Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2026 Tangihia ra te hunga i arahi nana i te po kaikura ki te mate. Nga mate o te wa, haere mai, haere. Tatou ki te ao marama. Tihewa mauri ora ki a tatou katoa, and welcome back to The Hui. This week, we bring you the story of Peeni Henare, a man destined for leadership and politics. He resigned as an MP earlier this year. The question many asked was, why? So, before Waitangi, the day and the days, there's the announcement that you are stepping away from politics, and you say at the time you wanna go home ` whanau. I mean, you were the minister for Whangai Ora, so you know all about it and what's required at home and your own tamariki and those things. And the question that everyone is asking ` and Shane Jones alluded to this, in a very Shane Jones-esque way. (BOTH LAUGH) - Love you, uncle. - Is that the real story? - Uh, yes, for the most part. Politics is a is a tricky and dynamic place. You know, 12 years is a long time. And for those who watch my maiden speech, they'll notice a few things ` I had hair. Uh, I was about 12kg lighter. - (GIGGLES) - I had fewer knives in my back. - (GIGGLES) - And if you look at some politicians who never get the chance to serve in a government, half of my career, I've been a minister. And the other half, sat in opposition and learned. And you'll know some of the challenges after the 2023 election, where we got a hiding. And so after 2023, it was tough for our whole Labour team. And in the nature that I lost Tamaki Makaurau was tough. To know that you came so close, uh, that you knocked probably on more doors than anyone else, and you get to knock on the door, and auntie goes, 'Yeah, no, don't worry, boy ` I'll get down there and vote for you.' Auntie didn't vote for me. And, you know, one of the things I always enjoyed about Tamaki was the vast majority of voters here are Ngapuhi ` they were our whanau. And I took that hard not getting that mandate. I fell in the hole. I don't want to trivialise depression or anything like that. But I was struggling mentally, and part of that was spiritually, you know. So I started actually returning home, ki roto i nga wananga, just to try and find myself again after the 2023 loss. And I start picking myself up again. Mea rawa ake ` byelection. And I was clear, after having already been there 11 years, maybe I'm not the right person for the byelection ` maybe it is time to blood in some new people, some new faces. But because of the sudden nature and the sad passing of our tuahine, it just happened. And before I knew it, I was in the grip of a byelection. And we gave it everything, and all love and, uh, respect to our tuahine Oriini, but, yeah, it was another hard loss to take, and I fell back in that hole. And when you commit to politics, and you say, oh, yeah, I'm gonna give it everything for an election, you are signing yourself up for another three years. And I'm 46 now, got in when I was 33, and thinking maybe there's something else out there ` maybe my time here is done. - Can I ask this question, then? And respect, obviously, the fact that you've made your decision and you've made clear what your position is, But was it wholly your decision to make? Cos you said mostly. - Yeah, yeah. Look, you know, when you make those decisions, I present to the party, and collectively we make that decision. And ka pono taku korero, I sat down with the leader of the Labour Party, Chris Hipkins, on multiple occasions to talk about these various things that are what does the Maori vote look like? Where can we go? What's our strategy ` what's it going to take? Where am I sitting in this space? How do I feel about what the trajectory or the pathway is before us? And those conversations are always quite a dynamic one, with the leadership ` not just not just Chippy, but others who I consider to be leaders in the party, including the party president and others. And, you know, ultimately, while I'm the one who pulls the pin; collectively, though, we sat down and talked through these matters, and they were quite clear to me, Peeni, we see you as a part of our... you know, we want you ` please go away and think about it. And I did that while fishing in the Far North and... came back with that answer. - I think the reason why other people are confused by it is because in 2017, uh, with Jacinda Ardern and that Labour Government, that first-term Labour Government in 2017, was such a popular government, and you were a rising minister in that government. The Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern ` Dame Jacinda Ardern ` mentioned your name many times, when she talked about up-and-coming leaders within the Labour Party. And yet within six years, things have completely changed, and that's a bit that people don't get. - Um, I saw how she was treated, you know, both at the time her star was rising and at the time it was fading. And you've gotta ask yourself, are you up for that? Are we up for that kind of scrutiny, if you want to, and choose to try and pursue the leadership or being Prime Minister? Uh, and the answer is, I saw it firsthand what she went through ` uh, I saw it firsthand and got some really awesome advice from the likes of John Key, Bill English, who were good friends of my father. And then I got to see Jacinda ` I got to see the tide change in 2023. And I just thought, 'Can I do that?' - Mm. OK. - And the minute you question yourself, you know, I think that says it all. - At the beginning of 2023, she announces, after the retreat, that she is going to step down and leave Parliament. - Yeah. - Did you put your hand up, at that stage, to contest the leadership of the Labour Party? - Uh, not the leadership, no. Did I consider it? Yes. We have to. Uh, our people expect that. And I can tell you, uh, my recollections. Uh, the Maori Caucus ` and it was a strong Maori Caucus at that time. - Well, you had, you know, others who apparently put their hands up. Nanaia was there. Kiri Allan was considered ` Kelvin as well; you. So there was, as you say, a strong Maori Caucus there. I mean, Willie would have been there or thereabouts. Right? So, you know, was there consideration to try and get in behind one candidate, to put their name forward for the leadership? - It was a discussion we had, and we couldn't settle on whether or not we'd all throw our weight behind one candidate. - And you talked about what happened with Jacinda in her time, and obviously when she left, a rising star on the global stage, and then obviously left as Prime Minister ` what was she like? - One of the most amazing human beings I ever had the opportunity to know, let alone serve alongside. Uh, she was the real deal. You know, when I first got in, in 2014, in those days, Parliament was very different. You were a backbencher. You sat in an office in Siberia, and you didn't ` Your job was not to make a fool of yourself, and that was it. You know? Don't embarrass the party, and don't embarrass yourself. So you just sat there and learnt and try to soak everything in. At the time, her and I were the youngest in the party, in the caucus, cos we're only months apart in age. And so she made the effort, came to me, sat down with me, talked with me. We laughed, we joked, we talked about all the policy and so many things. So I struck a really good relationship with Jacinda ` one that I carry on and continue with today. And then to see her in that role as Prime Minister was just... I don't know if you... I think you were covering it when she announced, and we had the hui down at the Town Hall in Auckland here, and there were just queues of people all the way up the road, and we say it lightly, catching lightning in a bottle. She caught lightning in a bottle, and it was phenomenal to see. But then there's the other part, where, um, I hope will be explored at a greater depth, yeah, in another platform, perhaps, or another time. I was the Civil Defence Minister when Whakaari White Island blew. And at the time, I was at a flooding in West Coast Te Tai Poutini. And we got an Air Force plane from there to the Beehive, where we were briefed, and then she jumped in, and we continued on to Whakatane. And I saw her leadership skills at the fore, her communication, her empathy, her ability to, in hugely stressful situations, decipher and discern what needed to happen and made it happen. And it was phenomenal to see. - Kia ita tonu mai e te iwi. We have more with Peeni Henare after this. Hoki mai ano. In part two of our korero with Peeni Henare, he discusses other politicians he has had conversations with, and some of those conversations may surprise you. You have any relationship with the Prime Minister now, with Chris Luxon? - Yeah, I do, actually. - People will be surprised by that. - Yeah. Yeah, I actually have a lot of time for him. During Covid, we got to do a lot with him. He was the chair of the Business Advisory Council, so I got to know him reasonably well. I think there is something about people who find themselves in the position of our Prime Minister ` They've just got something that you can connect with, and I find that in Luxon; I found it in John Key. Here's a story for you. When... te matenga o taku papa, I went back, cos he died at the beginning of May ` the Budget later in May, always a big occasion in Parliament, and I was sitting on the plane, Auckland to Wellington, early in the morning, and John Key walked on, and he shook my hand, and he said, 'Oh, condolences. Aroha.' I said, 'Thank you.' Anyway, we landed in Wellington, and he's the Prime Minister, So he gets to go off first and gets in the Crown limo and goes to work. And by the time I caught my taxi and got in to my desk, he had already grabbed the Hansard and marked every page where my father was mentioned in the poroporaki of the House, and he marked every page and he signed ` he wrote a note, and he said, 'Let this be testament to your father's legacy and contribution to this country. 'Arohanui, John Key.' You know? So if you have the aspiration to be a Prime Minister, you've gotta have... I don't know if it's the common touch or something like that, but my experience with all of them, including Luxon, has been a very genuine one. - What about David Seymour? - Yes, actually, I get on with David Seymour, and same thing ` 2014, get into Parliament, big powhiri for the Maori MPs in Matangireia. So I'm sitting there, and ka uru mai a David, and he came to sit next to me, and I said, 'Oh, hey, sorry, bro. I don't know if you know, 'but this is for Maori MPs.' (BOTH LAUGH) And he goes, 'I know.' And I went, 'Oh, OK'. - (GIGGLES) - Anyway, ka mutu te... nga mihimihi, nga korero, and that was on a Tuesday. I go home on a Friday, and as you know, my father lived up north. So I drive up from Tamaki, go to see my dad, debrief the week, first week. David Seymour was there at his kainga, finding his whakapapa. - Oh, OK. - And we sat down for the weekend, and I got to know this man. You know? The thing I tell when people get frustrated, when they're dealing with David is he's a man who comes to the table with a solution. Whether you like the solution or not, it doesn't matter. What we've become really good at is Maori is coming with a clear definition of the problem. So if you wanna go toe to toe with David, have a solution, and be able to debate those facts. And that's all he's asking for, but it gets under our skin. You know, we see it as whakahihi, a bit of whakatoi ` a bit of know-it-all, a bit of arrogance. But I actually get on with him. - I know you have a relationship with Winston Peters. I was told that, um, when Winston Peters announced that he was going into coalition with the Labour Party in 2017, that you and a couple of hangers-on might have gone to Winston Peters' office and had some whisky that night, and then gone into town. I can't remember who told me that. What is he like? - Yeah. He's that papa, that matua that I think a lot of us wish for. You know, for you and I are lucky, cos we got to grow up around some amazing men, orators, historians. And he is that. And I got to have him all the time at work, not just on the weekend wananga at the marae, which was something quite special. When he ran for the Tai Tokerau Maori seat in the '70s ` '74, I think it was; '74, '75 ` in those times, poor plane connection, poor roads. He lived with my grandfather during the campaign, cos my grandfather stood for National at the time. And so when we catch up, we don't talk politics ` he regales me with stories of my grandmother. Her baking, I can still smell it, you know. So that's my love for Uncle Winston. You know, we might not agree with some of the populism that's happening at the moment, but man, that fulla's got an amazing memory. And if you wanna inform yourself for the future, you've gotta know the past. - It's hard for me to talk with you without mentioning your dad and your mum. And we'll talk about Mum, but your dad obviously played a huge role in your life. He was with us when you became a politician ` what did he say? - The time that the Parliament was being sworn in, in my first time, in 2014, I wasn't there. You only get one ticket to that kaupapa, and I gave it to my father. And anyway, tana haerenga mai ki te Whare Paremata, he collapsed ` mate manawa. So I didn't go to the opening of Parliament, and the swearing-in ` I actually went to the hospital, tiaki taku papa. Well, I gave my maiden speech the next day. Kei te hohipera tonu a papa. And I said to him, 'Dad, Stay here. Look after you. 'Cos you're no good to us dead.' And then you'll see my maiden speech, which was, now that I reflect on it, quite koretake. I should have stuck to the marae formula. Eh, I tried to stick to the House of Parliament formula ` should have stuck to the marae formula. But anyway, right at the end, I look up, and I start crying, cos he checked himself out of hospital to be there, and he said to me, 'Son, I was always gonna be there mo to kauhau tuatahi, 'and I will be there when you become the Prime Minister.' Those were his words to me. - Your father was not short of giving sage advice,... - (GIGGLES) - ...even when you didn't want it. - Yes, that's exactly right. - What's the best piece of advice he ever gave you? - Our father was interesting, cos for most people, he'd speak in rhymes and riddles, and you had to work out, was he telling the truth, or was it a teka, or was there a tohutohu in there? But he was always clear with me ` buy a suit, sit on my shoulder and shut your mouth, and write about it when you get home. - Mm. - Those were the three instructions he gave me. - He said sit on his shoulder? - Yeah. - I used to see you and your twin brother sitting at his feet. - (LAUGHS) Pono. Pointing up. - People don't do that any more. - No. And, you know, cos most people think when you sit on his shoulder, it's like on the shoulder, but what it means is stand behind me and observe. - Describe the relationship you have with your twin brother. - Obviously, kopu tahi ` from the time of inception, we were together. And that meant too that we would often fight for spaces and space. And that meant that on many occasions, we would butt heads. But the ara was always made quite clear for us. My twin brother has the voice of an angel and a gift for telling our stories through waiata. We are so different in many ways that we acknowledge each other's uniqueness in that space. You know, the Parliament story is I was my first year as a minister and get a phone call from the reception, 'Uh, there's a gentleman here. He's a bit scruffy, 'and he's only speaking in Maori.' - He could have been one of many. - Yeah, that's right. - He could have been one of many people. (LAUGHS) - Pull the list out. Uncle Mangu was still alive. - Yeah! (LAUGHS) - And so he's sitting there, and I'm, like, 'Oh, what's he saying?' 'Well, he's demanding to see you, and he's only speaking in Maori.' - (GIGGLES) - And I said, 'Oh, OK.' And then while they're talking to me, he breaks out into a haka. - (GIGGLES) - And I'm, like, 'Oh,' so I go down. It's my twin brother. - (GIGGLES) - And not because of the institution, but simply because that's who he is. - Yeah. - That's the way he expresses himself. Gave him a big hug ` stand down, Security. - (GIGGLES) - It's just my brother. - But let's be honest ` the boss of the whanau is Tapeka. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - (GIGGLES) - Baby sister. - The baby sister? - Yeah. She pulls the strings, brings us together, forces us together. But more importantly, you know, while I might have grown up with my father and raised by my father, she holds my father's heart. She always has. - Yeah. And the one people forget is your mum, who is a tohunga in her own right. - Mum? Yeah. Mum's been that silent rock. When she speaks, you know it's coming straight from the heart. Because she rarely speaks, really. She allowed me to grow, uh, under the shadow of my father and the likes of my grandfather and others. And what she gave me was love. When I go around and go to the big hui, everyone talks about my grandfather. But then when the big speeches finish, everyone goes, 'How's Mum?' - Yeah. - Mum did the tukutuku panels in this whare, mum did the whariki that te Arikinui is sitting on at the moment. So I think, um, coming back to my mum's... just as good for me as me coming back for my girls. - Stay with us e nga iwi. We have even more from our korero with Peeni Henare after this. Kia ora mai ano. So, what's next? And what's happening now for Peeni Henare? Kia matakitaki ake ra tatou. There's two words on the street about you now, post your political career. There is a certain iwi, of a sizeable population, that is, um, yet to reach a settlement, uh, with the Crown. You may be aware of that iwi. Can't remember the name ` rhymes with rahui. - (LAUGHS) - What are you gonna do, and is that on the agenda? - If you look through all of the Treaty settlements in my time in Parliament, particularly when Finlayson was the minister, he would always say it ` 'Peeni, he's in the wrong place.' - He said it after you announced that you were leaving politics. - Yeah, yeah. He's always said, 'Peeni, you are wasted in Parliament. 'We actually need you amongst your people.' And at the time, I think it's just a throwaway comment to get under my skin. But it's always been something in my mind, because of the work that we did for the claims for Ngapuhi, and how much we were given the privilege of learning a lot of that stuff. So now, not only do I know the part for our people and Ngapuhi, but now I know how the machinery works and who the players are and how you can get these things moving forward. And, you know, Finlayson's valedictory, he says something along the lines of the one that got away was the big settlement for Ngapuhi. But only one person can get that done, and he's sitting in this house. I looked at Kelvin, and I said, 'You're up now, Kelvin.' (BOTH LAUGH) But it is on the agenda, because it has to be. It has to be. How? Well, that's something that we have to work out as a people, but it's something on my mind. - Is there something else that you're considering or have been approached? I mean, there was always talk about, you know, if National is really keen to do Labour over, was that they'd approach you, make you a diplomat overseas somewhere, and that gets you out of the play. Now, you are out of the play at the moment, but is that something you wanna do? Is that something you would look at? - It's something I'd consider. - Heaps of Ngapuhi London. (BOTH LAUGH) - True. - (LAUGHS) - As you know, my father was a foreign diplomat. - Mm. - I grew up in LA, cos he was the consulate general through the '80s, which is why I'm such a tragic Lakers fan. - (LAUGHS) - Um, but I can't, hand on heart, say I've left politics to spend time with my whanau, only to move overseas. So, you know, ultimately, if that offer ever did come, I'd have to consider that. The reason for leaving was because for the first time in 12 years, I got to see my kotiro paddle the waka at Waitangi, and for the first time, I actually got to see her do it. And, you know, so you can't hand on heart say, 'I'm leaving because of whanau,' only to be... - Are we keeping you from something? - Sorry. No, it was actually Chippy who just called. - (LAUGHS) - David Lange. - It's him doing the David Lange, 'I've changed my mind. Come back in.' - Yeah. (BOTH LAUGH) Um, what did Chippy want? - Oh, just, 'Kia ora, bro. Just checking in to see how you're going. 'Nothing urgent. Will speak soon.' - (CHUCKLES) Any regrets? - Always regrets. There's always regrets about, you know, could I have done more? Should I have done more? Did I make the right decision? And the biggest one ` story time again ` was when we were deciding the tikanga around hui mate during Covid. That's the most heartbreaking thing I've ever had to do ` tell our people, 'Kaore, you can only have 10 people. 'Kaore, you must bury on the same day.' And I took a lot ` they took a lot of heat from right around the country, and understandably so. One of the saddest things was after having made that announcement around those kaupapa, my father's sister died. Te wahine a kopa. And I couldn't go home. And we had to bury our aunty the same day. Do you know what I mean? So those are the hard times where you question yourself, whether or not you made the right decision, whether or not you could have done more. - Yeah, yeah. Those aren't easy calls, eh, as a politician, cos, you know, you feel like your ngakau Maori is still. So, what are the impacts? I mean, do you lose friends? - Most definitely. You find your circle gets smaller, as you progress through politics, but you learn to have thick skin, because, for a heated exchange on Facebook or Instagram or whatever it might be, you know that when you see those people, it's actually very different. When we were pushing the vaccine, and, of course, Maori were lagging, we were... I was travelling the country, trying to get the vaccine rates up amongst our people and got told, 'Don't come to these areas, or we'll kill you,' you know? And some of those areas were our own people, our own whanaunga. And that was difficult, man ` that was so hard. And now we go back, and I don't harbour anything negative or ill feeling towards these people. And they see me and they give me a hug and appreciate that it was pretty exceptional times. - What do you think it's gonna feel like, not being there? - And that's the challenge for me. I gotta rediscover myself in many respects, cos it has been my life. The red-eye flight on the Monday, back on a Friday kind of a thing ` um, 80- to 90-hour weeks was just the norm. And now I've got an opportunity to step back, catch my breath and say, 'What are the things that I've loved, 'that I've given up?' Wananga's one of those things. So I'm looking forward to just the other day, I sat up all evening reading my grandfather's book and just went, 'Oh, that's right.' You know, I spent 12 years in Parliament trying to lose weight. I announced the decision, and, man, I feel lighter. (BOTH LAUGH) - Will you miss it? - Yeah, of course. Man. You miss the conversations. You miss, um, the platform that being a politician gives you. But I was always clear ` that's the difference between rangatira and politics and being a politician. You know, there are just as important platforms to now engage myself in. But I will miss the people. I worked it out ` I had 37 staff in my time through my ministerial career. If I remember correctly, I had... nine portfolios, might be 10, and four associate portfolios. You know, and in that space, I met thousands of people, and some amazing people. So I miss the people part and that sort of stuff, but I certainly don't miss the long hours. You know, I remember doing Cabinet reading one weekend, and it was just over 4500 pages, and you had to read it all on a Sunday to be prepared for the Monday. And that's just... it's not humanly possible. - Yeah. You mentioned that your papa was there, at your maiden speech, in 2014, and, well, no, he will be there for your valedictory, but he won't be there in person. Yeah. So thinking about that and your dad, what do you think he'd make of your career as a politician, now? - Hoki mai ki te kainga. Parau i te whenua. Whakaritehia te mara. Yeah. He would have been quite clear that that chapter's closed, and it's time now to focus on a new one. And, you know, I don't speak of it often, because, as you know, my father died after a meeting in the offices in Parliament. So he died in Wellington. And one of the biggest struggles for me is the place where I worked was a living memorial to him ` a tombstone to him, if you will. And so I felt him and saw him in everything I did. So he was certainly part of that journey. But now, in departing that place, I can leave that there. - A kati kore nga kai. Kei tika te korero a Te Hui i tenei wa. We will bring you much more from te ao Maori next week on The Hui. Until then e nga iwi kia mau ki te turanga a Taputapuatea. Haumi e, hui e, taiki e! Captions by Faith Hamblyn. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2026 - Ko te reo te take. - Na Te Puna Whakatongarewa Te Hui i tautoko.