The Lead with Jake Tapper Aired July 31, 2024 - 17:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [17:00:03] JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, never before seen evidence just released relating to their horrific terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. It seems to be evidence that victims families have been pleading for to be released for years. So are they closer to any answers? Well, the head of 9/11 justice who lost his father in the attacks is going to join us. Plus, one of the political leaders of Hamas assassinated. It's a move the White House says, well, complicate efforts to get a ceasefire in hostage deal negotiated with Hamas. And it comes just hours after a top Hezbollah commander was killed. We're live on the ground in the Middle East with new details. And leading this hour, Donald Trump making a play for Black voters, speaking at a conference of Black journalists this afternoon. But the interview was not friendly with the president -- former president repeatedly calling one of the moderators rude, falsely claiming that Kamala Harris, quote, "happened to turn Black" a few years ago. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've known her a long time, indirectly, not directly, very much. And she was always of Indian heritage and she was only promoting Indian heritage. I didn't know she was Black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn Black. And now she wants to be known as Black. So I don't know, is she Indian or is she Black? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is always identified as a Black woman when she historically been to college. TRUMP: But you know what, I respect either one. I respect either one, but she obviously doesn't. (END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Again, just to reiterate, she went to Howard University. Kamala Harris has always identified as Black. Let's bring in CNN anchor Sara Sidner, "New York Times" White House Correspondent Zolan Kanno-Youngs. Zolan, you were in the room for this Q and A, what was the response from the journalists, the audience there like? ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You definitely, Jake, you know, heard some gasps in the crowd at that point, particularly when the former president questioned the race, the identity, the ethnicity of the vice president. That's like, just to paint the picture here, I mean, this is NABJ. This is the National Association of Black Journalists. So, you have many Black women in the crowd as well who are hearing, you know, the former president at this point, who had already been disrespectful at that point to one of the moderators, ABC's Rachel Scott. And you haven't basically sharing a stage with three Black women asking respectful questions, but good driven questions, and then turning to questioning the race of the vice president. I mean, there were definitely some that were surprised in the crowd. And you heard that. And look, that was only one piece of this really unusual event thus far in the campaign. The former president also kind of went back to his usual playbook of spreading falsehoods about immigration, trying to almost, you know, point to, you know, soaring border crossings and illegal immigration, almost as a way to sort of pit the immigrant community against the Black community. He once again was asked about his Black jobs comment during the debate. He dodged questions on his pick for vice president for his running mate, JD Vance. So just -- I mean, the -- throughout the room there was tension kind of hanging over the room beforehand as journalists and attendees just prepared for this event. But that, that one where he questioned the vice president's identity will definitely go down as one of the more sort of moments we look back on when reflecting on this. TAPPER: And Sara Sidner, the Trump campaign has issued a statement from Trump campaign chair Lynne Patton or a spokesperson for the campaign, Lynne Patton, attacking the media for the event, saying, in part, members of the media need to make a decision and answer if their goal is to unite the country or further divide us. Because based on the unhinged and unprofessional commentary directed toward President Trump by certain members of the media, many media elites certainly or clearly want to see us remain divided. This is unacceptable. It goes on to say, today's biased and rude treatment from certain hostile members of the media will backfire massively. You would think that the media would have learned something from their repeat episodes of fake outrage ever since President Trump first came down the escalator in 2015 but some refused to get it. This will be their undoing in 2024. That's from Lynne Patton, senior advisor. That's not the whole statement, but that's some of it, Sara. SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So the media's job is to ask questions. And sometimes the questions are difficult. They're difficult questions to answer. They are asking the questions on behalf of the public. That is the literal job of the journalists here. And the question that was asked in the very beginning wasn't a happy question, but it was a question that was on everyone's mind, both in that room and in the African American community in particular. And the question was, how do Black folks trust you when you have had someone inside of your Mar-a-Lago who was a white supremacist, Nick Fuentes, when you have said things to Black journalists to their faces, particularly Black female journalists, calling them stupid or calling their questions stupid or dumb? So these were questions that really were on the minds of the folks in the room and outside of the room, especially here in Chicago. [17:05:15] And so a candidate coming into a room of journalists and expecting to be high fived and be sort of uniting, that's just not reality. And I think that -- if that's what they were expecting, they came to the wrong place. This is a room full of journalists. And by the way, for all the controversy surrounding whether or not Donald Trump should or should not have been here, whether or not NABJ should have reached out, NABJ since 1976, has been inviting presumptive nominees for the presidency here. And Donald Trump accepted. And the room was absolutely packed. There was not an empty chair in that room. These are all either prospective journalists or aspiring journalists or journalists who have been in the game a very long time. The questions that were asked were pointed, but they were certainly questions that the public would like to hear. The response to that is the literal job of those inside that room. Now, it was clear that Donald Trump felt attacked by the very first question. And from that moment forward, things derailed every time Rachel Scott from ABC would ask a question, he would go on the attack towards her instead of answering the question. But there were a lot of different questions that were asked. And one of the ones that got probably one of the biggest gas, beyond trying to question Kamala Harris race and who she considered herself to be, it was a question about January 6, and it was a question about whether or not he would pardon those who took part in the injuring of police officers, 140 police officers, to be exact, during the attack of the Capitol. And he said he would, if they are innocent. And the retort from the journalists there was, well, they were convicted by a court of law. And his response was, well, you know, those courts, and he started down that pathway. That got a bit of a reaction as well. But remember, again, this is a room for a journalist. This was not the general public generally let inside to this. And so, most of the responses were muted. They were listening to try to understand what his responses to the questions would be so that they could then go out and report some of what he said, Jake. TAPPER: Yes. And Isaac, this, I don't know the whole response that Senator JD Vance, Donald Trump's running mate, has issued, but this seems a better response from where I sit. He said, "President Trump walked right into the NABJ," the National Association of Black Journalist, "conference and showed he had the courage to take tough questions, while Kamala Harris continues to hide from any scrutiny or unfriendly media like the coward she is." I don't know about the coward part of that. But the idea that, look, Donald Trump went into the lion's den and took questions from journalists and Vice President Harris has been the presumptive nominee now for, whatever, nine or 10 days, and she hasn't done an interviewer taking questions, that seems fair game. EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Sure. That's a process question, right? That's how they're doing -- TAPPER: But it's not attacking the media or changing the subject for what he said. DOVERE: Right. Sure. But what the former president running to be president again said is important here. It's important what he said of the things we've talked about so far. He was asked actually about JD Vance and whether Vance was ready to be president on day one, and he did not answer yes. He said that Vance has done a bunch of impressive things and the vice president doesn't matter, right? Put all of these things together, and this was more that we've heard from Donald Trump on a lot of topics here. A lot of important topics on race, on Kamala Harris, who, by the way, he, I think the entire time, only referred to as Kamala by her first name, never Harris. TAPPER: I think he mispronounced it also. DOVERE: Yes, he did. TAPPER: He called it Kamala or something. DOVERE: Yes. TAPPER: It's -- for everybody out there, it's Kamala like the -- like a comma in punctuation, Kamala, just clearing that up. So nobody should have any problems going forward. Go ahead. I'm sorry. DOVERE: No, I think that's an important public service announcement, apparently at this point. But we got a lot of Donald Trump here and actually a lot more of Donald Trump than we've gotten at any point since the debate. TAPPER: Yes. DOVERE: Because he has been doing interviews with people who are pretty clearly in his corner. TAPPER: Yes. DOVERE: And the other thing that I think is important about what happened today is, look, we don't know whether there will be another debate. He has been saying no and Harris has been trying to goad him into it. But if it does happen, it will be Donald Trump on stage with a woman of color trying to figure out that dynamic. We saw a little bit of what happens when three women of color are on stage with him and ask him pointed questions and put him on defense. And if that's the preview for it, then I'm sure that in the Harris headquarters, they're pretty pleased with what came out of it. TAPPER: And Zolan, Mr. Trump also did not seem to give a clear answer when he was asked about Republicans calling Harris a DEI candidate, a diversity candidate. What was your take on that? [17:10:02] KANNO-YOUNGS: No, he didn't. I mean, it was sort of the same sort of dodging that we've heard often when he's asked a pointed question, like he was on that stage. Instead of answering the question directly, he instead resort to being combative with the reporter on -- with one of the moderators. And, you know, that type of combative sort of nature and back and forth, maybe that is sort of energizing for his base. I think that's been shown to sort of point it back and attack the media. But, you know, as this campaign continues to sort of point to poll numbers showing that he's making inroads, particularly with Black men, and is trying to also win over independents and also suburban women, just -- it's tough to realize how sort of showing that kind of disrespect to a moderator on stage and three Black women in questioning vice president's identity as well is going to help you in that pursuit of trying to, you know, reach voters outside of your base. TAPPER: Sara, what did attendees of the NABG conference -- NABJ conference have to say after the event? SIDNER: There was a lot of head shaking and disappointment. I think disappointment is probably one of the very strong emotions because they were hoping that perhaps, maybe they would get some robust answers to the questions that particularly the African American community would like the answers to. They didn't get that. They got a lot of going around the question, they got a lot of avoiding the question and a lot of attacks on the moderators, but not substantive answers to many of the questions asked. Although, you know, he should be given credit for showing up into a place where he was going to get some hard questions that any candidate should be able to field and to answer. And there is also a lot of consternation, to be honest with you, about whether or not this was the right thing to do without having both candidates here, whether or not to go forward. But, you know, look, if someone could potentially become the next president of the United States, any journalist is going to want to take that opportunity to ask questions. And in particular, the Black community has some very specific questions. And one of the things that I think he could have done that he didn't, it didn't seem he did his homework on some of the questions asked, particularly one asked about Sonya Massey, the woman who was a mother killed in her own home after calling police to help her, to protect her, and ended up dying within seconds of what no one can figure out why the officer responded that way. He was fired. But he said, I don't know, really about this case, but I think maybe, and it was like, well, would you give him immunity, you've talked about giving police immunity, and he sort of waffled on that question. But he didn't see that he had done his homework on questions that would be pretty obvious for a candidate to come into an NABJ, a National Association of Black Journalists, to have to be able to answer. So, disappointment was probably, and frustration probably the two big emotions in the room. TAPPER: So, one last question, Isaac. This whole idea of Donald Trump put forward that she identified that Vice President Harris identified as Indian until recently. I've known of Kamala Harris since she was attorney general of California, and I have never known her to identify as anything other than a Black woman. Obviously, her mother was -- I believe the mother was an immigrant from India. DOVERE: Yes. TAPPER: Her father Jamaican. So she's always been biracial, but she's always identified as a Black woman. Went to Howard University. Have you ever heard this before? Even among the fevered swamps of the Internet, the idea that she's not -- she only recently started. Did he just make that up? Where did that come from? DOVERE: I think it came from the fevered swamps of parts of the Internet. TAPPER: Yes. DOVERE: I have covered Harris for a long time, all through her presidential campaign. Last time around the vice presidency, before that when she was in the Senate, no. As you point out, it's not just her biological heritage, but the decision to go to Howard University -- TAPPER: Yes. DOVERE: -- has been raised to me for years as part of Harris's identification with the American Black experience. Even though her father was Jamaican, her mother Indian born, and she grew up part of her life in Montreal in Canada, right? TAPPER: Right. DOVERE: She lived in America, lived in America as a Black woman. And deciding at 18 that where she wanted to go to college was Howard was the first step of a very clear sense of herself as a Black woman in America. By the way, there are pictures of her in Saris and she's -- TAPPER: Sure, of course. Her mom is Indian. DOVERE: Right. Yes. And she's very proud of that heritage. Kamala is a name that comes from that heritage. But this is not true that she just turned. TAPPER: Wild stuff. All right, Isaac, Zolan and Sara, thanks, all of you, for joining us. Congressman James Clyburn widely considered one of the key figures who secured the White House for President Biden. So what does he think about the state of the Harris campaign and her impending decision about a running mate? Well, you can find out next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:18:46] TAPPER: Back with more on our 2024 lead, tonight, Vice President Kamala Harris will attend a fundraiser and Black sorority event in Houston, Texas. CNN's Arlette Saenz is live for us in Houston. Arlette, how is the Harris campaign responding to these remarks by Donald Trump at today's NABJ convention, where he questions her racial identification? ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN HOST: Well, Jake, Vice President Kamala Harris is set to land here in Houston in the coming hour. And one thing to watch very closely is whether she will decide to address these comments from former President Donald Trump questioning her identity head on. So far, the campaign has released a statement addressing Trump's appearance at NABJ overall, they've painted that as chaotic and divisive. The communications director, Michael Tyler, writing in this statement, quote, "Trump lobbed personal attacks and insults at Black journalists the same way he did throughout his presidency. Donald Trump has proven he cannot unite America, so he attempts to divide us." Now, one thing that's notable in the statement the campaign released is that they did not directly reference Trump's comments questioning Harris's identity as a Black woman. Instead, the pushback has really fallen so far to her allies. White House press secretary Karine Jean- Pierre was asked about Trump's comments in real time during today's press briefings. And here is how she responded to that comment. [17:20:11] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As a person of color, as a Black woman who is in this position that is standing before you at this podium behind this lectern, what he just said, what you just read out to me, is repulsive. It's insulting. And, you know, no one has any right to tell someone who they are, how they identify. That is no one's right. It is someone's own decisions. She is the vice president of the United States, Kamala Harris. We have to put some respect on her name, period. (END VIDEO CLIP) SAENZ: Now, Harris tonight is set to speak at an event for Sigma Gamma Rho, that is a Black sorority that is part of the Divine Nine. The venue itself could serve as a type of response in and of itself, given the group that Harris will be addressing. Part of our focus here is trying to mobilize Black women voters heading into this election, and we'll see if Harris decides to take on Trump's comments head on in her speech tonight. TAPPER: All right, Arlette Saenz in Houston for us. Thank you so much. Earlier today, before Donald Trump addressed the NABJ, I spoke with South Carolina Democratic congressman James Clyburn for an interview about the state of the 2024 race at this very important moment. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: And with me now is Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina. A recent CNN poll shows Vice President Kamala Harris making gains with Black voters in this presidential election beyond what President Biden had been able to achieve last month. Seventy-eight percent of Black voters say they will vote for Harris, 15 percent for Trump. Between April and June, 70 percent of Black voters said they supported Biden. And there was also an enthusiasm gap, noticeable. But I want you to listen to this clip. This is from an MSNBC voter panel that gets at the exact group of Black voters that Donald Trump is trying to make inroads with. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHARLES COLEMAN, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: By show of hands, how many of you know a Black man who has expressed to you that they're committed to voting for Donald Trump? For the brothers who have told you that or said that to you, has the emergence of Kamala Harris changed that for those brothers? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. (END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: All right. For, I don't know if you got to see that clip or people listening on SiriusXM, but that was an MSNBC analyst asking for Black men if they had heard of Black men that are going to vote for Donald Trump. All four raised their hands. And then asked if Kamala Harris changing the race changed that with their Black male friends, and all four said, no, it did not. What's your take on that? REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): I don't think that's true at all. The fact of the matter is, I don't believe for one moment that Donald Trump will get 15 percent of the African American vote. That's not going to happen. I know it was 13 percent they said before. I question that number as well. I don't think for one moment that her entrance into the race did not change anything with Black people. I don't know who those four people were. I could not see them, but I would hope that they do not reflect what's going on in this country. I know this. They do not reflect the Black people that I talk to. And I'm an AME, African Methods Episcopal. I'm a 33rd degree Prince Hall Mason. I'm a member of the Divine Nine, and I interact with all of these people, and I do not see 15 percent among them voting for Donald Trump. And every one of them have been energized by the entrance of Kamala Harris in this race. TAPPER: So, speaking of Vice President Harris, she is obviously going to pick her running mate imminently. What do you make of this conversation that seemed to pop up as soon as she became the likely successor to Biden on the ticket that she needed to pick a white man as her running mate? And right now, at least according to the reporting I've read everywhere, all of her top picks are white men, whether it's Governor Beshear, Secretary Buttigieg, Senator Kelly, Governor Shapiro, Governor Walz, all of them white men. What do you make of that? CLYBURN: Well, you know, we are defined in this country by our experiences, and a lot of those experiences come about because of gender and skin color. And I do believe there's nothing wrong with bouncing a ticket based upon backgrounds and experiences. That's what Barack Obama did when he picked Joe Biden because he needed someone with Joe Biden's background and experience. And to the extent to which skin color provided him with those experiences, that's what it is. [17:25:09] But when we had the election of John F. Kennedy, he picked Lyndon Baines Johnson because of a different background and experiences to bring that kind of balance to the ticket. But there's nothing wrong with that. So I've seen the so called finalists among her selections or her expectations to a point, and that's good. I think all of those people are very qualified and all of them will bring some balance to this ticket based upon backgrounds and experiences. TAPPER: Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina, always good to have you on, sir. Thank you so much. CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me. (END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Are the ceasefire and hostage talks now in even greater jeopardy? We're going to go live to the Middle East where new developments are coming in every minute. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:30:09] …