The Lead with Jake Tapper Aired April 05, 2024 - 16:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. … (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:59:29] TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. And this hour, the countdown to the final four and women are dominating the games. Sports commentator Bob Costas will be here to talk college basketball and more. Plus, new comments today from Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on the January 6 attack. His polarizing remark as he questions the fallout of that day. But we're going to start this hour with breaking news. U.S. is actively preparing for a quote, significant attack by Iran against Israel. That's an attack that could come within the next week, we're told. This is according to a senior administration official, Biden administration official, who says a direct strike on Israel by Iran is one of the worst-case scenarios at the White House is preparing for. The Lead with Jake Tapper Aired April 05, 2024 - 17:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [17:00:00] JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: …Iran has vowed to get revenge after Israel's airstrike on Iran's embassy complex in Syria on Monday. Let's get straight to CNN's MJ Lee at the White House. And MJ, what else are your sources preparing for? MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, we are being told by a senior administration official that the U.S. is currently on high alert and is actively preparing for what they expect to be a significant attack by Iran that could come within the next week or so. This Iranian attack would, of course, be in response to that Israeli airstrike that we saw in Damascus that ended up killing multiple top Iranian commanders. And U.S. and Israeli officials, I am told, have been in close contact preparing for what they see as an inevitable attack from Iran. These two governments have been in close consultation, preparing for a number of different ways in which this forthcoming attack could unfold. And they do believe that both U.S. and Israeli assets are at risk of being targeted. But I am told that as of Friday, it is unclear exactly how this attack might unfold. Now, of course, a direct attack on Israel would be one of the worst case scenarios for the Biden administration, considering that this would guarantee a rapid de-escalation of an already tumultuous situation in the Middle East and certainly a broadening of the Israel Hamas war, something that the U.S. administration and us officials have been very much determined to avoid happening as the Israel Hamas war has continued on, Jake. TAPPER: MJ, this has been feared for a long time, and this possibility was even discussed by Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu on their call yesterday. Have we seen any other outcomes from the discussion those two had yesterday? LEE: Sure, Jake. We know from the White House readout, of course, that this was one of the main topics of discussion between President Biden and the Israeli prime minister. Of course, there were a number of other issues that the two leaders discussed, including just the need for more humanitarian aid to get into Gaza. And we actually saw some immediate effects and results coming out of that phone call, including the opening of a crossing, the opening of a port, and ramping up of humanitarian aid that would get into Gaza. This is a space that U.S officials are going to be watching very closely in the coming weeks, in addition to any changes that Israel might make in terms of protecting aid workers as well as protecting civilians and making sure that the civilian death toll starts to come down in a significant way. TAPPER: All right, MJ Lee, thanks so much. Turning to our politics lead Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, House Speaker Mike Johnson are expected to talk today as she threatens to oust him from his speakership. Let's get straight to CNN's Melanie Zanona. Melanie, did they talk today? MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, we have not gotten any word about whether the two camps have connected. Speaker Mike Johnson did say he was planning on trying to speak with her by telephone today. But really the goal for Johnson here was try to take down the temperature because the two of them have not spoken since before the two week break when Marjorie Taylor Greene filed that first step towards removing him from the speakership. And since then, she has been continually and publicly bashing him on social media and interviews, including with our Manu Raju earlier this week. The ideal scenario for Johnson would be to convince her to actually back off of this threat. I do know that one argument that has been made to her in private, at least from other Republicans, is that if she follows through with forcing a floor vote, this could hand the speaker's gavel to Democrats because of the razor thin majority in the House. But it's just really unclear whether Johnson can do anything to assuage Marjorie Taylor Greene at this point unless he commits to pulling the plug on his plans to pass a Ukraine funding package. But at this point, Jake, there's just no indication that is what he plans to do. TAPPER: Does Johnson have any concrete plans to make sure that if Marjorie Taylor Greene does offer this motion to vacate, that his slim majority of House Republicans backs him up? Or is the threat of getting more Republicans to oust him gaining momentum? ZANONA: Johnson certainly cannot take anything for chance in this razor thin majority. Marjorie Taylor Greene does say there's other Republicans who are with her, but she did not names. She did not specify numbers. None of them have come out publicly. It does seem some members are just sitting back and waiting to see what Johnson does on Ukraine before they make a decision. And, Jake, there's also an open question of what Democrats do because some of them have signaled that they would be willing to step in and save Johnson's speakership if he does, quote, "the right thing on Ukraine." But that's really open for interpretation. So Johnson has some very big decisions to make in the coming weeks as he tries to find a way to fund Ukraine without losing his speakership. TAPPER: Right. And a lot of this, we should note, is just about whether he allows a vote on a bill that passed the Senate with a bipartisan majority, not whether he himself votes for it himself. Melanie Zanona, thanks so much. Turning to our 2024 lead, Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is now claiming that the attack on the Capitol on January 6, 2021 might not have been a, quote, "true insurrection." CNN's Eva McKend joins us now. [17:05:09] Eva, this comes after he referred to the January 6 rioters as, what did he call them, political prisoners or something? EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Activists. TAPPER: Activists. MCKEND: Activist. TAPPER: He called them activists. And so what exactly is he saying today and why today? MCKEND: Well, Jake, this is essentially continued cleanup from those two fundraising appeals that you mentioned that were sent out this week, referring to January 6 defendants as activists. Kennedy has a history of downplaying the gravity of the events that took place, but he quickly distanced himself from those fundraising appeals, telling us that is not his thinking on the matter and that the contractor responsible is no longer with the campaign. But here is where he stands today on this issue, he says in this lengthy statement, in part, "It is quite clear that many of the January 6 protesters broke the law in what may have started as a protest but turned into a riot. Because it happened with the encouragement of President Trump and in the context of his delusion that the election was stolen from him many people see it not as a riot but as an insurrection. I have not examined the evidence in detail, but reasonable people, including Trump opponents, tell me there is little evidence of a true insurrection." So, he is both expressing concern about what he characterizes maybe the weaponization of government against those charged with crimes in connection to the riot. And at the same time, he condemns protesters who broke the law. Ultimately, he says, if elected, he will name an independent counsel to investigate whether prosecutorial discretion was abused for political ends. His critics argue he's whitewashing the attack and it mirrors some of the commentary coming from Trump and other right wing figures. The DNC telling us he's using hundreds of words to both sides the insurrection, Jake. TAPPER: All right. Eva McKend, thank you so much. Let's discuss. And, Sarah, let us start with RFK junior. So you are an expert in polling and focus groups. Who is he trying to, assuming that there is a strategy here, who is he trying to appeal to with these comments? And is it working at all? SARAH LONGWELL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: OK, so I just did two focus groups on RFK. I specifically did former Biden voters who were leaning toward RFK and Trump voters who are leaning toward RFK, and it's crazy because it's like a Rorschach test. He's such a wild card that the Dems will tell you they love his positions on conservation and the environment. He's really good on those. And Republicans will tell you they love the way he's beating up on Democrats as what they perceive to be a Democrat because his last name's Kennedy and they love his position on being anti-vax. And so right now, and because he's a Kennedy, there's sort of from the Dems a sense of, well, he is a Democrat. And so, he's pulling from both right now. But comments like this, ultimately, if I were Donald Trump, I would be very concerned that when voters become more educated on who RFK is, that he will pull much more from the MAGA anti-vax, right? TAPPER: Oh, you think so? LONGWELL: I do think so. TAPPER: You think he's more of a threat to Trump? LONGWELL: Here's the thing, I think that anybody who splits the broad anti-Trump coalition is dangerous. And so if you ask me my preference, it would be that RFK wasn't in there. But I do think once Dems are done sort of educating people about this guy, he will take more from Trump than from Biden. GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: But this statement was just gobbledygook. I mean, you couldn't tell which side he was on. Well, some people say it was an insurrection and some people say it wasn't an insurrection. And I haven't really looked at it in detail. This is not a candidate. You have to have a position. And it's -- you know, those are just, you know, word salad. TAPPER: You can also think it was horrific and not think it was a quote unquote, "insurrection," but he's trying to split the baby. BORGER: Right. KAREN FINNEY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Exactly. LONGWELL: Yes. FINNEY: I was going to say, all due respect to Sarah, you don't have to be pollster and do focus groups to know what he was trying to do. He's very -- he's being very political for all that. He attacks politicians by trying to have it both ways. LONGWELL: Yes. FINNEY: By trying to -- he is trying to take from the sort of anti- vax, some of the far right wing folks, and he is still trying to say some of the right words to keep some of the folks on the left. TAPPER: Let me read you some of the words and then you can pick it back up. FINNEY: Yes. TAPPER: He said, like many reasonable Americans, "I am concerned about the possibility that political objectives motivated the vigor of the prosecution of the January 6 defendants, their long sentences, and their harsh treatment." I mean, obviously, that is, if you're suggesting that the people who stormed the Capitol with the objective of stopping the count of electoral votes, that the prosecution of them, many of them, were, as we all have seen, physically assaulting police officers -- FINNEY: Correct. Right. TAPPER: -- that that's politically motivated and you're trying to appeal to Trump people. FINNEY: Hundred percent. And he's -- but what I think he understands, and if you look at a poll, the public polling, he is pulling from both. He says as much to Erin Burnett earlier this week in the interview that at this point he is pulling from both. And I think that is exactly his strategy. And I think both sides recognize he's a threat to both Trump and Biden because there are other wild cards out there, there is Jill Stein, there is Cornel West, so we don't know -- [17:10:14] TAPPER: Yes. FINNEY: -- who ultimately is going to benefit or be harmed. BORGER: He's so political. You know, he just stops short of saying that these people are hostages, which is what, of course -- TAPPER: Trump said, yes. BORGER: -- Donald Trump is saying. But he's saying that maybe they were unfairly prosecuted, right? TAPPER: Yes. BORGER: Because of politics. Well, what does that -- what does that mean? I mean, again, he talks word salad so he can appeal to both sides. You can read into what he's saying depending on where you come from. TAPPER: Well, that's the Rorschach test that Sarah talks. LONGWELL: That is the Rorschach. BORGER: Yes. LONGWELL: But ultimately, he will have to answer more questions as he is in the limelight. I just -- BORGER: Exactly. LONGWELL: You can tell his heart is more MAGA, you can tell where this guy is much more in a Trumpy outsider, you know, counter orthodox. That's the kind of campaign he wants to run. And I think that ultimately that pulls more from Trump. But I do think, I agree with the comment about he is a wild card, he is dangerous. TAPPER: Yes. LONGWELL: And low information voters who might just be just know his name right now -- TAPPER: He looks exactly like his dad. LONGWELL: Yes. And he is taking more from Biden right now. FINNEY: It's also, though, not trying to take up the mantle of his father. I mean, it's pretty astonishing when he tried to suggest that Trump and Biden are equally threats to democracy. He said that on the same day Trump said he was going to pull back -- pull back, I should say civil rights laws, some of which his own father (inaudible). BORGER: Well, he does mention his father in terms of being at the Justice Department, right? FINNEY: Yes. But he doesn't want to -- but he's OK if those laws get repealed. BORGER: Yes, yes. TAPPER: Let's turn now to the ongoing feud between House Speaker Mike Johnson and Republican congresswoman or gadfly Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is, you know, really making her presence known and her opposition to funding or even allowing a vote on funding for Ukraine. Does anyone win in this situation? LONGWELL: Well, Ukraine certainly loses. I mean, here's the thing. Marjorie Taylor Greene has a lot of power now in the House and -- TAPPER: That's why we cover her. LONGWELL: I know. TAPPER: Yes. LONGWELL: And it is extremely dangerous. And thanks, Kevin McCarthy, for elevating her. And now she is in this position. Look, I don't think that the House Republicans have the stomach for another big fight. That being said, they know their voters do not want them to fund Ukraine. There is a -- the Republican Party, they have shifted a lot in a lot of ways. But one of the biggest ways is they've gotten very isolationist in their foreign policy. I hear it from Republican voters and focus groups all the time. They do not want any more money going to Ukraine. So she is representing a base opinion here, and there will be other people who follow her if she decides to take a real stand on it. BORGER: But I don't think she's the pied piper here. I mean, I think there are lots of Republicans in the House who do want to fund Ukraine. And maybe there's some way to talk about immigration in this or get something out of it. You know, the Democrats -- if Johnson needs the Democrats, they're not going to come for free. They're going to -- they're going to want to get something out of that. What that is, you know, I don't know. So she's just open to Pandora's Box here. TAPPER: Yes. BORGER: And it's hard to predict which way it's going to go. TAPPER: So she said the other day, I think on Steve Bannon's podcast or whatever that show is that Speaker Johnson, who is, I think, objectively the most conservative Republican that has ever been speaker of the House, I mean, I don't even think it's a question that Speaker Johnson is, like Nancy Pelosi, I think she called him a moderate and said he's like Nancy Pelosi and like Mitch McConnell. And again, this is just because he has attempted to keep the government open and govern and make deals or whatever. But he's probably even more conservative than -- FINNEY: Yes. TAPPER: -- Marjorie Taylor Greene, at least based on how they conduct themselves. FINNEY: Yes, but she is a student of Donald Trump. And as we've seen Donald Trump do, that's how you treat your enemies. You accuse them of, you know, absolute bluster and things that are absolutely not true. And the sad thing about it, though, is she does have a lot of control. It also, though -- this is performative, this is about fundraising, this is about cliques, this is about keeping herself in the news, right, because now we're wondering, is she -- will she or won't she? Will the Dems have to do well, won't they? TAPPER: Yes. What do you think? If the Democrats have to step in because, look, he can only afford to lose like two or three -- LONGWELL: Two or -- yes. FINNEY: Correct. BORGER: Yes, right. TAPPER: -- two or Republicans in both -- LONGWELL: That's right. Someone get sick, it's impossible. It's so funny what you said about conservative, though, as though he's the most conservative. That word has ceased to have all meaning. TAPPER: It's not about that anymore, right? About MAGA. LONGWELL: The fact that he's ideologically conservative matters -- FINNEY: Yes. LONGWELL: -- one at all to this. She is -- it is about fealty to MAGA, it is about doing what Trump wants. And so, how conservative he is? How conservative Liz Cheney is? None of that matters anymore. There's a different litmus test that people are being -- TAPPER: And also how they conduct themselves in their personal lives -- BORGER: Yes. FINNEY: Right. TAPPER: -- is also -- that used to be something that conservatives were graded on and judged about. BORGER: That's right. Cared about. TAPPER: Yes. BORGER: You know, the interesting thing is also is that this freedom caucus, or whatever you call it now, because maybe it doesn't really exist. [17:15:00] TAPPER: The MAGA caucus. FINNEY: Right. BORGER: Yes. Matt Gaetz is not with her on this. And so -- LONGWELL: Well, Matt Gaetz likes to be the one controlling the thing. BORGER: Well -- LONGWELL: He doesn't like it when Marjorie Taylor Greene gets the limelight. BORGER: -- but there is a fight. There is -- FINNEY: Yes, he likes the limelight. BORGER: There is a fight -- TAPPER: Very interesting stuff. BORGER: -- for control among these people who used to be a united front and now some of them want to save Johnson and some of them don't. TAPPER: Yes. BORGER: And we'll just have to see how it plays out. TAPPER: Thank you all. Appreciate it. From U.S. politics to what's going on in Israel, my next guest says, quote, "Benjamin Netanyahu is Israel's worst prime minister ever." He's Israeli and he says that. We'll get into that. Plus, the breaking news in sports today. Bronny James following the lead of his dad, taking his talents to the NBA draft. Bob Costas will be here to discuss that and of course, the explosion in women's basketball, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) TAPPER: In our world lead, as the Israel war with Hamas enters its six month and the humanitarian crisis continues to worsen in Gaza, President Biden is not alone in expressing his frustration over how Netanyahu is conducting this war. Many Israelis are also angry and voicing their outrage, holding nightly protests, demanding not only that the Netanyahu government focus more on a deal to bring home the remaining hostages, but also many of them calling for Israel's longest serving prime minister in history to resign. [17:20:24] My next guest says, quote, "Benjamin Netanyahu Israel's worst prime minister ever." And that "Netanyahu's obsession with his own destiny as Israel's protector has caused his country grievous damage." And Anshel Pfeffer joins us now from Israel. Anshel, thank you so much for joining us. In your article, you write that Prime Minister Netanyahu, had he accepted defeat in 2021, perhaps today he would have been remembered as one of Israel's most successful prime ministers. Instead, you write, quote, "He has brought far right extremists into the mainstream of government and made himself and the country beholden to them. His corruption is flamboyant. And he has made terrible security decisions that brought existential danger to the country he pledged to lead and protect. Above all, his selfishness is without parallel, he has put his own interests ahead of Israel's at every turn," unquote. Do you think that Netanyahu is dragging this war out longer than it needs to be for his own political survival? ANSHEL PFEFFER, WRITER, HAARETZ: I think that's very clear by now that the way the war is going, which one side, Netanyahu is talking about a total victory and the need to press on to do the operation in Rafah and the way that he's conditioning a hostage agreement or hostage release agreement for a temporary ceasefire with some kind of bigger military push, while at the same time we're seeing on the ground that the military isn't carrying out that push and the scaling down of Israeli forces, it looks like a recipe for a much longer war. And the main reason for that happening is that Netanyahu feels that as long as this war is -- as long as he can say that Israel is at war, it'll be much more difficult for his political opponents to demand an early election, which will probably remove him. TAPPER: So, it's just a factual matter that Netanyahu's survival as prime minister depends on some anti-Arab zealots in his cabinet, Ben- Gvir and Smotrich, primarily, he needs their support to stay in power. If he alienates them, they can leave and he -- and there'll be a new election, he'll not have support to be prime minister. How much do you think that's the reason that not enough humanitarian aid is getting into Gaza? PFEFFER: I don't think that's the main reason. I think the reason that not enough humanitarian aid got into Gaza is a combination of reasons, which partly is the trauma that Israelis were feeling in the aftermath of October 7. Partly it's the way that the Israeli military was focused on the military campaign and didn't think that the humanitarian side of it was something that they, as the army, needed to prioritize. And yes, the third element, I think, is this political paralysis at the heart of Netanyahu's cabinet. He can't make any major decision because he's scared of angering either the far right wing of his government, without whom he doesn't have a majority, or the pragmatic wing, and of course, the Biden administration. That leads to indecision. And what we're seeing now is that there needed to be some kind of proactive take on the humanitarian front, and that has been absent from Israel's decision making. And Netanyahu is the man who's responsible for that. TAPPER: So, President Biden had a tough conversation with Netanyahu in which he said it was going to be tough for the United States to continue to support Israel if Gaza keeps going the way it is, the campaign. What do you think Netanyahu is going to do? Our friend Barack Ravid (ph) is reporting that Biden said out now, if he doesn't change it it's going to be tough to support you. PFEFFER: Well, that's also what the White House readout said. And we saw already what Netanyahu did immediately after his very tough phone call with the president, he rushed to the Israeli cabinet and immediately passed a decision to open up the main routes through Israel for supplies to Gaza. This is something that for six months the Israeli government hasn't done. Netanyahu did this literally within minutes after speaking to Biden. So we can see that this call had a major effect on Netanyahu. But it's interesting that Netanyahu rushed to have the vote at the beginning of the cabinet meeting. Now, votes usually take place after a debate is held. In this case, Netanyahu was so scared of one of his far right minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, who had been delayed and wasn't yet at the cabinet meeting that he rushed to have the vote before Ben- Gvir came. So on the one hand, he could -- he hopes appease Biden by making those decisions, and the other hand, avoid a confrontation with one of his partners. [17:25:19] TAPPER: Fascinating. Anshel Pfeffer, thank you so much. Come back, please. And then there are those who are living through this horror. My next guest was a hostage of Hamas, the unspeakable events that this young Israeli girl survived. She's going to join us and tell us her story. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) …