The Lead with Jake Tapper Aired July 25, 2024 - 16:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [16:00:03] … (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:59:17] JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: …LEAD exclusive, I sat down with former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley for her very first interview since she dropped out of the 2024 presidential race in March. We discussed why she ultimately chose to endorse Donald Trump, despite the fact that she was recently his top rival in the Republican primary, questioning all sorts of things about him, including his loyalty to the U.S. Constitution. Haley also reacting to the dramatic changes on the Democratic side of the ticket. That is in fact, where we began. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TAPPER: So, so much has happened since we last sat down and talked. You dropped out of the race, you endorsed Donald Trump, you spoke at the Republican National Convention. Your father sadly passed away. Your husband, Michael, who's a major in the South Carolina National Guard, returned from a year abroad. And I want to get to all of that, but first I have to start with the news from Sunday of President Biden dropping out of the presidential race. You have always been skeptical that he could last for another four years in office. Were you surprised? … The Lead with Jake Tapper Aired July 25, 2024 - 17:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [17:00:00] … NIKKI HALEY, FORMER GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I wasn't surprised and I didn't take happiness in it. You know, I mean, I think through the whole campaign, you know, I fought for mental competency tests. I wasn't doing it to be disrespectful, I wasn't doing it to be mean, I was doing it because I think it's not just Joe Biden. There is an issue that we have in D.C. where people will go into office and they won't let go, and then their staffers and their family keep propping them up. And it's a problem for the American people. And so, I never thought he would make it to the election. I always said a vote for Joe Biden is a vote for Kamala Harris. And I think that's what's playing out. TAPPER: You also said, in addition to a vote for Joe Biden -- well, you said a vote for Joe Biden is a vote for Kamala Harris. You also have said, if we nominate Donald Trump, I guarantee you we're going to have President Kamala Harris. And you've said whichever party that retires it's 80-year-old candidate first is going to be the one that wins the election. Do you still feel that way? HALEY: I think that, you know, look, the Democrats are very smart to put in a younger candidate. I think that that's what America has craved. But I think what you look at is they put in the weakest candidate they could put in. You look at the fact that Kamala, I mean, she had one job that was to deal with illegal immigration and the border. She didn't do it. She was the most progressive senator that we had, next to Bernie Sanders. You can see it playing out, whether it's the fact that she didn't show up at Bibi's speech yesterday, whether it's the fact that she pushed for all this government spending, whether it's the fact that when she was in California, the most liberal state, there was no tax she didn't proposed. There was nothing that she didn't want to see. All of her -- the things she's doing from not wanting fracking to not wanting oil drilling, all of these things are incredibly liberal. And she is much more progressive than Joe Biden ever was. So, the fact that they put in Kamala Harris, kudos for putting in someone younger, the fact that you put in one of the most liberal politicians you probably could have put in, it's going to be an issue. TAPPER: One of the things that Republican congressional leaders have had to tell their members is to not attack her on the basis of her gender or her race, to go after her on policy issues, as you just did. We've heard members of Congress call her DEI hire, suggesting that, you know, she's an affirmative action pick. How do you respond to that? HALEY: It's not helpful. It's not helpful. Look, I mean, we're talking about a liberal senator who literally has not accomplished very much. And what she was given, she didn't do much with. You don't need to talk about what she looks like or what gender she is to talk about that. The American people are smarter than that. Talk about the fact that, you know, she doesn't believe in fracking. Tell that to the voters in Pennsylvania. Talk about the fact that she doesn't want to talk about paying down debt. She wants to increase taxes. Tell that to the American people. Talk about the fact that consumer prices have gone up 19 and a half percent since Joe and Kamala were in office. Talk about the fact that she's always sided with the Palestinian protests instead of our friend Israel. There are so many issues we can talk about when it comes to Kamala Harris that it doesn't matter what she looks like, it matters what she said, what she's fought for, and the lack of results that she's had because of it. TAPPER: Speaking of Israel, you noted that she wasn't at Benjamin Netanyahu's speech to Congress. Neither was Senator JD Vance, Donald Trump's running mate. Both of them had campaigned commitments or I guess Vice President Harris is actually was an official commitment. But either way, they both had commitments. Should that be held against Senator Vance, too? HALEY: Well, first of all, she was official. She should have been there. Israel is one of our strongest allies. What does that say to the people of Israel? More importantly, what did you just tell the Iranians? Because they love what they're getting right now if she won't even do her official job there. Should JD Vance have been there? Yes, of course. We need to show a united front when it comes to Israel. Israel is fighting America's enemies. We now know that the protests that are happening all over the country, Iran is pushing that. I went to Israel, Jake, right after I suspended the campaign. They had asked me to come. I wanted to do it. What happened on October 7 was one of the most horrific, brutal, I don't even know what you call it, disasters that we've ever seen. I went into those kibbutz. You see, they went -- they beheaded people, they burned people, they burned babies alive. They separated kids from their parents. Every house went to or what was left of their house, it smelled of death. Like, it was horrible what they did. TAPPER: Still, months later, it's still -- HALEY: Well, I mean, you just felt it. Everything about it just had a horrific feel to it. We went to the concert site. [17:05:03] TAPPER: The Nova concert, yes. HALEY: The Nova concert. And the idea that these girls, and I talked to some survivors, the kids, the first thing they do is what any of our kids do. They picked up the phone and they called their parents and said, what do we do? And their parents said, get under the dead bodies. Pretend that you're dead. The fact that they left and that Hamas was waiting on the road, so even when they got in their cars, they shot them all up. The rapes and the torture that happened, this was a horrific situation. For the American people not to see that you were either looking at terrorists or you're looking at a bright light in a tough neighborhood. Americans need to pick a side, and God help us if we are choosing the side of rapists and murderers instead of choosing a side of a democracy that is trying to fight for their people's freedom and their very survival to exist. TAPPER: So changing subjects for a bit, if I can. It was pretty big news when you spoke at the Republican National Convention and officially endorsed former President Trump. In the past, having covered you, you have called Mr. Trump toxic, unhinged, diminished. You said he lacks moral clarity. What made you endorse him? HALEY: I said a lot of tough things about him in the campaign. He said a lot of tough things about me in the campaign. That's what happens in campaigns. I don't think we need to apologize or take anything back. That's -- I don't plan on doing that. What I will tell you, though, is the choice that we have at the time was Trump and Biden. Now it's Trump and Harris. Regardless, I know where Trump stands on policies. I don't agree with him 100 percent of the time, and I said that. But I know when it comes to energy dominance, I know when it comes to national security, I know when it comes to keeping our enemies at bay, I know he's strong, and I know he'll continue to do that. I know hell deal with the border. You put that against Harris. I don't know that I agree with even 10 percent of her. She didn't do anything to fight what's happening at the border. And if anything, she wants to decriminalize it. She's been against -- she was one of the proponents for defunding the police in a time where our streets are ridden with crime. TAPPER: I don't think she was a proponent of defunding the police, although I do think she's expressed sympathy with the idea. HALEY: She said supportive comments about the defund the police movement at the time. And that makes you wonder, well, where is she on crime? Well, if you look at where Biden-Harris have been on crime, they haven't done very much. They haven't done anything on the border. You look at the national security, I said this in the speech, Russian aggression against Ukraine during Obama and during Biden. Afghanistan fell under Biden and Harris. Those two things, if I'm looking at substance, I am going to agree with Trump more than I'm going to agree with Harris. And frankly, what bothers me is I worry more about what happens between now and January 20 than anything else because our enemies know we're the weakest we've ever been and the most distracted we've ever been. TAPPER: I want to get to Russia and China in a second. But just sticking on the Trump issue for one second, one area where you've expressed concern, and you're certainly not the only one, is about Donald Trump's commitment to the U.S. Constitution, which is, in fact, what he takes an oath to preserve, protect, and defend. You said -- you were asked, do you think Donald Trump would follow the constitution if you were elected to a second term? And you said, I don't know. Isn't that pretty damning? HALEY: I hope that he does. I hope that any president would follow the Constitution. And the American people need to demand that. We need to always fight for that. That is what's real. That's what keeps this country together. And so, yes, I hope that everything he does is in line with the Constitution. And I hope that Congress enforces that. And I hope that everybody he surrounds himself with enforces that. But I think the American people need to demand it. TAPPER: After your speech at the Republican National Convention, former governor Chris Christie said you only showed up because you want to run for president in 2028. He said that you were unified by your own tortured ambition. What's your response to that? HALEY: I think its funny coming from a guy who didn't even play in Iowa and couldn't even get out of New Hampshire. I think he's bitter to anybody that he's ever dealt with. And I think it's comical that it's coming from a person who in 2016 literally did that one thing, fell all over himself for Trump to get a position in an administration, and he still didn't get it. So, look, I wish Chris well, I think he's got a lot of tortured demons inside of him. But I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it and everything that he said could not be more wrong. TAPPER: When you announced that you were going to vote for Donald Trump, you got a lot of pushback from Republicans who supported you. What do you say to them? What do you say to them when they say that they were with you? They agreed that Donald Trump is bad for the Republican Party, bad for the country, and they thought that you agreed with them and they feel like you sold out. [17:10:13] HALEY: I didn't get a lot of pushback from Republicans. What I will tell you is I have a great respect for those who stood with me. I am incredibly grateful. These were people who saw the fact that our border was out of control. They saw that debt was out of control and our kids are going to pay for it. They wanted national security that was going to keep America safe. They believed in mental competency tests. They believed in term limits. And they wanted Americans to have a choice for someone they could be proud of. That was what we fought for. That's what we did. And millions joined us. And so I wanted what they wanted. We were in it together. And I loved the fight that we had together. But we've been given a choice, it's Trump or it's Harris. And so what I did was I said, this is who I will be voting for. I also said I don't agree with Trump 100 percent of the time, and I don't expect them to agree with Trump 100 percent of the time to vote for him. But I wanted them to think about it through my eyes and how I thought about it. Since then, we've heard from a lot of people who appreciated my making the case for it. And you know, I'm going to continue to be true to myself and true to what I fought for, and I'm going to continue to fight for that regardless of whether it's in a position or not, I'm always going to fight for the country that we all love. TAPPER: Are you going to campaign with him if he asks you? HALEY: There's no plans right now to campaign with him. But what I did think is I owed the millions of people who supported me. They deserve to know who I'm going to vote for and why I'm going to vote for them. And that's what I did. TAPPER: So you did, just again, call for a mental competency test for politicians over the age of 75. There's only one over the age of 75 currently running for president. Kamala Harris is in her fifties, like you and me, sharp as attack those of us in our fifties. Do you think Donald Trump should take a mental competency test? HALEY: I have said, and it's not just Donald Trump. I think members of Congress. Anybody. I said at the time, I don't care if you do it for 50 and up. The American people deserve to know that the people making decisions on whether we can afford our groceries, whether our border is safe, whether we support law enforcement, whether we're going to prevent war, they deserve to know that everybody's at the top of their game. That's not too much to ask. And so I strongly still stand by that, just like I stand by term limits. You know, all of these things matter. It's what gives good government. And I think we should always fight for that. TAPPER: Coming up, Nikki Haley on Donald Trump's vice presidential pick, JD Vance and Vance's controversial stance on future USA to Ukraine. More from this exclusive interview next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:16:41] TAPPER: And we're back with more from our exclusive interview with Governor Nikki Haley who spoke to us for the very first time since ending her presidential bid against her former boss, Donald Trump, in the Republican primary. Haley, of course, served as U.S. ambassador to the United Nation for about half of Trump's term as president, giving her a front row seat to his foreign policy decisions. We discussed what a second Trump presidency might mean for Ukraine or NATO. So let's turn to Russia and Ukraine. And this was one of the biggest points of difference between you and President Trump, who has expressed an ambivalence about NATO, who I don't know where he stands on continued aid to Ukraine. His vice presidential pick, JD Vance, is one of the leading skeptics of continued aid to Ukraine in 2022. He said, I don't really care what happens to Ukraine. Do you have any concerns about what's going to happen when and if Donald Trump takes office when it comes to Ukraine and Russia? And do you think JD Vance represents the present and the future of the Republican Party on these foreign policy issues? HALEY: Well, I worked alongside President Trump at the time on all of these issues. And I can tell you he was actually very hard on Russia, whether it was sanctions, whether it was expelling diplomats, you know, all of those things. So I saw what he did. I also know that he was the one that ordered arms and equipment to go to Ukraine even before he left office. So the record that he has was one that was strong. It was one of deterrence. It was one where Putin didn't invade. Obama, they invaded Crimea. You look at Biden, a lot happened. Not only did Afghanistan fall, but you saw Russia become much more aggressive, and we've seen China become more aggressive. I know that Trump kept dictators at bay, and that's what I hope he will continue to do. TAPPER: You're not worried at all about NATO? HALEY: I will always be vocal about the fact that America can never be so arrogant to think we don't need friends. We need a lot of friends. And to get a friend, you have to be a friend. We need to have the backs of our allies. With Ukraine, there should be no space between us. I don't think we need to give them cash. But they have asked for the equipment and ammunition they need to win. We can't allow any Russian aggression. We can't allow any Russian appeasement. When it comes with Israel, the same thing. We need to make sure that we know the difference between terrorists and those that are our friends. This is about moral clarity. Standing with Ukraine, standing with Taiwan, standing with Israel, that's moral clarity. That's what I want President Trump to have. I will always be vocal about that. Our NATO allies, should they be doing more? We should always push them to do more. TAPPER: Sure. HALEY: But we should always let them know that we're going to stand strong together because when we do that that's what makes Russia nervous. That's what makes China nervous. That's what makes Iran nervous. And that's what we have to do to deter and prevent war going forward. TAPPER: I'm sure you saw that the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, who, you know, praised Trump's pick of JD Vance. HALEY: You know, I think that there's a division in the Republican Party on where we should be on foreign policy, especially, you know, we've seen that play out with Ukraine. What I will tell you is when Russia gets a little bit, they want a little bit more and a little bit more. And so, that should send a warning sign to Trump and to Vance to go and show no, we're going to stand for America, we're not going to stand for Russia, and we're going to stand with Ukraine because that's the right thing to do. I hope they do that. [17:20:08] TAPPER: And you've talked about how China looks at how the United States deals with Ukraine and Russia in terms of their context of Taiwan and wanting to seize Taiwan. Do you think the Chinese looking at what Trump and Vance, their positions on Ukraine, are anticipating, oh, looks like they're not going to support Ukraine, maybe we should -- maybe we should take Taiwan. HALEY: I think the Chinese are looking at what Biden and Harris did. I think the Chinese and the Russians saw when Afghanistan fell that we were just giving it up. I think they saw that when Russia and Ukraine got into their war, what happened? America kind of stepped back and started having this debate on whether we should even be standing with Ukraine. I think Russia wanted a distraction and we saw Israel and Iran. And now seeing that the vice president wouldn't even stand with one of our best friends in a speech. And now there's this issue on are we going to fight and be there for Israel? It's an unthinkable thing that Biden and Harris started. It's something that Trump and Vance will need to fix. Because the only way democracy wins is when we push off dictators and we fight against the tyranny. Right now, were not being a good friend. Look at Ukraine. We were the ones that told them to give up their nukes. TAPPER: Back during the Clinton years. HALEY: You look back in the 90s -- TAPPER: Yes. HALEY: -- we were the ones that told them to give up their nukes because we said we would have their back. TAPPER: Right. HALEY: Are we having their back? That's the -- that's what I would say to anyone. TAPPER: I'm not here to defend the Biden administration's policy on anything. But is it not just empirically true that they have given a tremendous amount of funding to Ukraine and a tremendous amount of funding to Israel for both of these conflicts? HALEY: I think -- but it's been delayed. You look at Ukraine, it's been waiting and waiting. And Republicans were part to blame on that. When it comes to Israel, I don't understand at all what Biden and Harris did. The idea that they would go and pull back something that they had promised is -- TAPPER: You're talking about the big dumb bombs. HALEY: Yes. It's tone death. Because here, when America -- when Israel's fighting America's enemies, these same enemies that say death to America, the same ones that are on college campuses funding these protests, why are we going to allow that to happen. And so, you have to look at what Biden and Harris record is before you look at what you're going to ask Trump and Vance to do, because first you've got to look at the differences. There's a major difference there. And to me, keeping America safe is our number one priority. And right now, it's not about Republican or Democrat. it's about is America ready to be a friend to those who have been friends to us. And do we have the moral clarity to see who our enemies are and make sure we do everything we can to prevent war in the process. TAPPER: So how do you respond to those who say, look, Netanyahu is not even popular in Israel? I mean, I think it's like 70 percent disapproval of the Israeli public against Netanyahu. We have hostage families criticizing Prime Minister Netanyahu for not doing enough. And there are people who love Israel dearly who are very concerned about how Netanyahu is -- how he's prosecuting this war against Hamas in terms of all the innocent people who have been killed and also what he's allowing to happen on the West bank. Surely people can be critical of Netanyahu and still love Israel. HALEY: Well, I will be the first one to say Americans should not weigh in on who is the head of Israel. We just need to support Israel regardless of who the head is. But I will tell you what I saw when I went to Israel. On the morning of October 7, when those people in the kibbutz looked out at those fields at 640 in the morning, 3,000 members of Hamas came in, took over their neighborhoods, took over the concert site, butchered people, robbed from them, burned people alive and took people hostages. You know who joined them? Thousands of Palestinian citizens. That's what no one's talking about. They looted, they murdered, and they helped. And in many cases, and I talked to hostage survivors, they took them back and sold them to Hamas. So why would Netanyahu or anyone in Israel trust Hamas or the Palestinians? And Hamas has said, we're going to do it again. So look at it from the perspective of an Israeli. They don't want October 7 to happen again. They want the hostages to come home. By the way, eight American hostages there, five that we know are alive, but all eight need to come home. Why are we not obsessed with those hostages right now? Why are we not obsessed with making sure it doesn't happen? But we should not be arguing with Israel when they are so worried about trusting Palestinians or making sure that Hamas never rules Gaza again. Those are fair things. [17:25:13] If that had happened to America, we would be twice as angry. Everybody ran to Israel's defense on October 7. But now that Israel's fighting back, you're going to condemn them? It's nothing different than America would do if were in the same place. And I think in order to be a friend, we have to assume, what if that was us? TAPPER: Coming up, what Nikki Haley says now about Donald Trump mocking her husband's military deployment during the Republican primary race. More from our exclusive interview, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) …