Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2024 - Tonight on Sunday ` a victim's family speaks, and for the first time, so too does the murderer who devastated them. - 17 to 20 years of age, approximately 5'8". - I instantly knew that that was me. - What's it like having to identify your own child's body? - It's devastating. - He killed, then ran. - He didn't just take Daryl's life. He took all of ours that night. - Some people would say that what I did is unforgivable. - Now he has a second chance. - People can go down a bad path. But that's not the end of the story. - # I heard... - Connecting to each other and communicating through the music. Yeah, it's a powerful thing. - And how this Aotearoa icon started a musical movement. - 20 years of bringing people together. I can't even articulate what it has meant for people. - Plus, those entrusted to state care. - It was a cross between polytechnic and jail. It was a stepping stone to prison, really. - Abused... - There were some predators in there. - ...and abandoned. - An apology, for me, won't go far enough. Actions speak louder than words. - Kia ora. I'm Miriama Kamo. Sean Selby was 18 when he committed murder, taking the life of another young man, Daryl Graydon. He was imprisoned for 11 years, but he used that time to change his life. Now released, Sean wants to face his crime and succeed despite it. But what about Daryl's whanau? How do they go on? Tonight, an extraordinary story told by both sides in this tragedy. Here's Jehan Casinader. - Some days it's hard to look at myself in the mirror. I've been to some dark places in my life. I've made some very poor choices. I've had to look at myself and find out, what was it that made me do those things? People can go through very hard times, but that's not the end of the story. (GENTLE GUITAR MUSIC) - At 18, Sean Selby had three things on his mind. - Money, travel and education. - Straight out of high school, he signed up for a career in the navy. - Yeah, I was very excited. There was a sense of freedom for me. I saw it as a chance to start something new and forge a new path for myself. - First, he wanted one more Friday night with his mates in East Auckland. - We had just finished our seventh form exams, which was also the completion of our entire school life. We started drinking early. The school year had finished, and I was happy that I was gonna be going into the navy in the new year. - Across town, 24-year-old Daryl Graydon was also getting ready for a big night. Did he go out a lot? - No, he was a home boy. You know how kids get embarrassed of their mums? Well, he wasn't. He used to get mocked for wanting to hang out with his mum. - This Friday night, Louanna would be home alone. Daryl was off to a party. - He started to get ready to go out. He loved his white T-shirts. He used to ask me how I used to get them so white. You know, gotta look good for all the girls. He asked me for a hug. And as he hugged me, he said, 'East Side, eh, Mum?' And I said, 'Till we die, Daryl.' - That was the last time you saw him? - Yeah. - Daryl and Sean had never met, but before the night was over, their lives would collide. Around midnight, Sean and a mate began to head home. - I was happy, but I was very drunk. One of the friends that we walked home with said that I was talking to the moon. As we were walking along the road, a group of about six guys came out of a driveway. - You guys all good? What's funny? - Some words were exchanged. The two of us got into a fight with them, and I got punched. - Do you remember what you were feeling? - Yeah, I was feeling scared. We were outnumbered, and they look bigger than us. And when I got punched, I was angry. We ran back to my friend's house. My friend went inside. He came back out with three knives. He gave me a knife and said, 'We're going back up the road.' I'm thinking, I don't want to go up the road. I don't want to go back there. And he said, 'We're going.' I was hoping we didn't see the guys, and I was hoping that I wouldn't use the knife. (TENSE MUSIC) We got on to Ridge Rd. It was quite bright, with the street lights, and I could see two people walking. - Oi! - My friend pulled out his knives. I did the same thing. I pulled out my knife. - Knife! Run, run! - Sean chased one of those men and came face-to-face with Daryl Graydon, the guy who'd punched him. - He turned around and swung a bottle at me. - The next thing I remember is he was running down the middle of the road with blood running down his arm. - Did you realise what you'd just done? - I knew that I had stabbed him, but I didn't know where, and I didn't know how many times. I ran down a side street with my friend. We jumped over several fences. I heard a police helicopter overhead. I threw my knife into someone's backyard. And then I lay down in someone's garden for what seemed like hours. - Thinking about what? - Thinking that I'd... uh, ruined my future. (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC) - As dawn crept over Panmure, Louanna heard a knock at the door. (KNOCK AT DOOR) - I thought, 'Who's knocking at my door at this hour?' And I looked out my bedroom window, and I saw a policeman. The police officer said there was an altercation and Daryl had been stabbed. And I was just about out of my seat. I gotta get to the hospital. And then he proceeded to tell me that he didn't make it. - What's it like having to identify your own child's body? - It's devastating. It's heartbreaking. I just wanted to hug him, and I couldn't. I wasn't allowed to. - Meanwhile, Sean was waking up with a hangover like no other. - It seemed like a bad dream. And I hoped that it was a bad dream. - How did you realise it wasn't? There was a news report saying that... - 24-year-old Daryl Graydon was stabbed to death while walking home from a party in Howick on Friday night. - And I instantly knew that that was me. - These steak knives are thought to be the murder weapons. - Louanna Graydon calls her son's attackers gutless cowards. - I'll never see my son again. It's not fair. - My stomach dropped. It was like everything went silent. (TENSE MUSIC) - Police began hunting for Daryl's killer. - 17 to 20 years of age, approximately 5'8", with an olive complexion. - How come you didn't just walk into the local police station and say, 'Look, this is what I've done.' - I was in denial at that time. I was 18 years old. I was scared. I just thought my life was over. I think I was in fight or flight. I bought two tickets to Australia, one for me and one for my girlfriend. - So you fled? - Yes. - Next ` Daryl's family wants justice. - Nobody has the right to take somebody else's life. - And a confession on the run. - So, this is Daryl. - This is Daryl, yes. - He's looking pretty sharp in his little leather jacket there. - Oh, he loved that leather jacket. - Louanna Graydon is proud of her son. - These are all the things he used to make at school. I call them my priceless treasures. - But it's been 16 years since she last saw him. - This is Daryl's top. He used to love his white T-shirts. It's not white any more, is it, Daryl? - Wow. You know he's running for his life, and he's been stabbed from behind. - Family was everything to Daryl and to his brother and sister, Lowell and Alana. - I didn't believe it when I first heard it. It was just a shock. I know it's happened, but it just still feels surreal. We didn't even get to say goodbye. - People ask me if I'm all right. No, I'm not all right. - Louanna knew that her son's killer, Sean Selby, had escaped across the Ditch. - While you were planning a new life in Australia, I was planning a funeral for my son. - I was in Australia for three weeks with my girlfriend. I bought my girlfriend a return ticket to New Zealand. And that evening, I tried to kill myself. - First he recorded a confession. A family friend saved me. He came and picked me up from the hotel I was staying in. He'd been in contact with the police, and he said that I needed to hand myself in. - He did. Back in Auckland, Sean was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison. - It's like another world. It's cold, it's scary and it's... lonely. There were long periods of time where I felt hopeless. I think if I didn't have my family, I would have given up. - This was when we were camping one summer holiday. - The person he trusted most? - We made a stack of French toast, which was our favourite. - His younger sister, Natalie. - Why did you choose to stand by Sean? - Because I love him. Yeah, that's it, really. Our bond that we had was so strong that we mutually needed each other, through thick and thin. - Natalie's been one of my biggest supporters when I went to prison. She moved to Wellington to be closer to me. - We'd go and visit him, talk to him on the phone, write him letters. I was really, really concerned for his safety, his well-being, and his mental well-being as well. - In jail, Sean retraced his steps in life to figure out how he'd lost his way. - I grew up in Auckland. My mum and dad broke up when I was 5 years old, and things were pretty hard after that. We often had no food in the cupboards. The power was often turned off. We had to move houses quite a few times. I suffered physical abuse, emotional abuse, verbal abuse and sexual abuse, and those things impacted me greatly as well. I felt really small. I felt worthless. I felt like a piece of shit. In hindsight, I was actually building anger and resentment, but I didn't realise it as a young boy. When I became a teenager, I started drinking with my friends. It was normal for us to get into fights. My worries disappeared. I was able to get out of my head. Yeah, drinking was an escape. - That escape landed him in prison, where he finally got the help he needed. - Hello. - Kia ora. Good to see you. - You too. - In therapy, Sean came out of his shell. - I slowly started opening up and talking about the things that had happened to me and the things that I'd done. - When Sean could be honest with himself about what he'd experienced and what had hurt him, I think that opened the door to him being able to see how he'd hurt others. - The toughest part? Admitting what really happened to Daryl Graydon that night on Ridge Rd. What was the story that you told the court? - The story was that my victim had swung a bottle at me and I reacted in self-defence. - And what do you want to say about that now? - There was no bottle, and I was not acting in self-defence. - So you lied. - Yes. - To try and get away with murder. - Yes. The first person I told the truth to was my therapist. I realised that if I kept continuing on with the lie, the lie to myself and the lie that I told others, I was gonna stay stuck in that place of denial, self-doubt, shame. I didn't want that any more. - When any of us as human beings can confront the worst thing that we're capable of, fully, without flinching, we also get to learn that that's not all that we are. Yes, we did that thing. Yes, we're responsible for it. But there is more to us than that single story. And I think that's the most powerful thing that can change a person's life, and I certainly saw that in Sean. - As Sean's rehabilitation continued, he was put to work. - I learnt how to cook in prison. And I ended up becoming the main cook of the prison. The first time I sent chicken out, it was raw, and I got a lot of angry people sending their chickens back, so that was a tough learning experience. Being responsible for a kitchen and a team started building confidence in myself. - Then he was trusted to work outside the wire at a meatworks in Wellington. -I worked towards this for three years. I had to get my security classification to minimum. But once I had that opportunity, I made the most of it. I worked nine hours a day here, and I went back into the prison to sleep at night-time. - When you coming in to work at this place, because of your history, you don't tell nobody. Because at the end of the day, he's done what he's done. That's it. You come here on a clean slate. He's just another worker. He turned up every day. He gave it 100%. He was a joy to be around. You have to be mentally tough, because you're actually watching animals die. - My job here is to make the last part of their journey as pain-free and as enjoyable as possible. - But how would Sean confront the pain that he caused? Next ` - It's heartbreaking. - Will Daryl's family forgive Sean? - Some people would say that what I did is unforgivable. - But he wants a fresh start. - Sean is someone with a life of great promise. - Hoki mai ano. In 2007 Sean Selby murdered Daryl Graydon. He was sentenced to life in prison. Behind bars at age 20, Sean had little hope for his future, until he came across a man who had walked a very similar path. - What's it like carrying that label, murderer? - It's a heavy, heavy label to carry. It's taken me years before I can even bring myself to say that word. - Dr Paul Wood is a leadership and mental health speaker. - I'm gonna get you to come and have a look around this table here, where I've put a whole lot of feelings and emotions words. - But there's more to his story than meets the eye. - I went to prison because at 18 I unnecessarily took the life of another person. And as a result of that, I was convicted of murder. - Behind bars for 11 years, he turned his mind to study. - So I have a bachelor's degree in psychology and philosophy, a master's degree in psychology, and a doctorate in psychology as well. - An article about Paul's transformation caught the eye of Sean Selby while he was in prison. They wrote to each other for years, eventually meeting in Remutaka. - The first time I met Sean, the first thing I thought is, 'This guy does not need to be here and shouldn't be here.' I just think he showed a level of kindness and compassion and empathy that I simply didn't possess when I was his age. - Do you reckon every offender deserves a second chance? - I believe all of us deserve a second chance. People don't have to be defined by their behaviours, particularly when they're young. People can make mistakes and come back from them. - With Paul's support, Sean applied for parole. - I learnt about myself in prison, and I'm grateful for my experience there. But I knew that I didn't pose a risk to society any more. People don't automatically get granted parole in New Zealand. It's a privilege, not a right. - A privilege after 11 years inside. - It was surreal. I just couldn't believe that I was in the ocean. I was very, very cold and I could barely breathe, but I felt alive. I felt alive in a way that I hadn't felt in a long time. - While Sean can plan his future, Daryl Graydon never got the chance. Why do you want to keep Daryl's memory alive like this? You're surrounded by so many reminders of him. - Because I loved him. He was my son. He meant the world to me. And he deserves to be remembered. - The Graydon family has never met Sean. They don't want to, and he's not allowed to contact them. But he can watch our interview. How are you feeling about watching this? - I feel very anxious. I mean, my heart's beating very fast. - How do you feel about Sean Selby? - I hate him. You know, he took my son's life. - He didn't just take Daryl's life. He took all of ours that night. We'll never be the same again. - He got all the support and he's getting all these qualifications and rehabilitation in there. Our lives went down the drain, eh? Where's our support? They care more about the guy who caused all of it than the ones who have to deal with it. - Alana tried to mask her pain. - For a long time, it was just alcohol every day. - Lowell got in trouble with the law. - I lost my family, lost my job. I've got so many charges now. - Daryl's family have been and still are suffering. They're still grieving. They're still in pain. And that's on me. I still can't believe what I did. It still seems unreal to me. But I know it's true, and I know I did it. - I really believe that it should be life for life. If you take somebody else's life, you should be made to give up your own. - Can you forgive Sean? - No. Not at all. - I heard that Louanna will never forgive me. And I accept that they're under no obligation to forgive me for what I did. - Now 34, Sean has been on parole for two years. - I completed two diplomas ` a diploma in business studies and a diploma in psychology. - Now he has a degree too. He started studying back in prison. - It was a lot of hard work. It took about six years. And I'm really glad that I did it. - But finding a job has been tough. - I've applied for numerous roles over the last couple of years and gotten quite far through the recruitment process. And every time I disclose my conviction, uh, the employers no longer want to talk with me. - Last year Sean was chosen for a student mentoring programme. - Hi, Sean. - Gidday, Miles. - How are you doing? - Good, thank you. - Shall we grab a coffee? - He was hosted by KPMG, a global consulting firm. - I was very nervous. Same again for me, please. It was like stepping into a new world. - So, how's your elevator pitch been going? Have you been working on that? - I was able to speak about my strengths of being a team player, being driven, being resilient and having a growth mindset. - Awesome. - Yeah. When I told people about my conviction at KPMG, they were overwhelmingly supportive of me, and it gave me a lot of confidence. - Now Sean can own his past. - Grab a seat. - At police college in Porirua he gives regular talks. - I'm here to share my story today, as an adult who offended as a youth and who spent 11 years in prison. Sharing my story could help the police understand what our young people are struggling with and also show them that whilst people can go down a bad path when they're young, that's not the end of the story. They can turn things around. - He continues to amaze me with everything that he does. Yeah. - Louanna never got to see her boy grow up. Has time been a healer? - Yes and no. Yes and no. I'm not as bad as I used to be. - Daryl is never far from her mind. - One of the last dreams I had, he looked happy. He looked handsome. And we hugged, and I woke up. So in a way, that told me I will see him again. - You will see him again. - Yeah. - Sean and Paul were both 18 when they committed murder. - That's something that we will carry with us forever. - I often still think about prison. I still think about the people in there. And I'm constantly grateful that I have the opportunity to be living the life I am. - Some people won't get past your behaviour as a teenager. Some people will have a negative response. And that's OK. And the best thing that you can do is to show your regret and your remorse through how you behave, how you live your life today. Sean is someone with a life of great promise. - (SOBS) - How do you feel about that? - It means a lot that Paul believes in me and other people believe in me. There's still times that it's hard for me to believe in myself. But I think anyone who puts in the work to change and become a better person deserves a second chance. - Well, we're grateful to both Sean Selby and the Graydons for sharing their stories. Louanna is now grandmother to Keanu. The whanau say he's brought them a lot of joy, and his curly hair and cheekiness reminds them of Daryl. Sean, meanwhile, still meets a probation officer each month. The parole board says his reintegration has gone extremely well. E whai ake nei ` the magic of music. - # Listen to the drum... # - Right from infancy, our bodies are primed to respond to music. And that actually continues right through our lives. - How this mana wahine of waiata started an epic movement. - We looked for things that really made her heart sing. - Nau mai ano. Dame Hinewehi Mohi is an icon of New Zealand music. And the renowned singer believes deeply in its healing power. So much so that 20 years ago this month, Dame Hinewehi co-founded something special inspired by her own daughter. The Raukatauri Music Therapy Centre helps people with mental and physical challenges to communicate, to move and to be themselves. But as Te Aniwa Hurihanganui discovers, despite its incredible success, there's a question mark. - # I heard... (PLAYS GENTLE PIANO MELODY) # that you're settled down... - Hineraukatauri adores this song. - # Found a girl, and you're... - Even though she'll never be able to sing the words. So every week therapist Ella sings them for her. - # Someone like you. - And when she does, something special happens. - # ...for you too. - (CHIMES TINKLE) - Hineraukatauri makes music. - (CHIMES TINKLE) - # I remember you said... - Music has always been a constant in her life. - (SINGS GENTLE WAIATA) - Her mum, Dame Hinewehi Mohi, used it to cope with Hineraukatauri's unexpected diagnosis. - I used my music to channel my... my sadness for her losing her true life's potential. - Hineraukatauri has had severe cerebral palsy since birth. - The brain injury was significant. She can't walk or talk. Her engagement was through her eyes and her cooing and vocalisation. So as she was growing up, we looked for things that really made her heart sing. And I spoke with the producer of my album, and he said, 'Music therapy! Music therapy is the thing.' - Hinewehi was working in London when she witnessed the power of music therapy for the first time. - It was such an epiphany for Hineraukatauri as a little girl of 2 or 3, the instant connection with the music therapists. It was just so amazing. - So Hinewehi and her husband, George, decided to open their own centre in Aotearoa. - Sunday was there when they started planning, just over 20 years ago. - This would be our dream, our absolute dream, with separate music therapy rooms ` small ones like this one. - And now this one. - Hi, Sophia. What shall we do first? You gonna do the shaker? - Yeah. - Rachel is a music therapist and the clinical services manager at the Raukatauri Music Therapy Centre in Auckland. - Whoa! Music is completely unique, because every part of your brain is involved in a music-making experience. That means your emotions, your decision-making skills, your movement. # Build 'em up, build 'em up, build 'em higher. # - And Sophia, who has a rare genetic condition, is one of her newest and noisiest clients. - When I first started seeing her, she was quite shy. And so the moment that I started playing the guitar and her face lit up and she started clapping along was really special. # The horn on the bus goes 'beep, beep, beep'. # Through the use of action songs, she's able to walk more steadily and her actions are in time now, which is really exciting to see. (PLAYS CHEERFUL SONG) - That's so lovely. - This is a really great opportunity to have a little bit of a peek into what the therapy sessions involve, particularly for family members. I can honestly say that there hasn't been a time where a parent hasn't said to me, it is the highlight of our week. It's the time when we can see our child most animated and most engaged. - We have consent to show you these sessions, which are all about trust and shared goals. - It's kind of like, 'You get me.' (LAUGHS) - How many clients do the centre see every week? - Almost a thousand in the four different centres and through outreach programmes. (DRUMS BANG) - # We're gonna move. OK, should we go this way, or should we go this way? - From Northland to Auckland, Bay of Plenty and here in the Hawke's Bay, everyone is welcome. - You don't need to be musical to benefit from music therapy. Developmentally, right from infancy, our bodies are primed to respond to music ` that's the rhythm of our mother's heartbeat in the womb. And that's why when you're listening to a song, you will almost always walk in time with a song. - Clinically, it can be used to improve mental health, develop social skills and help with physical rehab. - We have clients who are relearning to speak after having a brain injury or a stroke, and so they come to us saying, 'I need to practise forming words,' and so singing repetitively can really help the brain create those new neural pathways. For young people who have been diagnosed with a disability or as neurodivergent, that can often be around learning to be with another person. - Georgia is neurodivergent. Speech is also a challenge, but she has learned to count. - One... One... One... - One, two, three, four... - Not just in music therapy, but also outside of the session. - # I wanna know your name. # - At the night market in Auckland's Mt Albert, Miranda is counting down the minutes. If she looks nervous, it's because she's about to sing live. But we'll come back for that. - (GUITAR STRUMS) - Every Wednesday... - Shall we do Mamma Mia? ...Miranda sings with Luke, her therapist. - # Whoa, whoa. # Mamma mia, here I go again. My diagnosis was autism, and it just affects how I'm feeling during the day. - How does music therapy help? - It relaxes me. # Ba-ba-ba-ba-da-da... I feel like I can do things. He puts the control over on to me. I can do what I want with the music. That was great. - That was great. That was awesome. High five for that one. - High five. Whoo-hoo! - You're also in a band. Can you tell me a little bit about your band? - Everyone, the dance floor is free. The Mutes From Mars! (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - We're a special ability band. Whoo! # Rebel, rebel, you've torn your dress. (BAND PLAY ROCK MUSIC) - And tonight they're headlining this community gig. And do you think your sessions have helped you in your band at all? - Yes, it's built my confidence. # Hot tramp, I love you so. - It's really exciting to see Miranda, who's always wanted to be a singer, and that was one of her goals in music therapy, she's found her voice and her confidence. It's a privilege to be able to witness transformation in people's lives. - ALL SING: # Hari huritau, Raukatauri. - Today marks a special milestone. - # Happy birthday to us. - 20 years of bringing people together. I can't even articulate what it has meant for people. - She doesn't need to. Their faces say it all. - Wow! - The children, the therapists, the parents. But the centre can't reach everyone. - Certainly the demand outstrips anything that we can provide. - And its future is now more uncertain than ever. - Always wanting to expand and be bigger, but needing to be very realistic about how we can afford to do that with no direct government funding. So it's sad in our 20th birthday year that we do have the biggest challenge financially, ever. - That's a real sore spot. - It's an unsettling thought for the people who care for Hineraukatauri. - Stretch your fingers. - They've seen how music unlocks something within her. - # Hine... raukatauri. - How she comes alive. - # Te kohine... - (COOS) # ...ataahua... I think you can hear it in the song Hineraukatauri. (CHUCKLES) And... yeah, it's a powerful thing. # ...o te kohungahunga... - The centre was named after her. - Raukatauri, in Maori tradition, is like the personification of music. The female moth that is representative of Raukatauri stays in the cocoon. She doesn't have wings or fly, but her voice carries in a very subtle, gentle way and draws the male to her. And I kinda liken Hineraukatauri to her ancestress, the goddess of music, and how the Raukatauri moth is trapped in her cocoon but draws people to her and then is able to support those who connect with her to fly off. It's such a beautiful story of resonance and how even in the confines of your cocoon, even within the confines of your wheelchair, you can still connect with others far and wide. You can still have an impact on the world. And she has. WHISPERS: I always cry. (LAUGHS) - Whatever happens, music will always make their hearts sing. - # Papaki parihau, rere runga hau. - It's a gift. - Oh. E te tuakana e Hinewehi, ka nui te mihi ki a koe me ta tatou kotiro, ko Hineraukatauri. Big mihi to all those involved at the centre. Now, if you'd like to find out more about the Raukatauri Music Therapy Centre, please see our Facebook page for details. E haere ake nei ` the long road to justice... - I think it was the trauma that led me to getting really angry. - ...for those abused in state care. - Gutted, because it's taken this long for me to find answers. - Kia ora mai ano. One of the darkest realities of our country's history is how our state failed so many in its care. Abused and traumatised, the lasting effects have been horrific. A final report by the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care is being prepared. But what next? Tonight Anna Harcourt meets two survivors whose stories are confronting but need to be heard. - You know, when you go to these places, it takes a bit out of you. It takes stuff away from you. - The moment that I don't forget was me trying to jump out of a window and the social worker being behind me, pulling me, and the police being there, and then the police officer grabbing me and putting me in the car and taking me to my first placement. - And how old were you then? - I was 10. - A quarter of a million children, young people and vulnerable adults were abused in care in New Zealand from 1950 to 2019. These are just two stories among the hundreds of thousands. Hohepa Taiaroa spent five years in state care in the 1970s. - Mum and dad had split up. I didn't feel part of a family. So I rebelled by stealing cars and doing burgs. I guess it was for attention. - When Hohepa was 13, he was sent to the state-run Kohitere Boys Training Centre. - It was a cross between polytechnic and jail. - The first time he had a shower, he experienced the Kohitere initiation ritual, being brutally beaten by older boys. - You've got no clothes on. You're in a shower with a bar of soap. No weapons. Easy to deal with. I started yelling out. Nobody came. Nobody came. By then, I was on my knees. So I fought back. That's all I could do. You know, I got a hiding. I was in infirmary for two days. Nobody said a thing. - So the guards did nothing. - They didn't want to know. - The older boys, they were trying to beat you up, but they were also trying sexual assault? - Yeah. Yeah. There were some predators in there. - Ihorangi is only 18, but he's been in 14 care placements and says he was abused in five of them. I think it was the trauma that led me to getting really angry. - Everybody goes, 'Oh, that's a bad boy.' (CHUCKLES) You know? But they don't know you. They don't know what caused it. You tend to turn around and start hating those people of authority, those people that... that put you down. - A third of the young people placed in care between 1950 and 1999 went on to serve a prison sentence. Hohepa spent over eight years in prison. - It was a stepping stone to prison, really. - How do you feel now, knowing that? - (SIGHS) Gutted, because I didn't have the tools to actually make it right. I didn't have the answers to... to help me. Uh... gutted, because it's taken this long for me to find answers. - Today we are announcing that the inquiry into historic abuse in state care will be a royal commission. - For the last five years the government has run a Royal Commission of Inquiry to investigate abuse in care. It's due to make final recommendations in mid-2024. Part of the inquiry has looked at the damage done when you take children away from their families. For Hohepa, one of the few people he could trust was his cousin, who has since passed away. - VOICE BREAKS: She made me feel like a family member. She made me feel wanted. I wanted her to see how far we'd come. Ah, kia ora e hoa. - Kia ora. It hurts me that it has happened 45 years before I was born, and it's still happening today. - What would you like to see change? - I want to make sure that every young person has adequate access to mental health and counselling supports. An apology, for me, won't go far enough, but it would be good to receive an apology. Actions speak louder than words. - Well, survivors may have to wait even longer for the commission's final report. The agency preparing it is likely to ask for an extension. They say the scale of abuse is beyond what anyone could have imagined. And that's our show for tonight. We would love to hear from you, either on social media or via email ` sunday@tvnz.co.nz. And you can find our stories on the Sunday page at TVNZ+. Thanks for joining us. Nga mihi nui. Hei kona.