The Lead with Jake Tapper Aired May 01, 2024 - 17:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [17:00:03] JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The Lead," I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, here's a question. Why haven't you heard more from the President of the United States about all the stuff going on campuses right now? Well, the White House Press Secretary was asked exactly that, not long ago, hear her response coming up. Plus, music legend Jon Bon Jovi here on "The Lead" telling us about a serious health issue he had that almost ended his career. Plus, the big new project he has out now. And leading this hour, breaking news moments ago, the Arizona State Senate voted to repeal that state's Civil War era abortion ban, a law that was first introduced in 1864 before women had the right to vote, and when the age of consent in Arizona, according to some historians, was 10. The law bans abortion at all stages of pregnancy except to save the life of the mother. Let's get straight to CNN, Natasha Chen. So, Natasha, what happens next and what does this mean for the ability to get an abortion in Arizona? NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, there's a lot of whiplash for Arizona. And what we're expecting now is for the House to receive what the Senate just repealed and send it on to the governor's desk where she is expected to sign it. But the repeal wouldn't take effect until 90 days after the legislative session ends. So right now, the earliest this could go into effect is June 27th. The attorney general of Arizona has, however, asked for a stay while her office considers whether to ask the US Supreme Court to review this ruling. So for right now, Arizonans just need to know that the 15 week ban is in effect in their state. And there was a lot of heated debate on the Senate floor today in Arizona. The sound bites you're going to hear our Republican Anthony Kern, who is -- and was actually indicted last week as one of the so-called fake electors, followed by a Democratic Senator Eva Burch who has been very open about her miscarriage. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANTHONY KERN (R), ARIZONA STATE SENATE: I am just very sad that our Republican Party can't come together on this, and can't work something out. We're pushing this bill through, because we think it's going to win the next election, when I believe just the opposite. EVA BURCH (D) ARIZONA STATE SENATE: I'm not afraid of the abortions that I had, and do not fear for my soul. They were the right decisions for me and I don't have to follow your religion in this country. (END VIDEO CLIP) CHEN: So to point out, this is all very political, as Senator Kern was saying. President Trump has weighed in, the candidate Kerry Lake has weighed in on this law being just too extreme. So the Republican Party is very split on what to do here. And to emphasize the earliest this could go into effect is June 27th, even though this repeal, after the governor signs it, would go into effect 90 days after the legislative session ends, Jake. TAPPER: All right. Natasha Chen, thanks so much. Just hours ago, Vice President Kamala Harris was in battleground Florida where a brand new abortion ban just went into effect. Before today, Florida had allowed an abortion up to 15 weeks of pregnancy, now illegal abortion must happen within six weeks of pregnancy, which is well before most women even know they are pregnant. The vice president today noted this and place the blame squarely on one particular individual. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Across our nation, we witnessed a full on assault state by state on reproductive freedom and understand who is to blame. Former President Donald Trump did this. Joe Biden and I have a different view. We believe the government should never come between a woman and her doctor. (END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: CNN's Meg Tirrell went inside a Women's Health Center in Florida just hours before this new abortion ban went into effect, the clinic full of patients and anxiety. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CANDICE, WOMAN'S CHOICE CLINIC PATIENCE: That's very scary that these laws are being put into place, you know, and my life matters. MEG TIRRELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A sense of urgency inside A Woman's Choice Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida as mom of two, Candice, agreed to speak with us as she sought an abortion. For privacy reasons, Candice was comfortable providing only her first name and asked us not to show her face. CANDICE: I don't think anybody plans to do something like this until it happens to them and they're faced with that decision. TIRRELL: Candice came to this clinic on a much busier day than usual, just hours before abortion access in Florida would dramatically change. The state's 15 week limit today rolled back to a six week near total ban. KELLY FLYNN, PRESIDENT/CEO, A WOMAN'S CHOICE: Very few people know they're pregnant at that point. TIRRELL: Kelly Flynn is the president and CEO of A Woman's Choice. She took us inside the clinic she bought in 2002. In the last few days, Flynn says they scheduled two to four times as many patients as they normally see. So now when you get a call from somebody who's after six weeks, what do you tell them? [17:05:01] FLYNN: If they're local, we try to get them to come in. We will try to get them to come in, and at least see where they are in their pregnancy. Give them their options and help them with whatever we can with logistics to travel. TIRRELL: Governor Ron DeSantis spoke in support of the law this week. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Being able to provide protections for a baby that has a detectable heartbeat is lawful and constitutional. TIRRELL: The change doesn't just affect Florida because surrounding states have had stricter laws. Many people have traveled to Florida to access abortion, almost 8,000 Last year according to state records. FLYNN: This changes everything for the entire southeast, you know, not just for Floridians but for the surrounding states, for Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee. I worry it's going to be a public health crisis. TIRRELL: Now, patients across the south may have to travel as far as 800 miles to North Carolina, where the limit for abortion is 12 weeks or further north. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for calling A Woman's Choice, how may I help you? We have clinics in Jacksonville, Florida. We also have Charlotte, Greensboro, Raleigh, North Carolina, and Denver, Virginia, TIRRELL: A Woman's Choice just opened its clinic in Virginia, anticipating Florida's ban. In Jacksonville, they showed us how many charts they'd been preparing for patients. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the amount that we have today, lessen. The amount that I have to make tomorrow is that many. FLYNN: Pretty significant change. TIRRELL: This morning, the team regrouped for their new reality. FLYNN: We're going to continue to stay open because I know many of you have been asking about that. And we'll see as many patients, serve as many patients as we can, that are within the required limitations now. TIRRELL: It's not the end of their fight, abortion will be on the ballot in Florida in November. Will you be able to keep this clinic open that long? FLYNN: I'm going to do my best. I'm going to try really hard. TIRRELL: For patients like Candice speaking to us yesterday on the eve of the new restrictions, it's a fight not just for her but also her 14-year-old daughter CANDICE: And I feel lucky that, you know, right now, I do have a voice and I have a right over my own body. But waking up tomorrow is devastating knowing that my daughter and myself are waking up tomorrow with less rights than we do today. (END VIDEOTAPE) TIRRELL: And, Jake, this clinic here in Jacksonville did stay open today. But they told us the span, of course, is already having effects on the patients that they see they said that there were at least three patients today who they had to turn away because they were already after six weeks, between six weeks and just after eight weeks. One of those patients at least has already made plans to go out of state. Jake? TAPPER: All right. Meg Tirrell in Jacksonville, thanks so much. Jacksonville Mayor Donna Deegan joins us now. She appeared alongside Vice President Harris today at that campaign event focused on abortion rights. Madam Mayor, thanks for joining us. So as of today, patients in Florida may now have to travel as far away as North Carolina, I think that's the closest state where abortion access is legal, to seek an abortion after six weeks of pregnancy. I know that a lot of women don't even know they're pregnant until after six weeks. What do you recommend that women and girls in your community who are pregnant do in this case, if they want to get an abortion? What resources are available for them? DONNA DEEGAN (D), JACKSONVILLE MAYOR: Well, I think you just heard a lot of that in the story that you just presented. I mean, at this point, unfortunately, we have to give them other options to go to other states. In the state of Florida, we take our right to privacy very seriously. It's actually written into our Constitution. And I believe that the preponderance of people in this state, especially women, are very concerned about having this government intrusion into their lives. But at this point, they'll have to go elsewhere. In September, you mentioned that you had a good relationship with Florida's Republican Governor Ron DeSantis in part because you worked in television news with his wife, Casey. Have you spoken to either of them about this new law and how it's impacting women in the city, either to the governor or the first lady? DEEGAN: We haven't spoken about this, no. Obviously, we are very much at odds in terms of what we believe is the right thing to do here. I am very, very deeply appreciative of people's religious beliefs, personal, private religious beliefs. At the end of the day, this is about government intrusion. We talk a lot about freedom in this state. This is about freedom to make your own medical choices, your own choices about your own health. And right now women don't have that opportunity like they did 24 hours ago. So I believe in the state of Florida, people will speak loudly and clearly, and say that this is not acceptable to them because this is, as you heard, the woman say, a moment ago, this is not just about women today, this is about our daughters. This is about our future. And women's rights really should be equal to the rights of men. [17:10:08] And I don't think that you would see this -- I don't think you would see this path. If this was something that affected men's bodies the way that it affects women's bodies. TAPPER: Well, I mean, there will be an election, right? Because in November, Floridians will consider a ballot measure that will essentially overturn the six week abortion ban. It would if it passes, and I think it needs 60% enshrine abortion rights into the state constitution. What are you hearing from voters? Do you think that do you think your side can get 60% at the polls to enshrine this in the Constitution? DEEGAN: Well, if you look at the polling right now, you can see that the numbers are there. I think that the effort there will be to make sure we get those folks to the polls. And I can tell you that right now, they seem very motivated to do so. The very same day that the Supreme Court in Florida said that the six week abortion ban was legal, they also gave voters the right to go in and say that we want abortion protections in the state of Florida. So voters will have the opportunity to make their voices heard. You know, for me, someone who has fought for women's health for a very, very long time. I think it is it is something that women especially will embrace, but I think a good number of men as well. People in this state value their privacy and they don't want government overstep into their lives, and that is exactly what this is. TAPPER: All right. Mayor Donna Deegan, thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate it. We're following some breaking news here on the latest flare up of campus protests, this time to Fordham University in New York City. We're going to go there live next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:15:31] TAPPER: Fordham University is the latest flashpoint for campus protests over the war in Gaza. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is there right now. Shimon, since we checked in with you in the last hour, police and protesters have come pretty close. Still peaceful or what? SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Jake, for the most part, still peaceful, but just within the last few minutes, more NYPD officers have moved in. I'm going to show you that in a second. But also, we now have faculty members who have joined some of the students here. You could see them here, locked arm and arm. They're out here to support the students but also to protect the students as the NYPD started mobilizing in. We saw more of the faculty members come out here locked arm and arm. I want to show you the NYPD presents. What the NYPD has done is, these officers who just got here, put on their helmets, and they're now standing face to face, basically, with the protesters. And what they're doing is they're protecting the windows here at Fordham University, because, inside, and it's going to be hard to see because of the reflection, Jake, for remembering the last hour I was telling you. There are a number of students and former students who are basically essentially set up camp inside the lobby of the university. They are refusing to leave and they've been banging on the windows here. And so, the NYPD has moved in. You can see the officers here lined up against the window. And right now this is about -- I mean, they are really face to face with many of the protesters. The thing here right now, from officials that we've talked to, with the city, the university has not asked the NYPD to move in and remove the students they are waiting for that letter. It's a whole legal process, as we saw at Columbia. That has not happened. So for now, the NYPD is standing by. They say they're ready to go in. It's not a large number of students inside but it's certainly what's driving the protests outside. So many of the people out here are supporting the students and the former students that are inside, and for now everyone out here is standing around chanting, but it is notable that within the last few minutes, Jake, that we have seen this increase in police presence. They have also closed the street here. And so we just wait here. More people, certainly since the last hour have come here. And for now we're just standing by to see what happens. TAPPER: So, Shimon, just two quick questions if you could be quick. First one, the students and the faculty that are there, are they blocking other people from being able to go to school, go to the school administration, live their lives, or are they just protesting? PROKUPECZ: They're just protesting. The school, actually, for security reasons and because of safety concerns, have closed the doors to the front of the school. And they're telling faculty and students they have to enter on the second -- 62nd Street side. So the school itself, the entrance and exit here at the front is closed, but they're not blocking anyone. The sidewalk is being blocked. So at some point, the NYPD could come in and tell them to leave the sidewalk or be arrested. That has not yet happened. We don't have any indication that's going to happen, but that could happen, Jake. TAPPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, I'll just leave it there. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Let's talk about this with my panel. And, Nayyera, we were talking about this because one of the chances oh -- it's 2024 music. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. But a segue right into the conversation here. So, Nayyera, we were talking about this because one of the chants we hear is intifada, intifada, which in Arabic means uprising, but obviously has a historical meaning for a lot of people when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which is there was the first intifada and the second intifada, which were very bloody and awful situations with terrorist activities against innocent Israelis and lots of Palestinians killed in the West Bank as well. And you were just saying you have a thought and then using that as a chance. NAYYERA HAQ, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF CABINET AFFAIRS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Yes. And in our conversation, we were thinking does everybody who's chanting that really understand what that term even means and the historical implications of it, and that violence and death was really the result without any political change for the Palestinians or for the Israelis. The two state solution was not move forward as a result, and that's been part of the challenge of reconciling the status quo in Israel and Palestine in finding a path forward. The challenge I see with these protests right now, we were coming off a moment in which the humanitarian crisis in Gaza was bringing people's attention to the issue, to the challenges in a way that recognized everyone's humanity. And that was almost a positive action. [17:20:16] And now that we have campus protests, where there are pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian as the hardline definitions, it's moving backwards in the discourse to a place that we were years ago, that still didn't result in anything better for either the Israelis or the Palestinians. TAPPER: And you said recently that you don't think it's actually the issue of Gaza, that is alienating young people from Joe Biden. You think it's just more pocketbook issues, right? MARC LOTTER, CHIEF COMMUNICATION OFFICER, AMERICA FIRST POLICY INSTITUTE: Yes. I think, you know, there's a certain, obviously, there's a certain element that that is very -- this is very motivating. But when you look at the disapproval that Joe Biden is experiencing right now, according to multiple surveys, including CNN's over the weekend, I think it's more of the economy. We've seen this decline, I think, really, for the last couple of years. That's why I don't think it's just -- it might manifest itself right now. But I think it goes deeper than that. And I think it's very pocketbook issues that CNN poll had Joe Biden performing the worst with the youngest demographic, which is usually his sweet spot. TAPPER: And again, while Democrats are hammering Trump on the abortion issue, or Kamala Harris earlier today, Republicans are blasting President Biden for not being more outspoken on the issue of the campus protests getting out of control, the anti-Semitism we've seen at some of the protests. Today, the White House announced that President Biden will speak at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum next week. And here is how the press secretary defended President Biden. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No president, no President has spoken more forcefully about combating anti-Semitism than this president. What we're seeing is a small percentage of students, that's what we're seeing. They should not be able to disturb or disrupt the academic experience that students have. (END VIDEO CLIP) EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: You know, he could probably stand to wait until tensions are not so high on college campuses. I remember a few months ago at the White House when he suggested that the number of Palestinian deaths that it wasn't an accurate number. And he received significant pushback from Muslim Americans in conversation with him at the White House, who really decried sort of the callousness that they felt that he was offering at that time. The policy speaks volumes, Jake. The American policy right now under President Biden's leadership is to fully support Israel monetarily, politically, from a policy perspective. And so, that really says it all. I think when he is prepared to speak what she will do so next week, and he gives remarks that really elevate everyone's humanity, I think that that really leaves him in the best position to not sort of just speak reflexively, which is cost him some political trouble in the past, but really speak in a way that recognizes the widespread suffering. And there are campuses where they have figured out how to have conversations how to deescalate, and that's been the priority, rather than looking at protests on foreign policy issues, whether it be Vietnam or Iraq War, and now more in Palestine, that you get -- this is like 1,600 people have been arrested, but we've had multiple, multiple campuses where faculty and the academics and the institutions have been responsive. They've had dialogue and we haven't had violence. So the challenge is looking at all of this strictly through a security lens, whether it's a security lens in the foreign policy, but also the security lines of immediately bringing police to the table first when you have students peacefully protesting. TAPPER: So I want to bring some breaking news to you right now. The US House of Representatives has passed that anti-Semitism bill we told you about in the last hour when. We interviewed Congressman Lawler and Mast with 70 Democrats, 21 Republicans voted against the bill, still an overwhelming passage. Some of the Republican no votes, notable names include Matt Gaetz, Andy Biggs, Paul Gosar, Marjorie Taylor Greene, the last two we should note previously spoken to white nationalist convention. Some of the Democratic no votes include AOC, Pramila Jayapal and Ilhan Omar. The bill would require the Department of Education to offer the same protections given under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That act prohibits discrimination based on race, color or national origin, giving this protection to Jewish students across the nation in grades K through 12. I want to flip back to abortion, if we can, because that is an issue that a lot of Democrats are talking about today. And frankly, a lot of Floridians, a lot of Arizonans and allows us a lot of South Dakotans because those issues have bubbled up in those states today. We just heard Trump say people are happy about abortion being left to the states. I think we have this fight. He just said it in battleground Wisconsin a few minutes ago. If we could run that clip. [17:25:00] OK. You don't have it ready, never mind. We're a little out of order today because of all the breaking news. In any case, what he said was basically the states decided on abortion and people are absolutely thrilled with the way that's going on. And every state is different. Every state, they asked me a question about it, I'll say it's up to the state. So I say to you, we did a very good job. A lot of people are very happy about it. The truth is a lot of people are not happy about it. This is a divisive issue. And actually, a lot of Republicans are worried that this is going to hurt Republicans in the fall. Your thoughts? LOTTER: Yes. I think the best thing, I mean, by living into the states, you allow the voters to make the decision that's closest to the lawmakers, close to the people, and it's going to be different. And he's -- the president came out and said he thought six weeks was a little too restrictive. And you have a lot of Republicans who have said that seventh, eighth, ninth month abortions in some of the blue states is also way too open and liberal. So, can we meet in the middle? Even Arizona now goes to 15 weeks, which the President has said is probably the right area and where the polling I've seen says most of the American people are about 70%. Think four months is about the right time to set that limit. But let those voters and those local elected officials decide. HAQ: He's referring, of course, to former President Trump,, current President Biden has a different view as his Vice President Kamala Harris. The challenge you're going to see when deferring this to the states is this assumption that state senators and legislators are actually closer to the people. And so, we are seeing referenda that are put in constitutional amendments that are being tried. When voters have direct access, they resoundingly vote in favor of keeping healthcare access open, letting doctors make decisions with women directly. This is going to be a problem for at the local level for Republicans going forward. TAPPER: I'm in South Dakota, it might be on the ballot, not that that means that South Dakota is about to go blue, but still it could be -- it could have an impact, who knows? Thanks to all of you. Appreciate your being here. This is a big day for Donald Trump campaigning in two battleground states today from trial to trail. The stage is set for his appearance in Michigan just a few minutes after appearing in the Badger State Wisconsin earlier. What can he expect tomorrow when he finds himself back in that New York courtroom, that's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) …