CAPTIONS BY LENA ERAKOVICH AND TOM CLARKE. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 TENA KOUTOU, NAU MAI HAERE MAI. WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M JACK TAME. TODAY ` THREE PARTIES, TWO DEPUTY PRIME MINISTERS ` ONE NEW COALITION GOVERNMENT. WHAT WE HAVE ACHIEVED TOGETHER, I THINK IS HISTORIC BECAUSE IT IS IN FACT THE VERY FIRST TIME IN NEW ZEALAND'S MMP HISTORY THAT WE HAVE HAD A THREE-PARTY COALITION GOVERNMENT WITH ALL PARTIES REPRESENTED IN CABINET. SHORTLY WE'LL HEAR FROM NATIONAL'S NICOLA WILLIS AND ACT LEADER DAVID SEYMOUR. AND THEN, 10 MONTHS SINCE CYCLONE GABRIELLE SMASHED THE EAST COAST, TAIRAWHITI HAS NEW TWO MPs FIGHTING TO KEEP IT ON THE MAP. WE NEED ACTION. YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD SUPPORT. WE CA'T SAY WE HAVEN'T HAD SUPPORT. WE CAN'T SAY WE HAVEN'T HAD SUPPORT. BUT WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS TO BE THE DESIGNERS BEFORE THE DELIVERERS. FIRST UP THIS MORNING ` IT HAS BEEN A PROCESSION IN PORT WAIKATO, WITH NATIONAL'S ANDREW BAYLY WINNING THE BY-ELECTION IN A LANDSLIDE. ON THE PRELIMINARY RESULTS ANNOUNCED LATE LAST NIGHT, BAYLY HAD 76% OF THE 18,000 VOTES CAST, A LONG WAY AHEAD OF THE 15% WON BY NEW ZEALAND FIRST'S CASEY COSTELLO. THOSE WERE THE ONLY TWO CANDIDATES STANDING FROM PARTIES IN PARLIAMENT, AND NO OTHER CANDIDATES MADE IT INTO DOUBLE DIGITS. BAYLY'S WIN MEANS THAT HE'LL RESIGN AS A LIST MP, AND TAKE UP THE ELECTORATE SEAT INSTEAD, WITH PARLIAMENT RISING TO 123 MPS AS A RESULT. NATIONAL'S NANCY LU WILL COME IN AS THE REPLACEMENT LIST MP. NATIONAL LEADER CHRISTOPHER LUXON IS SET TO BE SWORN IN BY THE GOVERNOR GENERAL AS NEW ZEALAND'S NEXT PRIME MINISTER, AFTER NATIONAL, ACT AND NEW ZEALAND FIRST AGREED ON COALITION DEALS TO FORM THE NEXT GOVERNMENT. ALL UP, IT WAS 41 DAYS BETWEEN ELECTION DAY AND FRIDAY, EXACTLY THREE WEEKS BETWEEN THE FINAL RESULTS AND THE TWO COALITION DEALS. I CAN'T GIVE YOU A DEADLINE. WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT THERE IS GOODWILL AND GOOD FAITH FROM ALL THREE POLITICAL PARTY LEADERS. (INTREPID BIG`BAND JAZZ MUSIC) INEVITABLY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE IN THE SAME ROOM. THEY'RE NOT EASY. THEY'RE COMPLEX. IT'S ABOUT, AFTER ALL, A COUNTRY. I'VE DONE A LOT OF NEGOTIATIONS, WHETHER IT'S BEEN` YOU KNOW, INVOLVED IN MERGERS AND ACQUISITIONS. WINSTON PETERS DIDN'T TURN UP IN WELLINGTON YESTERDAY, THE OTHER LEADERS FLYING BACK TO AUCKLAND. WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS. WELL, WE'RE TAKING OUR TIME TO GO THROUGH ALL THE DETAILS. WE'RE GETTING CLOSE. THEY'RE PROGRESSING WELL. WE'RE GETTING CLOSER. CHRISTOPHER LUXON REVEALING TO MEDIA THEY'D REACHED A DEAL... WELL, YES, BUT... ...BUT DIDN'T GIVE HIS NEW MATES THE HEADS-UP. I SUSPECT CHRIS GOT UP AND HAD ONE TOO MANY WEET-BIX, BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND HIS ENTHUSIASM. THERE'S JUST A COUPLE MORE STEPS TO GO. I WANTED TO FIND OUT FROM HIM THAT WHAT YOU SAID HE SAID WAS ACTUALLY TRUE AND I FOUND OUT IT WASN'T. ALL THREE OF US ARE DESPERATE TO GET IT SORTED. (INTREPID JAZZ MUSIC) I'VE JUST LITERALLY RUN OUT OF CLOTHES, SO I'VE GOT TO GO HOME. (LAUGHS) THIS IS CHRISTOPHER LUXON'S SHIRT. I BORROWED IT FROM HIM. (UPBEAT MUSIC) FIRSTLY, I JUST WANT TO SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE NEW ZEALAND PEOPLE AND I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND YOUR UNDERSTANDING, IN THE WAIT FOR THIS GOVERNMENT TO BE FORMED OVER THE LAST 20 DAYS. SO AFTER THE COALITION SIGNING ON FRIDAY, ALL THAT'S LEFT NOW IS FOR THE NEW GOVERNMENT TO BE SWORN IN. FOR THE NEW FINANCE MINISTER, IT MEANS A BUSY FEW WEEKS AHEAD. NICOLA WILLIS IS WITH US THIS MORNING. KIA ORA. KIA ORA. GOOD MORNING. YOU HAVE JUST HAD YOUR FIRST BRIEFING FROM TREASURY. THEY HAVE SAID THAT THERE ARE CHALLENGES AHEAD FOR OUR ECONOMY IT IS FAIR TO SAY THAT THE OUTGOING GOVERNMENT HAS LEFT US WITH SOME NASTY SURPRISES, THERE ARE FISCAL RISKS THAT COULD COST THE GOVERNMENT A LOT OF MONEY IF WE DO NOT MANAGE THEM WELL. THERE ARE ALSO FISCAL CLIFFS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ONGOING - PROGRAMS THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT FUNDED FOR THE FUTURE. WHERE ARE THOSE SURPRISES SPECIFICALLY? THERE ARE SOME AREAS OF SPENDING THAT THEY HAVE BECOME BLOWOUTS - I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO BE BRIEFED AND MY TASK OVER THE COMING WEEKS IS TO BE BRIEFED IN DEEPER DETAIL AND I WILL WORK TO BE TRANSPARENT AS MUCH AS I CAN ABOUT THE RISKS. HOW MUCH IS THIS GOING TO AFFECT YOUR BOTTOM LINE? IF YOU LOOK AT EXPENDITURE PROJECTIONS, REVENUE PROJECTIONS, ARE WE TALKING HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS? WE HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE THAT AT THE HALF YEAR FISCAL UPDATE? YOU HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY NOW. WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY BEFORE CHRISTMAS WITH A MINI BUDGET, WE WILL LET NEW ZEALANDERS KNOW AND WHAT OUR RESPONSE WILL BE TO THOSE CONDITIONS, AND OUR PRIORITIES. YOU HAVE A VERY SMALL WINDOW TO GET THAT SORTED. WE WILL WORK VERY HARD OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS TO SEE IF THERE ARE SOME SAVINGS AND GET THAT INTO THE MINI BUDGET, I AM CONSCIOUS THAT TIME IS LIMITED AND WE ARE TAKING PROPER ADVICE -� AND EMPHASIS ON THE WORD MINI. ARE THERE ANY SURPRISES THAT REALLY TOOK YOU BACK, THAT YOU WEREN'T REALLY EXPECTING? YES, AND I WILL HAVE MORE TO SAY ABOUT THAT IN THE COMING DAYS. YOU ARE NOW SET TO BE INTRODUCING RESIDENTIAL DEDUCTIBILITY FOR LANDLORDS. HOW IS THAT GOING TO IMPACT YOUR REVENUE? WE HAD CAMPAIGNED ON IT STAYING AT 15% FROM APRIL - 50% FROM APRIL - WE AGREED WITH ACT TO LIFT THAT TO 60% WE AGREED WITH ACT TO LIFT THAT TO 60% AND WE HAVE RAISED IT TO 80. WE NEED TO TAKE DETAILED ADVICE BUT WE THINK THOSE COSTINGS ARE MANAGEABLE WITHIN OUR BROAD FISCAL PLAN WHICH HAS SIGNIFICANT BUFFERS IN IT. THAT MEANS YOU MISS OUT ON MORE THAN $700 MILLION, SO TO PAY FOR THE REVENUE SHORTAGE YOU ARE GOING TO SCRAP CHANGES TO WORKING FOR FAMILIES, REVIEW A TAX WHICH YOU CAMPAIGNED AGAINST, AND SMOKE-FREE WILL IMPROVE YOUR EXCISE REVENUE. WILL YOU STILL NEED TO BORROW? IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT WE LEFT SIGNIFICANT BUFFERS OVER THE FORECAST PERIOD. WE PUT TOGETHER A PLAN BASING IT ON OPERATING ALLOWANCES BUT LEFT BUFFERS OF UNSPENT MONEY. APPROACHING OUR TAX PLAN, ALL OF THE THREE PARTIES IN THE COALITION KNOW THAT WE NEED TO REDUCE THE COST OF LIVING, KNOW THAT NEW ZEALANDERS NEED TO KEEP MORE OF WHAT THEY EARN, WE WANT TO DELIVER ON TAX REDUCTION BUT DO THAT IN A WAY THAT MAINTAINS OUR STRENGTH. DO YOU ACCEPT THAT YOUR CHANGES TO SMOKE-FREE WILL MEAN MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE? I WANT TO TAKE YOU BACK, IT IS NOT ABOUT TAX REVENUE. THE LOGIC FROM FROM NEW ZEALAND FIRST AND ACT WITH IT THOUGH CHANGES TO THOSE LAWS WOULD HAVE A COUPLE OF NASTY SIDE-EFFECTS, ONE, A BIG BLACK MARKET FOR TOBACCO. AD BY VASTLY REDUCING THE NUMBER OF RETAIL OUTLETS TO 600 THAT WE COULD SEE A HUGE INCREASE IN RETAIL CRIME, PUTTING PEOPLE IN DANGER. THEIR CONCERNS WERE AROUND REGULATION YOU HAVE DAVID ON THE SHOW LATER, I INVITE YOU TO TALK MORE ABOUT THAT. WE ARE NOT TO PROCEED WITH THE FURTHER CHANGES THE GOVERNMENT WAS PLANNING. THAT DOESN'T GO TO MY QUESTION, DO YOU ACCEPT MORE PEOPLE WILL DIE? I HAVE NOT SEEN ANALYSIS OF THAT. THEY STUDY THE CHANGES BEFORE IT WAS INTRODUCED, AT THE MOMENT 5000 PEOPLE A YEAR DIE FROM SMOKING RELATED DISEASE, AND THE NUMBERS BEFORE THESE CHANGES SUGGESTED THEY WOULD SAVE ABOUT 8000 LIVES A YEAR. THERE IS AN ONGOING COMMITMENT FROM THIS GOVERNMENT TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SMOKING AND STOP PEOPLE FROM SMOKING IN THE FIRST PLACE AND TO HELP PEOPLE TO QUIT, YOU WILL SEE THAT IN THE WAY THAT DR SHANE RETI GOES ABOUT HIS HEALTH LEADERSHIP. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS DROPPED SMOKING RATES SIGNIFICANTLY AS VAPING, I DON'T WANT MY 13 YEAR OLD TAKING UP VAPING, BUT IT HAS HELPEXD SOME PEOPLE. I WOULD BE WORRIED IF WE WERE GOING BACKWARDS FROM WHERE THE LAW CURRENTLY IS. THE LAW CURRENTLY MAKES SMOKES VERY EXPENSIVE SO IT IS HARD TO OBTAIN, THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT HEALTH WARNINGS AND SHOPS, ACCESS IS RESTRICTED. BUT OUR LAWS WERE WORLD LEADING. THERE IS NO PROOF OR EVIDENCE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD THE EFFECT THEY WERE PROMISED. SO NO MORAL RESERVATION? MORALLY, I WANT FEWER PEOPLE SMOKING AND I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP THAT GOAL IN MIND. A BIG MONEY HOSE SLOSHING AROUND ` HOW WILL YOUR SYSTEM BE DIFFERENT? WE ARE LOOKING FOR FUNDING FOR LONG-TERM INFRASTRUCTURE ASSETS THAT ARE DESIGNED TO BE THERE FOR A LONG TIME INTO THE FUTURE - THESE ARE LONG HELD THINGS. WE CAN LEARN LESSONS FROM THE PGF TO TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE GOOD ACCOUNT TO ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISMS TO MAKE SURE WE ARE DELIVERING RESULTS. WHAT WERE YOUR CONCERNS? THE AUDITOR GENERAL LOOKED INTO THE PGF AND THOUGHT THERE WERE NOT ENOUGH MECHANISMS OF ACCOUNTABILITY. THE MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE IS CHRIS BISHOP AND I WOULD EXPECT THEM TO BE WORKING ALONGSIDE SHANE JONES. WILL RACING PROJECTS BE ELIGIBLE? I WOULD BE EXPECTING REGIONAL PROJECTS, ROADS AND THE LIKE. A SYNTHETIC RACETRACK WON 10.5 MILLION. WITH THAT BE A TYPE OF ASSET? THAT WOULD BE SEEM UNLIKELY AT FIRST GLANCE BUT WE HAVE NOT SET UP THE CRITERIA YET. TO URGENTLY EXPAND A UDIT TAX CAPACITY - HOW MUCH. I REALLY LIKE THE SUGGESTION FROM NEW ZEALAND FIRST WE ARE COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD HAVE HAVE PUT MORE MONEY INTO AUDITING, THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OPEN UP MORE MONEY, IF WE CAN BE BEEF UP OUR AUDITING FUNCTION TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS, THAT IS A GREAT THING. WILL YOU BE TARGETING ONE GROUP IN PARTICULAR? WE HAVE NOT HAD A DISCUSSION, I WOULD BE TARGETING THE AREA THAT WE HAVE MONEY IS BEING LOST MOST RIGHT NOW. EVERY DOLLAR IS BEING MISS OUT FOR SCHOOLS AND KIWIS. WILL BE TAKING ADVICE ` I AM SURE THAT THE INLAND REVENUE DEPARTMENT HAVE SOME IDEAS. IS ONLY WE HAD SOME MORE RESOURCES, WE WOULD BE TARGETING. WILL IT BE INFORMED BY DAVID PARKER'S STUDY INTO HIGH NET INDIVIDUALS? I AM NOT SURE THAT THERE IS ANY CORRELATION BETWEEN THOSE TWO THINGS. I AM DELIGHTED TO HAVE THE ROLE ` I VIEW CLIMATE CHANGE IS THE MOST SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGE OF OUR AGE, BUT ALSO A SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC CHALLENGE. WE NEED TO GET CARBON OUT OF OUR ECONOMY AND PREPARE FOR RISKS SO THERE ARE MASSIVE FINANCIAL IMPLICATIONS. OUR CLIMATE CHANGE MINISTER, IS EXTREMELY ASTUTE AND WISE BUT BY ME BEING AN ASSOCIATE, I CAN MAKE SURE IT IS BEING THOUGHT ABOUT AT THE CABINET TABLE. WHY NOT IN THE CABINET, IF IT IS IS IMPORTANT AND CRITICAL AS YOU SAY? JAMES SHAW DEMONSTRATED CAN BE LEAD EFFECTIVELY OUTSIDE OF CABINET. SIMON WATTS WILL APPROACH IT DIFFERENTLY BUT I AM SURE HE WILL DO A GREAT JOB. I THINK JAMES SHAW KNEW HIS STUFF. THERE IS NO RISE IN THE RETIREMENT AGE, AND KNOW THAT IS A REALLY LONG-TERM THING, BUT BUT I FUTURE GOVERNMENT WILL HAD TO SPEND SIGNIFICANTLY MORE ON SUPERANNUATION. TO WHAT DEGREE DOES IS INFLUENCE YOUR DECISIONS IN COMING WEEKS? THE BEST ADVICE I HAD, WAS THAT AS YOU COME IN, AS A MINISTER, YOU WILL HAVE A RUSH OF DECISIONS, BUT ALWAYS TAKE YOUR TIME. I WILL ALWAYS DO THAT, I HAVE THE SOCIAL INVESTMENT PORTFOLIO ALSO - I WILL BE LOOKING AT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT CAN INVEST IN TO PREVENT PEOPLE FULFILLING THEIR POTENTIAL? HOW CAN WE BE CLEVER ABOUT INVESTING? WHEN PEOPLE DO BADLY, THAT COMES ACROSS TO US ALL. LOUISE UPSTON IS THE SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT MINISTER SO SHE WILL BE OVERSEEING THE SOCIAL SECURITY AND WELFARE SYSTEM. PART OF HER WORK WILL BE TAKING A SOCIAL INVESTMENT APPROACH TO SEE WHAT INTERVENTIONS WILL HELP. BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT WHAT WE DO IN EDUCATION, AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, ABOUT WHAT WE DO IN THE LAW AND ORDER AREA. SO ALL OF OUR MINISTERS WILL BE TASKED WILL BE TAKING SOCIAL INVESTMENT MINDSET. I DO WANT TO SHOW SOME COMPASSION, IT MUST BE HARD TO READ IN A COALITION AGREEMENT THAT YOUR ORGANISATION IS BEING DISESTABLISHED. IT WASN'T ANYTHING THAT WAS ACTUALLY CAMPAIGNED ON. I DON'T THINK IT WAS BUT WE HAVE A VERY STRONG MANDATE FROM NEW ZEALANDERS TO LOOK ACROSS PUBLIC SERVICES THAT ARE NOT ADDING VALUE, AND REDEPLOYING THOSE RESOURCES. WHAT ARE WE LOOKING LIKE IN TERMS OF JOB LOSSES ACROSS THE PUBLIC SECTOR? YOU IDENTIFIED CUTS OF OVER 6%, BUT THERE WAS NO SPECIFICITY IN THE DEAL WITH ACT. WE NOW NEED TO DO IS CREATE A PROGRAM OF REDUCTION - WE INHERITED UNFINISHED WORK, AND REDUCING CONSULTANCY. WE WILL BRING THAT TOGETHER AND SET TARGETS FOR INDIVIDUAL AGENCIES. WE WILL BE INFORMED BY LOOKING AT THE DATA TO TO FIND THE AGENCY THAT REALLY HAS GROWN ITS HEADCOUNT - BUT I DON'T HAVE A HEADCOUNT TARGET. WHAT I AM LOOKING AT IS A LONG-TERM SUSTAINABLE SAVINGS SO WE CAN HAVE A TIDY SET OF BOOKS. SOON TO BE FINANCE MINISTER NICHOLAS. THANK YOU. AFTER THE BREAK, THE SOONISH-TO-BE DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ` DAVID SEYMOUR ON THE DEAL AND HIS IMMEDIATE PLANS IN GOVERNMENT. ACT LEADER DAVID SEYMOUR IS SET TO BECOME THE MINISTER FOR REGULATION, BEFORE TAKING THE REINS AS DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE TERM. KIA ORA, GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING, JACK. TALKING ABOUT THE NEGOTIATIONS, AT WHAT POINT IN THE PROCESS DID YOU SEE NEW ZEALAND FIRST DEAL? IT MUST HAVE BEEN AROUND ABOUT A WEEK AGO WHEN WE SAT DOWN. WE HAD PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT DETAILS WHICH WE WOULD SUPPORT, SO IT IS PROBABLY A COUPLE OF WEEKS THAT WE HAVE BEEN TOGETHER. DID YOU AND NEW ZEALAND FIRST EACH HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BLOCK THINGS THAT THE OTHER PARTY WANTED IN THEIR RESPECTIVE DEALS WITH NATIONAL? BOTH OF US ENTERED INTO THE NEGOTIATIONS CONSCIOUS THAT ULTIMATELY WE WOULD HAVE TO FORM A GOVERNMENT WITH THREE PARTIES THAT SUPPORTED ONE AGENDA, SO I'M SURE THAT THEY WERE PROPERLY THINGS THAT THEY MAY HAVE THOUGHT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN HARD TO GET PAST ACTS AND VICE VERSA, SO THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A PRETTY COHERENT AGENDA THAT I THINK ALL PARTIES CAN SUPPORT FOR THREE YEARS. I'M SURE MANY HAVE NOTED THE IRONY IN INTRODUCING A NEW MINISTER RESPONSIBLE FOR CUTTING GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS ` HOW DO YOU SEE THAT JOB WORKING?> IF YOU SUPPLY WITH FINANCE, THEY GOVERN HIS MONEY, THE QUALITY OF THE SPENDING, THAT HAS A MASSIVE IMPACT ON NEW ZEALAND'S WELL-BEING, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE IN GOVERNMENT THAT DOES THAT ROLE. IS ALSO HAVING A MASSIVE IMPACT ON OUR PRODUCTIVITY. IT IS PEOPLE THAT WE TALK TO SAY THAT THEY SPEND MORE TIME GETTING PERMISSION TO BUILD SOMETHING, THAT IS TEACHERS SAYING THAT THEY WANT TO HELP KIDS, BUT THEY SPEND MORE TIME TICKING BOXES. ARE VIEW IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS SOMEBODY WHO IS ACTUALLY TAKING THE LEAD ON WHAT RULES ARE NECESSARY, BECAUSE SOME ARE, WHAT DO GOOD ONES LOOK LIKE, HAVE WE WEIGHED UP THE COSTS AND BENEFITS OF THE RULE, SO ULTIMATELY THAT SUPPLY RULEMAKING THAT AGREEMENT IMPOSES ON PEOPLE IS BETTER. THIS IS CRITICAL FOR PRODUCTIVITY. IT COSTS MORE TO DO STUFF, AND PEOPLE SAY IT IS TOO HARD TO DO IT, ANOTHER THREE, KIDS GROW UP IN IN A CULTURE SAYING THAT THEY CANNOT DO IT. WE SAY THAT WE HAVE A CAN-DO ATTITUDE, BUT WE ARE TERRIFIED OF FILLING IN BOXES ALL THE TIME. WE HAVE GOT TO RAISE PROCLIVITIES, WE GOT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT GOOD RULEMAKING REQUIRES. THE GOVERNMENT HAS A TREASURY AND A GOVERNING OF FINANCE FOR SPENDING, I THINK IT NEEDS AN EQUIVALENT FOR REGULATING. TALK TO IS HOW YOU SEE THAT WORKING IN TERMS OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH OTHER MINISTERS, BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING INTO THEIR PORTFOLIOS AND HIGHLIGHT AREAS THAT NEED TO BE REGULATED. I DON'T SEE IT AS TENSION. I SEE IT AS CONSTRUCTIVE. I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE ANY MINISTER IN THE GOVERNMENT THAT WANTS TO MAKE BAD REGULATIONS AND SLOW DOWN NEW ZEALAND'S PRODUCTIVITY. WE SEE IT AS HOW CAN WE SHOW WHAT ARE GOOD WAYS TO MAKE RULES. WHAT ARE SOME RULES THAT THEY MAY HAVE INHERITED FROM PREVIOUS MINISTERS THAT THEY WOULDN'T DO AGAIN, AND HOW CAN WE ENSURE THAT WE ACHIEVE THE POLICY OBJECTIVE SO THAT EVERYBODY GETS ON WELL, SO THAT CONFLICTS BETWEEN PEOPLE AND PEOPLE'S PROPERTIES ARE MITIGATED, BUT WE DON'T SPEND MORE TIME FILLING OUT FORMS. FOR THE MINSTER FOR REGULATION BE ADVOCATING FOR MORE REGULATION? THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT IS GOOD, FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE HAD NO RULES AROUND FISHING, EVERYBODY WOULD GO OUT AND CATCH ALL OF THE FISH THIS SEASON AND THEN NEXT SEASON, THEY WOULD WONDER WHY THERE WAS NO FISH. SO THAT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE. IF WE THINK OF EXAMPLES AROUND CRIME, WE HAVE A LOT OF STRUCTURAL SURROUND CRIME BECAUSE IF WE DIDN'T, IT WOULD BE SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST, AND WE WON'T HAVE THE SOCIETY THAT WE DO. THERE IS QUITE A NUMBER ONCE YOU START GOING INTO IT, WHERE IT IS ACTUALLY NECESSARY. WOULD YOU ADVOCATE FOR INCREASING REGULATION? THERE WILL SOMETIMES BE TIMES WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GOING TO SAY, ' THERE IS A MARKET FAILURE,' AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS WHEN EVERYONE DOES THEIR BEST, THE RESULT IS ACTUALLY WORST. FISHING IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF THAT. SO WE MIGHT SAY ACTUALLY, MAKING A RULE HERE WILL ALLOW EVERYBODY TO BE UNDER BETTER OFF. BUT I SUSPECT GIVEN THE WAY THINGS ARE GONE, THERE IS A LOTS OF BAGGY REGULATION THAT NEEDS TO BE GOTTEN RID OF. NO SPECIFICITY IN THE DEAL AS TO THE NUMBER OF JOB CUTS ` THE TOTAL NUMBER ` WHAT IS YOUR EXPECTATION? IF YOU LOOK AT THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN ACT AND NATIONAL, THERE IS SOME WORDING AROUND STARTING AROUND THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN 2017, BUT THEN WE WOULD ADJUST THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IN EDUCATION , THERE IS A LOT MORE STUDENTS THAN THERE WERE IN 2017, SO YOU HAVE TO ALLOW FOR THAT. THERE ARE A LOT MORE PEOPLE TO POLICE AS WELL. SO ALLOWING FOR NATURAL GROWTH, YOU WOULD EXPECT TO STILL REDUCE QUITE SIGNIFICANTLY IN MANY AREAS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE BACK OFFICE. YOU GOT TO ASK YOURSELF, ARE WE GETTING A PROPORTIONATELY BETTER DEAL FOR HAVING DONE THAT? SPECIFICITY A NUMBER, WHAT WOULD BE A BALLPARK TOTAL FIGURE? IF YOU TAKE THE ABSOLUTE RAW APPROACH OF GOING BACK TO 2017, THEN YOU GET 15,000. AND YOU ADJUST THAT? AND THEN YOU DO THE ADJUSTMENTS, AND YOU TAKE ABOUT 1/3 OF THAT OFF, AND INEVITABLY THERE IS GOING TO BE SPECIAL CASES WHEN WE SAY THAT WE WANT THE COVENANT TO DO MORE. YOUR 15,000 IS YOUR ABSOLUTE TOP, AND YOU KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO COME DOWN. SO YOU TAKE 1/3 TO 10,000, AND YOU ARE A FEW THOUSAND AFTER THAT, SO WHAT 8000 A BALLPARK? THAT'S NOT A BAD FIGURE, BUT WE ARE JUST HAVING A TALK ABOUT IT. I JUST WANT TO GET A GOOD STARE. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT AS A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE. WE HAVEN'T BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT AS THE AMOUNT OF ADVICE THAT YOU CAN GET FROM EACH CHIEF EXECUTIVE FROM THE TREASURY AND ALL OF THE OTHER ADVISERS FROM GOVERNMENT, SO WE CAN SIT HERE AND BALLPARK IT, AS YOU SAY, AND WE HAVE DONE THAT, BUT I WOULDN'T WANT TO STAND BY THAT BEFORE YOU HAVE SEEN WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE IN EACH DEPARTMENT, AND ALSO THE CHANGES IN POPULATION. THERE WILL BE NO REFERENDUM AT THIS STAGE ON OF THE TREATY PRINCIPLES, BUT NATIONAL WILL SUPPORT A BILL BASED ON A NEW POLICY THROUGH TO SELECT COMMITTEE, WHAT DO YOU NEED TO CONVINCE CHRISTOPHER LUXON ABOUT? WE UNDERSTAND THE TREATY TODAY THROUGH A LENS BACK TO 1840, AND YET THOSE PRINCIPLES, THAT LENS, HAVE NEVER BEEN PROPERLY DEFINED IN ACCORDANCE TO DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES. IT HAS BEEN BY THE COURT, TRIBUNAL, THE POPPY SERVICE HAS HAD A GO, BUT IT HAS NEVER BEEN DEMOCRATICALLY ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE OF THE REPRESENTATIVES. WE HAVE STARTED THAT PROCESS. I BELIEVE IT WILL BE POSITIVE. I THINK WE WILL WIN THAT ARGUMENT. I THINK THE COALITION WILL WANT TO TAKE IT FURTHER FORWARD. SO THEY ARE COMMITTED TO SUPPORT IT TO SELECT COMMITTEE STAGE, THEN IT GOES TO A SECOND READING, AT THAT POINT, MPS WILL BE WHIPPED, SO YOU EXPECT MPS TO VOTE ON PARTY LINES? WE WOULD EXPECT THAT. YOU MIGHT DECIDE THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO VOTE ON IT RIGHT NOW. I THINK THAT THIS ISSUE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MAKING IT A MATTER OF POLITICS. IT IS A QUESTION OF WHAT DOES OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENT MEAN? DOES IT MEAN THAT WE ARE INVITED INTO TWO PEOPLES, OR DOES IT MEAN THAT WE ARE CITIZENS OF NEWS REEL AND WITH THE SAME RIGHTS? THIS IS A BIG QUESTION. HASN'T BEEN DEBATED PROPERLY NEW ZEALAND. NOW WILL BE, AND I BELIEVE IT WILL HAVE A POSITIVE TONE TO IT THAT WILL ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE ON FURTHER. WILL REWRITING THE FIREARMS ACT INCREASE ACCESS TO LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS TO MMSRs? THAT TERM WILL DISAPPEAR, IT WAS A CONCOCTION THAT DIDN'T ACCURATELY SURVIVE ANY TYPE OF FIREARM. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT GOING TO A GRADUATED SYSTEM. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE TRAGEDY IN CHRISTCHURCH, A GUY GOT OFF THE PLANE, GOT HIS LICENCE, BOUGHT A POWERFUL AR 15, ON HIS A CATEGORY LICENCE, THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED. WHAT WE PROPOSE IS THAT YOU HAVE A PERIOD OF GRADUATIONS, NOT UNLIKE YOU GET YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE, BUT OVER A LONGER TIME PERIOD, YOU GET YOUR FIRST LICENCE, AND THEN IF YOU HAVE A GOOD RECORD, YOU CAN GRADUATE, WILL THAT ALLOW PEOPLE TO HAVE MORE POWERFUL FIREARMS OVER TIME? YES. BUT WE HAVE HAD DISCUSSION AT THIS TABLE BEFORE, YOU HAVE GOT TO REMEMBER THAT THERE IS ABOUT 6000 PEOPLE THAT CAN HAVE SEMIAUTOMATIC FIREARMS NOW. I DON'T IMAGINE THAT WILL CHANGE AT A GREAT LENGTH. WHAT WILL BE THE TIME PERIOD UNDER THE NEW FIREARM'S ACT BETWEEN GETTING YOUR VERY FIRST LICENCE AND BEING ABLE TO ACCESS AND AR 15 STYLE RIFLE? THAT WOULD DEPEND ON IF YOU HAD A SPECIAL PURPOSE FOR HAVING ONE, SO POTENTIALLY NEVER. IT IS NOT AN EASY ANSWER TO GIVE, BECAUSE TO SOME EXTENT, YOU WOULD BE GRANDFATHERING THE LICENCES IF THE PERSON BEFORE THE . WHAT WOULD BE THE EARLIEST AMOUNT OF TIME? IF YOU'RE SOMEBODY THAT HAS ONE OF THOSE FIREARMS RIGHT NOW, THEN YOU WOULD CONTINUE TO HAVE ONE. BUT IF YOU ARE SOMEONE THAT HAS NO FIREARMS LICENCE, WHAT WOULD BE THE SHORTEST PERIOD OF TIME? IF YOU HAVE NEVER HAD ONE BEFORE, I DON'T WANT TO ANSWER THAT BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS STILL BEING WORKED THROUGH, AND WILL HAVE TO BE WORKED AS A MATTER OF POLICY, BUT IN THE DRAFT LEGISLATION PRIOR TO THE ELECTION, I BELIEVE THERE WAS ABOUT FIVE YEARS OF GRADUATION BEFORE YOU GOT TO BE TOP-LEVEL. YOU WILL UPDATE THE MODEL OF PHARMAC, TAKE PATIENT VOICES INTO ACCOUNT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THERE HAS BEEN A SIEGE MENTALITY. I'VE SEEN EMAILS. I WHENEVER I HAVE HAD ORGANISATIONS THAT ADVOCATE FOR PATIENTS, THEY HAVE JUDICIALLY FOUND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO GET A HEARING. HOWEVER, PATIENTS CAN OFTEN GIVE QUITE VALUABLE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THE FUNDING OF A PHARMACEUTICAL OR TREATMENT OR DEVICE WOULD HELP THEM, AND OFTEN, THAT INFORMATION IS USEFUL FOR THE DECISION-MAKING OF PHARMAC. IN THE UK, IT IS MORE NORMAL TO LISTEN TO THE PATIENTS MORE. PHARMCA HAS THE ROLE OF MAXIMISING. YOU WOULD GIVE MORE POWER TO LOBBYISTS, RIGHT? I DON'T THINK SO. A LOT OF LOBBYISTS AND PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES SUPPORT THESE PATIENT GROUPS FINANCIALLY. THERE HAS BEEN SOME ARGUMENT ABOUT THAT. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW? MY VIEW IS THAT THERE IS NOT AS MUCH CROSSOVER AS SOME PEOPLE HAVE ACCUSED THEM OF. MY VIEW IS THAT LOBBYING IN ITSELF IS NOT A BAD THING SO LONG AS YOU IDLE TO HAVE CARDS ON THE TABLE AND UNDERSTAND WHETHER OR NOT THE PERSON IS A GOOD FAITH ACTOR. ONE EXAMPLE IS THAT I HAVE BEEN LOBBIED BY ELECTRICITY NETWORK OPERATORS. , THAT IS NATURALLY QUITE USEFUL, EVEN AS A NITRO ENGINEER, TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND HOW THOSE WORK. GETTING PHARMACEUTICAL COMMITTEE SUPPORTING A PATIENT SUPPORT GROUP, THAT IS A STRAIGHT LINE. IT IS NOT. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ABLE TO GARNER INFORMATION AND GIVING SOMEONE INFLUENCE. IT MAY WELL SOUND LIKE THAT, HOWEVER, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO GIVE FEEDBACK FROM THE EFFECTS OF THOSE GROUPS. ULTIMATELY, WHILE PATIENT GROUPS HAVE VALUABLE INFORMATION, OBVIOUSLY, PATIENT GROUPS QUITE UNDERSTANDABLY WOULD LIKE SOME THINGS TO BE FUNDED. YOUR DEAL SAYS THAT PHARMAC WILL HAVE A PRODUCTIVITY FOCUS, DOES NOT MEAN THAT WITHIN THEIR ASSESSMENT, THE LIFE THAT SOMEONE WHO CAN WORK IS MORE VALUABLE THAN THE LIFE OF SOMEONE WHO CANNOT? IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT AT ALL. IT MEANS THAT IF FUNDING A PHARMACEUTICAL WOULD MEAN THAT A PERSON COULD NOT NEED MORE OPERATIONS THAT WOULD COST ELSEWHERE, IT IS LIKE GETTING SOME THING FOR FREE FROM THE TAXPAYER'S POINT OF VIEW. IF FUNDING A PHARMACEUTICAL MEANT THAT A PERSON WOULD GO AND WORK AND PAY TAX AND INCREASE THE MONEY AVAILABLE FUNDING, AGAIN, THAT MEANS THAT MORE PEOPLE CAN HAVE MORE. SO IT IS NOT THE CASE THAT THEIR LIFE IS LESS VALUABLE; IT IS THE QUESTION OF THE RIVER LTD TAXPAYER DOLLARS WE HAVE, WE CAN FUND AS MANY PHARMACEUTICALS AS POSSIBLE AND MAKE MORE LIVES MORE VALUABLE. YOU WANT THE RESERVE BANK'S REMIT TO SPECIFY TIME TARGETS FOR REDUCING INFLATION - WHAT SHOULD THOSE TARGETS BE, OR ARE THEY STAGGERED? COULD BE STAGGERED TARGETS. IF I RECALL THE FIRST POLICY TARGETS AGREEMENT BACK IN 1990, IT SAID GET INFLATION DOWN BETWEEN 0 TO 2% BY THE THIRD QUARTER OF 1992 OR YOU WILL BE FIRED, AND THE RESERVE BANK AT THE TIME ACHIEVE THAT. SINCE THAT TIME, WE HAVE STARTED THE SAME THING, WE SAID GET DOWN IN THE MEDIUM-TERM. I ASKED JACINDA ARDERN WHAT THAT MEANT, AND SHE DID NOT KNOW. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN UNDER THIS DEAL? UNDER THE NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT BETWEEN ACT AND NATIONAL, IT MEANS THAT THE FINANCE MINISTER WILL AT THE VERY LEAST INVESTIGATE WHETHER IT WILL BE BETTER TO GO BACK TO SPECIFIC TARGETING. WE ARE QUITE OPEN TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THEY WILL COME BACK WITH GOOD ARGUMENT ABOUT WHY THAT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, BUT THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE INVESTIGATED. WHEN YOU SAY SPECIFIC TARGETING, DO YOU HAVE ONE TARGET, OR DO YOU SUPPORT A STAGGERED TARGET APPROACH? MIGHT BE GOOD REASONS TO DO EITHER. RIGHT NOW WE HAVE GOT NO SPECIFIC TARGET. HAVING ONE OR MULTIPLE SPECIFIC TARGETS WOULD BE A LOT BETTER THAN GETTING COST OF LIVING UNDER CONTROL AT SOME POINT IN THE MEDIUM TERM ` THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE HURTING SO MUCH, BECAUSE AS A COUNTRY, WE HAVE TAKEN OUR EYE OFF THE BALL. ALL TERTIARY SITUATIONS RECEIVING COMMON FUNDING WILL HAVE TO COMMIT TO A FREEDOM OF SPEECH POLICY, WHAT WOULD THAT POLICY BE? PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE AN OPINION, AND YOU CANNOT SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE SUFFERED EMOTIONAL HARM, ANOTHER PERSON'S RIGHT TO SPEAK IS LOST. YOU CANNOT SAY THAT A PERSON IS UNABLE TO COMMENT TO A CAMPUS AND EXPRESS THEIR VIEWS PURELY BECAUSE YOU FEEL THAT IT WILL HARM YOUR FEELINGS. I THINK THAT ONE OF THE BIGGER PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE AS A SOCIETY IS THAT PEOPLE ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT BEING OFFENDED, PEOPLE ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT ANYTHING GOING WRONG, THAT WE BECOME TOTALLY RISK AVERSE AND FRAGILE, AND WE FAIL TO SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEMS, WHICH ACTUALLY LEADS TO GREATER HARM IN THE LONG TERM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. CONGRATULATIONS. DAVID SEYMOUR, SEEM TO BE THE MINISTER FOR REGULATION. IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT Q+A TEAM, PLEASE, KORERO MAI. THESE ARE OUR MAIN PLATFORMS ` HIT US UP ON EMAIL, ON X OR ON FACEBOOK. NEXT ` WEATHER WARNINGS HAVE BEEN IN PLACE OVERNIGHT FOR THE NORTH ISLAND'S BATTERED EAST COAST. WHAT WILL THE NEW GOVERNMENT AND TWO NEW LOCAL MPS 2023 HAS BEEN SUCH A BIG YEAR THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO FORGET IT BEGAN WITH CYCLONE HALE, AND THEN CYCLONE GABRIELLE. WHEN GABRIELLE HIT, CAUSING SO MUCH LOSS AND DAMAGE, THE GISBORNE TAIRAWHITI REGION HAD TWO SENIOR MPS, BOTH IN GOVERNMENT ` MEKA WHAITIRI IN IKAROA-RAWHITI AND KIRITAPU ALLAN IN THE EAST COAST ELECTORATE. BOTH ARE NOW GONE. THAT LEAVES A REGION IN DESPERATE NEED OF POWERFUL REPRESENTATION WITH TWO NEW MPS ` LABOUR'S CUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL IN IKAROA-RAWHITI AND NATIONAL'S DANA KIRKPATRICK IN EAST COAST. THEY'RE NEW, THEY HAVE VERY LITTLE POWER, BUT THEY'RE DETERMINED TO PERSUADE THE INCOMING GOVERNMENT TO LOOK EAST. JOHN CAMPBELL WITH THE POLITICS OF KEEPING TAIRAWHITI ON THE MAP. 150K NORTHEAST OF GISBORNE, IN THE SPACE AND LIGHT WHERE THE WAIAPU RIVER MEETS THE PACIFIC, IS RANGITUKIA. AND THIS IS TE URANGA-O-TE-RA ` YOU KNOW, WE SAY, NGATI POROU'S, WHERE THE SUN RISES ` THIS IS WHERE THE SUN RISES. (GENTLE MUSIC) THIS IS MY MARAE, HINEPARE. THE WHARE IS NAMED FOR THE WHOLE TAIRAWHITI REGION, BUT OF COURSE THE COMPLEX IS NAMED AFTER OUR OUR TIPUNA, HINEPARE, AND THIS IS WHERE I SPENT A GOOD MAJORITY OF MY CHILDHOOD. AFTER GABRIELLE, THE ELECTION WAS ANOTHER FLOOD OF SORTS. THE HERD HAS CHANGED. SIX OF THE SEVEN MAORI ELECTORATES ARE NOW HELD BY TE PATI MAORI. CUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL IS THE ONLY LABOUR MP LEFT, AND SHE'S NEW. HER JOB IS TO BE A VOICE FOR THE PLACE SHE'S FROM, WHERE HER DAD WAS CHURCH MINISTER. AND HOW LONG DID HE STAY AT THE CHURCH FOR? OH, TILL HE DIED. HE WOULD HAVE DONE HIS OWN FUNERAL IF HE HAD TO. (LAUGHS) (BOTH LAUGH) THE CHURCH MADE IT HERE; POLITICIANS VISIT LESS OFTEN. THE CHALLENGE, AS IN ALL SMALL, REMOTE PLACES, IS BEING SEEN. WHEN I WAS CAMPAIGNING, THE CLEAR MESSAGE FROM PEOPLE WAS THAT THEY WANT SOMEONE THAT'S GOING TO BE VISIBLE, THAT'S GOING TO SHOW UP, THAT MAKES THEM FEEL SEEN AND HEARD. FROM RANGITUKIA TO KIRKPATRICK ROAD YES, NAMED AFTER THE NEW NATIONAL MP'S FAMILY. DANA KIRKPATRICK IS TE AITANGA A MAHAKI ON ONE SIDE, PAKEHA ON THE OTHER, TAIRAWHITI ON BOTH. ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOOD? WE ARE SO GOOD. (CHUCKLES) GREAT. CONGRATULATIONS ON BEING THE NEW MP FOR THE EAST COAST. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YEAH, IT'S EXCITING. WEDNESDAY MORNING IN DOWNTOWN GISBORNE, WE MET NATIONAL'S NEW MP AT VERVE CAFE ON THE MAIN DRAG. COFFEE, TREATS, (SIZZLES) BREAKFAST... AND A MESSAGE THAT HAS REAL MEANING IN A PLACE SO OFTEN CUT OFF FROM THE WORLD. PEOPLE HERE JUST WANT THE CYCLONE RECOVERY WORK TO FINISH. I THINK IF THERE'S ONE THING OVER AND ABOVE EVERYTHING THAT EVERYBODY TALKS TO ME ABOUT, IT'S ROADING, AND IT'S RESILIENT, RELIABLE ROADING, BECAUSE THAT'S OUR` THAT'S OUR GAME-CHANGER. THAT'S THE THING THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. PEOPLE AREN'T COMING HERE. TOURISTS AREN'T COMING, PEOPLE AREN'T COMING, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET HERE, AND THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THEY'LL GET HOME AGAIN. I MEAN, JUST TODAY, ROADS CLOSED AGAIN. GO ` OR NOT. THIS WAS STATE HIGHWAY 35 LAST WEEK AS WE DROVE BETWEEN RANGITUKIA AND GISBORNE. (GENTLE MUSIC) THIS WAS AN INLAND ROAD ON A PREVIOUS TRIP ` COMPLETELY GONE. SWALLOWED. THIS WAS STATE HIGHWAY 2 SOUTH FOR MANY WEEKS. CLOSED? YOU BETCHA. OR THE ROAD NORTH OF TOLAGA BAY ` GONE FOR WEEKS. OR STATE HIGHWAY 2 IN BOTH FEB AND JUNE, THIS TIME NORTH OF GISBORNE. (TRAILER CLATTERS) OR, BACK TO LAST WEEK ` THE ENDLESS REPAIRS. SOME REPAIRED ROADS HAVE REFLOODED AND NEEDED NEW REPAIRS. WHY? WELL, LOOK RIGHT, HERE TOWARDS THE RIVER. IF WE REALLY SLOW THE SHOT DOWN, WE CAN SEE HOW THE ROAD ON THE RIGHT IS DISAPPEARING, AND EVERY TIME THE RIVER FLOODS, IT EATS MORE ROAD, ENDLESSLY. I DON'T WANT US, AFTER EVERY RAIN EVENT, TO START CLEANING UP. WHAT I WANT US TO DO IS DO ONE JOB PROPERLY, BUILD IN THAT RESILIENCE. SO (SIGHS) YEAH, IT'S A BIG, BIG ISSUE, AND I THINK` AND AN EXPENSIVE ONE, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE CAN'T JUST KEEP BUILDING ROADS AND BRIDGES HOW WE'VE BUILT THEM FOR THE LAST HOWEVER MANY HUNDRED YEARS, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT WORKING ANY MORE. LOOK AT THE ELECTORATE DANA KIRKPATRICK REPRESENTS ` HEADING NORTH, THERE ARE JUST TWO ROADS OUT. AND STATE HIGHWAY 35 AROUND THE COAS IS BEAUTIFUL, BUT NOT PRACTICAL, AND VERY LONG, WHICH LEAVES STATE HIGHWAY 2. THAT'S IT. AND WHEN IT'S CLOSED, GISBORNE IS EFFECTIVELY CUT OFF FROM EASY ACCESS TO ROUGHLY HALF THE COUNTRY'S POPULATION. IMAGINE THAT IF YOUR BUSINESS IS FRESH. WE ARE OVER 50% OF THE BROCCOLI BUSINESS. YOU TALK SALADS ` WE'RE CURRENTLY ABOUT 40% OF THE SALAD BUSINESS. YOU TALK LETTUCE IN BAGS ` YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN THE 90S. (DEBRIS RATTLES) THE QUESTION NO ONE'S YET ANSWERED IS HOW MUCH WILL IT REALLY COST TO BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE THAT SURVIVES THIS? IN MAY, FORMER CABINET MINISTER HEKIA PARATA DESCRIBED THE SCALE OF THE COAST'S CRISIS IN JUST NINE WORDS. AN ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER IS UNFOLDING THERE IN PLAIN SIGHT. WHAT WE DO KNOW IS, AS WE'VE` THROUGH THIS PROJECT, IS THAT WE'VE BEEN GIVEN $37 MILLION, BUT OUR TEAM HAVE GONE THROUGH AND SCOPED ALL THE NETWORKS THAT ARE AFFECTED BY WOODY DEBRIS, AND THERE'S ACTUALLY ABOUT $117 MILLION THAT WE NEED. AND SO THERE'S OBVIOUS SHORTFALL. WE DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME. WE KNOW NOW. AND SO THOSE WILL BE FURTHER DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'LL BRING UP WITH THE GOVERNMENT. SO ` AN $80 MILLION SHORTFALL, AND ONE SOURCE TOLD ME THAT FEELS OPTIMISTIC. AND THEN THE COST OF FUTURE-PROOFING, BECAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE MEANS MORE FREQUENT WEATHER EXTREMES. AND I KNOW OUR DISCUSSIONS ALSO WITH THE NEW GOVERNMENT WILL BE HOW WE GET BACK ON OUR FEET, HOW WE BUILD IN A LOT OF RESILIENCE SO WE CAN COME TO OUR FULL POTENTIAL HERE IN THE CENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE. I'VE MET WITH MOST OF THE MAYORS IN THIS COMMUNITY, AND I SAY, 'YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET EVERYTHING YOU ASKED FOR, 'SO YOU NEED TO BE REALLY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE, 'WHAT THE GAME-CHANGERS ARE.' THE GAME-CHANGERS MAY BE COMMUNITY-LED. THIS IS THE TE ARAI RIVER. IT'S BEING CLEANED UP IN A WAY THAT WILL ENDURE ` DEBRIS REMOVED, POPLARS FELLED AND CLEARED... EVENTUALLY, NATIVES WILL BE PLANTED. AND IT'S A JOINT EFFORT BETWEEN THE GISBORNE DISTRICT COUNCIL AND RONGOWHAKAATA. AND YOU ARE RONGOWHAKAATA, RIGHT? I AM RONGOWHAKAATA. THIS AWA'S ESPECIALLY SPECIAL TO ME. SO WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE CLEANING IT UP? OH... IT FEELS GREAT. YEAH. IT FEELS GREAT. I THINK MY GRANDMOTHER WOULD BE PROUD. PRIDE. YOU CAN SEE HERE WHAT THEY'RE ACHIEVING WITH IT. THIS IS WHERE THEY'VE CLEANED. WHEN IT'S FINISHED, IT WILL BE A MODEL FOR WHAT'S POSSIBLE RIGHT ALONG THE COAST. WE NEED ACTION. YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD SUPPORT. YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T SAY WE HAVEN'T HAD SUPPORT, BUT WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS TO BE THE DESIGNERS BEFORE THE DELIVERERS. BOTH THE REGION'S NEW MPS ARE DETERMINED TO TELL THE STORY OF THIS PLACE ` THE ROADS, THE SLASH STILL IN THE HILLS AND COUNTLESS SITES. ONE DAY THIS WILL ALL COME DOWN, AS THIS ALL DID. IT CAN'T KEEP HAPPENING, CAN IT? IT'S BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU PUT IT UP IN THE BIG SCHEME OF THINGS, YOU MIGHT THINK, WELL, IT'S A LOW POPULATION, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ISOLATED COMMUNITIES. THERE'S NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE AT THE END OF SOME OF THESE ROADS. BUT THAT'S NOT` THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. PEOPLE NEED TO SURVIVE, PEOPLE'S LIVELIHOODS ARE AT STAKE, AND THEIR WELL-BEING IS BEING AFFECTED AS A RESULT. IT'S 10 MONTHS NOW SINCE WE SHOT THIS FOOTAGE ` A RIVER TURNED TO WOOD, AND IT STILL DOESN'T QUITE COMPUTE THAT THERE COULD BE SO MUCH WOOD THAT WE'D ALLOWED SO MUCH DEBRIS TO BE LEFT BEHIND, AND THEN TO FLOOD, AND THE HILLS ARE FULL OF MORE OF IT AND CLEANING THAT UP WILL COST, BUT NOT DOING IT WILL COST SO MUCH MORE. IN THE END, IF YOU GET THE FUNDING YOU NEED AND YOU GET TO DO THE MAHI THAT YOU HOPE TO DO, WHAT WILL THIS AWA BE LIKE IN THE END? HOW` HOW DO YOU HOPE IT WILL LOOK? IT'LL BE CLEAN, AND IT'LL HAVE A PERMANENT NATIVE RIPARIAN CORRIDOR ALL ALONG THE LENGTH OF IT. YOU KNOW, THE KIDS WILL BE ABLE TO SWIM IN IT, IT'LL BE FULL OF FISH ` SOMETHING WE CAN ALL FEEL PROUD TO HAND ON TO OUR FUTURE GENERATIONS. THAT REALLY WOULD BE MAGIC, WOULDN'T IT? IT'D BE AMAZING. AFTER THE BREAK, COP 28, THE LATEST UN CLIMATE CONFERENCE, IS SET TO BEGIN. BUT JUST WAIT UNTIL YOU HEAR WHERE THIS YEAR'S EVENT IS BEING HELD. THE 2023 UN CLIMATE CHANGE CONFERENCE IS SET TO KICK OFF THIS WEEK IN ONE OF THE WORLD'S LARGEST OIL-PRODUCING NATIONS. COP 28 UAE WILL BE HELD IN DUBAI ` JOURNALIST ROD ORAM WILL BE ATTENDING. KIA ORA. GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING. DOES HOLDING THE CONFERENCE IN A MASSIVE OIL PRODUCING NATION DEVALUE THE FORUM? I THINK IT IS GOING TO INTENSIFY THE FORUM. WE HAVE GOT THE EU AND ALL OF THE NATIONS IN THE EUROPEAN UNION MAKING A DECLARATION THAT THEY ARE TAKING ABOUT PHASING OUT FOSSIL FUELS. OF ALL THE FOSSIL FUEL COUNTRIES THAT COULD BE HOSTING IT, THE UAE IS BY FAR THE MOST BROADMINDED. THERE IS A LOT OF HIGH-TECH, AND I DIVERSIFY THE COMIC, SO OF ALL THE FOSSIL FUEL PRODUCERS, I THINK THAT THEY ARE PROBABLY 'HE BEST ONE' TO HOLD A CONFERENCE LIKE THIS. WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT 1.5DEGREES OF HEATING KEEPING GLOBAL WARMING BELOW THAT LEVEL IS GONE, THEY THINK IT IS UNLIKELY TO BE ACHIEVED, IS THAT THE CONSENSUS WITHIN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY? PRETTY MUCH SO. LAST WEEK WAS THE FIRST TIME THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE ACROSS THE SURFACE OF THE PLANET WAS TO DEGREES ABOVE THE NORM. THAT WAS JUST ONE DAY. WE HAVE JUST WITH READY BROKEN THROUGH THAT BARRIER. ONE AND 1/2DEGREES WOULD BE INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE, BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH MOMENTUM FROM NATURE, FROM CLIMATE CHANGE. HOWEVER, IF WE LOOK AT HOW DRASTICALLY EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS HAVE TO BE TO STAND ANY CHANCE TO GET US AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO 1.5 AGREES, WE STILL NEED TO HAVE THAT AS A TETHER, IF YOU LOOK ACROSS EVERY SECTOR ACROSS THE ECONOMY, YOU CAN MAKE THE CASE THAT THIS COULD BE DONE IF WE GOT OUR ACT TOGETHER, IF THERE WAS THE COMMITMENT, IF THERE WAS THE INVESTMENT. SO THIS COP IS GOING TO BE THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL IN THE LAST 28 YEARS, BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT THAT ACTION. THE UN EMISSIONS REPORT SAID THEY NEEDED TO CUT BY 40% BY 2030 IN ORDER TO KEEP GLOBAL WARMING BELOW THE 1.5DEGREE TARGET. THERE WERE A LOT OF IFS IN YOUR EXPLAIN THE, THAT IS A HUGE SHIFT. I DON'T WANT TO TRADE REPORT WITH YOU, BUT THE INTERNATIONAL ENERGY ASSOCIATION SAID THIS WEEK THAT FROM AN ENERGY POINT OF VIEW, IT LAID OUT HOW TO ACHIEVE THAT LEVEL OF CUTS, AND THEY ARE IMMENSELY EXPERIENCED AND AN INCREDIBLY GOOD ORGANISATION. IT HAS TO START WITH A MASSIVE DETERMINATION FROM THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY ITSELF THAT IS GOING TO BE A PART OF THAT RAPID EMISSIONS REDUCTION, AND THAT COMMITMENT IS NOT THERE. FOOD AND AGRICULTURE SYSTEMS ARE SET TO BE A FOCUS AT THIS YEAR'S COP, WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS FOR NEW ZEALAND? BECAUSE FOOD AND LAND USE ARE IN AGGREGATE THE LARGEST DRIVER OF EMISSIONS AND TIME CHANGE, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THEY FOCUS ON IT. THIS IS THE FIRST COP THAT HAS A FOOD FOCUS, AND THE UNITED NATIONS FOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANISATION WILL BE DELIVERING A ROADMAP ON HOW TO GET FOOD AND FARMING TO ONE AND 1/2DEGREES IN EMISSIONS TERMS. THAT IS A RADICAL REINVENTION OF FARMING. THE HUGE CHALLENGE FOR US IS THAT OUR FARMERS ARE SITTING HERE SAYING THAT THEY ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD IN TERMS OF LOW EMISSIONS, THEREFORE IT IS UP TO OTHER FARMERS TO CATCH UP WITH THEM. THEY ARE MISSING THE POINT. IT IS NOT ABOUT TUNING UP EXISTING FARMING SYSTEMS; IT IS ABOUT RADICAL CHANGE. FOOD AND FARMING IS GOING OFF IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, AND WE WOULD HAVE TO SCRAMBLE REALLY HARD TO MAKE SURE THAT PASTORAL FARMING HAS A ROLE IN THAT. THE ONLY RAY THAT WORKS IS THAT IF WE CAN PROVE THE VALUE OF RUMINANT ANIMALS IN THE ECOSYSTEM TERMS, IHELPING BIODIVERSITY, BUT THE EMISSIONS HAVE TO GET AS CLOSE TO 0 IS POSSIBLE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. WE ARE SEEKING METHANE IN EDITORS, METHANE INHIBITORS* AND CLEAN WHAT IS COMING OUT OF THE TAILPIPE, IF I CAN BORROW FROM THE CURRENT STRING. CAR INDUSTRY*. THE AGRICULTURAL SYSTEM IS NOT TO THINK ABOUT HOW THEY CAN FEED ANIMALS DIFFERENTLY, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT CHANGES EMISSIONS. DOES NEW ZEALAND GO INTO THESE TALKS WITH A CREDIBILITY PROBLEM? YES AND NO. WE HAVE A TERRIFIC REPUTATION FOR BEING VERY CONSTRUCTIVE IN TRYING TO FIND SOLUTIONS, BUT WE ARE LAGGARDS IF WE BACK AWAY FROM THAT AND WE REVERSE THAT DECISION THAT WOULD BE A SERIOUS BLOW FOR OUR CREDENTIALS IN TERMS OF CLIMATE AND ENERGY. WHAT ABOUT CARBON OFFSETS - WE SAW A DUBAI COMPANY BUYING IS ABOVE WHEN ASSETS? THIS HAS BEEN A PRETTY TORRID YEAR FOR OFFSETS, BUT ALSO IN THE REGULATED MARKET. THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY CREDIBLE. UNUSUALLY BENEFICIAL ARRANGEMENTS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES TO BUY THEIR OFFSETS. WE HAVE BUILT THAT INTO OUR EMISSION STRATEGY, BUT WE HAVE DONE THE WORK ON THAT, OR MINIMAL WORK, SO I THINK THAT I KNEW GUNTER IS GOING TO HAVE TO GET THEIR HEAD AROUND THAT, BECAUSE WE ARE DOING SO BADLY HERE, AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BUY THOSE OFFSHORE CREDITS, BUT AGAIN FOR OUR REPUTATIONS SAKE, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE PARTNERING VERY WELL WITH OTHER COUNTRIES SO THAT THEY GET GREAT BENEFITS OUT OF IT, NOT THE WAY THAT DUBAI HAS LAUNCHED INTO IT WITH ZIMBABWE. WE DO NOT WANT THAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. KUA MUTU, THAT'S Q+A FOR THIS WEEK. FROM THE Q+A TEAM, THANKS FOR WATCHING AND NGA MIHI KI A KOUTOU I NGA KARERE. THANKS FOR YOUR FEEDBACK. JUST SO YOU KNOW, NEXT WEEK IS OUR FINAL SHOW OF 2023. HEI TERA WIKI. SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY AT 9AM. CAPTIONS BY LENA ERAKOVICH AND TOM CLARKE. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023