RAISED, MAYBE YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD SUCH A DRUBBING IN AUCKLAND. LOOK, I THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY THINGS THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO RESILE FROM THE FACT THAT WE FOCUSSED ON WRAPAROUND SUPPORTS FOR THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE AND TRYING TO ADDRESS THE SOCIAL ISSUES THAT IMPACTED THEM AND THEIR WHANAU, BECAUSE ACTUALLY WE HAVE SEEN A REDUCTION IN RAM-RAIDS BECAUSE OF THAT AND LESS RE-OFFENDING. BUT WE CAN TRAVERSE THIS. (STAMMERS) YEAH. IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T HELP WITH THE RESULT. NO, NO. AND THE OTHER PART OF THE RESULT I WANT TO LOOK AT WHICH IS LABOUR'S URBAN STRONGHOLDS IN AUCKLAND, RIGHT? NEW LYNN GONE. MT ROSKILL GONE. TE ATATU, MT ALBERT ON THE BRINK. WHY DID THE MIDDLE CLASS LABOUR VOTERS ABANDON YOU? THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE HAVE TO ASK, AND SO WE'LL CERTAINLY BE GOING AWAY AND ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS. I DON'T WANT TO MAKE ANY ASSERTIONS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEN I'M PRE-EMPTING WHAT WE THINK THE PSYCHE OF THE VOTERS WERE. AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE GO OUT THERE AND WE FIND SOME OF THOSE ANSWERS DIRECTLY FROM THEM RATHER THAN MAKE THEM UP. IN TERMS OF LABOUR'S UNDERSTANDING OF THE ELECTORATE AND OF THE RESULT, LIKE HELEN WHITE IN MT ALBERT SAID THIS WEEK THAT SHE DID PRETTY DAMN WELL, BUT SHE'S ONLY HOLDING ON BY A FEW HUNDRED VOTES. THAT'S NOT REALLY AN HONEST APPRAISAL. CAN WE EXPECT AN HONEST APPRAISAL FROM LABOUR? YEAH, DEFINITELY AN HONEST APPRAISAL. I THINK SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE QUICK TO LOOK AT INDIVIDUAL SEATS AND JUST TO SEE WHERE THEY WON BY A LANDSLIDE OR NOT. AND WHAT WE NEED TO ALSO DO IS DO THAT ANALYSIS AROUND WHERE PARTY VOTE DROPPED, HOW MUCH IT DROPPED BY. WHEN THE TIDE GOES OUT, THEN YOU SEE THAT HAPPEN ACROSS THE BOARD. SOME MAY HAVE DONE BETTER THAN OTHERS, BUT WE HAVEN'T EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY ANALYSE. SURE, AND THE TIDE HAS GONE OUT IN THOSE URBAN CENTRAL. YOU'VE GOT SOME GREEN SPROUTS COMING THROUGH THERE, HAVEN'T YOU? YOU'VE GOT AUCKLAND CENTRAL, WELLINGTON CENTRAL, POSSIBLY RONGOTAI. SO THE GREENS ARE PULLING IN VOTERS WHERE YOU HAVE LOST THEM. DID THEY RUN THE CAMPAIGN PERHAPS WHERE LABOUR DIDN'T? NO, I THINK IF WE LOOK AT THE LEFT BLOC, UNFORTUNATELY, WE LOST THE VOTE. YOU KNOW, REALLY, IT'S NOT SO MUCH, FROM MY FIRST GLANCE AT IT ANYWAY, THAT WE HAVE JUST LOST A WHOLE LOT OF VOTE TO ANOTHER LEFT PARTY. WE ACTUALLY DIDN'T GET SOME OF THE CRUCIAL, UNDECIDED MIDDLE VOTE. SO YOU LOST THE CENTRE? BUT ALSO, WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE OUR TRADITIONAL VOTE TURN OUT FOR US TO THE SAME EXTENT. SO THERE'S A LOT OF CONSIDERATIONS HERE, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DO LOOK AT THE RANGE OF CONSIDERATIONS. SO A FEW QUICK QUESTIONS BEFORE WE LET YOU GO. YOU WERE A SENIOR MINISTER FOR SIX YEARS. WHAT ARE YOU MOST PROUD OF? THE CHANGES THAT WE MADE IN THE WELFARE SYSTEM. YOU KNOW, OVER $3B TO LIFT BENEFITS AND REVERSING THOSE RUTH RICHARDSON CUTS. RIGHT. A RANGE OF OTHER THINGS IN THE WELFARE SPACE. BUT EVEN THINGS LIKE CHILD SUPPORT PASS ON ` THAT'S GOING TO LIFT UP TO 14,000 CHILDREN OUT OF POVERTY. IT WAS A HARD THING TO CHANGE AND HADN'T BEEN TOUCHED, DESPITE THE FACT IT HAD BEEN IN PLACE SINCE 1936 AND WAS DISCRIMINATORY. BUT WE DID IT. WE HAD THE COURAGE, AND WE DID THE WORK TO DO THAT. AND THAT'S INDICATIVE OF ONLY ONE OF MANY CHANGES. ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT NATIONAL'S POLICY ABOUT BENEFICIARIES? I ABSOLUTELY AM CONCERNED. I ALSO KNOW THAT IF THEY ARE GOING TO TURN THAT AROUND FOR THE 1ST OF APRIL ADJUSTMENTS NEXT YEAR, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO THE LEGISLATION FOR THAT BEFORE CHRISTMAS. AND SO WE QUICKLY NEED TO SWING INTO OPPOSITION MODE. I CERTAINLY WILL BE. AND I KNOW MY COLLEAGUES WILL BE TOO. WILL YOU COME OUT FIGHTING? WE WILL BE COMING OUT FIGHTING AND MAKING SURE NEW ZEALAND KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE LOSING WITH THE CHANGES THAT NATIONAL ARE PROPOSING. OK. ALL RIGHT. WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE REGARDING WINSTON FOR NATIONAL? LOOK, I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE NATIONAL ADVICE FOR WINSTON. GOOD LUCK, THOUGH! BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW ` AND I'M NOT JUST SAYING THIS ` HOW LUXON IS GOING TO MANAGE DAVID SEYMOUR AND WINSTON PETERS ` TWO PEOPLE WHO CAN'T SEEM TO STAND EACH OTHER, NOR BE IN THE SAME ROOM WITH EACH OTHER FOR ANY PERIOD OF TIME. AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY, VERY DIFFICULT COALITION. ALL RIGHT. THEN THERE'S THE PROCESS OF RENEWAL. SO WE HAVE TO JUST REALLY QUICKLY ASK ABOUT THAT. CAN YOU GUARANTEE LEADERSHIP WILL BE SORTED BEFORE CHRISTMAS? I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF IT WASN'T. RIGHT, OK. DO YOU WANT TO BE LABOUR LEADER? UM, I DON'T HAVE ANY AMBITIONS TO BE THE LABOUR LEADER. I WANT TO BE PART OF A STRONG LABOUR CAUCUS, AND I INTEND TO STICK AROUND. SO IF CAUCUS SAID TO YOU, 'YES, CARMEL`' I DON'T HAVE ANY INTENTION TO BE LABOUR LEADER. HOWEVER, I WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE CAUCUS AND PROVIDE WHATEVER SUPPORT THEY ASK ME TO. AND CAN YOU GUARANTEE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO STICK AROUND FOR THIS WHOLE TERM? THAT'S MY INTENTION, SIMON. AND ACTUALLY, WHEN I WENT INTO OPPOSITION LAST TIME, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING. THIS TIME ROUND, I KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE. SO LET'S SEE HOW THIS GOES. CARMEL SEPULONI, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. A MURI I NGA WHAKATAIRANGA ` OUR PANEL'S TAKE ON WHAT KIND OF PRIME MINISTER CHRISTOPHER LUXON WILL BE. BUT FIRST, FORMER NZ FIRST MINISTER RON MARK ON HOW TO NEGOTIATE WITH WINSTON PETERS. NEW ZEALAND FIRST IS BACK IN PARLIAMENT, AND IT'S LOOKING LIKE IT COULD VERY WELL BE BACK IN GOVERNMENT TOO. AS FOR WINSTON PETERS, HE'S BEEN UNUSUALLY QUIET THIS WEEK, REFUSING TO TALK TO REPORTERS. THE TONE SET FOR THESE NEGOTIATIONS BY CHRISTOPHER LUXON WHO'S REFUSED TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE PROCESS. SO WE WENT TO FORMER NEW ZEALAND FIRST MP RON MARK FOR INSIGHT ON WINSTON AND WHAT HE DEMANDS IN THE NEGOTIATING ROOM. WE ALL KNOW WINSTON PETERS THE POLITICIAN, BUT WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WINSTON PETERS THE PERSON? WINSTON IS QUITE A UNIQUE CHARACTER. YOU CAN SAY THAT EVERYONE BELIEVES` EVERYONE KNOWS THAT, BUT WHAT THEY DON'T KNOW IS ABOUT HIM AS A PERSON. HE'S RAISED IN VERY ROUGH CIRCUMSTANCES. HE'S COME UP THE HARD WAY. HE HAD MAORI FATHER AND A SCOTTISH MOTHER, AND SHE WAS THE FORCE WITHIN THEIR FAMILY. A LOT OF BROTHERS AND SISTERS, ALL OF WHOM ARE VERY POLITICAL, AND THEY DEBATE. THEY ARE ALL STRONG, WELL-EDUCATED PEOPLE WHO CAME FROM A LITTLE WHARE WITH A DIRT FLOOR. SO HE IS CONSERVATIVE MAORI AND HE HAS SOME VERY STRICT, ONE WOULD SAY, SCOTTISH VALUES, BUT HE'S GOT A HELL OF A SENSE OF HUMOUR. HE ENJOYS SOCIALISING. HE'S QUICK AND ACUTE, AND AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, YOU CAN INSULT HIM, AND YOU CAN CHALLENGE HIM, AND YOU CAN PUSH HIM. HE'S GOT A` HE'S GOT A HIDE LIKE A RHINO, BUT HE'S GOT A MEMORY LIKE AN ELEPHANT, AND HE REMEMBERS EVERYTHING. THE GREAT ADVANTAGE HE BRINGS TO THE POLITICAL SCENE IS DEEP INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE. SO WHAT IS IT LIKE? WHAT IS HE LIKE IN A NEGOTIATION GOING INTO THESE COALITION TALKS RIGHT NOW WITH CHRISTOPHER LUXON, BUT WITH ALL OF THIS HISTORY, AS YOU SAY, BEHIND HIM? MAY SURPRISE EVERYONE, BUT HE DOESN'T RUN THEM ALL ON HIS OWN. I RAN MY PATCH. WINSTON GAVE ME THE FLEXIBILITY AND THE ROOM TO MANOEUVRE. IF HE TRUSTS YOU WITH A PORTFOLIO, IT'S YOUR GIG. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WILL BE A CAP LEVEL. AND YOU` YOU'VE ALREADY DONE THAT WORK IN ESTABLISHING THE POLICY SETTINGS THROUGH` BEFORE THE ELECTION, AND EVERYBODY IN YOUR TEAM HAS CAMPAIGNED ON THAT POLICY. SO IF YOU'RE TRUE TO THE POLICY, IF YOU DON'T STRAY OUTSIDE OF THAT, IT'S YOUR GIG. AND BRINGING IN THE DIFFERENT PORTFOLIO HOLDERS OR THE SPOKESPEOPLE FOR PORTFOLIOS IS WHAT WE WHAT WE DID, AND WHAT I ANTICIPATE, IF IT GETS TO A POINT OF NEGOTIATING A FULL COALITION AGREEMENT, THAT'S WHAT'S LIKELY TO HAPPEN. SO, SHANE WILL HAVE A SAY, AND MARK PATTERSON WILL HAVE A SAY, AND JENNY WILL HAVE HER SAY, AND WINSTON WILL BE THE MODERATOR, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE NEGOTIATING PANEL. BUT I HAD TOTAL FREEDOM. AND THEN FROM THAT, I GOT THE TOTAL BACKING. SO WHAT DOES HE DEMAND IN A NEGOTIATION? GOOD` GOOD QUESTION, REBECCA. I MEAN, WHAT DOES HE DEMAND? RESPECT. HE WON'T SAY IT. THERE'S AN EXPECTATION. MANNERS, COURTESY. OLD FASHIONED STUFF, REALLY. BUT THEY ARE THE BASIC TENETS OF FORMING A GOOD RELATIONSHIP. AND IF YOU INTEND BEING ON GOVERNMENT` IN GOVERNMENT OR IN AN ARRANGEMENT WITH A PARTNER, BE IT BUSINESS OR BE IT THE CIVIL SERVICE, OR BE IT IWI RELATIONSHIPS, OR BE IT GOVERNMENT, RELATIONSHIPS UNDERPIN EVERYTHING. CONFIDENCE IN THE INDIVIDUAL WHO'S SITTING ACROSS THE TABLE FROM YOU RIGHT NOW, WATCHING THE BODY LANGUAGE, INTERPRETING WHAT THEY'RE NOT SAYING IS REALLY IMPORTANT. HAVING SOMEONE AT THE TABLE WHO'S OBSERVING ALL OF THAT. AND HE'S A MASTER AT THAT, ISN'T HE? OH... SOAKING UP A SITUATION? YOU CAN'T PULL THE WOOL. WELL, CHRISTOPHER LUXON HAS TALKED ABOUT FINDING CHEMISTRY IN HIS RELATIONSHIPS. SOUNDS A LITTLE ROMANTIC. A TAD ROMANTIC FOR A COMMERCIAL, CUTTHROAT CORPORATE PERSON. YOU KNOW, IT'S UNIQUE. HOW DO YOU FIND CHEMISTRY WITH WINSTON, I SUPPOSE? HONESTLY, IT'S EASY. LOOK.. IF YOU` HAVING ISSUES OR, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT ARE IN COMMON, AND, OF COURSE, YOU WOULDN'T BE IN NEW ZEALAND FIRST IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE A HELL OF A LOT OF THINGS IN COMMON WITH THE LEADER OF NEW ZEALAND FIRST ` THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A GIVEN. IF HE RESPECTS YOU FOR YOUR BACKGROUND AND WHAT YOU'VE DONE AND WHAT YOU'VE ACHIEVED, YOU'LL GET THAT AS A GIVEN, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK HE RESPECTS LUXON. MAY NOT AGREE WITH EVERYTHING, BUT HE RESPECTS HIS BACKGROUND AND RESPECTS WHAT HE'S ACHIEVED. ACHIEVEMENT IS EVERYTHING. WHAT YOU'VE DONE, NOT WHAT YOU SAY YOU'RE GOING TO DO. WHAT YOU'VE DONE. THAT GIVES CONFIDENCE TO WHAT YOU SAY YOU'RE GOING TO DO FROM HERE FORWARD. AND SO, THOSE THINGS WILL BE THINGS THAT HE'S ALREADY NOTED, AND SO WILL HIS TEAM. AND THERE'LL BE LOTS OF DISCUSSIONS WITH THE TEAM. YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S OVER A MEAL, OVER A BEER, POSTER NEGOTIATION AROUND WHAT THEY SAW, WHAT THEY FEEL, HOW DO THEY FEEL. AND SO CHRIS LUXON, HE'S DONE THIS STUFF. HE KNOWS THAT PETULANT COMMENTS ON THE SIDE-LINE ARE NOT GOING TO HELP YOUR NEGOTIATIONS FOR A MERGER. WHAT ARE THE LANDMINES FOR CHRISTOPHER LUXON THAT COULD BLOW THIS UP? THE ONES YOU LAY YOURSELF. THAT'S IT. IT'S WHEN YOU ALLOW YOURSELF` PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR CONFIDENCE ` CAN THEY WORK WITH YOU? AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S POLITICS OR WHETHER IT'S BUSINESS. AND CHRIS SHOULD` AND I'M ASSUMING CHRIS KNOWS THAT. HAVING CLEAR, CLEAR-EYED, CLEAR UNDERSTANDING IS WHERE YOUR LIMITS ARE, BUT WHERE YOU'RE PREPARED TO LISTEN AND BE FLEXIBLE` TO BE SITTING ACROSS THE COALITION NEGOTIATION TABLE FROM SOMEONE ` I'M GOING TO MOVE, AND I HOPE THE CAMERA KEEPS WITH ME ` WHO SITS LIKE THAT AND TALKS TO YOU OVER THEIR SHOULDER SAYS A HELL OF A LOT. THE SAME PERSON SAYING, 'WELL, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT? 'WHY?' THAT SENDS A MESSAGE. DON'T BE SURPRISED WHEN ALL FOUR PEOPLE AT THE TABLE GET UP AND WALK OUT OF THE ROOM, LOOK AT EACH OTHER AND THINK, 'PSH, WELL, THAT'S A WASTE OF TIME, ISN'T IT?' LANDMINES, YOU LAY YOURSELF. WALK IN WITH AN OPEN MIND AND BE HONEST AND CLEAR ABOUT THAT. IF YOU'VE GOT NO-GO AREAS IN PARTICULAR POLICY` AND UNDERSTAND THIS, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THERE WAS 67 PORTFOLIOS. 67. PEOPLE DON'T CONTEMPLATE THAT. THEY DON'T THINK ABOUT THAT. WE HAD 980 POLICIES THAT WE'D EITHER PUT OUT PRESS STATEMENTS ON, TAKING POSITIONS ON WHEN LEGISLATION WENT THROUGH THE HOUSE, OR HAD ADVANCED OURSELVES. THAT'S WHAT WAS ON THE TABLE. MM. WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE LUXON WILL DO A DEAL WITH NEW ZEALAND FIRST ALMOST NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE HE DOES NEED THAT INSURANCE POLICY. JUST HAVING 61, BEING ABLE TO MEET THAT 61 MP THRESHOLD, THERE'S ALWAYS SOMEBODY THAT FLAMES OUT DURING A PARLIAMENTARY TERM. BUT IS IT INEVITABLE THAT WINSTON WILL GO DOWN THAT ROAD, OR IS THERE BENEFIT TO THE PARTY TOO IN BEING IN OPPOSITION? WELL, I TRIED TO SAY THAT TO ONE MEDIA COMMENTATOR, TO SOMEONE AT ONE STAGE, AND THEY SAID, 'OH, WELL, YOU KNOW, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO DO THAT? 'WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BE IN OPPOSITION?' YOU KNOW, THERE ARE` THERE'S A ROLE AND A PURPOSE FOR PARLIAMENT, AND THAT IS FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO GOVERN AND GOVERNMENT TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT, AND PEOPLE ` THE PEOPLE ` TO EXPRESS THEIR VIEWS, WHETHER THAT'S THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF THE GOVERNMENT OR THROUGH THE OPPOSITION. TO BE A GOOD DEMOCRACY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD, STRONG OPPOSITION. SOMEONE WHO TESTS AND CHALLENGES. THE GREAT THING ABOUT CROSSBENCHERS IS YOU CAN SUPPORT THE STUFF THAT YOU DO AGREE WITH, THEN YOU CAN VOTE AGAINST THE STUFF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH. THAT'S THE WONDERS OF HAVING A MIXED-MEMBER ELECTION. WE STILL DON'T HAVE AN MMP PARLIAMENT, BY THE WAY. PEOPLE DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT AND HENCE THE DEBATE RIGHT NOW. 'CAN HE FORM A GOVERNMENT?' LOOK AT OTHER PARLIAMENTS AND GO TO SOME OF THE SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES, AND THEY ADOPTED THE POSITION THAT MIKE MOORE ESPOUSED AND NEW ZEALAND FIRST ADOPTED, WHICH IS A CABINET OF TALENT. YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE IN A` IF WE WERE A NATION WHICH WOULD CONTEMPLATE AN ELECTED GOVERNMENT SAYING, 'WELL, OK, I LIKE THAT PERSON IN THE GREEN PARTY, 'AND I LIKE THAT PERSON TO COME IN AND DO THIS 'AND THAT PERSON IN LABOUR AND COME AND DO THAT.' IF WE WERE A COUNTRY THAT COULD DO THAT, WE MIGHT HAVE A` WE MIGHT HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT'S MORE REFLECTIVE OF THE DECISIONS THE VOTERS MADE IN THE MMP ELECTION. BUT WE DON'T. WE'RE STILL STUCK IN WESTMINSTER FIRST PAST THE POST GOVERNANCE MODEL. SO THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE IN BEING AN OPPOSITION, AND THAT IS YOU CAN BE` YOU CAN PLAY A MAJOR ROLE FOR THE NATION AS BEING` AND I'D HAVE TO SAY, GIVEN THE WAY LABOUR'S BEEN DECIMATED, WHO'S GOING TO BE THE OPPOSITION? WHO'S GOING TO BE IN A POSITION WITH CREDIBILITY? AND HE ALSO DOES WELL AT THE ADVERSARIAL SORT OF STUFF, DOESN'T HE, WINSTON? YEAH, HE LOVES THAT. WITH HUMOUR. WITH HUMOUR. DO YOU THINK HE WOULD WANT TO BE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AGAIN? WINSTON` YEAH, DESPITE ALL` EVERYTHING THAT'S WRITTEN, I'VE NEVER, EVER, EVER HEARD WINSTON SAY 'I WANT TO BE PRIME MINISTER.' THE CAUCUS IS WHERE YOU'VE GOT TO BE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER. BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE AT THE CABINET TABLE, WHEN THE BUDGET ROUND IS BEING DONE AND YOU'VE GOT 4 OR 5 BUDGET MINISTERS HEADED UP BY MINISTER OF FINANCE, WHO DO YOU THINK CONTROLS, YOU KNOW, MINISTER OF FINANCE? WELL, YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE SOME CLOUT. IF YOU'RE IN A FORMAL COALITION, YOU'D BE` IT'D BE A LITTLE BIT STRANGE FOR YOU AS... AS THE PARTY WHO THE GOVERNMENT NEEDED, NOT TO TAKE THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, AND HENCE WHY NEW ZEALAND FIRST HAS ALWAYS, IN THE PAST, BEEN KEEN TO SECURE SOME SORT OF MINISTER FINANCE ROLE SOMEWHERE, BECAUSE MINISTER OF FINANCE, YOU KNOW, PLAYS A BIG PART IN DETERMINING THE BUDGET. AND YOUR COALITION AGREEMENT, IF YOU'RE IN THAT ARRANGEMENT, IF YOU'RE IN A COALITION ARRANGEMENT, HAS TO BE RESOURCED. THERE IS ALSO, IN THIS POTENTIAL ARRANGEMENT, THE ACT PARTY. YEP. WHAT IS IT BETWEEN WINSTON AND DAVID SEYMOUR? IT'LL BE WHATEVER DAVID WANTS IT TO BE. BUT WHAT'S THE HISTORY THERE? HMM. LOOK, A LOT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT WINSTON. YOU GO BACK IN HISTORY, A LOT WAS WRITTEN ABOUT JIM BOLGER AND WINSTON. AND FOR GOOD` YOU COULD UNDERSTAND WHY, JIM BOLGER REMOVED WINSTON FROM CABINET, TOOK HIS PORTFOLIOS OFF OF HIM, THEN EXPELLED HIM FROM THE PARTY. A LOT OF REASONS WHY COMMENTATORS AND OBSERVERS WOULD WRITE WHAT THEY WROTE, BUT THEY PROBABLY WENT ONE STEP TOO FAR IN SAYING THAT HE WOULD NEVER DO A DEAL. HE'S A... FORGIVING PERSON. WHAT ABOUT SEYMOUR? I DON'T KNOW IF DAVID'S A FORGIVING PERSON. I HOPE HE IS. BUT, YOU KNOW, EITHER WAY, THERE'S BANTER ON THE ELECTION TRAIL, AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS. THERE'S BANTER IN THE HOUSE. WHAT PROBABLY NEVER GETS THE FOCUS, AND IT USED TO BE MORE OBVIOUS WHEN 3.2, THE BAR, WAS OPERATING THE WAY IT WAS AND ALL THE JOURNOS AND ALL THE MPs WOULD COME IN THERE AND SOMEONE WOULD BE SLAPPING SOMEONE ON THE BACK AND SAY, 'THAT WAS A BIT RUDE, WHAT YOU SAID ON THE OTHER SIDE.' 'YEAH, BUT YOU DESERVED IT.' IT WAS A CLASSIC` IT'S WHAT I LOVE ABOUT KIWI RUGBY AND NETBALL. WHAT HAPPENS ON THE COURT, WHAT HAPPENS ON THE FIELD, STAYS THERE. AND WHEN YOU GO INTO THE CLUBROOMS AFTERWARDS, YOU TOAST EACH OTHER AND HAVE A BEER AND HAVE A YARN ABOUT IT. AND PARLIAMENT IS LIKE THAT. AND SO YOU CAN SAY THESE THINGS, BUT THERE IS A LINE WHERE YOU PUT YOURSELF... YEAH, IN A SPOT THAT YOU MIGHT NOT` YOU MIGHT WANT TO RETHINK LATER ON AS YOU GET A LITTLE OLDER AND A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPERIENCED. FINALLY I HEARD THAT` WHAT IS THIS TIME LIKE AROUND PARLIAMENT? YOU KNOW, IT'S A BIG CHANGE, ISN'T IT, FOR EVERYBODY ON ALL SIDES? I RANG KIERAN MCANULTY YESTERDAY ` OR WE WERE PLAYING TELEPHONE TAG, AND WE FINALLY GOT TO TALK. AND I SAID TO HIM, 'LOOK, YOU KNOW, 'FOR THE SHORT WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY YOU HAD, YOU KNOW, 'I TAKE MY HAT OFF TO YOU. YOU DID A GOOD JOB.' BUT I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU LOSE. AND HAVING BEEN WIPED OUT IN TWO CAUCUSES THAT WERE COMPLETELY WIPED OUT TWICE MYSELF, I KNOW WHAT PEOPLE DON'T SEE IS THAT WHILST THE CAMERAS ARE FOCUSING ON THE BRIGHT EYED, BUSHY TAILED, YOU KNOW, NEW KIDS COMING TO SCHOOL SORT OF THING AND CATCHING THEM AT THE DOOR, THAT'S ONE STORY. THE OTHER STORY IS THOSE THAT ARE IN TEARS, THE MPs WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE UNTOUCHABLE. WHETHER THEY WERE SEDUCED BY THE GRANITE WALLS AND THE MARBLE FLOORS, AS I USED TO SAY TO MY MPs, 'DON'T YOU DARE. REMEMBER WHERE YOU CAME FROM, 'BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GOING BACK TO.' AND SOME PEOPLE LOSE SIGHT OF THAT. THEY FEEL IT A LOT. AND PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE A ONE-TERM MP NOW, YOU'RE GONE. YOU KNOW, IT'S HEARTBREAKING FOR SOME PEOPLE. IT'S SHOCK, IT'S TRAUMA. THE DIFFERENT STAGES OF GRIEF PLAY OUT. AND AS A WHIP, YOU'RE RUNNING AROUND, AND YOU MAY BE THE WHIP THAT'S JUST LOST YOUR SEAT TOO. SO YOU'RE TRYING TO HOLD IT TOGETHER WHILE YOU COUNSEL SOME OF YOUR TEAM WHO ARE IN DESPAIR. WHAT'S ALSO NOT SEEN IS THE STAFF, AND... (SIGHS) I'VE SEEN STAFF WORRIED ABOUT THEIR MORTGAGE PAYMENTS. I'VE SEEN STAFF WORRIED ABOUT THE HIRE PURCHASE ON THEIR CARS. I'VE SEEN STAFF WHO WISH, ON REFLECTION, MAYBE THEY HADN'T TEAMED UP WITH NEW ZEALAND FIRST. BUT PEOPLE TAKE A GAMBLE WITH A POLITICAL PARTY. YOU GET TARNISHED, YOUR NAME GETS ASSOCIATED. YOUR CV SAYS THAT. SO THERE ARE ALL THESE THINGS GOING THROUGH PEOPLE'S HEADS, AND THEY KNOW THEY'VE GOT TO RUSH OUT AND THEY'VE GOT TO FIND A NEW JOB. THEIR CONTRACTS HAVE ENDED ` BANG. THEY'RE GONE. MINISTERIAL STAFF THE SAME. THERE'S SOME PRETTY HEARTBREAKING, YOU KNOW, MOMENTS THAT I CAN REFLECT BACK ON WHERE YOU'VE HAD TO, YOU KNOW, STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING, STOP THINKING ABOUT YOURSELF. SIT DOWN AND HAVE A CUP OF TEA WITH THAT PERSON WHO'S REALLY STRESSING NOW. THEY DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO GET ANOTHER JOB BECAUSE THEY WERE WITH YOUR PARTY. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT JOB MIGHT BE, AND THEY'VE GOT BILLS TO PAY. AND THAT'S THE HARD SIDE OF IT, YOU KNOW. YEAH, IT'S A BIT TOUGH. AND THE MPs ARE THE SAME. THEN THEY GO HOME. THEN IT'S ALL OVER. RON MARK THERE ` FORMER NZ FIRST MP AND CURRENT MAYOR OF CARTERTON. OUR POLITICAL PANEL IS UP AHEAD, AND THERE'S PLENTY TO GET INTO THIS WEEK WITH A CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT. PLUS, WHAT'S HAPPENING OUT THERE IN THE DIGITAL SPHERE? A BUMPER ELECTION EDITION OF OUR DIGIPOWER RANKINGS. WELCOME BACK. WHEN IT COMES TO COALITION NEGOTIATIONS, INCOMING PRIME MINISTER CHRISTOPHER LUXON HAS MADE IT CLEAR ` HE'S DOING IT HIS WAY. AND BY THAT, HE MEANS STAYING TIGHT LIPPED AND DOING THE DEAL AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC GLARE. INEVITABLY THAT APPROACH LED TO SOME TENSION WITH THE MEDIA THIS WEEK. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) I JUST CAN'T COME OUT HERE EVERY DAY AND GIVE YOU A BLOW BY BLOW OF WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING WITH EACH OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS. BECAUSE THAT'S NOT PARTICULARLY HELPFUL FOR US. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE NEGOTIATING THAT THROUGH THE MEDIA. AND I APPRECIATE THERE'LL BE LOTS OF RECKONS. THERE'LL BE LOTS OF PEOPLE INTERVIEWING TYPEWRITERS. THERE'LL BE LOTS OF PEOPLE WITH COMMENT. PETERS, WELCOME BACK. HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO CHRISTOPHER LUXON YET? I WAS UNIMPRESSED AT HOW WE'VE DONE A SERIES OF NEGOTIATIONS IN MMP OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. IT'S MORE IMPORTANT I'M FOCUSED ON GOING FORWARD. I'M GOING TO DO IT MY WAY. ANY MORE NEGOTIABLES? THIS IS MUCH NEGOTIATING ABOUT NEGOTIATING, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GET THERE. I'M REALLY SORRY, BUT I'M JUST NOT GOING TO BE DISCUSSING IT. MR PETERS, HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO CHRISTOPHER LUXON YET? WHAT I'M DOING VERY CLEARLY IS SAYING TO YOU, LOOK, WE ARE GOING TO USE THE THREE WEEKS TO PROGRESS THE RELATIONSHIP AND THE ARRANGEMENTS WITH THOSE PARTIES. THE INCOMING PRIME MINISTER LAMENTING REPORTERS INTERVIEWING THEIR TYPEWRITERS, BUT WE COULDN'T FIND ONE OF THOSE. WE HAVE A PANEL THAT CAN SPEAK FREELY ABOUT NEGOTIATIONS. JOINING ME IS FORMER UNITED FUTURE LEADER PETER DUNNE, BUSINESS DESK SENIOR CORRESPONDENT DILEEPA FONSEKA AND ANNABELLE LEE-MATHER FROM RADIO NEW ZEALAND'S MATA. WELCOME. A BIG WEEK, YOU HAD A SCOOP THIS WEEK ABOUT WINSTON PETERS AND CHRISTOPHER LUXON HAVING PICKED UP THE PHONE. THIS IS HOW LITTLE HAS LEAKED OUT. BUT BY THE END OF THE WEEK, WE FOUND OUT THEY HAVE AT LEAST SPOKEN TO EACH OTHER TWICE. THIS IS ALL RELATIONSHIP BUILDING STUFF. WE ARE A LONG WAY AWAY FROM IT NEGOTIATIONS, AND IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYTHING IS BASICALLY HINGING ON THIS NOVEMBER 3 COUNT OF THE SPECIAL VOTES. THE THINKING SEEMS TO BE THAT IT COULD ALTER POSITIONS. WHAT GETS OFFERED WILL DEPEND ON THAT OUTCOME. AT THE MOMENT, WE HAVE A DYNAMIC THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE. NATIONAL AND ACT CAN KIND OF FORM A GOVERNMENT, BUT THEY MAY NEED WINSTON PETERS. IF THEY DON'T, THAT'LL BE A DIFFERENT NEGOTIATING DYNAMIC THAN WE HAVE HAD IN THE PAST WITH NEW ZEALAND FIRST. IF THEY WANT MINISTERIAL PORTFOLIOS, GET SOME PROJECTS OF THE GROUND, THEY BASICALLY HAVE ONLY ONE NEGOTIATING OPTION. SO THEY CAN'T, AS IN 2017, PLAY OFF LABOUR AND NATIONAL AGAINST EACH OTHER. I AM HEARING THAT CHRISTOPHER LUXON WANTS TO DO A DEAL WITH NZ FIRST, IN ONE WAY TO BE ABLE TO, IF SOMEONE FLAMES OUT, TO BE ABLE TO LET THEM GO, HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONTROL HIS OWN CAUCUS. MAYBE THAT IS THE CASE FOR THE OTHER PARTIES TOO. IT IS IMPORTANT TO RETAIN FLEXIBILITY IN A GOVERNMENT. I THINK HE IS GOING ABOUT IT THE RIGHT WAY, BUT FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW AS AN INCOMING PRIME MINISTER, HE HAS TO BE THE ONE CONTROLLING EVENTS. THIS IS HIS BIG TEST. HE HAS THIS APPROACH THAT HE WON'T TALK TO THE MEDIA, THAT HE WILL DO IT IN HIS OWN WAY AND HIS OWN TIME, THAT IS THE CORRECT PERSPECTIVE FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW. HE DOESN'T WANT THE NARRATIVE ABOUT WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING. BUT ABOUT WHAT HE IS DOING TO BUILD A GOVERNMENT. DAVID SEYMOUR THIS WEEK, WE HAVE HAD A BIT ABOUT HIM PUSHING FOR THE REFERENDUM ON THE TREATY PRINCIPLES. CHRISTOPHER LUXON SAID THAT IS ACT'S POLICY. POLLING SHOWS NEW ZEALANDERS AREN'T PARTICULARLY INTERESTED. I THINK NEW ZEALANDERS MAY NOT BE INTERESTED, BUT ACT AND ITS DONORS ARE. I THINK THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE THAT SEYMOUR WILL BE WILLING TO GIVE AWAY QUICKLY. PEOPLE HAVE INVESTED IN HIM AND HIS CAMPAIGN. THERE IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUES. I THINK IT IS PROBABLY PART OF A WIDER AGENDA TO ERODE MAORI RIGHTS WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES AND RESOURCES LIKE WATER. THIS IS A FIRST STEP IN THAT. HIS SUPPORTERS AND DONORS WILL WANT TO BANG FOR THEIR BUCK. HE WILL BE NEGOTIATING HARD OVER THIS, I IMAGINE. HE HAS A MANDATE FOR THAT. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SEA CHANGE IN CHRISTOPHER LUXON THIS WEEK. HE IS STEPPING INTO BEING A PRIME MINISTER NOW, FROM BEING A CEO, AND DEALING WITH THE DAILY SCRUTINY, REPORTERS EVERY DAY ASKING QUESTIONS, IT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM BEING ABLE TO PUT OUT YOUR VIDEO STATEMENTS, WHICH I KNOW CEOS ARE VERY KEEN ON. IF WE THINK OF THE COALITION NEGOTIATIONS, LUXON MADE REFERENCE TO MERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS, THE BEST CORPORATE NEGOTIATIONS WILL TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO GO FOR IS ENLARGING THE PIE, A SOLUTION THAT MAKES EVERYONE BETTER OFF. WHEREAS IN THESE COALITION NEGOTIATIONS, WHAT WE SEE IS A LOT OF HORSE TRADING. WE WANT X POLICIES, HOW MANY DO WE GET, HOW ANY MINISTRIES. I THINK HE IS TRYING TO APPROACH THINGS THAT WAY. BUT IT IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE PUBLIC OF NEW ZEALAND, EVEN YOUR PARTY MEMBERS, THEY ARE NOT YOUR... AND THE MEDIA, AND THE PUBLIC WHO FIND OUT ABOUT THINGS THROUGH THEM, THEY ARE MORE LIKE YOUR SHAREHOLDERS THEN JUST MEDIA OFF TO THE SIDE REPORTING THINGS IN AN INDUSTRY CONTEXT FOR SOME PEOPLE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT INVEST IN A COMPANY, MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAPPEN FOR A COMPANY. PEOPLE FROM THE BUSINESS SECTOR WHO GO INTO POLITICS OFTEN SAY, THERE IS NOTHING QUITE LIKE IT, BECAUSE THEY ARE DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTS. YOU HAVE MORE SCRUTINY, YOU DON'T HAVE MEDIA, THINGS THAT AREN'T A BIG DEAL AS A CEO AND ARE BIG AS A LEADER FOR A COUNTRY. WHAT SORT OF PRIME MINISTER... IT IS CLEAR THAT CHRISTOPHER LUXON WILL BE A DIFFERENT PRIME MINISTER. WHAT KIND OF PRIME MINISTER THAT DO YOU THINK HE WILL BE? I SAW SIGNS OF THAT IN THE LEADERSHIP DEBATES. VERY COOL, CALM, COLLECTED. IT'S NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE THAT EASY. I THINK HE WILL TRY TO MAINTAIN THAT PERSONA. HE WILL TRY TO MAKE SURE THOSE COMPONENTS OF A GOVERNMENT, ACT, NEW ZEALAND FIRST, HOWEVER THEY ARE REQUIRED, ARE DANCING TO THE SAME TUNE. WHETHER HE CAN ACHIEVE THAT IS SEPARATE, BUT THAT IS THE TONE HE WILL WANT TO PORTRAY. GETTING THE COUNTRY BACK ON TRACK, BY IMPLICATION, THE LAST GOVERNMENT WAS OFF TRACK. OFF THE RESERVATION. HE WANTS TO BE COOL, CALM, COLLECTED. THE CHALLENGE IS TURNING THAT PERCEPTION INTO A REALITY. ONCE HE SETTLES IN, ONCE THE GOVERNMENT STARTS TO TAKE STOCK OF ITS DUTIES, ONCE THE FIRST CRISIS COMES ALONG, THOSE WILL BE THE TEST MOMENTS. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT LABOUR. WE HEARD FROM CARMEL SEPULONI ABOUT A LABOUR'S UNITY. IT IS AN EASY WORD TO SAY IN MOMENTS LIKE THIS, BUT HARD TO ACHIEVE IN A DECIMATED CAUCUS. I THINK THEY HAVE SHOWN DISCIPLINED BY NOT CRITICISING THE TEAM THAT RAN THEIR CAMPAIGN, WHO DID A POOR JOB... IN THE RESULTS. I WAS INTERESTED TO SEE CARMEL SEPULONI RULING HERSELF IN AS POTENTIAL LEADER. THERE WILL BE A PERIOD OF CALM OVER THE NEXT MONTHS. IF HIPKINS MOVES ON, THAT IS WHEN WE WILL SEE THE TENSIONS RISE AS THE VARIOUS PEOPLE PUT THEMSELVES FORWARD. DID SHE TALK ABOUT THIS BEING DONE BY CHRISTMAS? I THOUGHT THAT WAS A TELLING INSIGHT. I THINK THAT IS A TECHNICALITY ABOUT NEEDING A VOTE AFTER A LOSS. IT WILL TAKE TIME, BUT RUSHING IT BEFORE CHRISTMAS IS A RECIPE FOR SHORT-TERM DISASTER, WHATEVER THE OUTCOME. NATIONAL IN 2017, CHARTED THE PATH FORWARD TO WHAT AN OPPOSITION SHOULD DO. NATIONAL, IN RETROSPECT, DID THE RIGHT THINGS AT THAT TIME TO SET THEMSELVES UP AS A GOOD OPPOSITION. THEY MOVED TO HAVE BRIDGES AS LEADER, AND HE KEPT HAMMERING THEM ON ISSUES, DELIVERABILITY, THOSE THINGS KEPT GOING. THERE WERE VARIOUS SCANDALS, AND COVID-19 CAME IN. BUT NOW WITH THIS RESULT, WE GO TO THAT TIME THEY GOT TO PRE-COVID-19. AND THAT MIGHT BE THE PATH FORWARD FOR THEM. WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK TO YOU LATER. IT'S TIME NOW TO GET OUR NEXT PART, WHICH IS A FRENETIC WEEK AT PARLIAMENT FOR SOME OF OUR NEWEST MPs, AND WHO WON THE ELECTION BATTLE ONLINE? IT'S DIGIPOWER TIME. WELL, THE DUST HAS ALMOST SETTLED ON ELECTION 2023, AND WE WILL HAVE A NEW GOVERNMENT SOONISH, BUT WHAT ROLE DID THE ONLINE STRATEGY OF EACH PARTY PLAY IN THE RESULT? HERE TO PERFORM AN ONLINE ELECTION AUTOPSY IS DIGITAL EDITOR FINN HOGAN. FINN, MORENA. WHAT CAN YOU TELL US? MORENA, SIMON. AS YOU SAY, WE HAVE ALMOST MADE IT THROUGH THIS CYCLE. BUT IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE LEAD UP AND THE PERIOD AFTER. IF WE LOOK AT OUR TOP 10, WE'RE LOOKING AT LUXON, SEYMOUR, PETERS REALLY CONSISTENTLY HOLDING ON TO THOSE TOP THREE SPOTS ONLINE. THIS WAS A FAIRLY GOOD METRIC FOR HOW THE ELECTION SHOOK OUT. IF WE ZOOM IN ON THE NUMBERS, LUXON HAD A MASSIVE LEAD IN VIDEO VIEWS IN PARTICULAR. HE ALSO HAD A LEAD IN INTERACTION RATE ` HOW LIKELY HIS CONTENT WAS TO BE CLICKED ON. THAT BECAME A THEME FOR NATIONAL OVERALL. LOOKING AT THE PARTIES, WHAT WAS NATIONAL'S EDGE? AGAIN, IT COMES DOWN TO VIDEO VIEWS. THEY WERE AHEAD ON EVERY METRIC, BUT VIDEO VIEWS IN PARTICULAR. THEY HAD ABOUT 1.6 MILLION VIEWS, WELL OVER FIVE TIMES LABOUR'S TOTAL. THAT IS A SMART PLAY BY THEM, BECAUSE EVERY SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORM IS PIVOTING HARD INTO SHORT FORM VIDEO, RESPONDING TO THE RISE OF TIKTOK, WHICH IS THE DOMINANT PLATFORM. SO NATIONAL DOMINANT THERE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MINORS? WHERE WERE THEY IN ALL OF THIS? WE HAD A STEEP DROP OFF. NEW ZEALAND FIRST, FOR EXAMPLE, WERE BARELY REGISTERING, AND IT SHOWS THEY WERE PIVOTING TOWARDS WINSTON PETERS AS A BRAND ABOVE THE ACTUAL PARTY PAGE ITSELF. THE GREENS HAD A FAIRLY DISAPPOINTING SHOWING ` DISAPPOINTING FOR THEM CONSIDERING THEY ARE MORE YOUTH FOCUSED. ACT LAGGED BEHIND THEM IN OVERALL ENGAGEMENT, WHICH IS SURPRISING CONSIDERING THE MONEY THEY SPENT. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE MONEY. WHERE WAS IT BEING SPENT? AND WHAT DO THEY GET FOR IT? WE SAW $2 MILLION BETWEEN GOOGLE AND META BEING SPENT. NEARLY HALF OF THAT CAME FROM THE ACT PARTY. LABOUR SPENT MORE THAN NATIONAL OVERALL BY A HAIR, BUT NATIONAL BEATS THEM BOTH IN OVERALL ENGAGEMENT JUST THROUGH MORE CLEVERLY TARGETED AND CRAFTED CONTENT. TO BE FAIR, THERE IS AN EDGE FOR OPPOSITION ONLINE, BECAUSE EXPLAINING DENSE POLICY ON SOCIAL MEDIA IS HARD. ATTACKING ON SOCIAL MEDIA IS VERY EASY. MUCH EASIER. IS THIS WHAT WE WILL DEAL WITH IN THE FUTURE, IN TERMS OF ELECTION CYCLES AND CAMPAIGNS? MOVING FORWARD, TIKTOK IS GOING TO BE A BIGGER PART OF EVERY STRATEGY, UNLESS IT IS BANNED, WHICH IS A LIVE CONCERN. THERE ARE SECURITY CONCERNS. IT IS BANNED ON PARLIAMENTARY DEVICES. BUT IT CLEARLY HAS SO MUCH UTILITY. IT IS HARD TO VERIFY INDEPENDENTLY NUMBERS ON TIKTOK, BUT NATIONAL'S TEAM CLAIMS 17 MILLION VIEWS ON TIKTOK... THAT SOUNDS MASSIVE. ...WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY ENORMOUS. I CHECKED WITH SOME THIRD-PARTY SOFTWARE, AND IT ROUGHLY TRACKS. THAT MEANS TIKTOK IS FAR AND AWAY THE MOST DOMINANT PLATFORM, FAR OUTSTRIPPING FACEBOOK. TECHNOLOGY IS MOVING ON QUICKLY, SO ARE WE LOOKING AT TIKTOK ELECTIONS? WHAT ROLE WILL TECH` WHAT WILL IT LOOK LIKE IN THE NEXT CAMPAIGN? AS WE MOVE THROUGH THE NEXT THREE YEARS, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WILL INCREASINGLY BE A LIVE CONCERN. GENERATIVE A.I. ARE TOOLS THAT CAN CREATE VIDEO, TEXT, AND IMAGES, AND IS ACCELERATING SO QUICKLY, WE WILL SOON BE ABLE TO CREATE HYPER-TARGETED, HYPER-BESPOKE CONTENT AT A FRACTION OF THE TIME AND MONEY. SO IT IS INEVITABLE THAT THESE TOOLS WILL BE USED MORE. NATIONAL DIPPED ITS TOE INTO THIS WATER, AND GOT BACKLASH AROUND IMAGE GENERATION, WHICH MAY HAVE GIVEN PEOPLE COLD FEET. BUT BY 2026, THESE TOOLS WILL BE USED. IT WILL ASK SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT ROLE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SHOULD PLAY IN OUR DEMOCRACY. YES, AND OBVIOUSLY, LABOUR RULED OUT USING IT AS A RESULT OF WHAT YOU MENTIONED ABOUT NATIONAL. WE CAN'T LET YOU GO UNTIL WE DO A FINAL HONOURABLE MENTION. AND THIS IS A FINAL HONOURABLE MENTION FOR THIS TERM. WHAT DO YOU GOT? I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO FINISH BY SHOUTING OUT THE MPs WHO ARE LOSING THEIR SEATS AND JOBS, WHO ANNOUNCED THEIR RETIREMENT AND LOOK TO HEAD TO THE DOOR. ELECTIONS ARE TOUGH ON THE MPs THEMSELVES, AND ON FAMILIES, BUT THEY'RE ALSO TOUGH ON STAFF. IT WAS GOOD TO SEE LABOUR MPs IN THEIR FAREWELL POSTS SHOUTING OUT THOSE STAFF WHO RARELY GET RECOGNISED IN PUBLIC BUT ARE BEING SHOWN THE DOOR TO. MY VERY FINAL SHOUT OUT WOULD GO TO ANDREW LITTLE, PROBABLY THE MOST HIGH PROFILE MP WHO ANNOUNCED HIS RETIREMENT. THE MAN WHO FAMOUSLY REBRANDED HIS SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS 'DADDY THICC SNACC LITTLE' ON A SOCIAL MEDIA STUNT. HE WAS THAT GUY, THE KIND OF POLITICIAN WHO WALKED A FINE LINE BETWEEN BEING SERIOUS AND ACHIEVING A LOT IN HIS TENURE, BUT WHO KNEW HOW TO HAVE FUN ON SOCIAL MEDIA. MY JOB WILL BE A BIT MORE BORING WITHOUT HIM. YOU NEVER KNOW WHO IS COMING IN. THEY COULD PROVIDE PLENTY OF CONTENT FOR YOU, FINN. FINN HOGAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. E WHAI AKE NEI ` COMING UP ` THE FRESH FACES OF PARLIAMENT, AND OUR PANEL'S TAKE ON WHAT TO WATCH IN THE COMING WEEKS. STAY WITH US. EVERY ELECTION HAS A WINNER, BUT NATIONAL HAS MORE THAN 20 OF THEM. A FLOOD OF NEW BLUE MPs STREAMED INTO PARLIAMENT THIS WEEK. SENIOR REPORTER LAURA WALTERS CAUGHT UP WITH A FEW ONCE THEY'D FOUND THE FRONT DOOR. HI, EVERYONE. KIA ORA TATOU. I'M SUZE REDMAYNE, PROUD TO BE NATIONAL'S MP ELECT FOR RANGITIKEI. (APPLAUSE) WHAT ARE WE ` DAY THREE? HOW'S IT FEELING? FANTASTIC. IT'S REALLY EXCITING TO BE HERE, AND I'M REALLY ENJOYING IT. BUT THERE'S A WHOLE LOT TO LEARN. UNBELIEVABLE. THIS IS A HARD PLACE TO NAVIGATE. YOU SAID YOU'VE GOTTEN LOST. WHAT DID YOU DO? WELL, I SORT OF SEMI GOT LOST ON MY FIRST DAY TRYING TO FIND THE CAR PARK. AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY, I'VE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF TROUBLE WANDERING AROUND THE BASEMENT, TRYING TO WORK OUT HOW TO GET BACK UP AGAIN. (CHUCKLES) DO YOU KNOW WHICH WAY TO THE HOUSE? YEAH, I KNOW THAT. I KNOW THIS PART. I KNOW THE TOP PART. THAT'S EASY. YEAH. IT'S UNDERNEATH. CAN YOU POINT US IN THE DIRECTION OF THE HOUSE? YEAH, YEAH. NICE WORK. (CHUCKLES) PASSED THE FIRST TEST. YOUR STYLE OF POLITICS, IN ONE WORD, WHAT WOULD THAT BE? I THINK I'M RELAXED, APPROACHABLE. I THINK THE TECHNICAL TERM FOR IT'S A RETAIL POLITICIAN. HI, I'M BLAIR CAMERON, THE MP ELECT FOR NELSON. DESCRIBE TO ME WHAT IT FELT LIKE WHEN YOU FIRST WALKED INSIDE. IT IS A VERY SPECIAL PLACE, RIGHT? AND IT IS AN ABSOLUTE PRIVILEGE TO BE HERE. AND THERE IS THE WEIGHT OF THAT. OBVIOUSLY YOU BROUGHT CLOTHES AND TOILETRIES, COMPUTER, ALL OF THAT. BUT WHAT ELSE? WHAT'S SPECIAL THAT BRINGS HOME WITH YOU HERE? LOOK, HONESTLY, I'VE JUST GOT A SUITCASE STUFFED FULL OF THINGS THAT I THREW INTO THE BAG ON SUNDAY TO GET UP HERE FIRST THING MONDAY MORNING. PART OF MY STORY IS I CAME FROM A PRETTY SMALL, RURAL TOWN, A REALLY HUMBLE BACKGROUND. AND THEN I GOT A SCHOLARSHIP TO GO AND STUDY OVERSEAS. WHEN I LEFT, ALL MY FRIENDS GOT A NEW ZEALAND FLAG. THEY ALL SIGNED IT WITH THEIR BEST WISHES. AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I STILL TAKE WITH ME. HI, EVERYONE. I'M CARLOS CHUNG, MP ELECT FOR MT ROSKILL FOR NATIONAL PARTY. WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU WHEN YOU WALKED INTO THE PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS FOR THE FIRST TIME? IT'S A VERY SPECIAL MOMENT. DID YOU PAUSE, TAKE IT ALL IN? I THINK I JUST WALKED STRAIGHT IN. DIDN'T THINK TOO MUCH. HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO FAMILY, CLOSE FRIENDS, SINCE YOU'VE BEEN HERE? YES, I'VE BEEN TALKING TO MY WIFE AND MY DAUGHTER EVERY` BASICALLY, EVERY SINGLE DAY. YOU'VE GOT A DAUGHTER? YES. HOW OLD? FOUR AND A HALF. FOUR AND A HALF. THAT MUST BE HARD. IT IS. SHE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE JUST LIKE, 'OH, YEAH, DADDY WILL BE WORKING FOR A WHOLE DAY, 'AND THEN AT LEAST HE WILL COME BACK HOME AT NIGHT-TIME.' BUT, SO, THE FIRST NIGHT WILL BE A LITTLE BIT TOUGH ON HER. WHAT IS THE BEST PIECE OF ADVICE YOU'VE GOTTEN SO FAR? I GUESS IT'S SERVE WITH YOUR HEART. KIA ORA, MY NAME IS JAMES MEAGER. I AM THE MP ELECT FOR RANGITATA FOR THE NATIONAL PARTY. YOU'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE? YES. I WAS A PRESS SECRETARY IN THE PAST. WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE? IT'S INTERESTING. THERE'S ACTUALLY A LOT TO LEARN. SO, I WORKED HERE FOR ABOUT FOUR YEARS. AND YOU DON'T WANT TO SOUND LIKE A KNOW-IT-ALL, SO YOU SIT HERE, AND YOU LISTEN AND LEARN. BUT, YEAH, IT'S A LOT TO TAKE IN, AND IT CAN BE QUITE OVERWHELMING, BUT IT'S BRILLIANT TO BE BACK. HAVE YOU FOUND YOUR WAY TO THE PRESS GALLERY YET? I'VE PROBABLY BEEN SEEN AS A BIT OF A STALKER. YEAH, I'VE BEEN DOWN AND VISITED A FEW OF MY FORMER COLLEAGUES. IS IT SCARY BEING IN FRONT OF THE CAMERAS? YEP, YEP. I DON'T THINK ANYONE SHOULD EVER PROBABLY GET USED TO IT. HOW IMPORTANT IS HONESTY FOR YOU IN THIS JOB? I THINK IT'S FUNDAMENTAL BECAUSE IT GOES TO BUILDING TRUST AND CONFIDENCE. AND FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO WANTS TO BE A VERY GOOD ELECTORATE MP, I HAVE TO HAVE THE FAITH OF ALL OF MY CONSTITUENTS, WHETHER THEY VOTE FOR YOU OR NOT. KIA ORA TATOU KATOA. KO ANGEE TOKU INGOA. HELLO, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS ANGEE. I AM THE MP ELECT FOR TE ATATU. IF IT DOESN'T GO YOUR WAY IN THE SPECIAL VOTES, AND YOU'RE ONLY HERE FOR A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE, LEARN, EXPERIENCE WHILE YOU'RE HERE? I GUESS IT'S JUST REALLY JUST LEARNING THE ROPES OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN MP. THE EXPERIENCE ITSELF IS EXTRAORDINARY, AND NOT MANY PEOPLE CAN SAY THAT THEY'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS, SO I'M REALLY JUST TRYING TO SOAK IT IN. IF YOU COULD DESCRIBE WHAT TYPE OF POLITICIAN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN ONE WORD, WHAT WOULD THAT BE? OH, THAT'S A TRICKY ONE. UM... I HOPE I'D BE... I'D HOPE I'D STAY THE SAME. DO YOU THINK THIS PLACE CORRUPTS PEOPLE? I DON'T KNOW, I THINK MOVING INTO THIS SPACE, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN WHO YOU ARE. THAT'S PROBABLY AS MUCH AS I CAN SAY, BEING AN MP ELECT. BUT FOR MOST OF US COMING INTO THIS, WE'RE JUST FRESH EYES, YOU KNOW, READY TO LEARN THE ROPES OF IT. HI, I'M KATIE NIMON FROM THE NATIONAL PARTY. I'M THE MP ELECT FOR NAPIER. IF YOU COULD SUM UP WHAT TYPE OF POLITICIAN YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN ONE WORD, WHAT WOULD THAT BE? CONNECTED. THAT WAS EASY. YEAH. (LAUGHS) THERE'S A LOT OF HISTORY IN THIS BUILDING. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT HAS JUMPED OUT AT YOU YET OR HAS REALLY MEANT SOMETHING TO YOU? YEAH, DO YOU KNOW WHAT? LAST NIGHT WE WERE HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF A WELCOME IN THE LLC CHAMBERS, AND I WENT TO THE BATHROOM, FUNNILY ENOUGH, AND SAW A COUPLE OF MY GREAT GRANDFATHERS ON THE WALL. SO, THEY'VE BEEN MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL BEFORE. THERE IS SO MUCH HISTORY HERE, AND I'M FORTUNATE TO HAVE HAD MY FAMILY BE PART OF THAT, ON BOTH MY MUM'S SIDE AND MY DAD'S SIDE. DOES THAT WEIGH ON YOU? YEAH, A LITTLE BIT. IT DOES. I MEAN, YOU THINK FIVE GENERATIONS THAT I'VE BEEN A PART OF, AND SO I TAKE THAT WEIGHT REALLY SERIOUSLY IN MUCH THE SAME WAY THAT I TAKE THIS WEIGHT REALLY SERIOUSLY. MORE THAN ANY OTHER SERIOUS RESPONSIBILITY, IT'S EXCITING. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT EXCITEMENT THERE WITH KATIE NIMON. RETURNING NOW TO OUR PANEL, PETER DUNNE, DILEEPA FONSEKA AND ANNABELLE LEE-MATHER. AND LET'S DIVE WHAT EVERYONE IN PARLIAMENT IS WAITING FOR, WHICH IS THE SPECIAL VOTES. IS IT ACCEPTABLE THAT IT IS TAKING THREE WEEKS, PETER? IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT, NO. WITH TECHNOLOGY, IT SHOULD BE QUICKER TO PROCESS THESE RESULTS. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN AMERICA AFTER THE LAST ELECTION. WE ARE IN DANGER OF REPEATING THE SAME TREND. WE NEED TO SPEED THE PROCESS UP. VOTES NEED TO BE TRANSMITTED BACK TO THE ELECTORATE, COUNTED MUCH MORE QUICKLY, AND THOSE RESULTS DECLARED WITHIN DAYS. IT IS EXTRAORDINARY WE CAN COUNT SO MANY VOTES IN ONE NIGHT, AND IT TAKES THREE WEEKS FOR THE 570,000 OTHERS. TE PATI MAORI WILL BE LOOKING AT AND ANTICIPATING THOSE RESULTS. THEY WILL BE. CAN I JUST SAY, I AM FINE TO HAVE A CUP OF TEA AND A LIE DOWN AND WAIT FOR THREE WEEKS. TAKE YOUR TIME. COUNT ONCE, COUNT PROPERLY, FINE. TE PATI MAORI DOES WELL ON THE SPECIALS. AND THERE ARE TWO SEATS ON A KNIFE EDGE ` TAMAKI AND TE TAI TOKERAU. THERE IS ABOUT A 500 MAJORITY AT THE MOMENT, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE. IT IS NOT BEYOND THE REALMS OF POSSIBILITY THAT THEY COULD FLIP TO TE PATI MAORI. TO MARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI AND TAKUTAI TARSH KEMP IN TAMAKI. HELEN WHITE WAS ALSO A STANDOUT, PERHAPS FOR THE WRONG REASONS THIS WEEK, DILEEPA. SHE SAID... THAT MT ALBERT, A LABOUR SAFE SEAT, SHE SAID SHE GOT A GOOD RESULT THERE WITH A 106-VOTE MARGIN. IT WAS THE GREATEST MAJORITY IN THAT SEAT LABOUR HAD LAST TIME. SHE SAID THAT IS A GREAT RESULT. YEAH, WELL, CLEARLY THAT IS NOT THE CASE. I THINK THEY MAY HAVE ALSO... THEY USUALLY DO WELL IN THE PARTY VOTES IN THAT ELECTORATE. SO THERE'S.. I THINK THAT EVERYONE HAS BEEN STUNNED, INCLUDING THE NATIONAL PARTY ITSELF IN THE NUMBER OF ELECTORATES THEY WON LIKE THAT THAT WERE SAFE LABOUR SEATS. THE SWING BACK, AND YOU SEE A LOT OF CANDIDATES WHO ARE COMING, AND THEY'VE GOT LESS CANDIDATES COMING IN ON THE LIST NOW. AND CANDIDATES` A LOT OF ETHNIC MINORITY CANDIDATES COMING THROUGH. THOSE USED TO BE REAL BULWARKS OF LABOUR. THEY WERE MIGRANT HEAVY SEATS, AND SOMETHING HAS GONE WRONG IN LABOUR IN TERMS OF KEEPING CONNECTED WITH THOSE MIGRANT COMMUNITIES. THEY ARE NOT STANDING MIGRANT CANDIDATES IN THOSE SEATS. THE ONES THEY HAVE LOST ` SOME BEING INTERVIEWED THERE ` THEY HAVE LOST TO SOME MIGRANT CANDIDATES AS WELL. SOME OF THEM SEEM ALMOST AS SURPRISED AS EVERYONE ELSE THAT THEY HAVE DONE SO WELL IN THOSE SEATS. I THINK IT SHOULD BE A WAKE-UP CALL THERE. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY, BUT IT WASN'T YET ANYWAY FOR HELEN WHITE. I WANT TO TALK QUICKLY ` WE'VE ONLY GOT 30 SECONDS LEFT ` DAN ROSEWARNE HAD SOME INTERESTING COMMENTS THIS WEEK ABOUT GOING FROM CHAMPAGNE TO LEMONADE. HE'S RIGHT ABOUT THE TRANSITION, IN ONE SENSE ` WHEN YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE IN; WHEN YOU'RE OUT, YOU'RE OUT. I AM SURPRISED, BECAUSE USUALLY DEPARTING MPs ARE ALLOWED TO RETAIN TRAVEL PRIVILEGES FOR A MONTH AFTER THE ELECTION, SIMPLY TO FACILITATE MOVEMENT TO AND FRO. SO MAYBE HE MISREAD HIS KORU CLUB ENTRY WRONG. BUT THE POINT HE MAKES, EVEN THOUGH MADE INELEGANTLY, IS CORRECT. YOU'RE SOMEONE ONE DAY, AND THE NEXT DAY, YOU'RE NEXT ` THE SAME POINT RON MARK WAS MAKING EARLIER. AND THE TRANSITION FOR THOSE MPs ` EX MPs ` IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT AND VERY CHALLENGING. AND IT'S BRUTAL, ISN'T IT? MM. IT'S INSTANT. WE'VE SEEN THAT THIS WEEK. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND INSIGHT. DILEEPA, ANNABELLE, AND PETER DUNNE. AND THAT'S IT FOR THE SHOW. EVERYONE IS POLITICALLY EXHAUSTED THIS WEEK. TIME TO TAKE A BREAK AND ENJOY THE LONG WEEKEND. 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