The Lead with Jake Tapper Aired August 02, 2024 - 17:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. [17:00:00] PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Phil Mattingly in for Jake Tapper. This hour, it was an incredibly emotional reunion for the Americans released from Russia, including journalist Alsu Kurmasheva, made it home just in time to celebrate her daughter's birthday today. So what comes next? I mean, what about the others unfairly held behind bars? Alsu's boss joins us live in minutes. Plus, he's accurately predicted the winner of nine of the last 10 presidential elections, so what does Allan Lichtman think is going to happen come November? Is he picking Harris or leaning towards Trump? I'll ask him live. And leading this hour, Vice President Kamala Harris on the clock just has a few days to pick her running mate if she's going to meet her self-imposed deadline of next Tuesday. And today, CNN is learning Harris will meet with top VP contenders over the weekend, with multiple sources saying that while all six of these men are in the running, Governors Shapiro and Walz, along with Senator Mark Kelly, are among the top contenders for the job. And CNN's Sunlen Serfaty reports all of this comes as Harris officially earned enough delegate votes to win the Democratic presidential nomination. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JAIME HARRISON, DNC CHAIRMAN: I am so proud to confirm that Vice President Harris has earned more than a majority of votes from all convention delegates. SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The DNC announcing Friday that Vice President Kamala Harris has won enough votes from Democratic delegates to become the party's nominee for president. I KAMALA HARRIS (D), VICE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will officially accept your nomination next week once the virtual voting period is closed, but already I'm happy to know that we have enough delegates to secure the nomination. SERFATY: And Harris is closing in on one of the most consequential decisions of her political career as she has set to debut her running mate on Tuesday in Philadelphia. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you be in Philadelphia on Tuesday by chance? JOSH SHAPIRO (R), PENNSYLVANIA GOVERNOR: I hope if we can. SERFATY: Sources tell CNN that Harris has not made a decision yet, but it's scheduled to meet with top finalists over the weekend, but most expect it to be in person. Those set to meet with Harris include Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, and Illinois Governor JB Pritzker. Some contenders shifting their schedules as Harris nears a decision. PETE BUTTIGIEG, US TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: You know, every day we have to tweak the schedule a bit because things come up, calls and meetings that we have to take care of you. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you explain what those are? BUTTIGIEG: No. SERFATY: Others joking about fellow hopefuls clearing their calendars. JB PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS GOVERNOR: Lollapalooza is happening this weekend here in Chicago, and I've heard other governors talk about how they've canceled their weekend plans. I was going to perform, of course, with Blink 182 on Sunday, but I've cancelled in order to clear my schedule. SERFATY: The meetings poised to play a critical role in her selection process. Sources tell CNN Harris is looking for a running mate that she gets along with personally and will not be a distraction. But her top consideration is electability assessing which contender will help most with Independents and swing voters, especially in the battleground states. SHAPIRO: I got a message to Donald Trump stop talking America. This is the greatest country on the face of the earth. SERFATY: Shapiro, Walz and Kelly are seen as a top contenders with Beshear also being looked out closely. Shapiro and Kelly hailing from key battleground states. SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): This is not about me. You know, this is about Donald Trump, and what a sad figure he has become. (END VIDEOTAPE) SERFATY: And Vice President Harris is spending her weekend here in Washington here at our home at the US Naval Observatory. Now, sources tell CNN that these face to face meetings that she will be holding over the next few days will be critical, a critical part of her selection process, her decision making process, and that there's the potential for other candidates to be added into the mix and the schedule. Certainly a huge few days ahead for her as she moves towards making this decision, Phil, by Tuesday. MATTINGLY: Sunlen Serfaty outside the vice president's official residence, thanks so much. We're bringing in our correspondents and political insiders for this conversation. And I will start with you, Isaac, you have a piece out that really kind of dives into something that's been floating around in Democratic circles related to Josh Shapiro. Pennsylvania governor, amazingly high favorability ratings for a swing state, but there have been questions about he is Jewish and how he decides to approach that role, particularly with support for Israel. What are that? EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER Yes. Look, Shapiro is very engaged with being publicly embracing his Jewish connections. He grew up Jewish, he's a German. He's, I think, the first governor in the history of this country to keep kosher. And there are questions when Democrats have is America ready for a Jewish vice president, even Democrats who like to think that they're open minds about everything worried about that. There are some who are supportive of him worried about a backlash of anti-Semitism conspiracy theories. But then there's this other part of it, which is that Shapiro has been very clear that he is supportive of Israel, very critical of the government led by Benjamin Netanyahu. He was also critical, though, of the protests on campuses when he felt that they dipped into anti-Semitism and anti-Semitic behavior. And that has led to some people, mostly online, but of some of the very pro-Palestinian, some would say anti-Israel parts of the liberal base such as it is. He's calling him Genocide Josh. And Genocide Josh, whatever you think of -- the Biden administration says this isn't a genocide. [17:05:08] But, number two, Josh Shapiro has never been involved in any foreign policy, anything. He's never had a vote in -- wasn't in Congress, so this is, to a lot of people, who are looking at it singling out Josh Shapiro as the notably Jewish candidate in this race and calling him Genocide Josh, in a way that feels very much with at least hinges of anti-Semitism, if not full on ant-Semitism. MATTINGLY: Yes. Looks, yes, I'm old enough to remember. I think Lieberman was a vice presidential nominee (inaudible) for like it's happened but - DOVERE: It is. Looks like that was 2000, it's only four years, but it's also the context of everything since October 7th, which has changed a lot of these conversations. MATTINGLY: That's -- and, you know, Kristen, it's been fascinating. The Trump campaign seems to look a lot of Republicans were looking at Shapiro and saying, please don't pick him. On some level, they know how important Pennsylvania has been. And the president has picked up on what Democrats have been raising some concerns about. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER US PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think if she picks Shapiro, who happens to be Jewish, she loses her little Palestinian base because she has -- because they like me because they think I'm going to bring peace to the Middle East. SEN. JD VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: There's a lot of talk is going to be this guy, Josh Shapiro from Pennsylvania, who, you know, I've seen a couple clips of him talking, he talks like Barack Obama. (END VIDEO CLIP) MATTINGLY: So Trump picking up a Palestinian base, I'm not totally sure what he means by that, but Vance also going after him as well. This feels like they're trying to make a point here. KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And Chris LaCivita, the campaign manager, actually tweeted out that he had heard from sources it was Josh Shapiro, just trying to stir the pot there but -- MATTINGLY: -- which is good source of you. HOLMES: Of course, in Biden and Harris world, yes, exactly. But obviously they are watching him very closely. There's a fear factor there. Pennsylvania is critical and Josh Shapiro has been incredibly popular. So Donald Trump himself has said he also, in that same clip, earlier said he didn't care who that -- who was picked as vice president, it didn't really matter. And I will say that Donald Trump does believe that, believes about his own running mate. He believed it before he chose JD Vance. He said, it doesn't matter I could choose anyone. I'm still the top that ticket. People are voting for me. He believes that about Harris as well. But the fact that they're zeroing in only really on Josh Shapiro says something. SERFATY: You know, Ashley, it's not rare in these moments for people to attack potential candidates. They don't want for others to put themselves out there. Canceling weekend plans to try and act like they're definitely potentially into things. I'm not naming names on that. I'm interested in your view of Shapiro. Because again, the favorability rating in Pennsylvania, it -- just is what it is. His success there seems to be pretty clear. What do you think? ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can I just also kind of point out how strange it was for JD Vance to throw an insult at Josh Shapiro, that he sounds like Barack Obama. Barack Obama is one of the most popular people in the Democratic Party. He -- to Josh Shapiro's point, his response was, he's one of the great orators of our generation. I'm not sure that's -- MATTINGLY: This was like an online thing now. ALLISON: Yes. But like it's not -- MATTINGLY: But it's like -- not that Vance needs to be told like maybe don't be so online with your -- ALLISON: Yes. MATTINGLY: -- specific cohort. But like that's what it is. ALLISON: Yes. MATTINGLY: It's like sort of attacking him for that. ALLISON: Yes but -- MATTINGLY: No, I know your point. ALLISON: What's the stress? OK. MATTINGLY: I'm not saying he makes any sense. ALLISON: Right. I'm like I know, I know it is. I'm not sure it's a good strategy. I'll give you that for free advice, OK, JD Vance, from one Ohioan to another. Look, I think I have, as a strict political tactician, elections are about votes in this country of the Electoral College, you need 270 to win. Josh Shapiro represents a state that is extremely important to win. And his favorability ratings are very high in that state. And so, it makes sense for Josh Shapiro to be on the very short list. There may be drawbacks for all of them but I have always said when you people have said most of time, to your point earlier, Kristen, is that vice presidents don't matter. I actually think they do in this moment, because even though it's not to elderly people at the top of the ticket, that conversation was introduced earlier about Kamala Harris even being Joe Biden's vice president, which is why I think people are paying more attention to the vice president. And then you have a JD Vance, who people are saying like is the next generation of Trump's MAGA Republican Party. So I think this does matter. I think it helps build a broader coalition who she picks. And I've always said put points on the board. And I think Pennsylvania, you need to put points on the board. Arizona is another state. I was also kind of hesitant. Roy Cooper has pulled out now but we haven't won North Carolina, even though I think we could win it this year, but we haven't won North Carolina since 2012 with Barack Obama. That's a triple flip -- DOVERE: 2008. ALLISON: Right, 2008. That's what -- I'm sorry, 2008. So it's a triple flip basically. It's like sometimes it's simple math, but you also need to be paying attention to your coalition and you don't want to cause an unnecessary fracture. DOVERE: It also, for Harris, I think we don't know that much about her and certainly the American public doesn't know much about her, and this will be a window into how she thinks -- ALLISON: That's right. [17:10:06] DOVERE: -- it's about defining her in a way that is different from when Joe Biden made the pick or other. MATTINGLY: Bryan, to that point, and Isaac made this point a couple of times, I think it's a really smart way for people to key on, which is you can say vice presidents don't matter. Although given what's happened in the last month, you could probably argue, perhaps now they do. But what this says about Vice President Harris and the direction that she wants to go, and the type of governing coalition she wants to put together seems like an important tattle on someone when -- BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP-PENCE CAMPAIGN: I mean, she's literate. She is that he's serious crossroads right. At the end of the day, the Democratic Party has its own serious crossroads. You know, is there really a Palestinian faction of the party that's growing, it's expanding, that's going to be hurting the party go forward, and how do they respond to sort of a Jewish vice president. That's her first difficult decision. And if she doubles downs on the left, that almost disqualifies her for being a mainstream candidate, because she needs something to numb the view that she's a San Francisco liberal. And so, Shapiro is probably the best one that that does it but it also creates conflict within her governing base. I mean, you got the progressives, the lefties, who are just completely opposed to everything he stands for, and they're fighting against him right now. So from our standpoint, you know, we want to see what fight she's willing to pick, because it'll tell her who she wants to be at the end of the day. MATTINGLY: In the four presidents, what is a Palestinian faction? LANZA: Yes, the protesters, you see all the protesters -- MATTINGLY: But they're Americans. LANZA: Sure, but they're rooting for Palestine, at the end of the day, over Israel. And Israel, you have American citizens who are kidnapped, you have American citizens were killed, and you have factions of those people in the United States who are actually rooting for the people who are responsible, or at least partly responsible for the deaths of those Americans. That base is only expanding the Democratic Party, and you have Republican politics are highlighting who actually think it's a danger. ALLISON: I think I would -- that's not my interpretation of what the protests were about. I think they protested the people. Sure, there might have been a few folks who were in the extreme, but many of them want it peace. They want it for children not to be killed and for innocent civilians not to be murdered in response to what happened on October 7th. And not all of them are Palestinians that were protesting. There are people from the broad Democratic coalition. There are Jewish Americans who are protesting what's happening in the Middle East right now. I think that this is an opportunity. And I also just want to be really careful with saying that because you are Muslim, or because you're Palestinian, you would not be supportive of a Jewish candidate. And I don't think that's what you're saying, but I want it -- we need to be careful about painting broad strokes. That is what we are working in fighting against. We do not want to be demonizing people because of their beliefs. We want people to be able to express them. Kamala Harris has an opportunity, though, to start a conversation in this country to really start to bring people back together to identify what her pathway would be for with the conflict in the Middle East, and really show her chops as a leader and picking her vice president will be important. But I don't want to cast the protest is like all anti-Israel. And I think they're -- DOVERE: It feels very anti-American when they're burning American flags. ALLISON: That is not acceptable, I will say that. DOVERE: And also some math here that people can think about, 730,000 people in Michigan voted uncommitted in the primary. ALLISON: Yes. DOVERE: Those are people who were protesting the Biden-Harris policy on Israel, which was supportive of Israel, right? There are -- Josh Shapiro has won record breaking victories in Pennsylvania but against weak opponents. There are also, and certainly not all the Jewish voters are supportive of where Shapiro is or what he is on Israel, but there are more Jewish voters in most of the battleground states than there are -- than the margin of victory was in 2020. MATTINGLY: I wanted to ask you -- I'm going to ask you to do it real quick, and I'm going to be yelled at for doing this. You the best sources in our world on Trump campaign. So fight VP subside, where are they right now? HOLMES: I think there's a lot of figuring out what this campaign is going to look like moving forward. There was a lot of talk about how this was going to look exactly like the campaign against Joe Biden, because they were going to link Harris to those policies. But that hasn't really been that effective yet. Now, this idea that no one knows who Kamala Harris is, that applies to all sides, and that includes Republicans. And they are trying to get out there and define her before she has a chance to define herself. But the big problem is none of the attacks that they've really launched so far may be on immigration, but other than that have been landing. And so, they're still trying to figure out the best strategy moving forward and there are a lot of people in Trump's orbit who aren't happy with where the campaign is right now. MATTINGLY: All right. We'll have to see what happens, guys. We got a lot more to get to stick around. Up next, CNN's Van Jones joins me live on today's historic political milestone involving now presumptive Democratic nominee. Plus, there were tears, cheers and plenty of hugs when three Americans who were released from Russia return to the US last night. We're going to hear from someone who was on that tarmac to see the emotional reactions. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:18:42] MATTINGLY: We're back with our 2024 Lead. In a historic moment for Kamala Harris, will become the first black woman and first Asian American to lead a major party presidential ticket after securing enough Democratic convention delegates just a few hours ago. CNN's Van Jones joins me now. Van, always appreciate your perspective. I want to get your reaction this, these new cycles move so fast, and like we're very firmly on to the next thing as soon as the last thing finished. Your reaction to the moment kind of the history here. VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I've known Kamala Harris for 25 years. And, you know, I'd never thought I would get choked up about anything in her career because I voted for her for district attorney. I voted for her for attorney general. I voted for her for senator. I voted for her for vice president. I'll be voting for president. I've been voting for Kamala Harris for so long, that you sometimes forget how extraordinary she is. And when I saw they were selling merchandise saying history made, and the merchandise history made sold out almost immediately. I said, well, this is a big deal. This is a very big deal. I think about my mother, I think about my grandmothers when -- it used to be a joke, the idea that you'd ever have a black president at all. They didn't even -- comedians didn't even make jokes about having a black female president because that was completely inconceivable. [17:20:00] Even in the land of Chi comedy you couldn't imagine it. And yet, we're on the edge of it right now. And it's a -- take a breath, take a breath. This is a big deal. This is 400 years. This is a very, very big deal today and we shouldn't rush past it. MATTINGLY: You know, it'll certainly be a moment at the convention as well, which I think will get proper and ample recognition for what it is. I'm most interested, Van, the vice president has a major decision on her plate right now. We're just talking last block about some of the attacks that we've seen on Josh Shapiro, the Pennsylvania governor, kind of positioning as people are trying to figure out who's best fit to be in that spot with the vice president. I'm interested, what's your sense on Josh Shapiro? What's your sense on kind of the shortlist that exists? JONES: Look, he's come under heavy fire today but he's coming under heavy fire today because he is the most logical person to get this ticket across the finish line. Pennsylvania is must win. He's amazingly popular in Pennsylvania. And he's a beloved figure in Pennsylvania, and he can make a tremendous difference. He pulls Republican and Democratic votes every time he raises his hand for public office. And so, he's coming under fire. But it will, it will take some courage on her part to have, let's just be honest here, a black and Jewish ticket, a black and Jewish ticket with a woman leading the charge that -- if elections are about change versus more of the same. This is real change. This would be a courageous pick to say, we're not afraid of bigotry. We're not afraid of anti-Jewish bias. We're not afraid of anti-black bias. We're not afraid of anti-women bias. We're going to pick strong leaders, no matter what they look like, no matter how they pray. And that's going to be our ticket. And trust the American people to look at what we what we're putting forward. Let's not forget on the other side, they've got some courage on their side as well but it's more reckless courage. They're putting somebody up with a bunch of felony convictions, and somebody's been in public office for 18 months. So there are some courage on their side that's looks a little bit reckless. To put two very successful political leaders, who have won election after election and who have served honorably and well on a ticket should be what Americans do. No matter how they vote, no matter how they pray, no matter what gender they are. If she does that, it will be historic choice all over again. MATTINGLY: You know, turning to the former president who you mentioned, you said after the NABJ convention, the president say, the former president's interview is very clarifying for voters. I'm interested in your -- what you thought of the vice president's response and how our team is operated, which is to say, you know, it's divisive, it's bad, and then just kind of move on. It's been very clear, very concise, not kind of pulling our hair out, not going on full attack on it. Is that going to be effective? JONES: Well, yes, because everybody already knows that Donald Trump is obnoxious on issues of race and does stupid, crazy stuff on issues of race. He's been doing it now for eight years. And if you get off your own message, every time he does that, you just reward his shenanigans. And I think it's high time that we say, listen, obviously, you have to be a lunatic to not understand that somebody can be black and Asian, or part Japanese and part Puerto Rican. That's -- America is built off of that. That's what America is. But the reason he did it was he was trying to stop her momentum. He saw a rising sun of hope and joy, and excitement, and a lot of that fueled by the black community. And so rather than him being able to celebrate that, he decided he's going to dampen that. He's going to try to dampen it by saying, well, she's not even really glad. It didn't work. She's still rising. He's still falling. And today is a great day, and we shouldn't even think about the kind of nonsense stuff that Donald Trump says when you have a beautiful thing happening like it's happening right now in Democratic Party with Kamala Harris. MATTINGLY: Van Jones, always appreciate your perspective, my friend. Thanks so much. JONES: Thank you. MATTINGLY: Well, this is a look of a family reunited after months of uncertainty in a Russian prison sentence. Next, I'll talk to someone who knows also Alsu Kurmasheva personally about what it means for him to see her safely at home. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) …