(STUDENTS CLAMOUR) (CHEERING) For over a century in the amateur era, an ambitious New Zealand schoolboy had a clearly defined roadmap to rugby greatness ` make your school's first 15, then club, province and country. In the professional era, that roadmap was torn to shreds. (PERFORMS HAKA) (HAKA CONTINUES) (DRAMATIC MUSIC) Today, an ambitious New Zealand schoolboy will think nothing about facing big crowds or being judged for his skills on live TV. (CHEERING) Life was different, you know. It was way, way different than it is today, and the pressures on our young people, the scrutiny on them ` it's completely changed. (CHEERING, WHISTLING) We talk about rugby as a professional sport, but I don't think that's real rugby. What is professionalism gonna bring to our game that might ruin the amateur values of it? Ultimately, in professional rugby, the only thing that really matters is the result. (BUILDING MUSIC) (WHISTLE BLOWS) REFEREE: Full time. Today's player will know by the time he walks out of his school gates that if he hasn't got a professional contract in his back pocket, then he can not only forget higher honours; any chance he has of a professional career in rugby is probably over. (THUNDEROUS MUSIC) Captions by Alex Stone. Edited by Chelsea Brady. Captions were made with the support of NZ On Air. www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019 (CROWD CHEERS) (CROWD CHEERS, FIREWORKS SQUEAL) On March 1st 1996, across three Southern Hemisphere cities, the first ever professional rugby games were played, in a tournament called Super Rugby. Overlooked amid the buzz and fun and excitement was the new reality. The power of the IRB was gone for good. It was open season on who controlled rugby. The sport was now part of the entertainment industry, and while the Southern Hemisphere was centre stage, the north would soon discover how ruthless showbiz can be. ARCHIVE: The sport of rugby union is to become fully professional. The amateur ethic that has been its hallmark for 125 years is to be ended next month. They did it overnight, didn't they? One day, you're an amateur; the next day, you're professional, and that brought its own problems. When the game went professional, no one knew what to do ` how to train, contracts, what the season should look like. It was exciting, but all experimental. How much can you get paid? Nobody knew. How much does a prop get? No idea. How much does a scrum-half from Argentina get? No idea. I left my day job. I had a day job for 10 years as a chartered surveyor, and that` We were off. Players like Jonah Lomu could earn �80,000 a season. I think we all signed five-year contracts the first year, even if they were 31 or 32. (CHUCKLES) I think they started realising, 'Oh, actually, you know, might need to recruit some other players.' I think, even by the end of the first year, I remember there was a dispute with` a few of our players had been offered more money to go and play somewhere else. And I remember thinking, 'Well, how's that club going to afford that contract?' And lo and behold, that club was bankrupt before Christmas. Graham Henry said, 'The problem here`' He said, 'You've got enough talent 'to sustain three top-class teams.' And I just said, 'Three?' I said, 'You can't get rid of nine teams!' They thought every player that played rugby had to get paid. How bloody ridiculous is that? You can believe me that there'll be quite a few clubs bankrupt before very long. Players at Bristol were called in this afternoon to hear the worst. Ticket sales shot up 20%, but without big TV deals, revenue couldn't keep pace with costs. The game was in a state of flux. You know, from one season to the next, you didn't know who you were playing against. You didn't know the competitions you were playing in. REPORTER: Never in the history of British sport has a national side gone on strike, but England's rugby union players have done just that. Nah, I don't wanna speak. The thing that probably all of us would say is that the lack of planning at world level was the thing that is now still causing problems. All of the sudden, as the game went professional, what does that mean? Well, it means, you know, there are winners and losers. (BRASS BAND PLAYS UPBEAT MUSIC) Bankrolled by Rupert Murdoch's TV millions, professional rugby in the Southern Hemisphere was a winner from the start. (MUSIC CONTINUES) I think in Australia, we were probably better prepared for it. And we were gonna compete in this competition, Super Rugby, which was an existing competition anyway that just had the opportunity to expand a bit. Nothing really changed. We continued to work. We tried to keep everything as normal as it was. (CROWD CHEERS) Rugby quickly borrowed from the other professional sports and packaged itself on pay TV and broadcast networks as an audience-friendly, mass-market product. New Zealand Rugby saw the big picture. We took the view at the New Zealand Rugby Union the most important assets we had were our coaches and our players, and we were gonna contract both of them centrally. England made it the Wild, Wild West because they didn't do that. They didn't have the money in the bank that the Southern Hemisphere had, because the Sky money hadn't come into the north, and we all know what happens when you leave a void; somebody jumps into it. It was a massive escape. It could have all gone horribly, horribly wrong. What saved English rugby was people who were rugby fans. They came in to fund individual teams. And England had no plans whatsoever, apart from that. 'Sugar daddy' is probably not my favourite term to be called, but there we are. I'd obviously been a huge rugby fan, played the game at a lousy level, and I saw it going professional, and without understanding what was involved, I thought, 'Wow, that would be great to get involved with that.' Investor Nigel Wray acquired London's Saracens. Northern developer Sir John Hall rebranded Gosforth as Newcastle. Copper trader Ashley Levett took control of grand old Richmond. It was extraordinary, really. I can remember having a conversation as to whether we should have a full-time coach. I think we've got about 12 now. They started paying huge salaries ` you know, double, treble. They signed a lot of big players. I've never seen so much money being exchanged between clubs. For example, I was a world-record transfer fee of �1.7M. One guy stood up in the crowd with his hailer and shouts out, 'You are a waste of money. You're a waste of money. 'Who's a waste of money?' And the whole crowd stood up and started chanting it ` 'You are a waste of money. You're a waste of money.' (LAUGHS) But that's how professionalism was all about. People will only pay you what you're worth, and then they move you on. I was in Newcastle when Sir John said, 'Well, pay their wages at the end of February, 'and then after that, no more money. 'If we don't find somebody who's got a chequebook, (IMITATES CRUNCHING) the doors close.' Every single one of us in this circle must be fucking star power! We don't let it fucking drop. 100% commitment, 100% fucking effort! Keep your talk up. Keep your fucking effort here, boys, and we'll come away with a fucking W. ...two, three. (ALL YELL) Let's go, lads. While Newcastle survived, some of rugby's most illustrious names simply found the going too tough. (CROWD CLAMOURS) Some big clubs got burnt. There'd been a lot of optimism around, as there is sometimes with these things, and then the harsh reality kicks in. So, Rosslyn Park took the decision to become an amateur club. Been a fantastic club side ` real good spirit, very, very good team. They just couldn't have the commercial clout to retain their players and stay in the first division. You knew that was the death knell for them. They went down and never been back. A lot of bad decisions would be made. All of it with the best intention ` well-meaning. We put four professional clubs in. We didn't have enough resources in terms of finance and of players. Went back down to two, and I don't mean, sort of, little man syndrome, but that's what we had. When the game went professional, it hurt us badly. We just couldn't cope. We didn't know how to do it; that's the main thing. A lot of our clubs went bankrupt. Our boys were valley boys. Some of them were just ordinary shopkeepers or steelworkers. All of a sudden, now they're committee men handling big money. Didn't know how to do it. And suddenly, there were these, kind of, shotgun marriages of different geographical areas, and it was really hard, because the valleys took the hit. With Rhondda, Bridgend, Pontypridd, it's taken a lot of adaptation, and it still causes a lot of heartache. (CHEERING) In the northern hemisphere, it was every club for itself, but there was one player who made everything seem rosy. ALL: Ka mate, ka mate, ka ora... Jonah Lomu was rugby's first undisputed TV superstar. COMMENTATOR: He's gone through Healey as well, and the big man's gonna... You have to, more or less, get two people on him at once. If you wanna bring him down, I suggest you bring a baseball bat. Television is not your enemy if you're a sports league. Television is not only your best friend, it has to be your wife, your mistress. It's the most important thing you can possibly have. And for Murdoch's News Corp, part of making rugby bigger was erasing the conventions holding the game back. We pleaded with them, you know, 'Look, night-time rugby will get a far bigger viewing audience.' I know the traditionals like to see the sun and dry fields and that sort of thing, but at the end of the day, night-time rugby turned out to be super successful. Thanks to TV, one of rugby's most venerated institutions was successfully rebooted ` The British and Irish Lions. That badge, we've always said, represents four ` your own country and three others, but what also goes into it... is you. Whatever's special to you, the people who've brought you to this place ` that's who you should be wearing it for. If it matters to you, it'll matter to all of us. If it matters to all of us, we'll win. By 2000, rugby was accepted as a natural fit on TV. The Five Nations had expanded to make room for Italy and 60 million potential viewers. The European Cup, designed to attract British and European audiences, was a spectacular ratings success. Finally, players were reaping the benefits of training full-time. They started to become fitter, faster, bigger. It made them more attractive as species, beings, things to look at. It made them more newsworthy. And from the mid-'90s onwards, rugby was suddenly a thing. The standards of everything seemed to be getting higher and higher. Rugby become faster, more skilful ` a better watch. (WHISTLE BLOWS) COMMENTATOR: That's absolutely brilliant again. In my day, it was a mess, the line-out. Argy-bargy. I love the line-out now. I think it's a work of art. The coach was now head of a coaching setup. I remember when we played England at Twickenham, and Clive Woodward had his dozen assistants there, and he looked at me, and he said, 'Graham, do you think you four can beat us 12?' But clubs and country had different agendas. Cracks between them grew. And there was this big gap between the RFU and the clubs, because these owners had come in. So, I was, like, trying to create a team with people I didn't pay or had no allegiance to me outside of being the England coach. We were always followers, rather than pioneers. 'What are New Zealand doing? What are Australia doing? What are South Africa doing?' You know, the southern hemisphere was where it was at, and we took real bad beatings, really hard-to-take, disappointing defeats where we weren't good enough. Simple as that ` we weren't good enough, and we got beaten. There was a big step-change in approach, and I remember Clive saying, 'I want all of you here to be household names, because no one knows who you are at the moment, 'and that's fine; you know, there's no reason why they should. 'But I want to put rugby on the map in this country, 'and I want all of you guys to be people that will be remembered.' After 25 years of southern squeeze-outs at the World Cup, the northern hemisphere badly needed a win. In the buildup to that 2003 World Cup final, the story was on every channel. We're getting messages from the Queen, from prime ministers, and we've just gotta go, 'Guys, just park all that. Just park everything. 'We've just gotta focus on this next game.' (DRAMATIC MUSIC) (CROWD CHEERS) (WHISTLE BLOWS) I remember watching it, not knowing a huge amount about rugby at the time, but understanding what a classic sports moment is when you see it. I think that was really the first time that a non-rugby public in Britain suddenly knew the names of the players. It was amazing, the day after that World Cup, how many more people, like, from my area in North London, started to know what rugby was. A lady stopped me, one-on-one, and said, 'Oh, well done. Well done.' Now, that wasn't ever happening before we won World Cup. They suddenly saw Jonny Wilkinson show up in ads with David Beckham. Jonny Wilkinson was a brand immediately. We went out of our way to put him on our next cover. We scrapped whoever was meant to be on that cover. ON LOUDSPEAKER: Lawrence Dallaglio, Martin Johnson... (CROWD CHEERS) People came out just celebrating a sport which had always been, kind of, perceived to be for a different type of person. But for the first time, I saw people from all over the country, from different walks of life, come and support the England men's team. It was absolutely brilliant. (CHEERING CONTINUES) Gotta win a World Cup ` that's what it is. Everyone loves a winner. * (ATMOSPHERIC MUSIC) Rugby has been played here for over 100 years, and it's been played on that piece of land for 100 years. The rugby team is the heart and soul of the city. It's a significant part of what the city stands for. On game day, the city comes alive. For me, you take that out, you take a big part of the city away. I ran a pharmaceutical logistics company. When my business was sold, I thought, 'There's a great opportunity to go back 'and try and create something significant in Bath.' (RISING MUSIC) (PLAYERS GRUNT) In the professional era, top English clubs, like Bath, were owned by individuals, but taking over a club comes with a price tag. To stay afloat, owners have been forced to lend millions of pounds of their own money. Financial clout meant rugby clubs could now attract the very best players from anywhere. This had big ramifications for international rugby's ecosystem. I think there has been a continual drift now to the power drifting from the southern hemisphere, who had always controlled it, to the northern hemisphere controlling it. And it comes down to a lovely thing called money. On both sides of the Channel, billionaire owners attached themselves to legacy clubs in search of passion projects or television publicity and ran budgets the south could only dream about. Racing is owned by Jacky Lorenzetti. He is a billionaire, yes, but Montpellier is owned by a billionaire as well. Stade Francais is owned by a billionaire, so you need someone with money. In both England and France today, there is little difference between how rugby and soccer operate. Like soccer, rugby's elite clubs have state-of-the-art facilities, the best support and the financial means to attract leading players from all over the world. Rugby on TV is a huge product. The broadcast deals have doubled and tripled as audience appetite for rugby keeps growing. But for most owners, any profit is in the distant future. If I'd known what was involved at the start of professionalism ` the money that it would take, the emotion that it would take ` I'd never have got involved. I am an idiot, but not that much of an idiot. There's probably been �300 million to �400 million of losses to the clubs, which is money that is being put in by the club owners. (LIVELY MUSIC) Across the Channel, France's Top 14 has grown in popularity year over year. France's TV market is now double the size of England's. In part, this was thanks to an owner who truly understood that rugby's first duty was always to entertain ` Max Guazzini. He was from the show business. Madonna was his friend. The Moulin Rouge came to the changing rooms. It was` It just` It was Paris. (CROWD CHEERS, HORNS BLOW) In Paris, the media have always been part of the city's fabric, and in the early 2000s, Stade Francais and rival Racing 92 would regularly outdo each other to capture the fascination of the public. We did some... strange things, like the calendar ` naked calendar. I will never forget just looking at each other, all dressed in pink. Just the walk of shame, like I called it. They're shouting, with all their strength, how much they didn't like us ` all dressed in pink. Really, it changed the view of the public from rugby. Rugby started to be for everybody. 80,000 people in the Stade de France for the first time, all dressed in pink. I think it's a world record. He said, 'OK, free for women, free for children.' It was great for the game, and people loved him, and he just loved the game. And, you know, when they invest a lot of money, they like to win as well. * (FOREBODING MUSIC) In Paris, rugby's traditions mattered less than the potential for what might come. France's property development king and Racing 92 owner, Jackie Lorenzetti, relocated his club to the heart of the city and built a unique sports and entertainment complex. The arena now hosts over a million spectators a year. (CROWD CHANTS, BANGS RHYTHMICALLY) (ENERGETIC MUSIC) (CROWD CHEERS) (SPEAKS FRENCH) You watch the games in there ` it's like going to a rock concert. But it's gonna be entertainment. Professional rugby is entertainment. Lorenzetti's business plan was simple. He wouldn't be funding Racing's future; the arena would. (SPEAKS FRENCH) To keep filling the arena, Racing must continue to win and to attract global rugby stars. (SPEAKS FRENCH) This process has been massively disruptive for international rugby, yet the French have felt the impact more than most. (SPEAKS FRENCH) That's French, you know? You have to hit yourself. Why? Even the southwest is not immune. The glory days of the village and small-town clubs, once the heartbeat of the region, are now all but over in the Top 14. (DRAMATIC MUSIC) A club like Pau can only compete because of its corporate sponsorship from the third-biggest oil company in the world, Total. Total is the number one company in France, so we expect the Section to be at the right level. I think the chance to see some world champions, some former All Blacks playing here in Pau ` well, that's great for us. (SPEAKS FRENCH) (PERCUSSIVE MUSIC) France has an unexpected rival in buying and attracting whatever players it wants ` Japan's corporate clubs. Coca-Cola, Panasonic, Suntory ` all pay for teams. (SPEAKS JAPANESE) They take care of everything. You know, housing ` they take care of car; they take care of everything else. You know, that and the season ` you get a few months off ` that's one of the reasons why it's so attractive to go there. But the premium contracts and the age of big money are driving a further wedge between clubs and countries. (CROWD CHEERS) If they play all the international games, it means our fans don't see the players ` their heroes, the guys they wanna see every week. It means that maybe we don't qualify for Europe. It's a crazy system. And as long as that conflict exists, it will always be destructive to the game. Meanwhile, the power of English clubs continues to grow, and the Premiership is now valued at over $1 billion. Clubs do have such a strong position, and, unfortunately, it's the players that get caught in the middle, and they're getting pulled by both sides. Obviously, when they invest millions in their club, they want a return. Everything in rugby now had a value and a price tag, especially tradition. The Lions, the Six Nations, the international calendar ` what were they worth? If we both want to have the same players on the same afternoon or wanna drive the same car on the same afternoon, obviously there'd be an argument over who drives the car. You become an asset, and so they wanna protect their asset. The pressure to keep winning, on everybody, is relentless. (SPEAKS FRENCH) Story today's the easiest one this year. Just go out and fucking play. Go and fucking play and don't have any regrets at the end of the day. I just need a little bit more today, OK? Let's find it. (SPEAKS FRENCH) You won't find it on your fucking own. Be fucking physical in what you do ` tackle, clean-out, ruck work, line-out work, scrum, drive. Be fucking physical. Pas de regrets. No fucking regrets. Let's go and make something special happen. (CROWD CHEERS) (SOLEMN PIANO MUSIC) (MUSIC CONTINUES) (CROWD CHEERS) The amateur ideal says that you don't do things for money. You do it to pursue certain ideals. Professional sport is something totally different. The world is now a consumer world. It's now a world in which you do do things for money. It's a world in which you change jobs quite quickly, and sport is just one of those jobs, and sport is just one of those consumables. (ANNOUNCER SPEAKS FRENCH) (SOLEMN MUSIC CONTINUES) (CROWD CHEERS) (SOLEMN MUSIC CONTINUES) What makes you happy? Knowing that you could, if you wanted to? Like, you could get the legendary off-road performance of a Land Cruiser Prado VX - if you wanted to. You could tow a boat towing a hippo. You could chauffeur royalty with leather interior and heated seats. Plus, with Toyota Safety Sense tech, like Lane Departure Alert and Autonomous Emergency Breaking, you could say it's nearly as smart as you. If you wanted to. And you could drive it away for just $79,990. * (DRAMATIC MUSIC) (INDISTINCT CHATTER) (LAUGHTER) (DRAMATIC MUSIC CONTINUES) Rugby's the infant and the new kid on the block, so it's a little surprising that it has gotten such traction so quickly. Rugby is a far more honest game now. Its support and its professionalism have grown tremendously in the last 20 years. We're a complex game, and we have to understand our point of difference, and our point of difference is that we're a true global sport. Here we are in Monaco. Precisely, yeah. World Rugby Breakthrough Player of the Year. (APPLAUSE) Players are now getting paid $1 million a year or �1 million a year to play rugby. Did any of us foresee that? Probably not. But with hindsight, you look back and go, 'Well, that was inevitable as well.' Johnny Sexton. (CHEERING, APPLAUSE) Modern rugby is as professional as any sport that exists. TV revenue is no longer measured in millions, but in the billions. But beneath the sequins and polished veneer, this is a game still evolving. It is now a world game, and you're seeing lots of commercial interests attacking that world game. I mean, the clubs will never really get on with a bureaucratic system. I mean, they thought that they ruled the game, but they can't. It's a professional game. The world has moved on. (INSPIRING STRING MUSIC) The premier viewing event is the Rugby World Cup. Today, World Rugby must compete with clubs, national unions, broadcasters and private equity for its place at the rugby table. And the power of television, with its insatiable appetite for new audiences, keeps on increasing. The gem in World Rugby's crown is the Rugby World Cup, and it changes everything. (LIGHT GUITAR MUSIC) While most countries have modernised in lockstep, Argentina clung to amateurism for more than two decades. To make a living, their best players found work across the global club network. Going into the 2007 World Cup, the Pumas faced an uphill battle. AGUSTIN PICHOT: Argentina was completely disorganised. We are all round the world. We have no structure. We have no support internationally. We're just one more that makes the cut. 'Come in, enjoy yourself, get a free drink, and just leave.' And we knew that. (CROWD CHEERS) Not many times in your life when you can write history. That was our time. (DRAMATIC MUSIC) We were, like, the underdogs, big time, and we beat France twice. We beat Ireland, beat Scotland; it's crazy. We're just making something special. The whole country was going mad. Even the most famous soccer game in Argentina, Boca vs River Plate, was knocked off the schedule for the Pumas. From out of nowhere, Argentina took third place. It was one of the biggest upsets in rugby history. We were not world champions, but it felt really good what we'd achieved. (SPEAKS SPANISH) The feeling of achievement that you can do wearing your national shirt, representing all those people and just being in peace with yourself, that has no price. The Pumas performance caught the eye of rugby's broadcasters, hungry for new faces and untapped markets, and in 2016, that success translated to their first professional club, the Jaguares. Suddenly, winning meant more than just bringing home trophies. Rugby has joined the world of global sport. It's a product. Teams compete against each other for eyeballs and sponsors. And there's nothing they like more than a winner. The ref's whistle goes for the end of the match. Just 20 years ago, Ireland had slipped badly behind the other British nations. Italy, bouncing with potential and oozing confidence, was invited to join the Six Nations. A great future was expected. But the tables have turned. Ireland began 2019 as the top team in the world, beating everyone, afraid of nobody. Like, you weren't cocky or anything, you just had a confidence that, 'Yeah, we have good players. Why can't we win it?' Italy was stuck at the bottom of the heap. We lost the last 20 years, so we have to work faster to win. They're fighting for their future, with questions being asked about why they're allowed to compete at all. When you professionalise a sport, I think winning takes on a slightly different cast. Winning is important for the viability of the team. You have to create value for your fans, for your players and for your sponsors. To do that, you have to win. (DRAMATIC MUSIC) The essence of sport sponsorship is to perform brilliantly. It gives them a property of heroes to work with. Cos that's the modern society that we live in. People, you know, want instant gratification. 'That's it, and I want to see my team winning.' ANNOUNCER: And it is Ireland, 54-7. Staying on top requires money ` lots of money ` and to attract that money means rugby teams must fulfil the first commandment of professional sport, 'Thou shalt win.' * (SOLEMN MUSIC) Attended by dukes and earls, this national institution was an audition for players on the path to an English or Welsh cap. Today, the Oxbridge game is on the path to obsolescence. The challenges faced with some of the historic things is their place in the hierarchy of rugby has changed, and it's changed significantly, and it's changed forever. And there's a simple reason for that. Every time you bring in a competition over the top of a competition, it diminishes interest in it. If you look at the game being played now at the professional level, it's fantastic to watch. I love watching it, and it's a far better game than it was. What you've lost is the feeling of being part of a club ` socialising with your teammates, with the opposition, all those things. They just turn up and play and go home. We've gained something, but I think we've also lost a lot. Camaraderie, friendship, those values ` I thought it might disappear with professionalism. How do you pass that down when you're so motivated`? Everything in the modern game is about winning. It's interesting. In fact, the players seem to try to hold on to it. They're very keen on them still, and it's, sort of, survived rather better than I thought it might. And is it all good, what's happened? No, I don't think it is. There'll be those that pine for the old days, but they ain't coming back. (UPBEAT MUSIC) In the country where television took professional sport to the ultimate level, one rugby team found its niche. You walk in the streets of Manhattan, you ask anybody, 'Which is the country that is good at rugby?' They'll say New Zealand. They may not know anything else about the sport, but they do know that, and they know that famous dance. The haka? I mean, the haka's huge in America. # Ka mate, ka mate, ka ora. # Ka mate, ka mate, ka ora. # It's the thing that the guys who win all the rugby trophies do. I was completely astounded when I started researching the All Blacks, and I'm not somebody who astounds easily in this area, because I've looked at every team in the history of sports. This country of four million people dominates the world ` I mean, countries with 15, 20, 30 times the population. New Zealand had a winning record against every other rugby country in the world. And it's not just right then. It was all the way back, more than 100 years. Even though it's in the wrong place on the map and the wrong time zone, New Zealand rugby always had its legacy. You know, there's a lot of history in that jersey. Who's worn that jersey? Do I respect them, and am I gonna play for them? Responsibility when you put on the jersey of an All Black is huge. Pure blood and sweat and pride. No opposition is more intimidating than the legacy. The All Blacks' extraordinary success made a German sportswear manufacturer and an American insurer willing to pay millions for their brands to be worn by a rugby team from the edge of the world. Yes, please, every day, thank you, Adidas. Something like 91% of all the revenue that drives this fantastic All Black machine comes from foreign earnings. It's a miracle of branding, really, and especially over the last few years where they've fully embraced that. (BIRDSONG) But continued investment has one important qualification; New Zealand rugby must remain successful. They must continue to be a TV sensation from school to Super Rugby to country. Keeping that pipeline flowing requires a new generation of heroes be found. I remember the All Blacks turn up, and off the bus came Grant Batty, who was one of my childhood heroes. I loved it. But just to see him in the flesh and to actually, like, just touch him. We all have dreams of trying to become an All Black. It was like a combination of being an astronaut and also being a film star. It was everything, you know. We used to play on the front lawn. We'd play on the riverbank. We'd play on the road. And then we sat down in front of the television to name the All Blacks squad. As long as that continues, that burning desire, the All Blacks are gonna continue to be successful. (GRANDIOSE MUSIC) (MUSIC CONTINUES) Still some guys, especially at Twickenham, who didn't want the game to go professional, didn't like it going professional. They thought it would change. 'Will players still shake hands after the game? Will they have a drink after the game?' I said, 'Guys, you know, I think this could be even better.' Uh, I worry about the world sometimes, but not about the rugby. It will survive. It will survive, even in France, you know, and that's a lot of work, but it will survive. (POIGNANT MUSIC) www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2019