CAPTIONS BY LENA ERAKOVICH AND KRISTIN WILLIAMS. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023 TENA KOUTOU. NAU MAI HAERE MAI. WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M JACK TAME. TODAY, THE HOUSE PREPARES TO SIT AS THE COALITION GOVERNMENT LAUNCHES INTO ITS AGENDA. THE PRIORITIES OF OUR GOVERNMENT ARE NO SECRET. WE HAVE BEEN CLEAR TO THE PEOPLE OF NEW ZEALAND THAT WE WILL REBUILD THE ECONOMY TO TACKLE THE COST OF LIVING, WE WILL RESTORE LAW AND ORDER, AND WE WILL DELIVER BETTER PUBLIC SERVICES. THEN ` A WARNING FROM A TOP CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST ABOUT THE STATE OF MENTAL HEALTHCARE. THE QUESTION NOW IS ` DO WE REFOCUS? HOW, AS A SOCIETY, DO WE DETERMINE WHERE OUR LIMITED RESOURCES SHOULD GO? AND WHEN THE RESOURCES DIDN'T EXIST TO IDENTIFY KIDS STRUGGLING TO LEARN TO READ, THIS KURA TOOK THE LEAD. WE HAD A TAMAITI EARLY LAST YEAR THAT WE SUSPECTED MAY HAVE BEEN AUTISTIC, AND SO WE APPROACHED MINISTRY AND THE LOCAL EDUCATIONAL PSYCHOLOGIST. WE WERE TOLD IT WAS AROUND ABOUT A THREE-YEAR WAIT. WE WILL HAVE THAT STORY FOR YOU SHORTLY. AFTER 40 SHOWS AND AN ELECTION, THIS OUR LAST PROGRAMME FOR 2023, AND AS WE GO TO AIR THIS MORNING, THE 54TH PARLIAMENT IS PREPARING TO OPEN FOR THE FIRST TIME. THEIR FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS WILL BE TO APPOINT THE SPEAKER, BEFORE THE GOVERNOR GENERAL MAKES HER SPEECH FROM THE THRONE. THE HOUSE WILL THEN SIT UNDER URGENCY AS THE NEW COALITION GOVERNMENT PURSUES AN AGGRESSIVE AGENDA BEFORE THE SUMMER BREAK. A FEW MINUTES AGO, I SPOKE WITH THE NEW LEADER OF THE HOUSE. I BEGAN BY ASKING CHRIS BISHOP WHAT WILL BE PASSED BEFORE CHRISTMAS. SO, PARLIAMENT IS GOING TO START SITTING ON TUESDAY. WE'VE GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF PROCEDURAL STUFF TO GO THROUGH ` ELECTING THE SPEAKER, HAVING THE STATE OPENING, THE SPEECH FROM THE THRONE, FIRST QUESTION TIME. AND THEN FROM THE SECOND WEEK OF THE HOUSE SITTING PERIOD, WE'LL START TO LEGISLATE. SO, THE FIRST BILL THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL MOVE WILL BE THE LEGISLATION TO RETURN THE RESERVE BANK TO A SINGLE FOCUS ON PRICE STABILITY ` KEEPING INFLATION UNDER 3%. AND SO, WE WANT TO PUT THAT THROUGH ALL STAGES, AND WE CAN DO THAT BY CHRISTMAS. QUITE A SIMPLE CHANGE TO THE RESERVE BANK OF NEW ZEALAND ACT. AND WE'RE ALSO GOING TO REPEAL THE 'FAIR PAY' LEGISLATION OR SO-CALLED 'FAIR PAY' LEGISLATION. AGAIN, QUITE A SIMPLE REPEAL BILL. WE'RE ALSO GOING TO REPEAL THE NATURAL AND BUILT ENVIRONMENT ACT AND THE SPACIAL PLANNING ACT. THAT'S LABOUR'S CHANGES TO THE RMA, WHICH GOT PASSED IN OCTOBER. SO, AGAIN, THOSE ISSUES HAVE BEEN WELL VENTILATED. AGAIN, QUITE A SIMPLE REPEAL BILL. AND ALSO THE CLEAN CAR DISCOUNT, WHICH IS THE SO-CALLED UTE TAX. SO WE'LL GET THAT OUT OF THE WAY BY CHRISTMAS, AND THAT'S DUE TO STOP ON THE 31ST OF DECEMBER. SO IT REQUIRES LEGISLATION TO DO. YOU'RE GOING TO BE LEGISLATING USING URGENCY. AND OF COURSE, IN THE PAST, AT TIMES, YOU HAVE BEEN A VOCAL CRITIC OF THE USE OF URGENCY. WHY IS URGENCY JUSTIFIED IN THIS CASE? YES, I HAVE, AND I SHOULD SIGNAL THAT OVER THE LIFE OF THIS PARLIAMENT AND THIS GOVERNMENT, WE WILL SEEK TO USE URGENTLY SPARINGLY AND WHERE IT'S REQUIRED. AND IN THIS INSTANCE, I THINK IT'S JUSTIFIED FOR TWO REASONS. NUMBER ONE ` ON ALL OF THE LEGISLATION WE'RE MOVING, THE THREE PARTIES SOUGHT A MANDATE FOR AT THE ELECTION, AND ACTUALLY EXPLICITLY, IN THE CASE OF AT LEAST NATIONAL AND ACT, SAID THAT THE NATURAL AND BUILT ENVIRONMENT ACT, FOR EXAMPLE, SHOULD BE REPEALED BY CHRISTMAS, GIVEN IT HAD ONLY JUST BEEN PASSED, AND WE SOUGHT A MANDATE FOR THAT AT THE ELECTION, AND WE RECEIVED THAT MANDATE FROM NEW ZEALANDERS. AND THEN THE SECOND THING I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT A LOT OF THESE BILLS ARE REPEAL BILLS, AND IN SOME CASES THEY REPEAL LEGISLATION THAT'S ONLY JUST BEEN PASSED. SO IN THE CASE OF THE RMA, FOR EXAMPLE, OR THE NATURAL AND BUILT ENVIRONMENT ACT, THAT ONLY GOT PASSED BY THE PARLIAMENT IN OCTOBER. SO THE LAST PARLIAMENT WENT THROUGH A LONG AND CONVOLUTED PROCESS TO PASS IT. OUR MANDATE AT THE ELECTION WAS TO REPEAL IT. AND IT'S A SIMPLE REPEAL BILL. THESE ARE NOT TECHNICAL BILLS THAT REQUIRE DEEP DIVES, A SELECT COMMITTEE, LOTS OF CONSULTATION. THEY'RE RELATIVELY SIMPLE, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE COMFORTABLE ADVANCING THEM LIKE THAT. BY MY COUNT, AT LEAST 20 OF THE ACTIONS LISTED IN YOUR 100-DAY PLAN ARE PLANS TO REPEAL OR REPLACE OR REMOVE LEGISLATION, TO STOP WORK THAT'S UNDERWAY. WHEN WILL NEW ZEALANDERS SEE THE FIRST PIECE OF LEGISLATION PASSED THAT ACTUALLY BUILDS SOMETHING NEW, IF YOU LIKE. YOU'LL SEE LEGISLATION IN THE NEW YEAR. SO, OUR FOCUS BEFORE CHRISTMAS IS ON GETTING STUFF OFF THE STATUTE BOOKS THAT WE JUST WANT TO STOP WORK ON. SO THE NATURAL AND BUILT ENVIRONMENT ACT, FOR EXAMPLE, HAS A HUGE SWATHE OF THINGS THAT COUNCILS HAVE TO DO UNLESS IT'S NO LONGER THE LAW. SO WE NEED TO GET IT OFF THE STATUTE BOOKS. THE CLEAN CAR DISCOUNT, WE'VE SIGNALLED WE WANT THAT TO STOP ON 31ST DECEMBER, 1ST JANUARY/NEW YEAR. IT REQUIRES LEGISLATION. SO THERE'S A BIT OF TIME PRESSURE ON SOME OF THESE THINGS, BEFORE CHRISTMAS. IN THE NEW YEAR, YOU'LL START TO SEE LEGISLATION AROUND THREE WATERS, FOR EXAMPLE. YOU'LL START TO SEE LEGISLATION POTENTIALLY AROUND SETTING UP A NATIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE AGENCY. THERE'S SOME OF THE THINGS AROUND LAW AND ORDER AND THE YOUTH JUSTICE SPACE THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT'S ALREADY BEEN STARTED BY MINISTERS ON THAT. AND SO, LET ME TELL YOU, WHEN WE COME BACK IN THE NEW YEAR, THERE'LL BE A VERY BUSY LEGISLATIVE PERIOD AS WELL. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE BIG REFORMS THAT ARE BEING REPEALED ` AND I THINK THE LIKES OF RMA 2.0 AND THREE WATERS, WHEN CAN NEW ZEALANDERS EXPECT COMPREHENSIVE REPLACEMENTS TO BE IN PLACE FOR THREE WATERS AND THE RMA? WE'LL BE MAKING FURTHER ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUT THAT IN DUE COURSE. SIMEON BROWNS, WHO'S THE MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT, ALONGSIDE MYSELF, WE'RE DOING SOME QUITE HEAVY LIFTING. WE'VE ALREADY TAKEN ADVICE ON HOW TO GET STARTED ON THAT THREE WATERS REPLACEMENT LEGISLATION. IT'S PART OF OUR 100-DAY PLAN TO INTRODUCE LEGISLATION TO REPEAL AND REPLACE THE THREE WATERS REGIME. SO WE'RE WORKING AT PACE ON THAT, AND WE'LL BE MAKING ANNOUNCEMENTS AROUND THAT. ON THE RMA AND THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT SPACE MORE GENERALLY, I'M THINKING ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF THREE PHASES. THE FIRST IS GET RID OF THE NATURAL AND BUILT ENVIRONMENT ACT ` LABOUR'S LAWS. THAT'LL BE DONE BY CHRISTMAS. IN THE NEW YEAR, I WILL BE BRINGING LEGISLATION TO THE PARLIAMENT TO ESTABLISH A FAST-TRACK REGIME FOR CONSENTS, AND I'M WORKING ALONGSIDE SHANE JONES AND OTHER MINISTERS ON THAT, AND YOU CAN EXPECT TO SEE THAT LEGISLATION IN THE NEW YEAR, BUT THAT WILL MAKE IT EASIER TO GET STARTED ON INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, FOR EXAMPLE. AND YOU'LL SEE THAT IN THE NEW YEAR. AND THEN THE THIRD PHASE OF THE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT REFORMS IS TO START ON REPLACEMENT LEGISLATION FOR THE RMA, AND THAT WILL BE A LONGER-TERM PROCESS. THE AIM IS TO HAVE THAT INTO LAW BY THE END OF THE THREE YEARS. BUT WE NEED TO DO SOME QUITE HEAVY POLICY LIFTING ON THAT AND DO QUITE A LOT OF CONSULTATION ON THAT. SO THAT WILL BE A MORE MEDIUM- TO LONG-TERM PROJECT. SO THE FIRST BILL OF THE NEW GOVERNMENT WILL RETURN THE RESERVE BANK OF NEW ZEALAND TO A SINGLE REMIT, FOCUSED ON CONTROLLING INFLATION AND PRICE STABILITY. IT MEANS THAT THEY NO LONGER WILL HAVE A REMIT TO CONSIDER UNEMPLOYMENT. WHAT WILL BE THE IMPACT OF THAT BILL ON NEW ZEALAND'S UNEMPLOYMENT RATE NEXT YEAR? WELL, THERE WOULD BE ECONOMISTS WHO WOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU THE EXACT SPECIFICS ON THAT, AND IT'S IN NICOLA WILLIS' AREA. BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY TO YOU IS THAT FOR MANY YEARS, POST-THE-RESERVE-BANK-ACT-1989, THE RESERVE BANK WAS WORLD-LEADING, ACTUALLY, IN THE SENSE OF BEING FOCUSED ON ONE THING AND NOT CONFUSING ITSELF WITH DIFFERENT MISSIONS. IT WAS WORLD-LEADING BECAUSE IT FOCUSED ON PRICE STABILITY ` INITIALLY, THE 0% TO 2% BAND FOR INFLATION. LATTERLY MOVED TO 1% TO 3%. AND OUR VIEW IS THAT KEEPING THE RESERVE BANK FOCUSED ON WHAT IT SHOULD DO, WHICH IS MONETARY POLICY, FOCUSED ON GETTING INFLATION DOWN, IS THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION. WE SAW THE MANDATE FOR IT AT THE ELECTION AND WE INTEND TO IMPLEMENT IT. YEAH, BUT I MEAN THE YIN TO THE OCR'S YANG IS THAT TYPICALLY A HIGHER OCR, WHICH IS USED TO TARGET INFLATION, MEANS A HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT RATE. AND IF YOUR GOVERNMENT'S CONTENTION IS THAT THE RESERVE BANK HAS BEEN DISTRACTED BY LOOKING AT THE UNEMPLOYMENT ISSUE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THEN SURELY THE FLIP SIDE TO THAT IS THAT BY FOCUSING SOLELY ON INFLATION, WE'RE GOING TO EXPECT A MUCH HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT RATE. I THINK THE POINT IS THAT GOVERNMENTS SHOULD FOCUS ON THE FISCAL LEVERS AND OTHER POLICY PARAMETERS THAT YOU NEED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION. THE RESERVE BANK NEEDS TO FOCUS ON ITS JOB, WHICH IS MONETARY POLICY, AND THE BEST THING WE CAN DO FOR THIS ECONOMY IN THE MEDIUM TO LONG TERM AND FRANKLY, IN THE SHORT TERM AS WELL, IS GET INFLATION DOWN, BECAUSE ONCE INFLATION GETS INTO THE ARTERIES OF AN ECONOMY LIKE IT HAS DONE OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS IN NEW ZEALAND, IT IS WEALTH-DESTRUCTIVE FOR SO MANY PEOPLE. WE'VE SEEN WAGES NOT KEEPING UP WITH INFLATION. WE'VE SEEN THE SAVINGS OF PEOPLE ERODE. WE'VE SEEN BUSINESSES NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAN. INFLATION IS THE SCOURGE OF MODERN ECONOMIES. WE NEED TO GET IT DOWN. AND THAT'S WHY WE WANT THE RESERVE BANK FOCUSED ON IT. AND OF COURSE, WE'VE GOT A WHOLE RANGE OF OTHER PRODUCTIVITY-ENHANCING REFORMS AND MEASURES THAT WE WANT TO IMPLEMENT OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS TO DRIVE ECONOMIC GROWTH AND ALSO PRODUCTIVITY GROWTH IN THE ECONOMY. IN YOUR FIRST 100 DAYS, YOU WILL REPEAL THOSE SMOKEFREE CHANGES. COMPARED TO BUSINESS AS USUAL, DO YOU ACCEPT THAT THOSE CHANGES WOULD HAVE SAVED LIVES? NO, I THINK THE EVIDENCE IS NOT THERE ON THAT. ACTUALLY, THE CHANGES ARE HIGHLY SPECULATIVE, ACTUALLY WERE OPPOSED, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, BY SOME PEOPLE IN THE SORT OF ANTI-SMOKING SMOKEFREE MOVEMENT. IN THE SORT OF ANTI-SMOKING SMOKEFREE MOVEMENT. THINGS LIKE HAVING ONE STORE IN NORTHLAND THAT CAN SELL CIGARETTES - THAT STORE WOULD HAVE TO BE FOUGHT NOT, IT WOULD END UP BEING A TARGET OF RAM RAIDS AND CRIME, THE IDEA OF HAVING JUST HAVING ONE STORE IN NORTHLAND WON'T LEAD TO A BLACK MARKET` WHICH IS THAT ONE STORE IN NORTHLAND COME FROM? THE GOVERNMENT PUBLISHED- BASICALLY THE PLANNERS, AND I AM BELOW MEANS EXPERT, THE GOVERNMENT PUBLISHED A PLAN TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF RETAIL OUTLETS WE COULD BUY CIGARETTES AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS BASICALLY THEY PROPOSED ONE STORE FOR THE NORTHLAND REGION SO PEOPLE HAD TRAVEL. I WENT THROUGH THE LIST THAT WAS PRODUCED BY THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL GENERAL OF HEALTH THIS YEAR, THERE WERE GOING TO BE 600 STORES NATIONWIDE - THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL HAD USED CONSIDER POPULATION, SMOKING RATES IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF NEW ZEALAND, BY MY COUNT, NORTHLAND WOULD HAVE 35 TOBACCO OUTLETS. I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT LIST BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IN NORTHLAND IS ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES-� YOU JUST SAID ONE. I READ TREASURY'S REGULATORY IMPACT STATEMENTTHAT'S YOU JUST SAID ONE. THAT'S RIGHT, THERE WILL BE ONE STORE IN NORTHLAND. THAT IS WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER SAID AS WELL BUT THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL'S LISTS SAYS 35. WHY DO YOU KEEP ON SAYING`? MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THERE WILL BE ONE STORE IN NORTHLAND AND SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE NUMBER AROUND THE COUNTRY - YOU WOULD HAVE JUST ONE OR TWO POTENTIAL STORES IN SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY. I HAVE JUST TOLD YOU THAT THERE ARE 35... I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH FURTHER WE CAN TAKE THIS - MY UNDERSTANDING IS JUST ONE AVAILABLE IN NORTHLAND AND IT WAS SIGNIFICANT REDUCE BECHO OUTLETS AND LEAD TO BLACK MARKETS AND RAM RAIDS AND BECOMING FORT KNOX WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE WANT. I READ TREASURY'S REGULATORY IMPACT STATEMENT FOR THE SMOKE-FREE AOTEAROA ACTION PLAN THAT SUGGESTED THE PLAN WOULD RESULT IN $5 BILLION IN HEALTH SPENDING SAVINGS, $5 BILLION IN PRODUCTIVITY GAINS, AND THAT THE PLAN WOULD SAVE THOUSANDS OF LIVES. YOU SAY THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THAT WOULD BE THE EFFECT. BUT YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS SAID THAT OTHER CHANGES IT WOULD INTRODUCE WOULD HELP TO REDUCE SMOKING RATES INSTEAD. WHAT SORT OF CHANGES MIGHT HELP TO REDUCE SMOKING RATES THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT WOULD SUPPORT? WELL, NEW ZEALAND'S SMOKING RATES HAVE BEEN ON THE DECLINE, ACTUALLY SINCE THE LAST NATIONAL-LED GOVERNMENT. THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT OF 2008 ONWARDS SIGNIFICANTLY RAISED EXCISE ON TOBACCO, INTRODUCED PLAIN PACKAGING, FOR EXAMPLE, AS WELL, A RANGE OF OTHER AMENDMENTS TO OUR SMOKE-FREE LAWS. SO OUR SMOKING RATES HAVE BEEN DECLINING, AND WE WANT THEM TO CONTINUE TO DECLINE AS WELL. WE JUST DON'T THINK A LIMITED NUMBER OF STORES, THE OTHER MEASURES THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS PROPOSED ARE THE RIGHT WAY TO GO ABOUT DOING THAT, BUT WE DO WANT TO SEE FEWER PEOPLE SMOKING AND TAKING UP SMOKING, AND ACTUALLY THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING. THE OTHER THING THAT'S HAPPENED IS VAPING, OF COURSE, HAS BECOME AN ALTERNATIVE TO SMOKING SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER FOR YOU THAN NICOTINE-BASED TOBACCO WITH ALL OF THE HEALTH COMPLICATIONS THAT COME FROM THAT. SO THERE'S CHALLENGES WITH VAPING AS WELL, BECAUSE SOME OF THE EVIDENCE IS THAT YOUNG KIDS ARE TAKING IT UP, AND, YOU KNOW, WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, AND I KNOW A LOT OF PARENTS WATCHING ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT AS WELL. SO IT'S ABOUT HOW YOU FIND THAT` GET THAT BALANCE RIGHT BETWEEN HAVING VAPING AND OTHER PRODUCTS LIKE THAT AS ALTERNATIVE MECHANISMS FOR PEOPLE TO GET OFF SMOKING, BUT MAKING SURE ALSO THAT PEOPLE AREN'T TAKING IT UP, PARTICULARLY YOUNG KIDS AS WELL. SO GETTING THE LICENSING REGIME AROUND THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT. I DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT IT RIGHT AT THE MOMENT, FRANKLY. I'VE GOT A VAPING STORE THAT'S OPENING 380M FROM ONE OF MY LOCAL PRIMARY SCHOOLS IN WAINUIOMATA, IN MY OWN ELECTORATE, AND I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, SO I DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT THE REGIME RIGHT THERE YET, AND I KNOW SHANE RETI IS DOING SOME WORK ON THAT. MM. FINALLY, NICOLA WILLIS IS PLANNING A MINI BUDGET BEFORE CHRISTMAS. WILL THAT INCLUDE CHANGES THAT REQUIRE LEGISLATION AND IF SO, WHEN WILL THAT LEGISLATION BE PASSED? YOU'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE WHEN IT COMES TO NICOLA'S MINI BUDGET BEFORE CHRISTMAS. AND SO I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU A YAY OR NAY ON THAT. YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE. BUT SHE CERTAINLY IS INTENDING TO PUBLISH A MINI BUDGET BEFORE CHRISTMAS, YEAH. THE NEW LEADER OF THE HOUSE, CHRIS BISHOP. JUST TO CONFIRM, IN SEPTEMBER, THE DIRECTOR GENERAL OF HEALTH PUBLISHED A MAXIMUM DISTRIBUTION OF TOBACCO OUTLETS UNDER THE SMOKE-FREE LAW CHANGES. AS I EXPLAINED, THE LIST CONSIDERED POPULATION, TRAVEL TIMES, AND SMOKING RATES. THERE WERE JUST UNDER 600 STORES NATIONWIDE, INCLUDING A TOTAL 35 OUTLETS ACROSS NORTHLAND, NOT ONE AS BOTH THE MINISTER AND THE PRIME MINISTER CLAIMED IN HIS PRESS CONFERENCE THIS WEEK. WE'VE JUST POSTED THE LIST TO OUR X FEED SO YOU CAN CHECK IT FOR YOURSELF. COMING UP ` REMEMBER THIS? JACINDA ARDERN'S RESIGNATION WAS ONLY 10 MONTHS AGO, BUT THE POLITICAL DYNAMICS IN NEW ZEALAND HAVE FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED. WHEN LABOUR CAME TO POWER IN 2017, IMPROVING NEW ZEALAND'S MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES WAS A MAJOR FOCUS. BUT SIX YEARS ON, A TOP FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST IS QUESTIONING WHAT PROGRESS HAS ACTUALLY BEEN MADE, AND URGING THE NEW GOVERNMENT TO REASSESS ITS PRIORITIES IN MENTAL HEALTH. DR ERIK MONASTERIO WORKED IN THE PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE FOR 25 YEARS. HE GAVE EVIDENCE FOR THE CROWN IN THE RECENT LAUREN DICKASON TRIAL. BUT HE SAYS HE GREW SO EXASPERATED WITH THE STATE OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE AND SUPPORT FOR ACUTE MENTAL DISORDERS, THAT HE LEFT. LOOK, IT'S A SAD STORY FOR ME, BECAUSE I'M A PRODUCT OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE. I FINISHED MY MEDICAL TRAINING IN NEW ZEALAND. I DID MY SPECIALTY TRAINING AND SUB-SPECIALTY TRAINING IN FORENSIC PSYCHIATRY, AND THEN I WORKED IN THE FORENSIC SERVICE FOR 25 YEARS, EVENTUALLY MOVING INTO A POSITION OF LEADERSHIP. BUT THE LAST FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS HAVE JUST SEEN THIS DECAY IN THE MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES IN NEW ZEALAND, AND I DID EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO TRY TO CHANGE THAT, AND FROM WITHIN THE SYSTEM I COULDN'T ACHIEVE THAT CHANGE. AND THEREFORE, AS A LEADER, I FELT THAT IF I COULDN'T ACHIEVE THE CHANGE WHILE I WAS LEADING ` AND IN A LEADERSHIP POSITION, I WAS SEEING INTOLERABLE SITUATIONS ` MM. - ...THE ONLY OPTION AVAILABLE TO ME WAS TO RESIGN AND EVENTUALLY TRY TO WORK FROM OUTSIDE OF THE SYSTEM, IF YOU LIKE. WHEN YOU SAY DECAY, WHAT DO YOU MEAN LOOK, WHAT I MEAN IS THAT AS WE'RE SITTING HERE IN THE STUDIO, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE WITH SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS LIVING ON THE STREETS, AND INCREASINGLY IN PRISON. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A DEGREE OF PSYCHIATRIC PATHOLOGY AT THE EXTREME END. MM. NOW, IN NEW ZEALAND, WE HAVE THE MENTAL HEALTH ACT, WHICH, WHILST IT'S CRITICISED, IT'S ALSO THE PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT ENSURES THAT PEOPLE WITH SERIOUS MENTAL DISORDERS ARE IDENTIFIED AND TREATED APPROPRIATELY. AND AS I SAID, THERE ARE DOZENS OF PEOPLE WHO WILL QUALIFY FOR THE MENTAL HEALTH ACT, AND WHO ARE LANGUISHING IN PRISON OR ON THE STREETS. AND LET'S COMPARE THIS TO OTHER SERVICES WITHIN THE HEALTH SYSTEM. IF YOU HAVE AN ACUTE, SEVERE MENTAL DISORDER AND QUALIFY FOR THE MENTAL HEALTH ACT, IT'S THE EQUIVALENT IN A SURGICAL SERVICE TO SOMEBODY WHO NEEDS AN OPERATION HERE AND NOW. MM. LET'S SAY IT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF AN ACUTE APPENDICITIS. NOW, NO MATTER HOW STRETCHED THE HEALTH SERVICE IS, IF YOU TURN UP TO ED AND YOU HAVE AN ACUTE APPENDICITIS, YOU WILL GET YOUR OPERATION. IF YOU HAVE A MYOCARDIAL INFARCT OR A HEART ATTACK, YOU WILL GET TREATMENT FOR THAT. THE EQUIVALENT FOR MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES IS IF YOU MEET CRITERIA FOR THE ACT, THEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING WHICH IS COMPARABLE TO THOSE SURGICAL AND MEDICAL NEEDS ` YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE CARE. MM-HM. AND OFTEN, THESE DAYS, YOU'RE EITHER LIVING ON THE STREETS OR YOU'RE REMANDED TO CUSTODY, AND THOSE APPROACHES ALMOST GUARANTEE A WORSE OUTCOME FOR THOSE DISORDERS, AND AN EXTRAORDINARY LEVEL OF HUMAN SUFFERING. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE LAST SEVEN YEAR THAT HAS LED TO THE DECAY? IN GENERAL, WE TALK ABOUT A CRISIS IN HEALTH. PSYCHIATRY HAS NEVER BEEN PARTICULARLY GOOD AT SECURING AND RING-FENCING ITS RESOURCES. SO, RELATIVE TO MEDICAL SPECIALTIES, WE'RE UNDERFUNDED. MM. BUT INCREASINGLY WE'VE JUST FAILED TO KEEP PACE WITH POPULATION GROWTH, WITH THE COMPLEXITY OF ISSUES IN THE COMMUNITY, AND SERVICES ARE BELEAGUERED. PEOPLE ARE LEAVING BECAUSE IT'S IT'S A TOUGH ENVIRONMENT TO WORK IN, AND ME AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE ` AFTER 25 YEARS, I'M LEAVING MYSELF. I NEVER WANTED TO LEAVE` MM. ...BUT I FOUND THAT I JUST COULDN'T STAY IN THAT SITUATION AND PROP UP A SYSTEM WHERE IT WAS CAUSING SO MUCH HARM. I MEAN, THIS WILL JUST COME AS A SURPRISE TO MANY OF OUR VIEWERS, WHO WILL RECALL, OF COURSE, THAT OVER THE LAST SIX YEARS, OVER THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT, THERE WAS A LOT OF FOCUS AND RESOURC PUT INTO MENTAL HEALTH GENERALLY. SO THERE WAS FUNDING, BUT THERE WAS ALSO THE INQUIRY INTO MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION ` WHAT HAS BEEN THE RESULT OF THAT ATTENTION AND FOCUS? LOOK, THE MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTIONS INQUIRY SET ITSELF A BROAD SCOPE, AND AS ITS STARTING POINT, IT SET ITSELF THE CHALLENGE` (CLEARS THROAT) ...TO LOOK BEYOND SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS TO MENTAL DISTRESS. YEAH. AND THE BROADNESS OF THIS FOCUS MEANS THAT AT THE MORE SEVERE END OF THE SPECTRUM, THOSE WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN` NOT ENTIRELY, BUT TO SOME EXTENT SIDELINED AND IGNORED. SO IT'S ONE OF THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THE MENTAL HEALTH INQUIRY IS THAT THE EXPECTATION NOW HAS BEEN SET SO HIGH THAT THOSE WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS ARE ACTUALLY MISSING OUT. SO IS THAT A CASE OF SPREADING RESOURCES OVER A BROADER GROUP OF PEOPLE, RATHER THAN MAYBE DEFINING THOSE RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE AT THE MORE ACUTE END OF THE SCALE? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND I THINK THERE'S AN IDEOLOGICAL BASIS OF IT, MM. ...AND YOU'VE GOT TO BE CAREFUL THAT IDEOLOGICAL DIRECTIONS DON'T HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. MM. AND I THINK THERE IS UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES HERE. BUT AS A STARTING POINT, BEFORE THE MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTIONS INQUIRY, WE WERE ALREADY SIGNALLING TO THE GOVERNMENT AND TO THE MINISTRY THAT THERE WERE INSUFFICIENT RESOURCES TO MANAGE THOSE AT THE SEVERE END OF THE SPECTRUM. MM. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTIONS INQUIRY, IT PROPOSES AT THE OUTSET THAT THE 3% OF SERIOUSLY MENTALLY DISORDERED IN NEW ZEALAND WERE ALREADY WELL CATERED TO, BUT THAT WASN'T THE CASE. THE MINISTRY WAS AWARE OF THAT, AND THE GOVERNMENT WAS AWARE OF THAT, BECAUSE WE PROVIDED THEM WITH PLENTY OF INFORMATION TO HIGHLIGHT TO THEM THE UNMET NEED FOR THOSE AT THE MORE SEVERE END OF THE SPECTRUM ` PARTICULARLY THOSE IN PRISONS WHO COULD NOT GET INTO HOSPITAL. THAT'S RIGHT. SO TO WHAT EXTENT ARE WE INCARCERATING THOSE EXPERIENCING SEVERE MENTAL DISTRESS OR DISORDER? YEAH, LOOK, AND THIS IS PERHAPS ONE OF THE MOST CONCERNING ASPECTS OF WHAT MY JOB HAS BEEN, BECAUSE I AM A FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST, I WORK IN PRISONS, AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN NEW ZEALAND IS THAT PRISONS ARE NOW BECOMING THE NEW PSYCHIATRIC INSTITUTIONS. SO WE ARE INCARCERATING THE MENTALLY DISORDERED, AND OFTEN THEY'RE IN PRISON OVER TRIVIAL CHARGES SIMPLY BECAUSE THERE ARE NO BEDS AVAILABLE IN THE PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM. SO IT'S BECOME A NEW NORM TO PLACE SOMEBODY INTO PRISON RATHER THAN TO TAKE THEM INTO HOSPITAL. IT'S A BIT LIKE` GOING BACK TO MY METAPHOR OF THE PERSON WITH AN ACUTE APPENDICITIS. MM. SOMEBODY WITH THAT LEVEL OF NEED IS GOING TO PRISON, AND THE ENVIRONMENT IN PRISON WILL ALMOST GUARANTEE A WORSE OUTCOME FOR THEM. YEAH, TALK TO US ABOUT THAT. I REALISE THAT THERE IS PERHAPS NO ONE OUTCOME, BUT WHAT WOULD BE THE TYPICAL CONSEQUENCES FOR SOMEONE EXPERIENCING SEVERE MENTAL DISORDER WHO'S INCARCERATED? SO, GENERALLY, A SEVERE MENTAL DISORDER ` THE MOST COMMON DIAGNOSIS, IF YOU LIKE, IT'S A PSYCHOTIC DISORDER. SO THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HAVING DELUSIONAL BELIEFS. THEY'RE OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY. THEY'RE OFTEN PERSECUTED. THEY THINK GOVERNMENT AGENCIES OR THE DEVIL IS TALKING ABOUT THEM, PERSECUTING AGAINST THEM. MM. THEY OFTEN HEAR VOICES. THEY'RE DISTRACTED BY WHAT WE CALL PERCEPTUAL DISTURBANCES. SO, AS THEY'RE OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY, THEY OFTEN ARE DISRUPTIVE IN THEIR BEHAVIOURS. THEY DON'T ENGAGE WELL. THEY'RE OFTEN` BECOME DISENFRANCHISED FROM THEIR FAMILIES. THEY EITHER END UP LIVING ON THE STREETS OR BEHAVING ODDLY. THEY COME BEFORE THE COURT... VERY OFTEN... WOULD SUFFICIENT RESOURCES BE AVAILABLE, THEY WOULD GO INTO HOSPITAL. MM. BUT IF A BED'S NOT AVAILABLE, THEY MAY GO INTO PRISON. AND PRISON IS A TOUGH ENVIRONMENT, RIGHT? SO IF YOU GO INTO PRISON AND YOU BEHAVE ODDLY, YOU'RE AT RISK TO YOURSELF AND POTENTIALLY TO OTHERS. SO IT'S NOT RARE FOR SOMEBODY WITH A PSYCHOTIC DISORDER THAT THEN END UP IN A PART OF THE PRISON CALLED THE INTERVENTION AND SUPPORT UNIT, WHERE THEY'RE SUBJECT TO ISOLATION FOR 23 OR 24 HOURS A DAY, AND THEY'RE HELD IN CELLS` WHICH YOU COULDN'T DESIGN A WORSE HEALTH` MM. ...A CELL FOR SOMEBODY WITH A SERIOUS MENTAL DISORDER. THEY'RE ISOLATED FROM OTHERS. THEY OFTEN DON'T HAVE A WINDOW TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD. IF THEIR BEHAVIOUR'S DISTURBED ENOUGH, THEY WON'T EVEN HAVE A TOILET. MM. THEY'RE LOCKED DOWN 23 HOURS A DAY. SO YOU IMAGINE A PERSON IN AN ISU CELL HEARING VOICES, HAVING PARANOID BELIEFS, BELIEVING THAT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO COME IN AND HARM THEM, AND YOU LEAVE THEM THERE 23 HOURS A DAY. THE STAFF IN PRISON HAVE NOT BEEN TRAINED TO MANAGE THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE. MM. NOW, THAT ISOLATION WE KNOW UNEQUIVOCALLY LEADS TO WORSE OUTCOMES FOR PEOPLE WITH SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS. AND THEY MAY BE THERE FOR WEEKS WAITING TO COME INTO HOSPITAL, AND AT TIMES THEY NEVER GET INTO HOSPITAL AT ALL. WHEN YOU LEFT THE DHB, WHAT WAS DONE TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU LEFT? VERY LITTLE. I DIDN'T HAVE AN EXIT INTERVIEW. I DID SIGNAL MY CONCERNS TO THE DHB, AND I'M NOT HERE TO DISCUSS MY DISSATISFACTION ABOUT WHY I LEFT THE PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE. I'M HERE TO IMPLORE PEOPLE TO LOOK FOR A SOLUTION. MM. AND THE SOLUTIONS WILL COME WHEN WE UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE IN THIS MESS. AND PART OF THAT IS TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHO ARE LEAVING THE SERVICE TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS THAT WE'RE LEAVING. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE BASIS OF THE PROBLEM, YOU'LL NEVER SOLVE THAT PROBLEM. MM. AND IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR TE WHATU ORA TO TELL US HOW MANY SPECIALISTS ARE LEAVING THE PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE, BECAUSE WHEN THEY LEAVE, THEY TAKE DECADES OF EXPERIENCE WITH THEM WHICH IS NOT EASILY REPLACED. MENTAL HEALTH IS PARTICULARLY UNIQUE BECAUSE IT'S GOT A SOCIOCULTURAL CONTEXT THAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND, AND PSYCHIATRISTS ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE SOCIOCULTURAL CONTEXT OF NEW ZEALAND, AND PSYCHIATRISTS ARE TRAINED TO UNDERSTAND THE SOCIOCULTURAL CONTEXT OF NEW ZEALAND, SO THEIR EXPERTISE IS NOT EASILY REPLACED BY PSYCHIATRISTS COMING FROM OVERSEAS. WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY'RE LEAVING, AND WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. AND IT'S YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT OTHER PSYCHIATRISTS ARE LEAVING THE PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM. OH, I KNOW THEY ARE. MM. I KNOW THEY ARE, AND THEY'RE DOING IT IN INCREASINGLY LARGE NUMBERS. AND WHY DO THEY TELL YOU THAT IS? WHY DO YOUR COLLEAGUES SAY THEY'RE LEAVING? LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO PUT WORDS INTO MY COLLEAGUES' MOUTH, BUT WE REFLECT ON THE SITUATION, AND THERE IS A CONSENSUS OF AGREEMENT. MM. AND THE DIFFICULTY IS THERE'S A LACK OF GOOD, EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP THAT WOULD MAKE US FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THERE IS A WAY THROUGH THIS DIFFICULT SITUATION. MM. HEY, LOOK, PEOPLE WILL TOUGH OUT THE HARD TIMES IF YOU HAVE A PLAN TO EVENTUALLY GET TO A BETTER OUTCOME. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THAT LEVEL OF LEADERSHIP. THE VISION ISN'T THERE. SO PEOPLE GET BURNT OUT, THEY GET FRUSTRATED AND THEY MOVE ON. MM. AND IN MENTAL HEALTH IN PARTICULAR` I THINK THIS IS VERY TELLING, BECAUSE PSYCHIATRY IS NOT THE MOST GLORIFIED OF MEDICAL SPECIALTIES. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE HIGHEST-PAYING. IT TAKES ANYWHERE BETWEEN 12 AND 14 YEARS TO REACH THE STATUS OF A JUNIOR CONSULTANT PSYCHIATRIST. AND IN MY EXPERIENCE, THE PEOPLE THAT GO INTO THAT PROFESSION HAVE A HIGH LEVEL OF CONSCIENCE AND A HIGH LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT TO HELP THOSE WHO ARE MOST DISADVANTAGED IN OUR COMMUNITY. SO IF THOSE PEOPLE ARE LEAVING, WHO ARE VERY ALTRUISTIC BY NATURE, THERE IS SOMETHING GOING AMISS HERE. MM. WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO THE INCOMING GOVERNMENT AS TO WHERE THEIR FOCUS SHOULD BE WHEN IT COMES TO MENTAL HEALTH? WE NEED TO LISTEN TO OUR STAFF. WE NEED TO ESTABLISH THE LEVEL OF UNMET NEED. WE NEED TO LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD CONTACT WITH SPECIALIST MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES ARE ENDING UP IN PRISON. SO IF YOU'VE GOT A HISTORY OF CONTACT WITH SPECIALIST MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE ENDING UP IN PRISON, AND WHY ARE THEY THERE? AND THAT WILL GIVE YOU AN ESTIMATION OF THE UNMET NEED AT THE MOST SEVERE END OF THE SPECTRUM. AND YOU NEED ADEQUATE LEADERSHIP TO IDENTIFY WHERE THE PROBLEMS SIT, STRATIFY THE IMPORTANCE OF ADDRESSING EACH ISSUE, AND THEN HAVE A PLAN MOVING FORWARD. YOU TALKED AT THE START OF THE INTERVIEW ABOUT FOCUS SHIFTING OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS FROM THE ACUTE-END MENTAL DISORDERS INTO PEOPLE EXPERIENCING MENTAL DISTRESS AS WELL. IS IT POSSIBLE, UNDER OUR CURRENT SYSTEM, TO RESOURCE BOTH OF THOSE? TO MAKE SURE THAT, ACTUALLY, THINGS AT THE ACUTE END OF THE SCALE ARE WELL-RESOURCED, BUT ALSO PEOPLE EXPERIENCING MENTAL DISTRESS GET THE HELP THEY NEED? LOOK, AND THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION AND A CHALLENGING QUESTION, BECAUSE BEFORE THE MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTIONS INQUIRY, WE ALREADY KNEW WE WERE WOEFULLY SHORT OF STAFF. MM. IN 2013, PROFESSOR DES GORMAN ADVISED THE GOVERNMENT THAT THERE WOULD BE A NURSING CRISIS IN NEW ZEALAND BECAUSE WE WERE NOT TRAINING SUFFICIENT PEOPLE IN NURSING. THE MEDIAN AGE OF NURSES WERE IN THEIR 50S, SO IN THE NEXT DECADE, THEY WERE GOING TO REACH RETIREMENT AGE. AND EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS A PREDICTION OF THIS CRISIS, VERY LITTLE WAS DONE. MM. AND NOW HERE WE ARE, WHERE WE ARE WOEFULLY SHORT OF NURSES, AND HERE WE HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTIONS INQUIRY WHICH HAS EXPANDED THE FOCUS, PROMISED A LOT TO THE COMMUNITY, BUT WE WERE ALWAYS SHORT-STAFFED TO EVEN MEET THE MOST SEVERE END OF NEEDS ` HOW CAN WE MANAGE SUCH A BROAD RANGE OF NEED? MM. SO IT IS REALLY CHALLENGING. THE QUESTION NOW IS DO WE REFOCUS ` HOW, AS A SOCIETY, DO WE DETERMINE WHERE OUR LIMITED RESOURCES SHOULD GO? IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO PLACE SOMEBODY IN CUSTODY WHO'S GOT A SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS AND THEY'RE EXTREMELY DISTRESSED, AND THEN BE HELD IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY'RE SUBJECT ESSENTIALLY TO SENSORY DEPRIVATION FOR 23 HOURS A DAY? IS THAT NOT SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE URGENTLY ADDRESSED? IT BREACHES MANY LEGAL STANDARDS AND AGREEMENTS THAT NEW ZEALAND'S A SIGNATORY TO. I THINK IT'S ILLEGAL TO DO IT, BY THE WAY, BUT IT IS HAPPENING EVERY DAY. THAT'S DR ERIK MONASTERIO. NOW, WE ASKED TE WHATU ORA EXACTLY HOW MANY PSYCHIATRISTS HAVE LEFT THE PUBLIC SERVICE IN RECENT YEARS. THEY TOLD US THE REQUEST WILL HAVE TO BE TREATED AS AN OFFICIAL INFORMATION ACT REQUEST, SO WE'RE STILL WAITING TO HEAR THE NUMBERS. IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT Q+A TEAM, PLEASE, KORERO MAI. THESE ARE OUR MAIN PLATFORMS. EMAIL US, FIND US ON X, OR ON FACEBOOK. NEXT ON Q+A ` HOT TAKES FROM A HUGE YEAR. OUR PANEL CONSIDERS THE POLITICS SHIFTS OF 2023 AND THE CHANGES THAT ARE COMING OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS. I KNOW WHAT THIS JOB TAKES, AND I KNOW I NO LONGER HAVE ENOUGH IN THE TANK TO DO IT JUSTICE. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. THAT WAS HOW THE 2023 POLITICAL YEAR BEGAN ` THE THEN-PRIME MINISTER JACINDA ARDERN ANNOUNCING HER RESIGNATION. JUST 10 MONTHS ON, AND THE DYNAMICS IN OUR POLITICS HAVE TOTALLY SHIFTED. WE'RE FINISHING IT WITH A THREE-PARTY COALITION, A NEW PRIME MINISTER, AND AN AGGRESSIVE LEGISLATIVE AGENDA WHICH WILL UNPICK MANY OF LABOUR'S BIGGEST REFORMS. HERE TO CONSIDER THE SHIFT IN POLITICAL DYNAMICS IS OUR FINAL PANEL FOR 2023. JENEE TIBSHRAENY IS NZME'S WELLINGTON BUSINESS EDITOR; LIAM HEHIR IS A MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL PARTY; AND LABOUR'S JO BARTLEY IS AN AUCKLAND COUNCILLOR. KIA ORA KOUTOU. THANKS FOR BEING WITH US. LET'S START OFF BY CONSIDERING THE SHIFT. SINCE JANUARY AND THE RESIGNATION, HOW MUCH HER POLITICAL DYNAMICS CHANGED? I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN EVENTS AND THE OVERALL FORCES AND TRENDS SHAPING THE SELECTION. AT THE TIME OF THE RESIGNATION, LABOUR WAS STILL SLIGHTLY AHEAD AND CONTINUE TO DO SO UNTIL ABOUT MAY. BUT YOU SAW THIS CONTINUAL EROSION OF SUPPORT FOR LABOUR AFTER THE KING TIDE ELECTION OF 2020. GRAVITY REASSERTS ITSELF. THE FORCES AND TRENDS THAT SHAPE THIS ELECTION WHERE THE ECONOMIC ISSUES AND COST OF LIVING AND THINGS LIKE THAT. WHAT IS YOUR SENSE? I HAVE A LABOUR BRANDED CAR. I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE COME UP TO ME AND GIVE ME THEIR OPINION. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID THAT THEY USED TO SUPPORT LABOUR BUT IT WAS THE LOCKDOWN THAT GOT THEM. THAT IS WHY THE SELECTION THEY WEREN'T GOING TO VOTE NATIONAL OR GO THAT FAR, BUT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO VOTE. I THINK THAT PROBABLY WOULD BE A LOT OF PEOPLE FEELING THAT WAY. IT WAS THE LOCKDOWN. THERE IS ALSO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE VIBE IN WELLINGTON AND AUCKLAND. IM BASED IN WELLINGTON. IT IS ACTUALLY UPBEAT. THE PUBLIC SECTOR HAS BEEN GOING GREAT. YOU GO TO A BAR ANY NIGHT OF THE WEEK, AND IT IS BUSY. BUT IN AUCKLAND, THEY ARE VERY SCARRED BY THOSE LOCKDOWN. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT A VICTORIA UNIVERSITY EVENT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. THOSE OUTSIDE OF AUCKLAND, WE TOTALLY UNDERESTIMATED HOW LASTING THAT SECOND LOCKDOWN WAS. WE DIDN'T GET A SENSE OF IT, THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. WHILST THIS SHIFT INEVITABLE? I THINK SO. I THINK WE SHOULDN'T UNDERESTIMATE THE IMPACT OF COVERT. THE CHANGES THAT WE SAW TO OUR ECONOMY WERE ENORMOUS. WE SHUT BORDERS DOWN AND HAD HUGE SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES AND PUMPED A LOT OF STIMULUS IN. THAT DOES NOT COME FOR FREE. WE ARE STILL DEFINITELY IN THE PERIOD OF A HANGOVER FROM THAT CONTINUING ON. PEOPLE VOTE ON BACK POCKET ISSUES. IF PRICES ARE GOING UP AND YOUR MORTGAGE PAYMENTS ARE GOING UP, THOSE ARE THE KEY THINGS THAT PEOPLE VOTE ON. IT IS INEVITABLE. EDITORS NOT GOING AWAY. NATIONAL STILL FACES A CHALLENGE AROUND THAT. HIPKINS BECAME PRIME MINISTER AND IMMEDIATELY SOUGHT TO DISTINCTION HIMSELF FROM HIS PREDECESSOR. BUT HAD PROBLEMS WITH HIS CABINET. STUART NASH HAS FUNDAMENTALLY BREACHED MY TRUST AND THE TRUST OF HIS CABINET COLLEAGUES. I LEFT A MESSAGE FOR MEKA. I WOULD EXPECT IF THERE WAS ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT HAPPENING IN THAT AREA THAT SHE WOULD GIVE ME A CALL AND LET ME KNOW THAT. THIS MORNING I HAVE ADVISED THE GOVERNOR GENERAL TO ACCEPT MICHAEL WOOD'S RESIGNATION AS A MINISTER. THIS AFTERNOON I HAVE WORKED TO REALLOCATE KIRI ALLAN'S MINISTERIAL PORTFOLIOS ACROSS EXISTING MINISTERS. WHEN YOU CONSIDER SOME OF THOSE PERSONNEL ISSUES, HOW MUCH DID THAT IMPACT LABOUR'S FORTUNES? OF COURSE PEOPLE SEE THAT AND THEY THINK, OH, AS THE SHIP GOING WELL IF PEOPLE ARE RESIGNING? I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE WOULD THINK THERE ARE SOME MAJOR ISSUES GOING ON THERE. BUT IF I COULD JUST GO BACK TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE FINANCIAL HANGOVER AND WHAT WE SEE FROM COVID AND IN OUR COMMUNITIES AFTER THE LOCKDOWN IS A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE HAVING TO GO TO WORK WHILE THEY ARE AT SCHOOL BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS LOST THEIR JOBS DURING THE PANDEMIC RESPONSE. IN TERMS OF THE FINANCIAL HANGOVER, IT IS ONGOING. SO MANY PEOPLE REQUESTING FOOD PARCELS THAT NEVER USED TO REQUEST FOOD PARCELS. IT IS A REALLY DIFFICULT TIME RIGHT NOW FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP, OF COURSE, THAT WOULD HAVE HAD AN IMPACT BECAUSE PEOPLE LOOK FROM THE OUTSIDE AND SEE, WHY ARE ALL OF YOUR MEMBERS LEAVING? I THINK IT'S A SYMPTOM MORE THAN A CAUSE. WHEN THINGS ARE GOING WELL PEOPLE TEND TO RALLY BEHIND THE LEADER. WHEN THINGS ARE GOING BADLY, THEY FEEL MORE LICENCE TO ACT OUT. LOOK AT THE NATIONAL PARTY. USED TO BE FULL OF INFIGHTING. A LOT OF THE SAME PEOPLE ARE NOW UNITED BECAUSE THEY HAVE THEIR TAILS UP IN THE WIND BEHIND THEIR BACK. HOW DO YOU RATE CHRISTOPHER LUXON'S PERFORMANCE THIS YEAR? HE HAS IMPROVED A LOT. WASN'T TOO LONG AGO THAT HE WAS MAKING MISTAKES AND NICOLA WILLIS HAD TO COME BEHIND HIM AND SWEEP IT UP. VERY ENERGETIC. I AM STILL YET TO REALLY GET A SENSE THAT HE CAN SIT DOWN AND HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION, CONNECT TO HIM, TALK TO HIM BEYOND PARTY LINES AND SLOGANS. DOES THAT MATTER? YES, IT DOES. I LOOK AT THEIR PLAN. THERE ARE THINGS ABOUT THE REGIONAL FUEL TAX. COOL, BUT THE FUNDS THAT WE USED TO DO INFRASTRUCTURE ARE CONNECTED TO THE REGIONAL FUEL TAX. WE HAVE MASSIVE WAITING TIMES AT MIDDLEMORE. THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WAITING IN THEIR ARE MAORI AND PASIFIKA. MORE BEDS. YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH THAT DAY PLAN. 49 ACTIONS THAT WILL DEFINE THE PRIORITIES OF THE GOVERNMENT OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS. HOW YOU RATE LUXON? I THINK HE WAS ALWAYS AN UNNATURAL FIT FOR AN OPPOSITION LEADER. INTERESTINGLY, HE WASN'T. GOOD AT PERSONALLY ATTACKING PEOPLE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY AN UGLY THING BUT QUITE IMPORTANT AS AN OPPOSITION LEADER. I THINK HE WILL BE A MUCH STRONGER PERFORMER AS PER MINISTER THEN AS OPPOSITION LEADER. WE WILL HAVE TO SEE HIM MAKE THE BEST OF HIS TALENTS IN THE COMING YEAR. I THINK HE HAS IMPROVED A LOT OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR. HE IS IN HIS ELEMENT NOW. IT TOOK SO LONG TO FORM A GOVERNMENT AND MISSING OUT ON APEC. COME ON. WE NEED TO BE THERE. HOW MANY MEN DOES IT TAKE TO FORM A GOVERNMENT? SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE HUNDRED DAY PLAN INVOLVES REPEALING OR REMOVING LEGISLATION THAT THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT HAD IN PLACE. DOES THAT MATTER? IS IT UNUSUAL? I THINK IT IS EXPECTED. NEW ADMINISTRATIONS COME IN AND WANT TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY. THIS IS THE EASY BIT, RIGHT ` GETTING RID OF THE LEGISLATION. THE DIFFICULT PART IS DECIDING WHAT TO REPLACE IT WITH. THREE WATERS AND RMA ARE HUGE PIECES OF WORK. THE REAL CHALLENGE IS FIGURING OUT WHAT TO REPLACE IT WITH. BISHOP THIS MORNING INDICATED THAT IT WILL TAKE AT LEAST THIS TERM TO REPLACE THE RMA. CLEARLY, THE MASSIVE REFORMS WILL TAKE SOME TIME. AS IT UNUSUAL TO SEE THIS MUCH OF THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT'S LEGISLATIVE CHANGE REVERSED? MUCH MORE THAN OTHER CHANGES OF POWER, THERE IS A MEANINGFUL DISTINCTION IN THE IDEOLOGY OF THE TWO GOVERNMENTS. OFTEN IT'S THE CHANGE FROM A GOVERNMENT THAT'S LOOKING A BIT TIRED AND PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING RADICALLY DIFFERENT, BUT YOU TRUST US, YOU CAN TRUST US. YOU ARE BORED WITH WHAT IS GOING ON NOW, BUT WE WON'T CHANGE IT UP TO MUCH. I WAS GOING TO SAY WHEN I READ THEIR PLAN, IT READS LIKE A SCORNED LOVER. SO MANY MENTIONS OF LABOUR IN THERE. I WOULD RATHER THEM FOCUS ON WHAT THE MAJOR ISSUES ARE FOR OUR COUNTRY. WE HAVE 25,000 PEOPLE STILL ON THE WAITING LIST TO GET INTO A HOME. IT IS FIVE YEARS TO GET INTO A STATE HOUSE RIGHT NOW. MENTAL HEALTH, WHAT THE DOCTOR WAS SPEAKING ABOUT BEFORE, THAT IS MAJOR FOR OUR COUNTRY. SAFETY OF COURSE, BUT HOUSING. EVERY WEEK PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN THEIR CARS. THE VERY FIRST BILL THEY WILL BE PUTTING TOWARDS THE HOUSE WILL RETURN THE RESERVE BANK TO A SINGLE REMIT FOCUSED ON INFLATION. IS GOING TO MAKE MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE? IT'S A BIT OF BACK TO THE FUTURE THERE. WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE? PROBABLY NOT. THAT IS MY VIEW. DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. EVEN WHEN THE RESERVE BANK HAD THE SINGLE MANDATE, IT LOOKED AT THE ECONOMY MORE BROADLY AND DON'T UNEMPLOYMENT. DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE ECONOMIC CYCLE, THEY MIGHT BE MORE OF A TRADE-OFF. I TALKED TO THE DEPUTY GOVERNOR RECENTLY, AND HE SAID AT THE MOMENT THERE IS DEFINITELY NO TRADE-OFF. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF INTRODUCING THIS THEN IF THAT IS THE CASE? VIRTUE SIGNALLING. THERE IS ALWAYS A DUAL MANDATE AT LEAST. THE RESERVE BANK DOES NOT EXIST IN ISOLATION. IT TELLS THE RESERVE BANK AND THE PUBLIC THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS SERIOUS ABOUT FIGHTING INFLATION. IS THERE AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE IN A DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT, IF INFLATION WERE MUCH HIGHER, THAT RETURNING IT TO A SINGLE MANDATE MIGHT RETURN THINGS? EXPECTATIONS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT. IF PEOPLE BELIEVE THE RESERVE BANK WILL IN FACT GET ON TOP OF IT, BUSINESSES WON'T LIFT PRICES. THERE MIGHT BE AN ARGUMENT THERE. A PSYCHOLOGICAL ARGUMENT. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THERE ARE STUDIES DONE ON THAT. INTERESTINGLY, THE BANK CAME OUT SUPER HAWKISHLY LAST WEEK, AND OTHERS DIDN'T BELIEVE IT. PEOPLE IN YOUR COMMUNITY CONCERNED ABOUT RISING EMPLOYMENT? ABSOLUTELY. THE CONCERN IS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE EXPLOITED BY THE NEW REFORMS COMING IN. BECAUSE PEOPLE DO GET EXPLOITED. WE LOOK AT THE LOCKDOWN, AND SO MANY PEOPLE WERE MADE TO GO TO WORK EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE IN THEIR WORKPLACE HAD COVID YET MANAGEMENT STAYED HOME. EXHORTATION IS RIFE, AND IT WILL ONLY INCREASE MORE WITH THE CHANGES THAT ARE COMING IN. I WANT TO THINK ABOUT DYNAMICS WITH THE COALITION. IT HAS BEEN VERY INTERESTING TO ME TO WATCH THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SEYMOUR AND PETERS AND LUXON. THE CONTRAST COULD NOT BE MORE STARK DURING THE FIRST PRESS CONFERENCE. LUXON WAS TRYING TO BE THE SLICK AND PROFESSIONAL LEADER. SEYMOUR ALSO. AND PETERS LET IT RIP. THE QUESTION IS WHETHER HE IS DOING THIS TEMPORARILY TO STEM HIS MARK AND SAY TO LUXON, YOU CAN'T CONTROL ME, AND HE WILL COME DOWN OR WHETHER THIS BEHAVIOUR WILL CONTINUE. HE IS ALSO SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO HIS VOTERS. IT IS NOT PANDERING TO THE PRESS GALLERY. '96, '05, '17. I THINK PETERS IS DESPERATE FOR SUPPORT NOT TO PLUMMET AGAIN. I THINK HE WILL TRY TO BE THE SQUEAKY WHEEL THROUGH THE WHOLE TERM. IT'S GOING TO BE HARD. SORRY, LUXON. I DARED REALLY LIKED WINSTON PETERS, BUT WHEN YOU ARE IN THE POSITION OF DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, CAN YOU PLEASE FOCUS ON THE ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED FOR OUR COUNTRY? WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH A LOT. WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE LOCKDOWN AND THE FLOODS AND PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING. THAT IS A WIDE-RANGING OUR COMMUNITY. NOT JUST THOSE ON BENEFITS OR LOW INCOMES BUT ALSO OUR MIDDLE-CLASS. HAVE A WONDERFUL SUMMER BREAK. LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU IN 2024. AFTER THE BREAK ` THERE'S STILL NO PUBLICLY FUNDED ASSESSMENT FOR KIDS WITH DYSLEXIA. BUT WE'LL SHOW YOU THE KURA TAKING THINGS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS. THE EDUCATION MINISTRY SAYS IT'S COMMITTED TO SHAPING AN EDUCATION SYSTEM THAT DELIVERS FAIR OUTCOMES, BUT DIAGNOSIS OF LEARNING DISORDERS REMAINS OUT OF REACH FOR SOME STUDENTS. KURA KAUPAPA FACE EVEN MORE BARRIERS, WITH EDUCATORS CALLING OUT FOR MORE MAORI INTERVENTIONS. BUT ONE KURA SAYS IT'S TIRED OF WAITING, INSTEAD, CREATING A TE REO MAORI DYSLEXIA SCREENING TOOL TO FIND OUT WHICH STUDENTS NEED MORE HELP WITH READING. KATE NICOL-WILLIAMS WITH THIS STORY. (CHILDREN SING WAIATA) LIVING AND LEARNING AS MAORI... ALL: KO NGA TIKANGA NGA HEKE. KO TE WHANAU NGAPOUPOU. ...THE KEY TO KURA KAUPAPA STUDENTS BUILDING CONFIDENCE IN WHO THEY ARE AND WHERE THEY'RE FROM. KIA ORA, PIP. KIA ORA, KATE. KEI TE PEHEA KOE? KEI TE PEHEA KOE? KEI TE PAI. KA PAI. BUT SOME STUDENTS NEED EXTRA HELP WITH THEIR LEARNING, AND GETTING THAT CAN BE DIFFICULT. WHOA! (LAUGHS) (LAUGHTER) THERE'S NO PUBLICLY-FUNDED ASSESSMENTS FOR DYSLEXIA, A CONDITION WHICH MAKES READING A CHALLENGE, AND THERE'S LONG WAITS FOR OTHER DISORDERS TO BE DIAGNOSED. WE HAD A TAMAITI EARLY LAST YEAR THAT WE SUSPECTED MAY HAVE BEEN AUTISTIC, AND SO WE APPROACHED MINISTRY AND THE LOCAL EDUCATIONAL PSYCHOLOGISTS. WE WERE TOLD IT WAS AROUND ABOUT A THREE-YEAR WAIT. NO TAMAITI'S GOT THREE YEARS TO WAIT IN AN EDUCATION SYSTEM. THIS IS THE TAMAITI, OR CHILD, SHE'S TALKING ABOUT. AMONGST THE CLASSROOM CHATTER, ZEPHYR-HOANI KARAITIANA IS FOCUSED ON HIS TASK. LAST YEAR LOOKED VERY DIFFERENT. HE WAS UPSETTING HIS WHOLE CLASSROOM AND JUST HAVING THESE OUTBURSTS IN CLASS. AT 9 YEARS OLD, HER CARING BOY WAS PUSHING HIS PEERS AND TRYING TO WALK OUT THE KURA GATES. ONE OF THE TEACHERS ACTUALLY TOLD ME IT WAS MAINLY DURING READING AND WRITING ` DURING THE ACTUAL CLASSWORK. ANY OTHER TIME HE WAS FINE. SHE SOUGHT OUTSIDE TUITION, AND THE KURA PAID $1300 FOR ASSESSMENT THROUGH A CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST ` A COST THAT SOME KURA AND WHANAU CAN'T COVER. IF IT WASN'T FOR THE TAUTOKO OF THE KURA AND THE PRINCIPAL, THEN` AND HIS TEACHERS, WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE JUST GOT LEFT BEHIND. HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH AUTISM AND DYSLEXIA. HIS MUM SAYS THE WAIT HE COULD HAVE FACED IS UNACCEPTABLE. WHAT WOULD HAVE THOSE THREE YEARS BEEN LIKE FOR YOU GUYS? THE WAY HE WAS GOING, HE PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE AT THE SCHOOL ANY MORE. KA PAI, ZEPHYR. THE KURA DIDN'T STOP THERE, CREATING A SCREENING TOOL WITH THE DYSLEXIA CONSULTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHERE ZEPHYR AND OTHER STUDENTS NEED MORE HELP WITH THEIR READING. IKA, PORO, POAKA, WHARE, POI, PUKAPUKA. I'VE BEEN IN THIS KURA 15 YEARS, AND WE'VE, UM... WE'VE 'NEVER' HAD A DYSLEXIC STUDENT, SO` BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW. IT'S BELIEVED TO BE THE FIRST TE REO MAORI DYSLEXIA ASSESSMENT FOR KURA. TO GIVE THEM A TEST THAT'S IN ENGLISH IS JUST` IT JUST DOES A DISSERVICE. ALTHOUGH HE'S BILINGUAL, I THINK DELIVERING SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE, WHERE HE'S MORE COMFORTABLE IN TE REO MAORI WOULD BE WAY MORE BENEFICIAL FOR BOTH HIM AND THE ONES DOING THE ASSESSMENTS, COS YOU'LL PROBABLY GET MORE OUT OF IT. (STUDENTS SING WAIATA) MOST STUDENTS BETWEEN YEARS 3 AND 12 WILL BE PART OF THE PILOT TEST, SO THE KURA CAN BUILD A BASELINE FOR ACHIEVEMENT. 20 TAMARIKI HAVE BEEN ASSESSED SO FAR, WITH THREE CHILDREN INDICATING DYSLEXIA. SO IT'S NOT TAKING THE PLACE OF AN OFFICIAL DIAGNOSIS FROM A CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S GETTING IN EARLIER IN A SYSTEM THAT'S CURRENTLY OVERLOADED. YEAH, IT'S DEFINITELY NOT LIKE A FORMAL DIAGNOSIS. IT WILL GIVE US AN INDICATION, THOUGH. IN 2019, THE EDUCATION MINISTRY ANNOUNCED ITS LEARNING SUPPORT ACTION PLAN. ONE OF THE PRIORITIES WAS CREATING SCREENING TOOLS FOR LEARNING DIFFICULTIES LIKE DYSLEXIA. THESE WOULD BE AVAILABLE IN BOTH ENGLISH AND TE REO MAORI, BUT SO FAR THIS HASN'T BEEN FUNDED. WHAIKORERO. WAIRARAPA ARE WILLING TO SHARE THEIR TOOL ONCE IT'S FULLY DEVELOPED (SPEAKS TE REO MAORI) THE COUNTRY'S FIRST KURA KAUPAPA SAYS IT'S A GROUNDBREAKING DEVELOPMENT. TUMUAKI AND KURA THROUGHOUT THE MOTU, KURA A IWI, KURA KAUPAPA MAORI WILL BE ABSOLUTELY OVER THE MOON. TO HEAR WHAT WAIRARAPA ARE TAKING THE INITIATIVE, AND THE MINISTRY OF EDUCATION ` YOU KNOW, IF YOU ASK ME, THEY NEED TO RUN IN THERE, SPRINT IN THERE AND GET BEHIND THEIR KURA. (TEACHER SPEAKS TE REO) (CHILDREN REPLY IN TE REO) HOANI WAITITI'S USED TO MAKING DO WITH WHAT THEY HAVE TOO, BUT THE LACK OF RESOURCING'S FELT IN MULTIPLE AREAS ` HOW THERE'S NO GYMNASIUM FOR THE PRIMARY AND HIGH SCHOOL AND NOT ENOUGH LEARNING SUPPORT. TEACHERS DO THEIR BEST TO CATER TO THE WIDE RANGE OF STUDENTS, BUT DIFFICULTIES CAN REMAIN UNDIAGNOSED. WE'VE ALSO GOT TAMARIKI WHO ARE STRONG` WHO ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO CREATE THEIR OWN SYSTEMS AND STRONG ENOUGH TO CREATE THEIR OWN STRATEGIES, WE'VE ALSO GOT TAMARIKI WHO ARE STRONG` WHO ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO CREATE THEIR OWN SYSTEMS AND STRONG ENOUGH TO CREATE THEIR OWN STRATEGIES, BUT THERE WILL BE THOSE THAT WILL FALL THROUGH THE GAPS AND` AND... YOU KNOW, IT'S TOUGH. IT'S TOUGH BECAUSE` JUST COS WE` ONE, WE CAN'T... WE DON'T HAVE THE MEANS TO BE ABLE TO ASCERTAIN WHERE THE TAMAITI IS AT. HE'S HOPEFUL ABOUT A $40 MILLION PROJECT INVOLVING THE EDUCATION MINISTRY AND KURA ORGANISATIONS. KIA TIKA. KIA TIKA. THIS WILL FUND THE CREATION OF A LEARNING SUPPORT COORDINATION SYSTEM THAT ALIGNS WITH TE AO MAORI, THE MAORI WORLDVIEW. WHEN YOU HEAR THEY'RE WORKING ALONGSIDE THE RUNANGA, THOSE OF US WITHIN KURA KAUPAPA MAORI, AT HOANI WAITITI, WE GO, 'YAY!' YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE KNOW IT'S NOT GOING TO JUST BE SOME AD HOC THING THAT'S PUT TOGETHER OR A STRAIGHT TRANSLATION OF SOMETHING ELSE THAT JUST` 'HERE YOU GO, KURA KAUPAPA MAORI, NOW BE QUIET.' YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GO OVER THERE INTO THAT CORNER AND BE QUIET BECAUSE YOU'RE GETTING A BIT NOISY WHILE WE'RE WORKING OVER HERE. (STUDENTS SING WAIATA) BACK IN WAIRARAPA, STAFF ARE FEELING POSITIVE ABOUT THE CHANGES THEY'RE MAKING. APART FROM THE TESTING, THEY'RE SWITCHING UP THE CLASSROOM LAYOUT TO BETTER SUIT STUDENTS AND ARE REFERRING TO THE MARAMATAKA, OR MAORI LUNAR CALENDAR, TO GUIDE THEIR TIMETABLE. IT'S ALLOWED US TO BE SO MUCH CALMER AND SO MUCH MORE RESPONSIVE TO OUR TAMARIKI. (GENTLE MUSIC) ZEPHYR-HOANI'S NOW MUCH MORE CONFIDENT IN READING AND WRITING. WHAT SPELLS C-O-F-F-E-E? COFFEE. MM-HM. YEAH. COFFEE-BEAN SACK. HE ACTUALLY LOVES LEARNING. IT'S JUST I THINK... MAYBE COS NO ONE UNDERSTOOD WHY HE WAS HAVING SO MUCH OUTBURSTS` HE DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND, I DON'T THINK. THE IMPACT OF A DIAGNOSIS AND AN ENVIRONMENT THAT NURTURES WHO HE IS SETTING HIM UP FOR A BRIGHT FUTURE. (LAUGHTER) LET'S GO! HEI AKUANEI ` WE'RE BACK AFTER THE BREAK. KUA MUTU ` THAT'S Q+A FOR THIS WEEK, AND FOR THIS YEAR. BEFORE WE WRAP, A COUPLE OF QUICK THANKS. I WANT TO THANK NEW ZEALAND ON AIR FOR THEIR SUPPORT IN MAKING Q+A. I WANT TO THANK OUR PRODUCTION TEAM ` IRRA, SIOBHAN, WHENA, CARA, AND ALEX ` AND OUR BOSSES LAURA AND PHIL, ALL OF THE STUDIO CREW AND PRODUCTION TEAM WHO MAKE THIS SHOW EVERY WEEK. AND FINALLY I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. I'M UNDER NO ILLUSIONS THERE IS A LOT COMPETING FOR YOUR ATTENTION, AND I'M HUMBLED BY THE NUMBER OF NEW ZEALANDERS WHO VALUE THE STORIES, SUBJECTS, AND INTERVIEWS WE BRING YOU EVERY WEEK. I FEEL INCREDIBLY PRIVILEGED TO WORK ON THIS SHOW. WE ARE DELIGHTED TO CONFIRM Q+A WILL BE BACK FOR 2024. UNTIL THEN ` HAVE A GREAT SUMMER. A GREAT HOLIDAY. NGA MIHI O TE TAU HOU. HAPPY NEW YEAR. HEI TERA TAU. WE'LL SEE YOU IN 2024. CAPTIONS BY LENA ERAKOVICH AND KRISTIN WILLIAMS. CAPTIONS BY LENA ERAKOVICH AND KRISTIN WILLIAMS. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2023