(INTRIGUING ORCHESTRAL MUSIC) - I'm Matt Chisholm. In a lot of ways, my life was looking pretty good ` a beautiful family and a dream job that was getting pretty wild. - BOTH: Celebrity Treasure Island. - Deep down, though, I was the unhappiest I'd ever been. This is something I posted on social media. READS: 'I'm buggered. My head hurts. It's not working as well as it was. 'I promised my old workmate Greg Boyed, before he died from depression, I'd go see the doc.' I worked at TVNZ for 12 years, and Greg worked here for almost all of that time. 'We talked a lot and shared a lot, and so it was Greg I sat down with when I was really struggling.' I actually came away from that conversation with Greg that day thinking that he was in a better place than me. But we all know what happened. - It's with sadness and heavy hearts we mourn the sudden death of our friend and colleague Greg Boyed. - So I packed in the job and moved my family down south to Central Otago. It hasn't always been plain sailing, but it works for me. Don't, whatever you do, burn yourself, cos Mum will` - Hot. Hot. - Hot. Yeah. - I feel like he was still a fantastic dad, but he's certainly kind of... come back to me, I guess, since he's been here. And they are very lucky, and I'm very lucky, that we have him. - The doctor said, 'Right. We need to get you on some medication.' He said, 'You need to start doing some exercise.' I'd forgotten that running and physical activity was so good for the noggin. But, shit, I needed to throw the kitchen sink at it, and I did throw the kitchen sink at getting myself well again, because I knew just how good life could be. 'Over half of us will experience mental illness or distress in our life, but guys do it really tough. 'It's men who are three times more likely to end their own life.' - Are you worried that he's gonna harm himself? - We lose a good Kiwi bloke every day. - Stress and anxiety is the new norm, and we're starting to wear it like a badge, and that's bullshit. - I found my way back. - Oh, yeah! - (CHUCKLES) - I want to find out how we help husbands and friends and brothers who haven't yet. Are any of you finding this slightly awkward, or`? - No. - No? Are we talking about it enough? Is talking about it enough? - I'm the new host. - (LAUGHS) We'll often say, 'Are you man enough?' - Are All Blacks allowed to cry? - Oh, hell yeah. - (BOTH CHUCKLE) How does that play for the rest of us? - You should be tough enough to get through it. Just harden up. (CHUCKLES) - Is the pressure to be a Kiwi man killing us, and can it be stopped? www.able.co.nz Copyright Able 2020 # There is no depression in New Zealand. # - There is no depression in New Zealand. Well, we know for a fact there is loads of depression, and that's why we are here today. Matt Chisholm in the studio. Are we man enough to talk about it? - Yeah. We are. We're travelling the country. We're doing a documentary on men's mental health. We're trying to figure out why men often don't talk about their struggles. And we're also trying to work out what it means to be a man in 2020. Is the Kiwi man changing? I'm not sure. See, now I'm a teetotaller, right? - Yeah. - I'm a teetotaller who talks about my feelings. Jeez. - (LAUGHS) - Am I actually a man? - Are you OK? - There's gotta be something wrong with me, doesn't there? You know? - Well, that's why we're talking about it, cos there is something wrong with us, but we're working through it. - Yeah. When I grew up, you know, playing rugby, drinking booze, all of those things, you had to be tough. You had to be strong. I had the southern man posters on my wall, taken out of the pub. That was who we felt like... certainly who I felt like I had to live up to, - out in the hills with his dogs. - Mm. - I don't think they were talking about struggling, in the top paddock. (ENGINE TURNS OVER) And the paddocks in my new neighbourhood seem an ideal place to start my journey. This is Lumsden, and I reckon you have to be a pretty tough bloke to be a farmer here. Rural men, on average, have had a higher suicide rate than townies. Perhaps there are reasons that explain our nationwide problem. I'm on my way to meet someone who might know, give him a hand with the morning chores. 'Might have been an idea to check what they were.' - Just drying a few cows off today, Matt. - So how do you do that? - Gotta be nice and clean and tidy and` - Speaking of being tidy... - Yep. That's exactly the reason why. - Can you not stop them doing that? - Unfortunately, no, no. That's an act of nature. - (CHUCKLES) - I'll show you how it's done. - 'Reckon Jason's thrown me in the deep end here.' Uh, far out. I didn't really pay a lot of attention that first time round. - Yeah. Grab the teat nicely. - Hopefully she's gonna be a nice cow. (CHUCKLES) - (GRUNTS) - (METAL CLANGS) - Oh, yeah! - (CHUCKLES) See. That's it. - That's it. I'll tell you what, it's not a bad office, this. - Absolutely stunning. I love it every day. Yep. - Have you always? - No. There has been trying times. You know, there are pressures that come with this job. We like to isolate ourselves. We like to get on and work hard. And we do. We do a lot of long hours. And when the weather's rough, we don't just sit at home and leave the animals to it. My mental health was deteriorating. And it's not something that you do realise at the time. And it had been building up for a wee while. I just sort of lost it, and I sat down on the corner of my cow shed, and to be honest, I cried. My brain just went snap. And that's the funny thing about it. - It's a funny organ, the old brain. - Isn't it? - And you don't have a whole lot of control over it when it wants to take over. - Yeah. - You know, I do find it hard to talk about, because I did feel ashamed after the fact. But I was suicidal. And if it wasn't for the right person on the right day and using technology to find me, I wouldn't be here. And... I thank that fella. I really do. I always thought it was a sign of weakness to say that you're not well, that you're not happy. - What do you think about that attitude now? - Oh, complete reversal. It's OK to talk. Everybody's gotta have someone to talk to, whether it's your closest friend, whether it's your father or mother, your wife, your partner or whatever. And I still have tough days. I still go through those anxieties and still have depression. But it's seeking the right help and talking to the right people. - I get this, because I'm with you. - Yeah. - I've been where you've been. But a lot of people watching this will think you and I are a couple of buttercups. - Yep. - Won't they? - Yep. And that sits well with me. I don't care any more. You know, they can think that of me. It's how you deal with it and get on your bike, so to speak, and move on. - I want to find out more from Jason about what he did to change things, so I invited myself to lunch. With help from his partner, Sandy, Jason not only changed his own life; he employed a life coach and set up the rural trust Ag Proud. When Jason put up his hand and said, 'I need help,' what was that like for you? Relief. It was definitely relief. Acknowledging it is always the first step. So, um, from there, it was only up from there. - Mm. And now he's helping other people. - Yeah. Which is amazing. - And Jason's happy to share one of his key learnings ` having some alone time away from work. - Are you sure you're keen for this, Matt? - Yeah, mate. I'm keen for this. Thank you very much for the use of the shorts. - You're most welcome. - Although they're bit loose at the front and tight at the bank. - I wonder why that is. - (CHUCKLES) - I've got another wee treat here for ya. - The Butt Butter. - Yeah. The Butt Butter. - (CHUCKLES) - It's something us cyclists use, and it'll help you immensely, to be honest. - OK, mate. Thanks very much. - (CHUCKLES) - Might have to go elsewhere for this. See you in about 15 minutes. - Yeah, mate. Yep. - So how often do you get out for a ride? - Every second day if I can. But if I feel like going for a ride, I'll just go for a ride. By doing what I'm doing ` exercising, looking after my mental well-being ` the pressure has come off the farm immensely. So now a totally different perspective. So, everything goes well, and if anything goes wrong at work, it'll be right. It'll be there tomorrow. - Yeah. - You know? - So, mate, the sun's out most days for you now? - Yeah. Even when it's raining. - (CHUCKLES) - Even when it's raining, you gotta be positive. - Good boy. - You know? - Cos the sun will eventually come out. - Yeah. Southland now! (BOTH CHUCKLE) - That's OK. Well, tell me what's been going on. - How many calls and texts are you receiving? - 25,000 to 30,000 calls a month, kind of territory. - But the one that's alarming to us is this one here. 339 of them were from our industry. * (CURIOUS MUSIC) - To understand just how deep this problem goes, I'm heading back to the city, to the epicentre ` one of 1737's crisis call and tech centres. - Kia ora. Welcome to Need to Talk. You're speaking with Maya. - How are you tonight? - Well, tell me what's been going on. - These 1737 counsellors work around the clock, providing a lifeline for anyone who needs a sympathetic ear. - Are you worried that he's gonna harm himself? - Even though men are much more likely to die from harming themselves, women are much more likely to call this line. - About a third of the people who call here are men. So you might say, 'Well, not enough men are,' and that's true. But for a variety of reasons, women find it easier to both talk to their mates, ring a place like this. There's still a core reality that for men to talk about feelings that matter is really tough. - Yeah. Yeah. Has it been quite tough for you in the lockdown? You're feeling stuck and hopeless at the moment, right? But it's good that you reached out. You know, you reached out to us. You made that brave move. And it sounds like, you know, you've been putting on that brave face and trying very hard for so long. Yeah. Does anyone else know how you're feeling? Any friends or...? So, I know you feel alone right now, and I know you feel like a burden, but you're doing the right thing, and this will pass. - So, how many calls and texts are you receiving? - 25,000 to 30,000 calls a month, kind of territory. - Wow. - Calls and texts. So that's contacts of all types. You know, and I mean, most people are touched by, you know, suicide. I have been professionally. I also have been personally. And, I mean, it's something that people just never really get over, is it? - No. - And yet, inherently, it's preventable. Look, I mean, so often when you look at it, if you could have got that person through that night or that week or sometimes that month, they'd still be here, and they'd be glad to be here. - So, the way that we break out of that is by doing what you're doing tonight, reaching out to us, reaching out to other support. There's a service that might be of help. They offer free counselling through workplaces, right? I can give you the phone number. You know, you're in a position of power right now. You're making decisions that are good for you. So keep working with that. Keep holding on to that strength. You're not alone. OK. Take care. Bye. - Skye. - Yeah. - That sounded really intense. - Yeah. We do a grading system so that we know how to support the person. So, like, on a scale of one to 10, how likely are you to follow through on your plan? - Are we talking about a plan for suicide? - Yeah. So, a plan to end his life. But I talked about, you know... I affirmed him for reaching out, cos this was his first call to any helpline, which is awesome. So he's made the right decisions. You just keep reminding him of what he's doing right. Cos, you know, they feel hopeless. They feel helpless and like nothing's going to get better. And then just trying to... find hope, things that are keeping him alive. And once we talked about that, he said that the tension broke. So he's not at that eight out of 10 any more, you know? There's that sort of release of those feelings. - How often would you get a call like that? - I mean, uh, fairly regularly. We get probably about one or two a shift,... (PHONE RINGS) ...reminding ourselves that that's a support service. On to another. Hi, this is Need to Talk. You're speaking with Skye. - What do we say to someone who is really struggling? - Just listening. Not trying to get into giving advice and fixing it. But also sometimes just really encour` If you're really worried about someone, encouraging them to reach out to get some help, be it GP or here or a counsellor, and also offering to go with them. Cos sometimes it takes someone going with you to get you through that door. - Oh wow. That's quite a tough thing, hey? - And that must be really stressful for him. - Thanks. You have a good night. - To me, it seems like a couple of lives may have been saved tonight. If these people didn't have this... number, these people, who knows where they'd be now? I'm so thankful for these guys and the work they're doing. (UPBEAT ROCK MUSIC) So, taking action is key. But is that message getting out to the workplace, places like our building sites, where 'Are you man enough?' has long been part of the culture and where men's mental health is a massive issue? It's actually taking more lives in the construction industry than on-site accidents. 'That's 339 over 10 years. 'But some good, keen men are working on it. Slade used to be a formidable Maori All Black, 'but today, he and Ritchie are leading an extraordinary event on-site.' - Too late, bro. The last one gets the front seats, bro. - I actually remember you being a bit of an enforcer. Where do you think that came from? - You know, in the man's world, you're not allowed to share your feelings. You gotta deal with this yourself. So if I had someone that hurt me, then I was gonna put that face on someone and hurt them. - Not easy to stop a front-row forward running with that sort of power. - So, what is Mates In Construction? - Mates In Construction is about bringing awareness of suicide in the construction sector. Because we all give the old, 'Oh, are you OK, bro?' and everyone goes, 'Yeah, yeah. Nah, I'm sweet as.' But that one time when someone says, 'Are you OK?' and then they go, 'Nah, I'm not,' we're just not` We don't have the tools to deal with it. You're like, 'Oh, OK. Well, we'll talk about that a bit later on.' So it's about being able to actually get that help straight away. This photo was taken in Rotorua, representing all the suicides that happened in 2015-2016. But we're focussed purely on the boots, the construction boots. - So, what are some of the life stresses, life events that cause us stress? Throw them out at me. - Money. - Money. Finances, eh? Yep. What else? - Kids. - Kids. - (CHUCKLES) - Family. - Ka pai, bro. What else? Throw some more stuff out. - Work. - Work. (GROANS) Now you're on to it, bro. Relationship breakdowns. That's a big one, man. Death of a family or, you know, close friend. An anniversary of a death of a family member or close friend. That's a big one. Last year, someone you know might have lost a close friend. So what can we do? Get on the phone. Give him a call. Text him. 'How are you going? Everything all good? You wanna catch up for a cup of coffee?' How easy is that? And believe me, guys, little things like that save lives, and that's what we're here for, to save lives. - Slade says that the construction workers who've died, one in four had attempted suicide before, but less than one in a dozen had asked for professional help. - And I'll tell you why. Usually we talk about... shame, the stigma. But majority for all the brothers out there, it's money. Money. Go see a doctor ` $50 to $80. He goes and refers you to a specialist ` $120, $200 just for an hour just to talk to him. Then you have to come and see your boss. 'Boss, can I have half a day off?' 'Yeah, nah. Take a cement pill. I'm going back to work.' - Mates In Construction offers practical help ` a free phone line, as well as volunteers on-site. A lot of talk about connectors. What's the role of a connector? Well, connectors are saving lives. I'm a connector. I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm no specialist. But I care. And as we say, 'We give a shit,' you know? And that's the reasons why, as a connector, we want people who do give a shit about the workers that they have and about making sure they get the best help that they need, wherever they're from and whatever background. - So what do we do? We tell somebody in the best way that we can that we're struggling, OK? 'What's happening, bro?' 'Oh, just, you know, a relationship break-up,' or, 'Financially, I'm struggling.' Or if you can see someone's struggling, you ask them the question. And honestly, guys, it only takes 10 seconds of courage to step into that space, that brother's space, and say, 'Bro, are you OK? I've noticed that lately you've been distracted, 'not yourself lately, bro. Can we have a chat about it? You wanna go and see somebody about it?' OK? It's important that we understand this, because remember, you're going back out there with your mates, and you're gonna watch each other's back, yeah? You're gonna watch each other's back? Yes, absolutely. That's what I want to hear, man. - While the guys head back to work with the new perspective, and I'm impressed with the Mates In Construction approach, I'm still wondering why workshops like these are even needed in the first place. What do you think it means to be a good Kiwi bloke? - Just hard, hard as rocks. - There's definitely a bit of staunchness to us. - Men don't cry. - Is the pressure to be a Kiwi man killing us, and can it be stopped? * (LIVELY MUSIC) - I've seen first-hand the scale of the problem, and it doesn't discriminate. Men of all shapes and sizes, abilities, ethnicities, orientations ` mental ill health is something that touches all areas of society. So, as New Zealanders, what are we telling men they should be? What do you think it means to be a good Kiwi bloke? - Ooh. - (CHUCKLES) - Hitting the gym. - (CHUCKLES) - Working all the time. - Strong. But the strength is in the kindness, I think. - Good values, good sense of self and knows how to nurture and care for people. - Men mostly hide their emotions. They don't wanna show it. - Pretty staunch and don't know how to show emotion. I think they've been brought up to say, you know, 'Men don't cry.' - A lot of guys just like to keep it all down and not speak out, I guess, yeah. - Clearly, the Kiwi man is a lot of things nowadays. But I wonder ` maybe some of them aren't doing us any favours when it comes to the top two inches. - Have you been through tough times? - Have had a couple tough times, but, oh, more likely to just try work it out yourself than to talk to people, I guess, yeah. I guess, just don't wanna feel... I don't know, weak. (CHUCKLES) - And do you think putting your hand up and saying you're not OK is a sign of weakness? - (CHUCKLES) Yeah, I'd say that is. Yeah. Yeah. - So, in the past, Andrew, I've actually put up my hand and said, 'I need some help here.' - Yeah, yeah. - And I didn't wanna do that, because I'm like you. - Yeah. - I was a stubborn man. - (CHUCKLES) Yeah. - But it didn't work for me. - Right. Well, if you can't get through it, and you are really, really struggling, I guess you should... speak up and speak out, ask for help. - And what sort of reception would you get from your mates if you said, 'Oh, I'm going through a tough time?' - Well, some mates would give you a hard time and tell you to harden up. That's just what any man would probably say, just 'harden up' or 'you should be tough enough to get through it'. - Andrew, does the southern man still exist? - I'd like to think I'm a southern man. - Do you? - Yeah, yeah. - And what does it mean to be a southern man? - Oh, just hard. Hard as rocks. Yeah. - (BOTH CHUCKLE) 'Growing up, I had a southern man poster on my bedroom wall. 'I looked up to him, literally, and admired his strong silence. But was he a good role model?' To find out, I'm going to the source of the source. - First tour is it, Rob? - It is my first tour. - I've asked Rob from men's health charity Movember to join me ` a bloke so masculine he has a full-time moustache. I'm after his take and an insight on Kiwi men and their role models. - How's Susan? - Marvellous. New tennis coach and a new Merc. Thanks, darling. Have one yourself. Well, chin-chin. - Is that a new hat? - Yeah, Susan chose it. I think it works, don't you? - (GASPS) - Jesus Christ. - I know. - (BOTH CHUCKLE) - So, what's the deal? You're not allowed to be flash. - Not allowed to be flash. You're not allowed to comment on appearance or` - Don't ask about the missus. - 100%. Yeah. - (EXCLAIMS) - Yeah. - That is terrible. - Another snapshot in time. (BOTH CHUCKLE) - So how does our idea of masculinity in New Zealand affect our mental health? - Our definition` or certainly in the past, our definition of masculinity stops us from doing a whole lot of positive behaviours that are gonna help our mental health ` regularly coming together with your mates; when you are with your mates, sharing some of the challenges, challenging things in your life; being prepared to ask your mate if he's OK; if he doesn't give a positive answer, being able to dig a little bit deeper. You know, understanding that... any sort of conversation is good. - To their credit, at least they've moved with the times. Their latest ad puts a more positive spin on manhood. - You could chuck in a dip? - Yep. - Yeah. - Great-ish. - Yeah, that move's particularly bizarre. - # You whisper goodbye then cling tighter to me. # I can't take no more. - # Oh, no. - (CHEERING) # Baby, it's you... # who makes me feel the way that you do. # You know I can't forget you so soon. # Baby, it's you. # - Don't look at me for tips on the dance floor. - (CHUCKLES) - But what's that? That's men helping men be better men, isn't it? - That's it, mate. I love this ad, actually. - Some people might say that we're getting rid of what it means to be a man. You buy that? - No, I don't. No, no, no, not at all. I think certain parts of what it is to be a man or what it's perceived to be a man in the past will remain. But the key for us, for anyone who's trying to drive the conversation, is to make sure it's the positive things that we hang on to. So bloody oath, I wanna go out and build a crooked fence in my backyard... - (LAUGHS) - ...because that's what I'll do. But, you know, we can also be someone who is a good friend, is a good father, you know, who has the ability to have balance in life and knows when they've taken too much on and be able to pull back. There's no reason why we can't do that stuff and still retain, you know, a feeling of being a strong Kiwi bloke. (AMBIENT MUSIC) - I never wanted to go and see the doctor about anything. I was a man. (SNIFFLES) I could deal with anything by myself. (SNIFFLES) My brother's accident, I dealt with it by myself. Alcoholism, I dealt with it by myself. (SOBS) (SNIFFLES) Where I come from, the world I lived in, that's how we dealt with stuff. We rolled our sleeves up,... and we dealt with it ourselves. (SNIFFLES) 'Maybe the bravest thing I've ever done is break that man rule that says you have to suck it up, 'but I reckon having a safe space to do that is key. 'So I'm back in town to meet a specialist in the subject, 'and he's chosen his own happy place to meet me.' - I feel like the only feeling a lot of men have is anger. - That's pretty legitimate. - Like, you know` - We're allowed to be angry. - We're allowed to be angry. That's the one, one emotion that guys are allowed to have, cos it fits with that vision of masculinity, which is that we're aggressive and competitive. - Yeah, but that can't be good for us, though, right? If that's the only emotion we're allowed to have. - Well, what do you do with all the others? - Well, you bottle them up until you explode, until you're angry. - (CHUCKLES) Well, yeah, that's right. I mean, masculinity is shown lots of different ways, right? It's shown in our dress. It's shown in our language, what we're interested in, how we do our work. You know, masculinity is something that's performed. And the thing I love about that idea and that notion of masculinity being that way is that we can change that performance. Men are good problem-solvers, and, you know, solutions, solutions, solutions. That's what we look for. We don't mind learning. We don't mind learning from other people who've gone through or experienced the same issues that we have. Men do mental health differently, and they need mental health support and services delivered differently. - What does it look like, Chris? - It's done in places that men go to. So, you know, if we wanna deliver male-friendly mental health support, it has to be in the workplace. It's gotta be in the sports centre. It's gotta be in the clubs. It's gotta be in places where men go. - Great. - The other thing is that it's shoulder-to-shoulder, right? So it would never be this. - It would be like this, you know? It would be shoulder-to-shoulder... - Yeah. - ...so we don't have to see each other's emotions. (UPBEAT MUSIC) - Do you think we're very touchy-feely? - Uh... (CHUCKLES) I don't know about that. I think we're quite conservative. - I'm gonna go out and hug random blokes. - How do you reckon I'll get on? - Uh... - You might wanna... - (BOTH CHUCKLE) - ...show a bit of caution with that and pick your guys carefully. Yeah, pick your guys carefully. - Show a bit of caution. Are you actually worried for my safety? - I'd` Seriously. Yep. If they don't know you, you could be in for a bit of a rough ride. Coming up ` will New Zealand men be man enough to hug? Gidday, mate. How are ya? Don't want a hug? - No, thank you. - Just a little soft one. - No. Can I have a hug? MasterFoods has had a makeover. (POP!) (MUSIC PLAYS) (DRUM ROLL, POP!) (MUSIC PLAYS) (POP!) What great flavour looks like - MasterFoods. * (FUNKY MUSIC) - So, we're down at the Wellington waterfront on a windy Sunday morning. I'm gonna try and get myself some man hugs. (CLAPS) Excuse me. Don't want a hug? - No, thank you. - Just a little soft one. - No. - Gidday, mate. How are ya? No. Not` Not talking. Excuse me, sir. My name's Matt. I'm doing a project on men's mental health. - Yeah, I don't need it. - You don't need it? - No. (CHUCKLES) - Can I give you a hug? - Eh? No. - Yeah. Can I give you a... a hug? - (CHUCKLES) Of course, man. - Yeah. Sweet. Come on in. - I'm a good hugger. - Are you a good hugger? - Yeah. Bloody oath. - Come on. Bring it in. Don't leave me hanging. I'm getting cold here. - Come here. Come here. - Yes. I like a rough hug. Fellas... (GRUNTS) That feels good. You smell nice. - Yeah. - Are any of you finding this slightly awkward or`? - No. - No. - Not at all. - Thank you. There we go. That's good. How come you're not touching me?! - (CHUCKLES) - Come on! - You hug each other? - Yeah, all the time. Yeah. - Yeah. Where we come from. - Yeah, that's lovely. That's good stuff. - There we go. - We are from South America, and there, you know, a hug is like must. It's a kiss and a hug. - So a hug is a must between men? - Yeah. - You don't hug your mates in Russia? - No. - RUSSIAN ACCENT: No. (GUFFAWS) We could learn something from you guys. Can I give you a hug? No hug? - You can give me one. - Oh, I can give you one. Yes! - Hope everything's all good, my man. - Come on, bro. - They're recording it. (CHUCKLES) - Good man. - Actually got a couple of mates going through some shit at the moment. - Is that right? - Yeah. - I don't do that with guys. - You don't do that with guys? - Nah. - How come? - I don't know. (CHUCKLES) You're a guy. I'm a guy. (GUFFAWS) - You look out for your mates? - Always. Always. - So, we came in with this idea that Kiwi men weren't that big on physical intimacy, right? Amongst each other. But I feel like we've had about a 95% hit rate. It's encouraging, I think. Bye-bye. 'We're better at this hugging thing than I thought.' Probably needed to ask for some sooner. When I put it out there,... that I wasn't doing very well,... all of a sudden,... every second workmate... and every third person I'd met... got in touch and said, 'Mate, I've been on the pills for 15 years.' 'I've been seeing a counsellor for 12.' So all these people... had been suffering in silence. I was like, 'Mate,... 'we have a coffee every other day. We work together once a month. And now you're telling me? 'Why weren't we talking about this? Why weren't we sharing? Why weren't we discussing?' So many other people have these internal struggles. (INTRIGUING ORCHESTRAL MUSIC) Yeah, I used to want to be a southern man. I also wanted to be an All Black, because there's another icon for being a tough Kiwi bloke. One of our most capped All Blacks is still throwing himself head first into younger players, but in a much more thoughtful way. He has always been a big hero of mine. Keven, really nice to meet you. I'm not gonna lie. I'm a little bit star-struck. - (CHUCKLES) - What are you doing back here today? - Today we got a chance to do a little presenting around HeadFirst, and HeadFirst is just talking about your mental well-being and getting our young rugby players to speak up if they're going through ups and downs, you know? Especially the downs. - If it's not for you, maybe for someone else. - What does strength look like to you? What does it mean to be a strong Kiwi? - When I think of strength, I think of a pillar ` someone that other people can lean on when they need something or they're going through something. So, like, my dad or my brother is someone that I've always been able to, like, when I'm down in the pits, I need this` I need this person to talk to. - So, what's got you down in the pits? - Sometimes I think people think that you have to be mentally ill to go through ups and downs, but it's really normal to have good days, bad days. Could be anything. Could be COVID. Sometimes it's a simple thing as, like, uh,... - got no petrol in the car. How am I gonna get to the petrol station? - (BOTH CHUCKLE) - That can be a trigger, right? - Lost my keys, you know? So... - Yeah. - So what do you do in those moments now with the tools you've got? - For me, sometimes I have to remind myself, 'Am I in control of this?' If I am, then I can do something about it. If I'm not, then... I shouldn't stress about it, because I can't control that. One of the things I always would carry with me, or the baggage I'd carry with me for a long time, would be people's expectations. And so even simple things like going down to the dairy ` the dairy owner would be saying to me, 'Kev, you just had to throw the ball in straight.' You know? - (LAUGHTER) - You got one job. Throw the ball in straight. He's saying it out of humour, and it's a joke. I'd walk out of the thing, and it'd still be playing through my head all the way through when I get to training as well. - 'HeadFirst runs workshops around the country, giving rugby players a few tips for their mental game.' - Really important when we talk about well-being that everything's connected, you know? So, how our physical body is, our tinana... - Te Whare Tapa Wha ` what is that all about? - Te Whare Tapa Wha is a Maori mental health model, and it talks about well-being as a whare, as a house. The whare has four walls. If we can strengthen each of those four walls ` so, spiritual, physical, mental and social ` when those are strong, we're in balance. Not always the case. Walls do get wobbly, but if the strength of the other two or three is there, we can kind of, keep ourselves in the direction, in balance. - 'It's a team game, so HeadFirst also have tips on how to look out for your teammates.' - We talk about being specific. So instead of just saying, 'Hey, Kev, you all good? You all right?' It's actually deeper than that. So, 'Hey, Kev, are you all right? I've noticed that you always get your coffee in the morning, 'and I've noticed that you haven't been doing that lately.' Kevy knows automatically that I'm asking and it's genuine, because I've noticed something's maybe not quite right. - I think we've got an opportunity, but I actually we've got an obligation, right, to do this, because we can. When you bring people like Keven Mealamu along, you know, and they're like, 'OK, all right. If it's good enough for him, then it's good enough for me,' right? - 'This is all very different to my experience of rugby. 'No beer jugs on the table for a start. But hey, I'll share.' And so, a couple of years ago, I got quite depressed and burnt out and had to deal with a bit of grief. I got some medication, but my wife enrolled me in a six-week mindfulness course. So it's about slowing down and appreciating little moments like the shower in the morning. Got 10 minutes. Five minutes if there's a water shortage, ha! (LAUGHTER) And I just go, 'Don't have to worry about anything. This is me right now looking after myself.' And that's what I think mindfulness is. Yeah. Thanks for listening. Hope you enjoyed the sharing. - For me, when I'm not doing mindfulness, the head's really busy. You're so busy thinking about, 'What's the lineout call? What am I supposed to do with the next ruck?' And when we're talking about mindfulness, it's just stop thinking about everything all at once, cos your mind can't do that. - Spot on, Kev. What Kev's done is he's explained what I took 800 words to explain. (LAUGHTER) He's explained it in about eight seconds. (LAUGHTER) How good was that? I came in today thinking, you know, rugby players ` tough nut to crack. But everything that they were hearing have been the things that we've been told needs to happen. And I'm quite buoyed, because the young guys were lapping all of that up. They were writing things down in their diaries and taking it home for another day. Which is all positives. But around Papatoetoe, over half these lads are Pacific or Maori, and they are Kiwi men who are really at risk. - The elevated rates in terms of Maori mental illness and Maori rates... of suicide... have nothing to do with Maori being predisposed to mental illness. And, in fact, the historical data suggests that Maori were incredibly mentally robust. What it has to do with are these significant environmental and societal factors which disproportionately impact the Maori population and Maori men. According to Professor Mason Durie ` and this was a comment he said a few years ago ` he said mental ill health is the single most significant concern facing Maori today. I think there's real potential there for longer-term change... and a more positive outcome. - Coming up ` I learn to leave my inhibitions at the stage door. We're supposed to try and do it sort of rhythmically and sexily. - No. But I see you're having a ball with that. - (LAUGHS) * (EXPECTANT ORCHESTRAL MUSIC) - Showing a softer side can be a hard thing to get your head around. It took me a while. I've heard of a workshop that helps guys let down their defences and embrace their vulnerability ` in every sense of the word. (DISCO MUSIC) So I'm just heading to meet Mr B Frank, a burlesque dancer who reckons he's gonna teach me a thing or two. What is it about the stage that gives you so much joy? The stage is at once the most vulnerable place you can ever be,... and yet, when you're on that stage and owning that stage,... it is the most powerful... you will ever feel. - Simon first entered the world of dance when his mum dragged him to ballroom classes as a teenager to help his depression. - I sometimes refer to depression as, like, my old mate, you know? Depression walks alongside me all the time. It doesn't go anywhere. We find various tools to deal with it and to find value in living and to find joy in living and to find self-worth. - Simon reckons all of those things can be found onstage, so I'm about to step out of my comfort zone, along with some other ordinary and slightly on-edge Kiwi blokes. - Today my name's Mr B Frank. My mum calls me Simon. - My name is Mike. - Matt Chisholm. - Mike Williamson. - I'm a builder. - I've been a journalist for 12, 13 years. - General manager at New Zealand Seal Services. - Currently a firefighter. - I don't know a lot about burlesque either. But what I really wanna know is ` when do we get nude? (LAUGHTER) - Soon as you like, buddy. (LAUGHS) - Is that right? - No. It's an art of tease. It's all about a tease, right? - Our warm-up is to think of an everyday activity and act it out ` like my favourite shower. (SENSUAL MUSIC) We're supposed to try and do it sort of rhythmically and sexily. - (CHUCKLES) No. But I see you're having a ball with that. - (LAUGHS) - You are... challenging what it means to be a man up there. - Sure as shit I am, mate. Yeah. I don't prescribe to what you or you or you thinks a man is. I don't subscribe to the idea that the only value a man has is his level of aggression and his prowess on the sports field and how bloody muscly he is or how hard he works, and how much of a tough bugger he is. Challenging that status quo, being something very different to that, being proud of that, doing something like I do and saying, 'No, you know what? That doesn't make me less of a man. 'That makes me entirely more of a man.' I don't get a lot of men to my shows, unfortunately. (CHUCKLES) It's a largely female audience. However, if... one young man can see what I do... and take something from that, then that's been a win. You have a voice. You have value. You have worth. And only by celebrating all of those things can you truly become... who you are and become a great man. - And once you get there, how good is life? - Oh, it's` Once you get there, you turn around and help the next guy. And then life is really, really cool. Really... reach up on tiptoes. Really milk this, OK? For you guys, exactly the same thing. Are you banging in a nail? - FORCEFULLY: Or are you banging... in... a nail?! - (FOOT STOMPS) - I'm clean! - He's clean! (CHUCKLES) - I'm clean! - (GRUNTS) - Really get that... - (CHUCKLES) - ...grime off there! - That is so filthy! - I'm barbaric! - (CHUCKLES) - 'Might be getting a bit carried away here, but to be honest, 'it wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be to get into it.' Down the torso. Make sure you give these bottom bits a real good going over. Not too long, though, cos it turns into something else. And then over. - Tear the top off. - (GULPS) - (LAUGHTER) (CHUCKLES, CLAPS) Ta-da. Take a bow, guys. Take a bow to the audience. (APPLAUSE) - Beautiful. - So, I feel like we couldn't get any more masculine men. We've got two builders and a fireman, right? - Yeah. - And I'm all feeling like you guys enjoyed this. - You could've done anything today. We could have taken our clothes off. - It's only lunchtime, Glen. - (LAUGHTER) - Doing what we did today, it's because all four of us were doing it. If there was one person trying to do it and three were not participating, it would be so hard for that one person. - So if we can extrapolate that out to sharing our feelings, because once we're all doing that, it's a lot easier, isn't it? - Mm. - If instead of the one bloke who's going, 'I've had a tough day. I had a tough couple of months,' and everyone going, 'Oh, that's a bit weird. He's talking about his feelings.' 'Harden up, ya prick. Get back to work, pull your socks up and rip into it.' - But if we're all talking and sharing, it's just normal, isn't it? - Mm. Can we still celebrate... masculinity while rewriting what it means to be a man? - We have to rewrite what it means to be a man, Matt. SOFTLY: We have to. - Why is that? - (INHALES SHARPLY) (SIGHS) We're` I'm gonna cry. (SNIFFLES) - (CHUCKLES) That's allowed. - (CLEARS THROAT) We're losing too many. Uh... (SIGHS) Those expectations that we talked about,... they're up here, and they` and they don't suit everybody. I'm never gonna be that guy. I'm this guy, and I'm very, very proud of this guy. We need to rewrite what it means to be a man so that young men... have... a multitude of... pathways that are... exciting and... and are open to them. We need to rewrite it. (BIRDS CHIRP) - If I've learned anything so far, it's that it's normal to have tough times. Whether it's you or your mates, we all have the power to deal with this. There are options and people who can help, and you don't have to do it alone. And if part of the answer is to start rewriting the rulebook of manhood, then I want to find out how we do that. Next time ` I'm not a gym guy, and I'm definitely not hardcore. (WHACKING) I've got those endorphins kicking around right now. - Yeah. That's what's up. - You're gonna take full control. - Wah, Sue. Wah, wah. - (BARKS) (LAUGHTER) - He had no idea what he brought to the world, and I think everyone just needs to believe. - I felt like I'd failed. I really felt like I'd failed. - Yeah. That's the first time I've ever allowed anyone to come in for the sake of what the boys are sharing.