The Lead with Jake Tapper Aired June 11, 2024 - 17:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [17:00:03] … JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: …I'm Jake Tapper. And we're starting off this hour with breaking news in the law and justice lead. Just moments ago, President Biden arriving in Delaware greeting his son Hunter, who was just hours ago found guilty in a federal gun case against him. CNN also just spoke with a member of the jury who reached that guilty verdict. Let's go straight to CNN's Evan Perez outside the courthouse in Wilmington, Delaware. And Evan, you spoke with juror number 10. Tell us what he told you. EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake, juror number 10, who we spoke to without showing his face, he was concerned about his safety. One of the things he told us was that very quickly, very early in the case he had a pretty good idea of where this case was going. But he said he wasn't 100 percent sure, until he heard all of the evidence, listen to what he said what the crucial part of the prosecution's case. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you look at that form, are you a drug addict? Are you an unlawful user of drugs? And he said, No. Clearly, he lied. (END VIDEO CLIP) PEREZ: And, Jake, you know, there was five days of prosecution evidence, mountains of evidence, overwhelming these jurors trying to drive home the point that he was addicted to drugs. And the defense really tried to focus on the days around when he bought this gun in October 2018. And it's clearly that did not really make an impact for these jurors. We also asked this juror about the idea that politics could have played any role in this case, obviously, this is the first time the son of the President has been on trial for any criminal violation. And here's what he had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would tell them, Hunter did get a fair trial. Politics played no part in this whatsoever. We were not allowed to talk to anybody, not even our families. Not even the jurors. We cannot talk about the case, until it was actually given to us yesterday. Now that I look back on nothing was mentioned anything about the President of the United States. (END VIDEO CLIP) PEREZ: And Jake, you know, the idea that Hunter Biden had so many family members, including the First Lady, the the jurors noticed that, but they didn't talk about it. They didn't even discuss it within themselves when they got to this -- to the jury room. He said that this was a decision that was pretty unanimous fairly quickly, given all of the circumstances that they had to deal with here. Jake. TAPPER: All right, Evan Perez with the breaking news in Wilmington, Delaware, thanks so much. More on breaking news, this in our world lead, Hamas has responded to the latest proposal for a hostage and ceasefire deal and Hamas has rejected it. CNN Political and Foreign Policy Analyst Barak Ravid is breaking this up. Did Hamas, Barak, give any explanation for its rejection? BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL & FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST: Hi, Jake. So first, Hamas did not say that it rejected the deal. Hamas said that it gave a response to the Qatari and Egyptian mediators that it gave several comments and remarks on parts of the Israeli proposal. Israel, the Israeli government, Israeli officials are the ones saying that after they received Hamas response and analyze it, they treat it as a rejection. I think we still need to hear from the mediators and most importantly, from the White House that White House Spokesman John Kirby said that the White is still analyzing and studying the Hamas response. So, Hamas is saying they just gave few comments, Israel is saying Hamas rejected the deal. The White House still hasn't said anything of substance. I think we should wait and hear more what the White House says, what the Qatari say and what the Egyptians say. TAPPER: So, U.S. officials say that they believe Hamas leader, Yahya Sinwar, feels as though he has the upper hand in the negotiations. This after a Wall Street Journal report that says that the messages that they've seen from Sinwar show that he believes Hamas is benefiting from the civilian death toll of Palestinians in Gaza. Is that similar to what you're hearing from officials in Israel and the United States and elsewhere? RAVID: So the Israeli said for a long time that, you know, Sinwar that there is a big gap between Sinwar and Hamas leadership, Hamas's political leadership in Qatar. That Sinwar was much more hardline. And what I heard from U.S. officials in the last few weeks is that because Sinwar thinks that as the war goes on, Israel will be more under pressure and the U.S. will put more pressure on Israel. [17:05:02] This is why they try to mobilize the international community to support President Biden's speech including the Security Council Resolution that passed yesterday that the Biden administration thought that if Sinwar cares so much about the international pressure on Israel, maybe when he sees the Security Council Resolution, they'll have second thoughts on where the international pressure is directed, maybe understand that he's also under pressure, and not only the Israelis. TAPPER: All right, Barak Ravid, thanks so much for that reporting. Last night in New York City outside an exhibit that memorializes the 364 innocent victims at the Nova music festival who were slaughtered by the terrorists of Hamas, a group of anti-Israel protesters, many of whom could be accurately described as pro-Hamas set off flares and smoke bombs and chanted there is only one solution Intifada revolution. They also displayed this flag, celebrating the October 7 attack which slaughtered more than 1,200 Israelis and others. New York politicians ranging from House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries to Governor Kathy Hochul condemned the celebration of the slaughter of Jews with even Israel critic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, calling the protest and the display atrocious anti-Semitism. But Hamas and Hamas supporters' callousness about the death of Jews is not particularly new nor is it news. What might be is the state of callousness about the death of Palestinians. Necessary sacrifices is how Hamas terrorists leader Yahya Sinwar describes the deaths of 1000s of Gazans, his own people theoretically, this according to messages viewed by the Wall Street Journal would shed more light on how Sinwar may be influencing a potential ceasefire deal despite the fact that he's been in hiding ever since Hamas attacked Israel on October 7. CNN's Oren Liebermann examines the messages and what could come next in ceasefire negotiations. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In an all- out push to stop the fighting in Gaza, negotiators are hoping for elusive success. The focus is on Yahya Sinwar, Hamas's military leader hasn't been seen in public since the start of the war, hiding somewhere in the bombarded enclave, but Sinwar may believe he has the upper hand. We have the Israelis right where we want them, Sinwar said in recent messages to Hamas officials, viewed by the Wall Street Journal. Sinwar's leaked messages which CNN hasn't seen and cannot independently verify shed light into his mindset during eight months of brutal war. According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza, more than 37,000 Palestinians have been killed in Israel's assault on a territory. In one message to Hamas leaders in Doha, Sinwar wrote, these are necessary sacrifices. The Israeli military responded on social media saying "Sinwar profits off the deaths of Gazan civilians. Hamas leaders don't care about Gazans. How many times do they have to say it for themselves before the world believes them?" Secretary of State Antony Blinken in the region to push a ceasefire proposal aimed his message directly at Sinwar. ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: While the people that he purports to represent continue to suffer in a crossfire of his own making or will he do what's necessary to actually move this to a better place to help from the suffering of people, to help bring real security to Israelis and Palestinians alike. LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Sinwar spent more than two decades in Israeli prisons convicted for playing a role in the murder of two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians suspected of working with Israel. He was released in the 2011 hostage deal for Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit and rose to the top of Hamas. Israeli journalist Shlomi Eldar, says Sinwar's ascent was marked by his brutality. SHLOMI ELDAR, ISRAELI JOURNALIST: This is Sinwar and life therefore him is nothing. As many Palestinian will be killed by the IDF, the more pressure from the international community. LIEBERMANN (voice-over): Believed to be the mastermind of the October 7 attack, messages suggest even Sinwar was surprised by its atrocities. "Things went out of control," he wrote early on. But Sinwar soon doubled down on the war. In a message to Hamas's political leaders in December he said, "We have the capabilities to continue fighting for months." (END VIDEOTAPE) LIEBERMANN: Secretary of State Anthony Blinken is still in the region. He's met with Jordanian officials, Egyptian officials, Israeli officials, and soon he'll meet with Qatari officials. The problem, Jake, is that it's not clear any of this has the intended effect which is trying to put pressure on Hamas and you see it there in the message is viewed by the Wall Street Journal from Yahya Sinwar there, that's where the focus is because he is viewed as the decision maker and perhaps the sole decision maker, even if he's out of touch with Hamas political leadership sitting in Qatar. TAPPER: Not to mention habitats with what the people in Gaza want him to do. Oren Liebermann, thanks so much. [17:10:02] We're going back to the other big story. This hour, today's guilty verdict in the Hunter Biden gun case. How many Republicans are now comparing the outcome of this case to Donald Trump's conviction? Plus, a stunning verdict you'd likely have not heard about today, produce giant Chiquita was just ordered to pay $38 million to victims of a Colombian terror death squad. This case is frankly bananas. The backstory ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) TAPPER: In our politics lead, reaction pouring in from Capitol Hill after a jury in Delaware found Hunter Biden, the president's son, guilty on three gun charges. Let's get right to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Manu, what's the reaction been from Republican lawmakers to the guilty verdict? MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Republicans have a bit all over the map on this, Jake. Some of them have said that, that frankly Hunter Biden should not have been prosecuted over a gun charge, given their views of the Second Amendment. Others said that this was a case was overwhelming and he should have been prosecuted. And some align themselves with Donald Trump's messaging suggesting that perhaps the issue is a distraction from their larger concerns of contentions over Joe Biden and his actions. [17:15:19] And I asked the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, whether or not this undercuts the Republicans long held claims of the Justice Department goes after Republicans and lets Democrats off the hook. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RAJU: But, Mr. Speaker, you've been saying two tier system of justice for some time, here's the President's son being convicted on three counts. Doesn't that undercut your claims? REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), HOUSE SPEAKER: It doesn't. Every case is different. And clearly the evidence was overwhelming here. I don't think that's the case in the Trump trials. And all the charges that have been brought against them have been obviously brought for political purposes. Hunter Biden is a separate instance. (END VIDEO CLIP) RAJU: Now Republicans in the House are indicating that they're still pressing head and trying to investigate Joe Biden, even though there's tried for months and months, really since the beginning of this Congress, to tie Hunter Biden's overseas business dealings with the President of the United States at the time when he was vice president. They have struggled to prove anything in that case. But this is what James Comer, who was leading that investigation said. He said, "Today's verdict is a step towards accountability, but until the Department of Justice investigates everyone involved in the Biden's corrupt influence peddling schemes that generated over 18 million and foreign payments of the Biden family, it will be clear Department officials continue to cover for the big guy, Joe Biden." But again, that investigation really has not borne out that Biden -- Joe Biden acted corruptly or enriched himself based on his sons, Hunter, business dealers. Now, Democrats have a much different view. They say it essentially confirms that the Justice Department system works fairly and treats both sides equally. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): What would Republicans point to as a two tiered system of justice when the President's son was just convicted of a crime? I mean, if anything, this shows the difference that Democrats are willing to accept when our justice system works as functions and as designed. We're not here contesting the results. We're not here trying to defund the FBI or the Department of Justice because we don't like the outcome of a good -- of a given trial. We respect the judicial process. (END VIDEO CLIP) RAJU: Now, also, Jake, there's also been silence among top Democrats as well, Chuck Schumer, the Senate Majority Leader has not yet weighed in on this and neither has Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic Leader. So you're seeing a much different approach between the two parties over this issue. As Republicans, they're a bit divided about how they're responding so far. TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much. Appreciate it. My panel joins me now. Kate Bedingfield, let me start with you because you know the Bidens, having been communications director at the Biden White House. This obviously is personally very, I'm sure, horrible for the President and his family. How much of a blow is it to him, forget the politics for one second, to President Biden? KATE BEDINGFIELD, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, personally, it's very hard. I mean, he is -- the Biden family is incredibly close. They're very close knit, they lean on each other. I worked for Joe Biden for almost eight years. I sat in countless meetings in different scenarios, including in the Oval Office when a member of his family would call him and he would stop the meeting and step out to take a call from his family. I mean, he truly puts family first. So, for him, obviously, this is very hard. It's hard to watch your son grapple with the kinds of demons that Hunter Biden has been dealing with. It's hard to watch somebody in your family who you love deal with addiction and all of the awful things that can flow from that. So this is hard. I don't think that it will -- you know, it's not something that's going to knock him sideways, prevent him from focusing on being president of United States. He's very resilient. He has dealt with a lot of personal tragedy in his life while also being in public office. He obviously lost his son Beau to brain cancer while he was vice president. So he's somebody who has dealt with personal difficulty while handling the rigors of public office and he'll do that here. But of course, it's hard for him, of course. TAPPER: Liz Goodwin of the "Washington Post" also joins us. Thanks so much for being here. So you heard CNN's Manu Raju tick through some of the reaction from Republicans on the Hill. We've mentioned before that Republican Senator Lindsey Graham and former Congressman Trey Gowdy have criticized the case for being brought at all. Today, Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky, a Republican, posted, "Hunter might deserve to be in jail for something but purchasing a gun is not it." Matt Gaetz, the Florida Republican said on Twitter, "The Hunter Biden gun conviction is kind of dumb tbh," to be honest. What do you make of this reaction kind of mixed? LIZ GOODWIN, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes, I think this case in some ways is the hardest possible one for Republicans to celebrate or grab on to. So, you know, the most positive comments you've seen today from people like Comer, even Speaker Johnson are more just saying, OK, it's a step towards accountability but we want them to focus on, you know, payments or these financial dealings that we believe are inappropriate. That idea of celebrating, you know, someone having a gun for 11 days, who didn't check the box that said they were a drug user, it's just not -- it's very awkward. You know, it's a second amendment issue. It's something that I think a lot of Republicans don't really want to celebrate. [17:20:29] TAPPER: And Mike, let me ask you, I mean, the this whole two tiered system of justice, is it not undercut by -- MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes. TAPPER: -- this by the Menendez trial going on, by the pending trial against Congressman Cuellar? Those are three -- DUBKE: I'm going to keep saying no. TAPPER: I know, but how -- explained to me, because those are three prominent Democrats, including the president's son. DUBKE: Because I think I've got a different definition -- TAPPER: OK. DUBKE: -- to your justice system here. I think what we've seen happen with Hunter Biden, and what we saw happen with President Trump is on a different tear than what we're seeing with Menendez and others that is pure corruption, where the FBI investigates bribery, or they investigate -- they investigate votes being sold. This is -- this seems to me tit for tat. We can't forget, and it is unfortunate what happened, but we can't forget that this is the outgrowth of a failed plea deal, that this was probably part of a plea deal in order to try to get a little bit more to push on the Hunter Biden side to accept the plea deal that went awry. And now we had to face the consequences of them filing this action. But we do have a two tiered system. One is being used for political purposes right now that we see in all of the quotes that are out there. And the other is just pure corruption that we've had in this country since Mr. Smith came to Washington. TAPPER: So, which -- OK. Let's put the New York case, both New York cases aside for one second. Do you think the Jack Smith cases are purely political, that there's no reason there for there to be any prosecution or even investigation? DUBKE: No, I do -- I -- again, I think with the -- with some of the federal charges that have been brought on the Jack Smith charge, on the top secret documents, I do think that there is some level of political opportunism there. But I think on some of the others, that center around January sixth, absolutely, those should be pursued. But then when we talk about those cases, Georgia, Nevada, Wisconsin, Arizona, those cases seem -- TAPPER: Oh, against the fake electors. DUBKE: Exactly right. TAPPER: Yes. DUBKE: And the timing of those, the individuals who were brought -- when they were brought to bear, all of that seems to be on this other tier of our two tiered systems. TAPPER: So we don't know what's going to happen -- well, you can go. BEDINGFIELD: Oh, I just -- TAPPER: Well, your face was saying -- her expression was saying a lot, might as well use words. BEDINGFIELD: No. I'm just (inaudible). So you're arguing that -- you're -- are you arguing that Hunter's case is politically motivated or not? DUBKE: Yes. BEDINGFIELD: I was just -- I was confused listening to your breakout. DUBKE: I think that -- I think a lot of the gun charges, most likely, on the tax evasion, I don't know enough about that case to make that point. But to what you've been saying, of Republicans keep pointing to September, I think that is the case that is going to be a little bit more -- TAPPER: That's the tax charge? DUBKE: That's the tax charge. TAPPER: Yes. DUBKE: I think that case, if there are any political repercussions of these cases with Hunter Biden, I think that case is going to be the one that may affect some individuals voting for the President. TAPPER: And then let me also note that Darrell Issa, who's a member of the House Judiciary Committee, he posted on Twitter, "This is only the beginning of accountability for the Biden culture of corruption." And this has to do with these charges, that not only Hunter Biden, but the President's brother James Biden, made a lot of money selling access to whether directly or indirectly to the then vice president now president. BEDINGFIELD: Well, right, but they have not been able to prove any kind of link between Hunter's business dealings or Jim Biden's business dealings and Joe Biden, and that's the issue here. I mean, there's a continued effort to try to muddy the waters, you know, but they have tried and tried and tried. Comer has tried, it's been months. I mean, this has been an effort by House Republicans. They've been unable to turn off any shred of evidence that shows any corruption. And so you know, you can talk about Hunter's trial in September, you know, maybe it brings these issues back to the forefront as a messaging vehicle. But the fact of the matter is, no evidence has been found that links Hunter's dealings to Joe Biden, that's where your corruption case falls apart. TAPPER: If this case goes up to the appeals court process, this is Hunter Biden case, even the U.S. Supreme Court, it's a Second Amendment case. And you heard Tom Massie basically say earlier in the show like I know plenty of people who smoke pot who, I'm paraphrasing, plenty of people who smoke pot who shouldn't have their gun rights taken away from them. Is this a case you might think that the Conservatives, even perhaps the NRA might weigh in on Hunter's behalf or is that just not how politics works anymore? [17:25:01] GOODWIN: I guess that is possible. I mean broadening it out to think about people who use pot recreationally and gun ownership, you know, you could actually see a taste there. TAPPER: It's drug usage. It's not hard drug usage or hard drug addiction, it's just drug use. GOODWIN: Right. And I think -- DUBKE: Under federal definition. TAPPER: Yes, which includes pot. BEDINGFIELD: Yes. DUBKE: Yes. GOODWIN: And I think that is why this is just so awkward for a lot of Republicans to latch on to at this point. TAPPER: All right. It'd be interesting to do get a Venn diagram of gun owners and marijuana users because I'm guessing there is quite a bit of overlap. I don't know, not that I know personally. Thanks you all. Coming up, a doctor who Robert F. Kennedy Jr. once called to learn about vaccines. That physician says RFK Jr. then went on to publicly twist his words. And the doctor is here to set the record straight. What he says he really told the now presidential candidate. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) …