- Uea, uea! Uea te ope nui, te ope rahi. Kia tu tangatanga te ara ki Te Hui Paiaka o te kupu korero e! Whano, whano, whano mai te kaupapa. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e! This week on The Hui ` a new set of rules for how future laws are made. - I'm extremely excited to introduce the Regulatory Standards Bill to this House. - But not everyone is in support. - The Treaty Principles Bill tried to rewrite the Treaty principles. This Bill is actually trying to replace them, but worse. - We discuss the contentious bill with our expert panel. And it's the race that moved an iwi. - Morena, everybody. - Te Arawa has revived their Marae to Marae relay. - Koira tetahi o nga kaupapa tino nui kia whai wahi mai ai te katoa, kaua noa ko nga kaihakinakina me nga tangata ko pakari ke. Captions by James Brown. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2025 - Kua kotia atu nga mate o te po e ranga mai te au o Tahumate. Nga mate o te wa, haere mai, haere. Tatou kei te pito ora. Tihewa mauri ora, Hari Puanga, and welcome back to The Hui. It's been called the bill that will set new rules for all future legislation. The Regulatory Standards Bill is proposed to enhance legislation based on the principles of 'good law-making and economic efficiency'. It's another bill that is getting fierce debate across the motu, and inside Parliament too. - This Bill is a crucial piece of legislation for improving the long-term quality of regulation in our country and ultimately allowing New Zealanders to live longer, happier, healthier and wealthier lives. - So Mr Speaker, the Green Party is strongly opposed to this Regulatory Standards Bill because it flies in the face of everything that is good and right on this whenua we call home. - The Treaty Principles Bill tried to rewrite the Treaty principles. This Bill is actually trying to replace them, but worse. - It's a fringe libertarian perspective that gives private ownership, as he well knows, a level of distorted supremacy to trump Maori values, Maori concerns, environmental concerns and community concerns. - We support this Bill in the House and my message to the public is clear ` submit to the Select Committee. I look forward to hearing your submissions. I commend this Bill to the House. - Submit to the Select Committee, indeed. So, joining us now are our panel of experts. She is a lawyer and also an RSB expert. Joining us is Tania Waikato. Tania, tena koe. Nau mai. - Tena koe. - And also joining us is political commentator Chris Wikaira. - Welcome back e hoa. Tena koe. - Kia ora. - E aku rangatira, tena korua. OK, let's get into the Bill. Tania, what are the chief concerns for you? - This Bill is the most audacious piece of legislation that I think we have seen in our lifetimes, in terms of the constitutional impacts that it will have on Aotearoa, and not just on Maori but on people in general. And the fact that they have not undertaken consultation process, on the basis of the constitutional impacts it will have, is, as I've said, probably the biggest, um, attempt by a political party to instil their values as the primary mechanism by which all of our laws have to comply that I have ever seen in my 20 years of being a lawyer. - OK. There's a bit to pick up on there. We will get back to that. Chris Wikaira, what's unusual about this Bill? I mean, parties have tried this before. What's unusual about this time? - The same party has tried it three times before. - Indeed. - This is, you know, third time lucky, maybe. It is unusual just for exactly what Tania said, in terms of it being trying to really put a political ideology into all legislation and how all legislation will be framed going forward. That is different. - OK. Tania, you've been running a lot of hui and posting on social media, helping people with their submissions on the Bill. What sort of questions are people asking most about the Bill? What are they asking you? - We get a range of questions about the Bill, but one of the primary questions that people ask is, 'How does this affect me in a very practical, everyday way?' And one of the key things about this Bill that one of our witnesses in the Tribunal, Professor Jonathan Boston, said, is that this is the Everything Bill, because it literally affects every single aspect of life that you can possibly think of. And for all of our people ` and I'm not just talking about Maori people, I'm talking about anybody who is a worker and who's not a multi-millionaire ` is going to be very heavily affected by this Bill. And we won't see the true effects of it until it's in place and until we're sort of two, three years down the track, and then we see how all of the existing laws have to be assessed against these ACT Party principles and changed to comply with these ACT Party principles and all of the new laws coming in also have to comply with these ACT Party principles. There's a really wonderful graphic that my friend Tina Ngata prepared for our workshops, which is just a map of New Zealand, which has the ACT Party logo all over it. And it is the best representation, in a nutshell, that I have seen for what this will result in. - Yeah. Chris Wikaira, the ministry that was set up... (CHUCKLES) to deal with these things ` specifically look at regulations ` have given advice to the Minister and have said that he's looking at regulations in a different way, or indeed in a way that is not in line with the way in which statutes and legislation is made in Aotearoa. - That's fascinating, because there was the expectation in Wellington that that new ministry, David Seymour's ministry, would just be at heel and would fall straight into line and would support everything he's doing. The fact that it hasn't quite done that must be perplexing to the party. And where that ends up is... Well, we see ministers ` to be fair, we see ministers ignoring officials and departmental advice all the time, from governments mai ano. But yeah, everyone expected that ministry just to be absolutely right at his heel, doing exactly his bidding as he wanted it. - Well, one of the key things about that which came out in our Tribunal hearing was not only did his own ministry not support this Bill, and point out all of the other ways that this 'policy problem' could be dealt with ` and there's question marks as to whether it is even a policy problem that we have ` but his own ministry went as far as providing advice to him to say, 'OK, well, you should go and consult with te iwi Maori. 'Here are the people you should go and consult with, 'because this is going to have very serious impacts on te iwi Maori.' And the Minister's response to that was, cross out those organisations that his own officials were telling him to go and consult with. - Which is what was considered substantively by the Tribunal, therefore making the recommendation it did to halt it immediately before it even got to stage two, and reading in stage one. - Absolutely. And the Tribunal agreed with our submission that the consultation process was fundamentally flawed because of the way that the Minister approached it, ignoring his own officials' advice, ignoring all of the advice that came back from the departmental reports on this Bill. All of the departments ` you know, they're going to be required to review their legislation against these principles ` all of them expressed very serious concerns about this Bill. - And it's completely consistent with ACT's policy, and it goes to the comment that the leader made just this week ` there is no Maori funding. Cos he just doesn't believe it, it shouldn't exist. - Well, he said it was racist. - Yeah. Absolutely. And it's by need. Everything's by need. Well, for health, it's one and the same ` they're the same thing, really, when you look at it in reality. So that... Consult with iwi? He would just go, 'Why?' You know? 'Computer says no.' Just does not compute with him. - It's not just the Bill that's unusual. It's the circumstances that we now find ourselves in, right? So, we had a Treaty Principles Bill ` that got the response, a massive and huge response. - Unprecedented response. - Unprecedented response. - Particularly from Maori. And the engagement of rangatahi Maori in the political process is... I've not seen anything like it in my 30 years in dealing with politics in journalism. - I thought it was longer than 30 years, just quietly, Chris, but you've been there a long time. - It is a long time. - Shots fired. - But I take the point you're saying. Because now we have this one. Has the Minister ` and now the Deputy Prime Minister ` has he completely underestimated the response that he would receive? Because we've already heard about the massive amounts of negative responses in submissions already made, Tania. - Oh, he underestimated it. He absolutely underestimated it. And that's why he's come out... - Everybody underestimated it. - ...with these comments saying that it was bots that made those 20,000 submissions back in January. - You don't really look like a bot. - I know. I know I can be as efficient as a robot sometimes. - (LAUGHS) - But Tina Ngata and I trained over 400 people to go out and give submissions workshops on this Bill. And back in January, when I first found out about this Bill, which was not long after the Treaty Principles Bill debacle, when we were all running around getting people to make submissions, we had a five-day window to encourage people to make submissions on this. And I and a lot of my content-creator friends, we went as hard as we possibly could to get people to make those submissions. So I know they were real people. And when he made those comments last week, so many people contacted me cos they were livid about the comments he made about their submissions. - Why did he make that comment, then? To both of you ` why make a comment? - You go first. - He just didn't want to believe that that many people were that anti his Bill. And, look, I'm still surprised at how many ` particularly our young ones ` got involved in that process. And it was the movement that the likes of our friend here started. My cousin Maia Wikaira, she did a whole heap as well. It was just a roll-on, that no one expected that it would be so large. So therefore it just ` again, I said a moment ago ` does not compute. It does not compute with him. - But fundamentally, calculated political play to accuse these submissions of just being generated by bots, right, Tania? - Absolutely. - Easy. Lazy, throwaway line. - The timing of it, I think it was calculated. And I think it was very deliberate that he did it right now. We crashed that submissions portal on the first day, when these submissions opened this round. Because we were prepared. We were waiting, literally waiting for that portal to open. And we had already mobilised our people, we'd already trained our trainers, we already had thousands of people ready to go. I posted the night before, because we were waiting. And I said ` and I tagged him in it ` and I said, 'We're waiting. When are you gonna open the submissions?' And I'm not surprised it crashed on the first day, because we had so many people ready to make them. It crashed again the other week. It will crash again on the last day, because he doesn't understand that we don't need bots to get thousands of submissions, because we have whanaungatanga, and every time we activate our people, they hear us. - We are more than bots. - I wanna talk more about the submissions process after this. We'll hear more from our expert panel, Tania Waikato and of course Chris Wikaira. Stay with us. We'll have more after this. - Kia ora mai ano. He huinga ture, he huinga torangapu tenei te haere ake nei. On our panel on the Regulatory Standards Bill are our experts, Tania Waikato and Chris Wikaira. Let's get back into it. The submissions process ` you spoke about this before the break, Tania. There is a truncated timeframe, in terms of the submissions process for this Bill. Why is that the case? - Well, I would love to ask the Minister, David Seymour, why that is the case. Because normally a bill would have a six-week submissions period. This one only has 28 days. And the Select Committee, we sent a letter to them the other week asking, why has this got a shortened submissions process? And our Te Pati Maori MP asked for an eight-week process, which was voted down by the committee. One of our Green MPs asked for a six-week process ` which is the normal period of time ` also was voted down. So in terms of the impact that this Bill is going to have, from a constitutional perspective, and how important it is, to have a shortened submissions process in that context, in my opinion, is just reflective of how the Minister is adopting a, 'Shove it through as quickly as it possibly can and at any cost.' The other issue that came out of that Select Committee decision-making process is, initially, when they published this on the parliamentary website, there was a date of 22 November for the Select Committee to report back to the House on this. The Minister has now requested for that to be truncated and brought forward to the 23rd of September, which is the minimum period of time of four months and one day for the processing of that. So, again, the Minister is trying to shorten and truncate that process so that it can't follow a full democratic process. - See, Chris, this is why I say it's not just the Bill that's unusual. It's the whole process that is unusual here. - Well, we go back to the Treaty Principles Bill process. They did that ` they had a truncated process as well. And that was agreed by National and New Zealand First as well, because they were never gonna support it through to finality, into legislation. So therefore they just wanted to allow David Seymour a little bit of time to have his grandstand and his platform and then get it over and done with as quickly as possible. That's why they truncated the process there. And with this one, they won't want the hullabaloo either. So that's why they will be agreeing to a shortened process. But, you know, et tu, Winitana Pukana? - Well, before we get to Winston, the part I don't understand about that, if that's the case ` about letting David Seymour have his platform ` National's supporting this as a part of the coalition agreement. They are gonna support this all the way through, right? - Yes. - So what does National do now? If there is such a big hullabaloo, if what happens with the Treaty Principles Bill ` again another hikoi, or whatever it might be ` what does National do? - They can do what Winston Peters has said New Zealand First will do, and that they are not happy with the Bill in its current form and that it needs change, and that they will be making change. So this is where the rubber really hits the road, and we get to the crux of the whole matter. Because it could all proceed and get to legislation or fall over on that point there ` on what Winston does. - That requires something in the Bill that appeals to people ` through submissions, that they will talk about in their submissions. Tania Waikato, is there anything in this Bill that you like? - No ` this Bill, in its entirety, is an affront not just to our democracy, to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, to the partnership that was agreed on in Te Tiriti. And the fact that they've already been told by the Waitangi Tribunal that this is a breach of the principle of partnership, this is a breach of the principle of active protection, and you must stop immediately ` if you carry on and introduce it, you're going to breach Te Tiriti. -If you pass it, you will breach Te Tiriti. So they have been warned. And, like they have been doing essentially for the entire period that this coalition has been in government, they are ignoring their own Tribunal about what their obligations under Te Tiriti are. - See, the irony of this is, is that someone who isn't necessarily a fan of the Waitangi Tribunal could end up being the one that actually stops this Bill. Of course I'm talking about the indefatigable and omnipotent Right Honourable Winston Peters there. - Te Taniwha o te Nota. - Is that really going to happen, though, Chris? Talk to me. What is New Zealand First going to do? - New Zealand First has confirmed again that they need to make changes to the Bill to accept it. So then it comes down to the staring contest between David Seymour and Winston Peters. Are Winston's changes going to be acceptable to David Seymour? We don't know yet, cos we don't know what they are and when they're gonna be introduced. You know, changes to legislation or a bill can happen right up until the third reading, with the introduction of a Supplementary Order Paper. So it doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Legislation has been changed on the last day that it's been debated in the House. So there's some more theatre to come. - Well, and see, this is the interesting thing about the timing of all of this. Um, if the timing that they've already indicated proceeds, we'll have a committee report back around September, late September, which will then lead into the second reading, probably early October. Then we'll have a debate, then the third reading is probably gonna be sometime around the end of the year. And if I was Winston, I would definitely be sitting there thinking to myself, OK, if this all blows up the way it looks like it's going to blow up ` if we get hundreds of thousands of submissions on this and a massive backlash on this Bill, that is just going to increase the political likelihood of them saying, 'Hmm... Maybe we will walk away. Maybe we will not support this Bill.' But if I was him, I would let that play out as long as possible and let that opposition grow. Because if he does that, he'll be placing himself into a position, if they do walk away from it and it does result in a snap election, then they'll be in the best position possible. - You're saying this Bill could be the one that breaks the coalition government up. - This is the only Bill, out of all of the legislative programme that has been agreed between the three coalition partners, that has the potential to cause a snap election. It is the most maligned piece of legislation for 20 years. And in particular for New Zealand First and for Winston, it goes against the bones of that party. We were talking about it before. Winston was kicked out of the National Party for objecting to exactly the type of ideology that is in this Bill, and his voter base, they do not like this. They will be demanding to know, why are you all of a sudden supporting a bill that will enable foreign corporate control of Aotearoa? - We are talking about some serious political movements going on here. - Absolutely. And the playing field for Winston Peters has just changed. - He's no longer Deputy Prime Minister. - And he takes the role of office and those positions very, very seriously. Now, not so much ` he doesn't have to. He can go ` you watch he and Shane start their hikoi o te motu very, very soon. That's what New Zealand First does very, very well. They'll be out there rallying the people that support New Zealand First and saying exactly what Tania has said about here. There are things in this Bill which are anathema ` that's the sort of word that Winston would use ` to New Zealand First. - Yeah. Thank you both for your expertise. Really appreciate your time. - Nga mihi nui. - Tania Waikato and Chris Wikaira, our expert panel there. Kia ita tonu mai e hoa ma. Kua ara ake ano te kaupapa whakaora tangata, whakaora marae ano hoki o Te Arawa. The Te Arawa Marae Relay is up next. - He hui whakapiki ora, whakapiki marae tenei i te haere ake nei. Te Arawa has revived its Marae to Marae Relay, with nearly a thousand runners and walkers of all ages taking part. It started out as a fun run, but tribal pride quickly turned it into a race for a place. Mea nei te purongo a Wena Harawira. (STIRRING ATMOSPHERIC MUSIC) - I te takiritanga o te ata, ko oho moata mai nga ngakau whiwhita o Te Arawa waka. - Morena. - Morena! - Morena, everybody! - E huataki ana nga kuia me nga koroua i te tauoma tanga a marae. 42 kiromita te tawhiti. 11 nga tuaoma ki tena marae ki tena marae e awhio ana i te Rotorua-nui-a-Kahumatamomoe. - I'll be lucky if I make it to the highway. (LAUGHS) - Now, have you two been training as husband and wife? - No. (LAUGHS) - To the letterbox. To the letterbox. - We're the nannies. (LAUGHS) Our secret weapons are in the middle, all our kids. - It's really important that you don't lose these batons. - Ko Tipene Te Moni te kaihautu o Te Papa Takaro o Te Arawa, me te kaiwhakahaere o te tauoma tanga. - 32 ` 32 katoa nga tima no ia marae. Ka mutu ko tona 30 nga tangata kei ia tima. Na reira, kua tata ki te kotahi mano nga tangata, nga kaioma, nga kaihikoi ranei kua whai wahi mai ki tenei o nga kaupapa. - Kua rite te aroakapa, me o ratou hanga hikoikoi, kaiawhina hoki. - ALL: Three, two, one... (ALL CHEER) - Kare e wawe atu te kokirikiri, engari e hiamo ana ratou. - You can slow down. - Koira tetahi o nga kaupapa tino nui kia whai wahi mai ai te katoa. Kaua noa ko nga kaihakinakina me nga tangata ko pakari ke. - E umere ana hoki mo te hunga poturi. - LAUGHS: Yay! Must have had a hard night, eh? - Go, Awhina! - Koira tetahi mea ka hua mai i te arohanui o te tangata ki tona ake ano iwi. Koira ke te rautaki pai hei whakakorikori i te iwi. - There's bub. We're gonna win! - # Aue te aroha i ahau e... # tuki rawa e hine... # ki taku manawa. - Kia ora. - Kotahi haora whai muri i te timatanga o te kaupapa Maori, kua puta mai nga waewae kakama o te oma hauroa o Rotorua, 7000 tangata te maha. He tere ano hoki te haere a te hunga hikoikoi. E whaiwhai ana nga kaioma tanga, kaioma hauroa hoki i te huarahi matua e karapoti ana i te roto. E whakahaere ngatahi ai nga takunetanga hei tuari i nga utu, tona $700,000 te nui, mo nga mahi ahunga waka, tiaki tangata hoki. - You got it! - He utu ano hoki mo te hangarau. He paerongo kei runga i nga haki me nga pou, hei hopu i te wa e whakawhiti ai te kaioma. - Let's go, Uncle! - All the way! All the way! - Shot, ladies! - E wha kiromita kua takahia atu ki Waiteti te tuawha o nga marae i te ara omaoma. - Gotta get the back! (ALL LAUGH) - A, kua puta mai te toki o Tarimano ki te matai i te hunga tauwhainga. - Katoa, katoa o nga kaioma, kei a ratou etahi mea huna, mea kare i te tino whaki atu ki etahi atu, kei kapohia mai ai e tetahi. Ko au pea tetahi i te rauna whakamutunga, i te wahanga whakamutunga. Engari me waiho ki reira kei puta enei korero ki wahi ke atu. - He momo tonu. - Go! Good work! - Thank you for your time. - He hiwi kei tenei wahanga o te ara omaoma, tera te kitea ai te pa mai o te hemanawa me te manawanui. Heoi, he tauoma tanga pea te ara whainga mo te iwi o Te Arawa. - Ma te takahi ma raro e kite ai te tangata i tetahi ahuatanga kare ano ia kia kite i te mea ka te hautu waka ke tatou kia whakawhiti atu ki tena marae, kia huri noa tatou i te roto o te Rotorua-nui-a-Kahumatamomoe. - Neke atu i te wha haora ka whakawhiti atu te tira tuatahi i te pae whakamutunga. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) Ko te tira o Ngati Whakaue te toa. Engari, he poto te hari. - I hate to burst Ngati Whakaue's bubble. However, they didn't abide by the rules. - I raro i nga ture, me whakawhiti a ropu nga kaioma katoa o te tira i te pae whakamutunga. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) - Engari kua hinga nga tira o Tapuaekura me Hurungaterangi, kaore hoki i mau ki nga ture. - Kare i tareka a Tima Tarimano, ahakoa nga hiahia o te Toki o Tarimano. I aha te perene? - Kare etahi i whai atu i te perene. Koia te mate. I au i whakakohatuhia te upoko, engari ka kotiti haere etahi. Heoi ano, ko te mea kua tae mai to matou tira. Kua harikoa te iwi, kua eke te iwi ki te taumata i wawatatia mai ai. No reira, kare i hoatu, kare i homai. - I te mutunga iho, ka puta te ihu o te tira o Waiteti i te tauoma tanga. Ko Wally Haumaha, te kaikomihana pirihimana tuarua o mua, to ratou kaiarahi. - I said Ngati Ngararanui was going to win. And these fullas said, 'We're winning because we're all law-abiding citizens.' (LAUGHS) - No wai te marae kei runga? - ALL: Ko Waiteti! Haere mai, Te Arawa. Hei te wiki e tu mai nei e hoa ma, coming up next week on The Hui ` A feast based on memories... - It's all go in the kitchen. Everyone's very excited. It's buzzing. - ...with MasterChef winners Karena and Kasey Bird. - I au e whakaaro ana ki te kupu 'maumahara', i whakaaro au ki toku tamarikitanga, i whakaaro au ki oku tipuna. - Remembering past challenges and celebrating the good times. - When we design dining experiences, we want them to be immersive. We want people to come in, and we're able to transport people into different worlds for each of those plates. - Gee, that looks mean, eh? That is us for this week. We have our Puanga special, including that story, on The Hui next week. He huinga reo, he huinga tangata, he huinga Puanga. Until then e nga iwi, kia mau ki te turanga o Taputapuatea. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e! Captions by James Brown. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2025 - Ko te reo te take.