TENA TATOU KATOA. I'M REBECCA WRIGHT. AND I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. NAU MAI ` WELCOME TO NEWSHUB NATION. HOLD ON, NEW ZEALAND ` WE HAVE A GOVERNMENT, A THREE-PARTY COALITION FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OUR HISTORY. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER-IN-WAITING DAVID SEYMOUR JOINS US LIVE. HOW IS INCOMING FINANCE MINISTER NICOLA WILLIS GOING TO PAY FOR THOSE TAX CUTS? SHE'S WITH US TOO. AND A DIPLOMATIC BREAKTHROUGH IN THE ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR ` FORMER PRIME MINISTER HELEN CLARK ON WHAT THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY NEEDS TO DO DURING THE PAUSE. CAPTIONS BY MAEVE KELLY AND KATE HARRIS. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 THEY ARE PROMISING CHANGE, AND A LOT OF IT ` FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, NEW ZEALAND HAS A THREE-PARTY COALITION. AND THERE'S ANOTHER FIRST TOO ` AN UNPRECEDENTED DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER JOB-SHARE. NEW ZEALAND FIRST LEADER WINSTON PETERS HAS FIRST GO, WITH DAVID SEYMOUR SUBBING IN FROM MAY 2025. THEN THERE ARE THE POLICIES. NATIONAL GOT ITS TAX CUTS ACROSS THE LINE BUT NOT ITS FOREIGN BUYERS TAX ` SO HOW WILL THE CUTS BE FUNDED? MEANWHILE, LANDLORDS WILL BE FEELING FLUSH ` THEIR TAX CUTS WILL BE BROUGHT FORWARD. ACT WON'T GET A REFERENDUM ON TE TIRITI O WAITANGI, BUT IT HAS SECURED SUPPORT FOR A BILL TO DEFINE ITS PRINCIPLES. NEW ZEALAND FIRST HAS WON A COVID INQUIRY TO INVESTIGATE THE EFFICACY OF THE VACCINE AND LOCKDOWNS. FAIR PAY AGREEMENTS WILL BE GONE BY CHRISTMAS. 90-DAY TRIALS ARE BACK FOR ALL BUSINESSES, AND SOME BENEFICIARIES WILL BE SUBJECT TO ELECTRONIC MONEY MANAGEMENT. AND THERE'S A LOT HEADING FOR THE POLICY SCRAPHEAP. THE WORLD-FIRST LEGISLATION DESIGNED TO CREATE A SMOKEFREE GENERATION ` GONE; THE NEW MAORI HEALTH AUTHORITY SCRAPPED. LIGHT RAIL, 'LET'S GET WELLINGTON MOVING' AND THE LAKE ONSLOW ELECTRICITY SCHEME ` ALL CANCELLED; MAORI NAMES FOR MOST GOVERNMENT AGENCIES WILL ALSO BE GONE, AND SO WILL THE THREE WATERS REFORMS. IT'S A LOT TO ABSORB, BUT SOMEONE WHO HAS TO BE ACROSS THE DETAIL IS INCOMING FINANCE MINISTER NICOLA WILLIS. MORENA. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. GREAT TO BE WITH YOU. A THREE PARTY COALITION. LOOKING AT THOSE DOCUMENTS, TO MINOR PARTIES SEEM TO BE WAGGING THE DOG. WOULD YOU AGREE?> I THINK THEY HAVE GOT SOME IMPORTANT COMMITMENTS FOR THEIR VOTERS ACROSS THE LINE, BUT THERE IS A REALLY COHERENT GOVERNMENT THAT HAS COME TOGETHER WITH SOME SHARED GOALS ` REDUCING THE COST OF LIVING, STRENGTHENING THE NEW ZEALAND ECONOMY, GETTING THE BOOKS IN ORDER, RESTORING LAW & ORDER AND IMPROVING HEALTH AND EDUCATION. THOSE ARE SHARED GOALS AND TOGETHER WE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT THAT WILL DELIVER. SO IN TERMS OF CHRISTOPHER LUXON'S SKILLS, DID HE DELIVER OR DID HE HAVE TO GIVE AWAY QUITE A BIT? HE DID DELIVER. I THINK WHAT HE HAS DONE IS NOT JUST PUT TOGETHER AN AGREEMENT THAT SOUNDED GOOD YESTERDAY BUT PUT TOGETHER AN AGREEMENT THAT SETS A STRONG FOUNDATION FOR A STABLE GOVERNMENT OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS. THROUGH THE NEGOTIATIONS WE GOT TO KNOW EACH OTHER AND CAME TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS DRIVING EACH OTHER'S POLICIES, THE MOTIVATIONS BEHIND THEM, DISCUSSED AREAS OF DISAGREEMENT. WE ARE NOW IN A REALLY GOOD PLACE TO GET AROUND A CABINET TABLE AND MAKE CHANGES FOR THE BETTER OF THE COUNTRY. SO WINSTON PETERS WILL BE THERE AROUND THE CABINET TABLE. YOU HAD TO GIVE WAY ON THE FOREIGN BUYERS TAX. HAS HE GIVEN YOU A FISCAL HEADACHE? YOU NOW HAVE MORE THAN A $2 BILLION HOLE. I AM REALLY PLEASED THAT WE ARE KEEPING OUR COMMITMENT TO NEW ZEALANDERS TO REDUCE THE TAX THEY PAY AND LET THEM KEEP MORE OF WHAT THEY OWN. BEAR IN MIND... HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR IT? THE VAST BULK OF THE TAX PLAN REMAINS IN PLACE. THE FOREIGN BUYERS TAX WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR LESS THAN 20% OF THE COST OF THE PROGRAM, AND WE ARE FORGING AHEAD WITH THE OTHER SEVEN AREAS OF REPRIORITISATION OF ADDITIONAL REVENUE. LET'S TALK ABOUT IT. TO MAKE UP THAT 20%, WE ARE IS THAT GOING TO COME FROM? WILL YOU BORROW? THREE MAIN AREAS. THE FIRST IS WE ARE TRIMMING THE PACKAGE BEYOND 2024. WE WILL DELIVER THE CORE COMMITMENTS IN 24. THE SECOND AREA IS WE HAVE ADDITIONAL REVENUE COMING AND AND SOME EXTRA SAVINGS, AND I WILL COME BACK TO THAT. THE THIRD THING IS THAT NATIONAL IS VERY CAREFUL TO PUT TOGETHER A FISCAL PLAN THAT HAD SIGNIFICANT BUFFERS OF UNALLOCATED SPENDING. LET'S GO BACK TO THAT. TRIMMING THE PACKAGE BEYOND 2024. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? WHAT ARE YOU TRIMMING? WHEN YOU WENT ON TO OUR TAX CALCULATOR DURING THE CAMPAIGN, YOU SAW THE TAX REDUCTION WE WERE PROMISING YOU FOR NEXT YEAR. THAT COMMITMENT STAYS. BEYOND THAT, WE HAD SAID THAT IN 2026 WE WOULD MAKE ADDITIONAL CHANGES TO WORKING FOR FAMILIES AT THE COST OF AROUND HALF A BILLION. WE WILL NOT PROGRESS THOSE. THAT IS HALF $1 BILLION. WE WILL NOT DO ANY TAX REDUCTION AHEAD OF JULY OTHER THAN MAKING SOME CHANGES TO INTERESTED DEDUCTIBILITY FOR RENTAL PROPERTIES. COMING BACK TO THOSE EXTRA SOURCES OF REVENUE AND OTHER SAVINGS AREAS THAT WILL HELP US TO FIND THE TAX REDUCTION, WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE CHANGES TO THE SMOKE-FREE LEGISLATION HAD A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE GOVERNMENT BOOKS, WITH ABOUT $1 BILLION. THERE IS ALSO OUR COMMITMENT AND THE COALITION AGREEMENTS TO DOING A LOT MORE WORK ON TAX AUDITS TO MAKE SURE THOSE WHO OWE TAX ARE PAYING FAIRLY, AND WE DO EXPECT EXTRA REVENUE FROM THAT. WE ALSO MADE A COMMITMENT TO REFOCUS THE FEES FREE PROGRAM AND TO ENSURE WE GET AN ABSOLUTE VALUE FOR MONEY OUT OF THE SCHOOL... THAT WON'T RAISE MUCH MONEY. THAT IS ONLY 100 MILLION A YEAR. ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE TAX ON SMOKERS IS GOING TO FIND THE TAX CUTS? IS THAT WHAT I JUST HEARD? WHAT YOU SAW IN THE PRE-ELECTION FISCAL UPDATE WAS THAT TREASURY ASSESSED THAT THE EFFECT OF DRASTICALLY REDUCING THE NUMBER OF SHOPS THAT COULD SELL TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND INTRODUCING A RANGE OF RESTRICTIONS WOULD SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE REVENUE TO THE CROWN. WE WILL BE ASKING FOR UPDATES ON WHAT IMPACT THAT WILL HAVE, BECAUSE BOTH NEW ZEALAND FIRST AND THE ACT PARTY WERE INSISTENT THAT THEY WANTED THOSE REGULATIONS REVERSED, AND WE HAVE AGREED TO THAT. OK. SO SMOKERS WILL FUND THE TAX CUTS BECAUSE NEW ZEALAND FIRST AND ACT WANT THE SMOKERS TO HAVE ACCESS TO CIGARETTES. OK. LET'S TALK SOMETHING ELSE. ONE $0.2 BILLION TOWARDS NEW ZEALAND FIRST'S REGIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE FUND. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM THE PROVINCIAL GROWTH FUND WHICH YOU DESCRIBED AS A SLUSH FUND THAT WASTED MILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? ALL THREE PARTIES IN THE COALITION HAVE A STRONG COMMITMENT TO PRODUCTIVE GROWTH ENHANCING INFRASTRUCTURE. THIS FUND WILL BE A CAPITAL FUND. THAT MEANS IT IS FOR INVESTING IN ASSETS THAT WILL LAST FOR MANY DECADES INTO THE FUTURE AND MAKE OUR REGION STRONGER. THAT SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE THE PROVINCIAL GROWTH FUND. IT IS CAPITAL FUNDING, WHICH DOES MEAN THAT THESE ARE LONG-HELD ASSETS. THE OTHER THING IS OF COURSE WE WILL AS A GOOD GOVERNMENT LEARNED THE LESSONS FROM LABOURS FAILURES WHEN IT CAME TO GETTING GOOD QUALITY SPENDING AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE QUALITY PROCESSES IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THE RIGHT PROJECTS GET FUNDED AND THEY DELIVER. RIGHT. SO THAT AS A WARNING TO NEW ZEALAND FIRST, IS IT? ABSOLUTELY NOT. I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING WITH SHANE JONES AND CHRIS BISHOP TO GET INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT THAT IS GOOD FOR OUR ECONOMY, GROWTH, PEOPLE. YOU ARE ALSO THE MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE. AS YOU HAVE FORECAST, YOU WANT TO CUT BY 6.5%, BUT THE WORDING IN THE POLICY DOCUMENT SAYS BACK TO 2017 LEVELS, WHICH IS AN ACT PARTY POLICY. DOES THAT MEAN THESE CUTS WILL BE BIGGER THAN 615%? WHAT WE HAVE SAID IN THE COALITION AGREEMENT *6.5%. IS THAT WE WANT TO LOOK AT WHAT THE NUMBERS WERE IN 2017, LOOK HOW MUCH IT HAS GROWN AND USE THAT AS ONE OF THE GUIDES TO IDENTIFY THE AREAS WHERE THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF GROWTH AND BUREAUCRACY. THAT WILL BE INPUT INTO OUR PLANS. THE DIFFERENCE IS 15,000 STAFF IS AT? WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO IS LOOK AT WHAT THAT DATA TELLS US AND USE THAT AS ONE OF THE INPUTS INTO GUIDING WHAT SORT OF SPENDING REDUCTIONS WE WILL EXPECT FROM GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS HUGE GROWTH IN GOVERNMENT SPENDING OVER THESE PAST SIX YEARS WITHOUT THE RESULTS THAT NEW ZEALANDERS WOULD HAVE EXPECTED FROM THAT SPENDING, WHETHER THAT IS IN HEALTH, EDUCATION, CRIME. I AM REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING ALONGSIDE THE PUBLIC SERVICE TO DELIVER BETTER RESULTS MORE EFFICIENTLY, MORE VALUE FOR MONEY. BUT IS IT GOING TO BE MORE THAN 6.5%? WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO, AS ANY PRUDENT GOVERNMENT WOULD DO, IS ASK AGENCIES TO COME TO US WITH WHERE ARE THE AREAS WHERE YOU THINK THERE ISN'T GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY, AND WE WILL TAKE THOSE SUGGESTIONS... IT SOUNDS LIKE IT IS FLEXIBLE. THAT IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT. YOU ARE ALSO THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL INVESTMENT. THIS IS A NEW PORTFOLIO. I WANT HOW THAT WILL BE DIFFERENT FROM THE MINISTER FOR SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT. LOUISE UPSTON AND THE SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT PORTFOLIO AS MY INTEREST IN SOCIAL INVESTMENT AND WILL BE BRINGING THOSE PRINCIPLES TO BEAR IN HER WORK. FOR US, SOCIAL INVESTMENT IS A CROSS GOVERNMENT. IT IS ABOUT WHAT ARE THE EVIDENCE, THE DATA TELLING US ABOUT INTERVENTIONS THAT ARE REALLY WORKING TO CHANGE PEOPLE'S LIVES OVER THE LONG RUN? LET'S IDENTIFY THOSE USING THE BEST RESEARCH THAT WE CAN; LET'S POWER THEM UP, CHANGE PEOPLE'S LIVES AND ACTUALLY SAVE THE GOVERNMENT MONEY, BECAUSE WHEN INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES FAIL, THAT IS BAD FOR THE BOOKS TOO. ARE YOU INVESTING SOCIALLY WHEN YOU ARE PUSHING BACK THE ABATEMENT FOR WORKING FOR FAMILIES AND CHANGING THE WAY THAT BENEFITS ARE INDEXED? HOW WAS THAT SOCIAL INVESTMENT? ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT SOCIAL INVESTMENTS WE CAN MAKE IS ENSURING THAT FAMILIES AND THEIR HOUSEHOLD BUDGETS HAVE THE MONEY THEY NEED TO MEET THEIR COSTS. ACTUALLY, WE HAVE HAD A GOVERNMENT THAT HAS BEEN OVERTAXING FAMILIES AND WE ARE GOING TO BE A GOVERNMENT THAT PUTS MORE MONEY IN THEIR BACK POCKETS. EDUCATION IS GOING TO BE A REAL PRIORITY FOR US, AND THAT IS KEY TO UNLOCKING CYCLES OF DISADVANTAGE AND ENSURING THAT KIDS CAN ACTUALLY TAP THEIR POTENTIAL. WE ARE GOING TO LIFT BENEFITS AND MINIMUM WAGE EVERY YEAR. WE HAVE PUT ASIDE MONEY TO HELP OUR HEALTH SYSTEM. IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE MONEY YOU PUT ASIDE; IT IS WHAT YOU GET OUT OF IT. SOCIAL INVESTMENT FOR THIS GOVERNMENT WILL BE ABOUT ENSURING WE GET MAXIMUM RESULTS FOR PEOPLE. CONGRATULATIONS, NICOLA, AND THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN A HELL OF A YEAR FOR ACT LEADER DAVID SEYMOUR, WHO ENDS IT AS THE NEW MINISTER FOR REGULATION AND DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER IN WAITING. HE JOINS US NOW. GOOD MORNING, DAVID. WELCOME TO THE SHOW. GOOD MORNING, REBECCA. CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU. I HAD A FEW PEOPLE GET IN TOUCH AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO A RELATIONSHIP WHERE WE WORK WITH THE PUBLIC SERVICE TO GET BETTER RESULTS FOR NEW ZEALANDERS IN RETURN FOR THEIR TAXES THAN PERHAPS WE HAVE UNDER PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT. THAT WILL BE A KEY RELATIONSHIP. I WANT TO PICK UP ON SOMETHING NICOLA WILLIS SAID, WHICH IS THAT SMOKERS WILL PAY FOR OUR TAX CUTS, OR AT LEAST PART OF THEM. SHE SEEMED TO PUT THAT ONTO YOU, THE ACT PARTY AND NEW ZEALAND FIRST. FIRST OF ALL I THINK IT IS WORTH ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT'S TRAJECTORY IS EFFECTIVELY TO FORCE TOBACCO UNDERGROUND. WE WILL HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CAN BUY TOBACCO; YOU ARE GOING TO BAN CIGARETTES WITH A LOT OF NICOTINE IN THEM, AND I SUSPECT THAT THEY WILL TAKE IT TO ABOUT THE SAME PLACE THAT THE CANNABIS MARKET IS AT. A LOT OF GANGS MAKING A LOT OF MONEY SELLING IT UNDERGROUND. WHAT WILL NOW HAPPEN IS THAT ALL OF THOSE DAIRY OWNERS AS PART OF THEIR REVENUE, ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE LAW-ABIDING AND DON'T BREAK RULES CAN CONTINUE TO BUY AND THE GOVERNMENT CAN CONTINUE TO TAX, AND I THINK THAT IS A MORE REALISTIC SOLUTION THAN WHAT THE PREVIOUS COVENANT WAS HEADED TOWARDS. YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH THAT IS WORHT? I HAVEN'T SEEN THE EXACT PROJECTIONS. TOBACCO TAX HAS BROUGHT IN ABOUT ONE .8 BILLION PER YEAR. THE TREASURY HAD FORECAST THAT WOULD FALL OVER THE COMING YEARS BY A FEW HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS EVERY THREE OR FOUR YEARS UNTIL EVENTUALLY THERE IS NO SMOKING. BEAR IN MIND THAT SMOKE-FREE 2025 WAS 5% OF PEOPLE SMOKING. IT IS CURRENTLY 7% OR 8%. SO IT WASN'T GOING TO CHANGE A LOT, BUT IT WAS GOING TO BECOME VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE WOULD SOURCE LEGALLY AND WHETHER THEY WOULD PAY TAX. IT WAS INTERESTING TO HEAR THAT. I WANT TO MOVE ONTO SOME OF THE OTHER PART OF THE COALITION AGREEMENT, WHICH WE FINALLY GOT. IT LOOKS THE BRUTAL AGO GILETS JAUNES HAS TAKEN PLACE. ACT HAS KILLED A FEW OF NATIONAL'S POLICY IS THAT IT CAMPAIGNED ON LIKE THE TAXPAYERS RECEIPT. IT HAS PLEDGED TO CUT FUNDING REGULATIONS AND AS IT LOOKS LIKE YOU MIGHT KILL THE EV CHARGING NETWORK AND THE WAIKATO MEDICAL SCHOOL. YOU WANT A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS. WHY? LET ME START WITH YOUR CHARACTERISATION OF THE NEGOTIATION. FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT HAS BEEN A VERY GOOD NEGOTIATION. PEOPLE FORGET THESE ARE THREE POLITICAL PARTIES WHO ARE SOMETIMES QUITE FIERCE COMPETITORS AND AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN LESS THAN SIX WEEKS AGO. TODAY, WE ARE COOPERATORS IN A CABINET WITH A JOINT UPGRADE STRATEGY WHICH WE WILL NEED, BECAUSE OF THE CHALLENGES WE FACE. CRIME, ON THE SOCIAL COHESION FRONT. ALSO, YOU WILL HAVE HELEN CLARK LATER ON TO TALK ABOUT GAZA ` THE WORLD IS NOT A NICE STRATEGIC ENVIRONMENT IT ONCE WAS. YOU CALL IT BRUTAL; I THINK IT HAS BEEN A CONSTRUCTIVE. BUSHEL IS NOT BAD. SOMETIMES NECESSARY. THE MEDICAL SCHOOL, THE EV CHARGING NETWORK YOU DON'T THINK IT STACKS UP? WE ARE SCEPTICAL. FOR EXAMPLE, THE ARGUMENT ARGUMEN THAT WE NEED 1/3 MEDICAL SCHOOL; IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO EXPAND THE PLACES OF THE TWO EXISTING ONES IF THE GOAL IS TO GET MORE DOCTORS QUICKER. BUT WHAT WE HAVE SAID IS WE ARE OPEN TO BEING CONVINCED. LET'S MAKE SURE THAT BEFORE WE SIGN UP TO IT AND RUN OFF AND SPEND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT WE KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS REALLY ARE AND DO THEY STACK UP. SAME THING WITH THE EV CHARGING NETWORK. I DON'T THINK NICOLA WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT AT ALL. IN FACT, I AM SURE AS A FINANCE MINISTER SHE WILL BE QUITE INSISTENT ON THE NUMBERS STACKING UP FOR EVERYTHING, AND IN THAT SHE HAS ACTS. OR. WE HAVE ALSO BRIEFLY TALKED ABOUT IN THE TAX POLICY. THE COALITION DOCUMENT SAYS THE PARTIES WILL ENSURE THE CONCEPT OF ACT INCOME TAX POLICY ARE CONSIDERED AS A PATHWAY TO DELIVERING NATIONAL TAX RELIEF. THAT MEANS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT ACT HAS PROPOSED IT IS A SIMPLER FLATTER TAX SYSTEM THAN WE HAVE NOW, IT WE BELIEVE IT MAY BE POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD DO IT THAT WAY, TAX SIMPLIFICATION AND GIVE PEOPLE THE MONEY THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS PROMISING PEOPLE. WE'RE NOT GOING TO DIE IN A DEBT OVER THAT, BUT WE ARE PLEASED THAT THE AGREEMENT SAYS THAT WE WILL COMMIT TO INVESTIGATING BOTH OPTIONS AS TAX COMES ABOUT, AND IF THAT INDEED STACKS UP, IT MAY BE THE OTHER PARTY SAY THAT IS A GOOD IDEA. I THINK IT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW WE COMMIT TO WORK TOGETHER, BE EVIDENCE-BASED AND FIND THE BEST POLITIES WITH EVERYBODY BRINGING SOMETHING TO THE TABLE. YOU ALSO HAVE THE TREATY PRINCIPLES. YOU DIDN'T GET THE REFERENDUM BUT YOU DID GET TO THE PRINCIPAL'S BILL TO BE INTRODUCED. WHAT IS THE POINT OF THAT? THE OTHER PARTIES HAVE SAID OUTRIGHT ` NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. THE TREATY PRINCIPLES ACT IS ACTUALLY THE PIECE OF LAW THAT WOULD BE CONFIRMED BY REFERENDUM IF IT GOES ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE THREE READINGS. THE OTHER PARTIES WERE A BIT SCEPTICAL ABOUT THAT, AND WE SAID, OK, LET'S JUST GET IT THROUGH THE FIRST STEP, DRAFT THE BILL, DEBATE, SEND IT TO THE SELECT COMMITTEE AND LET PEOPLE HAVE A SAY. I SUSPECT THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY ARE GOING TO REALLY WELCOME THAT CONVERSATION AND IT WILL BE A POSITIVE THING. THE PEOPLE OUT THERE SAYING THIS IS TERRIBLE WILL SAY, HANG ON. DEBATING THE PRINCIPLES OF THE TREATY ACTUALLY INCREASES ITS MANA BECAUSE WE ARE FINALLY TALKING ABOUT IT DEMOCRATICALLY, WHICH WE HAVEN'T DONE. IT HAS BEEN DECIDED AND BACK ROOMS AND COURTS. THE NATURE OF THAT DEBATE... I SUSPECT THAT AFTER WE GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS THE OTHER PARTIES MIGHT JUST CHANGE THEIR MIND AND DECIDE IT IS A GOOD THING. OR THEY MIGHT NOT, BUT WE HAVE SECURED TO GET THAT FAR AND I THINK THAT THAT IS A TREMENDOUS PROGRESS AFTER 40 YEARS OF PARLIAMENT SAYING THAT OUR PRINCIPLES BUT WON'T SAY WHAT THEY ARE. CHRISTOPHER LUXON WAS SAYING AS RECENTLY AS YESTERDAY ABSOLUTELY NOT THAT THEY WOULD SUPPORT A PREVENT FIRST BILL BUT THAT THEY WOULDN'T SUPPORT IT BEYOND THAT. SO YOU HAVE CRITICISED THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT... HE HASN'T SAID THAT. THERE HAS BEEN CONFUSION. HE WAS ASKED IF THEY HAD COMMITMENT TO SUPPORT BEYOND THAT. SO YOU THINK THE DOOR IS OPEN? ABSOLUTELY.. YOU CRITICISE LABOUR FOR ITS PET PROJECTS AND SPENDING A LOT OF TIME AND ENERGY ON THEM. THIS DOES SEEM LIKE THE SAME THING. IT IS AN ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL DEBATE ABOUT WHAT OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENT MEANS TO US IN MODERN TIMES THAT HAS TO HAPPEN. TWO YEARS AGO WHEN WE RAISED THE PROSPECT, NOBODY SUPPORTED THE IDEA OF A REFERENDUM. NOW IT IS A LIVE DEBATE THAT IS GOING TO GET AT LEAST AM WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS AND POTENTIALLY FURTHER. THE IDEA THAT HAVING A PROPER UNDERSTANDING OF OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENT DECIDED BY ALL PEOPLE AS A PET PROJECT IS PROBABLY A POOR CHOICE OF WORDS. WE CAN FIGURE THAT OUT AT THE SELECT COMMITTEE. I DO WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PET PROJECTS. BUT I WANT TO QUICKLY ASK YOU AS WELL THE MINISTRY FOR REGULATION ALMOST SEEMS COUNTERINTUITIVE THAT YOU HAVE A MINISTRY FOR REGULATION THAT IS TRYING TO GET RID OF REGULATION AND BUREAUCRACY. SO TELL ME WHAT IS IT GOING TO BE? IT IS YOUR ONLY FULL MINISTERIAL PORTFOLIO. MUST BE IMPORTANT. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT. IT IS A NEW DEPARTMENT, A NEW POSITION. THE WAY THAT I WOULD PUT IT IS THIS ` AT THE MOMENT WE HAVE A MINISTER OF FINANCE, TREASURY; THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF HOW THE GOVERNMENT TO SPEND AND WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM AND WHERE IT GOES AND GETTING VALUE FOR MONEY FROM PEOPLE'S TAXES. WE MAY SOMETIMES THINK THEY ARE NOT SPENDING IT WELL, BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE A CLEAR VIEW OF HOW THEY DO IT. ON THE OTHER HAND, THE OTHER THING GOVERNMENT CAN DO OTHER THAN TAX IS REGULATE HOW YOU USE THE PROPERTY IT HASN'T TAKEN ALREADY. THAT I WOULD ARGUE IS HAVING A BIGGER EFFECT ON PRODUCTIVITY AND CULTURE THAN ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS HAPPENING IN GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW. SO THE ARGUMENT AS IF REGULATION IS ALSO HAVING A MAJOR IMPACT ON PEOPLE AND THE ECONOMY THERE NEEDS TO BE A PART OF GOVERNMENT THAT SAYS, WHAT IS GOOD REGULATION? IS THIS PARTICULAR NEW LAW FITTING UP TO THAT? AND IS PREPARED TO GO THROUGH THE EXISTING LAWS THAT AFFECT EVERY SECTOR, TAKE EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION.... WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, BUT I DO GET IT. ... AND START BLASTING OUT THOSE NEGATIVE REGULATIONS. I THINK IT IS OVERDUE. I AM REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT CHANGE. INNOVATION BROUGHT TO THE TABLE THAT WILL MAKE NEW ZEALAND MUCH BETTER OFF. WE WILL BE EXCITED TO SEE YOUR FEET GET UNDER THAT DESK. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US HERE ON THE NATION. THANK YOU. STAY WITH US FOR ALL THE ANALYSIS FROM OUR POLITICAL PANEL ` DITA DE BONI, MIHI FORBES AND JASON WALLS PLUS, RAP SONG: # I don't even care I ain't never had manners # No way, no way # Yo! # Sitting while you rap 'cause we just can't... # (CHAIR MECHANISM SQUEAKS) VOICEOVER: From $2.50, introducing the Subway Value Bites range. WAIHAPE MAI. IT'S TIME FOR OUR PANEL ` NBR SENIOR JOURNALIST DITA DE BONI, MATA HOST MIHI FORBES AND NEWSTALK ZB POLITICAL EDITOR JASON WALLS. TENA KOUTOU ` WELCOME. WE GOT THERE AT LAST. JASON, YOU HAVE BEEN COVERING IT. HOW DO YOU RATE CHRISTOPHER LUXON'S EMERGING SKILLS? THE THIS IS TAKING TOO LONG CROWD WILL NOW BE SILENCED. AT THIS POINT, NO ONE REMEMBERS HOW LONG IT TOOK, THEY JUST REMEMBER THE DEAL. LOOKING AT WHAT CHRISTOPHER LUXON HAS ACHIEVED, IT AS THREE PARTIES in COALITION WHICH IS QUITE REMARKABLE. YOU HAVE TO GIVE HIM SOME CREDIT FOR GETTING DAVID SEYMOUR AND WINSTON PETERS AROUND THE TABLE, AND GETTING A DEAL ACROSS THE LINE. I RATED HIGHLY WITH THE ONE BLEMISH BEING THAT THEY HAVE HAD TO DITCH THE FOREIGN BUYERS TAX, AND IT LEAVES THEM WITH A HOLE IN THEIR FLAGSHIP POLICY. ARE YOU OVERALL SURPRISED, MIHI? I THINK ANYONE IN THE MARGINS WITH VULNERABLE WOMEN AND ETHNICITIES, THEY ARE BRACING THEMSELVES. THEY FEEL LIKE THEY BURNED THE HOUSE DOWN. I AGREE THAT IT IS A BIG F YOU TO MAORI. THERE ARE SOME BUSINESS THINGS THAT ARE GOOD, BUT I WOULD CALL IT A BOOMER MANIFESTO ON THE SOCIAL SIDE. LET'S TALK ABOUT A COUPLE OF SPECIFICS. IT IS NOT A JOB SHARE, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER? IT IS LIKE NEW ZEALAND IS THE CHILD, AND TWO DIVORCED PARENTS ARE SHARING US. IT HAS KEPT BOTH OF THEM ON SIDE. IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS KEPT BOTH DAVID SEYMOUR AND WINSTON PETERS ON SIDE. WITHIN THE NEGOTIATIONS, IT IS PERCEIVED TO BE FAIR. I THINK DAVID SEYMOUR MAY COME OUT A BIT BETTER IN TERMS OF THE SHARE, GIVEN THAT WINSTON IS ALSO THE FOREIGN MINISTER, HE MAY BE OUT OF THE COUNTRY AS WELL, AND SEYMOUR WILL ASSUME THE ROLE. LOOKING AT THE PERCENTAGES FOR EACH PARTY, I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO SEE NICOLA WILLIS. IT SEEMS VERY MALE HEAVY. LET'S TALK ABOUT PARTICULAR POLICIES. JASON MENTIONED THE FOREIGN BUYERS TAX SCUPPERED BY NEW ZEALAND FIRST. NICOLA WILLIS SAYS WE WILL GET IT FROM WORKING BACK WORKING FOR FAMILIES, AND SMOKERS WILL ALSO PAY FOR IT. LET'S LOOK AT THE PUBLIC SERVICING. THERE IS A FANTASY THAT THERE IS WASTE, AS THOUGH THE GOVERNMENT INTRODUCES POLICY THAT IS BAD, AND THEY CAN COME ALONG AND SLASH EVERYONE AND CREATE A GOOD SOCIAL ECOSYSTEM. IT HAS HAPPENED IN AUCKLAND CITY, WAYNE BROWN REALISED HE COULDN'T GET EVERYTHING HE WANTED, BECAUSE IT HAS RAMIFICATIONS. ABSOLUTE NONSENSE, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THEY WILL TRY TO SLASH AS MANY PEOPLE AS THEY CAN, AND THEY WILL BE ADDED 10 YEARS DOWN THE TRACK. I AM JUST GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT I CAME ON FOR. EVERY SINGLE KAUPAPA MAORI INITIATIVE LOOKS LIKE IT HAS GONE. THERE IS A POLICY THAT DEVOLVES RESOURCE AND POWER TO IWI AND HAPU TO LOOK AFTER THEIR TAMARIKI IN STATE CARE. DAVID SEYMOUR TOLD ME THOSE ARE RACIST POLICIES IN THE GREEN ROOM. BUT WHAT WE ARE FAILING TO SEE IS THAT IN HEALTH, EDUCATION, PRESENCE AND JUSTICE, MAORI ARE SO FAR BEHIND. THEY ARE THE FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THE DOCUMENT OF TE TIRITI, WHICH IS ALSO UNDER ATTACK. UNDER DISCUSSION, ACCORDING TO DAVID SEYMOUR. HE SAYS THAT A DEBATE ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES WILL INCREASE THE MANA OF THE TREATY. ON MY GOD. IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES, GO TO THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL, WHO HAVE BEEN DEBATING AND ENQUIRING FOR THE LAST 40 YEARS. AGO AND SET IN THAT COURT. IT IS A COURT THAT IS RUN BY OUR BEST LEGAL MINDS, BY EXPORTS AND HISTORIANS, BOTH MAORI AND PAKEHA. WHAT DO YOU THINK THE EFFECTS OF THIS PART OF THE AGREEMENT WILL DO IN TERMS OF UNITING NEW ZEALAND? IT WILL PLEASE HOBSON'S PLEDGE. IS GOING TO DIVIDE NEW ZEALAND. IT IS SO DISINGENUOUS. CHRISTOPHER LUXON WANT A UNITED IS ELAND, AND HAS TALKED ABOUT THAT. HE DIDN'T WANT THIS REFERENDUM, AND NOW WE WILL HAVE A SELECT COMMITTEE PROCESS. WILL THIS REFERENDUM HAPPEN? NO, NATIONAL AND NEW ZEALAND FIRST HAVE COMMITTED TO SUPPORTING IT AS A FIRST READING IN THE HOUSE, AND THEN IT WILL GO TO THIS LX COMMITTEE, *THE SELECT COMMITTEE. AT THE END OF THE DAY, PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT THEY THINK OF IT. IS GOING TO BE UP TO CHRISTOPHER LUXON AND WINSTON PETERS WHETHER THEY WANT TO SUPPORT IT. IF IT GOES BACK TO THE NEW ZEALAND PEOPLE, THEY NEED TO CONVINCE THEM TO SUPPORT IT. IT IS THE RIGHTS OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE BEING DEBATED BY THE MAJORITY. WITH MAORI BEING 17% OF THE POPULATION, WE SUFFER FROM THE TERROR ANY OF THE MAJORITY. DON BRASH IS CALLING FOR A CITIZENS INITIATED REFERENDUM. IS HAPPENING MYSELF, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT IDEAS THEY HAVE. ANYONE WHO HAS CREATED A MAORI WARD, THOSE THINGS WILL BE SUBJECT TO A REFERENDUM. IS HAPPENING BY STEALTH. THERE ARE SOME INTERESTING BUSINESS PROPOSALS TOO. IS THERE ONE IN PARTICULAR... I THINK A MINISTER FOR SPACE IS A BRIGHT IDEA. IS BRINGS INTELLIGENT YOUNG PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO WORK ON IT. WE NEED MORE ENCOURAGEMENT OF THAT. THERE IS ALSO A MENTION OF A FOUR YEAR TERM. BECAUSE THAT'S BECOME A REALITY? I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF IT DIDN'T. I THINK THERE IS SO MUCH POLITICAL WILL, IT WOULD BE SHOCKING IF IT DIDN'T AT THIS STAGE. THEY NEED TO GET ON AND DO IT. DO NEED A REFERENDUM? I THINK MOST NEW ZEALANDERS WOULD SUPPORT IT. IN THREE-YEAR TERMS, THE FIRST YEAR IS GETTING YOUR FEET UNDER THE DESK, SECOND YEAR IS GETTING THINGS DONE, THIRD YEAR IS GETTING THE CAMPAIGN DONE. DO THINK IT IS A REFERENDUM? IT GETS QUIRKY WHEN IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE THIS. IT MIGHT BE THE SUPPORT OF 75% OF THE HOUSE. IF YOU LOOK AT EVERYTHING LABOUR HAS BROUGHT IN, THERE IS GOING TO BE SO MUCH UNWOUND. YOU SHIFT AROUND THE FURNITURE, BUT THERE IS NO FURNITURE TO SHIFT. WHAT IS THE SOLUTION TO THE 7AA. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH IWI WHO HAVE REPOSITIONED THEMSELVES, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION? IF THE MAORI HEALTH AUTHORITY IS GONE, LET'S SET SOME DATES. LET'S SEE WHEN THIS COALITION WILL REDUCE THE LIFE EXPECTANCY, SHOULD WE SAY 2024? CHRISTOPHER LUXON HAS ALWAYS SAID HE IS A KPI MAN, LOOKING AT RESULTS BASED ON TARGETS. IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THEY COME UP WITH THAT SPECIFIC DETAIL. LET'S SET SOME DATES ON THE NCEA LEVEL 2 4 MAORI BOYS. DO YOU BELIEVE CHRISTOPHER LUXON WILL BE ABLE TO HOLD THIS TOGETHER FOR THREE YEARS? I THINK HE IS HAPPY TO GIVE WAY TO THE MORE CONTROVERSIAL THINGS, THAT IN HIS HEART HE SUPPORTS, BUT DOESN'T HAVE THE POLITICAL COURAGE TO BACK. IT COULD WORK QUITE WELL, BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE HAVE EXTREME VIEWS, AND HE IS FINDING IT QUITE AN EASY MIX. THEY WERE OBVIOUSLY ARGUING, THEY HAVE THE MANDATE. AS SOMEONE WATCHING FROM AUCKLAND, IS MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I WANT TO BE A POLITICAL JOURNALIST IN THE GALLERY AGAIN. IF YOU LOOK AT THE BODY LANGUAGE OF WINSTON PETERS, HE WAS STEALING THE MAIN GUYS SHOW. I LOOK AT THAT AND THINK, DAVID SEYMOUR AND CHRISTOPHER LUXON HAVE ALWAYS HAD A RESPECTFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH MEDIA. WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME, SO MUCH TALK ABOUT, BUT I MUST LEAVE IT THERE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. A MURI I NGA WHAKATAIRANGA ` FORMER PRIME MINISTER HELEN CLARK ON WHAT MORE WE CAN DO FOR THE ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR. PLUS, MAYORAL HOPEFUL TURNED GREEN MP EFESO COLLINS AND HIS WHANAU ` HOKI MAI ANO ` WELCOME BACK. AFTER SEVEN WEEKS OF WAR IN GAZA, A DIPLOMATIC BREAKTHROUGH ` LAST NIGHT, A FOUR-DAY CEASEFIRE STARTED BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS. BOTH SIDES HAVE RELEASED HOSTAGES OVERNIGHT. HAMAS HAS AGREED TO RELEASE A TOTAL OF 50 DURING THE PAUSE IN FIGHTING, AND IN RETURN, ISRAEL WILL RELEASE 150 PALESTINIAN PRISONERS AND ALLOW UP TO 300 TRUCKS OF HUMANITARIAN AID INTO GAZA AFTER ITS CRIPPLING BLOCKADE OF FUEL, FOOD AND MEDICINE DURING THE BOMBARDMENT. THE BEGINNING OF THE PAUSE WILL BE 7am FRIDAY THE 24th OF NOVEMBER. IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET HOSTAGES OUT AND TO GET AID IN. IN ISRAELI MOTHER AND DAUGHTER HEADING FOR A CHECK-UP JUST AFTER BEING DRIVEN OUT OF GAZA AND INTO EGYPT. ISRAEL'S PART OF THE BARGAIN TODAY INCLUDED THE RELEASE OF 39 PALESTINIAN WOMEN AND TEENAGERS HELD IN ISRAELI JAILS. THIS EVENING, THE DETAINEES WERE FINALLY PUT ON BUSES AND DRIVEN FROM A PRISON INTO THE WEST BANK. IF ALL GOES ACCORDING TO PLAN, A TOTAL OF 150 WILL HAVE BEEN FREED BY MONDAY NIGHT. AND EXCELLENT DEVELOPMENT. JOINING ME NOW IS FORMER PRIME MINISTER HELEN CLARK, WHO ALSO LED THE UNITED NATIONS DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME. GOOD MORNING. THIS IS A CRITICAL TIME IN THE CONFLICT. WHAT IS THE JOB OF THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY NOW THAT THERE IS A TINY BIT OF SPACE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS? A TINY BIT OF SPACE, AND I I THINK THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY WANTS TO SEE THAT EXTEND. A FOUR-DAY PAUSE, AND RETURNING TO THAT SEEN, IS NOT GOOD. THERE WILL BE THE EXCHANGE OF PEOPLES, AND THEN WHETHER THERE CAN BE PERSUASION TO EXTEND IT, OTHERWISE, THE HORROR GOES ON. WE HAVE ALL SEEN THE PICTURES OF HAMAS' ATTACK ON ISRAEL, AND ISRAEL'S BOMBARDMENT OF GAZA. HOW DO YOU BEGIN TO NEGOTIATE ALL THAT PAIN AND HORROR? IT TAKES 2 TO WALK TOGETHER. THERE HASN'T BEEN THAT WILLINGNESS ON EITHER SIDE SINCE THE HANDSHAKE A LONG TIME AGO. THERE HAD BEEN YEARS OF RIFT. THE INTERNATIONALLY SUPPORTED AGREEMENT WAS TO MOVE TOWARDS TWO STATES. THIS MAY SEEM LIKE THE WORST TIME TO TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED HAS BEEN SO HORRIFIC THAT IT MAY BE THE TIME THAT ALL THE ACTORS COME TOGETHER, THOSE WHO HAVE SOME INFLUENCE WITH ISRAEL, THOSE WHO HAVE SOME WITH PALESTINIANS, TO SAY THAT THIS IS ENOUGH. DO YOU WANT TO SEE THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE CONTINUE FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES AND BEYOND? THAT IS NOT A FUTURE FOR ANYONE. DOES EITHER SIDE WANT PEACE? WE HAVE HAD HAMAS SAY THEY WANT TO DESTROY ISRAEL, AND ISRAEL SAYING THEY WANT TO DESTROY NOW, IS. *THEY WANT TO DESTROY HAMAS. IT IS LIKE MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION. IF BOTH SIDES WANT THAT OUTCOME, THEN THE CYCLE WILL REPEAT FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES AND BEYOND. BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE ON THE GROUND WANT ON EITHER SIDE. MOST HUMAN BEINGS WANT TO LIVE IN SECURITY. THEY WANT TO HAVE HOPES FOR THEIR FUTURE AND FAMILIES. THEY DON'T WANT TO BE SUBJECT TO PERSISTENT THREATS TO THEIR PHYSICAL SECURITY. YOU CAN'T LIVE LIKE THAT, AND SO I THINK THE PRESSURE SHOULD COME FROM BENEATH. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAS PROBABLY BEEN THE MOST EFFECTIVE IN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT DECIDING TO MOVE TOWARDS THIS RELEASE, I THINK IT HAS BEEN THE HOSTAGES FAMILIES. THEY WANT THEIR FAMILIES HOME. IT SPEAKS TO ME ABOUT ORDINARY FAMILIES WANTING A LIFE., IT IS GREAT TO SEE THE START OF THAT EXCHANGE. YOU HAVE SPOKEN AS PART OF A GROUP ABOUT BUILDING A SERIOUS PEACE PLAN, AND WRITING TO JOE BIDEN. IT IS A BIG ASK GIVEN WHERE WE HAVE BEEN OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS. THE BEGINNING WAS AT THE START OF OCTOBER, BUT IT HAS A FAR LONGER CONTEXT. OUR LETTER TO JOE BIDEN WAS TO SAY THAT NOW IS THE TIME FOR THE U.S. TO TAKE LEADERSHIP TO BRING PARTIES TOGETHER AND MAKE A TWO STATE SOLUTION. THE UNITED STATES HAS A LEVEL OF INFLUENCE WITH ISRAEL, BUT THERE ARE OTHER ACTORS THAT HAVE INFLUENCE. IT IS GOING TO TAKE A BIG COALITION OF EXTERNAL ACTORS PUSHING EVERYBODY IN THE SAME DIRECTION. EGYPT AND GULF STATES AND JORDAN ARE VERY IMPORTANT. CHINA HAS BEEN QUIET, BUT IN RECENT MONTHS, THEY AFFECTED A RECONCILIATION BETWEEN IRAN AND SAUDI ARABIA. THERE ARE OTHER ACTORS THAT HAVE SOME INFLUENCE. IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT RUSSIA HAS INFLUENCE WITH IRAN WHO HAS INFLUENCE THROUGH SYRIA AND THROUGH TO HAMAS. I THINK EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE AN END TO THIS PARTICULAR CONFLICT. SOMEHOW THERE HAS TO BE DIPLOMACY THAT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER AROUND THIS ISSUE, SAYING CAN WE REALLY GET A TWO STATE SOLUTION? EGYPT AND ISRAEL HAVE MANAGED, THEY WERE HISTORICALLY AND A SIMILAR SITUATION AND HAVE MANAGED THAT. WHAT CAN NEW ZEALAND DO? THE POLARISATION WASHES UP HERE, AS WE HAVE SEEN ANTI-SEMITISM AND ISLAM A PHOBIA. WHAT CAN WE DO DOMESTICALLY AND INTERNATIONALLY? I THINK NEW ZEALAND DID THE RIGHT THING FOR VOTING FOR THE RESOLUTION AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY. IS CALLED FOR A SUSTAINED RESOLUTION LEADING TO THE END OF HOSTILITIES. THAT IS THE LINE TO CONTINUE WITH. NEW ZEALAND IS THE LONG WAY FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, BUT WE ARE ALL AFFECTED BY DISRUPTION AND ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. IT IS DESTABILISING. NO CONFLICT THESE DAYS ON THAT SCALE IS LOCALISED IN ITS IMPACTS. WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO BE A VOICE FOR MOVEMENT TOWARDS THE CESSATION OF HOSTILITIES WHICH WOULD LEAD TO NEGOTIATIONS FOR A TWO STATE SOLUTION. HOPEFULLY IT IS HEARD AMIDST THE SPORES AND FIGHTING AMIDST THE PAUSE IN FIGHTING THANK YOU. E WHAI AKE NEI ` THE FAMED GREEN PARROT RESTAURANT IS UP FOR SALE; WELCOME TO BACKSTORY ` A JOURNEY INSIDE THE FAMILIES AND PHOTO ALBUMS OF OUR MPs. FROM SAVAI'I, SAMOA TO AUCKLAND, GREEN MP EFESO COLLINS HAS TRAVERSED TWO CULTURAL WORLDS ON HIS PATH TO PARLIAMENT. NEWSHUB NATION VISITED HIM AT HOME IN OTAHUHU TO HEAR HOW FAITH, FAMILY AND HARDSHIP SHAPED HIS BACKSTORY. WELL, I WAS BORN HERE IN NEW ZEALAND AT MIDDLEMORE HOSPITAL, SO JUST DOWN THE ROAD FROM WHERE WE LIVE ` WE LIVE IN OTAHUHU. SO, I'M THE YOUNGEST OF SIX, WHICH MEANS` IN A GOOD SAMOAN FAMILY, IT MEANS YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE VOICE, IF ANY VOICE AT ALL. MY MUM FOR MANY YEARS WORKED AT MIDDLEMORE HOSPITAL. SHE WAS THE CLEANER THERE. MY DAD WAS A PENTECOSTAL CHURCH MINISTER FOR A WHILE, WORKED LONG HOURS. DAD WAS A TAXI DRIVER AS WELL AS BEING A CHURCH MINISTER. HIS DICTION WAS BEAUTIFUL AS WELL, AND SO THAT WAS SOMETHING WE PICKED UP, BECAUSE DAD WAS ROLE-MODELLING SPEAKING GOOD ENGLISH. HE DIDN'T LIKE IT WHEN OUR WORDS WEREN'T CRISP. MY SISTER IS JUST OLDER THAN ME. HER AND I WANTED TO BE NEWSREADERS BECAUSE DAD WANTED US TO BE CRISP. YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THE HOME WORLD AND THE CHURCH WORLD, AND IT WAS VERY ORDERED. A LOT OF THINGS WE WERE DOING AT SCHOOL KIND OF CONTRADICTED WHAT WE WERE DOING AT HOME. AND I THINK FOR ALL OF US, WE WERE CHALLENGED BY THE NEW ZEALAND WORLD AND THE SAMOAN WORLD, TRYING TO GET THE BEST OF BOTH AND UNDERSTAND THAT WE WERE NAVIGATING TWO VERY DIFFERENT CULTURAL WORLDS. SO... (CHUCKLES) A BIT EMBARRASSED BY THIS PHOTO, BUT THIS IS OUR WHOLE FAMILY, AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S AFTER WHITE SUNDAY. SO WE HAVE A THING CALLED LOTU TAMAITI, WHICH MEANS CHILDREN'S CHURCH, AND EVERYONE WEARS WHITE, BUT THAT'S ME IN THE MIDDLE WITH THE TIE ON AND IN SHORTS. I'M NOT SURE WHY. AND THE REST OF MY FAMILY ` MY BROTHERS WERE BOTH TALLER THAN ME. I PLAYED SOFTBALL AND RUGBY, BUT I WAS` IN COMPARISON TO MY BROTHERS, I WAS USELESS, AND SO I NEEDED TO FIND SOMETHING FOR ME THAT I COULD BE KNOWN FOR. AND SO I DID DEBATING, AND I REMEMBER ONE DAY SOMEONE BANGING THEIR HAND ON THE DESK, AND IT SHOCKED ME. AND I THOUGHT, 'WOW, THEY'VE REALLY GOT MY ATTENTION.' AND I THOUGHT, 'OH, SO THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IN A DEBATE. 'YOU JUST BANG YOUR HAND ON YOUR DESK.' BUT I MET SO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE AT UNIVERSITY. I REALISED THAT THERE WERE LOTS OF PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T GO TO CHURCH. I REMEMBER MY FIRST METAPHYSICS LECTURE AND HER OPENING LINE WAS, 'GOD IS A WOMAN.' AND I THOUGHT, 'OH MY GOSH, WAIT TILL I TELL DAD THAT GOD'S A WOMAN.' SO I WENT HOME AND WE TALKED TO DAD. HE WAS LIKE, 'OH MY GOODNESS, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?' SO WE WERE CONFOUNDED BY ALL OF THIS. BUT FAITH'S BEEN A CORE FOR ME, AND AS I'VE EVOLVED AS A PERSON, I'VE REALISED THAT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT I HELD REALLY STRONGLY, AND NOW THOSE ARE THINGS THAT I'M FLEXIBLE WITH THAT. ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO I CAME OUT AND I WAS AGAINST MARRIAGE EQUALITY. AS MY THINKING HAS EVOLVED, I ACCEPT THAT PEOPLE LOVE IN DIFFERENT WAYS, THAT PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO LOVE THE WAY THEY CHOOSE, AND THAT'S WHY MY VIEWS ON THAT HAVE SHIFTED. YOU KNOW, I'VE APOLOGISED TO THE PASIFIKA RAINBOW COMMUNITY IN PARTICULAR, BECAUSE I KNOW PEOPLE WERE HURT BY THOSE COMMENTS. SO THIS IS MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE, FIA, AND WE HAVE BEEN MARRIED NOW FOR ABOUT 11 YEARS. WE CELEBRATED OUR ANNIVERSARY ON SUNDAY ` YESTERDAY` NO, A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO. AND SO IT'S BEEN A GREAT MARRIAGE, HASN'T IT, DEAR? (LAUGHS) HMM... (LAUGHS) I WAS REALLY DRAWN TO HIS PASSION FOR PEOPLE, BUT HE WAS REALLY DOWN TO EARTH AS WELL, SOMEBODY THAT YOU COULD SHARE WITH, TALK TO, AND THAT HE WAS HONEST. EFESO BEING IN THE PUBLIC EYE, OF COURSE WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF HIM, AND WE'RE CHEERING HIM ON, AND WE'RE ENCOURAGING HIM TO BE IN THAT SPACE. IT CAN BE QUITE CHALLENGING FOR OUR FAMILY, AND I'M QUITE VOCAL, AND SOMETIMES BEING IN THE PUBLIC EYE IS FEELING LIKE THAT VOICE IS SILENCED IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE` YOU HAVE TO LOOK AND SOUND A PARTICULAR WAY... AW. AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S HARD, AND YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT IN THE PUBLIC. YOU JUST SILENTLY TRY TO PROTECT YOUR FAMILY. OUR FAMILY'S BEEN THROUGH SO MUCH. I REMEMBER THE CHALLENGE AROUND THE DEATH THREATS. I THINK THE CHALLENGE HAS BEEN THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT... (BREATHES SHAKILY) ...THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT UP WITH. AND I THINK WE CHOOSE TO BE ADVOCATES, BUT IT'S COME AT QUITE A PERSONAL COST. AND I OFTEN THINK OF MY ELDEST DAUGHTER, KAPERIELA. AND WE SAT DOWN, AND SHE SAID, 'DAD, WHY? 'WHY WOULD PEOPLE WANT TO KILL US?' COS THEY NAMED MY FAMILY. AND FOR ME, THAT'S... I FEEL THIS HUGE SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY FAMILY. AND IT BREAKS ME THAT THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS. AND THAT'S AN EXPERIENCE THAT WE'VE MANAGED AND NAVIGATED, AND I'M GRATEFUL TO FIA AND MY GIRLS. THERE'S A LETTER HERE THAT KAPERIELA WROTE TO US ON BEHALF OF HER AND ASALEMO, OUR DAUGHTERS. AND SHE SAID, 'DAD, I'M PROUD OF YOU.' I NEVER HEARD THOSE WORDS FROM MY OWN FATHER, COS IT'S PROBABLY NOT A SAMOAN DAD THING TO DO. KNOWING THAT MY BABY IS PROUD OF ME IS ENOUGH TO KEEP GOING. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO PACIFIC ISLAND PERSON WHO MIGHT BE IN THE NEXT GOVERNMENT, SO PEOPLE ARE RELYING ON US TO SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF, SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO. THIS IS TIME TO HIT THE HAND ON THE DESK, TO THROW THE PAPERS IN THE AIR AND SAY, 'WE'RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING 'WE CAN FOR THIS COMMUNITY.' I THINK I BRING THE 'HOOD, EH? AND WHEN I SAY THE 'HOOD, I MEAN I BRING ATTITUDE, I BRING STRONG VOICE, BUT I BRING A CULTURAL RELEVANCE AND RESPECT THAT WE MIGHT NOT HAVE SEEN BEFORE. I WANT TO BRING THAT 'HOOD MENTALITY AND THAT 'HOOD HEART INTO THE PLACE, COS I'M NOT SURE THAT PEOPLE QUITE KNOW WHAT THE REAL SOUTH AUCKLAND IS LIKE, AND I THINK WE'RE PRETTY HIP, PRETTY COOL. WE'RE RELAXED, BUT WE ARE STRONG AND WE'RE BOLD, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA BRING TO PARLIAMENT. KIA PAKU WHAKATA TATAU. WE'RE BACK RIGHT AFTER THE BREAK. HOKI MAI ANO ` WELCOME BACK. EVER FANCIED OWNING A PIECE OF POLITICAL HISTORY? WELL, NOW COULD BE YOUR CHANCE. THE FAMED GREEN PARROT RESTAURANT IS UP FOR SALE AFTER ALMOST 60 YEARS. THE WELLINGTON INSTITUTION HAS SERVED PRIME MINISTERS, MOVIE STARS AND ` MOST OFTEN OF ALL ` WINSTON PETERS. HERE'S SENIOR REPORTER LAURA WALTERS. IT'S A SHAME THIS PARROT NEVER LEARNED TO TALK ` 97 YEARS OF BANTER AND BUSINESS BETWEEN THE COUNTRY'S MOST POWERFUL AND PROMINENT WOULD MAKE FOR COLOURFUL LISTENING. POLITICIANS COULD COME HERE; THEY COULD RELAX; THEY MIXED WITH THE MEDIA, MIXED WITH THE OPPOSITION, AND YOU'D HAVE A GREAT TIME. PLUS IT WAS OPEN LATE, YOU COULD SMOKE, WHICH WAS` YOU KNOW, FOR A LOT BACK THEN WAS A BIG THING, AND THE FOOD WAS FANTASTIC. FROM MULDOON AND MOORE THROUGH TO KEY AND ARDERN, THE GREEN PARROT IS AN UNOFFICIAL EXTENSION OF PARLIAMENT. IT WAS ALSO SORT OF... DISCREET, YOU KNOW? AND IT WAS SORT OF LIKE A` YOU KNOW, THE` WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? DEMILITARISED ZONE. YOU KNOW, PEOPLE` MPs WOULD COME HERE; WHATEVER SCRAPS AND ROWS THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN HAVING IN PARLIAMENT, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN HERE. JOHN KEY WALKED IN, AND HE SAID GIDDAY, WENT TO HIS SEAT; AND THEN ABOUT 10 MINUTES LATER, HE CAME BACK WITH A BOTTLE OF STEINLAGER OR WHATEVER AND SAT DOWN AND HAD A YARN FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES. HERE WAS THE PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND TALKING TO THESE GUYS, AND SOME OF THEM WERE JUST GOBSMACKED. AND THERE'S ONE PERSON MORE LIKELY TO TURN UP THAN OTHERS. YEAH, THIS IS THE NATURAL HABITAT OF THE POLITICAL CREATURE KNOWN AS WINSTONIUS PETERUS. (LAUGHTER) YOU KNOW, THIS IS` THIS IS, UH, THE NATURAL HABITAT WHERE, YOU KNOW, THAT PARTICULAR POLITICAL CREATURE LIKES TO COME AFTER DARK. PETERS AND HIS PARROT ` ONE OF THE MOST ENDURING PARTNERSHIPS IN NEW ZEALAND POLITICAL HISTORY. THE FIRST THING YOU DID WHEN YOU WALKED INTO THE GREEN PARROT WAS, 'OH, YEAH, WHO'S HERE? OH, WINSTON.' AND OF COURSE, WINSTON WAS BY FAR THE MOST FAMOUS CUSTOMER OF THEM ALL. REALLY MADE IT HIS PLACE. FANTASTIC FOOD ` THE BIGGEST MEALS YOU'VE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE. NOW HE'S BACK IN THE CAPITAL, YOU CAN BET THE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER WILL BE VISITING EVERY CHANCE HE GETS. WINSTON WOULD USUALLY SIT AT THE END OF THE TABLE RIGHT HERE, BUT HE ALSO LIKES TO MINGLE WITH ALL THE CUSTOMERS AS WELL. SOMETIMES WE LIKED TO DRAW THE CURTAINS, YOU KNOW, JUST TO GIVE WINSTON AND HIS PARTY A LITTLE BIT OF PRIVACY. GREEN PARROT HISTORY IS THE STUFF OF FOLKLORE. IT OPENED IN 1926, FAST BECOMING POPULAR AMONG DOCKWORKERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND AMERICAN SERVICEMEN DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR. IN THE 1970s, MPs STARTED POURING THROUGH THE DOOR ` AND THEY NEVER STOPPED. IT PROVIDED GOOD FOOD, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT WAS OPEN LATE. SO YOU THINK ` YOU'RE AN MP; YOU FINISH 10.30 AT NIGHT. WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GO? BUT THAT MAY CHANGE ` AFTER MORE THAN 50 YEARS, THE SAKOUFAKIS FAMILY IS SELLING UP. WHEN MY FATHER TOOK OVER THE RESTAURANT WITH MY OTHER UNCLE, ANGELO, IN 1987, I WAS 11 THEN, AND I DONNED A BOW TIE AND A WHITE SHIRT AND I SERVED THE VERY FIRST CUSTOMERS THAT CAME THROUGH. THERE'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, SWEAT, TEARS AND BLOOD SPILLED IN THE RESTAURANT, YOU KNOW? NOW THE END OF AN ERA FOR CHRIS AND HIS 83 YEAR OLD FATHER, COSTA. IT'S BEEN A ROLLERCOASTER RIDE EMOTIONALLY, ACTUALLY, AND JUST COMING ACROSS THINGS THAT BRING BACK, YOU KNOW, MEMORIES AND STUFF ` IT'S BEEN, LIKE... YEAH, VERY EMOTIONAL. AMONG THE FILES AND PHOTOS, A PIECE OF POLITICAL HISTORY. IT'S THE WINE BOX FROM THE WINE BOX INQUIRY. SO, UM... I'VE BEEN LOOKING IN OUR STOREROOM FOR IT BUT HAVEN'T TRACKED IT DOWN YET. I'M NOT TOO SURE HOW WE ENDED UP WITH IT, BUT IT'S` IT'S IN THE BUILDING. A MYSTERY FOR ANOTHER DAY. NOW, THESE WALLS CAN'T TALK, BUT FORMER POLITICIANS, PUNDITS AND WAITSTAFF SPEAK FONDLY OF A PLACE WHERE GENERATIONS OF TRUE-BLUE WELLINGTONIANS HAVE RUBBED SHOULDERS WITH PRIME MINISTERS, MOVIE STARS AND EVEN SPORTING GREATS. THERE HAVE BEEN LATE-NIGHT SINGALONGS, PROJECTILE BUTTER CUBES AND EVEN THE ODD DINE-AND-DASH. OUT THE DOOR ` GUY'S DOING A RUNNER. NOW, UNFORTUNATELY, I RECOGNISED HIM ` (CHUCKLES) HE WAS A FRIEND OF MINE. HE'S A JUDGE NOW. SHORTLY AFTER THE RUNNER CAME THE CHEF AND THE WAITER, AND THEY'RE ALL TAKING OFF DOWN THE STREET. PROBLEM WAS HE COULD NEVER COME BACK TO THE GREEN PARROT AGAIN, AND THAT WAS PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, THE WORST PUNISHMENT OF ALL. LIKE ANYWHERE THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR THIS LONG, THERE'S BEEN A BIT OF SCANDAL. I DON'T THINK THE NORMAL LAWS OF NEW ZEALAND APPLIED IN THE EARLIER DAYS IN THE GREEN PARROT. BUT YOU'LL BE HARD PRESSED TO GET THE DETAILS. WE DO HAVE A GOLDEN RULE IN HERE ` WHAT HAPPENS IN THE GREEN PARROT STAYS IN THE GREEN PARROT. AS THE SAKOUFAKIS FAMILY PREPARES TO SELL, ITS ALSO PRESERVING SOME ARTEFACTS. THIS GREEN PARROT WATER VESSEL PROBABLY DATES FROM AROUND THE 1960s. AND THIS IS THE GRUEL PLATE THAT WAS AT THE GREEN PARROT FROM AROUND 1932, AND APPARENTLY ` SO THE LEGEND GOES ` IT WAS MADE OUT OF MELTED-DOWN GUN BARRELS FROM WORLD WAR ONE. AND ANOTHER LEGEND IS STILL WORKING THE GRILL AND MINGLING WITH CUSTOMERS AFTER ALL THESE YEARS. 58 YEARS. SOMETHING LIKE THAT. HAVE TO BUY SOME BUSINESS, MAKE SOME` A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY. (LAUGHS) AND I BOUGHT IT. COSTA SAKOUFAKIS KNOWS RUNNING A RESTAURANT IS A YOUNG MAN'S GAME, BUT HE HAS NO PLANS TO FLY THE COOP. I'M GONNA MISS IT. IF` WHOEVER BUY THE PLACE, I'LL OBLIGED TO STAY. DON'T WANNA PAY. I JUST WANNA BE HERE, YOU KNOW? MAYBE WE COULD BUY IT, SIMON. THAT'S ALL FROM US FOR NOW ` FROM OUR FINAL STUDIO PROGRAMME THIS ELECTION YEAR. THANKS FOR WATCHING. NGA MIHI NUI. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEKEND AT OUR FAMOUS LIVE CHRISTMAS PARTY SHOW! 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