CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip Aired May 10, 2024 - 22:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [22:00:00] … ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: A historic event is underway tonight as a dazzling display of solar flares are right now painting the sky. Welcome to a special edition of NewsNight. I'm Abby Phillip in New York alongside Bill Weir. And it is a first in nearly two decades. A warning from the government and weather watchers, the solar storm that is now rated a G5 or extreme as of right now on the East Coast is underway. BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: This is a blast of solar energy ricocheting across the United States, a rare moment where you can look up and see the northern lights visible from coast to coast. Normally, you got to go to Northern Alaska or Iceland, but now you can see them as far south as Alabama tonight. But it does have some potentially far-reaching disruptions to our infrastructure and our way of life, Abby. What you can see in places as the auroras are dipping into pallets and splashes of blue and green, their purple haze sort of on a black canvas, which you don't see the real threat to the things that let us make phone calls or get directions, from slamming into each other or letting each other connect for national security or shipping or supply chains or let us beam this programming right into your living room. PHILLIP: So, over the next two hours, CNN will tell you everything you need to know as only CNN can. We have a full roster of experts, weather forecasters, space meteorologists the science guy, astrophysicists, aurora hunters, and all the best glimpses from CNN affiliates around the world, and, of course from you. We've also got Bill Weir here for the entire two hours. But let's get started with CNN's Chad Myers in the Weather Center with more on what this storm is exactly and what we can expect. Chad, this is a little bit of a different assignment for you than usual. You're up in space instead of giving us the weather. So, what should we know? CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: When we were looking at the sun about four or five days ago, we noticed the sunspot getting very, very active. And it is 17 now, 17 times the size of the diameter of the Earth. So, that's how big this thing is. And it started to get active. And then all of a sudden we got a coronal mass ejection, an ejection of plasma that came right toward the Earth. How do we know that it came toward the Earth? Because if it went this way, it'd be well off to our west. But we see a halo of plasma and knows that like a puff of smoke getting blown at you and you want to get out of the way. When you see it all around you, you know it's headed in your direction. So, that's how we know that this is headed toward Earth. And now there are more than one of these CMEs, coronal mass ejections, headed toward Earth, in fact, probably even six more. Things have calmed down just a little bit. I was really looking at Europe about an hour ago and things were purple everywhere. But another ejection will hit the Earth likely around midnight tonight. So, if you're not seeing what you thought you were going to see, just wait an hour or two. A couple of things going on right now, we're still watching this. We're watching for the polarity or the north south axis of this coronal mass ejection, which, by the way, is moving at 1.7 million miles per hour. Keep that in mind when you're thinking about, wow, this is kind of really headed our direction, but we're watching this little red dot here. This is the polarity of the coronal mass ejection when it's below the line. That's when we really get the coronas to light up. So, for a while today, it was above and things calmed down. But now that we're going back down and the polarities coming in from the south. Those northern lights are going to get busy and very, very pretty. WEIR: Chad, I think a lot of folks don't realize there is a rating system for solar storms the way there is for tornadoes. You were worried about F3, F4, F5 tornadoes last week. Now this is a G5 storm. Explain this and put it in context in recent history. MYERS: Yes, we're five of five and we talk about that even with the risk of severe weather. There's a level three of five risk or four or five, and we've had some fours this week and even a five for the high risk of severe weather. Well, we have five of five now for this severe storm and the auroras are going to be farther to the south, but power outages are likely. [22:05:05] Anything that's long in metal will begin to gather this plasma that's out there and start to even -- pipelines will begin to don't touch them kind of thing. We have lots of amperage in pipelines if they're exposed to the air. Satellite disruptions, I think, are probably likely, without a doubt. The plasma, the power coming from the sun more is powerful than the power coming from the satellite itself. Here's a little something though that disturbs me just a second. We are supposed to be today down here in this active category. That's not where we are. We are way up here. Then the forecast for tomorrow was to be where we're right now. What happens tomorrow? Does it even go higher? Do we get to the nine? Do we get to that 9K index? It's still going to be a G5. But if you're all the way down to the south, you are going to see this. If you have cloud cover today, don't worry about it because this is not like an eclipse. This is a multiday event. PHILLIP: Well, for those of us who want to see a little something here in New York, that might be good news. We've got a cloudy day here. So, for those of you waiting, we've got a whole weekend ahead. Chad, thanks very much. We'll check in with you shortly. Again, this extreme five out of five, as you heard Chad say, geomagnetic storm, it is the strongest in more than 20 years. Joining us now is Shawn Dahl. He is the senior forecaster at NOAA's Space Weather Prediction Center. Sean, this storm is at the highest level of the scale that we have to measure these things. So, based on what you've seen so far of the activity and the skies or other metrics that you might have that I'm sure are much more sophisticated, what do you rate this storm as in terms of its intensity? SHAWN DAHL, SENIOR SPACE WEATHER FORECASTER, NOAA'S SPACE WEATHER PREDICTION CENTER: Hi, thanks for having us on. Glad to share information with all your viewers. This here is one of the quite notable proportions. We haven't seen this level of activity since 2003 with the famous Halloween storms where we last hit this type of category. And when we get to these G5 levels, as Chad so explained quite well, you know, you can have a G5 level that's just at my head, and you can have a G5 that's several stories up over my head. We are not at that super nasty G5 level. These are low end G5, extreme storms, still quite significant. And that's why we do have the Space Weather Prediction Center in Colorado, is to inform all the operators of our technologies that Chad talked about, so they can take the proper measures to make sure things still function as much as possible. WEIR: Shawn, I don't know if you're a baseball fan. Abby, you're a baseball fan. I'm going to use that metaphor. PHILLIP: I'll take your word for it. WEIR: But we know that the odds of getting hit in the nose with a foul ball sitting at a game are pretty, pretty rare. But if you do, it's going to hurt a lot. And it feels like the sun is this power hitter on steroids, just blasting energy out into the galaxy, into our Milky Way stadium, and whether or not it hits our seat section right now is what we're paying attention to. How are you able to predict with precision where it will have the most effect, you know, which grids might be the most vulnerable, which side of the Earth? Like how precise can you get? DAHL: Yes. It's very difficult to get precision forecasting for something that's global in nature, and some areas of the world may have more of an effect than other areas, even at similar intensities, just because of the variances in earth's protective magnetic barrier, that magnetosphere, which is what's connecting with the sun, by the way, with this piece that flung out towards Earth, this giant magnetic connection which Chad, by the way, explained very well with the direction of them. So, yes, it's very difficult to forecast space weather storms. I mean, we're dealing with something 93 million miles away and it's extraordinarily difficult to time these. We did a great job knowing that these were going to hit Earth. But our timing was off a bit, and that's no surprise for that vast amount of distance. PHILLIP: Yes. One of the things we've been hearing everybody talk about is how active the sun has been in this part of the cycle. How do we know when it's going to be really, really bad? I mean, this time you said it's up to your head. But how do we know when it is that two or three-storey level that you just described? We might be talking about a G5 that is completely different from the one that we're talking about today. DAHL: Yes, Abby, well said. That's correct. We don't really know until the storm emerges so we can forecast and see them emerge from the sun. But then we have to wait. We have to wait until it gets only a million miles from Earth. That's where our first small fleet of satellites are that detect the changes in what we call the solar wind, which Chad was alluding to with the magnetic field. Then we have very little warning time at that point, but we have to wait until then. So, once we saw it arrive, it arrived like the baseball Bill described hitting you in the face. It struck with force and it immediately started to light up because it was the favorable direction that opposite Earth and it connected. [22:10:05] And we rapidly rose all the way up through G4 and then we hit G5 here later today, and then, once again, I think afterwards as well. So, yes, it works that way. And it's on a cycle, an 11-year cycle on average. And right now we are -- the year where we expect the peak to be of this solar maximum for solar cycle 25 is this year or early next year, but, sorry, it doesn't shut off right away. It takes a little while. 2025 and 2026 will still be at risk for these types of storms. PHILLIP: That's really, really interesting. Shawn Dahl, you've got a really interesting job. I envy you just a little bit. We'll check in with you again. Thank you for joining us. WEIR: Thank you, Shawn. DAHL: I didn't know there were space weathermen. WEIR: You just met one right there. These extraordinary images coming in through social media from around the world as people try to get their first glimpse in many cases of the northern lights, even if they're not that far north. But there are potential hazards associated with this, not to you physically, but our way of life, power grid, communication. CNN Kristin Fisher joins us now with more on that. Kristin, thanks for being here. What are the biggest concerns that we're worried about tonight? KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so as you said, Bill, the biggest concerns don't have anything to do with threats to our actual human bodies, right? I mean, the Earth's magnetosphere acts as kind of an Iron Dome of sorts, you know, kind of deflecting all of those highly charged particles coming from the sun. The biggest dangers have to do with threats to the power grid or threats to the satellites that, you know, contribute so much to our daily lives. And so the biggest threat probably that folks have been saying specifically with this solar storm is with the power grid. Because when all of those highly charged particles interact with our, magnetosphere and the Earth's magnetosphere, what it does is it can cause surges in voltage. And so the fix for it is kind of like how you would imagine a surge protector to work. The power operators, the critical infrastructure operators have been notified about this. There are theoretically fixes in place, surge protections in place to keep this from really impacting us too much. But, you know, the last time in 2003 when there was a really big storm, Sweden faced some pretty big power outages, so did South Africa. So, that's certainly something to watch for. And then the other big thing is, of course, the threat to satellites, disturbances to satellites, particularly in low Earth orbit. Bill and Abby, the one good thing though is they do not anticipate a big disturbance to, you know, our cell phones, because even if there's an issue with the satellite connectivity, you can still connect with cell phone towers here on Earth. And then things like ATMs, that's not expected to be impacted either, unless there's a secondary impact with a power outage associated to that specific ATM machine. PHILLIP: So, Kristin, normally you are covering what's happening as people are going up into space or what's happening in space. What's going on with NASA right now? You talked about the satellites. There are thousands of them up there. But there are also astronauts up there right now too. How are they preparing for this? How are they dealing with it as it's now underway? FISHER: Yes. So, you see on your screen right there, there are seven astronauts. There's NASA astronauts and Russian cosmonauts up at the International Space Station. And while they do get some protection from the Earth's atmosphere, it's certainly not as much as we get here on Earth. And so there are scenarios where these astronauts, they train for this, they go into certain parts of the International Space Station that are more protected. NASA describes it as having more mass where they can kind of go to and they're not right by a window. They get a bit more protection from those really harmful radiation particles. But this time NASA says they're not going to take any precautionary measures. They just put out a statement. I want to read it to you, Abby. It says NASA completed a thorough analysis of recent space weather activity and determined it posed no threat to the crew aboard the International Space Station and no additional precautionary measures are needed. So, some good news there, but, guys, if you all have ever seen the show, For All Mankind, you may remember there's a scene where a big solar storm hits the astronauts up in a futuristic lunar base and they all have to kind of run to take cover, that would happen if you know, NASA's Artemis program goes through, they build a lunar base and then a big solar storm like this comes because the moon doesn't have an atmosphere to protect astronauts on a lunar base like the ISS astronauts do right now. WEIR: Yet, another one of the hazards of -- PHILLIP: We have to think about now. WEIR: -- colonizing other planets, one more thing to think about, Kristin. PHILLIP: I think (INAUDIBLE) that one, Kristin. [22:15:00] WEIR: Thank you so much for that. We'll keep an eye on what things happen tonight and in the coming hours as this happens. PHILLIP: Yes, I want to bring in now CNN's Paula Newton. She is in Dunrobin, Ontario. That's about 15 miles from the Canadian capital of Ottawa. Paula, you're further north of here. What are you seeing now that you're kind of a little bit a ways from the light pollution in the city? PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and that's what I could control for, right, Abby? I could control for the fact that I get away from the city. We're at least here where if we see it, we've got a good eye on it, and Barry, our photojournalist, has an excellent lens. So, we're at the ready. The issue is, though, I have to break it to you guys, in Canada, the Northern Lights, right, I'm not going to say it's common, but, look, we do see it. You know, whether you're at 60 degrees, 58, 62, it cuts the swath through most of Canada. And so we are kind of used to seeing it even when the solar storm isn't that strong. So, OK, we controlled for the light pollution. The problem here is still cloud. We are told that in Western Canada, in fact, there should be less cloud cover tonight. I'm still hopeful right where I am right now that we should have a gorgeous display. Interesting here, normally, we get that green color here. It's actually more of a milky green. So, those gorgeous colors you've seen from England essentially, usually you don't see here but we are ready and waiting and a lot of people will be out on their porches the way I am right now, out on their front and back porches and people waking other people up. Usually, it would be around midnight, 1:00 A.M. Eastern. That's what they're telling us is the most likely time. You know, as I said, if you talk to many people in Canada, especially outdoorsy people, they'll say that they have seen it, you know, a handful of times in their lives, sometimes many more times than that. WEIR: Very good. Yes, the old hat to Canadians, but folks in maybe Alabama could get a little glimpse of this thing if things go well. Paula, thank you so much. We'll check back with you later. More on our special coverage as we await the peak of the solar storm tonight. Bill Nye the Science Guy joins us next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:20:00] WEIR: Welcome back to our special coverage of the extreme solar storm now crossing North America, with the strongest forecast to hit the Earth since 2003. So, let's break it down with Bill Nye, the Science Guy. Bill, welcome in. it's good to have you with us. PHILLIP: Hey, Bill. WEIR: A lot of folks here tonight -- BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: It's great to be here. WEIR: Yes. Well, a lot of folks, myself included, it wasn't until the recent total eclipse that I really tried to understand space weather. A lot of folks don't think about it. Every day is sunny in space. There's no, you know, thunderstorms. But explain what is happening and the significance of what we're experiencing at this moment. NYE: Well, we might think of the sun as a solid object or a disk, but it's spinning about every month. The north and southern parts of the sun, what humans call the north and south parts of the sun, spin a little faster than the middle. And this friction and this interaction with all the gases that make up the outer layers of the sun create these crazy, strong magnetic fields. And from time to time, these charged particles get tossed into space. And so we have both these solar flares, where these zaps of electromagnetic energy photons that you can see, and in the X-ray region, very high frequency, and these charged particles, both come shooting out away from the surface of the sun. And if the orbit of the Earth is in the place where those things are shooting, we get zapped, if I may. And, of course, who could forget the Carrington event in 1859, where this sort of thing went on for a week, and it just ruined a lot of telegraph systems, which was the state of the art at that time. And so the deal is, everybody, the key thing that we have going on here on Earth, which is really good for us living things, is this magnetic field. Inside the Earth is this churning molten iron and nickel, and it creates this magnetic field that enables your compass to work, what have you. And so this is what causes the charged particles to come down at the North and South Pole, down toward the middle of the Earth. And it's the speed of those particles passing through the atmosphere that creates the aurora, the aurora borealis and aurora australis. And so it's fantastic, and you guys have been talking about it, and I'm out west here, and when it gets dark, I'm going to be looking, I'm going to be watching, where you have clear skies tonight. But the other thing, everybody, that is a real danger to our technological society, different from 1859, is how much we depend on electricity and our electronics and so on. And, you know, it was a pretty straight forward bunch of things that went wrong in Texas back in February of 2021, where the power went out and it affected an enormous number of people. Well, we probably have systems in place to manage this interaction of these charged particles with Earth's magnetic field. But stuff might go wrong the way it did back in 2003 in South Africa, for example. [22:25:00] And this is another thing where we need to evaluate our electrical grid and prepare for this sort of deal, because the sun doesn't take a meeting about when it's going to produce one of these things. PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, do you think that as we are becoming -- I mean, it seems to me we're just becoming much more reliant on these things, devices and whatnot, everything is electric. This is not the days of the telegraph. I mean, do you think we are becoming more susceptible to the effects of a really powerful solar storm, or are we becoming more resilient? Where are we in that right now? NYE: The answer is absolutely without question, it depends. It depends on the strength of the event and it depends how much infrastructure -- how much of our infrastructure we have prepared this sort of thing. You've probably heard somebody remind each other that the safest place to be in a lightning storm is in a car. Because the metal of the car makes the energy from the lightning go around the passengers inside. And then it's on rubber tires is not irrelevant effect. But we don't have infrastructure on all of our transformers. I say this because on a competitive network, I did a T.V. show, The End is Nye, where we did six world ending scenarios, where the one that really worries me is this very one, this one show, episode number three, where we get these coronal mass ejections, CMEs, back-to-back. So, if you had really big ones, like he was talking about a third- storey G5, whoa, except in space there's no sound, it would just be. And these things, if they happen 12 hours apart, hypothetically, you could turn off the electricity in the whole world, which would be catastrophic. You know, none of us really in the developed world could go very long without electricity. Oh, you can -- there's survivalists and so on, but just, objectively, if nothing else, the refrigeration goes bad, and we spoil enormous amounts of food. But all this is -- this is all solvable, you guys. WEIR: And medication. NYE: This is all something we understand, the Earth's magnetic field interacting with the charged particles. NYE: But worth worrying about, Bill, even though chances are rare, one study looked back, there was -- in addition to the Carrington event, there was another big one in 1921 that, you know, started fires in telegraph stations because the electricity was so powerful. They did a study that said if that happened now, given our grid, it would cause a $1 to $2 trillion in damage, could take four to ten years to come back from, 160 million Americans could be affected. And the geology of the East Coast actually makes it more conducive to these sorts of things. So, we're thinking about for contingencies, not to worry about, I suppose, tonight, but this is as close as we'll get. NYE: Well, you know, we say, Bill, Abby, everything happens for a reason. And that reason, anyone, is usually physics. So, we do understand this well enough. We can prepare for this. My personal hero, Michael Faraday, coined the noun electromagnetism. He understood that it's the moving magnetic field that creates electricity. Electricity creates a magnetic field, this wonderful interaction. So, we can prepare for this. And you guys, thank you, have been celebrating the beauty of it. These particles will come into the atmosphere and zap up electrons on molecules. And as they fall down, they'll release light photons and it will be lovely. And those of you who have kept your Eclipse glasses, and I hope you have, look at the sun tomorrow. You can see here where I am in about 34 degrees latitude in California, you can see the sunspot right about what you might call 3:30 on the disk of the sun, you know, the position about the 3:00 or 4:00 position of the sun, and it's exciting. And so, everybody, let's celebrate this. Humankind understands it all. How cool. WEIR: Bill Nye, thank you so much for always infecting us with some wonder. We appreciate it. Happy solar storm watching. NYE: Thank you. PHILLIP: Thanks, Bill. NYE: Happy solar storm. PHILLIP: And we've got more coverage of this extreme solar storm event after this break, including reports of an aurora as far south as the state of Georgia. Stay with us and we'll have more. WEIR: Southern lights. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:30:00] PHILLIP: We have more now on our special coverage of this extreme solar storm over North America. We are starting to get pictures as far south as Georgia. Joining us now to help explain what is happening tonight and all across the planet is Brian Greene. He's a professor of physics and mathematics at Columbia University. He's also the director of Columbia's Center for Theoretical Physics. Brian, we were talking a little bit earlier, and Bill Nye earlier, as we were just talking to him, alluded to this. But there's a reason that we're not all freaking out about what this might do to all of us. How can we be so sure that a really massive one of these things isn't going to start to affect us poor humans on the planet Earth? [22:34:55] BRIAN GREENE, PROF. OF PHYSICS AND MATHEMATICS, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Look, you can never be sure when it comes to anything in science. There's always a possibility of some weird anomalous, you know, huge solar flare that, you know, is the kind of thing you see in a disaster movie that will wipe things out. But our understanding of the physics of the sun, our understanding of the processes, gives us confidence that that's not going to happen. We're well aware that the Earth is protected by this magnetic field, so when charged particles from the sun come toward us, this field tends to direct them to the North Pole and to the South Pole. And so, is it possible that some crazy thing could happen? Yes, but incredibly unlikely. BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about what's happening on the sun. We love it, worship it in many ways, keeps us alive, and forget that it's this thermonuclear bomb that's been going off for four billion years. GREENE: A sustained bomb. WEIR: A sustained bomb. And the force of this, I was reading, if we could catch just the force of one solar flare, it could power humanity for 20,000 years or something like that. But in '89, I was reading one of these coronal mass ejections, is what I want you to describe. Shut off the power in Canada, like a quarter of Canada. What is that like? What's the difference between that and the solar flare? GREENE: Yeah, so the coronal mass ejection, you know, the analogy that you used before from baseball is actually pretty good. It's like, you know, you've got Juan Soto or Aaron Judge up there in the form of these bundles of magnetic field lines that get twisted up through the tumultuous activity that takes place on the surface of the sun, yielding these dark spots. That's what sunspots are, where the magnetic field is so strong that it actually suppresses the convection that ordinarily heats the arena, and that's why it's darker, it's cooler. But these magnetic field lines, they act kind of like a slingshot. And so this slingshot, when it is released, can pummel these particles and fire them out into space. And that's how these particles are propelled with substantial energy toward planet Earth. And when these charged particles hit planet Earth, well, things happen, right? Bad things can happen, as we've heard, in terms of potentially having an impact on communications or the electrical grid. But the beautiful side of it, when these charged particles hit the atmosphere, as some of them will do, they can excite the nitrogen and the oxygen in the atmosphere. And when those atoms fall back to their less excited state, they give off light in the form of the aurora borealis, the borealis that we've been seeing. And so that's what's happening. So you've got the beauty side, you've got the danger side, but it all comes to the fundamental physics of these magnetic fields on the sun. PHILLIP: Yeah, and at the moment, I mean, it is a little bit more on the beauty side than the danger side because we haven't seen a whole lot of reports of anything super negative happening in this particular one. But what are we observing about the activity of the sun in general over time? Is it becoming more active? Is it just very unpredictable? We don't know whatever we're going to get? GREENE: Look, the sun is a very complicated physical system. It's this big ball of gas, which, as Bill says, has these nuclear processes, nuclear fusion happening deep in the core, powering the sun, giving rise to energy that ripples through layer by layer of the sun, ultimately getting to the surface. The surface has temperatures ranging from tens of thousands of degrees to millions of degrees near the corona. So it's a very active environment, but you've got to bear in mind, it's been around for five billion years. So in some sense, it's relatively stable on the timescales that matter to us. And we're well aware that there are these 11-year cycles that the sun's activity goes through. And we're heading toward a maximum of one of those periods right now. And that's what we're seeing the effects of. So it's not unexpected. It's not anomalous. But it's hard to predict with precision exactly how powerful it will be in any given moment. PHILLIP: It's crazy to think, Bill, that this is a blip in the universe and in the timescale of the universe. GREENE: We're blips, yeah. PHILLIP: We are blips in the universe. If that's not comforting for you, I don't know what is. WEIR: It's like total eclipse. It gives us a sense of humble perspective. We're on this little blue and green marble hurtling through space at the mercy of physics. GREENE: This is what it all is. We are nothing but collections of particles governed by the laws of physics, the same laws that govern the sun, govern the earth, and govern the things that make up our bodies. So we are nothing but playing out the equations that come down to us from Faraday and from Maxwell and from Einstein, because that's all that's happening right now anywhere in the universe, including here. WEIR: Well, you are among my favorite collection of particles. GREENE: Hey, well, thank you. PHILLIP: And very stylish, too. A collection of particles well put together. WEIR: Thank you so much. GREENE: My pleasure. WEIR: All right. We come back. We're going to speak with a retired astronaut about what NASA is doing in space at this moment as the storm hits. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) WEIR: Welcome back to our special coverage of this extreme solar storm, a G5, the highest on the scale. Abby, I was just reading a couple of years ago, SpaceX, Elon Musk's company, launched about 49 new satellites during a G2 storm, 38 of them failed as a result of that change in the energy out there. PHILLIP: And this is so much more powerful than that. WEIR: So much more powerful. So not just the infrastructure orbiting Earth at risk, potentially might even be power grids on Earth. Let's bring in CNN technology reporter Brian Fung. What is the likelihood of communication breakdown or anything right now, Brian? Like our cell phones, for example, would this be affected? (22:45:01] BRIAN FUNG, CNN TECHNOLOGY REPORTER: Yeah. Bill and Abby, that's a great question. The good news is if you're an average cell phone user, this solar activity may not affect your devices very much. And the exact reasons for that are really interesting. And it gives you a really fascinating glimpse into how our everyday technology really works, not to mention the science behind this storm. So as you've been hearing all evening, the sun's been sending these charged particles toward Earth that interact with our magnetic sphere, and that's what's causing these auroras everywhere. And a byproduct of all of that can be fluctuations in the upper atmosphere that scatter or even block radio transmissions in certain specific frequencies. Now, this shouldn't interfere with cellular signals because those run on different frequencies than the ones we're talking about here. So your calls and your mobile data should still go through. But what can these storms affect? Well, the list includes satellites in orbit that aren't shielded by that magnetic sphere, as well as any signal trying to punch through that ionosphere, that upper layer of the atmosphere we were just talking about. So that could mean glitchy or less accurate GPS readings on ships or airplanes. But again, cell phone GPS might be less affected because phones usually rely on cell towers in addition to satellites to get a location fix. Now, shortwave radio signals, those likely will have issues. That's because in order to increase their range, people typically try to bounce them off the underside of the ionosphere. These storms that obviously gets a lot harder, lots of commercial businesses and government agencies use this type of communication, and so do amateur ham radio operators. All of these users could be affected. There is one way in which the storm could indirectly affect your electronic devices, and that's if the disruptions cause widespread power grid issues. And utility companies say they're monitoring the situation and are prepared. But storm watchers, again, as you said, have upgraded this to the most intense level that exists in the U.S. government's classification system. So if transformers get overloaded and the grid is disrupted, that could cut power to cell towers. And of course, you know, wireless companies do have backup generators on hand in case that becomes a problem. Bill and Abby. PHILLIP: All right. Sounds like we're getting a little better at preparing for these things. Brian Fung, thank you very much. Now take a look at this. You're looking at this video here. This is out of Michigan tonight. You can see a little bit of a purple haze in some parts, green haze in other parts. That is the aurora reaching down well into the United States, where perhaps normally we wouldn't be seeing anything like this on a Friday night. Joining us now to talk about all of this is astrophysicist Hakeem Oluseyi, according to his bio on Twitter. He is science's -- science's greatest hype man. We've talked before, so I believe it. What's got you hyped up about this solar storm? HAKEEM OLUSEYI, ASTROPHYSICIST: Well, thank you for having me tonight. And the first thing I'm hyped up about is I'm following Bill Nye and Brian Greene. That makes me the headliner. WEIR: That's true. They're your openers, Hakeem. OLUSEYI: For me, it's just like the April 8th total solar eclipse. It really brings the fact that we live on a planet that's orbiting a star that's in a galaxy to our front door. It brings it down to Earth. When you think about astronomical phenomena that are naked eye, aurorae are right up there. They're right behind. If you ask me, I'd say a total solar eclipse is clearly number one. But next to a bright comet, aurorae are pretty amazing to see. And if you're near the northern extremes or the southern extremes, we cannot just get the colors in the sky, but the actual undulating curtains of nebulosity. That's pretty awesome. And so the fact that that's going to extend to more people around the world, that's pretty cool. PHILLIP: Curtains of nebulosity. WIER; Nebulosity. PHILLIP: That's a good one. WEIR: A good album title. Your enthusiasm, your wonder for this is infectious, but we're news folk and we have to be the Debbie Downer every now and then and think about the cost of this, the potential risk of this sort of thing. From the GPS that have these atomic clocks that are synchronized down to the billionth to the second that our financial and national security information depends on those, to the grids. How worried are you on a scale of one to 10 about this doing damage to our way of life within our lifetimes or within the next few years? OLUSEYI: Well, it really does depend, and so I have not been very nervous about it because we talk about the fact that the sun has an 11 year cycle between maxima and minima, but all maxima are not the same. And in recent decades, the maxima have been decreasing in intensity. And so it was predicted previously that we might not even have a maximum this time around, but it turns out that we do. [22:50:02] So things could get much more energetical on the surface of the sun than what we're dealing with right now. And the other thing is, is that it's not just what the sun's magnetic field and the Earth's magnetic field is doing. It's also how we design our technology to mediate the effects of geomagnetic storms. So just like the astronauts can go into a safe room if there's a high radiation event, satellites can be put into safety mode. And I'm hoping that our ground-based surface electrical infrastructure also have safe modes so that we don't have events like we had in the early 20th century or late 19th century where things caught on fire because of big currents surging through our electric infrastructure. PHILLIP: Yeah, we're looking, as you're talking there, Hakeem, at some pictures out of Decatur, Alabama. I mean, that's actually much further south, I think, than we were really expecting for this one. It just goes to show that the expectation we started this night at a G4, now we're at a G5. The intensity is getting more extreme. But the pictures for the rest of the country are really spectacular for people who might otherwise never see this. I've been asking people this in terms of the risk of it getting much worse, much more intense in the future. And I mean, what do you think about that? I mean, what do you think is going to be the likelihood that we might see a really, really big one, like one of those once in a lifetime kind of storms? OLUSEYI: Yeah, so two things. First thing is seeing these things very far away. If you look at photographs of aurorae from space, they're going from the top of the atmosphere up, flare at very high altitudes. So just like everywhere on the night side of the Earth can see the moon because it's at a super high altitude, in a manner of speaking, you don't have to be right under the aurora to see them. You can see them like 600 miles away because, you know, you're looking at something that's very far away. Now, as far as the big one goes, we do predict what's happening on the surface of the sun. We have a science called helioseismology, just like we have seismology here on Earth. And helioseismology has the ability to not just see what's going on subsurface on the sun, but what's coming around on the other side. So there is a signature in these so-called active regions where sunspots are, where you see this sigmoidal thing is shaped like an S, and that lets us know that that thing is about to blow. Now, here's the other thing we know about the sun. Geological data shows us that in the past, the sun was way more active than it is today. It has cycles where it goes very quiet, like what was called the Maunder Minimum a few hundred years ago and was associated with the Little Ice Age and the potato famine in Ireland. And you have events that show that the solar activity was much, much greater. So there's no evidence that we're going to see those big maxima this cycle. But, you know, it is even though it's predictable on short terms, we still don't quite understand what creates the magnetic fields in the sun, the so-called solar magnetosphere. And we don't understand all of the ways that energy gets injected via magnetic reconnection and waves on magnetic fields. So there's a lot more to learn. Right. That's why NASA has so many satellites looking at the sun. Space weather is important. WEIR: There are some scientists who think that there's a 12 percent chance of a G5 plus solar storm hitting Earth within the next 10 years. Hakeem, not among those, obviously the 12 percent. PHILLIP: I'm going to go with Hakeem on this one. OLUSEYI: You know, if you look at the error bar on that prediction, it's going to be pretty big. WEIR: Pretty big. OLUSEYI: Yeah. It's to the point of speculation. WEIR: Yeah. OLUSEYI: So, you know, what you could say is something like every century or so, we get something that size. So maybe we're now overdue. Right. WEIR: Well, Hakeem, we appreciate your time and enthusiasm tonight. Thank you so much. Enjoy the light show tonight. We'll check back with you in the coming days. And Lawrence, your pictures are really starting to come in now and we'll show them on the air from all quarters. Stay with us on an exciting night. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [22:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) WEIR: I'm here with Abby Phillips, her show, by the way, as we cover this. PHILLIP: You're a good visitor to have. WEIR: Thank you for having a massive solar storm. More on that in a second. But let's talk about Champions for Change. This is a franchise we do every year here at CNN where we celebrate sort of positive stories of ordinary folks stepping up. And I'm back. I get to tell a champion story this year. And I chose a woman, an NFL mom named Annette Rubin, who married a Seattle Seahawk and then retired in the Florida Gulf Coast just in time for her first hurricane. And it shook her up so much. She imported a new way to build hurricane-proof construction, a technology from Italy she's bringing to the Gulf Coast to try to spare other mothers from the fright of a category five storm coming their way. It's a fascinating, disruptive idea in construction. Can't wait to share the whole thing with you. And here's a sample of some of our other champions this year. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNKNOWN: A lot of the people that we worked with are deemed nonviable citizens, which just blows my mind. UNKNOWN: There's this quote that said that the opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is human connection. [23:00:07] UNKNOWN: I decided I would create a business to empower people with autism and related disabilities through gainful employment in the car wash industry. UNKNOWN: I launched a brand with the intention to really just diversify the wine industry. UNKNOWN: Instead of looking at things glass half empty, look at things glass half full. What difference can you make in your community? UNKNOWN: For every blanket that we sell, we'll donate a blanket to your local homeless shelter. UNKNOWN: I've dedicated my life to searching for new medicines from nature to combat the worst drug resistant infections. UNKNOWN: We believe robotics will unlock many technologies for all humanity to live longer. UNKNOWN: We've mapped more of the surface of Mars than we have our oceans. So we have this ambitious goal over the next six years to map a million reefs. UNKNOWN: You know, there's so many things that we can be creative as Native people by simply reimagining stuff that we already have. UNKNOWN: But that's mind blowing to know that if I can plant a seed in somebody unknowingly, but just doing my job, it will influence them to be a more productive citizen. UNKNOWN: If we all come together and do a small part, we're going to make a huge impact. (END VIDEO CLIP) WIER: We like to restore a little faith in humanity. PHILLIP: Yeah, I love this. Honestly, I love this time of year. It's important to tell these kinds of stories, really, Bill. WEIR: Absolutely. PHILLIP: All right. Well, we've got much more ahead in the next hour of our special coverage. Next Saturday night, this Champions for Change will be airing. But for now, we are continuing our coverage of this major solar storm that continues right now. CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip Aired May 10, 2024 - 23:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [23:00:00] … LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It is a night to remember, a historic display that you'll probably be telling your friends about as you go into the weekend. In Michigan, we've got some new pictures just in showing this solar flare that you can see following in the dark. Over western Tennessee as well, blinding light, clasping colors. CNN just got pictures from Georgia as well, purple bursting in the night sky. Glimmers of gold as well outside of Atlanta. Welcome to our two-hour special edition of "NewsNight." I'm Abby Phillip. WEIR: And I'm Bill Weir. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Those colors splashed across skies not used to seeing the northern lights. A perfect shade of dark blue, you know, sort of lighting up the sky in various places. But there could be resounding consequences to human infrastructure as a result of all of that energy crackling through the sky tonight. In the Rockies, Saskatoon, Highway 1, every city, you can see every color across the sky. This one is rated a G5 out of 5, top of the scale. And right now, it is hitting across the East Coast. PHILLIP: So, you probably have gotten this by now. You probably don't even remember the last time this happened. But it is extremely rare. It is a once-in-two-decade solar burst. It's aiming for (INAUDIBLE) but it might end up being a riptide at the end of the day. We'll find out as the weekend continues. The country may soon have to say so long and goodnight to some of the things that we rely on every day, at least temporarily. Satellites, thousands of them that are up in the solar system, may go offline. Telecom companies, they say that they're prepared for some of the fallout from this and they can deploy repairs at the solar flare's notice. But any breaks in the solar system would create a lot of panic, well, pretty much everywhere. So, we have been watching and working with our CNN affiliates all around the world to get this information to you. So, let's start off with CNN's Chad Myers in the Weather Center with more on what this storm is exactly and what we can expect from this point forward. Chad, we have been seeing actually so many great images. CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST AND SEVERE WEATHER EXPERT: Yeah. PHILLIP: What does it tell us about just how this thing is progressing? MYERS: Well, I just got an email from someone in Scotland that said, I see these northern lights all the time, but I have never seen them to my south. And he turned the camera around, pointed the wrong way, didn't point toward the North Pole, but he showed me these pictures pointing to the south. So, yes, this is a major, major G5 storm. Started off with solar flares, and all of a sudden, we got a coronal mass ejection. What is that? Just a bunch of plasma that the sun threw at us. And we're expecting a new arrival of a CME, another energetic part of this plasma storm that's coming into the Earth, probably somewhere around midnight Eastern time. So, if you're outside and you're not seeing what you thought you were going to see, just wait an hour because you just never know. This is going to be another big one to really energize the system again. [23:05:03] And so, this coronal mass ejection will certainly get us back to the pictures that we saw maybe like in Finland a few hours ago. It was amazing. Things have calmed down. But with the secondary blast now, all of a sudden, the U.S. is going to see it as well. Think about this as a seismograph that you would see in California, where the earth isn't shaking at all, then all of a sudden, there's an earthquake, and then you see the thing, the needle goes back up and down. Well, this is the solar storm happening at about 12:45 this afternoon. And things have been shaking the entire time, and we're about to shake it some more. Aurora is farther south. I just saw some pictures from College Station, Texas. There are some pictures there of the pink sky that they're seeing. Powder outages, though, these are probably the biggest problems that we could see. And then, of course, the satellite disruptions. When so much solar wind comes into the atmosphere, it can actually like you trying to yell at the umpire when the rest of the crowd is cheering. He's not going to hear you because your voice isn't loud enough, like the voice of that satellite isn't loud enough. Where will you see it? Possibly almost down to the Gulf Coast. Now, where will you won't see it? Here, where the clouds are. Good news, guys. This isn't a one-night event. This is not an eclipse event. This is going to go on for night after night after night. WEIR: Chad, thank you, sir. Exciting stuff. Doing the weather on the sun for a change. (LAUGHTER) Let's go to CNN's Paula Newton in Dunrobin, Ontario now. She's just outside of Ottawa in Canada there. Paula, they're -- you're not familiar up there. Not exactly a novelty in Canada. But are they any brighter tonight? Is there any more excitement given the G5 status? PAULA NEWTON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Listen, it is still always spectacular. And what Canadians heard was that because of the strength of this storm, and you just heard Chad go through it, the colors might be different, right? We're used to kind of that greeny color, the milky color, sometimes some blues. It's that purples, in some cases, the pink. They're really looking in different directions and in different areas to see if they can see that intense color. I will say, though, that the cloud cover here in the eastern part of Canada where I am is kind of keeping things at bay. I'm glad that Chad said that perhaps by midnight, we will get a second shot at this. Hopefully, it'll give some time for the clouds to abate. But even though Canadians are used to it here, the magnitude of this storm, the sheer strength of it is really what is catching everyone off guard. And I heard you guys talk last hour about 1989 in Quebec. Quebec is right over my shoulder across the river there. They had a huge blackout, just talking about things that can happen. Massive blackout in the entire province. Millions of people shut down. And again, it was because of this solar -- this kind of a solar ejection. I guess the issue is now, we are told, that this is unlikely to happen going forward, no matter the strength of the storm. They've reinforced the grids, and things are done differently right now through the grid so that wouldn't happen. But the other thing that I just find amazing is the fact that Chad is tracking this with satellites, that in 1989, when that big blackout happened, did not exist. So, we know so much more now about these kinds of solar storms in terms of what's happening, their magnitude, and when they're going to happen than we did back then. So just extraordinary information, which means people aren't on their porch every minute of the evening, but certainly keeping an eye to the sky and waiting for those clouds to clear. WEIR: I'm sure these folks at NOAA are learning even more as the night progresses over this big one. Paula, thank you so much. PHILLIP: And this massive solar storm is generating breathtaking auroras that Americans are seeing from Maine to Florida. For more on this storm and some of the problems that this event could cause to our power grids, as we've been discussing, and communication system, here is Kristin Fisher. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The biggest solar storm in nearly two decades started with this massive burst of energy on Wednesday. It's called a coronal mass ejection, and those highly charged particles have been barreling towards Earth at 500 miles per second ever since. The first particles began striking Earth's magnetic field Friday afternoon, and forecasters expect it to intensify into the night and perhaps through the weekend. HAKEEM OLUSEYL, ASTROPHYSICIST: Just think of gazillions of protons coming toward Earth at the same time. There are also electrons in there. There are also magnetic fields. And when they hit the Earth's magnetic field or any other planet's magnetic field, they interact with that field. And those changes generate currents which can damage power grids, satellites, anything that has an electrical conductor involved. FISHER (voice-over): The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration is describing this storm as an extraordinary and very rare event, one that also has them a little concerned. The biggest threats are to satellites and to global power grids. NOAA says it notified critical infrastructure operators and that mitigation efforts have been taken. [23:10:03] But it's still warning of possible widespread voltage control problems. OLUSEYL: The last time we had a big power outage due to a geomagnetic storm was in the 80s. Have we fixed things since then? We're going to find out. FISHER (voice-over): Satellites will also be tested. Most can go into a safe mode during a solar storm. But just two years ago, SpaceX lost 40 of its Starlink Internet satellites during a geomagnetic storm that wasn't as strong as this one. And then there's the threat to people in space. UNKNOWN: This is Jamestown (INAUDIBLE) astronauts. We got a solar storm coming in and it's a hot one. FISHER (voice-over): Apple TV's "For All Mankind" envisioned astronauts on the moon running for cover to dodge the incoming radiation during a strong solar storm. In reality, it's the astronauts currently on board the International Space Station that may need to shelter in more protected portions of the orbiting outpost. OLUSEYL: Space radiation is a known phenomenon that is dangerous to biology, whether it's during a geomagnetic storm or just the general tryst into outer space. FISHER (voice-over): But despite the potential danger, a solar storm also rewards us with some of the most spectacular auroras, and this time over a wider area, extending as far south as Alabama. OLUSEYL: The beauty of a nice coronal mass ejection is that we get to have an astronomical event basically come to us from space that's visible to the naked eye. We all just recently experienced this with the total solar eclipse that happened in April. So now seeing the northern lights, that is another extraordinary astronomical event. (END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIP: Kristin, thank you for that report. One thing that is very different about this super solar storm is that we now have these phones that actually are so detailed and powerful that they can actually capture the lights and the changes and the differentiation in the color. That wasn't there 20 years ago, the last time we saw something like this. FISHER (on camera): Yeah. And you know, Abby, I was going to try to go out and take a picture with my phone. I'm so upset -- (LAUGHTER) -- that here in D.C., it's cloudy and raining. It's going to be like that through the whole weekend. I'm so disappointed. But, apparently, your phone can take pictures and see things that the human eye can't see. PHILLIP: Yeah. FISHER: So, go out, take a picture, especially if you use the long exposure setting on your phone crank up some of those saturation and the contrast. And apparently, you can capture some really great auroras that -- that the eye can't see. PHILLIP: Well, Kristen -- FISHER: But a bummer for the folks here in D.C. PHILLIP: Don't give up because it is also rainy and cloudy here in New York. And I've been getting photos from people -- FISHER: Really? PHILLIP: -- nearby in New Jersey who are seeing purple skies. And so, go outside, check back with us, let us know -- (LAUGHTER) -- if you're able to take a little peek at something. You might -- you might get a little bit lucky. Thanks, Kristin. FISHER: Thanks. WEIR: Not to be confused with folks in New Jersey who see purple skies on a Wednesday. PHILLIP: (INAUDIBLE) for different reason (ph). (LAUGHTER) WEIR: We have pictures here. Is this Grand Forks? Yes. North Dakota. You can see the green and pink illuminating the sky right there. This is an exciting night for astrophysicists around the world, I'm guessing, including our next guest, Janna Levin from Columbia University, also author of the "Black Hole Survival Guide." Thanks for being with us. JANNA LEVIN, ASTROPHYSICIST: Thank you for having me. WEIR: What do you make of tonight's events? Well, it is rare and it's -- it's such a dramatic event. But I want to remind people that we are also electromagnetic. (LAUGHTER) We're talking a lot about technology. We have thousands of satellites in low Earth orbit and some that are really quite far away. But we are also electromagnetic. We conduct electricity. That's why you don't want to dry your hair in the bath. And so, this is dangerous to us, which is why it's dangerous to the astronauts in the International Space Station. But they're not that far out. They're 250 miles up above the Earth's surface. So, they're within the protection of the Earth's magnetic field, as are we. And that literally acts like a shield. And it keeps the charged particles in these spiraled orbits where we're seeing the aurora borealis coming from and these northern lights stretching all the way down south here. But it doesn't let it cut all the way through. WEIR: Right. LEVIN: So, we're somewhat protected. PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, that's -- that's reassuring. LEVIN: Yeah. PHILLIP: A little bit. LEVIN: Yeah. (LAUGHTER) PHILLIP: I want to ask you about black holes. That's for another day. LEVIN: Well, our sun will not become a black hole, mercifully. PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, we've been talking about the time horizon here for this stuff. And the sun is burning at these incredible levels and has been doing this for so long. And yet these flares get to Earth actually surprisingly quickly. LEVIN: Yeah. PHILLIP: Tell us about kind of why it's going to be a whole weekend, for example, that we might be seeing the light show, we might be experiencing this phenomenon. [23:15:05] LEVIN: So, the sun is burning millions of essentially nuclear bombs every second. And it's been doing that, as you said, on the show for four and a half billion years. So, it's an incredibly powerful system. And it takes a while for some of that energy to make it out to the surface of the sun. It could take a hundred thousand years, really, for some of it to spread out. But we're getting the mass ejections from the outermost atmosphere. And these plumes are incredibly powerful right now because the sun has this magnetic cycle. It's at a peak. And these magnetic fields, they form almost like -- like rains or arches on the surface of the sun. They're like they're rooted in the sunspots. The sunspots are like these anchors. And when they're ejected, they're at incredibly high speeds. It takes light, eight minutes, to get to us from the sun. WEIR: Ninety-three million miles, right? LEVIN: Yeah, exactly. So, in eight minutes, the, you know, speed of light is really fast. (LAUGHTER) But we're still seeing the sun as it was eight minutes ago. But some of these mass ejections are trillions of kilograms. I mean, they're -- they're slower. WEIR: And they're slower. LEVIN: They're taking longer, but still hours, maybe tens of hours. WEIR: The analogy I read, I really liked, was from a great piece, in "The New Yorker," has great background on this. But if solar flares are like a muzzle flash from a gun -- UNKNOWN: Uh-hmm. WEIR: -- the coronal mass ejection is like a cannonball coming out. LEVIN: Right. Yeah. WEIR: And it's pushing all these electrons and protons through the galaxy. You know, sort of drafting. So, all that energy following -- UNKNOWN: Uh-hmm. WEIR: -- the cannonball is what hits with the storm. UNKNOWN: Yeah. WEIR: Correct? UNKNOWN: Yeah. UNKNOWN: And -- WEIR: Is there -- what does science need to get more precise about predicting these things or is it just so hard? LEVIN: It might not ever get that precise. It's -- it's -- it's a messy system. If you look at our own magnetic field, this wonderful shield that we have, it's very compressed on the daylight side where the sun is bombarding it all the time with solar winds. That's all the time. And that magnetic influence stretches all the way past Pluto. And those solar winds are going really fast. These mass ejections, like you said, they're -- they're slower. They're barreling at us. They're -- they're -- they're lobbing incredibly energetic plasmas at us on that compressed side. And it may be that these are just very chaotic, irregular systems that -- that don't yield to precise predictions. There's a lot of chaotic systems in the solar system. That's why we can't perfectly -- PHILLIP: Yeah. LEVIN: -- predict things coming out of asteroid clouds or comets. PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, as an astrophysicist and somebody who studies and loves the universe, what are you learning as you're just experiencing this and experiencing this as a G5? It's not super common, not entirely unheard of, but not super common. LEVIN: Well, it is amazing that we've gotten better at predicting it. Even the idea that we have this roughly 11-year solar cycle isn't something we understood a few decades ago. We were sending astronauts to the moon without protection. I mean, you know -- (LAUGHTER) -- they were walking around in the moon. And just like that clip you showed, yeah, they're not running -- PHILLIP: Yeah. LEVIN: -- for cover because there was a G5 event. We didn't know how to predict that. So, I really see that one of the things that's very interesting to me, I often joke, I'm mostly interested in things that happened more than a billion years ago. (LAUGHTER) Like this is really like local news for me. Like, oh, the solar system. You know, things are billions of light years away. But what it tells me about things like that is that there are other solar systems. There are possibly more stars in our Milky Way galaxy that have planets than don't or multiple planets around each of them. So, there are these star systems where we're talking about the possibility of the emergence of life. And one of the things that we suspect might be needed for the emergence of life is a protective magnetic field from the radiation of their own stars. So -- PHILLIP: If we didn't have it, we wouldn't be sitting here. LEVIN: No, we wouldn't. Which is why, for me, this is big news, because it is talking about the fact that maybe there are more planets in the universe and there are stars and that there's life out there. WEIR: Maybe there's a news crew interviewing astrophysicists -- LEVIN: That's right, looking at us. WEIR: Looking at us. LEVIN: And in like 100,000 years, they'll realize there was a G5 storm. PHILLIP: Yeah. (LAUGHTER) PHILLIP: That's a little too deep even for me. WEIR: Janna Levin. Read the "Black Hole Survival Guide" if this piques your interest. Thank you so much for coming in tonight. LEVIN: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. WEIR: Another blast of plasma expected within the hour. We've got much more ahead as we follow the latest develops in this massive solar storm, including a photographer who captured that incredible image. He'll join us live with more of what he has seen next, and an astronaut who was on the International Space Station while a similar severe solar storm happened. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) WEIR: We are getting new images just in out of the northern lights in Portland, Maine tonight. Take a look at those vibrant colors. Incredibly picturesque scene next to a lighthouse there, it looks like, taken by photographer Benjamin Williamson, who joins us now via the phone. Hello, Benjamin. Can you hear us? BENJAMIN WILLIAMSON, PHOTOGRAPHER (via telephone): I can hear you. Good evening. WEIR: Thanks. Thanks for taking some time to talk to us. Tell me about this photograph and what it's like. Do you see the aurora borealis normally up in Maine, and how does this one compare? WILLIAMSON (via telephone): We don't see it that often. I've seen it a few times on the horizon. You know, a pink or a green glow kind of in the distance, but nothing like we've had tonight and continuing. [23:25:03] I'm still outside. It is one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. (LAUGHTER) The awe and wonder. It's amazing. PHILLIP: Yeah. It almost doesn't even look real. These -- it just looks like something AI-generated. WEIR: No filters, hopefully. WILLIAMSON (via telephone): No. PHILLIP: But you are a photographer. Did you have to do anything different to capture the range of colors, the kind of array of the aurora in these photos? WILLIAMSON (via telephone): I'm almost embarrassed to say that those are photos of the back of my camera, and I haven't done any editing or -- PHILLIP: Oh, wow. WILLIAMSON (via telephone): -- anything to the images because I haven't had time to sit down at the computer. But it is true that when you take a long exposure, you pull out a little bit more color than the human eye can see in person. But I've seen those colors very clearly myself with my own eyes this evening. But it might be a little more vibrant in the images you're seeing on the screen. WEIR: Yeah, it looks like you're under one of Maine's iconic lighthouses there. Is that in Portland? WILLIAMSON (via telephone): Yes, sir. We're at Portland Headlight in Cape Elizabeth, which is a world-famous lighthouse just south of Portland. WEIR: And is it -- are you a solo stargazer tonight or is the community out celebrating this, enjoying this? It's just the excitement in your voice makes me hope there are people there to share it with you. WILLIAMSON (via telephone): There was one other person out here, which was very surprising to me. I think a lot of people here went north, thinking that they would have to travel some distance to see this when really, you know, my sister in Louisiana said she's seeing it down there. (LAUGHTER) And it's overhead here. I didn't have to travel far. PHILLIP: Yeah. How does this compare for you to -- I mean, I don't know what you normally photograph in your work, but when you get a chance to capture this pretty rare occurrence, how does that compare as an experience? WILLIAMSON (via telephone): You know, the first comparison that comes to mind is the solar eclipse, which I just got to witness over Maine's Great Mountain, Katahdin, you know, not long ago, last month. That was amazing and absolutely incredible. But this is better right there with it. My whole photography practice really is centered around awe and wonder. So, I photograph a lot of extreme weather, winter storms here, and the beauty of nature along with the beauty of the coast of Maine. WEIR: So, for the photography, the photo bugs out there, what -- what kind of setup do you have? Are you spending the night out there to try to capture this with time lapses or anything? What are you doing? WILLIAMSON (via telephone): I've got a mirrorless camera, a Sony mirrorless that does a really good job in low light. I'm not doing any time lapse, though I wish I was. I'm mostly focused on gathering still images. I've got a really brisk business selling prints in the area. I know that these will do really well as prints. (LAUGHTER) And I also lead photography workshops. So, this will be great promotional material. Not promising to anyone else we'll see an aurora like this, but maybe bringing some attention to my business. PHILLIP: Yeah. WEIR: Absolutely. PHILLIP: Well, you couldn't be in a better state to do this. (LAUGHTER) You couldn't be really a better person, someone who's out there looking for the wonder in nature. Benjamin, thanks for being with us tonight. Really interesting. And I can't wait to see the actual -- WEIR: Photo. PHILLIP: If this is a photo of the back of your camera -- WEIR: Yes. PHILLIP: -- I cannot wait to see what the actual images end up looking like. I guess I'll have to come up to Maine and purchase them from you. WILLIAMSON (via telephone): They'll be on my website. And I'm so happy to hear you say that because I can't wait either. (LAUGHTER) PHILLIP: Yeah, it's going to be fantastic. Thanks for being with us. WEIR: Congratulations, Benjamin, being -- WILLIAMSON (via telephone): Thanks for having me. WEIR: -- at the right time. You bet. Thanks for sharing your wonder with us. Gazillions, gazillions and gazillions of protons coming at Earth right now. The effects, of course, dazzling lights, but also potential problems with the electrical grid. And we're going to speak to an expert about that concern right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:30:00] PHILLIP: We are closely monitoring this solar storm and whether it will have an impact on the power grid. Utility companies across America are also monitoring this storm. A utility company in Detroit says that it's pausing non-essential maintenance and testing activities. So far, the good news is no issues, Bill. Right now, we've just been having these great images that you're seeing there on your screen all night long, coming from all across the country, even as far as southern Florida. This one is from Grand Forks, North Dakota. But with us now is Dr. Paul Moses. He's a professor at the University of Oklahoma and the head of the electrical focus Moses Lab. Dr. Moses, thanks for being here. Any signs that you're picking up from your networks about any issues, large or small, with the power grid? This has seemed to be based on just the light show that we're seeing a very wide ranging, very powerful solar storm. [23:35:00] PAUL MOSES, PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA, DIRECTOR OF LABORATORY FOR ELECTRICAL ENERGY AND POWER SYSTEMS: Right. Thank you for having me, first of all. And yeah, I've been monitoring the situation like everyone else. I haven't heard of any reports of any equipment damage or outages so far. So -- WEIR: Thank goodness. Knock wood that that holds. University of Oklahoma, a great electrical engineering school there as well. So, you're equipped to tell us how far have we come as a country to prepare for these sorts of things. How much can you solar windproof a transformer, for example? MOSES: Okay, there has been a lot that we've learned over the last several decades, especially since 1989, when that major storm happened, knocked out the Quebec power grid. The main thing, I think, is we have more measurement and instrumentation out there, more situational awareness so that we can see a problem developing, so this -- this deployment of extra sensors and measurement equipment. And also, the North American Reliability Commission have mandated all utilities to have action plans ready for such an event. So, I think we're well prepared. PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, what do you think is left to be done? I mean, you study this very closely. Do you see vulnerabilities out there that are not yet addressed? MOSES: Yeah, one area that I'm focusing on, which is the role of renewable energy, this -- the power grid has changed quite fundamentally over the past 20, 30 years of more solar, more wind. So, it's an it's an unknown how this disturbance will interact with these new resources coming online. So, that's why I've got some funding from the National Science Foundation to study that very problem. WEIR: Yeah. A lot of folks, though, may not realize that Texas is the greenest state in the union because of the prices of solar and wind. Now, Texas, which has its own grid, essentially leads the nation in those sources of energy. And if I understand it right, Dr. Moses, most of our grid, which is this big Rube Goldberg machine from coast to coast with thousands of different inputs and connection lines, is running on alternating current AC, but the sun is shooting direct current DC at us, and that's what causes the problem. Does that manifest itself in like blown transformers? What does it look like? Would you notice it? MOSES: Yes, that's -- you know, I think you described it well. So, the power system operates an alternating current like a sine wave, very fast, and the current that's induced actually in the ground by this magnetic field variation is more like a DC direct current. So, when you mix the AC and the DC in a power system that's designed for AC alternating current, you get some strange effects. Transformers, for example, were only designed to operate on alternating current. Now, you have AC plus DC, and that causes transformers to operate in a higher temperature and more under thermal stress. They may not last as long if that current gets very high. PHILLIP: And are you finding that with what you're studying with renewables and its increased usage in the sort of how we power this Earth, that the people who are in charge of passing laws and allocating funds are taking these risks seriously? It strikes me that a G5 event like this one is probably a pretty good wake-up call that these things can get pretty powerful. MOSES: That's right. I would say one of the regulators, the North American Electric Reliability Commission, they have -- I've been talking with them and they have -- definitely, this is on their radar, the role of renewable energy, this new system that's going to be increasingly more prevalent in the future, how that's going to interact with this new -- with this disturbance. Definitely, we've been doing a lot of modelling and simulation to try and predict where the vulnerabilities are. So, I'd say we are still in the early stages of that study, and there's a lot more to explore. PHILLIP: Hmm. WEIR: A couple of years ago, FEMA looked at all the threats out there to society and said only two could shut down the country en masse, a pandemic or a solar storm like this one. We've already seen the pandemic. We'd rather not do the second one these days. So, we hope that that the worst possibilities aren't happening. Dr. Paul Moses, thank you for your insight tonight. We appreciate it. MOSES: Thank you. WEIR: All right. Multiple agencies across the country monitoring the extreme solar storm tonight. We will tell you who else is concerned and why after this. [23:40:02] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIP: We're back with our coverage of the extreme solar storm all across really planet Earth. I want to bring in now Craig Fugate. He's the former FEMA administrator and former member of the NOAA Space Weather Advisory Group. Also, with us, Dr. Jennifer Meehan, assistant director for space policy at the White House. Dr. Meehan and Craig Fugate, thank you both for being here with us. Dr. Meehan, I want to start with you. [23:44:55] What are the steps that the government has taken to get us to the point where as of right now, it has been a couple of hours, and we're not really hearing a lot of reports that anything catastrophic has happened? JENNIFER MEEHAN, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR SPACE POLICY, WHITE HOUSE OFFICE OF SCIENCE & TECHNOLOGY POLICY: Yeah, so, great question. So, over the past decade, we -- the federal government has realized that this is a huge problem on a global scale. And so, they've really taken the steps to ensure that our nation can build resilience and mitigation towards the effects of space weather. And so, in the Obama-Biden administration, there was a space weather subcommittee developed in the White House, which got together over 30 different departments, agencies, and offices to come up with some strategies, space weather strategy and action plan, that the government can take to ensure that our -- that our nation would be prepared. And also, Congress took note and said, okay, well, the federal government is doing the role, but we need to have an advisory group. And so, they passed the (INAUDIBLE) that have legislation in 2020, which developed the space solar advisory group that we have the pleasure of having Craig to get on to give the academics and give the private industry and give the non-government end users the advisory role to kind of help guide us on what we need to do to protect our nation from space weather. WEIR: Craig, I was reading an account of early in your days there at FEMA. Like most of the folks tonight, people within the emergency management community weren't even sure what a G5 solar storm was at the time. I imagine so many people have come so far from there. But do you agree with those scientists who worry that there's a 12% chance that a big storm like this could hit Earth in the next decade? CRAIG FUGATE, FORMER ADMINISTRATOR, FEMA: Yeah, it's the -- it's what we don't know. We have some historical events like the Carrington Event back in the 1850s that if you look at it today and our dependence upon technologies, we're not sure that we have done what could be, you know, in many cases, the steps to mitigate or, as was pointed out earlier, we're changing our system so fast, bringing on renewable energy and having to manage very complex grid operations over long distances. We don't know if these are increasing our vulnerabilities or making them less. So, for the emergency management community, it's that unknown. I think that's part of the work we've been doing, Space Weather Advisory Group, is making sure that we are able to inform Congress. These are the questions we still need to answer to make sure we can build resilient infrastructure against these extreme storms. PHILLIP: I mean, Dr. Meehan, I wonder what your take is on that. I mean, we've been talking a little bit more recently about those renewables and the way that it's changing on the ground so rapidly. It's also in the United States a fairly decentralized system in terms of how our energy is managed and distributed across the country. So, where do you think we stand given that, so far, it seems that there are not any catastrophic reports? Is it so far, so good? MEEHAN: Right. So, that's the thing about space weather, right? If you don't hear anything, it means we did our job, we took our mitigating procedures, we protected ourselves. Right? So, you know, it's unlike a hurricane. We could see it coming. It's coming regardless of what you do. Right? And so, with space weather, we can take those mitigation steps that we've been working really hard on. So, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, also known as FERC, back in 2012, actually said, hey, you know, grid owners and operators, look at your vulnerabilities, do your assessments, and come up with ways that you can mitigate the effects of space weather storms. And so, you're seeing that happening. As soon as we hit that G5 today, we called that FERC hotline, we alerted the grid operators, and they started taking the actions needed. They are seeing effects in their systems. But because we have those mitigation techniques, we are able to kind of alleviate those right now. Right? So, we don't know what's coming through the weekend. We keep seeing CME after CME, as you've heard. And so right now, all is okay, even though we are seeing effects, but it's because we have been taking those steps for mitigation over the past decade that we're really, you know, building that resilience that we're seeing now. WEIR: Yeah. Craig, the -- I wonder if -- I'm sort of -- is there somebody at every utility who has to think about this problem now? Is it -- is it that sort of well-known, the threat of these things, that wherever you happen to be in the country, somebody tonight is monitoring things and trying to keep things from going dark? FUGATE: Yes, across industry sectors, actually. So, it's not just -- it's not just electric utilities. But this is really a watershed moment. You know, we go back to 2009 when I walked into FEMA. I said, what's our plan for space weather? They said, what space weather? And tonight, the federal agencies, including FEMA, are monitoring this event. And in FEMA's case, they're looking, are there any impacts to infrastructure, any disruptions that potentially would require some response? [23:49:57] But in 2009, the federal government didn't even have a coherent plan across all the agencies. That's one of the things that President Obama directed. That's something that has been carried through in the next administration. That has resulted, I think, in not only the federal government having a unified plan, but a lot of these organizations that could be impacted by space weather. The awareness is much higher. There is more frequent communication between the Space Weather Prediction Center, which is the National Hurricane Center for Space Weather Events. And that I -- my hope is that what we're seeing is those mitigation effects are working and we're at a level we haven't been before. And again, this is a G5. It's a very significant event. But every G5 is going to be a little different. And as Jen said, we're going to see, as this goes through the weekend, how systems are performing. And more importantly, are we seeing and learning anything that we could do differently next time? PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, to that point, every G5 -- I'm sort of astounded as we've been talking to all these experts. You know, a G5 could be, you know, like a tidal wave or it could be a tsunami. It could be either of those things, which is a huge, huge range. I wonder, Dr. Meehan, when you at the federal level are looking at building resiliency, I mean, what did it look like? Did you go back to that major event in the 1980s that kind of shut parts of the Canadian grid down for a bit? And you just studied that like a hawk. I mean, was that sort of the point of reference? Did you go all the way back to the Carrington effect? I mean, how much are you studying these past events? MEEHAN: That is such a great question. And we call these benchmark events, right? And so, we took as many benchmark events that we have seen in modern history that we have record of, and we did studies and saying, well, how big is big? And so, we did this a few years ago. We're actually going through a process now to revisit those benchmarks to say, okay, well, we've seen the Carrington, we've seen the Halloween storm, we've seen the Hydro Quebec storm of the late 80s taking out part of the grid, but really, is that as big and powerful as it gets or are we missing something? And so, the best way to do it is to take what we've seen before and then just maybe take it a little bit higher to say, okay, well, we could build our systems, withstand these impacts, but what about a little more resilience, just in case that we haven't truly experienced the biggest storms the sun has unleashed on us yet? WEIR: Yeah. Well, I cover the climate and energy beat. So, this is a rare chance to point out the fact that there is more renewable energy waiting online to get on the grid that is already on the grid that exists right now. So, the national grid needs help in a lot of different ways, resiliency, electrification as we decarbonize in the wake of the climate crisis. But at least we're paying attention to our role in the universe on nights like this and thinking about these connections a little bit more. Craig Fugate, Dr. Jenny Meehan, thank you both so much. We appreciate it. Let's bring in Chad Myers in the Space Weather Center tonight in Atlanta. What can we expect in the next couple hours, Chad? MYERS: Well, we're waiting for the arrival of the very next CME. We know it's not that far away. It's probably an hour plus or minus 30 minutes. So, if you're outside like my friend is in Denver not seeing anything, just wait a minute because things are going to start to ramp up here. All the red, you're going to see it, except if you're under these clouds. The clouds are a problem today. But this is not an eclipse. This will happen for the next probably three nights in a row. So, if you miss it today, that's okay because we've had more than one, what we call coronal mass ejections. This big plasma that has been thrown at the Earth. And we have more than one. This right here in the middle, that's the sun. Even though it's blocked out by the satellite here and by the picture here, you would notice the sun under there if I took it off, but then everything else would be completely blown out, you wouldn't be able to see anything. But you see these waves, kind of little smoky waves coming out. That's how we know that these ejections are coming toward Earth in the first place. Now, if you think about it, the sun, the big round ball, the Earth way out here, think about how many other directions these coronal mass ejections go every single day, usually, especially in a solar maximum, and we don't even notice them. But we're only caring about this one because it's headed right toward us. This is the big event for us. And I think probably somewhere plus or minus 12:30 is when we'll start to see that. If you want to go to spaceweather.com, you can go to spaceweather.com, great website, look for a little thing in the left, top left, and it says "DSCOVR." It's D-S-C-O-V-R, acronym, you know. If you take a look at that, you click on that. You can actually see the top line up here. This is what I've been showing you all day. When these two lines start to go crazy, that's a 30-minute warning because this satellite here is one million miles away, and the solar wind is going 1.6 million miles per hour. Wrap your head around that. PHILLIP: Are you asking us to do some math here, Chad? MYERS: No, no, no. There's no math. [23:55:00] (LAUGHTER) This is not the new math. But we have -- that's -- that's going to be your 30-minute window. When these things start to go crazy again, like they did here, see, this was all day long, until 12:30, nothing happened, then all of a sudden, boy, the atmosphere shook and it's still shaking right now. But it's going to shake again as soon as that next CME. That's going to arrive any time now, really. When that comes, get outside, get ready, put your coat on if you to. PHILLIP: Yeah. MYERS: That's a 30-minute warning. PHILLIP: All right, guys, you got your 30-minute warning from Chad Myers and from us. WEIR: Yeah. PHILLIP: Soon. Chad, thank you very much. MYERS: You bet. Good night. PHILLIP: And for you at home, go outside, go see something. You might -- you might be surprised, what you can see in most of the country right now. WEIR: Wake up the kids. PHILLIP: We have been seeing so many incredible images coming from those of you at home. Thank you so much for watching this special edition of "NewsNight" and for monitoring this extreme solar storm with us. I'm Abby Phillip. WEIR: And I'm Bill Weir. CNN's coverage of the extreme solar storm continues right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [00:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)