This This programme This programme is This programme is live This programme is live captioned This programme is live captioned by This programme is live captioned by Red This programme is live captioned by Red Bee This programme is live captioned by Red Bee Media Red Bee Media for Red Bee Media for the Red Bee Media for the Office Red Bee Media for the Office of Red Bee Media for the Office of the Red Bee Media for the Office of the Clerk for the Office of the Clerk of for the Office of the Clerk of the for the Office of the Clerk of the House for the Office of the Clerk of the House of for the Office of the Clerk of the House of Representatives. Mr Mr Speaker. Almighty Almighty God, Almighty God, we Almighty God, we give Almighty God, we give thanks Almighty God, we give thanks for Almighty God, we give thanks for the Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings we give thanks for the blessings which we give thanks for the blessings which have we give thanks for the blessings which have been we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. which have been bestowed on us. Laying which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, Laying aside all personal interests, we Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King we acknowledge the King and we acknowledge the King and pray we acknowledge the King and pray for we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance and pray for guidance in and pray for guidance in our and pray for guidance in our deliberations, in our deliberations, that in our deliberations, that we in our deliberations, that we may in our deliberations, that we may conduct that we may conduct the that we may conduct the affairs that we may conduct the affairs of that we may conduct the affairs of this that we may conduct the affairs of this House the affairs of this House with the affairs of this House with wisdom, the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, with wisdom, justice, mercy, and with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility and humility for and humility for the and humility for the welfare and humility for the welfare and and humility for the welfare and peace for the welfare and peace of for the welfare and peace of New for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. The The Hon The Hon Simeon The Hon Simeon Brown. The Hon Simeon Brown. Mr The Hon Simeon Brown. Mr Speaker, The Hon Simeon Brown. Mr Speaker, today The Hon Simeon Brown. Mr Speaker, today the The Hon Simeon Brown. Mr Speaker, today the House The Hon Simeon Brown. Mr Speaker, today the House will The Hon Simeon Brown. Mr Speaker, today the House will adjourn The Hon Simeon Brown. Mr Speaker, today the House will adjourn until today the House will adjourn until Tuesday today the House will adjourn until Tuesday 20 today the House will adjourn until Tuesday 20 August, today the House will adjourn until Tuesday 20 August, and today the House will adjourn until Tuesday 20 August, and that today the House will adjourn until Tuesday 20 August, and that week today the House will adjourn until Tuesday 20 August, and that week the Tuesday 20 August, and that week the House Tuesday 20 August, and that week the House will Tuesday 20 August, and that week the House will consider Tuesday 20 August, and that week the House will consider the Tuesday 20 August, and that week the House will consider the committee House will consider the committee stages House will consider the committee stages of House will consider the committee stages of the House will consider the committee stages of the Corrections House will consider the committee stages of the Corrections Amendment stages of the Corrections Amendment Bill, stages of the Corrections Amendment Bill, Local stages of the Corrections Amendment Bill, Local Government stages of the Corrections Amendment Bill, Local Government Water Bill, Local Government Water Services Bill, Local Government Water Services Preliminary Bill, Local Government Water Services Preliminary Arrangements Services Preliminary Arrangements Bill, Services Preliminary Arrangements Bill, and Services Preliminary Arrangements Bill, and the Services Preliminary Arrangements Bill, and the Resource Services Preliminary Arrangements Bill, and the Resource Management Bill, and the Resource Management (Extended Bill, and the Resource Management (Extended Duration Bill, and the Resource Management (Extended Duration of Bill, and the Resource Management (Extended Duration of Coastal (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits for (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits for Marine (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits for Marine Farms) (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill. Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill. Wednesday Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill. Wednesday will Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill. Wednesday will be Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill. Wednesday will be a Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill. Wednesday will be a members' Bill. Wednesday will be a members' day. Bill. Wednesday will be a members' day. The Bill. Wednesday will be a members' day. The Hon Bill. Wednesday will be a members' day. The Hon Dr Bill. Wednesday will be a members' day. The Hon Dr Duncan Bill. Wednesday will be a members' day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Bill. Wednesday will be a members' day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I wonder day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I wonder if day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I wonder if the day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I wonder if the Leader day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I wonder if the Leader of day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I wonder if the Leader of the day. The Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I wonder if the Leader of the House wonder if the Leader of the House could wonder if the Leader of the House could inform wonder if the Leader of the House could inform us, wonder if the Leader of the House could inform us, given wonder if the Leader of the House could inform us, given that wonder if the Leader of the House could inform us, given that the could inform us, given that the regulatory could inform us, given that the regulatory systems could inform us, given that the regulatory systems social could inform us, given that the regulatory systems social services regulatory systems social services amendment regulatory systems social services amendment bill regulatory systems social services amendment bill will regulatory systems social services amendment bill will not regulatory systems social services amendment bill will not be amendment bill will not be introduced amendment bill will not be introduced as amendment bill will not be introduced as an amendment bill will not be introduced as an omnibus amendment bill will not be introduced as an omnibus bill, amendment bill will not be introduced as an omnibus bill, will introduced as an omnibus bill, will it introduced as an omnibus bill, will it be introduced as an omnibus bill, will it be divided introduced as an omnibus bill, will it be divided and introduced as an omnibus bill, will it be divided and introduced introduced as an omnibus bill, will it be divided and introduced as introduced as an omnibus bill, will it be divided and introduced as a it be divided and introduced as a number it be divided and introduced as a number of it be divided and introduced as a number of bills, it be divided and introduced as a number of bills, or it be divided and introduced as a number of bills, or will it be divided and introduced as a number of bills, or will the number of bills, or will the Government number of bills, or will the Government be number of bills, or will the Government be giving number of bills, or will the Government be giving up number of bills, or will the Government be giving up on number of bills, or will the Government be giving up on that Government be giving up on that bill? Government be giving up on that bill? I Government be giving up on that bill? I would Government be giving up on that bill? I would say Government be giving up on that bill? I would say to Government be giving up on that bill? I would say to the Government be giving up on that bill? I would say to the member Government be giving up on that bill? I would say to the member that bill? I would say to the member that that bill? I would say to the member that that bill bill? I would say to the member that that bill is bill? I would say to the member that that bill is very bill? I would say to the member that that bill is very important bill? I would say to the member that that bill is very important to bill? I would say to the member that that bill is very important to this that bill is very important to this Government, that bill is very important to this Government, as that bill is very important to this Government, as is that bill is very important to this Government, as is delivery that bill is very important to this Government, as is delivery to that bill is very important to this Government, as is delivery to the Government, as is delivery to the Opposition. Government, as is delivery to the Opposition. <INTERRUPTION> No No petitions No petitions have No petitions have been No petitions have been delivered No petitions have been delivered to No petitions have been delivered to the No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. Ministers Ministers have Ministers have delivered Ministers have delivered papers. Ministers have delivered papers. 2024 Ministers have delivered papers. 2024 Statement Ministers have delivered papers. 2024 Statement of Ministers have delivered papers. 2024 Statement of Corporate Ministers have delivered papers. 2024 Statement of Corporate Intent Ministers have delivered papers. 2024 Statement of Corporate Intent - 2024 Statement of Corporate Intent - GNS 2024 Statement of Corporate Intent - GNS Science. GNS Science. 2024/25 GNS Science. 2024/25 Statement GNS Science. 2024/25 Statement of 2024/25 Statement of Performance 2024/25 Statement of Performance Expectations 2024/25 Statement of Performance Expectations - Performance Expectations - Tertiary Performance Expectations - Tertiary Education Performance Expectations - Tertiary Education Commission. Tertiary Education Commission. Those Tertiary Education Commission. Those papers Tertiary Education Commission. Those papers are Tertiary Education Commission. Those papers are published Those papers are published under Those papers are published under the Those papers are published under the authority Those papers are published under the authority of Those papers are published under the authority of the Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Select Select committee Select committee reports Select committee reports have Select committee reports have been Select committee reports have been delivered Select committee reports have been delivered for Select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. There There is There is quite There is quite a There is quite a long There is quite a long list... Reports Reports of Reports of the Reports of the Finance Reports of the Finance and Reports of the Finance and Expenditure Reports of the Finance and Expenditure Committee and Expenditure Committee on and Expenditure Committee on the and Expenditure Committee on the 2024/25 and Expenditure Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates and Expenditure Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates for and Expenditure Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Finance, on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Finance, Executival on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Finance, Executival Strategy on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Finance, Executival Strategy Report Finance, Executival Strategy Report 2024, Finance, Executival Strategy Report 2024, and Finance, Executival Strategy Report 2024, and Budget Finance, Executival Strategy Report 2024, and Budget Economic 2024, and Budget Economic and 2024, and Budget Economic and Fiscal 2024, and Budget Economic and Fiscal Update 2024, and Budget Economic and Fiscal Update 2024. and Fiscal Update 2024. 2024/25 and Fiscal Update 2024. 2024/25 Estimates 2024/25 Estimates for 2024/25 Estimates for Vote 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Regulation. for Vote Regulation. 2024/25 for Vote Regulation. 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Regulation. 2024/25 Estimates for for Vote Regulation. 2024/25 Estimates for Vote for Vote Regulation. 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Revenue. 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Revenue. Controller 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Revenue. Controller and 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Revenue. Controller and Auditor-General, Controller and Auditor-General, Annual Controller and Auditor-General, Annual Plan Controller and Auditor-General, Annual Plan 2024/25. Annual Plan 2024/25. Report Annual Plan 2024/25. Report of Annual Plan 2024/25. Report of the Annual Plan 2024/25. Report of the Foreign Annual Plan 2024/25. Report of the Foreign Affairs, Report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence Report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee Defence and Trade Committee on Defence and Trade Committee on the Defence and Trade Committee on the 2024/25 Defence and Trade Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates on the 2024/25 Estimates for on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Foreign on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Foreign Affairs. for Vote Foreign Affairs. Reports for Vote Foreign Affairs. Reports of for Vote Foreign Affairs. Reports of the for Vote Foreign Affairs. Reports of the Governance Reports of the Governance and Reports of the Governance and Administration Reports of the Governance and Administration Committee and Administration Committee on and Administration Committee on the and Administration Committee on the 2024/25 and Administration Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates on the 2024/25 Estimates for on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Internal on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Internal Affairs on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Internal Affairs - for Vote Internal Affairs - excluding for Vote Internal Affairs - excluding the for Vote Internal Affairs - excluding the appropriations for Vote Internal Affairs - excluding the appropriations that excluding the appropriations that are excluding the appropriations that are the excluding the appropriations that are the responsibility are the responsibility of are the responsibility of the are the responsibility of the Minister are the responsibility of the Minister for are the responsibility of the Minister for the are the responsibility of the Minister for the Community of the Minister for the Community and of the Minister for the Community and Voluntary of the Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector and Voluntary Sector and and Voluntary Sector and the and Voluntary Sector and the Minister and Voluntary Sector and the Minister for and the Minister for Ethnic and the Minister for Ethnic Communities. Ethnic Communities. Estimates Ethnic Communities. Estimates for Ethnic Communities. Estimates for Vote Ethnic Communities. Estimates for Vote Ombudsman. Estimates for Vote Ombudsman. Estimates Estimates for Vote Ombudsman. Estimates for Estimates for Vote Ombudsman. Estimates for Vote Estimates for Vote Ombudsman. Estimates for Vote Public Estimates for Vote Ombudsman. Estimates for Vote Public Service. Estimates for Vote Public Service. Estimates Estimates for Vote Public Service. Estimates for Estimates for Vote Public Service. Estimates for Vote Estimates for Vote Public Service. Estimates for Vote Statistics. Estimates for Vote Statistics. Report Estimates for Vote Statistics. Report of Estimates for Vote Statistics. Report of the Estimates for Vote Statistics. Report of the Maori Estimates for Vote Statistics. Report of the Maori Affairs Report of the Maori Affairs Committee Report of the Maori Affairs Committee on Report of the Maori Affairs Committee on the Report of the Maori Affairs Committee on the 2024/25 Report of the Maori Affairs Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates for Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Maori Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Maori Development. for Vote Maori Development. Reports for Vote Maori Development. Reports of for Vote Maori Development. Reports of the for Vote Maori Development. Reports of the Social for Vote Maori Development. Reports of the Social Services Reports of the Social Services and Reports of the Social Services and Community Reports of the Social Services and Community Committee and Community Committee on and Community Committee on the and Community Committee on the 2024/25 and Community Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates on the 2024/25 Estimates for on the 2024/25 Estimates for appropriations on the 2024/25 Estimates for appropriations within for appropriations within Vote for appropriations within Vote Internal for appropriations within Vote Internal Affairs Vote Internal Affairs that Vote Internal Affairs that are Vote Internal Affairs that are the Vote Internal Affairs that are the responsibility that are the responsibility of that are the responsibility of the that are the responsibility of the Minister that are the responsibility of the Minister for that are the responsibility of the Minister for the that are the responsibility of the Minister for the Community of the Minister for the Community and of the Minister for the Community and Voluntary of the Minister for the Community and Voluntary Sector and Voluntary Sector and and Voluntary Sector and the and Voluntary Sector and the Minister and the Minister for and the Minister for Ethnic and the Minister for Ethnic Communities. for Ethnic Communities. 2024/25 for Ethnic Communities. 2024/25 Estimates 2024/25 Estimates for 2024/25 Estimates for Vote 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Oranga 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Oranga Tamariki. for Vote Oranga Tamariki. Vote for Vote Oranga Tamariki. Vote Pacific for Vote Oranga Tamariki. Vote Pacific Peoples. Vote Pacific Peoples. Vote Vote Pacific Peoples. Vote Social Vote Pacific Peoples. Vote Social Development. Vote Social Development. Vote Vote Social Development. Vote Social Vote Social Development. Vote Social Investment. Vote Social Investment. Reports Vote Social Investment. Reports of Vote Social Investment. Reports of the Vote Social Investment. Reports of the Transport Reports of the Transport and Reports of the Transport and Infrastructure Reports of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee and Infrastructure Committee on and Infrastructure Committee on the and Infrastructure Committee on the 2024/25 and Infrastructure Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates and Infrastructure Committee on the 2024/25 Estimates for on the 2024/25 Estimates for Appropriations on the 2024/25 Estimates for Appropriations within on the 2024/25 Estimates for Appropriations within Vote on the 2024/25 Estimates for Appropriations within Vote Finance Appropriations within Vote Finance related Appropriations within Vote Finance related to Appropriations within Vote Finance related to the related to the infrastructure related to the infrastructure sector. infrastructure sector. 2024/25 infrastructure sector. 2024/25 Estimates infrastructure sector. 2024/25 Estimates for infrastructure sector. 2024/25 Estimates for Vote infrastructure sector. 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Building 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Building and 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Building and Construction 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Building and Construction - 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Building and Construction - excluding and Construction - excluding appropriations and Construction - excluding appropriations that appropriations that are appropriations that are the appropriations that are the responsibility are the responsibility of are the responsibility of the are the responsibility of the Minister are the responsibility of the Minister of are the responsibility of the Minister of Housing. of the Minister of Housing. 2024/25 of the Minister of Housing. 2024/25 Estimates 2024/25 Estimates for 2024/25 Estimates for Vote 2024/25 Estimates for Vote Transport. for Vote Transport. The for Vote Transport. The report for Vote Transport. The report on for Vote Transport. The report on the for Vote Transport. The report on the Controller The report on the Controller and The report on the Controller and Auditor-General The report on the Controller and Auditor-General Annual The report on the Controller and Auditor-General Annual Plan and Auditor-General Annual Plan 2024/25 and Auditor-General Annual Plan 2024/25 is and Auditor-General Annual Plan 2024/25 is set and Auditor-General Annual Plan 2024/25 is set down 2024/25 is set down for 2024/25 is set down for consideration. No No bills No bills have No bills have been No bills have been introduced. No bills have been introduced. The No bills have been introduced. The House No bills have been introduced. The House comes No bills have been introduced. The House comes to No bills have been introduced. The House comes to Oral No bills have been introduced. The House comes to Oral Questions. The House comes to Oral Questions. Question The House comes to Oral Questions. Question No. The House comes to Oral Questions. Question No. 1. Ryan Ryan Hamilton. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister of My question is to the Minister of Local My question is to the Minister of Local Government: Minister of Local Government: What Minister of Local Government: What recent Minister of Local Government: What recent announcements Minister of Local Government: What recent announcements has Minister of Local Government: What recent announcements has he What recent announcements has he made What recent announcements has he made on What recent announcements has he made on Local What recent announcements has he made on Local Water What recent announcements has he made on Local Water Done What recent announcements has he made on Local Water Done Well? The The Hon The Hon Simeon The Hon Simeon Brown. The Hon Simeon Brown. This The Hon Simeon Brown. This morning, The Hon Simeon Brown. This morning, my The Hon Simeon Brown. This morning, my colleague The Hon Simeon Brown. This morning, my colleague the The Hon Simeon Brown. This morning, my colleague the Hon The Hon Simeon Brown. This morning, my colleague the Hon Andrew The Hon Simeon Brown. This morning, my colleague the Hon Andrew Bayly my colleague the Hon Andrew Bayly and my colleague the Hon Andrew Bayly and I my colleague the Hon Andrew Bayly and I shared my colleague the Hon Andrew Bayly and I shared great my colleague the Hon Andrew Bayly and I shared great news my colleague the Hon Andrew Bayly and I shared great news for and I shared great news for ratepayers and I shared great news for ratepayers and and I shared great news for ratepayers and local and I shared great news for ratepayers and local government, ratepayers and local government, announcing ratepayers and local government, announcing the ratepayers and local government, announcing the enduring ratepayers and local government, announcing the enduring components announcing the enduring components of announcing the enduring components of what announcing the enduring components of what service announcing the enduring components of what service delivery announcing the enduring components of what service delivery under announcing the enduring components of what service delivery under our of what service delivery under our Government's of what service delivery under our Government's fantastic of what service delivery under our Government's fantastic Local of what service delivery under our Government's fantastic Local Water Government's fantastic Local Water Done Government's fantastic Local Water Done Well Government's fantastic Local Water Done Well plan. Government's fantastic Local Water Done Well plan. This Government's fantastic Local Water Done Well plan. This is Government's fantastic Local Water Done Well plan. This is about Done Well plan. This is about providing Done Well plan. This is about providing local Done Well plan. This is about providing local government Done Well plan. This is about providing local government the providing local government the certainty providing local government the certainty it providing local government the certainty it needs providing local government the certainty it needs to providing local government the certainty it needs to deliver providing local government the certainty it needs to deliver the certainty it needs to deliver the water certainty it needs to deliver the water services certainty it needs to deliver the water services Kiwis certainty it needs to deliver the water services Kiwis rely certainty it needs to deliver the water services Kiwis rely on, certainty it needs to deliver the water services Kiwis rely on, while water services Kiwis rely on, while minimising water services Kiwis rely on, while minimising costs water services Kiwis rely on, while minimising costs for water services Kiwis rely on, while minimising costs for ratepayers. minimising costs for ratepayers. Members minimising costs for ratepayers. Members on minimising costs for ratepayers. Members on the minimising costs for ratepayers. Members on the other minimising costs for ratepayers. Members on the other side minimising costs for ratepayers. Members on the other side said minimising costs for ratepayers. Members on the other side said that Members on the other side said that Local Members on the other side said that Local Water Members on the other side said that Local Water Done Members on the other side said that Local Water Done Well Members on the other side said that Local Water Done Well could Members on the other side said that Local Water Done Well could not Members on the other side said that Local Water Done Well could not be Local Water Done Well could not be done Local Water Done Well could not be done but, Local Water Done Well could not be done but, after Local Water Done Well could not be done but, after just Local Water Done Well could not be done but, after just nine Local Water Done Well could not be done but, after just nine months, done but, after just nine months, we've done but, after just nine months, we've delivered done but, after just nine months, we've delivered for done but, after just nine months, we've delivered for communities we've delivered for communities across we've delivered for communities across our we've delivered for communities across our country. we've delivered for communities across our country. What we've delivered for communities across our country. What are we've delivered for communities across our country. What are these across our country. What are these enduring across our country. What are these enduring components across our country. What are these enduring components of across our country. What are these enduring components of Local across our country. What are these enduring components of Local Water enduring components of Local Water Done enduring components of Local Water Done Well? enduring components of Local Water Done Well? The enduring components of Local Water Done Well? The enduring enduring components of Local Water Done Well? The enduring components Done Well? The enduring components of Done Well? The enduring components of Local Done Well? The enduring components of Local Water Done Well? The enduring components of Local Water Done Done Well? The enduring components of Local Water Done Well Done Well? The enduring components of Local Water Done Well announced of Local Water Done Well announced today of Local Water Done Well announced today will of Local Water Done Well announced today will enable of Local Water Done Well announced today will enable new of Local Water Done Well announced today will enable new models of Local Water Done Well announced today will enable new models for today will enable new models for financially today will enable new models for financially sustainable today will enable new models for financially sustainable water financially sustainable water organisations financially sustainable water organisations across financially sustainable water organisations across the financially sustainable water organisations across the country financially sustainable water organisations across the country - organisations across the country - and organisations across the country - and financing organisations across the country - and financing from organisations across the country - and financing from the organisations across the country - and financing from the local and financing from the local government and financing from the local government funding and financing from the local government funding agency and financing from the local government funding agency for and financing from the local government funding agency for water government funding agency for water organisations, government funding agency for water organisations, which government funding agency for water organisations, which will government funding agency for water organisations, which will reduce government funding agency for water organisations, which will reduce the organisations, which will reduce the financial organisations, which will reduce the financial burden organisations, which will reduce the financial burden on organisations, which will reduce the financial burden on ratepayers organisations, which will reduce the financial burden on ratepayers who financial burden on ratepayers who are financial burden on ratepayers who are faced financial burden on ratepayers who are faced with financial burden on ratepayers who are faced with higher financial burden on ratepayers who are faced with higher rates financial burden on ratepayers who are faced with higher rates under are faced with higher rates under Three are faced with higher rates under Three Waters. are faced with higher rates under Three Waters. What are faced with higher rates under Three Waters. What does are faced with higher rates under Three Waters. What does this are faced with higher rates under Three Waters. What does this mean Three Waters. What does this mean for Three Waters. What does this mean for councils Three Waters. What does this mean for councils across Three Waters. What does this mean for councils across the Three Waters. What does this mean for councils across the country? for councils across the country? Councils for councils across the country? Councils will for councils across the country? Councils will be for councils across the country? Councils will be pleased for councils across the country? Councils will be pleased with Councils will be pleased with today's Councils will be pleased with today's announcement. Councils will be pleased with today's announcement. The Councils will be pleased with today's announcement. The local today's announcement. The local government today's announcement. The local government funding today's announcement. The local government funding agency today's announcement. The local government funding agency provides government funding agency provides the government funding agency provides the lowest-cost government funding agency provides the lowest-cost financing government funding agency provides the lowest-cost financing that government funding agency provides the lowest-cost financing that is the lowest-cost financing that is available the lowest-cost financing that is available to the lowest-cost financing that is available to local the lowest-cost financing that is available to local government. the lowest-cost financing that is available to local government. And available to local government. And from available to local government. And from today, available to local government. And from today, it available to local government. And from today, it will available to local government. And from today, it will be available to local government. And from today, it will be able available to local government. And from today, it will be able to from today, it will be able to support from today, it will be able to support leverage from today, it will be able to support leverage for from today, it will be able to support leverage for water from today, it will be able to support leverage for water CCOs from today, it will be able to support leverage for water CCOs up support leverage for water CCOs up to support leverage for water CCOs up to a support leverage for water CCOs up to a level support leverage for water CCOs up to a level equivalent support leverage for water CCOs up to a level equivalent of support leverage for water CCOs up to a level equivalent of 500% support leverage for water CCOs up to a level equivalent of 500% of to a level equivalent of 500% of revenue. to a level equivalent of 500% of revenue. Around to a level equivalent of 500% of revenue. Around twice to a level equivalent of 500% of revenue. Around twice that to a level equivalent of 500% of revenue. Around twice that of revenue. Around twice that of existing revenue. Around twice that of existing financing revenue. Around twice that of existing financing levels revenue. Around twice that of existing financing levels for existing financing levels for councils. existing financing levels for councils. Subject existing financing levels for councils. Subject to existing financing levels for councils. Subject to water councils. Subject to water organisations councils. Subject to water organisations meeting councils. Subject to water organisations meeting prudent councils. Subject to water organisations meeting prudent credit organisations meeting prudent credit criteria. organisations meeting prudent credit criteria. This organisations meeting prudent credit criteria. This would organisations meeting prudent credit criteria. This would not organisations meeting prudent credit criteria. This would not is organisations meeting prudent credit criteria. This would not is have criteria. This would not is have happened criteria. This would not is have happened under criteria. This would not is have happened under the criteria. This would not is have happened under the co-governed criteria. This would not is have happened under the co-governed Three happened under the co-governed Three Waters happened under the co-governed Three Waters model. happened under the co-governed Three Waters model. Our happened under the co-governed Three Waters model. Our plan happened under the co-governed Three Waters model. Our plan restores Waters model. Our plan restores local Waters model. Our plan restores local control Waters model. Our plan restores local control of Waters model. Our plan restores local control of water Waters model. Our plan restores local control of water assets, Waters model. Our plan restores local control of water assets, and local control of water assets, and recognises local control of water assets, and recognises the local control of water assets, and recognises the importance local control of water assets, and recognises the importance of local control of water assets, and recognises the importance of local recognises the importance of local decision-making. recognises the importance of local decision-making. What recognises the importance of local decision-making. What impact recognises the importance of local decision-making. What impact will decision-making. What impact will this decision-making. What impact will this have decision-making. What impact will this have on decision-making. What impact will this have on ratepayers? decision-making. What impact will this have on ratepayers? Point decision-making. What impact will this have on ratepayers? Point of this have on ratepayers? Point of order, this have on ratepayers? Point of order, the this have on ratepayers? Point of order, the Hon this have on ratepayers? Point of order, the Hon Dr this have on ratepayers? Point of order, the Hon Dr Duncan this have on ratepayers? Point of order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. this have on ratepayers? Point of order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I've order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I've been order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I've been sitting order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I've been sitting here order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I've been sitting here listening order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I've been sitting here listening to order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. I've been sitting here listening to the been sitting here listening to the supplementary been sitting here listening to the supplementary questions. been sitting here listening to the supplementary questions. They been sitting here listening to the supplementary questions. They simply supplementary questions. They simply don't supplementary questions. They simply don't relate supplementary questions. They simply don't relate to supplementary questions. They simply don't relate to any supplementary questions. They simply don't relate to any announcements don't relate to any announcements that don't relate to any announcements that the don't relate to any announcements that the Minister don't relate to any announcements that the Minister has don't relate to any announcements that the Minister has made. that the Minister has made. Yesterday, that the Minister has made. Yesterday, you that the Minister has made. Yesterday, you upbraided that the Minister has made. Yesterday, you upbraided a that the Minister has made. Yesterday, you upbraided a members Yesterday, you upbraided a members of Yesterday, you upbraided a members of the Yesterday, you upbraided a members of the Opposition Yesterday, you upbraided a members of the Opposition for of the Opposition for supplementaries of the Opposition for supplementaries not of the Opposition for supplementaries not relating of the Opposition for supplementaries not relating to of the Opposition for supplementaries not relating to the supplementaries not relating to the primary. supplementaries not relating to the primary. If supplementaries not relating to the primary. If the supplementaries not relating to the primary. If the member supplementaries not relating to the primary. If the member has supplementaries not relating to the primary. If the member has questions primary. If the member has questions about primary. If the member has questions about other primary. If the member has questions about other announcements, primary. If the member has questions about other announcements, that about other announcements, that would about other announcements, that would be about other announcements, that would be within about other announcements, that would be within scope. about other announcements, that would be within scope. But about other announcements, that would be within scope. But this would be within scope. But this would would be within scope. But this would seem would be within scope. But this would seem to would be within scope. But this would seem to be would be within scope. But this would seem to be without. would be within scope. But this would seem to be without. There would be within scope. But this would seem to be without. There was would seem to be without. There was only would seem to be without. There was only one would seem to be without. There was only one supplementary would seem to be without. There was only one supplementary prior would seem to be without. There was only one supplementary prior to would seem to be without. There was only one supplementary prior to the only one supplementary prior to the last only one supplementary prior to the last one. only one supplementary prior to the last one. The only one supplementary prior to the last one. The question only one supplementary prior to the last one. The question that's only one supplementary prior to the last one. The question that's just last one. The question that's just been last one. The question that's just been asked last one. The question that's just been asked is last one. The question that's just been asked is most last one. The question that's just been asked is most certainly been asked is most certainly relating been asked is most certainly relating to been asked is most certainly relating to this. been asked is most certainly relating to this. If been asked is most certainly relating to this. If you're been asked is most certainly relating to this. If you're asking relating to this. If you're asking about relating to this. If you're asking about - relating to this. If you're asking about - if relating to this. If you're asking about - if the relating to this. If you're asking about - if the question relating to this. If you're asking about - if the question was relating to this. If you're asking about - if the question was about about - if the question was about the about - if the question was about the effect about - if the question was about the effect on about - if the question was about the effect on ratepayers... about - if the question was about the effect on ratepayers... The the effect on ratepayers... The question the effect on ratepayers... The question was the effect on ratepayers... The question was about the effect on ratepayers... The question was about announcements. question was about announcements. Well, question was about announcements. Well, OK. question was about announcements. Well, OK. I'll question was about announcements. Well, OK. I'll do question was about announcements. Well, OK. I'll do what question was about announcements. Well, OK. I'll do what I question was about announcements. Well, OK. I'll do what I did Well, OK. I'll do what I did yesterday Well, OK. I'll do what I did yesterday and Well, OK. I'll do what I did yesterday and give Well, OK. I'll do what I did yesterday and give the Well, OK. I'll do what I did yesterday and give the member Well, OK. I'll do what I did yesterday and give the member the yesterday and give the member the opportunity yesterday and give the member the opportunity to yesterday and give the member the opportunity to ask yesterday and give the member the opportunity to ask it yesterday and give the member the opportunity to ask it with yesterday and give the member the opportunity to ask it with a opportunity to ask it with a slightly opportunity to ask it with a slightly different opportunity to ask it with a slightly different focus. opportunity to ask it with a slightly different focus. Thank opportunity to ask it with a slightly different focus. Thank you, slightly different focus. Thank you, Mr slightly different focus. Thank you, Mr Speaker. slightly different focus. Thank you, Mr Speaker. What slightly different focus. Thank you, Mr Speaker. What impact slightly different focus. Thank you, Mr Speaker. What impact will slightly different focus. Thank you, Mr Speaker. What impact will this Mr Speaker. What impact will this announcement Mr Speaker. What impact will this announcement - Mr Speaker. What impact will this announcement - that Mr Speaker. What impact will this announcement - that being Mr Speaker. What impact will this announcement - that being Local announcement - that being Local Water announcement - that being Local Water Done announcement - that being Local Water Done Well announcement - that being Local Water Done Well - announcement - that being Local Water Done Well - have announcement - that being Local Water Done Well - have on Water Done Well - have on ratepayers? Water Done Well - have on ratepayers? Well, Water Done Well - have on ratepayers? Well, I Water Done Well - have on ratepayers? Well, I see Water Done Well - have on ratepayers? Well, I see the Water Done Well - have on ratepayers? Well, I see the point... ratepayers? Well, I see the point... Have ratepayers? Well, I see the point... Have a ratepayers? Well, I see the point... Have a think ratepayers? Well, I see the point... Have a think about ratepayers? Well, I see the point... Have a think about it. ratepayers? Well, I see the point... Have a think about it. Maybe ratepayers? Well, I see the point... Have a think about it. Maybe move ratepayers? Well, I see the point... Have a think about it. Maybe move on Have a think about it. Maybe move on to Have a think about it. Maybe move on to another Have a think about it. Maybe move on to another question. Have a think about it. Maybe move on to another question. The Have a think about it. Maybe move on to another question. The Minister to another question. The Minister can't to another question. The Minister can't really to another question. The Minister can't really reflect to another question. The Minister can't really reflect on to another question. The Minister can't really reflect on how can't really reflect on how ratepayers can't really reflect on how ratepayers feel can't really reflect on how ratepayers feel about can't really reflect on how ratepayers feel about the ratepayers feel about the announcement, ratepayers feel about the announcement, the ratepayers feel about the announcement, the effect ratepayers feel about the announcement, the effect of ratepayers feel about the announcement, the effect of the announcement, the effect of the announcement announcement, the effect of the announcement might announcement, the effect of the announcement might be announcement, the effect of the announcement might be a announcement, the effect of the announcement might be a different announcement might be a different matter. announcement might be a different matter. I'm announcement might be a different matter. I'm sorry announcement might be a different matter. I'm sorry if announcement might be a different matter. I'm sorry if we're announcement might be a different matter. I'm sorry if we're getting matter. I'm sorry if we're getting all matter. I'm sorry if we're getting all pedantic matter. I'm sorry if we're getting all pedantic about matter. I'm sorry if we're getting all pedantic about the matter. I'm sorry if we're getting all pedantic about the words, matter. I'm sorry if we're getting all pedantic about the words, which all pedantic about the words, which we all pedantic about the words, which we appear all pedantic about the words, which we appear today. all pedantic about the words, which we appear today. We all pedantic about the words, which we appear today. We may all pedantic about the words, which we appear today. We may need all pedantic about the words, which we appear today. We may need to we appear today. We may need to think we appear today. We may need to think about we appear today. We may need to think about that. we appear today. We may need to think about that. Anothers we appear today. We may need to think about that. Anothers p. we appear today. We may need to think about that. Anothers p. What think about that. Anothers p. What will think about that. Anothers p. What will be think about that. Anothers p. What will be the think about that. Anothers p. What will be the financial think about that. Anothers p. What will be the financial implications will be the financial implications of will be the financial implications of this will be the financial implications of this announcement? will be the financial implications of this announcement? Today's of this announcement? Today's announcement of this announcement? Today's announcement is of this announcement? Today's announcement is great of this announcement? Today's announcement is great news of this announcement? Today's announcement is great news for announcement is great news for ratepayers. announcement is great news for ratepayers. Local announcement is great news for ratepayers. Local Water announcement is great news for ratepayers. Local Water Done announcement is great news for ratepayers. Local Water Done Well ratepayers. Local Water Done Well will ratepayers. Local Water Done Well will provide ratepayers. Local Water Done Well will provide lower ratepayers. Local Water Done Well will provide lower costs ratepayers. Local Water Done Well will provide lower costs to ratepayers. Local Water Done Well will provide lower costs to New will provide lower costs to New Zealand will provide lower costs to New Zealand councils will provide lower costs to New Zealand councils for will provide lower costs to New Zealand councils for financing will provide lower costs to New Zealand councils for financing that Zealand councils for financing that could Zealand councils for financing that could have Zealand councils for financing that could have been Zealand councils for financing that could have been -- Zealand councils for financing that could have been -- than Zealand councils for financing that could have been -- than could Zealand councils for financing that could have been -- than could have could have been -- than could have been could have been -- than could have been achieved could have been -- than could have been achieved under could have been -- than could have been achieved under the could have been -- than could have been achieved under the previous been achieved under the previous government's been achieved under the previous government's Three been achieved under the previous government's Three Waters been achieved under the previous government's Three Waters reform, government's Three Waters reform, which government's Three Waters reform, which we government's Three Waters reform, which we swiftly government's Three Waters reform, which we swiftly repealed government's Three Waters reform, which we swiftly repealed to government's Three Waters reform, which we swiftly repealed to restore which we swiftly repealed to restore local which we swiftly repealed to restore local control which we swiftly repealed to restore local control of which we swiftly repealed to restore local control of water which we swiftly repealed to restore local control of water assets which we swiftly repealed to restore local control of water assets to local control of water assets to communities. local control of water assets to communities. It local control of water assets to communities. It will local control of water assets to communities. It will deal local control of water assets to communities. It will deal with local control of water assets to communities. It will deal with the communities. It will deal with the local communities. It will deal with the local government communities. It will deal with the local government water communities. It will deal with the local government water funding local government water funding agency local government water funding agency to local government water funding agency to immediately local government water funding agency to immediately lend local government water funding agency to immediately lend to local government water funding agency to immediately lend to what agency to immediately lend to what are agency to immediately lend to what are CCOs. agency to immediately lend to what are CCOs. This agency to immediately lend to what are CCOs. This financing agency to immediately lend to what are CCOs. This financing is are CCOs. This financing is available are CCOs. This financing is available as are CCOs. This financing is available as of are CCOs. This financing is available as of today are CCOs. This financing is available as of today and are CCOs. This financing is available as of today and means are CCOs. This financing is available as of today and means that available as of today and means that communities available as of today and means that communities will available as of today and means that communities will have available as of today and means that communities will have the communities will have the flexibility communities will have the flexibility and communities will have the flexibility and the communities will have the flexibility and the tools communities will have the flexibility and the tools they communities will have the flexibility and the tools they need flexibility and the tools they need to flexibility and the tools they need to meet flexibility and the tools they need to meet their flexibility and the tools they need to meet their unique flexibility and the tools they need to meet their unique needs. flexibility and the tools they need to meet their unique needs. Did flexibility and the tools they need to meet their unique needs. Did the to meet their unique needs. Did the Minister to meet their unique needs. Did the Minister include to meet their unique needs. Did the Minister include in to meet their unique needs. Did the Minister include in his to meet their unique needs. Did the Minister include in his announcement Minister include in his announcement that, Minister include in his announcement that, out Minister include in his announcement that, out of Minister include in his announcement that, out of the Minister include in his announcement that, out of the only Minister include in his announcement that, out of the only 182 that, out of the only 182 submissions that, out of the only 182 submissions who that, out of the only 182 submissions who were that, out of the only 182 submissions who were able that, out of the only 182 submissions who were able to that, out of the only 182 submissions who were able to submit submissions who were able to submit as submissions who were able to submit as part submissions who were able to submit as part of submissions who were able to submit as part of the submissions who were able to submit as part of the truncated submissions who were able to submit as part of the truncated 10-day as part of the truncated 10-day deadline, as part of the truncated 10-day deadline, only as part of the truncated 10-day deadline, only 19 as part of the truncated 10-day deadline, only 19 explicitly deadline, only 19 explicitly supported deadline, only 19 explicitly supported the deadline, only 19 explicitly supported the bill, deadline, only 19 explicitly supported the bill, 18% deadline, only 19 explicitly supported the bill, 18% of deadline, only 19 explicitly supported the bill, 18% of councils supported the bill, 18% of councils missed supported the bill, 18% of councils missed out supported the bill, 18% of councils missed out on supported the bill, 18% of councils missed out on even supported the bill, 18% of councils missed out on even having supported the bill, 18% of councils missed out on even having their missed out on even having their voice missed out on even having their voice heard, missed out on even having their voice heard, and missed out on even having their voice heard, and of missed out on even having their voice heard, and of those missed out on even having their voice heard, and of those who missed out on even having their voice heard, and of those who did, voice heard, and of those who did, all voice heard, and of those who did, all of voice heard, and of those who did, all of them voice heard, and of those who did, all of them submitted voice heard, and of those who did, all of them submitted that voice heard, and of those who did, all of them submitted that "The voice heard, and of those who did, all of them submitted that "The cost all of them submitted that "The cost and all of them submitted that "The cost and resource all of them submitted that "The cost and resource implications all of them submitted that "The cost and resource implications are all of them submitted that "The cost and resource implications are both and resource implications are both unclear and resource implications are both unclear and and resource implications are both unclear and significant and resource implications are both unclear and significant for unclear and significant for councils, unclear and significant for councils, making unclear and significant for councils, making it unclear and significant for councils, making it challenging unclear and significant for councils, making it challenging to councils, making it challenging to plan councils, making it challenging to plan or councils, making it challenging to plan or fund councils, making it challenging to plan or fund the councils, making it challenging to plan or fund the reforms"? councils, making it challenging to plan or fund the reforms"? As councils, making it challenging to plan or fund the reforms"? As we're plan or fund the reforms"? As we're going plan or fund the reforms"? As we're going pedantic plan or fund the reforms"? As we're going pedantic as plan or fund the reforms"? As we're going pedantic as to plan or fund the reforms"? As we're going pedantic as to what plan or fund the reforms"? As we're going pedantic as to what goes plan or fund the reforms"? As we're going pedantic as to what goes into going pedantic as to what goes into questions, going pedantic as to what goes into questions, I'd going pedantic as to what goes into questions, I'd suggest going pedantic as to what goes into questions, I'd suggest that going pedantic as to what goes into questions, I'd suggest that members questions, I'd suggest that members look questions, I'd suggest that members look at questions, I'd suggest that members look at Standing questions, I'd suggest that members look at Standing Order questions, I'd suggest that members look at Standing Order 390 questions, I'd suggest that members look at Standing Order 390 - questions, I'd suggest that members look at Standing Order 390 - much questions, I'd suggest that members look at Standing Order 390 - much of look at Standing Order 390 - much of what look at Standing Order 390 - much of what was look at Standing Order 390 - much of what was just look at Standing Order 390 - much of what was just said look at Standing Order 390 - much of what was just said would look at Standing Order 390 - much of what was just said would not look at Standing Order 390 - much of what was just said would not comply what was just said would not comply with what was just said would not comply with that what was just said would not comply with that Standing what was just said would not comply with that Standing Order. what was just said would not comply with that Standing Order. But what was just said would not comply with that Standing Order. But it what was just said would not comply with that Standing Order. But it has with that Standing Order. But it has to with that Standing Order. But it has to be with that Standing Order. But it has to be said with that Standing Order. But it has to be said to with that Standing Order. But it has to be said to make with that Standing Order. But it has to be said to make the with that Standing Order. But it has to be said to make the question to be said to make the question reasonable. to be said to make the question reasonable. And to be said to make the question reasonable. And I to be said to make the question reasonable. And I think to be said to make the question reasonable. And I think that's to be said to make the question reasonable. And I think that's the reasonable. And I think that's the judgement reasonable. And I think that's the judgement that reasonable. And I think that's the judgement that has reasonable. And I think that's the judgement that has to reasonable. And I think that's the judgement that has to be reasonable. And I think that's the judgement that has to be made reasonable. And I think that's the judgement that has to be made here. judgement that has to be made here. The judgement that has to be made here. The Hon judgement that has to be made here. The Hon Simeon judgement that has to be made here. The Hon Simeon Brown. judgement that has to be made here. The Hon Simeon Brown. The judgement that has to be made here. The Hon Simeon Brown. The member's The Hon Simeon Brown. The member's discussing The Hon Simeon Brown. The member's discussing the The Hon Simeon Brown. The member's discussing the bill, The Hon Simeon Brown. The member's discussing the bill, which The Hon Simeon Brown. The member's discussing the bill, which was discussing the bill, which was before discussing the bill, which was before the discussing the bill, which was before the House, discussing the bill, which was before the House, which discussing the bill, which was before the House, which relates discussing the bill, which was before the House, which relates to before the House, which relates to water before the House, which relates to water service before the House, which relates to water service delivery before the House, which relates to water service delivery plans. before the House, which relates to water service delivery plans. The water service delivery plans. The announcement water service delivery plans. The announcement made water service delivery plans. The announcement made today water service delivery plans. The announcement made today is water service delivery plans. The announcement made today is about water service delivery plans. The announcement made today is about the announcement made today is about the financing announcement made today is about the financing models announcement made today is about the financing models which announcement made today is about the financing models which are announcement made today is about the financing models which are now financing models which are now available financing models which are now available for financing models which are now available for councils financing models which are now available for councils to financing models which are now available for councils to be financing models which are now available for councils to be able financing models which are now available for councils to be able to available for councils to be able to invest available for councils to be able to invest in available for councils to be able to invest in sustainably available for councils to be able to invest in sustainably into available for councils to be able to invest in sustainably into their invest in sustainably into their water invest in sustainably into their water services invest in sustainably into their water services and invest in sustainably into their water services and actually invest in sustainably into their water services and actually make invest in sustainably into their water services and actually make it water services and actually make it happen water services and actually make it happen and water services and actually make it happen and get water services and actually make it happen and get things water services and actually make it happen and get things done. water services and actually make it happen and get things done. So happen and get things done. So that's happen and get things done. So that's what happen and get things done. So that's what this happen and get things done. So that's what this Government happen and get things done. So that's what this Government has happen and get things done. So that's what this Government has done that's what this Government has done with that's what this Government has done with Local that's what this Government has done with Local Water that's what this Government has done with Local Water Done that's what this Government has done with Local Water Done Well. that's what this Government has done with Local Water Done Well. We've with Local Water Done Well. We've got with Local Water Done Well. We've got a with Local Water Done Well. We've got a plan. with Local Water Done Well. We've got a plan. We've with Local Water Done Well. We've got a plan. We've got with Local Water Done Well. We've got a plan. We've got the with Local Water Done Well. We've got a plan. We've got the financing. got a plan. We've got the financing. And got a plan. We've got the financing. And now got a plan. We've got the financing. And now it's got a plan. We've got the financing. And now it's up got a plan. We've got the financing. And now it's up to got a plan. We've got the financing. And now it's up to councils got a plan. We've got the financing. And now it's up to councils to got a plan. We've got the financing. And now it's up to councils to take And now it's up to councils to take the And now it's up to councils to take the leadership And now it's up to councils to take the leadership to And now it's up to councils to take the leadership to ensure And now it's up to councils to take the leadership to ensure that And now it's up to councils to take the leadership to ensure that they the leadership to ensure that they can the leadership to ensure that they can deliver the leadership to ensure that they can deliver for the leadership to ensure that they can deliver for their the leadership to ensure that they can deliver for their local can deliver for their local communities. can deliver for their local communities. What can deliver for their local communities. What we can deliver for their local communities. What we campaigned can deliver for their local communities. What we campaigned on, communities. What we campaigned on, we're communities. What we campaigned on, we're delivering. communities. What we campaigned on, we're delivering. Question communities. What we campaigned on, we're delivering. Question No. communities. What we campaigned on, we're delivering. Question No. 2 communities. What we campaigned on, we're delivering. Question No. 2 - we're delivering. Question No. 2 - Hana-Rawhiti we're delivering. Question No. 2 - Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister of My question is to the Minister of Health: Minister of Health: Can Minister of Health: Can he Minister of Health: Can he guarantee Can he guarantee that Can he guarantee that the Can he guarantee that the proposed Can he guarantee that the proposed review that the proposed review of that the proposed review of the that the proposed review of the Maori that the proposed review of the Maori and that the proposed review of the Maori and Pacific of the Maori and Pacific Admission of the Maori and Pacific Admission Scheme, Admission Scheme, which Admission Scheme, which has Admission Scheme, which has admitted Admission Scheme, which has admitted more Admission Scheme, which has admitted more than Admission Scheme, which has admitted more than 700 which has admitted more than 700 Maori which has admitted more than 700 Maori and which has admitted more than 700 Maori and Pasifika which has admitted more than 700 Maori and Pasifika students Maori and Pasifika students to Maori and Pasifika students to medical Maori and Pasifika students to medical school to medical school in to medical school in the to medical school in the last to medical school in the last 10 to medical school in the last 10 years, in the last 10 years, will in the last 10 years, will not in the last 10 years, will not lead will not lead to will not lead to its will not lead to its disestablishment? The The Hon The Hon Matt The Hon Matt Doocey. The Hon Matt Doocey. On The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of the The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of the Minister The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of the Minister of The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of the Minister of Health The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of the Minister of Health - The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of the Minister of Health - as The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of the Minister of Health - as part The Hon Matt Doocey. On behalf of the Minister of Health - as part of the Minister of Health - as part of our the Minister of Health - as part of our Coalition the Minister of Health - as part of our Coalition agreement the Minister of Health - as part of our Coalition agreement with the Minister of Health - as part of our Coalition agreement with ACT, the Minister of Health - as part of our Coalition agreement with ACT, we our Coalition agreement with ACT, we have our Coalition agreement with ACT, we have agreed our Coalition agreement with ACT, we have agreed to our Coalition agreement with ACT, we have agreed to review our Coalition agreement with ACT, we have agreed to review the our Coalition agreement with ACT, we have agreed to review the MAPA have agreed to review the MAPA scheme. have agreed to review the MAPA scheme. This have agreed to review the MAPA scheme. This is have agreed to review the MAPA scheme. This is yet have agreed to review the MAPA scheme. This is yet to have agreed to review the MAPA scheme. This is yet to begin, have agreed to review the MAPA scheme. This is yet to begin, and have agreed to review the MAPA scheme. This is yet to begin, and no scheme. This is yet to begin, and no decisions scheme. This is yet to begin, and no decisions about scheme. This is yet to begin, and no decisions about terms scheme. This is yet to begin, and no decisions about terms of scheme. This is yet to begin, and no decisions about terms of reference decisions about terms of reference have decisions about terms of reference have been decisions about terms of reference have been made. decisions about terms of reference have been made. That's decisions about terms of reference have been made. That's because decisions about terms of reference have been made. That's because we've have been made. That's because we've been have been made. That's because we've been laser-focused have been made. That's because we've been laser-focused on have been made. That's because we've been laser-focused on addressing have been made. That's because we've been laser-focused on addressing the been laser-focused on addressing the financial been laser-focused on addressing the financial challenges been laser-focused on addressing the financial challenges left been laser-focused on addressing the financial challenges left to been laser-focused on addressing the financial challenges left to us been laser-focused on addressing the financial challenges left to us by financial challenges left to us by the financial challenges left to us by the botched financial challenges left to us by the botched merger financial challenges left to us by the botched merger of financial challenges left to us by the botched merger of Health financial challenges left to us by the botched merger of Health New the botched merger of Health New Zealand. the botched merger of Health New Zealand. Supplementary: Zealand. Supplementary: Does Zealand. Supplementary: Does he Zealand. Supplementary: Does he agree Zealand. Supplementary: Does he agree with Zealand. Supplementary: Does he agree with the Zealand. Supplementary: Does he agree with the associate Does he agree with the associate Health Does he agree with the associate Health Minister Does he agree with the associate Health Minister that Does he agree with the associate Health Minister that the Does he agree with the associate Health Minister that the Maori Does he agree with the associate Health Minister that the Maori and Health Minister that the Maori and Pacific Health Minister that the Maori and Pacific Admission Health Minister that the Maori and Pacific Admission Scheme Health Minister that the Maori and Pacific Admission Scheme is Health Minister that the Maori and Pacific Admission Scheme is an Pacific Admission Scheme is an example Pacific Admission Scheme is an example of Pacific Admission Scheme is an example of "lazily Pacific Admission Scheme is an example of "lazily looking Pacific Admission Scheme is an example of "lazily looking at example of "lazily looking at anotheren example of "lazily looking at anotheren with example of "lazily looking at anotheren with through example of "lazily looking at anotheren with through the example of "lazily looking at anotheren with through the lens example of "lazily looking at anotheren with through the lens of anotheren with through the lens of race"? anotheren with through the lens of race"? On anotheren with through the lens of race"? On behalf anotheren with through the lens of race"? On behalf of anotheren with through the lens of race"? On behalf of the anotheren with through the lens of race"? On behalf of the Health race"? On behalf of the Health Minister, race"? On behalf of the Health Minister, what race"? On behalf of the Health Minister, what I race"? On behalf of the Health Minister, what I do race"? On behalf of the Health Minister, what I do agree race"? On behalf of the Health Minister, what I do agree with race"? On behalf of the Health Minister, what I do agree with is Minister, what I do agree with is the Minister, what I do agree with is the review Minister, what I do agree with is the review of Minister, what I do agree with is the review of the Minister, what I do agree with is the review of the MAPAS Minister, what I do agree with is the review of the MAPAS scheme Minister, what I do agree with is the review of the MAPAS scheme in the review of the MAPAS scheme in line the review of the MAPAS scheme in line with the review of the MAPAS scheme in line with the the review of the MAPAS scheme in line with the Coalition the review of the MAPAS scheme in line with the Coalition agreement. line with the Coalition agreement. When line with the Coalition agreement. When you line with the Coalition agreement. When you think line with the Coalition agreement. When you think about line with the Coalition agreement. When you think about it, line with the Coalition agreement. When you think about it, what line with the Coalition agreement. When you think about it, what is When you think about it, what is wrong When you think about it, what is wrong with When you think about it, what is wrong with reviewing When you think about it, what is wrong with reviewing a When you think about it, what is wrong with reviewing a programme When you think about it, what is wrong with reviewing a programme to wrong with reviewing a programme to ensure wrong with reviewing a programme to ensure it's wrong with reviewing a programme to ensure it's meeting wrong with reviewing a programme to ensure it's meeting its wrong with reviewing a programme to ensure it's meeting its objectives? ensure it's meeting its objectives? Supplementary: ensure it's meeting its objectives? Supplementary: Does ensure it's meeting its objectives? Supplementary: Does he ensure it's meeting its objectives? Supplementary: Does he still ensure it's meeting its objectives? Supplementary: Does he still believe Supplementary: Does he still believe that Supplementary: Does he still believe that "If Supplementary: Does he still believe that "If you're Supplementary: Does he still believe that "If you're treated Supplementary: Does he still believe that "If you're treated in Supplementary: Does he still believe that "If you're treated in a that "If you're treated in a culturally that "If you're treated in a culturally competent that "If you're treated in a culturally competent context, that "If you're treated in a culturally competent context, you culturally competent context, you get culturally competent context, you get a culturally competent context, you get a better culturally competent context, you get a better outcome"? culturally competent context, you get a better outcome"? If culturally competent context, you get a better outcome"? If so, culturally competent context, you get a better outcome"? If so, what get a better outcome"? If so, what is get a better outcome"? If so, what is his get a better outcome"? If so, what is his plan get a better outcome"? If so, what is his plan to get a better outcome"? If so, what is his plan to get get a better outcome"? If so, what is his plan to get more get a better outcome"? If so, what is his plan to get more Maori is his plan to get more Maori doctors is his plan to get more Maori doctors into is his plan to get more Maori doctors into the is his plan to get more Maori doctors into the workforce is his plan to get more Maori doctors into the workforce following doctors into the workforce following the doctors into the workforce following the review? doctors into the workforce following the review? <INTERRUPTION> the review? <INTERRUPTION> OK. the review? <INTERRUPTION> OK. Alright. the review? <INTERRUPTION> OK. Alright. We're the review? <INTERRUPTION> OK. Alright. We're not the review? <INTERRUPTION> OK. Alright. We're not going the review? <INTERRUPTION> OK. Alright. We're not going to the review? <INTERRUPTION> OK. Alright. We're not going to have OK. Alright. We're not going to have outbursts OK. Alright. We're not going to have outbursts like OK. Alright. We're not going to have outbursts like that. OK. Alright. We're not going to have outbursts like that. I'd OK. Alright. We're not going to have outbursts like that. I'd ask OK. Alright. We're not going to have outbursts like that. I'd ask the outbursts like that. I'd ask the other outbursts like that. I'd ask the other side outbursts like that. I'd ask the other side of outbursts like that. I'd ask the other side of the outbursts like that. I'd ask the other side of the House outbursts like that. I'd ask the other side of the House to outbursts like that. I'd ask the other side of the House to keep other side of the House to keep those other side of the House to keep those interjections other side of the House to keep those interjections rare other side of the House to keep those interjections rare and those interjections rare and reasonable. those interjections rare and reasonable. On those interjections rare and reasonable. On behalf those interjections rare and reasonable. On behalf of those interjections rare and reasonable. On behalf of the reasonable. On behalf of the Minister reasonable. On behalf of the Minister of reasonable. On behalf of the Minister of Health reasonable. On behalf of the Minister of Health - reasonable. On behalf of the Minister of Health - we reasonable. On behalf of the Minister of Health - we don't reasonable. On behalf of the Minister of Health - we don't accept Minister of Health - we don't accept the Minister of Health - we don't accept the poor Minister of Health - we don't accept the poor outcomes Minister of Health - we don't accept the poor outcomes for Minister of Health - we don't accept the poor outcomes for Maori Minister of Health - we don't accept the poor outcomes for Maori in the poor outcomes for Maori in health, the poor outcomes for Maori in health, unlike the poor outcomes for Maori in health, unlike the the poor outcomes for Maori in health, unlike the last the poor outcomes for Maori in health, unlike the last government. health, unlike the last government. That's health, unlike the last government. That's why health, unlike the last government. That's why we're health, unlike the last government. That's why we're focused health, unlike the last government. That's why we're focused on health, unlike the last government. That's why we're focused on ensuring That's why we're focused on ensuring we That's why we're focused on ensuring we lift That's why we're focused on ensuring we lift health That's why we're focused on ensuring we lift health outcomes That's why we're focused on ensuring we lift health outcomes for That's why we're focused on ensuring we lift health outcomes for all That's why we're focused on ensuring we lift health outcomes for all New we lift health outcomes for all New Zealanders, we lift health outcomes for all New Zealanders, including we lift health outcomes for all New Zealanders, including Maori we lift health outcomes for all New Zealanders, including Maori and Zealanders, including Maori and Pasifika Zealanders, including Maori and Pasifika in Zealanders, including Maori and Pasifika in our Zealanders, including Maori and Pasifika in our communities Zealanders, including Maori and Pasifika in our communities in Zealanders, including Maori and Pasifika in our communities in need. Pasifika in our communities in need. The Pasifika in our communities in need. The Rt Pasifika in our communities in need. The Rt Hon Pasifika in our communities in need. The Rt Hon Winston Pasifika in our communities in need. The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Pasifika in our communities in need. The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can Pasifika in our communities in need. The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can I Pasifika in our communities in need. The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the Minister The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the Minister as The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the Minister as to The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the Minister as to whether The Rt Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the Minister as to whether his the Minister as to whether his inspiration the Minister as to whether his inspiration comes the Minister as to whether his inspiration comes from the Minister as to whether his inspiration comes from over the Minister as to whether his inspiration comes from over 100 inspiration comes from over 100 years inspiration comes from over 100 years ago, inspiration comes from over 100 years ago, when inspiration comes from over 100 years ago, when then-Minister inspiration comes from over 100 years ago, when then-Minister of years ago, when then-Minister of Health years ago, when then-Minister of Health who years ago, when then-Minister of Health who was years ago, when then-Minister of Health who was a years ago, when then-Minister of Health who was a Maori years ago, when then-Minister of Health who was a Maori called Health who was a Maori called Pomaori... Health who was a Maori called Pomaori... Sorry, Health who was a Maori called Pomaori... Sorry, we'll Health who was a Maori called Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start Health who was a Maori called Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start again. Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start again. You Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start again. You know Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start again. You know that's Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start again. You know that's a Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start again. You know that's a rule. Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start again. You know that's a rule. You Pomaori... Sorry, we'll start again. You know that's a rule. You don't You know that's a rule. You don't speak You know that's a rule. You don't speak while You know that's a rule. You don't speak while someone You know that's a rule. You don't speak while someone else You know that's a rule. You don't speak while someone else is You know that's a rule. You don't speak while someone else is asking You know that's a rule. You don't speak while someone else is asking a speak while someone else is asking a question. speak while someone else is asking a question. Don't speak while someone else is asking a question. Don't worry, speak while someone else is asking a question. Don't worry, I speak while someone else is asking a question. Don't worry, I can speak while someone else is asking a question. Don't worry, I can handle question. Don't worry, I can handle them question. Don't worry, I can handle them in question. Don't worry, I can handle them in my question. Don't worry, I can handle them in my sleep. question. Don't worry, I can handle them in my sleep. I question. Don't worry, I can handle them in my sleep. I know question. Don't worry, I can handle them in my sleep. I know you question. Don't worry, I can handle them in my sleep. I know you can them in my sleep. I know you can handle them in my sleep. I know you can handle it. them in my sleep. I know you can handle it. Start them in my sleep. I know you can handle it. Start the them in my sleep. I know you can handle it. Start the question them in my sleep. I know you can handle it. Start the question again. handle it. Start the question again. Can handle it. Start the question again. Can I handle it. Start the question again. Can I ask handle it. Start the question again. Can I ask the handle it. Start the question again. Can I ask the Minister handle it. Start the question again. Can I ask the Minister as handle it. Start the question again. Can I ask the Minister as to handle it. Start the question again. Can I ask the Minister as to whether Can I ask the Minister as to whether his Can I ask the Minister as to whether his inspiration Can I ask the Minister as to whether his inspiration is Can I ask the Minister as to whether his inspiration is the Can I ask the Minister as to whether his inspiration is the former his inspiration is the former brilliant his inspiration is the former brilliant Minister his inspiration is the former brilliant Minister of his inspiration is the former brilliant Minister of Health his inspiration is the former brilliant Minister of Health who his inspiration is the former brilliant Minister of Health who was brilliant Minister of Health who was a brilliant Minister of Health who was a Maori brilliant Minister of Health who was a Maori back brilliant Minister of Health who was a Maori back over brilliant Minister of Health who was a Maori back over 100 brilliant Minister of Health who was a Maori back over 100 years brilliant Minister of Health who was a Maori back over 100 years ago a Maori back over 100 years ago called a Maori back over 100 years ago called Pomaori, a Maori back over 100 years ago called Pomaori, who a Maori back over 100 years ago called Pomaori, who brought a Maori back over 100 years ago called Pomaori, who brought modern called Pomaori, who brought modern medicine called Pomaori, who brought modern medicine to called Pomaori, who brought modern medicine to Maori called Pomaori, who brought modern medicine to Maori - called Pomaori, who brought modern medicine to Maori - is called Pomaori, who brought modern medicine to Maori - is that called Pomaori, who brought modern medicine to Maori - is that his medicine to Maori - is that his intention medicine to Maori - is that his intention in medicine to Maori - is that his intention in 2024/25/26? medicine to Maori - is that his intention in 2024/25/26? On medicine to Maori - is that his intention in 2024/25/26? On behalf intention in 2024/25/26? On behalf of intention in 2024/25/26? On behalf of the intention in 2024/25/26? On behalf of the Minister intention in 2024/25/26? On behalf of the Minister of intention in 2024/25/26? On behalf of the Minister of Health, intention in 2024/25/26? On behalf of the Minister of Health, our of the Minister of Health, our aspiration of the Minister of Health, our aspiration is of the Minister of Health, our aspiration is to of the Minister of Health, our aspiration is to grow of the Minister of Health, our aspiration is to grow a of the Minister of Health, our aspiration is to grow a domestic aspiration is to grow a domestic pipeline aspiration is to grow a domestic pipeline of aspiration is to grow a domestic pipeline of representative aspiration is to grow a domestic pipeline of representative workforce pipeline of representative workforce for pipeline of representative workforce for New pipeline of representative workforce for New Zealanders. pipeline of representative workforce for New Zealanders. Question pipeline of representative workforce for New Zealanders. Question No. pipeline of representative workforce for New Zealanders. Question No. 3 pipeline of representative workforce for New Zealanders. Question No. 3 - for New Zealanders. Question No. 3 - the for New Zealanders. Question No. 3 - the Hon for New Zealanders. Question No. 3 - the Hon Barbara for New Zealanders. Question No. 3 - the Hon Barbara Edmonds. for New Zealanders. Question No. 3 - the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just for New Zealanders. Question No. 3 - the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just wait the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just wait for the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just wait for some the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just wait for some of the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just wait for some of your the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just wait for some of your colleagues the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just wait for some of your colleagues to the Hon Barbara Edmonds. Just wait for some of your colleagues to get for some of your colleagues to get themselves for some of your colleagues to get themselves under for some of your colleagues to get themselves under control... My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister of My question is to the Minister of Finance: Minister of Finance: Does Minister of Finance: Does she Minister of Finance: Does she agree Minister of Finance: Does she agree with Minister of Finance: Does she agree with the Does she agree with the Prime Does she agree with the Prime Minister's Does she agree with the Prime Minister's statement, Prime Minister's statement, "This Prime Minister's statement, "This is Prime Minister's statement, "This is a Prime Minister's statement, "This is a country Prime Minister's statement, "This is a country where Prime Minister's statement, "This is a country where our Prime Minister's statement, "This is a country where our economy "This is a country where our economy is "This is a country where our economy is in "This is a country where our economy is in real "This is a country where our economy is in real trouble. is in real trouble. This is in real trouble. This is is in real trouble. This is a is in real trouble. This is a country This is a country where This is a country where we This is a country where we cannot This is a country where we cannot deliver where we cannot deliver health where we cannot deliver health and where we cannot deliver health and education where we cannot deliver health and education services health and education services as health and education services as well health and education services as well as health and education services as well as we health and education services as well as we need health and education services as well as we need to"; as well as we need to"; if as well as we need to"; if not, as well as we need to"; if not, why as well as we need to"; if not, why not? The The Hon The Hon Simeon The Hon Simeon Brown. The Hon Simeon Brown. On The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf of The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf of the The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf of the Minister The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf of the Minister of The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf of the Minister of Finance The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf of the Minister of Finance - The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf of the Minister of Finance - yes, The Hon Simeon Brown. On behalf of the Minister of Finance - yes, we the Minister of Finance - yes, we inherited the Minister of Finance - yes, we inherited an the Minister of Finance - yes, we inherited an economy the Minister of Finance - yes, we inherited an economy in the Minister of Finance - yes, we inherited an economy in recession, the Minister of Finance - yes, we inherited an economy in recession, a inherited an economy in recession, a broken inherited an economy in recession, a broken health inherited an economy in recession, a broken health system inherited an economy in recession, a broken health system following inherited an economy in recession, a broken health system following a broken health system following a botched broken health system following a botched merger, broken health system following a botched merger, and broken health system following a botched merger, and an broken health system following a botched merger, and an education botched merger, and an education system botched merger, and an education system that's botched merger, and an education system that's been botched merger, and an education system that's been failing botched merger, and an education system that's been failing too botched merger, and an education system that's been failing too many system that's been failing too many children system that's been failing too many children for system that's been failing too many children for too system that's been failing too many children for too long. system that's been failing too many children for too long. But, system that's been failing too many children for too long. But, good children for too long. But, good news children for too long. But, good news - children for too long. But, good news - we've children for too long. But, good news - we've got children for too long. But, good news - we've got a children for too long. But, good news - we've got a plan children for too long. But, good news - we've got a plan to children for too long. But, good news - we've got a plan to turn news - we've got a plan to turn things news - we've got a plan to turn things around. news - we've got a plan to turn things around. We're news - we've got a plan to turn things around. We're fixing things around. We're fixing education. things around. We're fixing education. We're things around. We're fixing education. We're fixing things around. We're fixing education. We're fixing health. education. We're fixing health. We're education. We're fixing health. We're growing education. We're fixing health. We're growing the education. We're fixing health. We're growing the economy. education. We're fixing health. We're growing the economy. We're We're growing the economy. We're reining We're growing the economy. We're reining in We're growing the economy. We're reining in wasteless We're growing the economy. We're reining in wasteless spending, We're growing the economy. We're reining in wasteless spending, and reining in wasteless spending, and reducing reining in wasteless spending, and reducing the reining in wasteless spending, and reducing the amount reining in wasteless spending, and reducing the amount spent reining in wasteless spending, and reducing the amount spent on reducing the amount spent on external reducing the amount spent on external consultants. reducing the amount spent on external consultants. Unlike reducing the amount spent on external consultants. Unlike members external consultants. Unlike members opposite, external consultants. Unlike members opposite, who external consultants. Unlike members opposite, who seem external consultants. Unlike members opposite, who seem to external consultants. Unlike members opposite, who seem to outsource opposite, who seem to outsource economic opposite, who seem to outsource economic policy... opposite, who seem to outsource economic policy... That's opposite, who seem to outsource economic policy... That's enough. economic policy... That's enough. Thank economic policy... That's enough. Thank you. economic policy... That's enough. Thank you. Hon economic policy... That's enough. Thank you. Hon Barbara economic policy... That's enough. Thank you. Hon Barbara Edmonds. economic policy... That's enough. Thank you. Hon Barbara Edmonds. How Thank you. Hon Barbara Edmonds. How does Thank you. Hon Barbara Edmonds. How does stopping Thank you. Hon Barbara Edmonds. How does stopping the Thank you. Hon Barbara Edmonds. How does stopping the construction Thank you. Hon Barbara Edmonds. How does stopping the construction of does stopping the construction of schools, does stopping the construction of schools, hospitals, does stopping the construction of schools, hospitals, and does stopping the construction of schools, hospitals, and houses does stopping the construction of schools, hospitals, and houses - schools, hospitals, and houses - with schools, hospitals, and houses - with 6,000 schools, hospitals, and houses - with 6,000 people schools, hospitals, and houses - with 6,000 people in schools, hospitals, and houses - with 6,000 people in the with 6,000 people in the construction with 6,000 people in the construction industry with 6,000 people in the construction industry have with 6,000 people in the construction industry have lost construction industry have lost their construction industry have lost their jobs construction industry have lost their jobs - construction industry have lost their jobs - help construction industry have lost their jobs - help the construction industry have lost their jobs - help the economy? construction industry have lost their jobs - help the economy? We're their jobs - help the economy? We're not their jobs - help the economy? We're not stopping their jobs - help the economy? We're not stopping the their jobs - help the economy? We're not stopping the construction their jobs - help the economy? We're not stopping the construction - their jobs - help the economy? We're not stopping the construction - we not stopping the construction - we are not stopping the construction - we are actually not stopping the construction - we are actually getting not stopping the construction - we are actually getting on not stopping the construction - we are actually getting on and not stopping the construction - we are actually getting on and fixing are actually getting on and fixing the are actually getting on and fixing the fundamentals are actually getting on and fixing the fundamentals on are actually getting on and fixing the fundamentals on behalf are actually getting on and fixing the fundamentals on behalf of are actually getting on and fixing the fundamentals on behalf of the the fundamentals on behalf of the Minister the fundamentals on behalf of the Minister of the fundamentals on behalf of the Minister of Finance the fundamentals on behalf of the Minister of Finance - the fundamentals on behalf of the Minister of Finance - getting the fundamentals on behalf of the Minister of Finance - getting on the fundamentals on behalf of the Minister of Finance - getting on and Minister of Finance - getting on and fixing Minister of Finance - getting on and fixing the Minister of Finance - getting on and fixing the fundamentals Minister of Finance - getting on and fixing the fundamentals in Minister of Finance - getting on and fixing the fundamentals in this fixing the fundamentals in this economy. fixing the fundamentals in this economy. We fixing the fundamentals in this economy. We inherited fixing the fundamentals in this economy. We inherited an fixing the fundamentals in this economy. We inherited an economy economy. We inherited an economy which economy. We inherited an economy which was economy. We inherited an economy which was in economy. We inherited an economy which was in recession. economy. We inherited an economy which was in recession. Interest which was in recession. Interest rates which was in recession. Interest rates which which was in recession. Interest rates which were which was in recession. Interest rates which were at which was in recession. Interest rates which were at record which was in recession. Interest rates which were at record highs. rates which were at record highs. Inflation rates which were at record highs. Inflation which rates which were at record highs. Inflation which is rates which were at record highs. Inflation which is well rates which were at record highs. Inflation which is well outside rates which were at record highs. Inflation which is well outside the Inflation which is well outside the bounds. Inflation which is well outside the bounds. And Inflation which is well outside the bounds. And a Inflation which is well outside the bounds. And a previous Inflation which is well outside the bounds. And a previous government bounds. And a previous government which bounds. And a previous government which was bounds. And a previous government which was addicted bounds. And a previous government which was addicted to bounds. And a previous government which was addicted to spending. bounds. And a previous government which was addicted to spending. We which was addicted to spending. We are which was addicted to spending. We are turning which was addicted to spending. We are turning this which was addicted to spending. We are turning this country which was addicted to spending. We are turning this country around, are turning this country around, unlike are turning this country around, unlike the are turning this country around, unlike the mess are turning this country around, unlike the mess we've are turning this country around, unlike the mess we've got are turning this country around, unlike the mess we've got left unlike the mess we've got left behind. unlike the mess we've got left behind. Supplementary: unlike the mess we've got left behind. Supplementary: What behind. Supplementary: What estimates behind. Supplementary: What estimates has behind. Supplementary: What estimates has she behind. Supplementary: What estimates has she received behind. Supplementary: What estimates has she received of behind. Supplementary: What estimates has she received of the estimates has she received of the cost estimates has she received of the cost to estimates has she received of the cost to New estimates has she received of the cost to New Zealand estimates has she received of the cost to New Zealand businesses estimates has she received of the cost to New Zealand businesses and cost to New Zealand businesses and the cost to New Zealand businesses and the economy cost to New Zealand businesses and the economy of cost to New Zealand businesses and the economy of the cost to New Zealand businesses and the economy of the loss cost to New Zealand businesses and the economy of the loss of cost to New Zealand businesses and the economy of the loss of rail the economy of the loss of rail capability the economy of the loss of rail capability on the economy of the loss of rail capability on the the economy of the loss of rail capability on the inter-island capability on the inter-island ferries, capability on the inter-island ferries, given capability on the inter-island ferries, given those capability on the inter-island ferries, given those ferries ferries, given those ferries currently ferries, given those ferries currently carry ferries, given those ferries currently carry over ferries, given those ferries currently carry over 500,000m ferries, given those ferries currently carry over 500,000m of currently carry over 500,000m of train currently carry over 500,000m of train freight currently carry over 500,000m of train freight every currently carry over 500,000m of train freight every year. currently carry over 500,000m of train freight every year. On currently carry over 500,000m of train freight every year. On behalf train freight every year. On behalf of train freight every year. On behalf of the train freight every year. On behalf of the Minister train freight every year. On behalf of the Minister of train freight every year. On behalf of the Minister of Finance, train freight every year. On behalf of the Minister of Finance, I'm train freight every year. On behalf of the Minister of Finance, I'm not of the Minister of Finance, I'm not sure of the Minister of Finance, I'm not sure if of the Minister of Finance, I'm not sure if she's of the Minister of Finance, I'm not sure if she's realised, of the Minister of Finance, I'm not sure if she's realised, but of the Minister of Finance, I'm not sure if she's realised, but the sure if she's realised, but the ferries sure if she's realised, but the ferries are sure if she's realised, but the ferries are still sure if she's realised, but the ferries are still operating, ferries are still operating, providing ferries are still operating, providing freight ferries are still operating, providing freight services ferries are still operating, providing freight services between providing freight services between the providing freight services between the North providing freight services between the North and providing freight services between the North and South providing freight services between the North and South islands. providing freight services between the North and South islands. What the North and South islands. What we're the North and South islands. What we're doing the North and South islands. What we're doing is the North and South islands. What we're doing is we're the North and South islands. What we're doing is we're going the North and South islands. What we're doing is we're going through the North and South islands. What we're doing is we're going through a we're doing is we're going through a process we're doing is we're going through a process to we're doing is we're going through a process to secure we're doing is we're going through a process to secure the we're doing is we're going through a process to secure the resilience process to secure the resilience into process to secure the resilience into the process to secure the resilience into the future process to secure the resilience into the future but, process to secure the resilience into the future but, as process to secure the resilience into the future but, as Kiwi process to secure the resilience into the future but, as Kiwi rail into the future but, as Kiwi rail has into the future but, as Kiwi rail has made into the future but, as Kiwi rail has made very into the future but, as Kiwi rail has made very clear, into the future but, as Kiwi rail has made very clear, those into the future but, as Kiwi rail has made very clear, those ferries has made very clear, those ferries are has made very clear, those ferries are safe has made very clear, those ferries are safe to has made very clear, those ferries are safe to operate has made very clear, those ferries are safe to operate until has made very clear, those ferries are safe to operate until at has made very clear, those ferries are safe to operate until at least are safe to operate until at least 2029. are safe to operate until at least 2029. Supplementary are safe to operate until at least 2029. Supplementary - are safe to operate until at least 2029. Supplementary - What are safe to operate until at least 2029. Supplementary - What steps are safe to operate until at least 2029. Supplementary - What steps is 2029. Supplementary - What steps is the 2029. Supplementary - What steps is the Government 2029. Supplementary - What steps is the Government taking 2029. Supplementary - What steps is the Government taking to 2029. Supplementary - What steps is the Government taking to address 2029. Supplementary - What steps is the Government taking to address the the Government taking to address the critical the Government taking to address the critical funding the Government taking to address the critical funding shortages the Government taking to address the critical funding shortages faced the Government taking to address the critical funding shortages faced by critical funding shortages faced by St critical funding shortages faced by St John's critical funding shortages faced by St John's Ambulance critical funding shortages faced by St John's Ambulance services, critical funding shortages faced by St John's Ambulance services, which St John's Ambulance services, which has St John's Ambulance services, which has led St John's Ambulance services, which has led to St John's Ambulance services, which has led to the St John's Ambulance services, which has led to the national St John's Ambulance services, which has led to the national withdrawal has led to the national withdrawal of has led to the national withdrawal of labour has led to the national withdrawal of labour of has led to the national withdrawal of labour of over has led to the national withdrawal of labour of over 2,500 has led to the national withdrawal of labour of over 2,500 ambulance of labour of over 2,500 ambulance officers? of labour of over 2,500 ambulance officers? On of labour of over 2,500 ambulance officers? On behalf of labour of over 2,500 ambulance officers? On behalf of of labour of over 2,500 ambulance officers? On behalf of the of labour of over 2,500 ambulance officers? On behalf of the Minister officers? On behalf of the Minister of officers? On behalf of the Minister of Finance, officers? On behalf of the Minister of Finance, I officers? On behalf of the Minister of Finance, I encourage officers? On behalf of the Minister of Finance, I encourage the officers? On behalf of the Minister of Finance, I encourage the member of Finance, I encourage the member to of Finance, I encourage the member to put of Finance, I encourage the member to put questions, of Finance, I encourage the member to put questions, specific of Finance, I encourage the member to put questions, specific issues to put questions, specific issues like to put questions, specific issues like that to put questions, specific issues like that in to put questions, specific issues like that in writing. to put questions, specific issues like that in writing. But to put questions, specific issues like that in writing. But what to put questions, specific issues like that in writing. But what I like that in writing. But what I would like that in writing. But what I would say like that in writing. But what I would say is like that in writing. But what I would say is we've like that in writing. But what I would say is we've inherited like that in writing. But what I would say is we've inherited a like that in writing. But what I would say is we've inherited a real would say is we've inherited a real tough would say is we've inherited a real tough situation would say is we've inherited a real tough situation in would say is we've inherited a real tough situation in our would say is we've inherited a real tough situation in our health tough situation in our health system, tough situation in our health system, left tough situation in our health system, left behind tough situation in our health system, left behind by tough situation in our health system, left behind by a tough situation in our health system, left behind by a previous system, left behind by a previous government system, left behind by a previous government which system, left behind by a previous government which decided system, left behind by a previous government which decided that system, left behind by a previous government which decided that the government which decided that the best government which decided that the best time government which decided that the best time to government which decided that the best time to reorganise government which decided that the best time to reorganise the government which decided that the best time to reorganise the health best time to reorganise the health system best time to reorganise the health system was best time to reorganise the health system was during best time to reorganise the health system was during the best time to reorganise the health system was during the middle best time to reorganise the health system was during the middle of best time to reorganise the health system was during the middle of a system was during the middle of a pandemic. system was during the middle of a pandemic. The system was during the middle of a pandemic. The Hon system was during the middle of a pandemic. The Hon Barbara system was during the middle of a pandemic. The Hon Barbara Edmonds. pandemic. The Hon Barbara Edmonds. Are pandemic. The Hon Barbara Edmonds. Are they pandemic. The Hon Barbara Edmonds. Are they not pandemic. The Hon Barbara Edmonds. Are they not delivering pandemic. The Hon Barbara Edmonds. Are they not delivering in pandemic. The Hon Barbara Edmonds. Are they not delivering in health Are they not delivering in health because Are they not delivering in health because her Are they not delivering in health because her government Are they not delivering in health because her government is Are they not delivering in health because her government is leaving because her government is leaving clinics because her government is leaving clinics like because her government is leaving clinics like those because her government is leaving clinics like those in because her government is leaving clinics like those in Dargaville, clinics like those in Dargaville, wailsford, clinics like those in Dargaville, wailsford, kin clinics like those in Dargaville, wailsford, kin Peru, clinics like those in Dargaville, wailsford, kin Peru, Napier clinics like those in Dargaville, wailsford, kin Peru, Napier and wailsford, kin Peru, Napier and Rotorua wailsford, kin Peru, Napier and Rotorua unstaffed wailsford, kin Peru, Napier and Rotorua unstaffed overnight? wailsford, kin Peru, Napier and Rotorua unstaffed overnight? On Rotorua unstaffed overnight? On behalf Rotorua unstaffed overnight? On behalf of Rotorua unstaffed overnight? On behalf of the Rotorua unstaffed overnight? On behalf of the Minister Rotorua unstaffed overnight? On behalf of the Minister of Rotorua unstaffed overnight? On behalf of the Minister of Finance Rotorua unstaffed overnight? On behalf of the Minister of Finance - behalf of the Minister of Finance - we behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited a behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited a mess behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited a mess when behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited a mess when it we have inherited a mess when it comes we have inherited a mess when it comes to we have inherited a mess when it comes to our we have inherited a mess when it comes to our health we have inherited a mess when it comes to our health system. we have inherited a mess when it comes to our health system. And we have inherited a mess when it comes to our health system. And this comes to our health system. And this Government comes to our health system. And this Government has comes to our health system. And this Government has a comes to our health system. And this Government has a plan comes to our health system. And this Government has a plan to comes to our health system. And this Government has a plan to turn comes to our health system. And this Government has a plan to turn it Government has a plan to turn it around. Government has a plan to turn it around. <INTERRUPTION> around. <INTERRUPTION> But around. <INTERRUPTION> But unlike around. <INTERRUPTION> But unlike the around. <INTERRUPTION> But unlike the previous around. <INTERRUPTION> But unlike the previous government, But unlike the previous government, who But unlike the previous government, who decided But unlike the previous government, who decided the But unlike the previous government, who decided the best But unlike the previous government, who decided the best time But unlike the previous government, who decided the best time to who decided the best time to reorganise who decided the best time to reorganise the who decided the best time to reorganise the health who decided the best time to reorganise the health system who decided the best time to reorganise the health system was reorganise the health system was during reorganise the health system was during the reorganise the health system was during the middle reorganise the health system was during the middle of reorganise the health system was during the middle of a reorganise the health system was during the middle of a pandemic. during the middle of a pandemic. It's during the middle of a pandemic. It's unbelievable, during the middle of a pandemic. It's unbelievable, the during the middle of a pandemic. It's unbelievable, the mess during the middle of a pandemic. It's unbelievable, the mess that during the middle of a pandemic. It's unbelievable, the mess that was It's unbelievable, the mess that was left It's unbelievable, the mess that was left behind It's unbelievable, the mess that was left behind and It's unbelievable, the mess that was left behind and the It's unbelievable, the mess that was left behind and the challenges It's unbelievable, the mess that was left behind and the challenges that left behind and the challenges that this left behind and the challenges that this Government left behind and the challenges that this Government is left behind and the challenges that this Government is having left behind and the challenges that this Government is having to left behind and the challenges that this Government is having to clean this Government is having to clean up. this Government is having to clean up. But this Government is having to clean up. But we, this Government is having to clean up. But we, unlike this Government is having to clean up. But we, unlike them, this Government is having to clean up. But we, unlike them, have this Government is having to clean up. But we, unlike them, have a up. But we, unlike them, have a plan. up. But we, unlike them, have a plan. Supplementary: up. But we, unlike them, have a plan. Supplementary: Does up. But we, unlike them, have a plan. Supplementary: Does she plan. Supplementary: Does she believe plan. Supplementary: Does she believe the plan. Supplementary: Does she believe the Qatar plan. Supplementary: Does she believe the Qatar that plan. Supplementary: Does she believe the Qatar that has plan. Supplementary: Does she believe the Qatar that has shut plan. Supplementary: Does she believe the Qatar that has shut down believe the Qatar that has shut down because believe the Qatar that has shut down because of believe the Qatar that has shut down because of her believe the Qatar that has shut down because of her cuts believe the Qatar that has shut down because of her cuts after believe the Qatar that has shut down because of her cuts after 20 believe the Qatar that has shut down because of her cuts after 20 years because of her cuts after 20 years of because of her cuts after 20 years of social because of her cuts after 20 years of social service because of her cuts after 20 years of social service is because of her cuts after 20 years of social service is a because of her cuts after 20 years of social service is a cash because of her cuts after 20 years of social service is a cash cow? of social service is a cash cow? What of social service is a cash cow? What does of social service is a cash cow? What does she of social service is a cash cow? What does she say of social service is a cash cow? What does she say to of social service is a cash cow? What does she say to the of social service is a cash cow? What does she say to the tens of social service is a cash cow? What does she say to the tens of What does she say to the tens of thousands What does she say to the tens of thousands of What does she say to the tens of thousands of parents What does she say to the tens of thousands of parents who What does she say to the tens of thousands of parents who have thousands of parents who have benefited thousands of parents who have benefited from thousands of parents who have benefited from their thousands of parents who have benefited from their support? thousands of parents who have benefited from their support? Again, benefited from their support? Again, on benefited from their support? Again, on behalf benefited from their support? Again, on behalf of benefited from their support? Again, on behalf of the benefited from their support? Again, on behalf of the Minister benefited from their support? Again, on behalf of the Minister of benefited from their support? Again, on behalf of the Minister of Finance on behalf of the Minister of Finance - on behalf of the Minister of Finance - we on behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have on behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited on behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited a on behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited a number on behalf of the Minister of Finance - we have inherited a number of - we have inherited a number of challenges - we have inherited a number of challenges as - we have inherited a number of challenges as a - we have inherited a number of challenges as a Government - we have inherited a number of challenges as a Government which - we have inherited a number of challenges as a Government which we challenges as a Government which we are challenges as a Government which we are having challenges as a Government which we are having to challenges as a Government which we are having to clean challenges as a Government which we are having to clean up challenges as a Government which we are having to clean up with challenges as a Government which we are having to clean up with the challenges as a Government which we are having to clean up with the mess are having to clean up with the mess left are having to clean up with the mess left behind are having to clean up with the mess left behind by are having to clean up with the mess left behind by the are having to clean up with the mess left behind by the previous left behind by the previous government. left behind by the previous government. <INTERRUPTION> government. <INTERRUPTION> They government. <INTERRUPTION> They were government. <INTERRUPTION> They were spending government. <INTERRUPTION> They were spending like government. <INTERRUPTION> They were spending like drunken They were spending like drunken sailors, They were spending like drunken sailors, they They were spending like drunken sailors, they were They were spending like drunken sailors, they were borrowing, They were spending like drunken sailors, they were borrowing, they sailors, they were borrowing, they had sailors, they were borrowing, they had interest sailors, they were borrowing, they had interest rates sailors, they were borrowing, they had interest rates and sailors, they were borrowing, they had interest rates and inflation had interest rates and inflation through had interest rates and inflation through the had interest rates and inflation through the roof, had interest rates and inflation through the roof, and had interest rates and inflation through the roof, and this through the roof, and this Government through the roof, and this Government has through the roof, and this Government has been through the roof, and this Government has been elected through the roof, and this Government has been elected to through the roof, and this Government has been elected to fix Government has been elected to fix this Government has been elected to fix this economy Government has been elected to fix this economy to Government has been elected to fix this economy to ensure Government has been elected to fix this economy to ensure our Government has been elected to fix this economy to ensure our public this economy to ensure our public services this economy to ensure our public services are this economy to ensure our public services are delivering this economy to ensure our public services are delivering on this economy to ensure our public services are delivering on the this economy to ensure our public services are delivering on the front services are delivering on the front line services are delivering on the front line for services are delivering on the front line for New services are delivering on the front line for New Zealanders. services are delivering on the front line for New Zealanders. But services are delivering on the front line for New Zealanders. But we services are delivering on the front line for New Zealanders. But we have line for New Zealanders. But we have a line for New Zealanders. But we have a huge line for New Zealanders. But we have a huge mess line for New Zealanders. But we have a huge mess to line for New Zealanders. But we have a huge mess to clean line for New Zealanders. But we have a huge mess to clean up. a huge mess to clean up. Supplementary: a huge mess to clean up. Supplementary: How a huge mess to clean up. Supplementary: How does a huge mess to clean up. Supplementary: How does giving a huge mess to clean up. Supplementary: How does giving the Supplementary: How does giving the tobacco Supplementary: How does giving the tobacco industry Supplementary: How does giving the tobacco industry a Supplementary: How does giving the tobacco industry a $216 Supplementary: How does giving the tobacco industry a $216 million Supplementary: How does giving the tobacco industry a $216 million tax tobacco industry a $216 million tax break tobacco industry a $216 million tax break - tobacco industry a $216 million tax break - leaving tobacco industry a $216 million tax break - leaving less tobacco industry a $216 million tax break - leaving less money tobacco industry a $216 million tax break - leaving less money for break - leaving less money for health break - leaving less money for health - break - leaving less money for health - help break - leaving less money for health - help the break - leaving less money for health - help the economy? break - leaving less money for health - help the economy? On break - leaving less money for health - help the economy? On behalf health - help the economy? On behalf of health - help the economy? On behalf of the health - help the economy? On behalf of the Minister health - help the economy? On behalf of the Minister of health - help the economy? On behalf of the Minister of Finance health - help the economy? On behalf of the Minister of Finance - health - help the economy? On behalf of the Minister of Finance - there's of the Minister of Finance - there's a of the Minister of Finance - there's a range of the Minister of Finance - there's a range of of the Minister of Finance - there's a range of assumptions of the Minister of Finance - there's a range of assumptions in of the Minister of Finance - there's a range of assumptions in that a range of assumptions in that particular a range of assumptions in that particular question, a range of assumptions in that particular question, but a range of assumptions in that particular question, but what a range of assumptions in that particular question, but what we a range of assumptions in that particular question, but what we are particular question, but what we are very particular question, but what we are very focused particular question, but what we are very focused on particular question, but what we are very focused on is particular question, but what we are very focused on is reducing particular question, but what we are very focused on is reducing smoking very focused on is reducing smoking rates. very focused on is reducing smoking rates. We've very focused on is reducing smoking rates. We've got very focused on is reducing smoking rates. We've got a very focused on is reducing smoking rates. We've got a plan very focused on is reducing smoking rates. We've got a plan to very focused on is reducing smoking rates. We've got a plan to address rates. We've got a plan to address that rates. We've got a plan to address that on rates. We've got a plan to address that on this rates. We've got a plan to address that on this side rates. We've got a plan to address that on this side of rates. We've got a plan to address that on this side of the rates. We've got a plan to address that on this side of the House. rates. We've got a plan to address that on this side of the House. But that on this side of the House. But we've that on this side of the House. But we've also that on this side of the House. But we've also got that on this side of the House. But we've also got a that on this side of the House. But we've also got a range that on this side of the House. But we've also got a range of that on this side of the House. But we've also got a range of challenges we've also got a range of challenges that we've also got a range of challenges that we we've also got a range of challenges that we need we've also got a range of challenges that we need to we've also got a range of challenges that we need to sort we've also got a range of challenges that we need to sort out, we've also got a range of challenges that we need to sort out, and we've also got a range of challenges that we need to sort out, and we've that we need to sort out, and we've been that we need to sort out, and we've been elected that we need to sort out, and we've been elected to that we need to sort out, and we've been elected to fix that we need to sort out, and we've been elected to fix it. that we need to sort out, and we've been elected to fix it. If that we need to sort out, and we've been elected to fix it. If this that we need to sort out, and we've been elected to fix it. If this last been elected to fix it. If this last government been elected to fix it. If this last government was been elected to fix it. If this last government was still been elected to fix it. If this last government was still in been elected to fix it. If this last government was still in charge, government was still in charge, they'd government was still in charge, they'd be government was still in charge, they'd be spending government was still in charge, they'd be spending more, government was still in charge, they'd be spending more, they'd government was still in charge, they'd be spending more, they'd be they'd be spending more, they'd be taxing they'd be spending more, they'd be taxing more, they'd be spending more, they'd be taxing more, and they'd be spending more, they'd be taxing more, and delivering they'd be spending more, they'd be taxing more, and delivering less. taxing more, and delivering less. Point taxing more, and delivering less. Point of taxing more, and delivering less. Point of order. taxing more, and delivering less. Point of order. Point taxing more, and delivering less. Point of order. Point of taxing more, and delivering less. Point of order. Point of order, taxing more, and delivering less. Point of order. Point of order, the Point of order. Point of order, the Hon Point of order. Point of order, the Hon Dr Point of order. Point of order, the Hon Dr Duncan Point of order. Point of order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Point of order. Point of order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That Point of order. Point of order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That member, Point of order. Point of order, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That member, in Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That member, in his Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That member, in his answers, Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That member, in his answers, has Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That member, in his answers, has largely Hon Dr Duncan Webb. That member, in his answers, has largely attacked his answers, has largely attacked the his answers, has largely attacked the former his answers, has largely attacked the former government. his answers, has largely attacked the former government. And his answers, has largely attacked the former government. And I his answers, has largely attacked the former government. And I have the former government. And I have tried the former government. And I have tried not the former government. And I have tried not to the former government. And I have tried not to intervene the former government. And I have tried not to intervene to the former government. And I have tried not to intervene to try the former government. And I have tried not to intervene to try and tried not to intervene to try and not tried not to intervene to try and not interrupt tried not to intervene to try and not interrupt and tried not to intervene to try and not interrupt and disturb tried not to intervene to try and not interrupt and disturb the not interrupt and disturb the dignity not interrupt and disturb the dignity of not interrupt and disturb the dignity of the not interrupt and disturb the dignity of the House, not interrupt and disturb the dignity of the House, but not interrupt and disturb the dignity of the House, but he's dignity of the House, but he's continued dignity of the House, but he's continued to dignity of the House, but he's continued to do dignity of the House, but he's continued to do it, dignity of the House, but he's continued to do it, and dignity of the House, but he's continued to do it, and you've dignity of the House, but he's continued to do it, and you've said continued to do it, and you've said repeatedly continued to do it, and you've said repeatedly that continued to do it, and you've said repeatedly that it's continued to do it, and you've said repeatedly that it's inappropriate. repeatedly that it's inappropriate. Well, repeatedly that it's inappropriate. Well, I repeatedly that it's inappropriate. Well, I think repeatedly that it's inappropriate. Well, I think the repeatedly that it's inappropriate. Well, I think the point repeatedly that it's inappropriate. Well, I think the point is repeatedly that it's inappropriate. Well, I think the point is - repeatedly that it's inappropriate. Well, I think the point is - the Well, I think the point is - the member Well, I think the point is - the member himself Well, I think the point is - the member himself took Well, I think the point is - the member himself took a Well, I think the point is - the member himself took a point Well, I think the point is - the member himself took a point of Well, I think the point is - the member himself took a point of order member himself took a point of order before member himself took a point of order before to member himself took a point of order before to say member himself took a point of order before to say that member himself took a point of order before to say that words member himself took a point of order before to say that words matter, member himself took a point of order before to say that words matter, and before to say that words matter, and they before to say that words matter, and they do. before to say that words matter, and they do. I've before to say that words matter, and they do. I've also, before to say that words matter, and they do. I've also, in before to say that words matter, and they do. I've also, in the before to say that words matter, and they do. I've also, in the past, they do. I've also, in the past, said they do. I've also, in the past, said it's they do. I've also, in the past, said it's not they do. I've also, in the past, said it's not unreasonable, they do. I've also, in the past, said it's not unreasonable, and said it's not unreasonable, and other said it's not unreasonable, and other speakers said it's not unreasonable, and other speakers have said it's not unreasonable, and other speakers have said said it's not unreasonable, and other speakers have said this said it's not unreasonable, and other speakers have said this before other speakers have said this before me, other speakers have said this before me, for other speakers have said this before me, for governments other speakers have said this before me, for governments to other speakers have said this before me, for governments to refer other speakers have said this before me, for governments to refer to me, for governments to refer to previous me, for governments to refer to previous administrations. me, for governments to refer to previous administrations. It's me, for governments to refer to previous administrations. It's a previous administrations. It's a matter previous administrations. It's a matter of previous administrations. It's a matter of how previous administrations. It's a matter of how that previous administrations. It's a matter of how that is previous administrations. It's a matter of how that is done. previous administrations. It's a matter of how that is done. And previous administrations. It's a matter of how that is done. And I matter of how that is done. And I think matter of how that is done. And I think saying matter of how that is done. And I think saying that matter of how that is done. And I think saying that a matter of how that is done. And I think saying that a circumstance matter of how that is done. And I think saying that a circumstance was think saying that a circumstance was inherited think saying that a circumstance was inherited hardly think saying that a circumstance was inherited hardly breaches think saying that a circumstance was inherited hardly breaches that inherited hardly breaches that particular inherited hardly breaches that particular provision. inherited hardly breaches that particular provision. But inherited hardly breaches that particular provision. But I inherited hardly breaches that particular provision. But I would particular provision. But I would suggest particular provision. But I would suggest the particular provision. But I would suggest the Minister particular provision. But I would suggest the Minister makes particular provision. But I would suggest the Minister makes his suggest the Minister makes his answers suggest the Minister makes his answers slightly suggest the Minister makes his answers slightly briefer, suggest the Minister makes his answers slightly briefer, or suggest the Minister makes his answers slightly briefer, or offers answers slightly briefer, or offers them answers slightly briefer, or offers them more answers slightly briefer, or offers them more briefly answers slightly briefer, or offers them more briefly than answers slightly briefer, or offers them more briefly than he answers slightly briefer, or offers them more briefly than he has answers slightly briefer, or offers them more briefly than he has been them more briefly than he has been at them more briefly than he has been at the them more briefly than he has been at the moment. them more briefly than he has been at the moment. Have them more briefly than he has been at the moment. Have we them more briefly than he has been at the moment. Have we got them more briefly than he has been at the moment. Have we got any at the moment. Have we got any further at the moment. Have we got any further questions at the moment. Have we got any further questions on at the moment. Have we got any further questions on that? at the moment. Have we got any further questions on that? Good. at the moment. Have we got any further questions on that? Good. We further questions on that? Good. We move further questions on that? Good. We move to further questions on that? Good. We move to question further questions on that? Good. We move to question No. further questions on that? Good. We move to question No. 4 further questions on that? Good. We move to question No. 4 - further questions on that? Good. We move to question No. 4 - Vanessa move to question No. 4 - Vanessa Weenink. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister for My question is to the Minister for Social My question is to the Minister for Social Development Minister for Social Development and Minister for Social Development and Employment: and Employment: What and Employment: What steps and Employment: What steps is and Employment: What steps is the and Employment: What steps is the Government and Employment: What steps is the Government taking What steps is the Government taking to What steps is the Government taking to support What steps is the Government taking to support people to support people on to support people on the to support people on the jobseeker to support people on the jobseeker benefit to support people on the jobseeker benefit into to support people on the jobseeker benefit into work? The The Hon The Hon Louise The Hon Louise Upston. The Hon Louise Upston. The The Hon Louise Upston. The Coalition The Hon Louise Upston. The Coalition Government The Hon Louise Upston. The Coalition Government has The Hon Louise Upston. The Coalition Government has delivered The Hon Louise Upston. The Coalition Government has delivered a The Hon Louise Upston. The Coalition Government has delivered a series The Hon Louise Upston. The Coalition Government has delivered a series of Government has delivered a series of initiatives Government has delivered a series of initiatives to Government has delivered a series of initiatives to support Government has delivered a series of initiatives to support Jobseekers initiatives to support Jobseekers into initiatives to support Jobseekers into work. initiatives to support Jobseekers into work. Recently, initiatives to support Jobseekers into work. Recently, we initiatives to support Jobseekers into work. Recently, we established into work. Recently, we established a into work. Recently, we established a new into work. Recently, we established a new over-the-phone into work. Recently, we established a new over-the-phone case into work. Recently, we established a new over-the-phone case management a new over-the-phone case management service a new over-the-phone case management service for a new over-the-phone case management service for 4,000 a new over-the-phone case management service for 4,000 young a new over-the-phone case management service for 4,000 young Jobseekers, service for 4,000 young Jobseekers, and service for 4,000 young Jobseekers, and expanded service for 4,000 young Jobseekers, and expanded the service for 4,000 young Jobseekers, and expanded the number service for 4,000 young Jobseekers, and expanded the number of service for 4,000 young Jobseekers, and expanded the number of places and expanded the number of places for and expanded the number of places for young and expanded the number of places for young job and expanded the number of places for young job seekers and expanded the number of places for young job seekers in for young job seekers in community-led for young job seekers in community-led employment for young job seekers in community-led employment programmes community-led employment programmes with community-led employment programmes with coaching community-led employment programmes with coaching by community-led employment programmes with coaching by 2,100. community-led employment programmes with coaching by 2,100. We community-led employment programmes with coaching by 2,100. We have community-led employment programmes with coaching by 2,100. We have also with coaching by 2,100. We have also introduced with coaching by 2,100. We have also introduced work with coaching by 2,100. We have also introduced work check-in with coaching by 2,100. We have also introduced work check-in seminars introduced work check-in seminars that introduced work check-in seminars that people introduced work check-in seminars that people must introduced work check-in seminars that people must check introduced work check-in seminars that people must check in introduced work check-in seminars that people must check in after introduced work check-in seminars that people must check in after two that people must check in after two weeks that people must check in after two weeks of that people must check in after two weeks of receiving that people must check in after two weeks of receiving benefit that people must check in after two weeks of receiving benefit and that people must check in after two weeks of receiving benefit and again weeks of receiving benefit and again after weeks of receiving benefit and again after six weeks of receiving benefit and again after six months. weeks of receiving benefit and again after six months. Our weeks of receiving benefit and again after six months. Our Government weeks of receiving benefit and again after six months. Our Government is after six months. Our Government is working after six months. Our Government is working hard after six months. Our Government is working hard to after six months. Our Government is working hard to make after six months. Our Government is working hard to make changes after six months. Our Government is working hard to make changes to after six months. Our Government is working hard to make changes to the working hard to make changes to the welfare working hard to make changes to the welfare system working hard to make changes to the welfare system to working hard to make changes to the welfare system to ensure working hard to make changes to the welfare system to ensure New welfare system to ensure New Zealanders welfare system to ensure New Zealanders are welfare system to ensure New Zealanders are able welfare system to ensure New Zealanders are able to welfare system to ensure New Zealanders are able to reap welfare system to ensure New Zealanders are able to reap the Zealanders are able to reap the rewards Zealanders are able to reap the rewards and Zealanders are able to reap the rewards and opportunities Zealanders are able to reap the rewards and opportunities of Zealanders are able to reap the rewards and opportunities of work. rewards and opportunities of work. Supplementary: rewards and opportunities of work. Supplementary: What rewards and opportunities of work. Supplementary: What are rewards and opportunities of work. Supplementary: What are the rewards and opportunities of work. Supplementary: What are the key Supplementary: What are the key features Supplementary: What are the key features of Supplementary: What are the key features of the Supplementary: What are the key features of the community Supplementary: What are the key features of the community coaching features of the community coaching the features of the community coaching the Minister features of the community coaching the Minister has features of the community coaching the Minister has announced features of the community coaching the Minister has announced as features of the community coaching the Minister has announced as part the Minister has announced as part of the Minister has announced as part of the the Minister has announced as part of the Government's the Minister has announced as part of the Government's welfare the Minister has announced as part of the Government's welfare that of the Government's welfare that works? of the Government's welfare that works? This of the Government's welfare that works? This is of the Government's welfare that works? This is our of the Government's welfare that works? This is our Government's of the Government's welfare that works? This is our Government's new works? This is our Government's new approach works? This is our Government's new approach that works? This is our Government's new approach that will works? This is our Government's new approach that will see works? This is our Government's new approach that will see more works? This is our Government's new approach that will see more funding approach that will see more funding for approach that will see more funding for community approach that will see more funding for community with approach that will see more funding for community with a approach that will see more funding for community with a prove approach that will see more funding for community with a prove -- for community with a prove -- organisations for community with a prove -- organisations with for community with a prove -- organisations with a for community with a prove -- organisations with a proven for community with a prove -- organisations with a proven track organisations with a proven track record organisations with a proven track record of organisations with a proven track record of supporting organisations with a proven track record of supporting young organisations with a proven track record of supporting young people record of supporting young people off record of supporting young people off welfare. record of supporting young people off welfare. This record of supporting young people off welfare. This will record of supporting young people off welfare. This will see record of supporting young people off welfare. This will see more off welfare. This will see more young off welfare. This will see more young people off welfare. This will see more young people getting off welfare. This will see more young people getting a off welfare. This will see more young people getting a needs young people getting a needs assessment, young people getting a needs assessment, a young people getting a needs assessment, a job young people getting a needs assessment, a job plan, young people getting a needs assessment, a job plan, and young people getting a needs assessment, a job plan, and tailored assessment, a job plan, and tailored support assessment, a job plan, and tailored support - assessment, a job plan, and tailored support - including assessment, a job plan, and tailored support - including job assessment, a job plan, and tailored support - including job coaching assessment, a job plan, and tailored support - including job coaching - support - including job coaching - to support - including job coaching - to help support - including job coaching - to help them support - including job coaching - to help them access support - including job coaching - to help them access employment to help them access employment opportunities. to help them access employment opportunities. This to help them access employment opportunities. This programme opportunities. This programme highlights opportunities. This programme highlights our opportunities. This programme highlights our Government's highlights our Government's commitment highlights our Government's commitment to highlights our Government's commitment to putting highlights our Government's commitment to putting young highlights our Government's commitment to putting young people commitment to putting young people on commitment to putting young people on a commitment to putting young people on a pathway commitment to putting young people on a pathway to commitment to putting young people on a pathway to a commitment to putting young people on a pathway to a better commitment to putting young people on a pathway to a better future on a pathway to a better future through on a pathway to a better future through work. on a pathway to a better future through work. Why on a pathway to a better future through work. Why has on a pathway to a better future through work. Why has the on a pathway to a better future through work. Why has the Minister through work. Why has the Minister chosen through work. Why has the Minister chosen potongue through work. Why has the Minister chosen potongue rangatahi through work. Why has the Minister chosen potongue rangatahi providers chosen potongue rangatahi providers for chosen potongue rangatahi providers for this chosen potongue rangatahi providers for this programme? chosen potongue rangatahi providers for this programme? 500 chosen potongue rangatahi providers for this programme? 500 places chosen potongue rangatahi providers for this programme? 500 places for for this programme? 500 places for the for this programme? 500 places for the community-led for this programme? 500 places for the community-led programmes for this programme? 500 places for the community-led programmes will for this programme? 500 places for the community-led programmes will be the community-led programmes will be with the community-led programmes will be with a the community-led programmes will be with a selection the community-led programmes will be with a selection of the community-led programmes will be with a selection of hypotum with a selection of hypotum rangatahi, with a selection of hypotum rangatahi, which with a selection of hypotum rangatahi, which was with a selection of hypotum rangatahi, which was launched with a selection of hypotum rangatahi, which was launched by with a selection of hypotum rangatahi, which was launched by the rangatahi, which was launched by the previous rangatahi, which was launched by the previous National rangatahi, which was launched by the previous National government rangatahi, which was launched by the previous National government in previous National government in 2017. previous National government in 2017. For previous National government in 2017. For people previous National government in 2017. For people aged previous National government in 2017. For people aged 18-24 previous National government in 2017. For people aged 18-24 who've 2017. For people aged 18-24 who've been 2017. For people aged 18-24 who've been on 2017. For people aged 18-24 who've been on Jobseeker 2017. For people aged 18-24 who've been on Jobseeker support 2017. For people aged 18-24 who've been on Jobseeker support longer been on Jobseeker support longer than been on Jobseeker support longer than a been on Jobseeker support longer than a year. been on Jobseeker support longer than a year. We been on Jobseeker support longer than a year. We know been on Jobseeker support longer than a year. We know that been on Jobseeker support longer than a year. We know that 77% been on Jobseeker support longer than a year. We know that 77% of than a year. We know that 77% of participants than a year. We know that 77% of participants in than a year. We know that 77% of participants in this than a year. We know that 77% of participants in this programme than a year. We know that 77% of participants in this programme are participants in this programme are Maori. participants in this programme are Maori. I participants in this programme are Maori. I am participants in this programme are Maori. I am concerned participants in this programme are Maori. I am concerned about participants in this programme are Maori. I am concerned about the Maori. I am concerned about the increasing Maori. I am concerned about the increasing number Maori. I am concerned about the increasing number of Maori. I am concerned about the increasing number of Maori increasing number of Maori Jobseekers. increasing number of Maori Jobseekers. Community increasing number of Maori Jobseekers. Community coaching Jobseekers. Community coaching delivered Jobseekers. Community coaching delivered through Jobseekers. Community coaching delivered through hypotongue Jobseekers. Community coaching delivered through hypotongue rung delivered through hypotongue rung tu-Hie delivered through hypotongue rung tu-Hie Hie delivered through hypotongue rung tu-Hie Hie will delivered through hypotongue rung tu-Hie Hie will improve delivered through hypotongue rung tu-Hie Hie will improve their tu-Hie Hie will improve their choices tu-Hie Hie will improve their choices and tu-Hie Hie will improve their choices and help tu-Hie Hie will improve their choices and help head tu-Hie Hie will improve their choices and help head them tu-Hie Hie will improve their choices and help head them reach choices and help head them reach their choices and help head them reach their potential. choices and help head them reach their potential. What choices and help head them reach their potential. What is choices and help head them reach their potential. What is the their potential. What is the Jobseeker their potential. What is the Jobseeker situation their potential. What is the Jobseeker situation now? their potential. What is the Jobseeker situation now? The Jobseeker situation now? The situation Jobseeker situation now? The situation we've Jobseeker situation now? The situation we've inherited Jobseeker situation now? The situation we've inherited means situation we've inherited means inevitably situation we've inherited means inevitably Jobseeker situation we've inherited means inevitably Jobseeker numbers situation we've inherited means inevitably Jobseeker numbers were inevitably Jobseeker numbers were expected inevitably Jobseeker numbers were expected to inevitably Jobseeker numbers were expected to increase inevitably Jobseeker numbers were expected to increase until inevitably Jobseeker numbers were expected to increase until January expected to increase until January 2025 expected to increase until January 2025 before expected to increase until January 2025 before decreasing. expected to increase until January 2025 before decreasing. We expected to increase until January 2025 before decreasing. We know 2025 before decreasing. We know Jobseekers 2025 before decreasing. We know Jobseekers are 2025 before decreasing. We know Jobseekers are vulnerable 2025 before decreasing. We know Jobseekers are vulnerable to 2025 before decreasing. We know Jobseekers are vulnerable to tougher Jobseekers are vulnerable to tougher labour Jobseekers are vulnerable to tougher labour market Jobseekers are vulnerable to tougher labour market conditions, Jobseekers are vulnerable to tougher labour market conditions, which Jobseekers are vulnerable to tougher labour market conditions, which is labour market conditions, which is why labour market conditions, which is why our labour market conditions, which is why our Government labour market conditions, which is why our Government is labour market conditions, which is why our Government is working labour market conditions, which is why our Government is working hard why our Government is working hard to why our Government is working hard to make why our Government is working hard to make our why our Government is working hard to make our labour why our Government is working hard to make our labour system why our Government is working hard to make our labour system -- why our Government is working hard to make our labour system -- our to make our labour system -- our welfare to make our labour system -- our welfare system to make our labour system -- our welfare system proactive to make our labour system -- our welfare system proactive in to make our labour system -- our welfare system proactive in helping welfare system proactive in helping as welfare system proactive in helping as many welfare system proactive in helping as many Jobseekers welfare system proactive in helping as many Jobseekers as welfare system proactive in helping as many Jobseekers as possible welfare system proactive in helping as many Jobseekers as possible in as many Jobseekers as possible in the as many Jobseekers as possible in the current as many Jobseekers as possible in the current economic as many Jobseekers as possible in the current economic climate. as many Jobseekers as possible in the current economic climate. Even the current economic climate. Even though the current economic climate. Even though we the current economic climate. Even though we have the current economic climate. Even though we have a the current economic climate. Even though we have a challenging though we have a challenging economic though we have a challenging economic environment, though we have a challenging economic environment, our though we have a challenging economic environment, our Government economic environment, our Government will economic environment, our Government will not economic environment, our Government will not stand economic environment, our Government will not stand by economic environment, our Government will not stand by and economic environment, our Government will not stand by and allow economic environment, our Government will not stand by and allow New will not stand by and allow New Zealanders will not stand by and allow New Zealanders to will not stand by and allow New Zealanders to languish will not stand by and allow New Zealanders to languish on will not stand by and allow New Zealanders to languish on welfare Zealanders to languish on welfare and Zealanders to languish on welfare and waste Zealanders to languish on welfare and waste their Zealanders to languish on welfare and waste their potential. Zealanders to languish on welfare and waste their potential. We Zealanders to languish on welfare and waste their potential. We are and waste their potential. We are acting and waste their potential. We are acting now and waste their potential. We are acting now to and waste their potential. We are acting now to support and waste their potential. We are acting now to support Jobseekers acting now to support Jobseekers into acting now to support Jobseekers into work acting now to support Jobseekers into work so acting now to support Jobseekers into work so they acting now to support Jobseekers into work so they can acting now to support Jobseekers into work so they can experience acting now to support Jobseekers into work so they can experience the into work so they can experience the independence into work so they can experience the independence and into work so they can experience the independence and opportunities into work so they can experience the independence and opportunities that independence and opportunities that work independence and opportunities that work provides. independence and opportunities that work provides. <INTERRUPTION> work provides. <INTERRUPTION> Kahurangi work provides. <INTERRUPTION> Kahurangi Carter. work provides. <INTERRUPTION> Kahurangi Carter. Does work provides. <INTERRUPTION> Kahurangi Carter. Does she work provides. <INTERRUPTION> Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept raising Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept raising a Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept raising a child Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept raising a child as Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept raising a child as work? Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept raising a child as work? If Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept raising a child as work? If so, Kahurangi Carter. Does she accept raising a child as work? If so, why raising a child as work? If so, why do raising a child as work? If so, why do parents raising a child as work? If so, why do parents face raising a child as work? If so, why do parents face work raising a child as work? If so, why do parents face work obligations do parents face work obligations rather do parents face work obligations rather than do parents face work obligations rather than being do parents face work obligations rather than being allowed do parents face work obligations rather than being allowed to do parents face work obligations rather than being allowed to raise rather than being allowed to raise their rather than being allowed to raise their children rather than being allowed to raise their children the rather than being allowed to raise their children the best rather than being allowed to raise their children the best way rather than being allowed to raise their children the best way that their children the best way that works their children the best way that works for their children the best way that works for them? their children the best way that works for them? We their children the best way that works for them? We are their children the best way that works for them? We are focused their children the best way that works for them? We are focused on works for them? We are focused on supporting works for them? We are focused on supporting people works for them? We are focused on supporting people off works for them? We are focused on supporting people off the works for them? We are focused on supporting people off the Jobseeker supporting people off the Jobseeker benefit, supporting people off the Jobseeker benefit, and supporting people off the Jobseeker benefit, and we supporting people off the Jobseeker benefit, and we want supporting people off the Jobseeker benefit, and we want to supporting people off the Jobseeker benefit, and we want to see supporting people off the Jobseeker benefit, and we want to see fewer benefit, and we want to see fewer children benefit, and we want to see fewer children being benefit, and we want to see fewer children being raised benefit, and we want to see fewer children being raised in children being raised in benefit-dependent children being raised in benefit-dependent households. benefit-dependent households. Supplementary: benefit-dependent households. Supplementary: Does benefit-dependent households. Supplementary: Does she benefit-dependent households. Supplementary: Does she accept Supplementary: Does she accept raising Supplementary: Does she accept raising a Supplementary: Does she accept raising a child Supplementary: Does she accept raising a child as Supplementary: Does she accept raising a child as work? Supplementary: Does she accept raising a child as work? Of Supplementary: Does she accept raising a child as work? Of course Supplementary: Does she accept raising a child as work? Of course - raising a child as work? Of course - and raising a child as work? Of course - and there raising a child as work? Of course - and there are raising a child as work? Of course - and there are many raising a child as work? Of course - and there are many parents raising a child as work? Of course - and there are many parents who raising a child as work? Of course - and there are many parents who work and there are many parents who work and and there are many parents who work and raise and there are many parents who work and raise their and there are many parents who work and raise their children. and there are many parents who work and raise their children. Point and there are many parents who work and raise their children. Point of and raise their children. Point of order. and raise their children. Point of order. Ricardo and raise their children. Point of order. Ricardo Menendez and raise their children. Point of order. Ricardo Menendez March. and raise their children. Point of order. Ricardo Menendez March. I order. Ricardo Menendez March. I cannot order. Ricardo Menendez March. I cannot see order. Ricardo Menendez March. I cannot see how order. Ricardo Menendez March. I cannot see how that order. Ricardo Menendez March. I cannot see how that second cannot see how that second supplementary cannot see how that second supplementary was cannot see how that second supplementary was being cannot see how that second supplementary was being addressed supplementary was being addressed when supplementary was being addressed when the supplementary was being addressed when the question supplementary was being addressed when the question was supplementary was being addressed when the question was whether supplementary was being addressed when the question was whether she when the question was whether she considered when the question was whether she considered it when the question was whether she considered it to when the question was whether she considered it to be when the question was whether she considered it to be work. when the question was whether she considered it to be work. It when the question was whether she considered it to be work. It was considered it to be work. It was very, considered it to be work. It was very, very considered it to be work. It was very, very narrow, considered it to be work. It was very, very narrow, and considered it to be work. It was very, very narrow, and she considered it to be work. It was very, very narrow, and she just considered it to be work. It was very, very narrow, and she just said very, very narrow, and she just said that very, very narrow, and she just said that there very, very narrow, and she just said that there are very, very narrow, and she just said that there are many very, very narrow, and she just said that there are many parents very, very narrow, and she just said that there are many parents that that there are many parents that work. that there are many parents that work. That's that there are many parents that work. That's very, that there are many parents that work. That's very, very that there are many parents that work. That's very, very unrelated that there are many parents that work. That's very, very unrelated to work. That's very, very unrelated to the work. That's very, very unrelated to the actual work. That's very, very unrelated to the actual very work. That's very, very unrelated to the actual very narrow work. That's very, very unrelated to the actual very narrow question. work. That's very, very unrelated to the actual very narrow question. No, the actual very narrow question. No, the the actual very narrow question. No, the actual the actual very narrow question. No, the actual question the actual very narrow question. No, the actual question was, the actual very narrow question. No, the actual question was, "Does the actual very narrow question. No, the actual question was, "Does she the actual question was, "Does she support..." the actual question was, "Does she support..." And the actual question was, "Does she support..." And the the actual question was, "Does she support..." And the answer the actual question was, "Does she support..." And the answer came, the actual question was, "Does she support..." And the answer came, "Of support..." And the answer came, "Of course," support..." And the answer came, "Of course," then support..." And the answer came, "Of course," then with support..." And the answer came, "Of course," then with the support..." And the answer came, "Of course," then with the backup support..." And the answer came, "Of course," then with the backup behind course," then with the backup behind that. course," then with the backup behind that. Point course," then with the backup behind that. Point of course," then with the backup behind that. Point of order. course," then with the backup behind that. Point of order. Kahurangi that. Point of order. Kahurangi Carter that. Point of order. Kahurangi Carter asked that. Point of order. Kahurangi Carter asked whether that. Point of order. Kahurangi Carter asked whether the that. Point of order. Kahurangi Carter asked whether the Minister Carter asked whether the Minister accepted Carter asked whether the Minister accepted that Carter asked whether the Minister accepted that raising Carter asked whether the Minister accepted that raising a Carter asked whether the Minister accepted that raising a child Carter asked whether the Minister accepted that raising a child "is" accepted that raising a child "is" work. accepted that raising a child "is" work. The accepted that raising a child "is" work. The Minister accepted that raising a child "is" work. The Minister didn't accepted that raising a child "is" work. The Minister didn't address work. The Minister didn't address the work. The Minister didn't address the question... work. The Minister didn't address the question... The work. The Minister didn't address the question... The answer work. The Minister didn't address the question... The answer was, work. The Minister didn't address the question... The answer was, "Of the question... The answer was, "Of course," the question... The answer was, "Of course," and the question... The answer was, "Of course," and then the question... The answer was, "Of course," and then an the question... The answer was, "Of course," and then an explanation course," and then an explanation that course," and then an explanation that many course," and then an explanation that many people course," and then an explanation that many people not course," and then an explanation that many people not only course," and then an explanation that many people not only do course," and then an explanation that many people not only do that, that many people not only do that, but that many people not only do that, but also that many people not only do that, but also have that many people not only do that, but also have other that many people not only do that, but also have other jobs. that many people not only do that, but also have other jobs. The that many people not only do that, but also have other jobs. The Hon but also have other jobs. The Hon Willie but also have other jobs. The Hon Willie Jackson. but also have other jobs. The Hon Willie Jackson. To but also have other jobs. The Hon Willie Jackson. To the but also have other jobs. The Hon Willie Jackson. To the Minister but also have other jobs. The Hon Willie Jackson. To the Minister of Willie Jackson. To the Minister of Social Willie Jackson. To the Minister of Social Development Willie Jackson. To the Minister of Social Development and Willie Jackson. To the Minister of Social Development and employment: Social Development and employment: Do Social Development and employment: Do recent Social Development and employment: Do recent unemployment Social Development and employment: Do recent unemployment figures Social Development and employment: Do recent unemployment figures show Do recent unemployment figures show New Do recent unemployment figures show New Zealand Do recent unemployment figures show New Zealand is Do recent unemployment figures show New Zealand is back Do recent unemployment figures show New Zealand is back on Do recent unemployment figures show New Zealand is back on track? Do recent unemployment figures show New Zealand is back on track? If New Zealand is back on track? If not, New Zealand is back on track? If not, why New Zealand is back on track? If not, why not? New Zealand is back on track? If not, why not? The New Zealand is back on track? If not, why not? The Hon New Zealand is back on track? If not, why not? The Hon Louise New Zealand is back on track? If not, why not? The Hon Louise Upston. not, why not? The Hon Louise Upston. Our not, why not? The Hon Louise Upston. Our Coalition not, why not? The Hon Louise Upston. Our Coalition Government not, why not? The Hon Louise Upston. Our Coalition Government is not, why not? The Hon Louise Upston. Our Coalition Government is getting Our Coalition Government is getting New Our Coalition Government is getting New Zealand Our Coalition Government is getting New Zealand back Our Coalition Government is getting New Zealand back on Our Coalition Government is getting New Zealand back on track Our Coalition Government is getting New Zealand back on track and, Our Coalition Government is getting New Zealand back on track and, as Our Coalition Government is getting New Zealand back on track and, as I New Zealand back on track and, as I have New Zealand back on track and, as I have acknowledged New Zealand back on track and, as I have acknowledged before, New Zealand back on track and, as I have acknowledged before, too New Zealand back on track and, as I have acknowledged before, too many have acknowledged before, too many New have acknowledged before, too many New Zealanders have acknowledged before, too many New Zealanders have have acknowledged before, too many New Zealanders have been have acknowledged before, too many New Zealanders have been denied have acknowledged before, too many New Zealanders have been denied the New Zealanders have been denied the independence New Zealanders have been denied the independence and New Zealanders have been denied the independence and opportunities New Zealanders have been denied the independence and opportunities that independence and opportunities that work independence and opportunities that work provides. independence and opportunities that work provides. We've independence and opportunities that work provides. We've inherited independence and opportunities that work provides. We've inherited a work provides. We've inherited a low-growth work provides. We've inherited a low-growth economy work provides. We've inherited a low-growth economy from work provides. We've inherited a low-growth economy from the work provides. We've inherited a low-growth economy from the previous low-growth economy from the previous government, low-growth economy from the previous government, which low-growth economy from the previous government, which unfortunately government, which unfortunately means government, which unfortunately means rising government, which unfortunately means rising unemployment. government, which unfortunately means rising unemployment. That's means rising unemployment. That's why means rising unemployment. That's why we're means rising unemployment. That's why we're implementing means rising unemployment. That's why we're implementing a means rising unemployment. That's why we're implementing a more why we're implementing a more proactive why we're implementing a more proactive welfare why we're implementing a more proactive welfare system why we're implementing a more proactive welfare system to why we're implementing a more proactive welfare system to support proactive welfare system to support people proactive welfare system to support people off proactive welfare system to support people off benefit proactive welfare system to support people off benefit and proactive welfare system to support people off benefit and into proactive welfare system to support people off benefit and into work people off benefit and into work and, people off benefit and into work and, in people off benefit and into work and, in the people off benefit and into work and, in the six people off benefit and into work and, in the six years people off benefit and into work and, in the six years before people off benefit and into work and, in the six years before we people off benefit and into work and, in the six years before we took and, in the six years before we took over, and, in the six years before we took over, the and, in the six years before we took over, the number and, in the six years before we took over, the number of and, in the six years before we took over, the number of people and, in the six years before we took over, the number of people receiving over, the number of people receiving the over, the number of people receiving the Jobseeker over, the number of people receiving the Jobseeker benefit over, the number of people receiving the Jobseeker benefit increased over, the number of people receiving the Jobseeker benefit increased by the Jobseeker benefit increased by 70,000, the Jobseeker benefit increased by 70,000, or the Jobseeker benefit increased by 70,000, or 57%. the Jobseeker benefit increased by 70,000, or 57%. <INTERRUPTION> 70,000, or 57%. <INTERRUPTION> To 70,000, or 57%. <INTERRUPTION> To the 70,000, or 57%. <INTERRUPTION> To the Minister 70,000, or 57%. <INTERRUPTION> To the Minister - 70,000, or 57%. <INTERRUPTION> To the Minister - how 70,000, or 57%. <INTERRUPTION> To the Minister - how can 70,000, or 57%. <INTERRUPTION> To the Minister - how can New To the Minister - how can New Zealand To the Minister - how can New Zealand be To the Minister - how can New Zealand be back To the Minister - how can New Zealand be back on To the Minister - how can New Zealand be back on track To the Minister - how can New Zealand be back on track when, To the Minister - how can New Zealand be back on track when, on Zealand be back on track when, on average, Zealand be back on track when, on average, every Zealand be back on track when, on average, every month Zealand be back on track when, on average, every month since Zealand be back on track when, on average, every month since she's average, every month since she's been average, every month since she's been in average, every month since she's been in office, average, every month since she's been in office, there's average, every month since she's been in office, there's been average, every month since she's been in office, there's been an been in office, there's been an additional been in office, there's been an additional 1,000 been in office, there's been an additional 1,000 people been in office, there's been an additional 1,000 people out been in office, there's been an additional 1,000 people out of been in office, there's been an additional 1,000 people out of work? additional 1,000 people out of work? As additional 1,000 people out of work? As I additional 1,000 people out of work? As I explained, additional 1,000 people out of work? As I explained, we additional 1,000 people out of work? As I explained, we unfortunately As I explained, we unfortunately inherited As I explained, we unfortunately inherited an As I explained, we unfortunately inherited an economy As I explained, we unfortunately inherited an economy that As I explained, we unfortunately inherited an economy that saw As I explained, we unfortunately inherited an economy that saw the inherited an economy that saw the previous inherited an economy that saw the previous government inherited an economy that saw the previous government absolutely previous government absolutely mismanage previous government absolutely mismanage the previous government absolutely mismanage the economy previous government absolutely mismanage the economy and, mismanage the economy and, unfortunately, mismanage the economy and, unfortunately, New mismanage the economy and, unfortunately, New Zealanders mismanage the economy and, unfortunately, New Zealanders are unfortunately, New Zealanders are paying unfortunately, New Zealanders are paying the unfortunately, New Zealanders are paying the price. unfortunately, New Zealanders are paying the price. For unfortunately, New Zealanders are paying the price. For every unfortunately, New Zealanders are paying the price. For every New paying the price. For every New Zealander paying the price. For every New Zealander that paying the price. For every New Zealander that loses paying the price. For every New Zealander that loses a paying the price. For every New Zealander that loses a job paying the price. For every New Zealander that loses a job right Zealander that loses a job right now, Zealander that loses a job right now, it Zealander that loses a job right now, it comes Zealander that loses a job right now, it comes back Zealander that loses a job right now, it comes back to Zealander that loses a job right now, it comes back to the Zealander that loses a job right now, it comes back to the broken now, it comes back to the broken economy now, it comes back to the broken economy that now, it comes back to the broken economy that we now, it comes back to the broken economy that we inherited now, it comes back to the broken economy that we inherited and now, it comes back to the broken economy that we inherited and the economy that we inherited and the damage economy that we inherited and the damage that economy that we inherited and the damage that that economy that we inherited and the damage that that side economy that we inherited and the damage that that side did. economy that we inherited and the damage that that side did. Does economy that we inherited and the damage that that side did. Does the damage that that side did. Does the Minister damage that that side did. Does the Minister consider damage that that side did. Does the Minister consider Maori damage that that side did. Does the Minister consider Maori employment Minister consider Maori employment rates Minister consider Maori employment rates to Minister consider Maori employment rates to be Minister consider Maori employment rates to be back Minister consider Maori employment rates to be back on Minister consider Maori employment rates to be back on track Minister consider Maori employment rates to be back on track when, rates to be back on track when, under rates to be back on track when, under her rates to be back on track when, under her watch rates to be back on track when, under her watch in rates to be back on track when, under her watch in just rates to be back on track when, under her watch in just nine rates to be back on track when, under her watch in just nine months, under her watch in just nine months, Maori under her watch in just nine months, Maori unemployment under her watch in just nine months, Maori unemployment has under her watch in just nine months, Maori unemployment has increased Maori unemployment has increased from Maori unemployment has increased from 8.2% Maori unemployment has increased from 8.2% to Maori unemployment has increased from 8.2% to 9.1%? Maori unemployment has increased from 8.2% to 9.1%? Unfortunately, from 8.2% to 9.1%? Unfortunately, the from 8.2% to 9.1%? Unfortunately, the economic from 8.2% to 9.1%? Unfortunately, the economic conditions from 8.2% to 9.1%? Unfortunately, the economic conditions that from 8.2% to 9.1%? Unfortunately, the economic conditions that we from 8.2% to 9.1%? Unfortunately, the economic conditions that we have the economic conditions that we have inherited the economic conditions that we have inherited mean the economic conditions that we have inherited mean rising the economic conditions that we have inherited mean rising unemployment. inherited mean rising unemployment. We inherited mean rising unemployment. We have inherited mean rising unemployment. We have seen inherited mean rising unemployment. We have seen the inherited mean rising unemployment. We have seen the unemployment inherited mean rising unemployment. We have seen the unemployment rate We have seen the unemployment rate rise We have seen the unemployment rate rise - We have seen the unemployment rate rise - fortunately, We have seen the unemployment rate rise - fortunately, not We have seen the unemployment rate rise - fortunately, not as We have seen the unemployment rate rise - fortunately, not as far We have seen the unemployment rate rise - fortunately, not as far as rise - fortunately, not as far as those rise - fortunately, not as far as those forecast rise - fortunately, not as far as those forecast - rise - fortunately, not as far as those forecast - and rise - fortunately, not as far as those forecast - and the rise - fortunately, not as far as those forecast - and the Jobseeker those forecast - and the Jobseeker numbers those forecast - and the Jobseeker numbers are, those forecast - and the Jobseeker numbers are, of those forecast - and the Jobseeker numbers are, of course, those forecast - and the Jobseeker numbers are, of course, getting numbers are, of course, getting worse. numbers are, of course, getting worse. That numbers are, of course, getting worse. That is numbers are, of course, getting worse. That is the numbers are, of course, getting worse. That is the reality numbers are, of course, getting worse. That is the reality of numbers are, of course, getting worse. That is the reality of the worse. That is the reality of the economy worse. That is the reality of the economy we worse. That is the reality of the economy we have worse. That is the reality of the economy we have inherited. worse. That is the reality of the economy we have inherited. Our worse. That is the reality of the economy we have inherited. Our job economy we have inherited. Our job is economy we have inherited. Our job is to economy we have inherited. Our job is to fix economy we have inherited. Our job is to fix it economy we have inherited. Our job is to fix it - economy we have inherited. Our job is to fix it - that's economy we have inherited. Our job is to fix it - that's exactly economy we have inherited. Our job is to fix it - that's exactly what is to fix it - that's exactly what we is to fix it - that's exactly what we are is to fix it - that's exactly what we are doing, is to fix it - that's exactly what we are doing, 'cause is to fix it - that's exactly what we are doing, 'cause we is to fix it - that's exactly what we are doing, 'cause we want is to fix it - that's exactly what we are doing, 'cause we want to is to fix it - that's exactly what we are doing, 'cause we want to see we are doing, 'cause we want to see more we are doing, 'cause we want to see more New we are doing, 'cause we want to see more New Zealanders we are doing, 'cause we want to see more New Zealanders and we are doing, 'cause we want to see more New Zealanders and more we are doing, 'cause we want to see more New Zealanders and more Maori more New Zealanders and more Maori in more New Zealanders and more Maori in work. more New Zealanders and more Maori in work. Does more New Zealanders and more Maori in work. Does the more New Zealanders and more Maori in work. Does the Minister more New Zealanders and more Maori in work. Does the Minister consider in work. Does the Minister consider Pacific in work. Does the Minister consider Pacific employment in work. Does the Minister consider Pacific employment rates in work. Does the Minister consider Pacific employment rates to in work. Does the Minister consider Pacific employment rates to be in work. Does the Minister consider Pacific employment rates to be back Pacific employment rates to be back on Pacific employment rates to be back on track Pacific employment rates to be back on track when, Pacific employment rates to be back on track when, under Pacific employment rates to be back on track when, under her Pacific employment rates to be back on track when, under her watch Pacific employment rates to be back on track when, under her watch in on track when, under her watch in just on track when, under her watch in just nine on track when, under her watch in just nine months, on track when, under her watch in just nine months, Pacific just nine months, Pacific unemployment just nine months, Pacific unemployment has just nine months, Pacific unemployment has increased just nine months, Pacific unemployment has increased from just nine months, Pacific unemployment has increased from 6% unemployment has increased from 6% to unemployment has increased from 6% to 8.3%? unemployment has increased from 6% to 8.3%? I unemployment has increased from 6% to 8.3%? I can unemployment has increased from 6% to 8.3%? I can tell unemployment has increased from 6% to 8.3%? I can tell that unemployment has increased from 6% to 8.3%? I can tell that member unemployment has increased from 6% to 8.3%? I can tell that member what to 8.3%? I can tell that member what this to 8.3%? I can tell that member what this Government to 8.3%? I can tell that member what this Government won't to 8.3%? I can tell that member what this Government won't do to 8.3%? I can tell that member what this Government won't do with this Government won't do with Pacific this Government won't do with Pacific unemployment this Government won't do with Pacific unemployment - this Government won't do with Pacific unemployment - we this Government won't do with Pacific unemployment - we will this Government won't do with Pacific unemployment - we will not Pacific unemployment - we will not oversee Pacific unemployment - we will not oversee an Pacific unemployment - we will not oversee an increase Pacific unemployment - we will not oversee an increase in Pacific unemployment - we will not oversee an increase in six Pacific unemployment - we will not oversee an increase in six years Pacific unemployment - we will not oversee an increase in six years of oversee an increase in six years of 93% oversee an increase in six years of 93% in oversee an increase in six years of 93% in Pacific oversee an increase in six years of 93% in Pacific unemployment. oversee an increase in six years of 93% in Pacific unemployment. That's 93% in Pacific unemployment. That's outrageous, 93% in Pacific unemployment. That's outrageous, and 93% in Pacific unemployment. That's outrageous, and that's 93% in Pacific unemployment. That's outrageous, and that's your 93% in Pacific unemployment. That's outrageous, and that's your record. outrageous, and that's your record. Can outrageous, and that's your record. Can the outrageous, and that's your record. Can the Minister outrageous, and that's your record. Can the Minister tell outrageous, and that's your record. Can the Minister tell us outrageous, and that's your record. Can the Minister tell us - outrageous, and that's your record. Can the Minister tell us - how outrageous, and that's your record. Can the Minister tell us - how can Can the Minister tell us - how can she Can the Minister tell us - how can she say Can the Minister tell us - how can she say "youth Can the Minister tell us - how can she say "youth employment Can the Minister tell us - how can she say "youth employment is Can the Minister tell us - how can she say "youth employment is on she say "youth employment is on track" she say "youth employment is on track" when she say "youth employment is on track" when recent she say "youth employment is on track" when recent figures she say "youth employment is on track" when recent figures show she say "youth employment is on track" when recent figures show that track" when recent figures show that youth track" when recent figures show that youth unemployment track" when recent figures show that youth unemployment has track" when recent figures show that youth unemployment has increased youth unemployment has increased from youth unemployment has increased from 15.1% youth unemployment has increased from 15.1% to youth unemployment has increased from 15.1% to 20.7% youth unemployment has increased from 15.1% to 20.7% just youth unemployment has increased from 15.1% to 20.7% just in youth unemployment has increased from 15.1% to 20.7% just in the youth unemployment has increased from 15.1% to 20.7% just in the last from 15.1% to 20.7% just in the last June from 15.1% to 20.7% just in the last June quarter from 15.1% to 20.7% just in the last June quarter of from 15.1% to 20.7% just in the last June quarter of 2024? from 15.1% to 20.7% just in the last June quarter of 2024? I'm from 15.1% to 20.7% just in the last June quarter of 2024? I'm pleased June quarter of 2024? I'm pleased that June quarter of 2024? I'm pleased that that June quarter of 2024? I'm pleased that that member June quarter of 2024? I'm pleased that that member is June quarter of 2024? I'm pleased that that member is finally that that member is finally interested that that member is finally interested in that that member is finally interested in youth that that member is finally interested in youth unemployment, interested in youth unemployment, because interested in youth unemployment, because what interested in youth unemployment, because what we interested in youth unemployment, because what we saw, interested in youth unemployment, because what we saw, unfortunately interested in youth unemployment, because what we saw, unfortunately - because what we saw, unfortunately - a because what we saw, unfortunately - a welfare because what we saw, unfortunately - a welfare system because what we saw, unfortunately - a welfare system stagnating because what we saw, unfortunately - a welfare system stagnating so because what we saw, unfortunately - a welfare system stagnating so much a welfare system stagnating so much that a welfare system stagnating so much that a a welfare system stagnating so much that a young a welfare system stagnating so much that a young person a welfare system stagnating so much that a young person who a welfare system stagnating so much that a young person who goes a welfare system stagnating so much that a young person who goes onto that a young person who goes onto benefit that a young person who goes onto benefit under that a young person who goes onto benefit under the that a young person who goes onto benefit under the age that a young person who goes onto benefit under the age of that a young person who goes onto benefit under the age of 25 that a young person who goes onto benefit under the age of 25 now that a young person who goes onto benefit under the age of 25 now is benefit under the age of 25 now is forecast benefit under the age of 25 now is forecast to benefit under the age of 25 now is forecast to spend benefit under the age of 25 now is forecast to spend two benefit under the age of 25 now is forecast to spend two decades benefit under the age of 25 now is forecast to spend two decades on forecast to spend two decades on welfare. forecast to spend two decades on welfare. That's forecast to spend two decades on welfare. That's the forecast to spend two decades on welfare. That's the record forecast to spend two decades on welfare. That's the record of forecast to spend two decades on welfare. That's the record of that welfare. That's the record of that member. welfare. That's the record of that member. We're welfare. That's the record of that member. We're not welfare. That's the record of that member. We're not standing welfare. That's the record of that member. We're not standing by welfare. That's the record of that member. We're not standing by to member. We're not standing by to watch member. We're not standing by to watch it, member. We're not standing by to watch it, which member. We're not standing by to watch it, which is member. We're not standing by to watch it, which is why member. We're not standing by to watch it, which is why we member. We're not standing by to watch it, which is why we are member. We're not standing by to watch it, which is why we are taking watch it, which is why we are taking action. watch it, which is why we are taking action. Does watch it, which is why we are taking action. Does the watch it, which is why we are taking action. Does the Minister watch it, which is why we are taking action. Does the Minister have watch it, which is why we are taking action. Does the Minister have any action. Does the Minister have any plan action. Does the Minister have any plan to action. Does the Minister have any plan to get action. Does the Minister have any plan to get people action. Does the Minister have any plan to get people into action. Does the Minister have any plan to get people into work, action. Does the Minister have any plan to get people into work, or action. Does the Minister have any plan to get people into work, or is plan to get people into work, or is she plan to get people into work, or is she just plan to get people into work, or is she just planning plan to get people into work, or is she just planning for plan to get people into work, or is she just planning for the plan to get people into work, or is she just planning for the figures plan to get people into work, or is she just planning for the figures to she just planning for the figures to get she just planning for the figures to get better she just planning for the figures to get better once she just planning for the figures to get better once a she just planning for the figures to get better once a whole she just planning for the figures to get better once a whole lot she just planning for the figures to get better once a whole lot of she just planning for the figures to get better once a whole lot of Kiwis get better once a whole lot of Kiwis move get better once a whole lot of Kiwis move to get better once a whole lot of Kiwis move to simple get better once a whole lot of Kiwis move to simple old get better once a whole lot of Kiwis move to simple old Australia? move to simple old Australia? <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> I'm <INTERRUPTION> I'm very <INTERRUPTION> I'm very proud <INTERRUPTION> I'm very proud to <INTERRUPTION> I'm very proud to again <INTERRUPTION> I'm very proud to again put <INTERRUPTION> I'm very proud to again put on I'm very proud to again put on record I'm very proud to again put on record the I'm very proud to again put on record the changes I'm very proud to again put on record the changes this I'm very proud to again put on record the changes this Government record the changes this Government have record the changes this Government have made record the changes this Government have made to record the changes this Government have made to reduce record the changes this Government have made to reduce the record the changes this Government have made to reduce the number record the changes this Government have made to reduce the number of have made to reduce the number of Jobseekers have made to reduce the number of Jobseekers by have made to reduce the number of Jobseekers by 50,000 have made to reduce the number of Jobseekers by 50,000 by have made to reduce the number of Jobseekers by 50,000 by 2030. have made to reduce the number of Jobseekers by 50,000 by 2030. We Jobseekers by 50,000 by 2030. We have Jobseekers by 50,000 by 2030. We have made Jobseekers by 50,000 by 2030. We have made sure Jobseekers by 50,000 by 2030. We have made sure that Jobseekers by 50,000 by 2030. We have made sure that the Jobseekers by 50,000 by 2030. We have made sure that the sanctions have made sure that the sanctions regime have made sure that the sanctions regime is have made sure that the sanctions regime is utilised have made sure that the sanctions regime is utilised and have made sure that the sanctions regime is utilised and people have made sure that the sanctions regime is utilised and people are regime is utilised and people are clear regime is utilised and people are clear about regime is utilised and people are clear about their regime is utilised and people are clear about their obligations regime is utilised and people are clear about their obligations to clear about their obligations to look clear about their obligations to look for clear about their obligations to look for work. clear about their obligations to look for work. We clear about their obligations to look for work. We have clear about their obligations to look for work. We have introduced clear about their obligations to look for work. We have introduced a look for work. We have introduced a work look for work. We have introduced a work check-in look for work. We have introduced a work check-in within look for work. We have introduced a work check-in within two look for work. We have introduced a work check-in within two weeks look for work. We have introduced a work check-in within two weeks of work check-in within two weeks of someone work check-in within two weeks of someone going work check-in within two weeks of someone going onto work check-in within two weeks of someone going onto the work check-in within two weeks of someone going onto the Jobseeker someone going onto the Jobseeker benefit someone going onto the Jobseeker benefit and someone going onto the Jobseeker benefit and again someone going onto the Jobseeker benefit and again after someone going onto the Jobseeker benefit and again after six someone going onto the Jobseeker benefit and again after six months. benefit and again after six months. We benefit and again after six months. We have benefit and again after six months. We have increased benefit and again after six months. We have increased case benefit and again after six months. We have increased case management We have increased case management and, We have increased case management and, for We have increased case management and, for 4,000 We have increased case management and, for 4,000 young We have increased case management and, for 4,000 young people, We have increased case management and, for 4,000 young people, they and, for 4,000 young people, they will and, for 4,000 young people, they will now and, for 4,000 young people, they will now get and, for 4,000 young people, they will now get case and, for 4,000 young people, they will now get case management and, for 4,000 young people, they will now get case management over will now get case management over the will now get case management over the phone. will now get case management over the phone. We will now get case management over the phone. We have will now get case management over the phone. We have also will now get case management over the phone. We have also last will now get case management over the phone. We have also last week the phone. We have also last week increased the phone. We have also last week increased the the phone. We have also last week increased the number the phone. We have also last week increased the number of the phone. We have also last week increased the number of young the phone. We have also last week increased the number of young people increased the number of young people that increased the number of young people that will increased the number of young people that will get increased the number of young people that will get access increased the number of young people that will get access to increased the number of young people that will get access to the increased the number of young people that will get access to the very that will get access to the very successful that will get access to the very successful hypotum that will get access to the very successful hypotum tongue that will get access to the very successful hypotum tongue ruhe successful hypotum tongue ruhe programme successful hypotum tongue ruhe programme launched successful hypotum tongue ruhe programme launched by successful hypotum tongue ruhe programme launched by National successful hypotum tongue ruhe programme launched by National in programme launched by National in 2017, programme launched by National in 2017, including programme launched by National in 2017, including community programme launched by National in 2017, including community coaching. 2017, including community coaching. Question 2017, including community coaching. Question 6 2017, including community coaching. Question 6 - 2017, including community coaching. Question 6 - James 2017, including community coaching. Question 6 - James Meager. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister for My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister for My question is to the Minister for Building My question is to the Minister for Building and My question is to the Minister for Building and Construction: for Building and Construction: Why for Building and Construction: Why is for Building and Construction: Why is the for Building and Construction: Why is the Government for Building and Construction: Why is the Government reviewing Why is the Government reviewing the Why is the Government reviewing the earthquake-prone Why is the Government reviewing the earthquake-prone building the earthquake-prone building legislation? Our Our Government Our Government is Our Government is focused Our Government is focused on Our Government is focused on rebuilding Our Government is focused on rebuilding the Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy, Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy, as Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy, as part Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy, as part of rebuilding the economy, as part of our rebuilding the economy, as part of our broader rebuilding the economy, as part of our broader aim rebuilding the economy, as part of our broader aim of rebuilding the economy, as part of our broader aim of getting rebuilding the economy, as part of our broader aim of getting New our broader aim of getting New Zealand our broader aim of getting New Zealand back our broader aim of getting New Zealand back on our broader aim of getting New Zealand back on track. our broader aim of getting New Zealand back on track. The Zealand back on track. The earthquake-prone Zealand back on track. The earthquake-prone building Zealand back on track. The earthquake-prone building system earthquake-prone building system attempts earthquake-prone building system attempts to earthquake-prone building system attempts to manage earthquake-prone building system attempts to manage risk earthquake-prone building system attempts to manage risk by earthquake-prone building system attempts to manage risk by requiring attempts to manage risk by requiring earthquake-prone attempts to manage risk by requiring earthquake-prone buildings attempts to manage risk by requiring earthquake-prone buildings to attempts to manage risk by requiring earthquake-prone buildings to be earthquake-prone buildings to be remediated earthquake-prone buildings to be remediated by earthquake-prone buildings to be remediated by set earthquake-prone buildings to be remediated by set timeframes. remediated by set timeframes. However, remediated by set timeframes. However, many remediated by set timeframes. However, many building remediated by set timeframes. However, many building owners remediated by set timeframes. However, many building owners are However, many building owners are currently However, many building owners are currently unable However, many building owners are currently unable to However, many building owners are currently unable to meet However, many building owners are currently unable to meet deadlands currently unable to meet deadlands due currently unable to meet deadlands due to currently unable to meet deadlands due to high currently unable to meet deadlands due to high remediation currently unable to meet deadlands due to high remediation costs currently unable to meet deadlands due to high remediation costs and due to high remediation costs and excessive due to high remediation costs and excessive lowering due to high remediation costs and excessive lowering of due to high remediation costs and excessive lowering of regulations. excessive lowering of regulations. This excessive lowering of regulations. This is excessive lowering of regulations. This is why excessive lowering of regulations. This is why we excessive lowering of regulations. This is why we have excessive lowering of regulations. This is why we have acted excessive lowering of regulations. This is why we have acted with This is why we have acted with urgency This is why we have acted with urgency to This is why we have acted with urgency to bring This is why we have acted with urgency to bring forward This is why we have acted with urgency to bring forward the This is why we have acted with urgency to bring forward the review urgency to bring forward the review to urgency to bring forward the review to provide urgency to bring forward the review to provide certainty urgency to bring forward the review to provide certainty and urgency to bring forward the review to provide certainty and ensure urgency to bring forward the review to provide certainty and ensure we to provide certainty and ensure we have to provide certainty and ensure we have a to provide certainty and ensure we have a good to provide certainty and ensure we have a good balance to provide certainty and ensure we have a good balance between have a good balance between protecting have a good balance between protecting lives have a good balance between protecting lives and have a good balance between protecting lives and real-world protecting lives and real-world costs. protecting lives and real-world costs. When protecting lives and real-world costs. When will protecting lives and real-world costs. When will the protecting lives and real-world costs. When will the review protecting lives and real-world costs. When will the review into costs. When will the review into earthquake-prone costs. When will the review into earthquake-prone building earthquake-prone building legislation earthquake-prone building legislation begin? earthquake-prone building legislation begin? We earthquake-prone building legislation begin? We are earthquake-prone building legislation begin? We are moving earthquake-prone building legislation begin? We are moving at legislation begin? We are moving at pace legislation begin? We are moving at pace and legislation begin? We are moving at pace and the legislation begin? We are moving at pace and the review legislation begin? We are moving at pace and the review is legislation begin? We are moving at pace and the review is underway legislation begin? We are moving at pace and the review is underway as pace and the review is underway as we pace and the review is underway as we speak. pace and the review is underway as we speak. This pace and the review is underway as we speak. This very pace and the review is underway as we speak. This very afternoon, pace and the review is underway as we speak. This very afternoon, in we speak. This very afternoon, in fact, we speak. This very afternoon, in fact, the we speak. This very afternoon, in fact, the Earthquake we speak. This very afternoon, in fact, the Earthquake had we speak. This very afternoon, in fact, the Earthquake had prone fact, the Earthquake had prone Building fact, the Earthquake had prone Building Deadlines fact, the Earthquake had prone Building Deadlines and fact, the Earthquake had prone Building Deadlines and Other fact, the Earthquake had prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters Building Deadlines and Other Matters Amendment Building Deadlines and Other Matters Amendment Bill Building Deadlines and Other Matters Amendment Bill will Building Deadlines and Other Matters Amendment Bill will be Building Deadlines and Other Matters Amendment Bill will be under Amendment Bill will be under discussion Amendment Bill will be under discussion in Amendment Bill will be under discussion in this Amendment Bill will be under discussion in this very Amendment Bill will be under discussion in this very House. Amendment Bill will be under discussion in this very House. We discussion in this very House. We attempt discussion in this very House. We attempt to discussion in this very House. We attempt to give discussion in this very House. We attempt to give temporary discussion in this very House. We attempt to give temporary relief discussion in this very House. We attempt to give temporary relief to attempt to give temporary relief to Kiwis attempt to give temporary relief to Kiwis while attempt to give temporary relief to Kiwis while this attempt to give temporary relief to Kiwis while this review attempt to give temporary relief to Kiwis while this review is attempt to give temporary relief to Kiwis while this review is underway. Kiwis while this review is underway. What Kiwis while this review is underway. What will Kiwis while this review is underway. What will the Kiwis while this review is underway. What will the review Kiwis while this review is underway. What will the review focus Kiwis while this review is underway. What will the review focus on? Kiwis while this review is underway. What will the review focus on? The What will the review focus on? The review What will the review focus on? The review will What will the review focus on? The review will be What will the review focus on? The review will be extensive What will the review focus on? The review will be extensive and What will the review focus on? The review will be extensive and report review will be extensive and report back review will be extensive and report back in review will be extensive and report back in the review will be extensive and report back in the first review will be extensive and report back in the first half review will be extensive and report back in the first half of review will be extensive and report back in the first half of 2025 review will be extensive and report back in the first half of 2025 with back in the first half of 2025 with four back in the first half of 2025 with four key back in the first half of 2025 with four key foci. back in the first half of 2025 with four key foci. The back in the first half of 2025 with four key foci. The first back in the first half of 2025 with four key foci. The first is back in the first half of 2025 with four key foci. The first is the back in the first half of 2025 with four key foci. The first is the cost four key foci. The first is the cost of four key foci. The first is the cost of mitigating four key foci. The first is the cost of mitigating earthquake four key foci. The first is the cost of mitigating earthquake risk four key foci. The first is the cost of mitigating earthquake risk and of mitigating earthquake risk and improving of mitigating earthquake risk and improving buildings' of mitigating earthquake risk and improving buildings' resilience. of mitigating earthquake risk and improving buildings' resilience. The improving buildings' resilience. The second improving buildings' resilience. The second - improving buildings' resilience. The second - proposals improving buildings' resilience. The second - proposals for improving buildings' resilience. The second - proposals for managing second - proposals for managing earthquake second - proposals for managing earthquake risk, second - proposals for managing earthquake risk, including second - proposals for managing earthquake risk, including the earthquake risk, including the effect earthquake risk, including the effect on earthquake risk, including the effect on private earthquake risk, including the effect on private property earthquake risk, including the effect on private property owners. effect on private property owners. Third effect on private property owners. Third - effect on private property owners. Third - barriers effect on private property owners. Third - barriers and effect on private property owners. Third - barriers and the effect on private property owners. Third - barriers and the types effect on private property owners. Third - barriers and the types of Third - barriers and the types of incentives Third - barriers and the types of incentives that Third - barriers and the types of incentives that would Third - barriers and the types of incentives that would help Third - barriers and the types of incentives that would help building incentives that would help building owners incentives that would help building owners better incentives that would help building owners better manage incentives that would help building owners better manage seismic incentives that would help building owners better manage seismic risk. owners better manage seismic risk. And owners better manage seismic risk. And fourth owners better manage seismic risk. And fourth - owners better manage seismic risk. And fourth - changes owners better manage seismic risk. And fourth - changes aligned owners better manage seismic risk. And fourth - changes aligned with And fourth - changes aligned with housing And fourth - changes aligned with housing growth And fourth - changes aligned with housing growth and And fourth - changes aligned with housing growth and rebuilding And fourth - changes aligned with housing growth and rebuilding the housing growth and rebuilding the economy. housing growth and rebuilding the economy. How housing growth and rebuilding the economy. How can housing growth and rebuilding the economy. How can the housing growth and rebuilding the economy. How can the public housing growth and rebuilding the economy. How can the public have economy. How can the public have their economy. How can the public have their say? economy. How can the public have their say? Mr economy. How can the public have their say? Mr Speaker, economy. How can the public have their say? Mr Speaker, the economy. How can the public have their say? Mr Speaker, the public their say? Mr Speaker, the public can their say? Mr Speaker, the public can provide their say? Mr Speaker, the public can provide feedback their say? Mr Speaker, the public can provide feedback and their say? Mr Speaker, the public can provide feedback and share their say? Mr Speaker, the public can provide feedback and share their can provide feedback and share their views can provide feedback and share their views on can provide feedback and share their views on the can provide feedback and share their views on the earthquake-prone views on the earthquake-prone building views on the earthquake-prone building system views on the earthquake-prone building system via views on the earthquake-prone building system via the views on the earthquake-prone building system via the website views on the earthquake-prone building system via the website or building system via the website or by building system via the website or by emailing building system via the website or by emailing or building system via the website or by emailing or via building system via the website or by emailing or via a building system via the website or by emailing or via a select by emailing or via a select committee by emailing or via a select committee process. by emailing or via a select committee process. We by emailing or via a select committee process. We to by emailing or via a select committee process. We to ensure by emailing or via a select committee process. We to ensure we committee process. We to ensure we have committee process. We to ensure we have rules committee process. We to ensure we have rules that committee process. We to ensure we have rules that work committee process. We to ensure we have rules that work for committee process. We to ensure we have rules that work for Kiwis. have rules that work for Kiwis. have rules that work for Kiwis. have rules that work for Kiwis. Question 7. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister for My question is to the Minister for Oceans My question is to the Minister for Oceans and My question is to the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries: for Oceans and Fisheries: Does for Oceans and Fisheries: Does he for Oceans and Fisheries: Does he agree for Oceans and Fisheries: Does he agree with for Oceans and Fisheries: Does he agree with the for Oceans and Fisheries: Does he agree with the statement Does he agree with the statement by Does he agree with the statement by the Does he agree with the statement by the Parliamentary Does he agree with the statement by the Parliamentary Commissioner by the Parliamentary Commissioner for by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment for the Environment that for the Environment that the for the Environment that the Resource for the Environment that the Resource Management that the Resource Management (Extended that the Resource Management (Extended Duration that the Resource Management (Extended Duration of that the Resource Management (Extended Duration of Coastal (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits for (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits for Marine (Extended Duration of Coastal Permits for Marine Farms) Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill is Permits for Marine Farms) Amendment Bill is a Amendment Bill is a "Bill Amendment Bill is a "Bill that Amendment Bill is a "Bill that is Amendment Bill is a "Bill that is a Amendment Bill is a "Bill that is a case "Bill that is a case of "Bill that is a case of a "Bill that is a case of a sledgehammer "Bill that is a case of a sledgehammer being "Bill that is a case of a sledgehammer being used of a sledgehammer being used to of a sledgehammer being used to crack of a sledgehammer being used to crack a of a sledgehammer being used to crack a nut"; of a sledgehammer being used to crack a nut"; if of a sledgehammer being used to crack a nut"; if not, of a sledgehammer being used to crack a nut"; if not, why of a sledgehammer being used to crack a nut"; if not, why not? On On behalf On behalf of On behalf of the On behalf of the Minister On behalf of the Minister - On behalf of the Minister - in. On behalf of the Minister - in. This On behalf of the Minister - in. This bill On behalf of the Minister - in. This bill responds On behalf of the Minister - in. This bill responds to On behalf of the Minister - in. This bill responds to longstanding On behalf of the Minister - in. This bill responds to longstanding and bill responds to longstanding and widespread bill responds to longstanding and widespread concerns bill responds to longstanding and widespread concerns by bill responds to longstanding and widespread concerns by the widespread concerns by the agriculture widespread concerns by the agriculture sector widespread concerns by the agriculture sector about widespread concerns by the agriculture sector about the widespread concerns by the agriculture sector about the costs agriculture sector about the costs and agriculture sector about the costs and uncertainty agriculture sector about the costs and uncertainty and agriculture sector about the costs and uncertainty and mahi, agriculture sector about the costs and uncertainty and mahi, that agriculture sector about the costs and uncertainty and mahi, that means and uncertainty and mahi, that means work, and uncertainty and mahi, that means work, associated and uncertainty and mahi, that means work, associated with and uncertainty and mahi, that means work, associated with reckon and uncertainty and mahi, that means work, associated with reckon sending work, associated with reckon sending processes work, associated with reckon sending processes from work, associated with reckon sending processes from existing work, associated with reckon sending processes from existing marine work, associated with reckon sending processes from existing marine farms processes from existing marine farms under processes from existing marine farms under the processes from existing marine farms under the Resource processes from existing marine farms under the Resource Management processes from existing marine farms under the Resource Management Act. under the Resource Management Act. This under the Resource Management Act. This process under the Resource Management Act. This process of under the Resource Management Act. This process of reckon under the Resource Management Act. This process of reckon sending under the Resource Management Act. This process of reckon sending is This process of reckon sending is inhibiting This process of reckon sending is inhibiting agriculture This process of reckon sending is inhibiting agriculture growth. This process of reckon sending is inhibiting agriculture growth. These inhibiting agriculture growth. These marine inhibiting agriculture growth. These marine farmers inhibiting agriculture growth. These marine farmers many inhibiting agriculture growth. These marine farmers many of inhibiting agriculture growth. These marine farmers many of whom inhibiting agriculture growth. These marine farmers many of whom are marine farmers many of whom are Maori marine farmers many of whom are Maori don't marine farmers many of whom are Maori don't want marine farmers many of whom are Maori don't want the marine farmers many of whom are Maori don't want the unnecessary Maori don't want the unnecessary costs Maori don't want the unnecessary costs or Maori don't want the unnecessary costs or uncertainty, Maori don't want the unnecessary costs or uncertainty, they Maori don't want the unnecessary costs or uncertainty, they want Maori don't want the unnecessary costs or uncertainty, they want to costs or uncertainty, they want to focus costs or uncertainty, they want to focus on costs or uncertainty, they want to focus on investment, costs or uncertainty, they want to focus on investment, on costs or uncertainty, they want to focus on investment, on jobs costs or uncertainty, they want to focus on investment, on jobs an focus on investment, on jobs an experts. focus on investment, on jobs an experts. Supplementary. focus on investment, on jobs an experts. Supplementary. What focus on investment, on jobs an experts. Supplementary. What does focus on investment, on jobs an experts. Supplementary. What does he experts. Supplementary. What does he say experts. Supplementary. What does he say to experts. Supplementary. What does he say to councils experts. Supplementary. What does he say to councils and experts. Supplementary. What does he say to councils and NGOs experts. Supplementary. What does he say to councils and NGOs who say to councils and NGOs who consider say to councils and NGOs who consider that say to councils and NGOs who consider that the say to councils and NGOs who consider that the national consider that the national environmental consider that the national environmental standards consider that the national environmental standards for consider that the national environmental standards for marine environmental standards for marine aquaculture environmental standards for marine aquaculture are environmental standards for marine aquaculture are working environmental standards for marine aquaculture are working efficiently aquaculture are working efficiently and aquaculture are working efficiently and effectively aquaculture are working efficiently and effectively for aquaculture are working efficiently and effectively for reckon aquaculture are working efficiently and effectively for reckon sending and effectively for reckon sending and and effectively for reckon sending and that and effectively for reckon sending and that a and effectively for reckon sending and that a blanket and effectively for reckon sending and that a blanket extension and effectively for reckon sending and that a blanket extension of and that a blanket extension of consents and that a blanket extension of consents for and that a blanket extension of consents for 1,200 and that a blanket extension of consents for 1,200 marine and that a blanket extension of consents for 1,200 marine farms and that a blanket extension of consents for 1,200 marine farms by and that a blanket extension of consents for 1,200 marine farms by a consents for 1,200 marine farms by a further consents for 1,200 marine farms by a further 20 consents for 1,200 marine farms by a further 20 years consents for 1,200 marine farms by a further 20 years is consents for 1,200 marine farms by a further 20 years is unnecessary? further 20 years is unnecessary? Well, further 20 years is unnecessary? Well, answering further 20 years is unnecessary? Well, answering both further 20 years is unnecessary? Well, answering both those further 20 years is unnecessary? Well, answering both those two Well, answering both those two questions Well, answering both those two questions - Well, answering both those two questions - the Well, answering both those two questions - the person Well, answering both those two questions - the person who Well, answering both those two questions - the person who first questions - the person who first drafted questions - the person who first drafted the questions - the person who first drafted the legislation questions - the person who first drafted the legislation is questions - the person who first drafted the legislation is the drafted the legislation is the Parliamentary drafted the legislation is the Parliamentary Commission drafted the legislation is the Parliamentary Commission for drafted the legislation is the Parliamentary Commission for the Parliamentary Commission for the Environment, Parliamentary Commission for the Environment, namely Parliamentary Commission for the Environment, namely Simon Parliamentary Commission for the Environment, namely Simon Upton, Environment, namely Simon Upton, this Environment, namely Simon Upton, this was Environment, namely Simon Upton, this was in Environment, namely Simon Upton, this was in 1991. Environment, namely Simon Upton, this was in 1991. He Environment, namely Simon Upton, this was in 1991. He was Environment, namely Simon Upton, this was in 1991. He was told Environment, namely Simon Upton, this was in 1991. He was told back this was in 1991. He was told back then this was in 1991. He was told back then it this was in 1991. He was told back then it wouldn't this was in 1991. He was told back then it wouldn't work, this was in 1991. He was told back then it wouldn't work, had this was in 1991. He was told back then it wouldn't work, had to this was in 1991. He was told back then it wouldn't work, had to be this was in 1991. He was told back then it wouldn't work, had to be - then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts of then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts of it then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts of it had then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts of it had to then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts of it had to be then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts of it had to be fixed then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts of it had to be fixed up then it wouldn't work, had to be - parts of it had to be fixed up to parts of it had to be fixed up to ensure parts of it had to be fixed up to ensure that parts of it had to be fixed up to ensure that the parts of it had to be fixed up to ensure that the kind parts of it had to be fixed up to ensure that the kind of parts of it had to be fixed up to ensure that the kind of exports ensure that the kind of exports which ensure that the kind of exports which we ensure that the kind of exports which we desperately ensure that the kind of exports which we desperately need ensure that the kind of exports which we desperately need in ensure that the kind of exports which we desperately need in a ensure that the kind of exports which we desperately need in a safe which we desperately need in a safe environment which we desperately need in a safe environment went which we desperately need in a safe environment went ahead. which we desperately need in a safe environment went ahead. Of which we desperately need in a safe environment went ahead. Of course, environment went ahead. Of course, he's environment went ahead. Of course, he's entitled environment went ahead. Of course, he's entitled to environment went ahead. Of course, he's entitled to his environment went ahead. Of course, he's entitled to his opinion environment went ahead. Of course, he's entitled to his opinion and environment went ahead. Of course, he's entitled to his opinion and so he's entitled to his opinion and so are he's entitled to his opinion and so are those he's entitled to his opinion and so are those other he's entitled to his opinion and so are those other councils he's entitled to his opinion and so are those other councils except he's entitled to his opinion and so are those other councils except in are those other councils except in they're are those other councils except in they're dramatically are those other councils except in they're dramatically wrong. are those other councils except in they're dramatically wrong. Why are those other councils except in they're dramatically wrong. Why did they're dramatically wrong. Why did we they're dramatically wrong. Why did we have they're dramatically wrong. Why did we have all they're dramatically wrong. Why did we have all this they're dramatically wrong. Why did we have all this time they're dramatically wrong. Why did we have all this time and they're dramatically wrong. Why did we have all this time and money they're dramatically wrong. Why did we have all this time and money for we have all this time and money for a we have all this time and money for a simple we have all this time and money for a simple resource we have all this time and money for a simple resource consent? we have all this time and money for a simple resource consent? Why we have all this time and money for a simple resource consent? Why do we have all this time and money for a simple resource consent? Why do we a simple resource consent? Why do we have a simple resource consent? Why do we have so a simple resource consent? Why do we have so many a simple resource consent? Why do we have so many other a simple resource consent? Why do we have so many other precious have so many other precious operations have so many other precious operations which have so many other precious operations which will have so many other precious operations which will bring have so many other precious operations which will bring wealth operations which will bring wealth to operations which will bring wealth to our operations which will bring wealth to our country operations which will bring wealth to our country to operations which will bring wealth to our country to all operations which will bring wealth to our country to all sorts operations which will bring wealth to our country to all sorts of to our country to all sorts of people to our country to all sorts of people and to our country to all sorts of people and parallel to our country to all sorts of people and parallel the to our country to all sorts of people and parallel the biggest people and parallel the biggest muscle people and parallel the biggest muscle farm people and parallel the biggest muscle farm in people and parallel the biggest muscle farm in the people and parallel the biggest muscle farm in the world people and parallel the biggest muscle farm in the world now people and parallel the biggest muscle farm in the world now being muscle farm in the world now being built muscle farm in the world now being built in muscle farm in the world now being built in Opotiki, muscle farm in the world now being built in Opotiki, why muscle farm in the world now being built in Opotiki, why don't muscle farm in the world now being built in Opotiki, why don't we muscle farm in the world now being built in Opotiki, why don't we focus built in Opotiki, why don't we focus on built in Opotiki, why don't we focus on that built in Opotiki, why don't we focus on that as built in Opotiki, why don't we focus on that as being built in Opotiki, why don't we focus on that as being our built in Opotiki, why don't we focus on that as being our purpose built in Opotiki, why don't we focus on that as being our purpose rather on that as being our purpose rather than on that as being our purpose rather than constant on that as being our purpose rather than constant big on that as being our purpose rather than constant big city, on that as being our purpose rather than constant big city, come on that as being our purpose rather than constant big city, come -- than constant big city, come -- small-minded than constant big city, come -- small-minded complaint. small-minded complaint. Supplementary. small-minded complaint. Supplementary. How small-minded complaint. Supplementary. How does small-minded complaint. Supplementary. How does he small-minded complaint. Supplementary. How does he reconcile Supplementary. How does he reconcile blanket Supplementary. How does he reconcile blanket consenting Supplementary. How does he reconcile blanket consenting 1,200 Supplementary. How does he reconcile blanket consenting 1,200 marine blanket consenting 1,200 marine farms blanket consenting 1,200 marine farms by blanket consenting 1,200 marine farms by another blanket consenting 1,200 marine farms by another 20 blanket consenting 1,200 marine farms by another 20 years blanket consenting 1,200 marine farms by another 20 years pushing farms by another 20 years pushing aside farms by another 20 years pushing aside environmental farms by another 20 years pushing aside environmental standards farms by another 20 years pushing aside environmental standards and aside environmental standards and upholding aside environmental standards and upholding Crown's aside environmental standards and upholding Crown's obligations aside environmental standards and upholding Crown's obligations to aside environmental standards and upholding Crown's obligations to Te upholding Crown's obligations to Te Tiriti upholding Crown's obligations to Te Tiriti o upholding Crown's obligations to Te Tiriti o Waitangi upholding Crown's obligations to Te Tiriti o Waitangi with upholding Crown's obligations to Te Tiriti o Waitangi with three upholding Crown's obligations to Te Tiriti o Waitangi with three trade Tiriti o Waitangi with three trade obligations Tiriti o Waitangi with three trade obligations and Tiriti o Waitangi with three trade obligations and particularly obligations and particularly chapters obligations and particularly chapters that obligations and particularly chapters that relate obligations and particularly chapters that relate to obligations and particularly chapters that relate to Maori obligations and particularly chapters that relate to Maori of chapters that relate to Maori of marine chapters that relate to Maori of marine ecosystems chapters that relate to Maori of marine ecosystems and chapters that relate to Maori of marine ecosystems and kaitiaki marine ecosystems and kaitiaki tanga. marine ecosystems and kaitiaki tanga. That marine ecosystems and kaitiaki tanga. That is marine ecosystems and kaitiaki tanga. That is not marine ecosystems and kaitiaki tanga. That is not a marine ecosystems and kaitiaki tanga. That is not a matter marine ecosystems and kaitiaki tanga. That is not a matter of tanga. That is not a matter of reconciliation. tanga. That is not a matter of reconciliation. When tanga. That is not a matter of reconciliation. When you tanga. That is not a matter of reconciliation. When you stand tanga. That is not a matter of reconciliation. When you stand up tanga. That is not a matter of reconciliation. When you stand up by reconciliation. When you stand up by way reconciliation. When you stand up by way of reconciliation. When you stand up by way of a reconciliation. When you stand up by way of a question, reconciliation. When you stand up by way of a question, stated reconciliation. When you stand up by way of a question, stated a reconciliation. When you stand up by way of a question, stated a number way of a question, stated a number of way of a question, stated a number of untruths way of a question, stated a number of untruths and way of a question, stated a number of untruths and misnomers way of a question, stated a number of untruths and misnomers it of untruths and misnomers it requires of untruths and misnomers it requires no of untruths and misnomers it requires no response of untruths and misnomers it requires no response at of untruths and misnomers it requires no response at all of untruths and misnomers it requires no response at all other requires no response at all other than requires no response at all other than to requires no response at all other than to say requires no response at all other than to say this: requires no response at all other than to say this: This requires no response at all other than to say this: This bill requires no response at all other than to say this: This bill does requires no response at all other than to say this: This bill does not than to say this: This bill does not change than to say this: This bill does not change or than to say this: This bill does not change or remove than to say this: This bill does not change or remove the than to say this: This bill does not change or remove the existing than to say this: This bill does not change or remove the existing RMA change or remove the existing RMA provisions change or remove the existing RMA provisions that change or remove the existing RMA provisions that manage change or remove the existing RMA provisions that manage consented provisions that manage consented activities. provisions that manage consented activities. Existing provisions that manage consented activities. Existing marine provisions that manage consented activities. Existing marine farms activities. Existing marine farms will activities. Existing marine farms will continue activities. Existing marine farms will continue to activities. Existing marine farms will continue to operate activities. Existing marine farms will continue to operate under activities. Existing marine farms will continue to operate under the will continue to operate under the conditions will continue to operate under the conditions of will continue to operate under the conditions of their will continue to operate under the conditions of their consent conditions of their consent according conditions of their consent according to conditions of their consent according to the conditions of their consent according to the RMA. conditions of their consent according to the RMA. Those conditions of their consent according to the RMA. Those are conditions of their consent according to the RMA. Those are the according to the RMA. Those are the facts according to the RMA. Those are the facts that according to the RMA. Those are the facts that should according to the RMA. Those are the facts that should be according to the RMA. Those are the facts that should be understood. facts that should be understood. Many facts that should be understood. Many marine facts that should be understood. Many marine farms facts that should be understood. Many marine farms consent... facts that should be understood. Many marine farms consent... Under Many marine farms consent... Under the Many marine farms consent... Under the RMA. Many marine farms consent... Under the RMA. The Many marine farms consent... Under the RMA. The bill Many marine farms consent... Under the RMA. The bill also Many marine farms consent... Under the RMA. The bill also provides the RMA. The bill also provides councils the RMA. The bill also provides councils with the RMA. The bill also provides councils with a the RMA. The bill also provides councils with a one-off the RMA. The bill also provides councils with a one-off opportunity councils with a one-off opportunity to councils with a one-off opportunity to review councils with a one-off opportunity to review the councils with a one-off opportunity to review the conditions councils with a one-off opportunity to review the conditions of councils with a one-off opportunity to review the conditions of any to review the conditions of any consent to review the conditions of any consent stated to review the conditions of any consent stated under to review the conditions of any consent stated under this to review the conditions of any consent stated under this bill to review the conditions of any consent stated under this bill to consent stated under this bill to update consent stated under this bill to update them consent stated under this bill to update them to consent stated under this bill to update them to improve consent stated under this bill to update them to improve the update them to improve the environmental update them to improve the environmental management update them to improve the environmental management of update them to improve the environmental management of the environmental management of the consented environmental management of the consented activity. environmental management of the consented activity. But environmental management of the consented activity. But the environmental management of the consented activity. But the CEO environmental management of the consented activity. But the CEO of consented activity. But the CEO of the consented activity. But the CEO of the ministry consented activity. But the CEO of the ministry of consented activity. But the CEO of the ministry of primary consented activity. But the CEO of the ministry of primary industry consented activity. But the CEO of the ministry of primary industry is the ministry of primary industry is required the ministry of primary industry is required to the ministry of primary industry is required to agree the ministry of primary industry is required to agree so the ministry of primary industry is required to agree so that the ministry of primary industry is required to agree so that they the ministry of primary industry is required to agree so that they do required to agree so that they do not required to agree so that they do not stop required to agree so that they do not stop people required to agree so that they do not stop people trying required to agree so that they do not stop people trying to required to agree so that they do not stop people trying to progress not stop people trying to progress in not stop people trying to progress in these not stop people trying to progress in these difficult not stop people trying to progress in these difficult times not stop people trying to progress in these difficult times from in these difficult times from starting in these difficult times from starting new in these difficult times from starting new jobs in these difficult times from starting new jobs and in these difficult times from starting new jobs and new in these difficult times from starting new jobs and new export starting new jobs and new export industries starting new jobs and new export industries and starting new jobs and new export industries and turning starting new jobs and new export industries and turning this starting new jobs and new export industries and turning this economy industries and turning this economy around. industries and turning this economy around. Question industries and turning this economy around. Question 8. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister for My question is to the Minister for Children: Minister for Children: What Minister for Children: What evidence Minister for Children: What evidence does Minister for Children: What evidence does she Minister for Children: What evidence does she have What evidence does she have to What evidence does she have to substantiate What evidence does she have to substantiate her What evidence does she have to substantiate her statement, to substantiate her statement, "For to substantiate her statement, "For too to substantiate her statement, "For too many to substantiate her statement, "For too many years, "For too many years, Oranga "For too many years, Oranga Tamariki Oranga Tamariki has Oranga Tamariki has been Oranga Tamariki has been the Oranga Tamariki has been the cash Oranga Tamariki has been the cash cow has been the cash cow for has been the cash cow for community has been the cash cow for community service has been the cash cow for community service providers for community service providers who for community service providers who say for community service providers who say they for community service providers who say they will for community service providers who say they will provide for community service providers who say they will provide services, who say they will provide services, and who say they will provide services, and then who say they will provide services, and then don't"? Mr Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, I Mr Speaker, I refer Mr Speaker, I refer the Mr Speaker, I refer the member Mr Speaker, I refer the member to Mr Speaker, I refer the member to the Mr Speaker, I refer the member to the $22 Mr Speaker, I refer the member to the $22 million Mr Speaker, I refer the member to the $22 million Oranga Mr Speaker, I refer the member to the $22 million Oranga Tamariki Mr Speaker, I refer the member to the $22 million Oranga Tamariki has the $22 million Oranga Tamariki has already the $22 million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered the $22 million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered from the $22 million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered from the the $22 million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered from the last already recovered from the last financial already recovered from the last financial year already recovered from the last financial year where already recovered from the last financial year where services financial year where services weren't financial year where services weren't delivered financial year where services weren't delivered with financial year where services weren't delivered with more financial year where services weren't delivered with more expected weren't delivered with more expected to weren't delivered with more expected to come. weren't delivered with more expected to come. In weren't delivered with more expected to come. In previous weren't delivered with more expected to come. In previous years, weren't delivered with more expected to come. In previous years, some to come. In previous years, some providers to come. In previous years, some providers have to come. In previous years, some providers have accumulated providers have accumulated significant providers have accumulated significant surpluses providers have accumulated significant surpluses and providers have accumulated significant surpluses and this providers have accumulated significant surpluses and this is significant surpluses and this is unacceptable. significant surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every significant surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every cent significant surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every cent of significant surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer funding providers unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive need unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive need to funding providers receive need to reach funding providers receive need to reach the funding providers receive need to reach the children funding providers receive need to reach the children and funding providers receive need to reach the children and young funding providers receive need to reach the children and young people reach the children and young people for reach the children and young people for its reach the children and young people for its intended reach the children and young people for its intended purpose, reach the children and young people for its intended purpose, not reach the children and young people for its intended purpose, not sit reach the children and young people for its intended purpose, not sit in for its intended purpose, not sit in their for its intended purpose, not sit in their bank for its intended purpose, not sit in their bank accounts. for its intended purpose, not sit in their bank accounts. I for its intended purpose, not sit in their bank accounts. I also for its intended purpose, not sit in their bank accounts. I also refer for its intended purpose, not sit in their bank accounts. I also refer to their bank accounts. I also refer to the their bank accounts. I also refer to the member their bank accounts. I also refer to the member to their bank accounts. I also refer to the member to an their bank accounts. I also refer to the member to an email their bank accounts. I also refer to the member to an email I their bank accounts. I also refer to the member to an email I reefed their bank accounts. I also refer to the member to an email I reefed this the member to an email I reefed this morning the member to an email I reefed this morning from the member to an email I reefed this morning from a the member to an email I reefed this morning from a lawyer the member to an email I reefed this morning from a lawyer who the member to an email I reefed this morning from a lawyer who works the member to an email I reefed this morning from a lawyer who works in morning from a lawyer who works in this morning from a lawyer who works in this space morning from a lawyer who works in this space who morning from a lawyer who works in this space who said, morning from a lawyer who works in this space who said, quote, morning from a lawyer who works in this space who said, quote, "I morning from a lawyer who works in this space who said, quote, "I have this space who said, quote, "I have been this space who said, quote, "I have been appalled this space who said, quote, "I have been appalled over this space who said, quote, "I have been appalled over the this space who said, quote, "I have been appalled over the past this space who said, quote, "I have been appalled over the past few been appalled over the past few years been appalled over the past few years at been appalled over the past few years at how been appalled over the past few years at how much been appalled over the past few years at how much taxpayer been appalled over the past few years at how much taxpayer money been appalled over the past few years at how much taxpayer money has years at how much taxpayer money has been years at how much taxpayer money has been wasted years at how much taxpayer money has been wasted on years at how much taxpayer money has been wasted on agencies years at how much taxpayer money has been wasted on agencies that years at how much taxpayer money has been wasted on agencies that make been wasted on agencies that make big been wasted on agencies that make big claims been wasted on agencies that make big claims yet been wasted on agencies that make big claims yet deliver been wasted on agencies that make big claims yet deliver nothing been wasted on agencies that make big claims yet deliver nothing but been wasted on agencies that make big claims yet deliver nothing but a big claims yet deliver nothing but a glorified big claims yet deliver nothing but a glorified baby-sitting big claims yet deliver nothing but a glorified baby-sitting service." big claims yet deliver nothing but a glorified baby-sitting service." Mr glorified baby-sitting service." Mr Speaker, glorified baby-sitting service." Mr Speaker, this glorified baby-sitting service." Mr Speaker, this is glorified baby-sitting service." Mr Speaker, this is a glorified baby-sitting service." Mr Speaker, this is a Government glorified baby-sitting service." Mr Speaker, this is a Government that Speaker, this is a Government that is Speaker, this is a Government that is making Speaker, this is a Government that is making sure Speaker, this is a Government that is making sure that Speaker, this is a Government that is making sure that that Speaker, this is a Government that is making sure that that money Speaker, this is a Government that is making sure that that money will is making sure that that money will be is making sure that that money will be used is making sure that that money will be used where is making sure that that money will be used where it is making sure that that money will be used where it is is making sure that that money will be used where it is needed, is making sure that that money will be used where it is needed, with be used where it is needed, with organisations be used where it is needed, with organisations that be used where it is needed, with organisations that are be used where it is needed, with organisations that are struggling organisations that are struggling for organisations that are struggling for funding organisations that are struggling for funding when organisations that are struggling for funding when it's organisations that are struggling for funding when it's sitting organisations that are struggling for funding when it's sitting in for funding when it's sitting in bank for funding when it's sitting in bank accounts for funding when it's sitting in bank accounts unused. for funding when it's sitting in bank accounts unused. Supplementary. bank accounts unused. Supplementary. When bank accounts unused. Supplementary. When she bank accounts unused. Supplementary. When she stated bank accounts unused. Supplementary. When she stated in bank accounts unused. Supplementary. When she stated in her bank accounts unused. Supplementary. When she stated in her press When she stated in her press release, When she stated in her press release, quote, When she stated in her press release, quote, "The When she stated in her press release, quote, "The funding When she stated in her press release, quote, "The funding they release, quote, "The funding they provide release, quote, "The funding they provide is release, quote, "The funding they provide is for release, quote, "The funding they provide is for the release, quote, "The funding they provide is for the care release, quote, "The funding they provide is for the care and provide is for the care and protection provide is for the care and protection of provide is for the care and protection of children provide is for the care and protection of children in provide is for the care and protection of children in state protection of children in state care, protection of children in state care, nothing protection of children in state care, nothing more, protection of children in state care, nothing more, nothing protection of children in state care, nothing more, nothing less", care, nothing more, nothing less", when care, nothing more, nothing less", when referring care, nothing more, nothing less", when referring to care, nothing more, nothing less", when referring to Oranga care, nothing more, nothing less", when referring to Oranga Tamariki, when referring to Oranga Tamariki, does when referring to Oranga Tamariki, does this when referring to Oranga Tamariki, does this mean when referring to Oranga Tamariki, does this mean that when referring to Oranga Tamariki, does this mean that family when referring to Oranga Tamariki, does this mean that family services does this mean that family services that does this mean that family services that prevent does this mean that family services that prevent children does this mean that family services that prevent children going does this mean that family services that prevent children going into that prevent children going into state that prevent children going into state care that prevent children going into state care will that prevent children going into state care will no that prevent children going into state care will no longer that prevent children going into state care will no longer be that prevent children going into state care will no longer be funded? state care will no longer be funded? Mr state care will no longer be funded? Mr Speaker, state care will no longer be funded? Mr Speaker, I state care will no longer be funded? Mr Speaker, I instructed state care will no longer be funded? Mr Speaker, I instructed Oranga Mr Speaker, I instructed Oranga Tamariki Mr Speaker, I instructed Oranga Tamariki to Mr Speaker, I instructed Oranga Tamariki to get Mr Speaker, I instructed Oranga Tamariki to get back Mr Speaker, I instructed Oranga Tamariki to get back to Mr Speaker, I instructed Oranga Tamariki to get back to their Mr Speaker, I instructed Oranga Tamariki to get back to their core Tamariki to get back to their core purpose Tamariki to get back to their core purpose and Tamariki to get back to their core purpose and do Tamariki to get back to their core purpose and do their Tamariki to get back to their core purpose and do their core Tamariki to get back to their core purpose and do their core purpose purpose and do their core purpose well purpose and do their core purpose well which purpose and do their core purpose well which is purpose and do their core purpose well which is to purpose and do their core purpose well which is to the purpose and do their core purpose well which is to the best purpose and do their core purpose well which is to the best interests well which is to the best interests of well which is to the best interests of children well which is to the best interests of children in well which is to the best interests of children in care well which is to the best interests of children in care and well which is to the best interests of children in care and that well which is to the best interests of children in care and that are well which is to the best interests of children in care and that are at of children in care and that are at the of children in care and that are at the attention of children in care and that are at the attention of of children in care and that are at the attention of Oranga of children in care and that are at the attention of Oranga Tamariki. the attention of Oranga Tamariki. Does the attention of Oranga Tamariki. Does she the attention of Oranga Tamariki. Does she consider the attention of Oranga Tamariki. Does she consider that the attention of Oranga Tamariki. Does she consider that Oranga Does she consider that Oranga Tamariki Does she consider that Oranga Tamariki has Does she consider that Oranga Tamariki has a Does she consider that Oranga Tamariki has a role Does she consider that Oranga Tamariki has a role in Does she consider that Oranga Tamariki has a role in assisting Tamariki has a role in assisting families, Tamariki has a role in assisting families, whanau, Tamariki has a role in assisting families, whanau, hapu, Tamariki has a role in assisting families, whanau, hapu, iwi Tamariki has a role in assisting families, whanau, hapu, iwi and families, whanau, hapu, iwi and family families, whanau, hapu, iwi and family groups families, whanau, hapu, iwi and family groups at families, whanau, hapu, iwi and family groups at the families, whanau, hapu, iwi and family groups at the earliest family groups at the earliest opportunity family groups at the earliest opportunity to family groups at the earliest opportunity to meet family groups at the earliest opportunity to meet the family groups at the earliest opportunity to meet the needs family groups at the earliest opportunity to meet the needs of opportunity to meet the needs of their opportunity to meet the needs of their children opportunity to meet the needs of their children and opportunity to meet the needs of their children and young opportunity to meet the needs of their children and young persons? opportunity to meet the needs of their children and young persons? If their children and young persons? If not, their children and young persons? If not, who their children and young persons? If not, who holds their children and young persons? If not, who holds this their children and young persons? If not, who holds this responsibility? not, who holds this responsibility? Absolutely, not, who holds this responsibility? Absolutely, Mr not, who holds this responsibility? Absolutely, Mr Speaker. not, who holds this responsibility? Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But not, who holds this responsibility? Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not, who holds this responsibility? Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not just Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not just up Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not just up to Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not just up to Oranga Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not just up to Oranga Tamariki Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not just up to Oranga Tamariki to Absolutely, Mr Speaker. But it's not just up to Oranga Tamariki to fix just up to Oranga Tamariki to fix this just up to Oranga Tamariki to fix this problem, just up to Oranga Tamariki to fix this problem, it's just up to Oranga Tamariki to fix this problem, it's up just up to Oranga Tamariki to fix this problem, it's up to just up to Oranga Tamariki to fix this problem, it's up to all just up to Oranga Tamariki to fix this problem, it's up to all of this problem, it's up to all of Government this problem, it's up to all of Government agencies this problem, it's up to all of Government agencies and this problem, it's up to all of Government agencies and also this problem, it's up to all of Government agencies and also society Government agencies and also society itself. Government agencies and also society itself. Step Government agencies and also society itself. Step up Government agencies and also society itself. Step up when Government agencies and also society itself. Step up when you Government agencies and also society itself. Step up when you see itself. Step up when you see something itself. Step up when you see something is itself. Step up when you see something is wrong itself. Step up when you see something is wrong with itself. Step up when you see something is wrong with our itself. Step up when you see something is wrong with our young something is wrong with our young people. something is wrong with our young people. Speak something is wrong with our young people. Speak up something is wrong with our young people. Speak up when something is wrong with our young people. Speak up when you something is wrong with our young people. Speak up when you see people. Speak up when you see something people. Speak up when you see something is people. Speak up when you see something is happening people. Speak up when you see something is happening with people. Speak up when you see something is happening with our something is happening with our young something is happening with our young people. something is happening with our young people. And something is happening with our young people. And don't something is happening with our young people. And don't just something is happening with our young people. And don't just rely something is happening with our young people. And don't just rely on young people. And don't just rely on Government young people. And don't just rely on Government to young people. And don't just rely on Government to fix young people. And don't just rely on Government to fix it. Government to fix it. (INTERJECTIONS) (INTERJECTIONS) Is (INTERJECTIONS) Is she (INTERJECTIONS) Is she aware (INTERJECTIONS) Is she aware - (INTERJECTIONS) Is she aware - is (INTERJECTIONS) Is she aware - is she (INTERJECTIONS) Is she aware - is she aware (INTERJECTIONS) Is she aware - is she aware that (INTERJECTIONS) Is she aware - is she aware that the Is she aware - is she aware that the previous Is she aware - is she aware that the previous statement Is she aware - is she aware that the previous statement is Is she aware - is she aware that the previous statement is one Is she aware - is she aware that the previous statement is one of Is she aware - is she aware that the previous statement is one of the previous statement is one of the statutory previous statement is one of the statutory purposes previous statement is one of the statutory purposes of previous statement is one of the statutory purposes of Oranga statutory purposes of Oranga Tamariki statutory purposes of Oranga Tamariki in statutory purposes of Oranga Tamariki in the statutory purposes of Oranga Tamariki in the Act? statutory purposes of Oranga Tamariki in the Act? And statutory purposes of Oranga Tamariki in the Act? And if statutory purposes of Oranga Tamariki in the Act? And if so, statutory purposes of Oranga Tamariki in the Act? And if so, does Tamariki in the Act? And if so, does she Tamariki in the Act? And if so, does she intend Tamariki in the Act? And if so, does she intend to Tamariki in the Act? And if so, does she intend to repeal Tamariki in the Act? And if so, does she intend to repeal the Tamariki in the Act? And if so, does she intend to repeal the purpose Tamariki in the Act? And if so, does she intend to repeal the purpose of she intend to repeal the purpose of the she intend to repeal the purpose of the Oranga she intend to repeal the purpose of the Oranga Tamariki she intend to repeal the purpose of the Oranga Tamariki Act she intend to repeal the purpose of the Oranga Tamariki Act along she intend to repeal the purpose of the Oranga Tamariki Act along with the Oranga Tamariki Act along with Section the Oranga Tamariki Act along with Section 7AA? the Oranga Tamariki Act along with Section 7AA? <INTERRUPTION> Section 7AA? <INTERRUPTION> The Section 7AA? <INTERRUPTION> The Minister Section 7AA? <INTERRUPTION> The Minister may Section 7AA? <INTERRUPTION> The Minister may like Section 7AA? <INTERRUPTION> The Minister may like to Section 7AA? <INTERRUPTION> The Minister may like to comment Section 7AA? <INTERRUPTION> The Minister may like to comment but The Minister may like to comment but it's The Minister may like to comment but it's probably The Minister may like to comment but it's probably answered The Minister may like to comment but it's probably answered pretty The Minister may like to comment but it's probably answered pretty much it's probably answered pretty much in it's probably answered pretty much in the it's probably answered pretty much in the previous it's probably answered pretty much in the previous answer. it's probably answered pretty much in the previous answer. Mr it's probably answered pretty much in the previous answer. Mr Speaker, in the previous answer. Mr Speaker, Oranga in the previous answer. Mr Speaker, Oranga Tamariki's in the previous answer. Mr Speaker, Oranga Tamariki's job in the previous answer. Mr Speaker, Oranga Tamariki's job is in the previous answer. Mr Speaker, Oranga Tamariki's job is to in the previous answer. Mr Speaker, Oranga Tamariki's job is to protect Oranga Tamariki's job is to protect the Oranga Tamariki's job is to protect the children Oranga Tamariki's job is to protect the children in Oranga Tamariki's job is to protect the children in their Oranga Tamariki's job is to protect the children in their care Oranga Tamariki's job is to protect the children in their care and Oranga Tamariki's job is to protect the children in their care and to the children in their care and to make the children in their care and to make sure the children in their care and to make sure they're the children in their care and to make sure they're protecting the children in their care and to make sure they're protecting any make sure they're protecting any children make sure they're protecting any children that make sure they're protecting any children that come make sure they're protecting any children that come - make sure they're protecting any children that come - up make sure they're protecting any children that come - up to make sure they're protecting any children that come - up to their children that come - up to their attention children that come - up to their attention with children that come - up to their attention with report children that come - up to their attention with report of children that come - up to their attention with report of concerns. attention with report of concerns. point attention with report of concerns. point of attention with report of concerns. point of order. attention with report of concerns. point of order. Point attention with report of concerns. point of order. Point of attention with report of concerns. point of order. Point of order. attention with report of concerns. point of order. Point of order. A point of order. Point of order. A point point of order. Point of order. A point of point of order. Point of order. A point of order, point of order. Point of order. A point of order, Mr point of order. Point of order. A point of order, Mr Speaker. point of order. Point of order. A point of order, Mr Speaker. I point of order. Point of order. A point of order, Mr Speaker. I think point of order, Mr Speaker. I think we're point of order, Mr Speaker. I think we're dancing point of order, Mr Speaker. I think we're dancing around point of order, Mr Speaker. I think we're dancing around here. point of order, Mr Speaker. I think we're dancing around here. The point of order, Mr Speaker. I think we're dancing around here. The point we're dancing around here. The point the we're dancing around here. The point the Minister we're dancing around here. The point the Minister made we're dancing around here. The point the Minister made was we're dancing around here. The point the Minister made was that we're dancing around here. The point the Minister made was that Oranga the Minister made was that Oranga Tamariki the Minister made was that Oranga Tamariki would the Minister made was that Oranga Tamariki would only the Minister made was that Oranga Tamariki would only fund the Minister made was that Oranga Tamariki would only fund children the Minister made was that Oranga Tamariki would only fund children in Tamariki would only fund children in state Tamariki would only fund children in state care. Tamariki would only fund children in state care. They Tamariki would only fund children in state care. They would Tamariki would only fund children in state care. They would not Tamariki would only fund children in state care. They would not be state care. They would not be funding state care. They would not be funding children state care. They would not be funding children and state care. They would not be funding children and their state care. They would not be funding children and their families funding children and their families in funding children and their families in order funding children and their families in order to funding children and their families in order to provide funding children and their families in order to provide prevention in order to provide prevention service. in order to provide prevention service. She in order to provide prevention service. She stated in order to provide prevention service. She stated that. in order to provide prevention service. She stated that. And in order to provide prevention service. She stated that. And so in order to provide prevention service. She stated that. And so my service. She stated that. And so my question service. She stated that. And so my question was service. She stated that. And so my question was to service. She stated that. And so my question was to her service. She stated that. And so my question was to her - service. She stated that. And so my question was to her - how service. She stated that. And so my question was to her - how can service. She stated that. And so my question was to her - how can the question was to her - how can the purpose question was to her - how can the purpose of question was to her - how can the purpose of the question was to her - how can the purpose of the Act question was to her - how can the purpose of the Act be question was to her - how can the purpose of the Act be fulfilled question was to her - how can the purpose of the Act be fulfilled if purpose of the Act be fulfilled if she's purpose of the Act be fulfilled if she's not purpose of the Act be fulfilled if she's not taking purpose of the Act be fulfilled if she's not taking that purpose of the Act be fulfilled if she's not taking that preventive she's not taking that preventive action? she's not taking that preventive action? Yeah, she's not taking that preventive action? Yeah, my she's not taking that preventive action? Yeah, my recollection she's not taking that preventive action? Yeah, my recollection is action? Yeah, my recollection is that action? Yeah, my recollection is that you action? Yeah, my recollection is that you asked action? Yeah, my recollection is that you asked - action? Yeah, my recollection is that you asked - you action? Yeah, my recollection is that you asked - you asked action? Yeah, my recollection is that you asked - you asked her action? Yeah, my recollection is that you asked - you asked her what that you asked - you asked her what was that you asked - you asked her what was the that you asked - you asked her what was the purpose that you asked - you asked her what was the purpose of that you asked - you asked her what was the purpose of the that you asked - you asked her what was the purpose of the Act, that you asked - you asked her what was the purpose of the Act, and that you asked - you asked her what was the purpose of the Act, and you was the purpose of the Act, and you outlined was the purpose of the Act, and you outlined some was the purpose of the Act, and you outlined some views was the purpose of the Act, and you outlined some views there. was the purpose of the Act, and you outlined some views there. Her outlined some views there. Her answer, outlined some views there. Her answer, the outlined some views there. Her answer, the Minister's outlined some views there. Her answer, the Minister's answer outlined some views there. Her answer, the Minister's answer to answer, the Minister's answer to you, answer, the Minister's answer to you, started answer, the Minister's answer to you, started with, answer, the Minister's answer to you, started with, "Absolutely", answer, the Minister's answer to you, started with, "Absolutely", and you, started with, "Absolutely", and I you, started with, "Absolutely", and I think you, started with, "Absolutely", and I think to you, started with, "Absolutely", and I think to then you, started with, "Absolutely", and I think to then have you, started with, "Absolutely", and I think to then have another I think to then have another question I think to then have another question that I think to then have another question that questions I think to then have another question that questions the I think to then have another question that questions the answer question that questions the answer needs question that questions the answer needs to question that questions the answer needs to be question that questions the answer needs to be a question that questions the answer needs to be a little question that questions the answer needs to be a little clearer question that questions the answer needs to be a little clearer than needs to be a little clearer than perhaps needs to be a little clearer than perhaps it needs to be a little clearer than perhaps it was needs to be a little clearer than perhaps it was put. needs to be a little clearer than perhaps it was put. So needs to be a little clearer than perhaps it was put. So without needs to be a little clearer than perhaps it was put. So without loss perhaps it was put. So without loss of perhaps it was put. So without loss of one perhaps it was put. So without loss of one of perhaps it was put. So without loss of one of the perhaps it was put. So without loss of one of the party's perhaps it was put. So without loss of one of the party's sups, perhaps it was put. So without loss of one of the party's sups, try perhaps it was put. So without loss of one of the party's sups, try to of one of the party's sups, try to put of one of the party's sups, try to put it of one of the party's sups, try to put it in of one of the party's sups, try to put it in a of one of the party's sups, try to put it in a different of one of the party's sups, try to put it in a different way. of one of the party's sups, try to put it in a different way. How of one of the party's sups, try to put it in a different way. How can put it in a different way. How can Oranga put it in a different way. How can Oranga Tamariki put it in a different way. How can Oranga Tamariki fulfil put it in a different way. How can Oranga Tamariki fulfil the put it in a different way. How can Oranga Tamariki fulfil the statutory Oranga Tamariki fulfil the statutory requirements Oranga Tamariki fulfil the statutory requirements to Oranga Tamariki fulfil the statutory requirements to act Oranga Tamariki fulfil the statutory requirements to act at Oranga Tamariki fulfil the statutory requirements to act at the Oranga Tamariki fulfil the statutory requirements to act at the earliest requirements to act at the earliest opportunity requirements to act at the earliest opportunity to requirements to act at the earliest opportunity to meet requirements to act at the earliest opportunity to meet the requirements to act at the earliest opportunity to meet the needs requirements to act at the earliest opportunity to meet the needs of opportunity to meet the needs of children, opportunity to meet the needs of children, young opportunity to meet the needs of children, young people opportunity to meet the needs of children, young people if opportunity to meet the needs of children, young people if they're children, young people if they're not children, young people if they're not funded children, young people if they're not funded to children, young people if they're not funded to undertake children, young people if they're not funded to undertake prevent children, young people if they're not funded to undertake prevent ive not funded to undertake prevent ive services not funded to undertake prevent ive services that not funded to undertake prevent ive services that would not funded to undertake prevent ive services that would occur not funded to undertake prevent ive services that would occur before not funded to undertake prevent ive services that would occur before a services that would occur before a child services that would occur before a child or services that would occur before a child or young services that would occur before a child or young person services that would occur before a child or young person enters services that would occur before a child or young person enters into child or young person enters into state child or young person enters into state care? child or young person enters into state care? Mr child or young person enters into state care? Mr Speaker, child or young person enters into state care? Mr Speaker, there child or young person enters into state care? Mr Speaker, there are state care? Mr Speaker, there are many state care? Mr Speaker, there are many ways state care? Mr Speaker, there are many ways a state care? Mr Speaker, there are many ways a child state care? Mr Speaker, there are many ways a child can state care? Mr Speaker, there are many ways a child can come state care? Mr Speaker, there are many ways a child can come to state care? Mr Speaker, there are many ways a child can come to the many ways a child can come to the attention many ways a child can come to the attention of many ways a child can come to the attention of Oranga many ways a child can come to the attention of Oranga Tamariki, many ways a child can come to the attention of Oranga Tamariki, not attention of Oranga Tamariki, not just attention of Oranga Tamariki, not just being attention of Oranga Tamariki, not just being placed attention of Oranga Tamariki, not just being placed into attention of Oranga Tamariki, not just being placed into state attention of Oranga Tamariki, not just being placed into state care. just being placed into state care. When just being placed into state care. When a just being placed into state care. When a child just being placed into state care. When a child is just being placed into state care. When a child is brought just being placed into state care. When a child is brought to just being placed into state care. When a child is brought to the When a child is brought to the attention When a child is brought to the attention of When a child is brought to the attention of Oranga When a child is brought to the attention of Oranga Tamariki, When a child is brought to the attention of Oranga Tamariki, it When a child is brought to the attention of Oranga Tamariki, it is attention of Oranga Tamariki, it is their attention of Oranga Tamariki, it is their responsibility attention of Oranga Tamariki, it is their responsibility to attention of Oranga Tamariki, it is their responsibility to intervene attention of Oranga Tamariki, it is their responsibility to intervene as their responsibility to intervene as early their responsibility to intervene as early as their responsibility to intervene as early as possible. their responsibility to intervene as early as possible. Does their responsibility to intervene as early as possible. Does she their responsibility to intervene as early as possible. Does she agree early as possible. Does she agree with early as possible. Does she agree with Zoe early as possible. Does she agree with Zoe Faulk, early as possible. Does she agree with Zoe Faulk, the early as possible. Does she agree with Zoe Faulk, the chief early as possible. Does she agree with Zoe Faulk, the chief executive with Zoe Faulk, the chief executive who with Zoe Faulk, the chief executive who says with Zoe Faulk, the chief executive who says of with Zoe Faulk, the chief executive who says of the with Zoe Faulk, the chief executive who says of the cuts with Zoe Faulk, the chief executive who says of the cuts to with Zoe Faulk, the chief executive who says of the cuts to their who says of the cuts to their services, who says of the cuts to their services, the who says of the cuts to their services, the core who says of the cuts to their services, the core of who says of the cuts to their services, the core of our who says of the cuts to their services, the core of our mahi, who says of the cuts to their services, the core of our mahi, the services, the core of our mahi, the core services, the core of our mahi, the core of services, the core of our mahi, the core of our services, the core of our mahi, the core of our work, services, the core of our mahi, the core of our work, is services, the core of our mahi, the core of our work, is prevention, core of our work, is prevention, preventing core of our work, is prevention, preventing uplift. core of our work, is prevention, preventing uplift. We core of our work, is prevention, preventing uplift. We have core of our work, is prevention, preventing uplift. We have prevented preventing uplift. We have prevented so preventing uplift. We have prevented so many preventing uplift. We have prevented so many uplifts. preventing uplift. We have prevented so many uplifts. Unfortunately preventing uplift. We have prevented so many uplifts. Unfortunately we so many uplifts. Unfortunately we may so many uplifts. Unfortunately we may not so many uplifts. Unfortunately we may not be so many uplifts. Unfortunately we may not be able so many uplifts. Unfortunately we may not be able to so many uplifts. Unfortunately we may not be able to do so many uplifts. Unfortunately we may not be able to do that so many uplifts. Unfortunately we may not be able to do that any may not be able to do that any longer? may not be able to do that any longer? If may not be able to do that any longer? If not, may not be able to do that any longer? If not, why may not be able to do that any longer? If not, why not? may not be able to do that any longer? If not, why not? Mr may not be able to do that any longer? If not, why not? Mr Speaker, longer? If not, why not? Mr Speaker, I longer? If not, why not? Mr Speaker, I can't longer? If not, why not? Mr Speaker, I can't comment longer? If not, why not? Mr Speaker, I can't comment on longer? If not, why not? Mr Speaker, I can't comment on individual I can't comment on individual contracts I can't comment on individual contracts without I can't comment on individual contracts without that I can't comment on individual contracts without that information contracts without that information in contracts without that information in front contracts without that information in front of contracts without that information in front of me contracts without that information in front of me but contracts without that information in front of me but if contracts without that information in front of me but if you contracts without that information in front of me but if you like contracts without that information in front of me but if you like more in front of me but if you like more information, in front of me but if you like more information, please in front of me but if you like more information, please put in front of me but if you like more information, please put that in front of me but if you like more information, please put that in information, please put that in writing. information, please put that in writing. Can information, please put that in writing. Can she information, please put that in writing. Can she reassure information, please put that in writing. Can she reassure New writing. Can she reassure New Zealanders writing. Can she reassure New Zealanders that writing. Can she reassure New Zealanders that there writing. Can she reassure New Zealanders that there will writing. Can she reassure New Zealanders that there will not writing. Can she reassure New Zealanders that there will not be writing. Can she reassure New Zealanders that there will not be an Zealanders that there will not be an increase Zealanders that there will not be an increase in Zealanders that there will not be an increase in Oranga Zealanders that there will not be an increase in Oranga Tamariki Zealanders that there will not be an increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts as increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts as a increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts as a result increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts as a result of increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts as a result of her increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts as a result of her cuts? increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts as a result of her cuts? Mr increase in Oranga Tamariki uplifts as a result of her cuts? Mr Speaker, as a result of her cuts? Mr Speaker, I as a result of her cuts? Mr Speaker, I cannot as a result of her cuts? Mr Speaker, I cannot make as a result of her cuts? Mr Speaker, I cannot make guarantees as a result of her cuts? Mr Speaker, I cannot make guarantees about I cannot make guarantees about anything. I cannot make guarantees about anything. What I cannot make guarantees about anything. What I I cannot make guarantees about anything. What I can I cannot make guarantees about anything. What I can guarantee I cannot make guarantees about anything. What I can guarantee is anything. What I can guarantee is that anything. What I can guarantee is that Oranga anything. What I can guarantee is that Oranga Tamariki anything. What I can guarantee is that Oranga Tamariki will anything. What I can guarantee is that Oranga Tamariki will get anything. What I can guarantee is that Oranga Tamariki will get back that Oranga Tamariki will get back to that Oranga Tamariki will get back to their that Oranga Tamariki will get back to their core that Oranga Tamariki will get back to their core purpose that Oranga Tamariki will get back to their core purpose which that Oranga Tamariki will get back to their core purpose which is that Oranga Tamariki will get back to their core purpose which is the to their core purpose which is the care to their core purpose which is the care and to their core purpose which is the care and protection to their core purpose which is the care and protection of to their core purpose which is the care and protection of young to their core purpose which is the care and protection of young people care and protection of young people in care and protection of young people in their care and protection of young people in their care care and protection of young people in their care and care and protection of young people in their care and children care and protection of young people in their care and children that care and protection of young people in their care and children that come in their care and children that come to in their care and children that come to their in their care and children that come to their attention. in their care and children that come to their attention. If in their care and children that come to their attention. If a in their care and children that come to their attention. If a child in their care and children that come to their attention. If a child is to their attention. If a child is unsafe to their attention. If a child is unsafe and to their attention. If a child is unsafe and needs to their attention. If a child is unsafe and needs care to their attention. If a child is unsafe and needs care and unsafe and needs care and protection, unsafe and needs care and protection, that's unsafe and needs care and protection, that's what unsafe and needs care and protection, that's what will unsafe and needs care and protection, that's what will happen. protection, that's what will happen. Question protection, that's what will happen. Question 9. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister for My question is to the Minister for Children: Minister for Children: What Minister for Children: What recent Minister for Children: What recent announcement What recent announcement has What recent announcement has she What recent announcement has she made has she made regarding has she made regarding key has she made regarding key performance has she made regarding key performance indicators regarding key performance indicators for regarding key performance indicators for Oranga regarding key performance indicators for Oranga Tamariki? Mr Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, this Mr Speaker, this morning, Mr Speaker, this morning, I Mr Speaker, this morning, I wrote Mr Speaker, this morning, I wrote to Mr Speaker, this morning, I wrote to the Mr Speaker, this morning, I wrote to the chief Mr Speaker, this morning, I wrote to the chief executive Mr Speaker, this morning, I wrote to the chief executive of Mr Speaker, this morning, I wrote to the chief executive of Oranga the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki instructing the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki instructing him the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki instructing him to the chief executive of Oranga Tamariki instructing him to report Tamariki instructing him to report to Tamariki instructing him to report to me Tamariki instructing him to report to me every Tamariki instructing him to report to me every three Tamariki instructing him to report to me every three months Tamariki instructing him to report to me every three months on Tamariki instructing him to report to me every three months on key to me every three months on key performance to me every three months on key performance indicators. to me every three months on key performance indicators. These performance indicators. These include performance indicators. These include the performance indicators. These include the frequency performance indicators. These include the frequency of performance indicators. These include the frequency of social include the frequency of social worker include the frequency of social worker visits include the frequency of social worker visits to include the frequency of social worker visits to children include the frequency of social worker visits to children in include the frequency of social worker visits to children in care, worker visits to children in care, the worker visits to children in care, the timelessness worker visits to children in care, the timelessness of worker visits to children in care, the timelessness of responses worker visits to children in care, the timelessness of responses to the timelessness of responses to reports the timelessness of responses to reports of the timelessness of responses to reports of concern, the timelessness of responses to reports of concern, and the timelessness of responses to reports of concern, and whether the timelessness of responses to reports of concern, and whether or reports of concern, and whether or not reports of concern, and whether or not caregivers reports of concern, and whether or not caregivers feel reports of concern, and whether or not caregivers feel supported reports of concern, and whether or not caregivers feel supported by not caregivers feel supported by Oranga not caregivers feel supported by Oranga Tamariki. not caregivers feel supported by Oranga Tamariki. These not caregivers feel supported by Oranga Tamariki. These areas not caregivers feel supported by Oranga Tamariki. These areas are Oranga Tamariki. These areas are going Oranga Tamariki. These areas are going to Oranga Tamariki. These areas are going to make Oranga Tamariki. These areas are going to make the Oranga Tamariki. These areas are going to make the biggest Oranga Tamariki. These areas are going to make the biggest difference going to make the biggest difference to going to make the biggest difference to the going to make the biggest difference to the safety going to make the biggest difference to the safety and going to make the biggest difference to the safety and wellbeing going to make the biggest difference to the safety and wellbeing of to the safety and wellbeing of children to the safety and wellbeing of children and to the safety and wellbeing of children and young to the safety and wellbeing of children and young people to the safety and wellbeing of children and young people in to the safety and wellbeing of children and young people in care. children and young people in care. Too children and young people in care. Too many children and young people in care. Too many children children and young people in care. Too many children in children and young people in care. Too many children in care children and young people in care. Too many children in care of children and young people in care. Too many children in care of their Too many children in care of their family Too many children in care of their family or Too many children in care of their family or their Too many children in care of their family or their caregivers Too many children in care of their family or their caregivers die Too many children in care of their family or their caregivers die or family or their caregivers die or are family or their caregivers die or are abused family or their caregivers die or are abused and family or their caregivers die or are abused and neglected family or their caregivers die or are abused and neglected every family or their caregivers die or are abused and neglected every year are abused and neglected every year in are abused and neglected every year in this are abused and neglected every year in this country. are abused and neglected every year in this country. It are abused and neglected every year in this country. It is are abused and neglected every year in this country. It is a are abused and neglected every year in this country. It is a national in this country. It is a national displace in this country. It is a national displace and in this country. It is a national displace and I'm in this country. It is a national displace and I'm not in this country. It is a national displace and I'm not willing in this country. It is a national displace and I'm not willing to displace and I'm not willing to accept displace and I'm not willing to accept it. displace and I'm not willing to accept it. As displace and I'm not willing to accept it. As Minister displace and I'm not willing to accept it. As Minister for displace and I'm not willing to accept it. As Minister for Children, accept it. As Minister for Children, it accept it. As Minister for Children, it is accept it. As Minister for Children, it is my accept it. As Minister for Children, it is my expectation accept it. As Minister for Children, it is my expectation that accept it. As Minister for Children, it is my expectation that Oranga it is my expectation that Oranga Tamariki it is my expectation that Oranga Tamariki is it is my expectation that Oranga Tamariki is relentlessly it is my expectation that Oranga Tamariki is relentlessly focused it is my expectation that Oranga Tamariki is relentlessly focused on Tamariki is relentlessly focused on its Tamariki is relentlessly focused on its core Tamariki is relentlessly focused on its core purpose Tamariki is relentlessly focused on its core purpose of Tamariki is relentlessly focused on its core purpose of ensuring Tamariki is relentlessly focused on its core purpose of ensuring the its core purpose of ensuring the safety its core purpose of ensuring the safety and its core purpose of ensuring the safety and wellbeing its core purpose of ensuring the safety and wellbeing of its core purpose of ensuring the safety and wellbeing of children its core purpose of ensuring the safety and wellbeing of children in safety and wellbeing of children in their safety and wellbeing of children in their care. safety and wellbeing of children in their care. Supplementary. safety and wellbeing of children in their care. Supplementary. Why safety and wellbeing of children in their care. Supplementary. Why does their care. Supplementary. Why does the their care. Supplementary. Why does the Minister their care. Supplementary. Why does the Minister think their care. Supplementary. Why does the Minister think it's their care. Supplementary. Why does the Minister think it's necessary their care. Supplementary. Why does the Minister think it's necessary to the Minister think it's necessary to have the Minister think it's necessary to have quarterly the Minister think it's necessary to have quarterly public the Minister think it's necessary to have quarterly public reporting the Minister think it's necessary to have quarterly public reporting on have quarterly public reporting on these have quarterly public reporting on these performance have quarterly public reporting on these performance measures? have quarterly public reporting on these performance measures? Mr these performance measures? Mr Speaker, these performance measures? Mr Speaker, Oranga these performance measures? Mr Speaker, Oranga Tamariki these performance measures? Mr Speaker, Oranga Tamariki has Speaker, Oranga Tamariki has oversight Speaker, Oranga Tamariki has oversight from Speaker, Oranga Tamariki has oversight from the Speaker, Oranga Tamariki has oversight from the likes Speaker, Oranga Tamariki has oversight from the likes of Speaker, Oranga Tamariki has oversight from the likes of the oversight from the likes of the independent oversight from the likes of the independent children's oversight from the likes of the independent children's monitor, independent children's monitor, however, independent children's monitor, however, these independent children's monitor, however, these compliance independent children's monitor, however, these compliance reports however, these compliance reports are however, these compliance reports are only however, these compliance reports are only provided however, these compliance reports are only provided to however, these compliance reports are only provided to me however, these compliance reports are only provided to me once however, these compliance reports are only provided to me once a however, these compliance reports are only provided to me once a year. are only provided to me once a year. Quarterly are only provided to me once a year. Quarterly updates are only provided to me once a year. Quarterly updates in are only provided to me once a year. Quarterly updates in areas are only provided to me once a year. Quarterly updates in areas that are only provided to me once a year. Quarterly updates in areas that are Quarterly updates in areas that are most Quarterly updates in areas that are most vital Quarterly updates in areas that are most vital to Quarterly updates in areas that are most vital to ensuring Quarterly updates in areas that are most vital to ensuring the Quarterly updates in areas that are most vital to ensuring the safety Quarterly updates in areas that are most vital to ensuring the safety of most vital to ensuring the safety of children most vital to ensuring the safety of children will most vital to ensuring the safety of children will allow most vital to ensuring the safety of children will allow me most vital to ensuring the safety of children will allow me and most vital to ensuring the safety of children will allow me and the children will allow me and the public children will allow me and the public to children will allow me and the public to identify children will allow me and the public to identify earlier children will allow me and the public to identify earlier any children will allow me and the public to identify earlier any areas public to identify earlier any areas where public to identify earlier any areas where Oranga public to identify earlier any areas where Oranga Tamariki public to identify earlier any areas where Oranga Tamariki is public to identify earlier any areas where Oranga Tamariki is not public to identify earlier any areas where Oranga Tamariki is not meeting where Oranga Tamariki is not meeting expectations. where Oranga Tamariki is not meeting expectations. This where Oranga Tamariki is not meeting expectations. This will where Oranga Tamariki is not meeting expectations. This will mean where Oranga Tamariki is not meeting expectations. This will mean that where Oranga Tamariki is not meeting expectations. This will mean that we expectations. This will mean that we can expectations. This will mean that we can address expectations. This will mean that we can address any expectations. This will mean that we can address any issues expectations. This will mean that we can address any issues as expectations. This will mean that we can address any issues as they expectations. This will mean that we can address any issues as they rise can address any issues as they rise - can address any issues as they rise - arise can address any issues as they rise - arise rather can address any issues as they rise - arise rather than can address any issues as they rise - arise rather than waiting can address any issues as they rise - arise rather than waiting for can address any issues as they rise - arise rather than waiting for a - arise rather than waiting for a yearly - arise rather than waiting for a yearly report - arise rather than waiting for a yearly report to - arise rather than waiting for a yearly report to find - arise rather than waiting for a yearly report to find out - arise rather than waiting for a yearly report to find out what - arise rather than waiting for a yearly report to find out what is yearly report to find out what is going yearly report to find out what is going on yearly report to find out what is going on and yearly report to find out what is going on and needs yearly report to find out what is going on and needs to yearly report to find out what is going on and needs to be yearly report to find out what is going on and needs to be fixed. going on and needs to be fixed. Providing going on and needs to be fixed. Providing greater going on and needs to be fixed. Providing greater transparency going on and needs to be fixed. Providing greater transparency and Providing greater transparency and accountability Providing greater transparency and accountability will Providing greater transparency and accountability will give Providing greater transparency and accountability will give Oranga accountability will give Oranga Tamariki accountability will give Oranga Tamariki the accountability will give Oranga Tamariki the focus accountability will give Oranga Tamariki the focus it accountability will give Oranga Tamariki the focus it needs accountability will give Oranga Tamariki the focus it needs to Tamariki the focus it needs to assure Tamariki the focus it needs to assure it's Tamariki the focus it needs to assure it's delivering Tamariki the focus it needs to assure it's delivering on Tamariki the focus it needs to assure it's delivering on its Tamariki the focus it needs to assure it's delivering on its core assure it's delivering on its core purpose assure it's delivering on its core purpose which assure it's delivering on its core purpose which is assure it's delivering on its core purpose which is keeping assure it's delivering on its core purpose which is keeping children purpose which is keeping children and purpose which is keeping children and young purpose which is keeping children and young people purpose which is keeping children and young people safe purpose which is keeping children and young people safe in purpose which is keeping children and young people safe in their purpose which is keeping children and young people safe in their care. and young people safe in their care. Supplementary. and young people safe in their care. Supplementary. Why and young people safe in their care. Supplementary. Why is and young people safe in their care. Supplementary. Why is this Supplementary. Why is this accountability Supplementary. Why is this accountability and Supplementary. Why is this accountability and transparency Supplementary. Why is this accountability and transparency so accountability and transparency so important? accountability and transparency so important? Mr accountability and transparency so important? Mr Speaker, accountability and transparency so important? Mr Speaker, clearly important? Mr Speaker, clearly things important? Mr Speaker, clearly things need important? Mr Speaker, clearly things need to important? Mr Speaker, clearly things need to change. important? Mr Speaker, clearly things need to change. When important? Mr Speaker, clearly things need to change. When a important? Mr Speaker, clearly things need to change. When a child things need to change. When a child is things need to change. When a child is killed things need to change. When a child is killed every things need to change. When a child is killed every five things need to change. When a child is killed every five weeks things need to change. When a child is killed every five weeks in things need to change. When a child is killed every five weeks in this is killed every five weeks in this country, is killed every five weeks in this country, and is killed every five weeks in this country, and so is killed every five weeks in this country, and so many is killed every five weeks in this country, and so many more is killed every five weeks in this country, and so many more are is killed every five weeks in this country, and so many more are abused country, and so many more are abused and country, and so many more are abused and neglected country, and so many more are abused and neglected by country, and so many more are abused and neglected by those country, and so many more are abused and neglected by those who country, and so many more are abused and neglected by those who are country, and so many more are abused and neglected by those who are meant and neglected by those who are meant to and neglected by those who are meant to care and neglected by those who are meant to care for and neglected by those who are meant to care for them, and neglected by those who are meant to care for them, then and neglected by those who are meant to care for them, then a and neglected by those who are meant to care for them, then a new to care for them, then a new approach to care for them, then a new approach is to care for them, then a new approach is desperately to care for them, then a new approach is desperately needed. to care for them, then a new approach is desperately needed. By approach is desperately needed. By making approach is desperately needed. By making Oranga approach is desperately needed. By making Oranga Tamariki approach is desperately needed. By making Oranga Tamariki report approach is desperately needed. By making Oranga Tamariki report every making Oranga Tamariki report every three making Oranga Tamariki report every three months, making Oranga Tamariki report every three months, and making Oranga Tamariki report every three months, and making making Oranga Tamariki report every three months, and making these three months, and making these reports three months, and making these reports public, three months, and making these reports public, it three months, and making these reports public, it will three months, and making these reports public, it will give three months, and making these reports public, it will give Oranga reports public, it will give Oranga Tamariki reports public, it will give Oranga Tamariki the reports public, it will give Oranga Tamariki the focus reports public, it will give Oranga Tamariki the focus it reports public, it will give Oranga Tamariki the focus it needs reports public, it will give Oranga Tamariki the focus it needs to Tamariki the focus it needs to ensure Tamariki the focus it needs to ensure that Tamariki the focus it needs to ensure that it Tamariki the focus it needs to ensure that it is Tamariki the focus it needs to ensure that it is delivering Tamariki the focus it needs to ensure that it is delivering on Tamariki the focus it needs to ensure that it is delivering on its ensure that it is delivering on its core ensure that it is delivering on its core purpose, ensure that it is delivering on its core purpose, keeping ensure that it is delivering on its core purpose, keeping children ensure that it is delivering on its core purpose, keeping children and core purpose, keeping children and young core purpose, keeping children and young people core purpose, keeping children and young people safe. core purpose, keeping children and young people safe. <INTERRUPTION> young people safe. <INTERRUPTION> Supplementary. young people safe. <INTERRUPTION> Supplementary. Why young people safe. <INTERRUPTION> Supplementary. Why is young people safe. <INTERRUPTION> Supplementary. Why is supporting Supplementary. Why is supporting caregivers Supplementary. Why is supporting caregivers one Supplementary. Why is supporting caregivers one of Supplementary. Why is supporting caregivers one of the Supplementary. Why is supporting caregivers one of the Minister's caregivers one of the Minister's priorities? caregivers one of the Minister's priorities? Mr caregivers one of the Minister's priorities? Mr Speaker, caregivers one of the Minister's priorities? Mr Speaker, the caregivers one of the Minister's priorities? Mr Speaker, the reality priorities? Mr Speaker, the reality is priorities? Mr Speaker, the reality is that priorities? Mr Speaker, the reality is that many priorities? Mr Speaker, the reality is that many children priorities? Mr Speaker, the reality is that many children and priorities? Mr Speaker, the reality is that many children and young is that many children and young people is that many children and young people are is that many children and young people are not is that many children and young people are not able is that many children and young people are not able to is that many children and young people are not able to live is that many children and young people are not able to live with people are not able to live with their people are not able to live with their immediate people are not able to live with their immediate family people are not able to live with their immediate family for people are not able to live with their immediate family for whatever their immediate family for whatever reason, their immediate family for whatever reason, their their immediate family for whatever reason, their home their immediate family for whatever reason, their home is their immediate family for whatever reason, their home is not their immediate family for whatever reason, their home is not a their immediate family for whatever reason, their home is not a safe, reason, their home is not a safe, loving reason, their home is not a safe, loving environment reason, their home is not a safe, loving environment for reason, their home is not a safe, loving environment for them. reason, their home is not a safe, loving environment for them. In loving environment for them. In these loving environment for them. In these circumstances, loving environment for them. In these circumstances, caregivers these circumstances, caregivers including these circumstances, caregivers including wider these circumstances, caregivers including wider family these circumstances, caregivers including wider family orphano these circumstances, caregivers including wider family orphano play including wider family orphano play an including wider family orphano play an essential including wider family orphano play an essential role. including wider family orphano play an essential role. They including wider family orphano play an essential role. They open including wider family orphano play an essential role. They open up an essential role. They open up their an essential role. They open up their hearts an essential role. They open up their hearts and an essential role. They open up their hearts and their an essential role. They open up their hearts and their homes an essential role. They open up their hearts and their homes to an essential role. They open up their hearts and their homes to look their hearts and their homes to look after their hearts and their homes to look after our their hearts and their homes to look after our most their hearts and their homes to look after our most vulnerable. their hearts and their homes to look after our most vulnerable. However, after our most vulnerable. However, I after our most vulnerable. However, I have after our most vulnerable. However, I have heard after our most vulnerable. However, I have heard too after our most vulnerable. However, I have heard too many after our most vulnerable. However, I have heard too many accounts after our most vulnerable. However, I have heard too many accounts of I have heard too many accounts of caregivers I have heard too many accounts of caregivers who I have heard too many accounts of caregivers who say I have heard too many accounts of caregivers who say they I have heard too many accounts of caregivers who say they do I have heard too many accounts of caregivers who say they do not I have heard too many accounts of caregivers who say they do not feel caregivers who say they do not feel supported caregivers who say they do not feel supported by caregivers who say they do not feel supported by Oranga caregivers who say they do not feel supported by Oranga Tamariki. caregivers who say they do not feel supported by Oranga Tamariki. It caregivers who say they do not feel supported by Oranga Tamariki. It is supported by Oranga Tamariki. It is so supported by Oranga Tamariki. It is so important supported by Oranga Tamariki. It is so important that supported by Oranga Tamariki. It is so important that we supported by Oranga Tamariki. It is so important that we have supported by Oranga Tamariki. It is so important that we have a supported by Oranga Tamariki. It is so important that we have a skilled so important that we have a skilled and so important that we have a skilled and experienced so important that we have a skilled and experienced caregivers so important that we have a skilled and experienced caregivers available and experienced caregivers available for and experienced caregivers available for situations and experienced caregivers available for situations where and experienced caregivers available for situations where a and experienced caregivers available for situations where a child and experienced caregivers available for situations where a child is and experienced caregivers available for situations where a child is not for situations where a child is not able for situations where a child is not able to for situations where a child is not able to stay for situations where a child is not able to stay in for situations where a child is not able to stay in their for situations where a child is not able to stay in their family for situations where a child is not able to stay in their family home. able to stay in their family home. Question able to stay in their family home. Question 10, able to stay in their family home. Question 10, the able to stay in their family home. Question 10, the Hon able to stay in their family home. Question 10, the Hon Dr able to stay in their family home. Question 10, the Hon Dr Deborah Question 10, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell. Question 10, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell. Just Question 10, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell. Just wait Question 10, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell. Just wait for Question 10, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell. Just wait for a Question 10, the Hon Dr Deborah Russell. Just wait for a moment Russell. Just wait for a moment while Russell. Just wait for a moment while the Russell. Just wait for a moment while the House Russell. Just wait for a moment while the House sort Russell. Just wait for a moment while the House sort of Russell. Just wait for a moment while the House sort of calms while the House sort of calms itself. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister for My question is to the Minister for Tertiary My question is to the Minister for Tertiary Education My question is to the Minister for Tertiary Education and My question is to the Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills: for Tertiary Education and Skills: Does for Tertiary Education and Skills: Does she for Tertiary Education and Skills: Does she stand for Tertiary Education and Skills: Does she stand by for Tertiary Education and Skills: Does she stand by her for Tertiary Education and Skills: Does she stand by her statement Does she stand by her statement that Does she stand by her statement that Te Does she stand by her statement that Te Pukenga Does she stand by her statement that Te Pukenga is that Te Pukenga is a that Te Pukenga is a "financial that Te Pukenga is a "financial mess, that Te Pukenga is a "financial mess, drowning that Te Pukenga is a "financial mess, drowning in that Te Pukenga is a "financial mess, drowning in debt a "financial mess, drowning in debt of a "financial mess, drowning in debt of over a "financial mess, drowning in debt of over $250 a "financial mess, drowning in debt of over $250 million"; a "financial mess, drowning in debt of over $250 million"; if a "financial mess, drowning in debt of over $250 million"; if so, a "financial mess, drowning in debt of over $250 million"; if so, why? Mr Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, yes. Mr Speaker, yes. Te Mr Speaker, yes. Te Pukenga Mr Speaker, yes. Te Pukenga has Mr Speaker, yes. Te Pukenga has $8.426 Mr Speaker, yes. Te Pukenga has $8.426 million Mr Speaker, yes. Te Pukenga has $8.426 million of Mr Speaker, yes. Te Pukenga has $8.426 million of commercial Mr Speaker, yes. Te Pukenga has $8.426 million of commercial debt, $8.426 million of commercial debt, $35.391 $8.426 million of commercial debt, $35.391 million $8.426 million of commercial debt, $35.391 million of $8.426 million of commercial debt, $35.391 million of Crown $8.426 million of commercial debt, $35.391 million of Crown debt, $8.426 million of commercial debt, $35.391 million of Crown debt, and $35.391 million of Crown debt, and $207.311 $35.391 million of Crown debt, and $207.311 million $35.391 million of Crown debt, and $207.311 million of $35.391 million of Crown debt, and $207.311 million of intercompany $207.311 million of intercompany debt, $207.311 million of intercompany debt, amounting $207.311 million of intercompany debt, amounting to $207.311 million of intercompany debt, amounting to a $207.311 million of intercompany debt, amounting to a total $207.311 million of intercompany debt, amounting to a total debt $207.311 million of intercompany debt, amounting to a total debt of debt, amounting to a total debt of $251.128 debt, amounting to a total debt of $251.128 million. debt, amounting to a total debt of $251.128 million. Why debt, amounting to a total debt of $251.128 million. Why is debt, amounting to a total debt of $251.128 million. Why is the $251.128 million. Why is the Minister $251.128 million. Why is the Minister including $251.128 million. Why is the Minister including to $251.128 million. Why is the Minister including to the $251.128 million. Why is the Minister including to the 150.6 Minister including to the 150.6 million Minister including to the 150.6 million of Minister including to the 150.6 million of internal Minister including to the 150.6 million of internal debt, million of internal debt, intercompany million of internal debt, intercompany borrowering, million of internal debt, intercompany borrowering, in million of internal debt, intercompany borrowering, in that intercompany borrowering, in that total intercompany borrowering, in that total debt intercompany borrowering, in that total debt figure? intercompany borrowering, in that total debt figure? Mr intercompany borrowering, in that total debt figure? Mr Speaker, intercompany borrowering, in that total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if intercompany borrowering, in that total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if I total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if I can total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if I can just total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if I can just help total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if I can just help the total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if I can just help the member total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if I can just help the member on total debt figure? Mr Speaker, if I can just help the member on that. can just help the member on that. It's can just help the member on that. It's $207.311 can just help the member on that. It's $207.311 million can just help the member on that. It's $207.311 million of It's $207.311 million of intercompany It's $207.311 million of intercompany debt. It's $207.311 million of intercompany debt. Mr It's $207.311 million of intercompany debt. Mr Speaker, It's $207.311 million of intercompany debt. Mr Speaker, when intercompany debt. Mr Speaker, when Te intercompany debt. Mr Speaker, when Te Pukenga intercompany debt. Mr Speaker, when Te Pukenga was intercompany debt. Mr Speaker, when Te Pukenga was set intercompany debt. Mr Speaker, when Te Pukenga was set up, intercompany debt. Mr Speaker, when Te Pukenga was set up, different Te Pukenga was set up, different ITOs Te Pukenga was set up, different ITOs and Te Pukenga was set up, different ITOs and polytechnics Te Pukenga was set up, different ITOs and polytechnics came Te Pukenga was set up, different ITOs and polytechnics came in Te Pukenga was set up, different ITOs and polytechnics came in with ITOs and polytechnics came in with different ITOs and polytechnics came in with different financial ITOs and polytechnics came in with different financial positions, ITOs and polytechnics came in with different financial positions, some different financial positions, some came different financial positions, some came in different financial positions, some came in with different financial positions, some came in with reserves, different financial positions, some came in with reserves, some different financial positions, some came in with reserves, some came different financial positions, some came in with reserves, some came in came in with reserves, some came in with came in with reserves, some came in with debt. came in with reserves, some came in with debt. Those came in with reserves, some came in with debt. Those with came in with reserves, some came in with debt. Those with reserves came in with reserves, some came in with debt. Those with reserves have with debt. Those with reserves have had with debt. Those with reserves have had to with debt. Those with reserves have had to allow with debt. Those with reserves have had to allow their with debt. Those with reserves have had to allow their reserves with debt. Those with reserves have had to allow their reserves to with debt. Those with reserves have had to allow their reserves to go with debt. Those with reserves have had to allow their reserves to go to had to allow their reserves to go to offset had to allow their reserves to go to offset commercial had to allow their reserves to go to offset commercial debt had to allow their reserves to go to offset commercial debt that had to allow their reserves to go to offset commercial debt that was offset commercial debt that was being offset commercial debt that was being held offset commercial debt that was being held by offset commercial debt that was being held by the offset commercial debt that was being held by the other being held by the other institutions. being held by the other institutions. That being held by the other institutions. That is being held by the other institutions. That is real being held by the other institutions. That is real debt. institutions. That is real debt. (INTERJECTIONS) (INTERJECTIONS) Why (INTERJECTIONS) Why does (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she claim (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she claim that (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she claim that Te (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she claim that Te Pukenga Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is awash Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is awash and Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is awash and drowning Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is awash and drowning in Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is awash and drowning in debt Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is awash and drowning in debt of is awash and drowning in debt of over is awash and drowning in debt of over $250 is awash and drowning in debt of over $250 million is awash and drowning in debt of over $250 million when is awash and drowning in debt of over $250 million when at is awash and drowning in debt of over $250 million when at the is awash and drowning in debt of over $250 million when at the 30 over $250 million when at the 30 June over $250 million when at the 30 June 2024, over $250 million when at the 30 June 2024, total over $250 million when at the 30 June 2024, total external June 2024, total external borrowerings June 2024, total external borrowerings are June 2024, total external borrowerings are only June 2024, total external borrowerings are only 45.3 June 2024, total external borrowerings are only 45.3 million? borrowerings are only 45.3 million? Mr borrowerings are only 45.3 million? Mr Speaker, borrowerings are only 45.3 million? Mr Speaker, as borrowerings are only 45.3 million? Mr Speaker, as I borrowerings are only 45.3 million? Mr Speaker, as I have borrowerings are only 45.3 million? Mr Speaker, as I have outlined, Mr Speaker, as I have outlined, there Mr Speaker, as I have outlined, there is Mr Speaker, as I have outlined, there is 207.31 Mr Speaker, as I have outlined, there is 207.31 $1 Mr Speaker, as I have outlined, there is 207.31 $1 million Mr Speaker, as I have outlined, there is 207.31 $1 million of there is 207.31 $1 million of intercompany there is 207.31 $1 million of intercompany debt there is 207.31 $1 million of intercompany debt which there is 207.31 $1 million of intercompany debt which has there is 207.31 $1 million of intercompany debt which has been intercompany debt which has been taken intercompany debt which has been taken from intercompany debt which has been taken from reserves intercompany debt which has been taken from reserves of intercompany debt which has been taken from reserves of some taken from reserves of some institutions, taken from reserves of some institutions, and taken from reserves of some institutions, and applied taken from reserves of some institutions, and applied against institutions, and applied against the institutions, and applied against the debt institutions, and applied against the debt that institutions, and applied against the debt that other institutions, and applied against the debt that other institutions the debt that other institutions have. the debt that other institutions have. <INTERRUPTION> have. <INTERRUPTION> As... have. <INTERRUPTION> As... As have. <INTERRUPTION> As... As Te have. <INTERRUPTION> As... As Te Pukenga have. <INTERRUPTION> As... As Te Pukenga is As... As Te Pukenga is disestablished, As... As Te Pukenga is disestablished, that As... As Te Pukenga is disestablished, that debt As... As Te Pukenga is disestablished, that debt will As... As Te Pukenga is disestablished, that debt will have disestablished, that debt will have to disestablished, that debt will have to be disestablished, that debt will have to be dealt disestablished, that debt will have to be dealt with. disestablished, that debt will have to be dealt with. It disestablished, that debt will have to be dealt with. It is disestablished, that debt will have to be dealt with. It is real. to be dealt with. It is real. (INTERJECTIONS) (INTERJECTIONS) Why (INTERJECTIONS) Why does (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she claim (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she claim that (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she claim that Te (INTERJECTIONS) Why does she claim that Te Pukenga Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is $250 Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is $250 million Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is $250 million in Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is $250 million in debt Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is $250 million in debt when Why does she claim that Te Pukenga is $250 million in debt when of is $250 million in debt when of those is $250 million in debt when of those total is $250 million in debt when of those total external is $250 million in debt when of those total external borrowings is $250 million in debt when of those total external borrowings at those total external borrowings at 30 those total external borrowings at 30 June those total external borrowings at 30 June 2024 those total external borrowings at 30 June 2024 of those total external borrowings at 30 June 2024 of 45.3 those total external borrowings at 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, those total external borrowings at 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, 44.6 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, 44.6 million 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, 44.6 million is 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, 44.6 million is with 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, 44.6 million is with the 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, 44.6 million is with the Crown 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, 44.6 million is with the Crown and 30 June 2024 of 45.3 million, 44.6 million is with the Crown and is million is with the Crown and is non-interest-bearing million is with the Crown and is non-interest-bearing and million is with the Crown and is non-interest-bearing and only million is with the Crown and is non-interest-bearing and only a million is with the Crown and is non-interest-bearing and only a tiny non-interest-bearing and only a tiny portion non-interest-bearing and only a tiny portion is non-interest-bearing and only a tiny portion is external non-interest-bearing and only a tiny portion is external to non-interest-bearing and only a tiny portion is external to the non-interest-bearing and only a tiny portion is external to the Crown? portion is external to the Crown? <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> Mr <INTERRUPTION> Mr Speaker, <INTERRUPTION> Mr Speaker, debt <INTERRUPTION> Mr Speaker, debt to <INTERRUPTION> Mr Speaker, debt to the <INTERRUPTION> Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown <INTERRUPTION> Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown is Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. And Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. And so... Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. And so... <INTERRUPTION> debt. And so... <INTERRUPTION> debt. And so... <INTERRUPTION> ..we debt. And so... <INTERRUPTION> ..we have debt. And so... <INTERRUPTION> ..we have significant debt. And so... <INTERRUPTION> ..we have significant debt... debt. And so... <INTERRUPTION> ..we have significant debt... Hang ..we have significant debt... Hang on, ..we have significant debt... Hang on, just ..we have significant debt... Hang on, just a ..we have significant debt... Hang on, just a minute. ..we have significant debt... Hang on, just a minute. <INTERRUPTION> on, just a minute. <INTERRUPTION> Excuse on, just a minute. <INTERRUPTION> Excuse me. on, just a minute. <INTERRUPTION> Excuse me. We're on, just a minute. <INTERRUPTION> Excuse me. We're going on, just a minute. <INTERRUPTION> Excuse me. We're going to on, just a minute. <INTERRUPTION> Excuse me. We're going to hear on, just a minute. <INTERRUPTION> Excuse me. We're going to hear the Excuse me. We're going to hear the answer Excuse me. We're going to hear the answer in Excuse me. We're going to hear the answer in silence. Excuse me. We're going to hear the answer in silence. Thank Excuse me. We're going to hear the answer in silence. Thank you. Excuse me. We're going to hear the answer in silence. Thank you. Mr answer in silence. Thank you. Mr Speaker, answer in silence. Thank you. Mr Speaker, debt answer in silence. Thank you. Mr Speaker, debt to answer in silence. Thank you. Mr Speaker, debt to the answer in silence. Thank you. Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown answer in silence. Thank you. Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown is answer in silence. Thank you. Mr Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. Just Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. Just as Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. Just as intercompany Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. Just as intercompany debt Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. Just as intercompany debt is Speaker, debt to the Crown is debt. Just as intercompany debt is real Just as intercompany debt is real debt. Just as intercompany debt is real debt. Te Just as intercompany debt is real debt. Te Pukenga Just as intercompany debt is real debt. Te Pukenga has Just as intercompany debt is real debt. Te Pukenga has over Just as intercompany debt is real debt. Te Pukenga has over $251 debt. Te Pukenga has over $251 million debt. Te Pukenga has over $251 million worth debt. Te Pukenga has over $251 million worth of debt. Te Pukenga has over $251 million worth of debt. debt. Te Pukenga has over $251 million worth of debt. Why debt. Te Pukenga has over $251 million worth of debt. Why did debt. Te Pukenga has over $251 million worth of debt. Why did she million worth of debt. Why did she tell million worth of debt. Why did she tell Radio million worth of debt. Why did she tell Radio New million worth of debt. Why did she tell Radio New Zealand million worth of debt. Why did she tell Radio New Zealand this million worth of debt. Why did she tell Radio New Zealand this week tell Radio New Zealand this week that tell Radio New Zealand this week that Te tell Radio New Zealand this week that Te Pukenga tell Radio New Zealand this week that Te Pukenga was tell Radio New Zealand this week that Te Pukenga was running tell Radio New Zealand this week that Te Pukenga was running a tell Radio New Zealand this week that Te Pukenga was running a $77 that Te Pukenga was running a $77 million that Te Pukenga was running a $77 million deficit that Te Pukenga was running a $77 million deficit when that Te Pukenga was running a $77 million deficit when she that Te Pukenga was running a $77 million deficit when she told that Te Pukenga was running a $77 million deficit when she told the million deficit when she told the House million deficit when she told the House just million deficit when she told the House just yesterday million deficit when she told the House just yesterday that million deficit when she told the House just yesterday that it's million deficit when she told the House just yesterday that it's now House just yesterday that it's now forecasting House just yesterday that it's now forecasting a House just yesterday that it's now forecasting a surplus House just yesterday that it's now forecasting a surplus of House just yesterday that it's now forecasting a surplus of 28.5 forecasting a surplus of 28.5 million? forecasting a surplus of 28.5 million? Mr forecasting a surplus of 28.5 million? Mr Speaker, forecasting a surplus of 28.5 million? Mr Speaker, that's forecasting a surplus of 28.5 million? Mr Speaker, that's the million? Mr Speaker, that's the half-year million? Mr Speaker, that's the half-year surplus. million? Mr Speaker, that's the half-year surplus. So million? Mr Speaker, that's the half-year surplus. So when million? Mr Speaker, that's the half-year surplus. So when you million? Mr Speaker, that's the half-year surplus. So when you run million? Mr Speaker, that's the half-year surplus. So when you run a half-year surplus. So when you run a Polytechnic half-year surplus. So when you run a Polytechnic or half-year surplus. So when you run a Polytechnic or an half-year surplus. So when you run a Polytechnic or an ITO, half-year surplus. So when you run a Polytechnic or an ITO, your half-year surplus. So when you run a Polytechnic or an ITO, your income Polytechnic or an ITO, your income comes Polytechnic or an ITO, your income comes early. Polytechnic or an ITO, your income comes early. Your Polytechnic or an ITO, your income comes early. Your income Polytechnic or an ITO, your income comes early. Your income comes Polytechnic or an ITO, your income comes early. Your income comes in comes early. Your income comes in the comes early. Your income comes in the first comes early. Your income comes in the first half comes early. Your income comes in the first half of comes early. Your income comes in the first half of the comes early. Your income comes in the first half of the year. comes early. Your income comes in the first half of the year. Your the first half of the year. Your expenditure the first half of the year. Your expenditure goes the first half of the year. Your expenditure goes throughout the first half of the year. Your expenditure goes throughout the expenditure goes throughout the year. expenditure goes throughout the year. It expenditure goes throughout the year. It will expenditure goes throughout the year. It will bounce expenditure goes throughout the year. It will bounce around expenditure goes throughout the year. It will bounce around a expenditure goes throughout the year. It will bounce around a little year. It will bounce around a little bit, year. It will bounce around a little bit, but year. It will bounce around a little bit, but that year. It will bounce around a little bit, but that 28 year. It will bounce around a little bit, but that 28 million year. It will bounce around a little bit, but that 28 million was year. It will bounce around a little bit, but that 28 million was there bit, but that 28 million was there half-year bit, but that 28 million was there half-year to bit, but that 28 million was there half-year to date bit, but that 28 million was there half-year to date surplus. half-year to date surplus. Supplementary, half-year to date surplus. Supplementary, the half-year to date surplus. Supplementary, the Hon half-year to date surplus. Supplementary, the Hon Simeon half-year to date surplus. Supplementary, the Hon Simeon Brown. Supplementary, the Hon Simeon Brown. Will Supplementary, the Hon Simeon Brown. Will the Supplementary, the Hon Simeon Brown. Will the Government's Supplementary, the Hon Simeon Brown. Will the Government's reforms Supplementary, the Hon Simeon Brown. Will the Government's reforms for Supplementary, the Hon Simeon Brown. Will the Government's reforms for Te Will the Government's reforms for Te Pukenga Will the Government's reforms for Te Pukenga include Will the Government's reforms for Te Pukenga include improved Will the Government's reforms for Te Pukenga include improved financial Pukenga include improved financial literacy? Pukenga include improved financial literacy? <INTERRUPTION> literacy? <INTERRUPTION> That's literacy? <INTERRUPTION> That's enough. literacy? <INTERRUPTION> That's enough. That literacy? <INTERRUPTION> That's enough. That is literacy? <INTERRUPTION> That's enough. That is enough. literacy? <INTERRUPTION> That's enough. That is enough. The That's enough. That is enough. The Hon That's enough. That is enough. The Hon Deborah That's enough. That is enough. The Hon Deborah Russell. That's enough. That is enough. The Hon Deborah Russell. Just That's enough. That is enough. The Hon Deborah Russell. Just wait That's enough. That is enough. The Hon Deborah Russell. Just wait for Hon Deborah Russell. Just wait for everyone Hon Deborah Russell. Just wait for everyone to Hon Deborah Russell. Just wait for everyone to settle. Hon Deborah Russell. Just wait for everyone to settle. You Hon Deborah Russell. Just wait for everyone to settle. You can Hon Deborah Russell. Just wait for everyone to settle. You can start everyone to settle. You can start the everyone to settle. You can start the question everyone to settle. You can start the question again, everyone to settle. You can start the question again, please. everyone to settle. You can start the question again, please. Has everyone to settle. You can start the question again, please. Has the the question again, please. Has the Minister the question again, please. Has the Minister been the question again, please. Has the Minister been taking the question again, please. Has the Minister been taking lessons the question again, please. Has the Minister been taking lessons in Minister been taking lessons in mathematics Minister been taking lessons in mathematics from Minister been taking lessons in mathematics from the Minister been taking lessons in mathematics from the Minister Minister been taking lessons in mathematics from the Minister of mathematics from the Minister of Finance mathematics from the Minister of Finance who mathematics from the Minister of Finance who seems mathematics from the Minister of Finance who seems to mathematics from the Minister of Finance who seems to think mathematics from the Minister of Finance who seems to think that mathematics from the Minister of Finance who seems to think that $12 Finance who seems to think that $12 billion Finance who seems to think that $12 billion of Finance who seems to think that $12 billion of extra Finance who seems to think that $12 billion of extra borrowing Finance who seems to think that $12 billion of extra borrowing isn't billion of extra borrowing isn't going billion of extra borrowing isn't going to billion of extra borrowing isn't going to tax billion of extra borrowing isn't going to tax cuts? billion of extra borrowing isn't going to tax cuts? That billion of extra borrowing isn't going to tax cuts? That is billion of extra borrowing isn't going to tax cuts? That is - billion of extra borrowing isn't going to tax cuts? That is - that billion of extra borrowing isn't going to tax cuts? That is - that is going to tax cuts? That is - that is - going to tax cuts? That is - that is - it's going to tax cuts? That is - that is - it's not going to tax cuts? That is - that is - it's not a going to tax cuts? That is - that is - it's not a question going to tax cuts? That is - that is - it's not a question that going to tax cuts? That is - that is - it's not a question that the - it's not a question that the Minister - it's not a question that the - - it's not a question that the Minister needs to - it's not a question that the Minister needs to answer. Minister needs to answer. <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> Have <INTERRUPTION> Have you <INTERRUPTION> Have you finished? <INTERRUPTION> Have you finished? No. Have you finished? No. <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> Well... <INTERRUPTION> Well... <INTERRUPTION> Well... <INTERRUPTION> Supplementary. Well... <INTERRUPTION> Supplementary. Supplementary Supplementary. Supplementary question, Supplementary. Supplementary question, the Supplementary. Supplementary question, the Hon Supplementary. Supplementary question, the Hon Deborah Supplementary. Supplementary question, the Hon Deborah Russell. question, the Hon Deborah Russell. Why, question, the Hon Deborah Russell. Why, given question, the Hon Deborah Russell. Why, given that question, the Hon Deborah Russell. Why, given that she question, the Hon Deborah Russell. Why, given that she was question, the Hon Deborah Russell. Why, given that she was advised question, the Hon Deborah Russell. Why, given that she was advised that Why, given that she was advised that the Why, given that she was advised that the benefits Why, given that she was advised that the benefits of Why, given that she was advised that the benefits of the Why, given that she was advised that the benefits of the Te Why, given that she was advised that the benefits of the Te Pukenga the benefits of the Te Pukenga merger the benefits of the Te Pukenga merger would the benefits of the Te Pukenga merger would take the benefits of the Te Pukenga merger would take at the benefits of the Te Pukenga merger would take at least the benefits of the Te Pukenga merger would take at least five merger would take at least five years merger would take at least five years to merger would take at least five years to materialise, merger would take at least five years to materialise, is merger would take at least five years to materialise, is she years to materialise, is she spending years to materialise, is she spending millions years to materialise, is she spending millions and years to materialise, is she spending millions and millions spending millions and millions against spending millions and millions against the spending millions and millions against the advice spending millions and millions against the advice of spending millions and millions against the advice of Government against the advice of Government officials against the advice of Government officials and against the advice of Government officials and own against the advice of Government officials and own special against the advice of Government officials and own special advisors officials and own special advisors breaking officials and own special advisors breaking up officials and own special advisors breaking up an officials and own special advisors breaking up an organisation officials and own special advisors breaking up an organisation that officials and own special advisors breaking up an organisation that is breaking up an organisation that is finally breaking up an organisation that is finally posting breaking up an organisation that is finally posting a breaking up an organisation that is finally posting a surplus? breaking up an organisation that is finally posting a surplus? Mr finally posting a surplus? Mr Speaker, finally posting a surplus? Mr Speaker, Te finally posting a surplus? Mr Speaker, Te Pukenga finally posting a surplus? Mr Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't finally posting a surplus? Mr Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't posted finally posting a surplus? Mr Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't posted a Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't posted a surplus Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't posted a surplus yet. Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't posted a surplus yet. However, Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't posted a surplus yet. However, I Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't posted a surplus yet. However, I can Speaker, Te Pukenga hasn't posted a surplus yet. However, I can advise surplus yet. However, I can advise the surplus yet. However, I can advise the member surplus yet. However, I can advise the member that surplus yet. However, I can advise the member that in surplus yet. However, I can advise the member that in October surplus yet. However, I can advise the member that in October 2022, surplus yet. However, I can advise the member that in October 2022, a the member that in October 2022, a business the member that in October 2022, a business case the member that in October 2022, a business case was the member that in October 2022, a business case was done the member that in October 2022, a business case was done that the member that in October 2022, a business case was done that was business case was done that was going business case was done that was going to business case was done that was going to require business case was done that was going to require Te business case was done that was going to require Te Pukenga business case was done that was going to require Te Pukenga to business case was done that was going to require Te Pukenga to have going to require Te Pukenga to have over going to require Te Pukenga to have over $900 going to require Te Pukenga to have over $900 million going to require Te Pukenga to have over $900 million spent going to require Te Pukenga to have over $900 million spent on going to require Te Pukenga to have over $900 million spent on it going to require Te Pukenga to have over $900 million spent on it to over $900 million spent on it to make over $900 million spent on it to make it over $900 million spent on it to make it fully over $900 million spent on it to make it fully operational. over $900 million spent on it to make it fully operational. The make it fully operational. The Minister make it fully operational. The Minister at make it fully operational. The Minister at the make it fully operational. The Minister at the time make it fully operational. The Minister at the time understandably Minister at the time understandably rejected Minister at the time understandably rejected that. Minister at the time understandably rejected that. They Minister at the time understandably rejected that. They came Minister at the time understandably rejected that. They came back Minister at the time understandably rejected that. They came back and rejected that. They came back and said, rejected that. They came back and said, "Oh, rejected that. They came back and said, "Oh, well, rejected that. They came back and said, "Oh, well, over rejected that. They came back and said, "Oh, well, over five rejected that. They came back and said, "Oh, well, over five years, rejected that. They came back and said, "Oh, well, over five years, it said, "Oh, well, over five years, it will said, "Oh, well, over five years, it will need said, "Oh, well, over five years, it will need over said, "Oh, well, over five years, it will need over $400 said, "Oh, well, over five years, it will need over $400 million said, "Oh, well, over five years, it will need over $400 million to said, "Oh, well, over five years, it will need over $400 million to be will need over $400 million to be operational." will need over $400 million to be operational." Again, will need over $400 million to be operational." Again, the will need over $400 million to be operational." Again, the Minister operational." Again, the Minister understandably operational." Again, the Minister understandably rejected operational." Again, the Minister understandably rejected that. operational." Again, the Minister understandably rejected that. Mr understandably rejected that. Mr Speaker, understandably rejected that. Mr Speaker, this understandably rejected that. Mr Speaker, this is understandably rejected that. Mr Speaker, this is an understandably rejected that. Mr Speaker, this is an organisation Speaker, this is an organisation that Speaker, this is an organisation that would Speaker, this is an organisation that would need Speaker, this is an organisation that would need to Speaker, this is an organisation that would need to have Speaker, this is an organisation that would need to have hundreds Speaker, this is an organisation that would need to have hundreds of that would need to have hundreds of millions that would need to have hundreds of millions of that would need to have hundreds of millions of dollars that would need to have hundreds of millions of dollars spent that would need to have hundreds of millions of dollars spent on that would need to have hundreds of millions of dollars spent on it that would need to have hundreds of millions of dollars spent on it to millions of dollars spent on it to make millions of dollars spent on it to make it millions of dollars spent on it to make it operational, millions of dollars spent on it to make it operational, to millions of dollars spent on it to make it operational, to have millions of dollars spent on it to make it operational, to have its make it operational, to have its systems make it operational, to have its systems interoperable make it operational, to have its systems interoperable and make it operational, to have its systems interoperable and I'm make it operational, to have its systems interoperable and I'm not systems interoperable and I'm not prepared systems interoperable and I'm not prepared to systems interoperable and I'm not prepared to see systems interoperable and I'm not prepared to see that systems interoperable and I'm not prepared to see that sort systems interoperable and I'm not prepared to see that sort of systems interoperable and I'm not prepared to see that sort of money prepared to see that sort of money be prepared to see that sort of money be used prepared to see that sort of money be used on prepared to see that sort of money be used on setting prepared to see that sort of money be used on setting up prepared to see that sort of money be used on setting up a prepared to see that sort of money be used on setting up a structure be used on setting up a structure when be used on setting up a structure when it be used on setting up a structure when it should be used on setting up a structure when it should be be used on setting up a structure when it should be used be used on setting up a structure when it should be used on be used on setting up a structure when it should be used on tertiary when it should be used on tertiary education. when it should be used on tertiary education. <INTERRUPTION> education. <INTERRUPTION> Question education. <INTERRUPTION> Question 11. education. <INTERRUPTION> Question 11. Thank education. <INTERRUPTION> Question 11. Thank you, education. <INTERRUPTION> Question 11. Thank you, Mr education. <INTERRUPTION> Question 11. Thank you, Mr Speaker. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister of My question is to the Minister of Commerce My question is to the Minister of Commerce and My question is to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer My question is to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: What announcements What announcements has What announcements has the What announcements has the Government What announcements has the Government made has the Government made regarding has the Government made regarding the has the Government made regarding the economic has the Government made regarding the economic regulation regarding the economic regulation of regarding the economic regulation of water regarding the economic regulation of water services? Thank Thank you, Thank you, Mr Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This Thank you, Mr Speaker. This morning, Thank you, Mr Speaker. This morning, the Thank you, Mr Speaker. This morning, the Government Thank you, Mr Speaker. This morning, the Government announced Thank you, Mr Speaker. This morning, the Government announced that Thank you, Mr Speaker. This morning, the Government announced that it Thank you, Mr Speaker. This morning, the Government announced that it is the Government announced that it is establishing the Government announced that it is establishing a the Government announced that it is establishing a new the Government announced that it is establishing a new economic establishing a new economic regulation establishing a new economic regulation regime establishing a new economic regulation regime for establishing a new economic regulation regime for water regulation regime for water providers regulation regime for water providers overseen regulation regime for water providers overseen by regulation regime for water providers overseen by the regulation regime for water providers overseen by the Commerce providers overseen by the Commerce Commission. providers overseen by the Commerce Commission. The providers overseen by the Commerce Commission. The new providers overseen by the Commerce Commission. The new regulatory Commission. The new regulatory regime Commission. The new regulatory regime will Commission. The new regulatory regime will ensure Commission. The new regulatory regime will ensure that Commission. The new regulatory regime will ensure that water regime will ensure that water providers regime will ensure that water providers invest regime will ensure that water providers invest in regime will ensure that water providers invest in the regime will ensure that water providers invest in the right providers invest in the right infrastructure, providers invest in the right infrastructure, at providers invest in the right infrastructure, at the providers invest in the right infrastructure, at the right providers invest in the right infrastructure, at the right time, infrastructure, at the right time, so infrastructure, at the right time, so that infrastructure, at the right time, so that Kiwis infrastructure, at the right time, so that Kiwis can infrastructure, at the right time, so that Kiwis can rely infrastructure, at the right time, so that Kiwis can rely on infrastructure, at the right time, so that Kiwis can rely on having so that Kiwis can rely on having fresh, so that Kiwis can rely on having fresh, clean so that Kiwis can rely on having fresh, clean water, so that Kiwis can rely on having fresh, clean water, at so that Kiwis can rely on having fresh, clean water, at an so that Kiwis can rely on having fresh, clean water, at an affordable fresh, clean water, at an affordable price. fresh, clean water, at an affordable price. Supplementary. fresh, clean water, at an affordable price. Supplementary. What price. Supplementary. What regulatory price. Supplementary. What regulatory tools price. Supplementary. What regulatory tools will price. Supplementary. What regulatory tools will be price. Supplementary. What regulatory tools will be available? regulatory tools will be available? Mr regulatory tools will be available? Mr Speaker, regulatory tools will be available? Mr Speaker, we regulatory tools will be available? Mr Speaker, we have regulatory tools will be available? Mr Speaker, we have designed regulatory tools will be available? Mr Speaker, we have designed the Mr Speaker, we have designed the economic Mr Speaker, we have designed the economic regime Mr Speaker, we have designed the economic regime to Mr Speaker, we have designed the economic regime to provide Mr Speaker, we have designed the economic regime to provide the economic regime to provide the Commerce economic regime to provide the Commerce Commission economic regime to provide the Commerce Commission with economic regime to provide the Commerce Commission with a economic regime to provide the Commerce Commission with a flexible Commerce Commission with a flexible range Commerce Commission with a flexible range of Commerce Commission with a flexible range of regulatory Commerce Commission with a flexible range of regulatory powers. Commerce Commission with a flexible range of regulatory powers. The range of regulatory powers. The initial range of regulatory powers. The initial regulatory range of regulatory powers. The initial regulatory tool range of regulatory powers. The initial regulatory tool will range of regulatory powers. The initial regulatory tool will be range of regulatory powers. The initial regulatory tool will be the initial regulatory tool will be the use initial regulatory tool will be the use of initial regulatory tool will be the use of what initial regulatory tool will be the use of what we initial regulatory tool will be the use of what we call initial regulatory tool will be the use of what we call Information use of what we call Information Disclosure, use of what we call Information Disclosure, which use of what we call Information Disclosure, which will use of what we call Information Disclosure, which will require use of what we call Information Disclosure, which will require water Disclosure, which will require water providers Disclosure, which will require water providers to Disclosure, which will require water providers to disclose Disclosure, which will require water providers to disclose important providers to disclose important information providers to disclose important information such providers to disclose important information such as providers to disclose important information such as the providers to disclose important information such as the nature providers to disclose important information such as the nature of information such as the nature of their information such as the nature of their - information such as the nature of their - or information such as the nature of their - or the information such as the nature of their - or the state information such as the nature of their - or the state of information such as the nature of their - or the state of their their - or the state of their infrastructure their - or the state of their infrastructure and their - or the state of their infrastructure and their their - or the state of their infrastructure and their financial infrastructure and their financial situation. infrastructure and their financial situation. The infrastructure and their financial situation. The Commerce infrastructure and their financial situation. The Commerce Commission situation. The Commerce Commission will situation. The Commerce Commission will also situation. The Commerce Commission will also have situation. The Commerce Commission will also have the situation. The Commerce Commission will also have the ability, situation. The Commerce Commission will also have the ability, if will also have the ability, if necessary, will also have the ability, if necessary, to will also have the ability, if necessary, to set will also have the ability, if necessary, to set minimum will also have the ability, if necessary, to set minimum or will also have the ability, if necessary, to set minimum or maximum necessary, to set minimum or maximum revenue necessary, to set minimum or maximum revenue thresholds necessary, to set minimum or maximum revenue thresholds and necessary, to set minimum or maximum revenue thresholds and impose revenue thresholds and impose quality revenue thresholds and impose quality standards revenue thresholds and impose quality standards or revenue thresholds and impose quality standards or performance quality standards or performance targets, quality standards or performance targets, and quality standards or performance targets, and ultimately quality standards or performance targets, and ultimately it quality standards or performance targets, and ultimately it could targets, and ultimately it could implement targets, and ultimately it could implement price targets, and ultimately it could implement price quality targets, and ultimately it could implement price quality regulation. implement price quality regulation. In implement price quality regulation. In addition, implement price quality regulation. In addition, we implement price quality regulation. In addition, we have implement price quality regulation. In addition, we have allowed implement price quality regulation. In addition, we have allowed the In addition, we have allowed the Commission In addition, we have allowed the Commission to In addition, we have allowed the Commission to take In addition, we have allowed the Commission to take a In addition, we have allowed the Commission to take a proportionate Commission to take a proportionate approach Commission to take a proportionate approach to Commission to take a proportionate approach to regulation Commission to take a proportionate approach to regulation by approach to regulation by categorising approach to regulation by categorising providers approach to regulation by categorising providers based approach to regulation by categorising providers based on categorising providers based on their categorising providers based on their sophistication, categorising providers based on their sophistication, strategic their sophistication, strategic importance their sophistication, strategic importance and their sophistication, strategic importance and size, their sophistication, strategic importance and size, Mr their sophistication, strategic importance and size, Mr Twyford. importance and size, Mr Twyford. Supplementary. importance and size, Mr Twyford. Supplementary. What importance and size, Mr Twyford. Supplementary. What consumer Supplementary. What consumer protections Supplementary. What consumer protections will Supplementary. What consumer protections will be Supplementary. What consumer protections will be put Supplementary. What consumer protections will be put in Supplementary. What consumer protections will be put in place? protections will be put in place? Thank protections will be put in place? Thank you, protections will be put in place? Thank you, Mr protections will be put in place? Thank you, Mr Speaker. protections will be put in place? Thank you, Mr Speaker. The protections will be put in place? Thank you, Mr Speaker. The new Thank you, Mr Speaker. The new information Thank you, Mr Speaker. The new information disclosure Thank you, Mr Speaker. The new information disclosure will Thank you, Mr Speaker. The new information disclosure will require information disclosure will require - information disclosure will require Supplementary. information disclosure will require - will allow information disclosure will require - will allow the information disclosure will require - will allow the Commission information disclosure will require - will allow the Commission to - will allow the Commission to collect - will allow the Commission to collect and - will allow the Commission to collect and analyse - will allow the Commission to collect and analyse information collect and analyse information relating collect and analyse information relating to collect and analyse information relating to consumer collect and analyse information relating to consumer protections, relating to consumer protections, such relating to consumer protections, such as relating to consumer protections, such as complaint relating to consumer protections, such as complaint procedures relating to consumer protections, such as complaint procedures and such as complaint procedures and such as complaint procedures and such as complaint procedures and customer engagement. such as complaint procedures and customer engagement. If such as complaint procedures and customer engagement. If deficiencies customer engagement. If deficiencies are customer engagement. If deficiencies are identified, customer engagement. If deficiencies are identified, the customer engagement. If deficiencies are identified, the Commission customer engagement. If deficiencies are identified, the Commission will are identified, the Commission will have are identified, the Commission will have the are identified, the Commission will have the power are identified, the Commission will have the power to are identified, the Commission will have the power to require are identified, the Commission will have the power to require further have the power to require further protections. have the power to require further protections. These have the power to require further protections. These could have the power to require further protections. These could include protections. These could include strength protections. These could include strength on protections. These could include strength on complaints protections. These could include strength on complaints procedures protections. These could include strength on complaints procedures or strength on complaints procedures or adoption strength on complaints procedures or adoption of strength on complaints procedures or adoption of an strength on complaints procedures or adoption of an external strength on complaints procedures or adoption of an external dispute adoption of an external dispute resolution adoption of an external dispute resolution arrangement. resolution arrangement. Supplementary. resolution arrangement. Supplementary. How resolution arrangement. Supplementary. How will resolution arrangement. Supplementary. How will the resolution arrangement. Supplementary. How will the economic Supplementary. How will the economic regulation Supplementary. How will the economic regulation regime Supplementary. How will the economic regulation regime ensure Supplementary. How will the economic regulation regime ensure appropriate regulation regime ensure appropriate investment? regulation regime ensure appropriate investment? Mr regulation regime ensure appropriate investment? Mr Speaker... investment? Mr Speaker... <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> An <INTERRUPTION> An important <INTERRUPTION> An important - <INTERRUPTION> An important - but <INTERRUPTION> An important - but you <INTERRUPTION> An important - but you should <INTERRUPTION> An important - but you should have An important - but you should have listened, An important - but you should have listened, Mr An important - but you should have listened, Mr Twyford. An important - but you should have listened, Mr Twyford. That's An important - but you should have listened, Mr Twyford. That's the listened, Mr Twyford. That's the difference. listened, Mr Twyford. That's the difference. The listened, Mr Twyford. That's the difference. The difference listened, Mr Twyford. That's the difference. The difference is listened, Mr Twyford. That's the difference. The difference is we're difference. The difference is we're putting difference. The difference is we're putting it difference. The difference is we're putting it in difference. The difference is we're putting it in place, difference. The difference is we're putting it in place, you difference. The difference is we're putting it in place, you talked putting it in place, you talked about putting it in place, you talked about it. putting it in place, you talked about it. <INTERRUPTION> about it. <INTERRUPTION> So, about it. <INTERRUPTION> So, Mr about it. <INTERRUPTION> So, Mr Speaker, about it. <INTERRUPTION> So, Mr Speaker, an about it. <INTERRUPTION> So, Mr Speaker, an important So, Mr Speaker, an important ingredient So, Mr Speaker, an important ingredient is So, Mr Speaker, an important ingredient is that So, Mr Speaker, an important ingredient is that the So, Mr Speaker, an important ingredient is that the economic ingredient is that the economic regime ingredient is that the economic regime requires ingredient is that the economic regime requires - ingredient is that the economic regime requires - requires ingredient is that the economic regime requires - requires that ingredient is that the economic regime requires - requires that the regime requires - requires that the revenue regime requires - requires that the revenue collected regime requires - requires that the revenue collected by regime requires - requires that the revenue collected by the regime requires - requires that the revenue collected by the water revenue collected by the water providers revenue collected by the water providers will revenue collected by the water providers will be revenue collected by the water providers will be ring-fenced revenue collected by the water providers will be ring-fenced and providers will be ring-fenced and only providers will be ring-fenced and only spent providers will be ring-fenced and only spent on providers will be ring-fenced and only spent on investing providers will be ring-fenced and only spent on investing in providers will be ring-fenced and only spent on investing in their only spent on investing in their water only spent on investing in their water infrastructure. only spent on investing in their water infrastructure. In only spent on investing in their water infrastructure. In essence, water infrastructure. In essence, we're water infrastructure. In essence, we're not water infrastructure. In essence, we're not going water infrastructure. In essence, we're not going to water infrastructure. In essence, we're not going to allow water infrastructure. In essence, we're not going to allow spending water infrastructure. In essence, we're not going to allow spending to we're not going to allow spending to be we're not going to allow spending to be directed we're not going to allow spending to be directed into we're not going to allow spending to be directed into unrelated be directed into unrelated activities. be directed into unrelated activities. Local be directed into unrelated activities. Local Water be directed into unrelated activities. Local Water Done be directed into unrelated activities. Local Water Done Well, activities. Local Water Done Well, not activities. Local Water Done Well, not only activities. Local Water Done Well, not only keeps activities. Local Water Done Well, not only keeps water activities. Local Water Done Well, not only keeps water in activities. Local Water Done Well, not only keeps water in local not only keeps water in local ownership not only keeps water in local ownership and not only keeps water in local ownership and control, not only keeps water in local ownership and control, but not only keeps water in local ownership and control, but also ownership and control, but also ensures ownership and control, but also ensures that ownership and control, but also ensures that we ownership and control, but also ensures that we get ownership and control, but also ensures that we get the ownership and control, but also ensures that we get the right ownership and control, but also ensures that we get the right level ensures that we get the right level of ensures that we get the right level of investment ensures that we get the right level of investment at ensures that we get the right level of investment at the ensures that we get the right level of investment at the right ensures that we get the right level of investment at the right time ensures that we get the right level of investment at the right time into of investment at the right time into our of investment at the right time into our water of investment at the right time into our water assets of investment at the right time into our water assets so of investment at the right time into our water assets so that of investment at the right time into our water assets so that Kiwis of investment at the right time into our water assets so that Kiwis have our water assets so that Kiwis have access our water assets so that Kiwis have access to our water assets so that Kiwis have access to high-quality, our water assets so that Kiwis have access to high-quality, affordable access to high-quality, affordable water. access to high-quality, affordable water. <INTERRUPTION> water. <INTERRUPTION> Who water. <INTERRUPTION> Who would water. <INTERRUPTION> Who would have water. <INTERRUPTION> Who would have known water. <INTERRUPTION> Who would have known water water. <INTERRUPTION> Who would have known water could Who would have known water could cause Who would have known water could cause such Who would have known water could cause such unruly Who would have known water could cause such unruly behaviour! cause such unruly behaviour! Question cause such unruly behaviour! Question 12. cause such unruly behaviour! Question 12. Thank cause such unruly behaviour! Question 12. Thank you, cause such unruly behaviour! Question 12. Thank you, Mr cause such unruly behaviour! Question 12. Thank you, Mr Speaker. My My question My question is My question is to My question is to the My question is to the Minister My question is to the Minister for My question is to the Minister for Children: Minister for Children: Does Minister for Children: Does she Minister for Children: Does she stand Minister for Children: Does she stand by Minister for Children: Does she stand by her Minister for Children: Does she stand by her statement Minister for Children: Does she stand by her statement that Does she stand by her statement that "Savings Does she stand by her statement that "Savings coming Does she stand by her statement that "Savings coming from Does she stand by her statement that "Savings coming from getting Does she stand by her statement that "Savings coming from getting money "Savings coming from getting money back "Savings coming from getting money back where "Savings coming from getting money back where it "Savings coming from getting money back where it hasn't "Savings coming from getting money back where it hasn't been "Savings coming from getting money back where it hasn't been used back where it hasn't been used are back where it hasn't been used are redirected are redirected to are redirected to other are redirected to other front-line are redirected to other front-line services"; to other front-line services"; if to other front-line services"; if so, to other front-line services"; if so, how to other front-line services"; if so, how is to other front-line services"; if so, how is the to other front-line services"; if so, how is the budget if so, how is the budget for if so, how is the budget for contracted if so, how is the budget for contracted services for contracted services being for contracted services being cut for contracted services being cut by for contracted services being cut by $120 for contracted services being cut by $120 million? Mr Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, in Mr Speaker, in answer Mr Speaker, in answer to Mr Speaker, in answer to the Mr Speaker, in answer to the first Mr Speaker, in answer to the first part Mr Speaker, in answer to the first part of Mr Speaker, in answer to the first part of the Mr Speaker, in answer to the first part of the question Mr Speaker, in answer to the first part of the question - Mr Speaker, in answer to the first part of the question - yes. Mr Speaker, in answer to the first part of the question - yes. In part of the question - yes. In answer part of the question - yes. In answer to part of the question - yes. In answer to the part of the question - yes. In answer to the second part of the question - yes. In answer to the second part part of the question - yes. In answer to the second part of part of the question - yes. In answer to the second part of the answer to the second part of the question answer to the second part of the question - answer to the second part of the question - the answer to the second part of the question - the member answer to the second part of the question - the member is answer to the second part of the question - the member is incorrect. question - the member is incorrect. The question - the member is incorrect. The figure question - the member is incorrect. The figure the question - the member is incorrect. The figure the member question - the member is incorrect. The figure the member is question - the member is incorrect. The figure the member is referring The figure the member is referring to The figure the member is referring to is The figure the member is referring to is $30 The figure the member is referring to is $30 million The figure the member is referring to is $30 million a The figure the member is referring to is $30 million a year The figure the member is referring to is $30 million a year over The figure the member is referring to is $30 million a year over four to is $30 million a year over four years to is $30 million a year over four years which to is $30 million a year over four years which is to is $30 million a year over four years which is not to is $30 million a year over four years which is not a to is $30 million a year over four years which is not a cut. to is $30 million a year over four years which is not a cut. This to is $30 million a year over four years which is not a cut. This is years which is not a cut. This is the years which is not a cut. This is the amount years which is not a cut. This is the amount Oranga years which is not a cut. This is the amount Oranga Tamariki years which is not a cut. This is the amount Oranga Tamariki has the amount Oranga Tamariki has the amount Oranga Tamariki has the amount Oranga Tamariki has forecast it the amount Oranga Tamariki has forecast it will the amount Oranga Tamariki has forecast it will be the amount Oranga Tamariki has forecast it will be able the amount Oranga Tamariki has forecast it will be able to the amount Oranga Tamariki has forecast it will be able to recover forecast it will be able to recover from forecast it will be able to recover from providers forecast it will be able to recover from providers at forecast it will be able to recover from providers at the forecast it will be able to recover from providers at the end forecast it will be able to recover from providers at the end of forecast it will be able to recover from providers at the end of a from providers at the end of a contract from providers at the end of a contract period from providers at the end of a contract period where from providers at the end of a contract period where they from providers at the end of a contract period where they have from providers at the end of a contract period where they have not contract period where they have not delivered contract period where they have not delivered everything contract period where they have not delivered everything that contract period where they have not delivered everything that we contract period where they have not delivered everything that we have delivered everything that we have paid delivered everything that we have paid for. delivered everything that we have paid for. If delivered everything that we have paid for. If taxpayers delivered everything that we have paid for. If taxpayers pay delivered everything that we have paid for. If taxpayers pay for delivered everything that we have paid for. If taxpayers pay for a paid for. If taxpayers pay for a service, paid for. If taxpayers pay for a service, and paid for. If taxpayers pay for a service, and think paid for. If taxpayers pay for a service, and think don't paid for. If taxpayers pay for a service, and think don't get paid for. If taxpayers pay for a service, and think don't get it paid for. If taxpayers pay for a service, and think don't get it in service, and think don't get it in full, service, and think don't get it in full, I service, and think don't get it in full, I expect service, and think don't get it in full, I expect that service, and think don't get it in full, I expect that money service, and think don't get it in full, I expect that money to service, and think don't get it in full, I expect that money to be full, I expect that money to be repaid. full, I expect that money to be repaid. If full, I expect that money to be repaid. If this full, I expect that money to be repaid. If this had full, I expect that money to be repaid. If this had been full, I expect that money to be repaid. If this had been happening repaid. If this had been happening over repaid. If this had been happening over the repaid. If this had been happening over the last repaid. If this had been happening over the last six repaid. If this had been happening over the last six years, repaid. If this had been happening over the last six years, there repaid. If this had been happening over the last six years, there would over the last six years, there would have over the last six years, there would have been over the last six years, there would have been at over the last six years, there would have been at least over the last six years, there would have been at least $132 over the last six years, there would have been at least $132 million over the last six years, there would have been at least $132 million that have been at least $132 million that could have been at least $132 million that could have have been at least $132 million that could have gone have been at least $132 million that could have gone to have been at least $132 million that could have gone to children have been at least $132 million that could have gone to children rather could have gone to children rather than could have gone to children rather than letting could have gone to children rather than letting some could have gone to children rather than letting some providers could have gone to children rather than letting some providers build could have gone to children rather than letting some providers build up than letting some providers build up significant than letting some providers build up significant surpluses. significant surpluses. Supplementary. significant surpluses. Supplementary. What significant surpluses. Supplementary. What evidence, significant surpluses. Supplementary. What evidence, if Supplementary. What evidence, if any, Supplementary. What evidence, if any, does Supplementary. What evidence, if any, does she Supplementary. What evidence, if any, does she have Supplementary. What evidence, if any, does she have to Supplementary. What evidence, if any, does she have to support Supplementary. What evidence, if any, does she have to support the any, does she have to support the claim any, does she have to support the claim that, any, does she have to support the claim that, quote, any, does she have to support the claim that, quote, "Oranga any, does she have to support the claim that, quote, "Oranga Tamariki claim that, quote, "Oranga Tamariki has claim that, quote, "Oranga Tamariki has been claim that, quote, "Oranga Tamariki has been the claim that, quote, "Oranga Tamariki has been the cash claim that, quote, "Oranga Tamariki has been the cash cow claim that, quote, "Oranga Tamariki has been the cash cow for claim that, quote, "Oranga Tamariki has been the cash cow for community has been the cash cow for community service has been the cash cow for community service providers"? has been the cash cow for community service providers"? And has been the cash cow for community service providers"? And does has been the cash cow for community service providers"? And does she service providers"? And does she think service providers"? And does she think that service providers"? And does she think that it's service providers"? And does she think that it's fair service providers"? And does she think that it's fair to service providers"? And does she think that it's fair to accused think that it's fair to accused valued, think that it's fair to accused valued, non-for think that it's fair to accused valued, non-for profit think that it's fair to accused valued, non-for profit community valued, non-for profit community providers valued, non-for profit community providers at valued, non-for profit community providers at the valued, non-for profit community providers at the front-line valued, non-for profit community providers at the front-line of providers at the front-line of banking providers at the front-line of banking funding providers at the front-line of banking funding instead providers at the front-line of banking funding instead of providers at the front-line of banking funding instead of caring banking funding instead of caring for banking funding instead of caring for at-risk banking funding instead of caring for at-risk tamariki? banking funding instead of caring for at-risk tamariki? Mr banking funding instead of caring for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, banking funding instead of caring for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I refer for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I refer the for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I refer the member for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I refer the member to for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I refer the member to an for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I refer the member to an answer for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I refer the member to an answer from for at-risk tamariki? Mr Speaker, I refer the member to an answer from a refer the member to an answer from a previous refer the member to an answer from a previous question refer the member to an answer from a previous question today. refer the member to an answer from a previous question today. The refer the member to an answer from a previous question today. The member previous question today. The member would previous question today. The member would have previous question today. The member would have heard previous question today. The member would have heard about previous question today. The member would have heard about the previous question today. The member would have heard about the $22 would have heard about the $22 million would have heard about the $22 million Oranga would have heard about the $22 million Oranga Tamariki would have heard about the $22 million Oranga Tamariki has would have heard about the $22 million Oranga Tamariki has already million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered from million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered from the million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered from the last million Oranga Tamariki has already recovered from the last financial recovered from the last financial year recovered from the last financial year where recovered from the last financial year where services recovered from the last financial year where services weren't year where services weren't delivered year where services weren't delivered with year where services weren't delivered with more year where services weren't delivered with more expected year where services weren't delivered with more expected to delivered with more expected to come. delivered with more expected to come. In delivered with more expected to come. In previous delivered with more expected to come. In previous years, delivered with more expected to come. In previous years, providers come. In previous years, providers have come. In previous years, providers have accumulated come. In previous years, providers have accumulated significant have accumulated significant surpluses have accumulated significant surpluses and have accumulated significant surpluses and this have accumulated significant surpluses and this is have accumulated significant surpluses and this is unacceptable. surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every cent surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every cent of surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer surpluses and this is unacceptable. Every cent of taxpayer funding Every cent of taxpayer funding providers Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive needs Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive needs to Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive needs to reach Every cent of taxpayer funding providers receive needs to reach the providers receive needs to reach the children providers receive needs to reach the children and providers receive needs to reach the children and young providers receive needs to reach the children and young people providers receive needs to reach the children and young people it providers receive needs to reach the children and young people it is children and young people it is intended children and young people it is intended for. children and young people it is intended for. Not children and young people it is intended for. Not sit children and young people it is intended for. Not sit idle children and young people it is intended for. Not sit idle in children and young people it is intended for. Not sit idle in bank intended for. Not sit idle in bank accounts. intended for. Not sit idle in bank accounts. Supplementary. intended for. Not sit idle in bank accounts. Supplementary. Thank intended for. Not sit idle in bank accounts. Supplementary. Thank you, accounts. Supplementary. Thank you, Mr accounts. Supplementary. Thank you, Mr Speaker. accounts. Supplementary. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will accounts. Supplementary. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will she accounts. Supplementary. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will she visit accounts. Supplementary. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Will she visit community Mr Speaker. Will she visit community organisations Mr Speaker. Will she visit community organisations like Mr Speaker. Will she visit community organisations like Family Mr Speaker. Will she visit community organisations like Family Start Mr Speaker. Will she visit community organisations like Family Start in organisations like Family Start in Nelson organisations like Family Start in Nelson and organisations like Family Start in Nelson and meet organisations like Family Start in Nelson and meet with organisations like Family Start in Nelson and meet with staff organisations like Family Start in Nelson and meet with staff and Nelson and meet with staff and clients Nelson and meet with staff and clients so Nelson and meet with staff and clients so she Nelson and meet with staff and clients so she can Nelson and meet with staff and clients so she can get Nelson and meet with staff and clients so she can get a Nelson and meet with staff and clients so she can get a proper clients so she can get a proper understanding clients so she can get a proper understanding of clients so she can get a proper understanding of the clients so she can get a proper understanding of the critical clients so she can get a proper understanding of the critical work understanding of the critical work they understanding of the critical work they do understanding of the critical work they do to understanding of the critical work they do to support understanding of the critical work they do to support babies, understanding of the critical work they do to support babies, children they do to support babies, children and they do to support babies, children and families? they do to support babies, children and families? Mr they do to support babies, children and families? Mr Speaker, they do to support babies, children and families? Mr Speaker, nobody they do to support babies, children and families? Mr Speaker, nobody is and families? Mr Speaker, nobody is denying and families? Mr Speaker, nobody is denying that and families? Mr Speaker, nobody is denying that they and families? Mr Speaker, nobody is denying that they don't and families? Mr Speaker, nobody is denying that they don't do and families? Mr Speaker, nobody is denying that they don't do a and families? Mr Speaker, nobody is denying that they don't do a good denying that they don't do a good job denying that they don't do a good job in denying that they don't do a good job in those denying that they don't do a good job in those services. job in those services. <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> What <INTERRUPTION> What we're <INTERRUPTION> What we're saying <INTERRUPTION> What we're saying is <INTERRUPTION> What we're saying is is <INTERRUPTION> What we're saying is is they What we're saying is is they underdelivered What we're saying is is they underdelivered in What we're saying is is they underdelivered in the What we're saying is is they underdelivered in the last What we're saying is is they underdelivered in the last financial underdelivered in the last financial year underdelivered in the last financial year and underdelivered in the last financial year and they underdelivered in the last financial year and they new underdelivered in the last financial year and they new contract underdelivered in the last financial year and they new contract has underdelivered in the last financial year and they new contract has been year and they new contract has been adjusted year and they new contract has been adjusted from year and they new contract has been adjusted from the year and they new contract has been adjusted from the information year and they new contract has been adjusted from the information that adjusted from the information that we adjusted from the information that we received adjusted from the information that we received from adjusted from the information that we received from them. we received from them. Supplementary. we received from them. Supplementary. Does we received from them. Supplementary. Does she we received from them. Supplementary. Does she accept we received from them. Supplementary. Does she accept the Supplementary. Does she accept the recent Supplementary. Does she accept the recent finding Supplementary. Does she accept the recent finding by Supplementary. Does she accept the recent finding by the Supplementary. Does she accept the recent finding by the Independent recent finding by the Independent Children's recent finding by the Independent Children's monitor recent finding by the Independent Children's monitor that recent finding by the Independent Children's monitor that Oranga Children's monitor that Oranga Tamariki Children's monitor that Oranga Tamariki does Children's monitor that Oranga Tamariki does not Children's monitor that Oranga Tamariki does not have Children's monitor that Oranga Tamariki does not have the Children's monitor that Oranga Tamariki does not have the systems Tamariki does not have the systems in Tamariki does not have the systems in place Tamariki does not have the systems in place to Tamariki does not have the systems in place to properly Tamariki does not have the systems in place to properly monitor Tamariki does not have the systems in place to properly monitor their in place to properly monitor their own in place to properly monitor their own practises? in place to properly monitor their own practises? And in place to properly monitor their own practises? And if in place to properly monitor their own practises? And if so, in place to properly monitor their own practises? And if so, how in place to properly monitor their own practises? And if so, how can own practises? And if so, how can she own practises? And if so, how can she be own practises? And if so, how can she be confident own practises? And if so, how can she be confident that own practises? And if so, how can she be confident that each own practises? And if so, how can she be confident that each of own practises? And if so, how can she be confident that each of the she be confident that each of the 332 she be confident that each of the 332 front-line she be confident that each of the 332 front-line service she be confident that each of the 332 front-line service providers she be confident that each of the 332 front-line service providers who 332 front-line service providers who have 332 front-line service providers who have had 332 front-line service providers who have had all 332 front-line service providers who have had all or 332 front-line service providers who have had all or part 332 front-line service providers who have had all or part of 332 front-line service providers who have had all or part of their have had all or part of their funding have had all or part of their funding cut, have had all or part of their funding cut, have have had all or part of their funding cut, have been have had all or part of their funding cut, have been evaluated funding cut, have been evaluated fairly funding cut, have been evaluated fairly and funding cut, have been evaluated fairly and accurately? funding cut, have been evaluated fairly and accurately? Mr funding cut, have been evaluated fairly and accurately? Mr Speaker, fairly and accurately? Mr Speaker, all fairly and accurately? Mr Speaker, all decisions fairly and accurately? Mr Speaker, all decisions are fairly and accurately? Mr Speaker, all decisions are at fairly and accurately? Mr Speaker, all decisions are at Oranga fairly and accurately? Mr Speaker, all decisions are at Oranga Tamariki all decisions are at Oranga Tamariki level, all decisions are at Oranga Tamariki level, but all decisions are at Oranga Tamariki level, but I all decisions are at Oranga Tamariki level, but I instructed all decisions are at Oranga Tamariki level, but I instructed Oranga level, but I instructed Oranga Tamariki level, but I instructed Oranga Tamariki to level, but I instructed Oranga Tamariki to do level, but I instructed Oranga Tamariki to do a level, but I instructed Oranga Tamariki to do a thorough level, but I instructed Oranga Tamariki to do a thorough process level, but I instructed Oranga Tamariki to do a thorough process of Tamariki to do a thorough process of checking Tamariki to do a thorough process of checking through Tamariki to do a thorough process of checking through contracts Tamariki to do a thorough process of checking through contracts to Tamariki to do a thorough process of checking through contracts to make checking through contracts to make sure checking through contracts to make sure we checking through contracts to make sure we were checking through contracts to make sure we were getting checking through contracts to make sure we were getting the checking through contracts to make sure we were getting the services sure we were getting the services that sure we were getting the services that we sure we were getting the services that we were sure we were getting the services that we were paying sure we were getting the services that we were paying for sure we were getting the services that we were paying for and sure we were getting the services that we were paying for and make that we were paying for and make sure that we were paying for and make sure that that we were paying for and make sure that we that we were paying for and make sure that we were that we were paying for and make sure that we were actually that we were paying for and make sure that we were actually targeting sure that we were actually targeting the sure that we were actually targeting the right sure that we were actually targeting the right areas sure that we were actually targeting the right areas for sure that we were actually targeting the right areas for the sure that we were actually targeting the right areas for the care sure that we were actually targeting the right areas for the care and the right areas for the care and protection the right areas for the care and protection of the right areas for the care and protection of our the right areas for the care and protection of our young the right areas for the care and protection of our young people. the right areas for the care and protection of our young people. I protection of our young people. I believe protection of our young people. I believe they protection of our young people. I believe they have protection of our young people. I believe they have done protection of our young people. I believe they have done so. believe they have done so. Supplementary. believe they have done so. Supplementary. Supplementary Supplementary. Supplementary question, Supplementary. Supplementary believe Supplementary. Supplementary question, the Hon Supplementary. Supplementary question, the Hon Winston Supplementary. Supplementary question, the Hon Winston Peters. question, the Hon Winston Peters. Can question, the Hon Winston Peters. Can I question, the Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask question, the Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the question, the Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the Minister question, the Hon Winston Peters. Can I ask the Minister whether Can I ask the Minister whether she'll Can I ask the Minister whether she'll thank Can I ask the Minister whether she'll thank the Can I ask the Minister whether she'll thank the questioner Can I ask the Minister whether she'll thank the questioner for she'll thank the questioner for consenting she'll thank the questioner for consenting that she'll thank the questioner for consenting that Oranga she'll thank the questioner for consenting that Oranga Tamariki she'll thank the questioner for consenting that Oranga Tamariki does consenting that Oranga Tamariki does not consenting that Oranga Tamariki does not have consenting that Oranga Tamariki does not have the consenting that Oranga Tamariki does not have the assistance consenting that Oranga Tamariki does not have the assistance in consenting that Oranga Tamariki does not have the assistance in place consenting that Oranga Tamariki does not have the assistance in place to not have the assistance in place to do not have the assistance in place to do the not have the assistance in place to do the job not have the assistance in place to do the job properly not have the assistance in place to do the job properly and not have the assistance in place to do the job properly and that's not have the assistance in place to do the job properly and that's what do the job properly and that's what you're do the job properly and that's what you're setting do the job properly and that's what you're setting about do the job properly and that's what you're setting about to do the job properly and that's what you're setting about to fix? you're setting about to fix? Absolutely, you're setting about to fix? Absolutely, Mr you're setting about to fix? Absolutely, Mr Speaker. you're setting about to fix? Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Over you're setting about to fix? Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Over the Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Over the years, Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Over the years, Oranga Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Over the years, Oranga Tamariki Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Over the years, Oranga Tamariki has Absolutely, Mr Speaker. Over the years, Oranga Tamariki has not years, Oranga Tamariki has not performed years, Oranga Tamariki has not performed as years, Oranga Tamariki has not performed as well years, Oranga Tamariki has not performed as well as years, Oranga Tamariki has not performed as well as what years, Oranga Tamariki has not performed as well as what the years, Oranga Tamariki has not performed as well as what the public performed as well as what the public would performed as well as what the public would expect. performed as well as what the public would expect. I performed as well as what the public would expect. I am performed as well as what the public would expect. I am now performed as well as what the public would expect. I am now setting would expect. I am now setting expectations would expect. I am now setting expectations that would expect. I am now setting expectations that they would expect. I am now setting expectations that they achieve would expect. I am now setting expectations that they achieve the expectations that they achieve the right expectations that they achieve the right goals expectations that they achieve the right goals and expectations that they achieve the right goals and they're expectations that they achieve the right goals and they're making expectations that they achieve the right goals and they're making sure right goals and they're making sure they're right goals and they're making sure they're spending right goals and they're making sure they're spending taxpayer right goals and they're making sure they're spending taxpayer money they're spending taxpayer money wisely. they're spending taxpayer money wisely. Supplementary. they're spending taxpayer money wisely. Supplementary. Will they're spending taxpayer money wisely. Supplementary. Will the they're spending taxpayer money wisely. Supplementary. Will the 14 wisely. Supplementary. Will the 14 million wisely. Supplementary. Will the 14 million cut wisely. Supplementary. Will the 14 million cut from wisely. Supplementary. Will the 14 million cut from Family wisely. Supplementary. Will the 14 million cut from Family Start million cut from Family Start Nelson, million cut from Family Start Nelson, be million cut from Family Start Nelson, be redirected million cut from Family Start Nelson, be redirected to million cut from Family Start Nelson, be redirected to other Nelson, be redirected to other front-line Nelson, be redirected to other front-line services? Nelson, be redirected to other front-line services? And Nelson, be redirected to other front-line services? And if Nelson, be redirected to other front-line services? And if so, front-line services? And if so, which front-line services? And if so, which comparable front-line services? And if so, which comparable service front-line services? And if so, which comparable service in front-line services? And if so, which comparable service in Nelson which comparable service in Nelson are which comparable service in Nelson are being which comparable service in Nelson are being funded which comparable service in Nelson are being funded to which comparable service in Nelson are being funded to fill which comparable service in Nelson are being funded to fill this which comparable service in Nelson are being funded to fill this gap? are being funded to fill this gap? Mr are being funded to fill this gap? Mr Speaker, are being funded to fill this gap? Mr Speaker, I are being funded to fill this gap? Mr Speaker, I believe are being funded to fill this gap? Mr Speaker, I believe we are being funded to fill this gap? Mr Speaker, I believe we have Mr Speaker, I believe we have already Mr Speaker, I believe we have already spoken Mr Speaker, I believe we have already spoken about Mr Speaker, I believe we have already spoken about that Mr Speaker, I believe we have already spoken about that provider already spoken about that provider previously already spoken about that provider previously where already spoken about that provider previously where they already spoken about that provider previously where they did already spoken about that provider previously where they did not previously where they did not deliver previously where they did not deliver to previously where they did not deliver to the previously where they did not deliver to the full previously where they did not deliver to the full services previously where they did not deliver to the full services that deliver to the full services that they deliver to the full services that they were deliver to the full services that they were paid deliver to the full services that they were paid for. deliver to the full services that they were paid for. Their deliver to the full services that they were paid for. Their funding they were paid for. Their funding has they were paid for. Their funding has been they were paid for. Their funding has been adjusted they were paid for. Their funding has been adjusted based they were paid for. Their funding has been adjusted based on they were paid for. Their funding has been adjusted based on the has been adjusted based on the information has been adjusted based on the information they has been adjusted based on the information they provided has been adjusted based on the information they provided Oranga information they provided Oranga Tamariki, information they provided Oranga Tamariki, and information they provided Oranga Tamariki, and Oranga information they provided Oranga Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki information they provided Oranga Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki will Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki will make Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki will make sure Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki will make sure that Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki will make sure that that Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki will make sure that that money Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki will make sure that that money is Tamariki, and Oranga Tamariki will make sure that that money is not make sure that that money is not sitting make sure that that money is not sitting in make sure that that money is not sitting in a make sure that that money is not sitting in a bank make sure that that money is not sitting in a bank account make sure that that money is not sitting in a bank account and make sure that that money is not sitting in a bank account and it make sure that that money is not sitting in a bank account and it is sitting in a bank account and it is going sitting in a bank account and it is going to sitting in a bank account and it is going to a sitting in a bank account and it is going to a provider sitting in a bank account and it is going to a provider that sitting in a bank account and it is going to a provider that can going to a provider that can actually going to a provider that can actually provide going to a provider that can actually provide a going to a provider that can actually provide a service. actually provide a service. Supplementary. actually provide a service. Supplementary. Is actually provide a service. Supplementary. Is she actually provide a service. Supplementary. Is she concerned actually provide a service. Supplementary. Is she concerned that Supplementary. Is she concerned that the Supplementary. Is she concerned that the cuts Supplementary. Is she concerned that the cuts to Supplementary. Is she concerned that the cuts to Presbyterian Supplementary. Is she concerned that the cuts to Presbyterian Support the cuts to Presbyterian Support South the cuts to Presbyterian Support South Canterbury's the cuts to Presbyterian Support South Canterbury's funding the cuts to Presbyterian Support South Canterbury's funding mean South Canterbury's funding mean that, South Canterbury's funding mean that, quote, South Canterbury's funding mean that, quote, "There South Canterbury's funding mean that, quote, "There will South Canterbury's funding mean that, quote, "There will no South Canterbury's funding mean that, quote, "There will no longer that, quote, "There will no longer be that, quote, "There will no longer be any that, quote, "There will no longer be any free that, quote, "There will no longer be any free counselling that, quote, "There will no longer be any free counselling services be any free counselling services available be any free counselling services available within be any free counselling services available within South be any free counselling services available within South Canterbury"? available within South Canterbury"? And available within South Canterbury"? And if available within South Canterbury"? And if not, available within South Canterbury"? And if not, why available within South Canterbury"? And if not, why is available within South Canterbury"? And if not, why is she available within South Canterbury"? And if not, why is she comfortable And if not, why is she comfortable with And if not, why is she comfortable with creating And if not, why is she comfortable with creating these And if not, why is she comfortable with creating these gaps And if not, why is she comfortable with creating these gaps in with creating these gaps in front-line with creating these gaps in front-line service with creating these gaps in front-line service provision? with creating these gaps in front-line service provision? I front-line service provision? I cannot front-line service provision? I cannot make front-line service provision? I cannot make an front-line service provision? I cannot make an answer front-line service provision? I cannot make an answer on front-line service provision? I cannot make an answer on information cannot make an answer on information I cannot make an answer on information I don't cannot make an answer on information I don't currently cannot make an answer on information I don't currently have cannot make an answer on information I don't currently have in cannot make an answer on information I don't currently have in front cannot make an answer on information I don't currently have in front of I don't currently have in front of me. I don't currently have in front of me. If I don't currently have in front of me. If that I don't currently have in front of me. If that member I don't currently have in front of me. If that member would I don't currently have in front of me. If that member would like me. If that member would like information me. If that member would like information on me. If that member would like information on that me. If that member would like information on that specific information on that specific question, information on that specific question, please information on that specific question, please put information on that specific question, please put it information on that specific question, please put it in information on that specific question, please put it in writing. question, please put it in writing. But question, please put it in writing. But what question, please put it in writing. But what I question, please put it in writing. But what I would question, please put it in writing. But what I would say question, please put it in writing. But what I would say is question, please put it in writing. But what I would say is - question, please put it in writing. But what I would say is - we question, please put it in writing. But what I would say is - we are But what I would say is - we are making But what I would say is - we are making sure But what I would say is - we are making sure that But what I would say is - we are making sure that every But what I would say is - we are making sure that every dollar But what I would say is - we are making sure that every dollar of making sure that every dollar of taxpayer making sure that every dollar of taxpayer money making sure that every dollar of taxpayer money that making sure that every dollar of taxpayer money that is making sure that every dollar of taxpayer money that is being making sure that every dollar of taxpayer money that is being spent taxpayer money that is being spent is taxpayer money that is being spent is actually taxpayer money that is being spent is actually going taxpayer money that is being spent is actually going towards taxpayer money that is being spent is actually going towards a taxpayer money that is being spent is actually going towards a service is actually going towards a service that is actually going towards a service that is is actually going towards a service that is being is actually going towards a service that is being provided is actually going towards a service that is being provided to is actually going towards a service that is being provided to our is actually going towards a service that is being provided to our young that is being provided to our young people that is being provided to our young people who that is being provided to our young people who are that is being provided to our young people who are in that is being provided to our young people who are in the that is being provided to our young people who are in the care that is being provided to our young people who are in the care and people who are in the care and protection people who are in the care and protection or people who are in the care and protection or the people who are in the care and protection or the attention people who are in the care and protection or the attention of protection or the attention of Oranga protection or the attention of Oranga Tamariki. protection or the attention of Oranga Tamariki. How protection or the attention of Oranga Tamariki. How can protection or the attention of Oranga Tamariki. How can she Oranga Tamariki. How can she continue Oranga Tamariki. How can she continue to Oranga Tamariki. How can she continue to claim Oranga Tamariki. How can she continue to claim that Oranga Tamariki. How can she continue to claim that savings Oranga Tamariki. How can she continue to claim that savings are continue to claim that savings are being continue to claim that savings are being redirected continue to claim that savings are being redirected to continue to claim that savings are being redirected to other continue to claim that savings are being redirected to other front-line being redirected to other front-line services being redirected to other front-line services when being redirected to other front-line services when the being redirected to other front-line services when the Government being redirected to other front-line services when the Government is services when the Government is simply services when the Government is simply cutting services when the Government is simply cutting the services when the Government is simply cutting the budget services when the Government is simply cutting the budget for simply cutting the budget for contracted simply cutting the budget for contracted services simply cutting the budget for contracted services by simply cutting the budget for contracted services by $120 simply cutting the budget for contracted services by $120 million contracted services by $120 million to contracted services by $120 million to help contracted services by $120 million to help fund contracted services by $120 million to help fund the contracted services by $120 million to help fund the tax contracted services by $120 million to help fund the tax cuts contracted services by $120 million to help fund the tax cuts for to help fund the tax cuts for landlords? to help fund the tax cuts for landlords? <INTERRUPTION> landlords? <INTERRUPTION> The landlords? <INTERRUPTION> The last landlords? <INTERRUPTION> The last part landlords? <INTERRUPTION> The last part of landlords? <INTERRUPTION> The last part of the landlords? <INTERRUPTION> The last part of the question The last part of the question renders The last part of the question renders it The last part of the question renders it somewhat The last part of the question renders it somewhat out The last part of the question renders it somewhat out of The last part of the question renders it somewhat out of order. renders it somewhat out of order. Just renders it somewhat out of order. Just ask renders it somewhat out of order. Just ask the renders it somewhat out of order. Just ask the question renders it somewhat out of order. Just ask the question without renders it somewhat out of order. Just ask the question without the Just ask the question without the extra Just ask the question without the extra bit Just ask the question without the extra bit on Just ask the question without the extra bit on the Just ask the question without the extra bit on the end. Just ask the question without the extra bit on the end. Thank Just ask the question without the extra bit on the end. Thank you, Just ask the question without the extra bit on the end. Thank you, Mr extra bit on the end. Thank you, Mr Speaker. extra bit on the end. Thank you, Mr Speaker. How extra bit on the end. Thank you, Mr Speaker. How can extra bit on the end. Thank you, Mr Speaker. How can she extra bit on the end. Thank you, Mr Speaker. How can she continue extra bit on the end. Thank you, Mr Speaker. How can she continue to Speaker. How can she continue to claim Speaker. How can she continue to claim that Speaker. How can she continue to claim that the Speaker. How can she continue to claim that the savings Speaker. How can she continue to claim that the savings are Speaker. How can she continue to claim that the savings are being claim that the savings are being redirected claim that the savings are being redirected to claim that the savings are being redirected to other claim that the savings are being redirected to other front-line redirected to other front-line services, redirected to other front-line services, when redirected to other front-line services, when the redirected to other front-line services, when the Government redirected to other front-line services, when the Government is services, when the Government is simply services, when the Government is simply cutting services, when the Government is simply cutting the services, when the Government is simply cutting the budget services, when the Government is simply cutting the budget for simply cutting the budget for contracted simply cutting the budget for contracted services simply cutting the budget for contracted services by simply cutting the budget for contracted services by $120 simply cutting the budget for contracted services by $120 million contracted services by $120 million and contracted services by $120 million and putting contracted services by $120 million and putting it contracted services by $120 million and putting it back contracted services by $120 million and putting it back into contracted services by $120 million and putting it back into the contracted services by $120 million and putting it back into the overall and putting it back into the overall bucket? and putting it back into the overall bucket? I and putting it back into the overall bucket? I can and putting it back into the overall bucket? I can stand and putting it back into the overall bucket? I can stand here and putting it back into the overall bucket? I can stand here and and putting it back into the overall bucket? I can stand here and say bucket? I can stand here and say that, bucket? I can stand here and say that, because bucket? I can stand here and say that, because that's bucket? I can stand here and say that, because that's not bucket? I can stand here and say that, because that's not what bucket? I can stand here and say that, because that's not what is that, because that's not what is happening. that, because that's not what is happening. That that, because that's not what is happening. That money that, because that's not what is happening. That money is that, because that's not what is happening. That money is not that, because that's not what is happening. That money is not going happening. That money is not going back happening. That money is not going back into happening. That money is not going back into the happening. That money is not going back into the main happening. That money is not going back into the main budget. happening. That money is not going back into the main budget. That back into the main budget. That money back into the main budget. That money is back into the main budget. That money is being back into the main budget. That money is being redistributed back into the main budget. That money is being redistributed back back into the main budget. That money is being redistributed back to money is being redistributed back to front-line money is being redistributed back to front-line services. That That bring That bring an That bring an end That bring an end to That bring an end to Oral That bring an end to Oral Questions. That bring an end to Oral Questions. Just That bring an end to Oral Questions. Just take That bring an end to Oral Questions. Just take a That bring an end to Oral Questions. Just take a minute That bring an end to Oral Questions. Just take a minute while That bring an end to Oral Questions. Just take a minute while members Just take a minute while members leave Just take a minute while members leave the Just take a minute while members leave the House Just take a minute while members leave the House quietly Just take a minute while members leave the House quietly and Just take a minute while members leave the House quietly and quickly leave the House quietly and quickly - leave the House quietly and quickly - without leave the House quietly and quickly - without conversations leave the House quietly and quickly - without conversations on leave the House quietly and quickly - without conversations on the - without conversations on the way... I I call I call on I call on Government I call on Government Order I call on Government Order of I call on Government Order of the I call on Government Order of the Day I call on Government Order of the Day No. I call on Government Order of the Day No. 1. I call on Government Order of the Day No. 1. Building Day No. 1. Building (Earthquake-prone Day No. 1. Building (Earthquake-prone Building Day No. 1. Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. Mr and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. Mr Speaker. and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. Mr Speaker. The and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. Mr Speaker. The Hon first reading. Mr Speaker. The Hon Chris first reading. Mr Speaker. The Hon Chris Penk. first reading. Mr Speaker. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank first reading. Mr Speaker. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you first reading. Mr Speaker. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very first reading. Mr Speaker. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, first reading. Mr Speaker. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Mr Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I I present I present a I present a legislative I present a legislative statement I present a legislative statement on I present a legislative statement on the I present a legislative statement on the Building statement on the Building (Earthquake-prone statement on the Building (Earthquake-prone Building statement on the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. That and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. That legislative and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. That legislative statement That legislative statement is That legislative statement is published That legislative statement is published under That legislative statement is published under the That legislative statement is published under the authority is published under the authority of is published under the authority of the is published under the authority of the House is published under the authority of the House and is published under the authority of the House and can is published under the authority of the House and can be is published under the authority of the House and can be found of the House and can be found on of the House and can be found on the of the House and can be found on the parliament of the House and can be found on the parliament website. The The Hon The Hon Chris The Hon Chris Penk. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you, The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you, Mr The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you, Mr Speaker, The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you, Mr Speaker, again. I I move, I move, That I move, That the I move, That the Building I move, That the Building (Earthquake-prone I move, That the Building (Earthquake-prone Building I move, That the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. now read a first time. I now read a first time. I nominate now read a first time. I nominate the now read a first time. I nominate the Transport I nominate the Transport and I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure Committee and Infrastructure Committee to and Infrastructure Committee to consider and Infrastructure Committee to consider the and Infrastructure Committee to consider the bill. to consider the bill. At to consider the bill. At the to consider the bill. At the appropriate to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend At the appropriate time, I intend to At the appropriate time, I intend to move At the appropriate time, I intend to move that At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to move that the bill be reported to to move that the bill be reported to the to move that the bill be reported to the House to move that the bill be reported to the House by to move that the bill be reported to the House by 31 to move that the bill be reported to the House by 31 October to move that the bill be reported to the House by 31 October 2024 to the House by 31 October 2024 and to the House by 31 October 2024 and that to the House by 31 October 2024 and that the to the House by 31 October 2024 and that the committee to the House by 31 October 2024 and that the committee have and that the committee have authority and that the committee have authority to and that the committee have authority to meet and that the committee have authority to meet at and that the committee have authority to meet at any and that the committee have authority to meet at any time authority to meet at any time while authority to meet at any time while the authority to meet at any time while the House authority to meet at any time while the House is authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting while the House is sitting (except while the House is sitting (except during while the House is sitting (except during Oral while the House is sitting (except during Oral Questions), (except during Oral Questions), during (except during Oral Questions), during any (except during Oral Questions), during any evening (except during Oral Questions), during any evening on (except during Oral Questions), during any evening on a (except during Oral Questions), during any evening on a day during any evening on a day on during any evening on a day on which during any evening on a day on which there during any evening on a day on which there has during any evening on a day on which there has been on which there has been a on which there has been a sitting on which there has been a sitting of on which there has been a sitting of the on which there has been a sitting of the House, a sitting of the House, on a sitting of the House, on a a sitting of the House, on a Friday a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week on a Friday in a week in on a Friday in a week in which on a Friday in a week in which there on a Friday in a week in which there has on a Friday in a week in which there has been on a Friday in a week in which there has been a on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting in which there has been a sitting of in which there has been a sitting of the in which there has been a sitting of the House, of the House, and of the House, and outside of the House, and outside the of the House, and outside the Wellington of the House, and outside the Wellington area, and outside the Wellington area, despite and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders despite Standing Orders 193, despite Standing Orders 193, 195, despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196. Sir, Sir, I Sir, I would Sir, I would now Sir, I would now like Sir, I would now like to Sir, I would now like to outline Sir, I would now like to outline the Sir, I would now like to outline the key Sir, I would now like to outline the key changes Sir, I would now like to outline the key changes contained Sir, I would now like to outline the key changes contained in Sir, I would now like to outline the key changes contained in the Sir, I would now like to outline the key changes contained in the bill. key changes contained in the bill. They key changes contained in the bill. They cover key changes contained in the bill. They cover three key changes contained in the bill. They cover three areas. They cover three areas. Earthquake-prone They cover three areas. Earthquake-prone buildings, They cover three areas. Earthquake-prone buildings, most Earthquake-prone buildings, most obviously, Earthquake-prone buildings, most obviously, as Earthquake-prone buildings, most obviously, as the Earthquake-prone buildings, most obviously, as the name Earthquake-prone buildings, most obviously, as the name suggests. Earthquake-prone buildings, most obviously, as the name suggests. The obviously, as the name suggests. The builder obviously, as the name suggests. The builder warranter obviously, as the name suggests. The builder warranter fitness obviously, as the name suggests. The builder warranter fitness scheme, builder warranter fitness scheme, and builder warranter fitness scheme, and changes builder warranter fitness scheme, and changes that builder warranter fitness scheme, and changes that could builder warranter fitness scheme, and changes that could be and changes that could be characterised and changes that could be characterised as and changes that could be characterised as minor and changes that could be characterised as minor or and changes that could be characterised as minor or technical characterised as minor or technical in characterised as minor or technical in nature. characterised as minor or technical in nature. First, characterised as minor or technical in nature. First, extending in nature. First, extending earthquake-prone in nature. First, extending earthquake-prone building in nature. First, extending earthquake-prone building deadlines. earthquake-prone building deadlines. Sir, earthquake-prone building deadlines. Sir, I earthquake-prone building deadlines. Sir, I am earthquake-prone building deadlines. Sir, I am delighted earthquake-prone building deadlines. Sir, I am delighted that, earthquake-prone building deadlines. Sir, I am delighted that, today, earthquake-prone building deadlines. Sir, I am delighted that, today, the Sir, I am delighted that, today, the Government Sir, I am delighted that, today, the Government is Sir, I am delighted that, today, the Government is taking Sir, I am delighted that, today, the Government is taking steps Sir, I am delighted that, today, the Government is taking steps to Government is taking steps to provide Government is taking steps to provide more Government is taking steps to provide more certainty Government is taking steps to provide more certainty and Government is taking steps to provide more certainty and clarity provide more certainty and clarity to provide more certainty and clarity to New provide more certainty and clarity to New Zealanders provide more certainty and clarity to New Zealanders about provide more certainty and clarity to New Zealanders about the to New Zealanders about the earthquake-prone to New Zealanders about the earthquake-prone buildings to New Zealanders about the earthquake-prone buildings system. earthquake-prone buildings system. This earthquake-prone buildings system. This was earthquake-prone buildings system. This was an earthquake-prone buildings system. This was an issue earthquake-prone buildings system. This was an issue that earthquake-prone buildings system. This was an issue that affects earthquake-prone buildings system. This was an issue that affects New This was an issue that affects New Zealanders This was an issue that affects New Zealanders up This was an issue that affects New Zealanders up and This was an issue that affects New Zealanders up and down This was an issue that affects New Zealanders up and down the This was an issue that affects New Zealanders up and down the country, Zealanders up and down the country, in Zealanders up and down the country, in large Zealanders up and down the country, in large cities Zealanders up and down the country, in large cities and Zealanders up and down the country, in large cities and small Zealanders up and down the country, in large cities and small regional in large cities and small regional towns in large cities and small regional towns alike. in large cities and small regional towns alike. Collectively, in large cities and small regional towns alike. Collectively, there in large cities and small regional towns alike. Collectively, there are towns alike. Collectively, there are approximately towns alike. Collectively, there are approximately 5,000 towns alike. Collectively, there are approximately 5,000 earthquake-prone approximately 5,000 earthquake-prone buildings approximately 5,000 earthquake-prone buildings in approximately 5,000 earthquake-prone buildings in New approximately 5,000 earthquake-prone buildings in New Zealand approximately 5,000 earthquake-prone buildings in New Zealand - approximately 5,000 earthquake-prone buildings in New Zealand - and, buildings in New Zealand - and, unfortunately, buildings in New Zealand - and, unfortunately, in buildings in New Zealand - and, unfortunately, in many buildings in New Zealand - and, unfortunately, in many cases, buildings in New Zealand - and, unfortunately, in many cases, these unfortunately, in many cases, these are unfortunately, in many cases, these are sitting unfortunately, in many cases, these are sitting empty unfortunately, in many cases, these are sitting empty and unfortunately, in many cases, these are sitting empty and derelict, are sitting empty and derelict, sometimes are sitting empty and derelict, sometimes for are sitting empty and derelict, sometimes for up are sitting empty and derelict, sometimes for up to are sitting empty and derelict, sometimes for up to years are sitting empty and derelict, sometimes for up to years at are sitting empty and derelict, sometimes for up to years at a are sitting empty and derelict, sometimes for up to years at a time. sometimes for up to years at a time. Empty, sometimes for up to years at a time. Empty, derelict sometimes for up to years at a time. Empty, derelict buildings sometimes for up to years at a time. Empty, derelict buildings can sometimes for up to years at a time. Empty, derelict buildings can be Empty, derelict buildings can be dangerous, Empty, derelict buildings can be dangerous, but Empty, derelict buildings can be dangerous, but they Empty, derelict buildings can be dangerous, but they are Empty, derelict buildings can be dangerous, but they are also Empty, derelict buildings can be dangerous, but they are also a dangerous, but they are also a handbrake dangerous, but they are also a handbrake on dangerous, but they are also a handbrake on growth dangerous, but they are also a handbrake on growth and dangerous, but they are also a handbrake on growth and development, handbrake on growth and development, and handbrake on growth and development, and can handbrake on growth and development, and can suck handbrake on growth and development, and can suck the handbrake on growth and development, and can suck the life handbrake on growth and development, and can suck the life out handbrake on growth and development, and can suck the life out of handbrake on growth and development, and can suck the life out of a handbrake on growth and development, and can suck the life out of a town and can suck the life out of a town or and can suck the life out of a town or city. and can suck the life out of a town or city. The and can suck the life out of a town or city. The Government and can suck the life out of a town or city. The Government has and can suck the life out of a town or city. The Government has focused or city. The Government has focused on or city. The Government has focused on reinvigorating or city. The Government has focused on reinvigorating our or city. The Government has focused on reinvigorating our cities or city. The Government has focused on reinvigorating our cities and on reinvigorating our cities and regions on reinvigorating our cities and regions to on reinvigorating our cities and regions to support on reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic on reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth. regions to support economic growth. To regions to support economic growth. To do regions to support economic growth. To do this, regions to support economic growth. To do this, we regions to support economic growth. To do this, we need regions to support economic growth. To do this, we need an regions to support economic growth. To do this, we need an earthquake To do this, we need an earthquake system To do this, we need an earthquake system that To do this, we need an earthquake system that balances To do this, we need an earthquake system that balances safety To do this, we need an earthquake system that balances safety of To do this, we need an earthquake system that balances safety of life system that balances safety of life with system that balances safety of life with the system that balances safety of life with the real-world system that balances safety of life with the real-world costs system that balances safety of life with the real-world costs and with the real-world costs and barriers with the real-world costs and barriers of with the real-world costs and barriers of remediating barriers of remediating earthquake-prone barriers of remediating earthquake-prone buildings. barriers of remediating earthquake-prone buildings. That barriers of remediating earthquake-prone buildings. That is earthquake-prone buildings. That is why earthquake-prone buildings. That is why we earthquake-prone buildings. That is why we have earthquake-prone buildings. That is why we have commenced earthquake-prone buildings. That is why we have commenced a earthquake-prone buildings. That is why we have commenced a review earthquake-prone buildings. That is why we have commenced a review into why we have commenced a review into the why we have commenced a review into the earthquake-prone why we have commenced a review into the earthquake-prone buildings the earthquake-prone buildings system. the earthquake-prone buildings system. The the earthquake-prone buildings system. The review the earthquake-prone buildings system. The review aims the earthquake-prone buildings system. The review aims to the earthquake-prone buildings system. The review aims to provide system. The review aims to provide building system. The review aims to provide building owners system. The review aims to provide building owners with system. The review aims to provide building owners with more system. The review aims to provide building owners with more certainty building owners with more certainty and building owners with more certainty and better building owners with more certainty and better incentivisation building owners with more certainty and better incentivisation to and better incentivisation to remediate and better incentivisation to remediate or and better incentivisation to remediate or demolish and better incentivisation to remediate or demolish their remediate or demolish their earthquake-prone remediate or demolish their earthquake-prone buildings remediate or demolish their earthquake-prone buildings so remediate or demolish their earthquake-prone buildings so that earthquake-prone buildings so that Kiwis earthquake-prone buildings so that Kiwis can earthquake-prone buildings so that Kiwis can safely earthquake-prone buildings so that Kiwis can safely live, earthquake-prone buildings so that Kiwis can safely live, worth earthquake-prone buildings so that Kiwis can safely live, worth and Kiwis can safely live, worth and play Kiwis can safely live, worth and play in Kiwis can safely live, worth and play in vibrant Kiwis can safely live, worth and play in vibrant towns Kiwis can safely live, worth and play in vibrant towns and Kiwis can safely live, worth and play in vibrant towns and cities. Kiwis can safely live, worth and play in vibrant towns and cities. I play in vibrant towns and cities. I do play in vibrant towns and cities. I do want play in vibrant towns and cities. I do want to play in vibrant towns and cities. I do want to acknowledge play in vibrant towns and cities. I do want to acknowledge the play in vibrant towns and cities. I do want to acknowledge the history do want to acknowledge the history of do want to acknowledge the history of the do want to acknowledge the history of the legislation do want to acknowledge the history of the legislation that do want to acknowledge the history of the legislation that is do want to acknowledge the history of the legislation that is being of the legislation that is being amended, of the legislation that is being amended, most of the legislation that is being amended, most particularly of the legislation that is being amended, most particularly to amended, most particularly to acknowledge amended, most particularly to acknowledge the amended, most particularly to acknowledge the tragedy amended, most particularly to acknowledge the tragedy of amended, most particularly to acknowledge the tragedy of the amended, most particularly to acknowledge the tragedy of the lives acknowledge the tragedy of the lives lost acknowledge the tragedy of the lives lost in acknowledge the tragedy of the lives lost in the acknowledge the tragedy of the lives lost in the Canterbury acknowledge the tragedy of the lives lost in the Canterbury earthquakes, lost in the Canterbury earthquakes, and lost in the Canterbury earthquakes, and of lost in the Canterbury earthquakes, and of course lost in the Canterbury earthquakes, and of course earthquakes lost in the Canterbury earthquakes, and of course earthquakes in lost in the Canterbury earthquakes, and of course earthquakes in this and of course earthquakes in this country and of course earthquakes in this country prior and of course earthquakes in this country prior to and of course earthquakes in this country prior to that and of course earthquakes in this country prior to that time and of course earthquakes in this country prior to that time - and of course earthquakes in this country prior to that time - and, and of course earthquakes in this country prior to that time - and, of country prior to that time - and, of course, country prior to that time - and, of course, those country prior to that time - and, of course, those that country prior to that time - and, of course, those that have country prior to that time - and, of course, those that have happened course, those that have happened since, course, those that have happened since, and course, those that have happened since, and no course, those that have happened since, and no doubt course, those that have happened since, and no doubt will course, those that have happened since, and no doubt will continue course, those that have happened since, and no doubt will continue to since, and no doubt will continue to afflict since, and no doubt will continue to afflict our since, and no doubt will continue to afflict our shaky since, and no doubt will continue to afflict our shaky isles. since, and no doubt will continue to afflict our shaky isles. These since, and no doubt will continue to afflict our shaky isles. These are afflict our shaky isles. These are not afflict our shaky isles. These are not easy afflict our shaky isles. These are not easy matters afflict our shaky isles. These are not easy matters and, afflict our shaky isles. These are not easy matters and, of afflict our shaky isles. These are not easy matters and, of course, afflict our shaky isles. These are not easy matters and, of course, we not easy matters and, of course, we need not easy matters and, of course, we need to not easy matters and, of course, we need to take not easy matters and, of course, we need to take a not easy matters and, of course, we need to take a balanced, not easy matters and, of course, we need to take a balanced, nuanced need to take a balanced, nuanced approach, need to take a balanced, nuanced approach, and need to take a balanced, nuanced approach, and I need to take a balanced, nuanced approach, and I acknowledge need to take a balanced, nuanced approach, and I acknowledge all approach, and I acknowledge all those approach, and I acknowledge all those in approach, and I acknowledge all those in this approach, and I acknowledge all those in this House approach, and I acknowledge all those in this House who, approach, and I acknowledge all those in this House who, in approach, and I acknowledge all those in this House who, in previous those in this House who, in previous capacities those in this House who, in previous capacities and those in this House who, in previous capacities and those those in this House who, in previous capacities and those in those in this House who, in previous capacities and those in the capacities and those in the communities capacities and those in the communities who capacities and those in the communities who have capacities and those in the communities who have worked capacities and those in the communities who have worked hard capacities and those in the communities who have worked hard to communities who have worked hard to provide communities who have worked hard to provide as communities who have worked hard to provide as much communities who have worked hard to provide as much assurance communities who have worked hard to provide as much assurance and provide as much assurance and comfort provide as much assurance and comfort and, provide as much assurance and comfort and, of provide as much assurance and comfort and, of course, provide as much assurance and comfort and, of course, work comfort and, of course, work diligently comfort and, of course, work diligently in comfort and, of course, work diligently in good comfort and, of course, work diligently in good faith comfort and, of course, work diligently in good faith to comfort and, of course, work diligently in good faith to provide diligently in good faith to provide the diligently in good faith to provide the best diligently in good faith to provide the best possible diligently in good faith to provide the best possible system diligently in good faith to provide the best possible system that diligently in good faith to provide the best possible system that we the best possible system that we could the best possible system that we could have the best possible system that we could have in the best possible system that we could have in this the best possible system that we could have in this regard. the best possible system that we could have in this regard. And the best possible system that we could have in this regard. And I could have in this regard. And I acknowledge could have in this regard. And I acknowledge those could have in this regard. And I acknowledge those who could have in this regard. And I acknowledge those who already could have in this regard. And I acknowledge those who already have acknowledge those who already have constructively acknowledge those who already have constructively engaged acknowledge those who already have constructively engaged on acknowledge those who already have constructively engaged on the constructively engaged on the subject, constructively engaged on the subject, be constructively engaged on the subject, be it constructively engaged on the subject, be it in constructively engaged on the subject, be it in central constructively engaged on the subject, be it in central government subject, be it in central government - subject, be it in central government - including subject, be it in central government - including across subject, be it in central government - including across the subject, be it in central government - including across the aisle subject, be it in central government - including across the aisle - subject, be it in central government - including across the aisle - in - including across the aisle - in local - including across the aisle - in local government - including across the aisle - in local government too, - including across the aisle - in local government too, and - including across the aisle - in local government too, and owners - including across the aisle - in local government too, and owners and local government too, and owners and other local government too, and owners and other key local government too, and owners and other key players local government too, and owners and other key players in local government too, and owners and other key players in civil local government too, and owners and other key players in civil society other key players in civil society throughout other key players in civil society throughout this other key players in civil society throughout this land. other key players in civil society throughout this land. Having other key players in civil society throughout this land. Having said throughout this land. Having said all throughout this land. Having said all that, throughout this land. Having said all that, the throughout this land. Having said all that, the current throughout this land. Having said all that, the current system all that, the current system attempts all that, the current system attempts to all that, the current system attempts to manage all that, the current system attempts to manage risk all that, the current system attempts to manage risk - all that, the current system attempts to manage risk - and all that, the current system attempts to manage risk - and in attempts to manage risk - and in some attempts to manage risk - and in some cases attempts to manage risk - and in some cases does attempts to manage risk - and in some cases does successfully attempts to manage risk - and in some cases does successfully manage some cases does successfully manage risk some cases does successfully manage risk - some cases does successfully manage risk - by some cases does successfully manage risk - by requiring some cases does successfully manage risk - by requiring earthquake-prone risk - by requiring earthquake-prone billings risk - by requiring earthquake-prone billings to risk - by requiring earthquake-prone billings to be risk - by requiring earthquake-prone billings to be remediated risk - by requiring earthquake-prone billings to be remediated before risk - by requiring earthquake-prone billings to be remediated before set billings to be remediated before set deadlines. billings to be remediated before set deadlines. However, billings to be remediated before set deadlines. However, in billings to be remediated before set deadlines. However, in some billings to be remediated before set deadlines. However, in some cases deadlines. However, in some cases the deadlines. However, in some cases the system deadlines. However, in some cases the system is deadlines. However, in some cases the system is not deadlines. However, in some cases the system is not working deadlines. However, in some cases the system is not working as deadlines. However, in some cases the system is not working as well deadlines. However, in some cases the system is not working as well as the system is not working as well as had the system is not working as well as had been the system is not working as well as had been hoped, the system is not working as well as had been hoped, and the system is not working as well as had been hoped, and the the system is not working as well as had been hoped, and the reality the system is not working as well as had been hoped, and the reality then had been hoped, and the reality then is had been hoped, and the reality then is that had been hoped, and the reality then is that many had been hoped, and the reality then is that many buildings had been hoped, and the reality then is that many buildings are had been hoped, and the reality then is that many buildings are not had been hoped, and the reality then is that many buildings are not able is that many buildings are not able to is that many buildings are not able to be is that many buildings are not able to be remediated. is that many buildings are not able to be remediated. Around is that many buildings are not able to be remediated. Around 150 to be remediated. Around 150 buildings to be remediated. Around 150 buildings have to be remediated. Around 150 buildings have already to be remediated. Around 150 buildings have already failed to be remediated. Around 150 buildings have already failed to buildings have already failed to meet buildings have already failed to meet the buildings have already failed to meet the remediation buildings have already failed to meet the remediation deadlines, buildings have already failed to meet the remediation deadlines, and meet the remediation deadlines, and many meet the remediation deadlines, and many more meet the remediation deadlines, and many more are meet the remediation deadlines, and many more are unlikely meet the remediation deadlines, and many more are unlikely to meet the remediation deadlines, and many more are unlikely to be many more are unlikely to be remediated, many more are unlikely to be remediated, I'm many more are unlikely to be remediated, I'm told, many more are unlikely to be remediated, I'm told, sir, many more are unlikely to be remediated, I'm told, sir, due many more are unlikely to be remediated, I'm told, sir, due to remediated, I'm told, sir, due to high remediated, I'm told, sir, due to high seismic remediated, I'm told, sir, due to high seismic strengthening remediated, I'm told, sir, due to high seismic strengthening costs remediated, I'm told, sir, due to high seismic strengthening costs and high seismic strengthening costs and other high seismic strengthening costs and other barriers. high seismic strengthening costs and other barriers. The high seismic strengthening costs and other barriers. The Government's other barriers. The Government's review other barriers. The Government's review into other barriers. The Government's review into managing other barriers. The Government's review into managing seismic other barriers. The Government's review into managing seismic risk review into managing seismic risk will review into managing seismic risk will take review into managing seismic risk will take a review into managing seismic risk will take a fresh review into managing seismic risk will take a fresh look review into managing seismic risk will take a fresh look at review into managing seismic risk will take a fresh look at the will take a fresh look at the system, will take a fresh look at the system, but will take a fresh look at the system, but in will take a fresh look at the system, but in the will take a fresh look at the system, but in the meantime will take a fresh look at the system, but in the meantime there system, but in the meantime there are system, but in the meantime there are nearly system, but in the meantime there are nearly 500 system, but in the meantime there are nearly 500 buildings system, but in the meantime there are nearly 500 buildings with are nearly 500 buildings with deadlines are nearly 500 buildings with deadlines rapidly are nearly 500 buildings with deadlines rapidly approaching. are nearly 500 buildings with deadlines rapidly approaching. While deadlines rapidly approaching. While this deadlines rapidly approaching. While this review deadlines rapidly approaching. While this review is deadlines rapidly approaching. While this review is underway, deadlines rapidly approaching. While this review is underway, it deadlines rapidly approaching. While this review is underway, it seems deadlines rapidly approaching. While this review is underway, it seems to this review is underway, it seems to me, this review is underway, it seems to me, sir, this review is underway, it seems to me, sir, only this review is underway, it seems to me, sir, only fair this review is underway, it seems to me, sir, only fair that this review is underway, it seems to me, sir, only fair that we this review is underway, it seems to me, sir, only fair that we extend me, sir, only fair that we extend the me, sir, only fair that we extend the remediation me, sir, only fair that we extend the remediation deadline me, sir, only fair that we extend the remediation deadline for me, sir, only fair that we extend the remediation deadline for these the remediation deadline for these buildings. the remediation deadline for these buildings. I'd the remediation deadline for these buildings. I'd like the remediation deadline for these buildings. I'd like to the remediation deadline for these buildings. I'd like to provide buildings. I'd like to provide clarity buildings. I'd like to provide clarity and buildings. I'd like to provide clarity and certainty buildings. I'd like to provide clarity and certainty to buildings. I'd like to provide clarity and certainty to building clarity and certainty to building owners clarity and certainty to building owners and clarity and certainty to building owners and territorial clarity and certainty to building owners and territorial authorities owners and territorial authorities about owners and territorial authorities about their owners and territorial authorities about their obligations. owners and territorial authorities about their obligations. Local about their obligations. Local councils about their obligations. Local councils themselves about their obligations. Local councils themselves often about their obligations. Local councils themselves often being councils themselves often being owners councils themselves often being owners of councils themselves often being owners of such councils themselves often being owners of such buildings, councils themselves often being owners of such buildings, of councils themselves often being owners of such buildings, of course, owners of such buildings, of course, while owners of such buildings, of course, while the owners of such buildings, of course, while the review owners of such buildings, of course, while the review and owners of such buildings, of course, while the review and any owners of such buildings, of course, while the review and any subsequent while the review and any subsequent changes while the review and any subsequent changes take while the review and any subsequent changes take place. while the review and any subsequent changes take place. Of while the review and any subsequent changes take place. Of course, while the review and any subsequent changes take place. Of course, we changes take place. Of course, we don't changes take place. Of course, we don't prejudge changes take place. Of course, we don't prejudge the changes take place. Of course, we don't prejudge the result changes take place. Of course, we don't prejudge the result of changes take place. Of course, we don't prejudge the result of that don't prejudge the result of that review, don't prejudge the result of that review, but don't prejudge the result of that review, but we don't prejudge the result of that review, but we hope, don't prejudge the result of that review, but we hope, of don't prejudge the result of that review, but we hope, of course, don't prejudge the result of that review, but we hope, of course, that review, but we hope, of course, that we review, but we hope, of course, that we will review, but we hope, of course, that we will receive review, but we hope, of course, that we will receive many review, but we hope, of course, that we will receive many sensible we will receive many sensible suggestions we will receive many sensible suggestions for we will receive many sensible suggestions for change we will receive many sensible suggestions for change that we will receive many sensible suggestions for change that might we will receive many sensible suggestions for change that might be suggestions for change that might be made suggestions for change that might be made as suggestions for change that might be made as a suggestions for change that might be made as a result suggestions for change that might be made as a result of suggestions for change that might be made as a result of the suggestions for change that might be made as a result of the review. suggestions for change that might be made as a result of the review. To made as a result of the review. To achieve made as a result of the review. To achieve this, made as a result of the review. To achieve this, in made as a result of the review. To achieve this, in the made as a result of the review. To achieve this, in the meantime, made as a result of the review. To achieve this, in the meantime, the achieve this, in the meantime, the bill, achieve this, in the meantime, the bill, once achieve this, in the meantime, the bill, once it achieve this, in the meantime, the bill, once it has achieve this, in the meantime, the bill, once it has passed achieve this, in the meantime, the bill, once it has passed into achieve this, in the meantime, the bill, once it has passed into law, achieve this, in the meantime, the bill, once it has passed into law, I bill, once it has passed into law, I hasten bill, once it has passed into law, I hasten to bill, once it has passed into law, I hasten to add, bill, once it has passed into law, I hasten to add, will bill, once it has passed into law, I hasten to add, will extend bill, once it has passed into law, I hasten to add, will extend to bill, once it has passed into law, I hasten to add, will extend to add bill, once it has passed into law, I hasten to add, will extend to add by hasten to add, will extend to add by four hasten to add, will extend to add by four years hasten to add, will extend to add by four years all hasten to add, will extend to add by four years all earthquake-prone four years all earthquake-prone remediation four years all earthquake-prone remediation building four years all earthquake-prone remediation building deadlines four years all earthquake-prone remediation building deadlines that remediation building deadlines that had remediation building deadlines that had not remediation building deadlines that had not lapsed remediation building deadlines that had not lapsed before remediation building deadlines that had not lapsed before 2 remediation building deadlines that had not lapsed before 2 April remediation building deadlines that had not lapsed before 2 April 2024, had not lapsed before 2 April 2024, being had not lapsed before 2 April 2024, being the had not lapsed before 2 April 2024, being the date had not lapsed before 2 April 2024, being the date at had not lapsed before 2 April 2024, being the date at which had not lapsed before 2 April 2024, being the date at which the had not lapsed before 2 April 2024, being the date at which the Cabinet being the date at which the Cabinet decision being the date at which the Cabinet decision was being the date at which the Cabinet decision was made being the date at which the Cabinet decision was made that being the date at which the Cabinet decision was made that this being the date at which the Cabinet decision was made that this measure decision was made that this measure should decision was made that this measure should be decision was made that this measure should be brought decision was made that this measure should be brought to decision was made that this measure should be brought to the decision was made that this measure should be brought to the House. decision was made that this measure should be brought to the House. The should be brought to the House. The extension should be brought to the House. The extension will should be brought to the House. The extension will provide should be brought to the House. The extension will provide temporary extension will provide temporary relief extension will provide temporary relief from extension will provide temporary relief from legal extension will provide temporary relief from legal compliance extension will provide temporary relief from legal compliance and extension will provide temporary relief from legal compliance and the relief from legal compliance and the threat relief from legal compliance and the threat of relief from legal compliance and the threat of enforcement relief from legal compliance and the threat of enforcement while relief from legal compliance and the threat of enforcement while we relief from legal compliance and the threat of enforcement while we work threat of enforcement while we work through threat of enforcement while we work through the threat of enforcement while we work through the review. threat of enforcement while we work through the review. That threat of enforcement while we work through the review. That being threat of enforcement while we work through the review. That being said, through the review. That being said, of through the review. That being said, of course, through the review. That being said, of course, building through the review. That being said, of course, building owners through the review. That being said, of course, building owners who through the review. That being said, of course, building owners who are of course, building owners who are able of course, building owners who are able to of course, building owners who are able to carry of course, building owners who are able to carry out of course, building owners who are able to carry out remediation of course, building owners who are able to carry out remediation work able to carry out remediation work are able to carry out remediation work are encouraged able to carry out remediation work are encouraged to able to carry out remediation work are encouraged to get able to carry out remediation work are encouraged to get on able to carry out remediation work are encouraged to get on and able to carry out remediation work are encouraged to get on and do are encouraged to get on and do this. are encouraged to get on and do this. And are encouraged to get on and do this. And of are encouraged to get on and do this. And of course, are encouraged to get on and do this. And of course, we are encouraged to get on and do this. And of course, we acknowledge this. And of course, we acknowledge there this. And of course, we acknowledge there are this. And of course, we acknowledge there are motivations this. And of course, we acknowledge there are motivations outside this. And of course, we acknowledge there are motivations outside the there are motivations outside the remit there are motivations outside the remit of there are motivations outside the remit of government, there are motivations outside the remit of government, be there are motivations outside the remit of government, be it there are motivations outside the remit of government, be it remit remit of government, be it remit requirements remit of government, be it remit requirements or remit of government, be it remit requirements or insurance requirements or insurance obligations, requirements or insurance obligations, or requirements or insurance obligations, or obligations requirements or insurance obligations, or obligations on requirements or insurance obligations, or obligations on a obligations, or obligations on a landlord obligations, or obligations on a landlord in obligations, or obligations on a landlord in relation obligations, or obligations on a landlord in relation to obligations, or obligations on a landlord in relation to tenants, obligations, or obligations on a landlord in relation to tenants, and landlord in relation to tenants, and health landlord in relation to tenants, and health and landlord in relation to tenants, and health and safety landlord in relation to tenants, and health and safety legislation landlord in relation to tenants, and health and safety legislation and landlord in relation to tenants, and health and safety legislation and so health and safety legislation and so on, health and safety legislation and so on, that health and safety legislation and so on, that would health and safety legislation and so on, that would encourage health and safety legislation and so on, that would encourage people health and safety legislation and so on, that would encourage people to on, that would encourage people to get on, that would encourage people to get on on, that would encourage people to get on and on, that would encourage people to get on and do on, that would encourage people to get on and do work on, that would encourage people to get on and do work that on, that would encourage people to get on and do work that they on, that would encourage people to get on and do work that they are get on and do work that they are able get on and do work that they are able to get on and do work that they are able to do. get on and do work that they are able to do. The get on and do work that they are able to do. The bill get on and do work that they are able to do. The bill also get on and do work that they are able to do. The bill also introduces able to do. The bill also introduces a able to do. The bill also introduces a one-off able to do. The bill also introduces a one-off power able to do. The bill also introduces a one-off power to able to do. The bill also introduces a one-off power to extend able to do. The bill also introduces a one-off power to extend deadlines a one-off power to extend deadlines by a one-off power to extend deadlines by up a one-off power to extend deadlines by up to a one-off power to extend deadlines by up to two a one-off power to extend deadlines by up to two years a one-off power to extend deadlines by up to two years - a one-off power to extend deadlines by up to two years - a a one-off power to extend deadlines by up to two years - a further a one-off power to extend deadlines by up to two years - a further two by up to two years - a further two years by up to two years - a further two years - by up to two years - a further two years - by by up to two years - a further two years - by Order by up to two years - a further two years - by Order in by up to two years - a further two years - by Order in Council. years - by Order in Council. However, years - by Order in Council. However, there years - by Order in Council. However, there are years - by Order in Council. However, there are some years - by Order in Council. However, there are some controls However, there are some controls around However, there are some controls around the However, there are some controls around the use However, there are some controls around the use of However, there are some controls around the use of this However, there are some controls around the use of this power. However, there are some controls around the use of this power. I around the use of this power. I acknowledge around the use of this power. I acknowledge that around the use of this power. I acknowledge that the around the use of this power. I acknowledge that the extension around the use of this power. I acknowledge that the extension means acknowledge that the extension means that acknowledge that the extension means that it acknowledge that the extension means that it is acknowledge that the extension means that it is theoretically acknowledge that the extension means that it is theoretically possible that it is theoretically possible that that it is theoretically possible that life that it is theoretically possible that life safety that it is theoretically possible that life safety risk that it is theoretically possible that life safety risk in that it is theoretically possible that life safety risk in some that life safety risk in some buildings that life safety risk in some buildings won't that life safety risk in some buildings won't be that life safety risk in some buildings won't be addressed that life safety risk in some buildings won't be addressed as buildings won't be addressed as quickly buildings won't be addressed as quickly as buildings won't be addressed as quickly as originally buildings won't be addressed as quickly as originally intended. quickly as originally intended. However, quickly as originally intended. However, I quickly as originally intended. However, I do quickly as originally intended. However, I do think quickly as originally intended. However, I do think it quickly as originally intended. However, I do think it is quickly as originally intended. However, I do think it is very However, I do think it is very important However, I do think it is very important to However, I do think it is very important to stress, However, I do think it is very important to stress, in However, I do think it is very important to stress, in the However, I do think it is very important to stress, in the same important to stress, in the same breath, important to stress, in the same breath, that important to stress, in the same breath, that in important to stress, in the same breath, that in many important to stress, in the same breath, that in many cases important to stress, in the same breath, that in many cases these breath, that in many cases these buildings breath, that in many cases these buildings are breath, that in many cases these buildings are not breath, that in many cases these buildings are not being breath, that in many cases these buildings are not being remediated buildings are not being remediated anyway. buildings are not being remediated anyway. The buildings are not being remediated anyway. The simple buildings are not being remediated anyway. The simple fact buildings are not being remediated anyway. The simple fact is buildings are not being remediated anyway. The simple fact is that anyway. The simple fact is that building anyway. The simple fact is that building owners anyway. The simple fact is that building owners face anyway. The simple fact is that building owners face difficulties building owners face difficulties that, building owners face difficulties that, for building owners face difficulties that, for some, building owners face difficulties that, for some, are building owners face difficulties that, for some, are so building owners face difficulties that, for some, are so great building owners face difficulties that, for some, are so great that that, for some, are so great that even that, for some, are so great that even under that, for some, are so great that even under the that, for some, are so great that even under the existing that, for some, are so great that even under the existing timeframes, even under the existing timeframes, building even under the existing timeframes, building uses even under the existing timeframes, building uses would even under the existing timeframes, building uses would likely even under the existing timeframes, building uses would likely have even under the existing timeframes, building uses would likely have been building uses would likely have been exposed building uses would likely have been exposed to building uses would likely have been exposed to some building uses would likely have been exposed to some of building uses would likely have been exposed to some of those building uses would likely have been exposed to some of those exact building uses would likely have been exposed to some of those exact same exposed to some of those exact same risks exposed to some of those exact same risks in exposed to some of those exact same risks in any exposed to some of those exact same risks in any case. exposed to some of those exact same risks in any case. Once exposed to some of those exact same risks in any case. Once the risks in any case. Once the Amendment risks in any case. Once the Amendment Act risks in any case. Once the Amendment Act comes risks in any case. Once the Amendment Act comes into risks in any case. Once the Amendment Act comes into effect, risks in any case. Once the Amendment Act comes into effect, the Amendment Act comes into effect, the extension Amendment Act comes into effect, the extension will Amendment Act comes into effect, the extension will apply Amendment Act comes into effect, the extension will apply automatically extension will apply automatically to extension will apply automatically to eligible extension will apply automatically to eligible buildings. extension will apply automatically to eligible buildings. I extension will apply automatically to eligible buildings. I should to eligible buildings. I should qualify to eligible buildings. I should qualify that to eligible buildings. I should qualify that point to eligible buildings. I should qualify that point around to eligible buildings. I should qualify that point around a qualify that point around a automatic qualify that point around a automatic status qualify that point around a automatic status boy qualify that point around a automatic status boy adding qualify that point around a automatic status boy adding that automatic status boy adding that territorial automatic status boy adding that territorial authorities automatic status boy adding that territorial authorities will automatic status boy adding that territorial authorities will be territorial authorities will be required territorial authorities will be required to territorial authorities will be required to reissue territorial authorities will be required to reissue earthquake-prone required to reissue earthquake-prone buildings required to reissue earthquake-prone buildings notices required to reissue earthquake-prone buildings notices to required to reissue earthquake-prone buildings notices to all required to reissue earthquake-prone buildings notices to all eligible buildings notices to all eligible buildings buildings notices to all eligible buildings and buildings notices to all eligible buildings and to buildings notices to all eligible buildings and to update buildings notices to all eligible buildings and to update the buildings notices to all eligible buildings and to update the register buildings and to update the register of buildings and to update the register of earthquake-prone buildings and to update the register of earthquake-prone buildings. of earthquake-prone buildings. Passing of earthquake-prone buildings. Passing to of earthquake-prone buildings. Passing to the of earthquake-prone buildings. Passing to the other of earthquake-prone buildings. Passing to the other matters of earthquake-prone buildings. Passing to the other matters in of earthquake-prone buildings. Passing to the other matters in the Passing to the other matters in the bill, Passing to the other matters in the bill, sir, Passing to the other matters in the bill, sir, for Passing to the other matters in the bill, sir, for the Passing to the other matters in the bill, sir, for the remainder Passing to the other matters in the bill, sir, for the remainder of Passing to the other matters in the bill, sir, for the remainder of my bill, sir, for the remainder of my time. bill, sir, for the remainder of my time. Strengthening bill, sir, for the remainder of my time. Strengthening the bill, sir, for the remainder of my time. Strengthening the building time. Strengthening the building warrant time. Strengthening the building warrant fitness time. Strengthening the building warrant fitness system time. Strengthening the building warrant fitness system or time. Strengthening the building warrant fitness system or scheme, warrant fitness system or scheme, following warrant fitness system or scheme, following last warrant fitness system or scheme, following last year's warrant fitness system or scheme, following last year's devastating following last year's devastating fatal following last year's devastating fatal Loafers' following last year's devastating fatal Loafers' Lodge following last year's devastating fatal Loafers' Lodge fire, fatal Loafers' Lodge fire, acknowledging fatal Loafers' Lodge fire, acknowledging the fatal Loafers' Lodge fire, acknowledging the tragedy fatal Loafers' Lodge fire, acknowledging the tragedy of fatal Loafers' Lodge fire, acknowledging the tragedy of those acknowledging the tragedy of those lives acknowledging the tragedy of those lives lost, acknowledging the tragedy of those lives lost, the acknowledging the tragedy of those lives lost, the Cabinet acknowledging the tragedy of those lives lost, the Cabinet set acknowledging the tragedy of those lives lost, the Cabinet set off acknowledging the tragedy of those lives lost, the Cabinet set off a lives lost, the Cabinet set off a no-regrets lives lost, the Cabinet set off a no-regrets actions lives lost, the Cabinet set off a no-regrets actions to lives lost, the Cabinet set off a no-regrets actions to improve lives lost, the Cabinet set off a no-regrets actions to improve fire no-regrets actions to improve fire safety no-regrets actions to improve fire safety in no-regrets actions to improve fire safety in buildings. no-regrets actions to improve fire safety in buildings. That no-regrets actions to improve fire safety in buildings. That means no-regrets actions to improve fire safety in buildings. That means that safety in buildings. That means that some safety in buildings. That means that some changes safety in buildings. That means that some changes that safety in buildings. That means that some changes that could safety in buildings. That means that some changes that could be safety in buildings. That means that some changes that could be made some changes that could be made relatively some changes that could be made relatively readily some changes that could be made relatively readily could some changes that could be made relatively readily could be some changes that could be made relatively readily could be made, relatively readily could be made, without relatively readily could be made, without suggesting relatively readily could be made, without suggesting that relatively readily could be made, without suggesting that other without suggesting that other changes without suggesting that other changes should without suggesting that other changes should not without suggesting that other changes should not be without suggesting that other changes should not be contemplated changes should not be contemplated as changes should not be contemplated as well. changes should not be contemplated as well. I'll changes should not be contemplated as well. I'll touch changes should not be contemplated as well. I'll touch on changes should not be contemplated as well. I'll touch on those changes should not be contemplated as well. I'll touch on those briefly as well. I'll touch on those briefly if as well. I'll touch on those briefly if I as well. I'll touch on those briefly if I may, as well. I'll touch on those briefly if I may, within as well. I'll touch on those briefly if I may, within the as well. I'll touch on those briefly if I may, within the time as well. I'll touch on those briefly if I may, within the time available. if I may, within the time available. In if I may, within the time available. In the if I may, within the time available. In the meantime, if I may, within the time available. In the meantime, though, if I may, within the time available. In the meantime, though, this if I may, within the time available. In the meantime, though, this bill In the meantime, though, this bill will In the meantime, though, this bill will implement In the meantime, though, this bill will implement sensible In the meantime, though, this bill will implement sensible changes In the meantime, though, this bill will implement sensible changes to will implement sensible changes to help will implement sensible changes to help protect will implement sensible changes to help protect the will implement sensible changes to help protect the safety will implement sensible changes to help protect the safety of will implement sensible changes to help protect the safety of building help protect the safety of building occupants, help protect the safety of building occupants, including help protect the safety of building occupants, including in help protect the safety of building occupants, including in an occupants, including in an emergency. occupants, including in an emergency. Some occupants, including in an emergency. Some of occupants, including in an emergency. Some of these occupants, including in an emergency. Some of these occupants emergency. Some of these occupants will emergency. Some of these occupants will be emergency. Some of these occupants will be vulnerable emergency. Some of these occupants will be vulnerable people emergency. Some of these occupants will be vulnerable people living emergency. Some of these occupants will be vulnerable people living in will be vulnerable people living in temporary will be vulnerable people living in temporary or will be vulnerable people living in temporary or low-cost temporary or low-cost boardinghouse-type temporary or low-cost boardinghouse-type accommodation. temporary or low-cost boardinghouse-type accommodation. A boardinghouse-type accommodation. A building boardinghouse-type accommodation. A building warranter boardinghouse-type accommodation. A building warranter fitness boardinghouse-type accommodation. A building warranter fitness must building warranter fitness must include building warranter fitness must include a building warranter fitness must include a certificate building warranter fitness must include a certificate issued building warranter fitness must include a certificate issued by building warranter fitness must include a certificate issued by an include a certificate issued by an independently include a certificate issued by an independently qualified include a certificate issued by an independently qualified person include a certificate issued by an independently qualified person - independently qualified person - I'll independently qualified person - I'll say independently qualified person - I'll say IQP independently qualified person - I'll say IQP going independently qualified person - I'll say IQP going forward independently qualified person - I'll say IQP going forward - independently qualified person - I'll say IQP going forward - known I'll say IQP going forward - known as I'll say IQP going forward - known as a I'll say IQP going forward - known as a Form I'll say IQP going forward - known as a Form 12A. I'll say IQP going forward - known as a Form 12A. There I'll say IQP going forward - known as a Form 12A. There are I'll say IQP going forward - known as a Form 12A. There are many I'll say IQP going forward - known as a Form 12A. There are many people as a Form 12A. There are many people working as a Form 12A. There are many people working hard as a Form 12A. There are many people working hard and as a Form 12A. There are many people working hard and diligently as a Form 12A. There are many people working hard and diligently in as a Form 12A. There are many people working hard and diligently in this working hard and diligently in this way, working hard and diligently in this way, and working hard and diligently in this way, and I working hard and diligently in this way, and I want working hard and diligently in this way, and I want to working hard and diligently in this way, and I want to acknowledge working hard and diligently in this way, and I want to acknowledge the way, and I want to acknowledge the Association way, and I want to acknowledge the Association of way, and I want to acknowledge the Association of Building way, and I want to acknowledge the Association of Building Compliance Association of Building Compliance ask Association of Building Compliance ask the Association of Building Compliance ask the work Association of Building Compliance ask the work they Association of Building Compliance ask the work they are Association of Building Compliance ask the work they are doing Association of Building Compliance ask the work they are doing to Association of Building Compliance ask the work they are doing to help ask the work they are doing to help educate, ask the work they are doing to help educate, advocate, ask the work they are doing to help educate, advocate, and ask the work they are doing to help educate, advocate, and ensure educate, advocate, and ensure certainty educate, advocate, and ensure certainty and educate, advocate, and ensure certainty and consistency educate, advocate, and ensure certainty and consistency for educate, advocate, and ensure certainty and consistency for that certainty and consistency for that system. certainty and consistency for that system. I certainty and consistency for that system. I commit certainty and consistency for that system. I commit to certainty and consistency for that system. I commit to working certainty and consistency for that system. I commit to working closely system. I commit to working closely with system. I commit to working closely with all system. I commit to working closely with all those system. I commit to working closely with all those who system. I commit to working closely with all those who share system. I commit to working closely with all those who share the system. I commit to working closely with all those who share the aims system. I commit to working closely with all those who share the aims of with all those who share the aims of ensuring with all those who share the aims of ensuring we with all those who share the aims of ensuring we have with all those who share the aims of ensuring we have good, with all those who share the aims of ensuring we have good, robust ensuring we have good, robust qualifications ensuring we have good, robust qualifications in ensuring we have good, robust qualifications in recognition ensuring we have good, robust qualifications in recognition of qualifications in recognition of people qualifications in recognition of people who qualifications in recognition of people who have qualifications in recognition of people who have that qualifications in recognition of people who have that level qualifications in recognition of people who have that level of people who have that level of expertise, people who have that level of expertise, important people who have that level of expertise, important as people who have that level of expertise, important as it people who have that level of expertise, important as it is. expertise, important as it is. People expertise, important as it is. People within expertise, important as it is. People within the expertise, important as it is. People within the building expertise, important as it is. People within the building industry, People within the building industry, therefore, People within the building industry, therefore, have People within the building industry, therefore, have raised People within the building industry, therefore, have raised concerns therefore, have raised concerns about therefore, have raised concerns about instances therefore, have raised concerns about instances where therefore, have raised concerns about instances where forms therefore, have raised concerns about instances where forms were about instances where forms were issued about instances where forms were issued without about instances where forms were issued without the about instances where forms were issued without the procedures about instances where forms were issued without the procedures in about instances where forms were issued without the procedures in the issued without the procedures in the building issued without the procedures in the building compliance issued without the procedures in the building compliance schedule issued without the procedures in the building compliance schedule being building compliance schedule being fully building compliance schedule being fully complied building compliance schedule being fully complied this. building compliance schedule being fully complied this. This building compliance schedule being fully complied this. This may building compliance schedule being fully complied this. This may mean fully complied this. This may mean that fully complied this. This may mean that issues fully complied this. This may mean that issues with fully complied this. This may mean that issues with specified fully complied this. This may mean that issues with specified systems that issues with specified systems such that issues with specified systems such as that issues with specified systems such as fire that issues with specified systems such as fire and that issues with specified systems such as fire and smoke that issues with specified systems such as fire and smoke control such as fire and smoke control systems such as fire and smoke control systems go such as fire and smoke control systems go undetected, such as fire and smoke control systems go undetected, which such as fire and smoke control systems go undetected, which could systems go undetected, which could place systems go undetected, which could place building systems go undetected, which could place building occupants systems go undetected, which could place building occupants at systems go undetected, which could place building occupants at risk place building occupants at risk and, place building occupants at risk and, sir, place building occupants at risk and, sir, historically, place building occupants at risk and, sir, historically, that place building occupants at risk and, sir, historically, that is and, sir, historically, that is exactly and, sir, historically, that is exactly what and, sir, historically, that is exactly what we and, sir, historically, that is exactly what we have and, sir, historically, that is exactly what we have found and, sir, historically, that is exactly what we have found - and, sir, historically, that is exactly what we have found - sadly exactly what we have found - sadly not exactly what we have found - sadly not only exactly what we have found - sadly not only with exactly what we have found - sadly not only with Loafers' exactly what we have found - sadly not only with Loafers' Lodge exactly what we have found - sadly not only with Loafers' Lodge itself, not only with Loafers' Lodge itself, but not only with Loafers' Lodge itself, but in not only with Loafers' Lodge itself, but in the not only with Loafers' Lodge itself, but in the subsequent not only with Loafers' Lodge itself, but in the subsequent operation but in the subsequent operation known but in the subsequent operation known as but in the subsequent operation known as Operation but in the subsequent operation known as Operation Magazine. but in the subsequent operation known as Operation Magazine. The but in the subsequent operation known as Operation Magazine. The re known as Operation Magazine. The re are known as Operation Magazine. The re are no known as Operation Magazine. The re are no specific known as Operation Magazine. The re are no specific offences known as Operation Magazine. The re are no specific offences for are no specific offences for breaching are no specific offences for breaching the are no specific offences for breaching the duty. are no specific offences for breaching the duty. This are no specific offences for breaching the duty. This bill breaching the duty. This bill bridges breaching the duty. This bill bridges that breaching the duty. This bill bridges that gap breaching the duty. This bill bridges that gap and breaching the duty. This bill bridges that gap and introduces breaching the duty. This bill bridges that gap and introduces a bridges that gap and introduces a fine bridges that gap and introduces a fine of bridges that gap and introduces a fine of $50,000 bridges that gap and introduces a fine of $50,000 for bridges that gap and introduces a fine of $50,000 for an bridges that gap and introduces a fine of $50,000 for an individual fine of $50,000 for an individual and fine of $50,000 for an individual and up fine of $50,000 for an individual and up to fine of $50,000 for an individual and up to $150,000 fine of $50,000 for an individual and up to $150,000 for fine of $50,000 for an individual and up to $150,000 for a fine of $50,000 for an individual and up to $150,000 for a body and up to $150,000 for a body corporate. and up to $150,000 for a body corporate. This and up to $150,000 for a body corporate. This is and up to $150,000 for a body corporate. This is a and up to $150,000 for a body corporate. This is a strict corporate. This is a strict liability corporate. This is a strict liability offence, corporate. This is a strict liability offence, but corporate. This is a strict liability offence, but I corporate. This is a strict liability offence, but I think corporate. This is a strict liability offence, but I think there liability offence, but I think there are liability offence, but I think there are defences liability offence, but I think there are defences available liability offence, but I think there are defences available - liability offence, but I think there are defences available - in liability offence, but I think there are defences available - in any are defences available - in any case, are defences available - in any case, I are defences available - in any case, I am are defences available - in any case, I am not are defences available - in any case, I am not able are defences available - in any case, I am not able to are defences available - in any case, I am not able to go are defences available - in any case, I am not able to go into are defences available - in any case, I am not able to go into that case, I am not able to go into that today. case, I am not able to go into that today. The case, I am not able to go into that today. The new case, I am not able to go into that today. The new offence case, I am not able to go into that today. The new offence will case, I am not able to go into that today. The new offence will provide today. The new offence will provide territorial today. The new offence will provide territorial authorities today. The new offence will provide territorial authorities with today. The new offence will provide territorial authorities with tools territorial authorities with tools to territorial authorities with tools to discipline territorial authorities with tools to discipline under territorial authorities with tools to discipline under misconduct. territorial authorities with tools to discipline under misconduct. The to discipline under misconduct. The bill to discipline under misconduct. The bill also to discipline under misconduct. The bill also increases to discipline under misconduct. The bill also increases the to discipline under misconduct. The bill also increases the infringement bill also increases the infringement fees bill also increases the infringement fees to bill also increases the infringement fees to promote bill also increases the infringement fees to promote compliance bill also increases the infringement fees to promote compliance with fees to promote compliance with these fees to promote compliance with these obligations fees to promote compliance with these obligations and fees to promote compliance with these obligations and better fees to promote compliance with these obligations and better protect these obligations and better protect the these obligations and better protect the safety these obligations and better protect the safety of these obligations and better protect the safety of building these obligations and better protect the safety of building users. these obligations and better protect the safety of building users. Minor the safety of building users. Minor and the safety of building users. Minor and technical the safety of building users. Minor and technical changes the safety of building users. Minor and technical changes now, the safety of building users. Minor and technical changes now, sir. and technical changes now, sir. Finally, and technical changes now, sir. Finally, there and technical changes now, sir. Finally, there are and technical changes now, sir. Finally, there are some and technical changes now, sir. Finally, there are some changes Finally, there are some changes along Finally, there are some changes along the Finally, there are some changes along the lines Finally, there are some changes along the lines that Finally, there are some changes along the lines that stand-alone along the lines that stand-alone building along the lines that stand-alone building consent along the lines that stand-alone building consent authorities along the lines that stand-alone building consent authorities - building consent authorities - currently building consent authorities - currently just building consent authorities - currently just the building consent authorities - currently just the one, building consent authorities - currently just the one, being currently just the one, being Consentium, currently just the one, being Consentium, which currently just the one, being Consentium, which does currently just the one, being Consentium, which does the currently just the one, being Consentium, which does the work currently just the one, being Consentium, which does the work for Consentium, which does the work for Kainga Consentium, which does the work for Kainga Ora Consentium, which does the work for Kainga Ora - Consentium, which does the work for Kainga Ora - do Consentium, which does the work for Kainga Ora - do not Consentium, which does the work for Kainga Ora - do not need Consentium, which does the work for Kainga Ora - do not need to Consentium, which does the work for Kainga Ora - do not need to pay Kainga Ora - do not need to pay their Kainga Ora - do not need to pay their fee Kainga Ora - do not need to pay their fee directly Kainga Ora - do not need to pay their fee directly to Kainga Ora - do not need to pay their fee directly to MBIE Kainga Ora - do not need to pay their fee directly to MBIE at Kainga Ora - do not need to pay their fee directly to MBIE at the their fee directly to MBIE at the moment. their fee directly to MBIE at the moment. Indeed, their fee directly to MBIE at the moment. Indeed, they their fee directly to MBIE at the moment. Indeed, they can't their fee directly to MBIE at the moment. Indeed, they can't - their fee directly to MBIE at the moment. Indeed, they can't - they moment. Indeed, they can't - they have moment. Indeed, they can't - they have to moment. Indeed, they can't - they have to go moment. Indeed, they can't - they have to go through moment. Indeed, they can't - they have to go through their moment. Indeed, they can't - they have to go through their relevant have to go through their relevant territorial have to go through their relevant territorial authority. have to go through their relevant territorial authority. We have to go through their relevant territorial authority. We are territorial authority. We are removing territorial authority. We are removing that territorial authority. We are removing that anomaly. territorial authority. We are removing that anomaly. We'll territorial authority. We are removing that anomaly. We'll also removing that anomaly. We'll also remove removing that anomaly. We'll also remove the removing that anomaly. We'll also remove the obligation removing that anomaly. We'll also remove the obligation for removing that anomaly. We'll also remove the obligation for dam removing that anomaly. We'll also remove the obligation for dam owners remove the obligation for dam owners - remove the obligation for dam owners - that remove the obligation for dam owners - that is, remove the obligation for dam owners - that is, owners remove the obligation for dam owners - that is, owners of remove the obligation for dam owners - that is, owners of water remove the obligation for dam owners - that is, owners of water storage - that is, owners of water storage facilities - that is, owners of water storage facilities - - that is, owners of water storage facilities - to - that is, owners of water storage facilities - to display - that is, owners of water storage facilities - to display a - that is, owners of water storage facilities - to display a display - that is, owners of water storage facilities - to display a display of facilities - to display a display of the facilities - to display a display of the certificate facilities - to display a display of the certificate in facilities - to display a display of the certificate in a facilities - to display a display of the certificate in a prominent facilities - to display a display of the certificate in a prominent place the certificate in a prominent place on the certificate in a prominent place on the the certificate in a prominent place on the dam, the certificate in a prominent place on the dam, which the certificate in a prominent place on the dam, which is the certificate in a prominent place on the dam, which is physically on the dam, which is physically impractical on the dam, which is physically impractical to on the dam, which is physically impractical to do on the dam, which is physically impractical to do in on the dam, which is physically impractical to do in many on the dam, which is physically impractical to do in many cases, on the dam, which is physically impractical to do in many cases, but impractical to do in many cases, but instead impractical to do in many cases, but instead must impractical to do in many cases, but instead must forward impractical to do in many cases, but instead must forward the impractical to do in many cases, but instead must forward the certificate instead must forward the certificate to instead must forward the certificate to the instead must forward the certificate to the relevant instead must forward the certificate to the relevant regional instead must forward the certificate to the relevant regional authority. to the relevant regional authority. Finally, to the relevant regional authority. Finally, to to the relevant regional authority. Finally, to clarify to the relevant regional authority. Finally, to clarify or to the relevant regional authority. Finally, to clarify or meet to the relevant regional authority. Finally, to clarify or meet the Finally, to clarify or meet the intent Finally, to clarify or meet the intent of Finally, to clarify or meet the intent of the Finally, to clarify or meet the intent of the building Finally, to clarify or meet the intent of the building pools intent of the building pools Amendment intent of the building pools Amendment Act intent of the building pools Amendment Act 2016, intent of the building pools Amendment Act 2016, we intent of the building pools Amendment Act 2016, we will intent of the building pools Amendment Act 2016, we will exempt Amendment Act 2016, we will exempt small Amendment Act 2016, we will exempt small heated Amendment Act 2016, we will exempt small heated pools Amendment Act 2016, we will exempt small heated pools such Amendment Act 2016, we will exempt small heated pools such as Amendment Act 2016, we will exempt small heated pools such as a Amendment Act 2016, we will exempt small heated pools such as a spa small heated pools such as a spa from small heated pools such as a spa from the small heated pools such as a spa from the requirement small heated pools such as a spa from the requirement for small heated pools such as a spa from the requirement for periodic from the requirement for periodic inspection from the requirement for periodic inspection if from the requirement for periodic inspection if they from the requirement for periodic inspection if they have from the requirement for periodic inspection if they have a from the requirement for periodic inspection if they have a safety inspection if they have a safety cover inspection if they have a safety cover that inspection if they have a safety cover that complies inspection if they have a safety cover that complies with inspection if they have a safety cover that complies with the cover that complies with the building cover that complies with the building code. cover that complies with the building code. Finally, cover that complies with the building code. Finally, finally, building code. Finally, finally, finally building code. Finally, finally, finally - building code. Finally, finally, finally - a building code. Finally, finally, finally - a certificate building code. Finally, finally, finally - a certificate of finally - a certificate of acceptance finally - a certificate of acceptance for finally - a certificate of acceptance for building finally - a certificate of acceptance for building work finally - a certificate of acceptance for building work that's acceptance for building work that's issued acceptance for building work that's issued by acceptance for building work that's issued by territorial acceptance for building work that's issued by territorial need acceptance for building work that's issued by territorial need not acceptance for building work that's issued by territorial need not need issued by territorial need not need a issued by territorial need not need a building issued by territorial need not need a building consent issued by territorial need not need a building consent to a building consent to retrospectively. a building consent to retrospectively. I a building consent to retrospectively. I commend a building consent to retrospectively. I commend this a building consent to retrospectively. I commend this bill retrospectively. I commend this bill to retrospectively. I commend this bill to the retrospectively. I commend this bill to the House. retrospectively. I commend this bill to the House. I retrospectively. I commend this bill to the House. I call retrospectively. I commend this bill to the House. I call Arena retrospectively. I commend this bill to the House. I call Arena Williams. to the House. I call Arena Williams. This to the House. I call Arena Williams. This will to the House. I call Arena Williams. This will be to the House. I call Arena Williams. This will be a to the House. I call Arena Williams. This will be a brief to the House. I call Arena Williams. This will be a brief call to the House. I call Arena Williams. This will be a brief call for to the House. I call Arena Williams. This will be a brief call for me to the House. I call Arena Williams. This will be a brief call for me as This will be a brief call for me as the This will be a brief call for me as the spokesperson This will be a brief call for me as the spokesperson for This will be a brief call for me as the spokesperson for the This will be a brief call for me as the spokesperson for the Labour the spokesperson for the Labour Party the spokesperson for the Labour Party on the spokesperson for the Labour Party on Building the spokesperson for the Labour Party on Building and the spokesperson for the Labour Party on Building and Construction Party on Building and Construction to Party on Building and Construction to set Party on Building and Construction to set out Party on Building and Construction to set out the Party on Building and Construction to set out the Labour Party on Building and Construction to set out the Labour Party's to set out the Labour Party's position to set out the Labour Party's position on to set out the Labour Party's position on this, to set out the Labour Party's position on this, but to set out the Labour Party's position on this, but also to set out the Labour Party's position on this, but also to to set out the Labour Party's position on this, but also to give position on this, but also to give the position on this, but also to give the House position on this, but also to give the House a position on this, but also to give the House a sense position on this, but also to give the House a sense of position on this, but also to give the House a sense of how position on this, but also to give the House a sense of how eager position on this, but also to give the House a sense of how eager we the House a sense of how eager we are the House a sense of how eager we are to the House a sense of how eager we are to get the House a sense of how eager we are to get into the House a sense of how eager we are to get into the the House a sense of how eager we are to get into the detail the House a sense of how eager we are to get into the detail of the House a sense of how eager we are to get into the detail of this are to get into the detail of this bill are to get into the detail of this bill in are to get into the detail of this bill in the are to get into the detail of this bill in the select are to get into the detail of this bill in the select committee are to get into the detail of this bill in the select committee chaired bill in the select committee chaired by bill in the select committee chaired by the bill in the select committee chaired by the very bill in the select committee chaired by the very able bill in the select committee chaired by the very able Andy bill in the select committee chaired by the very able Andy Foster bill in the select committee chaired by the very able Andy Foster and by the very able Andy Foster and representatives by the very able Andy Foster and representatives of by the very able Andy Foster and representatives of all by the very able Andy Foster and representatives of all parties representatives of all parties around representatives of all parties around this representatives of all parties around this House, representatives of all parties around this House, because representatives of all parties around this House, because this around this House, because this should around this House, because this should be around this House, because this should be something around this House, because this should be something that around this House, because this should be something that all around this House, because this should be something that all parties should be something that all parties have should be something that all parties have an should be something that all parties have an interest should be something that all parties have an interest in. should be something that all parties have an interest in. This should be something that all parties have an interest in. This should should be something that all parties have an interest in. This should be have an interest in. This should be something have an interest in. This should be something that have an interest in. This should be something that submitters have an interest in. This should be something that submitters get have an interest in. This should be something that submitters get to something that submitters get to have something that submitters get to have a something that submitters get to have a say something that submitters get to have a say on something that submitters get to have a say on and something that submitters get to have a say on and that something that submitters get to have a say on and that we something that submitters get to have a say on and that we get something that submitters get to have a say on and that we get to have a say on and that we get to work have a say on and that we get to work through have a say on and that we get to work through some have a say on and that we get to work through some of have a say on and that we get to work through some of these have a say on and that we get to work through some of these details. work through some of these details. Because work through some of these details. Because it work through some of these details. Because it is work through some of these details. Because it is of work through some of these details. Because it is of interest work through some of these details. Because it is of interest to work through some of these details. Because it is of interest to all work through some of these details. Because it is of interest to all New Because it is of interest to all New Zealanders. Because it is of interest to all New Zealanders. The Because it is of interest to all New Zealanders. The starting Because it is of interest to all New Zealanders. The starting points Because it is of interest to all New Zealanders. The starting points and Zealanders. The starting points and the Zealanders. The starting points and the principles Zealanders. The starting points and the principles that Zealanders. The starting points and the principles that I Zealanders. The starting points and the principles that I will Zealanders. The starting points and the principles that I will be the principles that I will be considering the principles that I will be considering when the principles that I will be considering when we the principles that I will be considering when we look the principles that I will be considering when we look at the principles that I will be considering when we look at this the principles that I will be considering when we look at this in considering when we look at this in more considering when we look at this in more detail considering when we look at this in more detail at considering when we look at this in more detail at select considering when we look at this in more detail at select committee more detail at select committee level more detail at select committee level is more detail at select committee level is that more detail at select committee level is that no-one more detail at select committee level is that no-one should more detail at select committee level is that no-one should be more detail at select committee level is that no-one should be put level is that no-one should be put at level is that no-one should be put at undue level is that no-one should be put at undue risk level is that no-one should be put at undue risk due level is that no-one should be put at undue risk due to level is that no-one should be put at undue risk due to the level is that no-one should be put at undue risk due to the building at undue risk due to the building that at undue risk due to the building that they at undue risk due to the building that they are at undue risk due to the building that they are in. at undue risk due to the building that they are in. And at undue risk due to the building that they are in. And that at undue risk due to the building that they are in. And that we at undue risk due to the building that they are in. And that we have that they are in. And that we have to that they are in. And that we have to be that they are in. And that we have to be mindful that they are in. And that we have to be mindful that that they are in. And that we have to be mindful that these that they are in. And that we have to be mindful that these rules that they are in. And that we have to be mindful that these rules we've to be mindful that these rules we've set to be mindful that these rules we've set up to be mindful that these rules we've set up in to be mindful that these rules we've set up in the to be mindful that these rules we've set up in the wake to be mindful that these rules we've set up in the wake of to be mindful that these rules we've set up in the wake of the set up in the wake of the Christchurch set up in the wake of the Christchurch earthquake set up in the wake of the Christchurch earthquake and set up in the wake of the Christchurch earthquake and the Christchurch earthquake and the context Christchurch earthquake and the context of Christchurch earthquake and the context of things Christchurch earthquake and the context of things like Christchurch earthquake and the context of things like the Christchurch earthquake and the context of things like the Kaikoura context of things like the Kaikoura earthquake, context of things like the Kaikoura earthquake, which context of things like the Kaikoura earthquake, which represent context of things like the Kaikoura earthquake, which represent real earthquake, which represent real tragedies earthquake, which represent real tragedies for earthquake, which represent real tragedies for New earthquake, which represent real tragedies for New Zealand, earthquake, which represent real tragedies for New Zealand, and earthquake, which represent real tragedies for New Zealand, and we tragedies for New Zealand, and we need tragedies for New Zealand, and we need to tragedies for New Zealand, and we need to make tragedies for New Zealand, and we need to make sure tragedies for New Zealand, and we need to make sure that tragedies for New Zealand, and we need to make sure that these tragedies for New Zealand, and we need to make sure that these very need to make sure that these very real need to make sure that these very real events need to make sure that these very real events which need to make sure that these very real events which happen need to make sure that these very real events which happen in need to make sure that these very real events which happen in New real events which happen in New Zealand, real events which happen in New Zealand, which real events which happen in New Zealand, which cause real events which happen in New Zealand, which cause loss real events which happen in New Zealand, which cause loss of real events which happen in New Zealand, which cause loss of life, Zealand, which cause loss of life, loss Zealand, which cause loss of life, loss of Zealand, which cause loss of life, loss of property, Zealand, which cause loss of life, loss of property, and Zealand, which cause loss of life, loss of property, and huge Zealand, which cause loss of life, loss of property, and huge cost Zealand, which cause loss of life, loss of property, and huge cost to loss of property, and huge cost to our loss of property, and huge cost to our national loss of property, and huge cost to our national infrastructure, loss of property, and huge cost to our national infrastructure, are our national infrastructure, are provided our national infrastructure, are provided for our national infrastructure, are provided for in our national infrastructure, are provided for in our our national infrastructure, are provided for in our legislation, our national infrastructure, are provided for in our legislation, and provided for in our legislation, and that provided for in our legislation, and that we provided for in our legislation, and that we have provided for in our legislation, and that we have these provided for in our legislation, and that we have these settings provided for in our legislation, and that we have these settings right. that we have these settings right. At that we have these settings right. At the that we have these settings right. At the same that we have these settings right. At the same time, that we have these settings right. At the same time, I that we have these settings right. At the same time, I think that we have these settings right. At the same time, I think everyone At the same time, I think everyone in At the same time, I think everyone in this At the same time, I think everyone in this House At the same time, I think everyone in this House is At the same time, I think everyone in this House is incredibly in this House is incredibly sympathetic in this House is incredibly sympathetic to in this House is incredibly sympathetic to the in this House is incredibly sympathetic to the plight in this House is incredibly sympathetic to the plight of in this House is incredibly sympathetic to the plight of those sympathetic to the plight of those people sympathetic to the plight of those people who sympathetic to the plight of those people who find sympathetic to the plight of those people who find themselves sympathetic to the plight of those people who find themselves owners sympathetic to the plight of those people who find themselves owners or people who find themselves owners or responsible people who find themselves owners or responsible for people who find themselves owners or responsible for buildings people who find themselves owners or responsible for buildings that people who find themselves owners or responsible for buildings that are responsible for buildings that are earthquake-prone, responsible for buildings that are earthquake-prone, particularly responsible for buildings that are earthquake-prone, particularly in earthquake-prone, particularly in the earthquake-prone, particularly in the context earthquake-prone, particularly in the context of earthquake-prone, particularly in the context of residential the context of residential homeowners the context of residential homeowners and the context of residential homeowners and apartment the context of residential homeowners and apartment owners the context of residential homeowners and apartment owners in homeowners and apartment owners in places homeowners and apartment owners in places like homeowners and apartment owners in places like Wellington homeowners and apartment owners in places like Wellington who homeowners and apartment owners in places like Wellington who are homeowners and apartment owners in places like Wellington who are now places like Wellington who are now faced places like Wellington who are now faced with places like Wellington who are now faced with bills places like Wellington who are now faced with bills they places like Wellington who are now faced with bills they simply places like Wellington who are now faced with bills they simply cannot faced with bills they simply cannot pay. faced with bills they simply cannot pay. We faced with bills they simply cannot pay. We need faced with bills they simply cannot pay. We need to faced with bills they simply cannot pay. We need to be faced with bills they simply cannot pay. We need to be able faced with bills they simply cannot pay. We need to be able to faced with bills they simply cannot pay. We need to be able to work faced with bills they simply cannot pay. We need to be able to work our pay. We need to be able to work our way pay. We need to be able to work our way through pay. We need to be able to work our way through and pay. We need to be able to work our way through and find pay. We need to be able to work our way through and find solutions pay. We need to be able to work our way through and find solutions which way through and find solutions which recognise way through and find solutions which recognise the way through and find solutions which recognise the role way through and find solutions which recognise the role of way through and find solutions which recognise the role of Government recognise the role of Government here recognise the role of Government here in recognise the role of Government here in supporting recognise the role of Government here in supporting people recognise the role of Government here in supporting people through here in supporting people through this, here in supporting people through this, and here in supporting people through this, and the here in supporting people through this, and the huge here in supporting people through this, and the huge financial here in supporting people through this, and the huge financial costs this, and the huge financial costs to this, and the huge financial costs to them, this, and the huge financial costs to them, in this, and the huge financial costs to them, in a this, and the huge financial costs to them, in a way this, and the huge financial costs to them, in a way that this, and the huge financial costs to them, in a way that is this, and the huge financial costs to them, in a way that is safe this, and the huge financial costs to them, in a way that is safe and to them, in a way that is safe and recognises to them, in a way that is safe and recognises that to them, in a way that is safe and recognises that not to them, in a way that is safe and recognises that not everyone to them, in a way that is safe and recognises that not everyone has recognises that not everyone has access recognises that not everyone has access to recognises that not everyone has access to information recognises that not everyone has access to information about recognises that not everyone has access to information about the recognises that not everyone has access to information about the kind access to information about the kind of access to information about the kind of buildings access to information about the kind of buildings that access to information about the kind of buildings that they're access to information about the kind of buildings that they're in, of buildings that they're in, especially of buildings that they're in, especially when of buildings that they're in, especially when they're of buildings that they're in, especially when they're commercial especially when they're commercial premises. especially when they're commercial premises. The especially when they're commercial premises. The Labour especially when they're commercial premises. The Labour Party especially when they're commercial premises. The Labour Party is especially when they're commercial premises. The Labour Party is in premises. The Labour Party is in opposition premises. The Labour Party is in opposition to premises. The Labour Party is in opposition to this premises. The Labour Party is in opposition to this bill, premises. The Labour Party is in opposition to this bill, but premises. The Labour Party is in opposition to this bill, but we premises. The Labour Party is in opposition to this bill, but we are opposition to this bill, but we are really opposition to this bill, but we are really keen opposition to this bill, but we are really keen to opposition to this bill, but we are really keen to work opposition to this bill, but we are really keen to work through opposition to this bill, but we are really keen to work through this opposition to this bill, but we are really keen to work through this at really keen to work through this at committee really keen to work through this at committee with really keen to work through this at committee with some really keen to work through this at committee with some of really keen to work through this at committee with some of the really keen to work through this at committee with some of the questions committee with some of the questions that committee with some of the questions that we committee with some of the questions that we have. committee with some of the questions that we have. I'll committee with some of the questions that we have. I'll outline committee with some of the questions that we have. I'll outline what committee with some of the questions that we have. I'll outline what they that we have. I'll outline what they are that we have. I'll outline what they are briefly that we have. I'll outline what they are briefly now. that we have. I'll outline what they are briefly now. The that we have. I'll outline what they are briefly now. The first that we have. I'll outline what they are briefly now. The first is that we have. I'll outline what they are briefly now. The first is that that we have. I'll outline what they are briefly now. The first is that - are briefly now. The first is that - absolutely are briefly now. The first is that - absolutely key are briefly now. The first is that - absolutely key to are briefly now. The first is that - absolutely key to this are briefly now. The first is that - absolutely key to this whole are briefly now. The first is that - absolutely key to this whole regime absolutely key to this whole regime is absolutely key to this whole regime is the absolutely key to this whole regime is the idea absolutely key to this whole regime is the idea that absolutely key to this whole regime is the idea that someone absolutely key to this whole regime is the idea that someone will absolutely key to this whole regime is the idea that someone will need is the idea that someone will need to is the idea that someone will need to pay is the idea that someone will need to pay for is the idea that someone will need to pay for street is the idea that someone will need to pay for street firming. is the idea that someone will need to pay for street firming. Is is the idea that someone will need to pay for street firming. Is that to pay for street firming. Is that the to pay for street firming. Is that the Government? to pay for street firming. Is that the Government? Private to pay for street firming. Is that the Government? Private owners? to pay for street firming. Is that the Government? Private owners? Is the Government? Private owners? Is that the Government? Private owners? Is that the the Government? Private owners? Is that the Government the Government? Private owners? Is that the Government retrospectively that the Government retrospectively paying that the Government retrospectively paying for that the Government retrospectively paying for private that the Government retrospectively paying for private owners that the Government retrospectively paying for private owners to that the Government retrospectively paying for private owners to enjoy paying for private owners to enjoy the paying for private owners to enjoy the support paying for private owners to enjoy the support of paying for private owners to enjoy the support of Government paying for private owners to enjoy the support of Government and paying for private owners to enjoy the support of Government and not the support of Government and not requiring the support of Government and not requiring them the support of Government and not requiring them to the support of Government and not requiring them to be the support of Government and not requiring them to be any the support of Government and not requiring them to be any risk? the support of Government and not requiring them to be any risk? Or the support of Government and not requiring them to be any risk? Or is requiring them to be any risk? Or is there requiring them to be any risk? Or is there a requiring them to be any risk? Or is there a role requiring them to be any risk? Or is there a role for requiring them to be any risk? Or is there a role for local requiring them to be any risk? Or is there a role for local government there a role for local government here there a role for local government here as there a role for local government here as well? there a role for local government here as well? All there a role for local government here as well? All of there a role for local government here as well? All of those there a role for local government here as well? All of those questions here as well? All of those questions do here as well? All of those questions do not here as well? All of those questions do not get here as well? All of those questions do not get answered here as well? All of those questions do not get answered if here as well? All of those questions do not get answered if the here as well? All of those questions do not get answered if the central do not get answered if the central government do not get answered if the central government is do not get answered if the central government is unable do not get answered if the central government is unable to do not get answered if the central government is unable to fulfil do not get answered if the central government is unable to fulfil the government is unable to fulfil the role government is unable to fulfil the role of government is unable to fulfil the role of holding government is unable to fulfil the role of holding to government is unable to fulfil the role of holding to the government is unable to fulfil the role of holding to the remediation role of holding to the remediation timeframes role of holding to the remediation timeframes that role of holding to the remediation timeframes that it role of holding to the remediation timeframes that it sets. role of holding to the remediation timeframes that it sets. And role of holding to the remediation timeframes that it sets. And so timeframes that it sets. And so there timeframes that it sets. And so there is timeframes that it sets. And so there is a timeframes that it sets. And so there is a question timeframes that it sets. And so there is a question there timeframes that it sets. And so there is a question there about there is a question there about whether there is a question there about whether extending there is a question there about whether extending the there is a question there about whether extending the timeframes whether extending the timeframes essentially whether extending the timeframes essentially rewards whether extending the timeframes essentially rewards procrastination. essentially rewards procrastination. That essentially rewards procrastination. That was essentially rewards procrastination. That was a essentially rewards procrastination. That was a point essentially rewards procrastination. That was a point made essentially rewards procrastination. That was a point made in essentially rewards procrastination. That was a point made in media That was a point made in media commentary That was a point made in media commentary by That was a point made in media commentary by one That was a point made in media commentary by one of That was a point made in media commentary by one of the commentary by one of the Christchurch commentary by one of the Christchurch earthquake commentary by one of the Christchurch earthquake survivors Christchurch earthquake survivors who Christchurch earthquake survivors who commented Christchurch earthquake survivors who commented - Christchurch earthquake survivors who commented - "Are Christchurch earthquake survivors who commented - "Are we Christchurch earthquake survivors who commented - "Are we rewarding who commented - "Are we rewarding procrastination who commented - "Are we rewarding procrastination here who commented - "Are we rewarding procrastination here if who commented - "Are we rewarding procrastination here if Government procrastination here if Government continues procrastination here if Government continues to procrastination here if Government continues to kick procrastination here if Government continues to kick the procrastination here if Government continues to kick the can procrastination here if Government continues to kick the can down procrastination here if Government continues to kick the can down the continues to kick the can down the road?" continues to kick the can down the road?" It's continues to kick the can down the road?" It's a continues to kick the can down the road?" It's a question continues to kick the can down the road?" It's a question we continues to kick the can down the road?" It's a question we have continues to kick the can down the road?" It's a question we have on road?" It's a question we have on our road?" It's a question we have on our minds, road?" It's a question we have on our minds, because road?" It's a question we have on our minds, because we road?" It's a question we have on our minds, because we must road?" It's a question we have on our minds, because we must send our minds, because we must send clear our minds, because we must send clear signals our minds, because we must send clear signals not our minds, because we must send clear signals not only our minds, because we must send clear signals not only to our minds, because we must send clear signals not only to those clear signals not only to those homeowners clear signals not only to those homeowners and clear signals not only to those homeowners and not clear signals not only to those homeowners and not only clear signals not only to those homeowners and not only to clear signals not only to those homeowners and not only to the homeowners and not only to the people homeowners and not only to the people affected, homeowners and not only to the people affected, but homeowners and not only to the people affected, but also homeowners and not only to the people affected, but also to homeowners and not only to the people affected, but also to local people affected, but also to local councils. people affected, but also to local councils. There people affected, but also to local councils. There is people affected, but also to local councils. There is a people affected, but also to local councils. There is a question people affected, but also to local councils. There is a question of councils. There is a question of certainty councils. There is a question of certainty around councils. There is a question of certainty around things councils. There is a question of certainty around things like certainty around things like insurance certainty around things like insurance and certainty around things like insurance and the certainty around things like insurance and the costs certainty around things like insurance and the costs spread insurance and the costs spread around insurance and the costs spread around people insurance and the costs spread around people if insurance and the costs spread around people if Government insurance and the costs spread around people if Government does insurance and the costs spread around people if Government does not around people if Government does not have around people if Government does not have hard around people if Government does not have hard deadlines around people if Government does not have hard deadlines on around people if Government does not have hard deadlines on a around people if Government does not have hard deadlines on a case around people if Government does not have hard deadlines on a case like have hard deadlines on a case like this. have hard deadlines on a case like this. Another have hard deadlines on a case like this. Another question have hard deadlines on a case like this. Another question that have hard deadlines on a case like this. Another question that we have hard deadlines on a case like this. Another question that we will this. Another question that we will be this. Another question that we will be asking this. Another question that we will be asking is this. Another question that we will be asking is whether this. Another question that we will be asking is whether the this. Another question that we will be asking is whether the settings be asking is whether the settings for be asking is whether the settings for homeowners be asking is whether the settings for homeowners who be asking is whether the settings for homeowners who cannot be asking is whether the settings for homeowners who cannot pay be asking is whether the settings for homeowners who cannot pay are for homeowners who cannot pay are right for homeowners who cannot pay are right - for homeowners who cannot pay are right - how for homeowners who cannot pay are right - how we for homeowners who cannot pay are right - how we can for homeowners who cannot pay are right - how we can support for homeowners who cannot pay are right - how we can support people right - how we can support people through right - how we can support people through it, right - how we can support people through it, a right - how we can support people through it, a really right - how we can support people through it, a really difficult right - how we can support people through it, a really difficult time through it, a really difficult time financially. through it, a really difficult time financially. Labour through it, a really difficult time financially. Labour have through it, a really difficult time financially. Labour have a through it, a really difficult time financially. Labour have a solution financially. Labour have a solution for financially. Labour have a solution for this financially. Labour have a solution for this - financially. Labour have a solution for this - I financially. Labour have a solution for this - I won't financially. Labour have a solution for this - I won't go financially. Labour have a solution for this - I won't go into financially. Labour have a solution for this - I won't go into it, financially. Labour have a solution for this - I won't go into it, I for this - I won't go into it, I don't for this - I won't go into it, I don't have for this - I won't go into it, I don't have time for this - I won't go into it, I don't have time - for this - I won't go into it, I don't have time - but for this - I won't go into it, I don't have time - but solutions don't have time - but solutions around don't have time - but solutions around lending don't have time - but solutions around lending to don't have time - but solutions around lending to people don't have time - but solutions around lending to people and around lending to people and requiring around lending to people and requiring them around lending to people and requiring them to around lending to people and requiring them to pay around lending to people and requiring them to pay it around lending to people and requiring them to pay it back around lending to people and requiring them to pay it back only requiring them to pay it back only on requiring them to pay it back only on sale requiring them to pay it back only on sale or requiring them to pay it back only on sale or death requiring them to pay it back only on sale or death might requiring them to pay it back only on sale or death might be requiring them to pay it back only on sale or death might be something on sale or death might be something here on sale or death might be something here that on sale or death might be something here that we on sale or death might be something here that we need on sale or death might be something here that we need to on sale or death might be something here that we need to look on sale or death might be something here that we need to look to. on sale or death might be something here that we need to look to. And here that we need to look to. And I'm here that we need to look to. And I'm sure here that we need to look to. And I'm sure that here that we need to look to. And I'm sure that the here that we need to look to. And I'm sure that the select here that we need to look to. And I'm sure that the select committee I'm sure that the select committee will I'm sure that the select committee will have I'm sure that the select committee will have the I'm sure that the select committee will have the opportunity I'm sure that the select committee will have the opportunity to I'm sure that the select committee will have the opportunity to discuss will have the opportunity to discuss this will have the opportunity to discuss this with will have the opportunity to discuss this with submitters, will have the opportunity to discuss this with submitters, because will have the opportunity to discuss this with submitters, because though this with submitters, because though this this with submitters, because though this is this with submitters, because though this is a this with submitters, because though this is a relatively this with submitters, because though this is a relatively limited this with submitters, because though this is a relatively limited in this is a relatively limited in scope, this is a relatively limited in scope, this this is a relatively limited in scope, this bill this is a relatively limited in scope, this bill in this is a relatively limited in scope, this bill in particular, this is a relatively limited in scope, this bill in particular, we scope, this bill in particular, we will scope, this bill in particular, we will attract scope, this bill in particular, we will attract a scope, this bill in particular, we will attract a number scope, this bill in particular, we will attract a number of scope, this bill in particular, we will attract a number of people scope, this bill in particular, we will attract a number of people who will attract a number of people who want will attract a number of people who want to will attract a number of people who want to have will attract a number of people who want to have their will attract a number of people who want to have their say will attract a number of people who want to have their say on will attract a number of people who want to have their say on this want to have their say on this issue. want to have their say on this issue. Which want to have their say on this issue. Which brings want to have their say on this issue. Which brings me, want to have their say on this issue. Which brings me, Mr want to have their say on this issue. Which brings me, Mr Speaker, issue. Which brings me, Mr Speaker, in issue. Which brings me, Mr Speaker, in the issue. Which brings me, Mr Speaker, in the final issue. Which brings me, Mr Speaker, in the final minute issue. Which brings me, Mr Speaker, in the final minute of issue. Which brings me, Mr Speaker, in the final minute of my in the final minute of my contribution, in the final minute of my contribution, to in the final minute of my contribution, to the in the final minute of my contribution, to the report-back contribution, to the report-back date. contribution, to the report-back date. We contribution, to the report-back date. We oppose contribution, to the report-back date. We oppose the contribution, to the report-back date. We oppose the shortened date. We oppose the shortened report-back date. We oppose the shortened report-back date. date. We oppose the shortened report-back date. We date. We oppose the shortened report-back date. We would date. We oppose the shortened report-back date. We would like date. We oppose the shortened report-back date. We would like to report-back date. We would like to hear report-back date. We would like to hear fulsomely report-back date. We would like to hear fulsomely from report-back date. We would like to hear fulsomely from those hear fulsomely from those submitters, hear fulsomely from those submitters, particularly hear fulsomely from those submitters, particularly in hear fulsomely from those submitters, particularly in local submitters, particularly in local government, submitters, particularly in local government, and submitters, particularly in local government, and the submitters, particularly in local government, and the homeowners submitters, particularly in local government, and the homeowners who government, and the homeowners who are government, and the homeowners who are affected, government, and the homeowners who are affected, and government, and the homeowners who are affected, and the government, and the homeowners who are affected, and the people government, and the homeowners who are affected, and the people who are affected, and the people who have are affected, and the people who have been are affected, and the people who have been through are affected, and the people who have been through these are affected, and the people who have been through these earthquake have been through these earthquake events have been through these earthquake events before have been through these earthquake events before in have been through these earthquake events before in their have been through these earthquake events before in their regions have been through these earthquake events before in their regions about events before in their regions about how events before in their regions about how these events before in their regions about how these deadlines events before in their regions about how these deadlines are events before in their regions about how these deadlines are important events before in their regions about how these deadlines are important to how these deadlines are important to certainty how these deadlines are important to certainty in how these deadlines are important to certainty in their how these deadlines are important to certainty in their areas. how these deadlines are important to certainty in their areas. We'd how these deadlines are important to certainty in their areas. We'd also certainty in their areas. We'd also like certainty in their areas. We'd also like to certainty in their areas. We'd also like to hear certainty in their areas. We'd also like to hear from certainty in their areas. We'd also like to hear from property like to hear from property developers like to hear from property developers and like to hear from property developers and people like to hear from property developers and people with like to hear from property developers and people with an developers and people with an interest developers and people with an interest in developers and people with an interest in other developers and people with an interest in other regions developers and people with an interest in other regions like interest in other regions like Auckland interest in other regions like Auckland who interest in other regions like Auckland who might interest in other regions like Auckland who might oppose interest in other regions like Auckland who might oppose the interest in other regions like Auckland who might oppose the rules Auckland who might oppose the rules and Auckland who might oppose the rules and why Auckland who might oppose the rules and why they Auckland who might oppose the rules and why they think Auckland who might oppose the rules and why they think the Auckland who might oppose the rules and why they think the deadline and why they think the deadline extension and why they think the deadline extension is and why they think the deadline extension is a and why they think the deadline extension is a useful and why they think the deadline extension is a useful thing. and why they think the deadline extension is a useful thing. And and why they think the deadline extension is a useful thing. And so, extension is a useful thing. And so, Mr extension is a useful thing. And so, Mr Speaker, extension is a useful thing. And so, Mr Speaker, keen extension is a useful thing. And so, Mr Speaker, keen to extension is a useful thing. And so, Mr Speaker, keen to get extension is a useful thing. And so, Mr Speaker, keen to get into extension is a useful thing. And so, Mr Speaker, keen to get into this extension is a useful thing. And so, Mr Speaker, keen to get into this at Mr Speaker, keen to get into this at select Mr Speaker, keen to get into this at select committee. Mr Speaker, keen to get into this at select committee. There Mr Speaker, keen to get into this at select committee. There will Mr Speaker, keen to get into this at select committee. There will be select committee. There will be calls select committee. There will be calls on select committee. There will be calls on this select committee. There will be calls on this side select committee. There will be calls on this side of select committee. There will be calls on this side of the select committee. There will be calls on this side of the House calls on this side of the House about calls on this side of the House about the calls on this side of the House about the report-back calls on this side of the House about the report-back date. calls on this side of the House about the report-back date. The calls on this side of the House about the report-back date. The Hon about the report-back date. The Hon Julie about the report-back date. The Hon Julie Anne about the report-back date. The Hon Julie Anne Genter. about the report-back date. The Hon Julie Anne Genter. Tena about the report-back date. The Hon Julie Anne Genter. Tena koe, about the report-back date. The Hon Julie Anne Genter. Tena koe, Mr Julie Anne Genter. Tena koe, Mr Speaker. Julie Anne Genter. Tena koe, Mr Speaker. My Julie Anne Genter. Tena koe, Mr Speaker. My contribution Julie Anne Genter. Tena koe, Mr Speaker. My contribution actually Speaker. My contribution actually has Speaker. My contribution actually has certain Speaker. My contribution actually has certain amounts Speaker. My contribution actually has certain amounts in Speaker. My contribution actually has certain amounts in common Speaker. My contribution actually has certain amounts in common with has certain amounts in common with the has certain amounts in common with the previous has certain amounts in common with the previous speaker, has certain amounts in common with the previous speaker, being has certain amounts in common with the previous speaker, being a the previous speaker, being a representative the previous speaker, being a representative of the previous speaker, being a representative of a the previous speaker, being a representative of a part the previous speaker, being a representative of a part of representative of a part of Wellington representative of a part of Wellington - representative of a part of Wellington - this representative of a part of Wellington - this is representative of a part of Wellington - this is a representative of a part of Wellington - this is a bill representative of a part of Wellington - this is a bill that Wellington - this is a bill that will Wellington - this is a bill that will directly Wellington - this is a bill that will directly impact Wellington - this is a bill that will directly impact and Wellington - this is a bill that will directly impact and assist will directly impact and assist those will directly impact and assist those who will directly impact and assist those who own will directly impact and assist those who own buildings will directly impact and assist those who own buildings in will directly impact and assist those who own buildings in relington those who own buildings in relington that those who own buildings in relington that have those who own buildings in relington that have been those who own buildings in relington that have been having those who own buildings in relington that have been having a those who own buildings in relington that have been having a really that have been having a really difficult that have been having a really difficult time that have been having a really difficult time financing, that have been having a really difficult time financing, meeting difficult time financing, meeting the difficult time financing, meeting the standards. difficult time financing, meeting the standards. It's difficult time financing, meeting the standards. It's a difficult time financing, meeting the standards. It's a question difficult time financing, meeting the standards. It's a question that the standards. It's a question that I'm the standards. It's a question that I'm personally the standards. It's a question that I'm personally very the standards. It's a question that I'm personally very interested the standards. It's a question that I'm personally very interested in, I'm personally very interested in, and I'm personally very interested in, and I I'm personally very interested in, and I have I'm personally very interested in, and I have lived I'm personally very interested in, and I have lived in I'm personally very interested in, and I have lived in a I'm personally very interested in, and I have lived in a heritage and I have lived in a heritage apartment and I have lived in a heritage apartment building and I have lived in a heritage apartment building that and I have lived in a heritage apartment building that was and I have lived in a heritage apartment building that was 1% and I have lived in a heritage apartment building that was 1% above apartment building that was 1% above the apartment building that was 1% above the acceptable apartment building that was 1% above the acceptable MBS apartment building that was 1% above the acceptable MBS - apartment building that was 1% above the acceptable MBS - I apartment building that was 1% above the acceptable MBS - I think apartment building that was 1% above the acceptable MBS - I think it apartment building that was 1% above the acceptable MBS - I think it was the acceptable MBS - I think it was 38% the acceptable MBS - I think it was 38% or the acceptable MBS - I think it was 38% or something the acceptable MBS - I think it was 38% or something - the acceptable MBS - I think it was 38% or something - but, 38% or something - but, interestingly, 38% or something - but, interestingly, because 38% or something - but, interestingly, because it 38% or something - but, interestingly, because it was 38% or something - but, interestingly, because it was on interestingly, because it was on bedrock interestingly, because it was on bedrock in interestingly, because it was on bedrock in Mount interestingly, because it was on bedrock in Mount Victoria, interestingly, because it was on bedrock in Mount Victoria, it interestingly, because it was on bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to do bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to do fine bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to do fine over bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to do fine over the bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to do fine over the last bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to do fine over the last 80 bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to do fine over the last 80 years bedrock in Mount Victoria, it seemed to do fine over the last 80 years of to do fine over the last 80 years of earthquakes. to do fine over the last 80 years of earthquakes. Whereas to do fine over the last 80 years of earthquakes. Whereas some to do fine over the last 80 years of earthquakes. Whereas some more earthquakes. Whereas some more modern earthquakes. Whereas some more modern buildings earthquakes. Whereas some more modern buildings are earthquakes. Whereas some more modern buildings are built earthquakes. Whereas some more modern buildings are built on modern buildings are built on reclaimed modern buildings are built on reclaimed land modern buildings are built on reclaimed land in modern buildings are built on reclaimed land in Wellington modern buildings are built on reclaimed land in Wellington that reclaimed land in Wellington that were reclaimed land in Wellington that were at reclaimed land in Wellington that were at 100% reclaimed land in Wellington that were at 100% of reclaimed land in Wellington that were at 100% of MBS, reclaimed land in Wellington that were at 100% of MBS, didn't reclaimed land in Wellington that were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare reclaimed land in Wellington that were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare so were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare so well were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare so well in were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare so well in the were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare so well in the earthquake were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare so well in the earthquake impact were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare so well in the earthquake impact - were at 100% of MBS, didn't fare so well in the earthquake impact - in well in the earthquake impact - in fact, well in the earthquake impact - in fact, fared well in the earthquake impact - in fact, fared quite well in the earthquake impact - in fact, fared quite poorly. well in the earthquake impact - in fact, fared quite poorly. I'm fact, fared quite poorly. I'm interested fact, fared quite poorly. I'm interested to fact, fared quite poorly. I'm interested to understand fact, fared quite poorly. I'm interested to understand how fact, fared quite poorly. I'm interested to understand how we fact, fared quite poorly. I'm interested to understand how we can interested to understand how we can have interested to understand how we can have earthquake interested to understand how we can have earthquake standards interested to understand how we can have earthquake standards that have earthquake standards that genuinely have earthquake standards that genuinely reflect have earthquake standards that genuinely reflect the have earthquake standards that genuinely reflect the risk, have earthquake standards that genuinely reflect the risk, taking genuinely reflect the risk, taking into genuinely reflect the risk, taking into account genuinely reflect the risk, taking into account more genuinely reflect the risk, taking into account more than genuinely reflect the risk, taking into account more than just genuinely reflect the risk, taking into account more than just the into account more than just the building into account more than just the building itself, into account more than just the building itself, but into account more than just the building itself, but also into account more than just the building itself, but also the into account more than just the building itself, but also the ground building itself, but also the ground conditions, building itself, but also the ground conditions, and building itself, but also the ground conditions, and whether building itself, but also the ground conditions, and whether that building itself, but also the ground conditions, and whether that can building itself, but also the ground conditions, and whether that can be conditions, and whether that can be part conditions, and whether that can be part of conditions, and whether that can be part of the conditions, and whether that can be part of the solution. conditions, and whether that can be part of the solution. The conditions, and whether that can be part of the solution. The Greens part of the solution. The Greens have part of the solution. The Greens have actually part of the solution. The Greens have actually long part of the solution. The Greens have actually long recognised part of the solution. The Greens have actually long recognised in part of the solution. The Greens have actually long recognised in our have actually long recognised in our Artsen, have actually long recognised in our Artsen, Culture have actually long recognised in our Artsen, Culture and have actually long recognised in our Artsen, Culture and Heritage have actually long recognised in our Artsen, Culture and Heritage Policy Artsen, Culture and Heritage Policy that Artsen, Culture and Heritage Policy that the Artsen, Culture and Heritage Policy that the earthquake-strengthening that the earthquake-strengthening system that the earthquake-strengthening system is that the earthquake-strengthening system is cost-prohibitive that the earthquake-strengthening system is cost-prohibitive and that the earthquake-strengthening system is cost-prohibitive and leads system is cost-prohibitive and leads to system is cost-prohibitive and leads to buildings system is cost-prohibitive and leads to buildings being system is cost-prohibitive and leads to buildings being damaged system is cost-prohibitive and leads to buildings being damaged rather to buildings being damaged rather than to buildings being damaged rather than remediated, to buildings being damaged rather than remediated, which to buildings being damaged rather than remediated, which is to buildings being damaged rather than remediated, which is not to buildings being damaged rather than remediated, which is not always than remediated, which is not always a than remediated, which is not always a great than remediated, which is not always a great outcome. than remediated, which is not always a great outcome. One than remediated, which is not always a great outcome. One of than remediated, which is not always a great outcome. One of our than remediated, which is not always a great outcome. One of our policies a great outcome. One of our policies had a great outcome. One of our policies had been a great outcome. One of our policies had been recognising a great outcome. One of our policies had been recognising that, a great outcome. One of our policies had been recognising that, if a great outcome. One of our policies had been recognising that, if we had been recognising that, if we want had been recognising that, if we want to had been recognising that, if we want to address had been recognising that, if we want to address this had been recognising that, if we want to address this ash had been recognising that, if we want to address this ash one had been recognising that, if we want to address this ash one of want to address this ash one of those want to address this ash one of those things want to address this ash one of those things that want to address this ash one of those things that we want to address this ash one of those things that we address those things that we address together those things that we address together - those things that we address together - as those things that we address together - as a those things that we address together - as a community, those things that we address together - as a community, as those things that we address together - as a community, as a together - as a community, as a country together - as a community, as a country - together - as a community, as a country - and together - as a community, as a country - and Government together - as a community, as a country - and Government is country - and Government is well-placed country - and Government is well-placed to country - and Government is well-placed to help country - and Government is well-placed to help find country - and Government is well-placed to help find collective well-placed to help find collective solutions. well-placed to help find collective solutions. It's well-placed to help find collective solutions. It's going well-placed to help find collective solutions. It's going to well-placed to help find collective solutions. It's going to be well-placed to help find collective solutions. It's going to be a solutions. It's going to be a similar solutions. It's going to be a similar situation solutions. It's going to be a similar situation with solutions. It's going to be a similar situation with adapting solutions. It's going to be a similar situation with adapting to similar situation with adapting to climate similar situation with adapting to climate change similar situation with adapting to climate change and similar situation with adapting to climate change and dealing similar situation with adapting to climate change and dealing with climate change and dealing with severe climate change and dealing with severe weather climate change and dealing with severe weather events. climate change and dealing with severe weather events. If climate change and dealing with severe weather events. If we climate change and dealing with severe weather events. If we just severe weather events. If we just leave severe weather events. If we just leave it severe weather events. If we just leave it to severe weather events. If we just leave it to individuals, severe weather events. If we just leave it to individuals, a severe weather events. If we just leave it to individuals, a lot severe weather events. If we just leave it to individuals, a lot of leave it to individuals, a lot of people leave it to individuals, a lot of people are leave it to individuals, a lot of people are going leave it to individuals, a lot of people are going to leave it to individuals, a lot of people are going to be leave it to individuals, a lot of people are going to be in leave it to individuals, a lot of people are going to be in incredible people are going to be in incredible hardship. people are going to be in incredible hardship. And people are going to be in incredible hardship. And I people are going to be in incredible hardship. And I have people are going to be in incredible hardship. And I have a people are going to be in incredible hardship. And I have a constituent hardship. And I have a constituent who hardship. And I have a constituent who messaged hardship. And I have a constituent who messaged me hardship. And I have a constituent who messaged me specifically hardship. And I have a constituent who messaged me specifically about who messaged me specifically about the who messaged me specifically about the previous who messaged me specifically about the previous government's who messaged me specifically about the previous government's assistance the previous government's assistance programme the previous government's assistance programme that the previous government's assistance programme that was the previous government's assistance programme that was going the previous government's assistance programme that was going to the previous government's assistance programme that was going to help programme that was going to help with programme that was going to help with the programme that was going to help with the cost programme that was going to help with the cost of programme that was going to help with the cost of remediating with the cost of remediating building. with the cost of remediating building. She with the cost of remediating building. She was with the cost of remediating building. She was actually with the cost of remediating building. She was actually running building. She was actually running on building. She was actually running on behalf building. She was actually running on behalf of building. She was actually running on behalf of her building. She was actually running on behalf of her mother, building. She was actually running on behalf of her mother, who building. She was actually running on behalf of her mother, who also on behalf of her mother, who also lives on behalf of her mother, who also lives in on behalf of her mother, who also lives in the on behalf of her mother, who also lives in the electorate, on behalf of her mother, who also lives in the electorate, who on behalf of her mother, who also lives in the electorate, who is on behalf of her mother, who also lives in the electorate, who is on on behalf of her mother, who also lives in the electorate, who is on a lives in the electorate, who is on a fixed lives in the electorate, who is on a fixed income, lives in the electorate, who is on a fixed income, on lives in the electorate, who is on a fixed income, on her lives in the electorate, who is on a fixed income, on her pension, lives in the electorate, who is on a fixed income, on her pension, has fixed income, on her pension, has owned fixed income, on her pension, has owned this fixed income, on her pension, has owned this apartment fixed income, on her pension, has owned this apartment - fixed income, on her pension, has owned this apartment - it's fixed income, on her pension, has owned this apartment - it's her owned this apartment - it's her home, owned this apartment - it's her home, she owned this apartment - it's her home, she doesn't owned this apartment - it's her home, she doesn't want owned this apartment - it's her home, she doesn't want to owned this apartment - it's her home, she doesn't want to give owned this apartment - it's her home, she doesn't want to give it owned this apartment - it's her home, she doesn't want to give it up home, she doesn't want to give it up - home, she doesn't want to give it up - and home, she doesn't want to give it up - and found home, she doesn't want to give it up - and found herself home, she doesn't want to give it up - and found herself in home, she doesn't want to give it up - and found herself in a home, she doesn't want to give it up - and found herself in a situation - and found herself in a situation of - and found herself in a situation of needing - and found herself in a situation of needing to, - and found herself in a situation of needing to, alongside - and found herself in a situation of needing to, alongside the - and found herself in a situation of needing to, alongside the other of needing to, alongside the other owners of needing to, alongside the other owners of of needing to, alongside the other owners of the of needing to, alongside the other owners of the building, of needing to, alongside the other owners of the building, spend of needing to, alongside the other owners of the building, spend an owners of the building, spend an enormous owners of the building, spend an enormous amount. owners of the building, spend an enormous amount. Went owners of the building, spend an enormous amount. Went through owners of the building, spend an enormous amount. Went through all owners of the building, spend an enormous amount. Went through all of enormous amount. Went through all of the enormous amount. Went through all of the paperwork, enormous amount. Went through all of the paperwork, finally enormous amount. Went through all of the paperwork, finally got enormous amount. Went through all of the paperwork, finally got through the paperwork, finally got through all the paperwork, finally got through all the the paperwork, finally got through all the hurdles the paperwork, finally got through all the hurdles to the paperwork, finally got through all the hurdles to apply the paperwork, finally got through all the hurdles to apply for the paperwork, finally got through all the hurdles to apply for that all the hurdles to apply for that assistance all the hurdles to apply for that assistance fund, all the hurdles to apply for that assistance fund, and all the hurdles to apply for that assistance fund, and then all the hurdles to apply for that assistance fund, and then just all the hurdles to apply for that assistance fund, and then just as assistance fund, and then just as that assistance fund, and then just as that happened, assistance fund, and then just as that happened, it assistance fund, and then just as that happened, it was assistance fund, and then just as that happened, it was announced assistance fund, and then just as that happened, it was announced by that happened, it was announced by this that happened, it was announced by this Government that happened, it was announced by this Government that that happened, it was announced by this Government that they that happened, it was announced by this Government that they were this Government that they were cancelling this Government that they were cancelling the this Government that they were cancelling the assistance this Government that they were cancelling the assistance fund. this Government that they were cancelling the assistance fund. It cancelling the assistance fund. It may cancelling the assistance fund. It may have cancelling the assistance fund. It may have been cancelling the assistance fund. It may have been a cancelling the assistance fund. It may have been a small cancelling the assistance fund. It may have been a small number cancelling the assistance fund. It may have been a small number of may have been a small number of people may have been a small number of people and may have been a small number of people and I may have been a small number of people and I agree may have been a small number of people and I agree that may have been a small number of people and I agree that that may have been a small number of people and I agree that that fund people and I agree that that fund hadn't people and I agree that that fund hadn't gone people and I agree that that fund hadn't gone far people and I agree that that fund hadn't gone far enough people and I agree that that fund hadn't gone far enough to people and I agree that that fund hadn't gone far enough to address hadn't gone far enough to address the hadn't gone far enough to address the problem hadn't gone far enough to address the problem and hadn't gone far enough to address the problem and something hadn't gone far enough to address the problem and something needed hadn't gone far enough to address the problem and something needed to the problem and something needed to be the problem and something needed to be changed the problem and something needed to be changed there, the problem and something needed to be changed there, but the problem and something needed to be changed there, but I the problem and something needed to be changed there, but I think the problem and something needed to be changed there, but I think for be changed there, but I think for those be changed there, but I think for those people be changed there, but I think for those people who be changed there, but I think for those people who had be changed there, but I think for those people who had already be changed there, but I think for those people who had already put be changed there, but I think for those people who had already put a those people who had already put a lot those people who had already put a lot of those people who had already put a lot of time those people who had already put a lot of time and those people who had already put a lot of time and effort those people who had already put a lot of time and effort and those people who had already put a lot of time and effort and emotional lot of time and effort and emotional stress lot of time and effort and emotional stress they lot of time and effort and emotional stress they were lot of time and effort and emotional stress they were suffering lot of time and effort and emotional stress they were suffering from stress they were suffering from going stress they were suffering from going through stress they were suffering from going through this stress they were suffering from going through this effort stress they were suffering from going through this effort to stress they were suffering from going through this effort to try stress they were suffering from going through this effort to try and going through this effort to try and access going through this effort to try and access that going through this effort to try and access that fund, going through this effort to try and access that fund, to going through this effort to try and access that fund, to have going through this effort to try and access that fund, to have it going through this effort to try and access that fund, to have it taken access that fund, to have it taken away access that fund, to have it taken away like access that fund, to have it taken away like that, access that fund, to have it taken away like that, I access that fund, to have it taken away like that, I think, access that fund, to have it taken away like that, I think, was away like that, I think, was unfortunate, away like that, I think, was unfortunate, and away like that, I think, was unfortunate, and I away like that, I think, was unfortunate, and I don't away like that, I think, was unfortunate, and I don't think away like that, I think, was unfortunate, and I don't think that unfortunate, and I don't think that this unfortunate, and I don't think that this legislation unfortunate, and I don't think that this legislation - unfortunate, and I don't think that this legislation - just unfortunate, and I don't think that this legislation - just extending this legislation - just extending the this legislation - just extending the timeframes this legislation - just extending the timeframes - this legislation - just extending the timeframes - doesn't this legislation - just extending the timeframes - doesn't address this legislation - just extending the timeframes - doesn't address the the timeframes - doesn't address the issue the timeframes - doesn't address the issue of the timeframes - doesn't address the issue of the the timeframes - doesn't address the issue of the compliance the timeframes - doesn't address the issue of the compliance costs the timeframes - doesn't address the issue of the compliance costs and the timeframes - doesn't address the issue of the compliance costs and of issue of the compliance costs and of how issue of the compliance costs and of how we issue of the compliance costs and of how we actually issue of the compliance costs and of how we actually achieve issue of the compliance costs and of how we actually achieve safer how we actually achieve safer buildings how we actually achieve safer buildings in how we actually achieve safer buildings in a how we actually achieve safer buildings in a sustainable how we actually achieve safer buildings in a sustainable way. buildings in a sustainable way. That's buildings in a sustainable way. That's something buildings in a sustainable way. That's something that buildings in a sustainable way. That's something that I buildings in a sustainable way. That's something that I think buildings in a sustainable way. That's something that I think we That's something that I think we need That's something that I think we need to That's something that I think we need to be That's something that I think we need to be able That's something that I think we need to be able to That's something that I think we need to be able to tease That's something that I think we need to be able to tease out That's something that I think we need to be able to tease out in That's something that I think we need to be able to tease out in the need to be able to tease out in the select need to be able to tease out in the select committee need to be able to tease out in the select committee process, need to be able to tease out in the select committee process, and select committee process, and understand select committee process, and understand - select committee process, and understand - we select committee process, and understand - we do select committee process, and understand - we do support select committee process, and understand - we do support this select committee process, and understand - we do support this at understand - we do support this at first understand - we do support this at first reading, understand - we do support this at first reading, and understand - we do support this at first reading, and we'll understand - we do support this at first reading, and we'll have understand - we do support this at first reading, and we'll have to understand - we do support this at first reading, and we'll have to see first reading, and we'll have to see what first reading, and we'll have to see what comes first reading, and we'll have to see what comes out first reading, and we'll have to see what comes out of first reading, and we'll have to see what comes out of that first reading, and we'll have to see what comes out of that select what comes out of that select committee what comes out of that select committee process. what comes out of that select committee process. I what comes out of that select committee process. I absolutely committee process. I absolutely understand committee process. I absolutely understand the committee process. I absolutely understand the discomfort committee process. I absolutely understand the discomfort with committee process. I absolutely understand the discomfort with the understand the discomfort with the select understand the discomfort with the select committee understand the discomfort with the select committee process understand the discomfort with the select committee process being select committee process being shorter. select committee process being shorter. Ideally, select committee process being shorter. Ideally, it select committee process being shorter. Ideally, it would select committee process being shorter. Ideally, it would have select committee process being shorter. Ideally, it would have been shorter. Ideally, it would have been longer shorter. Ideally, it would have been longer than shorter. Ideally, it would have been longer than 2.5 shorter. Ideally, it would have been longer than 2.5 months. shorter. Ideally, it would have been longer than 2.5 months. However, shorter. Ideally, it would have been longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 months longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 months is longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 months is a longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 months is a lot longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 months is a lot better longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 months is a lot better than longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 months is a lot better than 10 longer than 2.5 months. However, 2.5 months is a lot better than 10 days, months is a lot better than 10 days, as months is a lot better than 10 days, as has months is a lot better than 10 days, as has been months is a lot better than 10 days, as has been the months is a lot better than 10 days, as has been the case months is a lot better than 10 days, as has been the case for months is a lot better than 10 days, as has been the case for some months is a lot better than 10 days, as has been the case for some other as has been the case for some other legislation as has been the case for some other legislation we've as has been the case for some other legislation we've seen as has been the case for some other legislation we've seen earlier as has been the case for some other legislation we've seen earlier this legislation we've seen earlier this year. legislation we've seen earlier this year. And legislation we've seen earlier this year. And so legislation we've seen earlier this year. And so we legislation we've seen earlier this year. And so we do legislation we've seen earlier this year. And so we do understand legislation we've seen earlier this year. And so we do understand that, year. And so we do understand that, because year. And so we do understand that, because of year. And so we do understand that, because of the year. And so we do understand that, because of the need year. And so we do understand that, because of the need to year. And so we do understand that, because of the need to meet year. And so we do understand that, because of the need to meet the because of the need to meet the deadline because of the need to meet the deadline and because of the need to meet the deadline and give because of the need to meet the deadline and give certainty because of the need to meet the deadline and give certainty to because of the need to meet the deadline and give certainty to so deadline and give certainty to so many deadline and give certainty to so many building deadline and give certainty to so many building owners deadline and give certainty to so many building owners and deadline and give certainty to so many building owners and so deadline and give certainty to so many building owners and so many many building owners and so many communities many building owners and so many communities - many building owners and so many communities - particularly many building owners and so many communities - particularly here many building owners and so many communities - particularly here in communities - particularly here in Wellington, communities - particularly here in Wellington, but communities - particularly here in Wellington, but also communities - particularly here in Wellington, but also right communities - particularly here in Wellington, but also right across Wellington, but also right across the Wellington, but also right across the country Wellington, but also right across the country in Wellington, but also right across the country in rural Wellington, but also right across the country in rural towns Wellington, but also right across the country in rural towns as Wellington, but also right across the country in rural towns as well Wellington, but also right across the country in rural towns as well - the country in rural towns as well - we the country in rural towns as well - we can the country in rural towns as well - we can accept, the country in rural towns as well - we can accept, I the country in rural towns as well - we can accept, I think, the country in rural towns as well - we can accept, I think, the we can accept, I think, the 2.5-month we can accept, I think, the 2.5-month select we can accept, I think, the 2.5-month select committee we can accept, I think, the 2.5-month select committee process. 2.5-month select committee process. As 2.5-month select committee process. As has 2.5-month select committee process. As has been 2.5-month select committee process. As has been said 2.5-month select committee process. As has been said by 2.5-month select committee process. As has been said by the 2.5-month select committee process. As has been said by the Minister, 2.5-month select committee process. As has been said by the Minister, we As has been said by the Minister, we can't As has been said by the Minister, we can't really As has been said by the Minister, we can't really assess As has been said by the Minister, we can't really assess the As has been said by the Minister, we can't really assess the risk As has been said by the Minister, we can't really assess the risk of can't really assess the risk of extending can't really assess the risk of extending the can't really assess the risk of extending the timeframes can't really assess the risk of extending the timeframes against can't really assess the risk of extending the timeframes against a extending the timeframes against a perfect extending the timeframes against a perfect scenario extending the timeframes against a perfect scenario where extending the timeframes against a perfect scenario where all extending the timeframes against a perfect scenario where all of extending the timeframes against a perfect scenario where all of those perfect scenario where all of those buildings perfect scenario where all of those buildings were perfect scenario where all of those buildings were remediated perfect scenario where all of those buildings were remediated by perfect scenario where all of those buildings were remediated by the buildings were remediated by the timeframes, buildings were remediated by the timeframes, because buildings were remediated by the timeframes, because 80% buildings were remediated by the timeframes, because 80% of buildings were remediated by the timeframes, because 80% of them buildings were remediated by the timeframes, because 80% of them were timeframes, because 80% of them were not timeframes, because 80% of them were not going timeframes, because 80% of them were not going to timeframes, because 80% of them were not going to be. timeframes, because 80% of them were not going to be. But timeframes, because 80% of them were not going to be. But we timeframes, because 80% of them were not going to be. But we do timeframes, because 80% of them were not going to be. But we do need timeframes, because 80% of them were not going to be. But we do need to not going to be. But we do need to work not going to be. But we do need to work together, not going to be. But we do need to work together, I not going to be. But we do need to work together, I think, not going to be. But we do need to work together, I think, to not going to be. But we do need to work together, I think, to find not going to be. But we do need to work together, I think, to find a work together, I think, to find a truly work together, I think, to find a truly sustainable work together, I think, to find a truly sustainable solution work together, I think, to find a truly sustainable solution that work together, I think, to find a truly sustainable solution that is truly sustainable solution that is going truly sustainable solution that is going to truly sustainable solution that is going to look truly sustainable solution that is going to look out truly sustainable solution that is going to look out for truly sustainable solution that is going to look out for our truly sustainable solution that is going to look out for our people. truly sustainable solution that is going to look out for our people. We going to look out for our people. We are going to look out for our people. We are a going to look out for our people. We are a country going to look out for our people. We are a country that going to look out for our people. We are a country that is going to look out for our people. We are a country that is very going to look out for our people. We are a country that is very much are a country that is very much affected are a country that is very much affected by are a country that is very much affected by seismic are a country that is very much affected by seismic risk. are a country that is very much affected by seismic risk. There are a country that is very much affected by seismic risk. There are affected by seismic risk. There are many affected by seismic risk. There are many other affected by seismic risk. There are many other countries affected by seismic risk. There are many other countries that affected by seismic risk. There are many other countries that have many other countries that have learned many other countries that have learned to many other countries that have learned to live many other countries that have learned to live with many other countries that have learned to live with this, many other countries that have learned to live with this, and many other countries that have learned to live with this, and I learned to live with this, and I hope learned to live with this, and I hope that learned to live with this, and I hope that we learned to live with this, and I hope that we can learned to live with this, and I hope that we can get learned to live with this, and I hope that we can get better learned to live with this, and I hope that we can get better building hope that we can get better building codes hope that we can get better building codes and hope that we can get better building codes and better hope that we can get better building codes and better funding hope that we can get better building codes and better funding and codes and better funding and insurance codes and better funding and insurance options codes and better funding and insurance options for codes and better funding and insurance options for peel codes and better funding and insurance options for peel through insurance options for peel through this insurance options for peel through this process. insurance options for peel through this process. I insurance options for peel through this process. I call insurance options for peel through this process. I call on insurance options for peel through this process. I call on Cameron this process. I call on Cameron Luxton. this process. I call on Cameron Luxton. Much this process. I call on Cameron Luxton. Much like this process. I call on Cameron Luxton. Much like the this process. I call on Cameron Luxton. Much like the previous this process. I call on Cameron Luxton. Much like the previous two Luxton. Much like the previous two speakers, Luxton. Much like the previous two speakers, I Luxton. Much like the previous two speakers, I too Luxton. Much like the previous two speakers, I too am Luxton. Much like the previous two speakers, I too am a Luxton. Much like the previous two speakers, I too am a member Luxton. Much like the previous two speakers, I too am a member of Luxton. Much like the previous two speakers, I too am a member of the speakers, I too am a member of the Transport speakers, I too am a member of the Transport and speakers, I too am a member of the Transport and Infrastructure Transport and Infrastructure Committee Transport and Infrastructure Committee - Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a great Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a great committee Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a great committee - Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a great committee - and Committee - a great committee - and I Committee - a great committee - and I suspect Committee - a great committee - and I suspect the Committee - a great committee - and I suspect the following Committee - a great committee - and I suspect the following speakers I suspect the following speakers from I suspect the following speakers from New I suspect the following speakers from New Zealand I suspect the following speakers from New Zealand First I suspect the following speakers from New Zealand First and I suspect the following speakers from New Zealand First and National from New Zealand First and National may from New Zealand First and National may well from New Zealand First and National may well be from New Zealand First and National may well be members from New Zealand First and National may well be members as from New Zealand First and National may well be members as well. from New Zealand First and National may well be members as well. Looking may well be members as well. Looking forward may well be members as well. Looking forward to may well be members as well. Looking forward to seeing may well be members as well. Looking forward to seeing this may well be members as well. Looking forward to seeing this bill may well be members as well. Looking forward to seeing this bill at forward to seeing this bill at select forward to seeing this bill at select committee forward to seeing this bill at select committee and, forward to seeing this bill at select committee and, therefore, forward to seeing this bill at select committee and, therefore, ACT select committee and, therefore, ACT is select committee and, therefore, ACT is proud select committee and, therefore, ACT is proud to select committee and, therefore, ACT is proud to be select committee and, therefore, ACT is proud to be supporting select committee and, therefore, ACT is proud to be supporting this select committee and, therefore, ACT is proud to be supporting this bill is proud to be supporting this bill past is proud to be supporting this bill past first is proud to be supporting this bill past first reading. is proud to be supporting this bill past first reading. I is proud to be supporting this bill past first reading. I think is proud to be supporting this bill past first reading. I think it's is proud to be supporting this bill past first reading. I think it's a past first reading. I think it's a pragmatic past first reading. I think it's a pragmatic bill past first reading. I think it's a pragmatic bill that past first reading. I think it's a pragmatic bill that the past first reading. I think it's a pragmatic bill that the Minister past first reading. I think it's a pragmatic bill that the Minister has pragmatic bill that the Minister has brought pragmatic bill that the Minister has brought forward. pragmatic bill that the Minister has brought forward. There's pragmatic bill that the Minister has brought forward. There's a pragmatic bill that the Minister has brought forward. There's a few brought forward. There's a few things brought forward. There's a few things that brought forward. There's a few things that need brought forward. There's a few things that need tidying brought forward. There's a few things that need tidying up brought forward. There's a few things that need tidying up in brought forward. There's a few things that need tidying up in our things that need tidying up in our building things that need tidying up in our building legislation, things that need tidying up in our building legislation, and things that need tidying up in our building legislation, and this things that need tidying up in our building legislation, and this is building legislation, and this is seeking building legislation, and this is seeking to building legislation, and this is seeking to address building legislation, and this is seeking to address some building legislation, and this is seeking to address some of building legislation, and this is seeking to address some of it. seeking to address some of it. Specifically, seeking to address some of it. Specifically, the Specifically, the earthquake-strengthening Specifically, the earthquake-strengthening issues Specifically, the earthquake-strengthening issues that earthquake-strengthening issues that we earthquake-strengthening issues that we have earthquake-strengthening issues that we have in earthquake-strengthening issues that we have in New earthquake-strengthening issues that we have in New Zealand. earthquake-strengthening issues that we have in New Zealand. There's earthquake-strengthening issues that we have in New Zealand. There's a we have in New Zealand. There's a lot we have in New Zealand. There's a lot of we have in New Zealand. There's a lot of angst we have in New Zealand. There's a lot of angst out we have in New Zealand. There's a lot of angst out in we have in New Zealand. There's a lot of angst out in the we have in New Zealand. There's a lot of angst out in the community we have in New Zealand. There's a lot of angst out in the community - lot of angst out in the community - small lot of angst out in the community - small towns lot of angst out in the community - small towns and lot of angst out in the community - small towns and large lot of angst out in the community - small towns and large cities lot of angst out in the community - small towns and large cities - lot of angst out in the community - small towns and large cities - about small towns and large cities - about the small towns and large cities - about the current small towns and large cities - about the current regime small towns and large cities - about the current regime for the current regime for earthquake-strengthening the current regime for earthquake-strengthening and the current regime for earthquake-strengthening and the earthquake-strengthening and the timelines earthquake-strengthening and the timelines around earthquake-strengthening and the timelines around that. earthquake-strengthening and the timelines around that. So earthquake-strengthening and the timelines around that. So I timelines around that. So I congratulate timelines around that. So I congratulate the timelines around that. So I congratulate the Minister timelines around that. So I congratulate the Minister on congratulate the Minister on extending congratulate the Minister on extending that congratulate the Minister on extending that to congratulate the Minister on extending that to give congratulate the Minister on extending that to give some extending that to give some certainty extending that to give some certainty to extending that to give some certainty to the extending that to give some certainty to the industry, certainty to the industry, especially certainty to the industry, especially since certainty to the industry, especially since making certainty to the industry, especially since making that especially since making that announcement especially since making that announcement that especially since making that announcement that there especially since making that announcement that there would especially since making that announcement that there would be announcement that there would be some announcement that there would be some extensions announcement that there would be some extensions available announcement that there would be some extensions available back announcement that there would be some extensions available back in some extensions available back in April. some extensions available back in April. I some extensions available back in April. I think some extensions available back in April. I think this some extensions available back in April. I think this is some extensions available back in April. I think this is going some extensions available back in April. I think this is going to some extensions available back in April. I think this is going to be April. I think this is going to be well-received April. I think this is going to be well-received by April. I think this is going to be well-received by building April. I think this is going to be well-received by building owners April. I think this is going to be well-received by building owners up well-received by building owners up and well-received by building owners up and down well-received by building owners up and down the well-received by building owners up and down the country well-received by building owners up and down the country who well-received by building owners up and down the country who have well-received by building owners up and down the country who have been and down the country who have been seeking and down the country who have been seeking some and down the country who have been seeking some clarity. and down the country who have been seeking some clarity. Clarity and down the country who have been seeking some clarity. Clarity will seeking some clarity. Clarity will be seeking some clarity. Clarity will be coming, seeking some clarity. Clarity will be coming, because seeking some clarity. Clarity will be coming, because local seeking some clarity. Clarity will be coming, because local councils be coming, because local councils will be coming, because local councils will be be coming, because local councils will be - be coming, because local councils will be - will be coming, because local councils will be - will need be coming, because local councils will be - will need to be coming, because local councils will be - will need to be be coming, because local councils will be - will need to be required will be - will need to be required to will be - will need to be required to reissue will be - will need to be required to reissue their will be - will need to be required to reissue their earthquake-prone to reissue their earthquake-prone building to reissue their earthquake-prone building notices to reissue their earthquake-prone building notices so to reissue their earthquake-prone building notices so that to reissue their earthquake-prone building notices so that that to reissue their earthquake-prone building notices so that that means, building notices so that that means, if building notices so that that means, if you building notices so that that means, if you are building notices so that that means, if you are a building notices so that that means, if you are a building building notices so that that means, if you are a building owner building notices so that that means, if you are a building owner out if you are a building owner out there if you are a building owner out there and if you are a building owner out there and you're if you are a building owner out there and you're worried if you are a building owner out there and you're worried about if you are a building owner out there and you're worried about how there and you're worried about how it's there and you're worried about how it's going there and you're worried about how it's going to there and you're worried about how it's going to affect there and you're worried about how it's going to affect you, there and you're worried about how it's going to affect you, your it's going to affect you, your council it's going to affect you, your council needs it's going to affect you, your council needs to it's going to affect you, your council needs to be it's going to affect you, your council needs to be in it's going to affect you, your council needs to be in contact it's going to affect you, your council needs to be in contact with council needs to be in contact with you. council needs to be in contact with you. The council needs to be in contact with you. The purpose council needs to be in contact with you. The purpose of council needs to be in contact with you. The purpose of a council needs to be in contact with you. The purpose of a bill council needs to be in contact with you. The purpose of a bill like council needs to be in contact with you. The purpose of a bill like this you. The purpose of a bill like this should you. The purpose of a bill like this should be you. The purpose of a bill like this should be about you. The purpose of a bill like this should be about improving you. The purpose of a bill like this should be about improving safety you. The purpose of a bill like this should be about improving safety and should be about improving safety and compliance, should be about improving safety and compliance, not should be about improving safety and compliance, not making should be about improving safety and compliance, not making it should be about improving safety and compliance, not making it harder. should be about improving safety and compliance, not making it harder. I compliance, not making it harder. I think compliance, not making it harder. I think having compliance, not making it harder. I think having a compliance, not making it harder. I think having a review compliance, not making it harder. I think having a review to compliance, not making it harder. I think having a review to actually think having a review to actually reassess think having a review to actually reassess where think having a review to actually reassess where we've think having a review to actually reassess where we've got think having a review to actually reassess where we've got to think having a review to actually reassess where we've got to over think having a review to actually reassess where we've got to over the reassess where we've got to over the last reassess where we've got to over the last decade reassess where we've got to over the last decade with reassess where we've got to over the last decade with our reassess where we've got to over the last decade with our regulations reassess where we've got to over the last decade with our regulations and last decade with our regulations and the last decade with our regulations and the codes last decade with our regulations and the codes and last decade with our regulations and the codes and the last decade with our regulations and the codes and the practices last decade with our regulations and the codes and the practices of last decade with our regulations and the codes and the practices of the the codes and the practices of the building the codes and the practices of the building industry, the codes and the practices of the building industry, the the codes and the practices of the building industry, the engineering building industry, the engineering fraternity, building industry, the engineering fraternity, and building industry, the engineering fraternity, and the building industry, the engineering fraternity, and the way building industry, the engineering fraternity, and the way they building industry, the engineering fraternity, and the way they assess fraternity, and the way they assess things fraternity, and the way they assess things such fraternity, and the way they assess things such as fraternity, and the way they assess things such as MBS fraternity, and the way they assess things such as MBS - fraternity, and the way they assess things such as MBS - the fraternity, and the way they assess things such as MBS - the way fraternity, and the way they assess things such as MBS - the way they things such as MBS - the way they use things such as MBS - the way they use the things such as MBS - the way they use the National things such as MBS - the way they use the National Building things such as MBS - the way they use the National Building Code use the National Building Code Standards use the National Building Code Standards - use the National Building Code Standards - to use the National Building Code Standards - to actually use the National Building Code Standards - to actually assess use the National Building Code Standards - to actually assess the Standards - to actually assess the earthquake-prone Standards - to actually assess the earthquake-prone or Standards - to actually assess the earthquake-prone or earthquake-risk earthquake-prone or earthquake-risk elements earthquake-prone or earthquake-risk elements of earthquake-prone or earthquake-risk elements of a earthquake-prone or earthquake-risk elements of a building earthquake-prone or earthquake-risk elements of a building - earthquake-prone or earthquake-risk elements of a building - I earthquake-prone or earthquake-risk elements of a building - I think elements of a building - I think it's elements of a building - I think it's something elements of a building - I think it's something that elements of a building - I think it's something that - elements of a building - I think it's something that - there's elements of a building - I think it's something that - there's some it's something that - there's some great it's something that - there's some great stuff it's something that - there's some great stuff happening it's something that - there's some great stuff happening in it's something that - there's some great stuff happening in this great stuff happening in this review, great stuff happening in this review, and great stuff happening in this review, and tidying great stuff happening in this review, and tidying up great stuff happening in this review, and tidying up the great stuff happening in this review, and tidying up the other review, and tidying up the other things review, and tidying up the other things that review, and tidying up the other things that the review, and tidying up the other things that the Building review, and tidying up the other things that the Building Act review, and tidying up the other things that the Building Act needs things that the Building Act needs tidied things that the Building Act needs tidied up things that the Building Act needs tidied up at things that the Building Act needs tidied up at the things that the Building Act needs tidied up at the end things that the Building Act needs tidied up at the end is things that the Building Act needs tidied up at the end is a things that the Building Act needs tidied up at the end is a very things that the Building Act needs tidied up at the end is a very good tidied up at the end is a very good use tidied up at the end is a very good use of tidied up at the end is a very good use of a tidied up at the end is a very good use of a bill tidied up at the end is a very good use of a bill like tidied up at the end is a very good use of a bill like this. tidied up at the end is a very good use of a bill like this. I tidied up at the end is a very good use of a bill like this. I do tidied up at the end is a very good use of a bill like this. I do think use of a bill like this. I do think that use of a bill like this. I do think that we use of a bill like this. I do think that we have use of a bill like this. I do think that we have an use of a bill like this. I do think that we have an issue, use of a bill like this. I do think that we have an issue, I use of a bill like this. I do think that we have an issue, I believe, that we have an issue, I believe, that that we have an issue, I believe, that needs that we have an issue, I believe, that needs to that we have an issue, I believe, that needs to be that we have an issue, I believe, that needs to be addressed, that we have an issue, I believe, that needs to be addressed, and that we have an issue, I believe, that needs to be addressed, and the that needs to be addressed, and the confidence that needs to be addressed, and the confidence in that needs to be addressed, and the confidence in the that needs to be addressed, and the confidence in the NBS that needs to be addressed, and the confidence in the NBS ratings. that needs to be addressed, and the confidence in the NBS ratings. As confidence in the NBS ratings. As the confidence in the NBS ratings. As the previous confidence in the NBS ratings. As the previous speaker confidence in the NBS ratings. As the previous speaker mentioned, confidence in the NBS ratings. As the previous speaker mentioned, one the previous speaker mentioned, one point the previous speaker mentioned, one point above the previous speaker mentioned, one point above the the previous speaker mentioned, one point above the National the previous speaker mentioned, one point above the National Building point above the National Building Standard point above the National Building Standard of point above the National Building Standard of 34% point above the National Building Standard of 34% means point above the National Building Standard of 34% means that point above the National Building Standard of 34% means that you point above the National Building Standard of 34% means that you can Standard of 34% means that you can be Standard of 34% means that you can be - Standard of 34% means that you can be - there's Standard of 34% means that you can be - there's a Standard of 34% means that you can be - there's a difference Standard of 34% means that you can be - there's a difference between Standard of 34% means that you can be - there's a difference between an be - there's a difference between an uncompliant be - there's a difference between an uncompliant building be - there's a difference between an uncompliant building and be - there's a difference between an uncompliant building and a be - there's a difference between an uncompliant building and a compliant uncompliant building and a compliant building. uncompliant building and a compliant building. We uncompliant building and a compliant building. We need uncompliant building and a compliant building. We need to uncompliant building and a compliant building. We need to have uncompliant building and a compliant building. We need to have confidence building. We need to have confidence that building. We need to have confidence that that building. We need to have confidence that that is building. We need to have confidence that that is not building. We need to have confidence that that is not being building. We need to have confidence that that is not being applied that that is not being applied differently that that is not being applied differently across that that is not being applied differently across the that that is not being applied differently across the country that that is not being applied differently across the country by differently across the country by different differently across the country by different engineering differently across the country by different engineering outfits, differently across the country by different engineering outfits, that different engineering outfits, that there different engineering outfits, that there is different engineering outfits, that there is some different engineering outfits, that there is some trust different engineering outfits, that there is some trust in different engineering outfits, that there is some trust in the different engineering outfits, that there is some trust in the scheme there is some trust in the scheme such there is some trust in the scheme such as there is some trust in the scheme such as that, there is some trust in the scheme such as that, because there is some trust in the scheme such as that, because on there is some trust in the scheme such as that, because on one there is some trust in the scheme such as that, because on one hand, such as that, because on one hand, it such as that, because on one hand, it can such as that, because on one hand, it can be such as that, because on one hand, it can be 33% such as that, because on one hand, it can be 33% to such as that, because on one hand, it can be 33% to 34% such as that, because on one hand, it can be 33% to 34% is such as that, because on one hand, it can be 33% to 34% is a it can be 33% to 34% is a requirement it can be 33% to 34% is a requirement to it can be 33% to 34% is a requirement to remediate it can be 33% to 34% is a requirement to remediate or it can be 33% to 34% is a requirement to remediate or not, it can be 33% to 34% is a requirement to remediate or not, but requirement to remediate or not, but that requirement to remediate or not, but that other requirement to remediate or not, but that other end, requirement to remediate or not, but that other end, the requirement to remediate or not, but that other end, the difference that other end, the difference between that other end, the difference between 66% that other end, the difference between 66% and that other end, the difference between 66% and 67% that other end, the difference between 66% and 67% means that other end, the difference between 66% and 67% means that that other end, the difference between 66% and 67% means that a between 66% and 67% means that a bank between 66% and 67% means that a bank might between 66% and 67% means that a bank might not between 66% and 67% means that a bank might not lend, between 66% and 67% means that a bank might not lend, therefore between 66% and 67% means that a bank might not lend, therefore you bank might not lend, therefore you can't bank might not lend, therefore you can't sell bank might not lend, therefore you can't sell your bank might not lend, therefore you can't sell your building bank might not lend, therefore you can't sell your building to bank might not lend, therefore you can't sell your building to someone can't sell your building to someone who's can't sell your building to someone who's unable can't sell your building to someone who's unable to can't sell your building to someone who's unable to get can't sell your building to someone who's unable to get a can't sell your building to someone who's unable to get a mortgage can't sell your building to someone who's unable to get a mortgage and who's unable to get a mortgage and things who's unable to get a mortgage and things like who's unable to get a mortgage and things like that. who's unable to get a mortgage and things like that. There's who's unable to get a mortgage and things like that. There's a who's unable to get a mortgage and things like that. There's a lot things like that. There's a lot of... things like that. There's a lot of... Yeah, things like that. There's a lot of... Yeah, so things like that. There's a lot of... Yeah, so these things like that. There's a lot of... Yeah, so these single-digit of... Yeah, so these single-digit changes of... Yeah, so these single-digit changes in of... Yeah, so these single-digit changes in the of... Yeah, so these single-digit changes in the rating of... Yeah, so these single-digit changes in the rating of of... Yeah, so these single-digit changes in the rating of a of... Yeah, so these single-digit changes in the rating of a building changes in the rating of a building are changes in the rating of a building are very changes in the rating of a building are very important changes in the rating of a building are very important and changes in the rating of a building are very important and can changes in the rating of a building are very important and can lead changes in the rating of a building are very important and can lead to changes in the rating of a building are very important and can lead to a are very important and can lead to a massive are very important and can lead to a massive change are very important and can lead to a massive change for are very important and can lead to a massive change for a are very important and can lead to a massive change for a building are very important and can lead to a massive change for a building owner. massive change for a building owner. I massive change for a building owner. I think massive change for a building owner. I think we massive change for a building owner. I think we need massive change for a building owner. I think we need to massive change for a building owner. I think we need to have massive change for a building owner. I think we need to have confidence massive change for a building owner. I think we need to have confidence - I think we need to have confidence - building I think we need to have confidence - building owners I think we need to have confidence - building owners and I think we need to have confidence - building owners and the I think we need to have confidence - building owners and the industry building owners and the industry itself building owners and the industry itself - building owners and the industry itself - we building owners and the industry itself - we need building owners and the industry itself - we need to building owners and the industry itself - we need to have building owners and the industry itself - we need to have confidence itself - we need to have confidence in itself - we need to have confidence in that. itself - we need to have confidence in that. As itself - we need to have confidence in that. As I itself - we need to have confidence in that. As I say, itself - we need to have confidence in that. As I say, this itself - we need to have confidence in that. As I say, this is itself - we need to have confidence in that. As I say, this is tidying in that. As I say, this is tidying up in that. As I say, this is tidying up some in that. As I say, this is tidying up some great in that. As I say, this is tidying up some great things, in that. As I say, this is tidying up some great things, which in that. As I say, this is tidying up some great things, which are up some great things, which are great up some great things, which are great - up some great things, which are great - but up some great things, which are great - but ACT up some great things, which are great - but ACT sees up some great things, which are great - but ACT sees a up some great things, which are great - but ACT sees a building great - but ACT sees a building industry great - but ACT sees a building industry that great - but ACT sees a building industry that is great - but ACT sees a building industry that is proportionate great - but ACT sees a building industry that is proportionate to industry that is proportionate to the industry that is proportionate to the risk. industry that is proportionate to the risk. We industry that is proportionate to the risk. We don't industry that is proportionate to the risk. We don't want industry that is proportionate to the risk. We don't want to industry that is proportionate to the risk. We don't want to have industry that is proportionate to the risk. We don't want to have a the risk. We don't want to have a ratchet the risk. We don't want to have a ratchet effect the risk. We don't want to have a ratchet effect of the risk. We don't want to have a ratchet effect of councils the risk. We don't want to have a ratchet effect of councils pushing ratchet effect of councils pushing up ratchet effect of councils pushing up compliance, ratchet effect of councils pushing up compliance, which ratchet effect of councils pushing up compliance, which then ratchet effect of councils pushing up compliance, which then engineers up compliance, which then engineers push up compliance, which then engineers push up up compliance, which then engineers push up compliance up compliance, which then engineers push up compliance and up compliance, which then engineers push up compliance and banks up compliance, which then engineers push up compliance and banks push up compliance, which then engineers push up compliance and banks push up push up compliance and banks push up compliance push up compliance and banks push up compliance and push up compliance and banks push up compliance and we push up compliance and banks push up compliance and we end push up compliance and banks push up compliance and we end up compliance and we end up overengineering compliance and we end up overengineering ourselves compliance and we end up overengineering ourselves out compliance and we end up overengineering ourselves out of overengineering ourselves out of existence overengineering ourselves out of existence to overengineering ourselves out of existence to the overengineering ourselves out of existence to the point overengineering ourselves out of existence to the point when overengineering ourselves out of existence to the point when our existence to the point when our civilisation existence to the point when our civilisation is existence to the point when our civilisation is gone, existence to the point when our civilisation is gone, they existence to the point when our civilisation is gone, they can existence to the point when our civilisation is gone, they can see civilisation is gone, they can see the civilisation is gone, they can see the expensive civilisation is gone, they can see the expensive buildings civilisation is gone, they can see the expensive buildings that, civilisation is gone, they can see the expensive buildings that, at civilisation is gone, they can see the expensive buildings that, at the the expensive buildings that, at the time, the expensive buildings that, at the time, cost the expensive buildings that, at the time, cost a the expensive buildings that, at the time, cost a fortune the expensive buildings that, at the time, cost a fortune and the expensive buildings that, at the time, cost a fortune and may the expensive buildings that, at the time, cost a fortune and may have time, cost a fortune and may have been time, cost a fortune and may have been great time, cost a fortune and may have been great for time, cost a fortune and may have been great for archaeologists time, cost a fortune and may have been great for archaeologists of time, cost a fortune and may have been great for archaeologists of the been great for archaeologists of the future been great for archaeologists of the future to been great for archaeologists of the future to look been great for archaeologists of the future to look at, been great for archaeologists of the future to look at, but been great for archaeologists of the future to look at, but actually been great for archaeologists of the future to look at, but actually - future to look at, but actually - was future to look at, but actually - was that future to look at, but actually - was that a future to look at, but actually - was that a good future to look at, but actually - was that a good use future to look at, but actually - was that a good use of future to look at, but actually - was that a good use of our future to look at, but actually - was that a good use of our funds future to look at, but actually - was that a good use of our funds on was that a good use of our funds on the was that a good use of our funds on the day? was that a good use of our funds on the day? So was that a good use of our funds on the day? So a was that a good use of our funds on the day? So a test was that a good use of our funds on the day? So a test of was that a good use of our funds on the day? So a test of reasonableness the day? So a test of reasonableness would the day? So a test of reasonableness would be the day? So a test of reasonableness would be greatly the day? So a test of reasonableness would be greatly appreciated the day? So a test of reasonableness would be greatly appreciated so the day? So a test of reasonableness would be greatly appreciated so we would be greatly appreciated so we don't would be greatly appreciated so we don't have would be greatly appreciated so we don't have layers would be greatly appreciated so we don't have layers of would be greatly appreciated so we don't have layers of protection would be greatly appreciated so we don't have layers of protection that don't have layers of protection that are don't have layers of protection that are just, don't have layers of protection that are just, like don't have layers of protection that are just, like I don't have layers of protection that are just, like I say, don't have layers of protection that are just, like I say, ratcheting are just, like I say, ratcheting each are just, like I say, ratcheting each other are just, like I say, ratcheting each other up. are just, like I say, ratcheting each other up. Designers are just, like I say, ratcheting each other up. Designers need are just, like I say, ratcheting each other up. Designers need to each other up. Designers need to have each other up. Designers need to have confidence each other up. Designers need to have confidence that each other up. Designers need to have confidence that what each other up. Designers need to have confidence that what they each other up. Designers need to have confidence that what they are have confidence that what they are designing have confidence that what they are designing is have confidence that what they are designing is actually have confidence that what they are designing is actually going have confidence that what they are designing is actually going to have confidence that what they are designing is actually going to leave designing is actually going to leave them designing is actually going to leave them in designing is actually going to leave them in a designing is actually going to leave them in a space designing is actually going to leave them in a space where designing is actually going to leave them in a space where they're designing is actually going to leave them in a space where they're not them in a space where they're not overburdening them in a space where they're not overburdening the them in a space where they're not overburdening the client them in a space where they're not overburdening the client who them in a space where they're not overburdening the client who then overburdening the client who then has overburdening the client who then has to overburdening the client who then has to pay overburdening the client who then has to pay for overburdening the client who then has to pay for this, overburdening the client who then has to pay for this, but overburdening the client who then has to pay for this, but at overburdening the client who then has to pay for this, but at the overburdening the client who then has to pay for this, but at the same has to pay for this, but at the same time has to pay for this, but at the same time are has to pay for this, but at the same time are providing has to pay for this, but at the same time are providing the has to pay for this, but at the same time are providing the necessary time are providing the necessary safeguards time are providing the necessary safeguards to time are providing the necessary safeguards to the time are providing the necessary safeguards to the occupants time are providing the necessary safeguards to the occupants of time are providing the necessary safeguards to the occupants of the safeguards to the occupants of the building, safeguards to the occupants of the building, whether safeguards to the occupants of the building, whether it's safeguards to the occupants of the building, whether it's during safeguards to the occupants of the building, whether it's during the building, whether it's during the day building, whether it's during the day or building, whether it's during the day or whether building, whether it's during the day or whether it's building, whether it's during the day or whether it's overnight. day or whether it's overnight. Because day or whether it's overnight. Because if day or whether it's overnight. Because if you day or whether it's overnight. Because if you are day or whether it's overnight. Because if you are staying day or whether it's overnight. Because if you are staying over day or whether it's overnight. Because if you are staying over in Because if you are staying over in the Because if you are staying over in the in Because if you are staying over in the in a Because if you are staying over in the in a building, Because if you are staying over in the in a building, you Because if you are staying over in the in a building, you need Because if you are staying over in the in a building, you need to Because if you are staying over in the in a building, you need to have the in a building, you need to have a the in a building, you need to have a high the in a building, you need to have a high degree the in a building, you need to have a high degree of the in a building, you need to have a high degree of confidence. the in a building, you need to have a high degree of confidence. But the in a building, you need to have a high degree of confidence. But I a high degree of confidence. But I think a high degree of confidence. But I think there a high degree of confidence. But I think there needs a high degree of confidence. But I think there needs to a high degree of confidence. But I think there needs to be a high degree of confidence. But I think there needs to be a think there needs to be a cost-benefit think there needs to be a cost-benefit done think there needs to be a cost-benefit done in think there needs to be a cost-benefit done in the think there needs to be a cost-benefit done in the entire cost-benefit done in the entire building cost-benefit done in the entire building industry, cost-benefit done in the entire building industry, and cost-benefit done in the entire building industry, and I cost-benefit done in the entire building industry, and I commend cost-benefit done in the entire building industry, and I commend the building industry, and I commend the Minister building industry, and I commend the Minister and building industry, and I commend the Minister and I building industry, and I commend the Minister and I commend building industry, and I commend the Minister and I commend this building industry, and I commend the Minister and I commend this bill building industry, and I commend the Minister and I commend this bill - building industry, and I commend the Minister and I commend this bill - I Minister and I commend this bill - I think Minister and I commend this bill - I think it's Minister and I commend this bill - I think it's a Minister and I commend this bill - I think it's a great Minister and I commend this bill - I think it's a great start. Minister and I commend this bill - I think it's a great start. Looking think it's a great start. Looking forward think it's a great start. Looking forward to think it's a great start. Looking forward to hearing think it's a great start. Looking forward to hearing about think it's a great start. Looking forward to hearing about it think it's a great start. Looking forward to hearing about it at forward to hearing about it at select forward to hearing about it at select committee. forward to hearing about it at select committee. Thank forward to hearing about it at select committee. Thank you, forward to hearing about it at select committee. Thank you, Mr select committee. Thank you, Mr Speaker. select committee. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I select committee. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I call select committee. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I call on select committee. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I call on Andy select committee. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I call on Andy Foster. Speaker. I call on Andy Foster. Thank Speaker. I call on Andy Foster. Thank you. Speaker. I call on Andy Foster. Thank you. Like Speaker. I call on Andy Foster. Thank you. Like my Speaker. I call on Andy Foster. Thank you. Like my colleagues Speaker. I call on Andy Foster. Thank you. Like my colleagues on Speaker. I call on Andy Foster. Thank you. Like my colleagues on the Thank you. Like my colleagues on the Transport Thank you. Like my colleagues on the Transport and Thank you. Like my colleagues on the Transport and Infrastructure Transport and Infrastructure Committee Transport and Infrastructure Committee - Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a very Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a very good Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a very good committee, Transport and Infrastructure Committee - a very good committee, a Committee - a very good committee, a very Committee - a very good committee, a very hardworking Committee - a very good committee, a very hardworking committee Committee - a very good committee, a very hardworking committee - Committee - a very good committee, a very hardworking committee - I'm very hardworking committee - I'm also very hardworking committee - I'm also going very hardworking committee - I'm also going to very hardworking committee - I'm also going to focus very hardworking committee - I'm also going to focus Noto very hardworking committee - I'm also going to focus Noto so very hardworking committee - I'm also going to focus Noto so much very hardworking committee - I'm also going to focus Noto so much on also going to focus Noto so much on the also going to focus Noto so much on the other also going to focus Noto so much on the other matters also going to focus Noto so much on the other matters in also going to focus Noto so much on the other matters in the also going to focus Noto so much on the other matters in the bill, also going to focus Noto so much on the other matters in the bill, but the other matters in the bill, but on the other matters in the bill, but on the the other matters in the bill, but on the issues the other matters in the bill, but on the issues around on the issues around earthquake-prone on the issues around earthquake-prone buildings. on the issues around earthquake-prone buildings. This earthquake-prone buildings. This bill earthquake-prone buildings. This bill is earthquake-prone buildings. This bill is good earthquake-prone buildings. This bill is good news, earthquake-prone buildings. This bill is good news, because earthquake-prone buildings. This bill is good news, because what earthquake-prone buildings. This bill is good news, because what it bill is good news, because what it does bill is good news, because what it does is bill is good news, because what it does is a bill is good news, because what it does is a pragmatic bill is good news, because what it does is a pragmatic approach bill is good news, because what it does is a pragmatic approach - bill is good news, because what it does is a pragmatic approach - it does is a pragmatic approach - it gives does is a pragmatic approach - it gives more does is a pragmatic approach - it gives more time does is a pragmatic approach - it gives more time to does is a pragmatic approach - it gives more time to building does is a pragmatic approach - it gives more time to building owners, gives more time to building owners, many gives more time to building owners, many of gives more time to building owners, many of whom gives more time to building owners, many of whom are gives more time to building owners, many of whom are - gives more time to building owners, many of whom are - as gives more time to building owners, many of whom are - as a many of whom are - as a Wellingtonian, many of whom are - as a Wellingtonian, I've many of whom are - as a Wellingtonian, I've spoken many of whom are - as a Wellingtonian, I've spoken with many of whom are - as a Wellingtonian, I've spoken with a Wellingtonian, I've spoken with a number Wellingtonian, I've spoken with a number of Wellingtonian, I've spoken with a number of building Wellingtonian, I've spoken with a number of building owners, Wellingtonian, I've spoken with a number of building owners, people number of building owners, people who number of building owners, people who live, number of building owners, people who live, particularly, number of building owners, people who live, particularly, in number of building owners, people who live, particularly, in apartment who live, particularly, in apartment buildings who live, particularly, in apartment buildings in who live, particularly, in apartment buildings in Central who live, particularly, in apartment buildings in Central City, who live, particularly, in apartment buildings in Central City, who who live, particularly, in apartment buildings in Central City, who are buildings in Central City, who are stressed buildings in Central City, who are stressed out buildings in Central City, who are stressed out about buildings in Central City, who are stressed out about the buildings in Central City, who are stressed out about the arrangements stressed out about the arrangements as stressed out about the arrangements as they stressed out about the arrangements as they are stressed out about the arrangements as they are at stressed out about the arrangements as they are at the stressed out about the arrangements as they are at the moment, stressed out about the arrangements as they are at the moment, trying stressed out about the arrangements as they are at the moment, trying to as they are at the moment, trying to work as they are at the moment, trying to work out as they are at the moment, trying to work out how as they are at the moment, trying to work out how they as they are at the moment, trying to work out how they can as they are at the moment, trying to work out how they can possibly work out how they can possibly afford work out how they can possibly afford to work out how they can possibly afford to do work out how they can possibly afford to do the work out how they can possibly afford to do the strengthening work out how they can possibly afford to do the strengthening that afford to do the strengthening that needs afford to do the strengthening that needs to afford to do the strengthening that needs to be afford to do the strengthening that needs to be done, afford to do the strengthening that needs to be done, especially afford to do the strengthening that needs to be done, especially when needs to be done, especially when their needs to be done, especially when their insurance needs to be done, especially when their insurance costs needs to be done, especially when their insurance costs are needs to be done, especially when their insurance costs are also needs to be done, especially when their insurance costs are also going their insurance costs are also going through their insurance costs are also going through the their insurance costs are also going through the roof. their insurance costs are also going through the roof. And their insurance costs are also going through the roof. And also, their insurance costs are also going through the roof. And also, those through the roof. And also, those issues through the roof. And also, those issues of through the roof. And also, those issues of certainty through the roof. And also, those issues of certainty around through the roof. And also, those issues of certainty around regular issues of certainty around regular changes issues of certainty around regular changes which issues of certainty around regular changes which we've issues of certainty around regular changes which we've already issues of certainty around regular changes which we've already heard. changes which we've already heard. It's changes which we've already heard. It's not changes which we've already heard. It's not just changes which we've already heard. It's not just the changes which we've already heard. It's not just the confidence, changes which we've already heard. It's not just the confidence, as changes which we've already heard. It's not just the confidence, as my It's not just the confidence, as my colleague It's not just the confidence, as my colleague Cam It's not just the confidence, as my colleague Cam Luxton It's not just the confidence, as my colleague Cam Luxton has It's not just the confidence, as my colleague Cam Luxton has just It's not just the confidence, as my colleague Cam Luxton has just said, colleague Cam Luxton has just said, about colleague Cam Luxton has just said, about the colleague Cam Luxton has just said, about the rating colleague Cam Luxton has just said, about the rating of colleague Cam Luxton has just said, about the rating of a colleague Cam Luxton has just said, about the rating of a building colleague Cam Luxton has just said, about the rating of a building - about the rating of a building - whether about the rating of a building - whether it's about the rating of a building - whether it's 33% about the rating of a building - whether it's 33% or about the rating of a building - whether it's 33% or % about the rating of a building - whether it's 33% or % or about the rating of a building - whether it's 33% or % or some about the rating of a building - whether it's 33% or % or some other whether it's 33% or % or some other number whether it's 33% or % or some other number - whether it's 33% or % or some other number - it's whether it's 33% or % or some other number - it's whether whether it's 33% or % or some other number - it's whether the whether it's 33% or % or some other number - it's whether the building number - it's whether the building standards number - it's whether the building standards will number - it's whether the building standards will change number - it's whether the building standards will change over number - it's whether the building standards will change over time number - it's whether the building standards will change over time and standards will change over time and it standards will change over time and it might standards will change over time and it might not standards will change over time and it might not be standards will change over time and it might not be compliant standards will change over time and it might not be compliant at standards will change over time and it might not be compliant at some it might not be compliant at some other it might not be compliant at some other time. it might not be compliant at some other time. Huge it might not be compliant at some other time. Huge stresses it might not be compliant at some other time. Huge stresses are other time. Huge stresses are involved other time. Huge stresses are involved there. other time. Huge stresses are involved there. The other time. Huge stresses are involved there. The other other time. Huge stresses are involved there. The other point other time. Huge stresses are involved there. The other point - other time. Huge stresses are involved there. The other point - if involved there. The other point - if we involved there. The other point - if we want involved there. The other point - if we want to involved there. The other point - if we want to densify involved there. The other point - if we want to densify our involved there. The other point - if we want to densify our cities, involved there. The other point - if we want to densify our cities, have we want to densify our cities, have more we want to densify our cities, have more people we want to densify our cities, have more people sitting we want to densify our cities, have more people sitting in we want to densify our cities, have more people sitting in our we want to densify our cities, have more people sitting in our central more people sitting in our central cities, more people sitting in our central cities, one more people sitting in our central cities, one of more people sitting in our central cities, one of the more people sitting in our central cities, one of the worst more people sitting in our central cities, one of the worst things more people sitting in our central cities, one of the worst things we cities, one of the worst things we can cities, one of the worst things we can do cities, one of the worst things we can do is cities, one of the worst things we can do is undermine cities, one of the worst things we can do is undermine the cities, one of the worst things we can do is undermine the confidence can do is undermine the confidence of can do is undermine the confidence of the can do is undermine the confidence of the very can do is undermine the confidence of the very people can do is undermine the confidence of the very people that can do is undermine the confidence of the very people that we can do is undermine the confidence of the very people that we want can do is undermine the confidence of the very people that we want to of the very people that we want to live of the very people that we want to live in of the very people that we want to live in our of the very people that we want to live in our cities, of the very people that we want to live in our cities, because of the very people that we want to live in our cities, because that live in our cities, because that message live in our cities, because that message might live in our cities, because that message might go live in our cities, because that message might go out live in our cities, because that message might go out to live in our cities, because that message might go out to other live in our cities, because that message might go out to other people message might go out to other people who message might go out to other people who think message might go out to other people who think about message might go out to other people who think about living message might go out to other people who think about living in message might go out to other people who think about living in central who think about living in central cities who think about living in central cities who who think about living in central cities who then who think about living in central cities who then don't who think about living in central cities who then don't want who think about living in central cities who then don't want to who think about living in central cities who then don't want to live cities who then don't want to live in cities who then don't want to live in an cities who then don't want to live in an apartment cities who then don't want to live in an apartment building. cities who then don't want to live in an apartment building. This cities who then don't want to live in an apartment building. This bill in an apartment building. This bill gives in an apartment building. This bill gives four in an apartment building. This bill gives four more in an apartment building. This bill gives four more years in an apartment building. This bill gives four more years for in an apartment building. This bill gives four more years for people in an apartment building. This bill gives four more years for people to gives four more years for people to give gives four more years for people to give - gives four more years for people to give - "Four gives four more years for people to give - "Four more gives four more years for people to give - "Four more years" gives four more years for people to give - "Four more years" - gives four more years for people to give - "Four more years" - sounds gives four more years for people to give - "Four more years" - sounds a give - "Four more years" - sounds a bit give - "Four more years" - sounds a bit rugby-ish, give - "Four more years" - sounds a bit rugby-ish, not give - "Four more years" - sounds a bit rugby-ish, not a give - "Four more years" - sounds a bit rugby-ish, not a good give - "Four more years" - sounds a bit rugby-ish, not a good thing give - "Four more years" - sounds a bit rugby-ish, not a good thing to bit rugby-ish, not a good thing to remember... bit rugby-ish, not a good thing to remember... I bit rugby-ish, not a good thing to remember... I want bit rugby-ish, not a good thing to remember... I want to bit rugby-ish, not a good thing to remember... I want to give bit rugby-ish, not a good thing to remember... I want to give thanks bit rugby-ish, not a good thing to remember... I want to give thanks to remember... I want to give thanks to the remember... I want to give thanks to the Hon remember... I want to give thanks to the Hon Chris remember... I want to give thanks to the Hon Chris Penk remember... I want to give thanks to the Hon Chris Penk for remember... I want to give thanks to the Hon Chris Penk for this, remember... I want to give thanks to the Hon Chris Penk for this, and the Hon Chris Penk for this, and it's the Hon Chris Penk for this, and it's really the Hon Chris Penk for this, and it's really good the Hon Chris Penk for this, and it's really good in the Hon Chris Penk for this, and it's really good in seeing the Hon Chris Penk for this, and it's really good in seeing coverage it's really good in seeing coverage of it's really good in seeing coverage of this it's really good in seeing coverage of this to it's really good in seeing coverage of this to see it's really good in seeing coverage of this to see the it's really good in seeing coverage of this to see the credit it's really good in seeing coverage of this to see the credit where of this to see the credit where credit's of this to see the credit where credit's due of this to see the credit where credit's due - of this to see the credit where credit's due - the of this to see the credit where credit's due - the words of this to see the credit where credit's due - the words actually credit's due - the words actually used credit's due - the words actually used from credit's due - the words actually used from one credit's due - the words actually used from one of credit's due - the words actually used from one of my credit's due - the words actually used from one of my former credit's due - the words actually used from one of my former Green used from one of my former Green colleagues used from one of my former Green colleagues on used from one of my former Green colleagues on the used from one of my former Green colleagues on the Wellington used from one of my former Green colleagues on the Wellington City colleagues on the Wellington City Council. colleagues on the Wellington City Council. So, colleagues on the Wellington City Council. So, well colleagues on the Wellington City Council. So, well done colleagues on the Wellington City Council. So, well done to colleagues on the Wellington City Council. So, well done to the Council. So, well done to the Minister. Council. So, well done to the Minister. Let's Council. So, well done to the Minister. Let's be Council. So, well done to the Minister. Let's be clear Council. So, well done to the Minister. Let's be clear - Council. So, well done to the Minister. Let's be clear - as Council. So, well done to the Minister. Let's be clear - as we've Minister. Let's be clear - as we've heard Minister. Let's be clear - as we've heard from Minister. Let's be clear - as we've heard from the Minister. Let's be clear - as we've heard from the Hon Minister. Let's be clear - as we've heard from the Hon Julie Minister. Let's be clear - as we've heard from the Hon Julie Anne Minister. Let's be clear - as we've heard from the Hon Julie Anne Genter heard from the Hon Julie Anne Genter - heard from the Hon Julie Anne Genter - this heard from the Hon Julie Anne Genter - this does heard from the Hon Julie Anne Genter - this does not heard from the Hon Julie Anne Genter - this does not fix heard from the Hon Julie Anne Genter - this does not fix the heard from the Hon Julie Anne Genter - this does not fix the problem. - this does not fix the problem. There - this does not fix the problem. There is - this does not fix the problem. There is still - this does not fix the problem. There is still a - this does not fix the problem. There is still a problem, - this does not fix the problem. There is still a problem, it - this does not fix the problem. There is still a problem, it just There is still a problem, it just gives There is still a problem, it just gives more There is still a problem, it just gives more time There is still a problem, it just gives more time to There is still a problem, it just gives more time to fix There is still a problem, it just gives more time to fix that There is still a problem, it just gives more time to fix that problem. gives more time to fix that problem. We gives more time to fix that problem. We live gives more time to fix that problem. We live in gives more time to fix that problem. We live in a gives more time to fix that problem. We live in a shaky gives more time to fix that problem. We live in a shaky country. gives more time to fix that problem. We live in a shaky country. In gives more time to fix that problem. We live in a shaky country. In fact, We live in a shaky country. In fact, some We live in a shaky country. In fact, some of We live in a shaky country. In fact, some of us We live in a shaky country. In fact, some of us went We live in a shaky country. In fact, some of us went down We live in a shaky country. In fact, some of us went down to We live in a shaky country. In fact, some of us went down to the We live in a shaky country. In fact, some of us went down to the crisis some of us went down to the crisis management some of us went down to the crisis management centre some of us went down to the crisis management centre earlier some of us went down to the crisis management centre earlier in some of us went down to the crisis management centre earlier in the management centre earlier in the week, management centre earlier in the week, and management centre earlier in the week, and we management centre earlier in the week, and we were management centre earlier in the week, and we were reminded management centre earlier in the week, and we were reminded of management centre earlier in the week, and we were reminded of the week, and we were reminded of the likely week, and we were reminded of the likely frequency week, and we were reminded of the likely frequency of week, and we were reminded of the likely frequency of some week, and we were reminded of the likely frequency of some major likely frequency of some major earthquakes likely frequency of some major earthquakes in likely frequency of some major earthquakes in this likely frequency of some major earthquakes in this country likely frequency of some major earthquakes in this country - likely frequency of some major earthquakes in this country - so likely frequency of some major earthquakes in this country - so we earthquakes in this country - so we cannot earthquakes in this country - so we cannot just earthquakes in this country - so we cannot just bury earthquakes in this country - so we cannot just bury our earthquakes in this country - so we cannot just bury our heads earthquakes in this country - so we cannot just bury our heads in earthquakes in this country - so we cannot just bury our heads in the cannot just bury our heads in the sand cannot just bury our heads in the sand and cannot just bury our heads in the sand and say cannot just bury our heads in the sand and say this cannot just bury our heads in the sand and say this will cannot just bury our heads in the sand and say this will go cannot just bury our heads in the sand and say this will go away. We We have We have something We have something between We have something between 5.5 We have something between 5.5 and We have something between 5.5 and 7,000 We have something between 5.5 and 7,000 buildings We have something between 5.5 and 7,000 buildings listed We have something between 5.5 and 7,000 buildings listed as 7,000 buildings listed as earthquake-prone 7,000 buildings listed as earthquake-prone nationally 7,000 buildings listed as earthquake-prone nationally and 7,000 buildings listed as earthquake-prone nationally and I earthquake-prone nationally and I was earthquake-prone nationally and I was interested earthquake-prone nationally and I was interested to earthquake-prone nationally and I was interested to see earthquake-prone nationally and I was interested to see that, earthquake-prone nationally and I was interested to see that, in earthquake-prone nationally and I was interested to see that, in fact, was interested to see that, in fact, while was interested to see that, in fact, while we're was interested to see that, in fact, while we're very, was interested to see that, in fact, while we're very, very was interested to see that, in fact, while we're very, very conscious was interested to see that, in fact, while we're very, very conscious of while we're very, very conscious of that while we're very, very conscious of that in while we're very, very conscious of that in Wellington, while we're very, very conscious of that in Wellington, that while we're very, very conscious of that in Wellington, that Wellington that in Wellington, that Wellington City that in Wellington, that Wellington City t that in Wellington, that Wellington City t rest that in Wellington, that Wellington City t rest of that in Wellington, that Wellington City t rest of the that in Wellington, that Wellington City t rest of the region, that in Wellington, that Wellington City t rest of the region, is that in Wellington, that Wellington City t rest of the region, is added City t rest of the region, is added to City t rest of the region, is added to that, City t rest of the region, is added to that, it City t rest of the region, is added to that, it only City t rest of the region, is added to that, it only represents City t rest of the region, is added to that, it only represents ant City t rest of the region, is added to that, it only represents ant 10% to that, it only represents ant 10% of to that, it only represents ant 10% of those to that, it only represents ant 10% of those T to that, it only represents ant 10% of those T three to that, it only represents ant 10% of those T three times to that, it only represents ant 10% of those T three times as to that, it only represents ant 10% of those T three times as many to that, it only represents ant 10% of those T three times as many in of those T three times as many in Auckland of those T three times as many in Auckland which of those T three times as many in Auckland which surprised of those T three times as many in Auckland which surprised me of those T three times as many in Auckland which surprised me but Auckland which surprised me but that's Auckland which surprised me but that's the Auckland which surprised me but that's the way Auckland which surprised me but that's the way it Auckland which surprised me but that's the way it is. Auckland which surprised me but that's the way it is. It's Auckland which surprised me but that's the way it is. It's a Auckland which surprised me but that's the way it is. It's a much that's the way it is. It's a much bigger that's the way it is. It's a much bigger city, that's the way it is. It's a much bigger city, of that's the way it is. It's a much bigger city, of course. that's the way it is. It's a much bigger city, of course. Wellington bigger city, of course. Wellington City bigger city, of course. Wellington City has bigger city, of course. Wellington City has always bigger city, of course. Wellington City has always taken bigger city, of course. Wellington City has always taken this bigger city, of course. Wellington City has always taken this very, City has always taken this very, very City has always taken this very, very seriously. City has always taken this very, very seriously. In City has always taken this very, very seriously. In fact, City has always taken this very, very seriously. In fact, as City has always taken this very, very seriously. In fact, as a very seriously. In fact, as a council, very seriously. In fact, as a council, the very seriously. In fact, as a council, the council very seriously. In fact, as a council, the council started very seriously. In fact, as a council, the council started doing council, the council started doing assessments council, the council started doing assessments of council, the council started doing assessments of earthquake-prone assessments of earthquake-prone buildings assessments of earthquake-prone buildings way assessments of earthquake-prone buildings way back assessments of earthquake-prone buildings way back in assessments of earthquake-prone buildings way back in 2006, assessments of earthquake-prone buildings way back in 2006, so buildings way back in 2006, so obviously buildings way back in 2006, so obviously before buildings way back in 2006, so obviously before the buildings way back in 2006, so obviously before the Canterbury obviously before the Canterbury earthquakes. obviously before the Canterbury earthquakes. One obviously before the Canterbury earthquakes. One local obviously before the Canterbury earthquakes. One local government earthquakes. One local government conference earthquakes. One local government conference that earthquakes. One local government conference that Wellington earthquakes. One local government conference that Wellington City earthquakes. One local government conference that Wellington City just conference that Wellington City just about conference that Wellington City just about finished conference that Wellington City just about finished its conference that Wellington City just about finished its work conference that Wellington City just about finished its work when conference that Wellington City just about finished its work when just about finished its work when just about about finished its work when just about even about finished its work when just about even else about finished its work when just about even else just about finished its work when just about even else just got about finished its work when just about even else just got start about finished its work when just about even else just got start on about even else just got start on that about even else just got start on that particular about even else just got start on that particular score about even else just got start on that particular score and about even else just got start on that particular score and Wellington that particular score and Wellington had that particular score and Wellington had done that particular score and Wellington had done more that particular score and Wellington had done more assessments that particular score and Wellington had done more assessments than that particular score and Wellington had done more assessments than every had done more assessments than every other had done more assessments than every other TA had done more assessments than every other TA in had done more assessments than every other TA in the had done more assessments than every other TA in the country had done more assessments than every other TA in the country put other TA in the country put together. other TA in the country put together. So other TA in the country put together. So shows other TA in the country put together. So shows it's other TA in the country put together. So shows it's an other TA in the country put together. So shows it's an issue together. So shows it's an issue which together. So shows it's an issue which is together. So shows it's an issue which is taken together. So shows it's an issue which is taken seriously. together. So shows it's an issue which is taken seriously. I together. So shows it's an issue which is taken seriously. I do together. So shows it's an issue which is taken seriously. I do want which is taken seriously. I do want to which is taken seriously. I do want to use which is taken seriously. I do want to use Wellington which is taken seriously. I do want to use Wellington as which is taken seriously. I do want to use Wellington as an which is taken seriously. I do want to use Wellington as an example which is taken seriously. I do want to use Wellington as an example and to use Wellington as an example and one to use Wellington as an example and one other to use Wellington as an example and one other jurisdiction, to use Wellington as an example and one other jurisdiction, if to use Wellington as an example and one other jurisdiction, if I to use Wellington as an example and one other jurisdiction, if I have one other jurisdiction, if I have the one other jurisdiction, if I have the time one other jurisdiction, if I have the time to one other jurisdiction, if I have the time to do one other jurisdiction, if I have the time to do so. one other jurisdiction, if I have the time to do so. Because one other jurisdiction, if I have the time to do so. Because it one other jurisdiction, if I have the time to do so. Because it gives the time to do so. Because it gives underlines the time to do so. Because it gives underlines the the time to do so. Because it gives underlines the importance the time to do so. Because it gives underlines the importance of the time to do so. Because it gives underlines the importance of this underlines the importance of this extra underlines the importance of this extra time, underlines the importance of this extra time, Madam underlines the importance of this extra time, Madam Speaker. extra time, Madam Speaker. Wellington extra time, Madam Speaker. Wellington City extra time, Madam Speaker. Wellington City has extra time, Madam Speaker. Wellington City has some extra time, Madam Speaker. Wellington City has some 572 Wellington City has some 572 buildings Wellington City has some 572 buildings on Wellington City has some 572 buildings on its Wellington City has some 572 buildings on its earthquake Wellington City has some 572 buildings on its earthquake list. buildings on its earthquake list. 229 buildings on its earthquake list. 229 of buildings on its earthquake list. 229 of them, buildings on its earthquake list. 229 of them, they're buildings on its earthquake list. 229 of them, they're earthquake buildings on its earthquake list. 229 of them, they're earthquake - 229 of them, they're earthquake - the 229 of them, they're earthquake - the yellow 229 of them, they're earthquake - the yellow sticker 229 of them, they're earthquake - the yellow sticker turns 229 of them, they're earthquake - the yellow sticker turns red 229 of them, they're earthquake - the yellow sticker turns red in the yellow sticker turns red in 2027. the yellow sticker turns red in 2027. 229 the yellow sticker turns red in 2027. 229 of the yellow sticker turns red in 2027. 229 of them the yellow sticker turns red in 2027. 229 of them and the yellow sticker turns red in 2027. 229 of them and if the yellow sticker turns red in 2027. 229 of them and if you the yellow sticker turns red in 2027. 229 of them and if you include 2027. 229 of them and if you include the 2027. 229 of them and if you include the ones 2027. 229 of them and if you include the ones between 2027. 229 of them and if you include the ones between now 2027. 229 of them and if you include the ones between now and 2027. 229 of them and if you include the ones between now and 2027, the ones between now and 2027, that's the ones between now and 2027, that's 305, the ones between now and 2027, that's 305, so the ones between now and 2027, that's 305, so nearly the ones between now and 2027, that's 305, so nearly all the ones between now and 2027, that's 305, so nearly all of the ones between now and 2027, that's 305, so nearly all of them, that's 305, so nearly all of them, or that's 305, so nearly all of them, or the that's 305, so nearly all of them, or the vast that's 305, so nearly all of them, or the vast majority that's 305, so nearly all of them, or the vast majority of that's 305, so nearly all of them, or the vast majority of them that's 305, so nearly all of them, or the vast majority of them r that's 305, so nearly all of them, or the vast majority of them r in or the vast majority of them r in the or the vast majority of them r in the next or the vast majority of them r in the next three or the vast majority of them r in the next three or or the vast majority of them r in the next three or four or the vast majority of them r in the next three or four years. or the vast majority of them r in the next three or four years. So or the vast majority of them r in the next three or four years. So not the next three or four years. So not only the next three or four years. So not only a the next three or four years. So not only a stress the next three or four years. So not only a stress and the next three or four years. So not only a stress and a the next three or four years. So not only a stress and a pressure the next three or four years. So not only a stress and a pressure and the next three or four years. So not only a stress and a pressure and a only a stress and a pressure and a financial only a stress and a pressure and a that's only a stress and a pressure and a financial pressure on only a stress and a pressure and a financial pressure on the only a stress and a pressure and a financial pressure on the building financial pressure on the building owners, financial pressure on the building owners, but financial pressure on the building owners, but also financial pressure on the building owners, but also question financial pressure on the building owners, but also question of financial pressure on the building owners, but also question of the owners, but also question of the capacity owners, but also question of the capacity of owners, but also question of the capacity of the owners, but also question of the capacity of the market owners, but also question of the capacity of the market of owners, but also question of the capacity of the market of the capacity of the market of the industry, capacity of the market of the industry, of capacity of the market of the industry, of the capacity of the market of the industry, of the experts, capacity of the market of the industry, of the experts, to industry, of the experts, to actually industry, of the experts, to actually be industry, of the experts, to actually be able industry, of the experts, to actually be able to industry, of the experts, to actually be able to do industry, of the experts, to actually be able to do the industry, of the experts, to actually be able to do the work industry, of the experts, to actually be able to do the work that actually be able to do the work that needs actually be able to do the work that needs to actually be able to do the work that needs to be actually be able to do the work that needs to be done actually be able to do the work that needs to be done in actually be able to do the work that needs to be done in that actually be able to do the work that needs to be done in that short needs to be done in that short period needs to be done in that short period of needs to be done in that short period of time. needs to be done in that short period of time. So needs to be done in that short period of time. So extra needs to be done in that short period of time. So extra time needs to be done in that short period of time. So extra time is period of time. So extra time is period of time. So extra time is period of time. So extra time is really, really period of time. So extra time is really, really important. period of time. So extra time is really, really important. I period of time. So extra time is really, really important. I said really, really important. I said that really, really important. I said that more really, really important. I said that more work really, really important. I said that more work is really, really important. I said that more work is needed really, really important. I said that more work is needed to really, really important. I said that more work is needed to be really, really important. I said that more work is needed to be done that more work is needed to be done so that more work is needed to be done so really that more work is needed to be done so really great that more work is needed to be done so really great to that more work is needed to be done so really great to see that more work is needed to be done so really great to see the so really great to see the Minister's so really great to see the Minister's review so really great to see the Minister's review which so really great to see the Minister's review which has so really great to see the Minister's review which has been Minister's review which has been done Minister's review which has been done and Minister's review which has been done and I'm Minister's review which has been done and I'm sure Minister's review which has been done and I'm sure the Minister's review which has been done and I'm sure the Minister Minister's review which has been done and I'm sure the Minister said done and I'm sure the Minister said it's done and I'm sure the Minister said it's absolutely done and I'm sure the Minister said it's absolutely fine done and I'm sure the Minister said it's absolutely fine to done and I'm sure the Minister said it's absolutely fine to hear done and I'm sure the Minister said it's absolutely fine to hear this done and I'm sure the Minister said it's absolutely fine to hear this as it's absolutely fine to hear this as well, it's absolutely fine to hear this as well, I'm it's absolutely fine to hear this as well, I'm sure it's absolutely fine to hear this as well, I'm sure that it's absolutely fine to hear this as well, I'm sure that we it's absolutely fine to hear this as well, I'm sure that we will it's absolutely fine to hear this as well, I'm sure that we will hear well, I'm sure that we will hear many well, I'm sure that we will hear many out-of-scope well, I'm sure that we will hear many out-of-scope submissions well, I'm sure that we will hear many out-of-scope submissions during many out-of-scope submissions during which many out-of-scope submissions during which I many out-of-scope submissions during which I think many out-of-scope submissions during which I think talking many out-of-scope submissions during which I think talking about many out-of-scope submissions during which I think talking about things which I think talking about things which which I think talking about things which are which I think talking about things which are more which I think talking about things which are more than which I think talking about things which are more than just which I think talking about things which are more than just the which are more than just the timetable, which are more than just the timetable, but which are more than just the timetable, but they which are more than just the timetable, but they will which are more than just the timetable, but they will be timetable, but they will be valuable. timetable, but they will be valuable. They'll timetable, but they will be valuable. They'll be timetable, but they will be valuable. They'll be valuable valuable. They'll be valuable information valuable. They'll be valuable information that valuable. They'll be valuable information that - valuable. They'll be valuable information that - because valuable. They'll be valuable information that - because they valuable. They'll be valuable information that - because they will information that - because they will all information that - because they will all be information that - because they will all be related information that - because they will all be related to information that - because they will all be related to the information that - because they will all be related to the issues information that - because they will all be related to the issues around all be related to the issues around the all be related to the issues around the earthquake all be related to the issues around the earthquake strengthening all be related to the issues around the earthquake strengthening regime the earthquake strengthening regime and the earthquake strengthening regime and what the earthquake strengthening regime and what the the earthquake strengthening regime and what the challenges the earthquake strengthening regime and what the challenges are, the earthquake strengthening regime and what the challenges are, what and what the challenges are, what can and what the challenges are, what can be and what the challenges are, what can be done and what the challenges are, what can be done to and what the challenges are, what can be done to make and what the challenges are, what can be done to make it and what the challenges are, what can be done to make it better, and what the challenges are, what can be done to make it better, and and what the challenges are, what can be done to make it better, and I can be done to make it better, and I think can be done to make it better, and I think those can be done to make it better, and I think those will can be done to make it better, and I think those will be can be done to make it better, and I think those will be very, can be done to make it better, and I think those will be very, very think those will be very, very valuable think those will be very, very valuable so think those will be very, very valuable so I'm think those will be very, very valuable so I'm looking think those will be very, very valuable so I'm looking forward think those will be very, very valuable so I'm looking forward to valuable so I'm looking forward to that valuable so I'm looking forward to that work. valuable so I'm looking forward to that work. And valuable so I'm looking forward to that work. And if valuable so I'm looking forward to that work. And if I valuable so I'm looking forward to that work. And if I might valuable so I'm looking forward to that work. And if I might finish valuable so I'm looking forward to that work. And if I might finish off that work. And if I might finish off with that work. And if I might finish off with just that work. And if I might finish off with just one that work. And if I might finish off with just one other that work. And if I might finish off with just one other area that work. And if I might finish off with just one other area which that work. And if I might finish off with just one other area which I with just one other area which I have with just one other area which I have also with just one other area which I have also seen with just one other area which I have also seen which with just one other area which I have also seen which I with just one other area which I have also seen which I know with just one other area which I have also seen which I know some with just one other area which I have also seen which I know some of have also seen which I know some of the have also seen which I know some of the - have also seen which I know some of the - our have also seen which I know some of the - our rural have also seen which I know some of the - our rural and have also seen which I know some of the - our rural and provincial have also seen which I know some of the - our rural and provincial towns the - our rural and provincial towns like the - our rural and provincial towns like Fielding, the - our rural and provincial towns like Fielding, I the - our rural and provincial towns like Fielding, I know the - our rural and provincial towns like Fielding, I know how the - our rural and provincial towns like Fielding, I know how important like Fielding, I know how important that like Fielding, I know how important that they like Fielding, I know how important that they are like Fielding, I know how important that they are this like Fielding, I know how important that they are this legislation like Fielding, I know how important that they are this legislation will that they are this legislation will be that they are this legislation will be to that they are this legislation will be to them that they are this legislation will be to them because that they are this legislation will be to them because giving that they are this legislation will be to them because giving more that they are this legislation will be to them because giving more time be to them because giving more time changes be to them because giving more time changes the be to them because giving more time changes the economics, be to them because giving more time changes the economics, allows be to them because giving more time changes the economics, allows people changes the economics, allows people to changes the economics, allows people to get changes the economics, allows people to get on changes the economics, allows people to get on strengthening changes the economics, allows people to get on strengthening their to get on strengthening their building to get on strengthening their building and to get on strengthening their building and I to get on strengthening their building and I commend to get on strengthening their building and I commend this to get on strengthening their building and I commend this bill to get on strengthening their building and I commend this bill to building and I commend this bill to the building and I commend this bill to the House. building and I commend this bill to the House. Hana building and I commend this bill to the House. Hana Rawhiti the House. Hana Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke. Maipi-Clarke. <SPEAKS Maipi-Clarke. <SPEAKS TE Maipi-Clarke. <SPEAKS TE REO Maipi-Clarke. <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> INTERPRETER: <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> INTERPRETER: Thank <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> INTERPRETER: Thank you, <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all of INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all of us INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all of us in INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all of us in the INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all of us in the House. INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all of us in the House. I INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all of us in the House. I stand INTERPRETER: Thank you, greetings to all of us in the House. I stand to all of us in the House. I stand to take all of us in the House. I stand to take a all of us in the House. I stand to take a voice all of us in the House. I stand to take a voice to all of us in the House. I stand to take a voice to the all of us in the House. I stand to take a voice to the contribution all of us in the House. I stand to take a voice to the contribution to take a voice to the contribution to the take a voice to the contribution to the Maori take a voice to the contribution to the Maori Party. take a voice to the contribution to the Maori Party. Despite take a voice to the contribution to the Maori Party. Despite the take a voice to the contribution to the Maori Party. Despite the short take a voice to the contribution to the Maori Party. Despite the short - the Maori Party. Despite the short - my the Maori Party. Despite the short - my short the Maori Party. Despite the short - my short contribution, the Maori Party. Despite the short - my short contribution, I the Maori Party. Despite the short - my short contribution, I will the Maori Party. Despite the short - my short contribution, I will still my short contribution, I will still speak my short contribution, I will still speak of my short contribution, I will still speak of the my short contribution, I will still speak of the safety my short contribution, I will still speak of the safety of my short contribution, I will still speak of the safety of these my short contribution, I will still speak of the safety of these houses speak of the safety of these houses in speak of the safety of these houses in the speak of the safety of these houses in the case speak of the safety of these houses in the case that speak of the safety of these houses in the case that they're speak of the safety of these houses in the case that they're of speak of the safety of these houses in the case that they're of an in the case that they're of an earthquake. in the case that they're of an earthquake. I in the case that they're of an earthquake. I rise in the case that they're of an earthquake. I rise to in the case that they're of an earthquake. I rise to take in the case that they're of an earthquake. I rise to take a in the case that they're of an earthquake. I rise to take a short earthquake. I rise to take a short call earthquake. I rise to take a short earthquake. earthquake. I rise to take a short call on behalf earthquake. I rise to take a short call on behalf of earthquake. I rise to take a short call on behalf of Te earthquake. I rise to take a short call on behalf of Te Paati earthquake. I rise to take a short call on behalf of Te Paati Maori earthquake. I rise to take a short call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in support call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in support of call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in support of this call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in support of this bill call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in support of this bill to call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in support of this bill to see call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in support of this bill to see it call on behalf of Te Paati Maori in support of this bill to see it go support of this bill to see it go through support of this bill to see it go through to support of this bill to see it go through to the support of this bill to see it go through to the select support of this bill to see it go through to the select committee through to the select committee process through to the select committee process in through to the select committee process in stages. through to the select committee process in stages. Some through to the select committee process in stages. Some of through to the select committee process in stages. Some of our through to the select committee process in stages. Some of our quay process in stages. Some of our quay focuses, process in stages. Some of our quay focuses, however, process in stages. Some of our quay focuses, however, and process in stages. Some of our quay focuses, however, and interests process in stages. Some of our quay focuses, however, and interests and focuses, however, and interests and are focuses, however, and interests and are waiting focuses, however, and interests and are waiting to focuses, however, and interests and are waiting to hear focuses, however, and interests and are waiting to hear public are waiting to hear public consultation are waiting to hear public consultation is are waiting to hear public consultation is from are waiting to hear public consultation is from a are waiting to hear public consultation is from a number are waiting to hear public consultation is from a number of consultation is from a number of marae. consultation is from a number of marae. As consultation is from a number of marae. As marae consultation is from a number of marae. As marae may consultation is from a number of marae. As marae may be consultation is from a number of marae. As marae may be forced consultation is from a number of marae. As marae may be forced to consultation is from a number of marae. As marae may be forced to be marae. As marae may be forced to be demolished, marae. As marae may be forced to be demolished, if marae. As marae may be forced to be demolished, if they marae. As marae may be forced to be demolished, if they fail marae. As marae may be forced to be demolished, if they fail to marae. As marae may be forced to be demolished, if they fail to meet demolished, if they fail to meet these demolished, if they fail to meet these deadlines, demolished, if they fail to meet these deadlines, extending demolished, if they fail to meet these deadlines, extending time these deadlines, extending time frames these deadlines, extending time frames may these deadlines, extending time frames may save these deadlines, extending time frames may save some these deadlines, extending time frames may save some marae these deadlines, extending time frames may save some marae from frames may save some marae from demolition, frames may save some marae from demolition, but frames may save some marae from demolition, but it frames may save some marae from demolition, but it will frames may save some marae from demolition, but it will not frames may save some marae from demolition, but it will not address demolition, but it will not address the demolition, but it will not address the core demolition, but it will not address the core issue demolition, but it will not address the core issue as demolition, but it will not address the core issue as other demolition, but it will not address the core issue as other members demolition, but it will not address the core issue as other members have the core issue as other members have said the core issue as other members have said across the core issue as other members have said across both the core issue as other members have said across both sides the core issue as other members have said across both sides that the core issue as other members have said across both sides that many said across both sides that many hapu said across both sides that many hapu cannot said across both sides that many hapu cannot afford said across both sides that many hapu cannot afford to said across both sides that many hapu cannot afford to strengthen hapu cannot afford to strengthen their hapu cannot afford to strengthen their marae. hapu cannot afford to strengthen their marae. The hapu cannot afford to strengthen their marae. The Government hapu cannot afford to strengthen their marae. The Government should their marae. The Government should fully their marae. The Government should fully fund their marae. The Government should fully fund strengthening their marae. The Government should fully fund strengthening for their marae. The Government should fully fund strengthening for marae. fully fund strengthening for marae. Another fully fund strengthening for marae. Another issue fully fund strengthening for marae. Another issue I fully fund strengthening for marae. Another issue I would fully fund strengthening for marae. Another issue I would like fully fund strengthening for marae. Another issue I would like to fully fund strengthening for marae. Another issue I would like to raise Another issue I would like to raise is Another issue I would like to raise is the Another issue I would like to raise is the bigger Another issue I would like to raise is the bigger issue Another issue I would like to raise is the bigger issue of Another issue I would like to raise is the bigger issue of all Another issue I would like to raise is the bigger issue of all of Another issue I would like to raise is the bigger issue of all of us Another issue I would like to raise is the bigger issue of all of us for is the bigger issue of all of us for us, is the bigger issue of all of us for us, as is the bigger issue of all of us for us, as a is the bigger issue of all of us for us, as a person is the bigger issue of all of us for us, as a person who is the bigger issue of all of us for us, as a person who lives is the bigger issue of all of us for us, as a person who lives near is the bigger issue of all of us for us, as a person who lives near the us, as a person who lives near the papakainga us, as a person who lives near the papakainga and us, as a person who lives near the papakainga and marae us, as a person who lives near the papakainga and marae as us, as a person who lives near the papakainga and marae as the us, as a person who lives near the papakainga and marae as the future papakainga and marae as the future safety papakainga and marae as the future safety plans papakainga and marae as the future safety plans in papakainga and marae as the future safety plans in place papakainga and marae as the future safety plans in place for papakainga and marae as the future safety plans in place for houses, safety plans in place for houses, and safety plans in place for houses, and particularly safety plans in place for houses, and particularly for safety plans in place for houses, and particularly for marae, safety plans in place for houses, and particularly for marae, and, safety plans in place for houses, and particularly for marae, and, of and particularly for marae, and, of course, and particularly for marae, and, of course, of and particularly for marae, and, of course, of natural and particularly for marae, and, of course, of natural disasters. and particularly for marae, and, of course, of natural disasters. And and particularly for marae, and, of course, of natural disasters. And we course, of natural disasters. And we have course, of natural disasters. And we have seen course, of natural disasters. And we have seen many course, of natural disasters. And we have seen many marae course, of natural disasters. And we have seen many marae in course, of natural disasters. And we have seen many marae in the course, of natural disasters. And we have seen many marae in the past course, of natural disasters. And we have seen many marae in the past for have seen many marae in the past for the have seen many marae in the past for the past have seen many marae in the past for the past couple have seen many marae in the past for the past couple of have seen many marae in the past for the past couple of years have seen many marae in the past for the past couple of years now have seen many marae in the past for the past couple of years now by the past couple of years now by natural the past couple of years now by natural disasters the past couple of years now by natural disasters but the past couple of years now by natural disasters but they're the past couple of years now by natural disasters but they're the natural disasters but they're the first natural disasters but they're the first place natural disasters but they're the first place of natural disasters but they're the first place of response natural disasters but they're the first place of response and first place of response and locations first place of response and locations during first place of response and locations during a first place of response and locations during a natural first place of response and locations during a natural disaster locations during a natural disaster whether locations during a natural disaster whether you locations during a natural disaster whether you are locations during a natural disaster whether you are non-Maori locations during a natural disaster whether you are non-Maori or locations during a natural disaster whether you are non-Maori or Maori. whether you are non-Maori or Maori. And whether you are non-Maori or Maori. locations whether you are non-Maori or Maori. And knowing that whether you are non-Maori or Maori. And knowing that marae whether you are non-Maori or Maori. And knowing that marae are whether you are non-Maori or Maori. And knowing that marae are not whether you are non-Maori or Maori. And knowing that marae are not just And knowing that marae are not just walls And knowing that marae are not just walls and And knowing that marae are not just walls and windows And knowing that marae are not just walls and windows but And knowing that marae are not just walls and windows but they And knowing that marae are not just walls and windows but they are And knowing that marae are not just walls and windows but they are our walls and windows but they are our museums. walls and windows but they are our museums. Also walls and windows but they are our museums. Also making walls and windows but they are our museums. Also making sure walls and windows but they are our museums. Also making sure that walls and windows but they are our museums. Also making sure that the museums. Also making sure that the right museums. Also making sure that the right protection museums. Also making sure that the right protection many museums. Also making sure that the right protection many place museums. Also making sure that the right protection many place for museums. Also making sure that the right protection many place for our right protection many place for our carvings, right protection many place for our carvings, cue right protection many place for our carvings, cue tuku right protection many place for our carvings, cue tuku and right protection many place for our carvings, cue tuku and artefacts carvings, cue tuku and artefacts that carvings, cue tuku and artefacts that we carvings, cue tuku and artefacts that we would carvings, cue tuku and artefacts that we would like carvings, cue tuku and artefacts that we would like to carvings, cue tuku and artefacts that we would like to have that we would like to have consultation that we would like to have consultation process that we would like to have consultation process on that we would like to have consultation process on and that we would like to have consultation process on and how that we would like to have consultation process on and how the consultation process on and how the process consultation process on and how the process will consultation process on and how the process will look consultation process on and how the process will look like consultation process on and how the process will look like moving process will look like moving forward. process will look like moving forward. So process will look like moving forward. So we process will look like moving forward. So we would process will look like moving forward. So we would like process will look like moving forward. So we would like to process will look like moving forward. So we would like to have forward. So we would like to have those forward. So we would like to have those conversations forward. So we would like to have those conversations no forward. So we would like to have those conversations no matter forward. So we would like to have those conversations no matter the those conversations no matter the political those conversations no matter the political party those conversations no matter the political party as those conversations no matter the political party as the those conversations no matter the political party as the safety those conversations no matter the political party as the safety of those conversations no matter the political party as the safety of our political party as the safety of our people political party as the safety of our people are political party as the safety of our people are paramount. political party as the safety of our people are paramount. So political party as the safety of our people are paramount. So no political party as the safety of our people are paramount. So no short, people are paramount. So no short, we people are paramount. So no short, we support people are paramount. So no short, we support this people are paramount. So no short, we support this bill people are paramount. So no short, we support this bill to people are paramount. So no short, we support this bill to select we support this bill to select committee we support this bill to select committee process we support this bill to select committee process - we support this bill to select committee process - so we support this bill to select committee process - so the we support this bill to select committee process - so the select committee process - so the select committee committee process - so the select committee stage committee process - so the select committee stage and committee process - so the select committee stage and we committee process - so the select committee stage and we await committee process - so the select committee stage and we await to committee process - so the select committee stage and we await to hear committee stage and we await to hear submissions committee stage and we await to hear submissions from committee stage and we await to hear submissions from the committee stage and we await to hear submissions from the select submissions from the select committee. submissions from the select committee. Grant submissions from the select committee. Grant McCallum. submissions from the select committee. Grant McCallum. Thank committee. Grant McCallum. Thank you, committee. Grant McCallum. Thank you, Madam committee. Grant McCallum. Thank you, Madam Speaker. committee. Grant McCallum. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I committee. Grant McCallum. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise committee. Grant McCallum. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to you, Madam Speaker. I rise to support you, Madam Speaker. I rise to support this you, Madam Speaker. I rise to support this bill, you, Madam Speaker. I rise to support this bill, the you, Madam Speaker. I rise to support this bill, the Building support this bill, the Building (Earthquake-prone support this bill, the Building (Earthquake-prone Building support this bill, the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Like and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Like most and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Like most of and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Like most of the and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Like most of the speakers and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Like most of the speakers before and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Like most of the speakers before me Like most of the speakers before me I Like most of the speakers before me I will Like most of the speakers before me I will be Like most of the speakers before me I will be focusing Like most of the speakers before me I will be focusing mainly Like most of the speakers before me I will be focusing mainly on Like most of the speakers before me I will be focusing mainly on the I will be focusing mainly on the earthquake I will be focusing mainly on the earthquake side I will be focusing mainly on the earthquake side of I will be focusing mainly on the earthquake side of this I will be focusing mainly on the earthquake side of this rather I will be focusing mainly on the earthquake side of this rather than earthquake side of this rather than the earthquake side of this rather than the other earthquake side of this rather than the other matters. earthquake side of this rather than the other matters. This earthquake side of this rather than the other matters. This is earthquake side of this rather than the other matters. This is very the other matters. This is very important the other matters. This is very important bill the other matters. This is very important bill because the other matters. This is very important bill because it's the other matters. This is very important bill because it's going the other matters. This is very important bill because it's going to important bill because it's going to help important bill because it's going to help create important bill because it's going to help create - important bill because it's going to help create - give important bill because it's going to help create - give us important bill because it's going to help create - give us time important bill because it's going to help create - give us time to important bill because it's going to help create - give us time to solve help create - give us time to solve - help create - give us time to solve - address help create - give us time to solve - address some help create - give us time to solve - address some issues help create - give us time to solve - address some issues that help create - give us time to solve - address some issues that have help create - give us time to solve - address some issues that have been - address some issues that have been building - address some issues that have been building up - address some issues that have been building up for - address some issues that have been building up for a - address some issues that have been building up for a while. - address some issues that have been building up for a while. I - address some issues that have been building up for a while. I think building up for a while. I think always building up for a while. I think always at building up for a while. I think always at the building up for a while. I think always at the heart building up for a while. I think always at the heart of building up for a while. I think always at the heart of this, building up for a while. I think always at the heart of this, we building up for a while. I think always at the heart of this, we just always at the heart of this, we just got always at the heart of this, we just got to always at the heart of this, we just got to remember always at the heart of this, we just got to remember that always at the heart of this, we just got to remember that we're always at the heart of this, we just got to remember that we're talking got to remember that we're talking about got to remember that we're talking about buildings got to remember that we're talking about buildings and got to remember that we're talking about buildings and earthquakes got to remember that we're talking about buildings and earthquakes and about buildings and earthquakes and the about buildings and earthquakes and the potential about buildings and earthquakes and the potential damage about buildings and earthquakes and the potential damage that about buildings and earthquakes and the potential damage that can about buildings and earthquakes and the potential damage that can come the potential damage that can come from the potential damage that can come from it the potential damage that can come from it and the potential damage that can come from it and we the potential damage that can come from it and we have the potential damage that can come from it and we have all the potential damage that can come from it and we have all seen the potential damage that can come from it and we have all seen in from it and we have all seen in recent from it and we have all seen in recent times from it and we have all seen in recent times what from it and we have all seen in recent times what can from it and we have all seen in recent times what can happen from it and we have all seen in recent times what can happen and from it and we have all seen in recent times what can happen and we recent times what can happen and we must recent times what can happen and we recent recent times what can happen and we must always keep recent times what can happen and we must always keep that recent times what can happen and we must always keep that in recent times what can happen and we must always keep that in our recent times what can happen and we must always keep that in our minds must always keep that in our minds which must always keep that in our minds which is must always keep that in our minds which is - must always keep that in our minds which is - it's must always keep that in our minds which is - it's a must always keep that in our minds which is - it's a delicate must always keep that in our minds which is - it's a delicate balance which is - it's a delicate balance at which is - it's a delicate balance at times which is - it's a delicate balance at times to which is - it's a delicate balance at times to get which is - it's a delicate balance at times to get between which is - it's a delicate balance at times to get between - which is - it's a delicate balance at times to get between - between at times to get between - between building at times to get between - between building something at times to get between - between building something that's at times to get between - between building something that's going at times to get between - between building something that's going to building something that's going to protect building something that's going to protect us building something that's going to protect us in building something that's going to protect us in a building something that's going to protect us in a disaster building something that's going to protect us in a disaster and building something that's going to protect us in a disaster and actual protect us in a disaster and actual costs protect us in a disaster and actual costs of protect us in a disaster and actual costs of strengthening protect us in a disaster and actual costs of strengthening the protect us in a disaster and actual costs of strengthening the existing costs of strengthening the existing buildings. costs of strengthening the existing buildings. So costs of strengthening the existing buildings. So always costs of strengthening the existing buildings. So always must buildings. So always must acknowledge buildings. So always must acknowledge that. buildings. So always must acknowledge that. I buildings. So always must acknowledge that. I like buildings. So always must acknowledge that. I like to acknowledge that. I like to acknowledge acknowledge that. I like to acknowledge my acknowledge that. I like to acknowledge my fellow acknowledge that. I like to acknowledge my fellow committee acknowledge my fellow committee members acknowledge my fellow committee members on acknowledge my fellow committee members on the acknowledge my fellow committee members on the select acknowledge my fellow committee members on the select committee, acknowledge my fellow committee members on the select committee, a members on the select committee, a great members on the select committee, a great chair, members on the select committee, a great chair, Andy members on the select committee, a great chair, Andy Foster, members on the select committee, a great chair, Andy Foster, and members on the select committee, a great chair, Andy Foster, and my great chair, Andy Foster, and my other great chair, Andy Foster, and my other members, great chair, Andy Foster, and my other members, Tom great chair, Andy Foster, and my other members, Tom Rutherford, great chair, Andy Foster, and my other members, Tom Rutherford, and other members, Tom Rutherford, and Cam other members, Tom Rutherford, and Cam Luxton other members, Tom Rutherford, and Cam Luxton and other members, Tom Rutherford, and Cam Luxton and Julie other members, Tom Rutherford, and Cam Luxton and Julie Anne other members, Tom Rutherford, and Cam Luxton and Julie Anne Genter other members, Tom Rutherford, and Cam Luxton and Julie Anne Genter is Cam Luxton and Julie Anne Genter is still Cam Luxton and Julie Anne Genter is still here Cam Luxton and Julie Anne Genter is still here in Cam Luxton and Julie Anne Genter is still here in the Cam Luxton and Julie Anne Genter is still here in the House. Cam Luxton and Julie Anne Genter is still here in the House. Acknowledge still here in the House. Acknowledge also still here in the House. Acknowledge also the still here in the House. Acknowledge also the speaker still here in the House. Acknowledge also the speaker before still here in the House. Acknowledge also the speaker before from still here in the House. Acknowledge also the speaker before from Labour, also the speaker before from Labour, Arena also the speaker before from Labour, Arena Williams. also the speaker before from Labour, Arena Williams. I also the speaker before from Labour, Arena Williams. I just also the speaker before from Labour, Arena Williams. I just like also the speaker before from Labour, Arena Williams. I just like - Arena Williams. I just like - interesting, Arena Williams. I just like - interesting, I'm Arena Williams. I just like - interesting, I'm pleased Arena Williams. I just like - interesting, I'm pleased to Arena Williams. I just like - interesting, I'm pleased to see Arena Williams. I just like - interesting, I'm pleased to see that interesting, I'm pleased to see that we interesting, I'm pleased to see that we have interesting, I'm pleased to see that we have almost interesting, I'm pleased to see that we have almost got interesting, I'm pleased to see that we have almost got unanimity interesting, I'm pleased to see that we have almost got unanimity within we have almost got unanimity within the we have almost got unanimity within the House we have almost got unanimity within the House the we have almost got unanimity within the House the osupport we have almost got unanimity within the House the osupport this we have almost got unanimity within the House the osupport this bill the House the osupport this bill through the House the osupport this bill through the the House the osupport this bill through the select the House the osupport this bill through the select committee the House the osupport this bill through the select committee with through the select committee with the through the select committee with the one through the select committee with the one exception through the select committee with the one exception being through the select committee with the one exception being Labour through the select committee with the one exception being Labour which the one exception being Labour which I the one exception being Labour which I find the one exception being Labour which I find rather the one exception being Labour which I find rather unusual the one exception being Labour which I find rather unusual given the one exception being Labour which I find rather unusual given so the one exception being Labour which I find rather unusual given so far I find rather unusual given so far the I find rather unusual given so far the speech I find rather unusual given so far the speech has I find rather unusual given so far the speech has been I find rather unusual given so far the speech has been pretty I find rather unusual given so far the speech has been pretty much I find rather unusual given so far the speech has been pretty much the the speech has been pretty much the support the speech has been pretty much the support of the speech has been pretty much the support of what the speech has been pretty much the support of what the the speech has been pretty much the support of what the goals the speech has been pretty much the support of what the goals of the speech has been pretty much the support of what the goals of the support of what the goals of the bill support of what the goals of the bill is, support of what the goals of the bill is, to support of what the goals of the bill is, to give support of what the goals of the bill is, to give us support of what the goals of the bill is, to give us more support of what the goals of the bill is, to give us more time support of what the goals of the bill is, to give us more time to support of what the goals of the bill is, to give us more time to do bill is, to give us more time to do a bill is, to give us more time to do a better bill is, to give us more time to do a better job, bill is, to give us more time to do a better job, so bill is, to give us more time to do a better job, so they're bill is, to give us more time to do a better job, so they're going bill is, to give us more time to do a better job, so they're going to a better job, so they're going to vote a better job, so they're going to vote against a better job, so they're going to vote against it. a better job, so they're going to vote against it. I a better job, so they're going to vote against it. I just a better job, so they're going to vote against it. I just find a better job, so they're going to vote against it. I just find that vote against it. I just find that interesting, vote against it. I just find that interesting, be vote against it. I just find that interesting, be fair vote against it. I just find that interesting, be fair to vote against it. I just find that interesting, be fair to say. vote against it. I just find that interesting, be fair to say. The interesting, be fair to say. The main interesting, be fair to say. The main reason interesting, be fair to say. The main reason we're interesting, be fair to say. The main reason we're giving interesting, be fair to say. The main reason we're giving more interesting, be fair to say. The main reason we're giving more time main reason we're giving more time is main reason we're giving more time is because main reason we're giving more time is because I main reason we're giving more time is because I know main reason we're giving more time is because I know the main reason we're giving more time is because I know the Minister, main reason we're giving more time is because I know the Minister, the is because I know the Minister, the Hon is because I know the Minister, the Hon Chris is because I know the Minister, the Hon Chris Penk, is because I know the Minister, the Hon Chris Penk, who is because I know the Minister, the Hon Chris Penk, who is is because I know the Minister, the Hon Chris Penk, who is doing is because I know the Minister, the Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a is because I know the Minister, the Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great job Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great job in Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great job in a Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great job in a number Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great job in a number of Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great job in a number of areas, Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great job in a number of areas, I Hon Chris Penk, who is doing a great job in a number of areas, I might job in a number of areas, I might add, job in a number of areas, I might add, is job in a number of areas, I might add, is - job in a number of areas, I might add, is - he job in a number of areas, I might add, is - he wants job in a number of areas, I might add, is - he wants to job in a number of areas, I might add, is - he wants to try job in a number of areas, I might add, is - he wants to try to job in a number of areas, I might add, is - he wants to try to bring add, is - he wants to try to bring some add, is - he wants to try to bring some clarity add, is - he wants to try to bring some clarity to add, is - he wants to try to bring some clarity to what add, is - he wants to try to bring some clarity to what is add, is - he wants to try to bring some clarity to what is at add, is - he wants to try to bring some clarity to what is at times add, is - he wants to try to bring some clarity to what is at times a some clarity to what is at times a confusing some clarity to what is at times a confusing situation. some clarity to what is at times a confusing situation. I'll some clarity to what is at times a confusing situation. I'll use some clarity to what is at times a confusing situation. I'll use my some clarity to what is at times a confusing situation. I'll use my own confusing situation. I'll use my own province confusing situation. I'll use my own province of confusing situation. I'll use my own province of Northland confusing situation. I'll use my own province of Northland as confusing situation. I'll use my own province of Northland as an confusing situation. I'll use my own province of Northland as an example. province of Northland as an example. We're province of Northland as an example. We're not province of Northland as an example. We're not renowned province of Northland as an example. We're not renowned for province of Northland as an example. We're not renowned for our We're not renowned for our earthquake We're not renowned for our earthquake risk, We're not renowned for our earthquake risk, yet We're not renowned for our earthquake risk, yet - We're not renowned for our earthquake risk, yet - and We're not renowned for our earthquake risk, yet - and yet We're not renowned for our earthquake risk, yet - and yet the earthquake risk, yet - and yet the current earthquake risk, yet - and yet the current legislation earthquake risk, yet - and yet the current legislation is earthquake risk, yet - and yet the current legislation is unclear earthquake risk, yet - and yet the current legislation is unclear as earthquake risk, yet - and yet the current legislation is unclear as to current legislation is unclear as to where current legislation is unclear as to where we current legislation is unclear as to where we stand current legislation is unclear as to where we stand on current legislation is unclear as to where we stand on what current legislation is unclear as to where we stand on what we current legislation is unclear as to where we stand on what we have current legislation is unclear as to where we stand on what we have to current legislation is unclear as to where we stand on what we have to do where we stand on what we have to do in where we stand on what we have to do in that where we stand on what we have to do in that space. where we stand on what we have to do in that space. So where we stand on what we have to do in that space. So I where we stand on what we have to do in that space. So I want where we stand on what we have to do in that space. So I want to where we stand on what we have to do in that space. So I want to bring in that space. So I want to bring clarity in that space. So I want to bring clarity as in that space. So I want to bring clarity as to in that space. So I want to bring clarity as to what in that space. So I want to bring clarity as to what Northlanders in that space. So I want to bring clarity as to what Northlanders have clarity as to what Northlanders have to clarity as to what Northlanders have to do clarity as to what Northlanders have to do with clarity as to what Northlanders have to do with - clarity as to what Northlanders have to do with - to clarity as to what Northlanders have to do with - to make clarity as to what Northlanders have to do with - to make their clarity as to what Northlanders have to do with - to make their buildings to do with - to make their buildings safer to do with - to make their buildings safer versus to do with - to make their buildings safer versus other to do with - to make their buildings safer versus other parts to do with - to make their buildings safer versus other parts of to do with - to make their buildings safer versus other parts of the safer versus other parts of the country safer versus other parts of the country which safer versus other parts of the country which are safer versus other parts of the country which are more country which are more earthquake-prone. country which are more earthquake-prone. It's country which are more earthquake-prone. It's interesting, earthquake-prone. It's interesting, there's earthquake-prone. It's interesting, there's been earthquake-prone. It's interesting, there's been quite earthquake-prone. It's interesting, there's been quite a earthquake-prone. It's interesting, there's been quite a bit earthquake-prone. It's interesting, there's been quite a bit of there's been quite a bit of commentary there's been quite a bit of commentary on there's been quite a bit of commentary on this there's been quite a bit of commentary on this - there's been quite a bit of commentary on this - on there's been quite a bit of commentary on this - on the there's been quite a bit of commentary on this - on the ex commentary on this - on the ex tension commentary on this - on the ex tension of commentary on this - on the ex tension of time commentary on this - on the ex tension of time and commentary on this - on the ex tension of time and the commentary on this - on the ex tension of time and the whole tension of time and the whole review, tension of time and the whole review, came tension of time and the whole review, came from, tension of time and the whole review, came from, for tension of time and the whole review, came from, for example, tension of time and the whole review, came from, for example, the review, came from, for example, the likes review, came from, for example, the likes of review, came from, for example, the likes of the review, came from, for example, the likes of the Mayor review, came from, for example, the likes of the Mayor of review, came from, for example, the likes of the Mayor of Wellington, likes of the Mayor of Wellington, Tory likes of the Mayor of Wellington, Tory Wm likes of the Mayor of Wellington, Tory Wm -- likes of the Mayor of Wellington, Tory Wm -- whanau, likes of the Mayor of Wellington, Tory Wm -- whanau, ve likes of the Mayor of Wellington, Tory Wm -- whanau, ve welcomed likes of the Mayor of Wellington, Tory Wm -- whanau, ve welcomed the Tory Wm -- whanau, ve welcomed the review, Tory Wm -- whanau, ve welcomed the review, she Tory Wm -- whanau, ve welcomed the review, she welcomed Tory Wm -- whanau, ve welcomed the review, she welcomed the Tory Wm -- whanau, ve welcomed the review, she welcomed the extension review, she welcomed the extension of review, she welcomed the extension of the review, she welcomed the extension of the deadline. review, she welcomed the extension of the deadline. She review, she welcomed the extension of the deadline. She said, review, she welcomed the extension of the deadline. She said, "It's review, she welcomed the extension of the deadline. She said, "It's an of the deadline. She said, "It's an extremely of the deadline. She said, "It's an extremely complex of the deadline. She said, "It's an extremely complex issue. of the deadline. She said, "It's an extremely complex issue. It's extremely complex issue. It's important extremely complex issue. It's important that extremely complex issue. It's important that New extremely complex issue. It's important that New Zealand extremely complex issue. It's important that New Zealand has extremely complex issue. It's important that New Zealand has a important that New Zealand has a system important that New Zealand has a system for important that New Zealand has a system for strengthening important that New Zealand has a system for strengthening buildings system for strengthening buildings that system for strengthening buildings that is system for strengthening buildings that is fit system for strengthening buildings that is fit for system for strengthening buildings that is fit for purpose. system for strengthening buildings that is fit for purpose. The system for strengthening buildings that is fit for purpose. The closure that is fit for purpose. The closure of that is fit for purpose. The closure of earthquake-prone that is fit for purpose. The closure of earthquake-prone buildings that is fit for purpose. The closure of earthquake-prone buildings comes of earthquake-prone buildings comes with of earthquake-prone buildings comes with significant of earthquake-prone buildings comes with significant social of earthquake-prone buildings comes with significant social and of earthquake-prone buildings comes with significant social and economic with significant social and economic costs with significant social and economic costs resulting with significant social and economic costs resulting in with significant social and economic costs resulting in often costs resulting in often unaffordable, costs resulting in often unaffordable, unsustainable costs resulting in often unaffordable, unsustainable position unaffordable, unsustainable position for unaffordable, unsustainable position for building unaffordable, unsustainable position for building owners", unaffordable, unsustainable position for building owners", said unaffordable, unsustainable position for building owners", said the for building owners", said the mayor. for building owners", said the mayor. So for building owners", said the mayor. So and for building owners", said the mayor. So and then for building owners", said the mayor. So and then also for building owners", said the mayor. So and then also we for building owners", said the mayor. So and then also we have for building owners", said the mayor. So and then also we have - mayor. So and then also we have - here mayor. So and then also we have - here I mayor. So and then also we have - here I have mayor. So and then also we have - here I have another mayor. So and then also we have - here I have another quote mayor. So and then also we have - here I have another quote from here I have another quote from another here I have another quote from another mayor, here I have another quote from another mayor, deputy here I have another quote from another mayor, deputy mayor here I have another quote from another mayor, deputy mayor in here I have another quote from another mayor, deputy mayor in this another mayor, deputy mayor in this case another mayor, deputy mayor in this case from another mayor, deputy mayor in this case from the another mayor, deputy mayor in this case from the Manitou, another mayor, deputy mayor in this case from the Manitou, Michael another mayor, deputy mayor in this case from the Manitou, Michael Ford, case from the Manitou, Michael Ford, said, case from the Manitou, Michael Ford, said, "The case from the Manitou, Michael Ford, said, "The building case from the Manitou, Michael Ford, said, "The building construction said, "The building construction Minister said, "The building construction Minister Chris said, "The building construction Minister Chris Penk said, "The building construction Minister Chris Penk had said, "The building construction Minister Chris Penk had listened said, "The building construction Minister Chris Penk had listened to Minister Chris Penk had listened to councils Minister Chris Penk had listened to councils by Minister Chris Penk had listened to councils by providing Minister Chris Penk had listened to councils by providing a Minister Chris Penk had listened to councils by providing a time Minister Chris Penk had listened to councils by providing a time frame councils by providing a time frame extension councils by providing a time frame extension which councils by providing a time frame extension which helped councils by providing a time frame extension which helped take councils by providing a time frame extension which helped take some extension which helped take some pressure extension which helped take some pressure off. extension which helped take some pressure off. This extension which helped take some pressure off. This is extension which helped take some pressure off. This is not extension which helped take some pressure off. This is not a pressure off. This is not a one-size-fits-all pressure off. This is not a one-size-fits-all solution pressure off. This is not a one-size-fits-all solution for pressure off. This is not a one-size-fits-all solution for this one-size-fits-all solution for this important one-size-fits-all solution for this important issue one-size-fits-all solution for this important issue facing one-size-fits-all solution for this important issue facing our one-size-fits-all solution for this important issue facing our region. important issue facing our region. The important issue facing our region. The review important issue facing our region. The review will important issue facing our region. The review will need important issue facing our region. The review will need to important issue facing our region. The review will need to answer important issue facing our region. The review will need to answer some The review will need to answer some fundamental The review will need to answer some fundamental questions The review will need to answer some fundamental questions about The review will need to answer some fundamental questions about how The review will need to answer some fundamental questions about how the fundamental questions about how the system fundamental questions about how the system could fundamental questions about how the system could work fundamental questions about how the system could work better fundamental questions about how the system could work better in fundamental questions about how the system could work better in the system could work better in the future." system could work better in the future." And system could work better in the future." And as system could work better in the future." And as a system could work better in the future." And as a final system could work better in the future." And as a final comment, system could work better in the future." And as a final comment, I future." And as a final comment, I would future." And as a final comment, I would just future." And as a final comment, I would just note future." And as a final comment, I would just note that future." And as a final comment, I would just note that the would just note that the exceptionally would just note that the exceptionally outstanding would just note that the exceptionally outstanding MP would just note that the exceptionally outstanding MP for exceptionally outstanding MP for Napier exceptionally outstanding MP for Napier is exceptionally outstanding MP for Napier is quoted exceptionally outstanding MP for Napier is quoted in exceptionally outstanding MP for Napier is quoted in her exceptionally outstanding MP for Napier is quoted in her local exceptionally outstanding MP for Napier is quoted in her local paper Napier is quoted in her local paper as Napier is quoted in her local paper as saying, Napier is quoted in her local paper as saying, "The Napier is quoted in her local paper as saying, "The earthquake Napier is quoted in her local paper as saying, "The earthquake prone as saying, "The earthquake prone buildings as saying, "The earthquake prone buildings review as saying, "The earthquake prone buildings review being as saying, "The earthquake prone buildings review being brought buildings review being brought forward buildings review being brought forward is buildings review being brought forward is good buildings review being brought forward is good news buildings review being brought forward is good news for buildings review being brought forward is good news for Napier." buildings review being brought forward is good news for Napier." So forward is good news for Napier." So I forward is good news for Napier." So I just forward is good news for Napier." So I just think forward is good news for Napier." So I just think this forward is good news for Napier." So I just think this highlights forward is good news for Napier." So I just think this highlights is forward is good news for Napier." So I just think this highlights is that I just think this highlights is that this I just think this highlights is that this is I just think this highlights is that this is an I just think this highlights is that this is an issue I just think this highlights is that this is an issue that I just think this highlights is that this is an issue that needs this is an issue that needs addressing. this is an issue that needs addressing. We this is an issue that needs addressing. We have this is an issue that needs addressing. We have a this is an issue that needs addressing. We have a min this is an issue that needs addressing. We have a min who this is an issue that needs addressing. We have a min who is addressing. We have a min who is listening. addressing. We have a min who is listening. I addressing. We have a min who is listening. I think addressing. We have a min who is listening. I think that addressing. We have a min who is listening. I think that what addressing. We have a min who is listening. I think that what this listening. I think that what this Government listening. I think that what this Government is listening. I think that what this Government is doing listening. I think that what this Government is doing a listening. I think that what this Government is doing a great listening. I think that what this Government is doing a great job listening. I think that what this Government is doing a great job of, Government is doing a great job of, we're Government is doing a great job of, we're listening Government is doing a great job of, we're listening to Government is doing a great job of, we're listening to what Government is doing a great job of, we're listening to what the Government is doing a great job of, we're listening to what the people we're listening to what the people of we're listening to what the people of New we're listening to what the people of New Zealand we're listening to what the people of New Zealand want, we're listening to what the people of New Zealand want, they we're listening to what the people of New Zealand want, they want we're listening to what the people of New Zealand want, they want us we're listening to what the people of New Zealand want, they want us to of New Zealand want, they want us to review of New Zealand want, they want us to review this, of New Zealand want, they want us to review this, give of New Zealand want, they want us to review this, give us of New Zealand want, they want us to review this, give us time of New Zealand want, they want us to review this, give us time to... review this, give us time to... Properly review this, give us time to... Properly and review this, give us time to... Properly and I review this, give us time to... Properly and I commend review this, give us time to... Properly and I commend this review this, give us time to... Properly and I commend this bill review this, give us time to... Properly and I commend this bill to Properly and I commend this bill to the Properly and I commend this bill to the House. Properly and I commend this bill to the House. Dr Properly and I commend this bill to the House. Dr Tracey Properly and I commend this bill to the House. Dr Tracey McLellan. Properly and I commend this bill to the House. Dr Tracey McLellan. Thank the House. Dr Tracey McLellan. Thank you, the House. Dr Tracey McLellan. Thank you, Madam the House. Dr Tracey McLellan. Thank you, Madam Speaker, the House. Dr Tracey McLellan. Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the House. Dr Tracey McLellan. Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the the House. Dr Tracey McLellan. Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the chance you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to say you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to say a you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to say a few you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to say a few words you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to say a few words on you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to say a few words on this you, Madam Speaker, for the chance to say a few words on this Building to say a few words on this Building (Earthquake-prone to say a few words on this Building (Earthquake-prone Building to say a few words on this Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Thinking and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Thinking about and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Thinking about this and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Thinking about this bill and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. Thinking about this bill and Thinking about this bill and listening Thinking about this bill and listening to Thinking about this bill and listening to some Thinking about this bill and listening to some of Thinking about this bill and listening to some of the listening to some of the contributions listening to some of the contributions always listening to some of the contributions always reminds listening to some of the contributions always reminds me listening to some of the contributions always reminds me of contributions always reminds me of one contributions always reminds me of one of contributions always reminds me of one of those contributions always reminds me of one of those frustrating, contributions always reminds me of one of those frustrating, but contributions always reminds me of one of those frustrating, but real, one of those frustrating, but real, facts one of those frustrating, but real, facts about one of those frustrating, but real, facts about human one of those frustrating, but real, facts about human beings, one of those frustrating, but real, facts about human beings, and one of those frustrating, but real, facts about human beings, and that facts about human beings, and that is facts about human beings, and that is our facts about human beings, and that is our reliability, facts about human beings, and that is our reliability, if facts about human beings, and that is our reliability, if not facts about human beings, and that is our reliability, if not always facts about human beings, and that is our reliability, if not always in is our reliability, if not always in a is our reliability, if not always in a valid is our reliability, if not always in a valid way, is our reliability, if not always in a valid way, to is our reliability, if not always in a valid way, to favour is our reliability, if not always in a valid way, to favour the is our reliability, if not always in a valid way, to favour the immediacy a valid way, to favour the immediacy bias, a valid way, to favour the immediacy bias, to a valid way, to favour the immediacy bias, to always a valid way, to favour the immediacy bias, to always be a valid way, to favour the immediacy bias, to always be thinking a valid way, to favour the immediacy bias, to always be thinking about bias, to always be thinking about what's bias, to always be thinking about what's right bias, to always be thinking about what's right in bias, to always be thinking about what's right in front bias, to always be thinking about what's right in front of bias, to always be thinking about what's right in front of us bias, to always be thinking about what's right in front of us and bias, to always be thinking about what's right in front of us and how what's right in front of us and how much what's right in front of us and how much it what's right in front of us and how much it might what's right in front of us and how much it might cost what's right in front of us and how much it might cost or what's right in front of us and how much it might cost or what what's right in front of us and how much it might cost or what a what's right in front of us and how much it might cost or what a hassle much it might cost or what a hassle it much it might cost or what a hassle it might much it might cost or what a hassle it might be much it might cost or what a hassle it might be instead much it might cost or what a hassle it might be instead of much it might cost or what a hassle it might be instead of actually it might be instead of actually putting it might be instead of actually putting the it might be instead of actually putting the work it might be instead of actually putting the work in it might be instead of actually putting the work in to it might be instead of actually putting the work in to saving it might be instead of actually putting the work in to saving our putting the work in to saving our own putting the work in to saving our own skins putting the work in to saving our own skins and putting the work in to saving our own skins and doing putting the work in to saving our own skins and doing what's putting the work in to saving our own skins and doing what's best putting the work in to saving our own skins and doing what's best and own skins and doing what's best and so own skins and doing what's best and so far own skins and doing what's best and so far as own skins and doing what's best and so far as the own skins and doing what's best and so far as the safety own skins and doing what's best and so far as the safety issue. own skins and doing what's best and so far as the safety issue. And own skins and doing what's best and so far as the safety issue. And as so far as the safety issue. And as other so far as the safety issue. And as other contributors so far as the safety issue. And as other contributors have so far as the safety issue. And as other contributors have also other contributors have also mentioned, other contributors have also mentioned, Madam other contributors have also mentioned, Madam Speaker, other contributors have also mentioned, Madam Speaker, the mentioned, Madam Speaker, the impetus mentioned, Madam Speaker, the impetus for mentioned, Madam Speaker, the impetus for this mentioned, Madam Speaker, the impetus for this current mentioned, Madam Speaker, the impetus for this current law mentioned, Madam Speaker, the impetus for this current law is impetus for this current law is premised impetus for this current law is premised on impetus for this current law is premised on the impetus for this current law is premised on the lessons impetus for this current law is premised on the lessons we impetus for this current law is premised on the lessons we learnt premised on the lessons we learnt from premised on the lessons we learnt from Christchurch premised on the lessons we learnt from Christchurch and premised on the lessons we learnt from Christchurch and I premised on the lessons we learnt from Christchurch and I know premised on the lessons we learnt from Christchurch and I know I from Christchurch and I know I certainly from Christchurch and I know I certainly will from Christchurch and I know I certainly will never, from Christchurch and I know I certainly will never, ever from Christchurch and I know I certainly will never, ever get from Christchurch and I know I certainly will never, ever get out certainly will never, ever get out of certainly will never, ever get out of my certainly will never, ever get out of my mind certainly will never, ever get out of my mind all certainly will never, ever get out of my mind all of certainly will never, ever get out of my mind all of the certainly will never, ever get out of my mind all of the sights certainly will never, ever get out of my mind all of the sights and certainly will never, ever get out of my mind all of the sights and all of my mind all of the sights and all of of my mind all of the sights and all of the of my mind all of the sights and all of the sounds of my mind all of the sights and all of the sounds and of my mind all of the sights and all of the sounds and all of my mind all of the sights and all of the sounds and all of of my mind all of the sights and all of the sounds and all of the of my mind all of the sights and all of the sounds and all of the smells of the sounds and all of the smells and of the sounds and all of the smells and all of the sounds and all of the smells and all of of the sounds and all of the smells and all of the of the sounds and all of the smells and all of the horrible of the sounds and all of the smells and all of the horrible things of the sounds and all of the smells and all of the horrible things that and all of the horrible things that I and all of the horrible things that I witnessed and all of the horrible things that I witnessed on and all of the horrible things that I witnessed on that and all of the horrible things that I witnessed on that day and all of the horrible things that I witnessed on that day in and all of the horrible things that I witnessed on that day in the and all of the horrible things that I witnessed on that day in the city I witnessed on that day in the city centre I witnessed on that day in the city centre in I witnessed on that day in the city centre in Christchurch I witnessed on that day in the city centre in Christchurch in I witnessed on that day in the city centre in Christchurch in 2011. centre in Christchurch in 2011. Whilst centre in Christchurch in 2011. Whilst nothing centre in Christchurch in 2011. Whilst nothing could centre in Christchurch in 2011. Whilst nothing could ever centre in Christchurch in 2011. Whilst nothing could ever have Whilst nothing could ever have provided Whilst nothing could ever have provided any Whilst nothing could ever have provided any forewarning Whilst nothing could ever have provided any forewarning and Whilst nothing could ever have provided any forewarning and there provided any forewarning and there was provided any forewarning and there was no provided any forewarning and there was no building provided any forewarning and there was no building code provided any forewarning and there was no building code that provided any forewarning and there was no building code that would provided any forewarning and there was no building code that would ever was no building code that would ever have was no building code that would ever have prevented was no building code that would ever have prevented the was no building code that would ever have prevented the CTV was no building code that would ever have prevented the CTV building have prevented the CTV building coming have prevented the CTV building coming down have prevented the CTV building coming down and have prevented the CTV building coming down and taking have prevented the CTV building coming down and taking the have prevented the CTV building coming down and taking the life have prevented the CTV building coming down and taking the life of coming down and taking the life of my coming down and taking the life of my friend coming down and taking the life of my friend and coming down and taking the life of my friend and work coming down and taking the life of my friend and work mate, coming down and taking the life of my friend and work mate, I coming down and taking the life of my friend and work mate, I think coming down and taking the life of my friend and work mate, I think it my friend and work mate, I think it is my friend and work mate, I think it is up my friend and work mate, I think it is up to my friend and work mate, I think it is up to the my friend and work mate, I think it is up to the people my friend and work mate, I think it is up to the people who my friend and work mate, I think it is up to the people who lived is up to the people who lived through is up to the people who lived through that is up to the people who lived through that experience, through that experience, particularly through that experience, particularly some through that experience, particularly some of through that experience, particularly some of the through that experience, particularly some of the people through that experience, particularly some of the people who particularly some of the people who experienced particularly some of the people who experienced real particularly some of the people who experienced real harm particularly some of the people who experienced real harm and particularly some of the people who experienced real harm and have experienced real harm and have dedicated experienced real harm and have dedicated their experienced real harm and have dedicated their time experienced real harm and have dedicated their time since experienced real harm and have dedicated their time since then experienced real harm and have dedicated their time since then to dedicated their time since then to campaign dedicated their time since then to campaign for dedicated their time since then to campaign for better dedicated their time since then to campaign for better regulations dedicated their time since then to campaign for better regulations and campaign for better regulations and for campaign for better regulations and for better campaign for better regulations and for better safety, campaign for better regulations and for better safety, particularly campaign for better regulations and for better safety, particularly with for better safety, particularly with buildings for better safety, particularly with buildings and for better safety, particularly with buildings and what for better safety, particularly with buildings and what can for better safety, particularly with buildings and what can only for better safety, particularly with buildings and what can only be buildings and what can only be described buildings and what can only be described as buildings and what can only be described as a buildings and what can only be described as a very buildings and what can only be described as a very earthquake-prone described as a very earthquake-prone country described as a very earthquake-prone country that described as a very earthquake-prone country that we described as a very earthquake-prone country that we live described as a very earthquake-prone country that we live in. described as a very earthquake-prone country that we live in. But, described as a very earthquake-prone country that we live in. But, Madam country that we live in. But, Madam Speaker, country that we live in. But, Madam Speaker, it's country that we live in. But, Madam Speaker, it's not country that we live in. But, Madam Speaker, it's not to country that we live in. But, Madam Speaker, it's not to say country that we live in. But, Madam Speaker, it's not to say that country that we live in. But, Madam Speaker, it's not to say that we Speaker, it's not to say that we don't Speaker, it's not to say that we don't always Speaker, it's not to say that we don't always appreciate Speaker, it's not to say that we don't always appreciate the Speaker, it's not to say that we don't always appreciate the fact don't always appreciate the fact that don't always appreciate the fact that this don't always appreciate the fact that this is don't always appreciate the fact that this is complicated don't always appreciate the fact that this is complicated and don't always appreciate the fact that this is complicated and there that this is complicated and there are that this is complicated and there are various that this is complicated and there are various considerations that this is complicated and there are various considerations that that this is complicated and there are various considerations that need are various considerations that need to are various considerations that need to be are various considerations that need to be made. are various considerations that need to be made. We're are various considerations that need to be made. We're not are various considerations that need to be made. We're not supporting are various considerations that need to be made. We're not supporting the to be made. We're not supporting the bill to be made. We're not supporting the bill primarily to be made. We're not supporting the bill primarily because to be made. We're not supporting the bill primarily because of to be made. We're not supporting the bill primarily because of a bill primarily because of a fundamental bill primarily because of a fundamental understanding bill primarily because of a fundamental understanding that bill primarily because of a fundamental understanding that if fundamental understanding that if you fundamental understanding that if you keep fundamental understanding that if you keep kicking fundamental understanding that if you keep kicking the fundamental understanding that if you keep kicking the can fundamental understanding that if you keep kicking the can down fundamental understanding that if you keep kicking the can down the you keep kicking the can down the road, you keep kicking the can down the road, nothing you keep kicking the can down the road, nothing ever you keep kicking the can down the road, nothing ever gets you keep kicking the can down the road, nothing ever gets done. you keep kicking the can down the road, nothing ever gets done. There road, nothing ever gets done. There will road, nothing ever gets done. There will always road, nothing ever gets done. There will always be road, nothing ever gets done. There will always be myriad road, nothing ever gets done. There will always be myriad of will always be myriad of considerations will always be myriad of considerations that will always be myriad of considerations that need will always be myriad of considerations that need to will always be myriad of considerations that need to be will always be myriad of considerations that need to be made. considerations that need to be made. There considerations that need to be made. There will considerations that need to be made. There will always considerations that need to be made. There will always be considerations that need to be made. There will always be competing There will always be competing variables There will always be competing variables at There will always be competing variables at play, There will always be competing variables at play, but There will always be competing variables at play, but at There will always be competing variables at play, but at some variables at play, but at some point, variables at play, but at some point, you variables at play, but at some point, you have variables at play, but at some point, you have just variables at play, but at some point, you have just got variables at play, but at some point, you have just got to variables at play, but at some point, you have just got to get variables at play, but at some point, you have just got to get on point, you have just got to get on with point, you have just got to get on with it. point, you have just got to get on with it. I'd point, you have just got to get on with it. I'd like point, you have just got to get on with it. I'd like to point, you have just got to get on with it. I'd like to also point, you have just got to get on with it. I'd like to also note point, you have just got to get on with it. I'd like to also note that with it. I'd like to also note that whilst with it. I'd like to also note that whilst we with it. I'd like to also note that whilst we talk with it. I'd like to also note that whilst we talk about with it. I'd like to also note that whilst we talk about the with it. I'd like to also note that whilst we talk about the fact with it. I'd like to also note that whilst we talk about the fact that whilst we talk about the fact that people whilst we talk about the fact that people should whilst we talk about the fact that people should never whilst we talk about the fact that people should never be whilst we talk about the fact that people should never be put whilst we talk about the fact that people should never be put at whilst we talk about the fact that people should never be put at undue people should never be put at undue risk people should never be put at undue risk due people should never be put at undue risk due to people should never be put at undue risk due to the people should never be put at undue risk due to the buildings people should never be put at undue risk due to the buildings that risk due to the buildings that they're risk due to the buildings that they're living risk due to the buildings that they're living in risk due to the buildings that they're living in and risk due to the buildings that they're living in and we risk due to the buildings that they're living in and we talk risk due to the buildings that they're living in and we talk about they're living in and we talk about apartments they're living in and we talk about apartments and they're living in and we talk about apartments and we they're living in and we talk about apartments and we talk they're living in and we talk about apartments and we talk about apartments and we talk about Wellington, apartments and we talk about Wellington, can apartments and we talk about Wellington, can I apartments and we talk about Wellington, can I also apartments and we talk about Wellington, can I also just apartments and we talk about Wellington, can I also just remind Wellington, can I also just remind everybody Wellington, can I also just remind everybody that Wellington, can I also just remind everybody that we Wellington, can I also just remind everybody that we also Wellington, can I also just remind everybody that we also shouldn't Wellington, can I also just remind everybody that we also shouldn't be everybody that we also shouldn't be put everybody that we also shouldn't be put at everybody that we also shouldn't be put at undue everybody that we also shouldn't be put at undue risk everybody that we also shouldn't be put at undue risk from everybody that we also shouldn't be put at undue risk from buildings put at undue risk from buildings that put at undue risk from buildings that we put at undue risk from buildings that we merely put at undue risk from buildings that we merely maybe put at undue risk from buildings that we merely maybe driving put at undue risk from buildings that we merely maybe driving past put at undue risk from buildings that we merely maybe driving past or that we merely maybe driving past or we that we merely maybe driving past or we merely that we merely maybe driving past or we merely may that we merely maybe driving past or we merely may be that we merely maybe driving past or we merely may be passing that we merely maybe driving past or we merely may be passing by that we merely maybe driving past or we merely may be passing by just that we merely maybe driving past or we merely may be passing by just for we merely may be passing by just for a we merely may be passing by just for a moment we merely may be passing by just for a moment because we merely may be passing by just for a moment because it we merely may be passing by just for a moment because it took we merely may be passing by just for a moment because it took me we merely may be passing by just for a moment because it took me a we merely may be passing by just for a moment because it took me a long a moment because it took me a long time, a moment because it took me a long time, years a moment because it took me a long time, years actually, a moment because it took me a long time, years actually, particularly a moment because it took me a long time, years actually, particularly I time, years actually, particularly I would time, years actually, particularly I would notice time, years actually, particularly I would notice it time, years actually, particularly I would notice it coming time, years actually, particularly I would notice it coming up time, years actually, particularly I would notice it coming up to would notice it coming up to Wellington would notice it coming up to Wellington walking would notice it coming up to Wellington walking in would notice it coming up to Wellington walking in the would notice it coming up to Wellington walking in the CBD, would notice it coming up to Wellington walking in the CBD, which Wellington walking in the CBD, which is Wellington walking in the CBD, which is a Wellington walking in the CBD, which is a novelty Wellington walking in the CBD, which is a novelty because Wellington walking in the CBD, which is a novelty because we Wellington walking in the CBD, which is a novelty because we didn't Wellington walking in the CBD, which is a novelty because we didn't have is a novelty because we didn't have one is a novelty because we didn't have one for is a novelty because we didn't have one for such is a novelty because we didn't have one for such a is a novelty because we didn't have one for such a long is a novelty because we didn't have one for such a long time is a novelty because we didn't have one for such a long time or is a novelty because we didn't have one for such a long time or a one for such a long time or a concept one for such a long time or a concept of one for such a long time or a concept of some one for such a long time or a concept of some sort one for such a long time or a concept of some sort of one for such a long time or a concept of some sort of business concept of some sort of business district, concept of some sort of business district, walking concept of some sort of business district, walking up concept of some sort of business district, walking up the concept of some sort of business district, walking up the town concept of some sort of business district, walking up the town and district, walking up the town and without district, walking up the town and without even district, walking up the town and without even thinking district, walking up the town and without even thinking about district, walking up the town and without even thinking about it, district, walking up the town and without even thinking about it, my without even thinking about it, my first without even thinking about it, my first thought without even thinking about it, my first thought was without even thinking about it, my first thought was always, without even thinking about it, my first thought was always, "You without even thinking about it, my first thought was always, "You won't first thought was always, "You won't survive first thought was always, "You won't survive if first thought was always, "You won't survive if you first thought was always, "You won't survive if you walk first thought was always, "You won't survive if you walk past first thought was always, "You won't survive if you walk past that survive if you walk past that building", survive if you walk past that building", or, survive if you walk past that building", or, "That survive if you walk past that building", or, "That won't survive if you walk past that building", or, "That won't last survive if you walk past that building", or, "That won't last five building", or, "That won't last five seconds." building", or, "That won't last five seconds." People building", or, "That won't last five seconds." People that building", or, "That won't last five seconds." People that haven't building", or, "That won't last five seconds." People that haven't seen seconds." People that haven't seen it, seconds." People that haven't seen it, take seconds." People that haven't seen it, take it seconds." People that haven't seen it, take it for seconds." People that haven't seen it, take it for granted. seconds." People that haven't seen it, take it for granted. We seconds." People that haven't seen it, take it for granted. We tend seconds." People that haven't seen it, take it for granted. We tend to it, take it for granted. We tend to it, take it for granted. We tend to it, take it for granted. We tend to think that it, take it for granted. We tend to think that we it, take it for granted. We tend to think that we have it, take it for granted. We tend to think that we have sayings it, take it for granted. We tend to think that we have sayings about think that we have sayings about things think that we have sayings about things being think that we have sayings about things being as think that we have sayings about things being as strong think that we have sayings about things being as strong as think that we have sayings about things being as strong as buildings things being as strong as buildings or, things being as strong as buildings or, you things being as strong as buildings or, you know, things being as strong as buildings or, you know, safe things being as strong as buildings or, you know, safe as things being as strong as buildings or, you know, safe as houses things being as strong as buildings or, you know, safe as houses and things being as strong as buildings or, you know, safe as houses and all or, you know, safe as houses and all this or, you know, safe as houses and all this various or, you know, safe as houses and all this various other or, you know, safe as houses and all this various other - or, you know, safe as houses and all this various other - other or, you know, safe as houses and all this various other - other sort or, you know, safe as houses and all this various other - other sort of this various other - other sort of sayings this various other - other sort of sayings that this various other - other sort of sayings that we this various other - other sort of sayings that we have this various other - other sort of sayings that we have learnt this various other - other sort of sayings that we have learnt over sayings that we have learnt over generations sayings that we have learnt over generations to sayings that we have learnt over generations to take sayings that we have learnt over generations to take as sayings that we have learnt over generations to take as truism sayings that we have learnt over generations to take as truism and generations to take as truism and it's generations to take as truism and it's not generations to take as truism and it's not just generations to take as truism and it's not just when generations to take as truism and it's not just when you generations to take as truism and it's not just when you see generations to take as truism and it's not just when you see them generations to take as truism and it's not just when you see them fall it's not just when you see them fall down it's not just when you see them fall down as it's not just when you see them fall down as easily it's not just when you see them fall down as easily as it's not just when you see them fall down as easily as they it's not just when you see them fall down as easily as they can. it's not just when you see them fall down as easily as they can. I it's not just when you see them fall down as easily as they can. I think down as easily as they can. I think it down as easily as they can. I think it is down as easily as they can. I think it is incumbent down as easily as they can. I think it is incumbent upon down as easily as they can. I think it is incumbent upon the down as easily as they can. I think it is incumbent upon the Government it is incumbent upon the Government the it is incumbent upon the Government the at it is incumbent upon the Government the at different it is incumbent upon the Government the at different ways it is incumbent upon the Government the at different ways in it is incumbent upon the Government the at different ways in which it is incumbent upon the Government the at different ways in which we the at different ways in which we can the at different ways in which we can support the at different ways in which we can support - the at different ways in which we can support - no-one the at different ways in which we can support - no-one is the at different ways in which we can support - no-one is saying the at different ways in which we can support - no-one is saying as the at different ways in which we can support - no-one is saying as my can support - no-one is saying as my colleague can support - no-one is saying as my colleague Arena can support - no-one is saying as my colleague Arena Williams can support - no-one is saying as my colleague Arena Williams intimated colleague Arena Williams intimated earlier, colleague Arena Williams intimated earlier, no-one colleague Arena Williams intimated earlier, no-one is colleague Arena Williams intimated earlier, no-one is saying colleague Arena Williams intimated earlier, no-one is saying that colleague Arena Williams intimated earlier, no-one is saying that this earlier, no-one is saying that this is earlier, no-one is saying that this is an earlier, no-one is saying that this is an easy earlier, no-one is saying that this is an easy solution, earlier, no-one is saying that this is an easy solution, or earlier, no-one is saying that this is an easy solution, or there earlier, no-one is saying that this is an easy solution, or there are is an easy solution, or there are quick is an easy solution, or there are quick fixes is an easy solution, or there are quick fixes but is an easy solution, or there are quick fixes but we is an easy solution, or there are quick fixes but we are is an easy solution, or there are quick fixes but we are saying is an easy solution, or there are quick fixes but we are saying that quick fixes but we are saying that the quick fixes but we are saying that the state quick fixes but we are saying that the state of quick fixes but we are saying that the state of the quick fixes but we are saying that the state of the Government quick fixes but we are saying that the state of the Government probably the state of the Government probably do the state of the Government probably do play the state of the Government probably do play some the state of the Government probably do play some sort the state of the Government probably do play some sort of the state of the Government probably do play some sort of role the state of the Government probably do play some sort of role in do play some sort of role in ensuring do play some sort of role in ensuring that do play some sort of role in ensuring that we do play some sort of role in ensuring that we can do play some sort of role in ensuring that we can move do play some sort of role in ensuring that we can move forward ensuring that we can move forward and ensuring that we can move forward and we ensuring that we can move forward and we definitely ensuring that we can move forward and we definitely need ensuring that we can move forward and we definitely need to ensuring that we can move forward and we definitely need to move and we definitely need to move forward. and we definitely need to move forward. This and we definitely need to move forward. This could and we definitely need to move forward. This could potentially and we definitely need to move forward. This could potentially be forward. This could potentially be the forward. This could potentially be the first forward. This could potentially be the first of forward. This could potentially be the first of several forward. This could potentially be the first of several different the first of several different extensions the first of several different extensions and the first of several different extensions and before the first of several different extensions and before we the first of several different extensions and before we know the first of several different extensions and before we know it, the first of several different extensions and before we know it, we extensions and before we know it, we will extensions and before we know it, we will be extensions and before we know it, we will be no extensions and before we know it, we will be no further extensions and before we know it, we will be no further ahead extensions and before we know it, we will be no further ahead and extensions and before we know it, we will be no further ahead and we extensions and before we know it, we will be no further ahead and we will will be no further ahead and we will be will be no further ahead and we will be regretting will be no further ahead and we will be regretting that will be no further ahead and we will be regretting that decision. will be no further ahead and we will be regretting that decision. Madam be regretting that decision. Madam Speaker, be regretting that decision. Madam Speaker, also be regretting that decision. Madam Speaker, also intimidated be regretting that decision. Madam Speaker, also intimidated prior Speaker, also intimidated prior contribution Speaker, also intimidated prior contribution from Speaker, also intimidated prior contribution from Arena Speaker, also intimidated prior contribution from Arena Williams Speaker, also intimidated prior contribution from Arena Williams was contribution from Arena Williams was the contribution from Arena Williams was the fact contribution from Arena Williams was the fact that contribution from Arena Williams was the fact that she contribution from Arena Williams was the fact that she didn't contribution from Arena Williams was the fact that she didn't have contribution from Arena Williams was the fact that she didn't have - the fact that she didn't have - quite the fact that she didn't have - quite have the fact that she didn't have - quite have enough the fact that she didn't have - quite have enough time the fact that she didn't have - quite have enough time to the fact that she didn't have - quite have enough time to go the fact that she didn't have - quite have enough time to go through quite have enough time to go through specifics quite have enough time to go through specifics of quite have enough time to go through specifics of what quite have enough time to go through specifics of what the quite have enough time to go through specifics of what the solutions quite have enough time to go through specifics of what the solutions to specifics of what the solutions to this specifics of what the solutions to this were, specifics of what the solutions to this were, but specifics of what the solutions to this were, but Labour specifics of what the solutions to this were, but Labour solution specifics of what the solutions to this were, but Labour solution in this were, but Labour solution in Government this were, but Labour solution in Government was this were, but Labour solution in Government was the this were, but Labour solution in Government was the residential Government was the residential weather Government was the residential weather forecast Government was the residential weather forecast prone Government was the residential weather forecast prone building weather forecast prone building financial weather forecast prone building financial assistance weather forecast prone building financial assistance scheme. weather forecast prone building financial assistance scheme. And weather forecast prone building financial assistance scheme. And it financial assistance scheme. And it has financial assistance scheme. And it has been financial assistance scheme. And it has been cancelled financial assistance scheme. And it has been cancelled by financial assistance scheme. And it has been cancelled by this has been cancelled by this Government. has been cancelled by this Government. So has been cancelled by this Government. So I has been cancelled by this Government. So I do has been cancelled by this Government. So I do find has been cancelled by this Government. So I do find it has been cancelled by this Government. So I do find it whilst Government. So I do find it whilst the Government. So I do find it whilst the member Government. So I do find it whilst the member who Government. So I do find it whilst the member who made Government. So I do find it whilst the member who made the Government. So I do find it whilst the member who made the contribution the member who made the contribution before the member who made the contribution before me the member who made the contribution before me found the member who made the contribution before me found it the member who made the contribution before me found it somewhat before me found it somewhat perplexing before me found it somewhat perplexing we before me found it somewhat perplexing we weren't before me found it somewhat perplexing we weren't supporting perplexing we weren't supporting this perplexing we weren't supporting this particular perplexing we weren't supporting this particular bill, perplexing we weren't supporting this particular bill, I perplexing we weren't supporting this particular bill, I like-wise this particular bill, I like-wise find this particular bill, I like-wise find it this particular bill, I like-wise find it somewhat this particular bill, I like-wise find it somewhat perplexing this particular bill, I like-wise find it somewhat perplexing that find it somewhat perplexing that some find it somewhat perplexing that some things find it somewhat perplexing that some things that find it somewhat perplexing that some things that could find it somewhat perplexing that some things that could have find it somewhat perplexing that some things that could have been some things that could have been helpful some things that could have been helpful and some things that could have been helpful and could some things that could have been helpful and could have some things that could have been helpful and could have moved some things that could have been helpful and could have moved us helpful and could have moved us along helpful and could have moved us along in helpful and could have moved us along in a helpful and could have moved us along in a bit helpful and could have moved us along in a bit more helpful and could have moved us along in a bit more steady helpful and could have moved us along in a bit more steady way helpful and could have moved us along in a bit more steady way have along in a bit more steady way have been along in a bit more steady way have been cancelled. along in a bit more steady way have been cancelled. But along in a bit more steady way have been cancelled. But nevertheless, been cancelled. But nevertheless, this been cancelled. But nevertheless, this is been cancelled. But nevertheless, this is the been cancelled. But nevertheless, this is the situation been cancelled. But nevertheless, this is the situation we been cancelled. But nevertheless, this is the situation we find this is the situation we find ourselves this is the situation we find ourselves in. this is the situation we find ourselves in. I this is the situation we find ourselves in. I will this is the situation we find ourselves in. I will watch this is the situation we find ourselves in. I will watch with this is the situation we find ourselves in. I will watch with keen ourselves in. I will watch with keen interest ourselves in. I will watch with keen interest as ourselves in. I will watch with keen interest as it ourselves in. I will watch with keen interest as it goes ourselves in. I will watch with keen interest as it goes through ourselves in. I will watch with keen interest as it goes through the interest as it goes through the select interest as it goes through the select committee interest as it goes through the select committee stage interest as it goes through the select committee stage undoubtedly select committee stage undoubtedly and select committee stage undoubtedly and look select committee stage undoubtedly and look forward select committee stage undoubtedly and look forward to select committee stage undoubtedly and look forward to hearing select committee stage undoubtedly and look forward to hearing all select committee stage undoubtedly and look forward to hearing all the and look forward to hearing all the contributions and look forward to hearing all the contributions from and look forward to hearing all the contributions from people and look forward to hearing all the contributions from people with and look forward to hearing all the contributions from people with lived contributions from people with lived experience contributions from people with lived experience and contributions from people with lived experience and all contributions from people with lived experience and all of contributions from people with lived experience and all of the contributions from people with lived experience and all of the expertise experience and all of the expertise that experience and all of the expertise that will experience and all of the expertise that will be experience and all of the expertise that will be led experience and all of the expertise that will be led in experience and all of the expertise that will be led in that experience and all of the expertise that will be led in that direction. that will be led in that direction. Thank that will be led in that direction. Thank you. that will be led in that direction. Thank you. Tom that will be led in that direction. Thank you. Tom Rutherford. that will be led in that direction. Thank you. Tom Rutherford. Madam Thank you. Tom Rutherford. Madam Speaker, Thank you. Tom Rutherford. Madam Speaker, I Thank you. Tom Rutherford. Madam Speaker, I rise Thank you. Tom Rutherford. Madam Speaker, I rise today Thank you. Tom Rutherford. Madam Speaker, I rise today to Thank you. Tom Rutherford. Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak Thank you. Tom Rutherford. Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak in Speaker, I rise today to speak in support Speaker, I rise today to speak in support of Speaker, I rise today to speak in support of the Speaker, I rise today to speak in support of the Building support of the Building (Earthquake-prone support of the Building (Earthquake-prone Building support of the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. This and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. This bill and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. This bill addresses and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. This bill addresses critical and Other Matters) Amendment Bill. This bill addresses critical issues This bill addresses critical issues regarding This bill addresses critical issues regarding the This bill addresses critical issues regarding the safety This bill addresses critical issues regarding the safety and This bill addresses critical issues regarding the safety and economic regarding the safety and economic viability regarding the safety and economic viability of regarding the safety and economic viability of our regarding the safety and economic viability of our buildings regarding the safety and economic viability of our buildings in regarding the safety and economic viability of our buildings in the viability of our buildings in the face viability of our buildings in the face of viability of our buildings in the face of seismic viability of our buildings in the face of seismic risks. viability of our buildings in the face of seismic risks. It viability of our buildings in the face of seismic risks. It aims viability of our buildings in the face of seismic risks. It aims to face of seismic risks. It aims to provide face of seismic risks. It aims to provide clarity face of seismic risks. It aims to provide clarity and face of seismic risks. It aims to provide clarity and breathing face of seismic risks. It aims to provide clarity and breathing space provide clarity and breathing space for provide clarity and breathing space for building provide clarity and breathing space for building owners provide clarity and breathing space for building owners and provide clarity and breathing space for building owners and territorial for building owners and territorial authorities for building owners and territorial authorities as for building owners and territorial authorities as we for building owners and territorial authorities as we work for building owners and territorial authorities as we work towards for building owners and territorial authorities as we work towards a authorities as we work towards a more authorities as we work towards a more effective authorities as we work towards a more effective system authorities as we work towards a more effective system for authorities as we work towards a more effective system for managing more effective system for managing earthquake-prone more effective system for managing earthquake-prone buildings. more effective system for managing earthquake-prone buildings. The earthquake-prone buildings. The current earthquake-prone buildings. The current system earthquake-prone buildings. The current system implemented earthquake-prone buildings. The current system implemented in earthquake-prone buildings. The current system implemented in 2017 current system implemented in 2017 aimed current system implemented in 2017 aimed to current system implemented in 2017 aimed to reduce current system implemented in 2017 aimed to reduce the current system implemented in 2017 aimed to reduce the risk current system implemented in 2017 aimed to reduce the risk to current system implemented in 2017 aimed to reduce the risk to life current system implemented in 2017 aimed to reduce the risk to life by aimed to reduce the risk to life by requiring aimed to reduce the risk to life by requiring the aimed to reduce the risk to life by requiring the remediation aimed to reduce the risk to life by requiring the remediation of aimed to reduce the risk to life by requiring the remediation of - aimed to reduce the risk to life by requiring the remediation of - of requiring the remediation of - of our requiring the remediation of - of our most requiring the remediation of - of our most vulnerable requiring the remediation of - of our most vulnerable buildings. our most vulnerable buildings. However, our most vulnerable buildings. However, it our most vulnerable buildings. However, it has our most vulnerable buildings. However, it has become our most vulnerable buildings. However, it has become clear our most vulnerable buildings. However, it has become clear that However, it has become clear that this However, it has become clear that this system However, it has become clear that this system is However, it has become clear that this system is not However, it has become clear that this system is not working However, it has become clear that this system is not working as this system is not working as effectively this system is not working as effectively as this system is not working as effectively as intended. this system is not working as effectively as intended. Around this system is not working as effectively as intended. Around 150 effectively as intended. Around 150 buildings effectively as intended. Around 150 buildings have effectively as intended. Around 150 buildings have already effectively as intended. Around 150 buildings have already failed effectively as intended. Around 150 buildings have already failed to buildings have already failed to meet buildings have already failed to meet their buildings have already failed to meet their remediation buildings have already failed to meet their remediation deadlines buildings have already failed to meet their remediation deadlines and meet their remediation deadlines and many meet their remediation deadlines and many more meet their remediation deadlines and many more are meet their remediation deadlines and many more are unlikely meet their remediation deadlines and many more are unlikely to meet their remediation deadlines and many more are unlikely to be many more are unlikely to be remediated many more are unlikely to be remediated due many more are unlikely to be remediated due to many more are unlikely to be remediated due to high many more are unlikely to be remediated due to high costs many more are unlikely to be remediated due to high costs and remediated due to high costs and other remediated due to high costs and other barriers. remediated due to high costs and other barriers. With remediated due to high costs and other barriers. With nearly remediated due to high costs and other barriers. With nearly 500 other barriers. With nearly 500 deadlines other barriers. With nearly 500 deadlines set other barriers. With nearly 500 deadlines set to other barriers. With nearly 500 deadlines set to expire other barriers. With nearly 500 deadlines set to expire over other barriers. With nearly 500 deadlines set to expire over the deadlines set to expire over the next deadlines set to expire over the next four deadlines set to expire over the next four years, deadlines set to expire over the next four years, we deadlines set to expire over the next four years, we are deadlines set to expire over the next four years, we are facing deadlines set to expire over the next four years, we are facing a next four years, we are facing a potential next four years, we are facing a potential crisis next four years, we are facing a potential crisis that next four years, we are facing a potential crisis that could next four years, we are facing a potential crisis that could have potential crisis that could have devastating potential crisis that could have potential potential crisis that could have devastating impacts on potential crisis that could have devastating impacts on our potential crisis that could have devastating impacts on our economy. devastating impacts on our economy. The devastating impacts on our economy. The key devastating impacts on our economy. The key purpose devastating impacts on our economy. The key purpose of devastating impacts on our economy. The key purpose of this devastating impacts on our economy. The key purpose of this bill devastating impacts on our economy. The key purpose of this bill is devastating impacts on our economy. The key purpose of this bill is to The key purpose of this bill is to extend The key purpose of this bill is to extend the The key purpose of this bill is to extend the remediation The key purpose of this bill is to extend the remediation time The key purpose of this bill is to extend the remediation time frames extend the remediation time frames for extend the remediation time frames for earthquake-prone extend the remediation time frames for earthquake-prone buildings extend the remediation time frames for earthquake-prone buildings by for earthquake-prone buildings by four for earthquake-prone buildings by four years for earthquake-prone buildings by four years with for earthquake-prone buildings by four years with a for earthquake-prone buildings by four years with a limited for earthquake-prone buildings by four years with a limited power for earthquake-prone buildings by four years with a limited power to four years with a limited power to extend four years with a limited power to four four years with a limited power to extend deadlines by four years with a limited power to extend deadlines by an four years with a limited power to extend deadlines by an extra four years with a limited power to extend deadlines by an extra two extend deadlines by an extra two extend deadlines by an extra two extend deadlines by an extra two years. This extend deadlines by an extra two years. This extension extend deadlines by an extra two years. This extension provides years. This extension provides clarity years. This extension provides clarity for years. This extension provides clarity for building years. This extension provides clarity for building owners years. This extension provides clarity for building owners and clarity for building owners and territorial clarity for building owners and territorial authorities, clarity for building owners and territorial authorities, prevents territorial authorities, prevents clusters territorial authorities, prevents clusters of territorial authorities, prevents clusters of expiring territorial authorities, prevents clusters of expiring deadlines, territorial authorities, prevents clusters of expiring deadlines, and clusters of expiring deadlines, and offers clusters of expiring deadlines, and offers release clusters of expiring deadlines, and offers release - clusters of expiring deadlines, and offers release - offers clusters of expiring deadlines, and offers release - offers relief clusters of expiring deadlines, and offers release - offers relief from offers release - offers relief from enforcement offers release - offers relief from enforcement challenges. offers release - offers relief from enforcement challenges. Alongside enforcement challenges. Alongside this enforcement challenges. Alongside this extension, enforcement challenges. Alongside this extension, our enforcement challenges. Alongside this extension, our Government enforcement challenges. Alongside this extension, our Government is this extension, our Government is initiating this extension, our Government is initiating a this extension, our Government is initiating a comprehensive this extension, our Government is initiating a comprehensive review this extension, our Government is initiating a comprehensive review of initiating a comprehensive review of the initiating a comprehensive review of the earthquake-prone initiating a comprehensive review of the earthquake-prone building initiating a comprehensive review of the earthquake-prone building system the earthquake-prone building system to the earthquake-prone building system to be the earthquake-prone building system to be completed the earthquake-prone building system to be completed in the earthquake-prone building system to be completed in the the earthquake-prone building system to be completed in the first the earthquake-prone building system to be completed in the first half the earthquake-prone building system to be completed in the first half of to be completed in the first half of 2025. to be completed in the first half of 2025. This to be completed in the first half of 2025. This review to be completed in the first half of 2025. This review will to be completed in the first half of 2025. This review will focus to be completed in the first half of 2025. This review will focus on 2025. This review will focus on costs, 2025. This review will focus on costs, risk 2025. This review will focus on costs, risk management 2025. This review will focus on costs, risk management proposals, costs, risk management proposals, compliance costs, risk management proposals, compliance barriers costs, risk management proposals, compliance barriers and costs, risk management proposals, compliance barriers and alignment compliance barriers and alignment with compliance barriers and alignment with broader compliance barriers and alignment with broader Government compliance barriers and alignment with broader Government objectives. with broader Government objectives. The with broader Government objectives. The bill with broader Government objectives. The bill also with broader Government objectives. The bill also clarifies The bill also clarifies responsibilities The bill also clarifies responsibilities in The bill also clarifies responsibilities in the The bill also clarifies responsibilities in the building responsibilities in the building warrant responsibilities in the building warrant of responsibilities in the building warrant of fitness responsibilities in the building warrant of fitness scheme responsibilities in the building warrant of fitness scheme and responsibilities in the building warrant of fitness scheme and proves warrant of fitness scheme and proves the warrant of fitness scheme and proves the building warrant of fitness scheme and proves the building levy warrant of fitness scheme and proves the building levy collection warrant of fitness scheme and proves the building levy collection system the building levy collection system and the building levy collection system and addresses the building levy collection system and addresses inconsistency the building levy collection system and addresses inconsistency - and addresses inconsistency - inconsistencies and addresses inconsistency - inconsistencies and and addresses inconsistency - inconsistencies and dam and addresses inconsistency - inconsistencies and dam safety inconsistencies and dam safety penalties inconsistencies and dam safety penalties and inconsistencies and dam safety penalties and obligations. inconsistencies and dam safety penalties and obligations. Madam penalties and obligations. Madam Speaker, penalties and obligations. Madam Speaker, we're penalties and obligations. Madam Speaker, we're striking penalties and obligations. Madam Speaker, we're striking a penalties and obligations. Madam Speaker, we're striking a critical Speaker, we're striking a critical balance Speaker, we're striking a critical balance between Speaker, we're striking a critical balance between public Speaker, we're striking a critical balance between public safety Speaker, we're striking a critical balance between public safety and balance between public safety and economic balance between public safety and economic consequences. balance between public safety and economic consequences. The economic consequences. The devastation economic consequences. The devastation of economic consequences. The devastation of the economic consequences. The devastation of the Christchurch devastation of the Christchurch earthquakes devastation of the Christchurch earthquakes is devastation of the Christchurch earthquakes is still devastation of the Christchurch earthquakes is still fresh devastation of the Christchurch earthquakes is still fresh in devastation of the Christchurch earthquakes is still fresh in our earthquakes is still fresh in our national earthquakes is still fresh in our national memory earthquakes is still fresh in our national memory and earthquakes is still fresh in our national memory and we earthquakes is still fresh in our national memory and we must earthquakes is still fresh in our national memory and we must do earthquakes is still fresh in our national memory and we must do all national memory and we must do all we national memory and we must do all we can national memory and we must do all we can to national memory and we must do all we can to prevent national memory and we must do all we can to prevent such national memory and we must do all we can to prevent such tragedy national memory and we must do all we can to prevent such tragedy in we can to prevent such tragedy in the we can to prevent such tragedy in the future. we can to prevent such tragedy in the future. We we can to prevent such tragedy in the future. We must we can to prevent such tragedy in the future. We must also we can to prevent such tragedy in the future. We must also face we can to prevent such tragedy in the future. We must also face the the future. We must also face the very the future. We must also face the very real the future. We must also face the very real con the future. We must also face the very real con - the future. We must also face the very real con - economic very real con - economic consequences very real con - economic consequences of very real con - economic consequences of an very real con - economic consequences of an overly-burdensome consequences of an overly-burdensome regulations, consequences of an overly-burdensome regulations, empty consequences of an overly-burdensome regulations, empty buildings consequences of an overly-burdensome regulations, empty buildings in consequences of an overly-burdensome regulations, empty buildings in our regulations, empty buildings in our city regulations, empty buildings in our city centres regulations, empty buildings in our city centres and regulations, empty buildings in our city centres and towns regulations, empty buildings in our city centres and towns don't regulations, empty buildings in our city centres and towns don't just city centres and towns don't just represent city centres and towns don't just represent lost city centres and towns don't just represent lost revenue, city centres and towns don't just represent lost revenue, by city centres and towns don't just represent lost revenue, by represent represent lost revenue, by represent lost represent lost revenue, by represent lost jobs, represent lost revenue, by represent lost jobs, lost represent lost revenue, by represent lost jobs, lost community represent lost revenue, by represent lost jobs, lost community spaces, lost jobs, lost community spaces, and lost jobs, lost community spaces, and lost lost jobs, lost community spaces, and lost vitality lost jobs, lost community spaces, and lost vitality in lost jobs, lost community spaces, and lost vitality in our lost jobs, lost community spaces, and lost vitality in our urban and lost vitality in our urban areas. and lost vitality in our urban areas. In and lost vitality in our urban areas. In conclusion, and lost vitality in our urban areas. In conclusion, this and lost vitality in our urban areas. In conclusion, this bill areas. In conclusion, this bill represents areas. In conclusion, this bill represents a areas. In conclusion, this bill represents a balanced areas. In conclusion, this bill represents a balanced approach areas. In conclusion, this bill represents a balanced approach to areas. In conclusion, this bill represents a balanced approach to a represents a balanced approach to a complex represents a balanced approach to a complex problem. represents a balanced approach to a complex problem. It represents a balanced approach to a complex problem. It provides complex problem. It provides necessary complex problem. It provides necessary relief complex problem. It provides necessary relief and complex problem. It provides necessary relief and time complex problem. It provides necessary relief and time for necessary relief and time for building necessary relief and time for building owners necessary relief and time for building owners and necessary relief and time for building owners and local building owners and local authorities building owners and local authorities while building owners and local authorities while work building owners and local authorities while work is building owners and local authorities while work is done authorities while work is done towards authorities while work is done towards a authorities while work is done towards a more authorities while work is done towards a more effective authorities while work is done towards a more effective and towards a more effective and sustainable towards a more effective and sustainable system towards a more effective and sustainable system for towards a more effective and sustainable system for managing sustainable system for managing earthquake-prone sustainable system for managing earthquake-prone buildings. sustainable system for managing earthquake-prone buildings. It's earthquake-prone buildings. It's about earthquake-prone buildings. It's about finding earthquake-prone buildings. It's about finding the earthquake-prone buildings. It's about finding the right earthquake-prone buildings. It's about finding the right balance about finding the right balance between about finding the right balance between safety about finding the right balance between safety and about finding the right balance between safety and economic between safety and economic sustainability. between safety and economic sustainability. I between safety and economic sustainability. I urge between safety and economic sustainability. I urge all between safety and economic sustainability. I urge all members sustainability. I urge all members to sustainability. I urge all members to support sustainability. I urge all members to support this sustainability. I urge all members to support this bill sustainability. I urge all members to support this bill and sustainability. I urge all members to support this bill and I sustainability. I urge all members to support this bill and I encourage to support this bill and I encourage them to support this bill and I encourage them to to support this bill and I encourage them to engage to support this bill and I encourage them to engage constructively to support this bill and I encourage them to engage constructively in to support this bill and I encourage them to engage constructively in the them to engage constructively in the select them to engage constructively in the select committee them to engage constructively in the select committee process. them to engage constructively in the select committee process. The them to engage constructively in the select committee process. The safety select committee process. The safety and select committee process. The safety and prosperity select committee process. The safety and prosperity of select committee process. The safety and prosperity of our select committee process. The safety and prosperity of our communities and prosperity of our communities depends and prosperity of our communities depends on and prosperity of our communities depends on getting and prosperity of our communities depends on getting this and prosperity of our communities depends on getting this right. depends on getting this right. Hon depends on getting this right. Hon Dr depends on getting this right. Hon Dr Duncan depends on getting this right. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. depends on getting this right. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank depends on getting this right. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you, depends on getting this right. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's quite Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's quite tricky Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's quite tricky to Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak on Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak on this Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak on this bill Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak on this bill and Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak on this bill and - Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak on this bill and - because Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak on this bill and - because there Speaker. It's quite tricky to speak on this bill and - because there are on this bill and - because there are few on this bill and - because there are few members on this bill and - because there are few members in on this bill and - because there are few members in this on this bill and - because there are few members in this House on this bill and - because there are few members in this House who on this bill and - because there are few members in this House who have few members in this House who have had few members in this House who have had firsthand few members in this House who have had firsthand experience few members in this House who have had firsthand experience of few members in this House who have had firsthand experience of an had firsthand experience of an earthquake, had firsthand experience of an earthquake, and had firsthand experience of an earthquake, and the had firsthand experience of an earthquake, and the alarming had firsthand experience of an earthquake, and the alarming thing earthquake, and the alarming thing is earthquake, and the alarming thing is that earthquake, and the alarming thing is that the earthquake, and the alarming thing is that the earthquake earthquake, and the alarming thing is that the earthquake that earthquake, and the alarming thing is that the earthquake that I is that the earthquake that I experienced is that the earthquake that I experienced and is that the earthquake that I experienced and some is that the earthquake that I experienced and some others is that the earthquake that I experienced and some others in is that the earthquake that I experienced and some others in this experienced and some others in this House experienced and some others in this House experienced experienced and some others in this House experienced was experienced and some others in this House experienced was a experienced and some others in this House experienced was a little experienced and some others in this House experienced was a little one. House experienced was a little one. And House experienced was a little one. And Andy House experienced was a little one. And Andy Foster House experienced was a little one. And Andy Foster mentioned House experienced was a little one. And Andy Foster mentioned that House experienced was a little one. And Andy Foster mentioned that he's And Andy Foster mentioned that he's been And Andy Foster mentioned that he's been in And Andy Foster mentioned that he's been in the And Andy Foster mentioned that he's been in the emergency And Andy Foster mentioned that he's been in the emergency management been in the emergency management bunker been in the emergency management bunker and been in the emergency management bunker and seen been in the emergency management bunker and seen the been in the emergency management bunker and seen the projections, been in the emergency management bunker and seen the projections, it bunker and seen the projections, it doesn't bunker and seen the projections, it doesn't give bunker and seen the projections, it doesn't give enough bunker and seen the projections, it doesn't give enough emphasis bunker and seen the projections, it doesn't give enough emphasis to bunker and seen the projections, it doesn't give enough emphasis to the doesn't give enough emphasis to the devastation doesn't give enough emphasis to the devastation that doesn't give enough emphasis to the devastation that will doesn't give enough emphasis to the devastation that will hurt doesn't give enough emphasis to the devastation that will hurt New devastation that will hurt New Zealand devastation that will hurt New Zealand probably, devastation that will hurt New Zealand probably, you devastation that will hurt New Zealand probably, you know, devastation that will hurt New Zealand probably, you know, a devastation that will hurt New Zealand probably, you know, a real Zealand probably, you know, a real possibility Zealand probably, you know, a real possibility that Zealand probably, you know, a real possibility that it Zealand probably, you know, a real possibility that it will Zealand probably, you know, a real possibility that it will be Zealand probably, you know, a real possibility that it will be this possibility that it will be this city possibility that it will be this city and possibility that it will be this city and the possibility that it will be this city and the catastrophic possibility that it will be this city and the catastrophic damage city and the catastrophic damage that city and the catastrophic damage that will city and the catastrophic damage that will occur. city and the catastrophic damage that will occur. And city and the catastrophic damage that will occur. And Tracey city and the catastrophic damage that will occur. And Tracey McLellan that will occur. And Tracey McLellan mentioned that will occur. And Tracey McLellan mentioned we're that will occur. And Tracey McLellan mentioned we're all that will occur. And Tracey McLellan mentioned we're all biased that will occur. And Tracey McLellan mentioned we're all biased to that will occur. And Tracey McLellan mentioned we're all biased to kind mentioned we're all biased to kind of mentioned we're all biased to kind of project mentioned we're all biased to kind of project our mentioned we're all biased to kind of project our own mentioned we're all biased to kind of project our own experiences of project our own experiences historically of project our own experiences historically into of project our own experiences historically into the of project our own experiences historically into the future, of project our own experiences historically into the future, and, historically into the future, and, therefore, historically into the future, and, therefore, if historically into the future, and, therefore, if we historically into the future, and, therefore, if we have historically into the future, and, therefore, if we have lived historically into the future, and, therefore, if we have lived for historically into the future, and, therefore, if we have lived for 30 therefore, if we have lived for 30 or therefore, if we have lived for 30 or 60 therefore, if we have lived for 30 or 60 years, therefore, if we have lived for 30 or 60 years, and therefore, if we have lived for 30 or 60 years, and never therefore, if we have lived for 30 or 60 years, and never really therefore, if we have lived for 30 or 60 years, and never really seen therefore, if we have lived for 30 or 60 years, and never really seen a or 60 years, and never really seen a major or 60 years, and never really seen a major disaster, or 60 years, and never really seen a major disaster, we or 60 years, and never really seen a major disaster, we assume or 60 years, and never really seen a major disaster, we assume we or 60 years, and never really seen a major disaster, we assume we won't major disaster, we assume we won't see major disaster, we assume we won't see one major disaster, we assume we won't see one in major disaster, we assume we won't see one in the major disaster, we assume we won't see one in the rest major disaster, we assume we won't see one in the rest of major disaster, we assume we won't see one in the rest of our major disaster, we assume we won't see one in the rest of our lifetime. see one in the rest of our lifetime. We see one in the rest of our lifetime. We know see one in the rest of our lifetime. We know it's see one in the rest of our lifetime. We know it's coming. see one in the rest of our lifetime. We know it's coming. So see one in the rest of our lifetime. We know it's coming. So the see one in the rest of our lifetime. We know it's coming. So the question We know it's coming. So the question is We know it's coming. So the question is this: We know it's coming. So the question is this: How We know it's coming. So the question is this: How do We know it's coming. So the question is this: How do we We know it's coming. So the question is this: How do we strike We know it's coming. So the question is this: How do we strike the is this: How do we strike the balance is this: How do we strike the balance between is this: How do we strike the balance between life is this: How do we strike the balance between life and is this: How do we strike the balance between life and prosperity? balance between life and prosperity? I balance between life and prosperity? I heard balance between life and prosperity? I heard the balance between life and prosperity? I heard the member balance between life and prosperity? I heard the member before balance between life and prosperity? I heard the member before me balance between life and prosperity? I heard the member before me talk I heard the member before me talk about, I heard the member before me talk about, you I heard the member before me talk about, you know, I heard the member before me talk about, you know, the I heard the member before me talk about, you know, the need I heard the member before me talk about, you know, the need to I heard the member before me talk about, you know, the need to fill I heard the member before me talk about, you know, the need to fill up about, you know, the need to fill up vacant about, you know, the need to fill up vacant buildings about, you know, the need to fill up vacant buildings and about, you know, the need to fill up vacant buildings and have about, you know, the need to fill up vacant buildings and have bustling vacant buildings and have bustling inner vacant buildings and have bustling inner cities. vacant buildings and have bustling inner cities. It's vacant buildings and have bustling inner cities. It's all vacant buildings and have bustling inner cities. It's all very vacant buildings and have bustling inner cities. It's all very nice, inner cities. It's all very nice, but inner cities. It's all very nice, but when inner cities. It's all very nice, but when this inner cities. It's all very nice, but when this earthquake inner cities. It's all very nice, but when this earthquake strikes, inner cities. It's all very nice, but when this earthquake strikes, if but when this earthquake strikes, if a but when this earthquake strikes, if a building but when this earthquake strikes, if a building is but when this earthquake strikes, if a building is earthquake-prone, but when this earthquake strikes, if a building is earthquake-prone, and a building is earthquake-prone, and we a building is earthquake-prone, and we have a building is earthquake-prone, and we have a a building is earthquake-prone, and we have a genuine a building is earthquake-prone, and we have a genuine earthquake, a building is earthquake-prone, and we have a genuine earthquake, a we have a genuine earthquake, a serious we have a genuine earthquake, a serious earthquake, we have a genuine earthquake, a serious earthquake, then we have a genuine earthquake, a serious earthquake, then some we have a genuine earthquake, a serious earthquake, then some of serious earthquake, then some of those serious earthquake, then some of those buildings serious earthquake, then some of those buildings will serious earthquake, then some of those buildings will fall serious earthquake, then some of those buildings will fall over. those buildings will fall over. People those buildings will fall over. People will those buildings will fall over. People will die. those buildings will fall over. People will die. And those buildings will fall over. People will die. And I those buildings will fall over. People will die. And I know those buildings will fall over. People will die. And I know - those buildings will fall over. People will die. And I know - you People will die. And I know - you know, People will die. And I know - you know, have People will die. And I know - you know, have spoken People will die. And I know - you know, have spoken to People will die. And I know - you know, have spoken to people People will die. And I know - you know, have spoken to people who People will die. And I know - you know, have spoken to people who talk know, have spoken to people who talk of know, have spoken to people who talk of the know, have spoken to people who talk of the financial know, have spoken to people who talk of the financial pressures, know, have spoken to people who talk of the financial pressures, the of the financial pressures, the stress, of the financial pressures, the stress, the of the financial pressures, the stress, the anxiety, of the financial pressures, the stress, the anxiety, the of the financial pressures, the stress, the anxiety, the constraints stress, the anxiety, the constraints on stress, the anxiety, the constraints on their stress, the anxiety, the constraints on their lifestyle stress, the anxiety, the constraints on their lifestyle that stress, the anxiety, the constraints on their lifestyle that earthquakes on their lifestyle that earthquakes strengthening on their lifestyle that earthquakes strengthening causes, on their lifestyle that earthquakes strengthening causes, but on their lifestyle that earthquakes strengthening causes, but if on their lifestyle that earthquakes strengthening causes, but if we strengthening causes, but if we leave strengthening causes, but if we leave people strengthening causes, but if we leave people to strengthening causes, but if we leave people to entirely strengthening causes, but if we leave people to entirely make strengthening causes, but if we leave people to entirely make their leave people to entirely make their own leave people to entirely make their own decisions leave people to entirely make their own decisions about leave people to entirely make their own decisions about the leave people to entirely make their own decisions about the safety leave people to entirely make their own decisions about the safety of own decisions about the safety of buildings, own decisions about the safety of buildings, there own decisions about the safety of buildings, there is own decisions about the safety of buildings, there is never own decisions about the safety of buildings, there is never a own decisions about the safety of buildings, there is never a good buildings, there is never a good time. buildings, there is never a good time. So buildings, there is never a good time. So we're buildings, there is never a good time. So we're not buildings, there is never a good time. So we're not going buildings, there is never a good time. So we're not going to buildings, there is never a good time. So we're not going to be time. So we're not going to be instructive time. So we're not going to be instructive in time. So we're not going to be instructive in this time. So we're not going to be instructive in this bill, time. So we're not going to be instructive in this bill, we're instructive in this bill, we're going instructive in this bill, we're going to instructive in this bill, we're going to be instructive in this bill, we're going to be constructive instructive in this bill, we're going to be constructive when instructive in this bill, we're going to be constructive when it going to be constructive when it comes going to be constructive when it comes time going to be constructive when it comes time to going to be constructive when it comes time to lock going to be constructive when it comes time to lock at going to be constructive when it comes time to lock at it going to be constructive when it comes time to lock at it in going to be constructive when it comes time to lock at it in the comes time to lock at it in the select comes time to lock at it in the select committee, comes time to lock at it in the select committee, but comes time to lock at it in the select committee, but we comes time to lock at it in the select committee, but we can't select committee, but we can't accept select committee, but we can't accept when select committee, but we can't accept when we select committee, but we can't accept when we live select committee, but we can't accept when we live where select committee, but we can't accept when we live where we select committee, but we can't accept when we live where we do select committee, but we can't accept when we live where we do and accept when we live where we do and we accept when we live where we do and we have accept when we live where we do and we have the accept when we live where we do and we have the science accept when we live where we do and we have the science we accept when we live where we do and we have the science we have accept when we live where we do and we have the science we have before we have the science we have before us, we have the science we have before us, and we have the science we have before us, and we we have the science we have before us, and we know we have the science we have before us, and we know the we have the science we have before us, and we know the quality we have the science we have before us, and we know the quality of we have the science we have before us, and we know the quality of the us, and we know the quality of the building us, and we know the quality of the building stock, us, and we know the quality of the building stock, that us, and we know the quality of the building stock, that it's us, and we know the quality of the building stock, that it's a us, and we know the quality of the building stock, that it's a good building stock, that it's a good idea building stock, that it's a good idea to building stock, that it's a good idea to defer building stock, that it's a good idea to defer remediation building stock, that it's a good idea to defer remediation of building stock, that it's a good idea to defer remediation of these idea to defer remediation of these buildings. idea to defer remediation of these buildings. We idea to defer remediation of these buildings. We agree idea to defer remediation of these buildings. We agree that idea to defer remediation of these buildings. We agree that a idea to defer remediation of these buildings. We agree that a review idea to defer remediation of these buildings. We agree that a review of buildings. We agree that a review of the buildings. We agree that a review of the relevant buildings. We agree that a review of the relevant earthquake buildings. We agree that a review of the relevant earthquake regulations the relevant earthquake regulations and the relevant earthquake regulations and building the relevant earthquake regulations and building codes the relevant earthquake regulations and building codes is the relevant earthquake regulations and building codes is a the relevant earthquake regulations and building codes is a good the relevant earthquake regulations and building codes is a good thing. and building codes is a good thing. I and building codes is a good thing. I absolutely and building codes is a good thing. I absolutely endorse and building codes is a good thing. I absolutely endorse that. and building codes is a good thing. I absolutely endorse that. And I absolutely endorse that. And somewhat I absolutely endorse that. And somewhat binary I absolutely endorse that. And somewhat binary nature I absolutely endorse that. And somewhat binary nature of I absolutely endorse that. And somewhat binary nature of these somewhat binary nature of these questions, somewhat binary nature of these questions, it's somewhat binary nature of these questions, it's either somewhat binary nature of these questions, it's either a somewhat binary nature of these questions, it's either a dangerous questions, it's either a dangerous building questions, it's either a dangerous building or questions, it's either a dangerous building or it's questions, it's either a dangerous building or it's not. questions, it's either a dangerous building or it's not. Maybe questions, it's either a dangerous building or it's not. Maybe that questions, it's either a dangerous building or it's not. Maybe that we building or it's not. Maybe that we do building or it's not. Maybe that we do need building or it's not. Maybe that we do need to building or it's not. Maybe that we do need to look building or it's not. Maybe that we do need to look at building or it's not. Maybe that we do need to look at that, building or it's not. Maybe that we do need to look at that, but building or it's not. Maybe that we do need to look at that, but if building or it's not. Maybe that we do need to look at that, but if we do need to look at that, but if we sit do need to look at that, but if we sit on do need to look at that, but if we sit on our do need to look at that, but if we sit on our hands, do need to look at that, but if we sit on our hands, we do need to look at that, but if we sit on our hands, we have do need to look at that, but if we sit on our hands, we have been do need to look at that, but if we sit on our hands, we have been - do need to look at that, but if we sit on our hands, we have been - we sit on our hands, we have been - we sit on our hands, we have been - we sit on our hands, we have been - we have been sit on our hands, we have been - we have been here sit on our hands, we have been - we have been here - sit on our hands, we have been - we have been here - Christchurch have been here - Christchurch earthquake have been here - Christchurch earthquake was have been here - Christchurch earthquake was more have been here - Christchurch earthquake was more than have been here - Christchurch earthquake was more than a have been here - Christchurch earthquake was more than a decade earthquake was more than a decade ago. earthquake was more than a decade ago. We earthquake was more than a decade ago. We know earthquake was more than a decade ago. We know the earthquake was more than a decade ago. We know the problem. earthquake was more than a decade ago. We know the problem. We earthquake was more than a decade ago. We know the problem. We have ago. We know the problem. We have been ago. We know the problem. We have been nudging ago. We know the problem. We have been nudging people ago. We know the problem. We have been nudging people to ago. We know the problem. We have been nudging people to do ago. We know the problem. We have been nudging people to do the ago. We know the problem. We have been nudging people to do the right been nudging people to do the right thing been nudging people to do the right thing and been nudging people to do the right thing and the been nudging people to do the right thing and the Minister been nudging people to do the right thing and the Minister himself, been nudging people to do the right thing and the Minister himself, and thing and the Minister himself, and I thing and the Minister himself, and I have thing and the Minister himself, and I have a thing and the Minister himself, and I have a lot thing and the Minister himself, and I have a lot of thing and the Minister himself, and I have a lot of respect thing and the Minister himself, and I have a lot of respect of thing and the Minister himself, and I have a lot of respect of work thing and the Minister himself, and I have a lot of respect of work that I have a lot of respect of work that he's I have a lot of respect of work that he's doing, I have a lot of respect of work that he's doing, the I have a lot of respect of work that he's doing, the Minister I have a lot of respect of work that he's doing, the Minister said he's doing, the Minister said himself he's doing, the Minister said himself we he's doing, the Minister said himself we encourage he's doing, the Minister said himself we encourage people he's doing, the Minister said himself we encourage people to he's doing, the Minister said himself we encourage people to do himself we encourage people to do this himself we encourage people to do this remediation himself we encourage people to do this remediation work, himself we encourage people to do this remediation work, but himself we encourage people to do this remediation work, but on himself we encourage people to do this remediation work, but on this this remediation work, but on this side this remediation work, but on this side of this remediation work, but on this side of the this remediation work, but on this side of the House, this remediation work, but on this side of the House, our this remediation work, but on this side of the House, our view this remediation work, but on this side of the House, our view is this remediation work, but on this side of the House, our view is that side of the House, our view is that we side of the House, our view is that we can't side of the House, our view is that we can't just side of the House, our view is that we can't just encourage, side of the House, our view is that we can't just encourage, we side of the House, our view is that we can't just encourage, we got side of the House, our view is that we can't just encourage, we got to we can't just encourage, we got to compel. we can't just encourage, we got to compel. We we can't just encourage, we got to compel. We might we can't just encourage, we got to compel. We might want we can't just encourage, we got to compel. We might want to we can't just encourage, we got to compel. We might want to assist we can't just encourage, we got to compel. We might want to assist as compel. We might want to assist as well... well... <BELL RUNG> <BELL RUNG> ... <BELL RUNG> ... ... <BELL RUNG> ... ... And <BELL RUNG> ... ... And that's <BELL RUNG> ... ... And that's certainly <BELL RUNG> ... ... And that's certainly the ... ... And that's certainly the approach ... ... And that's certainly the approach the ... ... And that's certainly the approach the Labour ... ... And that's certainly the approach the Labour Party ... ... And that's certainly the approach the Labour Party put ... ... And that's certainly the approach the Labour Party put in approach the Labour Party put in place approach the Labour Party put in place with approach the Labour Party put in place with financial approach the Labour Party put in place with financial assistance, approach the Labour Party put in place with financial assistance, but place with financial assistance, but this place with financial assistance, but this is place with financial assistance, but this is a place with financial assistance, but this is a really place with financial assistance, but this is a really serious place with financial assistance, but this is a really serious question this is a really serious question for this is a really serious question for this this is a really serious question for this House this is a really serious question for this House - this is a really serious question for this House - where this is a really serious question for this House - where are this is a really serious question for this House - where are you this is a really serious question for this House - where are you going for this House - where are you going to for this House - where are you going to strike for this House - where are you going to strike the for this House - where are you going to strike the balance for this House - where are you going to strike the balance between for this House - where are you going to strike the balance between risk to strike the balance between risk to to strike the balance between risk to life to strike the balance between risk to life and to strike the balance between risk to life and prosperity? to strike the balance between risk to life and prosperity? And to strike the balance between risk to life and prosperity? And let's to life and prosperity? And let's not to life and prosperity? And let's not - to life and prosperity? And let's not - let's to life and prosperity? And let's not - let's not to life and prosperity? And let's not - let's not fall to life and prosperity? And let's not - let's not fall into to life and prosperity? And let's not - let's not fall into the to life and prosperity? And let's not - let's not fall into the trap not - let's not fall into the trap of not - let's not fall into the trap of thinking, not - let's not fall into the trap of thinking, "It not - let's not fall into the trap of thinking, "It probably not - let's not fall into the trap of thinking, "It probably won't of thinking, "It probably won't happen", of thinking, "It probably won't happen", because of thinking, "It probably won't happen", because when of thinking, "It probably won't happen", because when it of thinking, "It probably won't happen", because when it does happen", because when it does happen, happen", because when it does happen, it happen", because when it does happen, it will happen", because when it does happen, it will be happen", because when it does happen, it will be catastrophic. happen", because when it does happen, it will be catastrophic. It happen, it will be catastrophic. It will happen, it will be catastrophic. It will be happen, it will be catastrophic. It will be beyond happen, it will be catastrophic. It will be beyond anything happen, it will be catastrophic. It will be beyond anything we happen, it will be catastrophic. It will be beyond anything we could will be beyond anything we could imagine. will be beyond anything we could imagine. So will be beyond anything we could imagine. So let's will be beyond anything we could imagine. So let's take will be beyond anything we could imagine. So let's take advice will be beyond anything we could imagine. So let's take advice from imagine. So let's take advice from our imagine. So let's take advice from our scientists, imagine. So let's take advice from our scientists, seismologists, our scientists, seismologists, engineers, our scientists, seismologists, engineers, but our scientists, seismologists, engineers, but most our scientists, seismologists, engineers, but most of our scientists, seismologists, engineers, but most of all, our scientists, seismologists, engineers, but most of all, let's engineers, but most of all, let's get engineers, but most of all, let's our engineers, but most of all, let's get on and engineers, but most of all, let's get on and make engineers, but most of all, let's get on and make our engineers, but most of all, let's get on and make our buildings engineers, but most of all, let's get on and make our buildings safe. get on and make our buildings safe. Kia get on and make our buildings safe. Kia ora. get on and make our buildings safe. Kia ora. Cameron get on and make our buildings safe. Kia ora. Cameron Brewer. get on and make our buildings safe. Kia ora. Cameron Brewer. Madam Kia ora. Cameron Brewer. Madam Speaker, Kia ora. Cameron Brewer. Madam Speaker, gives Kia ora. Cameron Brewer. Madam Speaker, gives me Kia ora. Cameron Brewer. Madam Speaker, gives me great Kia ora. Cameron Brewer. Madam Speaker, gives me great pleasure Kia ora. Cameron Brewer. Madam Speaker, gives me great pleasure to Speaker, gives me great pleasure to rise Speaker, gives me great pleasure to rise for Speaker, gives me great pleasure to rise for the Speaker, gives me great pleasure to rise for the first Speaker, gives me great pleasure to rise for the first reading Speaker, gives me great pleasure to rise for the first reading of Speaker, gives me great pleasure to rise for the first reading of this rise for the first reading of this bill rise for the first reading of this bill and rise for the first reading of this bill and as rise for the first reading of this bill and as others rise for the first reading of this bill and as others have rise for the first reading of this bill and as others have said, rise for the first reading of this bill and as others have said, its bill and as others have said, its key bill and as others have said, its key purpose bill and as others have said, its key purpose is bill and as others have said, its key purpose is to bill and as others have said, its key purpose is to extend bill and as others have said, its key purpose is to extend the key purpose is to extend the remediation key purpose is to extend the remediation time key purpose is to extend the remediation time frames key purpose is to extend the remediation time frames for remediation time frames for earthquake-prone remediation time frames for earthquake-prone buildings remediation time frames for earthquake-prone buildings by remediation time frames for earthquake-prone buildings by four earthquake-prone buildings by four years, earthquake-prone buildings by four years, and earthquake-prone buildings by four years, and it's earthquake-prone buildings by four years, and it's an earthquake-prone buildings by four years, and it's an extension earthquake-prone buildings by four years, and it's an extension that years, and it's an extension that will years, and it's an extension that will provide years, and it's an extension that will provide clarity years, and it's an extension that will provide clarity and years, and it's an extension that will provide clarity and certainty will provide clarity and certainty both will provide clarity and certainty both for will provide clarity and certainty both for building will provide clarity and certainty both for building owners will provide clarity and certainty both for building owners and both for building owners and territorial both for building owners and territorial authorities both for building owners and territorial authorities as both for building owners and territorial authorities as well both for building owners and territorial authorities as well as territorial authorities as well as the territorial authorities as well as the Minister territorial authorities as well as the Minister announced territorial authorities as well as the Minister announced recently territorial authorities as well as the Minister announced recently that the Minister announced recently that the the Minister announced recently that the review the Minister announced recently that the review of the Minister announced recently that the review of the the Minister announced recently that the review of the management the Minister announced recently that the review of the management of the review of the management of seismic the review of the management of seismic risk the review of the management of seismic risk in the review of the management of seismic risk in existing the review of the management of seismic risk in existing buildings seismic risk in existing buildings and seismic risk in existing buildings and subsequently seismic risk in existing buildings and subsequently any seismic risk in existing buildings and subsequently any legislative and subsequently any legislative amendments and subsequently any legislative amendments has and subsequently any legislative amendments has been and subsequently any legislative amendments has been brought and subsequently any legislative amendments has been brought forward amendments has been brought forward from amendments has been brought forward from 2027. amendments has been brought forward from 2027. So amendments has been brought forward from 2027. So I amendments has been brought forward from 2027. So I want amendments has been brought forward from 2027. So I want to amendments has been brought forward from 2027. So I want to acknowledge from 2027. So I want to acknowledge that. from 2027. So I want to acknowledge that. We from 2027. So I want to acknowledge that. We have from 2027. So I want to acknowledge that. We have got from 2027. So I want to acknowledge that. We have got to from 2027. So I want to acknowledge that. We have got to strike from 2027. So I want to acknowledge that. We have got to strike a that. We have got to strike a balance, that. We have got to strike a that. that. We have got to strike a balance, Madam Speaker, that. We have got to strike a balance, Madam Speaker, and that. We have got to strike a balance, Madam Speaker, and that's balance, Madam Speaker, and that's what balance, Madam Speaker, and that's what this balance, Madam Speaker, and that's what this Government balance, Madam Speaker, and that's what this Government is balance, Madam Speaker, and that's what this Government is committed balance, Madam Speaker, and that's what this Government is committed to what this Government is committed to with what this Government is committed to with both what this Government is committed to with both this what this Government is committed to with both this bill what this Government is committed to with both this bill and what this Government is committed to with both this bill and with what this Government is committed to with both this bill and with the with both this bill and with the review. with both this bill and with the review. If with both this bill and with the review. If we with both this bill and with the review. If we don't, with both this bill and with the review. If we don't, if with both this bill and with the review. If we don't, if we with both this bill and with the review. If we don't, if we don't review. If we don't, if we don't strike review. If we don't, if we don't strike that review. If we don't, if we don't strike that balance, review. If we don't, if we don't strike that balance, we review. If we don't, if we don't strike that balance, we will review. If we don't, if we don't strike that balance, we will only strike that balance, we will only see strike that balance, we will only see more strike that balance, we will only see more earthquake-prone strike that balance, we will only see more earthquake-prone buildings see more earthquake-prone buildings rot see more earthquake-prone buildings rot in see more earthquake-prone buildings rot in our see more earthquake-prone buildings rot in our rural see more earthquake-prone buildings rot in our rural towns see more earthquake-prone buildings rot in our rural towns and see more earthquake-prone buildings rot in our rural towns and our see more earthquake-prone buildings rot in our rural towns and our sit rot in our rural towns and our sit centres rot in our rural towns and our sit centres across rot in our rural towns and our sit centres across the rot in our rural towns and our sit centres across the country. rot in our rural towns and our sit centres across the country. If rot in our rural towns and our sit centres across the country. If you centres across the country. If you centres across the country. If you centres across the country. If you want to centres across the country. If you want to know centres across the country. If you want to know what centres across the country. If you want to know what looks centres across the country. If you want to know what looks like, centres across the country. If you want to know what looks like, Madam want to know what looks like, Madam Speaker, want to know what looks like, Madam Speaker, I want to know what looks like, Madam Speaker, I invite want to know what looks like, Madam Speaker, I invite you want to know what looks like, Madam Speaker, I invite you to want to know what looks like, Madam Speaker, I invite you to check want to know what looks like, Madam Speaker, I invite you to check out Speaker, I invite you to check out the Speaker, I invite you to check out the old Speaker, I invite you to check out the old Molly Speaker, I invite you to check out the old Molly Malone's Speaker, I invite you to check out the old Molly Malone's buildings Speaker, I invite you to check out the old Molly Malone's buildings on the old Molly Malone's buildings on the the old Molly Malone's buildings on the corner the old Molly Malone's buildings on the corner of the old Molly Malone's buildings on the corner of Courtney the old Molly Malone's buildings on the corner of Courtney place the old Molly Malone's buildings on the corner of Courtney place and the corner of Courtney place and Taranaki the corner of Courtney place and Speaker, the corner of Courtney place and Taranaki Street in the corner of Courtney place and Taranaki Street in central Taranaki Street in central Wellington. Taranaki Street in central Wellington. It's Taranaki Street in central Wellington. It's been Taranaki Street in central Wellington. It's been abandoned, Wellington. It's been abandoned, it's Wellington. It's been abandoned, it's been Wellington. It's been abandoned, it's been deteriorating, Wellington. It's been abandoned, it's been deteriorating, and Wellington. It's been abandoned, it's been deteriorating, and it's it's been deteriorating, and it's almost it's been deteriorating, and it's almost unsellable it's been deteriorating, and it's almost unsellable and it's been deteriorating, and it's almost unsellable and it's it's been deteriorating, and it's almost unsellable and it's been it's been deteriorating, and it's almost unsellable and it's been in almost unsellable and it's been in that almost unsellable and it's been in that situation almost unsellable and it's been in that situation for almost unsellable and it's been in that situation for 10 almost unsellable and it's been in that situation for 10 years. almost unsellable and it's been in that situation for 10 years. Another that situation for 10 years. Another well-known that situation for 10 years. Another well-known Wellington that situation for 10 years. Another well-known Wellington building that situation for 10 years. Another well-known Wellington building that well-known Wellington building that I well-known Wellington building that I want well-known Wellington building that I want to well-known Wellington building that I want to point well-known Wellington building that I want to point to well-known Wellington building that I want to point to is well-known Wellington building that I want to point to is the well-known Wellington building that I want to point to is the former I want to point to is the former Press I want to point to is the former Press Gallery, I want to point to is the former Press Gallery, annexed I want to point to is the former Press Gallery, annexed at I want to point to is the former Press Gallery, annexed at the I want to point to is the former Press Gallery, annexed at the back Press Gallery, annexed at the back of Press Gallery, annexed at the back of the Press Gallery, annexed at the back of the Bee Press Gallery, annexed at the back of the Bee Hive, Press Gallery, annexed at the back of the Bee Hive, earthquake-prone, of the Bee Hive, earthquake-prone, but of the Bee Hive, earthquake-prone, but having of the Bee Hive, earthquake-prone, but having architectural of the Bee Hive, earthquake-prone, but having architectural merit but having architectural merit according but having architectural merit according to but having architectural merit according to Heritage but having architectural merit according to Heritage NZ. but having architectural merit according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. And according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. And so according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. And so it's according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. And so it's too according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. And so it's too hard according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. And so it's too hard on according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. And so it's too hard on the according to Heritage NZ. Brutalism. And so it's too hard on the first And so it's too hard on the first blush, And so it's too hard on the first blush, it's And so it's too hard on the first blush, it's too And so it's too hard on the first blush, it's too hard And so it's too hard on the first blush, it's too hard for And so it's too hard on the first blush, it's too hard for - And so it's too hard on the first blush, it's too hard for - to blush, it's too hard for - to remodel blush, it's too hard for - to remodel for blush, it's too hard for - to remodel for ministerial blush, it's too hard for - to remodel for ministerial offices blush, it's too hard for - to remodel for ministerial offices and remodel for ministerial offices and so remodel for ministerial offices and so subsequently, remodel for ministerial offices and so subsequently, Madam remodel for ministerial offices and so subsequently, Madam Speaker, remodel for ministerial offices and so subsequently, Madam Speaker, it so subsequently, Madam Speaker, it remains so subsequently, Madam Speaker, it remains empty so subsequently, Madam Speaker, it remains empty right so subsequently, Madam Speaker, it remains empty right here so subsequently, Madam Speaker, it remains empty right here in so subsequently, Madam Speaker, it remains empty right here in the remains empty right here in the Parliamentary remains empty right here in the Parliamentary precinct remains empty right here in the Parliamentary precinct and remains empty right here in the Parliamentary precinct and we remains empty right here in the Parliamentary precinct and we want Parliamentary precinct and we want to Parliamentary precinct and we want to see Parliamentary precinct and we want to see less Parliamentary precinct and we want to see less examples Parliamentary precinct and we want to see less examples of Parliamentary precinct and we want to see less examples of empty to see less examples of empty buildings to see less examples of empty buildings than to see less examples of empty buildings than more, to see less examples of empty buildings than more, and to see less examples of empty buildings than more, and hence to see less examples of empty buildings than more, and hence why buildings than more, and hence why the buildings than more, and hence why the Minister buildings than more, and hence why the Minister is buildings than more, and hence why the Minister is acting buildings than more, and hence why the Minister is acting with buildings than more, and hence why the Minister is acting with some the Minister is acting with some haste, the Minister is acting with some haste, but the Minister is acting with some haste, but with the Minister is acting with some haste, but with a the Minister is acting with some haste, but with a lot the Minister is acting with some haste, but with a lot of haste, but with a lot of consultation haste, but with a lot of consultation and haste, but with a lot of consultation and with haste, but with a lot of consultation and with his haste, but with a lot of consultation and with his expansive consultation and with his expansive review. consultation and with his expansive review. In consultation and with his expansive review. In Auckland, consultation and with his expansive review. In Auckland, interestingly review. In Auckland, interestingly enough, review. In Auckland, interestingly enough, more review. In Auckland, interestingly enough, more than review. In Auckland, interestingly enough, more than 1,700 review. In Auckland, interestingly enough, more than 1,700 buildings enough, more than 1,700 buildings are enough, more than 1,700 buildings are registered enough, more than 1,700 buildings are registered as enough, more than 1,700 buildings are registered as being are registered as being earthquake-prone are registered as being earthquake-prone which are registered as being earthquake-prone which is are registered as being earthquake-prone which is a are registered as being earthquake-prone which is a big earthquake-prone which is a big proportion earthquake-prone which is a big proportion of earthquake-prone which is a big proportion of the earthquake-prone which is a big proportion of the over earthquake-prone which is a big proportion of the over 5,000 proportion of the over 5,000 earthquake-prone proportion of the over 5,000 earthquake-prone buildings earthquake-prone buildings nationwide. earthquake-prone buildings nationwide. And earthquake-prone buildings nationwide. And Aucklandcounter nationwide. And Aucklandcounter silt's nationwide. And Aucklandcounter silt's general nationwide. And Aucklandcounter silt's general manager nationwide. And Aucklandcounter silt's general manager of nationwide. And Aucklandcounter silt's general manager of building silt's general manager of building consents, silt's general manager of building consents, Iain silt's general manager of building consents, Iain McCormack, silt's general manager of building consents, Iain McCormack, he consents, Iain McCormack, he supports consents, Iain McCormack, he supports the consents, Iain McCormack, he supports the review consents, Iain McCormack, he supports the review - consents, Iain McCormack, he supports the review - we consents, Iain McCormack, he supports the review - we support consents, Iain McCormack, he supports the review - we support the supports the review - we support the review supports the review - we support the review to supports the review - we support the review to upgrade supports the review - we support the review to upgrade their supports the review - we support the review to upgrade their buildings supports the review - we support the review to upgrade their buildings is review to upgrade their buildings is proportionate review to upgrade their buildings is proportionate to review to upgrade their buildings is proportionate to Auckland's review to upgrade their buildings is proportionate to Auckland's seismic proportionate to Auckland's seismic risk." proportionate to Auckland's seismic risk." And proportionate to Auckland's seismic risk." And so proportionate to Auckland's seismic risk." And so nearly proportionate to Auckland's seismic risk." And so nearly 500 proportionate to Auckland's seismic risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines are risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines are set risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines are set to risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines are set to expire risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines are set to expire over risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines are set to expire over the risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines are set to expire over the next risk." And so nearly 500 deadlines are set to expire over the next four are set to expire over the next four years. are set to expire over the next four years. So are set to expire over the next four years. So this are set to expire over the next four years. So this gives are set to expire over the next four years. So this gives us are set to expire over the next four years. So this gives us time. are set to expire over the next four years. So this gives us time. And years. So this gives us time. And again years. So this gives us time. And again I years. So this gives us time. And again I want years. So this gives us time. And again I want to years. So this gives us time. And again I want to give years. So this gives us time. And again I want to give a years. So this gives us time. And again I want to give a lot years. So this gives us time. And again I want to give a lot of years. So this gives us time. And again I want to give a lot of credit again I want to give a lot of credit to again I want to give a lot of credit to the again I want to give a lot of credit to the Minister again I want to give a lot of credit to the Minister for again I want to give a lot of credit to the Minister for Building again I want to give a lot of credit to the Minister for Building and to the Minister for Building and Construction, to the Minister for Building and Construction, the to the Minister for Building and Construction, the Hon to the Minister for Building and Construction, the Hon Chris to the Minister for Building and Construction, the Hon Chris Penk, Construction, the Hon Chris Penk, for Construction, the Hon Chris Penk, for bringing Construction, the Hon Chris Penk, for bringing forward Construction, the Hon Chris Penk, for bringing forward the Construction, the Hon Chris Penk, for bringing forward the review Construction, the Hon Chris Penk, for bringing forward the review of for bringing forward the review of the for bringing forward the review of the earthquake-prone for bringing forward the review of the earthquake-prone building for bringing forward the review of the earthquake-prone building rules, the earthquake-prone building rules, and the earthquake-prone building rules, and extending the earthquake-prone building rules, and extending remediation the earthquake-prone building rules, and extending remediation for the earthquake-prone building rules, and extending remediation for four and extending remediation for four years. and extending remediation for four years. And and extending remediation for four years. And so and extending remediation for four years. And so this and extending remediation for four years. And so this is and extending remediation for four years. And so this is a and extending remediation for four years. And so this is a great and extending remediation for four years. And so this is a great day years. And so this is a great day and years. And so this is a great day and a years. And so this is a great day and a big years. And so this is a great day and a big sigh years. And so this is a great day and a big sigh of years. And so this is a great day and a big sigh of relief years. And so this is a great day and a big sigh of relief is years. And so this is a great day and a big sigh of relief is being and a big sigh of relief is being exhaled and a big sigh of relief is being exhaled by and a big sigh of relief is being exhaled by councils, and a big sigh of relief is being exhaled by councils, mayors, exhaled by councils, mayors, property exhaled by councils, mayors, property managers, exhaled by councils, mayors, property managers, property exhaled by councils, mayors, property managers, property owners property managers, property owners and property managers, property owners and business property managers, property owners and business associations property managers, property owners and business associations up property managers, property owners and business associations up and and business associations up and down and business associations up and down this and business associations up and down this country. and business associations up and down this country. We and business associations up and down this country. We are and business associations up and down this country. We are giving down this country. We are giving them down this country. We are giving them more down this country. We are giving them more time down this country. We are giving them more time and down this country. We are giving them more time and that's down this country. We are giving them more time and that's what down this country. We are giving them more time and that's what they them more time and that's what they have them more time and that's what they have asked them more time and that's what they have asked for them more time and that's what they have asked for and them more time and that's what they have asked for and as them more time and that's what they have asked for and as one them more time and that's what they have asked for and as one property have asked for and as one property manager have asked for and as one property manager said have asked for and as one property manager said in have asked for and as one property manager said in the have asked for and as one property manager said in the media have asked for and as one property manager said in the media just manager said in the media just recently manager said in the media just recently - manager said in the media just recently - an manager said in the media just recently - an extension manager said in the media just recently - an extension is manager said in the media just recently - an extension is a recently - an extension is a Godsend, recently - an extension is a Godsend, but recently - an extension is a Godsend, but also recently - an extension is a Godsend, but also let's recently - an extension is a Godsend, but also let's look recently - an extension is a Godsend, but also let's look at recently - an extension is a Godsend, but also let's look at this Godsend, but also let's look at this review Godsend, but also let's look at this review that Godsend, but also let's look at this review that will Godsend, but also let's look at this review that will - Godsend, but also let's look at this review that will - that's Godsend, but also let's look at this review that will - that's underway review that will - that's underway and review that will - that's underway and will review that will - that's underway and will be review that will - that's underway and will be completed review that will - that's underway and will be completed next review that will - that's underway and will be completed next year review that will - that's underway and will be completed next year - and will be completed next year - 2025. and will be completed next year - 2025. Again, and will be completed next year - 2025. Again, brought and will be completed next year - 2025. Again, brought forward and will be completed next year - 2025. Again, brought forward from 2025. Again, brought forward from 2027, 2025. Again, brought forward from 2027, it's 2025. Again, brought forward from 2027, it's a 2025. Again, brought forward from 2027, it's a wide-reaching 2025. Again, brought forward from 2027, it's a wide-reaching review. 2027, it's a wide-reaching review. <BELL RUNG> <BELL RUNG> There'll <BELL RUNG> There'll be <BELL RUNG> There'll be extensive <BELL RUNG> There'll be extensive consultation There'll be extensive consultation across There'll be extensive consultation across the There'll be extensive consultation across the property There'll be extensive consultation across the property sector, There'll be extensive consultation across the property sector, across across the property sector, across local across the property sector, across local government, across the property sector, across local government, which across the property sector, across local government, which will across the property sector, across local government, which will result local government, which will result in local government, which will result in legislative local government, which will result in legislative changes. local government, which will result in legislative changes. It local government, which will result in legislative changes. It will in legislative changes. It will result in legislative changes. It will result in in legislative changes. It will result in legislative in legislative changes. It will result in legislative changes, in legislative changes. It will result in legislative changes, but result in legislative changes, but then result in legislative changes, but then they result in legislative changes, but then they will result in legislative changes, but then they will go result in legislative changes, but then they will go through, result in legislative changes, but then they will go through, you result in legislative changes, but then they will go through, you know, then they will go through, you know, an then they will go through, you know, an exhaustive then they will go through, you know, an exhaustive select then they will go through, you know, an exhaustive select committee an exhaustive select committee process an exhaustive select committee process and an exhaustive select committee process and then an exhaustive select committee process and then being an exhaustive select committee process and then being reported an exhaustive select committee process and then being reported back process and then being reported back to process and then being reported back to this process and then being reported back to this House process and then being reported back to this House for process and then being reported back to this House for debate, process and then being reported back to this House for debate, for to this House for debate, for further to this House for debate, for further consideration, to this House for debate, for further consideration, and further consideration, and ultimately further consideration, and ultimately for further consideration, and ultimately for ratification. further consideration, and ultimately for ratification. And further consideration, and ultimately for ratification. And so ultimately for ratification. And so for ultimately for ratification. And so for Auckland, ultimately for ratification. And so for Auckland, maddiac ultimately for ratification. And so for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, ultimately for ratification. And so for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, where for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, where -- for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, where -- Madam for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, where -- Madam Speaker, for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, where -- Madam Speaker, where for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, where -- Madam Speaker, where the for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, where -- Madam Speaker, where the mayor for Auckland, maddiac Speaker, where -- Madam Speaker, where the mayor of -- Madam Speaker, where the mayor of Auckland -- Madam Speaker, where the mayor of Auckland has -- Madam Speaker, where the mayor of Auckland has said -- Madam Speaker, where the mayor of Auckland has said that -- Madam Speaker, where the mayor of Auckland has said that there's -- Madam Speaker, where the mayor of Auckland has said that there's no Auckland has said that there's no sign Auckland has said that there's no sign of Auckland has said that there's no sign of Auckland Auckland has said that there's no sign of Auckland activity Auckland has said that there's no sign of Auckland activity for sign of Auckland activity for 100,000 sign of Auckland activity for 100,000 years, sign of Auckland activity for 100,000 years, we sign of Auckland activity for 100,000 years, we know sign of Auckland activity for 100,000 years, we know the sign of Auckland activity for 100,000 years, we know the mayor sign of Auckland activity for 100,000 years, we know the mayor of 100,000 years, we know the mayor of Auckland 100,000 years, we know the mayor of Auckland sometimes 100,000 years, we know the mayor of Auckland sometimes exaggerates 100,000 years, we know the mayor of Auckland sometimes exaggerates and Auckland sometimes exaggerates and has Auckland sometimes exaggerates and has a Auckland sometimes exaggerates and has a turn Auckland sometimes exaggerates and has a turn of Auckland sometimes exaggerates and has a turn of phrase, Auckland sometimes exaggerates and has a turn of phrase, but Auckland sometimes exaggerates and has a turn of phrase, but for has a turn of phrase, but for Auckland has a turn of phrase, but for Auckland it has a turn of phrase, but for Auckland it makes has a turn of phrase, but for Auckland it makes sense has a turn of phrase, but for Auckland it makes sense where has a turn of phrase, but for Auckland it makes sense where a Auckland it makes sense where a low-risk Auckland it makes sense where a low-risk area, Auckland it makes sense where a low-risk area, we Auckland it makes sense where a low-risk area, we need Auckland it makes sense where a low-risk area, we need more Auckland it makes sense where a low-risk area, we need more time, low-risk area, we need more time, and low-risk area, we need more time, and our low-risk area, we need more time, and our response low-risk area, we need more time, and our response needs low-risk area, we need more time, and our response needs to low-risk area, we need more time, and our response needs to be and our response needs to be proportionate. and our response needs to be proportionate. So and our response needs to be proportionate. So I and our response needs to be proportionate. So I commend and our response needs to be proportionate. So I commend this proportionate. So I commend this first proportionate. So I commend this first reading proportionate. So I commend this first reading to proportionate. So I commend this first reading to the proportionate. So I commend this first reading to the House. proportionate. So I commend this first reading to the House. The first reading to the House. The question first reading to the House. The question is first reading to the House. The question is that first reading to the House. The question is that the first reading to the House. The question is that the motion first reading to the House. The question is that the motion be question is that the motion be agreed question is that the motion be agreed to. question is that the motion be agreed to. Those question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion agreed to. Those of that opinion will agreed to. Those of that opinion will say agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye. agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye. To agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye. To the agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary - agreed to. Those of that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary - No. will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The Ayes will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The Ayes have will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The Ayes have it. will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The Ayes have it. A will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The Ayes have it. A party will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The Ayes have it. A party vote will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The Ayes have it. A party vote has The Ayes have it. A party vote has been The Ayes have it. A party vote has been called The Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. The Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. Please, The Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. Please, Clerk, been called for. Please, Clerk, conduct been called for. Please, Clerk, conduct a been called for. Please, Clerk, conduct a party been called for. Please, Clerk, conduct a party vote. been called for. Please, Clerk, conduct a party vote. New been called for. Please, Clerk, conduct a party vote. New Zealand conduct a party vote. New Zealand national. conduct a party vote. New Zealand national. 39 conduct a party vote. New Zealand national. 39 votes conduct a party vote. New Zealand national. 39 votes in conduct a party vote. New Zealand national. 39 votes in favour. conduct a party vote. New Zealand national. 39 votes in favour. New national. 39 votes in favour. New Zealand national. 39 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour. national. 39 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour. 34 national. 39 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour. 34 votes national. 39 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour. 34 votes opposed. Zealand Labour. 34 votes opposed. Green Zealand Labour. 34 votes opposed. Green Party Zealand Labour. 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Zealand Labour. 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa Zealand Labour. 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand Labour. 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. 14 votes in Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. 14 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. 14 votes in favour. ACT Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. 14 votes in favour. ACT New Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand. 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand. 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand. 11 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand. 11 in 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand. 11 in favour. 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand. 11 in favour. New 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand. 11 in favour. New Zealand 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand. 11 in favour. New Zealand First. 11 in favour. New Zealand First. Eight 11 in favour. New Zealand First. Eight votes 11 in favour. New Zealand First. Eight votes in 11 in favour. New Zealand First. Eight votes in favour. 11 in favour. New Zealand First. Eight votes in favour. Te 11 in favour. New Zealand First. Eight votes in favour. Te Paati Eight votes in favour. Te Paati Maori. Maori. <SPEAKS Maori. <SPEAKS TE Maori. <SPEAKS TE REO Maori. <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> Interpreter <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> Interpreter six <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> Interpreter six votes <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> Interpreter six votes in <SPEAKS TE REO MAORI> Interpreter six votes in favour. Interpreter six votes in favour. Darleen Interpreter six votes in favour. Darleen Tana. Darleen Tana. INTERPRETER: Darleen Tana. INTERPRETER: One Darleen Tana. INTERPRETER: One in Darleen Tana. INTERPRETER: One in favour. I I think I think we I think we should I think we should wait... I think we should wait... It I think we should wait... It relates... I think we should wait... It relates... I I think we should wait... It relates... I seek I think we should wait... It relates... I seek leave I think we should wait... It relates... I seek leave to I think we should wait... It relates... I seek leave to because I think we should wait... It relates... I seek leave to because I relates... I seek leave to because I - relates... I seek leave to because I - I relates... I seek leave to because I - I voted relates... I seek leave to because I - I voted incorrectly. relates... I seek leave to because I - I voted incorrectly. Oh. relates... I seek leave to because I - I voted incorrectly. Oh. Oh. relates... I seek leave to because I - I voted incorrectly. Oh. Oh. Would - I voted incorrectly. Oh. Oh. Would like - I voted incorrectly. Oh. Oh. Would like the - I voted incorrectly. Oh. Oh. Would like the vote - I voted incorrectly. Oh. Oh. Would like the vote called - I voted incorrectly. Oh. Oh. Would like the vote called again. - I voted incorrectly. Oh. Oh. Would like the vote called again. Yes, like the vote called again. Yes, please. like the vote called again. Yes, please. Thank like the vote called again. Yes, please. Thank you. like the vote called again. Yes, please. Thank you. New like the vote called again. Yes, please. Thank you. New Zealand please. Thank you. New Zealand National. please. Thank you. New Zealand National. 49 please. Thank you. New Zealand National. 49 votes please. Thank you. New Zealand National. 49 votes in please. Thank you. New Zealand National. 49 votes in favour. The The Ayes The Ayes are The Ayes are 89. The Ayes are 89. The The Ayes are 89. The Noes The Ayes are 89. The Noes are The Ayes are 89. The Noes are 34. The Ayes are 89. The Noes are 34. The The Ayes are 89. The Noes are 34. The motion The Ayes are 89. The Noes are 34. The motion is The Ayes are 89. The Noes are 34. The motion is agreed. The Ayes are 89. The Noes are 34. The motion is agreed. Building The motion is agreed. Building (Earthquake-prone The motion is agreed. Building (Earthquake-prone Building The motion is agreed. Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. The and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. The question and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. The question is and Other Matters) Amendment Bill - first reading. The question is we first reading. The question is we have first reading. The question is we have just first reading. The question is we have just got first reading. The question is we have just got one first reading. The question is we have just got one more first reading. The question is we have just got one more motion, have just got one more motion, Minister, have just got one more motion, Minister, before have just got one more motion, Minister, before we have just got one more motion, Minister, before we get have just got one more motion, Minister, before we get to have just got one more motion, Minister, before we get to yours. Minister, before we get to yours. The Minister, before we get to yours. The question Minister, before we get to yours. The question is Minister, before we get to yours. The question is that Minister, before we get to yours. The question is that the Minister, before we get to yours. The question is that the Building The question is that the Building (Earthquake-prone The question is that the Building (Earthquake-prone Building The question is that the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be considered and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be considered by and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be considered by the and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be considered by the Transport and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be considered by the Transport and considered by the Transport and Infrastructure considered by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. considered by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. Those considered by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. Those of Infrastructure Committee. Those of that Infrastructure Committee. Those of that opinion Infrastructure Committee. Those of that opinion will Infrastructure Committee. Those of that opinion will say Infrastructure Committee. Those of that opinion will say Aye. Infrastructure Committee. Those of that opinion will say Aye. To Infrastructure Committee. Those of that opinion will say Aye. To the that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary - that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary - No. that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The motion that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The motion is that opinion will say Aye. To the contrary - No. The motion is agreed. contrary - No. The motion is agreed. Hon contrary - No. The motion is agreed. Hon Chris contrary - No. The motion is agreed. Hon Chris Penk. contrary - No. The motion is agreed. Hon Chris Penk. Thank contrary - No. The motion is agreed. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you contrary - No. The motion is agreed. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very contrary - No. The motion is agreed. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I move Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I move that Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I move that the Madam Speaker. I move that the Building Madam Speaker. I move that the Building (Earthquake-prone Madam Speaker. I move that the Building (Earthquake-prone Building Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Building (Earthquake-prone Building Deadlines and Other Matters) Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be reported Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be reported to Deadlines and Other Matters) Amendment Bill be reported to the Amendment Bill be reported to the House Amendment Bill be reported to the House by Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 31 Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 31 October Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 31 October 2024 Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 31 October 2024 and Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 31 October 2024 and this House by 31 October 2024 and this the House by 31 October 2024 and this the committee House by 31 October 2024 and this the committee have House by 31 October 2024 and this the committee have authority House by 31 October 2024 and this the committee have authority to House by 31 October 2024 and this the committee have authority to meet the committee have authority to meet at the committee have authority to meet at any the committee have authority to meet at any time the committee have authority to meet at any time while the committee have authority to meet at any time while the the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is at any time while the House is sitting at any time while the House is sitting except at any time while the House is sitting except during at any time while the House is sitting except during Oral sitting except during Oral Questions, sitting except during Oral Questions, during sitting except during Oral Questions, during any sitting except during Oral Questions, during any evening sitting except during Oral Questions, during any evening or sitting except during Oral Questions, during any evening or on Questions, during any evening or on a Questions, during any evening or on a day Questions, during any evening or on a day on Questions, during any evening or on a day on which Questions, during any evening or on a day on which there Questions, during any evening or on a day on which there has Questions, during any evening or on a day on which there has been Questions, during any evening or on a day on which there has been a a day on which there has been a sitting a day on which there has been a sitting of a day on which there has been a sitting of the a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, on a a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, on a Friday a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, on a Friday in sitting of the House, on a Friday in a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there has sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there has been sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there has been a a week in which there has been a sitting a week in which there has been a sitting of a week in which there has been a sitting of the a week in which there has been a sitting of the House a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside a week in which there has been a sitting of the House and outside the sitting of the House and outside the Wellington sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area despite sitting of the House and outside the Wellington area despite Standing Wellington area despite Standing Orders Wellington area despite Standing Orders 193, Wellington area despite Standing Orders 193, 195, Wellington area despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and Wellington area despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196. Wellington area despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Speaker, Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Speaker, I Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Speaker, I know Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Speaker, I know that Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Speaker, I know that this Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Speaker, I know that this is Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Speaker, I know that this is a Orders 193, 195, and 196. Madam Speaker, I know that this is a very Speaker, I know that this is a very tight Speaker, I know that this is a very tight debate Speaker, I know that this is a very tight debate in Speaker, I know that this is a very tight debate in terms Speaker, I know that this is a very tight debate in terms of Speaker, I know that this is a very tight debate in terms of the tight debate in terms of the Government's tight debate in terms of the Government's view tight debate in terms of the Government's view and tight debate in terms of the Government's view and is tight debate in terms of the Government's view and is supported Government's view and is supported by Government's view and is supported by some Government's view and is supported by some others Government's view and is supported by some others in Government's view and is supported by some others in the Government's view and is supported by some others in the House Government's view and is supported by some others in the House that by some others in the House that there by some others in the House that there be by some others in the House that there be a by some others in the House that there be a shortened by some others in the House that there be a shortened select there be a shortened select committee there be a shortened select committee time there be a shortened select committee time but there be a shortened select committee time but perhaps there be a shortened select committee time but perhaps you'll committee time but perhaps you'll indulge committee time but perhaps you'll indulge me committee time but perhaps you'll indulge me just committee time but perhaps you'll indulge me just acknowledge committee time but perhaps you'll indulge me just acknowledge the indulge me just acknowledge the thoughtful indulge me just acknowledge the thoughtful contributions indulge me just acknowledge the thoughtful contributions made indulge me just acknowledge the thoughtful contributions made by thoughtful contributions made by Parliamentary thoughtful contributions made by Parliamentary colleagues thoughtful contributions made by Parliamentary colleagues all thoughtful contributions made by Parliamentary colleagues all across Parliamentary colleagues all across the Parliamentary colleagues all across the House Parliamentary colleagues all across the House including Parliamentary colleagues all across the House including on Parliamentary colleagues all across the House including on both Parliamentary colleagues all across the House including on both sides Parliamentary colleagues all across the House including on both sides of the House including on both sides of the the House including on both sides of the argument the House including on both sides of the argument in the House including on both sides of the argument in relation the House including on both sides of the argument in relation to the House including on both sides of the argument in relation to the the argument in relation to the first the argument in relation to the first reading. the argument in relation to the first reading. I the argument in relation to the first reading. I think the argument in relation to the first reading. I think it's first reading. I think it's appropriate first reading. I think it's appropriate that first reading. I think it's appropriate that there's appropriate that there's constructive appropriate that there's constructive dialogue appropriate that there's constructive dialogue and appropriate that there's constructive dialogue and I appropriate that there's constructive dialogue and I thank constructive dialogue and I thank everyone constructive dialogue and I thank everyone for constructive dialogue and I thank everyone for exactly constructive dialogue and I thank everyone for exactly that. constructive dialogue and I thank everyone for exactly that. I constructive dialogue and I thank everyone for exactly that. I do constructive dialogue and I thank everyone for exactly that. I do wish everyone for exactly that. I do wish to everyone for exactly that. I do wish to point everyone for exactly that. I do wish to point out, everyone for exactly that. I do wish to point out, in everyone for exactly that. I do wish to point out, in relation everyone for exactly that. I do wish to point out, in relation to everyone for exactly that. I do wish to point out, in relation to the to point out, in relation to the proposal to point out, in relation to the proposal that's to point out, in relation to the proposal that's before to point out, in relation to the proposal that's before the to point out, in relation to the proposal that's before the House, proposal that's before the House, that proposal that's before the House, that there proposal that's before the House, that there be proposal that's before the House, that there be a proposal that's before the House, that there be a shortened proposal that's before the House, that there be a shortened select that there be a shortened select committee that there be a shortened select committee period, that there be a shortened select committee period, that that there be a shortened select committee period, that the that there be a shortened select committee period, that the fact that there be a shortened select committee period, that the fact that committee period, that the fact that we committee period, that the fact that we are committee period, that the fact that we are now committee period, that the fact that we are now discussing committee period, that the fact that we are now discussing and committee period, that the fact that we are now discussing and debating we are now discussing and debating this we are now discussing and debating this bill we are now discussing and debating this bill at we are now discussing and debating this bill at all we are now discussing and debating this bill at all in we are now discussing and debating this bill at all in the we are now discussing and debating this bill at all in the first we are now discussing and debating this bill at all in the first place this bill at all in the first place reflects this bill at all in the first place reflects there this bill at all in the first place reflects there has this bill at all in the first place reflects there has been this bill at all in the first place reflects there has been considerable reflects there has been considerable discussion reflects there has been considerable discussion in reflects there has been considerable discussion in the reflects there has been considerable discussion in the community, discussion in the community, including discussion in the community, including with discussion in the community, including with local discussion in the community, including with local government, including with local government, between including with local government, between themselves, including with local government, between themselves, with including with local government, between themselves, with central between themselves, with central government, between themselves, with central government, and between themselves, with central government, and certainly between themselves, with central government, and certainly I've between themselves, with central government, and certainly I've been government, and certainly I've been grateful government, and certainly I've been government, government, and certainly I've been grateful for guidance government, and certainly I've been grateful for guidance by government, and certainly I've been grateful for guidance by the government, and certainly I've been grateful for guidance by the mayors grateful for guidance by the mayors and grateful for guidance by the mayors and other grateful for guidance by the mayors and other elected grateful for guidance by the mayors and other elected representatives grateful for guidance by the mayors and other elected representatives of and other elected representatives of many and other elected representatives of many different and other elected representatives of many different councils and other elected representatives of many different councils across and other elected representatives of many different councils across New many different councils across New Zealand, many different councils across New Zealand, including many different councils across New Zealand, including those many different councils across New Zealand, including those in many different councils across New Zealand, including those in whose Zealand, including those in whose jurisdiction Zealand, including those in whose jurisdiction we Zealand, including those in whose jurisdiction we currently Zealand, including those in whose jurisdiction we currently stand. Zealand, including those in whose jurisdiction we currently stand. So jurisdiction we currently stand. So I jurisdiction we currently stand. So I think jurisdiction we currently stand. So I think I jurisdiction we currently stand. So I think I would jurisdiction we currently stand. So I think I would respectfully jurisdiction we currently stand. So I think I would respectfully point I think I would respectfully point out I think I would respectfully point out to I think I would respectfully point out to those I think I would respectfully point out to those who I think I would respectfully point out to those who are I think I would respectfully point out to those who are nervous I think I would respectfully point out to those who are nervous about I think I would respectfully point out to those who are nervous about a out to those who are nervous about a shortened out to those who are nervous about a shortened select out to those who are nervous about a shortened select committee shortened select committee report-back shortened select committee report-back period, shortened select committee report-back period, first, shortened select committee report-back period, first, that report-back period, first, that there report-back period, first, that there has report-back period, first, that there has already report-back period, first, that there has already been report-back period, first, that there has already been considerable there has already been considerable consultation there has already been considerable consultation and there has already been considerable consultation and discussion. there has already been considerable consultation and discussion. This there has already been considerable consultation and discussion. This is consultation and discussion. This is not consultation and discussion. This is not a consultation and discussion. This is not a new consultation and discussion. This is not a new or consultation and discussion. This is not a new or original consultation and discussion. This is not a new or original idea consultation and discussion. This is not a new or original idea to consultation and discussion. This is not a new or original idea to me. consultation and discussion. This is not a new or original idea to me. To not a new or original idea to me. To emphasise not a new or original idea to me. To emphasise to not a new or original idea to me. To emphasise to anyone not a new or original idea to me. To emphasise to anyone who's not a new or original idea to me. To emphasise to anyone who's listening, emphasise to anyone who's listening, and emphasise to anyone who's listening, and in emphasise to anyone who's listening, and in case emphasise to anyone who's listening, and in case it's emphasise to anyone who's listening, and in case it's not emphasise to anyone who's listening, and in case it's not clear emphasise to anyone who's listening, and in case it's not clear already, and in case it's not clear already, of and in case it's not clear already, of course and in case it's not clear already, of course this and in case it's not clear already, of course this bill and in case it's not clear already, of course this bill relates and in case it's not clear already, of course this bill relates only and in case it's not clear already, of course this bill relates only to of course this bill relates only to the of course this bill relates only to the extension of course this bill relates only to the extension of of course this bill relates only to the extension of the of course this bill relates only to the extension of the current the extension of the current deadlines, the extension of the current deadlines, as the extension of the current deadlines, as opposed the extension of the current deadlines, as opposed to the extension of the current deadlines, as opposed to the the extension of the current deadlines, as opposed to the more deadlines, as opposed to the more substantive deadlines, as opposed to the more substantive and deadlines, as opposed to the more substantive and difficult deadlines, as opposed to the more substantive and difficult and deadlines, as opposed to the more substantive and difficult and gnarly substantive and difficult and gnarly and substantive and difficult and gnarly and complex substantive and difficult and gnarly and complex question substantive and difficult and gnarly and complex question of substantive and difficult and gnarly and complex question of what substantive and difficult and gnarly and complex question of what the and complex question of what the review and complex question of what the review might and complex question of what the review might find and complex question of what the review might find and and complex question of what the review might find and therefore and complex question of what the review might find and therefore what review might find and therefore what the review might find and therefore what the regulations review might find and therefore what the regulations should review might find and therefore what the regulations should be review might find and therefore what the regulations should be going the regulations should be going forward. the regulations should be going forward. With the regulations should be going forward. With that, the regulations should be going forward. With that, I the regulations should be going forward. With that, I look the regulations should be going forward. With that, I look forward forward. With that, I look forward to forward. With that, I look forward to hearing forward. With that, I look forward to hearing how forward. With that, I look forward to hearing how the forward. With that, I look forward to hearing how the select forward. With that, I look forward to hearing how the select committee to hearing how the select committee goes to hearing how the select committee goes - to hearing how the select committee goes - obviously to hearing how the select committee goes - obviously not to hearing how the select committee goes - obviously not to to hearing how the select committee goes - obviously not to influence goes - obviously not to influence it, goes - obviously not to influence it, but goes - obviously not to influence it, but to goes - obviously not to influence it, but to take goes - obviously not to influence it, but to take great goes - obviously not to influence it, but to take great interest goes - obviously not to influence it, but to take great interest in goes - obviously not to influence it, but to take great interest in it it, but to take great interest in it - it, but to take great interest in it - and it, but to take great interest in it - and to it, but to take great interest in it - and to thank it, but to take great interest in it - and to thank in it, but to take great interest in it - and to thank in advance it, but to take great interest in it - and to thank in advance the - and to thank in advance the Transport - and to thank in advance the Transport and - and to thank in advance the Transport and Infrastructure Transport and Infrastructure Committee, Transport and Infrastructure Committee, whose Transport and Infrastructure Committee, whose members, Transport and Infrastructure Committee, whose members, many Transport and Infrastructure Committee, whose members, many of Committee, whose members, many of whom Committee, whose members, many of whom are Committee, whose members, many of whom are in Committee, whose members, many of whom are in the Committee, whose members, many of whom are in the House Committee, whose members, many of whom are in the House today Committee, whose members, many of whom are in the House today and Committee, whose members, many of whom are in the House today and have whom are in the House today and have already whom are in the House today and have already contributed whom are in the House today and have already contributed to whom are in the House today and have already contributed to the whom are in the House today and have already contributed to the debate, whom are in the House today and have already contributed to the debate, I already contributed to the debate, I know already contributed to the debate, I know they already contributed to the debate, I know they will already contributed to the debate, I know they will be already contributed to the debate, I know they will be diligent already contributed to the debate, I know they will be diligent in already contributed to the debate, I know they will be diligent in the know they will be diligent in the time know they will be diligent in the time that's know they will be diligent in the time that's afforded know they will be diligent in the time that's afforded to know they will be diligent in the time that's afforded to them. know they will be diligent in the time that's afforded to them. I know they will be diligent in the time that's afforded to them. I know time that's afforded to them. I know they time that's afforded to them. I know they will time that's afforded to them. I know they will take time that's afforded to them. I know they will take seriously time that's afforded to them. I know they will take seriously the they will take seriously the obligation they will take seriously the obligation to they will take seriously the obligation to consider they will take seriously the obligation to consider this they will take seriously the obligation to consider this question obligation to consider this question of obligation to consider this question of extension. obligation to consider this question of extension. And obligation to consider this question of extension. And finally, obligation to consider this question of extension. And finally, to obligation to consider this question of extension. And finally, to point of extension. And finally, to point out of extension. And finally, to point out that of extension. And finally, to point out that the of extension. And finally, to point out that the timeframe of extension. And finally, to point out that the timeframe that of extension. And finally, to point out that the timeframe that we're out that the timeframe that we're proposing out that the timeframe that we're proposing - out that the timeframe that we're proposing - 31 out that the timeframe that we're proposing - 31 October out that the timeframe that we're proposing - 31 October for proposing - 31 October for report-back proposing - 31 October for report-back - proposing - 31 October for report-back - will proposing - 31 October for report-back - will enable proposing - 31 October for report-back - will enable us proposing - 31 October for report-back - will enable us to proposing - 31 October for report-back - will enable us to pass report-back - will enable us to pass this report-back - will enable us to pass this bill report-back - will enable us to pass this bill by report-back - will enable us to pass this bill by the report-back - will enable us to pass this bill by the end report-back - will enable us to pass this bill by the end of report-back - will enable us to pass this bill by the end of this this bill by the end of this calendar this bill by the end of this calendar year, this bill by the end of this calendar year, thereby this bill by the end of this calendar year, thereby providing calendar year, thereby providing more calendar year, thereby providing more certainty, calendar year, thereby providing more certainty, more calendar year, thereby providing more certainty, more clarity, calendar year, thereby providing more certainty, more clarity, and more certainty, more clarity, and less more certainty, more clarity, and less retrospectivity more certainty, more clarity, and less retrospectivity to more certainty, more clarity, and less retrospectivity to the more certainty, more clarity, and less retrospectivity to the question less retrospectivity to the question of less retrospectivity to the question of an less retrospectivity to the question of an extension less retrospectivity to the question of an extension whereby, less retrospectivity to the question of an extension whereby, for less retrospectivity to the question of an extension whereby, for those of an extension whereby, for those in of an extension whereby, for those in the of an extension whereby, for those in the period of an extension whereby, for those in the period of of an extension whereby, for those in the period of time of an extension whereby, for those in the period of time from of an extension whereby, for those in the period of time from 2 of an extension whereby, for those in the period of time from 2 April in the period of time from 2 April until in the period of time from 2 April until today in the period of time from 2 April until today or in the period of time from 2 April until today or such in the period of time from 2 April until today or such time in the period of time from 2 April until today or such time as in the period of time from 2 April until today or such time as this until today or such time as this bill until today or such time as this bill comes until today or such time as this bill comes into until today or such time as this bill comes into effect, until today or such time as this bill comes into effect, are until today or such time as this bill comes into effect, are in until today or such time as this bill comes into effect, are in some bill comes into effect, are in some sort bill comes into effect, are in some sort of bill comes into effect, are in some sort of legal bill comes into effect, are in some sort of legal embow. bill comes into effect, are in some sort of legal embow. We bill comes into effect, are in some sort of legal embow. We know, bill comes into effect, are in some sort of legal embow. We know, Madam sort of legal embow. We know, Madam Speaker, sort of legal embow. We know, Madam Speaker, that sort of legal embow. We know, Madam Speaker, that ministers sort of legal embow. We know, Madam Speaker, that ministers cannot sort of legal embow. We know, Madam Speaker, that ministers cannot make Speaker, that ministers cannot make law Speaker, that ministers cannot make law merely Speaker, that ministers cannot make law merely by Speaker, that ministers cannot make law merely by announcing, Speaker, that ministers cannot make law merely by announcing, and law merely by announcing, and certainly law merely by announcing, and certainly in law merely by announcing, and certainly in the law merely by announcing, and certainly in the case law merely by announcing, and certainly in the case of law merely by announcing, and certainly in the case of statutory certainly in the case of statutory and certainly in the case of statutory and amendments, certainly in the case of statutory and amendments, we certainly in the case of statutory and amendments, we know certainly in the case of statutory and amendments, we know from certainly in the case of statutory and amendments, we know from Case and amendments, we know from Case Fitzgerald and amendments, we know from Case Fitzgerald and and amendments, we know from Case Fitzgerald and Muldoon and amendments, we know from Case Fitzgerald and Muldoon and and amendments, we know from Case Fitzgerald and Muldoon and other Fitzgerald and Muldoon and other constituents Fitzgerald and Muldoon and other constituents in Fitzgerald and Muldoon and other constituents in our Fitzgerald and Muldoon and other constituents in our constitutional constituents in our constitutional history, constituents in our constitutional history, we constituents in our constitutional history, we can't constituents in our constitutional history, we can't regard constituents in our constitutional history, we can't regard these history, we can't regard these changes history, we can't regard these changes in history, we can't regard these changes in law history, we can't regard these changes in law until history, we can't regard these changes in law until the history, we can't regard these changes in law until the law history, we can't regard these changes in law until the law is changes in law until the law is passed. changes in law until the law is passed. Therefore, changes in law until the law is passed. Therefore, it's changes in law until the law is passed. Therefore, it's relevant changes in law until the law is passed. Therefore, it's relevant to passed. Therefore, it's relevant to provide passed. Therefore, it's relevant to provide that passed. Therefore, it's relevant to provide that certainty passed. Therefore, it's relevant to provide that certainty and passed. Therefore, it's relevant to provide that certainty and then provide that certainty and then continue provide that certainty and then continue the provide that certainty and then continue the important provide that certainty and then continue the important task provide that certainty and then continue the important task of continue the important task of discussing continue the important task of discussing the continue the important task of discussing the major continue the important task of discussing the major points continue the important task of discussing the major points that discussing the major points that will discussing the major points that will surface discussing the major points that will surface during discussing the major points that will surface during the discussing the major points that will surface during the review, discussing the major points that will surface during the review, and will surface during the review, and indeed will surface during the review, and indeed have will surface during the review, and indeed have already will surface during the review, and indeed have already been will surface during the review, and indeed have already been the will surface during the review, and indeed have already been the subject indeed have already been the subject of indeed have already been the subject of some indeed have already been the subject of some discussion. indeed have already been the subject of some discussion. With indeed have already been the subject of some discussion. With that, indeed have already been the subject of some discussion. With that, I of some discussion. With that, I look of some discussion. With that, I look forward of some discussion. With that, I look forward to of some discussion. With that, I look forward to contributions of some discussion. With that, I look forward to contributions - of some discussion. With that, I look forward to contributions - no look forward to contributions - no doubt look forward to contributions - no doubt we'll look forward to contributions - no doubt we'll continue look forward to contributions - no doubt we'll continue to look forward to contributions - no doubt we'll continue to be doubt we'll continue to be constructive doubt we'll continue to be constructive in doubt we'll continue to be constructive in tone doubt we'll continue to be constructive in tone regarding doubt we'll continue to be constructive in tone regarding the constructive in tone regarding the report-back constructive in tone regarding the report-back period constructive in tone regarding the report-back period and, constructive in tone regarding the report-back period and, of constructive in tone regarding the report-back period and, of course, report-back period and, of course, wish report-back period and, of course, wish the report-back period and, of course, wish the select report-back period and, of course, wish the select committee report-back period and, of course, wish the select committee all report-back period and, of course, wish the select committee all the wish the select committee all the best wish the select committee all the best in wish the select committee all the best in its wish the select committee all the best in its considerations wish the select committee all the best in its considerations in wish the select committee all the best in its considerations in due best in its considerations in due course. best in its considerations in due course. The best in its considerations in due course. The question best in its considerations in due course. The question is best in its considerations in due course. The question is that best in its considerations in due course. The question is that the course. The question is that the motion course. The question is that the motion be course. The question is that the motion be agreed course. The question is that the motion be agreed to course. The question is that the motion be agreed to and course. The question is that the motion be agreed to and for course. The question is that the motion be agreed to and for all motion be agreed to and for all members motion be agreed to and for all members who motion be agreed to and for all members who might motion be agreed to and for all members who might wish motion be agreed to and for all members who might wish to motion be agreed to and for all members who might wish to take motion be agreed to and for all members who might wish to take a members who might wish to take a call members who might wish to take a call on members who might wish to take a call on this, members who might wish to take a call on this, it's members who might wish to take a call on this, it's a members who might wish to take a call on this, it's a reminder members who might wish to take a call on this, it's a reminder that call on this, it's a reminder that it call on this, it's a reminder that it is call on this, it's a reminder that it is about call on this, it's a reminder that it is about the call on this, it's a reminder that it is about the report-back call on this, it's a reminder that it is about the report-back time, it is about the report-back time, not it is about the report-back time, not the it is about the report-back time, not the details it is about the report-back time, not the details of it is about the report-back time, not the details of the it is about the report-back time, not the details of the bill. it is about the report-back time, not the details of the bill. The it is about the report-back time, not the details of the bill. The Hon not the details of the bill. The Hon Duncan not the details of the bill. The Hon Duncan Webb. not the details of the bill. The Hon Duncan Webb. Thank not the details of the bill. The Hon Duncan Webb. Thank you, not the details of the bill. The Hon Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister struck Duncan Webb. Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister struck a Speaker. The Minister struck a lovely Speaker. The Minister struck a lovely tone, Speaker. The Minister struck a lovely tone, but Speaker. The Minister struck a lovely tone, but didn't Speaker. The Minister struck a lovely tone, but didn't actually lovely tone, but didn't actually give lovely tone, but didn't actually give us lovely tone, but didn't actually give us any lovely tone, but didn't actually give us any reason lovely tone, but didn't actually give us any reason as lovely tone, but didn't actually give us any reason as to lovely tone, but didn't actually give us any reason as to why lovely tone, but didn't actually give us any reason as to why this give us any reason as to why this should give us any reason as to why this should be give us any reason as to why this should be truncated. give us any reason as to why this should be truncated. He give us any reason as to why this should be truncated. He basically should be truncated. He basically said should be truncated. He basically said in should be truncated. He basically said in that should be truncated. He basically said in that speech should be truncated. He basically said in that speech two should be truncated. He basically said in that speech two things, should be truncated. He basically said in that speech two things, if should be truncated. He basically said in that speech two things, if I said in that speech two things, if I heard said in that speech two things, if I heard him said in that speech two things, if I heard him rightly. said in that speech two things, if I heard him rightly. One said in that speech two things, if I heard him rightly. One is said in that speech two things, if I heard him rightly. One is - said in that speech two things, if I heard him rightly. One is - we've heard him rightly. One is - we've knocked heard him rightly. One is - we've knocked this heard him rightly. One is - we've knocked this idea heard him rightly. One is - we've knocked this idea around heard him rightly. One is - we've knocked this idea around a heard him rightly. One is - we've knocked this idea around a fair heard him rightly. One is - we've knocked this idea around a fair bit, knocked this idea around a fair bit, so knocked this idea around a fair bit, so there's knocked this idea around a fair bit, so there's been knocked this idea around a fair bit, so there's been some knocked this idea around a fair bit, so there's been some sense knocked this idea around a fair bit, so there's been some sense of so there's been some sense of community so there's been some sense of community consultation. so there's been some sense of community consultation. And so there's been some sense of community consultation. And the community consultation. And the other community consultation. And the other thing community consultation. And the other thing was community consultation. And the other thing was that community consultation. And the other thing was that people community consultation. And the other thing was that people who, other thing was that people who, when other thing was that people who, when the other thing was that people who, when the obligation other thing was that people who, when the obligation crystallised other thing was that people who, when the obligation crystallised in when the obligation crystallised in April, when the obligation crystallised in April, therein when the obligation crystallised in April, therein are when the obligation crystallised in April, therein are kind when the obligation crystallised in April, therein are kind of when the obligation crystallised in April, therein are kind of in when the obligation crystallised in April, therein are kind of in a April, therein are kind of in a limbo. April, therein are kind of in a limbo. Neither April, therein are kind of in a limbo. Neither of April, therein are kind of in a limbo. Neither of those April, therein are kind of in a limbo. Neither of those pressed April, therein are kind of in a limbo. Neither of those pressed why limbo. Neither of those pressed why there limbo. Neither of those pressed why there should limbo. Neither of those pressed why there should be limbo. Neither of those pressed why there should be a limbo. Neither of those pressed why there should be a less-than-4-month there should be a less-than-4-month report-back there should be a less-than-4-month report-back stage. there should be a less-than-4-month report-back stage. I there should be a less-than-4-month report-back stage. I guess there should be a less-than-4-month report-back stage. I guess it's report-back stage. I guess it's difficult report-back stage. I guess it's difficult for report-back stage. I guess it's difficult for me report-back stage. I guess it's difficult for me to report-back stage. I guess it's difficult for me to stand report-back stage. I guess it's difficult for me to stand up report-back stage. I guess it's difficult for me to stand up and report-back stage. I guess it's difficult for me to stand up and now difficult for me to stand up and now debate difficult for me to stand up and now debate and difficult for me to stand up and now debate and say, difficult for me to stand up and now debate and say, "The difficult for me to stand up and now debate and say, "The reasons difficult for me to stand up and now debate and say, "The reasons you debate and say, "The reasons you gave debate and say, "The reasons you gave were debate and say, "The reasons you gave were terrible," debate and say, "The reasons you gave were terrible," because debate and say, "The reasons you gave were terrible," because he gave were terrible," because he actually gave were terrible," because he actually gave gave were terrible," because he actually gave mow gave were terrible," because he actually gave mow reasons. gave were terrible," because he actually gave mow reasons. It gave were terrible," because he actually gave mow reasons. It seemed actually gave mow reasons. It seemed to actually gave mow reasons. It seemed to say, actually gave mow reasons. It seemed to say, "We actually gave mow reasons. It seemed to say, "We don't actually gave mow reasons. It seemed to say, "We don't really actually gave mow reasons. It seemed to say, "We don't really think actually gave mow reasons. It seemed to say, "We don't really think we to say, "We don't really think we need to say, "We don't really think we need a to say, "We don't really think we need a 6-month to say, "We don't really think we need a 6-month period." to say, "We don't really think we need a 6-month period." I to say, "We don't really think we need a 6-month period." I think to say, "We don't really think we need a 6-month period." I think it's need a 6-month period." I think it's really need a 6-month period." I think it's really important need a 6-month period." I think it's really important in need a 6-month period." I think it's really important in this need a 6-month period." I think it's really important in this House need a 6-month period." I think it's really important in this House that really important in this House that we really important in this House that we note really important in this House that we note a really important in this House that we note a full really important in this House that we note a full select really important in this House that we note a full select committee we note a full select committee process we note a full select committee process is we note a full select committee process is really, we note a full select committee process is really, really we note a full select committee process is really, really important process is really, really important so process is really, really important so that process is really, really important so that we process is really, really important so that we have... process is really, really important so that we have... <INTERRUPTION> so that we have... <INTERRUPTION> so that we have... <INTERRUPTION> ..both so that we have... <INTERRUPTION> ..both a so that we have... <INTERRUPTION> ..both a good so that we have... <INTERRUPTION> ..both a good process so that we have... <INTERRUPTION> ..both a good process and so that we have... <INTERRUPTION> ..both a good process and a ..both a good process and a legitimacy ..both a good process and a legitimacy around ..both a good process and a legitimacy around what ..both a good process and a legitimacy around what Parliament ..both a good process and a legitimacy around what Parliament is legitimacy around what Parliament is doing. legitimacy around what Parliament is doing. And legitimacy around what Parliament is doing. And whilst legitimacy around what Parliament is doing. And whilst we legitimacy around what Parliament is doing. And whilst we know legitimacy around what Parliament is doing. And whilst we know that doing. And whilst we know that urgency doing. And whilst we know that urgency and doing. And whilst we know that urgency and shortened doing. And whilst we know that urgency and shortened processes doing. And whilst we know that urgency and shortened processes are urgency and shortened processes are useful urgency and shortened processes are useful sometimes, urgency and shortened processes are useful sometimes, and urgency and shortened processes are useful sometimes, and appropriate urgency and shortened processes are useful sometimes, and appropriate - useful sometimes, and appropriate - all useful sometimes, and appropriate - all governments useful sometimes, and appropriate - all governments use useful sometimes, and appropriate - all governments use them useful sometimes, and appropriate - all governments use them - useful sometimes, and appropriate - all governments use them - they all governments use them - they certainly all governments use them - they certainly have all governments use them - they certainly have to all governments use them - they certainly have to be all governments use them - they certainly have to be very all governments use them - they certainly have to be very clearly certainly have to be very clearly justified. certainly have to be very clearly justified. I certainly have to be very clearly justified. I mean, certainly have to be very clearly justified. I mean, it's certainly have to be very clearly justified. I mean, it's a certainly have to be very clearly justified. I mean, it's a little justified. I mean, it's a little ironic justified. I mean, it's a little ironic to justified. I mean, it's a little ironic to me justified. I mean, it's a little ironic to me that justified. I mean, it's a little ironic to me that we've justified. I mean, it's a little ironic to me that we've got justified. I mean, it's a little ironic to me that we've got a justified. I mean, it's a little ironic to me that we've got a bill ironic to me that we've got a bill here ironic to me that we've got a bill here which ironic to me that we've got a bill here which is ironic to me that we've got a bill here which is extending ironic to me that we've got a bill here which is extending time, here which is extending time, kicking here which is extending time, kicking the here which is extending time, kicking the can here which is extending time, kicking the can down here which is extending time, kicking the can down the here which is extending time, kicking the can down the road, here which is extending time, kicking the can down the road, and kicking the can down the road, and we're kicking the can down the road, and we're doing kicking the can down the road, and we're doing it kicking the can down the road, and we're doing it with kicking the can down the road, and we're doing it with a kicking the can down the road, and we're doing it with a truncated we're doing it with a truncated process. we're doing it with a truncated process. With we're doing it with a truncated process. With one we're doing it with a truncated process. With one hand, we're doing it with a truncated process. With one hand, we're process. With one hand, we're saying, process. With one hand, we're saying, "Oh, process. With one hand, we're saying, "Oh, no process. With one hand, we're saying, "Oh, no - process. With one hand, we're saying, "Oh, no - we process. With one hand, we're saying, "Oh, no - we can process. With one hand, we're saying, "Oh, no - we can adjust saying, "Oh, no - we can adjust timeframes saying, "Oh, no - we can adjust timeframes and saying, "Oh, no - we can adjust timeframes and push saying, "Oh, no - we can adjust timeframes and push it saying, "Oh, no - we can adjust timeframes and push it out saying, "Oh, no - we can adjust timeframes and push it out - timeframes and push it out - everyone timeframes and push it out - everyone needs timeframes and push it out - everyone needs a timeframes and push it out - everyone needs a bit timeframes and push it out - everyone needs a bit more timeframes and push it out - everyone needs a bit more time." timeframes and push it out - everyone needs a bit more time." But everyone needs a bit more time." But when everyone needs a bit more time." But when we're everyone needs a bit more time." But when we're considering everyone needs a bit more time." But when we're considering that everyone needs a bit more time." But when we're considering that very when we're considering that very question, when we're considering that very question, we're when we're considering that very question, we're giving when we're considering that very question, we're giving the when we're considering that very question, we're giving the House question, we're giving the House less question, we're giving the House less time. question, we're giving the House less time. So question, we're giving the House less time. So that question, we're giving the House less time. So that seems question, we're giving the House less time. So that seems very less time. So that seems very strange less time. So that seems very strange to less time. So that seems very strange to me. less time. So that seems very strange to me. And less time. So that seems very strange to me. And I less time. So that seems very strange to me. And I simply less time. So that seems very strange to me. And I simply can't strange to me. And I simply can't accept, strange to me. And I simply can't accept, in strange to me. And I simply can't accept, in terms strange to me. And I simply can't accept, in terms of strange to me. And I simply can't accept, in terms of the strange to me. And I simply can't accept, in terms of the limbo... accept, in terms of the limbo... <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> ..question <INTERRUPTION> ..question - <INTERRUPTION> ..question - I <INTERRUPTION> ..question - I simply <INTERRUPTION> ..question - I simply can't <INTERRUPTION> ..question - I simply can't accept ..question - I simply can't accept that ..question - I simply can't accept that it's ..question - I simply can't accept that it's problematic. ..question - I simply can't accept that it's problematic. Yes, ..question - I simply can't accept that it's problematic. Yes, we've that it's problematic. Yes, we've all that it's problematic. Yes, we've all heard that it's problematic. Yes, we've all heard of that it's problematic. Yes, we've all heard of the that it's problematic. Yes, we've all heard of the Fitzgerald that it's problematic. Yes, we've all heard of the Fitzgerald and all heard of the Fitzgerald and Muldoon all heard of the Fitzgerald and Muldoon case, all heard of the Fitzgerald and Muldoon case, and all heard of the Fitzgerald and Muldoon case, and we all heard of the Fitzgerald and Muldoon case, and we know all heard of the Fitzgerald and Muldoon case, and we know that all heard of the Fitzgerald and Muldoon case, and we know that that Muldoon case, and we know that that Minister, Muldoon case, and we know that that Minister, of Muldoon case, and we know that that Minister, of course, Muldoon case, and we know that that Minister, of course, knows Muldoon case, and we know that that Minister, of course, knows he Muldoon case, and we know that that Minister, of course, knows he can't Minister, of course, knows he can't stand Minister, of course, knows he can't stand up Minister, of course, knows he can't stand up and Minister, of course, knows he can't stand up and declare Minister, of course, knows he can't stand up and declare that Minister, of course, knows he can't stand up and declare that the Minister, of course, knows he can't stand up and declare that the law stand up and declare that the law will stand up and declare that the law will be stand up and declare that the law will be changed stand up and declare that the law will be changed in stand up and declare that the law will be changed in the stand up and declare that the law will be changed in the future stand up and declare that the law will be changed in the future and will be changed in the future and change will be changed in the future and change behaviour will be changed in the future and change behaviour now. will be changed in the future and change behaviour now. We will be changed in the future and change behaviour now. We get will be changed in the future and change behaviour now. We get that. change behaviour now. We get that. But, change behaviour now. We get that. But, pragmatically change behaviour now. We get that. But, pragmatically speaking, change behaviour now. We get that. But, pragmatically speaking, some But, pragmatically speaking, some months But, pragmatically speaking, some months ago, But, pragmatically speaking, some months ago, the But, pragmatically speaking, some months ago, the Minister But, pragmatically speaking, some months ago, the Minister issued But, pragmatically speaking, some months ago, the Minister issued a months ago, the Minister issued a press months ago, the Minister issued a press release months ago, the Minister issued a press release and months ago, the Minister issued a press release and let months ago, the Minister issued a press release and let it months ago, the Minister issued a press release and let it be months ago, the Minister issued a press release and let it be known months ago, the Minister issued a press release and let it be known to press release and let it be known to the press release and let it be known to the community press release and let it be known to the community that press release and let it be known to the community that he press release and let it be known to the community that he was press release and let it be known to the community that he was going press release and let it be known to the community that he was going to the community that he was going to take the community that he was going to take a the community that he was going to take a particular the community that he was going to take a particular approach. the community that he was going to take a particular approach. And the community that he was going to take a particular approach. And that take a particular approach. And that gave take a particular approach. And that gave considerable take a particular approach. And that gave considerable certainty take a particular approach. And that gave considerable certainty - take a particular approach. And that gave considerable certainty - that's gave considerable certainty - that's why gave considerable certainty - that's why he gave considerable certainty - that's why he did gave considerable certainty - that's why he did it, gave considerable certainty - that's why he did it, so gave considerable certainty - that's why he did it, so that gave considerable certainty - that's why he did it, so that the gave considerable certainty - that's why he did it, so that the sector why he did it, so that the sector could why he did it, so that the sector could have why he did it, so that the sector could have certainty. why he did it, so that the sector could have certainty. Now, why he did it, so that the sector could have certainty. Now, there's could have certainty. Now, there's no could have certainty. Now, there's no suggestion could have certainty. Now, there's no suggestion - could have certainty. Now, there's no suggestion - and could have certainty. Now, there's no suggestion - and couldn't no suggestion - and couldn't imagine, no suggestion - and couldn't imagine, of no suggestion - and couldn't imagine, of all no suggestion - and couldn't imagine, of all the no suggestion - and couldn't imagine, of all the ministers no suggestion - and couldn't imagine, of all the ministers of imagine, of all the ministers of that imagine, of all the ministers of that Government, imagine, of all the ministers of that Government, that imagine, of all the ministers of that Government, that that imagine, of all the ministers of that Government, that that one imagine, of all the ministers of that Government, that that one would that Government, that that one would go that Government, that that one would go back that Government, that that one would go back on that Government, that that one would go back on his that Government, that that one would go back on his word that Government, that that one would go back on his word - that Government, that that one would go back on his word - so that Government, that that one would go back on his word - so we that Government, that that one would go back on his word - so we know go back on his word - so we know that go back on his word - so we know that the go back on his word - so we know that the sector go back on his word - so we know that the sector has go back on his word - so we know that the sector has certainty go back on his word - so we know that the sector has certainty around that the sector has certainty around this. that the sector has certainty around this. It's that the sector has certainty around this. It's genuinely that the sector has certainty around this. It's genuinely - that the sector has certainty around this. It's genuinely - I that the sector has certainty around this. It's genuinely - I just that the sector has certainty around this. It's genuinely - I just can't this. It's genuinely - I just can't see this. It's genuinely - I just can't see it. this. It's genuinely - I just can't see it. Well, this. It's genuinely - I just can't see it. Well, we this. It's genuinely - I just can't see it. Well, we could this. It's genuinely - I just can't see it. Well, we could get this. It's genuinely - I just can't see it. Well, we could get the this. It's genuinely - I just can't see it. Well, we could get the same see it. Well, we could get the same result see it. Well, we could get the same result without see it. Well, we could get the same result without any see it. Well, we could get the same result without any downside see it. Well, we could get the same result without any downside by result without any downside by giving result without any downside by giving the result without any downside by giving the select result without any downside by giving the select committee result without any downside by giving the select committee either giving the select committee either four giving the select committee either four months giving the select committee either four months - giving the select committee either four months - in giving the select committee either four months - in which giving the select committee either four months - in which case giving the select committee either four months - in which case we four months - in which case we wouldn't four months - in which case we wouldn't be four months - in which case we wouldn't be having four months - in which case we wouldn't be having a four months - in which case we wouldn't be having a debate four months - in which case we wouldn't be having a debate - four months - in which case we wouldn't be having a debate - or four months - in which case we wouldn't be having a debate - or the wouldn't be having a debate - or the routine wouldn't be having a debate - or the routine and wouldn't be having a debate - or the routine and regular wouldn't be having a debate - or the routine and regular six wouldn't be having a debate - or the routine and regular six months, routine and regular six months, which routine and regular six months, which is routine and regular six months, which is what routine and regular six months, which is what is routine and regular six months, which is what is normal routine and regular six months, which is what is normal and which is what is normal and appropriate. which is what is normal and appropriate. It which is what is normal and appropriate. It may which is what is normal and appropriate. It may be which is what is normal and appropriate. It may be that which is what is normal and appropriate. It may be that the appropriate. It may be that the Minister appropriate. It may be that the Minister will appropriate. It may be that the Minister will round appropriate. It may be that the Minister will round off appropriate. It may be that the Minister will round off and appropriate. It may be that the Minister will round off and explain Minister will round off and explain to Minister will round off and explain to the Minister will round off and explain to the House Minister will round off and explain to the House why Minister will round off and explain to the House why there Minister will round off and explain to the House why there is Minister will round off and explain to the House why there is some to the House why there is some particular to the House why there is some particular urgency to the House why there is some particular urgency that to the House why there is some particular urgency that means to the House why there is some particular urgency that means we particular urgency that means we need particular urgency that means we need less particular urgency that means we need less than particular urgency that means we need less than four particular urgency that means we need less than four months particular urgency that means we need less than four months to particular urgency that means we need less than four months to get particular urgency that means we need less than four months to get on need less than four months to get on with need less than four months to get on with it need less than four months to get on with it - need less than four months to get on with it - it need less than four months to get on with it - it would need less than four months to get on with it - it would be need less than four months to get on with it - it would be useful need less than four months to get on with it - it would be useful if need less than four months to get on with it - it would be useful if it with it - it would be useful if it really with it - it would be useful if it really put with it - it would be useful if it really put the with it - it would be useful if it really put the finger with it - it would be useful if it really put the finger on with it - it would be useful if it really put the finger on it. with it - it would be useful if it really put the finger on it. Because really put the finger on it. Because the really put the finger on it. Because the procedure really put the finger on it. Because the procedure is really put the finger on it. Because the procedure is an really put the finger on it. Because the procedure is an important really put the finger on it. Because the procedure is an important one. the procedure is an important one. The the procedure is an important one. The select the procedure is an important one. The select committee the procedure is an important one. The select committee procedure the procedure is an important one. The select committee procedure is the procedure is an important one. The select committee procedure is an The select committee procedure is an important The select committee procedure is an important one. The select committee procedure is an important one. And The select committee procedure is an important one. And it The select committee procedure is an important one. And it does The select committee procedure is an important one. And it does truncate. important one. And it does truncate. And important one. And it does truncate. And even important one. And it does truncate. And even if important one. And it does truncate. And even if - important one. And it does truncate. And even if - particularly important one. And it does truncate. And even if - particularly in important one. And it does truncate. And even if - particularly in what And even if - particularly in what is And even if - particularly in what is - And even if - particularly in what is - I And even if - particularly in what is - I accept And even if - particularly in what is - I accept the And even if - particularly in what is - I accept the bill And even if - particularly in what is - I accept the bill does And even if - particularly in what is - I accept the bill does a And even if - particularly in what is - I accept the bill does a whole is - I accept the bill does a whole lot is - I accept the bill does a whole lot of is - I accept the bill does a whole lot of other is - I accept the bill does a whole lot of other things is - I accept the bill does a whole lot of other things that is - I accept the bill does a whole lot of other things that people is - I accept the bill does a whole lot of other things that people may lot of other things that people may take lot of other things that people may take an lot of other things that people may take an interest lot of other things that people may take an interest in lot of other things that people may take an interest in about lot of other things that people may take an interest in about small, take an interest in about small, heated take an interest in about small, heated swimming take an interest in about small, heated swimming pools take an interest in about small, heated swimming pools and take an interest in about small, heated swimming pools and things heated swimming pools and things like heated swimming pools and things like that, heated swimming pools and things like that, but heated swimming pools and things like that, but it heated swimming pools and things like that, but it is heated swimming pools and things like that, but it is a heated swimming pools and things like that, but it is a relatively like that, but it is a relatively technical like that, but it is a relatively technical issue like that, but it is a relatively technical issue in like that, but it is a relatively technical issue in terms like that, but it is a relatively technical issue in terms of technical issue in terms of earthquake-strengthening technical issue in terms of earthquake-strengthening and earthquake-strengthening and timelines earthquake-strengthening and timelines and earthquake-strengthening and timelines and how earthquake-strengthening and timelines and how we earthquake-strengthening and timelines and how we go earthquake-strengthening and timelines and how we go about earthquake-strengthening and timelines and how we go about it. earthquake-strengthening and timelines and how we go about it. So timelines and how we go about it. So it's timelines and how we go about it. So it's not timelines and how we go about it. So it's not likely timelines and how we go about it. So it's not likely that timelines and how we go about it. So it's not likely that people timelines and how we go about it. So it's not likely that people are it's not likely that people are going it's not likely that people are going to it's not likely that people are going to front it's not likely that people are going to front up it's not likely that people are going to front up and it's not likely that people are going to front up and give it's not likely that people are going to front up and give their going to front up and give their personal going to front up and give their personal reckons going to front up and give their personal reckons on going to front up and give their personal reckons on what going to front up and give their personal reckons on what the going to front up and give their personal reckons on what the issue personal reckons on what the issue is. personal reckons on what the issue is. There'll personal reckons on what the issue is. There'll be personal reckons on what the issue is. There'll be substantive is. There'll be substantive submissions is. There'll be substantive submissions backed is. There'll be substantive submissions backed by is. There'll be substantive submissions backed by evidence. is. There'll be substantive submissions backed by evidence. It submissions backed by evidence. It is submissions backed by evidence. It is quite submissions backed by evidence. It is quite likely submissions backed by evidence. It is quite likely - submissions backed by evidence. It is quite likely - and submissions backed by evidence. It is quite likely - and I submissions backed by evidence. It is quite likely - and I genuinely is quite likely - and I genuinely hope is quite likely - and I genuinely hope that is quite likely - and I genuinely hope that the is quite likely - and I genuinely hope that the committee is quite likely - and I genuinely hope that the committee will is quite likely - and I genuinely hope that the committee will be hope that the committee will be informed hope that the committee will be informed by hope that the committee will be informed by - hope that the committee will be informed by - submissions hope that the committee will be informed by - submissions from informed by - submissions from professional informed by - submissions from professional people, informed by - submissions from professional people, like informed by - submissions from professional people, like lawyers professional people, like lawyers who professional people, like lawyers who have professional people, like lawyers who have been professional people, like lawyers who have been engaged professional people, like lawyers who have been engaged in professional people, like lawyers who have been engaged in that professional people, like lawyers who have been engaged in that space, who have been engaged in that space, like who have been engaged in that space, like professional who have been engaged in that space, like professional engineers, who have been engaged in that space, like professional engineers, like like professional engineers, like property like professional engineers, like property owners like professional engineers, like property owners and like professional engineers, like property owners and managers. like professional engineers, like property owners and managers. And property owners and managers. And those property owners and managers. And those people property owners and managers. And those people want property owners and managers. And those people want to property owners and managers. And those people want to do property owners and managers. And those people want to do a those people want to do a professional those people want to do a professional submission, those people want to do a professional submission, which those people want to do a professional submission, which takes professional submission, which takes time. professional submission, which takes time. And professional submission, which takes time. And it professional submission, which takes time. And it would professional submission, which takes time. And it would be professional submission, which takes time. And it would be a professional submission, which takes time. And it would be a sad professional submission, which takes time. And it would be a sad day professional submission, which takes time. And it would be a sad day if, time. And it would be a sad day if, because time. And it would be a sad day if, because of time. And it would be a sad day if, because of a time. And it would be a sad day if, because of a truncated time. And it would be a sad day if, because of a truncated timeframe, because of a truncated timeframe, people because of a truncated timeframe, people who because of a truncated timeframe, people who genuinely because of a truncated timeframe, people who genuinely wanted because of a truncated timeframe, people who genuinely wanted to people who genuinely wanted to inform people who genuinely wanted to inform the people who genuinely wanted to inform the House people who genuinely wanted to inform the House and people who genuinely wanted to inform the House and give inform the House and give substantive inform the House and give substantive and inform the House and give substantive and informed substantive and informed professional substantive and informed professional submissions substantive and informed professional submissions didn't substantive and informed professional submissions didn't get professional submissions didn't get an professional submissions didn't get an opportunity professional submissions didn't get an opportunity to professional submissions didn't get an opportunity to it professional submissions didn't get an opportunity to it because professional submissions didn't get an opportunity to it because their an opportunity to it because their professional an opportunity to it because their professional lives an opportunity to it because their professional lives were an opportunity to it because their professional lives were too an opportunity to it because their professional lives were too busy an opportunity to it because their professional lives were too busy or professional lives were too busy or whatever. professional lives were too busy or whatever. I professional lives were too busy or whatever. I understand professional lives were too busy or whatever. I understand the professional lives were too busy or whatever. I understand the Minister whatever. I understand the Minister will whatever. I understand the Minister will have whatever. I understand the Minister will have another whatever. I understand the Minister will have another opportunity whatever. I understand the Minister will have another opportunity to will have another opportunity to speak. will have another opportunity to speak. It will have another opportunity to speak. It is will have another opportunity to speak. It is urgent. will have another opportunity to speak. It is urgent. The will have another opportunity to speak. It is urgent. The risk will have another opportunity to speak. It is urgent. The risk that speak. It is urgent. The risk that we're speak. It is urgent. The risk that we're running speak. It is urgent. The risk that we're running at speak. It is urgent. The risk that we're running at less speak. It is urgent. The risk that we're running at less quality speak. It is urgent. The risk that we're running at less quality - speak. It is urgent. The risk that we're running at less quality - I we're running at less quality - I know we're running at less quality - I know the we're running at less quality - I know the committee we're running at less quality - I know the committee will we're running at less quality - I know the committee will do we're running at less quality - I know the committee will do the we're running at less quality - I know the committee will do the best know the committee will do the best job know the committee will do the best job it know the committee will do the best job it can, know the committee will do the best job it can, but know the committee will do the best job it can, but a know the committee will do the best job it can, but a lower-quality job it can, but a lower-quality select job it can, but a lower-quality select committee job it can, but a lower-quality select committee procedure job it can, but a lower-quality select committee procedure than select committee procedure than would select committee procedure than would otherwise select committee procedure than would otherwise be select committee procedure than would otherwise be the select committee procedure than would otherwise be the case select committee procedure than would otherwise be the case is select committee procedure than would otherwise be the case is the would otherwise be the case is the risk. would otherwise be the case is the risk. I would otherwise be the case is the risk. I would would otherwise be the case is the risk. I would leave would otherwise be the case is the risk. I would leave it would otherwise be the case is the risk. I would leave it there. would otherwise be the case is the risk. I would leave it there. I would otherwise be the case is the risk. I would leave it there. I know risk. I would leave it there. I know there's risk. I would leave it there. I know there's another risk. I would leave it there. I know there's another bill risk. I would leave it there. I know there's another bill I'm risk. I would leave it there. I know there's another bill I'm very risk. I would leave it there. I know there's another bill I'm very keen there's another bill I'm very keen to there's another bill I'm very keen to speak there's another bill I'm very keen to speak on there's another bill I'm very keen to speak on a there's another bill I'm very keen to speak on a little there's another bill I'm very keen to speak on a little later there's another bill I'm very keen to speak on a little later on there's another bill I'm very keen to speak on a little later on in to speak on a little later on in this to speak on a little later on in this House...Ject to speak on a little later on in this House...Ject ..but to speak on a little later on in this House...Ject ..but I'm to speak on a little later on in this House...Ject ..but I'm sure this House...Ject ..but I'm sure some this House...Ject ..but I'm sure some of this House...Ject ..but I'm sure some of my this House...Ject ..but I'm sure some of my colleagues this House...Ject ..but I'm sure some of my colleagues will this House...Ject ..but I'm sure some of my colleagues will want this House...Ject ..but I'm sure some of my colleagues will want to some of my colleagues will want to speak some of my colleagues will want to speak to some of my colleagues will want to speak to this some of my colleagues will want to speak to this as some of my colleagues will want to speak to this as well. some of my colleagues will want to speak to this as well. Kia some of my colleagues will want to speak to this as well. Kia ora. some of my colleagues will want to speak to this as well. Kia ora. The speak to this as well. Kia ora. The question speak to this as well. Kia ora. The question is speak to this as well. Kia ora. The question is that speak to this as well. Kia ora. The question is that the speak to this as well. Kia ora. The question is that the motion speak to this as well. Kia ora. The question is that the motion be question is that the motion be agreed question is that the motion be agreed to. question is that the motion be agreed to. Those question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that question is that the motion be agreed to. Those of that opinion, agreed to. Those of that opinion, say agreed to. Those of that opinion, say Aye. agreed to. Those of that opinion, say Aye. To agreed to. Those of that opinion, say Aye. To the agreed to. Those of that opinion, say Aye. To the contrary, agreed to. Those of that opinion, say Aye. To the contrary, No. agreed to. Those of that opinion, say Aye. To the contrary, No. The say Aye. To the contrary, No. The Ayes say Aye. To the contrary, No. The Ayes have say Aye. To the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. say Aye. To the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. A say Aye. To the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. A party say Aye. To the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. A party vote say Aye. To the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. A party vote has say Aye. To the contrary, No. The Ayes have it. A party vote has been Ayes have it. A party vote has been called Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. Will Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. Will the Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. Will the Clerk Ayes have it. A party vote has been called for. Will the Clerk please called for. Will the Clerk please conduct called for. Will the Clerk please conduct a called for. Will the Clerk please conduct a party called for. Will the Clerk please conduct a party vote? New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: INTERPRETER: 6 INTERPRETER: 6 votes INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. Darleen INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: 1 Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: 1 opposed. The The Ayes The Ayes are The Ayes are 68, The Ayes are 68, the The Ayes are 68, the Noes The Ayes are 68, the Noes are The Ayes are 68, the Noes are 55. The Ayes are 68, the Noes are 55. The The Ayes are 68, the Noes are 55. The motion The Ayes are 68, the Noes are 55. The motion is The Ayes are 68, the Noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The motion is agreed. Just The motion is agreed. Just before The motion is agreed. Just before I The motion is agreed. Just before I call The motion is agreed. Just before I call on The motion is agreed. Just before I call on Government Just before I call on Government Orders Just before I call on Government Orders of Just before I call on Government Orders of the Just before I call on Government Orders of the Day Just before I call on Government Orders of the Day No. Just before I call on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 Just before I call on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and Just before I call on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3, Just before I call on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3, I Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3, I just Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3, I just wanted Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3, I just wanted to Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3, I just wanted to clarify Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3, I just wanted to clarify actually Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3, I just wanted to clarify actually that just wanted to clarify actually that the just wanted to clarify actually that the Minister just wanted to clarify actually that the Minister only just wanted to clarify actually that the Minister only has just wanted to clarify actually that the Minister only has one just wanted to clarify actually that the Minister only has one call just wanted to clarify actually that the Minister only has one call in the Minister only has one call in any the Minister only has one call in any motion, the Minister only has one call in any motion, so the Minister only has one call in any motion, so the the Minister only has one call in any motion, so the Minister the Minister only has one call in any motion, so the Minister - the Minister only has one call in any motion, so the Minister - even any motion, so the Minister - even if any motion, so the Minister - even if he any motion, so the Minister - even if he wanted any motion, so the Minister - even if he wanted to any motion, so the Minister - even if he wanted to - any motion, so the Minister - even if he wanted to - was any motion, so the Minister - even if he wanted to - was unable any motion, so the Minister - even if he wanted to - was unable to... if he wanted to - was unable to... <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> Just <INTERRUPTION> Just wanted <INTERRUPTION> Just wanted to <INTERRUPTION> Just wanted to make <INTERRUPTION> Just wanted to make that <INTERRUPTION> Just wanted to make that - <INTERRUPTION> Just wanted to make that - yeah, Just wanted to make that - yeah, just Just wanted to make that - yeah, just had Just wanted to make that - yeah, just had that Just wanted to make that - yeah, just had that advice Just wanted to make that - yeah, just had that advice and Just wanted to make that - yeah, just had that advice and wanted Just wanted to make that - yeah, just had that advice and wanted to just had that advice and wanted to make just had that advice and wanted to make it just had that advice and wanted to make it clear just had that advice and wanted to make it clear so just had that advice and wanted to make it clear so that just had that advice and wanted to make it clear so that it's just had that advice and wanted to make it clear so that it's not just had that advice and wanted to make it clear so that it's not a make it clear so that it's not a problem make it clear so that it's not a problem on make it clear so that it's not a problem on future make it clear so that it's not a problem on future occasions. make it clear so that it's not a problem on future occasions. I make it clear so that it's not a problem on future occasions. I call problem on future occasions. I call on problem on future occasions. I call on Government problem on future occasions. I call on Government Orders problem on future occasions. I call on Government Orders of problem on future occasions. I call on Government Orders of the problem on future occasions. I call on Government Orders of the Day problem on future occasions. I call on Government Orders of the Day No. on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3. on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3. Gangs on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3. Gangs Bill on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3. Gangs Bill - on Government Orders of the Day No. 2 and 3. Gangs Bill - committee 2 and 3. Gangs Bill - committee stage 2 and 3. Gangs Bill - committee stage continued. 2 and 3. Gangs Bill - committee stage continued. Local 2 and 3. Gangs Bill - committee stage continued. Local Government stage continued. Local Government (Water stage continued. Local Government (Water Services stage continued. Local Government (Water Services Preliminary (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill - (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill - committee (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill - committee stage Arrangements) Bill - committee stage considered. Arrangements) Bill - committee stage considered. I Arrangements) Bill - committee stage considered. I declare Arrangements) Bill - committee stage considered. I declare the Arrangements) Bill - committee stage considered. I declare the House Arrangements) Bill - committee stage considered. I declare the House in considered. I declare the House in committee considered. I declare the House in committee for considered. I declare the House in committee for further considered. I declare the House in committee for further consideration committee for further consideration of committee for further consideration of those committee for further consideration of those bills. Members, Members, the Members, the House Members, the House is Members, the House is in Members, the House is in committee Members, the House is in committee for Members, the House is in committee for further Members, the House is in committee for further consideration Members, the House is in committee for further consideration of Members, the House is in committee for further consideration of the for further consideration of the Gangs for further consideration of the Gangs Legislation for further consideration of the Gangs Legislation Amendment for further consideration of the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill for further consideration of the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and the Local Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and the Local Government Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and the Local Government (Water Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and the Local Government (Water Services the Local Government (Water Services Preliminary the Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) the Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Members, Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Members, we Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Members, we come Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Members, we come now Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Members, we come now to Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Members, we come now to the Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Members, we come now to the Gangs Members, we come now to the Gangs Legislation Members, we come now to the Gangs Legislation Amendment Members, we come now to the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill. Members, we come now to the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill. When Members, we come now to the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill. When we Legislation Amendment Bill. When we were Legislation Amendment Bill. When we were last Legislation Amendment Bill. When we were last considering Legislation Amendment Bill. When we were last considering this Legislation Amendment Bill. When we were last considering this bill, Legislation Amendment Bill. When we were last considering this bill, we were last considering this bill, we were were last considering this bill, we were debating were last considering this bill, we were debating Part were last considering this bill, we were debating Part 5. were last considering this bill, we were debating Part 5. Part were last considering this bill, we were debating Part 5. Part 5 were last considering this bill, we were debating Part 5. Part 5 is were last considering this bill, we were debating Part 5. Part 5 is the were debating Part 5. Part 5 is the debate were debating Part 5. Part 5 is the debate on were debating Part 5. Part 5 is the debate on Clauses were debating Part 5. Part 5 is the debate on Clauses 36 were debating Part 5. Part 5 is the debate on Clauses 36 to were debating Part 5. Part 5 is the debate on Clauses 36 to 38, debate on Clauses 36 to 38, amendments debate on Clauses 36 to 38, amendments to debate on Clauses 36 to 38, amendments to Sentencing debate on Clauses 36 to 38, amendments to Sentencing Act debate on Clauses 36 to 38, amendments to Sentencing Act 2002 amendments to Sentencing Act 2002 and amendments to Sentencing Act 2002 and schedule amendments to Sentencing Act 2002 and schedule 4. amendments to Sentencing Act 2002 and schedule 4. The amendments to Sentencing Act 2002 and schedule 4. The question amendments to Sentencing Act 2002 and schedule 4. The question again and schedule 4. The question again is and schedule 4. The question again is that and schedule 4. The question again is that Part Thank Thank you, Thank you, Madam Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Madam Chair. I Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to first Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to first pick Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to first pick up Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to first pick up part Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to first pick up part of Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to first pick up part of my first pick up part of my contribution first pick up part of my contribution in first pick up part of my contribution in the first pick up part of my contribution in the previous first pick up part of my contribution in the previous session contribution in the previous session around contribution in the previous session around this, contribution in the previous session around this, which contribution in the previous session around this, which the contribution in the previous session around this, which the Minister around this, which the Minister didn't around this, which the Minister didn't have around this, which the Minister didn't have the around this, which the Minister didn't have the opportunity around this, which the Minister didn't have the opportunity to didn't have the opportunity to clarify didn't have the opportunity to clarify around didn't have the opportunity to clarify around the didn't have the opportunity to clarify around the greater clarify around the greater implication clarify around the greater implication of clarify around the greater implication of Part clarify around the greater implication of Part 5 clarify around the greater implication of Part 5 by clarify around the greater implication of Part 5 by including implication of Part 5 by including gang implication of Part 5 by including gang affiliation implication of Part 5 by including gang affiliation as implication of Part 5 by including gang affiliation as part implication of Part 5 by including gang affiliation as part of gang affiliation as part of aggravating gang affiliation as part of aggravating factors gang affiliation as part of aggravating factors in gang affiliation as part of aggravating factors in Section gang affiliation as part of aggravating factors in Section 9 gang affiliation as part of aggravating factors in Section 9 of aggravating factors in Section 9 of the aggravating factors in Section 9 of the Sentencing aggravating factors in Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, aggravating factors in Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, particularly aggravating factors in Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, particularly in the Sentencing Act, particularly in terms the Sentencing Act, particularly in terms of the Sentencing Act, particularly in terms of the the Sentencing Act, particularly in terms of the interconnectivity the Sentencing Act, particularly in terms of the interconnectivity of terms of the interconnectivity of the terms of the interconnectivity of the Sentencing terms of the interconnectivity of the Sentencing Act terms of the interconnectivity of the Sentencing Act with terms of the interconnectivity of the Sentencing Act with the terms of the interconnectivity of the Sentencing Act with the Crimes the Sentencing Act with the Crimes Act, the Sentencing Act with the Crimes Act, and the Sentencing Act with the Crimes Act, and certain the Sentencing Act with the Crimes Act, and certain crimes the Sentencing Act with the Crimes Act, and certain crimes that the Sentencing Act with the Crimes Act, and certain crimes that may Act, and certain crimes that may have Act, and certain crimes that may have no Act, and certain crimes that may have no affiliation Act, and certain crimes that may have no affiliation or Act, and certain crimes that may have no affiliation or no Act, and certain crimes that may have no affiliation or no relations have no affiliation or no relations to have no affiliation or no relations to the have no affiliation or no relations to the gang have no affiliation or no relations to the gang affiliation have no affiliation or no relations to the gang affiliation being to the gang affiliation being unfortunately to the gang affiliation being unfortunately attached to the gang affiliation being unfortunately attached or to the gang affiliation being unfortunately attached or implicated unfortunately attached or implicated as unfortunately attached or implicated as a unfortunately attached or implicated as a result. unfortunately attached or implicated as a result. One unfortunately attached or implicated as a result. One of unfortunately attached or implicated as a result. One of the unfortunately attached or implicated as a result. One of the things unfortunately attached or implicated as a result. One of the things I as a result. One of the things I mentioned as a result. One of the things I mentioned as as a result. One of the things I mentioned as part as a result. One of the things I mentioned as part of as a result. One of the things I mentioned as part of that as a result. One of the things I mentioned as part of that just as a result. One of the things I mentioned as part of that just very mentioned as part of that just very briefly mentioned as part of that just very briefly was mentioned as part of that just very briefly was on mentioned as part of that just very briefly was on Section mentioned as part of that just very briefly was on Section 220 mentioned as part of that just very briefly was on Section 220 in mentioned as part of that just very briefly was on Section 220 in terms briefly was on Section 220 in terms of briefly was on Section 220 in terms of theft briefly was on Section 220 in terms of theft in briefly was on Section 220 in terms of theft in a briefly was on Section 220 in terms of theft in a special briefly was on Section 220 in terms of theft in a special relationship. of theft in a special relationship. And of theft in a special relationship. And the of theft in a special relationship. And the other of theft in a special relationship. And the other thing of theft in a special relationship. And the other thing I of theft in a special relationship. And the other thing I mentioned And the other thing I mentioned around And the other thing I mentioned around that And the other thing I mentioned around that is And the other thing I mentioned around that is around And the other thing I mentioned around that is around Section And the other thing I mentioned around that is around Section 66 And the other thing I mentioned around that is around Section 66 in around that is around Section 66 in terms around that is around Section 66 in terms of around that is around Section 66 in terms of Pakeha around that is around Section 66 in terms of Pakeha liability. around that is around Section 66 in terms of Pakeha liability. I around that is around Section 66 in terms of Pakeha liability. I -- terms of Pakeha liability. I -- party terms of Pakeha liability. I -- party liability. terms of Pakeha liability. I -- party liability. I terms of Pakeha liability. I -- party liability. I wanted terms of Pakeha liability. I -- party liability. I wanted to terms of Pakeha liability. I -- party liability. I wanted to expand party liability. I wanted to expand on party liability. I wanted to expand on party party liability. I wanted to expand on party liability party liability. I wanted to expand on party liability first, party liability. I wanted to expand on party liability first, which party liability. I wanted to expand on party liability first, which is on party liability first, which is around on party liability first, which is around some on party liability first, which is around some of on party liability first, which is around some of the on party liability first, which is around some of the instances on party liability first, which is around some of the instances we've around some of the instances we've seen around some of the instances we've seen previously around some of the instances we've seen previously when around some of the instances we've seen previously when people, around some of the instances we've seen previously when people, in around some of the instances we've seen previously when people, in this seen previously when people, in this case, seen previously when people, in this case, were seen previously when people, in this case, were looking seen previously when people, in this case, were looking at seen previously when people, in this case, were looking at potentially case, were looking at potentially the case, were looking at potentially the unfair case, were looking at potentially the unfair treatment case, were looking at potentially the unfair treatment of case, were looking at potentially the unfair treatment of Wahine case, were looking at potentially the unfair treatment of Wahine Maori the unfair treatment of Wahine Maori in the unfair treatment of Wahine Maori in this the unfair treatment of Wahine Maori in this particular the unfair treatment of Wahine Maori in this particular legislation. in this particular legislation. Because in this particular legislation. Because if in this particular legislation. Because if we're in this particular legislation. Because if we're looking in this particular legislation. Because if we're looking at in this particular legislation. Because if we're looking at cases Because if we're looking at cases such Because if we're looking at cases such as Because if we're looking at cases such as the Because if we're looking at cases such as the Axon Because if we're looking at cases such as the Axon and Because if we're looking at cases such as the Axon and Crown Because if we're looking at cases such as the Axon and Crown case Because if we're looking at cases such as the Axon and Crown case in such as the Axon and Crown case in 2014, such as the Axon and Crown case in 2014, where such as the Axon and Crown case in 2014, where Wahine such as the Axon and Crown case in 2014, where Wahine Maori such as the Axon and Crown case in 2014, where Wahine Maori have such as the Axon and Crown case in 2014, where Wahine Maori have been 2014, where Wahine Maori have been made 2014, where Wahine Maori have been made accessory 2014, where Wahine Maori have been made accessory to 2014, where Wahine Maori have been made accessory to certain 2014, where Wahine Maori have been made accessory to certain acts 2014, where Wahine Maori have been made accessory to certain acts that made accessory to certain acts that have made accessory to certain acts that have been made accessory to certain acts that have been done made accessory to certain acts that have been done to made accessory to certain acts that have been done to their made accessory to certain acts that have been done to their spouses made accessory to certain acts that have been done to their spouses - made accessory to certain acts that have been done to their spouses - in have been done to their spouses - in these have been done to their spouses - in these particular have been done to their spouses - in these particular cases have been done to their spouses - in these particular cases like have been done to their spouses - in these particular cases like that, these particular cases like that, under these particular cases like that, under the these particular cases like that, under the requirement these particular cases like that, under the requirement and under the requirement and interpretation under the requirement and interpretation of under the requirement and interpretation of Section under the requirement and interpretation of Section 66 under the requirement and interpretation of Section 66 of under the requirement and interpretation of Section 66 of the interpretation of Section 66 of the Crimes interpretation of Section 66 of the Crimes Act, interpretation of Section 66 of the Crimes Act, they interpretation of Section 66 of the Crimes Act, they are interpretation of Section 66 of the Crimes Act, they are liable interpretation of Section 66 of the Crimes Act, they are liable for interpretation of Section 66 of the Crimes Act, they are liable for the Crimes Act, they are liable for the crime Crimes Act, they are liable for the crime as Crimes Act, they are liable for the crime as well Crimes Act, they are liable for the crime as well under Crimes Act, they are liable for the crime as well under party Crimes Act, they are liable for the crime as well under party liability. crime as well under party liability. In crime as well under party liability. In this crime as well under party liability. In this particular crime as well under party liability. In this particular case, crime as well under party liability. In this particular case, what crime as well under party liability. In this particular case, what you In this particular case, what you will In this particular case, what you will see In this particular case, what you will see is In this particular case, what you will see is that, In this particular case, what you will see is that, Wahine In this particular case, what you will see is that, Wahine Maori, will see is that, Wahine Maori, because will see is that, Wahine Maori, because of will see is that, Wahine Maori, because of the will see is that, Wahine Maori, because of the aggravating will see is that, Wahine Maori, because of the aggravating factor because of the aggravating factor that because of the aggravating factor that will because of the aggravating factor that will be because of the aggravating factor that will be introduced because of the aggravating factor that will be introduced because because of the aggravating factor that will be introduced because of that will be introduced because of Section that will be introduced because of Section 9 that will be introduced because of Section 9 of that will be introduced because of Section 9 of the that will be introduced because of Section 9 of the Sentencing that will be introduced because of Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, Wahine Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, Wahine Maori Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, Wahine Maori may Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, Wahine Maori may be Section 9 of the Sentencing Act, Wahine Maori may be unfairly Wahine Maori may be unfairly targeted Wahine Maori may be unfairly targeted as Wahine Maori may be unfairly targeted as a Wahine Maori may be unfairly targeted as a result Wahine Maori may be unfairly targeted as a result of Wahine Maori may be unfairly targeted as a result of this. Wahine Maori may be unfairly targeted as a result of this. I targeted as a result of this. I wanted targeted as a result of this. I wanted some targeted as a result of this. I wanted some clarification targeted as a result of this. I wanted some clarification from targeted as a result of this. I wanted some clarification from the wanted some clarification from the Minister wanted some clarification from the Minister and wanted some clarification from the Minister and officials wanted some clarification from the Minister and officials on wanted some clarification from the Minister and officials on whether Minister and officials on whether any Minister and officials on whether any modelling Minister and officials on whether any modelling was Minister and officials on whether any modelling was done Minister and officials on whether any modelling was done on Minister and officials on whether any modelling was done on the any modelling was done on the potential any modelling was done on the potential to any modelling was done on the potential to increase any modelling was done on the potential to increase the any modelling was done on the potential to increase the terms any modelling was done on the potential to increase the terms of potential to increase the terms of the potential to increase the terms of the sentencing potential to increase the terms of the sentencing and potential to increase the terms of the sentencing and also potential to increase the terms of the sentencing and also increasing the sentencing and also increasing the the sentencing and also increasing the chance the sentencing and also increasing the chance of the sentencing and also increasing the chance of Wahine the sentencing and also increasing the chance of Wahine Maori the sentencing and also increasing the chance of Wahine Maori in the sentencing and also increasing the chance of Wahine Maori in our the chance of Wahine Maori in our prison the chance of Wahine Maori in our prison system the chance of Wahine Maori in our prison system as the chance of Wahine Maori in our prison system as a the chance of Wahine Maori in our prison system as a result the chance of Wahine Maori in our prison system as a result of the chance of Wahine Maori in our prison system as a result of this prison system as a result of this introduction. prison system as a result of this introduction. This prison system as a result of this introduction. This is prison system as a result of this introduction. This is particularly introduction. This is particularly important introduction. This is particularly important since, introduction. This is particularly important since, for introduction. This is particularly important since, for the introduction. This is particularly important since, for the longest important since, for the longest time, important since, for the longest time, we important since, for the longest time, we have important since, for the longest time, we have been important since, for the longest time, we have been talking important since, for the longest time, we have been talking about important since, for the longest time, we have been talking about in time, we have been talking about in this time, we have been talking about in this House time, we have been talking about in this House on time, we have been talking about in this House on the time, we have been talking about in this House on the fact time, we have been talking about in this House on the fact that time, we have been talking about in this House on the fact that Maori this House on the fact that Maori and this House on the fact that Maori and Pasifika, this House on the fact that Maori and Pasifika, Wahine this House on the fact that Maori and Pasifika, Wahine Maori this House on the fact that Maori and Pasifika, Wahine Maori and and Pasifika, Wahine Maori and Pasifika and Pasifika, Wahine Maori and Pasifika women and Pasifika, Wahine Maori and Pasifika women have and Pasifika, Wahine Maori and Pasifika women have been and Pasifika, Wahine Maori and Pasifika women have been unfairly Pasifika women have been unfairly represented Pasifika women have been unfairly represented in Pasifika women have been unfairly represented in our Pasifika women have been unfairly represented in our prison Pasifika women have been unfairly represented in our prison system. Pasifika women have been unfairly represented in our prison system. So represented in our prison system. So I represented in our prison system. So I would represented in our prison system. So I would like represented in our prison system. So I would like some represented in our prison system. So I would like some clarification represented in our prison system. So I would like some clarification from I would like some clarification from the I would like some clarification from the Minister I would like some clarification from the Minister regarding I would like some clarification from the Minister regarding that. I would like some clarification from the Minister regarding that. The the Minister regarding that. The second the Minister regarding that. The second part the Minister regarding that. The second part that's the Minister regarding that. The second part that's also the Minister regarding that. The second part that's also a second part that's also a consideration second part that's also a consideration to second part that's also a consideration to this second part that's also a consideration to this is second part that's also a consideration to this is I second part that's also a consideration to this is I would consideration to this is I would really consideration to this is I would really like consideration to this is I would really like the consideration to this is I would really like the Minister consideration to this is I would really like the Minister to consideration to this is I would really like the Minister to clarify really like the Minister to clarify or really like the Minister to clarify or consider really like the Minister to clarify or consider another really like the Minister to clarify or consider another scenario really like the Minister to clarify or consider another scenario that or consider another scenario that may or consider another scenario that may also or consider another scenario that may also be or consider another scenario that may also be unfairly or consider another scenario that may also be unfairly -- or consider another scenario that may also be unfairly -- where or consider another scenario that may also be unfairly -- where gang may also be unfairly -- where gang affiliation may also be unfairly -- where gang affiliation may may also be unfairly -- where gang affiliation may be may also be unfairly -- where gang affiliation may be unfairly may also be unfairly -- where gang affiliation may be unfairly treated affiliation may be unfairly treated if affiliation may be unfairly treated if it's affiliation may be unfairly treated if it's included affiliation may be unfairly treated if it's included as affiliation may be unfairly treated if it's included as an affiliation may be unfairly treated if it's included as an aggravating if it's included as an aggravating factor. if it's included as an aggravating factor. That if it's included as an aggravating factor. That is if it's included as an aggravating factor. That is more if it's included as an aggravating factor. That is more looking if it's included as an aggravating factor. That is more looking at factor. That is more looking at Section factor. That is more looking at Section 201 factor. That is more looking at Section 201 of factor. That is more looking at Section 201 of the factor. That is more looking at Section 201 of the Crimes factor. That is more looking at Section 201 of the Crimes Act Section 201 of the Crimes Act regarding Section 201 of the Crimes Act regarding infecting Section 201 of the Crimes Act regarding infecting with Section 201 of the Crimes Act regarding infecting with disease. regarding infecting with disease. This regarding infecting with disease. This is regarding infecting with disease. This is looking regarding infecting with disease. This is looking at regarding infecting with disease. This is looking at a regarding infecting with disease. This is looking at a particular This is looking at a particular Crown This is looking at a particular Crown case This is looking at a particular Crown case in This is looking at a particular Crown case in 1995 This is looking at a particular Crown case in 1995 where This is looking at a particular Crown case in 1995 where we This is looking at a particular Crown case in 1995 where we were Crown case in 1995 where we were looking Crown case in 1995 where we were looking at Crown case in 1995 where we were looking at people Crown case in 1995 where we were looking at people who Crown case in 1995 where we were looking at people who either looking at people who either intentionally looking at people who either intentionally or, looking at people who either intentionally or, if looking at people who either intentionally or, if we're looking at people who either intentionally or, if we're looking intentionally or, if we're looking at intentionally or, if we're looking at it intentionally or, if we're looking at it more intentionally or, if we're looking at it more broadly intentionally or, if we're looking at it more broadly under intentionally or, if we're looking at it more broadly under a intentionally or, if we're looking at it more broadly under a bridge intentionally or, if we're looking at it more broadly under a bridge of at it more broadly under a bridge of criminal at it more broadly under a bridge of criminal nuisance at it more broadly under a bridge of criminal nuisance in at it more broadly under a bridge of criminal nuisance in Section at it more broadly under a bridge of criminal nuisance in Section 145, criminal nuisance in Section 145, which criminal nuisance in Section 145, which is criminal nuisance in Section 145, which is a criminal nuisance in Section 145, which is a breach criminal nuisance in Section 145, which is a breach of criminal nuisance in Section 145, which is a breach of Section criminal nuisance in Section 145, which is a breach of Section 156 criminal nuisance in Section 145, which is a breach of Section 156 of which is a breach of Section 156 of the which is a breach of Section 156 of the Crimes which is a breach of Section 156 of the Crimes Act, which is a breach of Section 156 of the Crimes Act, which which is a breach of Section 156 of the Crimes Act, which it which is a breach of Section 156 of the Crimes Act, which it is which is a breach of Section 156 of the Crimes Act, which it is duty which is a breach of Section 156 of the Crimes Act, which it is duty of the Crimes Act, which it is duty of persons the Crimes Act, which it is duty of persons in the Crimes Act, which it is duty of persons in charge the Crimes Act, which it is duty of persons in charge of the Crimes Act, which it is duty of persons in charge of dangerous persons in charge of dangerous things. persons in charge of dangerous things. When persons in charge of dangerous things. When a persons in charge of dangerous things. When a person persons in charge of dangerous things. When a person intentionally things. When a person intentionally or things. When a person intentionally or accidentally, things. When a person intentionally or accidentally, let's things. When a person intentionally or accidentally, let's say, things. When a person intentionally or accidentally, let's say, infects or accidentally, let's say, infects someone or accidentally, let's say, infects someone with or accidentally, let's say, infects someone with a or accidentally, let's say, infects someone with a sexually or accidentally, let's say, infects someone with a sexually transmitted someone with a sexually transmitted disease someone with a sexually transmitted disease - someone with a sexually transmitted disease - again, someone with a sexually transmitted disease - again, those someone with a sexually transmitted disease - again, those kind someone with a sexually transmitted disease - again, those kind of disease - again, those kind of things disease - again, those kind of things are disease - again, those kind of things are criminally disease - again, those kind of things are criminally liable disease - again, those kind of things are criminally liable and things are criminally liable and people things are criminally liable and people can things are criminally liable and people can be things are criminally liable and people can be criminally things are criminally liable and people can be criminally charged, people can be criminally charged, but people can be criminally charged, but the people can be criminally charged, but the gang people can be criminally charged, but the gang affiliation people can be criminally charged, but the gang affiliation is people can be criminally charged, but the gang affiliation is a people can be criminally charged, but the gang affiliation is a bit people can be criminally charged, but the gang affiliation is a bit of but the gang affiliation is a bit of a but the gang affiliation is a bit of a stretch but the gang affiliation is a bit of a stretch in but the gang affiliation is a bit of a stretch in terms but the gang affiliation is a bit of a stretch in terms of but the gang affiliation is a bit of a stretch in terms of having but the gang affiliation is a bit of a stretch in terms of having that a stretch in terms of having that being a stretch in terms of having that being an a stretch in terms of having that being an aggravating a stretch in terms of having that being an aggravating factor a stretch in terms of having that being an aggravating factor in being an aggravating factor in Section being an aggravating factor in Section 9 being an aggravating factor in Section 9 of being an aggravating factor in Section 9 of the being an aggravating factor in Section 9 of the Sentencing being an aggravating factor in Section 9 of the Sentencing Act. Section 9 of the Sentencing Act. With Section 9 of the Sentencing Act. With all Section 9 of the Sentencing Act. With all of Section 9 of the Sentencing Act. With all of these Section 9 of the Sentencing Act. With all of these scenarios, Section 9 of the Sentencing Act. With all of these scenarios, these With all of these scenarios, these are With all of these scenarios, these are scenarios With all of these scenarios, these are scenarios that With all of these scenarios, these are scenarios that have With all of these scenarios, these are scenarios that have happened, are scenarios that have happened, Madam are scenarios that have happened, Madam Chair, are scenarios that have happened, Madam Chair, in are scenarios that have happened, Madam Chair, in Aotearoa are scenarios that have happened, Madam Chair, in Aotearoa New Madam Chair, in Aotearoa New Zealand. Madam Chair, in Aotearoa New Zealand. So Madam Chair, in Aotearoa New Zealand. So these Madam Chair, in Aotearoa New Zealand. So these are Madam Chair, in Aotearoa New Zealand. So these are not Madam Chair, in Aotearoa New Zealand. So these are not things Zealand. So these are not things that Zealand. So these are not things that are Zealand. So these are not things that are just Zealand. So these are not things that are just hypothetical. Zealand. So these are not things that are just hypothetical. These that are just hypothetical. These are that are just hypothetical. These are actual that are just hypothetical. These are actual cases. that are just hypothetical. These are actual cases. And that are just hypothetical. These are actual cases. And so that are just hypothetical. These are actual cases. And so with that are just hypothetical. These are actual cases. And so with we that are just hypothetical. These are actual cases. And so with we are are actual cases. And so with we are looking are actual cases. And so with we are looking at are actual cases. And so with we are looking at these are actual cases. And so with we are looking at these - are actual cases. And so with we are looking at these - what are actual cases. And so with we are looking at these - what is are actual cases. And so with we are looking at these - what is the looking at these - what is the Minister's looking at these - what is the Minister's consideration looking at these - what is the Minister's consideration in looking at these - what is the Minister's consideration in terms looking at these - what is the Minister's consideration in terms of Minister's consideration in terms of the Minister's consideration in terms of the potential Minister's consideration in terms of the potential increase Minister's consideration in terms of the potential increase and Minister's consideration in terms of the potential increase and unfair the potential increase and unfair treatment the potential increase and unfair treatment of the potential increase and unfair treatment of gang the potential increase and unfair treatment of gang members the potential increase and unfair treatment of gang members or the potential increase and unfair treatment of gang members or those treatment of gang members or those who treatment of gang members or those who are treatment of gang members or those who are affiliated treatment of gang members or those who are affiliated with treatment of gang members or those who are affiliated with gangs treatment of gang members or those who are affiliated with gangs when who are affiliated with gangs when the who are affiliated with gangs when the crime who are affiliated with gangs when the crime itself who are affiliated with gangs when the crime itself actually who are affiliated with gangs when the crime itself actually has who are affiliated with gangs when the crime itself actually has very the crime itself actually has very little the crime itself actually has very little to the crime itself actually has very little to do the crime itself actually has very little to do with the crime itself actually has very little to do with gang the crime itself actually has very little to do with gang affiliation. little to do with gang affiliation. So little to do with gang affiliation. So if little to do with gang affiliation. So if the little to do with gang affiliation. So if the Minister little to do with gang affiliation. So if the Minister wouldn't little to do with gang affiliation. So if the Minister wouldn't mind So if the Minister wouldn't mind clarifying So if the Minister wouldn't mind clarifying - So if the Minister wouldn't mind clarifying - that So if the Minister wouldn't mind clarifying - that is So if the Minister wouldn't mind clarifying - that is Section So if the Minister wouldn't mind clarifying - that is Section 220, clarifying - that is Section 220, theft clarifying - that is Section 220, theft in clarifying - that is Section 220, theft in special clarifying - that is Section 220, theft in special relationships. theft in special relationships. Section theft in special relationships. Section 6 theft in special relationships. Section 6 of theft in special relationships. Section 6 of the theft in special relationships. Section 6 of the Crimes theft in special relationships. Section 6 of the Crimes Act, theft in special relationships. Section 6 of the Crimes Act, and Section 6 of the Crimes Act, and Section Section 6 of the Crimes Act, and Section 201 Section 6 of the Crimes Act, and Section 201 - Section 6 of the Crimes Act, and Section 201 - infecting Section 6 of the Crimes Act, and Section 201 - infecting with Section 201 - infecting with disease. Section 201 - infecting with disease. And Section 201 - infecting with disease. And should Section 201 - infecting with disease. And should the Section 201 - infecting with disease. And should the Minister disease. And should the Minister also disease. And should the Minister also wish disease. And should the Minister also wish to disease. And should the Minister also wish to respond, disease. And should the Minister also wish to respond, Section disease. And should the Minister also wish to respond, Section 145 also wish to respond, Section 145 under also wish to respond, Section 145 under criminal also wish to respond, Section 145 under criminal nuisance. also wish to respond, Section 145 under criminal nuisance. Thank also wish to respond, Section 145 under criminal nuisance. Thank you. under criminal nuisance. Thank you. The under criminal nuisance. Thank you. The Hon under criminal nuisance. Thank you. The Hon Chris under criminal nuisance. Thank you. The Hon Chris Penk. under criminal nuisance. Thank you. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank under criminal nuisance. Thank you. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you under criminal nuisance. Thank you. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I thank the much, Madam Chair. I thank the member much, Madam Chair. I thank the member for much, Madam Chair. I thank the member for his much, Madam Chair. I thank the member for his intelligent much, Madam Chair. I thank the member for his intelligent and member for his intelligent and articulate member for his intelligent and articulate contribution. member for his intelligent and articulate contribution. I member for his intelligent and articulate contribution. I think member for his intelligent and articulate contribution. I think the articulate contribution. I think the two articulate contribution. I think the two different articulate contribution. I think the two different legs articulate contribution. I think the two different legs of articulate contribution. I think the two different legs of his articulate contribution. I think the two different legs of his questions two different legs of his questions can two different legs of his questions can be two different legs of his questions can be answered two different legs of his questions can be answered substantially two different legs of his questions can be answered substantially in two different legs of his questions can be answered substantially in the can be answered substantially in the same can be answered substantially in the same way. can be answered substantially in the same way. Taking can be answered substantially in the same way. Taking the can be answered substantially in the same way. Taking the second can be answered substantially in the same way. Taking the second one same way. Taking the second one first same way. Taking the second one first around same way. Taking the second one first around those same way. Taking the second one first around those different first around those different provisions first around those different provisions within first around those different provisions within our first around those different provisions within our criminal first around those different provisions within our criminal law provisions within our criminal law that provisions within our criminal law that he provisions within our criminal law that he says provisions within our criminal law that he says may provisions within our criminal law that he says may be provisions within our criminal law that he says may be unlikely provisions within our criminal law that he says may be unlikely to provisions within our criminal law that he says may be unlikely to be that he says may be unlikely to be connected that he says may be unlikely to be connected with that he says may be unlikely to be connected with the that he says may be unlikely to be connected with the fact that he says may be unlikely to be connected with the fact of that he says may be unlikely to be connected with the fact of gang connected with the fact of gang membership connected with the fact of gang membership - connected with the fact of gang membership - I connected with the fact of gang membership - I think connected with the fact of gang membership - I think that connected with the fact of gang membership - I think that the membership - I think that the Government's membership - I think that the Government's view membership - I think that the Government's view is membership - I think that the Government's view is that membership - I think that the Government's view is that it's Government's view is that it's appropriate Government's view is that it's appropriate for Government's view is that it's appropriate for the Government's view is that it's appropriate for the judge Government's view is that it's appropriate for the judge not Government's view is that it's appropriate for the judge not to Government's view is that it's appropriate for the judge not to be appropriate for the judge not to be unduly appropriate for the judge not to be unduly limited appropriate for the judge not to be unduly limited in appropriate for the judge not to be unduly limited in deciding appropriate for the judge not to be unduly limited in deciding that unduly limited in deciding that extent unduly limited in deciding that extent of unduly limited in deciding that extent of connection unduly limited in deciding that extent of connection when unduly limited in deciding that extent of connection when she unduly limited in deciding that extent of connection when she or unduly limited in deciding that extent of connection when she or he extent of connection when she or he is extent of connection when she or he is making extent of connection when she or he is making that extent of connection when she or he is making that decision. extent of connection when she or he is making that decision. And extent of connection when she or he is making that decision. And of is making that decision. And of course, is making that decision. And of course, in is making that decision. And of course, in relation is making that decision. And of course, in relation to is making that decision. And of course, in relation to the is making that decision. And of course, in relation to the first course, in relation to the first point, course, in relation to the first point, that course, in relation to the first point, that applies course, in relation to the first point, that applies equally, course, in relation to the first point, that applies equally, where point, that applies equally, where we point, that applies equally, where we say point, that applies equally, where we say that, point, that applies equally, where we say that, in point, that applies equally, where we say that, in relation point, that applies equally, where we say that, in relation to point, that applies equally, where we say that, in relation to the we say that, in relation to the proposal we say that, in relation to the proposal that we say that, in relation to the proposal that Wahine we say that, in relation to the proposal that Wahine Maori we say that, in relation to the proposal that Wahine Maori might we say that, in relation to the proposal that Wahine Maori might be proposal that Wahine Maori might be disproportionately proposal that Wahine Maori might be disproportionately affected, proposal that Wahine Maori might be disproportionately affected, of disproportionately affected, of course disproportionately affected, of course the disproportionately affected, of course the member disproportionately affected, of course the member is disproportionately affected, of course the member is right disproportionately affected, of course the member is right to disproportionately affected, of course the member is right to raise course the member is right to raise an course the member is right to raise an important course the member is right to raise an important question course the member is right to raise an important question for course the member is right to raise an important question for our an important question for our society an important question for our society - an important question for our society - and, an important question for our society - and, indeed, an important question for our society - and, indeed, our an important question for our society - and, indeed, our criminal society - and, indeed, our criminal justice society - and, indeed, our criminal justice system society - and, indeed, our criminal justice system more society - and, indeed, our criminal justice system more generally society - and, indeed, our criminal justice system more generally - society - and, indeed, our criminal justice system more generally - but justice system more generally - but at justice system more generally - but at an justice system more generally - but at an individual justice system more generally - but at an individual case justice system more generally - but at an individual case level, justice system more generally - but at an individual case level, the at an individual case level, the principle at an individual case level, the principle of at an individual case level, the principle of equality at an individual case level, the principle of equality before at an individual case level, the principle of equality before the at an individual case level, the principle of equality before the law principle of equality before the law as principle of equality before the law as a principle of equality before the law as a key principle of equality before the law as a key aspect principle of equality before the law as a key aspect of principle of equality before the law as a key aspect of the principle of equality before the law as a key aspect of the rule principle of equality before the law as a key aspect of the rule of principle of equality before the law as a key aspect of the rule of law as a key aspect of the rule of law is as a key aspect of the rule of law is such as a key aspect of the rule of law is such that as a key aspect of the rule of law is such that these as a key aspect of the rule of law is such that these demographic is such that these demographic factors is such that these demographic factors should is such that these demographic factors should not is such that these demographic factors should not be is such that these demographic factors should not be taken is such that these demographic factors should not be taken into factors should not be taken into account factors should not be taken into account by factors should not be taken into account by the factors should not be taken into account by the judge factors should not be taken into account by the judge when factors should not be taken into account by the judge when making factors should not be taken into account by the judge when making a account by the judge when making a decision account by the judge when making a decision on account by the judge when making a decision on these account by the judge when making a decision on these matters account by the judge when making a decision on these matters at decision on these matters at sentencing. decision on these matters at sentencing. Hon decision on these matters at sentencing. Hon Dr decision on these matters at sentencing. Hon Dr Duncan decision on these matters at sentencing. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. sentencing. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank sentencing. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you. sentencing. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you. And sentencing. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you. And thanks sentencing. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you. And thanks to sentencing. Hon Dr Duncan Webb. Thank you. And thanks to the Thank you. And thanks to the Minister Thank you. And thanks to the Minister for Thank you. And thanks to the Minister for those Thank you. And thanks to the Minister for those comments. Thank you. And thanks to the Minister for those comments. One Minister for those comments. One thing Minister for those comments. One thing that Minister for those comments. One thing that springs Minister for those comments. One thing that springs to Minister for those comments. One thing that springs to mind thing that springs to mind immediately thing that springs to mind immediately from thing that springs to mind immediately from those thing that springs to mind immediately from those comments thing that springs to mind immediately from those comments - immediately from those comments - and immediately from those comments - and I immediately from those comments - and I think immediately from those comments - and I think it immediately from those comments - and I think it was immediately from those comments - and I think it was actually immediately from those comments - and I think it was actually quite immediately from those comments - and I think it was actually quite an and I think it was actually quite an important and I think it was actually quite an important one and I think it was actually quite an important one - and I think it was actually quite an important one - is and I think it was actually quite an important one - is it and I think it was actually quite an important one - is it the important one - is it the Government's important one - is it the Government's intention important one - is it the Government's intention with important one - is it the Government's intention with the Government's intention with the amendment Government's intention with the amendment to Government's intention with the amendment to the Government's intention with the amendment to the Sentencing Government's intention with the amendment to the Sentencing Act Government's intention with the amendment to the Sentencing Act that amendment to the Sentencing Act that the amendment to the Sentencing Act that the more amendment to the Sentencing Act that the more closely amendment to the Sentencing Act that the more closely connected amendment to the Sentencing Act that the more closely connected to amendment to the Sentencing Act that the more closely connected to gang the more closely connected to gang membership the more closely connected to gang membership the the more closely connected to gang membership the crime the more closely connected to gang membership the crime is, the more closely connected to gang membership the crime is, the the more closely connected to gang membership the crime is, the more membership the crime is, the more aggravating membership the crime is, the more aggravating the membership the crime is, the more aggravating the factor membership the crime is, the more aggravating the factor is? membership the crime is, the more aggravating the factor is? So, membership the crime is, the more aggravating the factor is? So, if aggravating the factor is? So, if you've aggravating the factor is? So, if you've got aggravating the factor is? So, if you've got a aggravating the factor is? So, if you've got a group aggravating the factor is? So, if you've got a group of aggravating the factor is? So, if you've got a group of gang aggravating the factor is? So, if you've got a group of gang members you've got a group of gang members engaged you've got a group of gang members engaged in you've got a group of gang members engaged in a you've got a group of gang members engaged in a burglary, you've got a group of gang members engaged in a burglary, then you've got a group of gang members engaged in a burglary, then that's you've got a group of gang members engaged in a burglary, then that's a engaged in a burglary, then that's a gang engaged in a burglary, then that's a gang crime. engaged in a burglary, then that's a gang crime. If engaged in a burglary, then that's a gang crime. If you've engaged in a burglary, then that's a gang crime. If you've got engaged in a burglary, then that's a gang crime. If you've got a engaged in a burglary, then that's a gang crime. If you've got a gang gang crime. If you've got a gang member gang crime. If you've got a gang member who's gang crime. If you've got a gang member who's carelessly gang crime. If you've got a gang member who's carelessly used gang crime. If you've got a gang member who's carelessly used a gang crime. If you've got a gang member who's carelessly used a motor member who's carelessly used a motor vehicle, member who's carelessly used a motor vehicle, it's member who's carelessly used a motor vehicle, it's not member who's carelessly used a motor vehicle, it's not a member who's carelessly used a motor vehicle, it's not a gang member who's carelessly used a motor vehicle, it's not a gang crime. member who's carelessly used a motor vehicle, it's not a gang crime. In vehicle, it's not a gang crime. In terms vehicle, it's not a gang crime. In terms of vehicle, it's not a gang crime. In terms of how vehicle, it's not a gang crime. In terms of how aggravating vehicle, it's not a gang crime. In terms of how aggravating gang terms of how aggravating gang membership terms of how aggravating gang membership is, terms of how aggravating gang membership is, would terms of how aggravating gang membership is, would it terms of how aggravating gang membership is, would it be terms of how aggravating gang membership is, would it be fair terms of how aggravating gang membership is, would it be fair to membership is, would it be fair to say membership is, would it be fair to say - membership is, would it be fair to say - the membership is, would it be fair to say - the more membership is, would it be fair to say - the more of membership is, would it be fair to say - the more of a membership is, would it be fair to say - the more of a gang membership is, would it be fair to say - the more of a gang crime membership is, would it be fair to say - the more of a gang crime it say - the more of a gang crime it is, say - the more of a gang crime it is, the say - the more of a gang crime it is, the more say - the more of a gang crime it is, the more aggravating say - the more of a gang crime it is, the more aggravating it say - the more of a gang crime it is, the more aggravating it is? is, the more aggravating it is? That's is, the more aggravating it is? That's my is, the more aggravating it is? That's my first is, the more aggravating it is? That's my first question. is, the more aggravating it is? That's my first question. My is, the more aggravating it is? That's my first question. My second That's my first question. My second question That's my first question. My second question is That's my first question. My second question is one That's my first question. My second question is one I That's my first question. My second question is one I actually That's my first question. My second question is one I actually hope That's my first question. My second question is one I actually hope the question is one I actually hope the Minister question is one I actually hope the Minister will question is one I actually hope the Minister will take question is one I actually hope the Minister will take a question is one I actually hope the Minister will take a real question is one I actually hope the Minister will take a real interest Minister will take a real interest in Minister will take a real interest in and Minister will take a real interest in and might Minister will take a real interest in and might have Minister will take a real interest in and might have some Minister will take a real interest in and might have some instructions in and might have some instructions on. in and might have some instructions on. That's in and might have some instructions on. That's on in and might have some instructions on. That's on the in and might have some instructions on. That's on the retrospectivity on. That's on the retrospectivity nature on. That's on the retrospectivity nature of on. That's on the retrospectivity nature of Clause on. That's on the retrospectivity nature of Clause 17 on. That's on the retrospectivity nature of Clause 17 of on. That's on the retrospectivity nature of Clause 17 of Schedule on. That's on the retrospectivity nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, which nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, which is nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, which is the nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, which is the very nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, which is the very last nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, which is the very last thing nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, which is the very last thing in nature of Clause 17 of Schedule 4, which is the very last thing in the which is the very last thing in the Act. which is the very last thing in the Act. I which is the very last thing in the Act. I raised which is the very last thing in the Act. I raised this which is the very last thing in the Act. I raised this in which is the very last thing in the Act. I raised this in an which is the very last thing in the Act. I raised this in an earlier Act. I raised this in an earlier debate. Act. I raised this in an earlier debate. The Act. I raised this in an earlier debate. The Minister Act. I raised this in an earlier debate. The Minister didn't Act. I raised this in an earlier debate. The Minister didn't get Act. I raised this in an earlier debate. The Minister didn't get a debate. The Minister didn't get a chance debate. The Minister didn't get a chance to debate. The Minister didn't get a chance to respond debate. The Minister didn't get a chance to respond to debate. The Minister didn't get a chance to respond to it debate. The Minister didn't get a chance to respond to it whilst debate. The Minister didn't get a chance to respond to it whilst he chance to respond to it whilst he was chance to respond to it whilst he was there. chance to respond to it whilst he was there. This chance to respond to it whilst he was there. This is chance to respond to it whilst he was there. This is the chance to respond to it whilst he was there. This is the commencement was there. This is the commencement clause was there. This is the commencement clause for was there. This is the commencement clause for the was there. This is the commencement clause for the change was there. This is the commencement clause for the change to was there. This is the commencement clause for the change to the clause for the change to the Sentencing clause for the change to the Sentencing Act. clause for the change to the Sentencing Act. As clause for the change to the Sentencing Act. As it's clause for the change to the Sentencing Act. As it's drafted, clause for the change to the Sentencing Act. As it's drafted, it Sentencing Act. As it's drafted, it says Sentencing Act. As it's drafted, it says that Sentencing Act. As it's drafted, it says that this Sentencing Act. As it's drafted, it says that this amendment Sentencing Act. As it's drafted, it says that this amendment applies says that this amendment applies only says that this amendment applies only to says that this amendment applies only to proceedings says that this amendment applies only to proceedings commenced says that this amendment applies only to proceedings commenced on says that this amendment applies only to proceedings commenced on or only to proceedings commenced on or after only to proceedings commenced on or after the only to proceedings commenced on or after the commencement only to proceedings commenced on or after the commencement date. only to proceedings commenced on or after the commencement date. The after the commencement date. The difficulty after the commencement date. The difficulty with after the commencement date. The difficulty with that after the commencement date. The difficulty with that is after the commencement date. The difficulty with that is that after the commencement date. The difficulty with that is that the difficulty with that is that the offence difficulty with that is that the offence could difficulty with that is that the offence could have difficulty with that is that the offence could have been difficulty with that is that the offence could have been committed offence could have been committed two offence could have been committed two years offence could have been committed two years ago. offence could have been committed two years ago. And offence could have been committed two years ago. And the offence could have been committed two years ago. And the Bill offence could have been committed two years ago. And the Bill of two years ago. And the Bill of Rights two years ago. And the Bill of Rights Act two years ago. And the Bill of Rights Act provides two years ago. And the Bill of Rights Act provides that two years ago. And the Bill of Rights Act provides that a two years ago. And the Bill of Rights Act provides that a person two years ago. And the Bill of Rights Act provides that a person is Rights Act provides that a person is entitled Rights Act provides that a person is entitled to Rights Act provides that a person is entitled to be Rights Act provides that a person is entitled to be charged Rights Act provides that a person is entitled to be charged and Rights Act provides that a person is entitled to be charged and sentenced entitled to be charged and sentenced under entitled to be charged and sentenced under the entitled to be charged and sentenced under the law entitled to be charged and sentenced under the law as entitled to be charged and sentenced under the law as it entitled to be charged and sentenced under the law as it stood entitled to be charged and sentenced under the law as it stood at entitled to be charged and sentenced under the law as it stood at the under the law as it stood at the time under the law as it stood at the time that under the law as it stood at the time that the under the law as it stood at the time that the offence under the law as it stood at the time that the offence was under the law as it stood at the time that the offence was committed. time that the offence was committed. And time that the offence was committed. And this time that the offence was committed. And this actually time that the offence was committed. And this actually departs time that the offence was committed. And this actually departs from time that the offence was committed. And this actually departs from that. And this actually departs from that. My And this actually departs from that. My amendment And this actually departs from that. My amendment paper And this actually departs from that. My amendment paper solves And this actually departs from that. My amendment paper solves that And this actually departs from that. My amendment paper solves that by My amendment paper solves that by changing My amendment paper solves that by changing "proceedings My amendment paper solves that by changing "proceedings commenced" changing "proceedings commenced" with changing "proceedings commenced" with "offences changing "proceedings commenced" with "offences committed". changing "proceedings commenced" with "offences committed". It changing "proceedings commenced" with "offences committed". It may changing "proceedings commenced" with "offences committed". It may be with "offences committed". It may be that with "offences committed". It may be that the with "offences committed". It may be that the last with "offences committed". It may be that the last time with "offences committed". It may be that the last time - with "offences committed". It may be that the last time - one with "offences committed". It may be that the last time - one of with "offences committed". It may be that the last time - one of my with "offences committed". It may be that the last time - one of my other that the last time - one of my other amendment that the last time - one of my other amendment papers, that the last time - one of my other amendment papers, the that the last time - one of my other amendment papers, the Minister amendment papers, the Minister sneakily amendment papers, the Minister sneakily put amendment papers, the Minister sneakily put an amendment papers, the Minister sneakily put an amendment amendment papers, the Minister sneakily put an amendment paper amendment papers, the Minister sneakily put an amendment paper in sneakily put an amendment paper in as sneakily put an amendment paper in as well sneakily put an amendment paper in as well and sneakily put an amendment paper in as well and usurped sneakily put an amendment paper in as well and usurped me sneakily put an amendment paper in as well and usurped me there, sneakily put an amendment paper in as well and usurped me there, so sneakily put an amendment paper in as well and usurped me there, so it as well and usurped me there, so it may as well and usurped me there, so it may be as well and usurped me there, so it may be that as well and usurped me there, so it may be that that's as well and usurped me there, so it may be that that's going as well and usurped me there, so it may be that that's going to as well and usurped me there, so it may be that that's going to occur. may be that that's going to occur. But may be that that's going to occur. But I may be that that's going to occur. But I actually may be that that's going to occur. But I actually think may be that that's going to occur. But I actually think that's may be that that's going to occur. But I actually think that's quite may be that that's going to occur. But I actually think that's quite an But I actually think that's quite an important But I actually think that's quite an important one, But I actually think that's quite an important one, tucked But I actually think that's quite an important one, tucked away But I actually think that's quite an important one, tucked away in But I actually think that's quite an important one, tucked away in the important one, tucked away in the kind important one, tucked away in the kind of important one, tucked away in the kind of depths important one, tucked away in the kind of depths of important one, tucked away in the kind of depths of the important one, tucked away in the kind of depths of the Act. important one, tucked away in the kind of depths of the Act. But important one, tucked away in the kind of depths of the Act. But it kind of depths of the Act. But it does kind of depths of the Act. But it does strike kind of depths of the Act. But it does strike me kind of depths of the Act. But it does strike me as kind of depths of the Act. But it does strike me as a kind of depths of the Act. But it does strike me as a kind kind of depths of the Act. But it does strike me as a kind of does strike me as a kind of transgression does strike me as a kind of transgression of does strike me as a kind of transgression of the does strike me as a kind of transgression of the retrospectivity transgression of the retrospectivity principle, transgression of the retrospectivity principle, and transgression of the retrospectivity principle, and in transgression of the retrospectivity principle, and in quite transgression of the retrospectivity principle, and in quite an transgression of the retrospectivity principle, and in quite an important principle, and in quite an important way. principle, and in quite an important way. I'll principle, and in quite an important way. I'll stop principle, and in quite an important way. I'll stop there, principle, and in quite an important way. I'll stop there, because principle, and in quite an important way. I'll stop there, because I'm way. I'll stop there, because I'm hopeful way. I'll stop there, because I'm hopeful the way. I'll stop there, because I'm hopeful the Minister way. I'll stop there, because I'm hopeful the Minister will way. I'll stop there, because I'm hopeful the Minister will be way. I'll stop there, because I'm hopeful the Minister will be able way. I'll stop there, because I'm hopeful the Minister will be able to hopeful the Minister will be able to respond hopeful the Minister will be able to respond to hopeful the Minister will be able to respond to that. hopeful the Minister will be able to respond to that. Hon hopeful the Minister will be able to respond to that. Hon Dr hopeful the Minister will be able to respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan hopeful the Minister will be able to respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan Webb respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan Webb was respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan Webb was on respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan Webb was on his respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan Webb was on his feet respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan Webb was on his feet first. respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan Webb was on his feet first. Thank respond to that. Hon Dr Duncan Webb was on his feet first. Thank you, was on his feet first. Thank you, Madam was on his feet first. Thank you, Madam Chair. was on his feet first. Thank you, Madam Chair. I was on his feet first. Thank you, Madam Chair. I can was on his feet first. Thank you, Madam Chair. I can see was on his feet first. Thank you, Madam Chair. I can see that was on his feet first. Thank you, Madam Chair. I can see that the Madam Chair. I can see that the Minister Madam Chair. I can see that the Minister - Madam Chair. I can see that the Minister - very Madam Chair. I can see that the Minister - very good Madam Chair. I can see that the Minister - very good Minister Madam Chair. I can see that the Minister - very good Minister of Minister - very good Minister of Justice Minister - very good Minister of Justice that Minister - very good Minister of Justice that he Minister - very good Minister of Justice that he is Minister - very good Minister of Justice that he is - Minister - very good Minister of Justice that he is - is Minister - very good Minister of Justice that he is - is thinking Justice that he is - is thinking carefully Justice that he is - is thinking carefully about Justice that he is - is thinking carefully about it. Justice that he is - is thinking carefully about it. So Justice that he is - is thinking carefully about it. So I'll Justice that he is - is thinking carefully about it. So I'll just carefully about it. So I'll just touch carefully about it. So I'll just touch on carefully about it. So I'll just touch on the carefully about it. So I'll just touch on the other carefully about it. So I'll just touch on the other question carefully about it. So I'll just touch on the other question that touch on the other question that wasn't touch on the other question that wasn't responded touch on the other question that wasn't responded to. touch on the other question that wasn't responded to. It touch on the other question that wasn't responded to. It may touch on the other question that wasn't responded to. It may be touch on the other question that wasn't responded to. It may be that wasn't responded to. It may be that - wasn't responded to. It may be that - I wasn't responded to. It may be that - I know wasn't responded to. It may be that - I know my wasn't responded to. It may be that - I know my friends wasn't responded to. It may be that - I know my friends on wasn't responded to. It may be that - I know my friends on the wasn't responded to. It may be that - I know my friends on the other - I know my friends on the other side - I know my friends on the other side are - I know my friends on the other side are keen - I know my friends on the other side are keen to - I know my friends on the other side are keen to elect - I know my friends on the other side are keen to elect -- - I know my friends on the other side are keen to elect -- get - I know my friends on the other side are keen to elect -- get to side are keen to elect -- get to their side are keen to elect -- get to their feet side are keen to elect -- get to their feet - side are keen to elect -- get to their feet - but side are keen to elect -- get to their feet - but my side are keen to elect -- get to their feet - but my other side are keen to elect -- get to their feet - but my other amendment their feet - but my other amendment paper their feet - but my other amendment paper is their feet - but my other amendment paper is really their feet - but my other amendment paper is really about their feet - but my other amendment paper is really about the their feet - but my other amendment paper is really about the difficulty paper is really about the difficulty we paper is really about the difficulty we have paper is really about the difficulty we have with paper is really about the difficulty we have with the paper is really about the difficulty we have with the aggravating paper is really about the difficulty we have with the aggravating factor we have with the aggravating factor simply we have with the aggravating factor simply of we have with the aggravating factor simply of being we have with the aggravating factor simply of being a we have with the aggravating factor simply of being a gang we have with the aggravating factor simply of being a gang member we have with the aggravating factor simply of being a gang member when simply of being a gang member when it simply of being a gang member when it bears simply of being a gang member when it bears no simply of being a gang member when it bears no rational simply of being a gang member when it bears no rational relationship it bears no rational relationship with it bears no rational relationship with the it bears no rational relationship with the offending. it bears no rational relationship with the offending. And it bears no rational relationship with the offending. And my it bears no rational relationship with the offending. And my amendment with the offending. And my amendment paper with the offending. And my amendment paper has with the offending. And my amendment paper has got with the offending. And my amendment paper has got an with the offending. And my amendment paper has got an "L" with the offending. And my amendment paper has got an "L" on with the offending. And my amendment paper has got an "L" on it. with the offending. And my amendment paper has got an "L" on it. It with the offending. And my amendment paper has got an "L" on it. It adds paper has got an "L" on it. It adds a paper has got an "L" on it. It adds a subclause paper has got an "L" on it. It adds a subclause there paper has got an "L" on it. It adds a subclause there which paper has got an "L" on it. It adds a subclause there which links paper has got an "L" on it. It adds a subclause there which links it paper has got an "L" on it. It adds a subclause there which links it in a subclause there which links it in to a subclause there which links it in to serious a subclause there which links it in to serious offending, a subclause there which links it in to serious offending, so a subclause there which links it in to serious offending, so it's a subclause there which links it in to serious offending, so it's not to serious offending, so it's not shoplifting to serious offending, so it's not shoplifting or to serious offending, so it's not shoplifting or - to serious offending, so it's not shoplifting or - Mr to serious offending, so it's not shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan to serious offending, so it's not shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan used to serious offending, so it's not shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan used the shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan used the example shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan used the example of shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan used the example of infecting shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan used the example of infecting someone shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan used the example of infecting someone with shoplifting or - Mr Xi-Nan used the example of infecting someone with a example of infecting someone with a disease. example of infecting someone with a disease. My example of infecting someone with a disease. My amendment example of infecting someone with a disease. My amendment - example of infecting someone with a disease. My amendment - I example of infecting someone with a disease. My amendment - I don't disease. My amendment - I don't agree disease. My amendment - I don't agree with disease. My amendment - I don't agree with the disease. My amendment - I don't agree with the underlying disease. My amendment - I don't agree with the underlying principle agree with the underlying principle of agree with the underlying principle of the agree with the underlying principle of the Act, agree with the underlying principle of the Act, but agree with the underlying principle of the Act, but my agree with the underlying principle of the Act, but my amendment agree with the underlying principle of the Act, but my amendment would of the Act, but my amendment would mean of the Act, but my amendment would mean that of the Act, but my amendment would mean that there of the Act, but my amendment would mean that there was of the Act, but my amendment would mean that there was at of the Act, but my amendment would mean that there was at least of the Act, but my amendment would mean that there was at least some mean that there was at least some gang-ness, mean that there was at least some gang-ness, if mean that there was at least some gang-ness, if you mean that there was at least some gang-ness, if you like, mean that there was at least some gang-ness, if you like, to mean that there was at least some gang-ness, if you like, to the gang-ness, if you like, to the crime. gang-ness, if you like, to the crime. Because gang-ness, if you like, to the crime. Because serious gang-ness, if you like, to the crime. Because serious it's gang-ness, if you like, to the crime. Because serious it's serious crime. Because serious it's serious offending, crime. Because serious it's serious offending, as crime. Because serious it's serious offending, as identified crime. Because serious it's serious offending, as identified in crime. Because serious it's serious offending, as identified in this offending, as identified in this legislation. offending, as identified in this legislation. If offending, as identified in this legislation. If you offending, as identified in this legislation. If you could offending, as identified in this legislation. If you could respond offending, as identified in this legislation. If you could respond to legislation. If you could respond to that legislation. If you could respond to that retrospectivity legislation. If you could respond to that retrospectivity piece legislation. If you could respond to that retrospectivity piece in that retrospectivity piece in particular, that retrospectivity piece in particular, but that retrospectivity piece in particular, but also that retrospectivity piece in particular, but also whether that retrospectivity piece in particular, but also whether you'd particular, but also whether you'd smile particular, but also whether you'd smile upon particular, but also whether you'd smile upon that particular, but also whether you'd smile upon that other particular, but also whether you'd smile upon that other amendment smile upon that other amendment paper... smile upon that other amendment paper... The smile upon that other amendment paper... The Hon smile upon that other amendment paper... The Hon Chris smile upon that other amendment paper... The Hon Chris Penk. smile upon that other amendment paper... The Hon Chris Penk. Thank paper... The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you paper... The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very paper... The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, paper... The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam paper... The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. paper... The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. As paper... The Hon Chris Penk. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. As best you very much, Madam Chair. As best I you very much, Madam Chair. As best I can, you very much, Madam Chair. As best I can, I you very much, Madam Chair. As best I can, I do you very much, Madam Chair. As best I can, I do acknowledge you very much, Madam Chair. As best I can, I do acknowledge and you very much, Madam Chair. As best I can, I do acknowledge and will, you very much, Madam Chair. As best I can, I do acknowledge and will, as I can, I do acknowledge and will, as best I can, I do acknowledge and will, as best I I can, I do acknowledge and will, as best I can, I can, I do acknowledge and will, as best I can, address I can, I do acknowledge and will, as best I can, address the I can, I do acknowledge and will, as best I can, address the points I can, I do acknowledge and will, as best I can, address the points that best I can, address the points that the best I can, address the points that the member best I can, address the points that the member has best I can, address the points that the member has made. best I can, address the points that the member has made. In best I can, address the points that the member has made. In terms best I can, address the points that the member has made. In terms of best I can, address the points that the member has made. In terms of the the member has made. In terms of the question the member has made. In terms of the question of the member has made. In terms of the question of whether the member has made. In terms of the question of whether the the member has made. In terms of the question of whether the Government question of whether the Government intends question of whether the Government intends that question of whether the Government intends that there question of whether the Government intends that there be question of whether the Government intends that there be a question of whether the Government intends that there be a proportional intends that there be a proportional relationship intends that there be a proportional relationship between, intends that there be a proportional relationship between, on intends that there be a proportional relationship between, on the intends that there be a proportional relationship between, on the one relationship between, on the one hand, relationship between, on the one hand, connection relationship between, on the one hand, connection with relationship between, on the one hand, connection with gang hand, connection with gang membership hand, connection with gang membership and hand, connection with gang membership and the hand, connection with gang membership and the nature hand, connection with gang membership and the nature of hand, connection with gang membership and the nature of the membership and the nature of the offence, membership and the nature of the offence, I membership and the nature of the offence, I think membership and the nature of the offence, I think the membership and the nature of the offence, I think the Government's offence, I think the Government's position offence, I think the Government's position would offence, I think the Government's position would be offence, I think the Government's position would be that offence, I think the Government's position would be that that's offence, I think the Government's position would be that that's an position would be that that's an appropriate position would be that that's an appropriate question position would be that that's an appropriate question for position would be that that's an appropriate question for the position would be that that's an appropriate question for the judge appropriate question for the judge in appropriate question for the judge in any appropriate question for the judge in any individual appropriate question for the judge in any individual matter appropriate question for the judge in any individual matter and appropriate question for the judge in any individual matter and the appropriate question for the judge in any individual matter and the act in any individual matter and the act of in any individual matter and the act of sentencing in any individual matter and the act of sentencing to in any individual matter and the act of sentencing to consider in any individual matter and the act of sentencing to consider and in any individual matter and the act of sentencing to consider and apply of sentencing to consider and apply as of sentencing to consider and apply as they of sentencing to consider and apply as they think of sentencing to consider and apply as they think appropriate. of sentencing to consider and apply as they think appropriate. In of sentencing to consider and apply as they think appropriate. In terms as they think appropriate. In terms of as they think appropriate. In terms of the as they think appropriate. In terms of the question as they think appropriate. In terms of the question of as they think appropriate. In terms of the question of commencement as they think appropriate. In terms of the question of commencement or, of the question of commencement or, rather, of the question of commencement or, rather, as of the question of commencement or, rather, as the of the question of commencement or, rather, as the applicability of the question of commencement or, rather, as the applicability of of the question of commencement or, rather, as the applicability of the rather, as the applicability of the new rather, as the applicability of the new sentencing rather, as the applicability of the new sentencing regime rather, as the applicability of the new sentencing regime as rather, as the applicability of the new sentencing regime as it rather, as the applicability of the new sentencing regime as it affects new sentencing regime as it affects a new sentencing regime as it affects a matter new sentencing regime as it affects a matter in new sentencing regime as it affects a matter in which new sentencing regime as it affects a matter in which an new sentencing regime as it affects a matter in which an actus new sentencing regime as it affects a matter in which an actus rais new sentencing regime as it affects a matter in which an actus rais has a matter in which an actus rais has taken a matter in which an actus rais has taken place a matter in which an actus rais has taken place in a matter in which an actus rais has taken place in commencement a matter in which an actus rais has taken place in commencement of taken place in commencement of proceedings, taken place in commencement of proceedings, it taken place in commencement of proceedings, it seems taken place in commencement of proceedings, it seems to taken place in commencement of proceedings, it seems to me taken place in commencement of proceedings, it seems to me there'd proceedings, it seems to me there'd be proceedings, it seems to me there'd be a proceedings, it seems to me there'd be a relatively proceedings, it seems to me there'd be a relatively narrow proceedings, it seems to me there'd be a relatively narrow subset proceedings, it seems to me there'd be a relatively narrow subset of be a relatively narrow subset of actions be a relatively narrow subset of actions and be a relatively narrow subset of actions and then be a relatively narrow subset of actions and then cases be a relatively narrow subset of actions and then cases in be a relatively narrow subset of actions and then cases in which be a relatively narrow subset of actions and then cases in which this actions and then cases in which this might actions and then cases in which this might apply. actions and then cases in which this might apply. But actions and then cases in which this might apply. But it's actions and then cases in which this might apply. But it's a actions and then cases in which this might apply. But it's a reasonable might apply. But it's a reasonable question might apply. But it's a reasonable question as might apply. But it's a reasonable question as far might apply. But it's a reasonable question as far as might apply. But it's a reasonable question as far as it might apply. But it's a reasonable question as far as it goes. might apply. But it's a reasonable question as far as it goes. It might apply. But it's a reasonable question as far as it goes. It seems question as far as it goes. It seems to question as far as it goes. It seems to me question as far as it goes. It seems to me that question as far as it goes. It seems to me that the question as far as it goes. It seems to me that the Attorney-General's to me that the Attorney-General's Report, to me that the Attorney-General's Report, under to me that the Attorney-General's Report, under Section to me that the Attorney-General's Report, under Section 7 to me that the Attorney-General's Report, under Section 7 of to me that the Attorney-General's Report, under Section 7 of the to me that the Attorney-General's Report, under Section 7 of the New Report, under Section 7 of the New Zealand Report, under Section 7 of the New Zealand Bill Report, under Section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Report, under Section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Report, under Section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, Report, under Section 7 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, did Zealand Bill of Rights Act, did contemplate Zealand Bill of Rights Act, did contemplate that Zealand Bill of Rights Act, did contemplate that question. Zealand Bill of Rights Act, did contemplate that question. And contemplate that question. And indeed, contemplate that question. And indeed, other contemplate that question. And indeed, other NZBORA-related contemplate that question. And indeed, other NZBORA-related matters indeed, other NZBORA-related matters it. indeed, other NZBORA-related matters it. Seems indeed, other NZBORA-related matters it. Seems to indeed, other NZBORA-related matters it. Seems to me indeed, other NZBORA-related matters it. Seems to me that indeed, other NZBORA-related matters it. Seems to me that the indeed, other NZBORA-related matters it. Seems to me that the intention it. Seems to me that the intention isn't it. Seems to me that the intention isn't that it. Seems to me that the intention isn't that there it. Seems to me that the intention isn't that there be it. Seems to me that the intention isn't that there be a isn't that there be a retrospectivity isn't that there be a retrospectivity about isn't that there be a retrospectivity about the isn't that there be a retrospectivity about the bill isn't that there be a retrospectivity about the bill in retrospectivity about the bill in its retrospectivity about the bill in its effect. retrospectivity about the bill in its effect. And retrospectivity about the bill in its effect. And I retrospectivity about the bill in its effect. And I would retrospectivity about the bill in its effect. And I would point retrospectivity about the bill in its effect. And I would point out, its effect. And I would point out, of its effect. And I would point out, of course, its effect. And I would point out, of course, that its effect. And I would point out, of course, that while its effect. And I would point out, of course, that while of its effect. And I would point out, of course, that while of course its effect. And I would point out, of course, that while of course the of course, that while of course the NZBORA of course, that while of course the NZBORA does of course, that while of course the NZBORA does have of course, that while of course the NZBORA does have things of course, that while of course the NZBORA does have things to of course, that while of course the NZBORA does have things to say of course, that while of course the NZBORA does have things to say about NZBORA does have things to say about retrospectivity NZBORA does have things to say about retrospectivity in NZBORA does have things to say about retrospectivity in relation NZBORA does have things to say about retrospectivity in relation to retrospectivity in relation to criminal retrospectivity in relation to criminal matters, retrospectivity in relation to criminal matters, we're retrospectivity in relation to criminal matters, we're not retrospectivity in relation to criminal matters, we're not in retrospectivity in relation to criminal matters, we're not in the criminal matters, we're not in the serious criminal matters, we're not in the serious territory criminal matters, we're not in the serious territory of criminal matters, we're not in the serious territory of declaring criminal matters, we're not in the serious territory of declaring an serious territory of declaring an Act serious territory of declaring an Act to serious territory of declaring an Act to be serious territory of declaring an Act to be a serious territory of declaring an Act to be a criminal serious territory of declaring an Act to be a criminal activity serious territory of declaring an Act to be a criminal activity or Act to be a criminal activity or offence Act to be a criminal activity or offence that Act to be a criminal activity or offence that was Act to be a criminal activity or offence that was not, Act to be a criminal activity or offence that was not, at Act to be a criminal activity or offence that was not, at the Act to be a criminal activity or offence that was not, at the time offence that was not, at the time that offence that was not, at the time that it offence that was not, at the time that it was offence that was not, at the time that it was perpetrated offence that was not, at the time that it was perpetrated - offence that was not, at the time that it was perpetrated - but that it was perpetrated - but rather, that it was perpetrated - but rather, a that it was perpetrated - but rather, a bit that it was perpetrated - but rather, a bit of that it was perpetrated - but rather, a bit of nuance that it was perpetrated - but rather, a bit of nuance around that it was perpetrated - but rather, a bit of nuance around the rather, a bit of nuance around the extent rather, a bit of nuance around the extent to rather, a bit of nuance around the extent to which rather, a bit of nuance around the extent to which certain rather, a bit of nuance around the extent to which certain factors extent to which certain factors might extent to which certain factors might be extent to which certain factors might be able extent to which certain factors might be able to extent to which certain factors might be able to be extent to which certain factors might be able to be taken extent to which certain factors might be able to be taken into might be able to be taken into account. might be able to be taken into account. And might be able to be taken into account. And on might be able to be taken into account. And on the might be able to be taken into account. And on the third might be able to be taken into account. And on the third and might be able to be taken into account. And on the third and final account. And on the third and final point account. And on the third and final point which account. And on the third and final point which I account. And on the third and final point which I think account. And on the third and final point which I think is account. And on the third and final point which I think is the account. And on the third and final point which I think is the amendment point which I think is the amendment paper point which I think is the amendment paper marked point which I think is the amendment paper marked "P" point which I think is the amendment paper marked "P" for point which I think is the amendment paper marked "P" for "Papa" point which I think is the amendment paper marked "P" for "Papa" - point which I think is the amendment paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then point which I think is the amendment paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I think paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I think I'm paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I think I'm right paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I think I'm right in paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I think I'm right in saying paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I think I'm right in saying that paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I think I'm right in saying that the paper marked "P" for "Papa" - then I think I'm right in saying that the - think I'm right in saying that the - I think I'm right in saying that the - I beg think I'm right in saying that the - I beg your think I'm right in saying that the - I beg your pardon, think I'm right in saying that the - I beg your pardon, I think I'm right in saying that the - I beg your pardon, I think think I'm right in saying that the - I beg your pardon, I think that think I'm right in saying that the - I beg your pardon, I think that I'm I beg your pardon, I think that I'm in I beg your pardon, I think that I'm in the I beg your pardon, I think that I'm in the same I beg your pardon, I think that I'm in the same territory I beg your pardon, I think that I'm in the same territory as I beg your pardon, I think that I'm in the same territory as the I beg your pardon, I think that I'm in the same territory as the one in the same territory as the one that in the same territory as the one that I in the same territory as the one that I was in the same territory as the one that I was marked in the same territory as the one that I was marked "L" in the same territory as the one that I was marked "L" for in the same territory as the one that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". in the same territory as the one that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I apologise that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I apologise - that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I apologise - I'll that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I apologise - I'll see that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I apologise - I'll see if that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I apologise - I'll see if I that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I apologise - I'll see if I can that I was marked "L" for "Lemon". I apologise - I'll see if I can gain apologise - I'll see if I can gain any apologise - I'll see if I can gain any further apologise - I'll see if I can gain any further clarity apologise - I'll see if I can gain any further clarity either apologise - I'll see if I can gain any further clarity either with apologise - I'll see if I can gain any further clarity either with help any further clarity either with help from any further clarity either with help from my any further clarity either with help from my own any further clarity either with help from my own steam any further clarity either with help from my own steam or any further clarity either with help from my own steam or from any further clarity either with help from my own steam or from my from my own steam or from my friends, from my own steam or from my friends, or from my own steam or from my friends, or perhaps from my own steam or from my friends, or perhaps from from my own steam or from my friends, or perhaps from the from my own steam or from my friends, or perhaps from the young friends, or perhaps from the young member friends, or perhaps from the young member himself. friends, or perhaps from the young member himself. Paulo friends, or perhaps from the young member himself. Paulo Garcia. friends, or perhaps from the young member himself. Paulo Garcia. I friends, or perhaps from the young member himself. Paulo Garcia. I move member himself. Paulo Garcia. I move that member himself. Paulo Garcia. I move that debate member himself. Paulo Garcia. I move that debate on member himself. Paulo Garcia. I move that debate on this member himself. Paulo Garcia. I move that debate on this matter member himself. Paulo Garcia. I move that debate on this matter now that debate on this matter now close. that debate on this matter now close. I'm that debate on this matter now close. I'm going that debate on this matter now close. I'm going to that debate on this matter now close. I'm going to take that debate on this matter now close. I'm going to take a that debate on this matter now close. I'm going to take a call that debate on this matter now close. I'm going to take a call from close. I'm going to take a call from Tamatha close. I'm going to take a call from Tamatha Paul, close. I'm going to take a call from Tamatha Paul, as close. I'm going to take a call from Tamatha Paul, as the close. I'm going to take a call from Tamatha Paul, as the Minister's Tamatha Paul, as the Minister's indicated Tamatha Paul, as the Minister's indicated he's Tamatha Paul, as the Minister's indicated he's looking Tamatha Paul, as the Minister's indicated he's looking for Tamatha Paul, as the Minister's indicated he's looking for more indicated he's looking for more clarification. indicated he's looking for more clarification. But indicated he's looking for more clarification. But I indicated he's looking for more clarification. But I believe indicated he's looking for more clarification. But I believe we indicated he's looking for more clarification. But I believe we are clarification. But I believe we are getting clarification. But I believe we are getting close. clarification. But I believe we are getting close. We've clarification. But I believe we are getting close. We've had clarification. But I believe we are getting close. We've had a clarification. But I believe we are getting close. We've had a lot clarification. But I believe we are getting close. We've had a lot of getting close. We've had a lot of time getting close. We've had a lot of time on getting close. We've had a lot of time on this getting close. We've had a lot of time on this bill. getting close. We've had a lot of time on this bill. Tamatha getting close. We've had a lot of time on this bill. Tamatha Paul. time on this bill. Tamatha Paul. Madam time on this bill. Tamatha Paul. Madam Chair, time on this bill. Tamatha Paul. Madam Chair, thank time on this bill. Tamatha Paul. Madam Chair, thank you time on this bill. Tamatha Paul. Madam Chair, thank you for time on this bill. Tamatha Paul. Madam Chair, thank you for allowing Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to take Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a call Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a call on Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a call on Part Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a call on Part 5 Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a call on Part 5 of Madam Chair, thank you for allowing me to take a call on Part 5 of this me to take a call on Part 5 of this bill. me to take a call on Part 5 of this bill. My me to take a call on Part 5 of this bill. My question me to take a call on Part 5 of this bill. My question is me to take a call on Part 5 of this bill. My question is related me to take a call on Part 5 of this bill. My question is related to bill. My question is related to aggravating bill. My question is related to aggravating factors. bill. My question is related to aggravating factors. I bill. My question is related to aggravating factors. I know bill. My question is related to aggravating factors. I know that bill. My question is related to aggravating factors. I know that we aggravating factors. I know that we have aggravating factors. I know that we have already aggravating factors. I know that we have already covered aggravating factors. I know that we have already covered the aggravating factors. I know that we have already covered the aspect aggravating factors. I know that we have already covered the aspect that have already covered the aspect that the have already covered the aspect that the crime have already covered the aspect that the crime that have already covered the aspect that the crime that is have already covered the aspect that the crime that is being have already covered the aspect that the crime that is being committed the crime that is being committed might the crime that is being committed might not the crime that is being committed might not relate the crime that is being committed might not relate to the crime that is being committed might not relate to the the crime that is being committed might not relate to the offender's might not relate to the offender's membership might not relate to the offender's membership of might not relate to the offender's membership of a might not relate to the offender's membership of a gang, might not relate to the offender's membership of a gang, but might not relate to the offender's membership of a gang, but I might not relate to the offender's membership of a gang, but I do might not relate to the offender's membership of a gang, but I do want membership of a gang, but I do want to membership of a gang, but I do want to dive membership of a gang, but I do want to dive into membership of a gang, but I do want to dive into that membership of a gang, but I do want to dive into that aggravating membership of a gang, but I do want to dive into that aggravating factor to dive into that aggravating factor a to dive into that aggravating factor a little to dive into that aggravating factor a little bit to dive into that aggravating factor a little bit more, to dive into that aggravating factor a little bit more, and to dive into that aggravating factor a little bit more, and the to dive into that aggravating factor a little bit more, and the way to dive into that aggravating factor a little bit more, and the way that a little bit more, and the way that this a little bit more, and the way that this takes a little bit more, and the way that this takes away a little bit more, and the way that this takes away discretions a little bit more, and the way that this takes away discretions from a little bit more, and the way that this takes away discretions from the this takes away discretions from the judges this takes away discretions from the judges who this takes away discretions from the judges who are this takes away discretions from the judges who are charged this takes away discretions from the judges who are charged with this takes away discretions from the judges who are charged with taking judges who are charged with taking into judges who are charged with taking into account judges who are charged with taking into account the judges who are charged with taking into account the person judges who are charged with taking into account the person before judges who are charged with taking into account the person before them into account the person before them and into account the person before them and then into account the person before them and then giving into account the person before them and then giving them into account the person before them and then giving them a into account the person before them and then giving them a programme into account the person before them and then giving them a programme of and then giving them a programme of rehabilitation and then giving them a programme of rehabilitation or and then giving them a programme of rehabilitation or sentences and then giving them a programme of rehabilitation or sentences that rehabilitation or sentences that deals rehabilitation or sentences that deals with rehabilitation or sentences that deals with the rehabilitation or sentences that deals with the offending rehabilitation or sentences that deals with the offending that rehabilitation or sentences that deals with the offending that has deals with the offending that has taken deals with the offending that has taken place. deals with the offending that has taken place. My deals with the offending that has taken place. My question deals with the offending that has taken place. My question to deals with the offending that has taken place. My question to the taken place. My question to the Minister taken place. My question to the Minister is taken place. My question to the Minister is - taken place. My question to the Minister is - why taken place. My question to the Minister is - why doesn't taken place. My question to the Minister is - why doesn't the Minister is - why doesn't the Government Minister is - why doesn't the Government trust Minister is - why doesn't the Government trust the Minister is - why doesn't the Government trust the judiciary Minister is - why doesn't the Government trust the judiciary to Government trust the judiciary to implement Government trust the judiciary to implement the Government trust the judiciary to implement the aggravating Government trust the judiciary to implement the aggravating factor Government trust the judiciary to implement the aggravating factor for implement the aggravating factor for gang implement the aggravating factor for gang membership implement the aggravating factor for gang membership that implement the aggravating factor for gang membership that already implement the aggravating factor for gang membership that already exists gang membership that already exists within gang membership that already exists within the gang membership that already exists within the legislation? gang membership that already exists within the legislation? And gang membership that already exists within the legislation? And why gang membership that already exists within the legislation? And why is within the legislation? And why is the within the legislation? And why is the Government within the legislation? And why is the Government choosing within the legislation? And why is the Government choosing to within the legislation? And why is the Government choosing to override the Government choosing to override the the Government choosing to override the judiciary the Government choosing to override the judiciary again? the Government choosing to override the judiciary again? And the Government choosing to override the judiciary again? And today, the Government choosing to override the judiciary again? And today, we the judiciary again? And today, we had the judiciary again? And today, we had hearings the judiciary again? And today, we had hearings on the judiciary again? And today, we had hearings on the the judiciary again? And today, we had hearings on the three-strikes had hearings on the three-strikes legislation, had hearings on the three-strikes legislation, which had hearings on the three-strikes legislation, which does had hearings on the three-strikes legislation, which does a had hearings on the three-strikes legislation, which does a similar legislation, which does a similar thing legislation, which does a similar thing in legislation, which does a similar thing in that legislation, which does a similar thing in that it legislation, which does a similar thing in that it provides legislation, which does a similar thing in that it provides more thing in that it provides more instruction thing in that it provides more instruction to thing in that it provides more instruction to judges thing in that it provides more instruction to judges about thing in that it provides more instruction to judges about how thing in that it provides more instruction to judges about how they instruction to judges about how they need instruction to judges about how they need to instruction to judges about how they need to sentence instruction to judges about how they need to sentence and instruction to judges about how they need to sentence and deal instruction to judges about how they need to sentence and deal with need to sentence and deal with different need to sentence and deal with different crimes. need to sentence and deal with different crimes. And need to sentence and deal with different crimes. And again, need to sentence and deal with different crimes. And again, it's different crimes. And again, it's this different crimes. And again, it's this - different crimes. And again, it's this - you different crimes. And again, it's this - you know, different crimes. And again, it's this - you know, we different crimes. And again, it's this - you know, we have different crimes. And again, it's this - you know, we have this different crimes. And again, it's this - you know, we have this really this - you know, we have this really important this - you know, we have this really important separation this - you know, we have this really important separation of this - you know, we have this really important separation of powers important separation of powers within important separation of powers within our important separation of powers within our democratic important separation of powers within our democratic system important separation of powers within our democratic system that within our democratic system that separates within our democratic system that separates us within our democratic system that separates us and within our democratic system that separates us and the within our democratic system that separates us and the executive within our democratic system that separates us and the executive from separates us and the executive from the separates us and the executive from the judiciary. separates us and the executive from the judiciary. And separates us and the executive from the judiciary. And this separates us and the executive from the judiciary. And this takes separates us and the executive from the judiciary. And this takes out the judiciary. And this takes out the the judiciary. And this takes out the judge's the judiciary. And this takes out the judge's discretion. the judiciary. And this takes out the judge's discretion. I'm the judiciary. And this takes out the judge's discretion. I'm further the judge's discretion. I'm further concerned the judge's discretion. I'm further concerned that, the judge's discretion. I'm further concerned that, with the judge's discretion. I'm further concerned that, with the the judge's discretion. I'm further concerned that, with the unfunding concerned that, with the unfunding of concerned that, with the unfunding of Section concerned that, with the unfunding of Section 27 concerned that, with the unfunding of Section 27 reports, concerned that, with the unfunding of Section 27 reports, that concerned that, with the unfunding of Section 27 reports, that our of Section 27 reports, that our judges of Section 27 reports, that our judges aren't of Section 27 reports, that our judges aren't going of Section 27 reports, that our judges aren't going to of Section 27 reports, that our judges aren't going to have of Section 27 reports, that our judges aren't going to have an judges aren't going to have an accurate judges aren't going to have an accurate picture judges aren't going to have an accurate picture of judges aren't going to have an accurate picture of the judges aren't going to have an accurate picture of the person accurate picture of the person before accurate picture of the person before them accurate picture of the person before them to accurate picture of the person before them to be accurate picture of the person before them to be able accurate picture of the person before them to be able to accurate picture of the person before them to be able to give accurate picture of the person before them to be able to give them before them to be able to give them an before them to be able to give them an outcome before them to be able to give them an outcome that before them to be able to give them an outcome that actually before them to be able to give them an outcome that actually addresses an outcome that actually addresses their an outcome that actually addresses their offending an outcome that actually addresses their offending and an outcome that actually addresses their offending and addresses an outcome that actually addresses their offending and addresses the their offending and addresses the needs their offending and addresses the needs of their offending and addresses the needs of the their offending and addresses the needs of the victims their offending and addresses the needs of the victims if their offending and addresses the needs of the victims if there their offending and addresses the needs of the victims if there are needs of the victims if there are some needs of the victims if there are some in needs of the victims if there are some in this needs of the victims if there are some in this situation. needs of the victims if there are some in this situation. So, needs of the victims if there are some in this situation. So, how needs of the victims if there are some in this situation. So, how is some in this situation. So, how is the some in this situation. So, how is the judge some in this situation. So, how is the judge supposed some in this situation. So, how is the judge supposed to some in this situation. So, how is the judge supposed to take some in this situation. So, how is the judge supposed to take into the judge supposed to take into account the judge supposed to take into account what the judge supposed to take into account what appropriate account what appropriate rehabilitation account what appropriate rehabilitation is account what appropriate rehabilitation is needed account what appropriate rehabilitation is needed when account what appropriate rehabilitation is needed when they rehabilitation is needed when they don't rehabilitation is needed when they don't have rehabilitation is needed when they don't have the rehabilitation is needed when they don't have the cultural rehabilitation is needed when they don't have the cultural or don't have the cultural or background don't have the cultural or background information don't have the cultural or background information that don't have the cultural or background information that they background information that they need background information that they need via background information that they need via a background information that they need via a Section background information that they need via a Section 27 background information that they need via a Section 27 report, background information that they need via a Section 27 report, which need via a Section 27 report, which I'm need via a Section 27 report, which I'm assuming need via a Section 27 report, which I'm assuming most need via a Section 27 report, which I'm assuming most people need via a Section 27 report, which I'm assuming most people who need via a Section 27 report, which I'm assuming most people who are need via a Section 27 report, which I'm assuming most people who are in I'm assuming most people who are in gangs I'm assuming most people who are in gangs would I'm assuming most people who are in gangs would probably I'm assuming most people who are in gangs would probably need I'm assuming most people who are in gangs would probably need to I'm assuming most people who are in gangs would probably need to rely I'm assuming most people who are in gangs would probably need to rely on gangs would probably need to rely on Legal gangs would probably need to rely on Legal Aid gangs would probably need to rely on Legal Aid for gangs would probably need to rely on Legal Aid for that gangs would probably need to rely on Legal Aid for that Section gangs would probably need to rely on Legal Aid for that Section 27 Legal Aid for that Section 27 report. Legal Aid for that Section 27 report. But Legal Aid for that Section 27 report. But all Legal Aid for that Section 27 report. But all the Legal Aid for that Section 27 report. But all the judge Legal Aid for that Section 27 report. But all the judge has Legal Aid for that Section 27 report. But all the judge has got Legal Aid for that Section 27 report. But all the judge has got in report. But all the judge has got in front report. But all the judge has got in front of report. But all the judge has got in front of them report. But all the judge has got in front of them is report. But all the judge has got in front of them is this report. But all the judge has got in front of them is this aggravating front of them is this aggravating factor front of them is this aggravating factor that front of them is this aggravating factor that this front of them is this aggravating factor that this person front of them is this aggravating factor that this person belongs front of them is this aggravating factor that this person belongs to front of them is this aggravating factor that this person belongs to a factor that this person belongs to a gang, factor that this person belongs to a gang, but factor that this person belongs to a gang, but doesn't factor that this person belongs to a gang, but doesn't have factor that this person belongs to a gang, but doesn't have the factor that this person belongs to a gang, but doesn't have the reason gang, but doesn't have the reason why gang, but doesn't have the reason why this gang, but doesn't have the reason why this person gang, but doesn't have the reason why this person is gang, but doesn't have the reason why this person is in gang, but doesn't have the reason why this person is in a gang, but doesn't have the reason why this person is in a gang gang, but doesn't have the reason why this person is in a gang in gang, but doesn't have the reason why this person is in a gang in the why this person is in a gang in the first why this person is in a gang in the first place. why this person is in a gang in the first place. And why this person is in a gang in the first place. And we why this person is in a gang in the first place. And we know why this person is in a gang in the first place. And we know that why this person is in a gang in the first place. And we know that that's first place. And we know that that's important first place. And we know that that's important context first place. And we know that that's important context to first place. And we know that that's important context to have, first place. And we know that that's important context to have, because important context to have, because just important context to have, because just two important context to have, because just two weeks important context to have, because just two weeks ago, important context to have, because just two weeks ago, we important context to have, because just two weeks ago, we had important context to have, because just two weeks ago, we had the important context to have, because just two weeks ago, we had the Abuse just two weeks ago, we had the Abuse in just two weeks ago, we had the Abuse in State just two weeks ago, we had the Abuse in State Care just two weeks ago, we had the Abuse in State Care report, just two weeks ago, we had the Abuse in State Care report, which just two weeks ago, we had the Abuse in State Care report, which details in State Care report, which details one in State Care report, which details one of in State Care report, which details one of the in State Care report, which details one of the many in State Care report, which details one of the many reasons in State Care report, which details one of the many reasons why in State Care report, which details one of the many reasons why many one of the many reasons why many people one of the many reasons why many people feel one of the many reasons why many people feel that one of the many reasons why many people feel that they one of the many reasons why many people feel that they need one of the many reasons why many people feel that they need to one of the many reasons why many people feel that they need to turn people feel that they need to turn to people feel that they need to turn to gangs people feel that they need to turn to gangs in people feel that they need to turn to gangs in the people feel that they need to turn to gangs in the first people feel that they need to turn to gangs in the first place. to gangs in the first place. Actually, to gangs in the first place. Actually, if to gangs in the first place. Actually, if you to gangs in the first place. Actually, if you look to gangs in the first place. Actually, if you look to to gangs in the first place. Actually, if you look to the to gangs in the first place. Actually, if you look to the Chief Actually, if you look to the Chief Science Actually, if you look to the Chief Science Adviser Actually, if you look to the Chief Science Adviser to Actually, if you look to the Chief Science Adviser to the Actually, if you look to the Chief Science Adviser to the PM's Actually, if you look to the Chief Science Adviser to the PM's report Science Adviser to the PM's report about Science Adviser to the PM's report about minimising Science Adviser to the PM's report about minimising gang Science Adviser to the PM's report about minimising gang harm Science Adviser to the PM's report about minimising gang harm in about minimising gang harm in Aotearoa, about minimising gang harm in Aotearoa, they about minimising gang harm in Aotearoa, they say about minimising gang harm in Aotearoa, they say - about minimising gang harm in Aotearoa, they say - that about minimising gang harm in Aotearoa, they say - that adviser Aotearoa, they say - that adviser says Aotearoa, they say - that adviser says in Aotearoa, they say - that adviser says in that Aotearoa, they say - that adviser says in that report Aotearoa, they say - that adviser says in that report - Aotearoa, they say - that adviser says in that report - that Aotearoa, they say - that adviser says in that report - that gangs says in that report - that gangs exist says in that report - that gangs exist because says in that report - that gangs exist because they says in that report - that gangs exist because they perform says in that report - that gangs exist because they perform a exist because they perform a function exist because they perform a function within exist because they perform a function within society. exist because they perform a function within society. So exist because they perform a function within society. So this exist because they perform a function within society. So this is function within society. So this is all function within society. So this is all important function within society. So this is all important context function within society. So this is all important context that function within society. So this is all important context that our all important context that our judges all important context that our judges need all important context that our judges need to all important context that our judges need to have all important context that our judges need to have before all important context that our judges need to have before them, all important context that our judges need to have before them, but judges need to have before them, but won't judges need to have before them, but won't be judges need to have before them, but won't be able judges need to have before them, but won't be able to judges need to have before them, but won't be able to have judges need to have before them, but won't be able to have before judges need to have before them, but won't be able to have before them. won't be able to have before them. So, won't be able to have before them. So, that's won't be able to have before them. So, that's my won't be able to have before them. So, that's my first won't be able to have before them. So, that's my first major won't be able to have before them. So, that's my first major question won't be able to have before them. So, that's my first major question - So, that's my first major question - what So, that's my first major question - what has So, that's my first major question - what has led So, that's my first major question - what has led to So, that's my first major question - what has led to the So, that's my first major question - what has led to the major So, that's my first major question - what has led to the major distrust what has led to the major distrust in what has led to the major distrust in judges' what has led to the major distrust in judges' abilities what has led to the major distrust in judges' abilities to what has led to the major distrust in judges' abilities to provide in judges' abilities to provide appropriate in judges' abilities to provide appropriate sentences? in judges' abilities to provide appropriate sentences? Is in judges' abilities to provide appropriate sentences? Is it in judges' abilities to provide appropriate sentences? Is it because appropriate sentences? Is it because this appropriate sentences? Is it because this Government appropriate sentences? Is it because this Government chooses appropriate sentences? Is it because this Government chooses to this Government chooses to prioritise this Government chooses to prioritise deterrence this Government chooses to prioritise deterrence theory, this Government chooses to prioritise deterrence theory, which prioritise deterrence theory, which is prioritise deterrence theory, which is effectively prioritise deterrence theory, which is effectively that prioritise deterrence theory, which is effectively that people prioritise deterrence theory, which is effectively that people who is effectively that people who commit is effectively that people who commit crime is effectively that people who commit crime are is effectively that people who commit crime are aware is effectively that people who commit crime are aware of is effectively that people who commit crime are aware of the commit crime are aware of the sentences commit crime are aware of the sentences stied commit crime are aware of the sentences stied to commit crime are aware of the sentences stied to the commit crime are aware of the sentences stied to the crime commit crime are aware of the sentences stied to the crime that sentences stied to the crime that they're sentences stied to the crime that they're committing, sentences stied to the crime that they're committing, which sentences stied to the crime that they're committing, which we sentences stied to the crime that they're committing, which we know sentences stied to the crime that they're committing, which we know is they're committing, which we know is not they're committing, which we know is not true? they're committing, which we know is not true? Often, they're committing, which we know is not true? Often, crime they're committing, which we know is not true? Often, crime is they're committing, which we know is not true? Often, crime is motivated not true? Often, crime is motivated by not true? Often, crime is motivated by emotions not true? Often, crime is motivated by emotions and not true? Often, crime is motivated by emotions and the not true? Often, crime is motivated by emotions and the situation not true? Often, crime is motivated by emotions and the situation before by emotions and the situation before the by emotions and the situation before the person by emotions and the situation before the person commits by emotions and the situation before the person commits the by emotions and the situation before the person commits the crime, by emotions and the situation before the person commits the crime, as the person commits the crime, as opposed the person commits the crime, as opposed to the person commits the crime, as opposed to them the person commits the crime, as opposed to them making the person commits the crime, as opposed to them making a the person commits the crime, as opposed to them making a rational opposed to them making a rational decision opposed to them making a rational decision on, opposed to them making a rational decision on, "If opposed to them making a rational decision on, "If I opposed to them making a rational decision on, "If I do opposed to them making a rational decision on, "If I do this opposed to them making a rational decision on, "If I do this thing, decision on, "If I do this thing, these decision on, "If I do this thing, these are decision on, "If I do this thing, these are the decision on, "If I do this thing, these are the consequences decision on, "If I do this thing, these are the consequences of decision on, "If I do this thing, these are the consequences of my these are the consequences of my actions." these are the consequences of my actions." That's these are the consequences of my actions." That's not these are the consequences of my actions." That's not the these are the consequences of my actions." That's not the way these are the consequences of my actions." That's not the way that actions." That's not the way that crime actions." That's not the way that crime happens. actions." That's not the way that crime happens. We actions." That's not the way that crime happens. We had actions." That's not the way that crime happens. We had lots actions." That's not the way that crime happens. We had lots of crime happens. We had lots of criminologists crime happens. We had lots of criminologists and crime happens. We had lots of criminologists and lawyers crime happens. We had lots of criminologists and lawyers and criminologists and lawyers and people criminologists and lawyers and people that criminologists and lawyers and people that work criminologists and lawyers and people that work in criminologists and lawyers and people that work in the criminologists and lawyers and people that work in the criminal criminologists and lawyers and people that work in the criminal law people that work in the criminal law space people that work in the criminal law space that people that work in the criminal law space that understand people that work in the criminal law space that understand that space that understand that deterrence space that understand that deterrence theory space that understand that deterrence theory isn't space that understand that deterrence theory isn't accurate space that understand that deterrence theory isn't accurate and deterrence theory isn't accurate and doesn't deterrence theory isn't accurate and doesn't work, deterrence theory isn't accurate and doesn't work, because deterrence theory isn't accurate and doesn't work, because the deterrence theory isn't accurate and doesn't work, because the people doesn't work, because the people that doesn't work, because the people that commit doesn't work, because the people that commit crime doesn't work, because the people that commit crime - doesn't work, because the people that commit crime - and doesn't work, because the people that commit crime - and most doesn't work, because the people that commit crime - and most of doesn't work, because the people that commit crime - and most of the that commit crime - and most of the people that commit crime - and most of the people in that commit crime - and most of the people in prison that commit crime - and most of the people in prison - that commit crime - and most of the people in prison - have that commit crime - and most of the people in prison - have got people in prison - have got significant people in prison - have got significant mental people in prison - have got significant mental and people in prison - have got significant mental and cognitive significant mental and cognitive issues. significant mental and cognitive issues. So, significant mental and cognitive issues. So, their significant mental and cognitive issues. So, their literally significant mental and cognitive issues. So, their literally is significant mental and cognitive issues. So, their literally is not issues. So, their literally is not the issues. So, their literally is not the same issues. So, their literally is not the same as issues. So, their literally is not the same as everybody issues. So, their literally is not the same as everybody else. issues. So, their literally is not the same as everybody else. There the same as everybody else. There are the same as everybody else. There are significant the same as everybody else. There are significant neurodiversity are significant neurodiversity issues are significant neurodiversity issues with are significant neurodiversity issues with people are significant neurodiversity issues with people that are significant neurodiversity issues with people that are are significant neurodiversity issues with people that are in issues with people that are in prison, issues with people that are in prison, and issues with people that are in prison, and their issues with people that are in prison, and their ability issues with people that are in prison, and their ability to issues with people that are in prison, and their ability to make prison, and their ability to make decisions prison, and their ability to make decisions and prison, and their ability to make decisions and weigh prison, and their ability to make decisions and weigh up prison, and their ability to make decisions and weigh up the decisions and weigh up the consequences decisions and weigh up the consequences of decisions and weigh up the consequences of their decisions and weigh up the consequences of their actions decisions and weigh up the consequences of their actions is consequences of their actions is impaired. consequences of their actions is impaired. So, consequences of their actions is impaired. So, that's consequences of their actions is impaired. So, that's my consequences of their actions is impaired. So, that's my first impaired. So, that's my first question. impaired. So, that's my first question. And impaired. So, that's my first question. And has impaired. So, that's my first question. And has he impaired. So, that's my first question. And has he seen impaired. So, that's my first question. And has he seen any question. And has he seen any evidence question. And has he seen any evidence at question. And has he seen any evidence at all question. And has he seen any evidence at all that question. And has he seen any evidence at all that making question. And has he seen any evidence at all that making gang evidence at all that making gang membership evidence at all that making gang membership an evidence at all that making gang membership an aggravating evidence at all that making gang membership an aggravating factor evidence at all that making gang membership an aggravating factor at membership an aggravating factor at sentencing membership an aggravating factor at sentencing will membership an aggravating factor at sentencing will help membership an aggravating factor at sentencing will help people membership an aggravating factor at sentencing will help people to membership an aggravating factor at sentencing will help people to exit sentencing will help people to exit gangs sentencing will help people to exit gangs as sentencing will help people to exit gangs as well? sentencing will help people to exit gangs as well? Because, sentencing will help people to exit gangs as well? Because, that sentencing will help people to exit gangs as well? Because, that surely gangs as well? Because, that surely is gangs as well? Because, that surely is the gangs as well? Because, that surely is the outcome gangs as well? Because, that surely is the outcome we gangs as well? Because, that surely is the outcome we all gangs as well? Because, that surely is the outcome we all want gangs as well? Because, that surely is the outcome we all want across is the outcome we all want across the is the outcome we all want across the House. is the outcome we all want across the House. We is the outcome we all want across the House. We want is the outcome we all want across the House. We want fewer is the outcome we all want across the House. We want fewer gang the House. We want fewer gang members, the House. We want fewer gang members, we the House. We want fewer gang members, we want, the House. We want fewer gang members, we want, and the House. We want fewer gang members, we want, and we the House. We want fewer gang members, we want, and we want the House. We want fewer gang members, we want, and we want to members, we want, and we want to make members, we want, and we want to make sure members, we want, and we want to make sure that members, we want, and we want to make sure that people members, we want, and we want to make sure that people can members, we want, and we want to make sure that people can exit members, we want, and we want to make sure that people can exit gang make sure that people can exit gang safely. make sure that people can exit gang safely. What make sure that people can exit gang safely. What evidence make sure that people can exit gang safely. What evidence has make sure that people can exit gang safely. What evidence has he make sure that people can exit gang safely. What evidence has he seen safely. What evidence has he seen that safely. What evidence has he seen that longer safely. What evidence has he seen that longer sentences safely. What evidence has he seen that longer sentences actually safely. What evidence has he seen that longer sentences actually leads that longer sentences actually leads to that longer sentences actually leads to people that longer sentences actually leads to people exiting that longer sentences actually leads to people exiting gangs that longer sentences actually leads to people exiting gangs in that longer sentences actually leads to people exiting gangs in the that longer sentences actually leads to people exiting gangs in the first to people exiting gangs in the first place. to people exiting gangs in the first place. Hon to people exiting gangs in the first place. Hon Chris to people exiting gangs in the first place. Hon Chris Penk. to people exiting gangs in the first place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank to people exiting gangs in the first place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you. place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you. Very place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you. Very briefly, place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you. Very briefly, I place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you. Very briefly, I won't place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you. Very briefly, I won't engage place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you. Very briefly, I won't engage on place. Hon Chris Penk. Thank you. Very briefly, I won't engage on the Very briefly, I won't engage on the points Very briefly, I won't engage on the points not Very briefly, I won't engage on the points not related Very briefly, I won't engage on the points not related to Very briefly, I won't engage on the points not related to the Very briefly, I won't engage on the points not related to the bill. Very briefly, I won't engage on the points not related to the bill. The points not related to the bill. The three points not related to the bill. The three points points not related to the bill. The three points in points not related to the bill. The three points in relation points not related to the bill. The three points in relation to points not related to the bill. The three points in relation to the three points in relation to the member's three points in relation to the member's contribution, three points in relation to the member's contribution, she three points in relation to the member's contribution, she alleges member's contribution, she alleges we're member's contribution, she alleges we're overriding member's contribution, she alleges we're overriding judges' member's contribution, she alleges we're overriding judges' discretion, we're overriding judges' discretion, indeed, we're overriding judges' discretion, indeed, we're we're overriding judges' discretion, indeed, we're not, we're overriding judges' discretion, indeed, we're not, we're we're overriding judges' discretion, indeed, we're not, we're empowering indeed, we're not, we're empowering choices indeed, we're not, we're empowering choices they indeed, we're not, we're empowering choices they make indeed, we're not, we're empowering choices they make to indeed, we're not, we're empowering choices they make to decide indeed, we're not, we're empowering choices they make to decide the choices they make to decide the appropriate choices they make to decide the appropriate weight choices they make to decide the appropriate weight to choices they make to decide the appropriate weight to place choices they make to decide the appropriate weight to place on choices they make to decide the appropriate weight to place on gang appropriate weight to place on gang membership appropriate weight to place on gang membership in appropriate weight to place on gang membership in relation appropriate weight to place on gang membership in relation to appropriate weight to place on gang membership in relation to any membership in relation to any individual membership in relation to any individual matter membership in relation to any individual matter before membership in relation to any individual matter before them. individual matter before them. Second, individual matter before them. Second, she individual matter before them. Second, she makes individual matter before them. Second, she makes a individual matter before them. Second, she makes a point individual matter before them. Second, she makes a point around Second, she makes a point around deterrence, Second, she makes a point around deterrence, as Second, she makes a point around deterrence, as though Second, she makes a point around deterrence, as though deterrence Second, she makes a point around deterrence, as though deterrence was deterrence, as though deterrence was the deterrence, as though deterrence was the only deterrence, as though deterrence was the only aim deterrence, as though deterrence was the only aim of deterrence, as though deterrence was the only aim of the deterrence, as though deterrence was the only aim of the criminal deterrence, as though deterrence was the only aim of the criminal justice the only aim of the criminal justice system, the only aim of the criminal justice system, it the only aim of the criminal justice system, it is the only aim of the criminal justice system, it is not. the only aim of the criminal justice system, it is not. There's the only aim of the criminal justice system, it is not. There's various system, it is not. There's various others, system, it is not. There's various others, including system, it is not. There's various others, including prevention. system, it is not. There's various others, including prevention. If others, including prevention. If members others, including prevention. If members who others, including prevention. If members who have others, including prevention. If members who have committed others, including prevention. If members who have committed violent members who have committed violent acts members who have committed violent acts are members who have committed violent acts are behind members who have committed violent acts are behind bars, members who have committed violent acts are behind bars, society members who have committed violent acts are behind bars, society is members who have committed violent acts are behind bars, society is a acts are behind bars, society is a bit acts are behind bars, society is a bit safer. acts are behind bars, society is a bit safer. And acts are behind bars, society is a bit safer. And another acts are behind bars, society is a bit safer. And another one acts are behind bars, society is a bit safer. And another one is bit safer. And another one is rehabilitation. bit safer. And another one is rehabilitation. We bit safer. And another one is rehabilitation. We have bit safer. And another one is rehabilitation. We have better rehabilitation. We have better rehabilitative rehabilitation. We have better rehabilitative processes rehabilitation. We have better rehabilitative processes when rehabilitation. We have better rehabilitative processes when people rehabilitative processes when people are rehabilitative processes when people are incarcerated, rehabilitative processes when people are incarcerated, they rehabilitative processes when people are incarcerated, they have rehabilitative processes when people are incarcerated, they have better are incarcerated, they have better life are incarcerated, they have better life prospects, are incarcerated, they have better life prospects, in are incarcerated, they have better life prospects, in relation are incarcerated, they have better life prospects, in relation to life prospects, in relation to society life prospects, in relation to society and life prospects, in relation to society and community life prospects, in relation to society and community membership, society and community membership, other society and community membership, other than society and community membership, other than by society and community membership, other than by gangs. society and community membership, other than by gangs. And society and community membership, other than by gangs. And finally society and community membership, other than by gangs. And finally in other than by gangs. And finally in relation other than by gangs. And finally in relation to other than by gangs. And finally in relation to sentences, other than by gangs. And finally in relation to sentences, I other than by gangs. And finally in relation to sentences, I think other than by gangs. And finally in relation to sentences, I think the relation to sentences, I think the member's relation to sentences, I think the member's point relation to sentences, I think the member's point was relation to sentences, I think the member's point was along relation to sentences, I think the member's point was along the relation to sentences, I think the member's point was along the lines member's point was along the lines that member's point was along the lines that there member's point was along the lines that there would member's point was along the lines that there would be member's point was along the lines that there would be an member's point was along the lines that there would be an effect member's point was along the lines that there would be an effect on that there would be an effect on sentencing, that there would be an effect on sentencing, but that there would be an effect on sentencing, but of that there would be an effect on sentencing, but of course, that there would be an effect on sentencing, but of course, again, sentencing, but of course, again, it's sentencing, but of course, again, it's back sentencing, but of course, again, it's back to sentencing, but of course, again, it's back to judges' sentencing, but of course, again, it's back to judges' discretion sentencing, but of course, again, it's back to judges' discretion in it's back to judges' discretion in terms it's back to judges' discretion in terms of it's back to judges' discretion in terms of determining it's back to judges' discretion in terms of determining the it's back to judges' discretion in terms of determining the appropriate terms of determining the appropriate degree terms of determining the appropriate degree of terms of determining the appropriate degree of weight. terms of determining the appropriate degree of weight. But terms of determining the appropriate degree of weight. But Parliament terms of determining the appropriate degree of weight. But Parliament has degree of weight. But Parliament has the degree of weight. But Parliament has the ability degree of weight. But Parliament has the ability to degree of weight. But Parliament has the ability to provide degree of weight. But Parliament has the ability to provide guidance degree of weight. But Parliament has the ability to provide guidance to the ability to provide guidance to judges the ability to provide guidance to judges through the ability to provide guidance to judges through the the ability to provide guidance to judges through the sentencing the ability to provide guidance to judges through the sentencing Act judges through the sentencing Act that judges through the sentencing Act that is judges through the sentencing Act that is applied judges through the sentencing Act that is applied to judges through the sentencing Act that is applied to individual judges through the sentencing Act that is applied to individual cases that is applied to individual cases without that is applied to individual cases without our that is applied to individual cases without our interference, that is applied to individual cases without our interference, that's that is applied to individual cases without our interference, that's why without our interference, that's why we without our interference, that's why we have without our interference, that's why we have a without our interference, that's why we have a sentencing without our interference, that's why we have a sentencing Act without our interference, that's why we have a sentencing Act in without our interference, that's why we have a sentencing Act in the we have a sentencing Act in the first we have a sentencing Act in the first place. we have a sentencing Act in the first place. If we have a sentencing Act in the first place. If I we have a sentencing Act in the first place. If I can we have a sentencing Act in the first place. If I can just we have a sentencing Act in the first place. If I can just return we have a sentencing Act in the first place. If I can just return to first place. If I can just return to the first place. If I can just return to the points first place. If I can just return to the points that first place. If I can just return to the points that were first place. If I can just return to the points that were made first place. If I can just return to the points that were made by first place. If I can just return to the points that were made by Dr the points that were made by Dr Duncan the points that were made by Dr Duncan Webb the points that were made by Dr Duncan Webb previously, the points that were made by Dr Duncan Webb previously, one the points that were made by Dr Duncan Webb previously, one of the points that were made by Dr Duncan Webb previously, one of which Duncan Webb previously, one of which I Duncan Webb previously, one of which I missed Duncan Webb previously, one of which I missed addressing Duncan Webb previously, one of which I missed addressing entirely, Duncan Webb previously, one of which I missed addressing entirely, that I missed addressing entirely, that was I missed addressing entirely, that was amendment I missed addressing entirely, that was amendment paper I missed addressing entirely, that was amendment paper P. I missed addressing entirely, that was amendment paper P. The I missed addressing entirely, that was amendment paper P. The point was amendment paper P. The point for, was amendment paper P. The point for, that was amendment paper P. The point for, that I was amendment paper P. The point for, that I do was amendment paper P. The point for, that I do want was amendment paper P. The point for, that I do want to was amendment paper P. The point for, that I do want to state was amendment paper P. The point for, that I do want to state on for, that I do want to state on record, for, that I do want to state on record, because for, that I do want to state on record, because this for, that I do want to state on record, because this is for, that I do want to state on record, because this is important record, because this is important and record, because this is important and this record, because this is important and this could record, because this is important and this could be record, because this is important and this could be a record, because this is important and this could be a matter record, because this is important and this could be a matter that and this could be a matter that judges and this could be a matter that judges take and this could be a matter that judges take seriously and this could be a matter that judges take seriously going and this could be a matter that judges take seriously going forward, judges take seriously going forward, in judges take seriously going forward, in terms judges take seriously going forward, in terms of judges take seriously going forward, in terms of understanding in terms of understanding Parliament's in terms of understanding Parliament's intent in terms of understanding Parliament's intent and in terms of understanding Parliament's intent and the Parliament's intent and the Government's Parliament's intent and the Government's intent, Parliament's intent and the Government's intent, we Parliament's intent and the Government's intent, we intend Parliament's intent and the Government's intent, we intend this Government's intent, we intend this to Government's intent, we intend this to be Government's intent, we intend this to be interpreted Government's intent, we intend this to be interpreted consistently Government's intent, we intend this to be interpreted consistently with to be interpreted consistently with the to be interpreted consistently with the New to be interpreted consistently with the New Zealand to be interpreted consistently with the New Zealand Bill to be interpreted consistently with the New Zealand Bill of to be interpreted consistently with the New Zealand Bill of Rights to be interpreted consistently with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, please the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, please know the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, please know we the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, please know we intend the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, please know we intend that the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, please know we intend that the the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, please know we intend that the bill please know we intend that the bill be please know we intend that the bill be interpreted please know we intend that the bill be interpreted in please know we intend that the bill be interpreted in a please know we intend that the bill be interpreted in a way please know we intend that the bill be interpreted in a way that please know we intend that the bill be interpreted in a way that is be interpreted in a way that is consistent be interpreted in a way that is consistent and be interpreted in a way that is consistent and able be interpreted in a way that is consistent and able to be interpreted in a way that is consistent and able to be be interpreted in a way that is consistent and able to be consistent consistent and able to be consistent with consistent and able to be consistent with NZ consistent and able to be consistent with NZ BORA. consistent and able to be consistent with NZ BORA. And consistent and able to be consistent with NZ BORA. And finally, consistent and able to be consistent with NZ BORA. And finally, amendment with NZ BORA. And finally, amendment paper with NZ BORA. And finally, amendment paper L with NZ BORA. And finally, amendment paper L for with NZ BORA. And finally, amendment paper L for Lima with NZ BORA. And finally, amendment paper L for Lima is with NZ BORA. And finally, amendment paper L for Lima is provided with NZ BORA. And finally, amendment paper L for Lima is provided again paper L for Lima is provided again by paper L for Lima is provided again by the paper L for Lima is provided again by the Hon paper L for Lima is provided again by the Hon Dr paper L for Lima is provided again by the Hon Dr Duncan paper L for Lima is provided again by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, paper L for Lima is provided again by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, that by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, that would by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, that would have by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, that would have a by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, that would have a broader by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, that would have a broader effect by the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, that would have a broader effect than would have a broader effect than just would have a broader effect than just this would have a broader effect than just this bill. would have a broader effect than just this bill. We would have a broader effect than just this bill. We don't would have a broader effect than just this bill. We don't propose would have a broader effect than just this bill. We don't propose to just this bill. We don't propose to accept just this bill. We don't propose to accept that just this bill. We don't propose to accept that or just this bill. We don't propose to accept that or vote just this bill. We don't propose to accept that or vote in just this bill. We don't propose to accept that or vote in favour just this bill. We don't propose to accept that or vote in favour of just this bill. We don't propose to accept that or vote in favour of it. accept that or vote in favour of it. James accept that or vote in favour of it. James Meager. accept that or vote in favour of it. James Meager. I accept that or vote in favour of it. James Meager. I move accept that or vote in favour of it. James Meager. I move that accept that or vote in favour of it. James Meager. I move that debate accept that or vote in favour of it. James Meager. I move that debate on James Meager. I move that debate on this James Meager. I move that debate on this question James Meager. I move that debate on this question now James Meager. I move that debate on this question now close. James Meager. I move that debate on this question now close. All James Meager. I move that debate on this question now close. All those this question now close. All those in this question now close. All those in favour this question now close. All those in favour please this question now close. All those in favour please say this question now close. All those in favour please say aye. this question now close. All those in favour please say aye. To this question now close. All those in favour please say aye. To the in favour please say aye. To the contrary in favour please say aye. To the contrary no. in favour please say aye. To the contrary no. Party in favour please say aye. To the contrary no. Party vote in favour please say aye. To the contrary no. Party vote has in favour please say aye. To the contrary no. Party vote has been contrary no. Party vote has been called contrary no. Party vote has been called for. contrary no. Party vote has been called for. The contrary no. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk contrary no. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk will contrary no. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct contrary no. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a called for. The Clerk will conduct a party called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 votes Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. Darleen INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: 1 Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes have The ayes have 68, The ayes have 68, the The ayes have 68, the noes The ayes have 68, the noes are The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The question The motion is agreed. The question is The motion is agreed. The question is Hon The motion is agreed. The question is Hon Dr The motion is agreed. The question is Hon Dr Duncan The motion is agreed. The question is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's The motion is agreed. The question is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to insert is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to insert clause is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to insert clause 37HB3 is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to insert clause 37HB3 be amendment to insert clause 37HB3 be agreed amendment to insert clause 37HB3 be agreed to. amendment to insert clause 37HB3 be agreed to. All amendment to insert clause 37HB3 be agreed to. All those amendment to insert clause 37HB3 be agreed to. All those in amendment to insert clause 37HB3 be agreed to. All those in favour amendment to insert clause 37HB3 be agreed to. All those in favour say agreed to. All those in favour say aye. agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The noes aye. To the contrary no. The noes have aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party vote aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party vote is aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party vote is called aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party vote is called for. have it. Party vote is called for. The have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes opposed. 49 votes opposed. New 49 votes opposed. New Zealand 49 votes opposed. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes in New Zealand Labour? 34 votes in favour. 34 votes in favour. Green 34 votes in favour. Green Party 34 votes in favour. Green Party of 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes in Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes in favour. 14 votes in favour. ACT 14 votes in favour. ACT New 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes opposed. 11 votes opposed. New 11 votes opposed. New Zealand 11 votes opposed. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes opposed. 8 votes opposed. Te 8 votes opposed. Te Paati 8 votes opposed. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 votes Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 votes in Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 votes in favour. INTERPRETER: 6 votes in favour. Darleen INTERPRETER: 6 votes in favour. Darleen Tana? The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 55, The ayes are 55, the The ayes are 55, the noes The ayes are 55, the noes are The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion is The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion is not The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion is not agreed. The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion is not agreed. The The motion is not agreed. The question The motion is not agreed. The question is The motion is not agreed. The question is that The motion is not agreed. The question is that part The motion is not agreed. The question is that part 5 The motion is not agreed. The question is that part 5 stand The motion is not agreed. The question is that part 5 stand part. question is that part 5 stand part. All question is that part 5 stand part. All those question is that part 5 stand part. All those in question is that part 5 stand part. All those in favour question is that part 5 stand part. All those in favour say. question is that part 5 stand part. All those in favour say. To question is that part 5 stand part. All those in favour say. To the All those in favour say. To the contrary All those in favour say. To the contrary no. All those in favour say. To the contrary no. The All those in favour say. To the contrary no. The ayes All those in favour say. To the contrary no. The ayes have All those in favour say. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. All those in favour say. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. The contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk vote has been called for. The Clerk will vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 votes Te Paati Maori? INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. Darleen INTERPRETER: 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: 1 Darleen Tana? INTERPRETER: 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes are The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now vote The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now vote on The motion is agreed. We now vote on schedule The motion is agreed. We now vote on schedule one The motion is agreed. We now vote on schedule one which The motion is agreed. We now vote on schedule one which has The motion is agreed. We now vote on schedule one which has no The motion is agreed. We now vote on schedule one which has no debate. schedule one which has no debate. The schedule one which has no debate. The question schedule one which has no debate. The question is schedule one which has no debate. The question is that schedule one which has no debate. The question is that schedule schedule one which has no debate. The question is that schedule 1 The question is that schedule 1 stand The question is that schedule 1 stand part. The question is that schedule 1 stand part. All The question is that schedule 1 stand part. All those The question is that schedule 1 stand part. All those in The question is that schedule 1 stand part. All those in favour The question is that schedule 1 stand part. All those in favour say stand part. All those in favour say aye. stand part. All those in favour say aye. To stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. A stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. A party aye. To the contrary no. A party vote aye. To the contrary no. A party vote has aye. To the contrary no. A party vote has been aye. To the contrary no. A party vote has been called aye. To the contrary no. A party vote has been called for. aye. To the contrary no. A party vote has been called for. The aye. To the contrary no. A party vote has been called for. The Clerk vote has been called for. The Clerk will vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes opposed. 6 votes opposed. Darleen 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes have The ayes have 68, The ayes have 68, the The ayes have 68, the noes The ayes have 68, the noes are The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now go The ayes have 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now go on The motion is agreed. We now go on schedule The motion is agreed. We now go on schedule 2 The motion is agreed. We now go on schedule 2 which The motion is agreed. We now go on schedule 2 which has The motion is agreed. We now go on schedule 2 which has no The motion is agreed. We now go on schedule 2 which has no debate. The motion is agreed. We now go on schedule 2 which has no debate. The schedule 2 which has no debate. The question schedule 2 which has no debate. The question is schedule 2 which has no debate. The question is schedule schedule 2 which has no debate. The question is schedule 2 schedule 2 which has no debate. The question is schedule 2 stand schedule 2 which has no debate. The question is schedule 2 stand part. question is schedule 2 stand part. All question is schedule 2 stand part. All those question is schedule 2 stand part. All those in question is schedule 2 stand part. All those in favour question is schedule 2 stand part. All those in favour say question is schedule 2 stand part. All those in favour say aye. question is schedule 2 stand part. All those in favour say aye. To question is schedule 2 stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the All those in favour say aye. To the contrary All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. The contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk vote has been called for. The Clerk will vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes opposed. 6 votes opposed. Darleen 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes 55, The ayes are 68, the noes 55, the The ayes are 68, the noes 55, the motion The ayes are 68, the noes 55, the motion is The ayes are 68, the noes 55, the motion is agreed. The ayes are 68, the noes 55, the motion is agreed. Schedule The ayes are 68, the noes 55, the motion is agreed. Schedule 3 The ayes are 68, the noes 55, the motion is agreed. Schedule 3 also motion is agreed. Schedule 3 also with motion is agreed. Schedule 3 also with no motion is agreed. Schedule 3 also with no debate. motion is agreed. Schedule 3 also with no debate. The motion is agreed. Schedule 3 also with no debate. The question motion is agreed. Schedule 3 also with no debate. The question is motion is agreed. Schedule 3 also with no debate. The question is that with no debate. The question is that schedule with no debate. The question is that schedule 3 with no debate. The question is that schedule 3 stand with no debate. The question is that schedule 3 stand part. with no debate. The question is that schedule 3 stand part. All with no debate. The question is that schedule 3 stand part. All those with no debate. The question is that schedule 3 stand part. All those in schedule 3 stand part. All those in favour schedule 3 stand part. All those in favour say schedule 3 stand part. All those in favour say aye. schedule 3 stand part. All those in favour say aye. To schedule 3 stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the schedule 3 stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary schedule 3 stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. favour say aye. To the contrary no. The favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is The ayes have it. Party vote is called The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a called for. The Clerk will conduct a party called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. 11 votes in 14 votes opposed. 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes opposed. 6 votes opposed. Darleen 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes are The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now come The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. We now come to The motion is agreed. We now come to schedule The motion is agreed. We now come to schedule 4 The motion is agreed. We now come to schedule 4 with The motion is agreed. We now come to schedule 4 with no The motion is agreed. We now come to schedule 4 with no debate. The motion is agreed. We now come to schedule 4 with no debate. The schedule 4 with no debate. The question schedule 4 with no debate. The question is schedule 4 with no debate. The question is that schedule 4 with no debate. The question is that the schedule 4 with no debate. The question is that the minister's question is that the minister's amendments question is that the minister's amendments to question is that the minister's amendments to schedule question is that the minister's amendments to schedule 4 question is that the minister's amendments to schedule 4 set question is that the minister's amendments to schedule 4 set out question is that the minister's amendments to schedule 4 set out on amendments to schedule 4 set out on A amendments to schedule 4 set out on A P amendments to schedule 4 set out on A P numbers amendments to schedule 4 set out on A P numbers 64 amendments to schedule 4 set out on A P numbers 64 and amendments to schedule 4 set out on A P numbers 64 and 51 amendments to schedule 4 set out on A P numbers 64 and 51 be amendments to schedule 4 set out on A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed amendments to schedule 4 set out on A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. All A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. All those A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. All those in A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. All those in favour A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. All those in favour say A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To A P numbers 64 and 51 be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the All those in favour say aye. To the contrary All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. The contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk vote has been called for. The Clerk will vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes opposed. 6 votes opposed. Darleen 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes are The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The question The motion is agreed. The question is The motion is agreed. The question is Hon The motion is agreed. The question is Hon Dr The motion is agreed. The question is Hon Dr Duncan The motion is agreed. The question is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's The motion is agreed. The question is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to clause is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to clause 17 is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to clause 17 of is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to clause 17 of schedule is Hon Dr Duncan Webb's tabled amendment to clause 17 of schedule 4 amendment to clause 17 of schedule 4 be amendment to clause 17 of schedule 4 be agreed amendment to clause 17 of schedule 4 be agreed to. amendment to clause 17 of schedule 4 be agreed to. All amendment to clause 17 of schedule 4 be agreed to. All those amendment to clause 17 of schedule 4 be agreed to. All those in amendment to clause 17 of schedule 4 be agreed to. All those in favour be agreed to. All those in favour say be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The say aye. To the contrary no. The noes say aye. To the contrary no. The noes have say aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. say aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party say aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party vote say aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party vote has say aye. To the contrary no. The noes have it. Party vote has been noes have it. Party vote has been called noes have it. Party vote has been called for. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes opposed. 49 votes opposed. New 49 votes opposed. New Zealand 49 votes opposed. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes in New Zealand Labour? 34 votes in favour. 34 votes in favour. Green 34 votes in favour. Green Party 34 votes in favour. Green Party of 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes in Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes in favour. 14 votes in favour. ACT 14 votes in favour. ACT New 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes opposed. 11 votes opposed. New 11 votes opposed. New Zealand 11 votes opposed. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes opposed. 8 votes opposed. Te 8 votes opposed. Te Paati 8 votes opposed. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes in Te Paati Maori? 6 votes in favour. 6 votes in favour. Darleen 6 votes in favour. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 in Darleen Tana? 1 in favour. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 55, The ayes are 55, the The ayes are 55, the noes The ayes are 55, the noes are The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion is The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion is not The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion is not agreed. The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The motion is not agreed. The The motion is not agreed. The question The motion is not agreed. The question is The motion is not agreed. The question is that The motion is not agreed. The question is that schedule The motion is not agreed. The question is that schedule 4 The motion is not agreed. The question is that schedule 4 as question is that schedule 4 as amended question is that schedule 4 as amended stand question is that schedule 4 as amended stand part. question is that schedule 4 as amended stand part. The question is that schedule 4 as amended stand part. The ayes question is that schedule 4 as amended stand part. The ayes have amended stand part. The ayes have it. amended stand part. The ayes have it. Party amended stand part. The ayes have it. Party vote amended stand part. The ayes have it. Party vote has amended stand part. The ayes have it. Party vote has been amended stand part. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called amended stand part. The ayes have it. Party vote has been called for. it. Party vote has been called for. The it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk will it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party it. Party vote has been called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. 11 11 votes in favour. 11 votes 11 votes in favour. 11 votes opposed. 11 votes opposed. 11 11 votes opposed. 11 votes 11 votes opposed. 11 votes in 11 votes opposed. 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes opposed. 6 votes opposed. Darleen 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes are The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. Members, The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The motion is agreed. Members, we The motion is agreed. Members, we now The motion is agreed. Members, we now come The motion is agreed. Members, we now come to The motion is agreed. Members, we now come to our The motion is agreed. Members, we now come to our final The motion is agreed. Members, we now come to our final debate The motion is agreed. Members, we now come to our final debate and now come to our final debate and this now come to our final debate and this is now come to our final debate and this is on now come to our final debate and this is on clauses now come to our final debate and this is on clauses 1 now come to our final debate and this is on clauses 1 and now come to our final debate and this is on clauses 1 and 2. now come to our final debate and this is on clauses 1 and 2. And this is on clauses 1 and 2. And these this is on clauses 1 and 2. And these are this is on clauses 1 and 2. And these are the this is on clauses 1 and 2. And these are the title this is on clauses 1 and 2. And these are the title and this is on clauses 1 and 2. And these are the title and commencement these are the title and commencement clauses. these are the title and commencement clauses. Lawrence these are the title and commencement clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. these are the title and commencement clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. Thanks, clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. Thanks, Madam clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. Thanks, Madam Chair. clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. Thanks, Madam Chair. In clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. Thanks, Madam Chair. In terms clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. Thanks, Madam Chair. In terms of clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. Thanks, Madam Chair. In terms of the clauses. Lawrence Xu-Nan. Thanks, Madam Chair. In terms of the title Madam Chair. In terms of the title of Madam Chair. In terms of the title of this Madam Chair. In terms of the title of this bill, Madam Chair. In terms of the title of this bill, Madam Madam Chair. In terms of the title of this bill, Madam Chair, Madam Chair. In terms of the title of this bill, Madam Chair, I Madam Chair. In terms of the title of this bill, Madam Chair, I think of this bill, Madam Chair, I think that of this bill, Madam Chair, I think that the of this bill, Madam Chair, I think that the Gangs of this bill, Madam Chair, I think that the Gangs Legislation of this bill, Madam Chair, I think that the Gangs Legislation Amendment that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill is that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill is a that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill is a missed that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill is a missed opportunity that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill is a missed opportunity and that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill is a missed opportunity and a Bill is a missed opportunity and a missed Bill is a missed opportunity and a missed direction Bill is a missed opportunity and a missed direction for Bill is a missed opportunity and a missed direction for what Bill is a missed opportunity and a missed direction for what this Bill is a missed opportunity and a missed direction for what this bill missed direction for what this bill actually missed direction for what this bill actually serves. missed direction for what this bill actually serves. So, missed direction for what this bill actually serves. So, Madam missed direction for what this bill actually serves. So, Madam Chair, missed direction for what this bill actually serves. So, Madam Chair, I actually serves. So, Madam Chair, I would actually serves. So, Madam Chair, I would recommend actually serves. So, Madam Chair, I would recommend that actually serves. So, Madam Chair, I would recommend that this actually serves. So, Madam Chair, I would recommend that this bill actually serves. So, Madam Chair, I would recommend that this bill be would recommend that this bill be renamed would recommend that this bill be renamed the would recommend that this bill be renamed the gangs would recommend that this bill be renamed the gangs fear would recommend that this bill be renamed the gangs fear mongering would recommend that this bill be renamed the gangs fear mongering and renamed the gangs fear mongering and division renamed the gangs fear mongering and division bill, renamed the gangs fear mongering and division bill, because renamed the gangs fear mongering and division bill, because that renamed the gangs fear mongering and division bill, because that is renamed the gangs fear mongering and division bill, because that is what division bill, because that is what this division bill, because that is what this bill division bill, because that is what this bill serves. division bill, because that is what this bill serves. Because, division bill, because that is what this bill serves. Because, Madam this bill serves. Because, Madam Chair, this bill serves. Because, Madam Chair, what this bill serves. Because, Madam Chair, what we this bill serves. Because, Madam Chair, what we have this bill serves. Because, Madam Chair, what we have been this bill serves. Because, Madam Chair, what we have been seeing this bill serves. Because, Madam Chair, what we have been seeing and Chair, what we have been seeing and what Chair, what we have been seeing and what we've Chair, what we have been seeing and what we've been Chair, what we have been seeing and what we've been hearing Chair, what we have been seeing and what we've been hearing from Chair, what we have been seeing and what we've been hearing from the what we've been hearing from the minister what we've been hearing from the minister is what we've been hearing from the minister is around what we've been hearing from the minister is around the what we've been hearing from the minister is around the fear what we've been hearing from the minister is around the fear of minister is around the fear of gangs, minister is around the fear of gangs, but minister is around the fear of gangs, but at minister is around the fear of gangs, but at no minister is around the fear of gangs, but at no point minister is around the fear of gangs, but at no point is minister is around the fear of gangs, but at no point is the gangs, but at no point is the minister gangs, but at no point is the minister actually gangs, but at no point is the minister actually addressing gangs, but at no point is the minister actually addressing the minister actually addressing the root minister actually addressing the root causes minister actually addressing the root causes of minister actually addressing the root causes of gangs minister actually addressing the root causes of gangs in minister actually addressing the root causes of gangs in Aotearoa. root causes of gangs in Aotearoa. Madam root causes of gangs in Aotearoa. Madam Chair, root causes of gangs in Aotearoa. Madam Chair, what root causes of gangs in Aotearoa. Madam Chair, what we're root causes of gangs in Aotearoa. Madam Chair, what we're hearing root causes of gangs in Aotearoa. Madam Chair, what we're hearing the Madam Chair, what we're hearing the minister Madam Chair, what we're hearing the minister mentioning, Madam Chair, what we're hearing the minister mentioning, a Madam Chair, what we're hearing the minister mentioning, a lot Madam Chair, what we're hearing the minister mentioning, a lot of Madam Chair, what we're hearing the minister mentioning, a lot of talks minister mentioning, a lot of talks about minister mentioning, a lot of talks about the minister mentioning, a lot of talks about the fact minister mentioning, a lot of talks about the fact the minister mentioning, a lot of talks about the fact the Greens minister mentioning, a lot of talks about the fact the Greens have about the fact the Greens have mentioned about the fact the Greens have mentioned about about the fact the Greens have mentioned about colours, about the fact the Greens have mentioned about colours, and about the fact the Greens have mentioned about colours, and the mentioned about colours, and the fact mentioned about colours, and the fact we mentioned about colours, and the fact we can't mentioned about colours, and the fact we can't wear mentioned about colours, and the fact we can't wear certain mentioned about colours, and the fact we can't wear certain colours fact we can't wear certain colours in fact we can't wear certain colours in certain fact we can't wear certain colours in certain places. fact we can't wear certain colours in certain places. But, fact we can't wear certain colours in certain places. But, Madam fact we can't wear certain colours in certain places. But, Madam Chair, in certain places. But, Madam Chair, there's in certain places. But, Madam Chair, there's many in certain places. But, Madam Chair, there's many other in certain places. But, Madam Chair, there's many other instances in certain places. But, Madam Chair, there's many other instances we in certain places. But, Madam Chair, there's many other instances we may there's many other instances we may not there's many other instances we may not wear there's many other instances we may not wear a there's many other instances we may not wear a certain there's many other instances we may not wear a certain colour, there's many other instances we may not wear a certain colour, for not wear a certain colour, for example, not wear a certain colour, for example, when not wear a certain colour, for example, when you not wear a certain colour, for example, when you are not wear a certain colour, for example, when you are supporting not wear a certain colour, for example, when you are supporting a example, when you are supporting a particular example, when you are supporting a particular sports example, when you are supporting a particular sports team, example, when you are supporting a particular sports team, I example, when you are supporting a particular sports team, I think example, when you are supporting a particular sports team, I think if particular sports team, I think if you're particular sports team, I think if you're supporting particular sports team, I think if you're supporting a particular sports team, I think if you're supporting a particular you're supporting a particular football you're supporting a particular football team you're supporting a particular football team in you're supporting a particular football team in the you're supporting a particular football team in the UK, you're supporting a particular football team in the UK, and you're supporting a particular football team in the UK, and you football team in the UK, and you support football team in the UK, and you support Manchester football team in the UK, and you support Manchester instead football team in the UK, and you support Manchester instead of support Manchester instead of Liverpool, support Manchester instead of Liverpool, there support Manchester instead of Liverpool, there will support Manchester instead of Liverpool, there will be support Manchester instead of Liverpool, there will be certain Liverpool, there will be certain colours Liverpool, there will be certain colours you Liverpool, there will be certain colours you won't Liverpool, there will be certain colours you won't be Liverpool, there will be certain colours you won't be wearing Liverpool, there will be certain colours you won't be wearing both Liverpool, there will be certain colours you won't be wearing both in colours you won't be wearing both in terms colours you won't be wearing both in terms of colours you won't be wearing both in terms of the colours you won't be wearing both in terms of the respect colours you won't be wearing both in terms of the respect you colours you won't be wearing both in terms of the respect you have colours you won't be wearing both in terms of the respect you have for terms of the respect you have for the terms of the respect you have for the team, terms of the respect you have for the team, but terms of the respect you have for the team, but also... terms of the respect you have for the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> ..but the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> ..but also the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> ..but also in the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> ..but also in terms the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> ..but also in terms of the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> ..but also in terms of what the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> ..but also in terms of what - the team, but also... <INTERRUPTION> ..but also in terms of what - also ..but also in terms of what - also in ..but also in terms of what - also in terms ..but also in terms of what - also in terms of ..but also in terms of what - also in terms of other ..but also in terms of what - also in terms of other things. ..but also in terms of what - also in terms of other things. I ..but also in terms of what - also in terms of other things. I won't ..but also in terms of what - also in terms of other things. I won't be in terms of other things. I won't be wearing in terms of other things. I won't be wearing certain in terms of other things. I won't be wearing certain colours, in terms of other things. I won't be wearing certain colours, for wearing certain colours, for example, wearing certain colours, for example, I wearing certain colours, for example, I won't wearing certain colours, for example, I won't be wearing certain colours, for example, I won't be wearing wearing certain colours, for example, I won't be wearing blue wearing certain colours, for example, I won't be wearing blue in example, I won't be wearing blue in certain example, I won't be wearing blue in certain instances example, I won't be wearing blue in certain instances for example, I won't be wearing blue in certain instances for thinking example, I won't be wearing blue in certain instances for thinking I example, I won't be wearing blue in certain instances for thinking I may certain instances for thinking I may be certain instances for thinking I may be mistaken certain instances for thinking I may be mistaken for certain instances for thinking I may be mistaken for another certain instances for thinking I may be mistaken for another political be mistaken for another political party, be mistaken for another political party, because be mistaken for another political party, because a be mistaken for another political party, because a lot be mistaken for another political party, because a lot of be mistaken for another political party, because a lot of people be mistaken for another political party, because a lot of people think party, because a lot of people think Chinese party, because a lot of people think Chinese people party, because a lot of people think Chinese people all party, because a lot of people think Chinese people all vote party, because a lot of people think Chinese people all vote for party, because a lot of people think Chinese people all vote for one Chinese people all vote for one particular Chinese people all vote for one particular party. Chinese people all vote for one particular party. There Chinese people all vote for one particular party. There was Chinese people all vote for one particular party. There was no particular party. There was no evidence particular party. There was no evidence in particular party. There was no evidence in the particular party. There was no evidence in the regulatory particular party. There was no evidence in the regulatory impact evidence in the regulatory impact statement, evidence in the regulatory impact statement, particularly evidence in the regulatory impact statement, particularly page evidence in the regulatory impact statement, particularly page 30, statement, particularly page 30, that statement, particularly page 30, that ever statement, particularly page 30, that ever suggested, statement, particularly page 30, that ever suggested, this statement, particularly page 30, that ever suggested, this is statement, particularly page 30, that ever suggested, this is from that ever suggested, this is from the that ever suggested, this is from the Ministry that ever suggested, this is from the Ministry of that ever suggested, this is from the Ministry of Justice, that ever suggested, this is from the Ministry of Justice, that that ever suggested, this is from the Ministry of Justice, that ever the Ministry of Justice, that ever suggested the Ministry of Justice, that ever suggested this the Ministry of Justice, that ever suggested this legislation the Ministry of Justice, that ever suggested this legislation is the Ministry of Justice, that ever suggested this legislation is going suggested this legislation is going to suggested this legislation is going to do suggested this legislation is going to do anything suggested this legislation is going to do anything but suggested this legislation is going to do anything but harm suggested this legislation is going to do anything but harm the to do anything but harm the relationship to do anything but harm the relationship that to do anything but harm the relationship that we to do anything but harm the relationship that we have to do anything but harm the relationship that we have within to do anything but harm the relationship that we have within our relationship that we have within our own relationship that we have within our own communities. relationship that we have within our own communities. But relationship that we have within our own communities. But I relationship that we have within our own communities. But I also relationship that we have within our own communities. But I also think own communities. But I also think with own communities. But I also think with the own communities. But I also think with the things own communities. But I also think with the things that own communities. But I also think with the things that also own communities. But I also think with the things that also -- own communities. But I also think with the things that also -- one own communities. But I also think with the things that also -- one of with the things that also -- one of the with the things that also -- one of the things with the things that also -- one of the things that with the things that also -- one of the things that could with the things that also -- one of the things that could be with the things that also -- one of the things that could be an the things that could be an alternative the things that could be an alternative when the things that could be an alternative when we're the things that could be an alternative when we're looking the things that could be an alternative when we're looking at alternative when we're looking at the alternative when we're looking at the title alternative when we're looking at the title of alternative when we're looking at the title of this alternative when we're looking at the title of this bill, alternative when we're looking at the title of this bill, cooing alternative when we're looking at the title of this bill, cooing could the title of this bill, cooing could be the title of this bill, cooing could be Unwilling the title of this bill, cooing could be Unwilling to the title of this bill, cooing could be Unwilling to Address the title of this bill, cooing could be Unwilling to Address Systemic be Unwilling to Address Systemic Trauma be Unwilling to Address Systemic Trauma That be Unwilling to Address Systemic Trauma That Contributes be Unwilling to Address Systemic Trauma That Contributes to be Unwilling to Address Systemic Trauma That Contributes to the be Unwilling to Address Systemic Trauma That Contributes to the Root Trauma That Contributes to the Root Causes Trauma That Contributes to the Root Causes of Trauma That Contributes to the Root Causes of Gangs Trauma That Contributes to the Root Causes of Gangs Bill, Trauma That Contributes to the Root Causes of Gangs Bill, this Trauma That Contributes to the Root Causes of Gangs Bill, this bill Causes of Gangs Bill, this bill itself Causes of Gangs Bill, this bill itself does Causes of Gangs Bill, this bill itself does not Causes of Gangs Bill, this bill itself does not address Causes of Gangs Bill, this bill itself does not address any Causes of Gangs Bill, this bill itself does not address any of Causes of Gangs Bill, this bill itself does not address any of that. itself does not address any of that. It itself does not address any of that. It simply itself does not address any of that. It simply is itself does not address any of that. It simply is putting itself does not address any of that. It simply is putting a itself does not address any of that. It simply is putting a plaster itself does not address any of that. It simply is putting a plaster on itself does not address any of that. It simply is putting a plaster on a It simply is putting a plaster on a much It simply is putting a plaster on a much bigger It simply is putting a plaster on a much bigger wound. It simply is putting a plaster on a much bigger wound. And It simply is putting a plaster on a much bigger wound. And there's much bigger wound. And there's nothing much bigger wound. And there's nothing that much bigger wound. And there's nothing that suggests much bigger wound. And there's nothing that suggests this much bigger wound. And there's nothing that suggests this plaster nothing that suggests this plaster is nothing that suggests this plaster is going nothing that suggests this plaster is going to nothing that suggests this plaster is going to be nothing that suggests this plaster is going to be working nothing that suggests this plaster is going to be working for nothing that suggests this plaster is going to be working for that. nothing that suggests this plaster is going to be working for that. So, is going to be working for that. So, Madam is going to be working for that. So, Madam Chair, is going to be working for that. So, Madam Chair, I is going to be working for that. So, Madam Chair, I would is going to be working for that. So, Madam Chair, I would seriously Madam Chair, I would seriously implore Madam Chair, I would seriously implore the Madam Chair, I would seriously implore the minister Madam Chair, I would seriously implore the minister to Madam Chair, I would seriously implore the minister to reconsider implore the minister to reconsider the implore the minister to reconsider the necessity implore the minister to reconsider the necessity of implore the minister to reconsider the necessity of this implore the minister to reconsider the necessity of this bill implore the minister to reconsider the necessity of this bill and implore the minister to reconsider the necessity of this bill and what the necessity of this bill and what this the necessity of this bill and what this bill the necessity of this bill and what this bill will the necessity of this bill and what this bill will do the necessity of this bill and what this bill will do to the necessity of this bill and what this bill will do to our this bill will do to our communities. this bill will do to our communities. Now, this bill will do to our communities. Now, throughout this bill will do to our communities. Now, throughout this communities. Now, throughout this debate communities. Now, throughout this debate we communities. Now, throughout this debate we have communities. Now, throughout this debate we have mentioned communities. Now, throughout this debate we have mentioned a communities. Now, throughout this debate we have mentioned a variety debate we have mentioned a variety of debate we have mentioned a variety of factors debate we have mentioned a variety of factors that debate we have mentioned a variety of factors that means debate we have mentioned a variety of factors that means this debate we have mentioned a variety of factors that means this bill debate we have mentioned a variety of factors that means this bill is of factors that means this bill is not of factors that means this bill is not evidence-based. of factors that means this bill is not evidence-based. There's of factors that means this bill is not evidence-based. There's things not evidence-based. There's things we not evidence-based. There's things we have not evidence-based. There's things we have not not evidence-based. There's things we have not thought not evidence-based. There's things we have not thought out, not evidence-based. There's things we have not thought out, in not evidence-based. There's things we have not thought out, in terms not evidence-based. There's things we have not thought out, in terms of we have not thought out, in terms of this we have not thought out, in terms of this bill, we have not thought out, in terms of this bill, Madam we have not thought out, in terms of this bill, Madam Chair. we have not thought out, in terms of this bill, Madam Chair. I we have not thought out, in terms of this bill, Madam Chair. I think, we have not thought out, in terms of this bill, Madam Chair. I think, if this bill, Madam Chair. I think, if we're this bill, Madam Chair. I think, if we're looking this bill, Madam Chair. I think, if we're looking at this bill, Madam Chair. I think, if we're looking at this this bill, Madam Chair. I think, if we're looking at this purist, this bill, Madam Chair. I think, if we're looking at this purist, I we're looking at this purist, I would we're looking at this purist, I would go we're looking at this purist, I would go to, we're looking at this purist, I would go to, all we're looking at this purist, I would go to, all things we're looking at this purist, I would go to, all things aside, we're looking at this purist, I would go to, all things aside, I would go to, all things aside, I would would go to, all things aside, I would go would go to, all things aside, I would go to would go to, all things aside, I would go to my would go to, all things aside, I would go to my amendment would go to, all things aside, I would go to my amendment paper would go to, all things aside, I would go to my amendment paper on would go to my amendment paper on the would go to my amendment paper on the change would go to my amendment paper on the change of would go to my amendment paper on the change of the would go to my amendment paper on the change of the title. would go to my amendment paper on the change of the title. Because would go to my amendment paper on the change of the title. Because I the change of the title. Because I do the change of the title. Because I do think the change of the title. Because I do think that the change of the title. Because I do think that the the change of the title. Because I do think that the Gangs the change of the title. Because I do think that the Gangs Legislation do think that the Gangs Legislation Amendment do think that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill do think that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill does do think that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill does not do think that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill does not reflect do think that the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill does not reflect the Amendment Bill does not reflect the true Amendment Bill does not reflect the true intent Amendment Bill does not reflect the true intent of Amendment Bill does not reflect the true intent of this, Amendment Bill does not reflect the true intent of this, or Amendment Bill does not reflect the true intent of this, or any Amendment Bill does not reflect the true intent of this, or any sort Amendment Bill does not reflect the true intent of this, or any sort of true intent of this, or any sort of specific true intent of this, or any sort of specific elements true intent of this, or any sort of specific elements of true intent of this, or any sort of specific elements of this. true intent of this, or any sort of specific elements of this. And true intent of this, or any sort of specific elements of this. And just specific elements of this. And just to specific elements of this. And just to be specific elements of this. And just to be sort specific elements of this. And just to be sort of specific elements of this. And just to be sort of particularly specific elements of this. And just to be sort of particularly factual to be sort of particularly factual and to be sort of particularly factual and process to be sort of particularly factual and process based, to be sort of particularly factual and process based, I to be sort of particularly factual and process based, I think to be sort of particularly factual and process based, I think in to be sort of particularly factual and process based, I think in terms and process based, I think in terms of and process based, I think in terms of the and process based, I think in terms of the content, and process based, I think in terms of the content, when and process based, I think in terms of the content, when we're and process based, I think in terms of the content, when we're looking of the content, when we're looking at of the content, when we're looking at part of the content, when we're looking at part 2 of the content, when we're looking at part 2 and of the content, when we're looking at part 2 and part of the content, when we're looking at part 2 and part 3 of the content, when we're looking at part 2 and part 3 of of the content, when we're looking at part 2 and part 3 of this of the content, when we're looking at part 2 and part 3 of this bill, at part 2 and part 3 of this bill, the at part 2 and part 3 of this bill, the substantial at part 2 and part 3 of this bill, the substantial elements at part 2 and part 3 of this bill, the substantial elements of at part 2 and part 3 of this bill, the substantial elements of this, the substantial elements of this, the the substantial elements of this, the gangs the substantial elements of this, the gangs insignia the substantial elements of this, the gangs insignia and the substantial elements of this, the gangs insignia and dispersement the gangs insignia and dispersement amendment the gangs insignia and dispersement amendment bill the gangs insignia and dispersement amendment bill is the gangs insignia and dispersement amendment bill is a the gangs insignia and dispersement amendment bill is a much the gangs insignia and dispersement amendment bill is a much more amendment bill is a much more accurate amendment bill is a much more accurate reflection amendment bill is a much more accurate reflection of amendment bill is a much more accurate reflection of the amendment bill is a much more accurate reflection of the content accurate reflection of the content of accurate reflection of the content of the accurate reflection of the content of the bill, accurate reflection of the content of the bill, as accurate reflection of the content of the bill, as opposed accurate reflection of the content of the bill, as opposed to accurate reflection of the content of the bill, as opposed to the accurate reflection of the content of the bill, as opposed to the Gangs of the bill, as opposed to the Gangs Legislation of the bill, as opposed to the Gangs Legislation Amendment of the bill, as opposed to the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill, of the bill, as opposed to the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill, which of the bill, as opposed to the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill, which is Legislation Amendment Bill, which is not Legislation Amendment Bill, which is not incredibly Legislation Amendment Bill, which is not incredibly descriptive Legislation Amendment Bill, which is not incredibly descriptive of Legislation Amendment Bill, which is not incredibly descriptive of its not incredibly descriptive of its content. not incredibly descriptive of its content. I not incredibly descriptive of its content. I would not incredibly descriptive of its content. I would hope not incredibly descriptive of its content. I would hope that, not incredibly descriptive of its content. I would hope that, with content. I would hope that, with everything content. I would hope that, with everything else content. I would hope that, with everything else I content. I would hope that, with everything else I mentioned content. I would hope that, with everything else I mentioned aside, everything else I mentioned aside, the everything else I mentioned aside, the minister everything else I mentioned aside, the minister could everything else I mentioned aside, the minister could seriously the minister could seriously consider the minister could seriously consider my the minister could seriously consider my amendment the minister could seriously consider my amendment to the minister could seriously consider my amendment to the the minister could seriously consider my amendment to the change consider my amendment to the change of consider my amendment to the change of the consider my amendment to the change of the title, consider my amendment to the change of the title, to consider my amendment to the change of the title, to Gangs consider my amendment to the change of the title, to Gangs Insignia consider my amendment to the change of the title, to Gangs Insignia and of the title, to Gangs Insignia and Dispersement of the title, to Gangs Insignia and Dispersement Amendment of the title, to Gangs Insignia and Dispersement Amendment Bill. of the title, to Gangs Insignia and Dispersement Amendment Bill. I of the title, to Gangs Insignia and Dispersement Amendment Bill. I think Dispersement Amendment Bill. I think the Dispersement Amendment Bill. I think the appropriate Dispersement Amendment Bill. I think the appropriate name Dispersement Amendment Bill. I think the appropriate name for Dispersement Amendment Bill. I think the appropriate name for the Dispersement Amendment Bill. I think the appropriate name for the bill the appropriate name for the bill would the appropriate name for the bill would be the appropriate name for the bill would be probably, the appropriate name for the bill would be probably, Madam the appropriate name for the bill would be probably, Madam Chair, the appropriate name for the bill would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick the would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick the Maoris would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick the Maoris in would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick the Maoris in the would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick the Maoris in the Guts would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick the Maoris in the Guts Again would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick the Maoris in the Guts Again Bill. would be probably, Madam Chair, Kick the Maoris in the Guts Again Bill. I the Maoris in the Guts Again Bill. I think the Maoris in the Guts Again Bill. I think that's the Maoris in the Guts Again Bill. I think that's probably the Maoris in the Guts Again Bill. I think that's probably a the Maoris in the Guts Again Bill. I think that's probably a better think that's probably a better title. think that's probably a better title. I'm think that's probably a better title. I'm serious think that's probably a better title. I'm serious about think that's probably a better title. I'm serious about this. think that's probably a better title. I'm serious about this. This title. I'm serious about this. This is title. I'm serious about this. This is happening title. I'm serious about this. This is happening every title. I'm serious about this. This is happening every week title. I'm serious about this. This is happening every week from title. I'm serious about this. This is happening every week from the is happening every week from the Government. is happening every week from the Government. So, is happening every week from the Government. So, I is happening every week from the Government. So, I think is happening every week from the Government. So, I think if is happening every week from the Government. So, I think if we is happening every week from the Government. So, I think if we think Government. So, I think if we think about Government. So, I think if we think about it, Government. So, I think if we think about it, I Government. So, I think if we think about it, I know Government. So, I think if we think about it, I know there Government. So, I think if we think about it, I know there was Government. So, I think if we think about it, I know there was a Government. So, I think if we think about it, I know there was a nice about it, I know there was a nice title about it, I know there was a nice title from about it, I know there was a nice title from my about it, I know there was a nice title from my friend about it, I know there was a nice title from my friend over about it, I know there was a nice title from my friend over there, about it, I know there was a nice title from my friend over there, the title from my friend over there, the Green title from my friend over there, the Green - title from my friend over there, the Green - but title from my friend over there, the Green - but I title from my friend over there, the Green - but I think title from my friend over there, the Green - but I think kick title from my friend over there, the Green - but I think kick the title from my friend over there, the Green - but I think kick the Maoris Green - but I think kick the Maoris in Green - but I think kick the Maoris in the Green - but I think kick the Maoris in the guts Green - but I think kick the Maoris in the guts again Green - but I think kick the Maoris in the guts again from Green - but I think kick the Maoris in the guts again from the in the guts again from the Government in the guts again from the Government bill in the guts again from the Government bill would in the guts again from the Government bill would be in the guts again from the Government bill would be a in the guts again from the Government bill would be a much Government bill would be a much better Government bill would be a much better title. Government bill would be a much better title. I Government bill would be a much better title. I think Government bill would be a much better title. I think this Government bill would be a much better title. I think this bill, better title. I think this bill, Madam better title. I think this bill, Madam Chair, better title. I think this bill, Madam Chair, and better title. I think this bill, Madam Chair, and I'm better title. I think this bill, Madam Chair, and I'm not better title. I think this bill, Madam Chair, and I'm not just better title. I think this bill, Madam Chair, and I'm not just - better title. I think this bill, Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm not Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm not the Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm not the first Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm not the first one Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm not the first one to Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm not the first one to say Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm not the first one to say this, Madam Chair, and I'm not just - I'm not the first one to say this, so not the first one to say this, so many not the first one to say this, so many people not the first one to say this, so many people are not the first one to say this, so many people are saying not the first one to say this, so many people are saying that, not the first one to say this, so many people are saying that, out many people are saying that, out there, many people are saying that, out there, I many people are saying that, out there, I think many people are saying that, out there, I think that many people are saying that, out there, I think that James many people are saying that, out there, I think that James Meager there, I think that James Meager agrees there, I think that James Meager agrees with there, I think that James Meager agrees with me there, I think that James Meager agrees with me in there, I think that James Meager agrees with me in his there, I think that James Meager agrees with me in his heart, there, I think that James Meager agrees with me in his heart, if there, I think that James Meager agrees with me in his heart, if he agrees with me in his heart, if he thinks agrees with me in his heart, if he thinks about agrees with me in his heart, if he thinks about it. agrees with me in his heart, if he thinks about it. <INTERRUPTION> thinks about it. <INTERRUPTION> Every thinks about it. <INTERRUPTION> Every week, thinks about it. <INTERRUPTION> Every week, Madam thinks about it. <INTERRUPTION> Every week, Madam Chair, thinks about it. <INTERRUPTION> Every week, Madam Chair, Maori thinks about it. <INTERRUPTION> Every week, Madam Chair, Maori are Every week, Madam Chair, Maori are under Every week, Madam Chair, Maori are under attack. Every week, Madam Chair, Maori are under attack. So Every week, Madam Chair, Maori are under attack. So that's Every week, Madam Chair, Maori are under attack. So that's why Every week, Madam Chair, Maori are under attack. So that's why I'm under attack. So that's why I'm saying... under attack. So that's why I'm saying... Can under attack. So that's why I'm saying... Can I under attack. So that's why I'm saying... Can I just under attack. So that's why I'm saying... Can I just ask under attack. So that's why I'm saying... Can I just ask the under attack. So that's why I'm saying... Can I just ask the member saying... Can I just ask the member for saying... Can I just ask the member for a saying... Can I just ask the member for a moment saying... Can I just ask the member for a moment just saying... Can I just ask the member for a moment just to saying... Can I just ask the member for a moment just to lift saying... Can I just ask the member for a moment just to lift the for a moment just to lift the conversation. for a moment just to lift the conversation. I for a moment just to lift the conversation. I heard for a moment just to lift the conversation. I heard a for a moment just to lift the conversation. I heard a lot for a moment just to lift the conversation. I heard a lot of conversation. I heard a lot of debate conversation. I heard a lot of debate in conversation. I heard a lot of debate in this conversation. I heard a lot of debate in this piece conversation. I heard a lot of debate in this piece of conversation. I heard a lot of debate in this piece of legislation. debate in this piece of legislation. I debate in this piece of legislation. I heard debate in this piece of legislation. I heard very debate in this piece of legislation. I heard very good debate in this piece of legislation. I heard very good forthcoming I heard very good forthcoming speeches I heard very good forthcoming speeches about I heard very good forthcoming speeches about this I heard very good forthcoming speeches about this is I heard very good forthcoming speeches about this is about I heard very good forthcoming speeches about this is about the speeches about this is about the gangs speeches about this is about the gangs and speeches about this is about the gangs and there's speeches about this is about the gangs and there's a speeches about this is about the gangs and there's a small speeches about this is about the gangs and there's a small proportion gangs and there's a small proportion of gangs and there's a small proportion of those gangs and there's a small proportion of those gangs gangs and there's a small proportion of those gangs who gangs and there's a small proportion of those gangs who are gangs and there's a small proportion of those gangs who are in gangs and there's a small proportion of those gangs who are in fact of those gangs who are in fact Maori. of those gangs who are in fact Maori. So, of those gangs who are in fact Maori. So, can of those gangs who are in fact Maori. So, can we of those gangs who are in fact Maori. So, can we keep of those gangs who are in fact Maori. So, can we keep this Maori. So, can we keep this conversation... Maori. So, can we keep this conversation... <INTERRUPTION> conversation... <INTERRUPTION> I conversation... <INTERRUPTION> I did conversation... <INTERRUPTION> I did hear conversation... <INTERRUPTION> I did hear the conversation... <INTERRUPTION> I did hear the minister conversation... <INTERRUPTION> I did hear the minister who conversation... <INTERRUPTION> I did hear the minister who was conversation... <INTERRUPTION> I did hear the minister who was in I did hear the minister who was in the I did hear the minister who was in the chair I did hear the minister who was in the chair at I did hear the minister who was in the chair at the I did hear the minister who was in the chair at the time I did hear the minister who was in the chair at the time acknowledge the chair at the time acknowledge that. the chair at the time acknowledge that. So, the chair at the time acknowledge that. So, I the chair at the time acknowledge that. So, I think the chair at the time acknowledge that. So, I think could the chair at the time acknowledge that. So, I think could we the chair at the time acknowledge that. So, I think could we make the chair at the time acknowledge that. So, I think could we make it that. So, I think could we make it about that. So, I think could we make it about the that. So, I think could we make it about the gangs. that. So, I think could we make it about the gangs. And that. So, I think could we make it about the gangs. And the that. So, I think could we make it about the gangs. And the title that. So, I think could we make it about the gangs. And the title and about the gangs. And the title and the about the gangs. And the title and the commencement about the gangs. And the title and the commencement of about the gangs. And the title and the commencement of the about the gangs. And the title and the commencement of the gangs. about the gangs. And the title and the commencement of the gangs. I'm the commencement of the gangs. I'm giving the commencement of the gangs. I'm giving you the commencement of the gangs. I'm giving you a the commencement of the gangs. I'm giving you a suggestion the commencement of the gangs. I'm giving you a suggestion in the commencement of the gangs. I'm giving you a suggestion in terms the commencement of the gangs. I'm giving you a suggestion in terms of giving you a suggestion in terms of the giving you a suggestion in terms of the title giving you a suggestion in terms of the title and giving you a suggestion in terms of the title and giving giving you a suggestion in terms of the title and giving you giving you a suggestion in terms of the title and giving you some giving you a suggestion in terms of the title and giving you some bad the title and giving you some bad for the title and giving you some bad for the the title and giving you some bad for the -- the title and giving you some bad for the -- some the title and giving you some bad for the -- some basis the title and giving you some bad for the -- some basis for the title and giving you some bad for the -- some basis for the the title and giving you some bad for the -- some basis for the title. for the -- some basis for the title. I for the -- some basis for the title. I want for the -- some basis for the title. I want to for the -- some basis for the title. I want to elaborate. for the -- some basis for the title. I want to elaborate. I for the -- some basis for the title. I want to elaborate. I think for the -- some basis for the title. I want to elaborate. I think Maori I want to elaborate. I think Maori leaders, I want to elaborate. I think Maori leaders, gang I want to elaborate. I think Maori leaders, gang leaders, I want to elaborate. I think Maori leaders, gang leaders, Madam I want to elaborate. I think Maori leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, talk leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, talk to leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, talk to me. leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, talk to me. I leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, talk to me. I think leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, talk to me. I think I leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, talk to me. I think I know leaders, gang leaders, Madam Chair, talk to me. I think I know with talk to me. I think I know with respect talk to me. I think I know with respect more talk to me. I think I know with respect more gang talk to me. I think I know with respect more gang members talk to me. I think I know with respect more gang members than talk to me. I think I know with respect more gang members than most respect more gang members than most people respect more gang members than most people in respect more gang members than most people in this respect more gang members than most people in this House. respect more gang members than most people in this House. I respect more gang members than most people in this House. I suppose people in this House. I suppose that's people in this House. I suppose that's not people in this House. I suppose that's not something people in this House. I suppose that's not something to people in this House. I suppose that's not something to be people in this House. I suppose that's not something to be proud that's not something to be proud about, that's not something to be proud about, but that's not something to be proud about, but I've that's not something to be proud about, but I've been that's not something to be proud about, but I've been raised that's not something to be proud about, but I've been raised around about, but I've been raised around many about, but I've been raised around many gang about, but I've been raised around many gang members, about, but I've been raised around many gang members, many about, but I've been raised around many gang members, many who about, but I've been raised around many gang members, many who have many gang members, many who have turned many gang members, many who have turned their many gang members, many who have turned their lives many gang members, many who have turned their lives around. many gang members, many who have turned their lives around. Many many gang members, many who have turned their lives around. Many who turned their lives around. Many who turned turned their lives around. Many who turned their turned their lives around. Many who turned their lives turned their lives around. Many who turned their lives around. turned their lives around. Many who turned their lives around. Some turned their lives around. Many who turned their lives around. Some of turned their lives around. Some of them turned their lives around. Some of them who turned their lives around. Some of them who would turned their lives around. Some of them who would be turned their lives around. Some of them who would be working turned their lives around. Some of them who would be working with turned their lives around. Some of them who would be working with this them who would be working with this Government, them who would be working with this Government, and them who would be working with this Government, and good them who would be working with this Government, and good on them who would be working with this Government, and good on this Government, and good on this Government Government, and good on this Government for Government, and good on this Government for wanting Government, and good on this Government for wanting to Government, and good on this Government for wanting to work Government, and good on this Government for wanting to work with Government for wanting to work with some Government for wanting to work with some of Government for wanting to work with some of these Government for wanting to work with some of these gang Government for wanting to work with some of these gang members. Government for wanting to work with some of these gang members. You some of these gang members. You won't some of these gang members. You won't get some of these gang members. You won't get to some of these gang members. You won't get to the some of these gang members. You won't get to the root some of these gang members. You won't get to the root of some of these gang members. You won't get to the root of the some of these gang members. You won't get to the root of the problem won't get to the root of the problem if won't get to the root of the problem if you won't get to the root of the problem if you don't won't get to the root of the problem if you don't work won't get to the root of the problem if you don't work with won't get to the root of the problem if you don't work with the won't get to the root of the problem if you don't work with the Eugene if you don't work with the Eugene Riders if you don't work with the Eugene Riders of if you don't work with the Eugene Riders of this if you don't work with the Eugene Riders of this world, if you don't work with the Eugene Riders of this world, the if you don't work with the Eugene Riders of this world, the Denis Riders of this world, the Denis O'Reillys Riders of this world, the Denis O'Reillys of Riders of this world, the Denis O'Reillys of the Riders of this world, the Denis O'Reillys of the world. Riders of this world, the Denis O'Reillys of the world. I've Riders of this world, the Denis O'Reillys of the world. I've been O'Reillys of the world. I've been around O'Reillys of the world. I've been around many O'Reillys of the world. I've been around many of O'Reillys of the world. I've been around many of them, O'Reillys of the world. I've been around many of them, and O'Reillys of the world. I've been around many of them, and I've O'Reillys of the world. I've been around many of them, and I've been around many of them, and I've been no around many of them, and I've been no big around many of them, and I've been no big fan around many of them, and I've been no big fan of around many of them, and I've been no big fan of gangs, around many of them, and I've been no big fan of gangs, Madam around many of them, and I've been no big fan of gangs, Madam Chair, around many of them, and I've been no big fan of gangs, Madam Chair, at no big fan of gangs, Madam Chair, at all. no big fan of gangs, Madam Chair, at all. For no big fan of gangs, Madam Chair, at all. For the no big fan of gangs, Madam Chair, at all. For the House's no big fan of gangs, Madam Chair, at all. For the House's information, no big fan of gangs, Madam Chair, at all. For the House's information, we all. For the House's information, we bar all. For the House's information, we bar patches all. For the House's information, we bar patches on all. For the House's information, we bar patches on my all. For the House's information, we bar patches on my marae. all. For the House's information, we bar patches on my marae. And all. For the House's information, we bar patches on my marae. And we've bar patches on my marae. And we've had bar patches on my marae. And we've had that bar patches on my marae. And we've had that gang bar patches on my marae. And we've had that gang patch bar patches on my marae. And we've had that gang patch ban bar patches on my marae. And we've had that gang patch ban for bar patches on my marae. And we've had that gang patch ban for many had that gang patch ban for many years. had that gang patch ban for many years. <INTERRUPTION> years. <INTERRUPTION> I years. <INTERRUPTION> I tell years. <INTERRUPTION> I tell you years. <INTERRUPTION> I tell you why years. <INTERRUPTION> I tell you why it's years. <INTERRUPTION> I tell you why it's working. years. <INTERRUPTION> I tell you why it's working. It's years. <INTERRUPTION> I tell you why it's working. It's a I tell you why it's working. It's a good I tell you why it's working. It's a good question. I tell you why it's working. It's a good question. I I tell you why it's working. It's a good question. I tell I tell you why it's working. It's a good question. I tell you I tell you why it's working. It's a good question. I tell you why I tell you why it's working. It's a good question. I tell you why it's good question. I tell you why it's working, good question. I tell you why it's working, Madam good question. I tell you why it's working, Madam Chair. good question. I tell you why it's working, Madam Chair. Because good question. I tell you why it's working, Madam Chair. Because we working, Madam Chair. Because we work working, Madam Chair. Because we work with working, Madam Chair. Because we work with the working, Madam Chair. Because we work with the whanau working, Madam Chair. Because we work with the whanau too. working, Madam Chair. Because we work with the whanau too. We working, Madam Chair. Because we work with the whanau too. We work work with the whanau too. We work with work with the whanau too. We work with the work with the whanau too. We work with the whanau work with the whanau too. We work with the whanau too. work with the whanau too. We work with the whanau too. I work with the whanau too. We work with the whanau too. I accept work with the whanau too. We work with the whanau too. I accept some with the whanau too. I accept some of with the whanau too. I accept some of the with the whanau too. I accept some of the korero with the whanau too. I accept some of the korero the with the whanau too. I accept some of the korero the gang with the whanau too. I accept some of the korero the gang patches with the whanau too. I accept some of the korero the gang patches can of the korero the gang patches can be of the korero the gang patches can be intimidating. of the korero the gang patches can be intimidating. All of the korero the gang patches can be intimidating. All people of the korero the gang patches can be intimidating. All people can of the korero the gang patches can be intimidating. All people can get be intimidating. All people can get intimidated be intimidating. All people can get intimidated by be intimidating. All people can get intimidated by gang be intimidating. All people can get intimidated by gang patches, be intimidating. All people can get intimidated by gang patches, Maori, intimidated by gang patches, Maori, Pakeha, intimidated by gang patches, Maori, Pakeha, whatever. intimidated by gang patches, Maori, Pakeha, whatever. One intimidated by gang patches, Maori, Pakeha, whatever. One thing intimidated by gang patches, Maori, Pakeha, whatever. One thing we intimidated by gang patches, Maori, Pakeha, whatever. One thing we can't Pakeha, whatever. One thing we can't walk Pakeha, whatever. One thing we can't walk away, Pakeha, whatever. One thing we can't walk away, the Pakeha, whatever. One thing we can't walk away, the problem Pakeha, whatever. One thing we can't walk away, the problem with Pakeha, whatever. One thing we can't walk away, the problem with the walk away, the problem with the legislation, walk away, the problem with the legislation, you're walk away, the problem with the legislation, you're actually legislation, you're actually affecting legislation, you're actually affecting whanau. legislation, you're actually affecting whanau. That's legislation, you're actually affecting whanau. That's the affecting whanau. That's the problem. affecting whanau. That's the problem. And affecting whanau. That's the problem. And our affecting whanau. That's the problem. And our school affecting whanau. That's the problem. And our school we affecting whanau. That's the problem. And our school we set affecting whanau. That's the problem. And our school we set up affecting whanau. That's the problem. And our school we set up at problem. And our school we set up at my problem. And our school we set up at my marae, problem. And our school we set up at my marae, which problem. And our school we set up at my marae, which is problem. And our school we set up at my marae, which is open problem. And our school we set up at my marae, which is open to problem. And our school we set up at my marae, which is open to everyone, my marae, which is open to everyone, Madam my marae, which is open to everyone, Madam Chair, my marae, which is open to everyone, Madam Chair, we my marae, which is open to everyone, Madam Chair, we - my marae, which is open to everyone, Madam Chair, we - 25% my marae, which is open to everyone, Madam Chair, we - 25% of my marae, which is open to everyone, Madam Chair, we - 25% of our my marae, which is open to everyone, Madam Chair, we - 25% of our kids Madam Chair, we - 25% of our kids had Madam Chair, we - 25% of our kids had gang Madam Chair, we - 25% of our kids had gang fathers. Madam Chair, we - 25% of our kids had gang fathers. Gang Madam Chair, we - 25% of our kids had gang fathers. Gang fathers. Madam Chair, we - 25% of our kids had gang fathers. Gang fathers. They had gang fathers. Gang fathers. They - had gang fathers. Gang fathers. They - they had gang fathers. Gang fathers. They - they know had gang fathers. Gang fathers. They - they know when had gang fathers. Gang fathers. They - they know when they had gang fathers. Gang fathers. They - they know when they attend had gang fathers. Gang fathers. They - they know when they attend the - they know when they attend the marae, - they know when they attend the marae, no - they know when they attend the marae, no patches. - they know when they attend the marae, no patches. And - they know when they attend the marae, no patches. And so, - they know when they attend the marae, no patches. And so, we - they know when they attend the marae, no patches. And so, we need marae, no patches. And so, we need to marae, no patches. And so, we need to bring marae, no patches. And so, we need to bring in marae, no patches. And so, we need to bring in laws marae, no patches. And so, we need to bring in laws - marae, no patches. And so, we need to bring in laws - that's marae, no patches. And so, we need to bring in laws - that's why marae, no patches. And so, we need to bring in laws - that's why - to bring in laws - that's why - here's to bring in laws - that's why - here's the to bring in laws - that's why - here's the thing, to bring in laws - that's why - here's the thing, Madam to bring in laws - that's why - here's the thing, Madam Chair, here's the thing, Madam Chair, National here's the thing, Madam Chair, National has here's the thing, Madam Chair, National has got here's the thing, Madam Chair, National has got some here's the thing, Madam Chair, National has got some history here's the thing, Madam Chair, National has got some history in National has got some history in terms National has got some history in terms of National has got some history in terms of working National has got some history in terms of working with National has got some history in terms of working with gangs. National has got some history in terms of working with gangs. The terms of working with gangs. The former terms of working with gangs. The former very terms of working with gangs. The former very famous terms of working with gangs. The former very famous or terms of working with gangs. The former very famous or infamous terms of working with gangs. The former very famous or infamous PM, former very famous or infamous PM, Rob former very famous or infamous PM, Rob Muldoon, former very famous or infamous PM, Rob Muldoon, had former very famous or infamous PM, Rob Muldoon, had a former very famous or infamous PM, Rob Muldoon, had a relationship former very famous or infamous PM, Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with gangs. Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with gangs. He Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with gangs. He had Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with gangs. He had the Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with gangs. He had the gangs Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with gangs. He had the gangs in Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with gangs. He had the gangs in here. Rob Muldoon, had a relationship with gangs. He had the gangs in here. He gangs. He had the gangs in here. He knew gangs. He had the gangs in here. He knew the gangs. He had the gangs in here. He knew the way gangs. He had the gangs in here. He knew the way forward, gangs. He had the gangs in here. He knew the way forward, Madam gangs. He had the gangs in here. He knew the way forward, Madam Chair, knew the way forward, Madam Chair, the knew the way forward, Madam Chair, the way knew the way forward, Madam Chair, the way forward knew the way forward, Madam Chair, the way forward was knew the way forward, Madam Chair, the way forward was to knew the way forward, Madam Chair, the way forward was to keep knew the way forward, Madam Chair, the way forward was to keep them the way forward was to keep them busy, the way forward was to keep them busy, to the way forward was to keep them busy, to keep the way forward was to keep them busy, to keep them the way forward was to keep them busy, to keep them in the way forward was to keep them busy, to keep them in work. the way forward was to keep them busy, to keep them in work. When busy, to keep them in work. When Muldoon busy, to keep them in work. When Muldoon died, busy, to keep them in work. When Muldoon died, Madam busy, to keep them in work. When Muldoon died, Madam Chair, busy, to keep them in work. When Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the busy, to keep them in work. When Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the Black Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the Black power Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the Black power performed Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the Black power performed a Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the Black power performed a haka Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the Black power performed a haka at Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the Black power performed a haka at his Muldoon died, Madam Chair, the Black power performed a haka at his tangy. power performed a haka at his tangy. He power performed a haka at his tangy. He wanted power performed a haka at his tangy. He wanted to power performed a haka at his tangy. He wanted to find power performed a haka at his tangy. He wanted to find a power performed a haka at his tangy. He wanted to find a way power performed a haka at his tangy. He wanted to find a way through. power performed a haka at his tangy. He wanted to find a way through. He He wanted to find a way through. He knew He wanted to find a way through. He knew there He wanted to find a way through. He knew there had He wanted to find a way through. He knew there had to He wanted to find a way through. He knew there had to be He wanted to find a way through. He knew there had to be a He wanted to find a way through. He knew there had to be a strategy knew there had to be a strategy around knew there had to be a strategy around gangs, knew there had to be a strategy around gangs, not knew there had to be a strategy around gangs, not just knew there had to be a strategy around gangs, not just getting knew there had to be a strategy around gangs, not just getting rid around gangs, not just getting rid of around gangs, not just getting rid of patches. around gangs, not just getting rid of patches. What around gangs, not just getting rid of patches. What we around gangs, not just getting rid of patches. What we did around gangs, not just getting rid of patches. What we did was around gangs, not just getting rid of patches. What we did was try around gangs, not just getting rid of patches. What we did was try to of patches. What we did was try to dismantle of patches. What we did was try to dismantle the of patches. What we did was try to dismantle the assets, of patches. What we did was try to dismantle the assets, where of patches. What we did was try to dismantle the assets, where this dismantle the assets, where this former dismantle the assets, where this former minister dismantle the assets, where this former minister over dismantle the assets, where this former minister over here dismantle the assets, where this former minister over here did dismantle the assets, where this former minister over here did some former minister over here did some wonderful former minister over here did some wonderful work. former minister over here did some wonderful work. We former minister over here did some wonderful work. We have former minister over here did some wonderful work. We have to former minister over here did some wonderful work. We have to cut former minister over here did some wonderful work. We have to cut to wonderful work. We have to cut to the wonderful work. We have to cut to the chase, wonderful work. We have to cut to the chase, cut wonderful work. We have to cut to the chase, cut to wonderful work. We have to cut to the chase, cut to the wonderful work. We have to cut to the chase, cut to the root wonderful work. We have to cut to the chase, cut to the root of wonderful work. We have to cut to the chase, cut to the root of the the chase, cut to the root of the problem. the chase, cut to the root of the problem. Just the chase, cut to the root of the problem. Just taking the chase, cut to the root of the problem. Just taking their the chase, cut to the root of the problem. Just taking their patches problem. Just taking their patches is problem. Just taking their patches is not problem. Just taking their patches is not going problem. Just taking their patches is not going to problem. Just taking their patches is not going to make problem. Just taking their patches is not going to make communities problem. Just taking their patches is not going to make communities any is not going to make communities any - is not going to make communities any - any is not going to make communities any - any safer. is not going to make communities any - any safer. It's is not going to make communities any - any safer. It's got is not going to make communities any - any safer. It's got to is not going to make communities any - any safer. It's got to be is not going to make communities any - any safer. It's got to be a is not going to make communities any - any safer. It's got to be a bit - any safer. It's got to be a bit more - any safer. It's got to be a bit more than - any safer. It's got to be a bit more than that. - any safer. It's got to be a bit more than that. So - any safer. It's got to be a bit more than that. So I - any safer. It's got to be a bit more than that. So I appreciate - any safer. It's got to be a bit more than that. So I appreciate the more than that. So I appreciate the fear. more than that. So I appreciate the fear. I more than that. So I appreciate the fear. I appreciate more than that. So I appreciate the fear. I appreciate the more than that. So I appreciate the fear. I appreciate the fear more than that. So I appreciate the fear. I appreciate the fear that more than that. So I appreciate the fear. I appreciate the fear that is fear. I appreciate the fear that is out fear. I appreciate the fear that is out there fear. I appreciate the fear that is out there amongst fear. I appreciate the fear that is out there amongst some fear. I appreciate the fear that is out there amongst some of fear. I appreciate the fear that is out there amongst some of the out there amongst some of the community. out there amongst some of the community. And out there amongst some of the community. And I've out there amongst some of the community. And I've debated out there amongst some of the community. And I've debated this out there amongst some of the community. And I've debated this at community. And I've debated this at length community. And I've debated this at length with community. And I've debated this at length with people community. And I've debated this at length with people like community. And I've debated this at length with people like Michael length with people like Michael Laws, length with people like Michael Laws, who length with people like Michael Laws, who I length with people like Michael Laws, who I worked length with people like Michael Laws, who I worked with length with people like Michael Laws, who I worked with some length with people like Michael Laws, who I worked with some years Laws, who I worked with some years ago. Laws, who I worked with some years ago. And Laws, who I worked with some years ago. And we Laws, who I worked with some years ago. And we used Laws, who I worked with some years ago. And we used to Laws, who I worked with some years ago. And we used to debate Laws, who I worked with some years ago. And we used to debate this Laws, who I worked with some years ago. And we used to debate this on ago. And we used to debate this on radio, ago. And we used to debate this on radio, in ago. And we used to debate this on radio, in terms ago. And we used to debate this on radio, in terms of ago. And we used to debate this on radio, in terms of the ago. And we used to debate this on radio, in terms of the effect ago. And we used to debate this on radio, in terms of the effect of radio, in terms of the effect of taking radio, in terms of the effect of taking patches radio, in terms of the effect of taking patches off. radio, in terms of the effect of taking patches off. At radio, in terms of the effect of taking patches off. At the radio, in terms of the effect of taking patches off. At the time, taking patches off. At the time, Michael taking patches off. At the time, Michael Laws taking patches off. At the time, Michael Laws was taking patches off. At the time, Michael Laws was the taking patches off. At the time, Michael Laws was the Whanganui taking patches off. At the time, Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor and Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor and he Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor and he was Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor and he was going Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor and he was going down Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor and he was going down this Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor and he was going down this track. Michael Laws was the Whanganui mayor and he was going down this track. My and he was going down this track. My partner and he was going down this track. My partner in and he was going down this track. My partner in crime, and he was going down this track. My partner in crime, who and he was going down this track. My partner in crime, who became and he was going down this track. My partner in crime, who became the partner in crime, who became the president partner in crime, who became the president of partner in crime, who became the president of the partner in crime, who became the president of the Te partner in crime, who became the president of the Te Paati partner in crime, who became the president of the Te Paati Maori, partner in crime, who became the president of the Te Paati Maori, my president of the Te Paati Maori, my partner... president of the Te Paati Maori, my partner... The president of the Te Paati Maori, my partner... The Hon president of the Te Paati Maori, my partner... The Hon Willie president of the Te Paati Maori, my partner... The Hon Willie Jackson. partner... The Hon Willie Jackson. My partner... The Hon Willie Jackson. My partner partner... The Hon Willie Jackson. My partner in partner... The Hon Willie Jackson. My partner in crime, partner... The Hon Willie Jackson. My partner in crime, John partner... The Hon Willie Jackson. My partner in crime, John Tomahere, My partner in crime, John Tomahere, now My partner in crime, John Tomahere, now the My partner in crime, John Tomahere, now the president My partner in crime, John Tomahere, now the president of My partner in crime, John Tomahere, now the president of Te My partner in crime, John Tomahere, now the president of Te Paati My partner in crime, John Tomahere, now the president of Te Paati Maori, now the president of Te Paati Maori, absolutely now the president of Te Paati Maori, absolutely supported now the president of Te Paati Maori, absolutely supported getting now the president of Te Paati Maori, absolutely supported getting rid now the president of Te Paati Maori, absolutely supported getting rid of absolutely supported getting rid of patches, absolutely supported getting rid of patches, just absolutely supported getting rid of patches, just for absolutely supported getting rid of patches, just for Te absolutely supported getting rid of patches, just for Te Paati absolutely supported getting rid of patches, just for Te Paati Maori's patches, just for Te Paati Maori's information. patches, just for Te Paati Maori's information. 100% patches, just for Te Paati Maori's information. 100% supported patches, just for Te Paati Maori's information. 100% supported getting information. 100% supported getting rid information. 100% supported getting rid of information. 100% supported getting rid of patches information. 100% supported getting rid of patches of information. 100% supported getting rid of patches of gangs. information. 100% supported getting rid of patches of gangs. But information. 100% supported getting rid of patches of gangs. But of rid of patches of gangs. But of course, rid of patches of gangs. But of course, I rid of patches of gangs. But of course, I know rid of patches of gangs. But of course, I know Te rid of patches of gangs. But of course, I know Te Paati rid of patches of gangs. But of course, I know Te Paati Maori rid of patches of gangs. But of course, I know Te Paati Maori has course, I know Te Paati Maori has evolved course, I know Te Paati Maori has evolved and course, I know Te Paati Maori has evolved and so course, I know Te Paati Maori has evolved and so has course, I know Te Paati Maori has evolved and so has John, course, I know Te Paati Maori has evolved and so has John, I course, I know Te Paati Maori has evolved and so has John, I believe. evolved and so has John, I believe. But, evolved and so has John, I believe. But, at evolved and so has John, I believe. But, at the evolved and so has John, I believe. But, at the time, evolved and so has John, I believe. But, at the time, he evolved and so has John, I believe. But, at the time, he was evolved and so has John, I believe. But, at the time, he was absolutely But, at the time, he was absolutely clear But, at the time, he was absolutely clear that But, at the time, he was absolutely clear that those But, at the time, he was absolutely clear that those patches But, at the time, he was absolutely clear that those patches had But, at the time, he was absolutely clear that those patches had to But, at the time, he was absolutely clear that those patches had to come clear that those patches had to come off clear that those patches had to come off the clear that those patches had to come off the gangs. clear that those patches had to come off the gangs. He clear that those patches had to come off the gangs. He was clear that those patches had to come off the gangs. He was in clear that those patches had to come off the gangs. He was in Michael off the gangs. He was in Michael Laws's off the gangs. He was in Michael Laws's court, off the gangs. He was in Michael Laws's court, believe off the gangs. He was in Michael Laws's court, believe it off the gangs. He was in Michael Laws's court, believe it or off the gangs. He was in Michael Laws's court, believe it or not. off the gangs. He was in Michael Laws's court, believe it or not. I Laws's court, believe it or not. I never Laws's court, believe it or not. I never was, Laws's court, believe it or not. I never was, because Laws's court, believe it or not. I never was, because we Laws's court, believe it or not. I never was, because we needed Laws's court, believe it or not. I never was, because we needed to never was, because we needed to think never was, because we needed to think this never was, because we needed to think this out, never was, because we needed to think this out, we never was, because we needed to think this out, we need never was, because we needed to think this out, we need to never was, because we needed to think this out, we need to think think this out, we need to think about think this out, we need to think about the think this out, we need to think about the broader think this out, we need to think about the broader strategies. think this out, we need to think about the broader strategies. Were about the broader strategies. Were we about the broader strategies. Were we looking about the broader strategies. Were we looking after about the broader strategies. Were we looking after whanau? about the broader strategies. Were we looking after whanau? Was we looking after whanau? Was employment we looking after whanau? Was employment being we looking after whanau? Was employment being put we looking after whanau? Was employment being put in we looking after whanau? Was employment being put in place? we looking after whanau? Was employment being put in place? Were employment being put in place? Were we employment being put in place? Were we were employment being put in place? Were we were - employment being put in place? Were we were - were employment being put in place? Were we were - were the employment being put in place? Were we were - were the gangs employment being put in place? Were we were - were the gangs being, employment being put in place? Were we were - were the gangs being, I we were - were the gangs being, I suppose, we were - were the gangs being, I suppose, looked we were - were the gangs being, I suppose, looked after we were - were the gangs being, I suppose, looked after - we were - were the gangs being, I suppose, looked after - when we were - were the gangs being, I suppose, looked after - when these suppose, looked after - when these gangs suppose, looked after - when these gangs - suppose, looked after - when these gangs - when suppose, looked after - when these gangs - when people, suppose, looked after - when these gangs - when people, whether suppose, looked after - when these gangs - when people, whether it's gangs - when people, whether it's gangs gangs - when people, whether it's gangs or gangs - when people, whether it's gangs or whatever, gangs - when people, whether it's gangs or whatever, have gangs - when people, whether it's gangs or whatever, have nothing gangs - when people, whether it's gangs or whatever, have nothing to gangs or whatever, have nothing to do, gangs or whatever, have nothing to do, they gangs or whatever, have nothing to do, they do gangs or whatever, have nothing to do, they do what gangs or whatever, have nothing to do, they do what they gangs or whatever, have nothing to do, they do what they shouldn't gangs or whatever, have nothing to do, they do what they shouldn't do. do, they do what they shouldn't do. We do, they do what they shouldn't do. We should do, they do what they shouldn't do. We should know do, they do what they shouldn't do. We should know that. do, they do what they shouldn't do. We should know that. Now, do, they do what they shouldn't do. We should know that. Now, my We should know that. Now, my organisation We should know that. Now, my organisation back We should know that. Now, my organisation back in We should know that. Now, my organisation back in the We should know that. Now, my organisation back in the 80s We should know that. Now, my organisation back in the 80s and organisation back in the 80s and 90s, organisation back in the 80s and 90s, we organisation back in the 80s and 90s, we had organisation back in the 80s and 90s, we had - organisation back in the 80s and 90s, we had - we organisation back in the 80s and 90s, we had - we were organisation back in the 80s and 90s, we had - we were contracting 90s, we had - we were contracting black 90s, we had - we were contracting black power 90s, we had - we were contracting black power and 90s, we had - we were contracting black power and the 90s, we had - we were contracting black power and the president 90s, we had - we were contracting black power and the president at 90s, we had - we were contracting black power and the president at the black power and the president at the time black power and the president at the time was black power and the president at the time was a black power and the president at the time was a guy black power and the president at the time was a guy called black power and the president at the time was a guy called Awhawaka. black power and the president at the time was a guy called Awhawaka. They time was a guy called Awhawaka. They were time was a guy called Awhawaka. They were contracted time was a guy called Awhawaka. They were contracted to time was a guy called Awhawaka. They were contracted to our time was a guy called Awhawaka. They were contracted to our organisation. were contracted to our organisation. So were contracted to our organisation. So we were contracted to our organisation. So we in were contracted to our organisation. So we in the were contracted to our organisation. So we in the black were contracted to our organisation. So we in the black power were contracted to our organisation. So we in the black power members were contracted to our organisation. So we in the black power members all So we in the black power members all the So we in the black power members all the work, So we in the black power members all the work, all So we in the black power members all the work, all busy, So we in the black power members all the work, all busy, all So we in the black power members all the work, all busy, all active. So we in the black power members all the work, all busy, all active. This the work, all busy, all active. This is the work, all busy, all active. This is what the work, all busy, all active. This is what Muldoon the work, all busy, all active. This is what Muldoon said, the work, all busy, all active. This is what Muldoon said, one the work, all busy, all active. This is what Muldoon said, one of the work, all busy, all active. This is what Muldoon said, one of the is what Muldoon said, one of the National is what Muldoon said, one of the National Party is what Muldoon said, one of the National Party icons is what Muldoon said, one of the National Party icons and is what Muldoon said, one of the National Party icons and heroes. is what Muldoon said, one of the National Party icons and heroes. And National Party icons and heroes. And he National Party icons and heroes. And he said, National Party icons and heroes. And he said, you National Party icons and heroes. And he said, you just National Party icons and heroes. And he said, you just can't National Party icons and heroes. And he said, you just can't leave National Party icons and heroes. And he said, you just can't leave them he said, you just can't leave them to he said, you just can't leave them to their he said, you just can't leave them to their own he said, you just can't leave them to their own devices. he said, you just can't leave them to their own devices. And he said, you just can't leave them to their own devices. And people to their own devices. And people like to their own devices. And people like Muldoon to their own devices. And people like Muldoon said, to their own devices. And people like Muldoon said, Madam to their own devices. And people like Muldoon said, Madam Chair, to their own devices. And people like Muldoon said, Madam Chair, it's like Muldoon said, Madam Chair, it's not like Muldoon said, Madam Chair, it's not just like Muldoon said, Madam Chair, it's not just about like Muldoon said, Madam Chair, it's not just about taking like Muldoon said, Madam Chair, it's not just about taking their like Muldoon said, Madam Chair, it's not just about taking their patches. not just about taking their patches. It's not just about taking their patches. It's about not just about taking their patches. It's about providing not just about taking their patches. It's about providing work. not just about taking their patches. It's about providing work. It's It's about providing work. It's about It's about providing work. It's about looking It's about providing work. It's about looking after It's about providing work. It's about looking after whanau. It's about providing work. It's about looking after whanau. It's about looking after whanau. It's about about looking after whanau. It's about getting about looking after whanau. It's about getting these about looking after whanau. It's about getting these guys about looking after whanau. It's about getting these guys out about looking after whanau. It's about getting these guys out of about looking after whanau. It's about getting these guys out of what about getting these guys out of what they about getting these guys out of what they - about getting these guys out of what they - what about getting these guys out of what they - what they about getting these guys out of what they - what they are about getting these guys out of what they - what they are involved about getting these guys out of what they - what they are involved with. they - what they are involved with. I'm they - what they are involved with. I'm not they - what they are involved with. I'm not a they - what they are involved with. I'm not a supporter they - what they are involved with. I'm not a supporter of they - what they are involved with. I'm not a supporter of gangs. they - what they are involved with. I'm not a supporter of gangs. Sorry I'm not a supporter of gangs. Sorry about I'm not a supporter of gangs. Sorry about that, I'm not a supporter of gangs. Sorry about that, dear I'm not a supporter of gangs. Sorry about that, dear sister, I'm not a supporter of gangs. Sorry about that, dear sister, but I'm not a supporter of gangs. Sorry about that, dear sister, but I'm I'm not a supporter of gangs. Sorry about that, dear sister, but I'm a about that, dear sister, but I'm a supporter about that, dear sister, but I'm a supporter of about that, dear sister, but I'm a supporter of gangs. about that, dear sister, but I'm a supporter of gangs. I about that, dear sister, but I'm a supporter of gangs. I have about that, dear sister, but I'm a supporter of gangs. I have told about that, dear sister, but I'm a supporter of gangs. I have told the supporter of gangs. I have told the gangs supporter of gangs. I have told the gangs this. supporter of gangs. I have told the gangs this. But supporter of gangs. I have told the gangs this. But I'm supporter of gangs. I have told the gangs this. But I'm a supporter of gangs. I have told the gangs this. But I'm a supporter supporter of gangs. I have told the gangs this. But I'm a supporter of gangs this. But I'm a supporter of their gangs this. But I'm a supporter of their whanau. gangs this. But I'm a supporter of their whanau. When gangs this. But I'm a supporter of their whanau. When I gangs this. But I'm a supporter of their whanau. When I see gangs this. But I'm a supporter of their whanau. When I see them, gangs this. But I'm a supporter of their whanau. When I see them, I gangs this. But I'm a supporter of their whanau. When I see them, I see their whanau. When I see them, I see their their whanau. When I see them, I see their families. their whanau. When I see them, I see their families. I their whanau. When I see them, I see their families. I see their whanau. When I see them, I see their families. I see their their whanau. When I see them, I see their families. I see their wives, their whanau. When I see them, I see their families. I see their wives, I their families. I see their wives, I see their families. I see their wives, I see their their families. I see their wives, I see their tamariki. their families. I see their wives, I see their tamariki. We've their families. I see their wives, I see their tamariki. We've an see their tamariki. We've an obligation see their tamariki. We've an obligation as see their tamariki. We've an obligation as Maori see their tamariki. We've an obligation as Maori and see their tamariki. We've an obligation as Maori and Maori obligation as Maori and Maori community obligation as Maori and Maori community organisations obligation as Maori and Maori community organisations to obligation as Maori and Maori community organisations to look community organisations to look after community organisations to look after their community organisations to look after their whanau, community organisations to look after their whanau, no community organisations to look after their whanau, no matter community organisations to look after their whanau, no matter what after their whanau, no matter what the after their whanau, no matter what the hell after their whanau, no matter what the hell their after their whanau, no matter what the hell their fathers after their whanau, no matter what the hell their fathers have after their whanau, no matter what the hell their fathers have done, the hell their fathers have done, sometimes. the hell their fathers have done, sometimes. We the hell their fathers have done, sometimes. We all the hell their fathers have done, sometimes. We all tell the hell their fathers have done, sometimes. We all tell them the hell their fathers have done, sometimes. We all tell them off. sometimes. We all tell them off. These sometimes. We all tell them off. These people sometimes. We all tell them off. These people in sometimes. We all tell them off. These people in the sometimes. We all tell them off. These people in the House sometimes. We all tell them off. These people in the House will sometimes. We all tell them off. These people in the House will tell These people in the House will tell them These people in the House will tell them off. These people in the House will tell them off. You These people in the House will tell them off. You just These people in the House will tell them off. You just can't These people in the House will tell them off. You just can't take them off. You just can't take patches them off. You just can't take patches off them off. You just can't take patches off them, them off. You just can't take patches off them, Madam them off. You just can't take patches off them, Madam Chair, them off. You just can't take patches off them, Madam Chair, and them off. You just can't take patches off them, Madam Chair, and I patches off them, Madam Chair, and I think patches off them, Madam Chair, and I think it's patches off them, Madam Chair, and I think it's all patches off them, Madam Chair, and I think it's all solved patches off them, Madam Chair, and I think it's all solved now. patches off them, Madam Chair, and I think it's all solved now. It's patches off them, Madam Chair, and I think it's all solved now. It's too think it's all solved now. It's too superficial. think it's all solved now. It's too superficial. You think it's all solved now. It's too superficial. You have think it's all solved now. It's too superficial. You have to think it's all solved now. It's too superficial. You have to hit think it's all solved now. It's too superficial. You have to hit them think it's all solved now. It's too superficial. You have to hit them in superficial. You have to hit them in the superficial. You have to hit them in the pocket. superficial. You have to hit them in the pocket. You superficial. You have to hit them in the pocket. You need superficial. You have to hit them in the pocket. You need to superficial. You have to hit them in the pocket. You need to asset superficial. You have to hit them in the pocket. You need to asset side. the pocket. You need to asset side. What the pocket. You need to asset side. What this the pocket. You need to asset side. What this -- the pocket. You need to asset side. What this -- need the pocket. You need to asset side. What this -- need to the pocket. You need to asset side. What this -- need to hit the pocket. You need to asset side. What this -- need to hit the the pocket. You need to asset side. What this -- need to hit the asset What this -- need to hit the asset side. What this -- need to hit the asset side. You What this -- need to hit the asset side. You need What this -- need to hit the asset side. You need to What this -- need to hit the asset side. You need to listen. What this -- need to hit the asset side. You need to listen. I'm What this -- need to hit the asset side. You need to listen. I'm not side. You need to listen. I'm not just side. You need to listen. I'm not just trying side. You need to listen. I'm not just trying to side. You need to listen. I'm not just trying to grand side. You need to listen. I'm not just trying to grand stand side. You need to listen. I'm not just trying to grand stand here. side. You need to listen. I'm not just trying to grand stand here. You just trying to grand stand here. You need just trying to grand stand here. You need to just trying to grand stand here. You need to think just trying to grand stand here. You need to think about just trying to grand stand here. You need to think about things just trying to grand stand here. You need to think about things in just trying to grand stand here. You need to think about things in a need to think about things in a whanau need to think about things in a whanau aspect. need to think about things in a whanau aspect. This need to think about things in a whanau aspect. This is need to think about things in a whanau aspect. This is a need to think about things in a whanau aspect. This is a government whanau aspect. This is a government that whanau aspect. This is a government that prides whanau aspect. This is a government that prides itself whanau aspect. This is a government that prides itself - whanau aspect. This is a government that prides itself - it whanau aspect. This is a government that prides itself - it has that prides itself - it has supported that prides itself - it has supported the that prides itself - it has supported the funding. that prides itself - it has supported the funding. I that prides itself - it has supported the funding. I have that prides itself - it has supported the funding. I have given supported the funding. I have given Tama supported the funding. I have given Tama Potaka supported the funding. I have given Tama Potaka some supported the funding. I have given Tama Potaka some credit supported the funding. I have given Tama Potaka some credit with supported the funding. I have given Tama Potaka some credit with it. Tama Potaka some credit with it. Part Tama Potaka some credit with it. Part of Tama Potaka some credit with it. Part of it Tama Potaka some credit with it. Part of it is Tama Potaka some credit with it. Part of it is looking Tama Potaka some credit with it. Part of it is looking after Tama Potaka some credit with it. Part of it is looking after people Part of it is looking after people who Part of it is looking after people who may Part of it is looking after people who may upset Part of it is looking after people who may upset you, Part of it is looking after people who may upset you, who Part of it is looking after people who may upset you, who may Part of it is looking after people who may upset you, who may have who may upset you, who may have upset who may upset you, who may have upset your who may upset you, who may have upset your whanau who may upset you, who may have upset your whanau and who may upset you, who may have upset your whanau and your upset your whanau and your community, upset your whanau and your community, but upset your whanau and your community, but you've upset your whanau and your community, but you've an upset your whanau and your community, but you've an obligation community, but you've an obligation to community, but you've an obligation to look community, but you've an obligation to look after community, but you've an obligation to look after them. community, but you've an obligation to look after them. I community, but you've an obligation to look after them. I say community, but you've an obligation to look after them. I say to community, but you've an obligation to look after them. I say to this to look after them. I say to this Government, to look after them. I say to this Government, you to look after them. I say to this Government, you got to look after them. I say to this Government, you got to to look after them. I say to this Government, you got to look to look after them. I say to this Government, you got to look beyond Government, you got to look beyond the Government, you got to look beyond the patch. Government, you got to look beyond the patch. You Government, you got to look beyond the patch. You got Government, you got to look beyond the patch. You got to Government, you got to look beyond the patch. You got to look Government, you got to look beyond the patch. You got to look board Government, you got to look beyond the patch. You got to look board the the patch. You got to look board the patch, the patch. You got to look board the patch, what's the patch. You got to look board the patch, what's happening the patch. You got to look board the patch, what's happening at the patch. You got to look board the patch, what's happening at home, patch, what's happening at home, what's patch, what's happening at home, what's happening patch, what's happening at home, what's happening in patch, what's happening at home, what's happening in the patch, what's happening at home, what's happening in the community. what's happening in the community. This what's happening in the community. This Government, what's happening in the community. This Government, Madam what's happening in the community. This Government, Madam Chair, This Government, Madam Chair, recently This Government, Madam Chair, recently did This Government, Madam Chair, recently did themselves This Government, Madam Chair, recently did themselves - This Government, Madam Chair, recently did themselves - the This Government, Madam Chair, recently did themselves - the PM recently did themselves - the PM fronted recently did themselves - the PM fronted very recently did themselves - the PM fronted very well, recently did themselves - the PM fronted very well, Madam recently did themselves - the PM fronted very well, Madam Chair, recently did themselves - the PM fronted very well, Madam Chair, when fronted very well, Madam Chair, when we fronted very well, Madam Chair, when we had fronted very well, Madam Chair, when we had the fronted very well, Madam Chair, when we had the abuse fronted very well, Madam Chair, when we had the abuse victims fronted very well, Madam Chair, when we had the abuse victims here. fronted very well, Madam Chair, when we had the abuse victims here. It we had the abuse victims here. It was we had the abuse victims here. It was a we had the abuse victims here. It was a good we had the abuse victims here. It was a good day we had the abuse victims here. It was a good day for we had the abuse victims here. It was a good day for the we had the abuse victims here. It was a good day for the Parliament was a good day for the Parliament when was a good day for the Parliament when we was a good day for the Parliament when we had was a good day for the Parliament when we had a was a good day for the Parliament when we had a PM was a good day for the Parliament when we had a PM and was a good day for the Parliament when we had a PM and parties when we had a PM and parties supporting when we had a PM and parties supporting people when we had a PM and parties supporting people who when we had a PM and parties supporting people who have when we had a PM and parties supporting people who have been supporting people who have been dealt supporting people who have been dealt to supporting people who have been dealt to by supporting people who have been dealt to by the supporting people who have been dealt to by the state. supporting people who have been dealt to by the state. Then supporting people who have been dealt to by the state. Then the supporting people who have been dealt to by the state. Then the next dealt to by the state. Then the next day dealt to by the state. Then the next day you dealt to by the state. Then the next day you start dealt to by the state. Then the next day you start pushing dealt to by the state. Then the next day you start pushing this dealt to by the state. Then the next day you start pushing this type dealt to by the state. Then the next day you start pushing this type of day you start pushing this type of legislation. day you start pushing this type of legislation. Maori day you start pushing this type of legislation. Maori and day you start pushing this type of legislation. Maori and communities legislation. Maori and communities have legislation. Maori and communities have had legislation. Maori and communities have had enough. legislation. Maori and communities have had enough. So legislation. Maori and communities have had enough. So I legislation. Maori and communities have had enough. So I implore legislation. Maori and communities have had enough. So I implore this have had enough. So I implore this Government, have had enough. So I implore this Government, I have had enough. So I implore this Government, I know have had enough. So I implore this Government, I know they're have had enough. So I implore this Government, I know they're not have had enough. So I implore this Government, I know they're not going Government, I know they're not going to Government, I know they're not going to change Government, I know they're not going to change this Government, I know they're not going to change this legislation Government, I know they're not going to change this legislation now, Government, I know they're not going to change this legislation now, but to change this legislation now, but to to change this legislation now, but to think to change this legislation now, but to think about to change this legislation now, but to think about this. to change this legislation now, but to think about this. Because to change this legislation now, but to think about this. Because you've to think about this. Because you've got to think about this. Because you've got communities to think about this. Because you've got communities in to think about this. Because you've got communities in uproar. to think about this. Because you've got communities in uproar. You've got communities in uproar. You've got got communities in uproar. You've got communities got communities in uproar. You've got communities in got communities in uproar. You've got communities in an got communities in uproar. You've got communities in an up got communities in uproar. You've got communities in an up roar. got communities in uproar. You've got communities in an up roar. Don't got communities in an up roar. Don't bring got communities in an up roar. Don't bring the got communities in an up roar. Don't bring the speaker got communities in an up roar. Don't bring the speaker into got communities in an up roar. Don't bring the speaker into this got communities in an up roar. Don't bring the speaker into this debate. bring the speaker into this debate. My bring the speaker into this debate. My apologies, bring the speaker into this debate. My apologies, Madam bring the speaker into this debate. My apologies, Madam Chair. bring the speaker into this debate. My apologies, Madam Chair. We've My apologies, Madam Chair. We've communities My apologies, Madam Chair. We've communities that My apologies, Madam Chair. We've communities that are My apologies, Madam Chair. We've communities that are in My apologies, Madam Chair. We've communities that are in an My apologies, Madam Chair. We've communities that are in an uproar. communities that are in an uproar. You communities that are in an uproar. You saw communities that are in an uproar. You saw some communities that are in an uproar. You saw some of communities that are in an uproar. You saw some of the communities that are in an uproar. You saw some of the performance communities that are in an uproar. You saw some of the performance on You saw some of the performance on television You saw some of the performance on television last You saw some of the performance on television last night, You saw some of the performance on television last night, in You saw some of the performance on television last night, in terms You saw some of the performance on television last night, in terms of television last night, in terms of the television last night, in terms of the Maori television last night, in terms of the Maori seats. television last night, in terms of the Maori seats. You television last night, in terms of the Maori seats. You saw television last night, in terms of the Maori seats. You saw that. television last night, in terms of the Maori seats. You saw that. Do television last night, in terms of the Maori seats. You saw that. Do we the Maori seats. You saw that. Do we support the Maori seats. You saw that. Do we support that the Maori seats. You saw that. Do we support that sort the Maori seats. You saw that. Do we support that sort of the Maori seats. You saw that. Do we support that sort of violent support that sort of violent response? support that sort of violent response? Of support that sort of violent response? Of course support that sort of violent response? Of course not. support that sort of violent response? Of course not. But support that sort of violent response? Of course not. But this support that sort of violent response? Of course not. But this is response? Of course not. But this is what response? Of course not. But this is what happens. response? Of course not. But this is what happens. People response? Of course not. But this is what happens. People get response? Of course not. But this is what happens. People get emotional, what happens. People get emotional, they what happens. People get emotional, they get what happens. People get emotional, they get - what happens. People get emotional, they get - and what happens. People get emotional, they get - and I what happens. People get emotional, they get - and I know what happens. People get emotional, they get - and I know people what happens. People get emotional, they get - and I know people say, they get - and I know people say, oh, they get - and I know people say, oh, these they get - and I know people say, oh, these are they get - and I know people say, oh, these are only they get - and I know people say, oh, these are only gang they get - and I know people say, oh, these are only gang patches, they get - and I know people say, oh, these are only gang patches, and oh, these are only gang patches, and - oh, these are only gang patches, and - so oh, these are only gang patches, and - so who oh, these are only gang patches, and - so who cares. oh, these are only gang patches, and - so who cares. Families oh, these are only gang patches, and - so who cares. Families care. - so who cares. Families care. Communities - so who cares. Families care. Communities care. - so who cares. Families care. Communities care. Iwi - so who cares. Families care. Communities care. Iwi care, - so who cares. Families care. Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Chair. Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Chair. And Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Chair. And so, Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Chair. And so, I Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Chair. And so, I say Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Chair. And so, I say today Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Chair. And so, I say today that, Communities care. Iwi care, Madam Chair. And so, I say today that, I Chair. And so, I say today that, I can't Chair. And so, I say today that, I can't give Chair. And so, I say today that, I can't give you Chair. And so, I say today that, I can't give you any Chair. And so, I say today that, I can't give you any other Chair. And so, I say today that, I can't give you any other title Chair. And so, I say today that, I can't give you any other title apart can't give you any other title apart from can't give you any other title apart from Kick can't give you any other title apart from Kick the can't give you any other title apart from Kick the Maori can't give you any other title apart from Kick the Maori in can't give you any other title apart from Kick the Maori in the can't give you any other title apart from Kick the Maori in the Guts. from Kick the Maori in the Guts. That's from Kick the Maori in the Guts. That's the from Kick the Maori in the Guts. That's the best from Kick the Maori in the Guts. That's the best suggestion from Kick the Maori in the Guts. That's the best suggestion I from Kick the Maori in the Guts. That's the best suggestion I can That's the best suggestion I can come That's the best suggestion I can come up That's the best suggestion I can come up with That's the best suggestion I can come up with at That's the best suggestion I can come up with at this That's the best suggestion I can come up with at this stage. That's the best suggestion I can come up with at this stage. I That's the best suggestion I can come up with at this stage. I will come up with at this stage. I will keep come up with at this stage. I will keep talking come up with at this stage. I will keep talking if come up with at this stage. I will keep talking if you come up with at this stage. I will keep talking if you like. come up with at this stage. I will keep talking if you like. I come up with at this stage. I will keep talking if you like. I may come up with at this stage. I will keep talking if you like. I may find keep talking if you like. I may find another keep talking if you like. I may find another title keep talking if you like. I may find another title over keep talking if you like. I may find another title over the keep talking if you like. I may find another title over the next keep talking if you like. I may find another title over the next five another title over the next five minutes. another title over the next five minutes. I'm another title over the next five minutes. I'm asking another title over the next five minutes. I'm asking the another title over the next five minutes. I'm asking the Government minutes. I'm asking the Government to minutes. I'm asking the Government to consider minutes. I'm asking the Government to consider the minutes. I'm asking the Government to consider the overall minutes. I'm asking the Government to consider the overall strategy, to consider the overall strategy, how to consider the overall strategy, how do to consider the overall strategy, how do we to consider the overall strategy, how do we best to consider the overall strategy, how do we best hurt to consider the overall strategy, how do we best hurt these to consider the overall strategy, how do we best hurt these gangs? to consider the overall strategy, how do we best hurt these gangs? You how do we best hurt these gangs? You hurt how do we best hurt these gangs? You hurt them how do we best hurt these gangs? You hurt them by how do we best hurt these gangs? You hurt them by dismantling how do we best hurt these gangs? You hurt them by dismantling their how do we best hurt these gangs? You hurt them by dismantling their asset hurt them by dismantling their asset base. hurt them by dismantling their asset base. There's hurt them by dismantling their asset base. There's no hurt them by dismantling their asset base. There's no easy hurt them by dismantling their asset base. There's no easy fix. hurt them by dismantling their asset base. There's no easy fix. How hurt them by dismantling their asset base. There's no easy fix. How do hurt them by dismantling their asset base. There's no easy fix. How do we base. There's no easy fix. How do we go base. There's no easy fix. How do we go through base. There's no easy fix. How do we go through the base. There's no easy fix. How do we go through the rehabilitation? base. There's no easy fix. How do we go through the rehabilitation? We base. There's no easy fix. How do we go through the rehabilitation? We go go through the rehabilitation? We go through go through the rehabilitation? We go through the go through the rehabilitation? We go through the rehabilitation... go through the rehabilitation? We go through the rehabilitation... I through the rehabilitation... I thank through the rehabilitation... I thank the through the rehabilitation... I thank the member through the rehabilitation... I thank the member for through the rehabilitation... I thank the member for turning through the rehabilitation... I thank the member for turning that thank the member for turning that into thank the member for turning that into a thank the member for turning that into a constructive thank the member for turning that into a constructive call. thank the member for turning that into a constructive call. I thank the member for turning that into a constructive call. I will into a constructive call. I will take into a constructive call. I will take a into a constructive call. I will take a call into a constructive call. I will take a call from into a constructive call. I will take a call from Tamatha into a constructive call. I will take a call from Tamatha Paul. into a constructive call. I will take a call from Tamatha Paul. On take a call from Tamatha Paul. On title take a call from Tamatha Paul. On title and take a call from Tamatha Paul. On title and commencement. take a call from Tamatha Paul. On title and commencement. Let's take a call from Tamatha Paul. On title and commencement. Let's go title and commencement. Let's go back title and commencement. Let's go back to title and commencement. Let's go back to title title and commencement. Let's go back to title and title and commencement. Let's go back to title and commencement. title and commencement. Let's go back to title and commencement. Back back to title and commencement. Back to back to title and commencement. Back to the back to title and commencement. Back to the title, back to title and commencement. Back to the title, 100%. back to title and commencement. Back to the title, 100%. My back to title and commencement. Back to the title, 100%. My question back to title and commencement. Back to the title, 100%. My question is to the title, 100%. My question is whether to the title, 100%. My question is whether the to the title, 100%. My question is whether the minister to the title, 100%. My question is whether the minister considered to the title, 100%. My question is whether the minister considered the whether the minister considered the name whether the minister considered the name or whether the minister considered the name or the whether the minister considered the name or the title whether the minister considered the name or the title of whether the minister considered the name or the title of Suppression whether the minister considered the name or the title of Suppression and name or the title of Suppression and Surveillance name or the title of Suppression and Surveillance of name or the title of Suppression and Surveillance of Indigenous name or the title of Suppression and Surveillance of Indigenous People Surveillance of Indigenous People Act. Surveillance of Indigenous People Act. I Surveillance of Indigenous People Act. I know Surveillance of Indigenous People Act. I know we Surveillance of Indigenous People Act. I know we listened Surveillance of Indigenous People Act. I know we listened to Surveillance of Indigenous People Act. I know we listened to 10 Act. I know we listened to 10 minutes Act. I know we listened to 10 minutes relating Act. I know we listened to 10 minutes relating to Act. I know we listened to 10 minutes relating to the Act. I know we listened to 10 minutes relating to the impact Act. I know we listened to 10 minutes relating to the impact of minutes relating to the impact of this minutes relating to the impact of this bill minutes relating to the impact of this bill on minutes relating to the impact of this bill on Maori, minutes relating to the impact of this bill on Maori, but minutes relating to the impact of this bill on Maori, but I've minutes relating to the impact of this bill on Maori, but I've some this bill on Maori, but I've some different this bill on Maori, but I've some different points this bill on Maori, but I've some different points to this bill on Maori, but I've some different points to make. this bill on Maori, but I've some different points to make. They're different points to make. They're more different points to make. They're more related different points to make. They're more related to different points to make. They're more related to the different points to make. They're more related to the consorting more related to the consorting orders more related to the consorting orders within more related to the consorting orders within the more related to the consorting orders within the bill, more related to the consorting orders within the bill, one more related to the consorting orders within the bill, one of more related to the consorting orders within the bill, one of the orders within the bill, one of the three orders within the bill, one of the three key orders within the bill, one of the three key tenets orders within the bill, one of the three key tenets of orders within the bill, one of the three key tenets of the orders within the bill, one of the three key tenets of the bill. orders within the bill, one of the three key tenets of the bill. The three key tenets of the bill. The first three key tenets of the bill. The first is three key tenets of the bill. The first is the three key tenets of the bill. The first is the gang three key tenets of the bill. The first is the gang patch three key tenets of the bill. The first is the gang patch ban, three key tenets of the bill. The first is the gang patch ban, the first is the gang patch ban, the second first is the gang patch ban, the second is first is the gang patch ban, the second is the first is the gang patch ban, the second is the non-consorting first is the gang patch ban, the second is the non-consorting order, second is the non-consorting order, and second is the non-consorting order, and the second is the non-consorting order, and the third second is the non-consorting order, and the third is second is the non-consorting order, and the third is the second is the non-consorting order, and the third is the dispersal and the third is the dispersal notices. and the third is the dispersal notices. We and the third is the dispersal notices. We didn't and the third is the dispersal notices. We didn't have and the third is the dispersal notices. We didn't have an notices. We didn't have an opportunity notices. We didn't have an opportunity at notices. We didn't have an opportunity at all notices. We didn't have an opportunity at all to notices. We didn't have an opportunity at all to touch notices. We didn't have an opportunity at all to touch on notices. We didn't have an opportunity at all to touch on the opportunity at all to touch on the consorting opportunity at all to touch on the consorting orders opportunity at all to touch on the consorting orders during opportunity at all to touch on the consorting orders during the consorting orders during the Committee consorting orders during the Committee of consorting orders during the Committee of the consorting orders during the Committee of the whole consorting orders during the Committee of the whole House consorting orders during the Committee of the whole House space. Committee of the whole House space. When Committee of the whole House space. When you Committee of the whole House space. When you look Committee of the whole House space. When you look at Committee of the whole House space. When you look at how Committee of the whole House space. When you look at how they Committee of the whole House space. When you look at how they have Committee of the whole House space. When you look at how they have been When you look at how they have been applied, When you look at how they have been applied, you When you look at how they have been applied, you can When you look at how they have been applied, you can see When you look at how they have been applied, you can see how When you look at how they have been applied, you can see how this When you look at how they have been applied, you can see how this would applied, you can see how this would relate applied, you can see how this would relate to applied, you can see how this would relate to the applied, you can see how this would relate to the suppression applied, you can see how this would relate to the suppression and relate to the suppression and surveillance relate to the suppression and surveillance of relate to the suppression and surveillance of Maori, relate to the suppression and surveillance of Maori, or relate to the suppression and surveillance of Maori, or the surveillance of Maori, or the suppression surveillance of Maori, or the suppression and surveillance of Maori, or the suppression and surveillance surveillance of Maori, or the suppression and surveillance of suppression and surveillance of Indigenous suppression and surveillance of Indigenous people. suppression and surveillance of Indigenous people. When suppression and surveillance of Indigenous people. When I suppression and surveillance of Indigenous people. When I did suppression and surveillance of Indigenous people. When I did a suppression and surveillance of Indigenous people. When I did a bit Indigenous people. When I did a bit of Indigenous people. When I did a bit of background Indigenous people. When I did a bit of background research Indigenous people. When I did a bit of background research when Indigenous people. When I did a bit of background research when the of background research when the Government of background research when the Government announced of background research when the Government announced their of background research when the Government announced their plan Government announced their plan around Government announced their plan around gang Government announced their plan around gang patches, Government announced their plan around gang patches, I Government announced their plan around gang patches, I think Government announced their plan around gang patches, I think it Government announced their plan around gang patches, I think it was around gang patches, I think it was minister around gang patches, I think it was minister Mitchell around gang patches, I think it was minister Mitchell who around gang patches, I think it was minister Mitchell who said around gang patches, I think it was minister Mitchell who said he around gang patches, I think it was minister Mitchell who said he would minister Mitchell who said he would be minister Mitchell who said he would be facing minister Mitchell who said he would be facing some minister Mitchell who said he would be facing some of minister Mitchell who said he would be facing some of these minister Mitchell who said he would be facing some of these laws minister Mitchell who said he would be facing some of these laws -- be facing some of these laws -- basing be facing some of these laws -- basing some be facing some of these laws -- basing some of be facing some of these laws -- basing some of the be facing some of these laws -- basing some of the laws be facing some of these laws -- basing some of the laws off basing some of the laws off Australian basing some of the laws off Australian laws basing some of the laws off Australian laws and basing some of the laws off Australian laws and similar basing some of the laws off Australian laws and similar bills Australian laws and similar bills that Australian laws and similar bills that - Australian laws and similar bills that - legislation Australian laws and similar bills that - legislation that's Australian laws and similar bills that - legislation that's been Australian laws and similar bills that - legislation that's been in that - legislation that's been in place that - legislation that's been in place in that - legislation that's been in place in Australia. that - legislation that's been in place in Australia. And that - legislation that's been in place in Australia. And so, that - legislation that's been in place in Australia. And so, I place in Australia. And so, I reached place in Australia. And so, I reached out place in Australia. And so, I reached out to place in Australia. And so, I reached out to one place in Australia. And so, I reached out to one of place in Australia. And so, I reached out to one of my place in Australia. And so, I reached out to one of my Green reached out to one of my Green colleagues reached out to one of my Green colleagues in reached out to one of my Green colleagues in New reached out to one of my Green colleagues in New South reached out to one of my Green colleagues in New South Wales, reached out to one of my Green colleagues in New South Wales, David colleagues in New South Wales, David Shoebridge, colleagues in New South Wales, David Shoebridge, to colleagues in New South Wales, David Shoebridge, to ask colleagues in New South Wales, David Shoebridge, to ask about colleagues in New South Wales, David Shoebridge, to ask about the colleagues in New South Wales, David Shoebridge, to ask about the success Shoebridge, to ask about the success of Shoebridge, to ask about the success of these Shoebridge, to ask about the success of these laws Shoebridge, to ask about the success of these laws and Shoebridge, to ask about the success of these laws and how Shoebridge, to ask about the success of these laws and how they've Shoebridge, to ask about the success of these laws and how they've been of these laws and how they've been applied. of these laws and how they've been applied. He of these laws and how they've been applied. He said, of these laws and how they've been applied. He said, there's of these laws and how they've been applied. He said, there's heaps of these laws and how they've been applied. He said, there's heaps of applied. He said, there's heaps of evidence applied. He said, there's heaps of evidence of applied. He said, there's heaps of evidence of this applied. He said, there's heaps of evidence of this - applied. He said, there's heaps of evidence of this - that applied. He said, there's heaps of evidence of this - that those evidence of this - that those consorting evidence of this - that those consorting orders evidence of this - that those consorting orders have evidence of this - that those consorting orders have been evidence of this - that those consorting orders have been used consorting orders have been used disproportionately consorting orders have been used disproportionately against consorting orders have been used disproportionately against young disproportionately against young Aboriginal disproportionately against young Aboriginal people disproportionately against young Aboriginal people in disproportionately against young Aboriginal people in Australia. Aboriginal people in Australia. Which Aboriginal people in Australia. Which is Aboriginal people in Australia. Which is why Aboriginal people in Australia. Which is why I Aboriginal people in Australia. Which is why I think Aboriginal people in Australia. Which is why I think the Aboriginal people in Australia. Which is why I think the title Aboriginal people in Australia. Which is why I think the title of Which is why I think the title of this Which is why I think the title of this bill Which is why I think the title of this bill needs Which is why I think the title of this bill needs to Which is why I think the title of this bill needs to reflect Which is why I think the title of this bill needs to reflect the this bill needs to reflect the discriminatory this bill needs to reflect the discriminatory impact this bill needs to reflect the discriminatory impact and this bill needs to reflect the discriminatory impact and use this bill needs to reflect the discriminatory impact and use that's discriminatory impact and use that's used discriminatory impact and use that's used disproportionately discriminatory impact and use that's used disproportionately against used disproportionately against Indigenous used disproportionately against Indigenous people. used disproportionately against Indigenous people. So, used disproportionately against Indigenous people. So, I've used disproportionately against Indigenous people. So, I've got used disproportionately against Indigenous people. So, I've got the Indigenous people. So, I've got the report Indigenous people. So, I've got the report here. Indigenous people. So, I've got the report here. It's Indigenous people. So, I've got the report here. It's from Indigenous people. So, I've got the report here. It's from the Indigenous people. So, I've got the report here. It's from the Law report here. It's from the Law Enforcement report here. It's from the Law Enforcement Conduct report here. It's from the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission, report here. It's from the Law Enforcement Conduct Commission, it's Enforcement Conduct Commission, it's called Enforcement Conduct Commission, it's called the Enforcement Conduct Commission, it's called the review Enforcement Conduct Commission, it's called the review of Enforcement Conduct Commission, it's called the review of operation Enforcement Conduct Commission, it's called the review of operation of called the review of operation of amendments called the review of operation of amendments to called the review of operation of amendments to the called the review of operation of amendments to the consorting called the review of operation of amendments to the consorting law amendments to the consorting law under amendments to the consorting law under part amendments to the consorting law under part 3a amendments to the consorting law under part 3a division amendments to the consorting law under part 3a division three amendments to the consorting law under part 3a division three of amendments to the consorting law under part 3a division three of the under part 3a division three of the Crimes under part 3a division three of the Crimes Act. under part 3a division three of the Crimes Act. It's under part 3a division three of the Crimes Act. It's from under part 3a division three of the Crimes Act. It's from last under part 3a division three of the Crimes Act. It's from last year. under part 3a division three of the Crimes Act. It's from last year. It Crimes Act. It's from last year. It talks Crimes Act. It's from last year. It talks about Crimes Act. It's from last year. It talks about the Crimes Act. It's from last year. It talks about the uses Crimes Act. It's from last year. It talks about the uses of Crimes Act. It's from last year. It talks about the uses of these Crimes Act. It's from last year. It talks about the uses of these laws. talks about the uses of these laws. In talks about the uses of these laws. In context, talks about the uses of these laws. In context, for talks about the uses of these laws. In context, for Australia, In context, for Australia, Indigenous In context, for Australia, Indigenous and In context, for Australia, Indigenous and Aboriginal In context, for Australia, Indigenous and Aboriginal people Indigenous and Aboriginal people make Indigenous and Aboriginal people make up Indigenous and Aboriginal people make up 2% Indigenous and Aboriginal people make up 2% of Indigenous and Aboriginal people make up 2% of the Indigenous and Aboriginal people make up 2% of the general make up 2% of the general population, make up 2% of the general population, but make up 2% of the general population, but these make up 2% of the general population, but these consorting population, but these consorting laws, population, but these consorting laws, which population, but these consorting laws, which I, population, but these consorting laws, which I, again, population, but these consorting laws, which I, again, repeat, population, but these consorting laws, which I, again, repeat, we laws, which I, again, repeat, we have laws, which I, again, repeat, we have not laws, which I, again, repeat, we have not had laws, which I, again, repeat, we have not had the laws, which I, again, repeat, we have not had the chance laws, which I, again, repeat, we have not had the chance to laws, which I, again, repeat, we have not had the chance to talk have not had the chance to talk about have not had the chance to talk about in have not had the chance to talk about in this have not had the chance to talk about in this committee have not had the chance to talk about in this committee of have not had the chance to talk about in this committee of the have not had the chance to talk about in this committee of the whole about in this committee of the whole phase, about in this committee of the whole phase, despite about in this committee of the whole phase, despite the about in this committee of the whole phase, despite the fact about in this committee of the whole phase, despite the fact it's about in this committee of the whole phase, despite the fact it's a about in this committee of the whole phase, despite the fact it's a major phase, despite the fact it's a major part. phase, despite the fact it's a major part. 1797 phase, despite the fact it's a major part. 1797 of phase, despite the fact it's a major part. 1797 of the phase, despite the fact it's a major part. 1797 of the 4257 phase, despite the fact it's a major part. 1797 of the 4257 people phase, despite the fact it's a major part. 1797 of the 4257 people who part. 1797 of the 4257 people who received part. 1797 of the 4257 people who received - part. 1797 of the 4257 people who received - were part. 1797 of the 4257 people who received - were on part. 1797 of the 4257 people who received - were on the part. 1797 of the 4257 people who received - were on the receiving part. 1797 of the 4257 people who received - were on the receiving end received - were on the receiving end of received - were on the receiving end of a received - were on the receiving end of a consorting received - were on the receiving end of a consorting order, received - were on the receiving end of a consorting order, so received - were on the receiving end of a consorting order, so 42%, received - were on the receiving end of a consorting order, so 42%, they of a consorting order, so 42%, they were of a consorting order, so 42%, they were Aboriginal of a consorting order, so 42%, they were Aboriginal people. of a consorting order, so 42%, they were Aboriginal people. And of a consorting order, so 42%, they were Aboriginal people. And then of a consorting order, so 42%, they were Aboriginal people. And then you were Aboriginal people. And then you look were Aboriginal people. And then you look at were Aboriginal people. And then you look at a were Aboriginal people. And then you look at a breakdown were Aboriginal people. And then you look at a breakdown of were Aboriginal people. And then you look at a breakdown of how were Aboriginal people. And then you look at a breakdown of how it's were Aboriginal people. And then you look at a breakdown of how it's been look at a breakdown of how it's been used look at a breakdown of how it's been used in look at a breakdown of how it's been used in different look at a breakdown of how it's been used in different jurisdictions used in different jurisdictions within used in different jurisdictions within New used in different jurisdictions within New South used in different jurisdictions within New South Wales. used in different jurisdictions within New South Wales. You used in different jurisdictions within New South Wales. You can used in different jurisdictions within New South Wales. You can see within New South Wales. You can see - within New South Wales. You can see - that within New South Wales. You can see - that of within New South Wales. You can see - that of the within New South Wales. You can see - that of the use within New South Wales. You can see - that of the use of within New South Wales. You can see - that of the use of these - that of the use of these consorting - that of the use of these consorting laws, - that of the use of these consorting laws, 48% - that of the use of these consorting laws, 48% were - that of the use of these consorting laws, 48% were used consorting laws, 48% were used against consorting laws, 48% were used against Indigenous consorting laws, 48% were used against Indigenous people. consorting laws, 48% were used against Indigenous people. 39% consorting laws, 48% were used against Indigenous people. 39% used against Indigenous people. 39% used against against Indigenous people. 39% used against Indigenous against Indigenous people. 39% used against Indigenous people. against Indigenous people. 39% used against Indigenous people. 51%, against Indigenous people. 39% used against Indigenous people. 51%, 48%, against Indigenous people. 51%, 48%, 75% against Indigenous people. 51%, 48%, 75% of against Indigenous people. 51%, 48%, 75% of the against Indigenous people. 51%, 48%, 75% of the times against Indigenous people. 51%, 48%, 75% of the times these against Indigenous people. 51%, 48%, 75% of the times these consorting 75% of the times these consorting orders 75% of the times these consorting orders were 75% of the times these consorting orders were made, 75% of the times these consorting orders were made, they 75% of the times these consorting orders were made, they impacted orders were made, they impacted Aboriginal orders were made, they impacted Aboriginal and orders were made, they impacted Aboriginal and Indigenous orders were made, they impacted Aboriginal and Indigenous people. Aboriginal and Indigenous people. And Aboriginal and Indigenous people. And we Aboriginal and Indigenous people. And we know Aboriginal and Indigenous people. And we know it's Aboriginal and Indigenous people. And we know it's going Aboriginal and Indigenous people. And we know it's going to Aboriginal and Indigenous people. And we know it's going to be Aboriginal and Indigenous people. And we know it's going to be no And we know it's going to be no different And we know it's going to be no different in And we know it's going to be no different in Aotearoa. And we know it's going to be no different in Aotearoa. Because And we know it's going to be no different in Aotearoa. Because we different in Aotearoa. Because we already different in Aotearoa. Because we already know different in Aotearoa. Because we already know we different in Aotearoa. Because we already know we have different in Aotearoa. Because we already know we have a different in Aotearoa. Because we already know we have a system different in Aotearoa. Because we already know we have a system that already know we have a system that surveils already know we have a system that surveils and already know we have a system that surveils and suppresses already know we have a system that surveils and suppresses Maori. already know we have a system that surveils and suppresses Maori. That surveils and suppresses Maori. That picks surveils and suppresses Maori. That picks us surveils and suppresses Maori. That picks us up, surveils and suppresses Maori. That picks us up, takes surveils and suppresses Maori. That picks us up, takes tens surveils and suppresses Maori. That picks us up, takes tens of surveils and suppresses Maori. That picks us up, takes tens of thousands picks us up, takes tens of thousands of picks us up, takes tens of thousands of pictures picks us up, takes tens of thousands of pictures of picks us up, takes tens of thousands of pictures of young picks us up, takes tens of thousands of pictures of young Maori picks us up, takes tens of thousands of pictures of young Maori and of pictures of young Maori and stores of pictures of young Maori and stores them of pictures of young Maori and stores them illegally, of pictures of young Maori and stores them illegally, even of pictures of young Maori and stores them illegally, even after stores them illegally, even after the stores them illegally, even after the Privacy stores them illegally, even after the Privacy Commissioner stores them illegally, even after the Privacy Commissioner told stores them illegally, even after the Privacy Commissioner told the the Privacy Commissioner told the police the Privacy Commissioner told the police "you the Privacy Commissioner told the police "you need the Privacy Commissioner told the police "you need to the Privacy Commissioner told the police "you need to delete the Privacy Commissioner told the police "you need to delete these police "you need to delete these photos." police "you need to delete these photos." When police "you need to delete these photos." When we police "you need to delete these photos." When we had police "you need to delete these photos." When we had submitters photos." When we had submitters coming photos." When we had submitters coming to photos." When we had submitters coming to select photos." When we had submitters coming to select committee, photos." When we had submitters coming to select committee, I photos." When we had submitters coming to select committee, I think coming to select committee, I think it coming to select committee, I think it was coming to select committee, I think it was the coming to select committee, I think it was the police coming to select committee, I think it was the police association coming to select committee, I think it was the police association that it was the police association that said, it was the police association that said, you it was the police association that said, you know, it was the police association that said, you know, this it was the police association that said, you know, this is it was the police association that said, you know, this is about it was the police association that said, you know, this is about giving said, you know, this is about giving extra said, you know, this is about giving extra tools said, you know, this is about giving extra tools to said, you know, this is about giving extra tools to police, said, you know, this is about giving extra tools to police, it's said, you know, this is about giving extra tools to police, it's extra extra tools to police, it's extra tools extra tools to police, it's extra tools in extra tools to police, it's extra tools in the extra tools to police, it's extra tools in the tool extra tools to police, it's extra tools in the tool belt. extra tools to police, it's extra tools in the tool belt. Those extra tools to police, it's extra tools in the tool belt. Those are tools in the tool belt. Those are extra tools in the tool belt. Those are extra tools tools in the tool belt. Those are extra tools in tools in the tool belt. Those are extra tools in the tools in the tool belt. Those are extra tools in the tool tools in the tool belt. Those are extra tools in the tool belt tools in the tool belt. Those are extra tools in the tool belt to extra tools in the tool belt to surveil extra tools in the tool belt to surveil and extra tools in the tool belt to surveil and suppress extra tools in the tool belt to surveil and suppress Maori. extra tools in the tool belt to surveil and suppress Maori. We extra tools in the tool belt to surveil and suppress Maori. We know surveil and suppress Maori. We know that. surveil and suppress Maori. We know that. The surveil and suppress Maori. We know that. The reason surveil and suppress Maori. We know that. The reason we surveil and suppress Maori. We know that. The reason we draw surveil and suppress Maori. We know that. The reason we draw that that. The reason we draw that connection that. The reason we draw that connection to that. The reason we draw that connection to Maori that. The reason we draw that connection to Maori because that. The reason we draw that connection to Maori because you that. The reason we draw that connection to Maori because you look connection to Maori because you look at connection to Maori because you look at the connection to Maori because you look at the list connection to Maori because you look at the list of connection to Maori because you look at the list of gangs connection to Maori because you look at the list of gangs identified at the list of gangs identified within at the list of gangs identified within this at the list of gangs identified within this piece at the list of gangs identified within this piece of at the list of gangs identified within this piece of legislation, within this piece of legislation, you within this piece of legislation, you don't within this piece of legislation, you don't see within this piece of legislation, you don't see white within this piece of legislation, you don't see white supremacist you don't see white supremacist gangs you don't see white supremacist gangs in you don't see white supremacist gangs in there. you don't see white supremacist gangs in there. You you don't see white supremacist gangs in there. You don't you don't see white supremacist gangs in there. You don't see you don't see white supremacist gangs in there. You don't see a gangs in there. You don't see a whole gangs in there. You don't see a whole range gangs in there. You don't see a whole range of gangs in there. You don't see a whole range of other gangs in there. You don't see a whole range of other gangs gangs in there. You don't see a whole range of other gangs in gangs in there. You don't see a whole range of other gangs in there. whole range of other gangs in there. Not whole range of other gangs in there. Not even whole range of other gangs in there. Not even destiny's whole range of other gangs in there. Not even destiny's church whole range of other gangs in there. Not even destiny's church is whole range of other gangs in there. Not even destiny's church is in Not even destiny's church is in there. Not even destiny's church is in there. Because Not even destiny's church is in there. Because 80% Not even destiny's church is in there. Because 80% to Not even destiny's church is in there. Because 80% to 90% Not even destiny's church is in there. Because 80% to 90% of Not even destiny's church is in there. Because 80% to 90% of gang there. Because 80% to 90% of gang members there. Because 80% to 90% of gang members are there. Because 80% to 90% of gang members are Maori, there. Because 80% to 90% of gang members are Maori, so there. Because 80% to 90% of gang members are Maori, so these there. Because 80% to 90% of gang members are Maori, so these are there. Because 80% to 90% of gang members are Maori, so these are just members are Maori, so these are just tools members are Maori, so these are just tools to members are Maori, so these are just tools to contribute members are Maori, so these are just tools to contribute to members are Maori, so these are just tools to contribute to the tools to contribute to the surveillance tools to contribute to the surveillance and tools to contribute to the surveillance and suppression tools to contribute to the surveillance and suppression of surveillance and suppression of Maori, surveillance and suppression of Maori, which surveillance and suppression of Maori, which is surveillance and suppression of Maori, which is why surveillance and suppression of Maori, which is why I surveillance and suppression of Maori, which is why I suggest surveillance and suppression of Maori, which is why I suggest that Maori, which is why I suggest that that Maori, which is why I suggest that that should Maori, which is why I suggest that that should be Maori, which is why I suggest that that should be the Maori, which is why I suggest that that should be the title. Maori, which is why I suggest that that should be the title. Thank Maori, which is why I suggest that that should be the title. Thank you. that should be the title. Thank you. <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> Hon <INTERRUPTION> Hon Ginny <INTERRUPTION> Hon Ginny Andersen <INTERRUPTION> Hon Ginny Andersen - <INTERRUPTION> Hon Ginny Andersen - and <INTERRUPTION> Hon Ginny Andersen - and it <INTERRUPTION> Hon Ginny Andersen - and it will <INTERRUPTION> Hon Ginny Andersen - and it will be Hon Ginny Andersen - and it will be title Hon Ginny Andersen - and it will be title commencement Hon Ginny Andersen - and it will be title commencement or Hon Ginny Andersen - and it will be title commencement or questions Hon Ginny Andersen - and it will be title commencement or questions for title commencement or questions for the title commencement or questions for the Minister title commencement or questions for the Minister - title commencement or questions for the Minister - not title commencement or questions for the Minister - not wide-ranging the Minister - not wide-ranging view. the Minister - not wide-ranging view. I the Minister - not wide-ranging view. I did the Minister - not wide-ranging view. I did allow the Minister - not wide-ranging view. I did allow that the Minister - not wide-ranging view. I did allow that speech, view. I did allow that speech, because view. I did allow that speech, because there view. I did allow that speech, because there was view. I did allow that speech, because there was a view. I did allow that speech, because there was a cut-off view. I did allow that speech, because there was a cut-off the because there was a cut-off the other because there was a cut-off the other day because there was a cut-off the other day where because there was a cut-off the other day where the because there was a cut-off the other day where the member because there was a cut-off the other day where the member didn't other day where the member didn't have other day where the member didn't have the other day where the member didn't have the opportunity other day where the member didn't have the opportunity to other day where the member didn't have the opportunity to do other day where the member didn't have the opportunity to do that. other day where the member didn't have the opportunity to do that. The have the opportunity to do that. The Hon have the opportunity to do that. The Hon Ginny have the opportunity to do that. The Hon Ginny Andersen. have the opportunity to do that. The Hon Ginny Andersen. <INTERRUPTION> Hon Ginny Andersen. <INTERRUPTION> My Hon Ginny Andersen. <INTERRUPTION> My contribution, Hon Ginny Andersen. <INTERRUPTION> My contribution, Madam Hon Ginny Andersen. <INTERRUPTION> My contribution, Madam Chair, Hon Ginny Andersen. <INTERRUPTION> My contribution, Madam Chair, is Hon Ginny Andersen. <INTERRUPTION> My contribution, Madam Chair, is in My contribution, Madam Chair, is in relation My contribution, Madam Chair, is in relation to My contribution, Madam Chair, is in relation to the My contribution, Madam Chair, is in relation to the commencement, My contribution, Madam Chair, is in relation to the commencement, but My contribution, Madam Chair, is in relation to the commencement, but I relation to the commencement, but I was relation to the commencement, but I was wondering relation to the commencement, but I was wondering if relation to the commencement, but I was wondering if I relation to the commencement, but I was wondering if I had relation to the commencement, but I was wondering if I had to relation to the commencement, but I was wondering if I had to make relation to the commencement, but I was wondering if I had to make it was wondering if I had to make it climate-change-related was wondering if I had to make it climate-change-related given was wondering if I had to make it climate-change-related given who's climate-change-related given who's sitting climate-change-related given who's sitting in climate-change-related given who's sitting in the climate-change-related given who's sitting in the Minister's climate-change-related given who's sitting in the Minister's chafer, sitting in the Minister's chafer, but sitting in the Minister's chafer, but I'll sitting in the Minister's chafer, but I'll try sitting in the Minister's chafer, but I'll try to sitting in the Minister's chafer, but I'll try to keep sitting in the Minister's chafer, but I'll try to keep it sitting in the Minister's chafer, but I'll try to keep it on sitting in the Minister's chafer, but I'll try to keep it on gangs. sitting in the Minister's chafer, but I'll try to keep it on gangs. I but I'll try to keep it on gangs. I understand but I'll try to keep it on gangs. I understand this but I'll try to keep it on gangs. I understand this bill but I'll try to keep it on gangs. I understand this bill will but I'll try to keep it on gangs. I understand this bill will into understand this bill will into effect understand this bill will into effect immediately understand this bill will into effect immediately after understand this bill will into effect immediately after it understand this bill will into effect immediately after it receives effect immediately after it receives Royal effect immediately after it receives Royal assent, effect immediately after it receives Royal assent, which effect immediately after it receives Royal assent, which will effect immediately after it receives Royal assent, which will be effect immediately after it receives Royal assent, which will be a effect immediately after it receives Royal assent, which will be a couple Royal assent, which will be a couple of Royal assent, which will be a couple of days, Royal assent, which will be a couple of days, so Royal assent, which will be a couple of days, so it Royal assent, which will be a couple of days, so it should Royal assent, which will be a couple of days, so it should be, Royal assent, which will be a couple of days, so it should be, all Royal assent, which will be a couple of days, so it should be, all going of days, so it should be, all going well, of days, so it should be, all going well, up of days, so it should be, all going well, up and of days, so it should be, all going well, up and running of days, so it should be, all going well, up and running by of days, so it should be, all going well, up and running by the of days, so it should be, all going well, up and running by the third well, up and running by the third reading well, up and running by the third reading coming well, up and running by the third reading coming up well, up and running by the third reading coming up - well, up and running by the third reading coming up - that well, up and running by the third reading coming up - that should well, up and running by the third reading coming up - that should be, reading coming up - that should be, I reading coming up - that should be, I guess reading coming up - that should be, I guess - reading coming up - that should be, I guess - what reading coming up - that should be, I guess - what are reading coming up - that should be, I guess - what are we reading coming up - that should be, I guess - what are we now, reading coming up - that should be, I guess - what are we now, late I guess - what are we now, late August? I guess - what are we now, late August? October? I guess - what are we now, late August? October? October/November? August? October? October/November? It August? October? October/November? It should August? October? October/November? It should be August? October? October/November? It should be up August? October? October/November? It should be up then. August? October? October/November? It should be up then. So, August? October? October/November? It should be up then. So, my It should be up then. So, my proposal It should be up then. So, my proposal - It should be up then. So, my proposal - and It should be up then. So, my proposal - and the It should be up then. So, my proposal - and the Minister It should be up then. So, my proposal - and the Minister who's proposal - and the Minister who's available proposal - and the Minister who's available may proposal - and the Minister who's available may wish proposal - and the Minister who's available may wish to proposal - and the Minister who's available may wish to address proposal - and the Minister who's available may wish to address this proposal - and the Minister who's available may wish to address this - available may wish to address this - is available may wish to address this - is that available may wish to address this - is that I available may wish to address this - is that I actually available may wish to address this - is that I actually think available may wish to address this - is that I actually think that, available may wish to address this - is that I actually think that, in is that I actually think that, in order is that I actually think that, in order for is that I actually think that, in order for this is that I actually think that, in order for this legislation is that I actually think that, in order for this legislation to is that I actually think that, in order for this legislation to be order for this legislation to be effectively order for this legislation to be effectively able order for this legislation to be effectively able to order for this legislation to be effectively able to be order for this legislation to be effectively able to be implemented, effectively able to be implemented, that effectively able to be implemented, that you effectively able to be implemented, that you need effectively able to be implemented, that you need to effectively able to be implemented, that you need to be effectively able to be implemented, that you need to be an effectively able to be implemented, that you need to be an extension effectively able to be implemented, that you need to be an extension to that you need to be an extension to that that you need to be an extension to that commencement that you need to be an extension to that commencement date. that you need to be an extension to that commencement date. Because that commencement date. Because currently, that commencement date. Because currently, there's that commencement date. Because currently, there's insufficient currently, there's insufficient police currently, there's insufficient police resources currently, there's insufficient police resources for currently, there's insufficient police resources for this police resources for this legislation police resources for this legislation to police resources for this legislation to be police resources for this legislation to be enforced. police resources for this legislation to be enforced. I legislation to be enforced. I consider legislation to be enforced. I consider it's legislation to be enforced. I consider it's irresponsible legislation to be enforced. I consider it's irresponsible of legislation to be enforced. I consider it's irresponsible of this consider it's irresponsible of this Government consider it's irresponsible of this Government to consider it's irresponsible of this Government to pass consider it's irresponsible of this Government to pass a consider it's irresponsible of this Government to pass a law consider it's irresponsible of this Government to pass a law without Government to pass a law without having Government to pass a law without having the Government to pass a law without having the resources Government to pass a law without having the resources in Government to pass a law without having the resources in place Government to pass a law without having the resources in place to Government to pass a law without having the resources in place to be having the resources in place to be able having the resources in place to be able to having the resources in place to be able to actually having the resources in place to be able to actually enforce having the resources in place to be able to actually enforce it. having the resources in place to be able to actually enforce it. And having the resources in place to be able to actually enforce it. And so able to actually enforce it. And so we able to actually enforce it. And so we know able to actually enforce it. And so we know that able to actually enforce it. And so we know that there's able to actually enforce it. And so we know that there's around able to actually enforce it. And so we know that there's around about we know that there's around about 124 we know that there's around about 124 - we know that there's around about 124 - a we know that there's around about 124 - a few we know that there's around about 124 - a few more we know that there's around about 124 - a few more have we know that there's around about 124 - a few more have left we know that there's around about 124 - a few more have left - we know that there's around about 124 - a few more have left - we're 124 - a few more have left - we're sitting 124 - a few more have left - we're sitting around 124 - a few more have left - we're sitting around the 124 - a few more have left - we're sitting around the 120 124 - a few more have left - we're sitting around the 120 mark 124 - a few more have left - we're sitting around the 120 mark - 124 - a few more have left - we're sitting around the 120 mark - fewer sitting around the 120 mark - fewer police sitting around the 120 mark - fewer police officers sitting around the 120 mark - fewer police officers on sitting around the 120 mark - fewer police officers on the sitting around the 120 mark - fewer police officers on the front sitting around the 120 mark - fewer police officers on the front line police officers on the front line than police officers on the front line than when police officers on the front line than when this police officers on the front line than when this Government police officers on the front line than when this Government came police officers on the front line than when this Government came into than when this Government came into office. than when this Government came into office. And than when this Government came into office. And so than when this Government came into office. And so this than when this Government came into office. And so this legislation than when this Government came into office. And so this legislation is office. And so this legislation is quite office. And so this legislation is quite resource-intensive office. And so this legislation is quite resource-intensive for office. And so this legislation is quite resource-intensive for police quite resource-intensive for police officers. quite resource-intensive for police officers. My quite resource-intensive for police officers. My major quite resource-intensive for police officers. My major concern quite resource-intensive for police officers. My major concern is quite resource-intensive for police officers. My major concern is that officers. My major concern is that the officers. My major concern is that the additional officers. My major concern is that the additional police officers. My major concern is that the additional police officers officers. My major concern is that the additional police officers that the additional police officers that this the additional police officers that this Government the additional police officers that this Government has the additional police officers that this Government has promised the additional police officers that this Government has promised - the additional police officers that this Government has promised - the this Government has promised - the 500 this Government has promised - the 500 - this Government has promised - the 500 - actually this Government has promised - the 500 - actually need this Government has promised - the 500 - actually need to this Government has promised - the 500 - actually need to be this Government has promised - the 500 - actually need to be fully 500 - actually need to be fully recruited 500 - actually need to be fully recruited before 500 - actually need to be fully recruited before police 500 - actually need to be fully recruited before police are 500 - actually need to be fully recruited before police are at 500 - actually need to be fully recruited before police are at an recruited before police are at an operational recruited before police are at an operational capability recruited before police are at an operational capability to recruited before police are at an operational capability to be recruited before police are at an operational capability to be able recruited before police are at an operational capability to be able to operational capability to be able to effectively operational capability to be able to effectively enforce operational capability to be able to effectively enforce this effectively enforce this legislation, effectively enforce this legislation, Madam effectively enforce this legislation, Madam Chair. effectively enforce this legislation, Madam Chair. So effectively enforce this legislation, Madam Chair. So my legislation, Madam Chair. So my suggestion legislation, Madam Chair. So my suggestion would legislation, Madam Chair. So my suggestion would be legislation, Madam Chair. So my suggestion would be to legislation, Madam Chair. So my suggestion would be to kick legislation, Madam Chair. So my suggestion would be to kick out legislation, Madam Chair. So my suggestion would be to kick out this suggestion would be to kick out this commencement suggestion would be to kick out this commencement date suggestion would be to kick out this commencement date until suggestion would be to kick out this commencement date until they commencement date until they actually commencement date until they actually reach commencement date until they actually reach their commencement date until they actually reach their 500. commencement date until they actually reach their 500. I commencement date until they actually reach their 500. I think actually reach their 500. I think that actually reach their 500. I think that would actually reach their 500. I think that would be actually reach their 500. I think that would be a actually reach their 500. I think that would be a far actually reach their 500. I think that would be a far more actually reach their 500. I think that would be a far more realistic that would be a far more realistic way that would be a far more realistic way to that would be a far more realistic way to make that would be a far more realistic way to make sure that would be a far more realistic way to make sure that that would be a far more realistic way to make sure that we're that would be a far more realistic way to make sure that we're not way to make sure that we're not putting, way to make sure that we're not putting, I way to make sure that we're not putting, I guess, way to make sure that we're not putting, I guess, unattainable putting, I guess, unattainable expectations putting, I guess, unattainable expectations upon putting, I guess, unattainable expectations upon the putting, I guess, unattainable expectations upon the front putting, I guess, unattainable expectations upon the front line putting, I guess, unattainable expectations upon the front line to expectations upon the front line to be expectations upon the front line to be able expectations upon the front line to be able to expectations upon the front line to be able to roll expectations upon the front line to be able to roll this expectations upon the front line to be able to roll this out. expectations upon the front line to be able to roll this out. We expectations upon the front line to be able to roll this out. We get be able to roll this out. We get regular be able to roll this out. We get regular updates be able to roll this out. We get regular updates upon be able to roll this out. We get regular updates upon the be able to roll this out. We get regular updates upon the vacancies, regular updates upon the vacancies, currently regular updates upon the vacancies, currently carried regular updates upon the vacancies, currently carried right regular updates upon the vacancies, currently carried right across regular updates upon the vacancies, currently carried right across NZ currently carried right across NZ Police, currently carried right across NZ Police, and currently carried right across NZ Police, and those currently carried right across NZ Police, and those vacancies currently carried right across NZ Police, and those vacancies are Police, and those vacancies are heavy Police, and those vacancies are heavy in Police, and those vacancies are heavy in our Police, and those vacancies are heavy in our rural Police, and those vacancies are heavy in our rural areas. Police, and those vacancies are heavy in our rural areas. We Police, and those vacancies are heavy in our rural areas. We know heavy in our rural areas. We know that heavy in our rural areas. We know that there heavy in our rural areas. We know that there are heavy in our rural areas. We know that there are places heavy in our rural areas. We know that there are places around heavy in our rural areas. We know that there are places around New that there are places around New Zealand that there are places around New Zealand where that there are places around New Zealand where there that there are places around New Zealand where there are that there are places around New Zealand where there are one that there are places around New Zealand where there are one or that there are places around New Zealand where there are one or even Zealand where there are one or even just Zealand where there are one or even just two Zealand where there are one or even just two officers Zealand where there are one or even just two officers at Zealand where there are one or even just two officers at a Zealand where there are one or even just two officers at a station Zealand where there are one or even just two officers at a station where just two officers at a station where there just two officers at a station where there might just two officers at a station where there might be just two officers at a station where there might be currently just two officers at a station where there might be currently carried there might be currently carried four, there might be currently carried four, five, there might be currently carried four, five, six there might be currently carried four, five, six vacancies there might be currently carried four, five, six vacancies in four, five, six vacancies in different four, five, six vacancies in different roles. four, five, six vacancies in different roles. That's four, five, six vacancies in different roles. That's a four, five, six vacancies in different roles. That's a huge different roles. That's a huge administrative different roles. That's a huge administrative burden different roles. That's a huge administrative burden on different roles. That's a huge administrative burden on our different roles. That's a huge administrative burden on our police administrative burden on our police service. administrative burden on our police service. If administrative burden on our police service. If this administrative burden on our police service. If this legislation administrative burden on our police service. If this legislation is service. If this legislation is enacted service. If this legislation is enacted and service. If this legislation is enacted and there service. If this legislation is enacted and there is service. If this legislation is enacted and there is a service. If this legislation is enacted and there is a clear service. If this legislation is enacted and there is a clear public enacted and there is a clear public expectation enacted and there is a clear public expectation for enacted and there is a clear public expectation for police enacted and there is a clear public expectation for police officers enacted and there is a clear public expectation for police officers to expectation for police officers to enforce expectation for police officers to enforce this expectation for police officers to enforce this as expectation for police officers to enforce this as soon expectation for police officers to enforce this as soon as expectation for police officers to enforce this as soon as it expectation for police officers to enforce this as soon as it comes enforce this as soon as it comes into enforce this as soon as it comes into force, enforce this as soon as it comes into force, then enforce this as soon as it comes into force, then that's enforce this as soon as it comes into force, then that's not enforce this as soon as it comes into force, then that's not fair enforce this as soon as it comes into force, then that's not fair on into force, then that's not fair on those into force, then that's not fair on those police into force, then that's not fair on those police officers, into force, then that's not fair on those police officers, because into force, then that's not fair on those police officers, because they those police officers, because they need those police officers, because they need that those police officers, because they need that resource those police officers, because they need that resource in those police officers, because they need that resource in place those police officers, because they need that resource in place to those police officers, because they need that resource in place to be need that resource in place to be able need that resource in place to be able to need that resource in place to be able to do need that resource in place to be able to do that. need that resource in place to be able to do that. My need that resource in place to be able to do that. My proposal, need that resource in place to be able to do that. My proposal, Mr able to do that. My proposal, Mr Chair, able to do that. My proposal, Mr Chair, is able to do that. My proposal, Mr Chair, is that able to do that. My proposal, Mr Chair, is that this able to do that. My proposal, Mr Chair, is that this Government able to do that. My proposal, Mr Chair, is that this Government gives Chair, is that this Government gives some Chair, is that this Government gives some serious Chair, is that this Government gives some serious consideration Chair, is that this Government gives some serious consideration to some serious consideration to effectively some serious consideration to effectively recruiting some serious consideration to effectively recruiting the effectively recruiting the additional effectively recruiting the additional 500 effectively recruiting the additional 500 police, effectively recruiting the additional 500 police, and effectively recruiting the additional 500 police, and making additional 500 police, and making sure additional 500 police, and making sure that additional 500 police, and making sure that those additional 500 police, and making sure that those recruits additional 500 police, and making sure that those recruits - additional 500 police, and making sure that those recruits - by sure that those recruits - by talking sure that those recruits - by talking to sure that those recruits - by talking to the sure that those recruits - by talking to the district sure that those recruits - by talking to the district commanders talking to the district commanders and talking to the district commanders and the talking to the district commanders and the Commissioner talking to the district commanders and the Commissioner of talking to the district commanders and the Commissioner of Police talking to the district commanders and the Commissioner of Police - talking to the district commanders and the Commissioner of Police - to and the Commissioner of Police - to make and the Commissioner of Police - to make sure and the Commissioner of Police - to make sure that and the Commissioner of Police - to make sure that those and the Commissioner of Police - to make sure that those staff and the Commissioner of Police - to make sure that those staff are and the Commissioner of Police - to make sure that those staff are put make sure that those staff are put into make sure that those staff are put into areas make sure that those staff are put into areas that make sure that those staff are put into areas that are make sure that those staff are put into areas that are able make sure that those staff are put into areas that are able to make sure that those staff are put into areas that are able to make into areas that are able to make sure into areas that are able to make sure that into areas that are able to make sure that legislation into areas that are able to make sure that legislation is into areas that are able to make sure that legislation is able into areas that are able to make sure that legislation is able to into areas that are able to make sure that legislation is able to be sure that legislation is able to be enforced sure that legislation is able to be enforced as sure that legislation is able to be enforced as it's sure that legislation is able to be enforced as it's intended. enforced as it's intended. Otherwise, enforced as it's intended. Otherwise, what's enforced as it's intended. Otherwise, what's the enforced as it's intended. Otherwise, what's the point enforced as it's intended. Otherwise, what's the point of enforced as it's intended. Otherwise, what's the point of this Otherwise, what's the point of this bill? Otherwise, what's the point of this bill? What's Otherwise, what's the point of this bill? What's the Otherwise, what's the point of this bill? What's the actual Otherwise, what's the point of this bill? What's the actual point Otherwise, what's the point of this bill? What's the actual point of bill? What's the actual point of passing bill? What's the actual point of passing this bill? What's the actual point of passing this if bill? What's the actual point of passing this if the bill? What's the actual point of passing this if the law bill? What's the actual point of passing this if the law is bill? What's the actual point of passing this if the law is in bill? What's the actual point of passing this if the law is in place passing this if the law is in place but passing this if the law is in place but it passing this if the law is in place but it can't passing this if the law is in place but it can't be passing this if the law is in place but it can't be enforced? passing this if the law is in place but it can't be enforced? That passing this if the law is in place but it can't be enforced? That would but it can't be enforced? That would seem but it can't be enforced? That would seem like but it can't be enforced? That would seem like it but it can't be enforced? That would seem like it was but it can't be enforced? That would seem like it was just but it can't be enforced? That would seem like it was just kind but it can't be enforced? That would seem like it was just kind of but it can't be enforced? That would seem like it was just kind of stuff seem like it was just kind of stuff to seem like it was just kind of stuff to look seem like it was just kind of stuff to look good seem like it was just kind of stuff to look good on seem like it was just kind of stuff to look good on the seem like it was just kind of stuff to look good on the telly, seem like it was just kind of stuff to look good on the telly, wouldn't to look good on the telly, wouldn't it? to look good on the telly, wouldn't it? Which, to look good on the telly, wouldn't it? Which, of to look good on the telly, wouldn't it? Which, of course, to look good on the telly, wouldn't it? Which, of course, I'm to look good on the telly, wouldn't it? Which, of course, I'm sure it? Which, of course, I'm sure they're it? Which, of course, I'm sure they're not it? Which, of course, I'm sure they're not doing it? Which, of course, I'm sure they're not doing that. it? Which, of course, I'm sure they're not doing that. Can't it? Which, of course, I'm sure they're not doing that. Can't be they're not doing that. Can't be that. they're not doing that. Can't be that. <INTERRUPTION> that. <INTERRUPTION> Of that. <INTERRUPTION> Of course that. <INTERRUPTION> Of course they that. <INTERRUPTION> Of course they want that. <INTERRUPTION> Of course they want to that. <INTERRUPTION> Of course they want to make that. <INTERRUPTION> Of course they want to make sure Of course they want to make sure it's Of course they want to make sure it's actually Of course they want to make sure it's actually going Of course they want to make sure it's actually going to Of course they want to make sure it's actually going to have Of course they want to make sure it's actually going to have some it's actually going to have some effect. it's actually going to have some effect. <INTERRUPTION> effect. <INTERRUPTION> I effect. <INTERRUPTION> I actually effect. <INTERRUPTION> I actually think, effect. <INTERRUPTION> I actually think, Mr effect. <INTERRUPTION> I actually think, Mr Chair, effect. <INTERRUPTION> I actually think, Mr Chair, that I actually think, Mr Chair, that that's I actually think, Mr Chair, that that's a I actually think, Mr Chair, that that's a pretty I actually think, Mr Chair, that that's a pretty fair I actually think, Mr Chair, that that's a pretty fair idea I actually think, Mr Chair, that that's a pretty fair idea to I actually think, Mr Chair, that that's a pretty fair idea to kick that's a pretty fair idea to kick out that's a pretty fair idea to kick out that that's a pretty fair idea to kick out that commencement that's a pretty fair idea to kick out that commencement date that's a pretty fair idea to kick out that commencement date to that's a pretty fair idea to kick out that commencement date to make out that commencement date to make sure out that commencement date to make sure the out that commencement date to make sure the Government out that commencement date to make sure the Government meets out that commencement date to make sure the Government meets their sure the Government meets their target sure the Government meets their target of sure the Government meets their target of 500 sure the Government meets their target of 500 additional sure the Government meets their target of 500 additional police. sure the Government meets their target of 500 additional police. And target of 500 additional police. And I target of 500 additional police. And I think target of 500 additional police. And I think that target of 500 additional police. And I think that that target of 500 additional police. And I think that that actually target of 500 additional police. And I think that that actually would I think that that actually would give I think that that actually would give police I think that that actually would give police - I think that that actually would give police - it I think that that actually would give police - it would I think that that actually would give police - it would allay I think that that actually would give police - it would allay some I think that that actually would give police - it would allay some of give police - it would allay some of their give police - it would allay some of their concerns. give police - it would allay some of their concerns. The give police - it would allay some of their concerns. The Police their concerns. The Police Association their concerns. The Police Association have their concerns. The Police Association have come their concerns. The Police Association have come out their concerns. The Police Association have come out really Association have come out really strongly Association have come out really strongly on Association have come out really strongly on this. Association have come out really strongly on this. They're Association have come out really strongly on this. They're quite strongly on this. They're quite concerned strongly on this. They're quite concerned that strongly on this. They're quite concerned that having strongly on this. They're quite concerned that having laws strongly on this. They're quite concerned that having laws that concerned that having laws that can't concerned that having laws that can't be concerned that having laws that can't be enforced concerned that having laws that can't be enforced by concerned that having laws that can't be enforced by police concerned that having laws that can't be enforced by police officers can't be enforced by police officers undermines can't be enforced by police officers undermines the can't be enforced by police officers undermines the credibility can't be enforced by police officers undermines the credibility of can't be enforced by police officers undermines the credibility of the can't be enforced by police officers undermines the credibility of the NZ undermines the credibility of the NZ Police undermines the credibility of the NZ Police Service. undermines the credibility of the NZ Police Service. And undermines the credibility of the NZ Police Service. And effectively, Police Service. And effectively, undermines Police Service. And effectively, undermines the Police Service. And effectively, undermines the rule Police Service. And effectively, undermines the rule of Police Service. And effectively, undermines the rule of law Police Service. And effectively, undermines the rule of law in Police Service. And effectively, undermines the rule of law in New undermines the rule of law in New Zealand. undermines the rule of law in New Zealand. Why undermines the rule of law in New Zealand. Why pass undermines the rule of law in New Zealand. Why pass a undermines the rule of law in New Zealand. Why pass a law undermines the rule of law in New Zealand. Why pass a law you undermines the rule of law in New Zealand. Why pass a law you can't Zealand. Why pass a law you can't enforce? Zealand. Why pass a law you can't enforce? Because Zealand. Why pass a law you can't enforce? Because that Zealand. Why pass a law you can't enforce? Because that gives Zealand. Why pass a law you can't enforce? Because that gives people enforce? Because that gives people the enforce? Because that gives people the understanding enforce? Because that gives people the understanding or enforce? Because that gives people the understanding or the enforce? Because that gives people the understanding or the impression the understanding or the impression - the understanding or the impression - as the understanding or the impression - as that the understanding or the impression - as that -- the understanding or the impression - as that -- that the understanding or the impression - as that -- that all the understanding or the impression - as that -- that all laws the understanding or the impression - as that -- that all laws don't - as that -- that all laws don't have - as that -- that all laws don't have to - as that -- that all laws don't have to be - as that -- that all laws don't have to be enforced. - as that -- that all laws don't have to be enforced. So - as that -- that all laws don't have to be enforced. So why - as that -- that all laws don't have to be enforced. So why are - as that -- that all laws don't have to be enforced. So why are we have to be enforced. So why are we passing have to be enforced. So why are we passing laws have to be enforced. So why are we passing laws that have to be enforced. So why are we passing laws that can't have to be enforced. So why are we passing laws that can't be have to be enforced. So why are we passing laws that can't be enforced? passing laws that can't be enforced? Because passing laws that can't be enforced? Because that passing laws that can't be enforced? Because that would passing laws that can't be enforced? Because that would just passing laws that can't be enforced? Because that would just seem passing laws that can't be enforced? Because that would just seem to passing laws that can't be enforced? Because that would just seem to be Because that would just seem to be kind Because that would just seem to be kind of Because that would just seem to be kind of a Because that would just seem to be kind of a good Because that would just seem to be kind of a good clickbait Because that would just seem to be kind of a good clickbait or Because that would just seem to be kind of a good clickbait or pretty kind of a good clickbait or pretty good kind of a good clickbait or pretty good slogan, kind of a good clickbait or pretty good slogan, but kind of a good clickbait or pretty good slogan, but it kind of a good clickbait or pretty good slogan, but it wouldn't good slogan, but it wouldn't actually good slogan, but it wouldn't actually be good slogan, but it wouldn't actually be delivering good slogan, but it wouldn't actually be delivering on good slogan, but it wouldn't actually be delivering on what's actually be delivering on what's been actually be delivering on what's been promised actually be delivering on what's been promised to actually be delivering on what's been promised to voters actually be delivering on what's been promised to voters in actually be delivering on what's been promised to voters in New been promised to voters in New Zealand. been promised to voters in New Zealand. <INTERRUPTION> Zealand. <INTERRUPTION> The Zealand. <INTERRUPTION> The Hon Zealand. <INTERRUPTION> The Hon Duncan Zealand. <INTERRUPTION> The Hon Duncan Webb. Zealand. <INTERRUPTION> The Hon Duncan Webb. Sorry Zealand. <INTERRUPTION> The Hon Duncan Webb. Sorry - Zealand. <INTERRUPTION> The Hon Duncan Webb. Sorry - the The Hon Duncan Webb. Sorry - the honourable The Hon Duncan Webb. Sorry - the honourable minister. The Hon Duncan Webb. Sorry - the honourable minister. Thank The Hon Duncan Webb. Sorry - the honourable minister. Thank you The Hon Duncan Webb. Sorry - the honourable minister. Thank you very honourable minister. Thank you very much, honourable minister. Thank you very much, Mr honourable minister. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. honourable minister. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I honourable minister. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I thank honourable minister. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I thank the honourable minister. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I thank the member much, Mr Chair. I thank the member for much, Mr Chair. I thank the member for the much, Mr Chair. I thank the member for the question. much, Mr Chair. I thank the member for the question. As much, Mr Chair. I thank the member for the question. As the much, Mr Chair. I thank the member for the question. As the member much, Mr Chair. I thank the member for the question. As the member will for the question. As the member will be for the question. As the member will be aware, for the question. As the member will be aware, the for the question. As the member will be aware, the commencement for the question. As the member will be aware, the commencement date for the question. As the member will be aware, the commencement date was be aware, the commencement date was covered be aware, the commencement date was covered as be aware, the commencement date was covered as part be aware, the commencement date was covered as part of be aware, the commencement date was covered as part of the be aware, the commencement date was covered as part of the select covered as part of the select committee covered as part of the select committee process. covered as part of the select committee process. The covered as part of the select committee process. The agreement committee process. The agreement around committee process. The agreement around the committee process. The agreement around the commencement committee process. The agreement around the commencement of committee process. The agreement around the commencement of the committee process. The agreement around the commencement of the bill around the commencement of the bill being around the commencement of the bill being 21 around the commencement of the bill being 21 November around the commencement of the bill being 21 November 2024 around the commencement of the bill being 21 November 2024 was around the commencement of the bill being 21 November 2024 was through being 21 November 2024 was through discussion being 21 November 2024 was through discussion at being 21 November 2024 was through discussion at the being 21 November 2024 was through discussion at the select being 21 November 2024 was through discussion at the select committee discussion at the select committee process discussion at the select committee process and discussion at the select committee process and was discussion at the select committee process and was actually discussion at the select committee process and was actually based discussion at the select committee process and was actually based on process and was actually based on the process and was actually based on the date process and was actually based on the date in process and was actually based on the date in which process and was actually based on the date in which the process and was actually based on the date in which the police the date in which the police requested the date in which the police requested that the date in which the police requested that the the date in which the police requested that the legislation the date in which the police requested that the legislation would requested that the legislation would be requested that the legislation would be commenced. requested that the legislation would be commenced. So, requested that the legislation would be commenced. So, on requested that the legislation would be commenced. So, on that requested that the legislation would be commenced. So, on that basis, requested that the legislation would be commenced. So, on that basis, we be commenced. So, on that basis, we are be commenced. So, on that basis, we are happy be commenced. So, on that basis, we are happy to be commenced. So, on that basis, we are happy to accommodate be commenced. So, on that basis, we are happy to accommodate the are happy to accommodate the police's are happy to accommodate the police's request are happy to accommodate the police's request of are happy to accommodate the police's request of 21 are happy to accommodate the police's request of 21 November are happy to accommodate the police's request of 21 November 2024 police's request of 21 November 2024 - police's request of 21 November 2024 - that police's request of 21 November 2024 - that is police's request of 21 November 2024 - that is the police's request of 21 November 2024 - that is the date police's request of 21 November 2024 - that is the date in police's request of 21 November 2024 - that is the date in which police's request of 21 November 2024 - that is the date in which this - that is the date in which this bill - that is the date in which this bill will - that is the date in which this bill will commence - that is the date in which this bill will commence and - that is the date in which this bill will commence and that - that is the date in which this bill will commence and that is - that is the date in which this bill will commence and that is how bill will commence and that is how we bill will commence and that is how we are bill will commence and that is how we are going bill will commence and that is how we are going to bill will commence and that is how we are going to proceed. bill will commence and that is how we are going to proceed. The bill will commence and that is how we are going to proceed. The Hon we are going to proceed. The Hon Duncan we are going to proceed. The Hon Duncan Webb. we are going to proceed. The Hon Duncan Webb. Thank we are going to proceed. The Hon Duncan Webb. Thank you, we are going to proceed. The Hon Duncan Webb. Thank you, Mr we are going to proceed. The Hon Duncan Webb. Thank you, Mr Chair. Duncan Webb. Thank you, Mr Chair. I've Duncan Webb. Thank you, Mr Chair. I've thought Duncan Webb. Thank you, Mr Chair. I've thought very Duncan Webb. Thank you, Mr Chair. I've thought very carefully Duncan Webb. Thank you, Mr Chair. I've thought very carefully about I've thought very carefully about this... I've thought very carefully about this... <INTERRUPTION> this... <INTERRUPTION> Well, this... <INTERRUPTION> Well, Mr this... <INTERRUPTION> Well, Mr Doocey, this... <INTERRUPTION> Well, Mr Doocey, on this... <INTERRUPTION> Well, Mr Doocey, on this this... <INTERRUPTION> Well, Mr Doocey, on this side this... <INTERRUPTION> Well, Mr Doocey, on this side of this... <INTERRUPTION> Well, Mr Doocey, on this side of the Well, Mr Doocey, on this side of the House, Well, Mr Doocey, on this side of the House, we Well, Mr Doocey, on this side of the House, we do Well, Mr Doocey, on this side of the House, we do think Well, Mr Doocey, on this side of the House, we do think carefully Well, Mr Doocey, on this side of the House, we do think carefully - House, we do think carefully - unlike House, we do think carefully - unlike the House, we do think carefully - unlike the people House, we do think carefully - unlike the people who House, we do think carefully - unlike the people who came House, we do think carefully - unlike the people who came up House, we do think carefully - unlike the people who came up with unlike the people who came up with this unlike the people who came up with this bill, unlike the people who came up with this bill, who unlike the people who came up with this bill, who really unlike the people who came up with this bill, who really didn't unlike the people who came up with this bill, who really didn't think this bill, who really didn't think it this bill, who really didn't think it out. this bill, who really didn't think it out. <INTERRUPTION> it out. <INTERRUPTION> No, it out. <INTERRUPTION> No, because it out. <INTERRUPTION> No, because this it out. <INTERRUPTION> No, because this bill it out. <INTERRUPTION> No, because this bill should it out. <INTERRUPTION> No, because this bill should be No, because this bill should be called No, because this bill should be called - No, because this bill should be called - the No, because this bill should be called - the title No, because this bill should be called - the title clause No, because this bill should be called - the title clause should No, because this bill should be called - the title clause should be called - the title clause should be - called - the title clause should be - have called - the title clause should be - have to called - the title clause should be - have to put called - the title clause should be - have to put an called - the title clause should be - have to put an Amendment called - the title clause should be - have to put an Amendment Paper called - the title clause should be - have to put an Amendment Paper in - have to put an Amendment Paper in if - have to put an Amendment Paper in if the - have to put an Amendment Paper in if the Minister's - have to put an Amendment Paper in if the Minister's happy - have to put an Amendment Paper in if the Minister's happy - - have to put an Amendment Paper in if the Minister's happy - the - have to put an Amendment Paper in if the Minister's happy - the Gang if the Minister's happy - the Gang <INTIMIDATION) if the Minister's happy - the Gang <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT if the Minister's happy - the Gang <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT BILL.) <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT BILL.) Because <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT BILL.) Because this <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT BILL.) Because this bill <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT BILL.) Because this bill really <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT BILL.) Because this bill really does <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT BILL.) Because this bill really does - <INTIMIDATION) AMENDMENT BILL.) Because this bill really does - it's Because this bill really does - it's really Because this bill really does - it's really just Because this bill really does - it's really just Paul Because this bill really does - it's really just Paul Goldsmith Because this bill really does - it's really just Paul Goldsmith saying, really just Paul Goldsmith saying, "You really just Paul Goldsmith saying, "You gangs, really just Paul Goldsmith saying, "You gangs, watch really just Paul Goldsmith saying, "You gangs, watch out! really just Paul Goldsmith saying, "You gangs, watch out! We're really just Paul Goldsmith saying, "You gangs, watch out! We're coming "You gangs, watch out! We're coming for "You gangs, watch out! We're coming for you." "You gangs, watch out! We're coming for you." That's "You gangs, watch out! We're coming for you." That's about "You gangs, watch out! We're coming for you." That's about as "You gangs, watch out! We're coming for you." That's about as effective for you." That's about as effective as for you." That's about as effective as it for you." That's about as effective as it is. for you." That's about as effective as it is. It's for you." That's about as effective as it is. It's as for you." That's about as effective as it is. It's as effective for you." That's about as effective as it is. It's as effective as for you." That's about as effective as it is. It's as effective as Paul as it is. It's as effective as Paul Goldsmith as it is. It's as effective as Paul Goldsmith with as it is. It's as effective as Paul Goldsmith with his as it is. It's as effective as Paul Goldsmith with his MAGA as it is. It's as effective as Paul Goldsmith with his MAGA cap as it is. It's as effective as Paul Goldsmith with his MAGA cap on Goldsmith with his MAGA cap on saying, Goldsmith with his MAGA cap on saying, "We're Goldsmith with his MAGA cap on saying, "We're coming Goldsmith with his MAGA cap on saying, "We're coming for Goldsmith with his MAGA cap on saying, "We're coming for you." Goldsmith with his MAGA cap on saying, "We're coming for you." And saying, "We're coming for you." And the saying, "We're coming for you." And the gangs saying, "We're coming for you." And the gangs - saying, "We're coming for you." And the gangs - you saying, "We're coming for you." And the gangs - you know saying, "We're coming for you." And the gangs - you know what? saying, "We're coming for you." And the gangs - you know what? The saying, "We're coming for you." And the gangs - you know what? The gangs the gangs - you know what? The gangs are the gangs - you know what? The gangs are quivering the gangs - you know what? The gangs are quivering in the gangs - you know what? The gangs are quivering in their the gangs - you know what? The gangs are quivering in their boats. the gangs - you know what? The gangs are quivering in their boats. That's are quivering in their boats. That's about are quivering in their boats. That's about how are quivering in their boats. That's about how effective are quivering in their boats. That's about how effective this are quivering in their boats. That's about how effective this is. are quivering in their boats. That's about how effective this is. Because about how effective this is. Because this about how effective this is. Because this is about how effective this is. Because this is Paul about how effective this is. Because this is Paul Goldsmith about how effective this is. Because this is Paul Goldsmith trying about how effective this is. Because this is Paul Goldsmith trying to this is Paul Goldsmith trying to intimidate this is Paul Goldsmith trying to intimidate gangs this is Paul Goldsmith trying to intimidate gangs out this is Paul Goldsmith trying to intimidate gangs out of this is Paul Goldsmith trying to intimidate gangs out of their intimidate gangs out of their patches. intimidate gangs out of their patches. We intimidate gangs out of their patches. We know intimidate gangs out of their patches. We know for intimidate gangs out of their patches. We know for a intimidate gangs out of their patches. We know for a fact intimidate gangs out of their patches. We know for a fact - intimidate gangs out of their patches. We know for a fact - we patches. We know for a fact - we heard patches. We know for a fact - we heard quite patches. We know for a fact - we heard quite clearly patches. We know for a fact - we heard quite clearly - patches. We know for a fact - we heard quite clearly - that patches. We know for a fact - we heard quite clearly - that the heard quite clearly - that the police heard quite clearly - that the police are heard quite clearly - that the police are not heard quite clearly - that the police are not going heard quite clearly - that the police are not going to heard quite clearly - that the police are not going to go heard quite clearly - that the police are not going to go around police are not going to go around and police are not going to go around and hunt police are not going to go around and hunt out police are not going to go around and hunt out gang police are not going to go around and hunt out gang patches. police are not going to go around and hunt out gang patches. This police are not going to go around and hunt out gang patches. This is and hunt out gang patches. This is ut and hunt out gang patches. This is ut erly and hunt out gang patches. This is ut erly window- and hunt out gang patches. This is ut erly window- -- and hunt out gang patches. This is ut erly window- -- utterly ut erly window- -- utterly window-dressing. ut erly window- -- utterly window-dressing. It's ut erly window- -- utterly window-dressing. It's just ut erly window- -- utterly window-dressing. It's just an window-dressing. It's just an utterly window-dressing. It's just an utterly ineffectual window-dressing. It's just an utterly ineffectual attempt window-dressing. It's just an utterly ineffectual attempt by window-dressing. It's just an utterly ineffectual attempt by that utterly ineffectual attempt by that Government utterly ineffectual attempt by that Government over utterly ineffectual attempt by that Government over there utterly ineffectual attempt by that Government over there to utterly ineffectual attempt by that Government over there to address Government over there to address gangs Government over there to address gangs by Government over there to address gangs by trying Government over there to address gangs by trying to Government over there to address gangs by trying to scare Government over there to address gangs by trying to scare them Government over there to address gangs by trying to scare them out Government over there to address gangs by trying to scare them out of gangs by trying to scare them out of their gangs by trying to scare them out of their gang gangs by trying to scare them out of their gang patches. gangs by trying to scare them out of their gang patches. "Boo...!" gangs by trying to scare them out of their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's just their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's just not their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's just not going their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's just not going to their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's just not going to work. their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's just not going to work. It's their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's just not going to work. It's a their gang patches. "Boo...!" It's just not going to work. It's a bill. just not going to work. It's a bill. -- just not going to work. It's a bill. -- ridiculous just not going to work. It's a bill. -- ridiculous bill. just not going to work. It's a bill. -- ridiculous bill. The just not going to work. It's a bill. -- ridiculous bill. The fact just not going to work. It's a bill. -- ridiculous bill. The fact of just not going to work. It's a bill. -- ridiculous bill. The fact of the -- ridiculous bill. The fact of the matter -- ridiculous bill. The fact of the matter is -- ridiculous bill. The fact of the matter is it's -- ridiculous bill. The fact of the matter is it's effectively matter is it's effectively posturing. matter is it's effectively posturing. Posturing matter is it's effectively posturing. Posturing would matter is it's effectively posturing. Posturing would be matter is it's effectively posturing. Posturing would be fine posturing. Posturing would be fine it posturing. Posturing would be fine it was posturing. Posturing would be fine it was effective, posturing. Posturing would be fine it was effective, but posturing. Posturing would be fine it was effective, but it's it was effective, but it's ineffectual it was effective, but it's ineffectual posturing. it was effective, but it's ineffectual posturing. I it was effective, but it's ineffectual posturing. I know it was effective, but it's ineffectual posturing. I know why ineffectual posturing. I know why James ineffectual posturing. I know why James Meager ineffectual posturing. I know why James Meager hasn't ineffectual posturing. I know why James Meager hasn't taken ineffectual posturing. I know why James Meager hasn't taken a ineffectual posturing. I know why James Meager hasn't taken a call ineffectual posturing. I know why James Meager hasn't taken a call - James Meager hasn't taken a call - because James Meager hasn't taken a call - because he's James Meager hasn't taken a call - because he's absolutely James Meager hasn't taken a call - because he's absolutely appalled James Meager hasn't taken a call - because he's absolutely appalled by because he's absolutely appalled by his because he's absolutely appalled by his own because he's absolutely appalled by his own Government's because he's absolutely appalled by his own Government's bill. because he's absolutely appalled by his own Government's bill. He because he's absolutely appalled by his own Government's bill. He sat his own Government's bill. He sat there his own Government's bill. He sat there in his own Government's bill. He sat there in select his own Government's bill. He sat there in select committee his own Government's bill. He sat there in select committee with his own Government's bill. He sat there in select committee with his there in select committee with his head there in select committee with his head in there in select committee with his head in his there in select committee with his head in his hands there in select committee with his head in his hands as there in select committee with his head in his hands as we there in select committee with his head in his hands as we went there in select committee with his head in his hands as we went through head in his hands as we went through and head in his hands as we went through and worked head in his hands as we went through and worked out head in his hands as we went through and worked out how head in his hands as we went through and worked out how hopeless head in his hands as we went through and worked out how hopeless that and worked out how hopeless that bill and worked out how hopeless that bill was. and worked out how hopeless that bill was. And and worked out how hopeless that bill was. And now and worked out how hopeless that bill was. And now there and worked out how hopeless that bill was. And now there he and worked out how hopeless that bill was. And now there he is and worked out how hopeless that bill was. And now there he is still bill was. And now there he is still - bill was. And now there he is still - take bill was. And now there he is still - take your bill was. And now there he is still - take your head bill was. And now there he is still - take your head out bill was. And now there he is still - take your head out of bill was. And now there he is still - take your head out of your bill was. And now there he is still - take your head out of your hands, - take your head out of your hands, stand - take your head out of your hands, stand up, - take your head out of your hands, stand up, and - take your head out of your hands, stand up, and take - take your head out of your hands, stand up, and take a - take your head out of your hands, stand up, and take a call, - take your head out of your hands, stand up, and take a call, and - take your head out of your hands, stand up, and take a call, and talk stand up, and take a call, and talk about stand up, and take a call, and talk about the stand up, and take a call, and talk about the so-called stand up, and take a call, and talk about the so-called merits stand up, and take a call, and talk about the so-called merits of stand up, and take a call, and talk about the so-called merits of this about the so-called merits of this bill. about the so-called merits of this bill. Because about the so-called merits of this bill. Because this about the so-called merits of this bill. Because this bill, about the so-called merits of this bill. Because this bill, as about the so-called merits of this bill. Because this bill, as we about the so-called merits of this bill. Because this bill, as we went bill. Because this bill, as we went through bill. Because this bill, as we went through it bill. Because this bill, as we went through it in bill. Because this bill, as we went through it in committee bill. Because this bill, as we went through it in committee of bill. Because this bill, as we went through it in committee of the bill. Because this bill, as we went through it in committee of the whole through it in committee of the whole here, through it in committee of the whole here, time through it in committee of the whole here, time and through it in committee of the whole here, time and again, through it in committee of the whole here, time and again, it through it in committee of the whole here, time and again, it was here, time and again, it was demonstrated here, time and again, it was demonstrated how here, time and again, it was demonstrated how it here, time and again, it was demonstrated how it is here, time and again, it was demonstrated how it is unworkable. demonstrated how it is unworkable. So demonstrated how it is unworkable. So it demonstrated how it is unworkable. So it can't demonstrated how it is unworkable. So it can't be demonstrated how it is unworkable. So it can't be anything demonstrated how it is unworkable. So it can't be anything other demonstrated how it is unworkable. So it can't be anything other than So it can't be anything other than window-dressing So it can't be anything other than window-dressing and So it can't be anything other than window-dressing and an So it can't be anything other than window-dressing and an attempt So it can't be anything other than window-dressing and an attempt to window-dressing and an attempt to intimidate. window-dressing and an attempt to intimidate. And window-dressing and an attempt to intimidate. And so, window-dressing and an attempt to intimidate. And so, really, window-dressing and an attempt to intimidate. And so, really, the window-dressing and an attempt to intimidate. And so, really, the fact intimidate. And so, really, the fact of intimidate. And so, really, the fact of the intimidate. And so, really, the fact of the matter intimidate. And so, really, the fact of the matter is intimidate. And so, really, the fact of the matter is that intimidate. And so, really, the fact of the matter is that the intimidate. And so, really, the fact of the matter is that the bill intimidate. And so, really, the fact of the matter is that the bill - intimidate. And so, really, the fact of the matter is that the bill - I of the matter is that the bill - I want of the matter is that the bill - I want it of the matter is that the bill - I want it on of the matter is that the bill - I want it on the of the matter is that the bill - I want it on the record, of the matter is that the bill - I want it on the record, we of the matter is that the bill - I want it on the record, we were want it on the record, we were precluded want it on the record, we were precluded from want it on the record, we were precluded from talking want it on the record, we were precluded from talking about precluded from talking about non-consorting precluded from talking about non-consorting orders precluded from talking about non-consorting orders - precluded from talking about non-consorting orders - that precluded from talking about non-consorting orders - that debate non-consorting orders - that debate was non-consorting orders - that debate was shut non-consorting orders - that debate was shut down non-consorting orders - that debate was shut down in non-consorting orders - that debate was shut down in a non-consorting orders - that debate was shut down in a way non-consorting orders - that debate was shut down in a way which non-consorting orders - that debate was shut down in a way which was was shut down in a way which was most was shut down in a way which was most unfortunate was shut down in a way which was most unfortunate - was shut down in a way which was most unfortunate - and was shut down in a way which was most unfortunate - and those was shut down in a way which was most unfortunate - and those are was shut down in a way which was most unfortunate - and those are a most unfortunate - and those are a really most unfortunate - and those are a really good most unfortunate - and those are a really good example most unfortunate - and those are a really good example of most unfortunate - and those are a really good example of orders most unfortunate - and those are a really good example of orders that really good example of orders that will really good example of orders that will never really good example of orders that will never be really good example of orders that will never be made. really good example of orders that will never be made. Just really good example of orders that will never be made. Just like will never be made. Just like non-association will never be made. Just like non-association orders, will never be made. Just like non-association orders, which non-association orders, which already non-association orders, which already exists non-association orders, which already exists under non-association orders, which already exists under the non-association orders, which already exists under the Sentencing already exists under the Sentencing Act already exists under the Sentencing Act and already exists under the Sentencing Act and are already exists under the Sentencing Act and are pretty already exists under the Sentencing Act and are pretty much already exists under the Sentencing Act and are pretty much never already exists under the Sentencing Act and are pretty much never used. Act and are pretty much never used. Because Act and are pretty much never used. Because they're Act and are pretty much never used. Because they're not Act and are pretty much never used. Because they're not useful. Act and are pretty much never used. Because they're not useful. They're Because they're not useful. They're not Because they're not useful. They're not effective. Because they're not useful. They're not effective. They Because they're not useful. They're not effective. They don't Because they're not useful. They're not effective. They don't have Because they're not useful. They're not effective. They don't have any not effective. They don't have any actual not effective. They don't have any actual criminal not effective. They don't have any actual criminal justice not effective. They don't have any actual criminal justice purpose. not effective. They don't have any actual criminal justice purpose. And actual criminal justice purpose. And so actual criminal justice purpose. And so what actual criminal justice purpose. And so what we actual criminal justice purpose. And so what we have actual criminal justice purpose. And so what we have here actual criminal justice purpose. And so what we have here is actual criminal justice purpose. And so what we have here is a actual criminal justice purpose. And so what we have here is a bill actual criminal justice purpose. And so what we have here is a bill which so what we have here is a bill which is so what we have here is a bill which is ineffectual so what we have here is a bill which is ineffectual window-dressing. so what we have here is a bill which is ineffectual window-dressing. None is ineffectual window-dressing. None of is ineffectual window-dressing. None of the is ineffectual window-dressing. None of the things is ineffectual window-dressing. None of the things - is ineffectual window-dressing. None of the things - gang is ineffectual window-dressing. None of the things - gang patches, of the things - gang patches, dispersal of the things - gang patches, dispersal notices, of the things - gang patches, dispersal notices, consorting dispersal notices, consorting orders, dispersal notices, consorting orders, sentencing dispersal notices, consorting orders, sentencing aggravating orders, sentencing aggravating factors orders, sentencing aggravating factors - orders, sentencing aggravating factors - none orders, sentencing aggravating factors - none of orders, sentencing aggravating factors - none of them orders, sentencing aggravating factors - none of them are orders, sentencing aggravating factors - none of them are workable. factors - none of them are workable. As factors - none of them are workable. As you factors - none of them are workable. As you walk factors - none of them are workable. As you walk through factors - none of them are workable. As you walk through them, factors - none of them are workable. As you walk through them, none factors - none of them are workable. As you walk through them, none of As you walk through them, none of them As you walk through them, none of them actually As you walk through them, none of them actually work. As you walk through them, none of them actually work. So As you walk through them, none of them actually work. So it As you walk through them, none of them actually work. So it can't As you walk through them, none of them actually work. So it can't be them actually work. So it can't be anything them actually work. So it can't be anything other them actually work. So it can't be anything other than them actually work. So it can't be anything other than either them actually work. So it can't be anything other than either a anything other than either a window-dressing anything other than either a window-dressing bill anything other than either a window-dressing bill or anything other than either a window-dressing bill or an anything other than either a window-dressing bill or an attempt window-dressing bill or an attempt by window-dressing bill or an attempt by Paul window-dressing bill or an attempt by Paul Goldsmith window-dressing bill or an attempt by Paul Goldsmith to window-dressing bill or an attempt by Paul Goldsmith to stare window-dressing bill or an attempt by Paul Goldsmith to stare down window-dressing bill or an attempt by Paul Goldsmith to stare down the by Paul Goldsmith to stare down the gangs by Paul Goldsmith to stare down the gangs with by Paul Goldsmith to stare down the gangs with his by Paul Goldsmith to stare down the gangs with his tough-on-crime, gangs with his tough-on-crime, real-consequences gangs with his tough-on-crime, real-consequences approach, gangs with his tough-on-crime, real-consequences approach, which gangs with his tough-on-crime, real-consequences approach, which is real-consequences approach, which is simply real-consequences approach, which is simply unworkable. real-consequences approach, which is simply unworkable. So real-consequences approach, which is simply unworkable. So there real-consequences approach, which is simply unworkable. So there you real-consequences approach, which is simply unworkable. So there you go. simply unworkable. So there you go. The simply unworkable. So there you go. The Minister's simply unworkable. So there you go. The Minister's happy simply unworkable. So there you go. The Minister's happy to simply unworkable. So there you go. The Minister's happy to have simply unworkable. So there you go. The Minister's happy to have it The Minister's happy to have it called The Minister's happy to have it called the The Minister's happy to have it called the Gang The Minister's happy to have it called the Gang (Intimidation) called the Gang (Intimidation) Amendment called the Gang (Intimidation) Amendment Bill called the Gang (Intimidation) Amendment Bill or called the Gang (Intimidation) Amendment Bill or Gangs called the Gang (Intimidation) Amendment Bill or Gangs (Paul Amendment Bill or Gangs (Paul Goldsmith Amendment Bill or Gangs (Paul Goldsmith Intimidating Amendment Bill or Gangs (Paul Goldsmith Intimidating Them) Amendment Bill or Gangs (Paul Goldsmith Intimidating Them) Bill, Goldsmith Intimidating Them) Bill, that Goldsmith Intimidating Them) Bill, that might Goldsmith Intimidating Them) Bill, that might be Goldsmith Intimidating Them) Bill, that might be a Goldsmith Intimidating Them) Bill, that might be a more Goldsmith Intimidating Them) Bill, that might be a more appropriate that might be a more appropriate title. that might be a more appropriate title. <INTERRUPTION> title. <INTERRUPTION> I title. <INTERRUPTION> I move title. <INTERRUPTION> I move that title. <INTERRUPTION> I move that debate title. <INTERRUPTION> I move that debate on title. <INTERRUPTION> I move that debate on this title. <INTERRUPTION> I move that debate on this question I move that debate on this question now I move that debate on this question now close. I move that debate on this question now close. The I move that debate on this question now close. The Hon I move that debate on this question now close. The Hon Willie I move that debate on this question now close. The Hon Willie Jackson. now close. The Hon Willie Jackson. Chair... now close. The Hon Willie Jackson. Chair... <INTERRUPTION> Chair... <INTERRUPTION> On Chair... <INTERRUPTION> On the Chair... <INTERRUPTION> On the title Chair... <INTERRUPTION> On the title and Chair... <INTERRUPTION> On the title and commencement. Chair... <INTERRUPTION> On the title and commencement. I Chair... <INTERRUPTION> On the title and commencement. I was On the title and commencement. I was thinking On the title and commencement. I was thinking about On the title and commencement. I was thinking about this On the title and commencement. I was thinking about this commencement, On the title and commencement. I was thinking about this commencement, Mr thinking about this commencement, Mr Chair. thinking about this commencement, Mr Chair. I thinking about this commencement, Mr Chair. I was thinking about this commencement, Mr Chair. I was thinking thinking about this commencement, Mr Chair. I was thinking about thinking about this commencement, Mr Chair. I was thinking about it, Chair. I was thinking about it, given Chair. I was thinking about it, given the Chair. I was thinking about it, given the Government's Chair. I was thinking about it, given the Government's strategy given the Government's strategy around given the Government's strategy around te given the Government's strategy around te ao given the Government's strategy around te ao Maori, given the Government's strategy around te ao Maori, the around te ao Maori, the commencement's around te ao Maori, the commencement's very, around te ao Maori, the commencement's very, very around te ao Maori, the commencement's very, very important. commencement's very, very important. As commencement's very, very important. As we commencement's very, very important. As we all commencement's very, very important. As we all know, commencement's very, very important. As we all know, Mr commencement's very, very important. As we all know, Mr Chair, commencement's very, very important. As we all know, Mr Chair, they commencement's very, very important. As we all know, Mr Chair, they have As we all know, Mr Chair, they have this As we all know, Mr Chair, they have this Treaty As we all know, Mr Chair, they have this Treaty principles As we all know, Mr Chair, they have this Treaty principles idea As we all know, Mr Chair, they have this Treaty principles idea up As we all know, Mr Chair, they have this Treaty principles idea up at this Treaty principles idea up at the this Treaty principles idea up at the moment. this Treaty principles idea up at the moment. I this Treaty principles idea up at the moment. I think this Treaty principles idea up at the moment. I think strategically, the moment. I think strategically, Mr the moment. I think strategically, Mr Chair, the moment. I think strategically, Mr Chair, this the moment. I think strategically, Mr Chair, this type the moment. I think strategically, Mr Chair, this type of the moment. I think strategically, Mr Chair, this type of legislation Mr Chair, this type of legislation should Mr Chair, this type of legislation should go Mr Chair, this type of legislation should go after Mr Chair, this type of legislation should go after the Mr Chair, this type of legislation should go after the Treaty should go after the Treaty legislation should go after the Treaty legislation process should go after the Treaty legislation process is should go after the Treaty legislation process is completed. should go after the Treaty legislation process is completed. I legislation process is completed. I mean, legislation process is completed. I mean, I legislation process is completed. I mean, I think legislation process is completed. I mean, I think that legislation process is completed. I mean, I think that would legislation process is completed. I mean, I think that would make legislation process is completed. I mean, I think that would make sense mean, I think that would make sense to mean, I think that would make sense to all mean, I think that would make sense to all of mean, I think that would make sense to all of us, mean, I think that would make sense to all of us, wouldn't mean, I think that would make sense to all of us, wouldn't it? mean, I think that would make sense to all of us, wouldn't it? Because to all of us, wouldn't it? Because there's to all of us, wouldn't it? Because there's so to all of us, wouldn't it? Because there's so many... to all of us, wouldn't it? Because there's so many... <INTERRUPTION> there's so many... <INTERRUPTION> Well, there's so many... <INTERRUPTION> Well, you there's so many... <INTERRUPTION> Well, you want there's so many... <INTERRUPTION> Well, you want to there's so many... <INTERRUPTION> Well, you want to hear there's so many... <INTERRUPTION> Well, you want to hear from there's so many... <INTERRUPTION> Well, you want to hear from your Well, you want to hear from your Coalition Well, you want to hear from your Coalition partner, Well, you want to hear from your Coalition partner, Mr Well, you want to hear from your Coalition partner, Mr Chair, Well, you want to hear from your Coalition partner, Mr Chair, the Coalition partner, Mr Chair, the Coalition Coalition partner, Mr Chair, the Coalition partner, Coalition partner, Mr Chair, the Coalition partner, Mr Coalition partner, Mr Chair, the Coalition partner, Mr Seymour Coalition partner, Mr Chair, the Coalition partner, Mr Seymour wants Coalition partner, Mr Seymour wants to Coalition partner, Mr Seymour wants to hear Coalition partner, Mr Seymour wants to hear free Coalition partner, Mr Seymour wants to hear free thinking, Coalition partner, Mr Seymour wants to hear free thinking, free Coalition partner, Mr Seymour wants to hear free thinking, free speech Coalition partner, Mr Seymour wants to hear free thinking, free speech - to hear free thinking, free speech - he to hear free thinking, free speech - he wants to hear free thinking, free speech - he wants all to hear free thinking, free speech - he wants all this to hear free thinking, free speech - he wants all this free to hear free thinking, free speech - he wants all this free thinking, he wants all this free thinking, wants he wants all this free thinking, wants everyone he wants all this free thinking, wants everyone making he wants all this free thinking, wants everyone making a he wants all this free thinking, wants everyone making a contribution wants everyone making a contribution through wants everyone making a contribution through his wants everyone making a contribution through his rotten wants everyone making a contribution through his rotten select wants everyone making a contribution through his rotten select committee through his rotten select committee process... through his rotten select committee process... I'm through his rotten select committee process... I'm thinking through his rotten select committee process... I'm thinking - through his rotten select committee process... I'm thinking - well, process... I'm thinking - well, you'll process... I'm thinking - well, you'll have process... I'm thinking - well, you'll have gangs... process... I'm thinking - well, you'll have gangs... This process... I'm thinking - well, you'll have gangs... This is process... I'm thinking - well, you'll have gangs... This is only you'll have gangs... This is only fair. you'll have gangs... This is only fair. I'm you'll have gangs... This is only fair. I'm sure you'll have gangs... This is only fair. I'm sure if you'll have gangs... This is only fair. I'm sure if the you'll have gangs... This is only fair. I'm sure if the Government fair. I'm sure if the Government think fair. I'm sure if the Government think about fair. I'm sure if the Government think about it, fair. I'm sure if the Government think about it, that fair. I'm sure if the Government think about it, that a fair. I'm sure if the Government think about it, that a primary fair. I'm sure if the Government think about it, that a primary day think about it, that a primary day would think about it, that a primary day would be think about it, that a primary day would be where think about it, that a primary day would be where we think about it, that a primary day would be where we could think about it, that a primary day would be where we could do think about it, that a primary day would be where we could do this think about it, that a primary day would be where we could do this all would be where we could do this all again, would be where we could do this all again, Mr would be where we could do this all again, Mr Chair, would be where we could do this all again, Mr Chair, probably would be where we could do this all again, Mr Chair, probably 12 would be where we could do this all again, Mr Chair, probably 12 months again, Mr Chair, probably 12 months from again, Mr Chair, probably 12 months from here. again, Mr Chair, probably 12 months from here. I'm again, Mr Chair, probably 12 months from here. I'm thinking again, Mr Chair, probably 12 months from here. I'm thinking 8 again, Mr Chair, probably 12 months from here. I'm thinking 8 August from here. I'm thinking 8 August 2025, from here. I'm thinking 8 August 2025, where from here. I'm thinking 8 August 2025, where we from here. I'm thinking 8 August 2025, where we should from here. I'm thinking 8 August 2025, where we should resume from here. I'm thinking 8 August 2025, where we should resume this. 2025, where we should resume this. Because 2025, where we should resume this. Because it 2025, where we should resume this. Because it would 2025, where we should resume this. Because it would fall 2025, where we should resume this. Because it would fall in 2025, where we should resume this. Because it would fall in line 2025, where we should resume this. Because it would fall in line with Because it would fall in line with the Because it would fall in line with the strategy Because it would fall in line with the strategy that Because it would fall in line with the strategy that this Because it would fall in line with the strategy that this Government Because it would fall in line with the strategy that this Government is the strategy that this Government is imploring, the strategy that this Government is imploring, which the strategy that this Government is imploring, which is the strategy that this Government is imploring, which is about the strategy that this Government is imploring, which is about attacking imploring, which is about attacking Maoris imploring, which is about attacking Maoris every imploring, which is about attacking Maoris every week, imploring, which is about attacking Maoris every week, Mr imploring, which is about attacking Maoris every week, Mr Chair. imploring, which is about attacking Maoris every week, Mr Chair. A Maoris every week, Mr Chair. A question Maoris every week, Mr Chair. A question for Maoris every week, Mr Chair. A question for the Maoris every week, Mr Chair. A question for the Minister Maoris every week, Mr Chair. A question for the Minister - Maoris every week, Mr Chair. A question for the Minister - given question for the Minister - given the question for the Minister - given the ramifications question for the Minister - given the ramifications of question for the Minister - given the ramifications of the question for the Minister - given the ramifications of the Treaty the ramifications of the Treaty Principles the ramifications of the Treaty Principles Bill the ramifications of the Treaty Principles Bill and the ramifications of the Treaty Principles Bill and this Principles Bill and this legislation, Principles Bill and this legislation, has Principles Bill and this legislation, has the Principles Bill and this legislation, has the Minister Principles Bill and this legislation, has the Minister read legislation, has the Minister read the legislation, has the Minister read the Waitangi legislation, has the Minister read the Waitangi Tribunal legislation, has the Minister read the Waitangi Tribunal report, legislation, has the Minister read the Waitangi Tribunal report, Mr the Waitangi Tribunal report, Mr Chair, the Waitangi Tribunal report, Mr Chair, with the Waitangi Tribunal report, Mr Chair, with records the Waitangi Tribunal report, Mr Chair, with records to the Waitangi Tribunal report, Mr Chair, with records to colonisation Chair, with records to colonisation and Chair, with records to colonisation and the Chair, with records to colonisation and the effect Chair, with records to colonisation and the effect of Chair, with records to colonisation and the effect of gangs? Chair, with records to colonisation and the effect of gangs? Has Chair, with records to colonisation and the effect of gangs? Has the and the effect of gangs? Has the Minister and the effect of gangs? Has the Minister read and the effect of gangs? Has the Minister read the and the effect of gangs? Has the Minister read the recommendations Minister read the recommendations from Minister read the recommendations from the Minister read the recommendations from the tribunal Minister read the recommendations from the tribunal which Minister read the recommendations from the tribunal which talk Minister read the recommendations from the tribunal which talk about from the tribunal which talk about working from the tribunal which talk about working in from the tribunal which talk about working in tandem from the tribunal which talk about working in tandem with from the tribunal which talk about working in tandem with Maori from the tribunal which talk about working in tandem with Maori and from the tribunal which talk about working in tandem with Maori and not working in tandem with Maori and not against working in tandem with Maori and not against Maori? working in tandem with Maori and not against Maori? That's working in tandem with Maori and not against Maori? That's a working in tandem with Maori and not against Maori? That's a really against Maori? That's a really important against Maori? That's a really important area against Maori? That's a really important area when against Maori? That's a really important area when we against Maori? That's a really important area when we consider against Maori? That's a really important area when we consider what important area when we consider what type important area when we consider what type of important area when we consider what type of legislation important area when we consider what type of legislation we're important area when we consider what type of legislation we're trying important area when we consider what type of legislation we're trying to type of legislation we're trying to put type of legislation we're trying to put in type of legislation we're trying to put in place type of legislation we're trying to put in place at type of legislation we're trying to put in place at the type of legislation we're trying to put in place at the moment. type of legislation we're trying to put in place at the moment. I type of legislation we're trying to put in place at the moment. I think put in place at the moment. I think it's put in place at the moment. I think it's only put in place at the moment. I think it's only reasonable put in place at the moment. I think it's only reasonable to put in place at the moment. I think it's only reasonable to ask put in place at the moment. I think it's only reasonable to ask that it's only reasonable to ask that question. it's only reasonable to ask that question. And it's only reasonable to ask that question. And then it's only reasonable to ask that question. And then the it's only reasonable to ask that question. And then the types it's only reasonable to ask that question. And then the types of question. And then the types of consultation question. And then the types of consultation - question. And then the types of consultation - what question. And then the types of consultation - what has question. And then the types of consultation - what has gone question. And then the types of consultation - what has gone down, consultation - what has gone down, Mr consultation - what has gone down, Mr Chair? consultation - what has gone down, Mr Chair? Because consultation - what has gone down, Mr Chair? Because we've consultation - what has gone down, Mr Chair? Because we've had consultation - what has gone down, Mr Chair? Because we've had the consultation - what has gone down, Mr Chair? Because we've had the iwi Mr Chair? Because we've had the iwi leaders, Mr Chair? Because we've had the iwi leaders, Mr Mr Chair? Because we've had the iwi leaders, Mr Chair, Mr Chair? Because we've had the iwi leaders, Mr Chair, in Mr Chair? Because we've had the iwi leaders, Mr Chair, in the Mr Chair? Because we've had the iwi leaders, Mr Chair, in the last Mr Chair? Because we've had the iwi leaders, Mr Chair, in the last week leaders, Mr Chair, in the last week meet leaders, Mr Chair, in the last week meet with leaders, Mr Chair, in the last week meet with the leaders, Mr Chair, in the last week meet with the Government, leaders, Mr Chair, in the last week meet with the Government, and leaders, Mr Chair, in the last week meet with the Government, and some meet with the Government, and some of meet with the Government, and some of those meet with the Government, and some of those iwi... meet with the Government, and some of those iwi... <INTERRUPTION> of those iwi... <INTERRUPTION> That's of those iwi... <INTERRUPTION> That's right, of those iwi... <INTERRUPTION> That's right, some of those iwi... <INTERRUPTION> That's right, some of of those iwi... <INTERRUPTION> That's right, some of their That's right, some of their relations That's right, some of their relations walked That's right, some of their relations walked out. That's right, some of their relations walked out. Some That's right, some of their relations walked out. Some of That's right, some of their relations walked out. Some of them relations walked out. Some of them stayed relations walked out. Some of them stayed in relations walked out. Some of them stayed in to relations walked out. Some of them stayed in to try relations walked out. Some of them stayed in to try and relations walked out. Some of them stayed in to try and do relations walked out. Some of them stayed in to try and do a relations walked out. Some of them stayed in to try and do a few relations walked out. Some of them stayed in to try and do a few deals. stayed in to try and do a few deals. Went stayed in to try and do a few deals. Went both stayed in to try and do a few deals. Went both ways... stayed in to try and do a few deals. Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some of Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some of them Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some of them stayed Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some of them stayed in Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some of them stayed in and Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some of them stayed in and did Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some of them stayed in and did a Went both ways... <INTERRUPTION> Some of them stayed in and did a few Some of them stayed in and did a few deals, Some of them stayed in and did a few deals, then Some of them stayed in and did a few deals, then they Some of them stayed in and did a few deals, then they came Some of them stayed in and did a few deals, then they came outside Some of them stayed in and did a few deals, then they came outside and deals, then they came outside and criticised deals, then they came outside and criticised the deals, then they came outside and criticised the Government. deals, then they came outside and criticised the Government. Maori deals, then they came outside and criticised the Government. Maori are criticised the Government. Maori are playing criticised the Government. Maori are playing it criticised the Government. Maori are playing it both criticised the Government. Maori are playing it both ways. criticised the Government. Maori are playing it both ways. What criticised the Government. Maori are playing it both ways. What type criticised the Government. Maori are playing it both ways. What type of playing it both ways. What type of consultation playing it both ways. What type of consultation has playing it both ways. What type of consultation has the playing it both ways. What type of consultation has the Minister playing it both ways. What type of consultation has the Minister - playing it both ways. What type of consultation has the Minister - and consultation has the Minister - and I consultation has the Minister - and I respect consultation has the Minister - and I respect we've consultation has the Minister - and I respect we've got consultation has the Minister - and I respect we've got a consultation has the Minister - and I respect we've got a new consultation has the Minister - and I respect we've got a new Minister I respect we've got a new Minister in I respect we've got a new Minister in the I respect we've got a new Minister in the seat I respect we've got a new Minister in the seat today I respect we've got a new Minister in the seat today - I respect we've got a new Minister in the seat today - has I respect we've got a new Minister in the seat today - has the I respect we've got a new Minister in the seat today - has the Minister in the seat today - has the Minister seen, in the seat today - has the Minister seen, with in the seat today - has the Minister seen, with regards in the seat today - has the Minister seen, with regards to in the seat today - has the Minister seen, with regards to this? seen, with regards to this? Particularly seen, with regards to this? Particularly in seen, with regards to this? Particularly in terms seen, with regards to this? Particularly in terms of seen, with regards to this? Particularly in terms of the Particularly in terms of the commencement? Particularly in terms of the commencement? I Particularly in terms of the commencement? I come Particularly in terms of the commencement? I come back Particularly in terms of the commencement? I come back to Particularly in terms of the commencement? I come back to the commencement? I come back to the commencement commencement? I come back to the commencement because commencement? I come back to the commencement because of commencement? I come back to the commencement because of the commencement because of the strategies commencement because of the strategies from commencement because of the strategies from this commencement because of the strategies from this Government. strategies from this Government. Strategies strategies from this Government. Strategies where strategies from this Government. Strategies where Maori, strategies from this Government. Strategies where Maori, sadly strategies from this Government. Strategies where Maori, sadly - strategies from this Government. Strategies where Maori, sadly - and Strategies where Maori, sadly - and I Strategies where Maori, sadly - and I had Strategies where Maori, sadly - and I had another Strategies where Maori, sadly - and I had another korero Strategies where Maori, sadly - and I had another korero tonight, I had another korero tonight, apparently, I had another korero tonight, apparently, Mr I had another korero tonight, apparently, Mr Chair, I had another korero tonight, apparently, Mr Chair, there's I had another korero tonight, apparently, Mr Chair, there's an apparently, Mr Chair, there's an attack apparently, Mr Chair, there's an attack now attack now on attack now on teour attack now on teour -- attack now on teour -- Te attack now on teour -- Te Ao attack now on teour -- Te Ao Whati... attack now on teour -- Te Ao Whati... I attack now on teour -- Te Ao Whati... I will attack now on teour -- Te Ao Whati... I will come attack now on teour -- Te Ao Whati... I will come back attack now on teour -- Te Ao Whati... I will come back to attack now on teour -- Te Ao Whati... I will come back to the Whati... I will come back to the bill. Whati... I will come back to the bill. Yes, Whati... I will come back to the bill. Yes, you Whati... I will come back to the bill. Yes, you will. Whati... I will come back to the bill. Yes, you will. Given Whati... I will come back to the bill. Yes, you will. Given the bill. Yes, you will. Given the Treaty bill. Yes, you will. Given the Treaty Principles bill. Yes, you will. Given the Treaty Principles Bill, bill. Yes, you will. Given the Treaty Principles Bill, I'm bill. Yes, you will. Given the Treaty Principles Bill, I'm saying Treaty Principles Bill, I'm saying today Treaty Principles Bill, I'm saying today - Treaty Principles Bill, I'm saying today - will Treaty Principles Bill, I'm saying today - will the Treaty Principles Bill, I'm saying today - will the Minister Treaty Principles Bill, I'm saying today - will the Minister reconsider today - will the Minister reconsider looking today - will the Minister reconsider looking at today - will the Minister reconsider looking at this today - will the Minister reconsider looking at this in today - will the Minister reconsider looking at this in 12 today - will the Minister reconsider looking at this in 12 months? looking at this in 12 months? Because looking at this in 12 months? Because we'll looking at this in 12 months? Because we'll help looking at this in 12 months? Because we'll help him looking at this in 12 months? Because we'll help him in looking at this in 12 months? Because we'll help him in that looking at this in 12 months? Because we'll help him in that area. Because we'll help him in that area. We'll Because we'll help him in that area. We'll be Because we'll help him in that area. We'll be quite Because we'll help him in that area. We'll be quite open Because we'll help him in that area. We'll be quite open in Because we'll help him in that area. We'll be quite open in supporting We'll be quite open in supporting the We'll be quite open in supporting the Government. We'll be quite open in supporting the Government. And We'll be quite open in supporting the Government. And delaying We'll be quite open in supporting the Government. And delaying this, the Government. And delaying this, because the Government. And delaying this, because of the Government. And delaying this, because of the the Government. And delaying this, because of the ramifications? the Government. And delaying this, because of the ramifications? I'm because of the ramifications? I'm worried because of the ramifications? I'm worried about because of the ramifications? I'm worried about the because of the ramifications? I'm worried about the Government, worried about the Government, because worried about the Government, because people worried about the Government, because people are worried about the Government, because people are getting worried about the Government, because people are getting angry worried about the Government, because people are getting angry out because people are getting angry out there, because people are getting angry out there, Mr because people are getting angry out there, Mr Chair. because people are getting angry out there, Mr Chair. You because people are getting angry out there, Mr Chair. You saw because people are getting angry out there, Mr Chair. You saw some because people are getting angry out there, Mr Chair. You saw some of there, Mr Chair. You saw some of that there, Mr Chair. You saw some of that behaviour there, Mr Chair. You saw some of that behaviour up there, Mr Chair. You saw some of that behaviour up north there, Mr Chair. You saw some of that behaviour up north yesterday that behaviour up north yesterday from that behaviour up north yesterday from Mennel's that behaviour up north yesterday from Mennel's relations that behaviour up north yesterday from Mennel's relations up that behaviour up north yesterday from Mennel's relations up there that behaviour up north yesterday from Mennel's relations up there - from Mennel's relations up there - very from Mennel's relations up there - very upset... from Mennel's relations up there - very upset... <INTERRUPTION> very upset... <INTERRUPTION> Mr very upset... <INTERRUPTION> Mr Jackson, very upset... <INTERRUPTION> Mr Jackson, let's very upset... <INTERRUPTION> Mr Jackson, let's use very upset... <INTERRUPTION> Mr Jackson, let's use some very upset... <INTERRUPTION> Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall we? Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall we? We're Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall we? We're not Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall we? We're not in Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall we? We're not in a Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall we? We're not in a bar Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall we? We're not in a bar now. Mr Jackson, let's use some surnames, shall we? We're not in a bar now. I shall we? We're not in a bar now. I think shall we? We're not in a bar now. I think I shall we? We're not in a bar now. I think I did. shall we? We're not in a bar now. I think I did. I shall we? We're not in a bar now. I think I did. I used shall we? We're not in a bar now. I think I did. I used the shall we? We're not in a bar now. I think I did. I used the full shall we? We're not in a bar now. I think I did. I used the full name. think I did. I used the full name. But think I did. I used the full name. But thank think I did. I used the full name. But thank you think I did. I used the full name. But thank you for think I did. I used the full name. But thank you for that. think I did. I used the full name. But thank you for that. I'll think I did. I used the full name. But thank you for that. I'll just But thank you for that. I'll just continue. But thank you for that. I'll just continue. In But thank you for that. I'll just continue. In terms But thank you for that. I'll just continue. In terms of But thank you for that. I'll just continue. In terms of the continue. In terms of the commencement continue. In terms of the commencement - continue. In terms of the commencement - it's continue. In terms of the commencement - it's really, continue. In terms of the commencement - it's really, really commencement - it's really, really important commencement - it's really, really important because commencement - it's really, really important because of commencement - it's really, really important because of the important because of the consequences important because of the consequences in important because of the consequences in terms important because of the consequences in terms of important because of the consequences in terms of hour important because of the consequences in terms of hour -- consequences in terms of hour -- terms consequences in terms of hour -- terms of consequences in terms of hour -- terms of Maori consequences in terms of hour -- terms of Maori and consequences in terms of hour -- terms of Maori and tribunal consequences in terms of hour -- terms of Maori and tribunal reports terms of Maori and tribunal reports have terms of Maori and tribunal reports have to terms of Maori and tribunal reports have to be terms of Maori and tribunal reports have to be considered. terms of Maori and tribunal reports have to be considered. All terms of Maori and tribunal reports have to be considered. All through have to be considered. All through this have to be considered. All through this debate, have to be considered. All through this debate, Mr have to be considered. All through this debate, Mr Chair, have to be considered. All through this debate, Mr Chair, you have to be considered. All through this debate, Mr Chair, you would this debate, Mr Chair, you would have this debate, Mr Chair, you would have heard this debate, Mr Chair, you would have heard the this debate, Mr Chair, you would have heard the concerns this debate, Mr Chair, you would have heard the concerns from this debate, Mr Chair, you would have heard the concerns from te this debate, Mr Chair, you would have heard the concerns from te ao have heard the concerns from te ao Maori, have heard the concerns from te ao Maori, from have heard the concerns from te ao Maori, from Maori have heard the concerns from te ao Maori, from Maori members, have heard the concerns from te ao Maori, from Maori members, from Maori, from Maori members, from Pakeha Maori, from Maori members, from Pakeha members Maori, from Maori members, from Pakeha members on Maori, from Maori members, from Pakeha members on this Maori, from Maori members, from Pakeha members on this side Maori, from Maori members, from Pakeha members on this side of Maori, from Maori members, from Pakeha members on this side of the Pakeha members on this side of the House, Pakeha members on this side of the House, Asian Pakeha members on this side of the House, Asian members... Pakeha members on this side of the House, Asian members... This Pakeha members on this side of the House, Asian members... This is Pakeha members on this side of the House, Asian members... This is an House, Asian members... This is an Opposition House, Asian members... This is an Opposition focused House, Asian members... This is an Opposition focused on House, Asian members... This is an Opposition focused on the House, Asian members... This is an Opposition focused on the rights House, Asian members... This is an Opposition focused on the rights of Opposition focused on the rights of people. Opposition focused on the rights of people. No Opposition focused on the rights of people. No big Opposition focused on the rights of people. No big love Opposition focused on the rights of people. No big love affair's Opposition focused on the rights of people. No big love affair's going people. No big love affair's going down people. No big love affair's going down with people. No big love affair's going down with gangs. people. No big love affair's going down with gangs. People people. No big love affair's going down with gangs. People are people. No big love affair's going down with gangs. People are talking down with gangs. People are talking about... about... <BELL about... <BELL RUNG> <BELL RUNG> Huhana <BELL RUNG> Huhana Lyndon. <BELL RUNG> Huhana Lyndon. Thank <BELL RUNG> Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, <BELL RUNG> Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr <BELL RUNG> Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr Chair. Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'd Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'd like Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'd like to Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'd like to support Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'd like to support the Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'd like to support the members Huhana Lyndon. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'd like to support the members in I'd like to support the members in the I'd like to support the members in the Opposition, I'd like to support the members in the Opposition, who I'd like to support the members in the Opposition, who have I'd like to support the members in the Opposition, who have pointed I'd like to support the members in the Opposition, who have pointed out the Opposition, who have pointed out we the Opposition, who have pointed out we don't the Opposition, who have pointed out we don't have the Opposition, who have pointed out we don't have the the Opposition, who have pointed out we don't have the capacity, the Opposition, who have pointed out we don't have the capacity, nor the Opposition, who have pointed out we don't have the capacity, nor the we don't have the capacity, nor the capability we don't have the capacity, nor the capability now, we don't have the capacity, nor the capability now, for we don't have the capacity, nor the capability now, for commencement. capability now, for commencement. And capability now, for commencement. And I capability now, for commencement. And I worry capability now, for commencement. And I worry about capability now, for commencement. And I worry about the capability now, for commencement. And I worry about the timeframe capability now, for commencement. And I worry about the timeframe of And I worry about the timeframe of waiting And I worry about the timeframe of waiting for And I worry about the timeframe of waiting for Royal And I worry about the timeframe of waiting for Royal assent And I worry about the timeframe of waiting for Royal assent - And I worry about the timeframe of waiting for Royal assent - that's waiting for Royal assent - that's just waiting for Royal assent - that's just around waiting for Royal assent - that's just around the waiting for Royal assent - that's just around the corner. waiting for Royal assent - that's just around the corner. But waiting for Royal assent - that's just around the corner. But we've just around the corner. But we've heard just around the corner. But we've heard from just around the corner. But we've heard from the just around the corner. But we've heard from the Hon just around the corner. But we've heard from the Hon Ginny just around the corner. But we've heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen just around the corner. But we've heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen - heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen - 500 heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen - 500 police heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen - 500 police short. heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen - 500 police short. And heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen - 500 police short. And yet heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen - 500 police short. And yet we're 500 police short. And yet we're going 500 police short. And yet we're going to 500 police short. And yet we're going to lump 500 police short. And yet we're going to lump this 500 police short. And yet we're going to lump this on 500 police short. And yet we're going to lump this on top 500 police short. And yet we're going to lump this on top of 500 police short. And yet we're going to lump this on top of them 500 police short. And yet we're going to lump this on top of them in going to lump this on top of them in a going to lump this on top of them in a short going to lump this on top of them in a short period going to lump this on top of them in a short period of going to lump this on top of them in a short period of time. going to lump this on top of them in a short period of time. If going to lump this on top of them in a short period of time. If we going to lump this on top of them in a short period of time. If we were a short period of time. If we were realistic a short period of time. If we were realistic around a short period of time. If we were realistic around capacity a short period of time. If we were realistic around capacity and realistic around capacity and capability, realistic around capacity and capability, have realistic around capacity and capability, have we realistic around capacity and capability, have we discussed realistic around capacity and capability, have we discussed with capability, have we discussed with the capability, have we discussed with the judiciary? capability, have we discussed with the judiciary? Are capability, have we discussed with the judiciary? Are the capability, have we discussed with the judiciary? Are the judiciary the judiciary? Are the judiciary ready the judiciary? Are the judiciary ready to the judiciary? Are the judiciary ready to be the judiciary? Are the judiciary ready to be flooded the judiciary? Are the judiciary ready to be flooded by the judiciary? Are the judiciary ready to be flooded by more the judiciary? Are the judiciary ready to be flooded by more gang ready to be flooded by more gang members ready to be flooded by more gang members in ready to be flooded by more gang members in court? ready to be flooded by more gang members in court? Are ready to be flooded by more gang members in court? Are the ready to be flooded by more gang members in court? Are the prisons members in court? Are the prisons ready members in court? Are the prisons ready to members in court? Are the prisons ready to take members in court? Are the prisons ready to take more members in court? Are the prisons ready to take more Maori? members in court? Are the prisons ready to take more Maori? Yes, members in court? Are the prisons ready to take more Maori? Yes, they ready to take more Maori? Yes, they are, ready to take more Maori? Yes, they are, because ready to take more Maori? Yes, they are, because they're ready to take more Maori? Yes, they are, because they're building ready to take more Maori? Yes, they are, because they're building the are, because they're building the megaprison are, because they're building the megaprison at are, because they're building the megaprison at Waikeria are, because they're building the megaprison at Waikeria - are, because they're building the megaprison at Waikeria - not are, because they're building the megaprison at Waikeria - not houses megaprison at Waikeria - not houses for megaprison at Waikeria - not houses for our megaprison at Waikeria - not houses for our people. megaprison at Waikeria - not houses for our people. Kainga megaprison at Waikeria - not houses for our people. Kainga Ora's megaprison at Waikeria - not houses for our people. Kainga Ora's been for our people. Kainga Ora's been shut for our people. Kainga Ora's been shut down. for our people. Kainga Ora's been shut down. That's for our people. Kainga Ora's been shut down. That's a for our people. Kainga Ora's been shut down. That's a big for our people. Kainga Ora's been shut down. That's a big help. for our people. Kainga Ora's been shut down. That's a big help. That's shut down. That's a big help. That's the shut down. That's a big help. That's the thing. shut down. That's a big help. That's the thing. Are shut down. That's a big help. That's the thing. Are we shut down. That's a big help. That's the thing. Are we preparing shut down. That's a big help. That's the thing. Are we preparing to shut down. That's a big help. That's the thing. Are we preparing to house the thing. Are we preparing to house Maori the thing. Are we preparing to house Maori in the thing. Are we preparing to house Maori in prison? the thing. Are we preparing to house Maori in prison? Because the thing. Are we preparing to house Maori in prison? Because this the thing. Are we preparing to house Maori in prison? Because this bill Maori in prison? Because this bill here Maori in prison? Because this bill here is Maori in prison? Because this bill here is hazardous Maori in prison? Because this bill here is hazardous for Maori in prison? Because this bill here is hazardous for Tiwi Maori in prison? Because this bill here is hazardous for Tiwi Maori. here is hazardous for Tiwi Maori. And here is hazardous for Tiwi Maori. And looking here is hazardous for Tiwi Maori. And looking at here is hazardous for Tiwi Maori. And looking at the here is hazardous for Tiwi Maori. And looking at the timeframes, here is hazardous for Tiwi Maori. And looking at the timeframes, we And looking at the timeframes, we are And looking at the timeframes, we are not And looking at the timeframes, we are not ready. And looking at the timeframes, we are not ready. The And looking at the timeframes, we are not ready. The infrastructure are not ready. The infrastructure and are not ready. The infrastructure and services are not ready. The infrastructure and services are are not ready. The infrastructure and services are not are not ready. The infrastructure and services are not ready. are not ready. The infrastructure and services are not ready. Let and services are not ready. Let alone and services are not ready. Let alone rehabilitation. and services are not ready. Let alone rehabilitation. Let and services are not ready. Let alone rehabilitation. Let alone alone rehabilitation. Let alone engaging alone rehabilitation. Let alone engaging with alone rehabilitation. Let alone engaging with the alone rehabilitation. Let alone engaging with the community alone rehabilitation. Let alone engaging with the community support engaging with the community support services engaging with the community support services that engaging with the community support services that matua engaging with the community support services that matua Willie engaging with the community support services that matua Willie has services that matua Willie has explained services that matua Willie has explained and services that matua Willie has explained and provided services that matua Willie has explained and provided examples services that matua Willie has explained and provided examples time explained and provided examples time and explained and provided examples time and time explained and provided examples time and time again explained and provided examples time and time again on explained and provided examples time and time again on behalf explained and provided examples time and time again on behalf of explained and provided examples time and time again on behalf of Nga and time again on behalf of Nga Whare and time again on behalf of Nga Whare Watoa and time again on behalf of Nga Whare Watoa - and time again on behalf of Nga Whare Watoa - could and time again on behalf of Nga Whare Watoa - could there and time again on behalf of Nga Whare Watoa - could there be and time again on behalf of Nga Whare Watoa - could there be part and time again on behalf of Nga Whare Watoa - could there be part of Whare Watoa - could there be part of a Whare Watoa - could there be part of a wider Whare Watoa - could there be part of a wider solution Whare Watoa - could there be part of a wider solution rather Whare Watoa - could there be part of a wider solution rather than Whare Watoa - could there be part of a wider solution rather than just a wider solution rather than just locking a wider solution rather than just locking up a wider solution rather than just locking up our a wider solution rather than just locking up our people? a wider solution rather than just locking up our people? The a wider solution rather than just locking up our people? The judiciary locking up our people? The judiciary needs locking up our people? The judiciary needs to locking up our people? The judiciary needs to be locking up our people? The judiciary needs to be ready. locking up our people? The judiciary needs to be ready. Prisons locking up our people? The judiciary needs to be ready. Prisons - locking up our people? The judiciary needs to be ready. Prisons - are needs to be ready. Prisons - are they needs to be ready. Prisons - are they ready? needs to be ready. Prisons - are they ready? The needs to be ready. Prisons - are they ready? The cops needs to be ready. Prisons - are they ready? The cops are needs to be ready. Prisons - are they ready? The cops are not needs to be ready. Prisons - are they ready? The cops are not ready. they ready? The cops are not ready. And they ready? The cops are not ready. And when they ready? The cops are not ready. And when we they ready? The cops are not ready. And when we have they ready? The cops are not ready. And when we have a they ready? The cops are not ready. And when we have a place they ready? The cops are not ready. And when we have a place like And when we have a place like Opotiki And when we have a place like Opotiki - And when we have a place like Opotiki - are And when we have a place like Opotiki - are they And when we have a place like Opotiki - are they ready? And when we have a place like Opotiki - are they ready? Is And when we have a place like Opotiki - are they ready? Is Kaihore Opotiki - are they ready? Is Kaihore ready? Opotiki - are they ready? Is Kaihore ready? That's Opotiki - are they ready? Is Kaihore ready? That's the Opotiki - are they ready? Is Kaihore ready? That's the reality Opotiki - are they ready? Is Kaihore ready? That's the reality on Opotiki - are they ready? Is Kaihore ready? That's the reality on the ready? That's the reality on the ground. ready? That's the reality on the ground. When ready? That's the reality on the ground. When you ready? That's the reality on the ground. When you have ready? That's the reality on the ground. When you have the ready? That's the reality on the ground. When you have the Police ground. When you have the Police Commission ground. When you have the Police Commission Er ground. When you have the Police Commission Er and ground. When you have the Police Commission Er and the ground. When you have the Police Commission Er and the associations Commission Er and the associations coming Commission Er and the associations coming out Commission Er and the associations coming out saying, Commission Er and the associations coming out saying, "Whoa! Commission Er and the associations coming out saying, "Whoa! We're Commission Er and the associations coming out saying, "Whoa! We're not coming out saying, "Whoa! We're not ready," coming out saying, "Whoa! We're not ready," we coming out saying, "Whoa! We're not ready," we need coming out saying, "Whoa! We're not ready," we need more coming out saying, "Whoa! We're not ready," we need more facilitators ready," we need more facilitators within ready," we need more facilitators within the ready," we need more facilitators within the police ready," we need more facilitators within the police who ready," we need more facilitators within the police who are within the police who are well-trained within the police who are well-trained and within the police who are well-trained and have within the police who are well-trained and have the within the police who are well-trained and have the skills within the police who are well-trained and have the skills to well-trained and have the skills to be well-trained and have the skills to be able well-trained and have the skills to be able to well-trained and have the skills to be able to support well-trained and have the skills to be able to support this well-trained and have the skills to be able to support this bill. well-trained and have the skills to be able to support this bill. But be able to support this bill. But it's be able to support this bill. But it's not be able to support this bill. But it's not going be able to support this bill. But it's not going to be able to support this bill. But it's not going to be be able to support this bill. But it's not going to be ready be able to support this bill. But it's not going to be ready in be able to support this bill. But it's not going to be ready in time it's not going to be ready in time for it's not going to be ready in time for Royal it's not going to be ready in time for Royal assent. it's not going to be ready in time for Royal assent. That's it's not going to be ready in time for Royal assent. That's just it's not going to be ready in time for Royal assent. That's just around for Royal assent. That's just around the for Royal assent. That's just around the corner. for Royal assent. That's just around the corner. We for Royal assent. That's just around the corner. We need for Royal assent. That's just around the corner. We need to for Royal assent. That's just around the corner. We need to be for Royal assent. That's just around the corner. We need to be realistic the corner. We need to be realistic around the corner. We need to be realistic around the the corner. We need to be realistic around the timeframes the corner. We need to be realistic around the timeframes for around the timeframes for implementing around the timeframes for implementing this. around the timeframes for implementing this. Because around the timeframes for implementing this. Because there implementing this. Because there will implementing this. Because there will be implementing this. Because there will be a implementing this. Because there will be a flood implementing this. Because there will be a flood - implementing this. Because there will be a flood - there implementing this. Because there will be a flood - there will implementing this. Because there will be a flood - there will be implementing this. Because there will be a flood - there will be a will be a flood - there will be a flood will be a flood - there will be a flood of will be a flood - there will be a flood of notifications will be a flood - there will be a flood of notifications and, will be a flood - there will be a flood of notifications and, next flood of notifications and, next minute, flood of notifications and, next minute, our flood of notifications and, next minute, our whanau flood of notifications and, next minute, our whanau are flood of notifications and, next minute, our whanau are gonna flood of notifications and, next minute, our whanau are gonna be minute, our whanau are gonna be hauled minute, our whanau are gonna be hauled before minute, our whanau are gonna be hauled before the minute, our whanau are gonna be hauled before the courts minute, our whanau are gonna be hauled before the courts and minute, our whanau are gonna be hauled before the courts and will minute, our whanau are gonna be hauled before the courts and will we hauled before the courts and will we even hauled before the courts and will we even have hauled before the courts and will we even have enough hauled before the courts and will we even have enough for hauled before the courts and will we even have enough for security hauled before the courts and will we even have enough for security to even have enough for security to start even have enough for security to start driving even have enough for security to start driving our even have enough for security to start driving our people even have enough for security to start driving our people around even have enough for security to start driving our people around from start driving our people around from correctional start driving our people around from correctional facilities? start driving our people around from correctional facilities? This start driving our people around from correctional facilities? This is start driving our people around from correctional facilities? This is the correctional facilities? This is the ground correctional facilities? This is the ground reality ground reality for ground reality for us ground reality for us in ground reality for us in Taitukero. ground reality for us in Taitukero. What's ground reality for us in Taitukero. What's the ground reality for us in Taitukero. What's the rush? ground reality for us in Taitukero. What's the rush? If ground reality for us in Taitukero. What's the rush? If we ground reality for us in Taitukero. What's the rush? If we want ground reality for us in Taitukero. What's the rush? If we want this ground reality for us in Taitukero. What's the rush? If we want this to What's the rush? If we want this to be What's the rush? If we want this to be an What's the rush? If we want this to be an effective What's the rush? If we want this to be an effective law What's the rush? If we want this to be an effective law and What's the rush? If we want this to be an effective law and we What's the rush? If we want this to be an effective law and we want What's the rush? If we want this to be an effective law and we want it be an effective law and we want it to be an effective law and we want it to be be an effective law and we want it to be something be an effective law and we want it to be something that be an effective law and we want it to be something that actually be an effective law and we want it to be something that actually the to be something that actually the police to be something that actually the police and to be something that actually the police and the to be something that actually the police and the full to be something that actually the police and the full system to be something that actually the police and the full system is to be something that actually the police and the full system is ready police and the full system is ready for, police and the full system is ready for, why police and the full system is ready for, why are police and the full system is ready for, why are we police and the full system is ready for, why are we rushing police and the full system is ready for, why are we rushing to police and the full system is ready for, why are we rushing to Royal for, why are we rushing to Royal assent for, why are we rushing to Royal assent instead for, why are we rushing to Royal assent instead of for, why are we rushing to Royal assent instead of giving for, why are we rushing to Royal assent instead of giving it for, why are we rushing to Royal assent instead of giving it a for, why are we rushing to Royal assent instead of giving it a year, assent instead of giving it a year, instead assent instead of giving it a year, instead of assent instead of giving it a year, instead of really assent instead of giving it a year, instead of really scoping assent instead of giving it a year, instead of really scoping it assent instead of giving it a year, instead of really scoping it out? instead of really scoping it out? Has instead of really scoping it out? Has anyone instead of really scoping it out? Has anyone priced instead of really scoping it out? Has anyone priced this instead of really scoping it out? Has anyone priced this up? instead of really scoping it out? Has anyone priced this up? Has Has anyone priced this up? Has anyone Has anyone priced this up? Has anyone in Has anyone priced this up? Has anyone in the Has anyone priced this up? Has anyone in the Government Has anyone priced this up? Has anyone in the Government priced Has anyone priced this up? Has anyone in the Government priced up anyone in the Government priced up the anyone in the Government priced up the implications anyone in the Government priced up the implications of anyone in the Government priced up the implications of implementing the implications of implementing such the implications of implementing such a the implications of implementing such a law? the implications of implementing such a law? What the implications of implementing such a law? What is the implications of implementing such a law? What is the the implications of implementing such a law? What is the price the implications of implementing such a law? What is the price to such a law? What is the price to society? such a law? What is the price to society? What such a law? What is the price to society? What is such a law? What is the price to society? What is the such a law? What is the price to society? What is the price such a law? What is the price to society? What is the price to society? What is the price to police? society? What is the price to police? What society? What is the price to police? What is society? What is the price to police? What is the society? What is the price to police? What is the price society? What is the price to police? What is the price to society? What is the price to police? What is the price to prisons police? What is the price to prisons and police? What is the price to prisons and to police? What is the price to prisons and to the police? What is the price to prisons and to the judiciary police? What is the price to prisons and to the judiciary to police? What is the price to prisons and to the judiciary to implement and to the judiciary to implement this and to the judiciary to implement this when and to the judiciary to implement this when we and to the judiciary to implement this when we are and to the judiciary to implement this when we are ignoring and to the judiciary to implement this when we are ignoring things this when we are ignoring things such this when we are ignoring things such as this when we are ignoring things such as the this when we are ignoring things such as the Matariki this when we are ignoring things such as the Matariki court this when we are ignoring things such as the Matariki court in this when we are ignoring things such as the Matariki court in terms such as the Matariki court in terms of such as the Matariki court in terms of the such as the Matariki court in terms of the totamariki such as the Matariki court in terms of the totamariki court such as the Matariki court in terms of the totamariki court that such as the Matariki court in terms of the totamariki court that is such as the Matariki court in terms of the totamariki court that is very of the totamariki court that is very successful, of the totamariki court that is very successful, gang of the totamariki court that is very successful, gang relation of the totamariki court that is very successful, gang relation officers successful, gang relation officers in successful, gang relation officers in takaranga? successful, gang relation officers in takaranga? If successful, gang relation officers in takaranga? If we're successful, gang relation officers in takaranga? If we're going successful, gang relation officers in takaranga? If we're going to in takaranga? If we're going to start in takaranga? If we're going to start banning in takaranga? If we're going to start banning patches in takaranga? If we're going to start banning patches in in takaranga? If we're going to start banning patches in public... start banning patches in public... These start banning patches in public... These are start banning patches in public... These are things start banning patches in public... These are things that start banning patches in public... These are things that need start banning patches in public... These are things that need to start banning patches in public... These are things that need to be These are things that need to be done These are things that need to be done well. These are things that need to be done well. Are These are things that need to be done well. Are we These are things that need to be done well. Are we really These are things that need to be done well. Are we really ready, These are things that need to be done well. Are we really ready, New done well. Are we really ready, New Zealand? done well. Are we really ready, New Zealand? Are done well. Are we really ready, New Zealand? Are we done well. Are we really ready, New Zealand? Are we really done well. Are we really ready, New Zealand? Are we really ready done well. Are we really ready, New Zealand? Are we really ready to Zealand? Are we really ready to start Zealand? Are we really ready to start isolating Zealand? Are we really ready to start isolating a Zealand? Are we really ready to start isolating a small Zealand? Are we really ready to start isolating a small number Zealand? Are we really ready to start isolating a small number of start isolating a small number of whanau start isolating a small number of whanau in start isolating a small number of whanau in our start isolating a small number of whanau in our community? start isolating a small number of whanau in our community? - start isolating a small number of whanau in our community? - and start isolating a small number of whanau in our community? - and they whanau in our community? - and they are whanau in our community? - and they are our whanau in our community? - and they are our whanau whanau in our community? - and they are our whanau - whanau in our community? - and they are our whanau - locking whanau in our community? - and they are our whanau - locking up whanau in our community? - and they are our whanau - locking up more are our whanau - locking up more Maori, are our whanau - locking up more Maori, because are our whanau - locking up more Maori, because they are our whanau - locking up more Maori, because they affiliate are our whanau - locking up more Maori, because they affiliate with Maori, because they affiliate with gangs Maori, because they affiliate with gangs because Maori, because they affiliate with gangs because they Maori, because they affiliate with gangs because they come Maori, because they affiliate with gangs because they come from Maori, because they affiliate with gangs because they come from the gangs because they come from the product gangs because they come from the product of gangs because they come from the product of colonisation? gangs because they come from the product of colonisation? We gangs because they come from the product of colonisation? We just product of colonisation? We just stood, product of colonisation? We just stood, two product of colonisation? We just stood, two weeks product of colonisation? We just stood, two weeks ago, product of colonisation? We just stood, two weeks ago, to product of colonisation? We just stood, two weeks ago, to give product of colonisation? We just stood, two weeks ago, to give a stood, two weeks ago, to give a beautiful stood, two weeks ago, to give a beautiful mihi stood, two weeks ago, to give a beautiful mihi and stood, two weeks ago, to give a beautiful mihi and acknowledging stood, two weeks ago, to give a beautiful mihi and acknowledging the beautiful mihi and acknowledging the harm. beautiful mihi and acknowledging the harm. 90% beautiful mihi and acknowledging the harm. 90% of beautiful mihi and acknowledging the harm. 90% of gang beautiful mihi and acknowledging the harm. 90% of gang members beautiful mihi and acknowledging the harm. 90% of gang members come beautiful mihi and acknowledging the harm. 90% of gang members come from harm. 90% of gang members come from the harm. 90% of gang members come from the state harm. 90% of gang members come from the state harm harm. 90% of gang members come from the state harm that's harm. 90% of gang members come from the state harm that's been harm. 90% of gang members come from the state harm that's been inflicted the state harm that's been inflicted upon the state harm that's been inflicted upon them. the state harm that's been inflicted upon them. They the state harm that's been inflicted upon them. They don't the state harm that's been inflicted upon them. They don't even the state harm that's been inflicted upon them. They don't even know the state harm that's been inflicted upon them. They don't even know how upon them. They don't even know how to upon them. They don't even know how to read, upon them. They don't even know how to read, some upon them. They don't even know how to read, some of upon them. They don't even know how to read, some of our upon them. They don't even know how to read, some of our whanau. upon them. They don't even know how to read, some of our whanau. They to read, some of our whanau. They are to read, some of our whanau. They are neurodiverse to read, some of our whanau. They are neurodiverse and to read, some of our whanau. They are neurodiverse and they to read, some of our whanau. They are neurodiverse and they are are neurodiverse and they are already are neurodiverse and they are already in are neurodiverse and they are already in prison. are neurodiverse and they are already in prison. Can are neurodiverse and they are already in prison. Can we are neurodiverse and they are already in prison. Can we focus are neurodiverse and they are already in prison. Can we focus on already in prison. Can we focus on the already in prison. Can we focus on the rehab already in prison. Can we focus on the rehab services already in prison. Can we focus on the rehab services that already in prison. Can we focus on the rehab services that are already in prison. Can we focus on the rehab services that are required the rehab services that are required in the rehab services that are required in prison, the rehab services that are required in prison, the the rehab services that are required in prison, the community the rehab services that are required in prison, the community services in prison, the community services that in prison, the community services that Nga in prison, the community services that Nga Whaterera in prison, the community services that Nga Whaterera and in prison, the community services that Nga Whaterera and others that Nga Whaterera and others perform that Nga Whaterera and others perform in that Nga Whaterera and others perform in our that Nga Whaterera and others perform in our community? that Nga Whaterera and others perform in our community? We're perform in our community? We're going perform in our community? We're going to perform in our community? We're going to need perform in our community? We're going to need a perform in our community? We're going to need a backstop perform in our community? We're going to need a backstop in going to need a backstop in implementing going to need a backstop in implementing this going to need a backstop in implementing this legislation, implementing this legislation, because implementing this legislation, because ultimately implementing this legislation, because ultimately the implementing this legislation, because ultimately the system implementing this legislation, because ultimately the system is implementing this legislation, because ultimately the system is not because ultimately the system is not ready. because ultimately the system is not ready. So because ultimately the system is not ready. So for because ultimately the system is not ready. So for me, because ultimately the system is not ready. So for me, in because ultimately the system is not ready. So for me, in terms because ultimately the system is not ready. So for me, in terms of because ultimately the system is not ready. So for me, in terms of where ready. So for me, in terms of where we're ready. So for me, in terms of where we're at, ready. So for me, in terms of where we're at, Royal ready. So for me, in terms of where we're at, Royal assent ready. So for me, in terms of where we're at, Royal assent is ready. So for me, in terms of where we're at, Royal assent is too ready. So for me, in terms of where we're at, Royal assent is too quick. we're at, Royal assent is too quick. Can we're at, Royal assent is too quick. Can we we're at, Royal assent is too quick. Can we look we're at, Royal assent is too quick. Can we look at we're at, Royal assent is too quick. Can we look at 18 we're at, Royal assent is too quick. Can we look at 18 months we're at, Royal assent is too quick. Can we look at 18 months to we're at, Royal assent is too quick. Can we look at 18 months to ready Can we look at 18 months to ready the Can we look at 18 months to ready the system? Can we look at 18 months to ready the system? Can Can we look at 18 months to ready the system? Can we Can we look at 18 months to ready the system? Can we look Can we look at 18 months to ready the system? Can we look to Can we look at 18 months to ready the system? Can we look to work Can we look at 18 months to ready the system? Can we look to work on the system? Can we look to work on the the system? Can we look to work on the specialist the system? Can we look to work on the specialist positions the system? Can we look to work on the specialist positions that the system? Can we look to work on the specialist positions that are the specialist positions that are required the specialist positions that are required and the specialist positions that are required and oomph the specialist positions that are required and oomph up, the specialist positions that are required and oomph up, expand, the specialist positions that are required and oomph up, expand, those required and oomph up, expand, those community required and oomph up, expand, those community services required and oomph up, expand, those community services and required and oomph up, expand, those community services and also required and oomph up, expand, those community services and also the community services and also the rehab community services and also the rehab services community services and also the rehab services that community services and also the rehab services that are community services and also the rehab services that are in community services and also the rehab services that are in prisons rehab services that are in prisons to rehab services that are in prisons to support rehab services that are in prisons to support whanau rehab services that are in prisons to support whanau once rehab services that are in prisons to support whanau once they rehab services that are in prisons to support whanau once they are to support whanau once they are caught to support whanau once they are caught by to support whanau once they are caught by this to support whanau once they are caught by this bill? to support whanau once they are caught by this bill? Kia to support whanau once they are caught by this bill? Kia ora. to support whanau once they are caught by this bill? Kia ora. The caught by this bill? Kia ora. The Hon caught by this bill? Kia ora. The Hon Simon caught by this bill? Kia ora. The Hon Simon Watts. caught by this bill? Kia ora. The Hon Simon Watts. Thank caught by this bill? Kia ora. The Hon Simon Watts. Thank you caught by this bill? Kia ora. The Hon Simon Watts. Thank you for caught by this bill? Kia ora. The Hon Simon Watts. Thank you for the Hon Simon Watts. Thank you for the member Hon Simon Watts. Thank you for the member for Hon Simon Watts. Thank you for the member for that Hon Simon Watts. Thank you for the member for that question. Hon Simon Watts. Thank you for the member for that question. I Hon Simon Watts. Thank you for the member for that question. I would member for that question. I would refer member for that question. I would refer the member for that question. I would refer the member member for that question. I would refer the member to member for that question. I would refer the member to Clause member for that question. I would refer the member to Clause 2 member for that question. I would refer the member to Clause 2 of member for that question. I would refer the member to Clause 2 of the refer the member to Clause 2 of the bill refer the member to Clause 2 of the bill in refer the member to Clause 2 of the bill in which refer the member to Clause 2 of the bill in which states refer the member to Clause 2 of the bill in which states that refer the member to Clause 2 of the bill in which states that the bill in which states that the commencement bill in which states that the commencement of bill in which states that the commencement of this bill in which states that the commencement of this bill bill in which states that the commencement of this bill is bill in which states that the commencement of this bill is from bill in which states that the commencement of this bill is from 21 commencement of this bill is from 21 November commencement of this bill is from 21 November 2024. commencement of this bill is from 21 November 2024. If commencement of this bill is from 21 November 2024. If the commencement of this bill is from 21 November 2024. If the member commencement of this bill is from 21 November 2024. If the member wants November 2024. If the member wants to November 2024. If the member wants to be November 2024. If the member wants to be re November 2024. If the member wants to be re minded November 2024. If the member wants to be re minded about November 2024. If the member wants to be re minded about the November 2024. If the member wants to be re minded about the select to be re minded about the select committee to be re minded about the select committee process to be re minded about the select committee process - to be re minded about the select committee process - which to be re minded about the select committee process - which to to be re minded about the select committee process - which to the committee process - which to the other committee process - which to the other member's committee process - which to the other member's question, committee process - which to the other member's question, involved committee process - which to the other member's question, involved a other member's question, involved a full other member's question, involved a full process other member's question, involved a full process in other member's question, involved a full process in terms other member's question, involved a full process in terms of other member's question, involved a full process in terms of feedback full process in terms of feedback from full process in terms of feedback from all full process in terms of feedback from all related full process in terms of feedback from all related members full process in terms of feedback from all related members - full process in terms of feedback from all related members - those from all related members - those questions from all related members - those questions were from all related members - those questions were covered from all related members - those questions were covered in from all related members - those questions were covered in detail, questions were covered in detail, and questions were covered in detail, and the questions were covered in detail, and the date questions were covered in detail, and the date is questions were covered in detail, and the date is based questions were covered in detail, and the date is based on questions were covered in detail, and the date is based on feedback and the date is based on feedback and and the date is based on feedback and the and the date is based on feedback and the date and the date is based on feedback and the date requested and the date is based on feedback and the date requested by and the date is based on feedback and the date requested by the and the date is based on feedback and the date requested by the NZ and the date requested by the NZ Police and the date requested by the NZ Police that and the date requested by the NZ Police that aligns and the date requested by the NZ Police that aligns with and the date requested by the NZ Police that aligns with their Police that aligns with their operational Police that aligns with their operational requirements Police that aligns with their operational requirements and, Police that aligns with their operational requirements and, on operational requirements and, on that operational requirements and, on that basis, operational requirements and, on that basis, that operational requirements and, on that basis, that is operational requirements and, on that basis, that is the operational requirements and, on that basis, that is the date operational requirements and, on that basis, that is the date that that basis, that is the date that has that basis, that is the date that has been that basis, that is the date that has been selected. that basis, that is the date that has been selected. So, that basis, that is the date that has been selected. So, everything has been selected. So, everything that has been selected. So, everything that has has been selected. So, everything that has been has been selected. So, everything that has been coming has been selected. So, everything that has been coming is has been selected. So, everything that has been coming is lovely, has been selected. So, everything that has been coming is lovely, but that has been coming is lovely, but it that has been coming is lovely, but it doesn't that has been coming is lovely, but it doesn't correspond that has been coming is lovely, but it doesn't correspond to that has been coming is lovely, but it doesn't correspond to the that has been coming is lovely, but it doesn't correspond to the reality it doesn't correspond to the reality of it doesn't correspond to the reality of what it doesn't correspond to the reality of what the it doesn't correspond to the reality of what the decision it doesn't correspond to the reality of what the decision is it doesn't correspond to the reality of what the decision is based it doesn't correspond to the reality of what the decision is based upon. of what the decision is based upon. Members, of what the decision is based upon. Members, we've of what the decision is based upon. Members, we've had of what the decision is based upon. Members, we've had some of what the decision is based upon. Members, we've had some quite of what the decision is based upon. Members, we've had some quite good Members, we've had some quite good contextual Members, we've had some quite good contextual speeches Members, we've had some quite good contextual speeches - Members, we've had some quite good contextual speeches - right Members, we've had some quite good contextual speeches - right now, contextual speeches - right now, title contextual speeches - right now, title and contextual speeches - right now, title and commencement contextual speeches - right now, title and commencement will contextual speeches - right now, title and commencement will be contextual speeches - right now, title and commencement will be the title and commencement will be the subject title and commencement will be the subject of title and commencement will be the subject of any title and commencement will be the subject of any talk. title and commencement will be the subject of any talk. The title and commencement will be the subject of any talk. The Hon title and commencement will be the subject of any talk. The Hon Tracey subject of any talk. The Hon Tracey McLellan. subject of any talk. The Hon Tracey McLellan. Sorry, subject of any talk. The Hon Tracey McLellan. Sorry, Tracey subject of any talk. The Hon Tracey McLellan. Sorry, Tracey McLellan. McLellan. Sorry, Tracey McLellan. Thank McLellan. Sorry, Tracey McLellan. Thank you McLellan. Sorry, Tracey McLellan. Thank you for McLellan. Sorry, Tracey McLellan. Thank you for that McLellan. Sorry, Tracey McLellan. Thank you for that impromptu... McLellan. Sorry, Tracey McLellan. Thank you for that impromptu... Dr Thank you for that impromptu... Dr Tracey Thank you for that impromptu... Dr Tracey McLellan. Thank you for that impromptu... Dr Tracey McLellan. I Thank you for that impromptu... Dr Tracey McLellan. I won't Thank you for that impromptu... Dr Tracey McLellan. I won't take Thank you for that impromptu... Dr Tracey McLellan. I won't take long Tracey McLellan. I won't take long to Tracey McLellan. I won't take long to ask Tracey McLellan. I won't take long to ask the Tracey McLellan. I won't take long to ask the question. Tracey McLellan. I won't take long to ask the question. It Tracey McLellan. I won't take long to ask the question. It is Tracey McLellan. I won't take long to ask the question. It is a to ask the question. It is a question to ask the question. It is a question that to ask the question. It is a question that I'd to ask the question. It is a question that I'd like to ask the question. It is a question that I'd like an to ask the question. It is a question that I'd like an answer to ask the question. It is a question that I'd like an answer to. question that I'd like an answer to. It question that I'd like an answer to. It is question that I'd like an answer to. It is going question that I'd like an answer to. It is going to question that I'd like an answer to. It is going to supplement question that I'd like an answer to. It is going to supplement what question that I'd like an answer to. It is going to supplement what my It is going to supplement what my colleague It is going to supplement what my colleague from It is going to supplement what my colleague from the It is going to supplement what my colleague from the Green It is going to supplement what my colleague from the Green Party It is going to supplement what my colleague from the Green Party who's colleague from the Green Party who's just colleague from the Green Party who's just finished colleague from the Green Party who's just finished her colleague from the Green Party who's just finished her contribution. colleague from the Green Party who's just finished her contribution. What just finished her contribution. What I'm just finished her contribution. What I'm interested just finished her contribution. What I'm interested insofar just finished her contribution. What I'm interested insofar as just finished her contribution. What I'm interested insofar as the I'm interested insofar as the commencement I'm interested insofar as the commencement impact... I'm interested insofar as the commencement impact... Members, I'm interested insofar as the commencement impact... Members, who commencement impact... Members, who yelled commencement impact... Members, who yelled that commencement impact... Members, who yelled that out, commencement impact... Members, who yelled that out, about commencement impact... Members, who yelled that out, about "running yelled that out, about "running away"? yelled that out, about "running away"? Sorry, yelled that out, about "running away"? Sorry, I yelled that out, about "running away"? Sorry, I heard yelled that out, about "running away"? Sorry, I heard a yelled that out, about "running away"? Sorry, I heard a call yelled that out, about "running away"? Sorry, I heard a call from yelled that out, about "running away"? Sorry, I heard a call from - away"? Sorry, I heard a call from - someone away"? Sorry, I heard a call from - someone said away"? Sorry, I heard a call from - someone said "running away"? Sorry, I heard a call from - someone said "running away", someone said "running away", presumably someone said "running away", presumably directed someone said "running away", presumably directed at someone said "running away", presumably directed at a someone said "running away", presumably directed at a member presumably directed at a member leaving presumably directed at a member leaving the presumably directed at a member leaving the House? presumably directed at a member leaving the House? I presumably directed at a member leaving the House? I heard presumably directed at a member leaving the House? I heard it presumably directed at a member leaving the House? I heard it too. leaving the House? I heard it too. Well, leaving the House? I heard it too. Well, I leaving the House? I heard it too. Well, I heard leaving the House? I heard it too. Well, I heard that leaving the House? I heard it too. Well, I heard that expression. Well, I heard that expression. Whoever Well, I heard that expression. Whoever said Well, I heard that expression. Whoever said it, Well, I heard that expression. Whoever said it, please Well, I heard that expression. Whoever said it, please stand Well, I heard that expression. Whoever said it, please stand up. Whoever said it, please stand up. <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> Members, <INTERRUPTION> Members, don't <INTERRUPTION> Members, don't make <INTERRUPTION> Members, don't make me <INTERRUPTION> Members, don't make me go <INTERRUPTION> Members, don't make me go back <INTERRUPTION> Members, don't make me go back and Members, don't make me go back and have Members, don't make me go back and have a Members, don't make me go back and have a look Members, don't make me go back and have a look at Members, don't make me go back and have a look at the... Members, don't make me go back and have a look at the... <INTERRUPTION> have a look at the... <INTERRUPTION> I have a look at the... <INTERRUPTION> I don't have a look at the... <INTERRUPTION> I don't think have a look at the... <INTERRUPTION> I don't think I have a look at the... <INTERRUPTION> I don't think I said have a look at the... <INTERRUPTION> I don't think I said "running have a look at the... <INTERRUPTION> I don't think I said "running away" I don't think I said "running away" but I don't think I said "running away" but I I don't think I said "running away" but I said I don't think I said "running away" but I said "going I don't think I said "running away" but I said "going away". I don't think I said "running away" but I said "going away". Were I don't think I said "running away" but I said "going away". Were you but I said "going away". Were you referring but I said "going away". Were you referring to but I said "going away". Were you referring to the but I said "going away". Were you referring to the member but I said "going away". Were you referring to the member leaving but I said "going away". Were you referring to the member leaving the referring to the member leaving the House? referring to the member leaving the House? Well, referring to the member leaving the House? Well, I referring to the member leaving the House? Well, I was referring to the member leaving the House? Well, I was referring referring to the member leaving the House? Well, I was referring to referring to the member leaving the House? Well, I was referring to that House? Well, I was referring to that member. House? Well, I was referring to that member. You House? Well, I was referring to that member. You know House? Well, I was referring to that member. You know the House? Well, I was referring to that member. You know the rules House? Well, I was referring to that member. You know the rules about House? Well, I was referring to that member. You know the rules about - member. You know the rules about - do member. You know the rules about - do not member. You know the rules about - do not refer member. You know the rules about - do not refer to member. You know the rules about - do not refer to people member. You know the rules about - do not refer to people in member. You know the rules about - do not refer to people in or member. You know the rules about - do not refer to people in or leaving do not refer to people in or leaving the do not refer to people in or leaving the House. do not refer to people in or leaving the House. The do not refer to people in or leaving the House. The member do not refer to people in or leaving the House. The member will do not refer to people in or leaving the House. The member will withdraw the House. The member will withdraw and the House. The member will withdraw and apologise. the House. The member will withdraw and apologise. I the House. The member will withdraw and apologise. I withdraw the House. The member will withdraw and apologise. I withdraw and and apologise. I withdraw and apologise, and apologise. I withdraw and apologise, Mr and apologise. I withdraw and apologise, Mr Chair. and apologise. I withdraw and apologise, Mr Chair. Thank and apologise. I withdraw and apologise, Mr Chair. Thank you. apologise, Mr Chair. Thank you. Alright. apologise, Mr Chair. Thank you. Alright. Restart apologise, Mr Chair. Thank you. Alright. Restart the apologise, Mr Chair. Thank you. Alright. Restart the clock. apologise, Mr Chair. Thank you. Alright. Restart the clock. Thank Alright. Restart the clock. Thank you, Alright. Restart the clock. Thank you, Mr Alright. Restart the clock. Thank you, Mr Chair. Alright. Restart the clock. Thank you, Mr Chair. I Alright. Restart the clock. Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted Alright. Restart the clock. Thank you, Mr Chair. I wanted to you, Mr Chair. I wanted to specifically you, Mr Chair. I wanted to specifically also you, Mr Chair. I wanted to specifically also focus you, Mr Chair. I wanted to specifically also focus on you, Mr Chair. I wanted to specifically also focus on the specifically also focus on the commencement specifically also focus on the commencement date. specifically also focus on the commencement date. As specifically also focus on the commencement date. As we've specifically also focus on the commencement date. As we've heard, commencement date. As we've heard, the commencement date. As we've heard, the commencement commencement date. As we've heard, the commencement date commencement date. As we've heard, the commencement date of commencement date. As we've heard, the commencement date of 21 commencement date. As we've heard, the commencement date of 21 November the commencement date of 21 November is the commencement date of 21 November is the the commencement date of 21 November is the commencement the commencement date of 21 November is the commencement date. the commencement date of 21 November is the commencement date. I the commencement date of 21 November is the commencement date. I think the commencement date of 21 November is the commencement date. I think my is the commencement date. I think my colleague is the commencement date. I think my colleague from is the commencement date. I think my colleague from the is the commencement date. I think my colleague from the Green is the commencement date. I think my colleague from the Green Party is the commencement date. I think my colleague from the Green Party makes colleague from the Green Party makes a colleague from the Green Party makes a really, colleague from the Green Party makes a really, really colleague from the Green Party makes a really, really valid colleague from the Green Party makes a really, really valid point, a really, really valid point, particularly a really, really valid point, particularly in a really, really valid point, particularly in relation a really, really valid point, particularly in relation to a really, really valid point, particularly in relation to prisons. particularly in relation to prisons. We particularly in relation to prisons. We know, particularly in relation to prisons. We know, for particularly in relation to prisons. We know, for instance particularly in relation to prisons. We know, for instance - particularly in relation to prisons. We know, for instance - sure, particularly in relation to prisons. We know, for instance - sure, there We know, for instance - sure, there is We know, for instance - sure, there is extra We know, for instance - sure, there is extra capacity We know, for instance - sure, there is extra capacity coming We know, for instance - sure, there is extra capacity coming onboard. is extra capacity coming onboard. That is extra capacity coming onboard. That won't is extra capacity coming onboard. That won't be is extra capacity coming onboard. That won't be viable is extra capacity coming onboard. That won't be viable until is extra capacity coming onboard. That won't be viable until at is extra capacity coming onboard. That won't be viable until at least That won't be viable until at least third That won't be viable until at least third quarter, That won't be viable until at least third quarter, probably, That won't be viable until at least third quarter, probably, next That won't be viable until at least third quarter, probably, next year. third quarter, probably, next year. And third quarter, probably, next year. And we've third quarter, probably, next year. And we've heard third quarter, probably, next year. And we've heard from third quarter, probably, next year. And we've heard from the third quarter, probably, next year. And we've heard from the Hon third quarter, probably, next year. And we've heard from the Hon Ginny And we've heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen And we've heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen about And we've heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen about the And we've heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen about the shortage And we've heard from the Hon Ginny Andersen about the shortage of Andersen about the shortage of police. Andersen about the shortage of police. But Andersen about the shortage of police. But it Andersen about the shortage of police. But it was Andersen about the shortage of police. But it was interesting Andersen about the shortage of police. But it was interesting - Andersen about the shortage of police. But it was interesting - I police. But it was interesting - I know police. But it was interesting - I know that police. But it was interesting - I know that the police. But it was interesting - I know that the Minister police. But it was interesting - I know that the Minister was police. But it was interesting - I know that the Minister was briefed know that the Minister was briefed earlier know that the Minister was briefed earlier this know that the Minister was briefed earlier this year know that the Minister was briefed earlier this year about know that the Minister was briefed earlier this year about - know that the Minister was briefed earlier this year about - what know that the Minister was briefed earlier this year about - what is earlier this year about - what is the earlier this year about - what is the impact earlier this year about - what is the impact that earlier this year about - what is the impact that the earlier this year about - what is the impact that the Government's the impact that the Government's policies the impact that the Government's policies might the impact that the Government's policies might have the impact that the Government's policies might have on the impact that the Government's policies might have on the the impact that the Government's policies might have on the prison policies might have on the prison population, policies might have on the prison population, certainly policies might have on the prison population, certainly in policies might have on the prison population, certainly in the population, certainly in the short-term? population, certainly in the short-term? Whilst population, certainly in the short-term? Whilst it's population, certainly in the short-term? Whilst it's just short-term? Whilst it's just modelling, short-term? Whilst it's just modelling, and short-term? Whilst it's just modelling, and it's short-term? Whilst it's just modelling, and it's a short-term? Whilst it's just modelling, and it's a bit short-term? Whilst it's just modelling, and it's a bit of short-term? Whilst it's just modelling, and it's a bit of a modelling, and it's a bit of a guesstimate, modelling, and it's a bit of a guesstimate, it modelling, and it's a bit of a guesstimate, it is modelling, and it's a bit of a guesstimate, it is in modelling, and it's a bit of a guesstimate, it is in fact modelling, and it's a bit of a guesstimate, it is in fact what modelling, and it's a bit of a guesstimate, it is in fact what we guesstimate, it is in fact what we base guesstimate, it is in fact what we base that guesstimate, it is in fact what we base that on. guesstimate, it is in fact what we base that on. And guesstimate, it is in fact what we base that on. And I guesstimate, it is in fact what we base that on. And I noticed guesstimate, it is in fact what we base that on. And I noticed that base that on. And I noticed that there base that on. And I noticed that there was base that on. And I noticed that there was four base that on. And I noticed that there was four particular base that on. And I noticed that there was four particular lines base that on. And I noticed that there was four particular lines in there was four particular lines in the there was four particular lines in the table there was four particular lines in the table that there was four particular lines in the table that were there was four particular lines in the table that were provided. there was four particular lines in the table that were provided. The the table that were provided. The first the table that were provided. The first one the table that were provided. The first one was the table that were provided. The first one was Section the table that were provided. The first one was Section 27 the table that were provided. The first one was Section 27 reports. first one was Section 27 reports. That first one was Section 27 reports. That was first one was Section 27 reports. That was assumed first one was Section 27 reports. That was assumed would first one was Section 27 reports. That was assumed would increase first one was Section 27 reports. That was assumed would increase the That was assumed would increase the prison That was assumed would increase the prison population That was assumed would increase the prison population by That was assumed would increase the prison population by about That was assumed would increase the prison population by about 380 prison population by about 380 prisoners, prison population by about 380 prisoners, and prison population by about 380 prisoners, and the prison population by about 380 prisoners, and the second prison population by about 380 prisoners, and the second one prison population by about 380 prisoners, and the second one was prisoners, and the second one was adding prisoners, and the second one was adding 300 prisoners, and the second one was adding 300 police, prisoners, and the second one was adding 300 police, which prisoners, and the second one was adding 300 police, which I prisoners, and the second one was adding 300 police, which I note adding 300 police, which I note wasn't adding 300 police, which I note wasn't 500 adding 300 police, which I note wasn't 500 - adding 300 police, which I note wasn't 500 - it adding 300 police, which I note wasn't 500 - it was adding 300 police, which I note wasn't 500 - it was 300. adding 300 police, which I note wasn't 500 - it was 300. I'm adding 300 police, which I note wasn't 500 - it was 300. I'm not wasn't 500 - it was 300. I'm not sure wasn't 500 - it was 300. I'm not sure whether wasn't 500 - it was 300. I'm not sure whether that wasn't 500 - it was 300. I'm not sure whether that indicates, wasn't 500 - it was 300. I'm not sure whether that indicates, for sure whether that indicates, for instance, sure whether that indicates, for instance, the sure whether that indicates, for instance, the Government's sure whether that indicates, for instance, the Government's lack sure whether that indicates, for instance, the Government's lack of instance, the Government's lack of confidence instance, the Government's lack of confidence that instance, the Government's lack of confidence that they'll instance, the Government's lack of confidence that they'll get instance, the Government's lack of confidence that they'll get to instance, the Government's lack of confidence that they'll get to the confidence that they'll get to the five00 confidence that they'll get to the five00 target. confidence that they'll get to the five00 target. But confidence that they'll get to the five00 target. But nevertheless, confidence that they'll get to the five00 target. But nevertheless, the five00 target. But nevertheless, the estimate five00 target. But nevertheless, the estimate was five00 target. But nevertheless, the estimate was that five00 target. But nevertheless, the estimate was that that five00 target. But nevertheless, the estimate was that that would estimate was that that would increase estimate was that that would increase the estimate was that that would increase the prison estimate was that that would increase the prison population estimate was that that would increase the prison population by increase the prison population by 100. increase the prison population by 100. So, increase the prison population by 100. So, we're increase the prison population by 100. So, we're already increase the prison population by 100. So, we're already up increase the prison population by 100. So, we're already up to increase the prison population by 100. So, we're already up to 400 increase the prison population by 100. So, we're already up to 400 of 100. So, we're already up to 400 of the 100. So, we're already up to 400 of the increased 100. So, we're already up to 400 of the increased capacity 100. So, we're already up to 400 of the increased capacity of 100. So, we're already up to 400 of the increased capacity of the 100. So, we're already up to 400 of the increased capacity of the 500 the increased capacity of the 500 beds the increased capacity of the 500 beds that the increased capacity of the 500 beds that are the increased capacity of the 500 beds that are coming the increased capacity of the 500 beds that are coming on the increased capacity of the 500 beds that are coming on at the increased capacity of the 500 beds that are coming on at Waikiria beds that are coming on at Waikiria next beds that are coming on at Waikiria next year. beds that are coming on at Waikiria next year. There beds that are coming on at Waikiria next year. There were beds that are coming on at Waikiria next year. There were two beds that are coming on at Waikiria next year. There were two lines beds that are coming on at Waikiria next year. There were two lines that next year. There were two lines that were next year. There were two lines that were redacted. next year. There were two lines that were redacted. I'm next year. There were two lines that were redacted. I'm wondering next year. There were two lines that were redacted. I'm wondering whether were redacted. I'm wondering whether the were redacted. I'm wondering whether the Minister were redacted. I'm wondering whether the Minister obviously were redacted. I'm wondering whether the Minister obviously probably were redacted. I'm wondering whether the Minister obviously probably will the Minister obviously probably will have the Minister obviously probably will have some the Minister obviously probably will have some further the Minister obviously probably will have some further information the Minister obviously probably will have some further information about have some further information about what have some further information about what those have some further information about what those two have some further information about what those two entries have some further information about what those two entries were have some further information about what those two entries were in. what those two entries were in. Because what those two entries were in. Because we what those two entries were in. Because we can't what those two entries were in. Because we can't see what those two entries were in. Because we can't see (a) what those two entries were in. Because we can't see (a) what what those two entries were in. Because we can't see (a) what they Because we can't see (a) what they were Because we can't see (a) what they were - Because we can't see (a) what they were - we Because we can't see (a) what they were - we can Because we can't see (a) what they were - we can surmise Because we can't see (a) what they were - we can surmise that Because we can't see (a) what they were - we can surmise that one Because we can't see (a) what they were - we can surmise that one of were - we can surmise that one of them were - we can surmise that one of them may were - we can surmise that one of them may have were - we can surmise that one of them may have been were - we can surmise that one of them may have been this were - we can surmise that one of them may have been this gangs them may have been this gangs legislation, them may have been this gangs legislation, that them may have been this gangs legislation, that would them may have been this gangs legislation, that would make them may have been this gangs legislation, that would make sense legislation, that would make sense insofar legislation, that would make sense insofar as legislation, that would make sense insofar as it legislation, that would make sense insofar as it being legislation, that would make sense insofar as it being next legislation, that would make sense insofar as it being next cab legislation, that would make sense insofar as it being next cab off legislation, that would make sense insofar as it being next cab off the insofar as it being next cab off the rank. insofar as it being next cab off the rank. But insofar as it being next cab off the rank. But what insofar as it being next cab off the rank. But what we insofar as it being next cab off the rank. But what we can insofar as it being next cab off the rank. But what we can tell insofar as it being next cab off the rank. But what we can tell is insofar as it being next cab off the rank. But what we can tell is the rank. But what we can tell is the total rank. But what we can tell is the total - rank. But what we can tell is the total - the rank. But what we can tell is the total - the total rank. But what we can tell is the total - the total was rank. But what we can tell is the total - the total was 800. rank. But what we can tell is the total - the total was 800. We rank. But what we can tell is the total - the total was 800. We know total - the total was 800. We know there's total - the total was 800. We know there's 320 total - the total was 800. We know there's 320 - total - the total was 800. We know there's 320 - an total - the total was 800. We know there's 320 - an expectation total - the total was 800. We know there's 320 - an expectation of there's 320 - an expectation of about there's 320 - an expectation of about 320 there's 320 - an expectation of about 320 increased there's 320 - an expectation of about 320 increased prisoners about 320 increased prisoners because about 320 increased prisoners because of about 320 increased prisoners because of these about 320 increased prisoners because of these two about 320 increased prisoners because of these two redacted about 320 increased prisoners because of these two redacted pieces because of these two redacted pieces of because of these two redacted pieces of policy because of these two redacted pieces of policy that because of these two redacted pieces of policy that we're because of these two redacted pieces of policy that we're due because of these two redacted pieces of policy that we're due to because of these two redacted pieces of policy that we're due to endure. of policy that we're due to endure. When of policy that we're due to endure. When I of policy that we're due to endure. When I think of policy that we're due to endure. When I think about of policy that we're due to endure. When I think about 21 of policy that we're due to endure. When I think about 21 November of policy that we're due to endure. When I think about 21 November as When I think about 21 November as the When I think about 21 November as the commencement When I think about 21 November as the commencement date, When I think about 21 November as the commencement date, it When I think about 21 November as the commencement date, it really the commencement date, it really does the commencement date, it really does create, the commencement date, it really does create, as the commencement date, it really does create, as has the commencement date, it really does create, as has been the commencement date, it really does create, as has been said, the commencement date, it really does create, as has been said, quite does create, as has been said, quite an does create, as has been said, quite an impetus does create, as has been said, quite an impetus for does create, as has been said, quite an impetus for some does create, as has been said, quite an impetus for some urgency. does create, as has been said, quite an impetus for some urgency. We does create, as has been said, quite an impetus for some urgency. We know an impetus for some urgency. We know that an impetus for some urgency. We know that prisons an impetus for some urgency. We know that prisons are an impetus for some urgency. We know that prisons are bursting an impetus for some urgency. We know that prisons are bursting at an impetus for some urgency. We know that prisons are bursting at the that prisons are bursting at the seam. that prisons are bursting at the seam. We that prisons are bursting at the seam. We know that prisons are bursting at the seam. We know that that prisons are bursting at the seam. We know that there that prisons are bursting at the seam. We know that there are that prisons are bursting at the seam. We know that there are some seam. We know that there are some infrastructure seam. We know that there are some infrastructure challenges seam. We know that there are some infrastructure challenges insofar seam. We know that there are some infrastructure challenges insofar as infrastructure challenges insofar as rebuilds infrastructure challenges insofar as rebuilds and infrastructure challenges insofar as rebuilds and people infrastructure challenges insofar as rebuilds and people being infrastructure challenges insofar as rebuilds and people being moved infrastructure challenges insofar as rebuilds and people being moved all rebuilds and people being moved all over rebuilds and people being moved all over the rebuilds and people being moved all over the show rebuilds and people being moved all over the show to rebuilds and people being moved all over the show to accommodate rebuilds and people being moved all over the show to accommodate that. over the show to accommodate that. And over the show to accommodate that. And the over the show to accommodate that. And the huge over the show to accommodate that. And the huge costs over the show to accommodate that. And the huge costs that over the show to accommodate that. And the huge costs that that over the show to accommodate that. And the huge costs that that incurs. And the huge costs that that incurs. So And the huge costs that that incurs. So I And the huge costs that that incurs. So I would And the huge costs that that incurs. So I would be And the huge costs that that incurs. So I would be interested And the huge costs that that incurs. So I would be interested (a) And the huge costs that that incurs. So I would be interested (a) in And the huge costs that that incurs. So I would be interested (a) in the So I would be interested (a) in the Minister's So I would be interested (a) in the Minister's expressing So I would be interested (a) in the Minister's expressing a So I would be interested (a) in the Minister's expressing a little So I would be interested (a) in the Minister's expressing a little bit Minister's expressing a little bit more Minister's expressing a little bit more confidence Minister's expressing a little bit more confidence in Minister's expressing a little bit more confidence in the Minister's expressing a little bit more confidence in the commencement more confidence in the commencement date more confidence in the commencement date on more confidence in the commencement date on 21 more confidence in the commencement date on 21 November more confidence in the commencement date on 21 November with more confidence in the commencement date on 21 November with some date on 21 November with some specifics date on 21 November with some specifics about date on 21 November with some specifics about how date on 21 November with some specifics about how that date on 21 November with some specifics about how that will date on 21 November with some specifics about how that will be specifics about how that will be handled specifics about how that will be handled when specifics about how that will be handled when we specifics about how that will be handled when we know specifics about how that will be handled when we know full specifics about how that will be handled when we know full well specifics about how that will be handled when we know full well that handled when we know full well that it handled when we know full well that it will handled when we know full well that it will require handled when we know full well that it will require that handled when we know full well that it will require that capacity handled when we know full well that it will require that capacity and it will require that capacity and acknowledgement it will require that capacity and acknowledgement of it will require that capacity and acknowledgement of such. it will require that capacity and acknowledgement of such. So, it will require that capacity and acknowledgement of such. So, any acknowledgement of such. So, any information acknowledgement of such. So, any information will acknowledgement of such. So, any information will be acknowledgement of such. So, any information will be much information will be much appreciated, information will be much appreciated, but information will be much appreciated, but particularly information will be much appreciated, but particularly if information will be much appreciated, but particularly if he appreciated, but particularly if he could appreciated, but particularly if he could comment appreciated, but particularly if he could comment on appreciated, but particularly if he could comment on those appreciated, but particularly if he could comment on those two appreciated, but particularly if he could comment on those two pieces appreciated, but particularly if he could comment on those two pieces of could comment on those two pieces of information could comment on those two pieces of information that could comment on those two pieces of information that we're could comment on those two pieces of information that we're unable could comment on those two pieces of information that we're unable to could comment on those two pieces of information that we're unable to get information that we're unable to get our information that we're unable to get our hands information that we're unable to get our hands on, information that we're unable to get our hands on, because information that we're unable to get our hands on, because they're our hands on, because they're redacted our hands on, because they're redacted - our hands on, because they're redacted - but our hands on, because they're redacted - but almost our hands on, because they're redacted - but almost certainly our hands on, because they're redacted - but almost certainly are redacted - but almost certainly are related redacted - but almost certainly are related to redacted - but almost certainly are related to this redacted - but almost certainly are related to this bill. redacted - but almost certainly are related to this bill. Vanessa related to this bill. Vanessa Weenink. related to this bill. Vanessa Weenink. I related to this bill. Vanessa Weenink. I move related to this bill. Vanessa Weenink. I move that related to this bill. Vanessa Weenink. I move that debate related to this bill. Vanessa Weenink. I move that debate on related to this bill. Vanessa Weenink. I move that debate on this Weenink. I move that debate on this question Weenink. I move that debate on this question now Weenink. I move that debate on this question now close. Weenink. I move that debate on this question now close. I'll Weenink. I move that debate on this question now close. I'll go Weenink. I move that debate on this question now close. I'll go to Weenink. I move that debate on this question now close. I'll go to the question now close. I'll go to the Hon question now close. I'll go to the Hon Willie question now close. I'll go to the Hon Willie Jackson. question now close. I'll go to the Hon Willie Jackson. <INTERRUPTION> Hon Willie Jackson. <INTERRUPTION> Hon Willie Jackson. <INTERRUPTION> ..with Hon Willie Jackson. <INTERRUPTION> ..with the Hon Willie Jackson. <INTERRUPTION> ..with the expectation Hon Willie Jackson. <INTERRUPTION> ..with the expectation that Hon Willie Jackson. <INTERRUPTION> ..with the expectation that he Hon Willie Jackson. <INTERRUPTION> ..with the expectation that he will ..with the expectation that he will not ..with the expectation that he will not drift ..with the expectation that he will not drift very ..with the expectation that he will not drift very far, ..with the expectation that he will not drift very far, if ..with the expectation that he will not drift very far, if at ..with the expectation that he will not drift very far, if at all, ..with the expectation that he will not drift very far, if at all, from not drift very far, if at all, from the not drift very far, if at all, from the title not drift very far, if at all, from the title and not drift very far, if at all, from the title and commencement. the title and commencement. <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> Mr <INTERRUPTION> Mr Chair, <INTERRUPTION> Mr Chair, I'm <INTERRUPTION> Mr Chair, I'm really <INTERRUPTION> Mr Chair, I'm really concerned <INTERRUPTION> Mr Chair, I'm really concerned about Mr Chair, I'm really concerned about this Mr Chair, I'm really concerned about this bill, Mr Chair, I'm really concerned about this bill, as Mr Chair, I'm really concerned about this bill, as the Mr Chair, I'm really concerned about this bill, as the House Mr Chair, I'm really concerned about this bill, as the House knows. Mr Chair, I'm really concerned about this bill, as the House knows. I this bill, as the House knows. I would this bill, as the House knows. I would like this bill, as the House knows. I would like to... this bill, as the House knows. I would like to... Point this bill, as the House knows. I would like to... Point of this bill, as the House knows. I would like to... Point of order. would like to... Point of order. Point would like to... Point of order. Point of would like to... Point of order. Point of order, would like to... Point of order. Point of order, Matt would like to... Point of order. Point of order, Matt Doocey. would like to... Point of order. Point of order, Matt Doocey. Mr Point of order, Matt Doocey. Mr Chair, Point of order, Matt Doocey. Mr Chair, the Point of order, Matt Doocey. Mr Chair, the Standing Point of order, Matt Doocey. Mr Chair, the Standing Orders Point of order, Matt Doocey. Mr Chair, the Standing Orders make Point of order, Matt Doocey. Mr Chair, the Standing Orders make it Chair, the Standing Orders make it very Chair, the Standing Orders make it very clear Chair, the Standing Orders make it very clear - Chair, the Standing Orders make it very clear - title Chair, the Standing Orders make it very clear - title and Chair, the Standing Orders make it very clear - title and commencement, very clear - title and commencement, Committee very clear - title and commencement, Committee of very clear - title and commencement, Committee of the very clear - title and commencement, Committee of the whole very clear - title and commencement, Committee of the whole House, very clear - title and commencement, Committee of the whole House, is Committee of the whole House, is about Committee of the whole House, is about getting Committee of the whole House, is about getting up Committee of the whole House, is about getting up and Committee of the whole House, is about getting up and asking Committee of the whole House, is about getting up and asking the about getting up and asking the Minister about getting up and asking the Minister questions. about getting up and asking the Minister questions. We've about getting up and asking the Minister questions. We've had about getting up and asking the Minister questions. We've had that Minister questions. We've had that member Minister questions. We've had that member get Minister questions. We've had that member get up Minister questions. We've had that member get up successively, Minister questions. We've had that member get up successively, give Minister questions. We've had that member get up successively, give us member get up successively, give us 10-minute member get up successively, give us 10-minute rants member get up successively, give us 10-minute rants about member get up successively, give us 10-minute rants about nothing... member get up successively, give us 10-minute rants about nothing... Mr 10-minute rants about nothing... Mr Doocey. 10-minute rants about nothing... Mr Doocey. Mr 10-minute rants about nothing... Mr Doocey. Mr Doocey. 10-minute rants about nothing... Mr Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit 10-minute rants about nothing... Mr Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. 10-minute rants about nothing... Mr Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As 10-minute rants about nothing... Mr Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you well Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you well know, Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you well know, that Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you well know, that is Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you well know, that is a Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you well know, that is a job Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you well know, that is a job for Doocey. Mr Doocey. Sit down. As you well know, that is a job for the well know, that is a job for the Chair. well know, that is a job for the Chair. Any well know, that is a job for the Chair. Any more well know, that is a job for the Chair. Any more of well know, that is a job for the Chair. Any more of that well know, that is a job for the Chair. Any more of that will well know, that is a job for the Chair. Any more of that will be Chair. Any more of that will be trifling Chair. Any more of that will be trifling with Chair. Any more of that will be trifling with the Chair. Any more of that will be trifling with the House. Chair. Any more of that will be trifling with the House. So, Chair. Any more of that will be trifling with the House. So, no trifling with the House. So, no more. trifling with the House. So, no more. Carry trifling with the House. So, no more. Carry on, trifling with the House. So, no more. Carry on, Mr trifling with the House. So, no more. Carry on, Mr Jackson. trifling with the House. So, no more. Carry on, Mr Jackson. Thank more. Carry on, Mr Jackson. Thank you, more. Carry on, Mr Jackson. Thank you, Mr more. Carry on, Mr Jackson. Thank you, Mr Chair. more. Carry on, Mr Jackson. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'm more. Carry on, Mr Jackson. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'm disappointed more. Carry on, Mr Jackson. Thank you, Mr Chair. I'm disappointed that you, Mr Chair. I'm disappointed that that you, Mr Chair. I'm disappointed that that member's you, Mr Chair. I'm disappointed that that member's not you, Mr Chair. I'm disappointed that that member's not enjoying you, Mr Chair. I'm disappointed that that member's not enjoying my that member's not enjoying my submissions, that member's not enjoying my submissions, but that member's not enjoying my submissions, but I that member's not enjoying my submissions, but I hope that member's not enjoying my submissions, but I hope he'll that member's not enjoying my submissions, but I hope he'll be submissions, but I hope he'll be able submissions, but I hope he'll be able to submissions, but I hope he'll be able to learn submissions, but I hope he'll be able to learn something submissions, but I hope he'll be able to learn something from submissions, but I hope he'll be able to learn something from this able to learn something from this korero. able to learn something from this korero. Because able to learn something from this korero. Because I'm able to learn something from this korero. Because I'm talking able to learn something from this korero. Because I'm talking about korero. Because I'm talking about the korero. Because I'm talking about the title, korero. Because I'm talking about the title, Mr korero. Because I'm talking about the title, Mr Chair. korero. Because I'm talking about the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> I the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> I want the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> I want to the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> I want to help the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> I want to help the the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> I want to help the other the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> I want to help the other side the title, Mr Chair. <INTERRUPTION> I want to help the other side out I want to help the other side out over I want to help the other side out over there, I want to help the other side out over there, because I want to help the other side out over there, because they've I want to help the other side out over there, because they've been over there, because they've been struggling over there, because they've been struggling - over there, because they've been struggling - they're over there, because they've been struggling - they're struggling over there, because they've been struggling - they're struggling with struggling - they're struggling with this struggling - they're struggling with this title. struggling - they're struggling with this title. And struggling - they're struggling with this title. And coincidently, struggling - they're struggling with this title. And coincidently, I struggling - they're struggling with this title. And coincidently, I got this title. And coincidently, I got a this title. And coincidently, I got a phone this title. And coincidently, I got a phone call, this title. And coincidently, I got a phone call, Mr this title. And coincidently, I got a phone call, Mr Chair, this title. And coincidently, I got a phone call, Mr Chair, about this title. And coincidently, I got a phone call, Mr Chair, about the a phone call, Mr Chair, about the title a phone call, Mr Chair, about the title just a phone call, Mr Chair, about the title just in a phone call, Mr Chair, about the title just in the a phone call, Mr Chair, about the title just in the last a phone call, Mr Chair, about the title just in the last few a phone call, Mr Chair, about the title just in the last few minutes. title just in the last few minutes. <INTERRUPTION> <INTERRUPTION> Coincidently, <INTERRUPTION> Coincidently, from <INTERRUPTION> Coincidently, from a <INTERRUPTION> Coincidently, from a gang <INTERRUPTION> Coincidently, from a gang member <INTERRUPTION> Coincidently, from a gang member who Coincidently, from a gang member who wants Coincidently, from a gang member who wants to Coincidently, from a gang member who wants to help Coincidently, from a gang member who wants to help out. Coincidently, from a gang member who wants to help out. Fully wants to help out. Fully rehabilitated, wants to help out. Fully rehabilitated, Mr wants to help out. Fully rehabilitated, Mr Chair. wants to help out. Fully rehabilitated, Mr Chair. His wants to help out. Fully rehabilitated, Mr Chair. His name's rehabilitated, Mr Chair. His name's Martin rehabilitated, Mr Chair. His name's Martin Cooper. rehabilitated, Mr Chair. His name's Martin Cooper. I'm rehabilitated, Mr Chair. His name's Martin Cooper. I'm quite rehabilitated, Mr Chair. His name's Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy rehabilitated, Mr Chair. His name's Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy to Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy to name Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy to name some Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy to name some of Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy to name some of these Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy to name some of these gang Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy to name some of these gang members, Martin Cooper. I'm quite happy to name some of these gang members, Mr name some of these gang members, Mr Chair. name some of these gang members, Mr Chair. In name some of these gang members, Mr Chair. In fact, name some of these gang members, Mr Chair. In fact, Mr name some of these gang members, Mr Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, name some of these gang members, Mr Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, you name some of these gang members, Mr Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, you would Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, you would probably Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, you would probably know Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, you would probably know some Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, you would probably know some of Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, you would probably know some of them Chair. In fact, Mr Chair, you would probably know some of them too, probably know some of them too, given probably know some of them too, given your probably know some of them too, given your background probably know some of them too, given your background and probably know some of them too, given your background and history probably know some of them too, given your background and history in given your background and history in dealing given your background and history in dealing with given your background and history in dealing with gangs given your background and history in dealing with gangs too. given your background and history in dealing with gangs too. So given your background and history in dealing with gangs too. So this given your background and history in dealing with gangs too. So this is dealing with gangs too. So this is someone dealing with gangs too. So this is someone who's dealing with gangs too. So this is someone who's really dealing with gangs too. So this is someone who's really concerned dealing with gangs too. So this is someone who's really concerned about someone who's really concerned about the someone who's really concerned about the title, someone who's really concerned about the title, which someone who's really concerned about the title, which is someone who's really concerned about the title, which is what someone who's really concerned about the title, which is what we're the title, which is what we're talking the title, which is what we're talking about. the title, which is what we're talking about. And the title, which is what we're talking about. And he the title, which is what we're talking about. And he sees the title, which is what we're talking about. And he sees the the title, which is what we're talking about. And he sees the Gangs talking about. And he sees the Gangs Legislation talking about. And he sees the Gangs Legislation Amendment talking about. And he sees the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill talking about. And he sees the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and talking about. And he sees the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and he Legislation Amendment Bill and he was Legislation Amendment Bill and he was part Legislation Amendment Bill and he was part of Legislation Amendment Bill and he was part of - Legislation Amendment Bill and he was part of - just Legislation Amendment Bill and he was part of - just giving Legislation Amendment Bill and he was part of - just giving you Legislation Amendment Bill and he was part of - just giving you some was part of - just giving you some background was part of - just giving you some background and was part of - just giving you some background and history, was part of - just giving you some background and history, Mr was part of - just giving you some background and history, Mr Chair was part of - just giving you some background and history, Mr Chair - background and history, Mr Chair - he background and history, Mr Chair - he was background and history, Mr Chair - he was someone background and history, Mr Chair - he was someone who background and history, Mr Chair - he was someone who was background and history, Mr Chair - he was someone who was part background and history, Mr Chair - he was someone who was part of background and history, Mr Chair - he was someone who was part of the he was someone who was part of the work he was someone who was part of the work programmes he was someone who was part of the work programmes that he was someone who was part of the work programmes that were he was someone who was part of the work programmes that were in he was someone who was part of the work programmes that were in South work programmes that were in South Auckland. work programmes that were in South Auckland. Martin work programmes that were in South Auckland. Martin Cooper work programmes that were in South Auckland. Martin Cooper worked work programmes that were in South Auckland. Martin Cooper worked and Auckland. Martin Cooper worked and put Auckland. Martin Cooper worked and put young Auckland. Martin Cooper worked and put young gangsters, Auckland. Martin Cooper worked and put young gangsters, Mr Auckland. Martin Cooper worked and put young gangsters, Mr Chair, Auckland. Martin Cooper worked and put young gangsters, Mr Chair, into put young gangsters, Mr Chair, into work. put young gangsters, Mr Chair, into work. So put young gangsters, Mr Chair, into work. So he's put young gangsters, Mr Chair, into work. So he's suggesting put young gangsters, Mr Chair, into work. So he's suggesting - put young gangsters, Mr Chair, into work. So he's suggesting - and put young gangsters, Mr Chair, into work. So he's suggesting - and I'd work. So he's suggesting - and I'd have work. So he's suggesting - and I'd have to work. So he's suggesting - and I'd have to agree work. So he's suggesting - and I'd have to agree with work. So he's suggesting - and I'd have to agree with him work. So he's suggesting - and I'd have to agree with him - work. So he's suggesting - and I'd have to agree with him - to work. So he's suggesting - and I'd have to agree with him - to call have to agree with him - to call this have to agree with him - to call this the have to agree with him - to call this the Gang have to agree with him - to call this the Gang Legislation have to agree with him - to call this the Gang Legislation (Can have to agree with him - to call this the Gang Legislation (Can You this the Gang Legislation (Can You Find this the Gang Legislation (Can You Find Us this the Gang Legislation (Can You Find Us A this the Gang Legislation (Can You Find Us A Job? this the Gang Legislation (Can You Find Us A Job? ) this the Gang Legislation (Can You Find Us A Job? ) Bill? this the Gang Legislation (Can You Find Us A Job? ) Bill? That's this the Gang Legislation (Can You Find Us A Job? ) Bill? That's a Find Us A Job? ) Bill? That's a pretty Find Us A Job? ) Bill? That's a pretty good Find Us A Job? ) Bill? That's a pretty good suggestion Find Us A Job? ) Bill? That's a pretty good suggestion from Find Us A Job? ) Bill? That's a pretty good suggestion from someone pretty good suggestion from someone who's pretty good suggestion from someone who's working pretty good suggestion from someone who's working at pretty good suggestion from someone who's working at grassroots. pretty good suggestion from someone who's working at grassroots. And pretty good suggestion from someone who's working at grassroots. And his who's working at grassroots. And his story who's working at grassroots. And his story is who's working at grassroots. And his story is one who's working at grassroots. And his story is one of who's working at grassroots. And his story is one of redemption. who's working at grassroots. And his story is one of redemption. His story is one of redemption. His story story is one of redemption. His story is story is one of redemption. His story is one story is one of redemption. His story is one of story is one of redemption. His story is one of redemption. story is one of redemption. His story is one of redemption. And story is one of redemption. His story is one of redemption. And you story is one of redemption. And you can story is one of redemption. And you can Google story is one of redemption. And you can Google his story is one of redemption. And you can Google his story story is one of redemption. And you can Google his story and story is one of redemption. And you can Google his story and you'll story is one of redemption. And you can Google his story and you'll see can Google his story and you'll see that can Google his story and you'll see that this can Google his story and you'll see that this guy can Google his story and you'll see that this guy has can Google his story and you'll see that this guy has gone can Google his story and you'll see that this guy has gone through can Google his story and you'll see that this guy has gone through the that this guy has gone through the system that this guy has gone through the system - that this guy has gone through the system - gang that this guy has gone through the system - gang boss, that this guy has gone through the system - gang boss, everything. that this guy has gone through the system - gang boss, everything. Now, system - gang boss, everything. Now, he's system - gang boss, everything. Now, he's working system - gang boss, everything. Now, he's working on system - gang boss, everything. Now, he's working on our system - gang boss, everything. Now, he's working on our committees, system - gang boss, everything. Now, he's working on our committees, on he's working on our committees, on our he's working on our committees, on our maraes he's working on our committees, on our maraes at he's working on our committees, on our maraes at Nga he's working on our committees, on our maraes at Nga Whare he's working on our committees, on our maraes at Nga Whare Watiea, our maraes at Nga Whare Watiea, working our maraes at Nga Whare Watiea, working with our maraes at Nga Whare Watiea, working with young our maraes at Nga Whare Watiea, working with young people, our maraes at Nga Whare Watiea, working with young people, getting working with young people, getting patches working with young people, getting patches off working with young people, getting patches off gangsters. working with young people, getting patches off gangsters. Surely working with young people, getting patches off gangsters. Surely that's patches off gangsters. Surely that's what patches off gangsters. Surely that's what the patches off gangsters. Surely that's what the - patches off gangsters. Surely that's what the - does patches off gangsters. Surely that's what the - does the patches off gangsters. Surely that's what the - does the Government patches off gangsters. Surely that's what the - does the Government not what the - does the Government not want what the - does the Government not want to what the - does the Government not want to hear what the - does the Government not want to hear these what the - does the Government not want to hear these stories? what the - does the Government not want to hear these stories? These want to hear these stories? These are want to hear these stories? These are beautiful want to hear these stories? These are beautiful stories: want to hear these stories? These are beautiful stories: I've want to hear these stories? These are beautiful stories: I've got want to hear these stories? These are beautiful stories: I've got a are beautiful stories: I've got a lot are beautiful stories: I've got a lot of are beautiful stories: I've got a lot of them. are beautiful stories: I've got a lot of them. I are beautiful stories: I've got a lot of them. I can are beautiful stories: I've got a lot of them. I can keep are beautiful stories: I've got a lot of them. I can keep going are beautiful stories: I've got a lot of them. I can keep going to lot of them. I can keep going to 6:00, lot of them. I can keep going to 6:00, Mr lot of them. I can keep going to 6:00, Mr Chair... lot of them. I can keep going to 6:00, Mr Chair... As lot of them. I can keep going to 6:00, Mr Chair... As they lot of them. I can keep going to 6:00, Mr Chair... As they relate lot of them. I can keep going to 6:00, Mr Chair... As they relate to 6:00, Mr Chair... As they relate to title 6:00, Mr Chair... As they relate to title and 6:00, Mr Chair... As they relate to title and commencement, 6:00, Mr Chair... As they relate to title and commencement, Mr title and commencement, Mr Jackson... title and commencement, Mr Jackson... Mr title and commencement, Mr Jackson... Mr Cooper's title and commencement, Mr Jackson... Mr Cooper's saying title and commencement, Mr Jackson... Mr Cooper's saying the Jackson... Mr Cooper's saying the title Jackson... Mr Cooper's saying the title is Jackson... Mr Cooper's saying the title is misnamed. Jackson... Mr Cooper's saying the title is misnamed. That's Jackson... Mr Cooper's saying the title is misnamed. That's all Jackson... Mr Cooper's saying the title is misnamed. That's all I'm title is misnamed. That's all I'm trying title is misnamed. That's all I'm trying to title is misnamed. That's all I'm trying to say title is misnamed. That's all I'm trying to say here. title is misnamed. That's all I'm trying to say here. The title is misnamed. That's all I'm trying to say here. The title title is misnamed. That's all I'm trying to say here. The title is trying to say here. The title is misnamed. trying to say here. The title is misnamed. He trying to say here. The title is misnamed. He wants trying to say here. The title is misnamed. He wants work. trying to say here. The title is misnamed. He wants work. So, trying to say here. The title is misnamed. He wants work. So, why misnamed. He wants work. So, why wouldn't misnamed. He wants work. So, why wouldn't you misnamed. He wants work. So, why wouldn't you include misnamed. He wants work. So, why wouldn't you include - misnamed. He wants work. So, why wouldn't you include - this misnamed. He wants work. So, why wouldn't you include - this is misnamed. He wants work. So, why wouldn't you include - this is the wouldn't you include - this is the Gang wouldn't you include - this is the Gang (We wouldn't you include - this is the Gang (We Want wouldn't you include - this is the Gang (We Want Work) wouldn't you include - this is the Gang (We Want Work) Amendment wouldn't you include - this is the Gang (We Want Work) Amendment Bill. Gang (We Want Work) Amendment Bill. That's Gang (We Want Work) Amendment Bill. That's all Gang (We Want Work) Amendment Bill. That's all he's Gang (We Want Work) Amendment Bill. That's all he's saying. Gang (We Want Work) Amendment Bill. That's all he's saying. He's Gang (We Want Work) Amendment Bill. That's all he's saying. He's not Gang (We Want Work) Amendment Bill. That's all he's saying. He's not a That's all he's saying. He's not a supporter That's all he's saying. He's not a supporter of That's all he's saying. He's not a supporter of the That's all he's saying. He's not a supporter of the young That's all he's saying. He's not a supporter of the young people That's all he's saying. He's not a supporter of the young people going supporter of the young people going into supporter of the young people going into gangs. supporter of the young people going into gangs. He's supporter of the young people going into gangs. He's a supporter of the young people going into gangs. He's a supporter supporter of the young people going into gangs. He's a supporter of into gangs. He's a supporter of getting into gangs. He's a supporter of getting them into gangs. He's a supporter of getting them busy, into gangs. He's a supporter of getting them busy, getting into gangs. He's a supporter of getting them busy, getting them getting them busy, getting them activated, getting them busy, getting them activated, getting getting them busy, getting them activated, getting them activated, getting them rehabilitated, activated, getting them rehabilitated, getting activated, getting them rehabilitated, getting them activated, getting them rehabilitated, getting them to activated, getting them rehabilitated, getting them to be rehabilitated, getting them to be productive, rehabilitated, getting them to be productive, so rehabilitated, getting them to be productive, so that rehabilitated, getting them to be productive, so that our rehabilitated, getting them to be productive, so that our communities productive, so that our communities will productive, so that our communities will be productive, so that our communities will be safe, productive, so that our communities will be safe, Mr productive, so that our communities will be safe, Mr Chair. productive, so that our communities will be safe, Mr Chair. This productive, so that our communities will be safe, Mr Chair. This is productive, so that our communities will be safe, Mr Chair. This is what will be safe, Mr Chair. This is what the will be safe, Mr Chair. This is what the Government will be safe, Mr Chair. This is what the Government wants. will be safe, Mr Chair. This is what the Government wants. This will be safe, Mr Chair. This is what the Government wants. This is will be safe, Mr Chair. This is what the Government wants. This is what the Government wants. This is what we the Government wants. This is what we want. the Government wants. This is what we want. We're the Government wants. This is what we want. We're all the Government wants. This is what we want. We're all on the Government wants. This is what we want. We're all on the the Government wants. This is what we want. We're all on the same the Government wants. This is what we want. We're all on the same waka we want. We're all on the same waka here. we want. We're all on the same waka here. And we want. We're all on the same waka here. And they're we want. We're all on the same waka here. And they're going we want. We're all on the same waka here. And they're going to we want. We're all on the same waka here. And they're going to shut we want. We're all on the same waka here. And they're going to shut me here. And they're going to shut me down here. And they're going to shut me down here here. And they're going to shut me down here today. here. And they're going to shut me down here today. I here. And they're going to shut me down here today. I don't here. And they're going to shut me down here today. I don't get here. And they're going to shut me down here today. I don't get this. here. And they're going to shut me down here today. I don't get this. I down here today. I don't get this. I am down here today. I don't get this. I am trying down here today. I don't get this. I am trying to down here today. I don't get this. I am trying to contribute down here today. I don't get this. I am trying to contribute and down here today. I don't get this. I am trying to contribute and help, am trying to contribute and help, particularly, am trying to contribute and help, particularly, Mr am trying to contribute and help, particularly, Mr Meager am trying to contribute and help, particularly, Mr Meager - am trying to contribute and help, particularly, Mr Meager - he's am trying to contribute and help, particularly, Mr Meager - he's done particularly, Mr Meager - he's done a particularly, Mr Meager - he's done a wonderful particularly, Mr Meager - he's done a wonderful job particularly, Mr Meager - he's done a wonderful job chairing particularly, Mr Meager - he's done a wonderful job chairing the a wonderful job chairing the committee, a wonderful job chairing the committee, I'm a wonderful job chairing the committee, I'm trying a wonderful job chairing the committee, I'm trying to a wonderful job chairing the committee, I'm trying to help a wonderful job chairing the committee, I'm trying to help him committee, I'm trying to help him along, committee, I'm trying to help him along, trying committee, I'm trying to help him along, trying to committee, I'm trying to help him along, trying to help committee, I'm trying to help him along, trying to help the committee, I'm trying to help him along, trying to help the Government along, trying to help the Government along, along, trying to help the Government along, and along, trying to help the Government along, and all along, trying to help the Government along, and all I'm along, trying to help the Government along, and all I'm getting along, trying to help the Government along, and all I'm getting is along, and all I'm getting is insults along, and all I'm getting is insults from along, and all I'm getting is insults from the along, and all I'm getting is insults from the other along, and all I'm getting is insults from the other side. When When I When I talk When I talk about When I talk about someone When I talk about someone like, When I talk about someone like, these When I talk about someone like, these are When I talk about someone like, these are real When I talk about someone like, these are real people. When I talk about someone like, these are real people. These When I talk about someone like, these are real people. These people these are real people. These people wouldn't these are real people. These people wouldn't know these are real people. These people wouldn't know gang these are real people. These people wouldn't know gang members these are real people. These people wouldn't know gang members if these are real people. These people wouldn't know gang members if they wouldn't know gang members if they fell wouldn't know gang members if they fell over wouldn't know gang members if they fell over there. wouldn't know gang members if they fell over there. We wouldn't know gang members if they fell over there. We worked wouldn't know gang members if they fell over there. We worked with fell over there. We worked with them. fell over there. We worked with them. On fell over there. We worked with them. On our fell over there. We worked with them. On our marae, fell over there. We worked with them. On our marae, which fell over there. We worked with them. On our marae, which the them. On our marae, which the Government them. On our marae, which the Government funds, them. On our marae, which the Government funds, can them. On our marae, which the Government funds, can I them. On our marae, which the Government funds, can I be them. On our marae, which the Government funds, can I be very Government funds, can I be very clear Government funds, can I be very clear - Government funds, can I be very clear - funds Government funds, can I be very clear - funds our Government funds, can I be very clear - funds our marae, Government funds, can I be very clear - funds our marae, and Government funds, can I be very clear - funds our marae, and they clear - funds our marae, and they are clear - funds our marae, and they are all clear - funds our marae, and they are all very clear - funds our marae, and they are all very welcome clear - funds our marae, and they are all very welcome to clear - funds our marae, and they are all very welcome to come clear - funds our marae, and they are all very welcome to come to clear - funds our marae, and they are all very welcome to come to the are all very welcome to come to the marae, are all very welcome to come to the marae, Mr are all very welcome to come to the marae, Mr Chair. are all very welcome to come to the marae, Mr Chair. I've are all very welcome to come to the marae, Mr Chair. I've got are all very welcome to come to the marae, Mr Chair. I've got an are all very welcome to come to the marae, Mr Chair. I've got an open marae, Mr Chair. I've got an open invitation marae, Mr Chair. I've got an open invitation to marae, Mr Chair. I've got an open invitation to the marae, Mr Chair. I've got an open invitation to the Government marae, Mr Chair. I've got an open invitation to the Government to marae, Mr Chair. I've got an open invitation to the Government to come invitation to the Government to come to invitation to the Government to come to our invitation to the Government to come to our marae, invitation to the Government to come to our marae, they invitation to the Government to come to our marae, they will invitation to the Government to come to our marae, they will see invitation to the Government to come to our marae, they will see first to our marae, they will see first hand to our marae, they will see first hand how to our marae, they will see first hand how a to our marae, they will see first hand how a community to our marae, they will see first hand how a community deals to our marae, they will see first hand how a community deals with to our marae, they will see first hand how a community deals with some hand how a community deals with some of hand how a community deals with some of these hand how a community deals with some of these gang hand how a community deals with some of these gang members. hand how a community deals with some of these gang members. members. hand how a community deals with some of these gang members. members. I of these gang members. members. I can of these gang members. members. I can -- of these gang members. members. I can -- ex-gang of these gang members. members. I can -- ex-gang members, of these gang members. members. I can -- ex-gang members, it's of these gang members. members. I can -- ex-gang members, it's not of these gang members. members. I can -- ex-gang members, it's not a can -- ex-gang members, it's not a soft can -- ex-gang members, it's not a soft hand can -- ex-gang members, it's not a soft hand given. can -- ex-gang members, it's not a soft hand given. My can -- ex-gang members, it's not a soft hand given. My mother, can -- ex-gang members, it's not a soft hand given. My mother, Mr soft hand given. My mother, Mr Chair, soft hand given. My mother, Mr Chair, 20 soft hand given. My mother, Mr Chair, 20 years soft hand given. My mother, Mr Chair, 20 years on soft hand given. My mother, Mr Chair, 20 years on the soft hand given. My mother, Mr Chair, 20 years on the parole soft hand given. My mother, Mr Chair, 20 years on the parole board, Chair, 20 years on the parole board, they Chair, 20 years on the parole board, they used Chair, 20 years on the parole board, they used to Chair, 20 years on the parole board, they used to hide Chair, 20 years on the parole board, they used to hide from Chair, 20 years on the parole board, they used to hide from her, Chair, 20 years on the parole board, they used to hide from her, some Chair, 20 years on the parole board, they used to hide from her, some of they used to hide from her, some of the they used to hide from her, some of the gang they used to hide from her, some of the gang members, they used to hide from her, some of the gang members, she they used to hide from her, some of the gang members, she was they used to hide from her, some of the gang members, she was so they used to hide from her, some of the gang members, she was so tough the gang members, she was so tough on the gang members, she was so tough on them. the gang members, she was so tough on them. There's the gang members, she was so tough on them. There's no the gang members, she was so tough on them. There's no softly-softly on them. There's no softly-softly approach on them. There's no softly-softly approach here. on them. There's no softly-softly approach here. If on them. There's no softly-softly approach here. If mum on them. There's no softly-softly approach here. If mum was on them. There's no softly-softly approach here. If mum was alive, on them. There's no softly-softly approach here. If mum was alive, she approach here. If mum was alive, she would approach here. If mum was alive, she would agree approach here. If mum was alive, she would agree with approach here. If mum was alive, she would agree with the approach here. If mum was alive, she would agree with the new approach here. If mum was alive, she would agree with the new title approach here. If mum was alive, she would agree with the new title on would agree with the new title on the would agree with the new title on the gang would agree with the new title on the gang legislation. would agree with the new title on the gang legislation. She would agree with the new title on the gang legislation. She would would agree with the new title on the gang legislation. She would say, the gang legislation. She would say, yes, the gang legislation. She would say, yes, find the gang legislation. She would say, yes, find them the gang legislation. She would say, yes, find them some the gang legislation. She would say, yes, find them some work, the gang legislation. She would say, yes, find them some work, son, the gang legislation. She would say, yes, find them some work, son, and yes, find them some work, son, and you'll yes, find them some work, son, and you'll get yes, find them some work, son, and you'll get them yes, find them some work, son, and you'll get them from yes, find them some work, son, and you'll get them from - yes, find them some work, son, and you'll get them from - you'll yes, find them some work, son, and you'll get them from - you'll stop you'll get them from - you'll stop them you'll get them from - you'll stop them from you'll get them from - you'll stop them from all you'll get them from - you'll stop them from all the you'll get them from - you'll stop them from all the nonsense you'll get them from - you'll stop them from all the nonsense they're them from all the nonsense they're doing. them from all the nonsense they're doing. But, them from all the nonsense they're doing. But, seriously, them from all the nonsense they're doing. But, seriously, if them from all the nonsense they're doing. But, seriously, if we doing. But, seriously, if we activate, doing. But, seriously, if we activate, motivate, doing. But, seriously, if we activate, motivate, get doing. But, seriously, if we activate, motivate, get these doing. But, seriously, if we activate, motivate, get these whanau activate, motivate, get these whanau involved, activate, motivate, get these whanau involved, we'll activate, motivate, get these whanau involved, we'll stop activate, motivate, get these whanau involved, we'll stop some activate, motivate, get these whanau involved, we'll stop some of activate, motivate, get these whanau involved, we'll stop some of this involved, we'll stop some of this nonsense involved, we'll stop some of this nonsense that's involved, we'll stop some of this nonsense that's happening involved, we'll stop some of this nonsense that's happening out involved, we'll stop some of this nonsense that's happening out in involved, we'll stop some of this nonsense that's happening out in our nonsense that's happening out in our communities. nonsense that's happening out in our communities. We nonsense that's happening out in our communities. We all nonsense that's happening out in our communities. We all want nonsense that's happening out in our communities. We all want the nonsense that's happening out in our communities. We all want the same communities. We all want the same thing, communities. We all want the same thing, Mr communities. We all want the same thing, Mr Chair. communities. We all want the same thing, Mr Chair. But communities. We all want the same thing, Mr Chair. But it's communities. We all want the same thing, Mr Chair. But it's not communities. We all want the same thing, Mr Chair. But it's not just thing, Mr Chair. But it's not just about thing, Mr Chair. But it's not just about taking thing, Mr Chair. But it's not just about taking patches thing, Mr Chair. But it's not just about taking patches off thing, Mr Chair. But it's not just about taking patches off the thing, Mr Chair. But it's not just about taking patches off the backs about taking patches off the backs of about taking patches off the backs of these about taking patches off the backs of these gangs. about taking patches off the backs of these gangs. It's about taking patches off the backs of these gangs. It's about about taking patches off the backs of these gangs. It's about working of these gangs. It's about working at of these gangs. It's about working at the of these gangs. It's about working at the coal of these gangs. It's about working at the coal face. of these gangs. It's about working at the coal face. It's of these gangs. It's about working at the coal face. It's about at the coal face. It's about dismantling at the coal face. It's about dismantling their at the coal face. It's about dismantling their assets. at the coal face. It's about dismantling their assets. It's at the coal face. It's about dismantling their assets. It's about dismantling their assets. It's about taking dismantling their assets. It's about taking away dismantling their assets. It's about taking away from dismantling their assets. It's about taking away from them dismantling their assets. It's about taking away from them what dismantling their assets. It's about taking away from them what is dismantling their assets. It's about taking away from them what is dear. taking away from them what is dear. Eugene taking away from them what is dear. Eugene Rider, taking away from them what is dear. Eugene Rider, you taking away from them what is dear. Eugene Rider, you take taking away from them what is dear. Eugene Rider, you take the taking away from them what is dear. Eugene Rider, you take the patches Eugene Rider, you take the patches off, Eugene Rider, you take the patches off, they'll Eugene Rider, you take the patches off, they'll wear Eugene Rider, you take the patches off, they'll wear colours. Eugene Rider, you take the patches off, they'll wear colours. It's Eugene Rider, you take the patches off, they'll wear colours. It's a off, they'll wear colours. It's a nonsensical off, they'll wear colours. It's a nonsensical legislation. off, they'll wear colours. It's a nonsensical legislation. Let's off, they'll wear colours. It's a nonsensical legislation. Let's work nonsensical legislation. Let's work together nonsensical legislation. Let's work together on nonsensical legislation. Let's work together on this. nonsensical legislation. Let's work together on this. Delay nonsensical legislation. Let's work together on this. Delay this nonsensical legislation. Let's work together on this. Delay this for together on this. Delay this for another together on this. Delay this for another 12 together on this. Delay this for another 12 months. together on this. Delay this for another 12 months. I'm together on this. Delay this for another 12 months. I'm going together on this. Delay this for another 12 months. I'm going to together on this. Delay this for another 12 months. I'm going to seek another 12 months. I'm going to seek the another 12 months. I'm going to seek the call another 12 months. I'm going to seek the call again, another 12 months. I'm going to seek the call again, Mr another 12 months. I'm going to seek the call again, Mr Chair. another 12 months. I'm going to seek the call again, Mr Chair. I another 12 months. I'm going to seek the call again, Mr Chair. I don't the call again, Mr Chair. I don't know the call again, Mr Chair. I don't know if the call again, Mr Chair. I don't know if I've the call again, Mr Chair. I don't know if I've quite the call again, Mr Chair. I don't know if I've quite reached the call again, Mr Chair. I don't know if I've quite reached the the call again, Mr Chair. I don't know if I've quite reached the point know if I've quite reached the point I know if I've quite reached the point I wanted know if I've quite reached the point I wanted to. know if I've quite reached the point I wanted to. But know if I've quite reached the point I wanted to. But I know if I've quite reached the point I wanted to. But I think know if I've quite reached the point I wanted to. But I think I'll know if I've quite reached the point I wanted to. But I think I'll get I wanted to. But I think I'll get there I wanted to. But I think I'll get there over I wanted to. But I think I'll get there over the I wanted to. But I think I'll get there over the next I wanted to. But I think I'll get there over the next 10 I wanted to. But I think I'll get there over the next 10 minutes I wanted to. But I think I'll get there over the next 10 minutes if there over the next 10 minutes if you there over the next 10 minutes if you give there over the next 10 minutes if you give me there over the next 10 minutes if you give me the there over the next 10 minutes if you give me the call there over the next 10 minutes if you give me the call again. there over the next 10 minutes if you give me the call again. But there over the next 10 minutes if you give me the call again. But Mr you give me the call again. But Mr Chair, you give me the call again. But Mr Chair, it's you give me the call again. But Mr Chair, it's about you give me the call again. But Mr Chair, it's about supporting you give me the call again. But Mr Chair, it's about supporting our Chair, it's about supporting our communities... Chair, it's about supporting our communities... <INTERRUPTION> communities... <INTERRUPTION> Supporting communities... <INTERRUPTION> Supporting our communities... <INTERRUPTION> Supporting our community. communities... <INTERRUPTION> Supporting our community. I communities... <INTERRUPTION> Supporting our community. I move Supporting our community. I move that Supporting our community. I move that debate Supporting our community. I move that debate on Supporting our community. I move that debate on this Supporting our community. I move that debate on this question Supporting our community. I move that debate on this question now that debate on this question now close. that debate on this question now close. The that debate on this question now close. The motion that debate on this question now close. The motion is that debate on this question now close. The motion is the that debate on this question now close. The motion is the debate that debate on this question now close. The motion is the debate on close. The motion is the debate on this close. The motion is the debate on this - close. The motion is the debate on this - this close. The motion is the debate on this - this bill close. The motion is the debate on this - this bill now close. The motion is the debate on this - this bill now close. close. The motion is the debate on this - this bill now close. All this - this bill now close. All those this - this bill now close. All those in this - this bill now close. All those in favour this - this bill now close. All those in favour say this - this bill now close. All those in favour say aye. this - this bill now close. All those in favour say aye. Those those in favour say aye. Those against those in favour say aye. Those against no. those in favour say aye. Those against no. The those in favour say aye. Those against no. The ayes those in favour say aye. Those against no. The ayes have those in favour say aye. Those against no. The ayes have it. those in favour say aye. Those against no. The ayes have it. Party against no. The ayes have it. Party vote against no. The ayes have it. Party vote is against no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called against no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. against no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The against no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk against no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? ACT Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? ACT New Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes opposed. 6 votes opposed. Darleen 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes are The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. The question The question is agreed. The question is The question is agreed. The question is that The question is agreed. The question is that Dr The question is agreed. The question is that Dr Lawrence The question is agreed. The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's The question is agreed. The question is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's tabled is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's tabled amendment is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's tabled amendment to is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's tabled amendment to clause is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's tabled amendment to clause 1 is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's tabled amendment to clause 1 be is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's tabled amendment to clause 1 be agreed is that Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan's tabled amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. All amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. All those amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. All those in amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. All those in favour amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. All those in favour say amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To amendment to clause 1 be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the All those in favour say aye. To the contrary All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The party All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The party vote All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The party vote is contrary no. The party vote is called contrary no. The party vote is called for. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes opposed. 49 votes opposed. New 49 votes opposed. New Zealand 49 votes opposed. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes in New Zealand Labour? 34 votes in favour. 34 votes in favour. Green 34 votes in favour. Green Party 34 votes in favour. Green Party of 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes in favour. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes in Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes in favour. 14 votes in favour. ACT 14 votes in favour. ACT New 14 votes in favour. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes opposed. 11 votes opposed. New 11 votes opposed. New Zealand 11 votes opposed. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes opposed. 8 votes opposed. Te 8 votes opposed. Te Paati 8 votes opposed. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes in Te Paati Maori? 6 votes in favour. 6 votes in favour. Darleen 6 votes in favour. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 in Darleen Tana? 1 in favour. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 55, The ayes are 55, the The ayes are 55, the noes The ayes are 55, the noes are The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The question The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The question is The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The question is not The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The question is not agreed. The ayes are 55, the noes are 68. The question is not agreed. The The question is not agreed. The question The question is not agreed. The question is The question is not agreed. The question is that The question is not agreed. The question is that clause The question is not agreed. The question is that clause 1 The question is not agreed. The question is that clause 1 stand question is that clause 1 stand part. question is that clause 1 stand part. All question is that clause 1 stand part. All those question is that clause 1 stand part. All those in question is that clause 1 stand part. All those in favour question is that clause 1 stand part. All those in favour say question is that clause 1 stand part. All those in favour say aye. part. All those in favour say aye. To part. All those in favour say aye. To the part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes part. All those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have To the contrary no. The ayes have it. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes in Te Paati Maori? 6 votes in favour. -- -- 6 -- 6 votes -- 6 votes opposed. -- 6 votes opposed. Darleen -- 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes are The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. The question The question is agreed. The question is The question is agreed. The question is that The question is agreed. The question is that clause The question is agreed. The question is that clause 2 The question is agreed. The question is that clause 2 stand The question is agreed. The question is that clause 2 stand part. The question is agreed. The question is that clause 2 stand part. All is that clause 2 stand part. All those is that clause 2 stand part. All those in is that clause 2 stand part. All those in favour is that clause 2 stand part. All those in favour say is that clause 2 stand part. All those in favour say aye. is that clause 2 stand part. All those in favour say aye. To is that clause 2 stand part. All those in favour say aye. To the those in favour say aye. To the contrary those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. 34 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes opposed. 6 votes opposed. Darleen 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes are The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. I I move I move amendment I move amendment paper I move amendment paper number I move amendment paper number 50 I move amendment paper number 50 dividing I move amendment paper number 50 dividing the I move amendment paper number 50 dividing the bill. I move amendment paper number 50 dividing the bill. The I move amendment paper number 50 dividing the bill. The question I move amendment paper number 50 dividing the bill. The question is dividing the bill. The question is that dividing the bill. The question is that the dividing the bill. The question is that the motion dividing the bill. The question is that the motion be dividing the bill. The question is that the motion be agreed dividing the bill. The question is that the motion be agreed to. dividing the bill. The question is that the motion be agreed to. All that the motion be agreed to. All those that the motion be agreed to. All those in that the motion be agreed to. All those in favour that the motion be agreed to. All those in favour say that the motion be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. that the motion be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To that the motion be agreed to. All those in favour say aye. To the those in favour say aye. To the contrary those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. those in favour say aye. To the contrary no. The ayes have it. Party contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk contrary no. The ayes have it. Party vote is called for. The Clerk will vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote is called for. The Clerk will conduct a party vote. New New Zealand New Zealand National? New Zealand National? 49 New Zealand National? 49 votes New Zealand National? 49 votes in New Zealand National? 49 votes in favour. 49 votes in favour. New 49 votes in favour. New Zealand 49 votes in favour. New Zealand Labour? New Zealand Labour? 34 New Zealand Labour? 34 votes New Zealand Labour? 34 votes opposed. 34 votes opposed. Green 34 votes opposed. Green Party 34 votes opposed. Green Party of 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New 34 votes opposed. Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand? 14 votes opposed. 14 votes opposed. ACT 14 votes opposed. ACT New 14 votes opposed. ACT New Zealand? ACT New Zealand? 11 ACT New Zealand? 11 votes ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in ACT New Zealand? 11 votes in favour. 11 votes in favour. New 11 votes in favour. New Zealand 11 votes in favour. New Zealand First? New Zealand First? 8 New Zealand First? 8 votes New Zealand First? 8 votes in New Zealand First? 8 votes in favour. 8 votes in favour. Te 8 votes in favour. Te Paati 8 votes in favour. Te Paati Maori? Te Paati Maori? 6 Te Paati Maori? 6 votes Te Paati Maori? 6 votes opposed. 6 votes opposed. Darleen 6 votes opposed. Darleen Tana? Darleen Tana? 1 Darleen Tana? 1 opposed. The The ayes The ayes are The ayes are 68, The ayes are 68, the The ayes are 68, the noes The ayes are 68, the noes are The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. I The ayes are 68, the noes are 55. The question is agreed. I will The question is agreed. I will report The question is agreed. I will report this The question is agreed. I will report this bill The question is agreed. I will report this bill with The question is agreed. I will report this bill with amendment. The question is agreed. I will report this bill with amendment. And report this bill with amendment. And so report this bill with amendment. And so divide report this bill with amendment. And so divide it. so divide it. Members, so divide it. so so divide it. Members, we come so divide it. Members, we come to so divide it. Members, we come to the so divide it. Members, we come to the Local Members, we come to the Local Government Members, we come to the Local Government (Water Members, we come to the Local Government (Water Services Government (Water Services Preliminary Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. When Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. When we Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. When we were Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. When we were last Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. When we were last considering Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. When we were last considering the Preliminary Arrangements) Bill. When we were last considering the bill, we were last considering the bill, we we were last considering the bill, we were we were last considering the bill, we were debating we were last considering the bill, we were debating part we were last considering the bill, we were debating part 2. we were last considering the bill, we were debating part 2. This we were last considering the bill, we were debating part 2. This is we were last considering the bill, we were debating part 2. This is the we were debating part 2. This is the debate we were debating part 2. This is the debate on we were debating part 2. This is the debate on clauses we were debating part 2. This is the debate on clauses 8 we were debating part 2. This is the debate on clauses 8 to we were debating part 2. This is the debate on clauses 8 to 46b, we were debating part 2. This is the debate on clauses 8 to 46b, water debate on clauses 8 to 46b, water service debate on clauses 8 to 46b, water service delivery debate on clauses 8 to 46b, water service delivery plans debate on clauses 8 to 46b, water service delivery plans and service delivery plans and foundational service delivery plans and foundational information service delivery plans and foundational information disclosure foundational information disclosure requirements. foundational information disclosure requirements. Hon foundational information disclosure requirements. Hon Deborah foundational information disclosure requirements. Hon Deborah Russell. requirements. Hon Deborah Russell. Thank requirements. Hon Deborah Russell. Thank you requirements. Hon Deborah Russell. Thank you very requirements. Hon Deborah Russell. Thank you very much, requirements. Hon Deborah Russell. Thank you very much, Mr requirements. Hon Deborah Russell. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. requirements. Hon Deborah Russell. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Chair, Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Chair, just Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Chair, just a Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Chair, just a reminder Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Chair, just a reminder of Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Chair, just a reminder of what Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Mr Chair, just a reminder of what we Chair, just a reminder of what we were Chair, just a reminder of what we were doing Chair, just a reminder of what we were doing in Chair, just a reminder of what we were doing in terms Chair, just a reminder of what we were doing in terms of Chair, just a reminder of what we were doing in terms of working were doing in terms of working through were doing in terms of working through the were doing in terms of working through the committee were doing in terms of working through the committee stage were doing in terms of working through the committee stage of were doing in terms of working through the committee stage of this through the committee stage of this bill. through the committee stage of this bill. We through the committee stage of this bill. We were through the committee stage of this bill. We were going through the committee stage of this bill. We were going part through the committee stage of this bill. We were going part by through the committee stage of this bill. We were going part by part. bill. We were going part by part. But bill. We were going part by part. But in bill. We were going part by part. But in actual bill. We were going part by part. But in actual fact, bill. We were going part by part. But in actual fact, there's bill. We were going part by part. But in actual fact, there's three But in actual fact, there's three quite But in actual fact, there's three quite substantive But in actual fact, there's three quite substantive subparts But in actual fact, there's three quite substantive subparts to But in actual fact, there's three quite substantive subparts to part But in actual fact, there's three quite substantive subparts to part 2 quite substantive subparts to part 2 of quite substantive subparts to part 2 of the quite substantive subparts to part 2 of the bill. quite substantive subparts to part 2 of the bill. We quite substantive subparts to part 2 of the bill. We had quite substantive subparts to part 2 of the bill. We had worked quite substantive subparts to part 2 of the bill. We had worked our quite substantive subparts to part 2 of the bill. We had worked our way of the bill. We had worked our way through of the bill. We had worked our way through - of the bill. We had worked our way through - part of the bill. We had worked our way through - part 1. of the bill. We had worked our way through - part 1. And of the bill. We had worked our way through - part 1. And we of the bill. We had worked our way through - part 1. And we - of the bill. We had worked our way through - part 1. And we - when of the bill. We had worked our way through - part 1. And we - when the through - part 1. And we - when the debate through - part 1. And we - when the debate last through - part 1. And we - when the debate last closed through - part 1. And we - when the debate last closed on through - part 1. And we - when the debate last closed on this, through - part 1. And we - when the debate last closed on this, we through - part 1. And we - when the debate last closed on this, we were debate last closed on this, we were making debate last closed on this, we were making our debate last closed on this, we were making our way debate last closed on this, we were making our way through debate last closed on this, we were making our way through part debate last closed on this, we were making our way through part 2. debate last closed on this, we were making our way through part 2. So making our way through part 2. So subpart making our way through part 2. So subpart 2 making our way through part 2. So subpart 2 of making our way through part 2. So subpart 2 of part making our way through part 2. So subpart 2 of part 2. making our way through part 2. So subpart 2 of part 2. So, making our way through part 2. So subpart 2 of part 2. So, we making our way through part 2. So subpart 2 of part 2. So, we haven't subpart 2 of part 2. So, we haven't yet subpart 2 of part 2. So, we haven't yet even subpart 2 of part 2. So, we haven't yet even begun subpart 2 of part 2. So, we haven't yet even begun to subpart 2 of part 2. So, we haven't yet even begun to address subpart 2 of part 2. So, we haven't yet even begun to address any subpart 2 of part 2. So, we haven't yet even begun to address any part yet even begun to address any part of yet even begun to address any part of subpart yet even begun to address any part of subpart 3 yet even begun to address any part of subpart 3 of yet even begun to address any part of subpart 3 of part yet even begun to address any part of subpart 3 of part 2, yet even begun to address any part of subpart 3 of part 2, and yet even begun to address any part of subpart 3 of part 2, and indeed, of subpart 3 of part 2, and indeed, we of subpart 3 of part 2, and indeed, we have of subpart 3 of part 2, and indeed, we have quite of subpart 3 of part 2, and indeed, we have quite a of subpart 3 of part 2, and indeed, we have quite a few of subpart 3 of part 2, and indeed, we have quite a few questions of subpart 3 of part 2, and indeed, we have quite a few questions left. we have quite a few questions left. And we have quite a few questions left. And issues we have quite a few questions left. And issues to we have quite a few questions left. And issues to discuss we have quite a few questions left. And issues to discuss relating we have quite a few questions left. And issues to discuss relating to And issues to discuss relating to subpart And issues to discuss relating to subpart 2 And issues to discuss relating to subpart 2 of And issues to discuss relating to subpart 2 of part And issues to discuss relating to subpart 2 of part 2. And issues to discuss relating to subpart 2 of part 2. And And issues to discuss relating to subpart 2 of part 2. And just And issues to discuss relating to subpart 2 of part 2. And just as And issues to discuss relating to subpart 2 of part 2. And just as a subpart 2 of part 2. And just as a reminder, subpart 2 of part 2. And just as a reminder, subpart subpart 2 of part 2. And just as a reminder, subpart 2 subpart 2 of part 2. And just as a reminder, subpart 2 of subpart 2 of part 2. And just as a reminder, subpart 2 of part subpart 2 of part 2. And just as a reminder, subpart 2 of part 2, subpart 2 of part 2. And just as a reminder, subpart 2 of part 2, it reminder, subpart 2 of part 2, it exercises reminder, subpart 2 of part 2, it exercises itself reminder, subpart 2 of part 2, it exercises itself with reminder, subpart 2 of part 2, it exercises itself with what reminder, subpart 2 of part 2, it exercises itself with what the exercises itself with what the ministers exercises itself with what the ministers can exercises itself with what the ministers can do, exercises itself with what the ministers can do, what exercises itself with what the ministers can do, what the exercises itself with what the ministers can do, what the minister ministers can do, what the minister can ministers can do, what the minister can do ministers can do, what the minister can do in ministers can do, what the minister can do in relation ministers can do, what the minister can do in relation to ministers can do, what the minister can do in relation to water ministers can do, what the minister can do in relation to water services can do in relation to water services delivery can do in relation to water services delivery plans. can do in relation to water services delivery plans. So, can do in relation to water services delivery plans. So, specifically delivery plans. So, specifically about delivery plans. So, specifically about those delivery plans. So, specifically about those ministerial delivery plans. So, specifically about those ministerial powers. delivery plans. So, specifically about those ministerial powers. Now, about those ministerial powers. Now, we about those ministerial powers. Now, we had about those ministerial powers. Now, we had just about those ministerial powers. Now, we had just started about those ministerial powers. Now, we had just started discussing about those ministerial powers. Now, we had just started discussing it. we had just started discussing it. We we had just started discussing it. We had we had just started discussing it. We had just we had just started discussing it. We had just a we had just started discussing it. We had just a very we had just started discussing it. We had just a very few we had just started discussing it. We had just a very few speeches we had just started discussing it. We had just a very few speeches on We had just a very few speeches on it. We had just a very few speeches on it. And We had just a very few speeches on it. And there We had just a very few speeches on it. And there is We had just a very few speeches on it. And there is a We had just a very few speeches on it. And there is a particular We had just a very few speeches on it. And there is a particular issue it. And there is a particular issue I it. And there is a particular issue I want it. And there is a particular issue I want to it. And there is a particular issue I want to bring it. And there is a particular issue I want to bring up it. And there is a particular issue I want to bring up fairly it. And there is a particular issue I want to bring up fairly early it. And there is a particular issue I want to bring up fairly early on, I want to bring up fairly early on, and I want to bring up fairly early on, and it's I want to bring up fairly early on, and it's a I want to bring up fairly early on, and it's a point I want to bring up fairly early on, and it's a point of I want to bring up fairly early on, and it's a point of contrast I want to bring up fairly early on, and it's a point of contrast within and it's a point of contrast within subpart and it's a point of contrast within subpart 2 and it's a point of contrast within subpart 2 of and it's a point of contrast within subpart 2 of part and it's a point of contrast within subpart 2 of part 2. and it's a point of contrast within subpart 2 of part 2. Because, subpart 2 of part 2. Because, subpart subpart 2 of part 2. Because, subpart 2 subpart 2 of part 2. Because, subpart 2 of subpart 2 of part 2. Because, subpart 2 of part subpart 2 of part 2. Because, subpart 2 of part 2 subpart 2 of part 2. Because, subpart 2 of part 2 gives subpart 2 of part 2. Because, subpart 2 of part 2 gives the subpart 2 of part 2 gives the minister subpart 2 of part 2 gives the minister the subpart 2 of part 2 gives the minister the power subpart 2 of part 2 gives the minister the power to subpart 2 of part 2 gives the minister the power to do subpart 2 of part 2 gives the minister the power to do a subpart 2 of part 2 gives the minister the power to do a couple subpart 2 of part 2 gives the minister the power to do a couple of minister the power to do a couple of things. minister the power to do a couple of things. And, minister the power to do a couple of things. And, you minister the power to do a couple of things. And, you know, minister the power to do a couple of things. And, you know, very minister the power to do a couple of things. And, you know, very specific things. And, you know, very specific powers things. And, you know, very specific powers the things. And, you know, very specific powers the minister things. And, you know, very specific powers the minister can things. And, you know, very specific powers the minister can exercise. powers the minister can exercise. And, powers the minister can exercise. And, she powers the minister can exercise. And, she or powers the minister can exercise. And, she or he powers the minister can exercise. And, she or he can powers the minister can exercise. And, she or he can appoint, powers the minister can exercise. And, she or he can appoint, under... And, she or he can appoint, under... And, she or he can appoint, under... ..clause And, she or he can appoint, under... ..clause 20 And, she or he can appoint, under... ..clause 20 - And, she or he can appoint, under... ..clause 20 - may And, she or he can appoint, under... ..clause 20 - may appoint And, she or he can appoint, under... ..clause 20 - may appoint a And, she or he can appoint, under... ..clause 20 - may appoint a Crown ..clause 20 - may appoint a Crown facilitator. ..clause 20 - may appoint a Crown facilitator. And ..clause 20 - may appoint a Crown facilitator. And under ..clause 20 - may appoint a Crown facilitator. And under clause ..clause 20 - may appoint a Crown facilitator. And under clause 23, ..clause 20 - may appoint a Crown facilitator. And under clause 23, he facilitator. And under clause 23, he or facilitator. And under clause 23, he or she facilitator. And under clause 23, he or she may facilitator. And under clause 23, he or she may appoint facilitator. And under clause 23, he or she may appoint a facilitator. And under clause 23, he or she may appoint a Crown facilitator. And under clause 23, he or she may appoint a Crown water or she may appoint a Crown water services or she may appoint a Crown water services specialist. or she may appoint a Crown water services specialist. So, or she may appoint a Crown water services specialist. So, there's or she may appoint a Crown water services specialist. So, there's two services specialist. So, there's two types services specialist. So, there's two types of services specialist. So, there's two types of roles services specialist. So, there's two types of roles to services specialist. So, there's two types of roles to which services specialist. So, there's two types of roles to which the services specialist. So, there's two types of roles to which the minister types of roles to which the minister can types of roles to which the minister can appoint types of roles to which the minister can appoint people. types of roles to which the minister can appoint people. And, types of roles to which the minister can appoint people. And, to types of roles to which the minister can appoint people. And, to be can appoint people. And, to be honest, can appoint people. And, to be honest, in can appoint people. And, to be honest, in terms can appoint people. And, to be honest, in terms of can appoint people. And, to be honest, in terms of what can appoint people. And, to be honest, in terms of what these honest, in terms of what these people honest, in terms of what these people can honest, in terms of what these people can do, honest, in terms of what these people can do, they honest, in terms of what these people can do, they do honest, in terms of what these people can do, they do seem honest, in terms of what these people can do, they do seem to honest, in terms of what these people can do, they do seem to cross people can do, they do seem to cross over people can do, they do seem to cross over in people can do, they do seem to cross over in quite people can do, they do seem to cross over in quite some people can do, they do seem to cross over in quite some degree people can do, they do seem to cross over in quite some degree as people can do, they do seem to cross over in quite some degree as to people can do, they do seem to cross over in quite some degree as to what over in quite some degree as to what a over in quite some degree as to what a Crown over in quite some degree as to what a Crown facilitator over in quite some degree as to what a Crown facilitator can over in quite some degree as to what a Crown facilitator can do, over in quite some degree as to what a Crown facilitator can do, versus a Crown facilitator can do, versus what a Crown facilitator can do, versus what a a Crown facilitator can do, versus what a Crown a Crown facilitator can do, versus what a Crown water a Crown facilitator can do, versus what a Crown water specialist a Crown facilitator can do, versus what a Crown water specialist can what a Crown water specialist can do. what a Crown water specialist can do. It's what a Crown water specialist can do. It's not what a Crown water specialist can do. It's not even what a Crown water specialist can do. It's not even necessarily do. It's not even necessarily particularly do. It's not even necessarily particularly clear do. It's not even necessarily particularly clear in do. It's not even necessarily particularly clear in which particularly clear in which circumstances particularly clear in which circumstances a particularly clear in which circumstances a minister particularly clear in which circumstances a minister would circumstances a minister would appoint circumstances a minister would appoint a circumstances a minister would appoint a Crown circumstances a minister would appoint a Crown facilitiater circumstances a minister would appoint a Crown facilitiater versus appoint a Crown facilitiater versus when appoint a Crown facilitiater versus when he appoint a Crown facilitiater versus when he or appoint a Crown facilitiater versus when he or she appoint a Crown facilitiater versus when he or she would appoint a Crown facilitiater versus when he or she would appoint appoint a Crown facilitiater versus when he or she would appoint a appoint a Crown facilitiater versus when he or she would appoint a Crown when he or she would appoint a Crown water when he or she would appoint a Crown water services when he or she would appoint a Crown water services specialist. when he or she would appoint a Crown water services specialist. For when he or she would appoint a Crown water services specialist. For the water services specialist. For the benefit water services specialist. For the benefit of water services specialist. For the benefit of the water services specialist. For the benefit of the many water services specialist. For the benefit of the many people water services specialist. For the benefit of the many people following benefit of the many people following at benefit of the many people following at home, benefit of the many people following at home, at benefit of the many people following at home, at 20 benefit of the many people following at home, at 20 to benefit of the many people following at home, at 20 to 6 benefit of the many people following at home, at 20 to 6 on benefit of the many people following at home, at 20 to 6 on a benefit of the many people following at home, at 20 to 6 on a Thursday at home, at 20 to 6 on a Thursday evening, at home, at 20 to 6 on a Thursday evening, plenty at home, at 20 to 6 on a Thursday evening, plenty of at home, at 20 to 6 on a Thursday evening, plenty of people at home, at 20 to 6 on a Thursday evening, plenty of people following evening, plenty of people following it evening, plenty of people following it along, evening, plenty of people following it along, I evening, plenty of people following it along, I should evening, plenty of people following it along, I should think, evening, plenty of people following it along, I should think, and evening, plenty of people following it along, I should think, and for it along, I should think, and for the it along, I should think, and for the benefit it along, I should think, and for the benefit of it along, I should think, and for the benefit of everyone it along, I should think, and for the benefit of everyone who it along, I should think, and for the benefit of everyone who will the benefit of everyone who will want the benefit of everyone who will want to the benefit of everyone who will want to understand the benefit of everyone who will want to understand the the benefit of everyone who will want to understand the differences want to understand the differences between want to understand the differences between these want to understand the differences between these two want to understand the differences between these two roles, want to understand the differences between these two roles, and want to understand the differences between these two roles, and also want to understand the differences between these two roles, and also in between these two roles, and also in terms between these two roles, and also in terms of between these two roles, and also in terms of making between these two roles, and also in terms of making sure between these two roles, and also in terms of making sure it's between these two roles, and also in terms of making sure it's in between these two roles, and also in terms of making sure it's in the terms of making sure it's in the Hansard, terms of making sure it's in the Hansard, again, terms of making sure it's in the Hansard, again, it's terms of making sure it's in the Hansard, again, it's possible terms of making sure it's in the Hansard, again, it's possible this Hansard, again, it's possible this could Hansard, again, it's possible this could be Hansard, again, it's possible this could be litigated Hansard, again, it's possible this could be litigated at Hansard, again, it's possible this could be litigated at some Hansard, again, it's possible this could be litigated at some stage Hansard, again, it's possible this could be litigated at some stage - could be litigated at some stage - and could be litigated at some stage - and one could be litigated at some stage - and one point could be litigated at some stage - and one point of could be litigated at some stage - and one point of litigation could be litigated at some stage - and one point of litigation might could be litigated at some stage - and one point of litigation might be and one point of litigation might be whether and one point of litigation might be whether it and one point of litigation might be whether it was and one point of litigation might be whether it was appropriate and one point of litigation might be whether it was appropriate to whether it was appropriate to appoint whether it was appropriate to appoint a whether it was appropriate to appoint a Crown whether it was appropriate to appoint a Crown facilitator whether it was appropriate to appoint a Crown facilitator versus whether it was appropriate to appoint a Crown facilitator versus a appoint a Crown facilitator versus a Crown appoint a Crown facilitator versus a Crown water appoint a Crown facilitator versus a Crown water services appoint a Crown facilitator versus a Crown water services specialist. Crown water services specialist. There's Crown water services specialist. There's a Crown water services specialist. There's a couple Crown water services specialist. There's a couple of Crown water services specialist. There's a couple of things Crown water services specialist. There's a couple of things I Crown water services specialist. There's a couple of things I would There's a couple of things I would like There's a couple of things I would like to There's a couple of things I would like to hear There's a couple of things I would like to hear from There's a couple of things I would like to hear from the There's a couple of things I would like to hear from the minister There's a couple of things I would like to hear from the minister in like to hear from the minister in this like to hear from the minister in this regard. like to hear from the minister in this regard. One like to hear from the minister in this regard. One is like to hear from the minister in this regard. One is the like to hear from the minister in this regard. One is the difference this regard. One is the difference between this regard. One is the difference between the this regard. One is the difference between the roles this regard. One is the difference between the roles of this regard. One is the difference between the roles of these this regard. One is the difference between the roles of these two between the roles of these two people. between the roles of these two people. I between the roles of these two people. I will between the roles of these two people. I will note between the roles of these two people. I will note the between the roles of these two people. I will note the person between the roles of these two people. I will note the person may people. I will note the person may be people. I will note the person may be a people. I will note the person may be a panel. people. I will note the person may be a panel. The people. I will note the person may be a panel. The bill people. I will note the person may be a panel. The bill does people. I will note the person may be a panel. The bill does explain people. I will note the person may be a panel. The bill does explain it be a panel. The bill does explain it could be a panel. The bill does explain it could be be a panel. The bill does explain it could be one be a panel. The bill does explain it could be one individual, be a panel. The bill does explain it could be one individual, but be a panel. The bill does explain it could be one individual, but it could be one individual, but it could could be one individual, but it could also could be one individual, but it could also be could be one individual, but it could also be a could be one individual, but it could also be a panel could be one individual, but it could also be a panel of could be one individual, but it could also be a panel of people. could be one individual, but it could also be a panel of people. And could also be a panel of people. And that's could also be a panel of people. And that's obviously could also be a panel of people. And that's obviously just could also be a panel of people. And that's obviously just a could also be a panel of people. And that's obviously just a decision could also be a panel of people. And that's obviously just a decision for that's obviously just a decision for the that's obviously just a decision for the minister that's obviously just a decision for the minister as that's obviously just a decision for the minister as well. that's obviously just a decision for the minister as well. But that's obviously just a decision for the minister as well. But what that's obviously just a decision for the minister as well. But what I the minister as well. But what I want the minister as well. But what I want to the minister as well. But what I want to understand the minister as well. But what I want to understand is the minister as well. But what I want to understand is the the minister as well. But what I want to understand is the difference want to understand is the difference between want to understand is the difference between the want to understand is the difference between the roles want to understand is the difference between the roles of want to understand is the difference between the roles of the want to understand is the difference between the roles of the facilitator between the roles of the facilitator and between the roles of the facilitator and the between the roles of the facilitator and the specialist. between the roles of the facilitator and the specialist. I'm between the roles of the facilitator and the specialist. I'm also between the roles of the facilitator and the specialist. I'm also trying and the specialist. I'm also trying to and the specialist. I'm also trying to understand and the specialist. I'm also trying to understand when and the specialist. I'm also trying to understand when the and the specialist. I'm also trying to understand when the minister to understand when the minister would to understand when the minister would appoint to understand when the minister would appoint those to understand when the minister would appoint those people. to understand when the minister would appoint those people. What would appoint those people. What would would appoint those people. What would make would appoint those people. What would make - would appoint those people. What would make - cause would appoint those people. What would make - cause the would appoint those people. What would make - cause the minister would appoint those people. What would make - cause the minister to would make - cause the minister to decide would make - cause the minister to decide on would make - cause the minister to decide on one would make - cause the minister to decide on one of would make - cause the minister to decide on one of these would make - cause the minister to decide on one of these roles would make - cause the minister to decide on one of these roles rather decide on one of these roles rather than decide on one of these roles rather than the decide on one of these roles rather than the others. decide on one of these roles rather than the others. Is decide on one of these roles rather than the others. Is it decide on one of these roles rather than the others. Is it a decide on one of these roles rather than the others. Is it a time decide on one of these roles rather than the others. Is it a time based than the others. Is it a time based thing? than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it - than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it - is than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it - is it than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it - is it - than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it - is it - as than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it - is it - as a than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it - is it - as a sort than the others. Is it a time based thing? Is it - is it - as a sort of thing? Is it - is it - as a sort of time thing? Is it - is it - as a sort of time during thing? Is it - is it - as a sort of time during the thing? Is it - is it - as a sort of time during the process thing? Is it - is it - as a sort of time during the process based thing? Is it - is it - as a sort of time during the process based thing. time during the process based thing. Is time during the process based thing. Is it time during the process based thing. Is it based time during the process based thing. Is it based on time during the process based thing. Is it based on the time during the process based thing. Is it based on the particular time during the process based thing. Is it based on the particular needs Is it based on the particular needs of Is it based on the particular needs of the Is it based on the particular needs of the underlying Is it based on the particular needs of the underlying regional of the underlying regional territorial of the underlying regional territorial authority? of the underlying regional territorial authority? What of the underlying regional territorial authority? What exactly territorial authority? What exactly is territorial authority? What exactly is - territorial authority? What exactly is - that territorial authority? What exactly is - that would territorial authority? What exactly is - that would drive territorial authority? What exactly is - that would drive that is - that would drive that difference is - that would drive that difference there. is - that would drive that difference there. And is - that would drive that difference there. And I is - that would drive that difference there. And I think is - that would drive that difference there. And I think it's difference there. And I think it's worth difference there. And I think it's worth getting difference there. And I think it's worth getting that difference there. And I think it's worth getting that on difference there. And I think it's worth getting that on the difference there. And I think it's worth getting that on the record difference there. And I think it's worth getting that on the record for worth getting that on the record for the worth getting that on the record for the Hansard worth getting that on the record for the Hansard so worth getting that on the record for the Hansard so we worth getting that on the record for the Hansard so we do worth getting that on the record for the Hansard so we do have worth getting that on the record for the Hansard so we do have an the Hansard so we do have an understanding the Hansard so we do have an understanding of the Hansard so we do have an understanding of it the Hansard so we do have an understanding of it recorded. the Hansard so we do have an understanding of it recorded. Who understanding of it recorded. Who knows, understanding of it recorded. Who knows, it understanding of it recorded. Who knows, it may understanding of it recorded. Who knows, it may prevent understanding of it recorded. Who knows, it may prevent future knows, it may prevent future litigation, knows, it may prevent future litigation, it knows, it may prevent future litigation, it may knows, it may prevent future litigation, it may not, knows, it may prevent future litigation, it may not, but knows, it may prevent future litigation, it may not, but it knows, it may prevent future litigation, it may not, but it would litigation, it may not, but it would give litigation, it may not, but it would give us litigation, it may not, but it would give us a litigation, it may not, but it would give us a good litigation, it may not, but it would give us a good explanation litigation, it may not, but it would give us a good explanation of litigation, it may not, but it would give us a good explanation of what's give us a good explanation of what's going give us a good explanation of what's going on. give us a good explanation of what's going on. Dr give us a good explanation of what's going on. Dr Lawrence give us a good explanation of what's going on. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. give us a good explanation of what's going on. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. So going on. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. So just going on. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. So just to going on. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. So just to reinforce going on. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. So just to reinforce what going on. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. So just to reinforce what the going on. Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. So just to reinforce what the previous just to reinforce what the previous speaker just to reinforce what the previous speaker has just to reinforce what the previous speaker has said, just to reinforce what the previous speaker has said, for just to reinforce what the previous speaker has said, for us, just to reinforce what the previous speaker has said, for us, we're just to reinforce what the previous speaker has said, for us, we're also speaker has said, for us, we're also currently speaker has said, for us, we're also currently on speaker has said, for us, we're also currently on part speaker has said, for us, we're also currently on part 2 speaker has said, for us, we're also currently on part 2 subpart speaker has said, for us, we're also currently on part 2 subpart 2 speaker has said, for us, we're also currently on part 2 subpart 2 out speaker has said, for us, we're also currently on part 2 subpart 2 out of currently on part 2 subpart 2 out of 3 currently on part 2 subpart 2 out of 3 subparts currently on part 2 subpart 2 out of 3 subparts for currently on part 2 subpart 2 out of 3 subparts for this currently on part 2 subpart 2 out of 3 subparts for this particular 3 subparts for this particular section. 3 subparts for this particular section. And 3 subparts for this particular section. And Mr, 3 subparts for this particular section. And Mr, -- 3 subparts for this particular section. And Mr, -- Mr 3 subparts for this particular section. And Mr, -- Mr Chair, 3 subparts for this particular section. And Mr, -- Mr Chair, in 3 subparts for this particular section. And Mr, -- Mr Chair, in the section. And Mr, -- Mr Chair, in the previous section. And Mr, -- Mr Chair, in the previous session, section. And Mr, -- Mr Chair, in the previous session, one section. And Mr, -- Mr Chair, in the previous session, one of section. And Mr, -- Mr Chair, in the previous session, one of my previous session, one of my colleagues previous session, one of my colleagues mentioned previous session, one of my colleagues mentioned around previous session, one of my colleagues mentioned around the colleagues mentioned around the criteria colleagues mentioned around the criteria for colleagues mentioned around the criteria for appointment colleagues mentioned around the criteria for appointment of colleagues mentioned around the criteria for appointment of the criteria for appointment of the Crown criteria for appointment of the Crown facilitator criteria for appointment of the Crown facilitator as criteria for appointment of the Crown facilitator as well criteria for appointment of the Crown facilitator as well as criteria for appointment of the Crown facilitator as well as the Crown facilitator as well as the Crown Crown facilitator as well as the Crown water Crown facilitator as well as the Crown water services Crown facilitator as well as the Crown water services specialist. Crown facilitator as well as the Crown water services specialist. But Crown water services specialist. But I Crown water services specialist. But I would Crown water services specialist. But I would like Crown water services specialist. But I would like to Crown water services specialist. But I would like to sort Crown water services specialist. But I would like to sort of Crown water services specialist. But I would like to sort of change Crown water services specialist. But I would like to sort of change the I would like to sort of change the focus I would like to sort of change the focus in I would like to sort of change the focus in a I would like to sort of change the focus in a slightly I would like to sort of change the focus in a slightly different I would like to sort of change the focus in a slightly different way. focus in a slightly different way. And focus in a slightly different way. And look focus in a slightly different way. And look at, focus in a slightly different way. And look at, in focus in a slightly different way. And look at, in this focus in a slightly different way. And look at, in this case, focus in a slightly different way. And look at, in this case, clause focus in a slightly different way. And look at, in this case, clause 20 And look at, in this case, clause 20 subclause And look at, in this case, clause 20 subclause 4, And look at, in this case, clause 20 subclause 4, which And look at, in this case, clause 20 subclause 4, which is And look at, in this case, clause 20 subclause 4, which is that And look at, in this case, clause 20 subclause 4, which is that - And look at, in this case, clause 20 subclause 4, which is that - when subclause 4, which is that - when we're subclause 4, which is that - when we're looking subclause 4, which is that - when we're looking at subclause 4, which is that - when we're looking at the subclause 4, which is that - when we're looking at the Crown we're looking at the Crown facilitator, we're looking at the Crown facilitator, they we're looking at the Crown facilitator, they can we're looking at the Crown facilitator, they can be we're looking at the Crown facilitator, they can be a we're looking at the Crown facilitator, they can be a singular facilitator, they can be a singular person, facilitator, they can be a singular person, according facilitator, they can be a singular person, according to facilitator, they can be a singular person, according to subclause facilitator, they can be a singular person, according to subclause 3 facilitator, they can be a singular person, according to subclause 3 of person, according to subclause 3 of clause person, according to subclause 3 of clause 20, person, according to subclause 3 of clause 20, it person, according to subclause 3 of clause 20, it can person, according to subclause 3 of clause 20, it can be person, according to subclause 3 of clause 20, it can be one person, according to subclause 3 of clause 20, it can be one person person, according to subclause 3 of clause 20, it can be one person or person, according to subclause 3 of clause 20, it can be one person or a clause 20, it can be one person or a panel clause 20, it can be one person or a panel of clause 20, it can be one person or a panel of two clause 20, it can be one person or a panel of two or clause 20, it can be one person or a panel of two or more clause 20, it can be one person or a panel of two or more people. clause 20, it can be one person or a panel of two or more people. If clause 20, it can be one person or a panel of two or more people. If it panel of two or more people. If it is panel of two or more people. If it is a panel of two or more people. If it is a panel panel of two or more people. If it is a panel of panel of two or more people. If it is a panel of two panel of two or more people. If it is a panel of two or panel of two or more people. If it is a panel of two or more panel of two or more people. If it is a panel of two or more people, is a panel of two or more people, the is a panel of two or more people, the minister is a panel of two or more people, the minister must is a panel of two or more people, the minister must appoint is a panel of two or more people, the minister must appoint one is a panel of two or more people, the minister must appoint one member the minister must appoint one member as the minister must appoint one member as the the minister must appoint one member as the Chairperson. the minister must appoint one member as the Chairperson. If the minister must appoint one member as the Chairperson. If the the minister must appoint one member as the Chairperson. If the minister as the Chairperson. If the minister wouldn't as the Chairperson. If the minister wouldn't mind as the Chairperson. If the minister wouldn't mind clarifying as the Chairperson. If the minister wouldn't mind clarifying whether wouldn't mind clarifying whether it's wouldn't mind clarifying whether it's standard wouldn't mind clarifying whether it's standard practice wouldn't mind clarifying whether it's standard practice to wouldn't mind clarifying whether it's standard practice to appoint it's standard practice to appoint just it's standard practice to appoint just one it's standard practice to appoint just one person it's standard practice to appoint just one person as it's standard practice to appoint just one person as a it's standard practice to appoint just one person as a Chairperson, it's standard practice to appoint just one person as a Chairperson, or just one person as a Chairperson, or is just one person as a Chairperson, or is there just one person as a Chairperson, or is there room just one person as a Chairperson, or is there room or just one person as a Chairperson, or is there room or opportunities, just one person as a Chairperson, or is there room or opportunities, why is there room or opportunities, why was is there room or opportunities, why was it is there room or opportunities, why was it limited is there room or opportunities, why was it limited - is there room or opportunities, why was it limited - the is there room or opportunities, why was it limited - the co-chair was it limited - the co-chair option? was it limited - the co-chair option? And was it limited - the co-chair option? And the was it limited - the co-chair option? And the reason was it limited - the co-chair option? And the reason I was it limited - the co-chair option? And the reason I raise was it limited - the co-chair option? And the reason I raise this option? And the reason I raise this is option? And the reason I raise this is because option? And the reason I raise this is because of option? And the reason I raise this is because of subclause option? And the reason I raise this is because of subclause 2bii option? And the reason I raise this is because of subclause 2bii of is because of subclause 2bii of clause is because of subclause 2bii of clause 20, is because of subclause 2bii of clause 20, which is because of subclause 2bii of clause 20, which is is because of subclause 2bii of clause 20, which is where is because of subclause 2bii of clause 20, which is where the clause 20, which is where the minister clause 20, which is where the minister is clause 20, which is where the minister is able clause 20, which is where the minister is able to, clause 20, which is where the minister is able to, or clause 20, which is where the minister is able to, or may clause 20, which is where the minister is able to, or may consider minister is able to, or may consider appointing minister is able to, or may consider appointing a minister is able to, or may consider appointing a Crown minister is able to, or may consider appointing a Crown facilitator minister is able to, or may consider appointing a Crown facilitator on appointing a Crown facilitator on the appointing a Crown facilitator on the grounds appointing a Crown facilitator on the grounds a appointing a Crown facilitator on the grounds a group appointing a Crown facilitator on the grounds a group of appointing a Crown facilitator on the grounds a group of territorial the grounds a group of territorial authorities the grounds a group of territorial authorities is the grounds a group of territorial authorities is having the grounds a group of territorial authorities is having difficulties authorities is having difficulties agreeing authorities is having difficulties agreeing on authorities is having difficulties agreeing on a authorities is having difficulties agreeing on a term authorities is having difficulties agreeing on a term of authorities is having difficulties agreeing on a term of a authorities is having difficulties agreeing on a term of a joint authorities is having difficulties agreeing on a term of a joint plan. agreeing on a term of a joint plan. And agreeing on a term of a joint plan. And now, agreeing on a term of a joint plan. And now, this agreeing on a term of a joint plan. And now, this is agreeing on a term of a joint plan. And now, this is interesting agreeing on a term of a joint plan. And now, this is interesting in And now, this is interesting in terms And now, this is interesting in terms of And now, this is interesting in terms of tying And now, this is interesting in terms of tying it And now, this is interesting in terms of tying it to And now, this is interesting in terms of tying it to a And now, this is interesting in terms of tying it to a previous terms of tying it to a previous action, terms of tying it to a previous action, of terms of tying it to a previous action, of 17.3biii. terms of tying it to a previous action, of 17.3biii. If terms of tying it to a previous action, of 17.3biii. If you're terms of tying it to a previous action, of 17.3biii. If you're in terms of tying it to a previous action, of 17.3biii. If you're in a action, of 17.3biii. If you're in a situation action, of 17.3biii. If you're in a situation where action, of 17.3biii. If you're in a situation where the action, of 17.3biii. If you're in a situation where the group action, of 17.3biii. If you're in a situation where the group is action, of 17.3biii. If you're in a situation where the group is having situation where the group is having difficulty situation where the group is having difficulty agreeing situation where the group is having difficulty agreeing to situation where the group is having difficulty agreeing to a situation where the group is having difficulty agreeing to a joint situation where the group is having difficulty agreeing to a joint plan, difficulty agreeing to a joint plan, and difficulty agreeing to a joint plan, and the difficulty agreeing to a joint plan, and the best difficulty agreeing to a joint plan, and the best opportunity difficulty agreeing to a joint plan, and the best opportunity for difficulty agreeing to a joint plan, and the best opportunity for there and the best opportunity for there to and the best opportunity for there to be and the best opportunity for there to be an and the best opportunity for there to be an agreement and the best opportunity for there to be an agreement is and the best opportunity for there to be an agreement is to and the best opportunity for there to be an agreement is to appoint to be an agreement is to appoint co-chairs to be an agreement is to appoint co-chairs from, to be an agreement is to appoint co-chairs from, for to be an agreement is to appoint co-chairs from, for example, to be an agreement is to appoint co-chairs from, for example, from co-chairs from, for example, from either co-chairs from, for example, from either of co-chairs from, for example, from either of the co-chairs from, for example, from either of the groups. co-chairs from, for example, from either of the groups. As co-chairs from, for example, from either of the groups. As opposed co-chairs from, for example, from either of the groups. As opposed to either of the groups. As opposed to limiting either of the groups. As opposed to limiting it either of the groups. As opposed to limiting it to either of the groups. As opposed to limiting it to one either of the groups. As opposed to limiting it to one particular limiting it to one particular member, limiting it to one particular member, which limiting it to one particular member, which then limiting it to one particular member, which then may limiting it to one particular member, which then may further member, which then may further create member, which then may further create friction member, which then may further create friction between member, which then may further create friction between the member, which then may further create friction between the two create friction between the two groups create friction between the two groups who create friction between the two groups who may create friction between the two groups who may not create friction between the two groups who may not be create friction between the two groups who may not be in create friction between the two groups who may not be in agreement. groups who may not be in agreement. Of groups who may not be in agreement. Of course, groups who may not be in agreement. Of course, the groups who may not be in agreement. Of course, the minister groups who may not be in agreement. Of course, the minister is groups who may not be in agreement. Of course, the minister is within Of course, the minister is within their Of course, the minister is within their right Of course, the minister is within their right to Of course, the minister is within their right to appoint Of course, the minister is within their right to appoint someone Of course, the minister is within their right to appoint someone who their right to appoint someone who is their right to appoint someone who is completely their right to appoint someone who is completely independent, their right to appoint someone who is completely independent, but their right to appoint someone who is completely independent, but I is completely independent, but I wonder is completely independent, but I wonder if is completely independent, but I wonder if the is completely independent, but I wonder if the option is completely independent, but I wonder if the option of is completely independent, but I wonder if the option of co-chairs wonder if the option of co-chairs was wonder if the option of co-chairs was considered. wonder if the option of co-chairs was considered. The wonder if the option of co-chairs was considered. The next wonder if the option of co-chairs was considered. The next part wonder if the option of co-chairs was considered. The next part I wonder if the option of co-chairs was considered. The next part I want was considered. The next part I want to was considered. The next part I want to mention was considered. The next part I want to mention as was considered. The next part I want to mention as a was considered. The next part I want to mention as a point was considered. The next part I want to mention as a point of to mention as a point of clarification to mention as a point of clarification from to mention as a point of clarification from the to mention as a point of clarification from the minister, clarification from the minister, clause clarification from the minister, clause 20, clarification from the minister, clause 20, subclause clarification from the minister, clause 20, subclause 2da. clarification from the minister, clause 20, subclause 2da. This clarification from the minister, clause 20, subclause 2da. This is clause 20, subclause 2da. This is now clause 20, subclause 2da. This is now how clause 20, subclause 2da. This is now how a clause 20, subclause 2da. This is now how a Crown clause 20, subclause 2da. This is now how a Crown facilitator clause 20, subclause 2da. This is now how a Crown facilitator is now how a Crown facilitator is appointed, now how a Crown facilitator is appointed, the now how a Crown facilitator is appointed, the same now how a Crown facilitator is appointed, the same section... appointed, the same section... ..Iwould appointed, the same section... ..Iwould like appointed, the same section... ..Iwould like to appointed, the same section... ..Iwould like to focus appointed, the same section... ..Iwould like to focus specifically ..Iwould like to focus specifically on ..Iwould like to focus specifically on the ..Iwould like to focus specifically on the terms ..Iwould like to focus specifically on the terms if ..Iwould like to focus specifically on the terms if the ..Iwould like to focus specifically on the terms if the Crown on the terms if the Crown facilitator on the terms if the Crown facilitator or on the terms if the Crown facilitator or the on the terms if the Crown facilitator or the water on the terms if the Crown facilitator or the water specialist, facilitator or the water specialist, the facilitator or the water specialist, the water facilitator or the water specialist, the water service facilitator or the water specialist, the water service specialist facilitator or the water specialist, the water service specialist is the water service specialist is appointed, the water service specialist is appointed, details the water service specialist is appointed, details of the water service specialist is appointed, details of how appointed, details of how remuneration appointed, details of how remuneration and appointed, details of how remuneration and expenses appointed, details of how remuneration and expenses of appointed, details of how remuneration and expenses of the remuneration and expenses of the Crown remuneration and expenses of the Crown facilitator remuneration and expenses of the Crown facilitator will remuneration and expenses of the Crown facilitator will be Crown facilitator will be apportioned Crown facilitator will be apportioned between Crown facilitator will be apportioned between territorial apportioned between territorial authorities. apportioned between territorial authorities. Two apportioned between territorial authorities. Two points apportioned between territorial authorities. Two points of authorities. Two points of clarification. authorities. Two points of clarification. The authorities. Two points of clarification. The first authorities. Two points of clarification. The first part authorities. Two points of clarification. The first part is authorities. Two points of clarification. The first part is to clarification. The first part is to do clarification. The first part is to do with clarification. The first part is to do with - clarification. The first part is to do with - has clarification. The first part is to do with - has to clarification. The first part is to do with - has to do clarification. The first part is to do with - has to do with clarification. The first part is to do with - has to do with the clarification. The first part is to do with - has to do with the actual do with - has to do with the actual cost do with - has to do with the actual cost itself, do with - has to do with the actual cost itself, which do with - has to do with the actual cost itself, which is do with - has to do with the actual cost itself, which is detailed do with - has to do with the actual cost itself, which is detailed in cost itself, which is detailed in clause cost itself, which is detailed in clause 29 cost itself, which is detailed in clause 29 of cost itself, which is detailed in clause 29 of the cost itself, which is detailed in clause 29 of the fees cost itself, which is detailed in clause 29 of the fees framework. cost itself, which is detailed in clause 29 of the fees framework. In clause 29 of the fees framework. In clause clause 29 of the fees framework. In clause 21, clause 29 of the fees framework. In clause 21, subclause clause 29 of the fees framework. In clause 21, subclause 2, clause 29 of the fees framework. In clause 21, subclause 2, it's clause 29 of the fees framework. In clause 21, subclause 2, it's derped clause 21, subclause 2, it's derped by clause 21, subclause 2, it's derped by the clause 21, subclause 2, it's derped by the government. clause 21, subclause 2, it's derped by the government. In clause 21, subclause 2, it's derped by the government. In terms clause 21, subclause 2, it's derped by the government. In terms -- by the government. In terms -- determined by the government. In terms -- determined by by the government. In terms -- determined by the by the government. In terms -- determined by the government. by the government. In terms -- determined by the government. We determined by the government. We have determined by the government. We have both determined by the government. We have both the determined by the government. We have both the government determined by the government. We have both the government fees have both the government fees framework have both the government fees framework as have both the government fees framework as well have both the government fees framework as well as have both the government fees framework as well as local framework as well as local government framework as well as local government and framework as well as local government and also framework as well as local government and also territorial government and also territorial authorities' government and also territorial authorities' fees government and also territorial authorities' fees framework. government and also territorial authorities' fees framework. To government and also territorial authorities' fees framework. To give authorities' fees framework. To give an authorities' fees framework. To give an example, authorities' fees framework. To give an example, based authorities' fees framework. To give an example, based on authorities' fees framework. To give an example, based on 2022's an example, based on 2022's determination, an example, based on 2022's determination, the an example, based on 2022's determination, the Government an example, based on 2022's determination, the Government fees determination, the Government fees framework determination, the Government fees framework for determination, the Government fees framework for someone determination, the Government fees framework for someone who determination, the Government fees framework for someone who is determination, the Government fees framework for someone who is in determination, the Government fees framework for someone who is in a framework for someone who is in a position framework for someone who is in a position of framework for someone who is in a position of a framework for someone who is in a position of a chair framework for someone who is in a position of a chair and framework for someone who is in a position of a chair and scores framework for someone who is in a position of a chair and scores a position of a chair and scores a score position of a chair and scores a score of position of a chair and scores a score of 24 position of a chair and scores a score of 24 to position of a chair and scores a score of 24 to 28, position of a chair and scores a score of 24 to 28, is position of a chair and scores a score of 24 to 28, is $594 position of a chair and scores a score of 24 to 28, is $594 to position of a chair and scores a score of 24 to 28, is $594 to $1265. score of 24 to 28, is $594 to $1265. For score of 24 to 28, is $594 to $1265. For Auckland score of 24 to 28, is $594 to $1265. For Auckland Council, score of 24 to 28, is $594 to $1265. For Auckland Council, for score of 24 to 28, is $594 to $1265. For Auckland Council, for the score of 24 to 28, is $594 to $1265. For Auckland Council, for the same For Auckland Council, for the same band For Auckland Council, for the same band of For Auckland Council, for the same band of score, For Auckland Council, for the same band of score, 24 For Auckland Council, for the same band of score, 24 to For Auckland Council, for the same band of score, 24 to 28, For Auckland Council, for the same band of score, 24 to 28, it's For Auckland Council, for the same band of score, 24 to 28, it's the band of score, 24 to 28, it's the cost band of score, 24 to 28, it's the cost of band of score, 24 to 28, it's the cost of $540 band of score, 24 to 28, it's the cost of $540 to band of score, 24 to 28, it's the cost of $540 to $1150, band of score, 24 to 28, it's the cost of $540 to $1150, which band of score, 24 to 28, it's the cost of $540 to $1150, which is cost of $540 to $1150, which is less. cost of $540 to $1150, which is less. So, cost of $540 to $1150, which is less. So, in cost of $540 to $1150, which is less. So, in this cost of $540 to $1150, which is less. So, in this case, cost of $540 to $1150, which is less. So, in this case, if cost of $540 to $1150, which is less. So, in this case, if the less. So, in this case, if the territorial less. So, in this case, if the territorial authority less. So, in this case, if the territorial authority as less. So, in this case, if the territorial authority as - less. So, in this case, if the territorial authority as - the territorial authority as - the reason territorial authority as - the reason they're territorial authority as - the reason they're being territorial authority as - the reason they're being appointed territorial authority as - the reason they're being appointed a reason they're being appointed a Crown reason they're being appointed a Crown facilitator reason they're being appointed a Crown facilitator is reason they're being appointed a Crown facilitator is because reason they're being appointed a Crown facilitator is because they're Crown facilitator is because they're not Crown facilitator is because they're not being Crown facilitator is because they're not being able Crown facilitator is because they're not being able to Crown facilitator is because they're not being able to manage Crown facilitator is because they're not being able to manage the Crown facilitator is because they're not being able to manage the plan Crown facilitator is because they're not being able to manage the plan or not being able to manage the plan or being not being able to manage the plan or being able not being able to manage the plan or being able to not being able to manage the plan or being able to manage not being able to manage the plan or being able to manage some not being able to manage the plan or being able to manage some of not being able to manage the plan or being able to manage some of the being able to manage some of the cost, being able to manage some of the cost, having being able to manage some of the cost, having the being able to manage some of the cost, having the government cost, having the government determination cost, having the government determination as cost, having the government determination as opposed cost, having the government determination as opposed to cost, having the government determination as opposed to a cost, having the government determination as opposed to a local determination as opposed to a local government determination as opposed to a local government determination determination as opposed to a local government determination may determination as opposed to a local government determination may also government determination may also add government determination may also add additional government determination may also add additional financial government determination may also add additional financial burden government determination may also add additional financial burden to add additional financial burden to the add additional financial burden to the local add additional financial burden to the local government add additional financial burden to the local government as add additional financial burden to the local government as well. add additional financial burden to the local government as well. That the local government as well. That point the local government as well. That point of the local government as well. That point of clarification the local government as well. That point of clarification as the local government as well. That point of clarification as well the local government as well. That point of clarification as well for point of clarification as well for the point of clarification as well for the minister point of clarification as well for the minister if point of clarification as well for the minister if you point of clarification as well for the minister if you wouldn't point of clarification as well for the minister if you wouldn't mind the minister if you wouldn't mind clarifying. the minister if you wouldn't mind clarifying. Whether the minister if you wouldn't mind clarifying. Whether that the minister if you wouldn't mind clarifying. Whether that has the minister if you wouldn't mind clarifying. Whether that has been clarifying. Whether that has been taken clarifying. Whether that has been taken into clarifying. Whether that has been taken into consideration clarifying. Whether that has been taken into consideration that clarifying. Whether that has been taken into consideration that if taken into consideration that if we're taken into consideration that if we're using taken into consideration that if we're using the taken into consideration that if we're using the Government we're using the Government determination, we're using the Government determination, it we're using the Government determination, it would we're using the Government determination, it would be we're using the Government determination, it would be at we're using the Government determination, it would be at a determination, it would be at a greater determination, it would be at a greater cost determination, it would be at a greater cost to determination, it would be at a greater cost to the determination, it would be at a greater cost to the territorial greater cost to the territorial authorities. greater cost to the territorial authorities. The greater cost to the territorial authorities. The Hon greater cost to the territorial authorities. The Hon Matt greater cost to the territorial authorities. The Hon Matt Doocey. authorities. The Hon Matt Doocey. Thank authorities. The Hon Matt Doocey. Thank you authorities. The Hon Matt Doocey. Thank you very authorities. The Hon Matt Doocey. Thank you very much, authorities. The Hon Matt Doocey. Thank you very much, Mr authorities. The Hon Matt Doocey. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. authorities. The Hon Matt Doocey. Thank you very much, Mr Chair. And Thank you very much, Mr Chair. And just Thank you very much, Mr Chair. And just to Thank you very much, Mr Chair. And just to acknowledge Thank you very much, Mr Chair. And just to acknowledge Lawrence Thank you very much, Mr Chair. And just to acknowledge Lawrence Xu-Nan just to acknowledge Lawrence Xu-Nan who just to acknowledge Lawrence Xu-Nan who gave just to acknowledge Lawrence Xu-Nan who gave me just to acknowledge Lawrence Xu-Nan who gave me flashbacks just to acknowledge Lawrence Xu-Nan who gave me flashbacks to just to acknowledge Lawrence Xu-Nan who gave me flashbacks to the just to acknowledge Lawrence Xu-Nan who gave me flashbacks to the time who gave me flashbacks to the time he who gave me flashbacks to the time he kept who gave me flashbacks to the time he kept me who gave me flashbacks to the time he kept me here who gave me flashbacks to the time he kept me here until who gave me flashbacks to the time he kept me here until midnight who gave me flashbacks to the time he kept me here until midnight for he kept me here until midnight for ACC he kept me here until midnight for ACC debit he kept me here until midnight for ACC debit instalment he kept me here until midnight for ACC debit instalment bill, he kept me here until midnight for ACC debit instalment bill, something ACC debit instalment bill, something I'm ACC debit instalment bill, something I'm still ACC debit instalment bill, something I'm still trying ACC debit instalment bill, something I'm still trying to ACC debit instalment bill, something I'm still trying to recover ACC debit instalment bill, something I'm still trying to recover from. I'm still trying to recover from. He's I'm still trying to recover from. He's getting I'm still trying to recover from. He's getting settled I'm still trying to recover from. He's getting settled in I'm still trying to recover from. He's getting settled in for I'm still trying to recover from. He's getting settled in for another He's getting settled in for another marathon He's getting settled in for another marathon effort. He's getting settled in for another marathon effort. Before He's getting settled in for another marathon effort. Before I He's getting settled in for another marathon effort. Before I do, He's getting settled in for another marathon effort. Before I do, to He's getting settled in for another marathon effort. Before I do, to the marathon effort. Before I do, to the Hon marathon effort. Before I do, to the Hon Dr marathon effort. Before I do, to the Hon Dr Russel marathon effort. Before I do, to the Hon Dr Russel in marathon effort. Before I do, to the Hon Dr Russel in response marathon effort. Before I do, to the Hon Dr Russel in response to marathon effort. Before I do, to the Hon Dr Russel in response to some Hon Dr Russel in response to some questions Hon Dr Russel in response to some questions around Hon Dr Russel in response to some questions around appointing Hon Dr Russel in response to some questions around appointing a Hon Dr Russel in response to some questions around appointing a Crown questions around appointing a Crown facilitator questions around appointing a Crown facilitator versus questions around appointing a Crown facilitator versus a questions around appointing a Crown facilitator versus a Crown questions around appointing a Crown facilitator versus a Crown water facilitator versus a Crown water services facilitator versus a Crown water services specialist, facilitator versus a Crown water services specialist, is facilitator versus a Crown water services specialist, is it facilitator versus a Crown water services specialist, is it clear facilitator versus a Crown water services specialist, is it clear the services specialist, is it clear the crossover, services specialist, is it clear the crossover, what services specialist, is it clear the crossover, what are services specialist, is it clear the crossover, what are the crossover, what are the circumstances crossover, what are the circumstances around crossover, what are the circumstances around appointment, circumstances around appointment, I've circumstances around appointment, I've been circumstances around appointment, I've been advised circumstances around appointment, I've been advised the circumstances around appointment, I've been advised the Crown I've been advised the Crown facilitator I've been advised the Crown facilitator is I've been advised the Crown facilitator is mainly I've been advised the Crown facilitator is mainly for I've been advised the Crown facilitator is mainly for assistance facilitator is mainly for assistance to facilitator is mainly for assistance to councils facilitator is mainly for assistance to councils during facilitator is mainly for assistance to councils during the facilitator is mainly for assistance to councils during the preparation to councils during the preparation of to councils during the preparation of water to councils during the preparation of water services to councils during the preparation of water services delivery to councils during the preparation of water services delivery plans. of water services delivery plans. It's of water services delivery plans. It's the of water services delivery plans. It's the intention of water services delivery plans. It's the intention is of water services delivery plans. It's the intention is they of water services delivery plans. It's the intention is they can of water services delivery plans. It's the intention is they can be It's the intention is they can be available It's the intention is they can be available to It's the intention is they can be available to advise It's the intention is they can be available to advise and It's the intention is they can be available to advise and assist available to advise and assist councils. available to advise and assist councils. Where available to advise and assist councils. Where Crown available to advise and assist councils. Where Crown water available to advise and assist councils. Where Crown water service councils. Where Crown water service - councils. Where Crown water service - when councils. Where Crown water service - when a councils. Where Crown water service - when a council councils. Where Crown water service - when a council fails councils. Where Crown water service - when a council fails to councils. Where Crown water service - when a council fails to submit councils. Where Crown water service - when a council fails to submit a - when a council fails to submit a plan - when a council fails to submit a plan at - when a council fails to submit a plan at all, - when a council fails to submit a plan at all, and - when a council fails to submit a plan at all, and mainly - when a council fails to submit a plan at all, and mainly when - when a council fails to submit a plan at all, and mainly when the plan at all, and mainly when the minister plan at all, and mainly when the minister has plan at all, and mainly when the minister has lost plan at all, and mainly when the minister has lost confidence plan at all, and mainly when the minister has lost confidence in minister has lost confidence in councils' minister has lost confidence in councils' ability minister has lost confidence in councils' ability to minister has lost confidence in councils' ability to develop minister has lost confidence in councils' ability to develop a councils' ability to develop a suitable councils' ability to develop a suitable plan councils' ability to develop a suitable plan or councils' ability to develop a suitable plan or to councils' ability to develop a suitable plan or to give councils' ability to develop a suitable plan or to give effect councils' ability to develop a suitable plan or to give effect to suitable plan or to give effect to the suitable plan or to give effect to the plan. suitable plan or to give effect to the plan. So, suitable plan or to give effect to the plan. So, which suitable plan or to give effect to the plan. So, which of suitable plan or to give effect to the plan. So, which of the the plan. So, which of the appointments the plan. So, which of the appointments might the plan. So, which of the appointments might be the plan. So, which of the appointments might be needed the plan. So, which of the appointments might be needed will appointments might be needed will depend appointments might be needed will depend clearly appointments might be needed will depend clearly on appointments might be needed will depend clearly on the appointments might be needed will depend clearly on the situation. appointments might be needed will depend clearly on the situation. And depend clearly on the situation. And what depend clearly on the situation. And what kind depend clearly on the situation. And what kind of depend clearly on the situation. And what kind of skills depend clearly on the situation. And what kind of skills are depend clearly on the situation. And what kind of skills are needed depend clearly on the situation. And what kind of skills are needed at what kind of skills are needed at that what kind of skills are needed at that point what kind of skills are needed at that point of what kind of skills are needed at that point of time. what kind of skills are needed at that point of time. The what kind of skills are needed at that point of time. The Hon what kind of skills are needed at that point of time. The Hon Rachel that point of time. The Hon Rachel Brooking. that point of time. The Hon Rachel Brooking. I that point of time. The Hon Rachel Brooking. I have that point of time. The Hon Rachel Brooking. I have some that point of time. The Hon Rachel Brooking. I have some comments that point of time. The Hon Rachel Brooking. I have some comments on Brooking. I have some comments on subpart Brooking. I have some comments on subpart 2, Brooking. I have some comments on subpart 2, but Brooking. I have some comments on subpart 2, but then Brooking. I have some comments on subpart 2, but then I'm Brooking. I have some comments on subpart 2, but then I'm going Brooking. I have some comments on subpart 2, but then I'm going to subpart 2, but then I'm going to move subpart 2, but then I'm going to move to subpart 2, but then I'm going to move to subpart subpart 2, but then I'm going to move to subpart 3. subpart 2, but then I'm going to move to subpart 3. On subpart 2, but then I'm going to move to subpart 3. On this subpart 2, but then I'm going to move to subpart 3. On this last subpart 2, but then I'm going to move to subpart 3. On this last - move to subpart 3. On this last - those move to subpart 3. On this last - those last move to subpart 3. On this last - those last comments move to subpart 3. On this last - those last comments from move to subpart 3. On this last - those last comments from the those last comments from the minister, those last comments from the minister, I those last comments from the minister, I like those last comments from the minister, I like to those last comments from the minister, I like to go those last comments from the minister, I like to go back those last comments from the minister, I like to go back to minister, I like to go back to something minister, I like to go back to something another minister, I like to go back to something another minister minister, I like to go back to something another minister in minister, I like to go back to something another minister in the something another minister in the chair something another minister in the chair said something another minister in the chair said earlier, something another minister in the chair said earlier, that something another minister in the chair said earlier, that the something another minister in the chair said earlier, that the point chair said earlier, that the point of chair said earlier, that the point of these chair said earlier, that the point of these plans chair said earlier, that the point of these plans is chair said earlier, that the point of these plans is to chair said earlier, that the point of these plans is to - chair said earlier, that the point of these plans is to - is chair said earlier, that the point of these plans is to - is to chair said earlier, that the point of these plans is to - is to not chair said earlier, that the point of these plans is to - is to not be of these plans is to - is to not be top of these plans is to - is to not be top up, of these plans is to - is to not be top up, like, of these plans is to - is to not be top up, like, apparently of these plans is to - is to not be top up, like, apparently the of these plans is to - is to not be top up, like, apparently the last of these plans is to - is to not be top up, like, apparently the last - top up, like, apparently the last - the top up, like, apparently the last - the last top up, like, apparently the last - the last Government's top up, like, apparently the last - the last Government's approach top up, like, apparently the last - the last Government's approach was, the last Government's approach was, according the last Government's approach was, according to the last Government's approach was, according to the the last Government's approach was, according to the minister, the last Government's approach was, according to the minister, and the last Government's approach was, according to the minister, and to the last Government's approach was, according to the minister, and to go according to the minister, and to go from according to the minister, and to go from the according to the minister, and to go from the bottom according to the minister, and to go from the bottom up. according to the minister, and to go from the bottom up. So according to the minister, and to go from the bottom up. So these according to the minister, and to go from the bottom up. So these plans from the bottom up. So these plans are from the bottom up. So these plans are supposed from the bottom up. So these plans are supposed to from the bottom up. So these plans are supposed to be from the bottom up. So these plans are supposed to be simple from the bottom up. So these plans are supposed to be simple for from the bottom up. So these plans are supposed to be simple for the are supposed to be simple for the councils are supposed to be simple for the councils to are supposed to be simple for the councils to do, are supposed to be simple for the councils to do, we are supposed to be simple for the councils to do, we heard are supposed to be simple for the councils to do, we heard that are supposed to be simple for the councils to do, we heard that the councils to do, we heard that the minister councils to do, we heard that the minister - councils to do, we heard that the minister - the councils to do, we heard that the minister - the internal councils to do, we heard that the minister - the internal affairs councils to do, we heard that the minister - the internal affairs is minister - the internal affairs is going minister - the internal affairs is going to minister - the internal affairs is going to provide minister - the internal affairs is going to provide Excel minister - the internal affairs is going to provide Excel spread minister - the internal affairs is going to provide Excel spread sheets going to provide Excel spread sheets to going to provide Excel spread sheets to make going to provide Excel spread sheets to make it going to provide Excel spread sheets to make it all going to provide Excel spread sheets to make it all very going to provide Excel spread sheets to make it all very easy. going to provide Excel spread sheets to make it all very easy. I'm to make it all very easy. I'm wondering to make it all very easy. I'm wondering why to make it all very easy. I'm wondering why it to make it all very easy. I'm wondering why it is to make it all very easy. I'm wondering why it is there to make it all very easy. I'm wondering why it is there needs to make it all very easy. I'm wondering why it is there needs to wondering why it is there needs to be wondering why it is there needs to be either wondering why it is there needs to be either of wondering why it is there needs to be either of these wondering why it is there needs to be either of these sets wondering why it is there needs to be either of these sets of wondering why it is there needs to be either of these sets of people be either of these sets of people that be either of these sets of people that the be either of these sets of people that the Hon be either of these sets of people that the Hon Dr be either of these sets of people that the Hon Dr Deborah be either of these sets of people that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell be either of these sets of people that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell was that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell was asking that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell was asking about, that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell was asking about, that that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell was asking about, that you that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell was asking about, that you just that the Hon Dr Deborah Russell was asking about, that you just answered asking about, that you just answered about, asking about, that you just answered about, minister, asking about, that you just answered about, minister, but asking about, that you just answered about, minister, but also asking about, that you just answered about, minister, but also why asking about, that you just answered about, minister, but also why at about, minister, but also why at clause about, minister, but also why at clause 30 about, minister, but also why at clause 30 there about, minister, but also why at clause 30 there needs about, minister, but also why at clause 30 there needs to about, minister, but also why at clause 30 there needs to be about, minister, but also why at clause 30 there needs to be the clause 30 there needs to be the recovery clause 30 there needs to be the recovery of clause 30 there needs to be the recovery of remuneration clause 30 there needs to be the recovery of remuneration of clause 30 there needs to be the recovery of remuneration of expenses recovery of remuneration of expenses from recovery of remuneration of expenses from local recovery of remuneration of expenses from local authorities recovery of remuneration of expenses from local authorities such recovery of remuneration of expenses from local authorities such as recovery of remuneration of expenses from local authorities such as the from local authorities such as the territorial from local authorities such as the territorial authority from local authorities such as the territorial authority owes from local authorities such as the territorial authority owes a from local authorities such as the territorial authority owes a debt from local authorities such as the territorial authority owes a debt to territorial authority owes a debt to the territorial authority owes a debt to the Crown. territorial authority owes a debt to the Crown. If territorial authority owes a debt to the Crown. If this territorial authority owes a debt to the Crown. If this is territorial authority owes a debt to the Crown. If this is just territorial authority owes a debt to the Crown. If this is just all territorial authority owes a debt to the Crown. If this is just all about the Crown. If this is just all about being the Crown. If this is just all about being bottom the Crown. If this is just all about being bottom up, the Crown. If this is just all about being bottom up, surely the Crown. If this is just all about being bottom up, surely there's the Crown. If this is just all about being bottom up, surely there's no being bottom up, surely there's no need being bottom up, surely there's no need for being bottom up, surely there's no need for sections being bottom up, surely there's no need for sections such being bottom up, surely there's no need for sections such as being bottom up, surely there's no need for sections such as that. being bottom up, surely there's no need for sections such as that. Now, need for sections such as that. Now, moving need for sections such as that. Now, moving on need for sections such as that. Now, moving on to need for sections such as that. Now, moving on to subpart need for sections such as that. Now, moving on to subpart 3, need for sections such as that. Now, moving on to subpart 3, and need for sections such as that. Now, moving on to subpart 3, and I'm need for sections such as that. Now, moving on to subpart 3, and I'm not moving on to subpart 3, and I'm not saying moving on to subpart 3, and I'm not saying that moving on to subpart 3, and I'm not saying that my moving on to subpart 3, and I'm not saying that my colleagues moving on to subpart 3, and I'm not saying that my colleagues don't moving on to subpart 3, and I'm not saying that my colleagues don't have saying that my colleagues don't have further saying that my colleagues don't have further questions saying that my colleagues don't have further questions on saying that my colleagues don't have further questions on subpart saying that my colleagues don't have further questions on subpart 2, saying that my colleagues don't have further questions on subpart 2, but further questions on subpart 2, but I'm further questions on subpart 2, but I'm now further questions on subpart 2, but I'm now onto further questions on subpart 2, but I'm now onto subpart further questions on subpart 2, but I'm now onto subpart 3. further questions on subpart 2, but I'm now onto subpart 3. The further questions on subpart 2, but I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I spent I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I spent a I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I spent a bit I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I spent a bit of I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I spent a bit of time I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I spent a bit of time on I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I spent a bit of time on the I'm now onto subpart 3. The purpose - I spent a bit of time on the pump - I spent a bit of time on the pump of - I spent a bit of time on the pump of the - I spent a bit of time on the pump of the sub - I spent a bit of time on the pump of the sub -- - I spent a bit of time on the pump of the sub -- the - I spent a bit of time on the pump of the sub -- the purpose - I spent a bit of time on the pump of the sub -- the purpose of - I spent a bit of time on the pump of the sub -- the purpose of the of the sub -- the purpose of the subpart. of the sub -- the purpose of the subpart. This of the sub -- the purpose of the subpart. This is of the sub -- the purpose of the subpart. This is at of the sub -- the purpose of the subpart. This is at clause of the sub -- the purpose of the subpart. This is at clause 32. of the sub -- the purpose of the subpart. This is at clause 32. I subpart. This is at clause 32. I think subpart. This is at clause 32. I think some subpart. This is at clause 32. I think some parts subpart. This is at clause 32. I think some parts go subpart. This is at clause 32. I think some parts go against subpart. This is at clause 32. I think some parts go against other think some parts go against other parts think some parts go against other parts of think some parts go against other parts of clause think some parts go against other parts of clause 32. think some parts go against other parts of clause 32. So think some parts go against other parts of clause 32. So I'm think some parts go against other parts of clause 32. So I'm looking parts of clause 32. So I'm looking for parts of clause 32. So I'm looking for some parts of clause 32. So I'm looking for some clarity parts of clause 32. So I'm looking for some clarity from parts of clause 32. So I'm looking for some clarity from the parts of clause 32. So I'm looking for some clarity from the minister for some clarity from the minister on for some clarity from the minister on this. for some clarity from the minister on this. We for some clarity from the minister on this. We have for some clarity from the minister on this. We have at for some clarity from the minister on this. We have at 32 for some clarity from the minister on this. We have at 32 the for some clarity from the minister on this. We have at 32 the purpose on this. We have at 32 the purpose of on this. We have at 32 the purpose of the on this. We have at 32 the purpose of the subpart on this. We have at 32 the purpose of the subpart is on this. We have at 32 the purpose of the subpart is to on this. We have at 32 the purpose of the subpart is to promote on this. We have at 32 the purpose of the subpart is to promote the of the subpart is to promote the long-term of the subpart is to promote the long-term benefit of the subpart is to promote the long-term benefit of of the subpart is to promote the long-term benefit of consumers of the subpart is to promote the long-term benefit of consumers of long-term benefit of consumers of water long-term benefit of consumers of water services. long-term benefit of consumers of water services. That long-term benefit of consumers of water services. That sounds long-term benefit of consumers of water services. That sounds quite water services. That sounds quite good. water services. That sounds quite good. And water services. That sounds quite good. And b, water services. That sounds quite good. And b, to water services. That sounds quite good. And b, to ensure water services. That sounds quite good. And b, to ensure that good. And b, to ensure that sufficient good. And b, to ensure that sufficient information good. And b, to ensure that sufficient information is good. And b, to ensure that sufficient information is available. sufficient information is available. Then sufficient information is available. Then we sufficient information is available. Then we go sufficient information is available. Then we go to sufficient information is available. Then we go to 2, sufficient information is available. Then we go to 2, which sufficient information is available. Then we go to 2, which talks sufficient information is available. Then we go to 2, which talks about Then we go to 2, which talks about incentives. Then we go to 2, which talks about incentives. That Then we go to 2, which talks about incentives. That there's Then we go to 2, which talks about incentives. That there's incentives incentives. That there's incentives for incentives. That there's incentives for innovation, incentives. That there's incentives for innovation, for incentives. That there's incentives for innovation, for improving for innovation, for improving efficiency, for innovation, for improving efficiency, and for innovation, for improving efficiency, and for for innovation, for improving efficiency, and for providing for innovation, for improving efficiency, and for providing water efficiency, and for providing water services efficiency, and for providing water services at efficiency, and for providing water services at a efficiency, and for providing water services at a quality efficiency, and for providing water services at a quality that efficiency, and for providing water services at a quality that reflects services at a quality that reflects consumer services at a quality that reflects consumer demands. services at a quality that reflects consumer demands. Again, services at a quality that reflects consumer demands. Again, this services at a quality that reflects consumer demands. Again, this all consumer demands. Again, this all sounds consumer demands. Again, this all sounds good. consumer demands. Again, this all sounds good. But consumer demands. Again, this all sounds good. But the consumer demands. Again, this all sounds good. But the rest consumer demands. Again, this all sounds good. But the rest of consumer demands. Again, this all sounds good. But the rest of this sounds good. But the rest of this part sounds good. But the rest of this part seems sounds good. But the rest of this part seems to sounds good. But the rest of this part seems to be sounds good. But the rest of this part seems to be about sounds good. But the rest of this part seems to be about information. part seems to be about information. So, part seems to be about information. So, my part seems to be about information. So, my first part seems to be about information. So, my first question part seems to be about information. So, my first question on part seems to be about information. So, my first question on how part seems to be about information. So, my first question on how this So, my first question on how this purpose So, my first question on how this purpose works So, my first question on how this purpose works - So, my first question on how this purpose works - is So, my first question on how this purpose works - is how So, my first question on how this purpose works - is how is So, my first question on how this purpose works - is how is it So, my first question on how this purpose works - is how is it that purpose works - is how is it that incentives purpose works - is how is it that incentives are purpose works - is how is it that incentives are going purpose works - is how is it that incentives are going to purpose works - is how is it that incentives are going to be purpose works - is how is it that incentives are going to be provided incentives are going to be provided that incentives are going to be provided that go incentives are going to be provided that go beyond incentives are going to be provided that go beyond the incentives are going to be provided that go beyond the provision incentives are going to be provided that go beyond the provision of that go beyond the provision of information that go beyond the provision of information which that go beyond the provision of information which is that go beyond the provision of information which is what that go beyond the provision of information which is what the information which is what the subpart information which is what the subpart seems information which is what the subpart seems to information which is what the subpart seems to be information which is what the subpart seems to be about. information which is what the subpart seems to be about. So information which is what the subpart seems to be about. So there subpart seems to be about. So there - subpart seems to be about. So there - to subpart seems to be about. So there - to my subpart seems to be about. So there - to my reading, subpart seems to be about. So there - to my reading, it subpart seems to be about. So there - to my reading, it looks subpart seems to be about. So there - to my reading, it looks like subpart seems to be about. So there - to my reading, it looks like a - to my reading, it looks like a contradiction - to my reading, it looks like a contradiction there. - to my reading, it looks like a contradiction there. But - to my reading, it looks like a contradiction there. But then, contradiction there. But then, there's contradiction there. But then, there's some contradiction there. But then, there's some further contradiction there. But then, there's some further strange there's some further strange drafting there's some further strange drafting in there's some further strange drafting in this there's some further strange drafting in this part, there's some further strange drafting in this part, because there's some further strange drafting in this part, because at drafting in this part, because at three, drafting in this part, because at three, subsection drafting in this part, because at three, subsection 3, drafting in this part, because at three, subsection 3, it drafting in this part, because at three, subsection 3, it says drafting in this part, because at three, subsection 3, it says this three, subsection 3, it says this subpart three, subsection 3, it says this subpart relates three, subsection 3, it says this subpart relates only three, subsection 3, it says this subpart relates only to three, subsection 3, it says this subpart relates only to delivering subpart relates only to delivering the subpart relates only to delivering the purpose subpart relates only to delivering the purpose of subpart relates only to delivering the purpose of this subpart relates only to delivering the purpose of this act subpart relates only to delivering the purpose of this act under the purpose of this act under section the purpose of this act under section 3. the purpose of this act under section 3. 1 the purpose of this act under section 3. 1 and the purpose of this act under section 3. 1 and 2c. the purpose of this act under section 3. 1 and 2c. Those the purpose of this act under section 3. 1 and 2c. Those purposes section 3. 1 and 2c. Those purposes relate section 3. 1 and 2c. Those purposes relate to section 3. 1 and 2c. Those purposes relate to the section 3. 1 and 2c. Those purposes relate to the framework, section 3. 1 and 2c. Those purposes relate to the framework, the section 3. 1 and 2c. Those purposes relate to the framework, the overall relate to the framework, the overall framework relate to the framework, the overall framework and relate to the framework, the overall framework and the relate to the framework, the overall framework and the disclosure relate to the framework, the overall framework and the disclosure of framework and the disclosure of information. framework and the disclosure of information. And framework and the disclosure of information. And applies framework and the disclosure of information. And applies in framework and the disclosure of information. And applies in relation information. And applies in relation to information. And applies in relation to delivering information. And applies in relation to delivering water information. And applies in relation to delivering water services information. And applies in relation to delivering water services only information. And applies in relation to delivering water services only in to delivering water services only in circumstances to delivering water services only in circumstances where to delivering water services only in circumstances where there's to delivering water services only in circumstances where there's little circumstances where there's little or circumstances where there's little or no circumstances where there's little or no competition circumstances where there's little or no competition and circumstances where there's little or no competition and no circumstances where there's little or no competition and no likelihood or no competition and no likelihood of or no competition and no likelihood of that or no competition and no likelihood of that competition. or no competition and no likelihood of that competition. So, or no competition and no likelihood of that competition. So, is or no competition and no likelihood of that competition. So, is this of that competition. So, is this entire of that competition. So, is this entire subpart of that competition. So, is this entire subpart only of that competition. So, is this entire subpart only to of that competition. So, is this entire subpart only to areas of that competition. So, is this entire subpart only to areas that entire subpart only to areas that aren't entire subpart only to areas that aren't going entire subpart only to areas that aren't going to entire subpart only to areas that aren't going to have entire subpart only to areas that aren't going to have competition, aren't going to have competition, and aren't going to have competition, and why aren't going to have competition, and why are aren't going to have competition, and why are we aren't going to have competition, and why are we thinking aren't going to have competition, and why are we thinking about and why are we thinking about competition and why are we thinking about competition for and why are we thinking about competition for the and why are we thinking about competition for the delivery and why are we thinking about competition for the delivery of competition for the delivery of stormwater competition for the delivery of stormwater measures? competition for the delivery of stormwater measures? Because competition for the delivery of stormwater measures? Because this stormwater measures? Because this all stormwater measures? Because this all goes stormwater measures? Because this all goes back stormwater measures? Because this all goes back to stormwater measures? Because this all goes back to water stormwater measures? Because this all goes back to water services, all goes back to water services, water all goes back to water services, water services all goes back to water services, water services are all goes back to water services, water services are defined all goes back to water services, water services are defined to water services are defined to include water services are defined to include of water services are defined to include of course water services are defined to include of course stormwater. water services are defined to include of course stormwater. So, include of course stormwater. So, I'm include of course stormwater. So, I'm wondering include of course stormwater. So, I'm wondering what include of course stormwater. So, I'm wondering what clause include of course stormwater. So, I'm wondering what clause 3 include of course stormwater. So, I'm wondering what clause 3 is I'm wondering what clause 3 is about. I'm wondering what clause 3 is about. And I'm wondering what clause 3 is about. And also, I'm wondering what clause 3 is about. And also, that's I'm wondering what clause 3 is about. And also, that's clause I'm wondering what clause 3 is about. And also, that's clause 3 I'm wondering what clause 3 is about. And also, that's clause 3 - about. And also, that's clause 3 - subclause about. And also, that's clause 3 - subclause 3 about. And also, that's clause 3 - subclause 3 of about. And also, that's clause 3 - subclause 3 of clause about. And also, that's clause 3 - subclause 3 of clause that, about. And also, that's clause 3 - subclause 3 of clause that, and about. And also, that's clause 3 - subclause 3 of clause that, and then subclause 3 of clause that, and then how subclause 3 of clause that, and then how it subclause 3 of clause that, and then how it also subclause 3 of clause that, and then how it also links subclause 3 of clause that, and then how it also links with subclause 3 of clause that, and then how it also links with clause subclause 3 of clause that, and then how it also links with clause 33. subclause 3 of clause that, and then how it also links with clause 33. So how it also links with clause 33. So you've how it also links with clause 33. So you've got how it also links with clause 33. So you've got this how it also links with clause 33. So you've got this specific how it also links with clause 33. So you've got this specific subpart you've got this specific subpart restricting you've got this specific subpart restricting what you've got this specific subpart restricting what it you've got this specific subpart restricting what it relates you've got this specific subpart restricting what it relates to you've got this specific subpart restricting what it relates to in restricting what it relates to in 32, restricting what it relates to in 32, and restricting what it relates to in 32, and then restricting what it relates to in 32, and then you restricting what it relates to in 32, and then you have restricting what it relates to in 32, and then you have another 32, and then you have another clause, 32, and then you have another clause, just 32, and then you have another clause, just over 32, and then you have another clause, just over the 32, and then you have another clause, just over the page, 32, and then you have another clause, just over the page, that clause, just over the page, that says clause, just over the page, that says application clause, just over the page, that says application of clause, just over the page, that says application of the clause, just over the page, that says application of the subpart. clause, just over the page, that says application of the subpart. If says application of the subpart. If you says application of the subpart. If you have says application of the subpart. If you have already says application of the subpart. If you have already said says application of the subpart. If you have already said in says application of the subpart. If you have already said in the says application of the subpart. If you have already said in the clause you have already said in the clause before you have already said in the clause before that you have already said in the clause before that it you have already said in the clause before that it only you have already said in the clause before that it only applies you have already said in the clause before that it only applies to you have already said in the clause before that it only applies to some before that it only applies to some of before that it only applies to some of it, before that it only applies to some of it, why before that it only applies to some of it, why do before that it only applies to some of it, why do you before that it only applies to some of it, why do you need before that it only applies to some of it, why do you need another of it, why do you need another clause of it, why do you need another clause to of it, why do you need another clause to go of it, why do you need another clause to go on of it, why do you need another clause to go on about of it, why do you need another clause to go on about the clause to go on about the application clause to go on about the application of clause to go on about the application of that clause to go on about the application of that subpart? clause to go on about the application of that subpart? So clause to go on about the application of that subpart? So how application of that subpart? So how do application of that subpart? So how do these application of that subpart? So how do these two application of that subpart? So how do these two link application of that subpart? So how do these two link together? application of that subpart? So how do these two link together? Then do these two link together? Then also do these two link together? Then also on do these two link together? Then also on this do these two link together? Then also on this - do these two link together? Then also on this - on do these two link together? Then also on this - on subpart do these two link together? Then also on this - on subpart 3 do these two link together? Then also on this - on subpart 3 - do these two link together? Then also on this - on subpart 3 - is do these two link together? Then also on this - on subpart 3 - is at also on this - on subpart 3 - is at clause also on this - on subpart 3 - is at clause 40a, also on this - on subpart 3 - is at clause 40a, there's also on this - on subpart 3 - is at clause 40a, there's provision also on this - on subpart 3 - is at clause 40a, there's provision for also on this - on subpart 3 - is at clause 40a, there's provision for a clause 40a, there's provision for a levy. clause 40a, there's provision for a levy. And clause 40a, there's provision for a levy. And the clause 40a, there's provision for a levy. And the levy clause 40a, there's provision for a levy. And the levy - clause 40a, there's provision for a levy. And the levy - the clause 40a, there's provision for a levy. And the levy - the select levy. And the levy - the select committee levy. And the levy - the select committee report levy. And the levy - the select committee report says levy. And the levy - the select committee report says well levy. And the levy - the select committee report says well this levy. And the levy - the select committee report says well this is committee report says well this is for committee report says well this is for any committee report says well this is for any Commerce committee report says well this is for any Commerce Commission committee report says well this is for any Commerce Commission work for any Commerce Commission work that for any Commerce Commission work that may for any Commerce Commission work that may happen. for any Commerce Commission work that may happen. But for any Commerce Commission work that may happen. But what for any Commerce Commission work that may happen. But what is for any Commerce Commission work that may happen. But what is that that may happen. But what is that work that may happen. But what is that work that that may happen. But what is that work that might that may happen. But what is that work that might be that may happen. But what is that work that might be happening, that may happen. But what is that work that might be happening, and work that might be happening, and how work that might be happening, and how is work that might be happening, and how is that work that might be happening, and how is that levy work that might be happening, and how is that levy good work that might be happening, and how is that levy good for work that might be happening, and how is that levy good for councils? how is that levy good for councils? Because how is that levy good for councils? Because the how is that levy good for councils? Because the minister how is that levy good for councils? Because the minister in how is that levy good for councils? Because the minister in the how is that levy good for councils? Because the minister in the chair Because the minister in the chair yesterday Because the minister in the chair yesterday was Because the minister in the chair yesterday was saying, Because the minister in the chair yesterday was saying, asserted Because the minister in the chair yesterday was saying, asserted that yesterday was saying, asserted that this yesterday was saying, asserted that this bill yesterday was saying, asserted that this bill is yesterday was saying, asserted that this bill is going yesterday was saying, asserted that this bill is going to yesterday was saying, asserted that this bill is going to be yesterday was saying, asserted that this bill is going to be good yesterday was saying, asserted that this bill is going to be good for this bill is going to be good for councils. this bill is going to be good for councils. So this bill is going to be good for councils. So I'm this bill is going to be good for councils. So I'm not this bill is going to be good for councils. So I'm not sure this bill is going to be good for councils. So I'm not sure why this bill is going to be good for councils. So I'm not sure why the councils. So I'm not sure why the levy councils. So I'm not sure why the levy is councils. So I'm not sure why the levy is there councils. So I'm not sure why the levy is there and councils. So I'm not sure why the levy is there and I councils. So I'm not sure why the levy is there and I also councils. So I'm not sure why the levy is there and I also remind councils. So I'm not sure why the levy is there and I also remind the levy is there and I also remind the minister levy is there and I also remind the minister that levy is there and I also remind the minister that Duncan levy is there and I also remind the minister that Duncan Webb's levy is there and I also remind the minister that Duncan Webb's point minister that Duncan Webb's point about minister that Duncan Webb's point about councils minister that Duncan Webb's point about councils that minister that Duncan Webb's point about councils that are minister that Duncan Webb's point about councils that are not about councils that are not contiguous about councils that are not contiguous has about councils that are not contiguous has still about councils that are not contiguous has still not about councils that are not contiguous has still not been contiguous has still not been answered. contiguous has still not been answered. The contiguous has still not been answered. The Hon contiguous has still not been answered. The Hon minister. contiguous has still not been answered. The Hon minister. I'm answered. The Hon minister. I'm mindful answered. The Hon minister. I'm mindful of answered. The Hon minister. I'm mindful of the answered. The Hon minister. I'm mindful of the time answered. The Hon minister. I'm mindful of the time boundary. answered. The Hon minister. I'm mindful of the time boundary. So answered. The Hon minister. I'm mindful of the time boundary. So I mindful of the time boundary. So I did mindful of the time boundary. So I did want mindful of the time boundary. So I did want to mindful of the time boundary. So I did want to get mindful of the time boundary. So I did want to get on mindful of the time boundary. So I did want to get on my mindful of the time boundary. So I did want to get on my feet mindful of the time boundary. So I did want to get on my feet and mindful of the time boundary. So I did want to get on my feet and just did want to get on my feet and just respond did want to get on my feet and just respond to did want to get on my feet and just respond to some did want to get on my feet and just respond to some questions. did want to get on my feet and just respond to some questions. But respond to some questions. But potentially respond to some questions. But potentially not respond to some questions. But potentially not all, respond to some questions. But potentially not all, as respond to some questions. But potentially not all, as they respond to some questions. But potentially not all, as they might potentially not all, as they might have potentially not all, as they might have to potentially not all, as they might have to come potentially not all, as they might have to come back potentially not all, as they might have to come back at potentially not all, as they might have to come back at the potentially not all, as they might have to come back at the next potentially not all, as they might have to come back at the next round have to come back at the next round of have to come back at the next round of the have to come back at the next round of the Committee have to come back at the next round of the Committee of have to come back at the next round of the Committee of the have to come back at the next round of the Committee of the whole have to come back at the next round of the Committee of the whole House. of the Committee of the whole House. But of the Committee of the whole House. But one of the Committee of the whole House. But one question of the Committee of the whole House. But one question we of the Committee of the whole House. But one question we were of the Committee of the whole House. But one question we were asked But one question we were asked around But one question we were asked around the But one question we were asked around the expenses But one question we were asked around the expenses and But one question we were asked around the expenses and fees around the expenses and fees framework, around the expenses and fees framework, I've around the expenses and fees framework, I've been around the expenses and fees framework, I've been advised around the expenses and fees framework, I've been advised this framework, I've been advised this approach framework, I've been advised this approach is framework, I've been advised this approach is consistent framework, I've been advised this approach is consistent with framework, I've been advised this approach is consistent with what approach is consistent with what happens approach is consistent with what happens in approach is consistent with what happens in the approach is consistent with what happens in the local approach is consistent with what happens in the local government approach is consistent with what happens in the local government act happens in the local government act in happens in the local government act in relation happens in the local government act in relation to happens in the local government act in relation to other happens in the local government act in relation to other appointees happens in the local government act in relation to other appointees made in relation to other appointees made by in relation to other appointees made by the in relation to other appointees made by the minister, in relation to other appointees made by the minister, potentially in relation to other appointees made by the minister, potentially such in relation to other appointees made by the minister, potentially such as by the minister, potentially such as a by the minister, potentially such as a Crown by the minister, potentially such as a Crown manager by the minister, potentially such as a Crown manager or by the minister, potentially such as a Crown manager or a by the minister, potentially such as a Crown manager or a Crown by the minister, potentially such as a Crown manager or a Crown observer a Crown manager or a Crown observer if a Crown manager or a Crown observer if there's a Crown manager or a Crown observer if there's problems a Crown manager or a Crown observer if there's problems with a Crown manager or a Crown observer if there's problems with a a Crown manager or a Crown observer if there's problems with a local if there's problems with a local authority. if there's problems with a local authority. The if there's problems with a local authority. The time if there's problems with a local authority. The time has if there's problems with a local authority. The time has come if there's problems with a local authority. The time has come for if there's problems with a local authority. The time has come for me authority. The time has come for me to authority. The time has come for me to report authority. The time has come for me to report progress. to report progress. The to report progress. The House to report progress. The House is to report progress. The House is resumed. to report progress. The House is resumed. Madam to report progress. The House is resumed. Madam Speaker, to report progress. The House is resumed. Madam Speaker, the resumed. Madam Speaker, the committee resumed. Madam Speaker, the committee has resumed. Madam Speaker, the committee has considered resumed. Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the resumed. Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Gangs committee has considered the Gangs Legislation committee has considered the Gangs Legislation Amendment committee has considered the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill committee has considered the Gangs Legislation Amendment Bill and Legislation Amendment Bill and reports Legislation Amendment Bill and reports it Legislation Amendment Bill and reports it with Legislation Amendment Bill and reports it with amendment Legislation Amendment Bill and reports it with amendment and reports it with amendment and divided reports it with amendment and divided into reports it with amendment and divided into the reports it with amendment and divided into the following reports it with amendment and divided into the following bills. divided into the following bills. Gangs divided into the following bills. Gangs bill, divided into the following bills. Gangs bill, sentencing divided into the following bills. Gangs bill, sentencing amendment Gangs bill, sentencing amendment bill. Gangs bill, sentencing amendment bill. The Gangs bill, sentencing amendment bill. The committee Gangs bill, sentencing amendment bill. The committee has Gangs bill, sentencing amendment bill. The committee has also bill. The committee has also considered bill. The committee has also considered the bill. The committee has also considered the Local bill. The committee has also considered the Local Government considered the Local Government (Water considered the Local Government (Water Services considered the Local Government (Water Services Preliminary (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill and (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill and reports Arrangements) Bill and reports progress. Arrangements) Bill and reports progress. Madam Arrangements) Bill and reports progress. Madam Speaker, Arrangements) Bill and reports progress. Madam Speaker, I Arrangements) Bill and reports progress. Madam Speaker, I move Arrangements) Bill and reports progress. Madam Speaker, I move the progress. Madam Speaker, I move the report progress. Madam Speaker, I move the report be progress. Madam Speaker, I move the report be adopted. progress. Madam Speaker, I move the report be adopted. The progress. Madam Speaker, I move the report be adopted. The question progress. Madam Speaker, I move the report be adopted. The question is report be adopted. The question is that report be adopted. The question is that the report be adopted. The question is that the report report be adopted. The question is that the report be report be adopted. The question is that the report be adopted. report be adopted. The question is that the report be adopted. Those report be adopted. The question is that the report be adopted. Those of that the report be adopted. Those of that that the report be adopted. Those of that opinion that the report be adopted. Those of that opinion will that the report be adopted. Those of that opinion will say that the report be adopted. Those of that opinion will say aye. that the report be adopted. Those of that opinion will say aye. To that the report be adopted. Those of that opinion will say aye. To the that opinion will say aye. To the contrary that opinion will say aye. To the contrary no. that opinion will say aye. To the contrary no. The that opinion will say aye. To the contrary no. The motion that opinion will say aye. To the contrary no. The motion is that opinion will say aye. To the contrary no. The motion is agreed. contrary no. The motion is agreed. So, contrary no. The motion is agreed. So, the contrary no. The motion is agreed. So, the gangs contrary no. The motion is agreed. So, the gangs bill contrary no. The motion is agreed. So, the gangs bill and contrary no. The motion is agreed. So, the gangs bill and the So, the gangs bill and the sentencing So, the gangs bill and the sentencing amendment So, the gangs bill and the sentencing amendment bill So, the gangs bill and the sentencing amendment bill are So, the gangs bill and the sentencing amendment bill are set sentencing amendment bill are set down sentencing amendment bill are set down for sentencing amendment bill are set down for third sentencing amendment bill are set down for third reading sentencing amendment bill are set down for third reading next sentencing amendment bill are set down for third reading next sitting down for third reading next sitting day. down for third reading next sitting day. The down for third reading next sitting day. The Local down for third reading next sitting day. The Local Government down for third reading next sitting day. The Local Government (Water day. The Local Government (Water Services day. The Local Government (Water Services Preliminary day. The Local Government (Water Services Preliminary Arrangements) Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill is Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill is set Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill is set down Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill is set down for Services Preliminary Arrangements) Bill is set down for further Bill is set down for further consideration Bill is set down for further consideration in Bill is set down for further consideration in committee Bill is set down for further consideration in committee next consideration in committee next sitting consideration in committee next sitting day. consideration in committee next sitting day. The consideration in committee next sitting day. The House consideration in committee next sitting day. The House stands sitting day. The House stands adjourned sitting day. The House stands adjourned until sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2:00pm sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2:00pm on sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2:00pm on Tuesday sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2:00pm on Tuesday 20 adjourned until 2:00pm on Tuesday 20 August adjourned until 2:00pm on Tuesday 20 August 2024. Captioned Captioned by Captioned by Red Captioned by Red Bee Captioned by Red Bee Media Red Bee Media for Red Bee Media for the Red Bee Media for the Office Red Bee Media for the Office of Red Bee Media for the Office of the Red Bee Media for the Office of the Clerk for the Office of the Clerk of for the Office of the Clerk of the for the Office of the Clerk of the House for the Office of the Clerk of the House of for the Office of the Clerk of the House of Representatives.