CAPTIONS BY FAITH HAMBLYN AND MAEVE KELLY. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2024. KIA ORA. GOOD AFTERNOON, AND WELCOME TO THIS NEWSHUB SPECIAL WITH LIVE COVERAGE OF BUDGET '24. FINANCE MINISTER NICOLA WILLIS WILL VERY SOON DELIVER HER FIRST BUDGET IN PARLIAMENT. REBECCA WRIGHT WILL BE BRINGING US THE VERY FIRST DETAILS FROM THE BUDGET LIVE FROM PARLIAMENT. THAT'S RIGHT, SIMON. AND IN THE NEXT HOUR, I'LL BE SPEAKING WITH NICOLA WILLIS AND GETTING REACTION FROM OTHER POLITICAL LEADERS TO WHAT SHE HAS DELIVERED. JUST MOMENTS AGO, FINANCE MINISTER NICOLA WILLIS CROSSED WHAT THEY CALL THE BRIDGE AT PARLIAMENT, FLANKED BY SENIOR FIGURES OF THE COALITION GOVERNMENT ` TOGETHER HEADING INTO THE HOUSE, WHERE SHE WILL BE MAKING HER FIRST BUDGET SPEECH. THIS BUDGET ARRIVES TO THE SOUNDTRACK OF PROTEST. THOUSANDS OF MAORI HAVE JOINED HIKOI ACROSS THE COUNTRY TODAY IN A 'DAY OF ACTION' IN RESPONSE TO WHAT ORGANISERS CLAIM IS A 'GOVERNMENT ASSAULT ON TANGATA WHENUA AND TE TIRITI O WAITANGI'. AT MIDDAY, A HIKOI HEADED TO PARLIAMENT, WHERE PROTESTORS ARE GATHERED ON THE FORECOURT. (CAR HORNS HONK) (CHEERING) IN AUCKLAND, AOTEA SQUARE WAS PACKED, AND THERE WAS A LARGE TURN-OUT IN ROTORUA AND CHRISTCHURCH TOO. TE PATI MAORI HAS SUPPORTED THE DAY OF ACTION, AND WE WILL BE HEARING FROM THEM A LITTLE LATER TOO. LIKE ANY BUDGET, THE DEVIL IS ALWAYS IN THE DETAIL, AND HERE WITH ME IN THE STUDIO THIS AFTERNOON TO DIG INTO THE DETAIL IS WESTPAC CHIEF ECONOMIST KELLY ECKHOLD, NZME HEAD OF BUSINESS FRAN O'SULLIVAN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR BRIGITTE MORTEN AND COMMUNITY ADVOCATE DAVE LETELE. WELCOME TO YOU ALL. WE WILL BE TALKING TO YOU LATER ON ONCE WE KNOW WHAT IS COMING OUR WAY. IT'S JUST GONE 2 O'CLOCK, AND REBECCA WRIGHT IS WITH US TO TELL US WHAT'S REALLY IN THE BUDGET. REBECCA, WHAT HAS NICOLA WILLIS DELIVERED? WELL, SIMON, AFTER TWO YEARS OF TALKING ABOUT THEM, SHE'S FINALLY DELIVERED TAX CUTS, AND THEY LOOK LIKE THE ONES ADVERTISED DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. SO, FROM 31 JULY, HOUSEHOLDS WITH CHILDREN ON AVERAGE WILL BENEFIT BY ABOUT $39 A WEEK, OR $20 PER WORKING ADULT. 1.9 MILLION HOUSEHOLDS WILL GET AROUND $30 A WEEK, OR $15 EACH WORKING ADULT. MORE THAN 3.5 MILLION NZERS ON AVERAGE WILL GET AROUND $16 A WEEK. FAMILIES WITH PRE-SCHOOLERS STAND TO BENEFIT TOO FROM THE GOVERNMENTS FAMILY BOOST PROGRAMME, WHICH OFFERS REBATES ON ECE FEES ` UP TO A MAXIMUM OF $75 PER WEEK FOR FAMILIES EARNING UNDER $180,000. SO THE TAX CUTS ARE HERE, THEY ARE MODEST, AND KIWIS WILL BE ABLE TO DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WHETHER THEY'RE MEANINGFUL IN THIS ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT. NO NEW BIG SPENDING BONFIRES THAT WE CAN SEE ` JUST A SERIES OF SMALL ONES IN THE BACK OFFICE. THE GOVERNMENT IS PAYING FOR THEIR TAX CUTS WITH A RANGE OF SAVINGS, REDUCING THE PUBLIC SERVICE, AND, IT SEEMS, A DESIRE TO INCREASE REVENUE WITH INCREASED FUNDING FOR TAX AUDITS AND OVERSIGHT WORK, WHICH DEFINITELY HAS A WHIFF OF WINSTON PETERS ABOUT IT. ONE CAMPAIGN PROMISE THE GOVERNMENT HASN'T DELIVERED ON TODAY IS FUNDING FOR 13 LIFESAVING CANCER DRUGS. THERE IS NO NEW FUNDING FOR THOSE MEDICINES IN THIS BUDGET, SO THAT WILL BE INCREDIBLY DISAPPOINTING FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED THAT SUPPORT OUT THERE. AND JUST SOME INTERESTING NUMBERS HERE TO FINISH, TREASURY IS FORECASTING FOR THE ECONOMY TO PICK UP LATER THIS YEAR, INFLATION TO BE BACK IN THE 1%-3% RANGE AND INTEREST RATES TO EASE AROUND THE SAME TIME, SO SOME LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL FOR KIWIS THERE. AND ONE I KNOW THE PANEL WILL BE INTERESTED IN ` NICOLA WILLIS HAS LOWERED FUTURE OPERATING ALLOWANCES, AND SHE PLANS TO BE BACK IN SURPLUS BY 2027. SO A LOT TO GET THROUGH, AND PLENTY MORE DETAIL FOR YOU AND THE PANEL TO GET INTO, SIMON. WE HAVE BEEN HANDED WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN THE LOCK-UP. WELL, THE ONE THING THAT WILL IMPACT THE BANK ACCOUNTS OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF KIWI EARNERS ARE THOSE TAX CUTS. LET'S LOOK AT THE DETAILS NOW. ARE THERE ANY SURPRISES POLITICALLY FROM THOSE TAX CUTS? THE FACT THAT IT IS HAPPENING IN LATE JULY. THERE WAS MOVEMENT AROUND POSSIBLY THAT WOULD HAPPEN OVER A SUCCESSIVE YEARS, BECAUSE OF WHERE WE WERE WITH THE CURRENT BUDGET. THAT IS POSSIBLY THE SURPRISE, BUT A VERY WELCOME SURPRISE WITH FAMILIES. DAVE, WILL IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE AVERAGE EARNER? NO. I FEEL LIKE AN IMPOSTER BEING HERE. I AM NOT AN ECONOMIST. I AM NOT AN EXPERT. I AM ON THE GROUND, AND I AM AN EXPERT ON THE STRUGGLE THAT OUR COMMUNITIES ARE GOING THROUGH. I WENT TO A HOUSE THE OTHER DAY AT SCHOOL HOLIDAYS WITH FIVE CHILDREN. THEY HAD HALF A DOG ROLE AND A STAKE AND WEET-BIX. THAT'S ALL THEY HAD. WE WILL GET BACK TO THOSE KINDS OF DETAILS LATER ON. WE CAN SEE THAT NICOLA WILLIS IS IN THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW. SHE IS HANDING OUT THE BUDGET. THE PETITIONS TO THE HOUSE AND THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE POSITION. THEY ALL GET A COPY OF IT. WHILE SHE IS DOING THAT, KELLY, WE HAVE TO START DIGESTING EVERYTHING, BUT INFLATION FORECASTS HAVE BEEN TARGETED TO THE END OF THE YEAR. NO SURPRISE, I AM GUESSING. THAT IS A CONSENSUS VIEW RIGHT NOW. BY THE END OF THE YEAR, IT IS DANGLING ON A KNIFE EDGE. OUR OWN FORECAST SAY THAT INFLATION WILL BE 2.9% AT THE END OF THIS YEAR, AS DOES THE RESERVE BANKS. ARE DECENT GUST OF WIND CAN TURN THAT IN TO 3%. FRAN, YOU WERE CALLING FOR AN ECONOMIC RATIONAL BUDGET, THAT WAS YOUR PHRASE. WHAT YOU THINK? SHE IS REDUCING OPERATIONAL SPEND. DOESN'T HAVE THE FLAVOUR THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR? I THINK IT COULD GO FURTHER,M AND THAT MIGHT BE THE NEXT BUDGET. STILL WANTING TO GET BACK TO SURPLUS. ARE PLEDGING TO RETURN TO SURPLUS. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT THEY SPEED THINGS ALONG BY HAVING TWO MAJOR ASSET SALES. WE WILL GET BACK TO THAT. THE SPEAKER JERRY BROWNLEE IS INTRODUCING THE FINANCE MINISTER. SHE WILL GET TO HER FEET FOR HER FIRST BUDGET RESPLENDENT IN BLUE. THEY ARE DOING A VOTE IN THE HOUSE. ACT. 11 VOTES IN FAVOUR. NEW ZEALAND FIRST. EIGHT VOTES IN FAVOUR. TE PATI MAORI. AREN'T EVEN IN THE HOUSE. NICOLA WILLIS IS GOING TO STAND AND DELIVER HER FIRST BUDGET AFTER JERRY BROWNLEE. THE MOTION AS AGREED. APPROPRIATION 2024 BILL FIRST READING. THE APPROPRIATION BILL IS SET DOWN FOR SECOND READING IMMEDIATELY. MR SPEAKER, I MOVE THAT THE APPROPRIATION 2024 25 ESTIMATES BILL BE READ A SECOND TIME. TENA KOUTOU. (SPEAKS TE REO MAORI) KIA ORA. (SPEAKS TE REO MAORI) AS I SAID IN MAORI, IT IS AN HONOUR TO ANNOUNCE THE BUDGET. THE BUDGET DELIVERS ON KEY COMMITMENTS. FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 14 YEARS, HARD-WORKING NEW ZEALANDERS WILL GET TO KEEP MORE OF THEIR OWN MONEY THROUGH OUR GOVERNMENTS TAX RELIEF. WE ARE SHIFTING RESOURCES OUT OF THE BACK OFFICE OF GOVERNMENT AND INTO THE FRONT LINE. WE ARE INVESTING IN HEALTHCARE, IN SCHOOLS AND POLICE. WE ARE PUTTING NEW ZEALANDERS MONEY WHERE IT CAN MAKE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE. ONCE MORE, OUR COMMITMENTS ARE DELIVERED WITHIN AN OPERATING ALLOWANCE THAT IS THE LOWEST IN REAL TERMS SINCE STEPHEN JOYCE IS BUDGET IN 2017. IN OTHER WORDS, THIS IS A FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE BUDGET, THE MOST FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE AND SEVEN YEARS. MR SPEAKER, ON BUDGET DAY, IT IS EASY TO GET CAUGHT UP IN THE ANALYSIS, THE COMMENTARY AND THE VOICES IN THE LOBBY. ACTUALLY, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE BUDGET IS ABOUT. THIS BUDGET IS FOR EVERYDAY PEOPLE GETTING ON WITH THEIR LIVES. THE MUMS AND DADS RUSHING THE KIDS TO DAYCARE OR KOHANGA, WORKING HARD, WAITING IN TRAFFIC AND WATCHING THE PETROL LIGHT FLASH AGAIN. THIS BUDGET IS FOR THE PEOPLE WHOSE DOORS I KNOCKED ON IN THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN, WHO SAID $20 A WEEK WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STAYING ON TOP OF THE BILLS AND BEING AN OVERDRAFT. IT IS FOR THE MAN WHO TOLD ME HE PICKED UP A SECOND JOB DRIVING AND UBER TO PAY THE RENT. IT IS FOR EVERY NEW ZEALANDER FROM EVERY WALK OF LIFE WHO GIVES THE BEST AND ONCE A FAIR DEAL . AND RETURN IT IS FOR THE SQUEEZED MIDDLE OF NEW ZEALAND, THE SHIFT WORKERS, THE PEOPLE WORKING TWO JOBS, THE FAMILIES MAKING SACRIFICES FOR THEIR KIDS. PARLIAMENTS FOCUSED TODAY AND EVERY DAY SHOULD BE THE RESULTS WE DELIVER FOR PEOPLE LIKE THEM. BECAUSE THE RIGHT MEASURE OF SUCCESS IS WHETHER GOVERNMENT IS MAKING A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE TO LIVES OF NEW ZEALANDERS AND THEIR FAMILIES, NOT HOW MANY TIMES IT CLAIMS TO CARE AND NOT HOW MUCH MONEY IT SPENDS. MR SPEAKER, THE CREATION AND PASSAGE OF A BUDGET EACH YEAR IS AT THE HEART OF STABLE GOVERNMENT. THIS BUDGET IS A TEAM EFFORT. IN PARTICULAR, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND THANK THE ASSOCIATE MINISTERS OF FINANCE, DAVID SEYMOUR, SHANE JONES AND CHRIS BISHOP, WHO WERE HEAVILY INVOLVED IN PUTTING THIS BUDGET TOGETHER. IT HAS BENEFITED CONSIDERABLY FROM THE IDEAS, ADVICE AND INPUT. THE OTHER BUDGET MINISTER IN THIS PROCESS WAS THE PRIME MINISTER. I AM GRATEFUL FOR HIS LEADERSHIP, SUPPORT AND WISE COUNSEL AS ALWAYS. MR SPEAKER, I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE HOW CHALLENGING ECONOMIC CONDITIONS ARE FOR MANY KIWIS RIGHT NOW. NEW ZEALANDERS EXPERIENCING A VERY DIFFICULT DOWN TO. IT SUFFERED AN ACUTE COST OF LIVING CRISIS IN 2022 AND 2023. THE RESERVE BANK RESPONDED BY RAISING INTEREST RATES. THE OFFICIAL CASH RATE WENT FROM 0.25% TO 5 1/2% AND HAS REMAINED THERE FOR A YEAR. THAT HURTS. I GET REGULAR UPDATES FROM THE TREASURY ABOUT THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY. AND WHAT IS APPARENT NOW COMPARED TO 6 MONTHS AGO IS THAT THE CURRENT DOWN TURN STARTED EARLIER, HAS BEEN DEEPER AND IS EXPECTED TO LAST FOR LONGER THAN PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT. IN THIS ENVIRONMENT, I FEEL FOR FAMILIES AND BUSINESSES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHO ARE DOING A TOUGH. WHAT I CAN SAY TO THEM IS THAT BETTER TIMES LIE AHEAD. THE ECONOMY IS ROBUST, AND IT WILL RECOVER. FORECAST FOR IN THE BUDGET UP DATE SAY THE CURRENT WEAKNESS IN THE ECONOMY WILL LEAD TO A GRADUAL EASING OF INTEREST RATES. RATE THE TREASURY XX THE EMPLOYMENT RATE TO PEAK AT THE END OF 2024 AND STARTED 2025 BEFORE BEGINNING TO FALL. AS INTEREST RATES EASE, INTEREST GROWTH IS FORECAST TO PICK UP AND CONTINUE INTO 2025. THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB IS TO HELP THAT RECOVERY, NOT HINDER IT. IN RECENT YEARS, BIG GOVERNMENT SPENDING HAS FUELLED INFLATION. IT HAS ALSO CAUSED A SIGNIFICANT DETERIORATION IN NEW ZEALAND'S FISCAL POSITION. THE OPERATING BALANCE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOVERNMENT REVENUE AND SPENDING BEFORE GAINS AND LOSSES, LOSSE HAS BEEN IN DEFICIT SINCE 2019, 2020. THIS IS A RESULT OF CONTINUED SPENDING INCREASES. SOME OF THESE INCREASES WERE TEMPORARY, AND RESPONSE TO COVER 19, BUT OTHERS WERE NOT. AFTER STRIPPING OUT LARGE ONE-OFF EXPENSES AND ADJUSTING FOR THE ECONOMIC CYCLE, THE TREASURY ESTIMATES STRUCTURAL OPERATING DEFICIT OF AROUND 1.5% OF GDP THIS FINANCIAL YEAR. STRUCTURAL DEFICIT IS A TECHNICAL TERM. TO PUT IT LESS FORMALLY, NEW ZEALAND HAS BEEN BORROWING TO PAY FOR THE GROCERIES. IN THIS BORROWING HAS CONTRIBUTED TO RAPIDLY RISING DEBT. 2017, 2018 DEBT WAS UNDER 20% OF GDP. IT IS NOW OVER 43% OF GDP. THE SOLUTION IS CLEAR. REVENUE AND EXPENSES MUST BE BROUGHT BACK INTO BALANCE. DEBT MUST COME DOWN. THIS TASK IS CHALLENGING. IT HAS BECOME EVEN MORE CHALLENGING AS THE ECONOMIC FORECASTS HAVE DETERIORATED. COMPARED TO THE HALF-YEAR UPDATE, THE BUDGET UPDATE EXPECTS CORE CROWN TAX REVENUE TO BE LOWER BY AROUND 18 1/2 EARLY IN ACROSS THE FORECAST PERIOD AS A RESULT OF LOWER GDP AND LOWER BUSINESS INCOME TAX. THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT REVENUE DOWNGRADE, LEADING TO A LOWER OPERATING BALANCE AND HIGHER DEBT. TO BRING REVENUE AND EXPENSES BACK INTO BALANCE, THE GOVERNMENT HAS A CHOICE. THAT CAN MANAGE ITS SPENDING OR IT CAN RAISE ADDITIONAL REVENUE. GIVEN THAT CHOICE, THIS GOVERNMENT'S FOCUS IS SQUARELY ON MANAGING SPENDING. THE KEY TOP DOWN TOOL FOR THIS IS OPERATING IN ANSWERS. THAT IS THE AMOUNT SET ASIDE FOR DISCRETIONARY SPENDING IN EACH BUDGET. WE ARE SITTING TIGHT, BUT REALISTIC OPERATING ALLOWANCES THIS BUDGET AND IN FUTURE BUDGETS. AND WE INTEND TO STICK TO THEM. THE FINAL OPERATING ALLOWANCE I SAID WOULD BE LESS THAN $3.5BN, WHICH WAS THE ALLOWANCE SET BY THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT. THE FINAL ALLOWANCE IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET IS IN FACT $3.2BN. THIS IS THE LOWEST ALLOWANCE IN A NOMINAL TERMS SINCE BUDGET 2018 AND THE LOWEST IN REAL TERMS, ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION, SINCE BUDGET 2017. OPERATING ALLOWANCES FOR 2025 TO 2027 WILL BE EVEN LOWER, AT 2.4 BILLION PER BUDGET. CONSIDERABLY LOWER THAN THE ALLOWANCE IS PRESENTED IN THE HALF-YEAR UPDATE SET BY THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT; THEY ARE LOWER THAN THOSE SET OUT IN NATIONAL'S FISCAL PLAN. BY COMPARISON, THE FINAL OPERATING ALLOWANCES FOR THE LAST TWO LABOUR BUDGETS WERE 5.9BN AND 4.8BN IN 2023. THAT WAS NICOLA WILLIS LIVE PRESENTING HER FIRST EVER BUDGET AND PARLIAMENT, WHERE SHE OF COURSE HAD TO USE THE PHRASE ' THIS IS FOR THE SQUEEZED MIDDLE', TALKING ABOUT HOW IT IS A VERY CHALLENGING DOWNTURN AND WILL BE A DEEPER AND LONGER CHALLENGE. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT SOME OF THE KEY POINTS FROM THE BUDGET. IF WE LOOK AT THIS, YOU CAN SEE NEW TAX THRESHOLDS FROM JULY 31, PUSHING IT OUT A BIT. 1.2BN FOR THE NEW REGIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE FUND. I AM GUESSING THAT IS THE NEW ZEALAND FIRST PROVINCIAL GROWTH FUND 2.0 OR 'LITE'. LET'S HAVE A QUICK CHAT TO OUR PANEL ABOUT WHAT THEY THINK AT THE TOP LINE. KELLY, EARLY DAYS IN TERMS OF THE NUMBERS, BUT HOW DO YOU FEEL THE SPENDING IS? I THINK THIS IS COMING ACROSS AS A LITTLE BIT MORE EXPANSIONARY THAN WAS EXPECTED, AND CERTAINLY MORE THAN THE GOVERNMENT WHEN THEY UPDATED US AT THE END OF LAST YEAR. YOU CAN CERTAINLY SEE THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS A BIT UNDER THE GUN WITH RESPECT TO REVENUE AND AS A RESULT, IN THE SHORT TERM AT LEAST, THEY NEED TO BORROW A BIT MORE, AND AS A RESULT, THERE IS A LITTLE BIT MORE... COMING INTO THE ECONOMY. FRAN? I THINK A LITTLE BIT MORE STIMULUS IS PROBABLY A GOOD THING. IF YOU WALK AROUND TOWN, THINGS ARE REALLY TOUGH. BUSINESSES ARE SHUTTING UP. IT IS NOT JUST PUBLIC SERVICE LOSING NUMBERS; THERE NEEDS TO BE A BIT OF HOPE IN THE ECONOMY AND A SENSE THAT THERE WILL BE MOVEMENT. I THINK SHE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB OF A HOUSEWIFE JOB OF BALANCING THE BUDGET. I AM SURE SHE WOULD APPRECIATE THAT (!) I'M SURE SHE WILL. THE KIDS ARE THERE. WOMEN CAN RELATE TO THAT. AT THE SAME TIME, YOU HAVE TO GIVE A BIT OF HOPE TO THE ECONOMY. LET'S GO BACK NOW LIVE TO PARLIAMENT, WHERE REBECCA IS STANDING BY WITH LABOUR'S FINANCE SPOKESPERSON, BARBARA EDMONDS. WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THIS WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THIS BUDGET? THE BACKWARDS BUDGET. I AM ASTOUNDED BY THE NUMBERS WE HAVE. THE GOVERNMENT HAS PROVIDED $10M AN TAX CUTS, BUT THEY HAVE TO BORROW %12BN IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THEM. THEY NEED TO BORROW $12BN. NICOLA WILLIS SAYS SHE HAS KEPT HER PROMISE BY DELIVERING THOSE TAX CUTS, AND SHE HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO STAND BY THAT. BECAUSE SHE PUT HER JOB ON THE LINE FOR IT. THE UNFORTUNATE THING IS THAT FOR A LOW WAGE INCOME EARNER THIS IS ABOUT $0.30 PER HOUR FOR THEM. IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THEY HAVE REMOVED, SUCH AS PUBLIC TRANSPORT COSTS, THAT WILL COST AN AVERAGE FAMILY ABOUT $40 A WEEK AND THEY WILL ONLY GET POSSIBLY THIS TAX CUT IN HAND. ALSO LOOKING AT AROUND 27,000 PEOPLE LOSING THEIR JOBS. THAT IS THE UNEMPLOYMENT FIGURES. IT IS QUITE GRIM READING AND I AM ASTOUNDED BY IT. DO YOU AGREE THAT KIWIS NEED TO TAX RELIEF AT THE MOMENT WAS TO MARK WE HAVE BEEN IN A COST-OF-LIVING CRISIS FOR THREE YEARS WITH HIGH INFLATION. IF THERE IS ANY TIME TO DELIVER, ISN'T IT NOW? BUT TAX CUTS CAN BE INFLATIONARY. THE MAIN THING YOU LOOK AT FROM A TAX PERSPECTIVE IS TAX TRANSFERS. YOU TARGET THE RELIEF TO THOSE THAT REALLY NEED IT. WHAT I HAVE SEEN FROM THIS BUDGET AS IT IS QUITE A BLANKET TAX CUT AND NOT RESPONSIBLE. THEY HAVE OUTLINED SAVINGS IN 240 DIFFERENT AREAS. WE DIDN'T IDENTIFY ANY NEW BIG BONFIRES TODAY THEY ARE SETTING LIGHT TO. IS THERE ANYTHING YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED? 400K FOR VICTIMS COUNSELLING HAS BEEN REMOVED. I ALSO KNOW THEY HAVE REMOVED TOURISM MARKETING FUNDING. AND YET OF THE BUDGET DEPENDS ON TOURISM BEING ONE OF OUR MOST PRODUCTIVE PARTS OF THE ECONOMY. THEY ARE TAKING WITH ONE HAND, SAYING BASICALLY WE NEED TOURISM BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO MARKET IT. PLUS AN INCREASE IN THE INTERNATIONAL VISITOR LEVY. I SAW THAT AS WELL. PUTTING MONEY INTO A BOOST FOR TAX AUDITS AND OVERSIGHT. SOMETHING YOU WOULD KNOW ABOUT. DO YOU THINK THAT WILL RAISE REVENUE? THEY ARE TRYING TO GO AFTER PEOPLE TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PAYING THE TAX. THAT IS BASICALLY WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO, THE AUDIT. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY WILL RECEIVE THE AMOUNT THEY FORECAST. THE OTHER THING I WANT TO WENT OUT IS THAT THEY ARE NOT PUTTING IN MORE MONEY FOR HEALTH THAN WHAT IS NEEDED. LAST WEEK IN THE HEALTH SELECT COMMITTEE, THE MINISTRY OF SAID THEY WOULD NEED MORE THAN WHAT IS CURRENTLY BEING BUDGETED FOR TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON, AND THEY HAVE NOT INCREASED AT ENOUGH. THAT BRINGS ME TO 1 OF THE LOSERS TODAY WHICH IS THAT NATIONAL HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO KEEP ITS PROMISE TO FUND THE NEW CANCER DRUGS. THOSE FAMILIES WHO ARE OUT THERE FUNDING THEIR OWN TREATMENTS WILL HAVE TO BATTLE ON. I KNOW THIS IS A SITUATION YOU KNOW WELL. WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO THOSE PEOPLE? MY HEART GOES OUT TO THEM. A LOT OF THEM BASICALLY WERE PROMISED` THIS IS LIFE AND DEATH FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND THEY WERE PROMISED THEY WOULD GET THE DRUGS. THEY LISTENED TO THE NATIONAL PARTY, AND WHAT THE NATIONAL PARTY HAS DONE IS REMOVE THAT HOPE. I WANT THEM TO BASICALLY NO THAT THEY NEED TO DEPEND ON THEIR FAMILY, LOOK AFTER THEMSELVES, AND WE WILL KEEP FIGHTING AND HOLDING DISCOVERED TO ACCOUNT. ABSOLUTELY. AND YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. BARBARA EDMONDS. WELL, THE ONE THING THAT WILL IMPACT THE BANK ACCOUNTS OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF KIWI EARNERS ARE THOSE TAX CUTS. LET'S LOOK AT THE DETAILS NOW. THIS IS HOW IT ROLLS OUT. THE NEW TAX THRESHOLD CHANGES. SO... LET'S LOOK AT THESE. THERE WAS THE CONCERN THAT TAX THRESHOLD CHANGES WOULD BE INFLATIONARY. WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THAT? I THINK IN TERMS OF THE TAX CUT PACKAGE, IT IS BASICALLY AS ADVERTISED THROUGH THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. SO WE'RE PRETTY MUCH GOT WHAT THEY SAID THEY WANTED TO DELIVER. THE CHALLENGE WITH THE ACCOUNTS HERE IS THAT THE ECONOMY IS UNDERPERFORMING. AS A RESULT, THERE IS LESS REVENUE TO PAY FOR IT. THEY HAVE OBVIOUSLY CUT HARD IN TERMS OF TRYING TO FIND SOME ROOM IN THE BUDGET TO FINANCE THESE THINGS, BUT THEY HAVE COME UP A BIT SHORTER THAN THEY WERE THINKING. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CUTS SOON. DAVE, YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS WOULDN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. YOU HAVE SEEN THE DETAILS. THE PEOPLE YOU ARE REFERENCING EARLIER ` NOTHING IN IT FOR THEM? NOTHING AT ALL. WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEM, MINIMUM WAGE EARNER ` 12.50 A WEEK, IT IS NOTHING. $0.30 AN HOUR. I JUST DON'T KNOW... WHY WE HAVE TO BE SO FAR RIGHT ALSO FAR LEFT. WHY CAN'T WE CELEBRATE MAKING MONEY, BEING SUCCESSFUL, CELEBRATED AND ENCOURAGE BUT ALSO NOT FORGET TO HELP THE LESS FORTUNATE? PEOPLE AND FAMILIES OUT THERE ARE STRUGGLING AND LOOKING AT THEIR CHILDREN AND STARVING. IT IS NO ACCIDENT TO ME THERE IS A HUGE INCREASE IN CRIME AND IN POOR DESPERATE PEOPLE. WE TALK ABOUT THE SQUEEZED MIDDLE ` MORE AND MORE ARE BEING SQUEEZED DOWN, BEGGING FOR FOOD, BEING LAID OFF. IT IS A STRUGGLE FOR SO MANY, AND IT IS NOT JUST MAORI. BRIGITTE, THIS IS WHAT THEY SAID THEY WOULD DO. SO POLITICALLY, SHE KEEPS HER JOB? ABSOLUTELY. I ALSO THINK YOU CAN SEE VERY CLEARLY THEY HAVE LISTENED TO THE ELECTORATE. OVER THE LAST 18 MONTHS WE HAVE CLEARLY SEEN THAT PEOPLE WERE SICK OF THE GOVERNMENT SPENDING LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY FOR NO DISCERNIBLE INCREASE IN SERVICES OR INCREASE IN OUTCOMES FOR ANYONE ACROSS THE SPECTRUM. SO WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS A REALLY` TAKING THE MONEY BACK AND GIVING IT TO PEOPLE'S BACK POCKETS. IT MIGHT BE SMALL AMOUNTS, AND ABSOLUTELY THAT IS A CONCERN FOR MANY, BUT IT HAS PROBABLY BETTER THAN IT BEING SPENT ON SOME BACK OFFICE REPORT IN A PUBLIC SERVICE DEPARTMENT THAT PEOPLE DON'T SEE RESULTS FROM. A LOT MORE TO TALK ABOUT THERE. WE ARE GOING TO GO STRAIGHT BACK TO PARLIAMENT. REBECCA WRIGHT IS STANDING BY AT PARLIAMENT WITH DAVID SEYMOUR. THIS IS YOUR FIRST GOVERNMENT ON THE BENCHES. DO THE TAX CUT GO FAR ENOUGH? THEY CANNOT GO FURTHER THAN SPENDING CUTS. IF YOU LOOK AT HOW MUCH IS BEING REDUCED, IT IS ALMOST EXACTLY AS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SAVE BY DOING THINGS BETTER AND SMARTER AND STOPPING THE THINGS WE DIDN'T BELIEVE IN. THEY HAVE GONE AS FAR AS THEY CAN. WE ARE LOOKING AT ABOUT 3.68BN OF TAX CUTS BUT 3.71 OF SAVINGS. WHEN I AM LOOKING AT IS TAX CUTS, I AM SEEING 25 DOWN TO 4 DOLLARS A WEEK. IT DOESN'T SEEM` DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH PHILOSOPHICALLY? PUTTING PHILOSOPHY ASIDE FOR A MINUTE, YES, ACT OBVIOUSLY WOULD ALWAYS LIKE TO GO FURTHER, AND I THINK IT IS FAIR TO SAY THE BUDGET DOES NOT GO AS FAR AS WE WOULD, BUT IT HAS ALSO GONE FURTHER THAN IT WOULD WITHOUT US. AS FAR AS THOSE AMOUNTS OF MONEY, I THINK ONE OF THE THEMES OF THE BUDGET IS THAT STUFF IS TOUGH FOR EVERYBODY. I WAS TALKING TO AN ACCOUNTANT THE OTHER DAY. HE SAID HE USED TO HAVE A CLIENT UNTIL A FEW WEEKS AGO WHO HAD TO SELL HIS BED TO PAY THE WAGES FOR HIS THREE REMAINING STAFF. HE HAD 40, THEN THREE, NOW HE HAS SOLD HIS BED AND MOVED TO AUSTRALIA. THEY GIVE YOU A SENSE OF HOW HARD THINGS ARE FOR PEOPLE IN A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES. THERE ARE A LOT OF SMALL FIGURES HERE, A LOT OF TOUGH DECISIONS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS THE WAY OUR ECONOMY IS. AT LEAST NOW WE HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT IS ACTING IN CONCERT WITH THE ECONOMY, NOT JUST BORROWING AND BLOWING IT UP. THE TAX CHANGES WE HAVE SEEN IT, FOR THIS TERM? THERE WILL BE NO MORE CHANGES TO THE TAX SYSTEM THIS TERM? IT DEPENDS HOW MUCH YOU CAN SAY. YOU CAN'T CUT MORE THAN YOU SAFE, OTHERWISE YOU ARE JUST CREATING INFLATION AND ALL THE BAD STUFF. BUT THIS BUDGET IS A GOOD FOUNDATION FOR GROWTH. LOOKING AT THE SAVINGS THAT WERE FOUND ` I WAS PUT IN CHARGE OF FINDING SAVINGS IN MBIE. I WAS PUT IN CHARGE OF FREE SCHOOL LUNCHES, WHERE WE SAVED HUNDRED AND 4 MILLION PER YEAR. WE HAVE SHOWN HOW YOU CAN SAVE. I BELIEVE IF THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT INCREASED SPENDING BY ABOUT 80% TO GET BASICALLY THE SAME ALWAYS RESULTS, IMAGINE STARTING FROM THEIR HOW MUCH WE COULD SAVE BY DOING MORE WITH LESS. AND THE WORK WILL CONTINUE, BECAUSE IT CAN'T HAVE GONE FAR ENOUGH FOR YOU? YOU CAMPAIGNED ON GETTING RID OF WHOLE MINISTRIES. THIS WILL BE A ROLLING PROJECT. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THIS IS THE VALUE THAT WE ADD. WILL THE OTHER PARTIES GO AS FAR AS US? NO. IF THEY DID, THEY WOULD BE THE ACT PARTY. BUT I'LL BE MAKING SURE THAT FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF PEOPLE THAT SHARE OUR POINT OF VIEW. THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO TAKE A SMALLER SLICE. I THINK WE ARE PLAYING AN HONOURABLE ROLE IN HOW THE BUDGET IS STACKING UP. I WANT TO TALK ABOUT PROMISE THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT KEPT, WHICH I KNEW YOU WILL BE ASSOCIATED WITH, WHICH IS THE LIFE-SAVING CANCER DRUGS THAT WERE PROMISED DURING THE CAMPAIGN BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT BEEN DELIVERED TODAY. THAT WILL BE DISAPPOINTING TO THOSE PEOPLE. CAN YOU TELL US WHERE THAT IS? FIRST OF ALL, COULD I JUST ACKNOWLEDGE BECAUSE I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR PHARMAC, IN QUITE A NUMBER OF THOSE PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN TO ME AND I HAVE HAD TO WRITE BACK AND SAY SORRY THAT WE CAN'T DO THIS. BUT I ALSO WANT TO BE A BIT UPFRONT ABOUT WHY THAT IS. THE PHARMAC BUDGET THIS YEAR WE ARE SITTING IN IS ABOUT ONE 1.5BN, UNDERLAY WAS BUDGET IT WAS GOING TO BE 1.1BN. WE GOT ADVICE FROM PHARMAC SAYING THE QUESTIONS WILL BE, DO WE JUST TELL SOME PEOPLE THAT THERE IS NO MORE MEDICINES OR DO WE ACTUALLY START TAKING MEDICINES OFF THE COMBINED PHARMACEUTICAL LIST AND NO LONGER FUND THEIR METAL? THAT IS THE CHALLENGE WE FACE. WE HAD TO PUT 1.74BN INTO PHARMAC TO FILL THE HOLE. SO THE REASON THAT WE ARE IN A TIGHT SPOT WITH PHARMACEUTICALS... THE FACTORS WE WERE HAVING A DRINK WITH A LABOUR, AND THEY WALKED OUT WITHOUT PAYING THE $455 MILLION TAB ` THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE HAD TO DO WITH PHARMACEUTICALS. THIS IS NEWSHUB'S LIVE BUDGET '24 SPECIAL. NOT TOO FAR AWAY ` THE FINANCE MINISTER WILL BE JOINING US LIVE; BUT RIGHT AFTER THE BREAK, MORE REACTION FROM PARLIAMENT, AND WE CHECK IN ON THE PROTEST ACTION. BACK IN A MOMENT. WELCOME BACK TO NEWSHUB'S LIVE BUDGET '24 SPECIAL. THESE ARE LIVE PICTURES FROM THE FORECOURT OF PARLIAMENT, WHERE A PROTEST AS PART OF THE NATIONAL DAY OF ACTION FOR MAORI IS TAKING PLACE. WE WILL HEAR FROM TE PATI MAORI ABOUT THE PROTEST ACTION SHORTLY, AND NOT TOO FAR AWAY, THE FINANCE MINISTER WILL BE JOINING US LIVE. BUT IF YOU'RE JUST JOINING US, TAX CUTS ARE THE BIG TALKING POINT OF THE BUDGET, WITH THE FINANCE MINISTER SAYING IT WILL PUT $30 A FORTNIGHT. IN THE POCKETS OF MOST KIWI EARNERS. AMONG THE OTHER BIG ANNOUCEMENTS IS THE SPENDING ON HEALTH. LET'S TAKE A LOOK. OUTSIDE PARLIAMENT AND AROUND THE COUNTRY, THOUSAND OF MAORI HAVE BEEN MARCHING IN PROTEST AGAINST THE COALITION GOVERNMENT'S POLICIES. TE PATI MAORI CO-LEADER DEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER IS SUPPORTING THE DAY OF ACTION AND JOINS ME NOW FROM THE FORECOURT OF PARLIAMENT. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS BUDGET THAT YOU LIKE? IS THERE ANYTHING IN THIS BUDGET THAT YOU LIKE? NO. THAT IS A SHORT ANSWER. HAVE YOU BEEN THROUGH ALL THE DETAILS? BETWEEN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE MOTU, WE HAVE BEEN FED WHAT IS GOING ON. WE HAVE A BUDGET THAT SEEMS TO BE REMISS OF HAVING THE WORD MAORI. WE HAVE A HEALTH BUDGET THAT DOESN'T HAVE THE WORD MAORI. IT IS A BUDGET FOR THE PRIVILEGE. THE GOVERNMENT'S ARGUMENT IS TAX CUTS CAN HELP EVERYBODY. WE ARE SEEING A GOVERNMENT THAT IS IN DENIAL OF MODELS AND FRAMEWORKS THAT HAVE WORKED. WE LOOK AT THE SOCIAL RETURN ON INVESTMENT MODEL, WE LOOK AT THE WAY WE HAVE SEEN SUCCESS, WE SEE A GOVERNMENT DISMANTLING THINGS THAT HAVE TARGETED INVESTMENT, IT IS HARD TO SEE HOW THEY THINK THEIR BUDGET IS GOING TO WORK FOR MAORI WHEN THEY HAVE DISMANTLED EVERY FRAMEWORK. IT IS A BUDGET FOR THE PRIVILEGED. WE ARE NOT HAPPY WITH IT AT ALL. TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AROUND NEW ZEALAND FOR THE SAME. WE SAW THE DAY OF ACTION TODAY. IS IT A PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE? THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN TARGETED, THEY BELIEVE IN UNIVERSALITY? PHILOSOPHICALLY, HOW THEY THINK THE BEST FOR THEIR MONEY IS EASILY, LABOUR WEREN'T THAT MUCH DIFFERENT, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE SUCCESS MODELS, AND WHEN YOU HAVE MODELS THAT ARE ADDRESSING THE FACT THAT 20% OF THE POPULATION, WE NOW MAKE UP NEARLY A MILLION OF THE POPULATION. THAT SHOULD AT LEAST REFLECT THAT 20% OF THE POPULATION ADDRESSING IT, AND IT ISN'T. IT ISN'T JUST MAORI; IT IS ALL MARGINALISED COMMUNITIES. THE WAY THEY ARE TREATING THE CLIMATE, OUR ENVIRONMENT, RAINBOW AND DISABILITY. THIS IS A GOVERNMENT FOR THE GENTRY. WE KNEW THIS WAS A GOVERNMENT FOR THE GENTRY, AND THEY CONTINUE TO LOOK AFTER THE GENTRY. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN NEW ZEALAND, AND WE WILL SURVIVE THIS. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME FROM THE FORECOURT OF PARLIAMENT THERE. NATIONAL STAKES ITS REPUTATION ON ECONOMIC MANAGEMENT AND WANTS TO GET THE COUNTRY'S BOOKS BACK IN THE BLACK ` OR, AS LUXON MIGHT SAY, BACK ON TRACK ` AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. SO HOW ARE THINGS LOOK AFTER THEIR FIRST BUDGET? IN DECEMBER, THE FORECAST WAS A RETURN TO A WAFER-THIN SURPLUS IN THE '26/'27. THE WAFER HAS BEEN EATEN UP BY INFLATION, THE FIRST SURPLUS WILL BE A YEAR LATER. WE WILL HAVE A LOOK ON OUR SCREEN. WHAT YOU THINK OF THOSE FORECASTS? THEY ARE OPTIMISTIC IN THE SHORT TERM IN TERMS OF INFLATION. THE TREASURY IS TAKING THE VIEW THAT INFLATION IS GOING TO RECEIVE QUICKLY. THE RESERVE BANK MIGHT HAVE THE ROOM TO CUT RATES CLOSER TO THE MIDDLE OF NEXT YEAR, WHEREAS THEY WERE SUGGESTING SOMETHING MORE TOWARDS AUGUST NEXT YEAR. IS THAT TIMEFRAME BEEN FOUGHT FORWARD? THEY HAD A RELATIVELY OPTIMISTIC VIEW, AND THEY ARE RETAINING THAT YOU. I WANT TO CHECK IN ON GDP. THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO GET DEBT DOWN UNDER GDP. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PROJECTION ON THE STREAM, THAT IS WHAT HAS COME OUT. INTERPRET IT. IT IS STICKY. WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT? IF YOU LOOK AT THE END OF THE FORECAST, 2024 HAS GDP UP AT 41.8%. THAT IS NORTH OF THE NEW TARGET RANGE THE GOVERNMENT WOULD LIKE. THAT DOESN'T SURPRISE US AT ALL, GIVEN IT IS STILL A RELATIVELY WEAK FISCAL POSITION. IT IS GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME TO TURN AROUND, THE SUPERTANKER. I LIKE THAT TERM. THE BOOKS, GETTING BACK IN BLACK PORT ON TRACK. IS THAT TRACK EXTENDED? NOT AS MUCH AS IT COULD HAVE BEEN. THEY HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB. THEY HAVE SMASHED TOGETHER BOTH SIDES OF THE BALANCE SHEET, WHICH YOU HAVE TO DO IN THIS SITUATION. THINGS HAVE BEEN DETERIORATING. LEX TAX HAS BEEN COMING THROUGH. MORE DEBT WAS INHERITED. WHAT YOU DO? THERE IS STICKY ISSUES LIKE NOT DOING THE CANCER TREATMENT. I AM IN THE CAMP THAT SAYS GO AND SELL SHARES. SELL STUFF OFF. TARGET IT FOR SOMETHING WORTHWHILE. IF YOU GO BACK TO BILL ENGLISH AND JOHN KEY, WHEN THEY WERE FACED WITH MASSIVE ISSUES IN THE ECONOMY POSTAGE EFC, THEY DID THE LONG PROGRAM, PULLED MONEY AND USED IT INVEST IN OTHER ASSETS. YOU COULD INVEST IN HEALTH. CAN WE GO THROUGH THE ARGUMENT THAT THEY HAVE BORROWED FOR TAX CUTS? IT IS 12 BILLION. DOES THAT ARGUMENT STICK? IS IT FUNDING THE TAX CUTS? THE GOVERNMENT IS BORROWING FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. THAT IS THE BEST WAY OF THINKING ABOUT IT. THE GOVERNMENT'S PERSPECTIVE IS THAT THEY HAVE DONE SOME SPENDING CUTS TO SPEND ON TAX CUTS. IT IS A BALANCED BUDGET CONTRACTION; IT IS A REASONABLE CHARACTERISATION. THAT OPPOSITION ARGUMENT DOES HOLD WATER? YOU ARE BORROWING FOR EVERYTHING. THAT INCLUDES TAX CUTS. IF YOU WANT TO CONSOLIDATE FASTER, DON'T HAVE TAX CUTS, AND DEBT WOULD COME DOWN FASTER. WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO PARLIAMENT AND A SECOND. IT IS ALL ABOUT GETTING BACK IN BLACK. YOU SAW DEBBIE SAYING IT IS NOTHING FOR 1 MILLION OF THE POPULATION. OVERALL, THIS BUDGET HAS POOR PEOPLE GETTING THE LEAST. THE BIGGEST BENEFICIARIES ARE THE HIGH EARNERS. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT PENSIONERS, A PENSIONER COUPLE GET $4.30 A WEEK. IF YOU ARE A SINGLE ALDI, YOU GET $2.50. IT IS NOT A BUDGET FOR THE POOR. IT IS THE HIGHER EARNERS. CHLOE, THEY ARE GOING TO CALL THIS THE CLIMATE BUDGET. NO, THEY WON'T. YOU CAN SEE ACROSS THIS BUDGET A SWATHE OF CUTS TO THE LIKES OF MANAGING THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME AS WELL IS PRICING FOR EMISSION PROGRAMS, THE ANTARCTICA PROGRAM. IT REALLY SPEAKS VOLUMES ABOUT WHERE THIS GOVERNMENT'S PRIORITIES ARE. THEY HAVE PUT ALL THEIR EGGS IN THE BASKETS OF THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME TO GET EMISSIONS DOWN, BUT THEY ARE REMOVING MECHANISMS TO MAKE IT WORK. IT DOESN'T ADD UP. AS I WAS READING THROUGH, IT OCCURRED THEY ARE PAYING FOR THE TAX CUTS, HALF $1 BILLION IS GOING TOWARDS FUNDING THE TAX CUTS. IT IS PATENTLY RIDICULOUS. THEY ARE ASKING THE NEW ZEALANDERS TO PULL THE WOOL OVER THEIR OWN EYES. WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE IS FUNDING SHOULD BE RING FENCED FROM OUR HIGHEST POLLUTERS GOING INTO DECARBONISATION OF ECONOMY. IT DOESN'T ADD UP. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. THIS GOVERNMENT CANNOT SAY THEY ARE CONFRONTING THE CLIMATE CRISIS. JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, SHANE JONES MAKE ANNOUNCEMENTS AROUND COALMINING. THE ACT PARTY SAID DRILL. ALL I GET FROM THIS BUDGET IS THE INFORMATION THEY ARE LOOKING TO BURN, BABY, BURN. DO YOU THINK KIWIS DESERVE SOME TAX RELIEF AT THIS MOMENT? THERE ARE PEOPLE DOING IT TOUGH. LITTLE EARNERS ARE GOING TO THE FOOD BANK. THAT POVERTY IS CREEPING IN REAL FOR MANY FAMILIES. ISN'T IT TIME TO GIVE THEM TAX RELIEF? THERE ARE NOBLE OF ECONOMIC MECHANISMS, WHICH ARE TAX AND SPEND. THE GREENS IT TOOK TO OUR ELECTION CAMPAIGN A WEALTH TAX WHICH WOULD HAVE REMOVED THE BOTTOM TAX BRACKET. BUT WE WERE IMPLEMENTING THAT WEALTH TAX SO THAT THOSE AT THE TOP PAID THEIR FAIR SHARE, WHICH WOULD HAVE UNABLE THE GOVERNMENT TO HAVE THE REVENUE TO FUND AFFORDABLE, ADEQUATE HOUSING FOR ALL TO ENSURE A GUARANTEED MINIMUM INCOME AND CLIMATE ACTION. THESE ARE CHOICES THEY MAKE. ON THAT POINT, WE HAD IN THE PREBUDGET ANNOUNCEMENT THAT $2.9MN, FOR LANDLORDS, WHICH OF THE RESERVE BANK HAS SAID THAT WILL BED UP THE COST OF HOUSING. SO I WANT PEOPLE TO FOCUS ON THAT. DESPITE ALL THE RHETORIC ON TAX CUTS, THE GOVERNMENT IS INTENTIONALLY MAKING DECISIONS THAT WILL INCREASE HOUSING COSTS. THERE IS MORE MONEY FOR COMPLIANCE TO THE IRD. WE HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THIS BEFORE. I YOU HAPPY TO SEE THAT? IT IS GREAT. MORE COMPLIANCE IS WONDERFUL. BUT WE ARE MISSING THE POINT THAT I THINK ANDREW BAYLY ONCE SAID IN THE DEBATING CHAMBER WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT INTRODUCING THE TOP TAX BRACKET. WHAT HE SAID IS THAT THERE IS SUCH A LEGITIMATE THING AS LEGITIMATE TAX AVOIDANCE. TO THAT EFFECT, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT IF WE HAVE A TAX SYSTEM SET UP THAT SEES THE TOP 311 FAMILIES PAYING AN EFFECTIVE TAX RATE LESS THAN HALF OF THAT OF THE AVERAGE NEW ZEALANDER, THAT IS LEGITIMATE BECAUSE IT IS THE WAY THE SYSTEM IS LEGALLY SET UP. BUT I THINK THE MAJORITY OF US WOULD SAY THAT IS UNFAIR. FINAL QUESTION. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO NAME THE BUDGET? PUNCHING DOWN. CHLOE, THANK YOU. JUST BEFORE WE MOVE ON, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER THE TAX CUTS ARE FOR EVERYONE. DAVID SAYING THEY ARE FOR CERTAIN PARTS OF THE ELECTORATE. WHAT IS YOUR POINT IN THIS? THE KEY IS THE BUDGET WILL BE DELIVERED THROUGH A SOCIAL INVESTMENT LENS, WHICH MEANS IT WILL BE TARGETED NOT JUST ON THE BASIS OF ETHNICITY LIKE TEHPARTY MAORI CLAIMS HAS BEEN DISMANTLED BUT ALSO LOOKING AT EDUCATIONAL OUTCOMES AND WHAT IS HAPPENING IN FAMILIES. IF THE MONEY IS DELIVERED THROUGH THAT LENS, IT WILL GET TO THOSE WHO NEED IT AND WILL BE TARGETED AT THOSE WHO WILL BE THE BIGGEST BENEFICIARIES OF THE SPENDING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THIS IS NEWSHUB'S LIVE BUDGET '24 SPECIAL. JUST AFTER THE BREAK, WE WILL BE TALKING TO FINANCE MINISTER NICOLA WILLIS, AND WE'LL DIG INTO THE SPENDING ON LAW AND ORDER. BACK IN A TICK. Shopping duty again? I'm earning more than just brownie points. (BEEP!) And they're adding up! VOICEOVER: Scan your Clubcard to save with Club Deals, earn rewards and much more. You've earned this one. Find your wonderful. New World. THIS IS NEWSHUB'S LIVE BUDGET '24 SPECIAL. THE FINANCE MINISTER WILL BE WITH US LIVE IN JUST A MOMENT. IF YOU'RE JUST JOINING US, TAX CUTS HAVE BEEN DELIVERED ` 1.9 MILLION HOUSEHOLDS BENEFIT AN AVERAGE OF $60 FORTNIGHT ` A SINGLE MINIMUM AGE EARNER $25 A FORTNIGHT. THAT IS THE TAX CUT. ALSO BEING DELIVERED HAS BEEN EDUCATION. SOME STATISTICS ON EDUCATION FROM THE BUDGET. HEALTHY SCHOOL LUNCHES, THE ONE DAVID SEYMOUR HAS BEEN CLAIMING TO SAVE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. WE WILL SEE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, WHETHER IT IS HEALTHY OR NOT. OK. THE OTHER KEY PLAYERS IN THE COALITION ARE NEW ZEALAND FIRST, WHO HAVE HAD SOME WINS IN THE BUDGET WHO HAVE HAD SOME WINS IN THE BUDGET. POLITICAL REPORTER JAMIE ENSOR CAUGHT UP WITH SHANE JONES IN THE BUDGET LOCK-UP A LITTLE EARLIER. IT FULFILS A MAJOR COMMITMENT OF THE COALITION AGREEMENT. THE $1.2 BILLION FUND IS OUR PROMISE. AND QUITE FRANKLY, IT'S OUR COMMITMENT TO REGIONAL NEW ZEALAND. IN THE PAST, YOUR PROVINCIAL GROWTH FUND WAS CALLED A BIT OF A SLUSH FUND. HOW IS THIS ONE GOING TO DIFFER? OBVIOUSLY, IT'S GOING TO BE DRIVEN BY ADAPTATION, BUT IT'S GOING TO WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH STAKEHOLDERS, INCLUDING LOCAL GOVERNMENT, IWI, COMMERCIAL INTERESTS, BECAUSE WE'RE MOVING GOVERNMENT, IWI COMMERCIAL INTERESTS, BECAUSE WE'RE MOVING FROM CO-GOVERNANCE TO CO-INVESTMENT. WHAT TYPE OF PROJECTS COULD WE SEE FUNDED? THE FIRST $200M IS DEDICATED TO CLIMATE RESILIENCE. THAT'S FLOOD PROTECTION, STOP BANK PROJECTS, BECAUSE THE REALITY IS WE ARE DEALING WITH VOLATILE WEATHER. BOTH THE MAORI COMMUNITY AND THE BROADER REGIONAL COMMUNITY ARE CONSTANTLY AFFLICTED BY THE MERCURIAL NATURE OF THE WEATHER GODS. AND YOU SPOKE ABOUT THE FUNDS BEING POSITIVE FOR MAORI. CAN YOU JUST UNPACK THAT A BIT MORE? YEAH. I MEAN, WE'VE ALREADY GOT SOME WORK HAPPENING, �AWITH THE RATNA VILLAGE. WITH THE RATNA VILLAGE. I WANT TO DO PRACTICAL THINGS THAT HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY. I DON'T WANT TO WE'LL GET TOO LOST IN THE RABBIT HOLES OF IWI POLITICS. HISTORICALLY, THE RATANA VILLAGE WAS ASSISTED BY THE NATIONAL PARTY. WE'RE GOING TO ASSIST THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND SANITATION UPGRADE FOR THE RATANA VILLAGE. AND THAT'S SOMETHING BEYOND ANY IWI. AND IT'S A KEY INSTITUTION THAT'S VERY MEANINGFUL TO THE MAORI COMMUNITY. THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER ANNOUCEMENTS IN THE BUDGET TOO, AND ONE OF THOSE AREAS IS LAW AND ORDER. IF WE HAVE A QUICK LOOK AT THOSE. THE EXTRA 500 OFFICES HAS A FIGURE ON IT. DAVE, THAT COULD BE THE BOOT CAMP. WHAT YOU THINK? I THINK IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS BEING SPENT ON PREVENTION, AT THE ROOT CAUSES RATHER THAN BEING THE AMBULANCE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT BOOT CAMP'S WORKS, IN FACT, THE CONTRARY. RIGHT. OK. THANK YOU FOR THAT. WE WILL GO BACK TO PARLIAMENT NOW. REBECCA YOU HAVE THE MINISTER OF THE MOMENT WITH YOU. ABSOLUTELY. YOU ARE. THIS IS YOUR FIRST BUDGET. YOU HAVE MADE GOOD ON YOUR CAMPAIGN PROMISE. YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE TAX CUTS NOW FOR TWO YEARS, I THINK. NOW THEY HAVE FINALLY ARRIVED, THEY FEEL VERY MODEST. WE HAVE ALWAYS SAID THEY WOULD BE MODEST BUT MEANINGFUL. I KNOW NEW ZEALANDERS WHO HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING FOR THESE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS WILL NOTICE THIS MONEY IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS. FOR FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN IN PARTICULAR, $78 A FORTNIGHT IS MEANINGFUL AND MAKES A DIFFERENCE. THAT IS ANOTHER FAMILY OUTING. THIS IS MONEY THAT WILL COME EVERY FORTNIGHT INTO THE FUTURE. IN THIS CURRENT ECONOMIC ENVIRONMENT, IS THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR AVERAGE WAGE EARNERS MEANINGFUL? WILL IT BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING ABLE TO MAKE ENDS MEET AND NOT? I THINK IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE. I KNOCK ON PEOPLE'S DOORS DURING THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN WHO TOLD ME THAT THEY WERE IN A SITUATION WHERE $20 A WEEK WAS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PAYING THE BILLS ALL BEING AN OVERDRAFT. I THINK WHEN TIMES ARE TOUGH, EVERY LITTLE BIT COUNTS. THE ALTERNATIVE IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT TAKES THAT MONEY AND FRITTERS IT AWAY. WE ACTUALLY THINK THE PRIORITY SHOULD BE NEW ZEALANDERS, THEIR CHOICES. YOU ARE GOING TO BE TAKING A CLOSER LOOK AT SOME NEW ZEALANDERS' MONEY, THAT NEW MONEY FOR AUDITS. HOW MUCH DO YOU THINK OR I YOU ANTICIPATING THAT MIGHT RAISE? JUST OVER 100 MILLION A YEAR IS THE ADVICE WE HAVE RECEIVED FROM THE IRD. THAT IS BY MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE. IT IS ABOUT INTEGRITY AND THE TAX SYSTEM. IT WAS AN INITIATIVE PROPOSED BY NEW ZEALAND FIRST AND IT WILL HELP SUPPORT INCOME TAX RELIEF FOR THOSE WHO DESERVE IT. I THOUGHT WINSTON PETERS AS SOON AS I SAW IT. TAXPAYERS ARE THE WINNERS TODAY; OTHER LOSERS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT THERE WAITING FOR FUNDING FOR LIFE-SAVING CANCER DRUGS? AS WE WERE PROMISED? THEY HAVE NOT BEEN FUNDED. WE REGRET WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FULFIL THAT COMMITMENT YET, BUT WE REMAIN ABSOLUTELY FOCUSED ON THAT COMMITMENT. IT IS SOMETHING WE WILL FOCUS ON IN FUTURE BUDGETS. IT IS CHALLENGING TO TALOFA MAC *TO TELL PHARMAC. THOSE CANCER PATIENTS AT WEIGH HEAVILY ON OUR MINDS. YOU HAVE SEEN IN THIS BUDGET A BOOST TO FUNDING FOR THE HEALTH SYSTEM AND PHARMAC SO THAT NEW ZEALANDERS CAN GET THE HEALTH CARE THEY DESERVE. GIVEN THAT THEY ARE WEIGHING ON YOUR MIND, WILL YOU MAKE A COMMITMENT TO MAKING BETTER PRIORITY NEXT YEAR? IT IS A PRIORITY. AS WE GO INTO NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, THAT IS ONE OF THE POLICIES THAT WILL BE HIGH ON THE LIST. BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE THAT COMMITMENT TODAY? I AM PART OF THE CABINET AND WE TAKE EACH BUDGET HAD A TIME. THERE ARE SOME AMBITIOUS NUMBERS IN THE BUDGET FOR YOUR PATH BACK TO SURPLUS BY 2027. ARE THEY REALISTIC WESTERN MARK CAN YOU DO IT? WE HAVE TO DO IT. THE ALTERNATIVE, IF WE STUCK TO THE SPENDING PART OF THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT, WAS THAT WE WOULD NOT GET THE BOOKS BACK IN BALANCE UNTIL 2030, 31. THAT IS TOO FAR AWAY. THAT IS SADDLING OUR KIDS WITH A HUGE AMOUNT OF DEBT. THIS WILL BE A TIME OF CARE AND DISCIPLINE. THE GOVERNMENT WON'T BE WASTING MONEY AND SPRAYING IT AROUND ON FAILED PROGRAMS. WE WILL MAKE SURE EVERY DOLLAR IS WORKING HARD AND WE ARE DRIVING VALUE FOR MONEY. I THINK IF YOU CAN'T DO IT, YOU ARE GIVING GRANT ROBERTSON A HARD TIME FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS FOR MOVING ON THOSE OPERATING ALLOWANCES AND NOT GETTING BACK INTO SURPLUS ` YOU COULD FIND YOURSELF IN THE SAME POSITION. I AM VERY CONSCIOUS OF THAT, BUT I HAVE GOT OFF TO A GOOD START. IN THE CAMPAIGN WE SAID OUR FIRST ALLOWANCE WOULD BE 3.2BN, AND WE HAVE STUCK TO IT. LAST OF ALL, ANY THOUGHTS ON THE NAME OF THE BUDGET? I THINK IT IS THE GOLDILOCKS BUDGET. IT IS JUST RIGHT. VERY GOOD. AND YOU VERY MUCH, NICOLA WILLIS. NICOLA WILLIS WITH THE GOLDILOCKS BUDGET. SOME FINAL THOUGHTS ON THE PANEL. WILL THE RESERVE BANK LIKE IT? NOT REALLY, TO BE HONEST. THEY SOUNDED A BIT CAUTIOUS LAST WEEKEND I CAN SEE WHY. THE BOTTOM LINE NUMBER HERE IS FOR THE COMING FINANCIAL YEAR TREASURY NO LONGER THINKS FISCAL POLICY IS HELPING MONETARY POLICY WITH RESPECT TO GROWTH, WHICH OF THE BIG DEAL. SO COULD THIS PUSH OUT OCR CUTS? IT PROBABLY REFLECTS WHY THE RESERVE BANK PUSHED ITS OWN EXPECTATION. OK. FRAN, YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT CONFIDENCE. WE HAVE HAD THE CUTS AND THE BALANCING OF THE BOX. YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT CONFIDENCE. WHY? WE WILL NOT GET THE GROWTH STORY GOING WITHOUT MORE COMPETENCE. SHE HAS DONE A BALANCING THE BOOKS EXERCISE TODAY. I DISAGREE. I THINK ON THE WHOLE IT HAS BEEN BRILLIANT. I THINK ABOUT IT LIKE IF YOU ARE SITTING DOING HOUSEHOLD FINANCES ` YOU WOULD BE DOING SOME OF THAT. YOU MIGHT JUST HAVE TO BORROW A LITTLE BIT MORE TO LOOK AFTER EVERYBODY LIKE YOU DO WITH REVOLVING CREDIT MORTGAGE TELL YOU GET TO THE STATE WHERE YOU HAVE GROWTH.. THE STORY NEEDS TO CHANGE. TIME TO STOP BLAMING PREDECESSORS AND START TO TALK UP THE ECONOMY. THEY HAVE DELIVERED A BASIC BUDGET. MOST PEOPLE HAVE STOPPED BELIEVING THAT BIG NUMBERS HAVE DELIVERED BIG OUTCOMES, SO THEY ARE DELIVERING GETTING BACK TO CORE SERVICES. DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE CREATED A POLITICAL BASE TO BUILD ON? THAT SHOULD GIVE THEM THE PLATFORM WHERE THEY CAN GROW. THEY HAVE TO GET RE-ELECTED IN THREE YEARS TIME. THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOME OF THOSE HOPE INDUCING INITIATIVES. AND THAT WRAPS UP NEWSHUB'S BUDGET 2024 SPECIAL. THANK YOU TO OUR PANEL COMMUNITY ADVOCATE DAVE LETELE, BARRISTER AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR BRIGITTE MORTEN, WESTPAC'S KELLY ECKHOLD AND NZME'S FRAN O'SULLIVAN. WE WILL HAVE CONTINUING COVERAGE THROUGHOUT THE AFTERNOON ON NEWSHUB.CO.NZ AND A COMPREHENSIVE ANALYSIS AND REACTION ON NEWSHUB LIVE AT 6. I'M SIMON SHEPHERD. NGA MIHI NUI, TENA TATOU KATOA. CAPTIONS BY FAITH HAMBLYN AND MAEVE KELLY. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2024.