- Korihi po, korihi ao. Ko Rongo i turia ki te marowhara no tu. Ko Tutewiniwini, Tutewanawana. Ko tu i whakaputaina ki te whei ao, ki te ao marama. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e. This week, on the first episode for 2024 of The Hui ` the wave is coming. From iwi chairs to grassroots activists, Maori are uniting against the new government and their tough talk on Te Tiriti. - It's certainly the worst of what I've seen in my lifetime. - Yeah, it's pretty much game on. - Plus ` Tamaki Makaurau-based slam poets Rehe Korero perform their new piece about Te Tiriti. - But this reo crawled it's way out beneath the cracks, forged a path of re-indigenising the land. We can't referendum our way out of this history. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2024 - Nga mate pure i te motu whanui, haere mai haere. Tatou e whakaurupa mai nei i a ratou ma ki te hinengaro tangata. Tihewa Mauriora! And welcome back to this, our first episode for The Hui for 2024. The call for kotahitanga, or unity, is ringing throughout te iwi Maori in response to this government's new direction. The ACT Party's Treaty Principles Bill seeks tino rangatiratanga for all New Zealanders under Te Tiriti O Waitangi. Now this proposal has set off a torrent of action and debate from all four winds of te ao Maori. Mea nei te purongo a Meriana Johnson. - A new dawn for te iwi Maori. Flocking in their thousands ` first at Hui aa Motu, hosted by the Kingitanga, then on to Ratana and finally culminating at Waitangi, where politicians and activists met head-on. - And those people who think they can change those basic facts by singing over me, I got news for you. There's people up and down the country watching you, and they're asking, 'Why do those people have a right 'to stop the rest of New Zealand debating its own future?' - Toitu Te Tiriti protesters were among the voices singing down the government. - It's not just waiata for the sake of waiata. This is a political realm. I think a lot of us have forgotten as well that marae is the epicentre of politics for te ao Maori and always has been. - Everything that was done on the atea that day was above board, and that was our protocol. And a lot of those gentlemen, those pricks that were sitting there, didn't realise that. - Now a month on from Waitangi, is the movement running out of steam? - I don't think so. I think that the momentum is growing and building. I think that the discussions and the wananga are continuing not only on a national scale, but within various iwi and hapu and marae. They're talking about it around their breakfast table. - Rahui Papa attended the latest Iwi Chairs Forum in Rotorua. His iwi, Waikato-Tainui, have moved the fight to the courts, with a legal claim to protect their Treaty settlement reached in 1995. - We believe that there is some notion of unpicking some of those settlement mechanisms that were agreed in 1995, and part of that is te reo, and we particularly think that te reo is a taonga guaranteed under Te Tiriti O Waitangi, and that is a particular die-in-the-ditch kaupapa for Waikato-Tainui. - Professor Margaret Mutu has been fighting for iwi and hapu sovereignty for over 40 years. - And when I hear politicians saying that they want to empower us to make our own decisions about our own lives, I want to take them at their word. So, you dispossessed us. You took all of our resources away. We need resources back in order to be able to walk our own talk, to exercise our mana motuhake, to give us back the resources. That's all we're asking. - What has been gained back, she says, is now at risk. - We have been clawing back just tiny amounts of what we were entitled to. What these policies do is strip back those things. So it's certainly the worst of what I've seen in my lifetime. - The ACT Party is set to introduce a new bill changing the meaning of the principles, removing current references to Maori. Many iwi leaders support change, but not like this. - The principles of the treaty should never, ever have come into being. There is just one treaty. It is the treaty that was debated. It's the treaty that was agreed to. It's the treaty that was signed and that is Te Tiriti O Waitangi ` what we call Te Tiriti O Waitangi. It's the Maori language treaty. - Instead of creating new principles, they want Te Tiriti to be honoured. - So, as far as Maori are concerned, we only ever agreed to... Te Tiriti O Waitangi. You do not need principles. - A view shared by the next generation of Te Tiriti advocates. - So why would you need principles to simplify something that's already very simple? We never ceded sovereignty. - They are taking their protest to new turf. - And I think after Waitangi also, we showed the government that we can play in our field and in our grounds. We need to take this to theirs. - A draft Treaty Principles Bill has yet to be introduced to Parliament, but regardless, these activists are prepping their next play. - There's gonna be some type of whawhai, he whawhai rangimarie ano, but it probably will be in Wellington, and that activation will probably happen in the next few months. Yeah, it's pretty much game on. (HIP`HOP MUSIC) - Haere mai te korero. Three Hui aa Motu. Protests. Kotahitanga. So how will Maori continue to respond to current government Maori policy in the ongoing quest for rangatiratanga through, perhaps, kotahitanga? To discuss this and much more, we have Maori lawyer and long-time Maori and indigenous rights advocate Annette Sykes. Annette, tena koe. We also have Kawea Law and Consultancy Ltd director and rangatahi spokesperson at the Turangawaewae National Hui, Piripi Winiata. Piripi, nau mai, e hoa. - Tena koe. - And we also have raconteur, radio host, and political commentator, Shane Te Pou. Hoki mai, e hoa. - Tena koe. - Tena koutou katoa. Nau mai ra, nau mai ra. Annette, you spoke passionately at Waitangi. I think the message was clearly received. Where are we now? - I think that there has been a groundswell of organisation post-Waitangi, and the Crown should be very, very concerned because we haven't been silenced. I think a lot of people thought we'd go to Waitangi, let off some steam, and that would be it. In my own iwi, we're having several decolonisation wananga, headed by young people, our rangatahi ropu. We're working together within our tribal constructs of Pikiao, Whakaue, Tuhourangi, but we're planning to have our own hui, and we're working with Kingitanga, Ratana and other groups that promote kotahitanga to set a clear agenda of a united... face, to protest what is happening, in the undermining of our rights. - I'm glad you've said that, because it feels like things that were fiercely fought for have been slowly but surely picked off ` actually, quickly picked off, if you have a look at Te Aka Whai Ora ` so I'm glad to hear that their organisation is ongoing. What do you say to some, though, they might say they're concerned because it feels like the government is going to continue to pick off those things that have been fiercely fought for? - I think what we've gotta be really careful is that the Crown wants us to look at things like the Treaty of Waitangi Principles Bill while they actually take resources through other ways. And there are a number of pieces of legislation at the moment as part of their agenda ` for example, the fast track consenting bill. There's issues in place to actually start to roll over in the deep sea environment, aquaculture and marine licences. Those are actually taking away resources that Maori own, and they haven't actually been quantified in legal constructs. So Maori need to be really clear, and we need multiple strategies to be aware of that, and not be diverted to the cosmetic changes that are being made, but actually unite together in strategies of rangatiratanga and kotahitanga to set up structural opposition to what's occurring in every form. - Piripi, your summary at the plenary at Turangawaewae was exemplary, on behalf of rangatahi that were there. What are you looking for now, then, following on from that hui and from Waitangi, given what we're dealing with politically, with the current government coalition? - There was` One of the really critical messages that came out of the rangatahi forum was the importance of not centring` you heard me say` not centring the fight in Wellington, not centring the fight in the sphere of kawanatanga. Our young people absolutely understand that that is a critical part of the fight, a fight that people like taku whaea Annette have been fighting for a very long time, but to also understand that, you know, we've` we're 40 years into things, to kaupapa like kohanga reo and kura kaupapa, which have trained the generations of now to think and see the world differently. And so the fight that we're seeing now needs to grow and evolve and adapt to fit this reanga, which means there is a huge part of this fight which is about, actually, self-determination, rangatiratanga, the sphere of rangatiratanga. I heard Eru speaking earlier about, you know, their big` his big push is about we never ceded sovereignty, right? Helping our people understand that. It's about practising that. So it's not just an academic argument, but actually self-determination as a practice. And it's being exemplified by those` by our leaders who are speaking about things like the role of good government, what that means, in honouring Te Tiriti O Waitangi and so on. - Shane Te Pou, the government's doing exactly what it said it was going to do. I mean, yes, it has curtailed the tribunal with Te Aka Whai Ora, but it's pretty much` it's ticking off what it said it was going to do as a coalition government in that agreement. - On steroids. No, if you look at the attack on Te Tiriti, you look on the attack on our` our new health construct that really didn't get a chance to get up and running, we ain't seen nothing yet, folks. Wait till they enact their economic policy, which is based on austerity, which is based on rising unemployment. You've got` if you've got 5% general population unemployment, you've got 8% in the regions, you've got 12% for Maori. Last time we had 12% for Maori. That's generational unemployment. And that is the economic construct which simply means the poor stay poor ` and there's more of them ` and the rich get richer. We haven't seen anything yet. Wait till they get their economic apparatus up and running. - You mention that phrase, and I do want to pick up on that after the break about financial austerity, because I want to know where the whakapapa of that comes from. I also want to talk about kotahitanga. What do we do about kotahitanga? That is what people said they wanted to do, following the three Hui aa Motu, particularly after Waitangi. Taihoa ake e te iwi. He korero ano ka purero ake ainei. We have more from our panel after the break. - Nau hoki mai ra, e te iwi. Ki ta tatou hui tuatahi tenei tou. We have Maori lawyer and long-term Maori and indigenous rights advocate, Annette Sykes, we have Piripi Winiata, the Kawea Law director, and political commentator Shane Te Pou. E mihi ana ki a koutou` tatou katoa. Annette, the word 'kotahitanga' came up a lot. I even mentioned it in the introduction, and people kept saying that word throughout Te Hui aa Motu, Kingi Tuheitia, Ratana pa, Waitangi tribunal. How do we get there? Is that even possible? - I think we need to be realistic and recognise that there's a spectrum of objectives within the framework of kotahitanga, and it must be built on hapu rangatiratanga, which is at odds with the treaty settlement arrangements that are built on constructs of large natural groups and blankets being thrown over organised groups for political convenience. Then we need to actually look, I think, at the kind of strategies of whanaungatanga. Our whakapapa cements kotahitanga, and the whakapapa of the movements of the kotahitanga movement ` of the Waitangi Action Committee, movement, of the new movement, Toitu Te Tiriti movement. All of those constructs are built on struggle, are built on the need to maintain identity in the face of adversity. And we need to show the statesmanship-like leaders of... For me, it was Hepi Te Heuheu during the fiscal envelope introduction and the Hirangi Hui where we gathered as the motu regularly to challenge the Crown about the theft of our resources. And to be really conscious that there is a deliberate effort by a small group of politicians to develop White hatred against Maori. - Yes. - And we need to counteract that racism with our ideas of aroha tetahi ki tetahi. - Kia ora. - This austerity we talk about will be felt by Pacific Islanders, by Maori, by vulnerable Pakeha groups, and we need to work together. That's kotahitanga also, and I've seen it happen during the '80s. I've seen it happen into the '90s, and we are much more ready, I think, now than ever, in any decade, for the challenges that we can actually push back on. - Are we ready because we've got, as Piripi talks about` we've got a fairly conscious movement, particularly from rangatahi now, who are keen to get involved. We saw that at Waitangi. - You've gotta thank the Kohanga Reo movement, the Kura Kaupapa movement, the Whare Wananga movement, but, you know, I wasn't as articulate as these young men and women that I saw it Turangawaewae, but they also have an intellectual and emotional understanding of matters because of this artificial intelligence environment which we all work in. And they are` I think they are the leaders now, not tomorrow. We keep talking about rangatahi are our leaders of tomorrow. We need to make way to support that leadership now. That's hard. Many of us were actually denied that leadership, but we've actually, I think, my generation, 60-plus, we've actually got to work in a solid way to support the leadership that's right in front of us. - Piripi? Piki mahi? - Piki mahi, e mea hana koe. (LAUGHS) - Would anyone? Would anyone? - E rongoa nau te tau mahi aku po... (LAUGHS) But I wanna say... E whakarongo ano ki taku whaea ana, ko te wairuatanga korou, ne, utu a te whakaaro iti ki te whakaaro nui. You know, koe nei te teo o nga koranga tuku iho. And I think when you talk about the new face of protests, you know, taku reanga, me nga mea tamariki ake au, who are coming up through the protest movement and really active in spaces like social media in particular. It's so important for us. Kia mau ki tera whakaaro. You know, kia rangatira... E ki ai tatou he rangatira ki runga i o tatou whenua, me rangatira te ahua o ta tatou kaui a tatou. You know, and so that, for me, that is the exact thing that that Whaea Annette's talking about. - You made a comment, actually, in that plenary session. You said there are leaders here today who speak about mana motuhake and tino rangatiratanga but don't act out those words. - Yeah. - Is that what you're talking about here? - It felt like a risky comment at that time, but I just` (LAUGHS) it just slipped off my tongue because that was actually a general kind of korero that was coming from the rangatahi, was we've been called together for kotahitanga, but, you know, taku kainga kare au kite a nei te kotahitanga. - So ` and I asked this of Annette ` is that possible? Is it probable? - Maybe it's my youthful optimism, but I believe yes, absolutely ` in the right circumstances. And we have the right circumstances, which is a common focus point for the battle, which is why I think we see so many of our young people coming through. They've been wanting to fight, and they've seen those go before us who have fought hard. And it's hard to fight when you've got a friendly government, you know? - So let's talk about that, because we've got some of our own... - Yes. - ...in some pretty crucial leadership positions, and I talk of one of my own whanaunga from Te Kapotai. They were all from` Shane Reti. - They're all from your way. You got a lot to answer for. (LAUGHTER) - Could mention some other names. Tama Potaka... - And some of the good ones! - Went to school with that one. - Before this becomes about me! But, you know, what about that? I mean, um... - Frankly, Julian, they ought to be embarrassed, but I've seen I've seen my very good friend Shane Jones try to talk it back, try to almost whakaiti himself, if you have a look at some of his interviews post-Te Tiriti, because at the end of the day, eh, politics and being a minister is fleeting. You do have to go back to your people at the end of the day. Those are the people that are gonna look after you in your old age. I think there is some reflection in relation to that. But if I go back to the central point that I made the first time around, it's all about that economic construct. And I don't think that it's the Maori politicians that have their hands on those particular tillers. - Yeah, well, what I think people find unconscionable is that pragmatism has trumped principle. I mean, when you look at what happened with Shane Reti and Te Aka Whai Ora, where the Waitangi Tribunal was ready to take submissions and have that hearing on Te Aka Whai Ora, and the Crown move ` led by one of our own. - Mm. - But it's worse than that, though, Julian. At Waitangi, we had the Prime Minister say that he would not tinker with treaty principles or treaty settlements. Te Aka Whai Ora is a treaty settlement. - Yes. - There was a hearing, a significant hearing of the stage 1 health inquiry, and there was a negotiation between significant health leaders with the Crown, which resulted in Te Aka Whai Ora. And they have tinkered with that treaty settlement. So he speaks with forked tongue for me, and we as Maori need to identify when they speak truth or they're creating a false consciousness for us. And they are now already starting to unpick treaty principles and unpick treaty settlements. The first was Te Aka Whai Ora. - And unpick the tribunal? - They're trying to do that, but I think they're fearful of that. And it goes back to the establishment of the tribunal itself. Remember, it was set up in 1975 to look forward, and then it was after protest that we got it to have jurisdiction back to 1840. They are now saying that it needs to be reviewed, but really, it needs to be reviewed because there are a lot of settlements still to occur. Ngapuhi! - Yes. - 200,000 people. They deserve to have a settlement. The tribunal needs to supervise to make sure that there's a momentum to capture that. The tribunal has an ongoing role because it also` it's the conscience of the nation for me, and key issues about water ` management of resources and looking after this country, not just for Maori, but for all of us that value those resources. - Ongoing issues... - And also if we` Yeah, and can I say that if you have a facilitation or a political process without the tribunal, it can be easily unpicked. - We will come back. We've got more, much more, after this. Kia ita tonu mai, e te iwi. After the break, we have more from our panellists and a special presentation from award-winning slam poets Rehe Korero. - As I said, we've got more, and here we are. Kua hoki mai koutou, tena koutou katoa. Let's get into it. Piripi, kei a koe. (LAUGHS) - (LAUGHS) I just want to pick up from where we left off with taku whaea i konei e korero ana mo Te Aka Whai Ora, because I think it speaks to one of the really core issues that's come up in the general discourse around Te Tiriti at the moment. And that is that there's a view that the government believes it knows best on how to address inequity. And that is the reason` Regardless of whether or not Te Aka Whai Ora is working or not, that is the reason it shouldn't work because they've got a better idea. And I think that that is a complete misrepresentation of what Te Tiriti is, because Te Tiriti guaranteed us the right to self-determination, to determine for ourselves what solutions will do. It doesn't require us to be in an inequitable space. It doesn't require us to have an expectation that we'll die younger for us to have self-determination. That isn't the basis of self-determination. It exists as a right within Te Tiriti O Waitangi. So moving away from that basis of Te Tiriti O Waitangi is a partnership which guaranteed self-determination and rangatiratanga and those sorts of things, to we need solutions that address inequities ` for me, that's wrong. You know, whether it's crime or health or education, whatever it is, actually, we have a right to self-determination, to determine what success looks like for us and then to implement what success looks like for us. - Piripi's absolutely right. We are gonna see more of this because this is the government's approach. Aren't we, Shane? - Yeah, I think we've had` But I think what we will benefit from as Maori people, is a greater cohesion. And I think the alignment between our protest movement, the litigators and our parliamentarians, and I think that's the level of cohesion, really, that a coalition government hasn't come up against. And we've got some very smart, articulate and with-it people. - You can't forget the capitalists. You know, Maori development has come off the back of astute capitalist development and marshalling of resources. Now, I'm not a capitalist, but I've actually admired the way that they've grown the Maori asset base. So we've got land trusts and corporations who are significant players in the external economy, in the international economy So the four of those groups working together are a formidable force that can't be ignored. - This is a good segue, then, into what I was going to ask, which is we think two, maybe three, now, Hui aa Motu coming up ` timing TBC. What do you want to see? What action do you want to see from those Hui aa Motu, Annette? - Well, I'd like to see some direct action workshops, because direct action can take many forms. One of them is protest, but one is also education and material to distribute on how we develop, strengthen the rangatiratanga sphere. I want the capitalists, the iwi leaders out there. And I'm talking directly to all of you to actually fund the kind of development strategies that our rangatahi are asking for. Many of them at the cusp or just starting in their work. I had no money when I started. We actually used to just do everything. I think the sheep rustling might have been something we were good at back in the day, but you know, that was what we did. I don't want that experience for them, but I do want to support them with proper resources. - I have to leave it there, But I don't know, maybe we'll do a 50 minute extended version after this. E mihi ana ki a koutou katoa. Tena koutou, haere mai. Nga mihi nui ki a koutou katoa. Annette Sykes, Piripi Winiata, Shane Te Pou. E mihi ana ki tapui tamaka. To close out of first show of the season for 2024, the inspiring rangatahi who make up our Rehe Korero. They're not only the high school spoken word Grand Slam champions in Aotearoa, they're also the best across the ditch, taking out the trans-Tasman trophy. The Tamaki-based group are fresh from performing at the Laneway and Splore festivals, Anei a Rehe Korero with their new piece about Te Tiriti O Waitangi. - We, the indigenous people of Aotearoa, ask for the rights entitled to us under the agreement our ancestors signed on February 6 1840. - Her Queen Majesty is an alien. Ration her veggies. - Distribute her goods amongst the people and tell them this is what they asked for when they signed in ink. - Written in blood. - Carved into our history. - In the land wars that followed. - The web of deception that was woven to suck the life out of our whenua. Bury the bodies within it. Build a beehive on top of it. - City-size urupa with skyscrapers for headstones. - Named after dead generals who've never even stepped foot in this country. - Gambled our lives through legislations and laws. - The treaty was a double-edged sword piercing through our ahurea. - But it wasn't meant to be this way. Waitangi was meant to be a conversation to bring peace, to prevent decades of conflict. But the promise of New Zealand. - Only written so England could beat France in a colonial rat race. - The treaty did not change how they treated us. - So a war followed after it. - Like pepi to mama. - Their bones binding the pavement we walk upon. - So when we talk about how all New Zealanders will be the same... - ...remember the thousands upon thousands of tangata whenua who were killed to build this country. A country that disregards their future, sells cigarettes to their mokopuna. A country threatened by the mana they have running through their veins The treaty did not change how they treated us. - Caused our foremothers to learn the reo through agony. Stealing from a people who mourn the worlds they've lost. - In the form of reo, whenua, and whanau. - Shared grievances forced Maori... - ...to become one, united in mamae and hope. - Offered more than a century's worth of manipulation. - With a government that wants to abolish Te Tiriti. - Forced a lie down our throats deemed as a truth. - Forced to live in a system where indigenous rangatahi still have to question their importance - Still yearning for a sense of belonging to what's beneath their feet. - This society. - Those cities. - Our kiwi pride. What will we call ourselves when we realise that's Maori too? - With two blood-stained contracts etched into the back of this country. - Aiming for the destruction of a mother tongue and its knowledge. - Scars lashed around the wrists caused by a wooden paddle. - To stroke the ego of a symbol. - Of a crown. - Of a mindset that the only way to learn a new language is to beat the previous one out. - But this reo clawed its way out beneath the cracks, forged a path of re-indigenising the land. We can't referendum our way out of this history. - We did not ask for a society based on mistranslated articles. - Words written on paper are hollow unless followed by action. - So remember, - # E ngaki... - ...when you make promises you can't keep... - ...know that our mokopuna were born screaming with clenched fists, ready to reclaim what was manipulated and stolen. Toitu te whenua, whatungarongaro te tangata. Toitu te tiriti, whatungarongaro te whenua. - # ... kumara, e. # Hei whangai i te # hunga apopo e. # - Far out, our rangatahi are talented, eh? That is us for The Hui this week. We are back, and we will be here all year in 2024. Our thanks to our panellists, to our guests and also to the team. And thank you for watching this week and join us again next week and every week this year. Kia mau ki te turanga o Taputapuatea. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e. Captions by Kate Harris. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2024. - Ko te reo te take. - Na Te Puna Whakatongarewa Te Hui i tautoko.