Ko Tu ki runga, ko Tu ki raro, ko Tu ki heahea, ko Tu ki whakaputaina ki te whaiao, ki te ao marama. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e! This week on The Hui ` the unseen health problem that's being caught too late. - We're sort of a bit blind to knowing actually how big the problem is. - I want to apply a Maori lens to our health systems. - We meet Maori clinicians raising the profile on poor eyesight. Plus an update on the historic race-based separatism that discriminated against Maori in Pukekohe. - Well, at least someone's listening to us. - Te hunga kua huri i te ara whakawheturangi i a ratou ma. Haere mai, haere. Tatou nga kanohi ora. Tihei-wa mauri ora. And welcome back to The Hui. Driving, typing and texting ` so much of our life requires good eyes. Yet many of us don't get routine check-ups like we do the dentist and GP. Maori eye health experts want to change that, as they raise the profile on eye conditions affecting te iwi Maori. Mea nei te purongo a Meriana Johnson. - My first thought was, 'Ooh, that's scary.' - A pervasive health condition... - How are you surviving? Your vision is terrible. - ...caught too late. - If I can avoid that for any patient, that is what I'm advocating. (GROUP SING WAIATA) - Arapeta Paea has been performing since he was 5 years old. and is now on stage with Te Matatini stars Te Pikikotuku o Ngati Rongomai. - When it comes to haka, you've gotta have all of your senses working at 100%. You've gotta be sharp. Growing up, I had eagle eye vision. I think I was around 17 or 18, I went to go and do my restricted driver's licence test. Absolutely passed with flying colours, in terms of the driving part. It was just the eye test where I failed. That was the first inkling I had that something was up with my eyes, but I kinda put it on the back burner. - Years later he finally went to see a specialist, who revealed he had a degenerative eye condition. - That was a bit of a shock to me, being told that my eyes are terrible, probably can't or shouldn't be driving, and we've gotta do something now before it gets too late. After the first three weeks of, like, shock and denial, I was trying to figure out how I'd be able to cope with my lifestyle. And I actually started practising playing my guitar with my eyes closed. Worst case scenario, I can be the Maori version of Stevie Wonder on a guitar. - Arapeta had keratoconus. And because he had left it so long, that meant he needed a corneal transplant, at just 23. - You have to be awake for a corneal transplant, because they need your eye to be focused forward. It is a very overwhelming surgery to have done. It's a donor cornea. You're getting a body part from someone else. There is no whakaaro Maori around that process. - So, looking straight ahead. - Renata Watene is one of Aotearoa's few Maori optometrists. - Now three little puffs of air into each eye. So I do have a lot more clientele coming through to see me that are Maori. Optic nerves are good and healthy. Because they've had experiences within the system, and they've thought, well, maybe she can help me because she understands where I'm coming from, from a Maori perspective. - As a young kotiro from Northland, Renata Watene found her path early on. - I went to a school careers day. One of the parents in the class was an optometrist. And I went home and told my mum I was gonna be an optometrist, and I never really changed my mind after that. But interestingly enough, I'm named after Renata Kawepo, who is a one-eyed Maori chief from Kahungunu. Mum was hapu with me and went to the Te Ao Maori exhibition. And Renata Kawepo was one of the paintings that was there. And she immediately gravitated towards it and was adamant I was gonna be a boy, and then said, 'Yep, that's gonna be the name of my boy ` Renata.' And so when I was born and I wasn't a boy, she said, 'That's OK. You're still gonna be called Renata.' - It was an 1869, following the battle of Te Porere Pa, that Kawepo lost his eye. After he murdered the chief Paurini, his young widow, in her grief and rage, gouged out his eye. But instead of enacting revenge on her, he decided to marry her. - I don't know, maybe my pathway was pre-ordained for me to go into optometry. - 20 years of hard work, to becoming an award winning optometrist with two practices across Auckland. - I specifically want to apply a Maori worldview or a Maori lens to our health systems, so that we can start to see equitable outcomes for Maori. - Basically, Maori have particularly poor ocular health. - Micah Rapata is also fighting to stamp out Maori eye health disparities. - When you go through medical school, you kinda get used to that Maori have worse health outcomes in a wide variety of specialties. - Micah has just published the first ever comprehensive review into Maori eye health. It highlights significant disparities between Maori and non-Maori but also exposes gaps in knowledge. - We're sort of a bit blind to knowing actually how big the problem is. - There's never been a national eye health survey in Aotearoa. But what information is available paints a pretty bleak picture. Across a number of eye conditions, Maori fare worse ` like cataracts. This is how it affects people's sight. We're two times more likely to get them, and at a much younger age. Then there's diabetic retinopathy, which looks like this. Yes, diabetes affects your eyesight, and Maori are more likely to have it. - They can't drive themselves to work. They can't drive themselves to the grocery store to get kai. They can't drive themselves to go see their whanau. It's a real limitation on their quality of life. It's heartbreaking to see whanau who could have been treated had they come earlier, but now are too far down the track ` you've gotta tell them that their vision is basically shot. - Arapeta was lucky to receive a donated cornea, so surgery could be done to restore his sight. - I would encourage whanau to give some good thought to donating organs, and especially the cornea. Sight is an amazing thing, and to be able to give that back to a whanau member, you can't really put a price on that. - I also think about the fact that for Maori and Pasifika whanau, we're the ones that need these types of donations the most, but we're not the whanau that are donating. - Tena koe, Arapeta. - Tena koe, Matua. - How much of a difference did it make for you having a Maori doctor? - A world of difference. Actually getting into the room, seeing Micah, I think the first words he said to me were 'tena koe'. And I was like, 'Ooh, hold on. This is a bit different.' It put my mind, my body, my soul at ease. And ultimately, I think after I finished karakia, it was like, 'It's over to you fullas now.' - # He honore... - Arapeta is now sharp as ever, back with his kapa, Nga Uri o Rongomai. - Obviously it's still a work in progress, in terms of getting my eyesight back to 100%. But it's absolutely improved my quality of life. - There's really low-hanging fruit that we can make huge, huge impact. Early screening, early diagnosis. - To make that happen, Renata is lobbying for free eye checks and screening in secondary schools. - I love my job, and I love helping people, and I love seeing our Maori patients. But me being the only clinician that they feel comfortable with, it's not the solution. I actually preferred those ones, out of the ones that you tried. So, it's giving you a good definition around your jawline. I specifically want to make change for Maori, to get equitable outcomes for Maori, and to do that by any means possible. - Matawaia nga whatu i te tirohanga. After the break, an update on a story we brought you earlier this year, the historic race-based separatism that discriminated against Maori in Pukekohe. In our house, it's not Christmas without reindeer pancakes for breakfast. Those look really... Good? Good. Yeah! Dad always tries to guess what he's getting. Bacon has to be in everything. And we always have Nana's mince pies. Apparently you use fruit mince but we use beef. It's kind of weird. VOICEOVER: However you do Christmas, we've got you sorted at New World. - Kia ora mai ano. The scandalous revelations from the book No Maori Allowed highlighted the era of segregation in Pukekohe, on the southern edge of Tamaki Makaurau. It brought to light the details of cruel, race-based separatism that discriminated against Maori. Now there's fresh calls from whanau who are demanding action from the Government, asking for an apology and a commemoration for the innocent lives that had no dignity in death. Mea nei te purongo a Ruwani Perera. - The Pukekohe Borough Building was the former council chambers, at a time when the South Auckland township was racially segregated. Today it's where we bring retired nurse Julie Lewis and former teacher Phyllis Bhana together for the first time. - Tena koe, Phyllis. Ko Julie toku ingoa. - Lovely to meet you. - Phyllis has been one of the leading voices demanding a public apology for the horrific abuse and living conditions whanau endured for decades in Pukekohe. In May Phyllis spoke to The Hui about the inhumane treatment of Maori whanau who came to work in market gardens here. She's also been on a campaign to acknowledge the unmarked graves at the public cemetery. - We weren't allowed to bury there. That was only for the Pakeha, the white people. - Many of these are your own whanau. - Yeah. The majority was through influenza. That's how my nephews died. Probably because of the housing they had back then. - Phyllis's story captured the attention of Julie, who was so moved by what she saw she felt compelled to contact Phyllis. - My ears pricked up, because my grandfather Cuthbert Penny was a market gardener here. - Wow. Yes, I can remember his face. Right. When the programme had finished, the first thought I had was, I must find Phyllis. I want to find Phyllis and acknowledge the awful times that you and your family and other Maori workers went through. I was horrified, to be honest. I'm glad you agreed to meet me. - It sparked a need for Julie to find out more about her grandfather Cuthbert Penny. - I didn't know a lot about my grandfather. I don't know whether he had workers living on his market gardens. Hopefully I'll be able to find that out. But certainly if any of your family were affected by any of mine, I would be truly sorry for that. - It's been over 20 years since Julie has been back in the town she was born and raised in. - Everything is certainly so different. - This one here, Priscilla. - Priscilla. - Priscilla Hirene Andrews. That's my oldest brother's daughter. - Although the grandmothers are the same age, their upbringing couldn't be more different. Yet there's still an openness to learn from each other. - My grandfather is buried here in the military part, and my nana is over there somewhere. So at least I have a gravestone to visit, unlike parents of... - These ones. - ...children here. - Yeah. - Julie says, although she grew up here, she didn't realise Pukekohe was divided by race. - They moved my cousins up to the Maori school. And then they opened that school up just for the white, the Pakeha tamariki. - There was a lot going on that I didn't know about as a child. The racist attitude towards Maori was still there right up until I was at college. And hopefully it can come to terms with its past and become something different. (PUTATARA RESOUNDS) There's been a renewed focus on acknowledging the town's uncomfortable history. In June Phyllis and other mana whenua blessed this mural, Kumete, in honour of the children of Pukekohe, both past and present. - That is the love I want to see come back to Pukekohe. The working together, not only adults with adults, but with the children too. That is magnificent. - Recently the Government earmarked around $700,000 for establishing the design and delivery of a memorial at the cemetery to honour those buried without headstones. - Someone's listening to those silent voices. It's about time. It's taken a long time, but it's started. - And she was here for a number of years, teaching art. - She's now supporting Julie in her search to learn more, a reminder that it's never too late to acknowledge past injustices. - If you hadn't done this programme, I wouldn't have known any of this. It's very emotional. (CHUCKLES) More than I thought. Yeah. - Has it changed you? - Yeah, I think I am a little bit more prepared to stand up and say something nowadays, rather than let it slide. For me personally, I think it's important to work towards making a better future. And I hope that, you know, our future is more inclusive and understanding and tolerant. - I take my hat off to her. It's very brave. - I don't feel brave. I just think it's the right thing to do. For me, it's the right thing to do. Mm. - Papai te aroha, ne? Kia ita tonu mai ra e nga iwi. After the break ` he parekura ranei, he pai noa iho ranei, he pukenga Springbok ranei? We dissect the Rugby World Cup and that final ` aue ` with our resident tohunga takaro. Whutuporo kaumatua Joe Royal is with us after this. VOICEOVER: "Time to get up," said Moon to Sun. "My shift is over and yours has begun. "These things are tough, it has to be said. "And sometimes you wish you could stay in bed. "But you should know you are loved by all, "from the moment you rise until you finally fall." Sun never forgot what Moon had said. BOTH: There is always a reason... To get out of bed. - He Hui hakinakina inaianei kei te haere ake e te iwi. Nau mai ano. Well, It's been hailed as the greatest competition in world sport, the All Blacks and the Springboks. And yet most of the talk after the World Cup final has focused not on who won, but how it was won and who officiated. South Africa are world rugby champions for an unprecedented fourth time, and here to share his tears with me is Maori All Black kaumatua (LAUGHS) and our royal resident rugby expert, Joe Royal, he uri no Ngati Whatua, no nga iwi o te motu. Joe, tena koe. Nau mai. Kia ora e hoa. - Tena koe. - First of all, you went to Te Aute, didn't you? - Of course. Of course. - So eminently qualified to talk about these matters, as am I. What happened? How did we lose that? - I think everyone saw, you know ` the multiple yellow cards that we got ` red and a yellow. But, yeah, I just think South Africa came to play. We slowly adapted. And we had our chances to win, but yeah, there's a whole lot of controversy happening and a lot of talking points on the World Cup, especially that final. - Yeah, so let's talk about the officiating soon. But would there have been any other team in the world that could have played with only 14 men on the field for 50 minutes and got even slightly close to winning? - Oh, to be honest, I don't think so. Because there's... I know the All Black camp have that strong mental training where they will prep for these things. And you saw in the semi-final, when we had a yellow, and they chose not to put Barrett back on. Yeah, I don't know if any teams do that and train for that, but I definitely know the All Blacks, they prepare for everything. - Unfortunately, I think we can't go past this thing without talking about the officiating. Were you hoha with the intrusion, repeated intrusion of a person who wasn't even on the field ` not the ref, the TMO, and everyone else around the TMO? - Yeah, it's a funny thing, the TMO, because it's only new to rugby, and it's big in league. But yeah, I felt a bit hoha, cos you second-guessed what the ref was actually gonna call, especially when things were going our way. I think we saw in that Aaron Smith try, and it got pulled back, and you actually hear Wayne Barnes say play on, it wasn't a knock-on, and then the TMO gets in his ear. Um... Yeah, I think maybe the TMO and the bunker had too much to say. And I think that's an issue maybe World Rugby needs to look at. - It was weird, because you're right, you heard him say ` someone on the side-line said knock-on, and he said, 'No, no, I've seen it. We're carrying on.' And yet when it came to Ardie Savea, when he stole the ball in a ruck and was able to get the ball, and then he penalised him, and then Ardie showed him ` when it came on the big screen, Ardie said to him, 'No, no I was all good.' And he went, 'No, you're right. I made a mistake,' but then didn't stop the penalty kick, you know? And as a fan, you go, 'Man, is this the level that you want to see in a Rugby World Cup final?' - Yeah, it's tough too, cos Wayne Barnes is, like, a very experienced ref. Like, I think he's 111-odd Test matches as a ref. And you'd like to think that, you know, some... like, a decision like that, cos I mean, people will look at it and be like, he actually gifted them three points, cos it was in a kickable position. South Africa kicked it. So if it was further down the field, could've got away with just kicking it out, you know? But I think in a situation like that, yeah, maybe he could have pulled it back. But I guess... - Does it concern you, as a participant in the game ` and you're still playing, and you've just told me earlier that you're still gonna play next year, which is commendable ` but does it concern you that in the two World Cup finals, so the Women's World Cup final last year, we came out on the right side of that; England got a red card ` 14 players; this year, red card ` 14 players; does it concern you that that level of technicality is having an adverse impact on the games? - Yeah, it is, actually, because... as a participant, but even as a spectator, you want to see the game played out 15 against 15. And I know there's talks, or other coaches and that have been talking about a 20-minute red card ` just having someone come back on, just to have that even playing field. But yeah, it is tough. I haven't been in World Cup finals, but I've been in teams where we've had to drop to 13 players, and it's tough, you know. When you get your boys back, or your players back, you know, you get that extra little boost. But knowing that you're not gonna have them for a long time, it's tough. - What do you think Ian Foster's legacy, the way in which we think about Ian Foster as an All Black coach, what do you think history will say about him? Will it treat him kindly? - Uh... If you look at his record, he's actually sitting third for game percentage as a coach, as an All Black coach. So... yeah, he's had a bad run leading into the World Cup and had some heat on him as a coach. But if you look at his stats as an All Black coach, he's actually sitting around 80-something percent. - Does it make it easier for Scott Robertson coming in as the coach, or harder, the fact that lots of people didn't have high expectations of this team and him, and yet they made it all the way to the final, and almost won a final, one man down? - I think it will be... I think it will be harder, just from a public perspective. Like, the public are gonna expect big things from Razor. Um... I haven't been coached under him, but I've sat in a room and spoken to him. Knowing Razor, he's that type of person that will take the challenge. Again, yeah, from a public perspective, it's going to be hard for him, but I think he'll do well. - One last thing. So, it was announced today that Ardie Savea was the Player of the Year. A good Hurricanes man ` your favourite team. (LAUGHS) - Of course, of course. - Of course. But no surprise, really. I mean, this guy has been amazing, actually for the last three, four years, right? - Yeah, exactly. He's like... I did manage to play with him in the Hurricanes for one of the years. And this was when he was first starting out. Straight away, you could see the leadership qualities and the type of player he was going to be. And to see him get announced as Player of the Year ` World Player of the Year this morning was, yeah, credit to him and all the mahi that he's been doing. You see the stuff that he does outside of footy. I think it just makes him an all-round player, all around person. You know, he's grounded and he works hard. So well deserved. - I'm glad we ended on the Hurricanes note, by the way. E hoa, tena koe. - Nga mihi. Thank you for coming and thanks for talking to us. Really appreciate the time. Gee, it's gonna take a while to get over this, eh? Engari, e mihi ana, Joe. - We'll get there. - Tena koe. Tena koe. Kia ahatia e nga iwi. Hei taupuke ake i ta tatou Hui i tenei haora nei. We have a new waiata ko nga kaiwaiata ko Riiki Reid raua ko Muroki, ko ta raua waiata e ki ana ko Karewa. - He ao te waiata. Kia ahatia e tamara ma, kua tairi ake te kete korero a Te Hui ki konei inaianei. You can find all our stories on our social media platforms and at newshub.co.nz. Kia mau ki te turanga o Taputapuatea. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e! Captions by James Brown. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2023 - Ko te reo te take. - Na Te Puna Whakatongarewa Te Hui i tautoko.