CAPTIONS BY JAMES BROWN AND TOM CLARKE. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2024 TENA KOUTOU. NAU MAI, HAERE MAI. WELCOME TO Q+A. I'M JACK TAME. THIS MORNING, A PROVOCATIVE QUESTION ` IS DEMOCRACY IN OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT KIND OF OVERRATED? HAS THE MOVE AWAY FROM DEMOCRACY ULTIMATELY BEEN GOOD FOR TAURANGA? I THINK IT HAS. AND THAT IS THE RESULT OF GOOD GOVERNANCE. THAT IS THE RESULT OF PROFESSIONAL GOVERNANCE. THEN, WE'RE AT FIELDAYS, AS THE GOVERNMENT CONFIRMS OUR BIGGEST EMITTING INDUSTRY WON'T BE FORCED TO PAY UNDER THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME. NESTLE, DANONE, MCDONALD'S, SAINSBURY'S, TESCO'S, YOU NAME IT, MARS, THEY ALL WANT LOWER-EMISSIONS PRODUCTS. AND WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS IF WE CAN'T GET THAT FROM NEW ZEALAND, WE MIGHT GET IT FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. WE'LL HAVE THAT FOR YOU SHORTLY. BUT WE BEGIN THIS MORNING WITH THE CO-CHAIR OF LABOUR'S MAORI CAUCUS. WILLIE JACKSON HAS DESCRIBED LAST MONTH'S BUDGET AS 'THE MOTHER OF ALL ANTI-MAORI BUDGETS' AND SAYS THE GOVERNMENT'S IMPENDING TREATY PRINCIPLES BILL IS THE MOST DIVISIVE LEGISLATION IN A GENERATION. BUT ARGUABLY LABOUR'S MAORI CAUCUS HAS BEEN OVERSHADOWED DURING THE FIRST STANZA OF THIS PARLIAMENTARY TERM BY THE OPPOSITION AND CAMPAIGNING OF MPs IN TE PATI MAORI. WILLIE JACKSON, KIA ORA. IS THAT FAIR? VERY UNFAIR, JACK. I AM VERY PROUD OF THE PERFORMANCE OF OUR MAORI CAUCUS IN THIS FIRST TERM, THIS FIRST SIX MONTHS. WE REPRESENT A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF MAORI. WE GOT THE MOST MAORI VOTES, 40% OF THE MAORI VOTE. WE DIDN'T WIN THE SEAT, BUT WE GOT 85,000 VOTES. THE MAORI PARTY GOT 58,000. WE HAVE AN EQUAL MANDATE. LET'S LOOK AT THE HIGH-PROFILE MOMENTS OF OPPOSITION. BUDGET DAY, THE NATIONWIDE PROTESTS. WHY DIDN'T YOU SPEAK? I WANT TO DO AND I WAS ASKED TO SPEAK, BUT TE PATI MAORI CHANGED... THEY WANTED US TO COMMIT TO A MAORI PARLIAMENT, AND I COULDN'T. THAT'S OK. IT WAS THEIR DECISION, AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOOD TO SPEAK, BUT THEY MADE A DECISION TO SPEAK ON THEIR OWN. WHAT YOU THINK OF A MAORI PARLIAMENT? I UNDERSTAND WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM. IT IS A HUGE FRUSTRATION FOR MAORI AT THE MOMENT, MAORI POLICY IS UNDER ATTACK. IT IS A NATURAL COURSE WHERE THEY ARE GOING. I THINK IT IS A DISTRACTION, NOT SOMETHING WE WOULD SUPPORT IN LABOUR. WE HAVE IMMEDIATE PROBLEMS IN FRONT OF US. A HOUSING PROBLEM, HEALTH PROBLEM, WE HAVE TO FIGHT WITHIN THE SYSTEM, AND I THINK IT IS A DISTRACTION. HOW WOULD YOU FIND AND SUPPORT IT? IN 1890, IT WAS FIRST MOOTED. WE HAD FOUR MAORI SEATS THEN. NOW WE HAVE SEVEN MAORI SEATS, BUT 26 MAORI ON THE LIST, PEOPLE LIKE DAVID SEYMOUR, SHANE JONES. I DON'T THINK IT WILL WORK. WHAT COULD WORK AS A CONGRESS, WHICH MASON JURY HAS TALKED ABOUT, BUT A PARLIAMENT, ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION, MIGHT BE A DISTRACTION AND TAKE TOO MUCH TIME. WE HAD TO FIGHT WITHIN THE SYSTEM, AND WE ARE DOING A GOOD JOB. YOU DESCRIBED IT AS THE MOTHER OF ALL ANTI-MAORI BUDGETS. THE GOVERNMENT EXTENDED TE MATATINI FUNDING, WHILE DEPARTMENTAL FUNDING FOR TE WHATU ORA HAS DECREASED. THE WEST PART OF THE BUDGET IS THE GOVERNMENT BREAKING ITS PROMISE FOR 13 CANCER MEDICINES. IT IS A DISGRACE WHAT THEY DID. THE MAORI BUDGET, I AM DISAPPOINTED. IT IS DISGRACEFUL WHAT THEY DID, IN TERMS OF HEALTH. WE HAVE PEOPLE DYING. THEY INCREASED AN EXTENDED FUNDING... IT WAS THE WORST PROMISE I HAVE EVER SEEN. AROHA TO MALCOLM MULHOLLAND. WE ARE $90 MILLION DOWN FOR MAORI DEVELOPMENT FUNDING. $300 MILLION DOWN IN TERMS OF GENERAL FUNDING. THAT MEANS WE HAVE NO WHENUA DEVELOPMENT. MAORI HOUSING IS NOT BEING SUPPORTED, MAORI JUSTICE. MATARIKI FUNDING HAS BEEN HALVED. THEY HAVE DROPPED A LITTLE BIT INTO TE MATATINI, BUT THIS IS A DEFICIT BUDGET. WE DON'T GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE ECONOMICALLY AS WE HAVE BEEN IN PREVIOUS YEARS, WHERE WE PUT $1 BILLION A YEAR TOWARDS BY MAORI FOR MAORI FUNDING. HE RAISED HEALTH FUNDING, THE CANCER DRUGS, YOU HAVE ALSO CRITICISED SCRAPPING THE MAORI HEALTH AUTHORITY. CAN YOU NAME ANY SERVICE THAT WILL NO LONGER BE FUNDED? NOT AT THE MOMENT, BECAUSE WE WERE STILL AT THE INITIAL STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT. EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE OPPOSED THE SCRAPPING, YOU CAN'T NAME A SINGLE SERVICE THAT WON'T BE FUNDED? WE ARE NOT QUITE SURE YET. WE ARE SIX MONTHS INTO IT. BUT I EXPECT SERVICES TO FALL AWAY THE HEALTH MINISTER HAS COMMITTED TO CONTINUING FUNDING. HE ALSO COMMITTED TO FUNDING 30 MEDICINES, AND THEY DIDN'T DO THAT. WHAT YOU SAY AND DO IS DIFFERENT. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT FUNDING WILL BE PULLED. I EXPECT FUNDING TO BE REDUCED IN MAORI HEALTH AREAS RIGHT ACROSS THE SPECTRUM, BUT I CAN'T SAY RIGHT NOW THAT ANYTHING WILL BE REDUCED, BECAUSE THEY ARE SAYING THEY WILL NOT DO THAT. THEY SAID THE SAME THING AT THE START OF THE BUDGET. ALLEGATIONS ABOUT INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOUR AT MANUREWA MARAE HAVE BEEN DENIED. DO YOU SUPPORT THE ENQUIRY? I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. THAT'S HAPPENING. THE POLICE ENQUIRY IS HAPPENING. EVERY ENQUIRY IS HAPPENING ACROSS GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. WE HAVE BEEN CLEAR THAT THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH, THAT PROCESS, AND IF ANYTHING IS FOUND UNTOWARD, THEN OBVIOUSLY THERE WILL BE PROBLEMS FOR THOSE PEOPLE. IT'S A HUGE THING HAPPENING IN SOUTH AUCKLAND AT THE MOMENT. A LOT OF US HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE, BUT IT IS NECESSARY. WE HAD AN OUTSTANDING CANDIDATE, PEENI HENARE. WE WERE SHOCKED HE LOST THE ELECTION. HE HAS NOT TAKEN ANY LEGAL ACTION. WE ARE WATCHING. IT'S IMPORTANT. WE CAN'T HAVE PEOPLE'S PRIVATE INFORMATION SHARED. I AM NOT SAYING THAT HAS HAPPENED. BUT IT IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT, IT CUTS TO THE HEART OF DEMOCRACY AND WHAT PEOPLE SEE AS FAIR, AND WE WANT TO KNOW A FAIR PROCESS HAS BEEN SERVED THERE. WE ARE BEING RESPECTFUL OF THE PROCESS. BEFORE THESE ALLEGATIONS WERE MADE PUBLIC THREE MEDIA REPORTING, HAD YOU HEARD ANY ALLEGATIONS? YOU HEAR THINGS ALL THE TIME. HERE IS THE THING, WE ARE ALL PART OF EACH OTHER. TO BE CLEAR, ALL ALLEGATIONS ARE STRONGLY DENIED, ANNUAL CIRCLES, BECAUSE YOU HAVE CLOSE CONNECTIONS WITH MANUREWA, HAD YOU HEARD ANY ALLEGATIONS? I HAD HEARD FROM THINGS. BUT PEOPLE ONLY HALF HEAR THINGS. THE SAME ALLEGATIONS? WE HEARD SOME OF THAT TALK LAST YEAR, WHEN THE ELECTION WAS ON. RUMOURS ARE FLYING ALL THE TIME. SOMETIMES ALLEGATIONS ARE FLYING. A LOT OF THAT IS JOVIAL. WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. MANUREWA MARAE HAS DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB SERVING SOUTH AUCKLAND. THEIR CHAIRMAN HAS MADE THAT POINT. THEY GET IRRITATED, BECAUSE THEY SEE THEMSELVES AS LITTLE PLAYERS. OUR COMMUNITIES WANT THE POWERFUL INVESTIGATED TOO. THEY WANT ACT INVESTIGATED, THE FAST TRACK LOBBYISTS INVESTIGATED, TOBACCO LOBBYISTS. THEY FEEL, I HOPE THEY ARE NOT JUST COMING FOR MANUREWA MARAE. YOU TALK ABOUT THE VALUE OF DEVOLVED SERVICES. EVEN IF THIS ENQUIRY FINDS NO WRONGDOING, WHAT DAMAGE HAD THESE ACCUSATIONS DONE TO PUBLIC PERCEPTIONS? I HOPE THAT THE PUBLIC REALISE MANUREWA MARAE, NO ONE CAN DELIVER BETTER THAN MARAE TO THE PEOPLE THERE. THAT'S MY POINT. EVEN IF THE ENQUIRY FINDS NO WRONGDOING, THE PUBLIC PERCEPTIONS HAVE BEEN DAMAGED? I WOULD ACCEPT THERE WOULD BE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. THE DELIVERY THROUGH VACCINATION PROCESSES, THERE HAS BEEN IMPECCABLE DELIVERY BY A LOT OF THESE MARAE, GETTING TO OUR PEOPLE. SOME QUESTIONS THAT YOU WOULD AGREE THERE HAS BEEN SOME DAMAGE? THERE IS DAMAGE NOW. OUR COMMUNITIES ARE DAMAGED, BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. THEY OBVIOUSLY WANT A THOROUGH PROCESS TO HAPPEN, AND PEOPLE, IF THERE HAS BEEN SOMETHING UNTOWARD, HAVE TO PAY THE PRICE. LET'S NOT FORGET WHAT A WONDERFUL MARAE. YOU CHAIRED THE CAMPAIGN FOR LABOURS MAORI SEATS. WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A REVIEW. WE ARE DISAPPOINTED. THAT DIDN'T NEED A REVIEW. WE ACCEPT TE PATI MAORI ATTRACTED THE YOUTH VOTE. WHAT DID YOU DO WRONG? I DON'T KNOW IF WE DID A LOT WRONG. WE DID SO MUCH RIGHT, TE PATI MAORI HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLE. INCREDIBL WE LOST 6 SEATS. YOU ARE BEING SMART, JACK. THERE ARE TWO VOTES. YOU KNOW THERE ARE TWO VOTES. WHO WON THE PARTY VOTE? WE WON THE PARTY VOTE HANDS DOWN IN SEVEN SEATS. WHAT DID YOU DO WRONG? I DON'T THINK WE DID A LOT WRONG. MAORI WERE STRATEGIC. OUR MAORI CAUCUS HAVE BEEN COMPLEMENTED BY TE PATI MAORI IN DELIVERING INITIATIVES TO MAORI LIKE NO OTHER PARTY EVER HAS. WE BROUGHT A STRONG MAORI EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM, INCREASED FUNDING FOR TE MATATINI A NATIONAL MATARIKI DAY. MAUMAU TO TOTO MAORI. WASTE YOUR MAORI BLOOD. THAT WAS HANA RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE. ERICA STANFORD WAS CLEAR, WINSTON HAD A CRACK AT HER IN THE HOUSE. IT IS APPROPRIATE TO SAY YOU ARE WASTING YOUR MAORI BLOOD? I HAVE SEEN WORSE THAN THAT. WINSTON HAS SAID WORSE THAN THAT. I THOUGHT GOOD ON HER. I WAS PROUD OF HER. SHE HAD A CRACK AT WINSTON AND HE WAS PUT IN HIS PLACE. THIS IS A YOUNG WOMAN WHO IS GETTING SUPPORT OUT THERE. I THOUGHT IT WAS A FABULOUS RESPONSE TO WINSTON, WHO WENT ON A SILLY RENT. WHO WENT ON A SILLY RANT. THE GOVERNMENT WAS ACCUSED OF BEING ON A MISSION TO EXTERMINATE MAORI, WHITE SUPREMACY. IS THAT APPROPRIATE? IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR HER AND HER CONSTITUENTS. TE PATI MAORI GO UP IN THE POLLS. IF YOU USE LANG WOULD LIKE EXTERMINATE AND YOU GO UP IN THE POLLS, THAT JUSTIFIES IT? IT IS NOT APPROPRIATE FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. YOU CANNOT BE A GOVERNMENT THAT KEEPS ATTACKING MAORI ISSUES EVERY DAY. LET'S LOOK AT THIS GOVERNMENT. EXTERMINATE? TAIHO. A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE SEEING EXTERMINATION OF TREATY PRINCIPLES, THE MAORI LANGUAGE. 'A MISSION TO EXTERMINATE MAORI.' OUR PEOPLE ARE FEELING THAT AT THE COALFACE, THAT SEYMOUR AND WINSTON, ALL THEY CAN TALK ABOUT IS TOO MUCH MAORI LANGUAGE, THIS IS A SEPARATE COUNTRY BECAUSE OF JACKSON AND TE PATI MAORI. OUR PEOPLE ARE SICK OF IT, AND YOU ARE GETTING THE RESPONSE FROM HANA, MARAMINA, KIRI WAITITI, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. IF YOU ARE GETTING ATTACKED, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE ARE GETTING ATTACKED, DISABLED PEOPLE ARE GETTING ATTACKED, YOU WILL GET LANGUAGE IN RESPONSE. IT IS NOT THE LANGUAGE I WOULD USE. I PREFER TO FIGHT WITHIN THE SYSTEM AND TO COUNTER-ATTACK THIS GOVERNMENT. IF YOU BELIEVE THOSE PRINCIPLES ARE ADDING TO DIVISION IN SOCIETY, I WONDER HOW THAT LANGUAGE MIGHT ALSO CONTRIBUTE TO DIVISIONS. THE TREATY PRINCIPLES BILL IS SET TO BE INTRODUCED THIS YEAR. WHAT IS YOUR STRATEGY TO OPPOSE IT? TO REMIND THE COUNTRY THAT WE HAVE SPECIAL PRINCIPLES HERE ABOUT PARTICIPATION AND PARTNERSHIP AND IT IS A SPECIAL TREATY THAT WE HAVE. AND IT IS A TREATY THAT RECOGNISES MAORI INDIGENOUS RIGHTS, BUT MAORI INDIGENOUS RIGHTS CAN BE BEAUTIFUL FOR ALL NEW ZEALANDERS. MATARIKI IS MAGNIFICENT. ALL NEW ZEALANDERS CAN PARTICIPATE. STOP LISTENING TO RUBBISH FROM SEYMOUR AND WINSTON WHO MAKE UP WE ARE SEPARATISTS IN LABOUR. WE ARE PART OF NEW ZEALAND, WE WANT PARTNERSHIP. CHRIS HIPKINS IS LEADING THE WAY MAGNIFICENTLY, NEW ZEALAND'S MOST POPULAR POLITICIAN. WE ARE SHOWING NEW ZEALAND OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS HOW PARTNERSHIP CAN WORK FOR EVERYONE, THE LANGUAGE DAVID SEYMOUR IS USING, DO YOU AGREE ALL CITIZENS BEING EQUAL IS A FUNDAMENTAL DEMOCRATIC VALUE? OF COURSE. DOES THE TREATY FOR DIFFERENT RIGHTS WOULD HAVE A PEOPLE? HAD A DIFFERENT RIGHTS FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE MAKE CITIZENS ALL EQUAL? WE ALL HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS IN CERTAIN AREAS, BUT MAORI HAVE A SPECIAL INDIGENOUS RIGHT THAT IS RECOGNISED IN ARTICLE 2 AND ARTICLE 3. ARTICLE 2 PARTICULARLY RECOGNISES TINO RANGATIRATANGA RIGHTS. ALL NEW ZEALANDERS CAN SUPPORT THAT. NEW ZEALANDERS ARE ALL RECOGNISED IN THE TREATY. BUT THIS IS A CUNNING, DANGEROUS TRACK THAT SEYMOUR IS GOING DOWN. HE WANTS TO TAKE AWAY MAORI TREATY RIGHTS. MAORI ARE NOT ACCEPTING IT. THAT'S WHY YOU ARE SEEING LOOSE LANGUAGE FROM MAORI OUT THERE. ARTICLE 2 IS AT THE CENTRE OF THIS DEBATE. TINO RANGATIRATANGA, TO BE CLEAR, IN YOUR VIEW, DOES TINO RANGATIRATANGA APPLY ONLY TO MAORI WHO SIGNED THE TREATY OR ALL? IT APPLIES TO MAORI. MURRAY HAVE A SPECIAL RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE AS PARTNERS IN THIS COUNTRY, AND JUDGES AND ACADEMICS HAVE INTERPRETED THE TREATY IN THAT MANNER, AS US BEING ABLE TO BE FULL PARTNERS IN THIS COUNTRY. OTHERS HAVE SAID, IT IS NOT ABOUT PARTNERSHIP, IT IS ABOUT MAORI RUNNING THE WHOLE SHOW. THAT IS NOT WHAT THE LABOUR PARTY WANTS, OR WHAT REASONABLE NEW ZEALANDERS WANT. WE WANT TO PARTICIPATE WITH OUR PAKEHA BROTHERS AND SISTERS RIGHT ACROSS THIS COUNTRY. WE OWE THE JUDGES FROM 1987, AND PEOPLE LIKE JIM BOLGER AND JACINDA WHO SAY WE ARE PARTNERS, DESPITE WHAT SEYMOUR IS SAYING. PLEASED TO SEE CHARTER SCHOOLS BACK? NO, WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT. YOU HAVE A LINE ON THIS. YOU SUPPORTED CHARTER SCHOOLS IN THE PREVIOUS ITERATION. YOU INTRODUCED CHARTER SCHOOLS. I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT SOMEONE INTERESTED IN CHARTER SCHOOLS WOULD HAVE A VIEW ON THE REINTRODUCTION. SEYMOUR KNOWS WE BUILD ONE WITH HIM. I DON'T SUPPORT THE REINTRODUCTION. BECAUSE I SUPPORT THE LABOUR PARTY LINE. HOWEVER, I WILL TALK TO THAT WITH OUR LEADER ABOUT WHAT MAORI THINK, SOME OF OUR MAORI PERSPECTIVES. I WAS WON OVER BY THE ARGUMENT. I UNDERSTAND WE ARE OUR PEOPLE HAVE GONE WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS. IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THAT. ONE MORE QUESTION. DO YOU ACCEPT THAT UNDER THE PREVIOUS ITERATION, CHARTER SCHOOLS DID GOOD FOR MANY MAORI? THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT. WE BROUGHT INTO IT. I WOULD LOOK LIKE A HYPOCRITE IF I SAID OTHERWISE. THERE IS A LOT ON WHAT IS HAPPENING TOO. MEDIA SECTOR UNDER HUGE PRESSURE. WHAT A MESS. KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW NOW, WHAT IS THE BIGGEST FACTOR? WE HAVE A CHANGING WORLD. EVERYTHING IS CHANGING. BIG INDICES ARE COMING IN. PEOPLE'S CHANGING HABITS. A LACK OF RESOURCES AND SUPPORT. I HAVE BEEN DISGUSTED WITH THE WAY NATIONAL HANDLED THE MEDIA. THE PREVIOUS MINISTER WAS ALL AT SEA, SHOWED NO SUPPORT OR EMPATHY. THE MINISTER SHOULD HAVE GOT IN AND HELPED NEWSHUB, FOUND A WAY OUT. YOU COULD HAVE LOOKED AT NEW ZEALAND ON AIR FUNDING. THE MARKET IS BROKE. SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT DO SOMETHING MORE? WE TRIED A MERGER. IT DIDN'T GO TO PLAN. WHEN YOU SAY SHOULD WE HAVE DONE MORE, WE PROBABLY DID MORE THAN ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT IN PREVIOUS YEARS. WE INCREASED RADIO NEW ZEALAND FUNDING BY 60%, AN EXTRA 25 MILLION A YEAR. I GAVE RECORD FUNDING TO MAORI BROADCASTING. PUT IN PLACE THE DIGITAL BARGAINING BILL. LET ME TAKE THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT COIN. WE DID MORE THAN ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT IN THE LAST 20 YEARS. YOU HAD THREE BROADCASTING MINISTERS, TO FORMER BROADCASTERS, YOU APPOINTED MEMBERS TO THE BOARD OF TVNZ. YOU WAITED UNTIL TWO MONTHS BEFORE THE ELECTION TO INTRODUCE DIGITAL BARGAINING BILL. DO YOU BEAR SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CURRENT CRISIS? WE DID MORE IN OUR TERM. I'M PROUD OF WHAT WE DID WE PUT AN IDEA UP OF A MERGER. IT DIDN'T GO TO PLAN. THE PRINCIPLES OF IT WERE BRILLIANT. WE KNOW IT WOULD HAVE BEEN WONDERFUL AT DIDN'T GO TO PLAN. IF ONLY LABOUR HAD A MAJORITY. YOU'RE BEING SARCASTIC. I DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THE NEGATIVE TRACK. I THINK WE HAVE DONE SO MUCH AND THE FAIR DIGITAL BARGAINING BILL MUST BE PASSED. TELL GOLDIE TO GET ONTO IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. AFTER THE BREAK, HE WAKA EKE NOA-MORE ` IF AGRICULTURE WON'T BE COVERED BY THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME, WHAT WILL BRING EMISSIONS DOWN? HOKI MAI. THE HUNT FOR THE HOLY GRAIL OF LOW-METHANE-EMITTING TECH IS WELL AND TRULY ON. ON THE EVE OF FIELDAYS, THE GOVERNMENT CONFIRMED AGRICULTURE WOULD BE DROPPED FROM THE E.T.S. REPORTER WHENA OWEN WAS AT FIELD DAYS THIS WEEK TO CHAT TO UP-BEAT FARMERS AND THE SCIENTISTS WITH THE CHALLENGE OF HELPING US MEET THE ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS CONSUMERS NOW DEMAND. (UPLIFTING MUSIC) COUNTRY COMES TO TOWN WITH THE RECENT NEWS THAT AGRICULTURE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE EMISSIONS TRADING SCHEME. THE DAIRY DEFINITELY IS LOOKING PROMISING AT THE MOMENT. THAT'S FORE SURE. YEAH, SO YOU DAIRY FARMERS, A BIT MORE UPBEAT? YEAH, DEFINITELY. CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC. BUT WITH MANY IN THE FARMING SECTOR FEELING SOME OPTIMISM AROUND THE NEW GOVERNMENT, ARE THEY CONFIDENT ENOUGH TO GET THEIR WALLETS OUT HERE? GOING SHOPPING? DEFINITELY GOING SHOPPING. GOT A COUPLE OF TRACTORS. WE'LL PROBABLY LOOK AT THEM TOMORROW MAYBE. OH LOOK, WE HAD A FANTASTIC DAY YESTERDAY, AND WE SOLD FOUR OR FIVE BITS OF GEAR. AND AROUND THE TRAPS, WE HEARD A $1 MILLION HARVEST FORAGER WAS SOLD WITHIN HALF AN HOUR OF FIELDAYS OPENING. (CHUCKLES) YEAH, THAT RUMOUR COULD BE TRUE. YEAH, SO, UH, YEAH, THERE'S SOME PRETTY BIG-TICKET ITEMS, UH, ON THIS SITE. SO THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD ONE TO GET OUT` STRAIGHT OUT OF THE GATE. FIELDAYS IS A CALENDAR FIXTURE FOR POLITICIANS, AND IT WAS A WARM WELCOME FOR THE PARTY, WHICH DELIVERED ON ITS PROMISE TO KEEP AG OUT OF THE E.T.S FOR NOW. ULTIMATELY, WE'RE VERY, VERY CLEAR ` FARMING MUST MEET ITS OBLIGATION TO REDUCE EMISSIONS, THE SAME AS ALL OTHER NEW ZEALANDERS DO. WE'RE JUST NOT WILLING TO CLOSE DOWN FARMS AND PRODUCTION TO DO THAT. THE GREENS WERE THERE. IT WAS A SOLITARY STROLL THROUGH FIELDAYS. (LAUGHS) THE GREENS AREN'T EXACTLY... WELL, THAT'S A STEREOTYPE, ISN'T IT? IT IS A STEREOTYPE. I'M SURE THERE ARE A LOT OF FARMERS WHO VOTE GREENS. YEAH, WELL, LOOK, I'VE HAD SOME REALLY CONSTRUCTIVE AND PRODUCTIVE SESSIONS. THERE ARE? YEAH. LOOK, THIS MAN... YEAH. ...A RURAL MAN, PROBABLY KNOWS MORE. THERE ARE THERE ARE A TON OF FARMERS WHO VOTE GREEN WHO CARE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. NORTH WAIKATO FARMER CHRIS FALCONER IS WELL KNOWN FOR HIS SO-CALLED GREEN FARMING. HE'S NOT CONFIDENT THE RECENT E.T.S DECISION IS THE RIGHT APPROACH. THE ISSUE IS WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT MITIGATING METHANE, SO WE TALK ABOUT MITIGATIONS OF EXISTING SYSTEMS INSTEAD OF, UM, HAVING A DEEP DIVE INTO WHAT OUR SYSTEMS ARE. SO THE ASSUMPTION IS WE'RE GOING TO PRODUCE THIS METHANE. HOW DO WE MITIGATE IT? INSTEAD OF SAYING HOW ARE WE FARMING THAT ALL OF THESE EMISSIONS ARE COMING OUT. (BLUESY ROCK MUSIC) HERE ARE SOME EQUIPMENT THAT WE'VE SET UP SO THAT WE CAN SHOW FARMERS OUT AT FIELDAYS. THIS IS JOHN ROCHE, MPI'S CHIEF SCIENCE ADVISOR, SHOWING US SOME OF THE TOOLS DEVELOPED TO MEASURE METHANE. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOW TAKING A TWO-PRONGED APPROACH ` A NEW GROUP TO WORK WITH FARMERS AND A FUNDING INJECTION TO DEVELOP TOOLS TO REDUCE METHANE, WHETHER THEY BE VACCINES, METHANE-INHIBITING FEED OR BREEDING LOW-METHANE-EMITTING ANIMALS. DO YOU THINK, WITH R&D AROUND METHANE, THAT THERE'S A SENSE OF URGENCY NOW THAT FARMERS WILL NOT BE PART OF THE E.T.S FOR NOW? OH, THERE'S A SENSE OF URGENCY. OUR MARKETS, OUR CUSTOMERS ARE DEMANDING A REDUCTION IN THE METHANE. UM, THE REMOVAL OF THE BACKSTOP IS JUST GIVING US TIME TO GET THE SOLUTIONS IN PLACE. WAYNE McNEE HEADS AGRIZERO NZ, A GOVERNMENT AND PRIVATE ENTITY THAT'S FUNDING SOME CUTTING-EDGE METHANE RESEARCH, WHICH HE HOPES DOWN THE TRACK WILL HELP FARMERS MEET THE NEW EXPECTATIONS OF NEW ZEALAND'S CUSTOMERS. THEY WANT LOW-EMISSIONS PRODUCTS THEY CAN SELL TO CONSUMERS AROUND THE WORLD, AND THEY` IS THE WORLD DEMANDING IT? THE WORLD IS DEMANDING IT ABSOLUTELY. ALL OUR MAJOR CUSTOMERS OUT OF NEW ZEALAND ` NESTLE, DANONE, MCDONALD'S, SAINSBURY'S, TESCO'S, YOU NAME IT, MARS, THEY ALL WANT LOWER-EMISSIONS PRODUCTS. AND WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS IF WE CAN'T GET THAT FROM NEW ZEALAND, WE MIGHT GET IT FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE. SO WILL THE NEW TOOLS FOR REDUCING METHANE COME ON-STREAM QUICK ENOUGH? HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU THAT THIS E.T.S DECISION IS GOING TO LIMIT OUR ACCESS TO FOREIGN MARKETS? YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IS YOU ARE RIGHT. OUR CUSTOMERS ARE EXPECTING NEW ZEALAND TO MAINTAIN ITS HIGH LEVEL OF SUSTAINABILITY. I USED TO WORK FOR ONE OF THE LARGEST COMPANIES IN THE WORLD THAT ACTUALLY PROCURED A LOT OF DAIRY PRODUCTS FROM NEW ZEALAND, AND SO I UNDERSTAND THAT INTIMATELY. BUT EQUALLY, WE'RE NOT IN A POSITION WHERE WE ACTUALLY SHUT DOWN FARMING HERE IN NEW ZEALAND, AND WE MOVE THAT PRODUCTION OFFSHORE TO LESS-CARBON-EFFICIENT PLACES. WHILE FARMING IS HAVING TO FACE HUGE CHALLENGES NOW, IT'S STILL AN ATTRACTIVE CAREER OPTION FOR THESE TEENAGERS VISITING FROM WAIRARAPA, AND SOON OFF TO MASSEY OR LINCOLN. A LOT OF CHALLENGES THOUGH, SO. BUT I LIKE THAT, AND SO... SO YOU'RE QUITE KEEN ON AGRICULTURE? YEAH. YEAH, YEAH. FUTURE FARMERS ` IN FACT, THERE'S A NEW ADVOCACY GROUP CALLED 'FUTURE FARMERS', WHO WANT AN INPUT INTO POLICY THAT MAY ONE DAY AFFECT THEM. I THINK WHAT'S REALLY UNIQUE ABOUT OUR GROUP IS WE HAVE PEOPLE FROM, I GUESS, ALL THE DIFFERENT POLITICAL PARTIES. WE'VE GOT FROM GREENS RIGHT THROUGH THE ACT, NEW ZEALAND FIRST, LABOUR, NATIONAL ` EVERYONE, WE'VE GOT ALL THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN THE GROUP, AND IT'S QUITE COOL. WE SORT OF HAVE A PHILOSOPHY OF, WE RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER. KEEP GOING! HOW DO I CHANGE THE GEAR? (LAUGHS) WHILE THE GOVERNMENT MAY HAVE DELIVERED A BIT OF A MORALE BOOSTER TO FARMERS IN THE TEAM DE FERNS STAND, THE PRIME MINISTER IS LEARNING HE CAN'T WIN EVERY RACE, GRANTED THIS ONE WAS AGAINST AN OLYMPIAN. WELL DONE, MATE. THAT WAS FUN. THAT WAS FUN. WHENA 'FEILDAYS' OWEN THERE. IF YOU WANT TO CONTACT THE Q+A TEAM, PLEASE KORERO MAI. THESE ARE OUR MAIN PLATFORMS. YOU CAN EMAIL US OR FIND US ON X OR FACEBOOK. UP NEXT ` A FASCINATING INTERVIEW WITH THE FORMER MINISTER FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ` WHY ANNE TOLLEY THINKS IT'S TIME OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT CHANGED. WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT ` DEMOCRACY OR COMPETENT GOVERNANCE? FOR THREE AND A HALF YEARS, THAT QUESTION HAS HUNG OVER ONE OF OUR BIGGEST CITIES AFTER THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT SACKED THE TAURANGA CITY COUNCIL AND REPLACED THE DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED COUNCILLORS WITH FOUR PROFESSIONAL COMMISSIONERS. IT WAS A BIG CALL ` JUST THE FOURTH TIME IN THREE DECADES A COUNCIL HAS BEEN SACKED AND REPLACED WITH A COMMISSION. NOW AS THE COMMISSIONERS PREPARE TO HAND POWER BACK TO POLITICIANS, I TRAVELLED TO TAURANGA AND SAT DOWN WITH THE COMMISSION CHAIR. ANNE TOLLEY IS A FORMER SENIOR NATIONAL CABINET MINISTER AND MINISTER FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT. I BEGAN BY ASKING HER IF THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT MADE THE RIGHT CALL. YES, I THINK IT DID. THE CITY WAS IN PRETTY DIRE STRAITS, ACTUALLY. I WAS QUITE SURPRISED, EVEN THOUGH I LIVE IN THE BAY OF PLENTY. I HADN'T REALISED HOW BAD IT WAS. IT WAS DIRTY. IT WAS UNKEMPT. IT LOOKED UNLOVED. MAINTENANCE HAD BEEN... COSTS HAD BEEN KEPT REALLY LOW. BIG BACKLOG OF MAINTENANCE. NO INVESTMENT, REALLY, IN GROWTH. EVERYONE WAS GRUMPY ` IT DIDN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU WERE A NEW RESIDENT, WHETHER YOU WERE AN OLD RESIDENT, EVERYONE WAS GRUMPY, BECAUSE GROWTH HAD JUST SIMPLY OVERWHELMED THE CITY. IT IS AMAZING TO GO BACK AND CONSIDER THE OBSERVER REPORT FROM 2020 INTO THE COUNCIL'S PERFORMANCE. IT WAS A BRUTAL READ. SO, THE COUNCIL, IT SAID, HAD, QUOTE, 'A LIMITED UNDERSTANDING OF GOVERNANCE PRACTICES. 'THE BATTLE FOR THE MAYORALTY NEVER ENDED. 'THERE WAS A STRONG QUESTIONING OF THE ABILITY OF COUNCILLORS 'TO ACT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE CITY.' BUT WAS IT REALLY ALL THE COUNCIL'S FAULT? NO. AND NOT JUST THAT COUNCIL'S FAULT. THE LACK OF INVESTMENT IN THE CITY HAD HAPPENED OVER MANY COUNCILS. I MEAN, THE POPULATION HAD ALMOST TRIPLED IN 15 YEARS. SO YOU REALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT. AND EVEN THE RATING STRUCTURE HADN'T BEEN ALTERED. SO THE RESIDENTIAL RATEPAYER WAS BEARING ALL THE BURDEN OF FUNDING GROWTH AND TRYING TO KEEP ON TOP OF GROWTH. FROM A PHILOSOPHICAL PERSPECTIVE, AS SOMEONE WHO HAD SPENT DECADES IN ELECTED REPRESENTATIVESHIP, DID YOU HAVE ANY HESITATION IN TAKING A ROLE AS COMMISSIONER? YEAH, I DID, BECAUSE IT'S... I'VE HAD A LONG PERIOD ` I STARTED IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT BEFORE I WENT TO CENTRAL GOVERNMENT, AND I BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY, AND I BELIEVE IN LOCALISM. SO I WAS A BIT NERVOUS ABOUT WHAT THE ROLE WOULD ENTAIL. AND I'VE NEVER TRIED TO BE A MAYOR. I DELIBERATELY SAID, I'M NOT GOING TO DO THE MAYORAL SORT OF THINGS. I'LL DO THE IMPORTANT STUFF, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO BE THE MAYOR, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE JOB. IT'S A DIFFERENT JOB. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, NOT DOING THE MAYORAL THINGS? SO, MAYORS CUT RIBBONS AND THEY'RE OUT AND ABOUT AND THEY'RE OPENING CONFERENCES AND THEY'RE OPENING BUILDINGS ` NOT THAT THERE WERE MANY... NO OFFICIAL CHAINS FOR COMMISSIONERS. NO OFFICIAL CHAINS FOR COMMISSIONERS, NO. SO I JUST WASN'T GOING TO TRY AND PRETEND TO BE THE MAYOR. THAT BEING SAID, YOU SAID YOU HAD SOME HESITATIONS. WERE THOSE BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE TO INTRODUCE COMMISSIONERS IN SOME WAY, OR SIMPLY THAT YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT DEMOCRACY? NO, I WAS JUST CONCERNED ABOUT DEMOCRACY. AND I WAS ALSO A LITTLE BIT WORRIED ABOUT... WE WERE ONLY APPOINTED OF SORT OF 18 MONTHS. WHAT CAN YOU DO IN 18 MONTHS? I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE IN CENTRAL GOVERNMENT TRYING TO... IT TAKES TIME TO GET THINGS INTO PLACE. I WAS A BIT WORRIED THAT 18 MONTHS WASN'T GOING TO BE ENOUGH TIME ` AND THAT PROVED TO BE` LOCAL GOVERNMENT'S EVEN WORSE FOR PROCESS THAN CENTRAL GOVERNMENT. AND SO 18 MONTHS WASN'T ENOUGH, EITHER. SO YOUR TERM WAS EXTENDED. YEAH. HOW DIFFERENT IS THE TAURANGA OF TODAY FROM THE TAURANGA YOU INHERITED? OH, MASSIVELY DIFFERENT. THERE'S A DIFFERENT VIBE IN THE CITY. I THINK IT'S FAR MORE... I THINK IT HAS MUCH MORE PRIDE IN ITSELF. PEOPLE CAN SEE ` THEY'RE PAYING MORE IN THEIR RATES, WE'VE CERTAINLY PUT THEIR RATES UP, BUT THEY'RE SEEING THINGS HAPPEN. AND I GET THAT ALL THE TIME. VERY SELDOM GO ANYWHERE THAT SOMEONE DOESN'T APPROACH ME AND SAY, 'THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU'VE MADE STUFF HAPPEN.' AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE. DO PEOPLE CRITICISE YOU, THOUGH? OH, WELL, YEAH. YOU NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE ALL THE TIME. I SUPPOSE YOU'RE NOT A POLITICIAN. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN THIS CASE, RIGHT? THEY DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE YOU OUT, AS SUCH. NO, THEY DON'T. AND FOR SOME PEOPLE THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, SO YOU'VE GOT TO UNDERSTAND THAT. AS YOU SAID, TAURANGA HAD NOT KEPT UP WITH ITS INCREDIBLE GROWTH. NO, IT HADN'T. IT HAD GROSSLY UNDERINVESTED IN INFRASTRUCTURE. ARE THERE SPECIFIC POLICY POINTS OR PROGRAMMES THAT YOU FEEL PROUDEST OF? WELL, YES. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT. I THINK ONE OF THE BIG PROJECTS REALLY WAS TO HAVE A FOCUS ON PEOPLE AND COMMUNITY FACILITIES. AS YOUR POPULATION GROWS, TO HAVE A REAL COMMUNITY, YOU NEED THOSE FACILITIES. SO OUR FIRST LONG-TERM PLAN, ALL THE SPORTS CLUBS CAME AND SAID TO US, LOOK, WE'VE BEEN COMING HERE FOR 10, 12, 14 YEARS. OUR NUMBERS HAVE DOUBLED. WE NEED MORE FACILITIES. WE'RE TURNING PEOPLE AWAY. THE ARTS CAME, NEEDED MORE SUPPORT, NEEDED MORE PLACES, NEEDED MORE RECOGNITION. SO ALL OF THAT COMMUNITY-BASED HAD BEEN NEGLECTED, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT IT'S ALL ABOUT THE ROADS AND THE RUBBISH AND THE PIPES. IT'S NOT. LOCAL GOVERNMENT'S ABOUT PEOPLE. AND IF YOU WANT TO BUILD COMMUNITIES, YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AFTER YOUR PEOPLE. SO THAT WAS A MASSIVE INVESTMENT, AND WE'VE REALLY FOCUSED ON THAT OVER THE LAST THREE AND A HALF YEARS. YES, WE DO NEED MORE ROADING INFRASTRUCTURE, AND WE WORKED HARD WITH BOTH GOVERNMENTS TO MAKE THEM REALISE JUST... ROADING IS JUST AN ENABLER. IT ENABLES PEOPLE TO MOVE AROUND AND LIVE THEIR LIVES, BUT IT ALSO ENABLES HOUSING. SO WE'RE ABOUT 8000 TO 9000 HOUSES SHORT IN TAURANGA AT THE MOMENT. WE HAVE THE HIGHEST RATIO IN THE COUNTRY BETWEEN THE AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD INCOME AND THE AVERAGE COST OF A HOUSE. SO MANY, MANY PEOPLE WANTING TO MOVE HERE FOR WORK, MANY YOUNG PEOPLE. THERE'S NO HOPE OF THEM BUYING A HOME WHEN YOUR FIRST HOME IS GOING TO COST YOU $800,000 OR $900,000. IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE? NOT ANY TIME SOON. WE'VE APPLIED ` IN FACT, I'VE JUST SUBMITTED ON BEHALF OF TCC TO THE FAST-TRACK CONSENTING. I MADE THE POINT IT CAN TAKE 10 YEARS, IF YOU GET A CLEAR RUN, TO BRING A PIECE OF LAND TO WHERE YOU START CONSTRUCTING HOUSES. 10 YEARS. YEAH. THAT'S IF YOU'RE LUCKY. AND SEVEN OF THAT IS IN THE PLANNING AND CONSENTING. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BROUGHT MORE LAND INTO... WE'VE REZONED MORE LAND AND DONE WHAT WE CAN, BUT THE PROCESS IS SO LONG AND SO INVOLVED AND SO EXPENSIVE. IT JUST TAKES TOO LONG. THIS IS A BIT CHEEKY OF ME, BUT I'M WONDERING IF YOU'RE ABLE TO SEPARATE YOUR DIFFERENT ROLES AND DIFFERENT HATS. SO SEPARATE FOR ME YOUR ROLE AS COMMISSIONER IN APPLYING FOR CONSENTING THROUGH THAT FAST-TRACK PROCESS WITH YOUR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE AS A CENTRAL GOVERNMENT MINISTER. IS THAT FAST-TRACK GOOD LEGISLATION? I HOPE IT WILL BE BY THE TIME THEY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. BECAUSE THE IMPORTANT THING ABOUT NEW ZEALAND'S LEGISLATIVE PROCESS IS THAT SELECT COMMITTEE PROCESS. AND I LISTENED TO QUITE A FEW SUBMISSIONS. NO ONE WANTS TO WRECK OUR ENVIRONMENT. EVERYONE... WE WENT OUT TO THE PUBLIC HERE. THE ENVIRONMENT IS THE NUMBER ONE CONCERN. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO BE ABLE TO LIVE IN HOUSES AND GET OUT OF CARS AND GET OUT OF MOTELS. SO SOMEWHERE THERE HAS TO BE THE BALANCE. AND I JUST DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT THE BALANCE RIGHT. AND I THINK THAT ` WE HAVE A FAST-TRACK CONSENTING PROCESS AT THE MOMENT. I'M HOPING THAT BY THE TIME IT GOES THROUGH THAT PROCESS, THERE WILL BE SOME ENVIRONMENTAL BOUNDARIES PUT ON IT OR SOME LEVERAGE PUT ON IT. BUT WE'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO GET THAT HOUSING CONSENTED AND OUT AND DEVELOPED FASTER. WE'VE GROWN BY, WHAT, A MILLION PEOPLE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. WE'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO PUT THEM INTO HOUSES. AGAIN, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT MISCHIEVOUS FOR A QUESTION TO ASK A COMMISSIONER, BUT IS IT APPROPRIATE THAT THREE CABINET MINISTERS ULTIMATELY HAVE THE FINAL SAY OVER SIGNIFICANT PROJECTS? I'M NOT` I DON'T` I CAN'T COMMENT. I REALLY CAN'T. AT THE MOMENT, THE FAST-TRACK CONSENTING PROCESSES THAT WE'RE USING DO HAVE MINISTERIAL OVERSIGHT. I THINK THE QUESTION SHOULD BE, SHOULD THE ENVIRONMENT MINISTER BE ONE OF THOSE MINISTERS? DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE? AND THAT MIGHT HELP ALLAY SOME OF THE FEARS THAT THE COMMUNITY HAVE. AND DO WE NEED A LIMIT ON THE SIZE OF THE PROJECT OR THE TYPE OF PROJECT? ARE THESE PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH ANY OTHER PROCESSES? OR ARE THEY JUST NEW IDEAS THAT PEOPLE THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA? SO SOME OF THAT, I KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE MAKING SUBMISSIONS ON, AND I HOPE THE GOVERNMENT LISTENS. IN DEVELOPING THE CITY'S LONG-TERM PLAN, YOU FACED CRITICISM FROM SOME RESIDENTS FOR CONSULTING TOO MUCH WITH THE LIKES OF IWI AND BUSINESS, AND NOT ENOUGH WITH GROUPS LIKE THE RATEPAYERS ALLIANCE, WHICH HAS STEADFASTLY OPPOSED MUCH OF YOUR LEADERSHIP. DID YOUR PHILOSOPHY ON CONSULTATION DIFFER FROM THAT OF A COUNCILLOR OR OF A MAYOR WHO MIGHT CLAIM A BROADER ELECTORAL MANDATE? I THINK, IN REALITY, WE DID MORE CONSULTATION THAN I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED TO DO IF I WAS AN ELECTED MAYOR. AND WE CHANGED ITM SO INSTEAD OF JUST RELYING ON SUBMISSIONS AND THE FORMAL PROCESS, WE ACTUALLY WENT OUT TO MARKETS. WE ACTUALLY WENT OUT TO WHERE PEOPLE WERE. AND THOSE ARE SOME OF THE RICHEST CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD. THERE'S NO POINT IN US MAKING ALL THESE DECISIONS IF WE DON'T TAKE THE COMMUNITY WITH US. BECAUSE WHEN WE GO, THE COMMUNITY WOULD JUST VOTE IN PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO PUT IT ALL BACK. SO ALL THE WAY THROUGH, WE'VE BEEN VERY CONSCIOUS OF THE FACT THAT WE WANT TO BE IN STEP WITH THE COMMUNITY AS MUCH AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN. YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO PLEASE ANYONE. THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE GROUPS THAT DON'T AGREE. THIS IS THE WAY YOU FELT YOU COULD ACHIEVE SOME SORT OF MANDATE, SHORT OF HAVING AN ELECTION. THAT'S RIGHT. TWO CONTROVERSIAL THINGS YOU'VE PUT FORWARD ` YOU'VE ASKED THE HOUSING MINISTER TO RELAX SETTINGS, WHICH IN DOING SO WOULD ALLOW FOR MUCH HIGHER BUILDINGS IN MT MAUNGANUI; YOU'VE ALSO PROPOSED CONGESTION CHARGING. ARE EITHER OF THOSE THINGS GOING TO SURVIVE THE TRANSITION INTO AN ELECTED COUNCIL? WELL, PLAN CHANGE 33 WAS A BIG PIECE OF` CAME FROM LEGISLATION. AND WE WERE ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF A... TAURANGA HAS TO GROW UP AS WELL AS OUT, SO INTENSIFICATION IS REALLY, REALLY CRITICAL. WE ACCEPTED ALL OF THE HEARINGS, PANELS, RECOMMENDATIONS, EXCEPT TWO, THAT WE SENT OFF TO THE MINISTER, AS THE STATUTE ALLOWS. THE WHOLE OF MT MAUNGANUI WON'T BE BUILT UP. IT'S A NARROW STRIP AROUND THE CENTRE OF THE COMMERCIAL AREA, AND THE RMA MAY STILL APPLIES TO IT. SO THERE'S STILL A WHOLE LOT OF QUALIFYING MATTERS THAT WILL HAVE TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, SHOULD ANYTHING HAPPEN. AND NOW IT'S THE MINISTER'S DECISION. SO WE GAVE OUR REASONS. IT'S A LEGAL PROCESS THAT WE GO THROUGH. IT IS CONTROVERSIAL. WE KNEW IT WAS CONTROVERSIAL. WE WERE HERE TO ENABLE INTENSIFICATION. THAT'S WHAT TAURANGA NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO DO ` AS WELL AS GROWING OUT, IT HAS TO GROW UP. WHAT ABOUT CONGESTION CHARGING? AND CONGESTION CHARGING ` WELL, ACTUALLY, CONGESTION CHARGING, IT'S MORE VARIABLE TIME AND PRICE. BUT THAT IS CONGESTION CHARGING. WELL, YES. PEOPLE THINK OF CONGESTION CHARGING... YEAH. PEOPLE THINK WE... SO, YES, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THAT FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS. WE'VE DONE A PROOF OF CONCEPT. WE TOOK IT OUT TO THE PUBLIC. THEY HATED IT. AND I DON'T BLAME THEM. I DON'T THINK WE PRESENTED IT WELL. AND I DON'T THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THAT INSTEAD OF PAYING PETROL TAXES, YOU WOULD PAY FOR THE USE OF THE ROAD, BY USING IT. IT'S A USER-PAYS SYSTEM. SO IT'S A USER-PAYS SYSTEM. AND WE DIDN'T EXPLAIN WELL THAT OUR PROPOSITION TO THE GOVERNMENT WAS THAT THE MONEY WOULD THEN COME BACK TO TAURANGA TO BE USED IN UPGRADING THEIR ROADS. BECAUSE AT THE MOMENT, TWO OF THE COUNTRY'S THREE TOLL ROADS ARE HERE IN TAURANGA. AND TAURANGA PEOPLE QUITE RIGHTLY FEEL THEY'RE PAYING FOR USING THOSE TWO ROADS NOW. NO ONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY IS PAYING FOR ROADS LIKE THAT. AND YOU DRIVE THROUGH HAMILTON AND YOU SEE WHAT THEY GOT, AND THEY'RE NOT PAYING. TRANSMISSION GULLY ` THAT'S NOT PAYING. SO TAURANGA PEOPLE ARE A BIT ANGRY OR WORRIED THAT THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE HAVING TO PAY. AFTER THE BREAK ` IS LOCAL DEMOCRACY KIND OF BROKEN? WE ASK IF A DIFFERENT MODEL FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT WOULD ULTIMATELY BE BETTER FOR NEW ZEALAND. AFTER THREE YEARS RUNNING THE CITY, TAURANGA'S COMMISSIONERS DIDN'T WANT TO HAND OVER ALL OF THEIR POWER. BUT DESPITE RECOMMENDING A TRANSITIONARY HYBRID MODEL WITH A MIX OF ELECTED COUNCILLORS AND COMMISSIONERS, LOCAL GOVERNMENT MINISTER SIMEON BROWN REJECTED THE CALL FROM HIS FORMER COLLEAGUE AND ANNOUNCED TAURANGA WOULD RETURN TO A FULL DEMOCRACY. AS A FORMER DEPUTY MAYOR, ELECTORATE MP AND CABINET MINISTER, I ASKED ANNE TOLLEY ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE IN GOVERNING WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT RE-ELECTION. I MEAN, I'VE HAD A LOT OF POTENTIAL CANDIDATES COME AND TALK TO ME AND ASK THAT SAME QUESTION ` WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? WELL, ACTUALLY, IN MANY WAYS, THERE ISN'T A LOT OF DIFFERENCE, BECAUSE IF YOU ARE A GOOD POLITICIAN, A REPRESENTATIVE POLITICIAN, YOU SHOULD BE DOING YOUR BEST, EVEN IF IT MIGHT COST YOU YOUR JOB. BUT DO POLITICIANS DO THAT? SOME. SOME DO. SOME DO. I MEAN, I'VE HAD TO GO BACK TO MY ELECTORATE A NUMBER OF TIMES AND SAY, 'I KNOW THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU... 'IT'S GOING TO AFFECT US IN A DIFFERENT WAY, AND IT'S NOT... 'I'VE ARGUED OUR CASE, BUT IN THE END, 'I'VE HAD TO VOTE FOR THE BEST THING.' SO MY ADVICE IS ` BE HONEST AND TELL PEOPLE YOU'VE HAD TO VOTE AGAINST THAT, BUT REALLY, IF YOU'RE DOING YOUR JOB RIGHT, YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO LOOK YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR AND SAY, 'YEP, I DID THE BEST I COULD FOR TAURANGA.' OK, COMPARE IT TO YOUR PREVIOUS ROLES, THOUGH ` IN A WAY, DOES IT MAKE IT EASIER? YES, IT MAKES IT EASIER TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS, TO MAKE THE HARD DECISIONS. OK. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF A HARD DECISION THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO MAKE THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MORE DIFFICULT HAD YOU BEEN AN ELECTED OFFICIAL? PROBABLY THE PLAN CHANGE 33. RIGHT. KNOWING THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF OPPOSITION. DENSITY IN MT MAUNGANUI. YEP, YEP. INFRASTRUCTURE, FUNDING AND FINANCE` AND THE OTHER` SORRY, THE OTHER THING IS, IT MAKES IT EASIER WHEN YOU'VE MADE A DECISION, AND YOU KNOW IT'S THE RIGHT DECISION ` AND WE HAD TWO YEARS. WHEN WE ARRIVED, WE WERE REDOING CAMERON RD THAT THE COUNCIL HAD ALREADY STARTED; IT WAS A SHOVEL-READY PROJECT. AND ACTUALLY, WE MANAGED IT BADLY, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF OPPOSITION TO IT, AND A LOT OF PRESSURE WOULD HAVE COME ON US POLITICALLY TO STOP THAT. AND WE DIDN'T BECAUSE WE KNEW IT WAS RIGHT. IT WAS PART OF RESHAPING. IT WAS A... YOU KNOW, IT WAS TRANSFORMING THAT PART FOR 15,000 MORE PEOPLE LIVING ALONG THERE, AND SO IT DOES MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU TO STICK TO YOUR DECISION THAT'S BEEN MADE FOR THE RIGHT REASONS. INFRASTRUCTURE, FUNDING AND FINANCE... YES. ...IS AN ISSUE PLAGUING COUNCILS AROUND THE COUNTRY. YOU WERE THE FIRST COUNCIL, I BELIEVE, TO MAKE A SPECIAL PURPOSE VEHICLE UNDER THE INFRASTRUCTURE FUNDING AND FINANCE ACT. ARE COUNCILS TOO DEPENDENT ON CENTRAL GOVERNMENT FUNDING? UM, NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT. I THINK IT'S MORE THAT... PARTICULARLY` WELL, THE TRANSPORT FUNDING, WHICH IS A HUGE PART OF ANY COUNCIL ` DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE A RURAL OR URBAN ` IS ON A DIFFERENT TIMELINE AND A DIFFERENT PROCESS, AND IT'S A BIT OF A LOTTERY AT TIMES. HOW HAS THAT NOT BEEN CORRECTED YET? IT'S JUST BIZARRE. IT IS BIZARRE. SO YOU'RE NEVER QUITE CERTAIN WHEN YOU SET YOUR BUDGET THAT YOU'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY GET THE MONEY FROM CENTRAL GOVERNMENT FOR YOUR ROADING, WHICH IS A CRITICAL PART OF YOUR PLAN. AND THEN THE COST OF GROWTH, I DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND IT. AND I'M, YOU KNOW, QUITE APOLOGETIC TO PEOPLE BECAUSE I WAS A MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THE RATEPAYER ACTUALLY CARRIES THE DEBT OF THAT. EVEN THOUGH THE DEVELOPERS PAY DEVELOPMENT CONTRIBUTIONS, THE DEBT OF IT REMAINS ON THE BOOKS, INTEREST BEING CHARGED AND ACCUMULATING. AND WE'VE JUST FINISHED ONE SUBURB HERE, GOT THE LAST DEVELOPMENT CONTRIBUTIONS IN, THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE 20 YEARS AGO. SO THAT DEBT HAS STAYED ON THE COUNCIL'S BOOKS, AND SO RATEPAYERS CARRY THAT BURDEN. SO IT'S NOT SO MUCH CENTRAL GOVERNMENT MONEY, IT'S MORE THE PROCESS AROUND GETTING FINANCE. DURING YOUR TENURE, TAURANGA'S ANNUAL CITY COUNCIL RESIDENT SURVEY RECORDED NOTABLE IMPROVED RESULTS IN TRUST, LEADERSHIP, FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT, QUALITY OF SERVICES, OVERALL SATISFACTION AND OVERALL REPUTATION. REFLECTING ON YOUR TIME, HAS THE MOVE AWAY FROM DEMOCRACY ULTIMATELY BEEN GOOD FOR TAURANGA? I THINK IT HAS, AND THAT IS A RESULT OF GOOD GOVERNANCE. THAT IS THE RESULT OF PROFESSIONAL GOVERNANCE THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES THAT MANY LOCAL GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES HAVE, IS THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOVERNANCE AND OPERATION, KNOWING... I MEAN, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU DIVE DOWN, YOU HAVE TO, BECAUSE RESIDENTS COME TO YOU WITH WAS INDIVIDUAL PROBLEMS. BECAUSE RESIDENTS COME TO YOU WITH INDIVIDUAL PROBLEMS. BUT GOOD GOVERNANCE IS ABOUT MAKING DECISIONS, MAKING SURE YOU'VE GOT THE RIGHT INFORMATION, MAKING A DECISION, AND THEN THAT COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY, AND THAT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE, BOTH TO THE WAY THE ORGANISATION WORKS, BUT ALSO TO THE WAY THE COMMUNITY SEES IT. SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, AND YOU RECALL THE OLD IDIOM THAT VOTERS ULTIMATELY GET THE REPRESENTATIVES THEY DESERVE, YOU CONSIDER THAT, WHAT, 40% OF VOTERS IN TAURANGA ACTUALLY CAST BALLOTS IN THE LAST DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS, IS OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEMOCRACY FUNDAMENTALLY BROKEN AS A MODEL? WELL, YOU KNOW, AS A BELIEVER IN DEMOCRACY, YOU HAVE TO SAY NO. BUT I HAVE SAID` I MEAN, I'VE BEEN ON RECORD ` I BELIEVE THAT THE HYBRID MODEL, WHERE YOU ELECT PEOPLE` BECAUSE YOU DO NEED LOCAL REPRESENTATION, BUT YOU'RE ABLE TO BRING IN SOME PROFESSIONAL EXPERTISE ON TO YOUR COUNCIL, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHERE WE SHOULD BE HEADING. FOR ALL LOCAL GOVERNMENT? FOR ALL LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, YEAH. YEAH. HOW WOULD THAT WORK? JUST EXPLAIN, BECAUSE THIS IS THIS IS THE PROPOSAL HOW WOULD THAT WORK? JUST EXPLAIN, BECAUSE THIS IS THE PROPOSAL YOU PUT FORWARD TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT MINISTER. YOU SUGGESTED A HYBRID MODEL WITH COMMISSIONERS AS WELL AS REPRESENTATIVE ELECTED OFFICIALS GOING FORWARD WOULD BE THE WAY TO GO ABOUT THINGS. JUST DESCRIBE TO US IN PRACTICE. THAT WAS A STEP DOWN FOR TAURANGA, BECAUSE NOWHERE ELSE HAVE WE EVER HAD AN INTERVENTION THAT JUST SUDDENLY STOPPED AND WE WALK OUT THE DOOR. UM, UH, SO... I MEAN, ENVIRONMENT CANTERBURY WAS THE OTHER ONE WHERE A HYBRID MODEL WAS IN PLACE, AND SO THAT WAS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. BUT LOOKING AHEAD` AND WE MADE A SUBMISSION TO THE FUTURE FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT THAT YES, THAT HYBRID MODEL, TO THINK ABOUT HOW YOU COULD DO THAT ` MAYBE, UM, TWO-THIRDS OF THE COUNCIL IS ELECTED. BUT TO HAVE THAT PROFESSIONAL GOVERNANCE ` PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOVERNANCE, AND OPERATIONS, WHO CAN BRING IN EXPERTISE, AND WE MADE SUGGESTIONS THAT THE COUNCIL MIGHT LOOK AT WHAT SKILLS WERE MISSING AROUND THE TABLE, UH, AND MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THROUGH TO EITHER THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT COMMISSION ` IT COULD BE A ROLE FOR THEM ` OR TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT MINISTER TO APPOINT PEOPLE, AND THEY COULD BE PEOPLE THAT ARE AGREED BETWEEN THOSE TWO, AND HAVE THEM APPOINTED. THEORETICALLY, IF THE MINISTER HAD SUPPORTED YOUR PROPOSAL, WOULD YOU HAVE STAYED ON IN THE WRONG? YES. YES, OF COURSE. YES, OF COURSE. IS THERE A SELF-SERVING ELEMENT TO THAT? NO, AND WE SAID WE WERE HAPPY TO DO IT FOR, YOU KNOW, A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME OR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OR UNTIL THE FULL ELECTIONS NEXT YEAR, AND WE'RE STILL HAPPY TO COME AND GIVE ANY ASSISTANCE TO A COUNCIL. IT WAS JUST THAT WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS A SUCCESS MOVING BACK TO DEMOCRACY, IT'S THE WORST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN TO A LOCAL GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY, IS TO HAVE TO HAVE AN INTERVENTION LIKE THAT. THEY'RE VERY RARE. IT HAS TO BE REALLY BAD BEFORE A MINISTER DOES THAT. HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN HE REJECTED THAT PROPOSAL? WELL, THAT'S THEIR... THAT'S` YOU KNOW, THAT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE. THAT'S WHY THEY'RE THE MINISTER. YOU USED TO BE THE MINISTER. I KNOW. SO SURELY YOU HAD SOME SWAY. WELL, IN FAIRNESS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE LEGISLATION PUT THROUGH THE HOUSE TO ENABLE THAT, AND IF YOU REMEMBER THE BEGINNING` THEY'RE GETTING LEGISLATION THROUGH THE HOUSE PRETTY QUICKLY AT THE MOMENT. WELL, YEAH, BUT THEY HAD THAT WHOLE RAFT OF LEGISLATION. THEY WERE SITTING IN URGENCY AND THINGS. SO WE UNDERSTOOD IT WAS UNLIKELY TO HAPPEN, BUT WE STILL HAD THE RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THE BEST RECOMMENDATION FOR TAURANGA. DO YOU THINK YOU AND THE CURRENT MINISTER ARE PERHAPS IDEOLOGICALLY MISALIGNED? UM... ON... ON THE VALUE OF A HYBRID MODEL WITH COMMISSIONERS GOING FORWARD. OH, I THINK HE... MY TAKE ON THE MINISTER IS THAT HE DEFINITELY BELIEVES IN DEMOCRACY, AND HE SEES THAT AS THE WAY FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO OPERATE. I GUESS MAYBE IT'S JUST I'VE HAD A BIT MORE EXPERIENCE IN IT. I DON'T` YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, BUT WE CERTAINLY DON'T AGREE ON THAT BECAUSE I THINK I CERTAINLY PUT A COMMISSIONER INTO THE KAIPARA COUNCIL. THEY WERE INSOLVENT AND HAD A RATES REVOLT AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS, AND THEN STEPPED IT DOWN WITH THE CROWN OBSERVER ` I THINK IT WAS A CROWN OBSERVER OR A CROWN MANAGER ` AFTERWARDS TO STEP IT DOWN, BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF THE CANDIDATES HAVE SAID, 'GOSH, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY GOOD TO BE ABLE TO SIT AROUND 'THE TABLE WITH YOU GUYS AND LISTEN TO THE QUESTIONS 'THAT YOU'RE ASKING AND HOW YOU OPERATED 'WHILST WE'RE GETTING OUR HEADS AROUND.' THIS IS A BIG, COMPLEX ORGANISATION, CAPITAL SPEND OF ALMOST $400 MILLION A YEAR. YOU DON'T PICK THAT UP OVERNIGHT. IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAID YOU BELIEVE THE CURRENT MINISTER IS A BIG BELIEVER IN LOCAL DEMOCRACY. YES. YOU SAID TO ME EARLIER IN THE INTERVIEW THAT YOU THINK ULTIMATELY TAURANGA HAS BENEFITED BY MOVING AWAY FROM DEMOCRACY. SO WHAT IS TO STOP TAURANGA IN THE COMING YEARS TO REVERT BACK TO THE DYSFUNCTION OF BEFORE? THE VOTERS. AND I'VE SAID THAT OUT IN THE PUBLIC FOR THREE YEARS ` 'IT'S IN YOUR HANDS.' THERE'S SOME FANTASTIC CANDIDATES HAVE PUT THEIR HANDS UP. UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S FABULOUS, REALLY FABULOUS. THERE'S SOME AMAZING PEOPLE THERE THAT WANT TO TAKE THE CITY FORWARD. THEY DON'T LIKE EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE. THAT'S FAIR ENOUGH. BUT THEY WANT TO KEEP GOING, AND THEY WANT TO KEEP MAKING SURE THAT TAURANGA IS A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE. AND SO IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, SAY TO VOTERS, 'IT'S IN YOUR HANDS.' DARE I SUGGEST, AS WELL AS THE TALENT YOU IDENTIFIED, THERE ARE SOME FAMILIAR FACES ` FOUR OF TAURANGA'S MAYORAL CANDIDATES ARE PREVIOUS MAYORS, COUNCILLORS OR REGIONAL COUNCILLORS; MORE THAN HALF OF THE CANDIDATES HAVE STOOD BEFORE. LET ME ASK THIS ` DO YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE FROM THE CANDIDATE NOMINATIONS AS THEY STAND THAT TAURANGA WILL AVOID THE DYSFUNCTION OF THE PAST? WELL, I'M ALWAYS A BIT OF A POLLYANNA, AND I'VE ALWAYS HAD HUGE RESPECT FOR VOTERS, AND I THINK... AND I THINK THAT'S... I THINK THAT'S THE CHANGE THAT I SEE IN TAURANGA, IS THAT THEY KNOW THAT THEY CAN EASILY SLIP BACK. IF THEY DON'T TAKE ANY ACTION, THEY CAN EASILY SLIP BACK. SO YES, I'M VERY OPTIMISTIC THAT... I HEAR IT IN THE COMMUNITY ` 'WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THOSE BAD OLD DAYS.' LOOK, GOOD ON THOSE OLD GUYS FOR PUTTING THEIR HANDS UP AGAIN, YOU KNOW. I WOULDN'T VOTE FOR THEM. WHY WOULD YOU VOTE FOR THEM SECOND TIME AROUND? BUT YOU KNOW, THEY'RE HAVING A GO, AND I ALWAYS ADMIRE ANYONE THAT PUTS THEMSELF OUT. IT IS A HARD THING TO DO, TO PUT YOURSELF OUT, TO BE JUDGED BY THE COMMUNITY ` AND I'VE BEEN BRUISED BECAUSE I'VE BEEN VOTED OUT BEFORE. SO GOOD ON THEM. BUT THERE'S SOME GREAT NEW FACES THERE, AND I'M HOPING THAT WE'LL GET A GREAT COUNCIL. THAT'S ANNE TOLLEY. VOTING FOR THE TAURANGA LOCAL BODY ELECTIONS OPENS IN TWO WEEKS AND CLOSES ON JULY 20TH. SO YOU KNOW, AS WELL AS WATCHING OUR SHOW ON TVNZ+, YOU CAN ALSO FIND ALL OF OUR INTERVIEWS ON YOUTUBE. JUST SEARCH NZ Q+A, AND WE'LL POP RIGHT UP. HEI AKUANEI` Q+A IS BACK AFTER THE BREAK. KUA MUTU. THAT'S Q+A FOR THIS WEEK. FROM THE Q+A TEAM, THANKS FOR WATCHING AND NGA MIHI KI A KOUTOU I NGA KARERE ` THANKS FOR YOUR FEEDBACK. HEI TERA WIKI ` SEE YOU NEXT SUNDAY AT 9am. CAPTIONS BY JAMES BROWN AND TOM CLARKE. CAPTIONS WERE MADE WITH THE SUPPORT OF NZ ON AIR. WWW.ABLE.CO.NZ COPYRIGHT ABLE 2024